At the end of the fight Delaying Vendetta/Vanish has no real cost so that is where I would look first
#assassination
fleet anchor
crimson palm
only fight u delay exsang is ilgynoth atm
arctic walrus
@scarlet sequoia Have you looked into what stats are bis in terms of what items to corrupt
Haste, crit, and mast all seem so close not sure if it’s as cut out and dry like say outlaw
rancid bobcat
do i grind out more echos to buy a rank 1 expedient 
lean marten
Haste over crit, or Haste over mast pieces
scarlet sequoia
i mean im really just going based off my gear and stats
and it seems like u just want like 30-32% crit
then all out haste till ~75% (u get most of it with expedients) and then mastery is best
scarlet sequoia
why?
arctic walrus
Scales with ilvl no?
scarlet sequoia
nah
arctic walrus
Was that just stars tendies and gw then
scarlet sequoia
yy
arctic walrus
Ah
last gyro
sharp swallow
as someone who is fairly new to rogue I see people with either full crit, or full haste, why is that?
sharp swallow
why crit for m+?
heady aspen
Crit scales with Echoing Blades and haste loses value in aoe
cinder moat
Can you explain me how i open with Blood of the Enemy and Shrouded Suffocation, Garrote -> Rupture -> Garrote -> Vendettta -> Toxic BLade -> Blood of the Enemy? I overcap really hard on energy after the 2nd garrote. Should i rather to Garrote -> Rupture -> Garrote -> Multilate -> Envenom/Rupture -> Vendetta -> Toxic Blade - Blood of the Enemy?
I dont really know how the dmg multiplication etc. works
primal turret
I think that you have to use tb after bote and allways before a 5 CP envenenom
Your goal is casting envenenom during the tb Window thats why you want CS
frigid briar
what kind numbers are people simming for M+ 40 seconds 4 targets in severe and strike through with SS and EB traits?
pref asking people with 470+ itmlvl
willow pulsar
I'll tell you next week, when i will finish my setup
frigid briar
if crimson tempest becomes ST talent pick with full haste build that must give haste a bigger value in M+ now
and haste is good for crimson tempest on AoE aswell
Assass sims for m+ are so scuffed to compared to real time dungeon events though. Its the best we have dont get me wrong but yeah
basically I have zero severe and I'd like to see someones gear whos optimised their set up for m+ assass with severe+ strikethrough.
rancid bobcat
not necessarily because crit/mastery still increase crimson tempest's damage as well
frigid briar
yeah true, thats why i was looking for someone whos optimised for severe build to see the numbers difference in sims
wet ruin
don't sim with lust though
shell atlas
anyone here has a tb dd build with expedient stack?
frigid briar
im sure anyone who runs DD runs with full TA corruption now. people stacking exp rank 3s have gone SS. DD+TA is RNG build, SS+EXP is more skill/knowledge/boss knowledge build ( less proc reliant)
frigid briar
I mean you can run any build, I wouldnt class it as optimal but you could run most builds you want
wet ruin
they are not that far apart
shell atlas
because i simed the tb dd build with exp stack
and it was only -260dps behind
and completly removes rng
but dont know how acurate that is
and im afraid to make the investiment 😛
frigid briar
the big thing now is - Theres a massive variance in gear set up from top end players to lower end players, players with less time to farm, or players who play more casually
its hard to answer for any player without simming
so if your sim says you can reduce RNG for minimal dps loss ten you can play it if your more comfortable with it
the game RN is bonkers
royal lantern
*broken
frigid briar
also expedient is never gonna be a bad investment
Id say broken if I played a good class 😉 I just watch other people do broken dps
shell atlas
you know if gushing wound nerf is alredy applyed on raidbots?
frigid briar
yeah, was added week before it came on nightly build but "should" be on weekly build
if you make sure its set to nightly it will be applied 100%
shell atlas
thanks
ornate gazelle
Is there a haste/crit list of gear for every slot somewhere so I don't have to go through the dungeon journal one by one?
frigid briar
is the haste crit gear for raids?
I could be wrong but haste mastery all slots minus mecha ring and one other keeps you at 34% crit 70% haste and 60% mastery base
which I believe is the better option
then enchant and gem for crit if your below 34%
dusky moon
that's decent enough
every stat matters
more haste -> DoTs happens more frequently -> more energy regent to stab things
more crit -> stabing harder
more mastery -> bleeds and poisons do more damage
frigid briar
is the option believing?
tropic ocean
the option is simming
if I switch between expedient with 3 ss 3 eb on 6 target aoe with ct its a huge dps loss over
3ss 3eb ct crit crit dmg stack
however that will be different when not using echoing blades traits
frigid briar
Ausrr how much severe you have and strike though?
wanna sim your m+ gear? 40 secs 4 targets no hero?
also simming is pretty BS right now unless your near perfect gear
pretty sure it will tell you to corrupt the best piece you have with next corruption but due to how fluent the stat increases and decreases in value compared to others, its kinda meh
a BiS list to work towards would be better than telling people to sim, since they will plant good corruption on bad pieces
even pin raz gear sim as its pretty much peak performance at this point
tropic ocean
i dont have the corruptions yet gonna buy them next time when vendor up
yeah but raz gear is peak performance for raid
dusky moon
my sim will be ready in 2 min... much severe
frigid briar
hypers in chat
Id do it myself but I have no severe, so never optimized piece by peice to see gears best to stack ect. appreciate it
tropic ocean
severe/strikethrough
haste stack
difference will get bigger on aoe with more sockets and more optimized gear (I jused put it on raid gear) so not optimized for versa/crit in m+
replacing all the haste gear with crit/vers or crit/mastery for severe/str stack will probably break 300k easily
odd heath
I'm also simming here, got a mix of expedients, severe and striketrough on what I normally run with
frigid briar
thje one thing im thinking
topaz crow
hey guys , outlaw rogue here, my guild wants to start playing assasination , ive been gathering some gear for the switch. Ive been reading alot up on it but it seems theres alot of conflicting info, or atleast the way im seeing it
frigid briar
thats trash
with exp build I usually finish M+ bosses with 150-200k dps
+17s, not tried higher
topaz crow
should i be stacking double dose or shrouded suffocation? and expediant or twisted appendage?
frigid briar
not tested to much, thats why im loooking at it
topaz crow
or if they are both good whats the benfits of each?
frigid briar
if you link your sim, people might be able to tell you if you have the gear for DD or SS
DD is a boss build, SS is also a boss build which cleaves, DD relies on tenticle procs for damage (bigger damage I mean)
SS exsanguinate only works at higher gear levels
with alot of exp gear
odd heath
frigid briar
personally I feel EXP build is better but requires really optimal gear and corruption farming to make it better than DD for ST
is that with hero psycho?
topaz crow
awesome thats alot of what i was looking for
odd heath
is that with hero psycho?
@frigid briar yes
topaz crow
is 1 rotation going to be easier then the other?
frigid briar
sim without hero 4 targets 40 seconds plz
I wanna compare to my full exp
this one
tropic ocean
well obv exp will be strong with hero
but even with hero crit/crit dmg without totally optimizing the gear cuz lazy is 7k~ ahead for me
frigid briar
DD build is easier - Exansguinate build is more fun for me personally, requires a little more class knowledge but easy to pick up
odd heath
frigid briar
see that 20k on AOE when your gonna gain much more on ST must even the builds out? no?
topaz crow
im very confident in my abilitys,but being new to the spec maybe DD build is more straight forward to start with ?
frigid briar
how much exp ranks do you have?
tropic ocean
not so sure
frigid briar
unless you have like 12 id stick to DD for now and get high azerite itmlvls
odd heath
im very confident in my abilitys,but being new to the spec maybe DD build is more straight forward to start with ?
@topaz crow DD build is easier to fix mistakes than SS exs IMO
topaz crow
i have none atm , but enough echos to buy 3 rank 1s that was up
frigid briar
then swap over when you get alot more exp, I wouldnt buy tenticles btw, just get 2 carapace daggers then buy exp from vendor and swap when you sim more with exp build
frigid briar
that feeling of overwriting a empowered SS
tropic ocean
st expedient vs crit stack in 3min
topaz crow
thanks for the info guys , looking forward to learning something new, im sure ill be back for more guidance
tropic ocean
well then you lose even more on aoe
odd heath
you lose too much st running triple EB
frigid briar
you dont though cos crimson hasted does more damage
im not sayin exp is the way for m+ but I believe theres some sort of there
odd heath
I believe it is a mix between severes and expds
frigid briar
yeah i think theres probably some sort of mix
with gorak tuls
which btw, killed M nzoth like 14 times and still dont have them
good game
system is on point
odd heath
lol. I got mine 2 weeks ago after like, 11 tries on shoulder
frigid briar
stuill no raden weapon from normal, hc or mythic
stoic linden
Hi i have a questin. What dots should i refresh when? (Aoe and single)
frigid briar
we have had 2 drop in raid with like 15 raden kills
all dots should be refreash when they have 33% of the base duration remaining
unless empowered by subterfuge or nightsalker
below
garrotte 5
rupture 7
crimson tempest 8
thats pretty close but mabey not 100%
I got Wa for that shit, i go off green, red and white, not numbers
jovial haven
i think sim does CT at 2/3 sec
stoic linden
Also in aoe when i have 3x shrouded suffocation?
some on on stream said with the traids i should not refresh if
frigid briar
in AoE I garrote 3 targets and then burst on 1, then I just reapply garrote when they fall off
yeah never refresh a empowered garotte
it will overwrite the damage for last 6 seconds
stoic linden
ok ty a lot
mint oar
should i buy severe 3?
summer cedar
I bought 2 cause its good for assassination and outlaw
jovial vault
So with CT how does our opener look running exsang build?
magic thorn
What Trinket would you guys replace the coral with? Im sick with playing it.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hqLU9h1H25MKoPicioKR85
mossy valve
Do you guys think for m+ we want a few severes and haste if we don’t run echoing blades
magic thorn
Maybe Spyglass or vita, drest ?
tropic ocean
jovial vault
@tropic ocean but wouldnt you also want the CT in exsang?
tropic ocean
you equip what gives you the most dps, and therefor you sim your options
magic thorn
oh sorry ausrr
tropic ocean
@jovial vault idk probably @fleet anchor can answer that better for you
i just replace envenom with it when dot is not up
and other than that keep dot up
mossy valve
Is severe still good for st?
fleet anchor
Basically yes
Not worth going out of your way to set up CT within Exsang
If it happens to be in the Exsang that's fine
I tried a specific setup line and it was not a gain
jovial vault
Ok so just replace the first envenom with CT then.
tropic ocean
@mossy valve its not bad, but haste is better
jovial vault
I assumed you would of wanted it in exsang but your losing a lot of the empowered garrote setting it up
mossy valve
I’m just trying to figure out what build would be pretty good for keys, and pretty good for raiding
Like if I could do 100k overall in a 20, I’d be happy
fleet anchor
Basically yes you just replace Envenoms with it when it's refreshable
jovial vault
Kk thanks for the info
wet ruin
@fleet anchor is the apl always trying to do 6cp rupture before exsang
cobalt pelican
1 more key level till i catch up with bm hunters in yunkjard
smh
85% base haste life
night matrix
guys, what should I be stacking overwhelming power or unstable flames/elemental whirl for raid/m+?
fleet anchor
Yes Annsie
magic thorn
So i simmed my Trinkets now and i dont trust the sim at all
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mHbfXcPsmMzJ1hgucMADCX
What Trinket would you guys suggest for M+ instead of Coral then.
wet ruin
no matter the pandemic?
cobalt pelican
what do you even mean you don't trust the sim at all
loud light
what exactly were you expecting from a 40 second sim
of course the on-use buff trinkets sim well
cobalt pelican
you.. can sim other fight styles besides 6t40s with lust?
night matrix
@wet ruin, I'm new to assass, what exactly is pandemic? 😄
sour wraith
Think it might be worth to run IB in m+ with exsang, since it boosts IB ticks too?
cobalt pelican
probably not
iron wire is too good
and internal bleeding lasts very little time, it's almost guaranteed the opener exsang can't get it and forcing it on other exsangs sounds awkward
what do you want do know roguethree? you're just saying statements that are meaningless
wet ruin
up to 30% of the duration of the bleed you are applying will be added to the duration of the new bleed @night matrix
magic thorn
I want suggestions for trinkets, or what i could sim for dungeons so the on use trinkets dont get much value.
wet ruin
so if you are doing a 6cp rupture, up to 8.4 seconds will be added
cobalt pelican
if you want to know what is better on sustained aoe, lengthen the sim and remove lust? if you want to know what's better on short packs, use the information given to you? if you want to know what's better overall either compile several of those types of sims + some singletarget sims or just trust dslice to do the work for you
vestal dune
I just got blood of the enemy, how do you open on m+ thrash packs with it?
garrote x 3 + rupture + blood of the enemy + FoK + crimson?
cobalt pelican
m+ openers are in the pins
vestal dune
Oh, sorry
cobalt pelican
it's ok, it's just easier to refer people there than copy and paste
heavy forum
can anyone link me opener for assa with Toxic Blade talent?
idle nova
heavy forum
ty
tropic ocean
@cobalt pelican but playing haste is not worth ???
vast forum
i managed 162k in a +22 jy last week 😄
cobalt pelican
fort is cheating ok
vast forum
tru
shy dust
Was that with your raid set?
cobalt pelican
ya
i always play so bad when i play assassination in m+ now idk all my cd timings are off kinda
vast forum
eh, assa m+ is about communicating with your tank mostly 😄
wet ruin
is haste really 'that bad'
vast forum
haste is not bad
shy dust
Communicating with your tank?
wet ruin
seems like its doing just fine
shy dust
You mean just being able to restealth lmao
vast forum
no
wet ruin
where you lack aoe you pick up on boss damage
vast forum
knowing when to use CDs and when you're gonna be doing bosses is important
cobalt pelican
it would prolly help if i ever
opened routes before playing
but i just click on them drag the map around in a circle
and then c lose it again
vast forum
sometimes i tell my tank to do an additional trash pull before going boss cuz vendetta on CD
wet ruin
are you swapping lucid?
cobalt pelican
i played bote formless iris breath but idk
my formless uptime was prolly like
20%
i forgot warrior was playing conflict
wet ruin
I would've guessed something like vop cns breath
cobalt pelican
meh
wet ruin
or iris for cns
cobalt pelican
i don't think anything i did is optimal really kinda just clowning
conflict sounds pretty meh though
vop is like, maybe? i'd need to more comfortable with timings
lime edge
any other super important dungeon aside from mechagon for rings
tacit mica
yo in pins EB stands for?
lime edge
echoing blades
tacit mica
aaah]
lime edge
i have all the good trinkets i believe
tacit mica
got ya
prisma perch
is one ss trait enough for subterf.
vast forum
0 is enough
prisma perch
i wanna do masks but idk rly m best gear for it
young portal
research tree/cloak level plays a bigger part in Visions than your gear
primal turret
Knowing the potions and buffs is important too if you dont have enought lvl in you cloack
radiant quail
how does the mecha ring 'use 3 abilities' fair against the 'stand behind'?
drifting cloud
slightly worse
vast forum
both are good, the behind one is slightly better
radiant quail
im still gonna go for the stand behind as i need to farm echoes anyways i was just wonder
thanks
raven mica
Wasn’t it like quite a bit of a difference?
Because it’s hard to activate recursion without refreshing a dot?
strong jacinth
hello everyone, im at 45% crit with a mix of severes + 1 x 12% twilight...i only play mythic dungeons...shall i remove twilight and stack more severe?
jade lantern
Is DD still a good build or should i go SS?
radiant quail
@raven mica thats true, the 3rd ability would hve to be some sort of bleed
long portal
Other random things can proc it, from what I heard
Kick/evasion, etc
I've never tested it personally, though
radiant quail
yeah i dont see it being a massive problem. but definitely can see why the other ring is better 😛
long portal
For sure. I finally got around to putting a socket in my 465s, so I cant wait to get a 475 on Tuesday:D
radiant quail
lool me and my mate both needed the opposite ring and we done a workshop nad i got it drop with a socket for him...
good 10 junkyards later neither of us seen it drop once 😦
long portal
I got kind of "lucky" I guess. Took me around 30 runs to get both, and at the start of this tier lots of people were spamming keys so it was pretty fast. Just had a 4man pre-made in lfg looking for mecha keys
Don't forget 14s also drop 465 👌
radiant quail
yup been doing 14-18's
still got enough time and echoes to farm
i like to think ill get it by the time exp 3 comes back around
strong jacinth
hello everyone, im at 45% crit with a mix of severes + 1 x 12% twilight...i only play mythic dungeons...shall i remove twilight and stack more severe? or keep twilight 12% and get additional severes?
radiant quail
i believe the best atm is 3x severs and 3x strikethrough
long portal
Something like that yeah. Just depends on your base crit, but I would suspect somewhere around 50% crit that crit damage will overtake
strong jacinth
tyvm
gray flower
what piece sshould i be putting expedient III on when it rotates back?
475s with haste and either mastery or crit?
radiant quail
perfect
gray flower
dope
frigid briar
Haste mastery all slots and mecha rings
One or 2 off pieces with haste crit
Should be 34% crit roughly
If not sims will tell you gem sem slots cirt
unreal kayak
Infexious how much mastery do you have
warm plover
limpid quest
question rand 4 breat of dying is a wieght of 10 would that be the best major slot? using focus or blood of enemy but wieghts are not that high in slot any advice?
rank 4 breath of dying.... typo
cobalt pelican
idk what weight of 10 means
limpid quest
add on helps but not sure if reliable
cobalt pelican
no addon can accurately do anything for your character
cobalt pelican
breath is a competitive but mostly unplayed major
limpid quest
sweet ty
minor thicket
hey guys - question. I know racials arent what they used to be but why do most choose bElf
scarlet sequoia
cus theyre hot
minor thicket
because of beserking?
cobalt pelican
it really is just cause people dont wanna look like garbage
- belf is kinda like
'''okay''' at all content
dispel is nice in m+.. sometimes.. and it's pretty meh in pvp but i meh it's better than berserking probably
minor thicket
gotcha
west cove
troll fem is not garbage 
smoky pecan
are both raden trinkets together BIS for single target?
scarlet sequoia
n
minor thicket
Ya im currently Vulpera and get nothing out of it
scarlet sequoia
fking furry
long portal
Looking good is worth at least 800 dps
minor thicket
oh wow
calm tartan
Can I stack Expedient I?
minor thicket
i hated troll
gray flower
anyone have a link to a BiS assassination sim?
verbal sparrow
Wait if I buy stars, they do scale with ilvl or I can just yeet them on anything I have on me ?
crystal blaze
scale with ilvl
prime void
Why buy stars
verbal sparrow
or more likely, how much dps Exp 3 gives you ? because I tried to sim them and if I would purify 2x R2 apphendages, and just bought R3 stars, I would get 7k dps more
but they're expensive af
crystal blaze
IS is "strong" only on 2-3 bosses
verbal sparrow
wrath, raden maut right ?
crystal blaze
just buy expedient
verbal sparrow
or xanesh
silver musk
just wrath and shad imo
verbal sparrow
like... yea I just got that idea it could be strong af
I have just 21k so I don't have any echoes free to spend if Exp 3 comes back in rotation
silver musk
andkill timers are getting less and less so you won't stack much, you can't get much benefit from IS
silver musk
10 times
vestal dune
On the exsan opener, why would the sim add that mutilate in between the vanish garrotes?
Is 1 sec of garrote worth the lost cp?
silver musk
and 1 r3 is = rank11 exp
verbal sparrow
@vestal dune I was wondering that too why on second vanish rotation you shouldn't do G envenom G and then continue instead of G mutilate G
cobalt pelican
a 3cp envenom does not hit very hard
vestal dune
Harder than a mutilate
cobalt pelican
it also.. costs combo points??
it's not like you can directly convert the overflow into an envenom
unless your plan is to garrote [wait a gcd] garrote
vestal dune
But G env G should be more damage than G mut G
cobalt pelican
but it costs 3 combo points
vestal dune
The 2nd one wastes the cps of the mut
cobalt pelican
there's no point narrowing down on j ust the 3 subterfuge gcds like that like
it'll be garrote 3cp env garrote (mutilate because you're only at 3)
or garrote mutilate garrote envenom at 6
vestal dune
I guess the G mut G ends in a slight more uptime of elaborate planing
wet ruin
I believe it only does that in the opener since the timings happen to be that your garrote ends on 0 cp so it tries to refresh it instantly with vanish
vestal dune
No it does it on the 2nd vanish too
I am actually wondering if just waiting between the garrotes might even be better there
wet ruin
its not, since you are energy capped
cobalt pelican
depends on your gear, but at high gear you're close to gcd locked
wet ruin
most likely
vestal dune
with my gear shouldn't be the case tho
cobalt pelican
the mutilate is purely there to spend the gcd on something
vestal dune
it is throwing that mut at 44% energy
wet ruin
it accounts the energy regen
wet ruin
vendetta energy hardly matters at this point
vestal dune
I have the nothing personal tho
and I guess the exsan comes afterwards
so it needs to dump all energy
wet ruin
nothing personals energy is quite neglectable
near coyote
Shadowlands will be nice. Things are too much atm.
wet ruin
I mean, if you are playing exsang SS it probably means energy won't be a problem and you will be gcd locked for most of the fight
cobalt pelican
i will say that at low gear levels waiting the gcd (post lust vanishes) might be worth it but it's just so negligible
the apl just tries to fill the gcd with the best spell it can
which is either mutilate if you start at 0
or an appropriate finisher if it's time
wet ruin
opener with blood when you don't crit at the start feels very bad
and I know koji tested it with guardian, but did he test it with blood?
cobalt pelican
probably, but i don't know
wet ruin
I don't know if its the lack of bbi cuz I am playing with ilgy shoulders, but I am getting the g-r-g-m-ct-m-m-m-r-exsang way too often
and it feels weird to blood that late
cobalt pelican
i don't really ever throw the ct tbh but i never checked what the losses were
if you bote that late does it even cover the exsanged garrote
like it should expire before bote surely right
cobalt pelican
gross
wet ruin
thats why it feels weird
but the apl tries to force 6cp rupture
doing the ct on 5 with guardian doesn't really seem bad, since you don't really lose anything
if anything you can get a better chance for vita or haste proc for exsang
but with blood you are losing on an empowered exsanguinated garrote ticks during blood
warm sparrow
Have we settled any debates on Severe vs Expedient?
prime void
What is there to even debate
arctic walrus
u stink
prime void
You aren’t wrong 😦 stupid weather
arctic walrus
true man car a/c is broken, can't imagine nv tho
prime void
Oof no a/c is rough
cobalt pelican
yep plug your ears and go lalalala
sullen cloak
what pre pot is best for sin?
vital haven
olive hornet
so i kinda read the guide (back from a break of playing rogue since legion, been playing other classes)... says we usually go between lovely azerite elemental and fucking pvp grindy major azerite
i'm guessing if I'm using either one I'm using the other as minor alongside lucid and focusing iris?
serene siren
How good is assisnation compared to outlaw in mythic+
gray crest
its pretty good with echoing blades
serene siren
Are they compareable will they not invite me cause im not outlaw?
mossy valve
If you have gear io and do damage people will invite you to whatever
long portal
I'm 12/12m like 2400io(I dont rrally like keys) and I get declined from 15s all the time :)
Too many people take mdi too seriously 😒
olive hornet
mdi?
supple pelican
mythic dungeon invitational
long portal
Directed at Luna asking if people will decline for not being outlaw. People decline for not being a hunter these days xD
serene siren
Damn I thought outlaw was higher than BM
mossy valve
Bm is brain dead so taking them is pretty safe, but @long portal if you ever need a key lmk cause that’s so dumb. The issue is more that people are kinda stupid but I’ve played with more assa rogues that do 110k overall than outlaw
fleet whale
well not only is bm easy to play it's kind of broken right now due to azerite
mossy valve
Oh for sure
And their raid build is the same as their dungeon build for the most part other than a trait swap so that makes them safe too
long portal
Rapid reload op
mossy valve
@long portal how much overall do you do in your raid gear? I’ve been trying to figure out the difference from swapping to eb severe but I don’t have any good gear on my rogue so can’t really aim
Sim
mossy valve
I know I’m in the minority but I hate outlaw lol as a tank main in 3k range i get to pick most of my groups and I usually would pick an assa rogue over outlaw
long portal
I usually use a mix between td/severe for keys. I don't really have a good m+set, and still missing EB/SS hat.
And in pugs, tanks never pull around restealths sooo
mossy valve
My question is like is the raid build THAT bad for keys. Like if you just ran SS and haste build, no EB I feel like overall damage would still be pretty high
long portal
Its a symptom of people fotm rerolling, probably. Id rather have someone play a class they know well than a fotm class in most cases.
rancid obsidian
Fokus more on prio killing than aoe
long portal
I havent expiramented much with full raid build tbh. In KR/WS I generally run a lot more st and it does ok.
mossy valve
Yeah I agree, I had an outlaw rogue who was 3k pull 70k overall in a freehold 22 and I’m still triggered
Like in keys above 20 shit lasts so long you should be at 100k easy
long portal
Idk how thats even possible tbh. I feel like I could do that as outlaw without ever pressing rtb
mossy valve
Also I main veng dh and iron wire is so nice cause the first part of a pull is the only scare part
Scary
Yeah idk he refused to press cloak the whole dungeon and didn’t parry the drunken enrage thing I still don’t get how you can play that much and be bad
long portal
Even if outlaw and assa did the same overall, outlaw has gouge and vanish available. So from a utility aspect, its hard to compete with that.
mossy valve
That’s true
long portal
Yeah i mean io score is a tool, but it shouldn't be the end of the world. Not to sound too cliche, but if i cared about score I would have a higher score /shrug
mossy valve
As a 12/12 I’m sure lmfao
Idk if this is a consensus either but if someone has CE I boost their score like 300 lol
prime void
Lot of CE players that are just braindead when it comes to keys
mossy valve
That’s fair
arctic walrus
12/12 didn't even matter 3 months ago and people still cared more about score
mossy valve
I’m just saying if I’m picking between a 12/12 m 2700 player and a 3/12 m 3k I’m probably gonna go with the 2700
long portal
For sure, its a different skill set. But both are just based on repetition. It's not like being 4k io means you're a wow savant. It mostly just means you spend a lot of time doing m+
mossy valve
That’s true for sure, I think to be fair if you’re 12/12 you should be easily comfortable in anything under a 20 in my opinion tho like every spec has timed up to a what 25 at this point?
At a certain point you have to know niche things and shit but basic keys you don’t need that
lime edge
whats the vendor
broken crypt
mastery 3 and td3 lol
glacial jasper
stay away from mages now lol
lime edge
xd
mossy valve
Masterful 3 and honed mind build for m+?
arctic walrus
crit's better
mossy valve
It just seems like it’d be fun lol
chilly marsh
look like leak is right
mossy valve
Can you link the datamine I lost it
arctic walrus
a leak can't be right one week and wrong another
mossy valve
That’s fair
raw lotus
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/t6E43wvMyVbp6o6Yj7xPmC Is there anything i can do to squeeze some more damage out of my current gear
strange python
is twilight dev worth for m+?
strange python
does FoK proc it?
steep plover
I have 2 severes, should i stack the rest expedient for the best m+ and raid hybrid?
Or any reccs for a good hybrud
vast forum
if you want a single hybrid set, expedient/severe are pretty good
prime void
Gear for whichever content you do more
golden vine
what’s base haste value for exsanguinate build?
late helm
Can I ask why my garrote dmg is so low? I see people my ilvl with 2x their dps from garrote, i have 3 SS, using the opener in the pin, and using exsang when its up. Feel like I'm missing something obvious..
arctic walrus
you barely have any haste/expedient gear and lack mythic gear
late helm
Right, but does that affect the average dmg of garrote? I'm seeing I have fewer ticks which i guess is haste related but is that the entire reason or am i doing something wrong rotation wise..
guess its pretty vague question
strange python
does the apl not use clf pre-pull?
rancid bobcat
if you are not overwriting your empowered garrotes then there's not much else you can do
more gear means more agi means more garrote damage
late helm
okay, yes i am making sure I don't overwrite any empowered garrotes
rancid bobcat
so if you are missing out on ilvl you are missing out on garrote average tick
long portal
The apl does use it prepull, but apparently it can bug and not cast for several seconds.
late helm
thing is i feel like my dps is low for my ilvl because I'm comparing my logs with other ppl my ilvl range
but as long as u guys don't see anything glaringly obvious thats good
long portal
Ilvl doesn't mean much compared to corruption/sockets
arctic walrus
comparing to one of my logs, you had 195 vs my 204
however your avg tick is 14.6k while mine is 27.4
late helm
right! it's so low!
late helm
the agil loss from mythic gear would double the avg tick dmg?
drowsy estuary
what is the most general build who i can use with a sin rogue to m+, st and pvp? im a casual player just want have fun
late helm
sorry if im being dense
cobalt pelican
you're playing 2 shrouded only, have 800 less agility, 600~ mastery
please use your gcb before your exsang too it's such a trash trinket if you don't
lime edge
i rlly got the backstab junk ring doing a m+ 2
carrying a friend
......................
im mad
manic pebble
bruh that's 20k dps higher than me
upper spear
my sim is saying i lose 300 dps if i go Vita over Dice. But with 8 exp and 1 racing, is it right?
or maybe Vita is better on certain fights? im not totally sure.
upper spear
just click on the wow website link, it shows you.
manic pebble
thanks!
long portal
I noticed my dice sim higher than vita also, when paired with gcb.
But dice reminds me of outlaw so I cant use them 🤷♂️
upper spear
lol
upper spear
depends on the fight
so to simplify my question, if anybody knows. Im running 8 exp2's. My Dice are simming higher than my Vita. I see a lot of people using Vita over Dice. Should i be too?
true
long portal
Does apl assume vita proc for exsang? That would make all the difference one way or the other.
near coyote
So will gushing wounds still be good, or not worth it since were all so much haste
arctic walrus
no expedient is better than gw after the nerf
heavy forum
Anyone got like a very simple and clean WA for tracking bleeds?
And what do people do when they do m+ and raid? Do you change the whole gear, rings trinkets azerite. Regemm, essences and all that. I hate this dumb expansion lol, and then you need a whole differenst gear to do PvP? Regemmm and all there aswel? I just Get a big OOF feeling of this....
solar abyss
Do u run anything else besides expedient?
heavy forum
No i havnt bought any corr. I got 2 gushing 1 expedient and 1 twisted rank 2
torpid sparrow
hello guys , i m starting to build a new set for mm+ as assa(dont wanna use my raid gear at all with full haste and expedient obviously), what u guys r runing for keys 19-20+? cara dagger? 2-3 severe?2-3 strikethrought?anything else?
steep plover
pls help a poor man
tips
top gear tells me to get expedient 3 on my offhand
i ended up getting 2 severes tho cause thats what top gear was showing me would do more dps earlier
radiant quail
what do you want to gear for m+ or raid?
steep plover
this would be for raid i swap my shoulders and head for m+
radiant quail
well best thing for raid is the stack haste
so you shot yourself in the foot buying severe
also work on getting workshop ring thats procs haste
also azerite pieces from raden and cara
steep plover
rip
radiant quail
dont get me wrong severe is good for m+
steep plover
when i was simming it told me to get severes so thats why i got it
radiant quail
but you also put them on high ilvl with bad stats
steep plover
fuck
i dont know shit about any of this
first time gearing to this level
i usually do more m+
thats why i didnt mind going severe
radiant quail
but you still put severe on a piece that has no crit
radiant quail
and for m+ on ur azerite pieces you want 3 SS and 3 EB i believe but im not too sure about m+ as i play outlaw
steep plover
ye thats what im going for
i got the shoulders last reset so all i need now is a piece with both ss and eb
a chest actually
steep plover
i dont have much good gear, so should i just farm as much good gear as possible, and buy and bunch of expedients/severes, and then gear that is high haste ill put expedient on and use for raid, nd gear with good crit put severe on and use for m+
nah i havent
im usually on my phone
radiant quail
have a look at it
radiant quail
just try get 15's done every week
and make sure ur doing 5mask and 4mask clears for the 470 and 465 ilvl items
steep plover
right sweet
fuck i wasted those severes then ay D::
oh well
thanks for the help cuz much appreciated
radiant quail
not wasted but yeah not the best stats unfortunately
radiant quail
overclocking bit band
steep plover
i got the protecting bit band and logic loop
are they any useful
protecting has alot of haste
radiant quail
just focus on getting that ring and the raden helm and cara chest
then gorak's tul shoulder from azerite vendor
but the vendor is rng i still dont have mine
steep plover
Easy got some goals then
normal olive
i got DD / SS shoulders, should i try to rng roll for gorak shoulders or wait for 20k
normal olive
How many shoulders are there that you can roll?
tropic ocean
7 afaik
normal olive
so in theory it actually would be cheaper to just wait if you got no luck hmh
radiant quail
thats a lot of waiting if u have none saved up
normal olive
yeah
tropic ocean
because u can just roll it with first roll for 4750
normal olive
with my luck i get it after shadowlands
cold patio
hm junkyard ring 3 diff spells or stand behind?
tight canopy
how many weeks left before expedint three hit the market again ?
verbal sparrow
I rather would go for 3 diff spells because not on every boss you can be behind him (for an example wrathion, also you don't have to check every time if you're behind the target.
prime void
Poisons proc the from behind. The 3 abilities ring is trash.
jolly star
verbal sparrow
wait, poisons proc from behind ? that's op quite bit lol
thx for letting us* know mate
cold patio
ok than from behind thx :-p
dark crag
Behind the target is everything at 180°
Only ilgy, organs and stacking at carapace are sometimes hard
loud brook
Is this how I'm supposed to sim m+ for sin? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aD3AT1pYyYBzWnN3JapAMq
thin gate
guys is the mythic n zoth Chest better than a 480 chest with ss?
loud brook
as a rough estimation of aoe potential
thin gate
because of heart of darkness
Raden Helmet and Ily Shoulders bis for high haste build i guess?
i got vexiona chest rn and it sims better with Double dose
Double Dose+ Heart of the darkness is better than Double dose + SS to me
arctic walrus
It depends how much lower it sim for you
Ss build has a lot of potential in a lot of the cleave fights and that isn’t something that will come up in patchwork sims, so if it’s close enough, you should be fine switching to it
Dd is still fine to play though if you lack the gear
thin gate
well i got 70% haste
rn
guys, when u fight bosses like vexiona do u Garrote vexiona Garrote add Garrote Vexiona as opener?
or still garrote rupture garrote
glass breach
would it be worth to get TA over Expedient? or stack Expedient
arctic walrus
Nah expedient only
loud brook
I run 3 shrouds and 2 ss. I open up by garroting vex, tabbing to the add and garroting it, then tabbing back and garroting vex. Then i go throug my opener on vex. When the adds spawn, I vanish, garrote vex, then garrote the two enforcers and blood of the enemy
then just echoing blade spam
after that, just focus down priority targets, then get back to vex. you will do alot of boss damage
thin gate
okay, because in my first vexiona fight now
i had 85K dps @ 90k Sim
on 4:12 Min fight
just had my cooldowns up again
honest basin
On most groups though the Rogue doesn't have to pad with EB to kill the adds and can focus solely on the boss
thin gate
i just sometimes FOK while targeting Vex for Envenom spam
loud brook
yeah, you can totally just go shroud and normal stuff too. I like echoing because i can funnel add damage into boss
and each blade hits vex too, since she's got a big hitbox
unless the tanks want to tilt the dps
thin gate
so do u play high crit Build @ vexiona?
or just regular high haste
with echoing blades
and do u keep BOTE for adds then with echoing blades?
sterile quartz
I personaly play on AOE bosses alwasy 3x SS and 3x EB + about 50% crit
On hivemind my PR is 140 K
Vexiona 95 K
thin gate
do u guys think the mastery Proc could be a thing?
sterile quartz
Carapace 111 K
thin gate
i mean there are many pieces with echoing blades and the 1400 mastery proc trait
royal lantern
i mean, its razor coral?
loud brook
If I win the lottery and get the cowl of fowl machinations at 480, then i'd 100% go 3 eb too
loud brook
It's what i run on vex when i want to go sin.
thin gate
is crit 12% better or the 4% damage
with full gear on crit and sockets
u should already have a high crit chance or not
loud brook
sim it, idk man. srry
thin gate
all right
sterile quartz
I alwasy run with one TD 3
thin gate
isnt Echoing blades already stronger at 2 targets than multilate?
i mean when u run 3 x echoing blades
ur FOK damage should be about 6500-7000 damage
while multilate should be about 7500-8k
- the Crit Proc of it
royal lantern
no
loud brook
I mean, each fan can crit and do additional damage to each enemy kind of like unholy dk's epidemic except it has a 5 target cap for quadratic scaling.
when the adds come out it'll be worth to fan, but when 1 or 2 of the enforcers start dieing, switch back to mutilate
loud brook
it's not?
yeah, but i mean the fan has to crit too
for eb to activate
then the first 5 crits will trigger eb
royal lantern
yes, thats how eb works, and eb procs themself allways crit
wich is why it has good burst with blood
thin gate
so if u have like a 50 % chance u need about 10 targets to proc all of the EB
loud brook
yeah, i've switched over to blood myself for almost every fight now
thin gate
if u want to make sure u get the ideal performance out of FOK
royal lantern
except that you dont really play blood with the haste/exsang build
royal lantern
maaaaan,its hard too understand what you guys mean in that flood of information
yes in m+ you go blood and crit heacy
no you dont FoK at 2 targets
in raid with enough expedient and haste cus of it you will probably go CLF as major, but better sim yourself too be save
loud brook
this is true
you also have to consider the utility of blood on a fight like vexiona. Every other pac after you use your blood you'll have it back up. packs go enforcer, enforcer, fanatic, fanatic, enforcer. Assuming that you blood each other pack it will be up for group 1, 3, and 5. Your vanish will be up around group 4, but i hold off on it to save it for the fifth pack to better line up with my cds
CLF will be there for either packs 1 and 5 or on your opener and pack 4 and 5. Overall i'd think that clf would be less useful just because of the frequency of it's uses on that specific fight
I say all of this assuming a 4 min 30 sec kill timer
faint harness
imagine getting 5 packs
loud brook
I blame society
loud brook
yeah you could make a compelling argument to go clf for that fight as the ranged and big aoe cleavers mop up packs 3 cause they're cds are back up by then. Really damage on the enforcers and boss is all that's really needed
it depends on the makeup of the raid it feels like
strange python
On vexiona id always run clf vuz of the 40%
Phase and u also have enough aoe dmg in the raid anyway
If u want to cleave go outlaw u are there for boss dmg
loud brook
fair
vocal hedge
Hey, is dungeonslice reliable for m+?
vocal hedge
wondering cuz it tells me to use expedient instead of severe https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9RAtyKwhu3XRwsQyXVNQZU
drifting cosmos
i think ppl only post patchwreck 5 min sim here
quasi scroll
Is this exsanguinate/exped build good for M+?
tropic ocean
its not necessarily bad
guess depends on what your goal for the dungeon is
it has some higher st compared to crit/crit dmg
but less aoe
quasi scroll
I mostly do 12-16 keys and do 3ss 1NP 1EB 1ttk
and roll around 25% haste 35% crit
had 105 corruption worth of Mindflay but trying to shed it because it's too random
here was last night, just felt kind of low
derp
tropic ocean
thats not bad for logged dps
storm perch
is it possible, that exp 3 can be on next reset?
olive tusk
Hi everyones! How are you? =)
2 questions:
- Twisted Appendage : is ok to have Twisted Appendage RANK 1 on all your items? Or is it non-sense?
- Why are the best rogues in Nyalotha, which are playing with Exsang and 3x Shrouded Suffocation, are using a VERSATILITY trinket? Why not a other haste-one, or a crit-one?
strange python
Hello
Im fine how are you
U want expedient stacks on every item
And the reason why vers trinket is cuz it sims highest
strange python
Aka it sims highest for them
warm parcel
again nope
strange python
Since when are people running what they like instead of whats best
warm parcel
since the dawn of time
olive tusk
well well well... it sims higher... ok. Why that? The main stat should be hast, than crit, so why versatility all of sudden? i dont get it
warm parcel
Ill bet you my shoes both coral and galecaller would outsim plum
Yet people dont use those
Also IS outsims everything
Why arent people running is only
vestal wren
essence choice def. is something more opinionated then mathematical 😉
strange python
Coral sims lower for me and galecallers aswell as soon as adds are coming into play
lime edge
^^
strange python
People are running is in pure st? U can see that
olive tusk
@quasi pewter can u explain us why u play Lustrous Golden Plumage please?
olive tusk
can u repeat this sentence with other words please?^^ i m not sure i got it
you mean Gale and Coral can make the job too?
quasi pewter
plumage is bis
olive tusk
Hi @quasi pewter . Ok it's bis, but why?
why tf you want versatility all of sudden and not crit for your bleedings?
distant lava
cause it does more damage
quasi pewter
because most of your damage comes from a big 2 minute burst window and its a 2 min cd trinket
quasi pewter
big problem with coral is it does nothing first 2 minutes
olive tusk
OK ty guys!!
scarlet sequoia
np
past arch
master assassin instead of subterfuge
grizzled jay
sims lower
winter gale
Guys, is there any more precise date when Expedient 3 will be up again?
Is it still last week of June?
past arch
4 weeks from when it was up first time
winter gale
That means cca next week?
warm sparrow
Is the Expedient stack really just for raiding? I mostly do a few 10+s, some BGs and full clear Heroic Nya every week. Should I still stack all of Exp 3 or would Severe/ST be more appropriate?
rancid obsidian
What actually does the Dmg Bonus from Nightstalker do?
Does it only increase your dmg while your are invisible?Isn't that completly useless since you are not doing dmg then?
plain thistle
@rancid obsidian it increases the damage of your next ability, you use on your highest DPE, aka rupture
next ability = first ability exiting stealth xD
hollow escarp
on single target, severe sims better than expedient for me. Has anybody else had this? Also how does it work in practice, is expedient still better?
not sure if severe sims better because of appendage corruption as well
rancid obsidian
Ok so the effect is snapshoted?
plain thistle
yeah, it snapshot the rupture bleed, for the entire duration
rancid obsidian
If you need crit and don't have several Expedient already it will sim bether but you only want so much crit where you want as much Tempo as possible.
hollow escarp
yeah, I was tempted to buy another severe but I will just farm echoes for when expedient 3 comes out .
rancid obsidian
For me crit stopped simming bether once i had about 35%
rancid obsidian
How did you manage that?How much do you sim?
rancid obsidian
Oh
rancid obsidian
Well jeah for Aoe just go for crit
hollow escarp
if I don't make my group or play with guild I barely get in groups as assa 😄
hollow escarp
I don't like that trinket
can ninja pull stuff 
also I don't know if it ever a good idea to go ST build in M+
but investing in 2 sets takes so much time and echoes
tribal obsidian
no matter what I do at current corruption levels i cant seem to get max expedient to sim anywhere near one r3 IS
boreal maple
ur not supposed to be able to do that
IS wil sim higher
but is bad on so many fights
lime edge
Are you comparing r3 IS to 4 r3 expedients?
tribal obsidian
not just combos of both staying under 60
lime edge
What corruptions are you running
strange python
guys im not exactly sure what to do as assa in an aoe situation in m+. I usually open with garrote on 3 targets, get a rupture up, spread poison with fan of knives and then I use cps to get more ruptures or envenoms. is this generally correct? my dmg is very very low.
strange python
I did check the guides
tribal obsidian
depends on how big the pack is honestly
and are you saying you are low in comparison to another class?
like bm hunter
strange python
the thing I wanna know mainly is if it is worth to spend cps on more than 1 rupture or if it is more effective to just use them on envdnom after first
general low dmg for my gear, imo
gentle delta
so i encountered something weird
idk if fire mage is just broken or my pawn was broken
but i got one fire mage with approximately the same ilvl as me (457)
and he was dealing 150k dps in bosses while im doing 60k
am i doing something wrong?
tribal obsidian
ignite kappa
tribal obsidian
are you asking about mage vs mage in assassination channel
drifting cosmos
fight time is too short
gentle delta
i mean
drifting cosmos
fire mage burst hard
gentle delta
am i supposed to deal as much as him?
drifting cosmos
no you are not
rancid obsidian
Huh
lean marten
sin still has a "ramp" where fmage just blasts imo
takes like 5 seconds to actually dps lol
tropic ocean
actually firemage needs a longer time for his burst
compared to sin
sin hits exsang usually at 7ish seconds into fight, while mage combusts at 12/13s or so
lime edge
Exsang sin has really good burst
tropic ocean
yeah its pretty on par with firemage
vast forum
mage doesn't combust 12 sec into the fight lol
pre-cast pyro, fire blast (off gcd), lucid, rune, meteor, combust
it's literally your 4th global
the thing that assa has is longer burst
fire falls off after 15-20 sec while our vanish garrote keeps our burst going for a total of 35-40 sec
rancid obsidian
Uff, i was just thinking about it and nightstalker acutally starts simming highest for me... whats wrong?
vast forum
that talent row is low impact if you don't have SS
rancid obsidian
It's only by like 10 dps but still.
lime edge
Sub*
vast forum
when koji simmed it
subterfuge was 1.6% ahead of not having a talent in that row at all
lime edge
Also, if it's a 10dps diff, use sub
vast forum
that's how low-impact it is
tropic ocean
@vast forum are we talking in m+ or raid?
vast forum
both
tropic ocean
in raid def not
rancid obsidian
Jeah will prob stay with sub anyway becaus nigtstalker fucks to much with my muscle memory but still, i was talking about patchwerk.
tropic ocean
vast forum
what fight is that?
vast forum
vast forum
tropic ocean
probably related to talent choice
vast forum
maybe the guy is running 100% crit above 90%
tropic ocean
burst is very similar though comparing sin to firemage
vast forum
but rank 1 shad'har uses it at 5.5 sec
tropic ocean
+- 400kish
lime edge
Fire mages delay combust if they run 100% or above 90. Right?
vast forum
yea, if they don't lose casts
vast forum
yea but it only lasts 10-15 sec unlike ours
tropic ocean
the dps-drop is way harder though yeah
quasi scroll
Is there a good up-to-date do on assassination M+ builds?
drifting cosmos
nothing has changed in a while
arctic walrus
Oh hey I’m in that log
red plaza
yeah if combusting on "pull" it'll always be ~3 seconds or so until you actually press combust. Precast fireball @4 seconds before pull, fight starts, timewarp > lucid > fire blast (if no fireball crit) > rune of power > meteor > fireblast > combust . So about 3 GCDs after fight starts before combusting
runic kernel
Is there an ideal order to do the zones in orgrimmar visions? I cant find any information and the clears ive watched people sometimes do them in different orders. Wondering if there is a guide or any information on which pattern is ideal?
wet ruin
you can do them in whatever order you want and you won't have any problems
its mostly personal preference
glacial jasper
Thinking expedient 3 on tues or next Friday?
cobalt pelican
no
young portal
@glacial jasper neither
glacial jasper
Longer aye?
young portal
the closest it possibly could be is a week on tuesday, but if the rumours are true and the cycles get mixed up once the first cycle is up
it will be longer aye
glacial jasper
thought we’re near end of rotation
young portal
aye but there's several wowhead posts of datamining, people trying to figure the rotation. A lot of speculation flying round, a lot are saying June 26th
but no one knows at this point
rancid obsidian
Wow i sim -5 dps if i switch my weapons... lul
glacial jasper
That’s margin of error
magic fossil
striket~ or deadly momentum besides severe for m+ ?
glacial jasper
M+ severe
For fok traits
And I believe strikethru after that
Anyone else with alpha: are you finding keeping snd active and rupture and garrote all to be a bit much?
Opinions welcome
vapid mountain
The guide on the website doesn't say when in the rotation to press blood of the enemy with MA talented. I'm still gearing up so I don't have the haste for the Exsan build. I'm assuming it's after Vendetta->Toxic Blade->BotE->Vanish->Envenom-> continue as normal
dark crag
Yes
vapid mountain
And then just hold it for every vendetta, using it that same way
vast forum
yes