However my point is more than the bleed build is capable of keeping up with Outlaw even on DS sims which shows the damage output overall is not too bad. That was not the case with earlier tier bleed-centric setups.
#assassination
fleet anchor
The high Haste levels make CT and SS very strong tools
Even in Nyalotha raid trash last night, I was often in the top-5 for 4-6 target pulls, it really was only the "mass" burst AoE that the build is not strong. (Pre-Hivemind, for example) and it's actually pretty hard to beat its performance on 2-3 target pulls.
Like looking at KR for example, you do have a fair amount of smaller pulls in the typical route. At the start, during the gauntlet, Zul, the obelisk bosses themselves, etc. Like, once you take the slimes out, I don't really know how well EB does in that situation vs. a Bleed setup.
boreal maple
blood minor suddenly bangs for me 
tropic ocean
thats not the argument anyway
you dont play eb in kr/tos/ws anyway due to low trash pulls
the difference between non eb on dungeons like fh/ur/ml/sots and so on is very high due to high pull sizes
I already tried not playing eb in other dungeons besides the usual candidates
and im leaving with 80kish
while doing 100k+ overall
with 3 ss 3 eb
and that is before having crit/strike setup
fleet anchor
I mean not even sure I am totally sold on Shrine unless you care about slime/shitter adds before 2nd boss damage which I'm not sure totally matters in most cases
willow pulsar
and FoK without eb and vers hits like a wet nudle
tropic ocean
idk what keys u are doing but in shrine u pull decently big
fleet anchor
Like EB will do a lot of damage there but what's the difference if those packs die 2 seconds faster or not
marble hemlock
you can just run a full crit/haste+expedient setup with 1xTD3 if you want more aoe
with DS/CT
and 3SS 2HoD/1BBI
or 3SS 1NP 2Clockwork
and will still do decent enough aoe while having much higher st/prio
willow pulsar
<- clockwork player
fleet anchor
Yeah tossing on a TD is not a bad idea for that situation
fleet anchor
I mean you still get to run what? Expedient 12?
willow pulsar
why would we even need crit in that situation, lets just go haste/mastery
fleet anchor
Still seems fine, you'd be sitting over 40% unbuffed Haste even with TD3
marble hemlock
cause youd still want high cp generation on aoe
tropic ocean
and would not advice it to random people asking for advice either
marble hemlock
to multidot properly, esp when running DS
fleet anchor
I mean with a typical PvE setup you still have Crit as your 2nd best stat
My set has quite a lot of Crit on it
marble hemlock
yeah
running like 40% crit in an otherwise ufll haste setup
isnt difficult to achieve
fleet anchor
I'm running around 35% unbuffed Crit yeah
with 52% Haste
That's with TA2/GW filler for the moment until the vendor comes around, which could be supplemented for TD in this situation
Like if I wanted to run TD3 just drop the TA2/GW and one Expedient II
Still would be running like 48%+ Haste
Think it's definitely an option
Not saying EB is bad, just think this setup is potentially more flexible and doesn't require a full second corruption set
tropic ocean
that definetely
marble hemlock
well, the benefit of the sev/str setup is that oyu can run it in both outlaw and assa
youd just need 1 flex piece with ineffable
to swap between specs
tropic ocean
I just dont think its wroth
to sacrifice so much overall for st gain
at least for me never had issues with boss dps
marble hemlock
youll want that expedient gearset for smth like KR/Workshop anyway
willow pulsar
most of my gear is pure crit/vers so having zero haste on outlaw with DS ain't a good idea
willow pulsar
i had bad time playing outlaw with 12% haste
tropic ocean
idk
i only play outlaw in +15
for boost purpose
0 issue
and my gear has sub 10% haste
tropic ocean
ds
snow sparrow
So why is expedient stacking so strong now? More in the context of raid fights?
Also someone mentioned a 115k rogue similar with BIS gear. Does anyone have a link?
tropic ocean
because the biggest issue of bfa sin rogue is empty gcds
due to energy starving
haste completely fixes this issue
+makes ur bleeds better too
snow sparrow
Also to note. Just checked the pinned messages... ty for your response as well!
slender trail
anyone have a sample severe m+ raidbots build link handy?
i see a ton of expedients st ones floating around but not many for m+
tropic ocean
@fleet anchor and yes 3 target cleave is probably incompetable with expedient raidbuild
u already see that from raz destroying hivemind
w/o eb pad
fleet anchor
Yeah, especially with the new All-Star rules for Hivemind 😉
Raz gonna be #1 easy lol
tropic ocean
i think he is 1
but yeah the dps was insane with basically no pad on smallies
think I did less with 3 ss 3eb when adds lived forever
wise bear
is it wrong to use x1 Rank 3 TA x1 rank 2 TW x3 rank 1 TA?
i did this and i think i did something wrong
dark token
im really glad exang is good again. I vastly prefer it over DD because of higher burst, vanish/SS opens up nice cleave options, and the fact your performance matters more
as in rankings become more based on cooldown usage and planning since exang build frontloads a lot of dmg into the 2 min windows
it helps differentiate good play more than a TB/DD build
sullen cloak
When you guys are saying it works well with high haste, how much haste we talking?
dark token
exang outsims DD for me wearing 0 expedients @ 2.2k haste just from gear
but i have gorak tuls and no nzoth azerite, DD might sim better if you had the 490s
limber dagger
Guys random question: How much dps do assa rogue with like 475 in the opener have nowadays? Havent played rogue in a while
dark token
200-400k depends on gear and rng
limber dagger
with luck you mean poison bomb?
limber dagger
lol
dim sail
does anyone know the BIS corruption sim for assa rogues? could you link it if u have it
limber dagger
Does assa rogue need corruptions so badly?
dark token
no
but corruptions influence everyone
you can get 200k dps from corruption in your opener its just rng man
here is a stacked exang build opener
purple is the corruption
woeful minnow
astral tiger
A very kind soul sent me this to help me see how i can improve my sim, but I was wondering about the real-time effectiveness of the build if anyone has a chance to give it a quick look https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aPuS1KQhZaqA4uwZfpJhGP
woeful minnow
what do you mean exactly
people have mostly come to the conclusion that clf is simbait and that bote tends to be better in real life scenarios, other than that I'm not sure what you mean
astral tiger
Like it may sim higher, but is it actually viable in a fight?
I just never see any sin running deeper strategem nor crimson tempest in a ST fight
It just seems odd
woeful minnow
the crimson tempest thing is very new
you can check #tc-updates for that
as for deeper stratagem, it pulls ahead of vigor at high enough haste levels
astral tiger
Oh hmm, i didn't know that. Thank you for the information!
tribal obsidian
So what damage counts now on hivemind?
tropic ocean
most likely
tropic blade
do you guys use galecallers on cd or hold it for exsanguinate?
tropic ocean
ravager, darter, boss
boreal maple
why is it broken?
boreal maple
yea? and what is the problem
wise bear
i sim the same how
leaden lichen
anyone have any tips for mythic nzoth? I'm going in mindgate 2 and im basically useless i feel like
covert crag
this shows that 1 expedient t1 would increase my ST dps by 9k... am I missing something?
fleet anchor
I'll admin
*admit
I'm not the biggest Exsang fan in the world since I think the cooldown is awkward and the mechanics are janky
But I 110% prefer this over RNG Corruption crap
frigid briar
+1
fleet whale
it's honestly been an awkward ability since implemented imo, especially the legion pre-patch version
drifting cloud
@covert crag it activates your hod traits
fleet anchor
Nothing made me happier than being able to move on from months of praying for procs lol
fleet whale
idk how it would even interact with shiv(TB) in shadowlands
boreal maple
i mean u still praying for procs on the fights u were praying for procs be4 exsang no?
fleet anchor
IS/TD/TA are just terrible game design
Putting that much player power behind RPPM procs is a very bad idea
Because RPPM is just way too inconsistent pull to pull
elfin saffron
how much dps dif is there between DD build and SS build?
fleet whale
i suppose you could still run TB with full expedient though, though you would sim less and probably do less damage
idk i don't really like "DD vs SS"
considering there are pieces where you can have both traits
patent topaz
thats just expedient 18 
vestal wren
isn't the entire problem just the low proc chance coupled with rppm
fleet anchor
Yeah there are a lot of issues
TA having zero loss from B2B procs while also being 1 RPPM makes it extremely variable
tropic ocean
@fleet anchor
With those changes assassination will rise in wcl statistics
We gonna become a good dps
😁
fleet anchor
haha
dapper solar
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2Pkcd1mtBVF7j6MZ4jTawc is CLF really sim bait or should i use it in raid
fleet anchor
WCL can pretend Mages aren't OP
fleet anchor
"lalala I can't heaaaar the DPS of Ignite"
jolly star
tropic ocean
Actually big brain
fleet anchor
"WCL or it didn't happen"
tropic ocean
😂😂😂
carmine dawn
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
fleet anchor
@jolly star this is still the most beautiful tooltip to me
carmine dawn
anyone got a weakaura for a new sin to see garrote and rupture uptime?
fleet anchor
tropic ocean
Big
fleet anchor
I heard you liked Haste 😄
dapper solar
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2Pkcd1mtBVF7j6MZ4jTawc should i use CLF in raid scenario?
plz respond xd
dapper solar
yeah my ring slaps
boreal maple
u can use CLF on some fights sure if u want do
dapper solar
i just wanna use the best one no preference really
boreal maple
dosnt matter alot which one u use
dapper solar
awesome ty idk why someone was saying its "sim bait:
jolly star
i have the set @fleet anchor with
fleet anchor
OP
plain thistle
fleet anchor
CLF is definitely not simbait.. some folks do seem to have an idea that because 5 minute sims are default and some pulls are 3 minutes that CLF becomes bad. Without simming 2-3 minute pulls themselves. CLF basically wins at all fight durations right now.
drifting cloud
yeah probably by like 5-10 haste 😛
jolly star
oof, g2k @plain thistle
fleet anchor
CLF also scales very well with neck ilevel
The pet damage is very high at this point
One use of CLF can often be over 1m damage from the pet alone
At high Haste/Neck levels
dapper solar
awesome ty
thin gate
arctic acorn
By itself the CLF is way too good imo
thin gate
my stat weight are weird
boreal maple
tempo 
fleet anchor
That's because they are in German duh!
vital haven
is pre clfing still a good thing to do @fleet anchor
fleet anchor
I didn't see anything conclusive one way or another
arctic acorn
I mean you would want to push the Bewegungsgeschwingdigkeit
fleet anchor
It's pretty much neutral in theory
Can just cast it after pull if you are comfortable with that
idle nova
i hate simming zzz
arctic acorn
I wonder if you would want to use the pot on the vandetta window or the clf window
since you can't line them up
idle nova
corruption is so fun :^)
fleet anchor
@vestal wren I'm gonna need some advice on this whole Bewegungsgeschwingdigkeit thing. 😄
boreal maple
what u mean u cant line em up?
vestal wren
wait, i need some context
fleet anchor
Scroll up a little bit 😄
vestal wren
bewegungsgeschwindingkeit = movement speed
woeful minnow
to go back to the bote/clf discussion above, raz plays bote and feels it's better than clf and I tend to trust him when it comes to that build
clf is sim bait
@scarlet sequoia
amber smelt
hey guys, what's the haste cap for assasination?
woeful minnow
that's who I was quoting when I said it earlier to that guy asking
fleet anchor
Raz has been concerned about the odd casting behavior of the GoA pet
But I don't think logs really support it doing less damage on average
Even the floor on most of these logs still beat BotE on log analysis
boreal maple
only bosses i wouldnt do clf is nzoth and carapace.
fleet anchor
BotE is close enough that if you would rather use it, it's kinda whatever. But if you are concerned about doing max DPS or trying to parse, I would say CLF is 100% the play in the vast majority of encounters.
I think CLF is fine on Nzoth. I'd only not run it if I was using Breath
CLF lines up with 3 of the 4 N'zoth Vendetta windows
Which is actually a much better rate than the 2:1 BotE vs. CLF ratio on a 3 minute pull
cobalt pelican
if we're purely talking parsing bote hits way too many things on nzoth to not be correct like
boreal maple
yea but u have to hold it on pull
its pretty weird to use it
else it dosnt get rdy for first dmg phase
fleet anchor
Don't really see a problem with holding it on pull.. the adds at the start of the fight die in like
3 seconds
🤣
cobalt pelican
you tag like 12 psycophages on bote 2 and 5(?)
and while bote cast damage isnt hot
it's like
close enough st that it should more than make up the diff
fleet anchor
Sure but if you actually care about optimizing boss damage CLF is going to be very considerably better
cobalt pelican
shur, if boss damage is the plan i can see that
i've actually not played it on that fight so idk if you press it downstairs it transitions upstairs and werks properly
fleet anchor
The fact that it aligns with 75% of the Vendetta windows is a better than normal rate
And if you are just going for max damage parse I'm still pretty sure Breath micro-ing would be best for that too. So pick your poison. 😛
drifting cloud
well depends what your kill timer is
tropic ocean
pretty sure if u want to parse on nzoth now
clf will be better than bote anyway
with psychus nerf
fleet anchor
Breath sniping is gonna be like 12-16% damage if you do it correctly
tropic ocean
as unless u want to int u cant really use clf on psychus
drifting cloud
because 2nd stun is 5:30, so 8:30 and 11:30 .. what if you kill the boss before 11:30 or around there
boreal maple
u not gonna get last off tho
fleet anchor
Nothing actually competes with optimal Breath usage on that fight, but it's hard to execute
gray flower
is there a level of haste that lets you get 4 Garrotes in the subterfuge window?
fleet whale
no, were locked to a 1 second gcd
boreal maple
u can get 4 yea with high haste
not sure what exact number is tho
pretty easy with lust now
verbal sparrow
guys what happened, 3 pulls in a row first of all, my overall haste dropped like 6%, (with the exactly same gear), Apphendage didn't procced once on 3 or more pulls, and my overall dps dropped like 30k
cobalt pelican
you can never get 4 garrotes with any amount of haste without lag
fleet anchor
@drifting cloud What's your 11:30 figure from above? Are you assuming using it on the pull there? I was just holding CLF on pull and using at 2:30, 5:30, and start of P3. P3 Vendetta was at 10:30-10:40 for me last time.
verbal sparrow
is that legit some bug or I'm just being fking scammed by blizz
fleet whale
sin is locked to a one second gcd
boreal maple
i just tried 3 garrote and rupture
cobalt pelican
let me fire up the old wow
tropic ocean
x doubt
fleet anchor
It can happen with latency
gray flower
is Raz's assassination sim pinned anywhere?
fleet anchor
Sometimes the Subterfuge buff isn't removed on time
quartz depot
you type raz into search
obtuse island
I’m not getting lucky at all with Azerite, trying to get Eb x3 and SSx3.. is there any other way I can go for M+ until I get those?
drifting cloud
@fleet anchor yeah thats what I meant depends on your kill timer, if you are doing splits and/or people die and you gamble with the 8:30 clf if you think the boss is going to live 12 or close to it you can get another one in, but I guess the 8:30 isnt gonna be super optimal because chamber is around 9min
fleet anchor
Yeah I was just using Vendetta on second adds anyway
drifting cloud
wont happen for most guilds on farm
tacit pebble
are you telling me the play is to do dungeons with a lag switch
cobalt pelican
yeah, brief testing ingame 4th garrote gcd with just drums and my base (70%~) haste still drops the buffed garrote
fleet anchor
So CLF on pull seemed like a major waste
cobalt pelican
i assume you just play on lag normally mote or smth
fleet anchor
First adds last night for us when everyone has their corruption
boreal maple
i have 32 ms
cobalt pelican
do you have any packet loss at all
tropic ocean
your interface might show it as buffed garrote
but it isn't
you can just log and see it from wcl
boreal maple
i mean if the garrote dosnt go on CD its buffed or?
its 0
if i do g-r-g-g
with lust up
verbal sparrow
okey I just realized when I relogged my corruptions weren't working 
Blizz small indie company be like
boreal maple
can i log a dummy
cobalt pelican
yea
is there an easier way to get rid of sated in the open world
than stand around waiting
cobalt pelican
o truuu
fleet anchor
Hey, at least with Expedient not working it's pretty obvious lol
I love having 2-3 minute wipes and being like "Hmm TA didn't proc.. working? Or just normal?" 🤔
fleet whale
i don't even think haste level would matter all that much if it's actually possible to cast 4 garrotes in a subter window
considering with vigor we have 170 energy, and 4 garrotes is 180 energy
vital haven
anyone know the pandemic timing for CT?
vital haven
ty ty
rancid bobcat
boreal maple
it goes off exact same sec as subte fudge debuff expires. and my garrote dosnt get CD
how do i check if last one is buffed 
cobalt pelican
realistically if it's not on cd you can assume it's buffed
cobalt pelican
but if you have the log the damage is fine to check
vast forum
that just sounds like lag and unreliable
last crown
current tier feels BAD jesus. my sim is still only ~90k but my DPS doesnt change until we get carapace down lmfao
vast forum
you can get higher than that
cobalt pelican
seems fine, first garrote doesn't show in the cast sequence but i guess that's cause you're starting from ooc and it's not a boss engagement
last crown
im only able to get marginal upgrades from things like Drest gloves, but nothing major. im stuck wiating on exped3 to come back and cara dagger.
cobalt pelican
but idk why you can do it
fleet anchor
CT Pandemic will depend on how many CP you are casting it with
cobalt pelican
consistently
boreal maple
it only works with bl tho
cobalt pelican
i can't do it w/ drums, i have slightly worse gear than you but ye
it's not like i'm low haste
fleet whale
Blood lust shouldn't really matter, as were locked to a one second gcd
boreal maple
yea drums i mean
fleet whale
and we start with 170 energy anyway
boreal maple
i mean why can i do with with drums up but not without then?
drifting cloud
hes a time wizard
fleet whale
and like i said, it's 180 energy for 4 garrotes, and energy is constantly increasing
so even without lust you would have enough energy for 4 straight garrotes
cobalt pelican
the only way it's possible for this to make sense outside of lag is for rupture gcd to be hasted for him for some reason
but that wouldn't make sense
so idk
just gonna assume you have some weird connection shit
fleet anchor
4 GCD Subterfuge is mostly about latency
Unless something has changed recently
I remember Mystler and I tested this a fair bit at some point
fleet whale
maybe he's using garrote at the same time as he vanishes
or he uses garrote like a milisecond before he vanishes and by the time the animation is complete the buff is applied
limber tinsel
I really doubt you can get 4x garrotes
shell atlas
guys exp3 stack works with doble dose build?
fleet whale
sure
strange python
What best corruptions for assassination rogues?
fleet whale
i wouldn't use tendies if i'm honest
vast forum
tendies aren't the best
they're most commonly used because we as rogues have them guaranteed on daggers
thin gate
485 Pieces maybe mindflay T3 or Gw ? not sure
shell atlas
i have tendie 7
last crown
does anyone know if its possible to force your sim to run without a certain move? im curious to take vanish off since details keeps resetting when i vanish on a dummy
strange python
So focus on Expedient
rancid bobcat
whats going on now
vast forum
no1 would be using tendies if we had corruption vendor from the get-go
thin gate
@shell atlas do it
its BiS
6 x exp 3 1 x exp 2 1 x mastery proc
since raz simmed very well with that
limber tinsel
I mean, you are gonna cleanse cara daggers to put on exped?
shell atlas
the thing is when i sim
thin gate
ur GCD is going to decrease = more passive damage
shell atlas
tendies always sim higher
cobalt pelican
just..
shell atlas
ofc its rng
cobalt pelican
set your details to overall?
removing vanish from the apl is never going to be the play
rancid bobcat
definitely havent been able to get garrote-rupture-garrote-garrote
fleet whale
sims are a tool not a bible
thin gate
i played 200% haste proc and wasnt able @rancid bobcat
fleet whale
you don't have to follow them to a T, they should serve as a guide
limber tinsel
highest i've gotten is 250% haste and I didn't get it
thin gate
garrote rupture garrote multilate rupture is the thing i guess
into vendetta exsang multilate multilate bote envenom
thin gate
yh
limber tinsel
why double rupture
limber tinsel
ah
is it worth running 6 cp over vigor
actually
with the haste
you will have so much
energy
thin gate
on TB ?
maybe with twisted knives
not sure
if u go 3 x dd 2 x twisted knives 1 x ss
wait i can try to sim it
with my high haste build and tell u
last crown
how should i be getting this sim up? droptimizer is showing virtually no upgrades anywhere other than deep mythic nya
drifting cloud
you have vop minor and 1 socket with an 80 agi in it lol
last crown
vop minor was for visions, i run iris usually, and the 80 agi is being swapped but isnt gonna bring this up any noticeable amount
visual pawn
Torment + vita charged good trink combo for m+s? only doing 15s as highest
drifting cloud
and I dont know how heroic raden helm compares to vendor ones
patent topaz
more expedient, better azerite
drifting cloud
and you probably dont even sim higher with exsang than tb
patent topaz
and sockets
drifting cloud
youre just fortcing the build, your gear isnt that great
last crown
i do
patent topaz
each socket is 500 dps
last crown
i sim much higher with exsang
prime void
@visual pawn it’s a fine combo
last crown
which azerites am i missing that will make a diff? other than the raden and cara
rancid bobcat
there are only 3 azerite slots man
wet ruin
so they removed the pad on carapace and n'zoth from the logs
cobalt pelican
hit him hard
serene sierra
clownholdt
if ud ont have the dmage bring him down 20% at a time and kill the pigs
one by one
cobalt pelican
you woulda killed him here by just hitting him even idk why you're running in circles and shit
the only purple garbage that even spawns
spawns from you moving??
and the fear affix once every like 45 seconds
p sure you'd kill him if you just hit him from the start to the end
drifting cloud
yeah lust and get the hp regen food
well timed cloak and youre good
for super safe strats you can kill 1-2 pigs and hope the thing procs
but with decent azerite assa just melts the mini bosses
you want ss/np
rancid bobcat
i dont think its his azerite that's the problem tbh
if you cant burst him down fully just deal with some of the pigs
if you're leatherworking get the free lust item
just kill them all
or blind the last
viscid gorge
You're just tunneling him too much, kill the boars first ez clap
prime void
What’s the free LW thing kaite?
fleet whale
i think i 5 masked org when i was 460 ilvl, and i never damage the boars
other than with BoTE i guess
viscid gorge
Just play it safe and kill the boars as they come out. You dont have the burst to ignore them.
prime void
As was said before, cloak timing is really all that matters
If you want to ignore
Play bursty trinkets
And it’s free
fleet whale
don't use master poisoner
unless if you were just pvping
ahh ok, for rex and visions in general use elaborate
quartz depot
you're also not taking advantage of your shrouded suffocation traits
in the clip at least
lots of damage lost there
lone junco
@slender badger yah, I kill the pets one at a time and he dies fine.
i use breath major in visions.
strange python
I got Cara dagger and 475 dagger from weekly chest. I see different people putting different enchants on each weapon. What are the best ones in general I could use?
for raids
rancid bobcat
slender trail
anyone have a sev3 build for m+ i can check out? i see lots of exp3 lins floating around but those seem to be raid focused.
prime void
Fort or tyran
slender trail
fort
slender trail
k thanks. did strikethrough already go through the rotation?
cyan bone
xo
slender trail
damn, ok thanks for the info
prime void
Chat filter ?
cyan bone
Well what I wanted to say is I wanna play sin in m+ and I wanted to ask how good it performs compared to outlaw or rather if I have to have perfect corruptions to deal damage
cyan bone
I only played outlaw in m+ 15-17 keys and I seem to be doing okayish dmg like 70k overall even tho I dont even have the right corruptions weapons and not the perfect traits
prime void
You lack gouge and defensive vanish
drifting cloud
assa is way harder to gear/play in m+ compared to otl
prime void
In 15-17s none of that matters tho
drifting cloud
but both are very good specs
with outlaw being S tier and assa like A+ or whatever
cyan bone
Okay thanks
edgy brook
Gratz dom
slender trail
grats. i got a vers buff on dmg one :p
last crown
@rancid bobcat sry got a work call. i mean, i know theres only 3 azerite slots, but my traits are right, its just the ilvls that are bad, no? that as big of an issue as it seems?
cyan bone
I got a gameplay question for assa in raids, if I crit and get 4 combopoints after a mutilate, do I muti again or 4 cp envenom?
elfin saffron
hey is there anyone here who if got time could look at my log to see if im doing something complet wrong?
prime void
Env granted you aren’t DS
tropic ocean
@cyan bone env 4
cyan bone
okay thx
grizzled trail
prime void
whoops
rancid bobcat
destroyed
late tusk
hello guys
I sim myself before asking and im doing 48DPS (raid) but im lvl 470
i think its because of corrups... what should i go for?
lost wharf
Haste is the most universal thing as Assa I would say.
royal lantern
stack expedient
manic anvil
hey, so this is my dps, and I'd like to know whether its good, bad, etc. I would appreciate suggestions and advice on increasing my dps 🙂 https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4z48BkSABXPukPqaHNU9gN
rancid bobcat
more sockets better azerite better corruption
rancid bobcat
you have a 450 azerite piece
you have only 1 socket
you need to keep catching up on your cloak so you can use more corruption
manic anvil
which corruption stack expedient maybe?
rancid bobcat
yes ideally
prime void
All of them?
prime void
Mplus or?
rancid bobcat
twisted appendage is ok, masterful/severe/strikethrough is ok, gushing wound is ok, honed mind/racing pulse is ok
but you save echos for when expedient comes up in the vendor
and just use whatever you get
manic anvil
perfect, last question, the dps I should be aiming for?
manic anvil
on average, 80, 90, etc
prime void
Depends on too many circumstances.
rancid bobcat
thats not really a real question
strange python
which corruption stack expedient maybe?
@manic anvil so only expedient for m+/raid?
rancid bobcat
the dps you should aim for is whatever your gear maxes out at
manic anvil
@manic anvil so only expedient for m+/raid?
@strange python i guess since assas prioritizes haste
ill try to aim for 85-90k
how much do ur rogues sim
generally
manic anvil
holy shit...ok
rancid bobcat
manic anvil
u play a lot
rancid bobcat
i do
strange python
and i wanna die
lol
im just shit i guess
when in raid i just dont do nothing at all
any tips?
strange python
ofc my dps wont be like the simmed one
fringe socket
what % of crit do we want ideally
strange python
im just fukin weak or idk
tropic ocean
maybe you jsut do somethnig wrong
prime void
@civic palm there’s another one 👀
tropic ocean
theres lots of youtube videos or twitch channels of high ranked rogues where u can just check boss by boss gameplay
and see what they do
tropic ocean
you shouldnt worry about logs at this point of gear
but rather find your gameplay mistakes and fix them
(which usually can be done by looking at your logs)
civic palm
@prime void That's another you, not another me. 
tropic ocean
@strange python you overcap a lot of combopoints with mutilate
you refresh garrote to early (outside of pandemic) losing effective dot uptime
you drop rupture from boss frequently
leaden lichen
Wouldnt hurt to grab a little bit more corruption and r3 essences @strange python
strange python
Wouldnt hurt to grab a little bit more corruption and r3 essences @strange python
@leaden lichen im on, it im farming my r3
strange python
@tropic ocean ye that was a mistake
leaden lichen
4k dps just from essences and talents
tropic ocean
10s of doing nothing
not sure what you're doing here
but thats at least 6 wasted combo points
strange python
what boss is that?
strange python
I'm new to sin
strange python
so yeah but thats for pointing these stuff out
tropic ocean
so make sure you follow the rotation at all times
should be your biggest upgrade currently
besides general gearing
fluid pagoda
do I use vendetta before rupture and envenom? etc
tropic ocean
strange python
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/u8mfRaQBDTBp7PBDoKYZPK
@leaden lichen Stratagem, and condensed? I mean i was simming my azerite powers and i got these out
warm sparrow
Is there a M+ DPS guide though aside from that raid one?
sterile ocean
am i wanting expident or stars?
red bloom
Expedient
warm sparrow
For M+ AoE Openers that's in the Pins do we do that always or only with Echoing Blades traits?
fleet copper
So with the release of get whatever corruption you want, Rogues are now right down the list of dmg dealers hey
prime void
Huh
fluid pagoda
@tropic ocean so only after bleeds? I just want to be sure
summer cedar
Why are people running CT on single target fights?
white wyvern
With high enough haste it is better on ST than PB.
summer cedar
Maintain the dot or just use it during Exsang?
fluid pagoda
talking to me?
summer cedar
Talking about CT uptime, would you maintain the dot 100% or only use it during Exsang
grim trellis
@tropic ocean how are you seeing his log/rotation like that? is that WarcraftLogs or another website
fluid pagoda
I'm not knowledgeable enough to know, I asked a question and they just referred me to the guide, but I'm still unsatisfied with my question
summer cedar
Looks like wowanalyzer @grim trellis
grim trellis
thank you
summer cedar
@fluid pagoda in the opener, Rupture before Vendetta then envemon
lone junco
@fluid pagoda the openers are all listed in the guide, and change based on traits or talents.
if that is not enough information for you, then use vendetta whenever it feels right.
tropic ocean
@grim trellis wowanalyzer
prime void
“Whenever it feels right” 😂😂😂
lavish brook
How up-to-date is the ravenholdt guide?
lean wing
isnt vision of perfection minor better than conflict of strife ? it may sim lower but cooldown for vendeta is nuts
digital shore
Hey guys, I remember there being an overview of all the azerite pieces from the azerite vendor? Does anyone have that link?
lean wing
i stalk alot of good assa wear this
hollow robin
Sim question. I just did a top gear to see if its worth replacing my GW now that the nerf went thru, but the tooltip on raidbots still has the old damage. Is that a tooltip bug or is it still not implemented?
sim in question, was on nightly build
cobalt pelican
tooltips are just taken from wowhead, don't pay any attention to them
summer cedar
Is there a reason Raz's sim is 3 minutes instead of 5?
dark crag
Is there a full st fight that is longer than 3 min?
serene sierra
if u consider ilgynoth st then yes
lone junco
isnt that the 24s mage fight?
rancid bobcat
Shadhar is only under 3 min for a very small population of people
grim trellis
seeing some top rogues on WL taking Formless Void for HC Wrathion. anyone know what they're replicating with it
drifting cloud
does he just copy clf because the minor is better than clf minor or something
loud light
if you're only getting one use out of your major then it's probably CLF, but yeah just see what they cast
cobalt pelican
ya
the top logs on heroic are all just clown out epig parse runs
so the fight is like 20 seconds and they just formless void clf for the minor
scarlet sequoia
heroic logs 
prime void
Some of us are heroic raiders alright raz
loud light
it's like speed running classic raids
scarlet sequoia
heroic raiders
loud light
(now let me go hide from the classic people)
cobalt pelican
elitism smh
fleet whale
LFR is more difficult than mythic
vital haven
lfr last boss of a tier is the hardest thing in wow
grave eagle
i got the mechagon rings but its 8k dps loss..
grave eagle
attack behind and haste
rancid bobcat
depends on what hes replacing
rancid bobcat
possibly replacing corruption and sockets
grave eagle
yea
vital haven
hmm ye i can see that actually
rancid bobcat
or just did something wrong
rancid bobcat
it'd be nice if any sim questions were required to have the sim linked as well
but nope not a rule
grave eagle
yea sorry was putting it in 1 link
vital haven
just hold on to them @grave eagle
drifting cloud
you go below 25, mystery solved
grave eagle
oh
grave eagle
sorry haha im dumb sometimes
so 1k now but will be better once expediant comes back
lavish brook
Hey mates. How can I find out which traits are best for me? I'm looking for single target raids and have about 470 ilvl, and I have 1 expedient-3 and some mind-flays. I'm seeing top raiders using HoD, but I guess thats because they have so many expedients. I'm inspecting rogues and seeing a wide spread of traits. Any suggestions?
drifting cloud
this sim doesnt have enchants on them
vital haven
if you have the azerite pieces you can sim them @lavish brook
lavish brook
I've got some trophies and 5k residuum, dont know what to gamble for
vital haven
or you can go website like herodamage.com or bloodmallet.com to get an overview of how traits stack up to one another
also on raidbots there is a section called droptimizer where you can see what are the best azerite pieces to go fro from the vendor
lavish brook
Okay, thats cool! I'll check those out!
Quick question too, are engineering 480 goggles any good?
vital haven
they are good especially as a quick 480 piece
rancid bobcat
they're ok but you will replace them with better eventually
vital haven
^
lavish brook
Okay cool, I think im gonna residuum a helmet then. Thanks!
Thanks again everyone!
oo nvm, are the residuum helmets kind-of trash?
for ST
idle nova
when you exsang opener with CT do you only CT if you get 5CP after first mut?
vital haven
no
vital haven
its the crit one
lavish brook
Swirlding Sands
vital haven
sands or we
lavish brook
Ahh
vital haven
has anyone raided with CT
how annoying is it
0.5% better than PB on my sims
wanna gauge if its worth
cobalt pelican
it's very
fine
the most annoying part is finding a place for a weakaura if you're a
tropic ocean
played ct in reclear
idle nova
@cobalt pelican in the opener do you only CT if you get 5CP instead of 6 after the first mut?
cobalt pelican
that's what the apl does currently yes
idle nova
otherwise 6cp rupt and exsang then just CT after ye?
cobalt pelican
i personally don't do that but that's because i find it hard to memorize flow charts for cp usage in the opener and the difference is like
tiny
idle nova
ah
cobalt pelican
yeah that's what it does
idle nova
without CT so you mut again for 6cp if you only get 5?
do you*
i'd been just rupturing with 5 if i get it
tropic ocean
@vital haven + difference will be way more in fights like hive raden ilgynoth cara nzoth skitra
vital haven
ok ty
eager delta
Skitra?
eager delta
just for the psyche?
tropic ocean
clones too
eager delta
oh ok
eager delta
hm fair enough
eager delta
Yeah xan and vex or something i can see
cobalt pelican
you're supposed to go to 6 @idle nova
tropic ocean
Basically all fights almost
tropic ocean
y
idle nova
@cobalt pelican thx :^)
fleet anchor
@vital haven I've found it being fine to keep up, I don't really mind it at all
wise bear
how do you play exsanguinate
fleet anchor
I also need to figure out the target threshold where it's better to spam CT than use Envenom at all
wise bear
it feels week
wise bear
i know im doing alot of wrong things but
cobalt pelican
i also would like to know that
wise bear
i dunno
vital haven
ok
vital haven
its CT time then
cobalt pelican
the number is prolly way lower than that
cobalt pelican
i've just removed elaborate planning from my weakauras and put ct in its place
idle nova
cobalt pelican
fug it
mine either now
brm slave for the tier rerolled prot paladin
just as i'm getting geared
sad times
drifting cloud
I mean that shit was beyond degen
fleet anchor
My Average CT cast on the Skitterer trash in front of Hivemind was 178k direct damage per cast 🤣
drifting cloud
more than r43263 it paladins
fleet anchor
But yeah I will test this after raid and figure out the number
Probably gonna be an absolute number and also a lower number + keep Envenom up
I would suspect
cobalt pelican
mm
it's like what 3.5k~ cast damage per target
or is it more than that
oh like 5.5k
dam huge
i didn't even know that was a thing
rancid bobcat
:parry:
arctic walrus
cobalt pelican
does it only parry the bleed on the main target and the rest still get it i guess
vital haven
eww parry
lime edge
what do u guys think would be the least gear reliant dps
cobalt pelican
probably the one that scales the worst, so ww? but you'd just do dog damage always
all specs need gear basically, just some specs like fire need very specific gear
static glacier
depends on what you're facing / how you play
I'm fairly sure that optimising low gear could end up with some real janky setups with meme tier talents when considered at current gear
eager delta
yeah basically what fairy said, depends on what you mean by gear reliant, everything relys on gear, just some specs need specific pieces to shine, id probs say something like warlock or hunter because they dont really rely on that much specific stuff outside of azerite gear
maybe something like warrior as well
but all of those still need specific corruptions and stuff so idk
static glacier
BM consistently top 3 for low lvl on wcl parses for sub 450 ilvl
fleet anchor
BM is super fast to gear
static glacier
BM's baseline is pretty strong, just because it happens to scale well doesn't mean it's not ahead at low gear, though this whole conjencture could be getting fooled by BM being easy and the only people logging low ilvl would be new / weaker players?
honestly, just play what you want, caring about low ilvl dps isn't worthwhile since you'll gear up, caring about how a spec performs at 460+ is more reasonable.
fleet anchor
They have the option of going for a pet-dps build without Killer Cobra early as well as using Reaping Flames for large damage before VoP is good
eager delta
link?
shut pollen
is it even worth to socket the 120 agi gem at really hight item lv?
cobalt pelican
eager delta
sim it
cobalt pelican
i've not done my vision yet hence the 60
static glacier
imagine it with double mythic carapace daggers 
drifting cosmos
yea 50 is easy
eager delta
its not really some exact number
drifting cosmos
id think higher but not sure if its close to 60
eager delta
(:
rancid bobcat
yeah haha
static glacier
:l i've really not been playing much wow recently, think I burned out
cobalt pelican
i actually bought a spare expedient 1 just incase i loot tomorrow :)
desert orchid
so has basically everyone swapped over to haste and exsang now? or that just for single target? All the sims I see appear to be using that
fleet whale
not everyone has, but it does sim the highest for most people
vital haven
so anyways I STARTED BLASTING
fast nacelle
120k dps on skittrah with only 6.7% mindflay
cant wait to get rid off this bullshit
fleet whale
hmm i see yeah that sucks
fast nacelle
i'd rather have 3x more expedient
fleet whale
but i had a kill where mindflay was like 1% of my damage
fast nacelle
or mech rings... so exhausting to keep up if rogue was your alt all content long
had 1 mindflay on wrathion, 1 on skittrah, 1 on maut
2 on xanesh
fleet whale
at least from my experience, since i had to wear one rank 2 mind flay and one rank 2 IS, cause it's what i had
i found IS to be far more consistent even if hitting random stuff
fast nacelle
if i had the choice id also take is over mindflay
i feel like it works better with expedient
but thats just feelycrafterino
probably just personal experience
is procs pretty decent for saryero though
fleet whale
even with most st fights with some adds IE maut
desert orchid
so I should hold out until expedient drops again on the vendor and not go with the r3 strikethrough
fleet whale
i find that the boss eats a high majority of IS hits
fast nacelle
im gonna save all for expedient 3 at least
depends what you are doing
i got like rank 7 severe and rank 5 strike already
for m+/outlaw so
no reason to not just wait
desert orchid
mainly m+
desert orchid
so just go for the strikethrough then?
fast nacelle
im mostly raiding with my rogue thats why expedient is the most valueable
its a mix of strike and severe
desert orchid
I wish I was, but bastards don't want to try mythic on this server and they ditched as soon as we carried them through 1 heroic clear
really never cared for exang build anyway either
fast nacelle
you dont need to in m+ i guess
however i like it. its big blast for bosses and big mobs
tb is fine though
desert orchid
crit one wasn't right? and it was going for deeper strat?
fast nacelle
i play a mix of expedient severe strike and a lot of crit equipment
and ds + exang but i do only viewer keys
like 15-18ish
and mostly play outlaw
fast nacelle
its not that bad. with the vendor you can run double lash and some severe + strike and you keep 4 buffs iirc for aoe
so its not that bad
i think you can keep crit (eventhough its not that great without ace stacking) grand melee, tb and obviously broadsides
could be worse really.. also not being reliant on td procs aint that bad neither
desert orchid
still hate they butchered sub
desert orchid
was good til they gutted it this expac too
fast nacelle
i mean assa aint bad aswell but for m+ assa is so bad cause you need to restealth
you cant go quick pulls
unless you like 0 dps
desert orchid
still can't believe they gutted it that bad and it hasn't received any attention