Instead of wasting CP
#assassination
scarlet sequoia
aight so its good to do the 5 cp ct if mutilate doesnt give u 3+?
fleet anchor
yeah looks like it
bleak spoke
so regardless your global after that muti is ct then?
fleet anchor
Or you can probably 5CP Rupture too
If that is simpler
They both seem about the same
bleak spoke
so like garrote rupture garrote vendetta muti CT mutis to rupture exsang?
but if it's weird feeling instead of ct we just hit rupture exsang and ct after?
and either way we do it we're barely punished
is there an advantage to exsanging later because of the clf guardian stacking btw
or by the earliest exsang moment it's up and running in full?
or is it just a wash either way
fleet anchor
Has been a wash from what I have seen so far
bleak spoke
(i'm assuming that you do like prepull guardian here)
cuz i can't imagine there's a good global to cast it on
and it probably lives the duration of uh
the vanish garrote set
crimson palm
and it's a loss if you 6cp CT there?
scarlet sequoia
idk using clf is mega bait
bleak spoke
the few times i've tried it it's been awful for me but i think might be misplay
scarlet sequoia
anyways what u said
no
if u do a quick sim and check
it will do ct if u are at 5 cp after the mutilate
and rupture if its at 6
bleak spoke
does it delay exsang for ct cast or
crimson palm
since i'll probably autopilot ct sometimes
scarlet sequoia
no it doesnt delay exsang
bleak spoke
okay
fleet anchor
Not sure why you think CLF is bait though Raz
fleet anchor
I honestly have found no condition where it is worse
bleak spoke
probably the specific fight timers this tier koji
bleak spoke
if it is bugged then that's pretty awful though
fleet anchor
Bugs I could see maybe but when I checked this week the casts were still roughly in the range I'd expect
bleak spoke
what exactly is bugged about it raz
fleet anchor
Like it didn't actually lose nearly as many as I expected
warm parcel
My full EP clear had casts how it was supposed to aswell
scarlet sequoia
tldr u can play both it doesnt really matter
fleet anchor
And mostly just averaged out
bleak spoke
oh so it randomly decides to be shit
fleet anchor
Honestly CLF should be enough better than Blood that losing a couple casts shouldn't matter though
bleak spoke
is it acquiring vita buffs/vop buffs for the extra casts koji
cuz i can see that sort of thing happening
fleet anchor
Like all the Blood logs I looked at with Exsang
Were not good
And gaining far less damage than CLF would give
Based on other CLF logs
scarlet sequoia
im just basing my opinion on my own results
obviously clf is good
maybe i had better rng with blood so thats why it felt better
hard to say
fleet anchor
I still think Blood is mostly placebo 😛
bleak spoke
tbh so many procs are rng based
and obviously for us whether or not you actually crit is like
even with bote active it's still rng
fleet anchor
But I did want to mention that the fight length issue isn't really a big reason to avoid CLF
CLF even in the worst case
of 2 minutes and 59 second pulls
Is still good 😛
bleak spoke
like if we randomly get a huge amount of tradewinds buffs or everyone's vop goes on us or the group's vitas go nuts
then we get like 10 sockets worth of stats
to say nothing of like blightborne
or something like that
fleet anchor
Regarding Vita question
Pets do get Vita buff in the group but I think some pet classes checked this a few weeks ago when I pointed it out
And found it didn't actually do anything
wet ruin
about the opener conversation delaying exsang to cast CT and losing garrote ticks feels so wrong
fleet anchor
e.g. they didn't double dip from having the buff
They just inherit your haste directly
I mean you don't really lose Garrote ticks though
bleak spoke
you don't lose garrote ticks
fleet anchor
It's the same number of ticks
bleak spoke
cuz you still have the haste you do when you cast the exsang generally
wet ruin
I mean, yea you don't lose them
fleet anchor
You might lose 1 unempowered Garrote tick at the end of Vendetta
Potentially
And gain CT ticks
So it's just a wash
glad compass
so it doesnt matter if i garrote rupture garrote vendetta muti cp (5 or 6 combo points) ?
wet ruin
I meant you lose them for exsang
bleak spoke
yeah there's no way it's not a wash right
fleet anchor
Garrote vs. CT ticks are not really that different
bleak spoke
the exsang is only important at that moment if your haste is significantly higher than a later moment i think
wet ruin
is CT ticks remotely close to garrote though
crimson palm
you won't lose exsan ticks in vendetta
wet ruin
wait really
fleet anchor
CT is like 9% AP ticks and Garrote is 12% or something
bleak spoke
you're essentially reordering your damage into a specific moment
where you have more stats
wet ruin
yea, but those garrotes are empowered
fleet anchor
You always get the same number of empowered ones within Vendetta
bleak spoke
you still have the same total number of ticks
fleet anchor
It was pretty close yes.. I tested both 4, 5, and 6 CP CTs and it seemed like 5+ had a very very slight edge
fleet anchor
But it was within like.. 0.1%
crimson palm
guess depending on the situation
bleak spoke
is it still okay to refresh rupture at 3 if it's going to fall off entirely koji
i recall it was dps neutral in bod
but never asked about it
since then
warm parcel
If you wanna true minmax exsang
you 3cp rup once inbetween exsangs
as that lines up the pandemic so you dont waste rupture
fleet anchor
Actually it's even less
bleak spoke
and you never take a 4 pointer or something
bleak spoke
oh
sick
i've just done that
was afraid it was wrong
but not having rutpure up just feels so hecking awful
fleet anchor
Rupture doesn't gain damage from CP it just gains duration
bleak spoke
yeh
fleet anchor
And we don't care about energy efficiency in this build
fleet anchor
We care about DoT uptime
warm parcel
well its not efficiency we talking
fleet anchor
And CP efficiency
warm parcel
its just wasted mutilate cps on rup that could go towards envenom
fleet anchor
Well it's not wasted CPs though because the CP efficiency for 2CP Rupture and 6CP rupture is not worse
It's actually better
It's only wasted energy
warm parcel
Think we talking about 2 different things now
When exsang falls off
You can do 3cp into 5 into 6 and have a max duration rupture for the exsang without wasting any rupture uptime
So that 3cp rup you cast gives you 2+ free cps to use on env instead of rup
cold apex
Hi guys, i got a general question regarding bleeds. Imagine if i have bleeds up on a target and get a vers proc, do the bleeds than tick with the amplified vers or are only new bleeds affected by this buff ? I have arena in mind here. @fleet anchor
warm parcel
That would just be cut by that last 6cp rup anyway
glad compass
@fleet anchor im sorry but what is the correct opener now with crimson tempest?
fleet anchor
Yeah that's a slightly different case Weak. I was mostly just explaining why it's not really a loss to just toss up any-CP Rupture when Rupture falls off completely.
warm parcel
I get that
bleak spoke
yeah it's just rotational efficiency kinda right
warm parcel
I mean unless someone can tell me Im stupid
Youre literally just getting more cps
Aka free dmg
fleet anchor
It is such a strange world that somehow Assassination becomes not caring that much about Energy 😛
After the start of this xpac
with 40% downtime
wet ruin
koji did you have time to look at the formless void major
fleet anchor
No, I've had to spend a lot of time on this APL work and some other related things
cobalt pelican
double bote vs single clf for me added up to be basically the same damage before considering the 10% haste for 25 sec or 25% crit chance for 10 sec(x2) on most of my own personal logs checked
i did only check like 3 fights though cause it was late and my head hurt
fleet anchor
Yeah
That was about what conclusion I reached looking at logs
Provided you don't lose too many CLF casts I guess. But I need to look into that some more. I want to figure out it there is a better way to get him to cooperate lol
warm parcel
Ive not seen him afk yet
crimson palm
well most fights are ❤️ min now
fleet anchor
It's possible the pre-combat cast actually isn't a gain in practice if it means he takes longer to get his shit together and start doing something lol
crimson palm
< 3 * lel
warm parcel
Just that sometimes I get way more extra casts due to all the haste procs
And I never use it precombat
I dont see that ever being practical
fleet anchor
I just macro him into stealth at 1 on the timer
Which works fine
But it does anecdotally seem like he takes longer to start casting
From a pre-cast vs. mid-combat cast
I'm going to do some more controlled testing today or tomorrow
crimson palm
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9t7a6KNXgHhCqrmp#fight=44&type=damage-done&source=16&start=9142663&end=9194635 he starts casting 3s into the fight here
cobalt pelican
i think it's the case tbh
my own end decision was
only precombat in fights where i'm expecting it to end during 2nd clf being up
warm parcel
When I was just afk beating dummy, it started casting the moment I hit heart essence
And casted about as many times as it should
fleet anchor
The precombat change was only a small gain so it's possible if that causes him to wig out
warm parcel
And at my haste levels it ended up being around 21 each
fleet anchor
It's worth moving it back over
crimson palm
btw is it me only, https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6L7cEzVYmzmyu7Bm4m3odT or is bote minor outsimming void?
warm parcel
Yeah Imo the prepull isnt practical
fleet anchor
But Hemo
He did start casting sooner
That was just the finish
00:00:01.615 Guardian of Azeroth 1 (Hemotherapy) begins casting Azerite Spike
00:00:03.107 Guardian of Azeroth 1 (Hemotherapy) casts Azerite Spike on Dark Inquisitor Xanesh
is there an easy way to map out average cast time/cast intervals from logs
or would it come down to cvs file and some python
wet ruin
are the attacks hasted
fleet anchor
Probably would need to use the API and some python yeah
warm parcel
meh
fleet anchor
Just ask Mystler
warm parcel
😄
fleet anchor
He loves doing that for me 😄
He wrote some log scraping thingy
To test TA proc rate
And some other stuff
RtB I think
warm parcel
Cause when I went thru the cast times manually, I didnt find anything out of the ordinary
Just that sometimes I would get to the almost gcdcap cast time when I got good haste procs
We just dont have DH levels of haste all the time
fleet anchor
I will say it's a bit strange that the pet seems to like run up to targets for me sometimes
Instead of just casting
Even though it has 40y range on the spell
But not really common enough to worry about
wet ruin
is he affected by lust?
fleet anchor
Should just inherit your haste like other pets afaik
The base cast time is 2.5s
So like Hemo above had a ~1.5s cast
wet ruin
I mean about the lost casts since sometimes people lust just before combat and maybe if you are out of combat could be that its not getting lust or something, but if he gains your haste then it doesn't really matter
fleet anchor
I think mostly what I've seen is that sometimes he idles a little bit at the start of combat
I haven't really seen the cast stalling since the hotfix when they fixed the GCD with it
It used to hit the GCD with high levels of haste
But they hotfixed it to 0.5s or something
warm parcel
I didnt mean stalling
I just assumed its cast capped at .75s
Like they do for players
fleet anchor
The CT rotation is basically the same, you just use CT instead of Envenom sometimes 😛
warm parcel
this but envenom and ct @rancid bobcat
cobalt pelican
now we just need
to somehow wrangle
eb fok into the st rotation
and we'll be better than outlaw at everything
[evil cackles]
fleet anchor
Go away
I'm not doing any more APL work today!
Except maybe looking at this suggested GCB change
I spent enough hours on this crap the last two days 😛
cobalt pelican
it's appreciated :}
patent topaz
I have a 465 GCB but no plumage, make gcb great again
lime edge
what do i use to sim for exsang
fleet anchor
I do actually think though that the 3xSS+HoD/Generic setup + CT is probably really close to the normal AoE damage of EB unless it's very large pulls
lime edge
and am debating buying another exped 2, hmm
fleet anchor
Probably over a full dungeon it may be the same or better
Obviously the boss damage will be a lot higher
I don't think there's really any way for EB to be valuable in ST unfortunately
I looked into this a bit when I was feeling creative and wanted to try a build using slappers and avoiding things that actually needed daggers 🤣
But I couldn't really find a way to make it not suck on ST
But it did perform pretty well on AoE as you'd expect lol
strange python
It's beautiful
crimson palm
the best thing is none of my guildies will believe its a st increase
and think im just padding 
lime edge
hey hey
cobalt pelican
fit this shit into my weakauras
lime edge
fairy boy
rancid bobcat
is there a true opener yet
lime edge
what do u think about about buying another exped 2 (already bought 1)
patent topaz
cobalt pelican
my opinion is still buy as many expedient 2s as you need to have good gear today
you have 2+ weeks to get echoes for expedient 3
patent topaz
ct is 200 dps decrease according to nightly still
lime edge
gonna need a lot of expeds 3 tho
cobalt pelican
but instead of envenoming
lime edge
no?
lime edge
this is what i have rn
rancid bobcat
o
cobalt pelican
the amount of 3s you need only goes up by 1 like once a month
lime edge
i simmed myself cleansing the racing pulse 1
cobalt pelican
yes the '''bis''' list has a lot of 3s
rancid bobcat
so you don't exang CT
cobalt pelican
but if you're aiming for bis rn you're basically doing it wrong unless you're close already (like raz is)
lime edge
true
honeslty
i just have to upgrae my cloak
probably my biggest dps increase by far
my brain is small
long portal
Really just depends on your current gear and current prog needs.
there isn't a right answer on buying exped2 atm. I got one, but am waiting for Exped3 to come back for the rest
r2 being 4100 and r3 being 5k makes me way more inclined to just wait 2 weeks /shrug
boreal maple
in the end we need 7x r3s and 1xr2 and a honedmind right?
fleet anchor
@crimson palm lol just embrace it
fleet anchor
"LOL beating you in ST with an AoE spec"
boreal maple
guess no point in buying honed this week since we dosnt use it til the very end
long portal
"need" all depends on how much corruption you feel like running, but yeah point taken
crimson palm
that was my plan lmao
fleet anchor
Yeah I wasn't able to get it to work either
lime edge
no one is
fleet anchor
It would depend on how much gear Mastery you have
If you were really low on gear Mastery
I could see it
boreal maple
i get 1.4k dps difference from 9x ecpedients vs the other
long portal
You can sim corruption you dont have shax..
warm parcel
of course honed mind r3 wins expedient r3
lime edge
are u simming counting the 125 res from cape
warm parcel
thats 35 vs 20 corruption
lime edge
in 4 months
warm parcel
please
lime edge
lol
fleet anchor
At that point we'll just sim what gear we have
And see which out of Honed/Racing/Void Ritual is better
boreal maple
yes thats what im saying?
fleet anchor
But they are really close anyway
fleet anchor
So probably not worth buying specifically
lime edge
i got a honed from mythic weekly anyways
fleet anchor
Filler can be whatever at that point
cobalt pelican
i think voidritual/honed mind are likely to be viable
i don't see racing pulse like
idk
boreal maple
fleet anchor
RP is fine, it just depends on your stats
cobalt pelican
i just find it v unlikely that going that heavy on expedient
you aren't lacking somewhere else
sadly deadly momentum
sucks the pp
fleet anchor
@boreal maple I would check Void Ritual also fwiw
boreal maple
checking that real quick
fleet anchor
It was actually what came very slightly ahead for me when testing with Raz's profile
twin bay
is there a big diffrence between the "attack from behind" and "3 diffrent spell" mechagon ring? im mean last phase nzotto u cant attack from behind
glacial steppe
fleet anchor
afaik both of them basically proc all the time
3 different spell can proc from a bunch of non-casted proc spells I believe
lime edge
like double dose?
boreal maple
VR 800 dps behind honedmind with allies on 
lime edge
oh rip
cobalt pelican
get division if you can
lime edge
my biggest prio rn is getting those mechagon rings
cobalt pelican
real world uptimes for me are like 97% with division and like 60% with 3spells
lime edge
for sure
lime edge
im 99% sure exsang would sim better for me if i had those rings
patent topaz
its 170 haste, not that huge
lime edge
for me its pretty big
twin bay
with 62728289393% on top yeah.
boreal maple
?? that is pretty big
boreal maple
170 is alot of dps
thats over 3 sockets
i would call that pretty huge
especially if he has 445 rings
hazy flame
do I overwrite exang empowered garrote when I vanish garrote in opener?
fleet anchor
170 Haste is quite a lot at this point
crimson palm
do I overwrite exang empowered garrote when I vanish garrote in opener?
@hazy flame no lol
hazy flame
it wasnt a question if i refresh or not I just ment in generell I do kill the exang empowered garrote when I would do that right?
hazy flame
because Blizzard are gambling addicts
magic fossil
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qWyUvjMtE9aWK94KTx5eUN, guys for nzoth prog, since tb and exanguinate simc the same, which one is better for that encounter?
magic fossil
great! thanks @boreal maple
boreal maple
SS and exsang can be usefull if u lack phycus/harvester dmg
which u prob wont
but if we just talking boss dmg it should pretty equal for u
lime edge
exsang is cooler
twin bay
thats true especially at the end of the fight where u run from on soak to the other
one*
crimson palm
no its not
boreal maple
yes it is
twin bay
i like it more*
crimson palm
sure, post a log then
boreal maple
look at boss dmg this week
DD is not bad
but SS/exsang wins overall cos its realyl good on phycus/harvesters
crimson palm
do u realize what u just linked?
fleet anchor
This build has a lot of energy
crimson palm
it's ass on nzoth
boreal maple
?
what did i link
what u mean
u just think DD is bad cos u cant hit 100% which is not true
crimson palm
ill end this discussion here as u have no clue what ur talking about
fleet whale
i have a macro that changes the exsang icon
fleet anchor
I mean you are probably pointing out that the SS setups aren't running DD but I don't think that changes the fact that DD still has value. Like if you don't have anything else, DD and SS are roughly the same for high Haste builds. It's kinda whatever outside of cleave.
I would prefer to run SS for flexibility but it actually doesn't make too much difference
For boss damage
boreal maple
yea thats what i said.
faint harness
@crimson palm i think you're barking up the wrong tree here mate
boreal maple
that they are pretty equal on znoth
crimson palm
there's 0 chance ur getting more value from dd on the fight
fleet anchor
Personally I'm running 3x SS because I happen to have the right pieces for it but like the 2x SS/1x DD gearsets are actually gonna do mostly the same thing
fleet whale
what if you run SS with DD
fleet anchor
This build casts a lot of Mutilates
fleet whale
like there are pieces with both
fleet anchor
Because of so much energy
crimson palm
u have 4 dmg windows on nzoth
dd wont do shit on those
all ur dmg comes from the vendetta window
void pecan
Am I reading this convo right? Exang CT single target viable soon™?
fleet whale
you need to be very geared to use it
and it's getting a lot of hype here but most people aren't going to run it i imagine
hushed lion
it feels really shit to use ST
void pecan
At that point, I'd probably run it to not be bored.
boreal maple
nah but it evens out over the fight. @crimson palm u can literally check logs.
crimson palm
we were talking boss dmg
boreal maple
yes
crimson palm
sure its better on tendies and stuff
but ur never going to get better value on boss
fleet whale
wow, a 90 dps increase
crimson palm
maybe if u get priority on evoke drops and the mindgrasp is always near boss
frozen karma
Insane
hushed lion
for a gcd
fleet whale
but yeah, the difference is probably not gonna be that large even when you have everything for this CT build to be the best
hushed lion
fleet whale
so I think some people will run it but i think like 95% of people will stick to PB
fleet anchor
I mean
If it's equal to PB in ST
It's basically just flat better
On almost every fight
faint harness
Let em be inefficient if they want
fleet anchor
Because CT is better on cleave than PB
hushed lion
well yes, it gives more consistent damage on 2+ mobs
fleet anchor
So it's basically just free AoE damage at that point 😄
fleet whale
tomes are cheap
they'll just respec CT for the cleave like hivemind and back to PB for ST
frozen karma
I'm never gonna run it tbh lol, unless it ends up simming much higher at some point
fleet anchor
Well the point is mostly that it becomes "not just pad" at that point
patent topaz
CT is -188 dps for me but thats basically margin of error
fleet whale
and potentially the cost of making the spec less pleasant to play for some people
chilly marsh
188 is nothing if you hit 1 add with it its prob a gain
fleet anchor
Yeah it's close enough to autopilot PB if you want
I don't mind casting CT though
Assassination is kinda boring otherwise imo 😛
twin bay
most fights arent ST anyways
fleet whale
extra buttons don't neccessarily make things more fun , but to each of their own i guess
i guess it's good to use CT now though so we can prepare for the glorious return of SnD
imagine if CT becomes the best st talent with SnD back
boreal maple
frozen karma
frozen karma
our last row is so lame and has no impact, sucks tbh
crimson palm
i still dunno how shiv + exsan is gonna feel like
grave herald
is Expi 3 > tentacle 2-3?
fleet whale
like crap
but remember that many of the things that makes exsang good now
is going away in SL
frozen karma
don't think so unless there's a legendary for it
fleet whale
alacrity might be really good too
with Master poisoner and SND, passive poison damage
frozen karma
alacrity is just filler right now afaik, it's supposed to be the upgrade from shiv to toxic blade, less cd etc
fleet whale
pretty much return to a wotlk style gameplay
shiv already has a 25 second cd on alpha
mellow pier
@grave herald per corruption yes, but unless u can fill 3 of them prob not
fleet whale
i believe TB now has a 25 second cd
frozen karma
the exsaang guide says to use honed mind, we don't use 1-2 severes anymore?
is there a sim with that build out?
twin elbow
Is the exs build for raiding or is it for Mythic+?
pliant creek
for pvp what's the best corrupts to stack?
drifting cosmos
Wrong channel
drifting cosmos
I think you just don't have enough base crit to make severe that good
Hone mind has high uptime too
void pecan
I have 1 expedient 3 in my bag for a rainy day.
tropic ocean
y
wide ridge
ty
rancid bobcat
is anyone actually gonna buy a honed mind 3? 
scarlet sequoia
yes
rancid bobcat
i dunno if i can get that many echos cause
theres actually a lot of stuff i want to buy
rancid bobcat
how many do you have tho
scarlet sequoia
30k rn
fleet anchor
Feels good to not actually have to buy any Expedient I guess 😄
scarlet sequoia
i bought 7 bro
rancid bobcat
man
fleet anchor
lol you bought 7 3s?
fleet anchor
That's some hardcore farming to get 90k even in arenas 😛
rancid bobcat
wait what was last week
rancid bobcat
i gotta buy shit for outlaw
ideally i buy 2 strikes and 1 td2
and exp 2 and honed 3
but this is all for like
super future use
loud silo
is 57% haste high?
patent topaz
I kept a 470 honed mind 3 belt
cobalt pelican
i have some 475 honed mind 3 gloves from a weekly like
2 months ago
and didn't cleanse them cause fuck it
rancid bobcat
i had to make room
cause i was holding onto a lot of shit
well, i guess it doesn't come into play for a long time anyway
surely not until it comes around again
lime edge
i got honed 3 from weekly
lime edge
too bad they are 465 and not 475
rancid bobcat
only 465 though
thin holly
I've got a 465 honed mind III dagger that I kept in my bank and I'm going back and forth on whether or not buy one from mother
tribal obsidian
hidden blades doesn't buff EB right thats considered a different attack>?
chilly marsh
honed mind is only good 2m from now no ? need more resistence
still focusing full exp i think
tribal obsidian
Yah I think its at the point where more haste wouldn't do that much so things like that and versatility become better, thats my guess anyway
dreamy aurora
healer got the mecha ring from junk yard, he got heal one from tank, doesnt wanna give me the behind one cos its funny 😄
scarlet sequoia
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
earnest kestrel
ty sir
frozen karma
@scarlet sequoia do you have the sim with the honed mind?
scarlet sequoia
scarlet sequoia
yes, it doesnt seem like its worth dropping any expedients for it
frozen karma
and even with only exp it's probly not far from it I assume?
scarlet sequoia
full out t3 expedient was like 1k worse as u can see on the sim
frozen karma
you got some scuffed legs too
scarlet sequoia
nah theyre good
frozen karma
damn, okay
scarlet sequoia
might be better if i change my gems etc but ye
im at like the haste max i think
other stats are starting to be better again
frozen karma
This is what I use right now, just trying to figure out what stats to keep on my gear
scarlet sequoia
simming is the move bro
frozen karma
Idk how to stats weight myself with like a premade set like yourself tbh
scarlet sequoia
wym
frozen karma
Like I obviously know my stats weight right now but idk how to sim myself to see what my stats will be once I got all those corruptions on
frozen karma
sort of a gear compare/stats weight all In one I guess
frozen karma
yeah It doesn't replace sadly, but I guess with some fooling around I could make it work
thanks
I just find myself lacking iterations even at 16M haha
scarlet sequoia
and increase your corruption to like 100 i think it is now
to get the bis setups
frozen karma
@mighty elm I got my second this week hehe
frozen karma
oof that's fucking rough
mighty elm
dw, i kill carapace tomorrow and loot 2
frozen karma
ofc 🙂
shut garnet
@scarlet sequoia how much does the tb build sim in comparison
is it still 1-1.5% margin
or is exang just pulling miles ahead cuz of how many expedients ur running
frozen karma
Yeah I reach way too many iterations lol, gotta gear compare it
lime edge
should i put exped on only haste pieces
even tho ik u need atleast 1 non haste piece
hmm
this piece
halp
cobalt pelican
put it on gear you won't replace
cobalt pelican
i mean
cobalt pelican
there's a better belt in the raid i think right
infact 2 probably
xanesh and ilgy are both probably better but
they'll come unsocketed
lime edge
u cant just use all haste pieces tho, right?
cobalt pelican
and you might not have access to them
lime edge
at some point 1 vers piece is more dmg
void pecan
To get rid of IS or not...
cobalt pelican
[at some point]
cobalt pelican
it's much easier to use gems/enchants/your last corruption to flex that than plan already
i mean
go for it
i think it's fine to put it on that
if it's one of your better pieces
even if you DO get a mythic belt
it'll take a while for you to have spare sockets
whatever
go for it
idle nova
tropic ocean
u cant just use all haste pieces tho, right?
@lime edge nope
Boots will be crit mastery due to ilvl
Weapon stats are fixed too
frozen karma
@scarlet sequoia this is the highest I'm reaching but I'm still almost 2k behind your sim, our stats are pretty much 1-2% difference in some areas so I'm guessing it's just neck level?
cobalt pelican
~500-600 per neck level i think
frozen karma
guess that's it then
Glad to know I can at least reach warrior currents sims in a few months
🙃
echo cargo
sick balance atm amirite
frozen karma
Meh tier has been over for a while so I'm not too upset about it
real solar
okay so what did i miss about the apl for CT
@frozen karma Isn't Raz's sim CLF, and CT
real solar
Yeah, prob just neck level then - missing 1 socket, and a bit more vers
frozen karma
the socket is in my sim 🙂
versed mica
When stacking expedients, should I be putting haste gems in my sockets, or should I do crit bc my crit only at 33%?
glacial jasper
Why does memory sit so high on herodamage
rancid bobcat
because it's good
glacial jasper
Derp
Yes, point being it’s got it listed as best for major
I realize in practice it’s not
Say for me guardian or breathe is best depending on fight
arctic walrus
because it takes into account the minor effect of the essence
like 2/3 of lucid's power lies in the minor, so you run a major that you can utilize more of, and just run lucid minor
glacial jasper
I do as well, was just curious and bored at work, so it’s high because the sim is in a vacuum. Gotcha
vast forum
also it sims with 0 corruption and a set neck lvl which is probably lower than what most ppl have already
and if i'm not mistaken, it's a TB build that's suboptimal at highest gear levels
fallen bone
at what haste % does xan pull ahead of TB?
manic harness
so SS is good for single target now? I'm confused
near coyote
If I do Nzoth and my vision for 2 upgrades, can I do another vision or will not upgrade me again until next week? My res is only 59 on my cloak
I just started recently so behind
it's still 2 a week though eh, no catchup
?
cobalt pelican
2 max per week
near coyote
thanks
hushed lion
would u still use plumage even if coral sims 1k higher?
since coral is useless on opener
i guess only on pure ST bosses and maybe nzoth for prestack
vs
Not feeling coral anymore since plumage is 14% flat damage increase
fast fog
Anyone able to take a look at this sim for me? Looking for any improvements I could make or what I could shuffle around to squeeze out more dps. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bwbpHfnpE6DEKPgzqkzP9a
arctic walrus
You are missing a socket so that’ll catch it up a little bit. And the nature of plumage just works better in nyalotha with all the cleave/target swaps
glacial jasper
Got plumage 465 2 days ago it’s a fun trinket with vendetta, ever two minutes you go redoculous mode and melt
If you could stack gale callers it would be crazy crazy fun
whole mantle
anyone have a macro for TB/exsang
whole mantle
ty 😄
strange python
where can i find the simc input for advanced sim? i want to see how much a dps loss it would be if i dont hold guardian for 2nd vendetta at the 4 min mark and use it on cd
lime edge
dslice good way to sim m+?
drifting cosmos
Not really, I just feelcraft m+
arctic walrus
stack crit/mast, 3ss/eb that's about all you can do
strange python
yes
lavish brook
When are DHs immunte to stun? And are they ever a kill target with their vers/leech?
steep obsidian
migth be a question for the pvp chan
lavish brook
thanks!
kindred temple
where is good source of info on assasination rogue in m+ ?
arctic walrus
I wouldn't personally recommend using worldvein at all, but you just lack sockets and mythic gear
strange python
you can also farm mechagon rings and a plumage
glacial jasper
Mech rings are a myth
rancid spade
mech rings 
worldly condor
okay so farm more sockets and get some more nya upgrades?
i want to work towards the exsang haste build
*this is Aynar btw, name change
arctic walrus
yeah if you're up for it you can grind out some exp 2s
or farm up and spend on 3s when they return to vendor
worldly condor
would i want to replace the mind flays with them? I have 3 rank 2's and i feel like thats alot
arctic walrus
No real data behind this but I think around exp 15+ is when you see mindflay being worth purifying to fit in more
strange python
you can use this to sim races and see how little it matters: https://pastebin.com/HZz5T6eT
last gyro
nah I believe you guys
I mean was there a point where races really mattered ? besides Jaina mythic I guess
but that was not even for dmg
tropic ocean
jaina was like 1 id until they fixed it i think
arctic walrus
races sometimes matter in very high end progression Top 10-20 world, usually for specific racials rather than dps
glacial jasper
Blood elf is queens of M+
Aoe dispell is win
Queens becuase blood elves have no male sex
arctic walrus
@sudden brook thoughts on that?
sudden brook
tropic ocean
@glacial jasper would never want to change off belf too yeah for m+
was more op in legion, but dispell is just king in many dungeons
glacial jasper
I say that also being a goblin. Becuase I like being less useful I guess
Look wise it’s hard to beat male zandalari
Being useful though BE hands down
fluid wharf
how much corruption is ok for 20+ keys?
tropic ocean
i play <60
but I see better players play 75ish so comes down to how good u play
and on class
raven mica
tropic ocean
no matter how good you are when you see drjay kite thing from beyond around rune of power while calling interrupts and blasting 500k dps into pack
you know you're shit
grave trail
So started using Exng recently why is the opener g r g vend mut rup exang as opposed to just using the bleeds first is it for the extra duration?
thin dew
am i gonna be aimin for haste/crit? or haste/mast/vers
tropic ocean
? you use bleeds first
and u use mut to build combopoints to have higher duration rupture
@thin dew 
grave trail
That's not my question lol I know but let's say something like g mut g rupture?
I dunno I feel weird using rup twice
grave trail
With deeper?
grave trail
Well only if it crits no.or am I missing something
tropic ocean
= 8 in worst case
?
with your opener you use garrote 3 cp, mut 2-4cp, garrote 3 cp
even if it doesnt crit that leaves you with 8cp
with normal opener you 3cp, spend, 3cp, 2-4 cp, max duration rupture, 0 cp
wary ice
The answer to rupture twice in the opener is so the exsanguinate rupture lasts longer
As mentioned
grave trail
Yeah I know but isint mut more valuable for the hcd even if overcapacity that's why I asked if it was the timing thing
Gcd*
grave trail
Ok yeah that answers it bullfango
wary ice
No, ur setting up for your burst
Like, that mut wont make up the damage lost from like 5?? Less seconds of the rupture
Idr off hand
tropic ocean
2nd you want max duration rupture
@tropic ocean <
wary ice
:^( I just repeated what he said
winter ermine
You’re also forgetting about elaborate planning talent, the first rupture puts this up for the second Garrote
tropic ocean
oh true that as well
grave trail
Ahhh elaborate planning right
Full.circle now
So elaborate planning + extra on rupture makes G G R not worth it?
tropic ocean
its not about ep or rupture
with g r g you setup for max duration rupture
while also having buffed garrote(by ep), and max duration garrote
and not wasting a buffed tick of garrote
grave trail
You literally agreed to what guba said about EB so what you meant it's not also about the EB
tropic ocean
yeah
but you changed your opener now to make it even worse
garrote 18 sec
garrote 23 sec (buffed tick wasted)
and no EB
thats even worse
😄
while with doing garrote 18 sec (garrote ticks) rupture, (buffed by eb) garrote 23 sec
grave trail
Yeah I understand the garrote part that's never been the confusion the confusion is why double Rupture
Which makes sense now
tropic ocean
for max duration with exsang
so you get as much bleed ticks during vendetta
and whatever other cds you use
grave trail
Vendetta for count for exang?
tropic ocean
no
grave trail
So last question would be how does the second exang work
tropic ocean
refresh bleeds, press exsang
tropic ocean
every vanish after 1st will line with vendetta
grave trail
I'm guessing for the 3rd exsng you wait for vend or the other way around w/e
grave trail
Oh ok cool last time I checked couldn't find the updated version but yeah that helps
Gotta get unused to the brainless toxic blade build
royal lantern
if you really think that tb is brainless and exsang is 10000IQ bigbrain
idk what too say
you are not very "smart"
royal lantern
exsang is probably even MORE boring lol
grave trail
Maybe it's all about getting used but does require more planning obviously non is hard to play
tropic ocean
st is pretty straight forward for cleave sligth adjustments must be made
e.g. ur vanish off cd in 10s but u know adds spawn in 20s so
obviously hold vanish 10s so u can spread 3 garrote
etc
grave trail
Yeah I know stuff like that for aoe thanks for help.tho
royal lantern
rupture over 25sec, garrote over 15sec before you use garrote, if not refresh them
huge planning ahead 
grave trail
Well you also line up the 4 with vend
What's the planning with TB oh make sure you have energy
Huge planning
Used of CD anyways
grave trail
Guide says line up 4th with vendetta
tropic ocean
some planning will come with ct
tropic ocean
4th exsang will line up with vendetta naturally
when u play correct
and thats what the guide says
😄
grave trail
And then yeah not so bad
royal lantern
exsang and tb play almost the same
like
you want your bleeds do be over X when you use it, for tb you want some energy, for exsang you want higher bleed timers
the end
grave trail
Yeah I guess I have to play exang more I never said they exang was hard all I said seems less brainless and prob requires more planning, again all asumption
mighty elm
was the APL sorted for CT yet?
mighty elm
how mch expedient u got
mighty elm
6 or 7 rank 3s u mean?
strange python
is any corruption good from vendor,in this rotation?expedient?
tropic ocean
torpid sparrow
anyone playing clf on nzoth MM? we r progressing on it and was wondering iof the +3 k from sim are worth it in that fight
and what bout CT?u play it in ST now as well?
strange python
with enough haste yes
night vale
I’m gonna try out deeper strat and expedient tonight, I’m presuming I just use finishers at 5/6 CP right?
tropic ocean
yes
night vale
Ty 🙂
scarlet sequoia
rupture 4+
night vale
Ah okay, thanks raz
worthy dome
anything worth buying now?
torpid sparrow
where do you squeeze the CT in the opener rotation?
scarlet sequoia
do a quick sim and check is probably the best way to find out rn
it changes a bit tho
torpid sparrow
u can check the rotation when the talent isnt the top option?
tropic ocean
in quicksim y
torpid sparrow
ah nvm i can just select that one instead of PB
royal lantern
shadowlands launch gona suck when we dont have 230%+ haste on opener anymore :c
dark crag
Embrace the sub life, gain almost nothing and lose almost nothing
royal lantern
embrace the sin life, lose stats, stay the same for 3expacs now?
dark crag
Simple specs attract simple minds 
dark crag
High iq required 
olive tusk
excuse me. I really dont understand how Exsang is working... I just see that it divides by 2 the remaing bleeding-debuff on my target and that's all... I dont see increased garrot nor rupture ticks... I just see less ticks...
vocal hedge
it halves the time it takes
to complete the bleeds
like literally read the tooltip
olive tusk
so what's the benefit of it???
vocal hedge
Allows you to put in more bleeds therefore more damage in a fight?
Its great for energy regen as well
tropic ocean
well you can think of it like that
if your bleeds do 500k dmg in 20sec
with exsang they will do 500k dmg in 10sec
olive tusk
ok. but in my combat-log I dont see any damage made from Exsang-spell, nor increased bleeding-ticks
vocal hedge
it doesnt increase damage
tropic ocean
it makes your bleeds tick double the speed
vocal hedge
it increased bled speed by 100%