so theres not much slots left where you actually need to care about
#assassination
tropic ocean
slow tulip
finaly some strike 3s for m+ 
north ibex
How many Strike3's should I stack for it to be good enough?
tropic ocean
slow tulip
for me the sims tells me i need 6 x severe 3s and 2 x strike 3s
but it will depend of your gear a lot
wicked comet
Surely the strikethroughs dont go up in value when stacked
hollow escarp
clever dagger
are 2x shard daggers still bis or you want shard + Trixie's Backup Backbiter because of more haste stats on it?
leaden burrow
Sim. I would say, depending on your current haste and corruption, shards, otherwise stack haste
clever dagger
allright thank you @leaden burrow
leaden burrow
No worries. I think its more personal prefference, if you feel hella starved, stack as much haste as possible, i dont think it makes a huge difference.
hollow escarp
red bloom
I go from 3.8mil, add one thing and 14mil
hollow escarp
yeah, I know how that feels
simming for Dungeon Slice is 
I kinda hate how sim tells me I need more Severe
I wonder if it considers the diminishing returns for having too much crit
tulip trout
yo Question, how come Raid bots is telling my I sim better with Subterfuge despite having no shrouded suffication on a patchwork style fight
scarlet sequoia
MA will make you overcap crit most likely and subterfuge simply scales better
hollow escarp
yeah, I always forget about that
zinc furnace
Is strikethrough worth corruption for M+ with x3 SS x3 EB build? Or just maxing severe?
tropic ocean
yes
and no
crit has high diminishing returns
so basically you dont really want much more crit than as much as you need to proc 5 echoings with each fok
worldly sandal
how are people parsing on ilgynoth? i finally got that wing down last night and only got a 58% parse
sterile quartz
What about TD 3? I using it together with TD 1 and 12% severe....sime better than put all into severes and strikethrough
azure pewter
Should i just wait for expedient 3 to show up again? or is it worth to get rank 2?
crystal blaze
sterile quartz
I prefer to buy 2....you will get echoes easily every week
tulip zodiac
Guys, is assa in m+ competitive against outlaw? Or outlaw will perform better allways?
Im doing about 72k overall in assasination this week, you?
tropic ocean
outlaw will perform better
shy dust
Yes sin is competitive
tropic ocean
but dps is not the issue
shy dust
But outlaw is better
tropic ocean
and for dps depends on key and how ur tank pulls
but 72k is definetely on lower end when you are geared
tulip zodiac
What dps are you doing overall?
tropic ocean
depends on key and group heavily mate
tulip zodiac
Ok. Thanks
tropic ocean
like idk what key lvl u are doing
tulip zodiac
Kr 15 im farming plumage
tulip zodiac
Can you post your gear?
limber lion
Is it worth running full Severe on m+ or do you want some Expedients/TA as well for bosses? Probably on tyrannical week you'd want more st-focused corruptions, right?
tulip zodiac
What corruptions are you wearing?
desert kelp
will buying expedient rank 2s be worth it temporarily before replacing with rank 3s?
I hear exp rank 2 is coming in next rotation (europe)
scarlet sequoia
if you are gonna have enough for when r3 comes around yeah
sly fern
t3 would be better in terms of slots
sterile quartz
@tropic ocean what corruptin with this gear?
desert kelp
30-35k in 3 weeks is not a problem at all I suppose
tropic ocean
18% beam 12% beam 4% crit dmg
tulip zodiac
Twilight devastation?
tropic ocean
yea
tulip zodiac
Ok
unborn tangle
how much are we simming st 3 min lower than 40 corruption : https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vfHLzF1GUPXgqZRUT35ojz
desert kelp
I'd still sim plenty less with Exp rank 2s but I suppose it's worth taking them just cause IS is very unstable
unborn tangle
i always sim better with 455 coral instead of medallion which is same to plumage but i really want to play with on use vers trinket
woven prairie
the pin for "bis" corruptions for exsang spec, you want 1 honed mind and 1 exped r2 so ye I suppose both those are worth buying 🙂
wise hawk
Hi new rogue player compared to outlaw is there more downtime from being energy starved? i started outlaw but i sure do hate the RNG of RTB but now in sin i just feel so energy starved alot of the time 😫
woven prairie
depends on your gear, once u have haste you wont be
quartz depot
get about 30more ilvl first
wise hawk
for sure lol
woven prairie
A L O T
wise hawk
moar haste, check
runic kernel
Are there any good vision guides for beginners?
Someone who knows how WoW works and rogue works, but no clue about vision mechanics.
desert kelp
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hLM5yC1SQnaq85HfAEdPk9 I can't seem to get a setup where Expedient would be better than IS, is it just the consistency on why it's much better or is my gear just garbage
runic kernel
And is there anyway to reset titan console talents?
runic kernel
Also its prob because you are doing patchwerk. Which rewards consistent dps.
Try the dungeon slice one.
Its in beta but seems pretty good.
desert kelp
For singletarget?
tropic ocean
@desert kelp ur gear is bad
and u dont have enough expedients
not sure why you would sim dungeon slice
not gonna use expedient in dungeons
tropic ocean
azerite
get sockets get higher gear
and the max corruption u can run is limited by your player skill
desert kelp
my old raid leaders didnt agree so much on that
tropic ocean
well as long as you dont die to corruption i dont see a reason to not run over 40
i mean u can blind kidney cloak the add
or just kite it
desert kelp
Yeaaaah but they still refused to understand it /shrug
I have the tortured chest piece azerite, I need raden head (mythic?) and gorak tul shoulders?
desert kelp
Haste mecha ring right?
desert kelp
only have the nature with socket right now
also vita is eluding me like I'm eluding responsibilities
desert kelp
Seems to be about time to find a new guild to raid in I suppose to get that raden cap
tropic ocean
if thats your goal, its a good time to get into better guilds
many ppl afk until shadowlands
desert kelp
well I mean, I was already in a CE guild, just not as a dps but healer, sad hours to have Vita as 475 on my other toon but none on this
desert kelp
Yeah the only problem is finding someone who actually still recruits at this point I suppose
desert kelp
Well that's a good thing
tropic ocean
when I put myself on lfg few days ago bnet friend request were poppin
are you on eu or us?
desert kelp
EU
limber lion
Is Deadly Momentum terrible? It sims pretty highly for me in a 6-target 40s no bl patchwork fight
static cove
some one have an image of opener using CT for Exsang build?
loud silo
should i but up expedient r2?
tropic ocean
maybe yes maybe no
depending on what your goal is
and how much u can farm until r3 is up again
@limber lion no but with higher gear and higher base crit severe/strikethrough usually better
maybe 1 deadly momentum if sim suggests so
buff is up a lot in donjon
somber fractal
i heard someone saying that gushing wounds on 485 pieces is still worth it over expedient
can anyone confirm or deny
somber fractal
thanks wise ass
limber lion
Ah alright. I've been kinda avoiding it because it doesn't seem too great. But I guess I should just listen to my sim and use it. :p
Thanks
tropic ocean
it might be good for you
because your gear might not be as optimized for expedient yet
for me its 1.5k dps loss replacing expedient with it
limber lion
Lmao what
strange python
Meme
tropic ocean
not
strange python
Hey guys. I saw this pinned guide for the Expedient build with SS/Exsanguinate. I always loved that build so id like to try it, my questions is this: On the guide it mentioned 7xR3 + 1xR2 Exp + 1xR3 HM. This adds up to 190 corr... after reduction it calls to 100 (as of this week). Is this build meant as endgame with max corr resistance? How many of each should i use now instead?
strange python
Thx
tropic ocean
usually you will just remove the honed mind and the r2 expedient
but just sim to be sure
velvet vortex
Hey guys I just wanted to present a scenario and get some feedback on what I could have done better if anything at all. There was a DH messing with some horde in Azshuna and I happened to be in the area so I went to help. my ilvl is only 421 about 345k HP. The DH I'm guessing was a bit lower since his total HP was 304k... anyways I was play sin rogue and got the full combo on him from stealth and was doing good for a bit, but he ended up winning the fight even though I was technically stronger than him. I managed all my DoTs well and even baited his medallion out for a full Kidney shot and still lost the fight. I even went back to kill him again and failed, but this time a lot worse since he used spectral site to locate me before I could get a stealth combo off
Is it not possible to win a 1v1 vs DH even with an ilvl advantage or did I just not play it correctly?
(I'm fairly new to the game and have been playing for a little over a month now)
sweet rampart
Is the base form of golden plumage from regular mythics worth just going and trying to get?
i didn't realize the 430 version was so high on bloodmallet
woven prairie
@velvet vortex In a long fight the DH is going to win due to the high leech, you'll have to manage your defensives and try to burst him 🙂 preferrably using Drest/ Remote Guidance device trinkets and Breath of the dying major essence
apart from that Versa is your main stat in pvp for both bursty damage and less dmg taken
velvet vortex
@woven prairie So there was no way for me to win that fight I'm guessing? at least not with better gear? I just felt defeating due to the fact he was somewhat of a lower iLvL than me
woven prairie
you can always win
velvet vortex
Guess I just need to work on it then haha
glad compass
does crimson tempest have a pandemic window or do we reapply once it fulls off
and is it effected by exanguinate
cobalt pelican
yes it does and yes it is
pandemic is always 30% of the newly applied duration
hmm . . .
idk how i don't have enough haste at this point
with expedient 19 and haste on p much all my gear at like 78% base haste
wild.
feral creek
maybe too less mastery to make it worth?
poisenbomb does much to less dmg CT will be the way to go if the boss moves a lot like xanesh
feral creek
my galecallers sims better then plum :/
tribal obsidian
same
think plume and vers is at very high levels of haste though
i couldnt get exa to be better till i took off bote and coral
cold patio
how u handle exang build refresh bleeds with energy capping an snapped bleeds? iam often at a situation where iam capping or i can refresh after 2-3cds after it runs out...
tropic ocean
you let exsang bleeds run out
and you shouldnt snap bleeds when you cap already
but rather spend with envenom
cold patio
so i let them run out even if i can reapply in 2-3gcds?
tropic ocean
well if played correct garrote and rupture will run out at different times due to dot duration so
after garrote runs out u refresh it
then few secs after you refresh rupture
cold patio
yeah but sometimes if i prepare a refresh of rupture and and have to wait ~2-3sec iam capping energy thats fine than?
or is it than better to finish an envenom and reaply after ~2-3 after runs out
tropic ocean
just spend your energy
but what you describe is just misplay
if you have to wait 2-3 sec and capping energy
u can just envenom mutilate mutilate rupture
and you'll refresh without overcapping energy
cold patio
hm ok than i have to look in my rota thx u 🙂
tropic ocean
👍
onyx birch
I dont know if this question has been asked but are either the heroic razor or diver's folly good for us?
tropic ocean
coral is strong if heroic version is good for you, you will need to sim it
folly is not used as assassination
green forge
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aUujwN3ATQzTXx3NpjnAhG
@scarlet sequoia do you intentionally playing with that mastery oriented gear over versatility ?
ocean cape
better full severe or strikethrough for 3 garots on mm+ ? with 2 appendices
tropic ocean
severe and strikethrough will be your goal yeah
when using 3 ss 3 eb, for non eb other stuff might be superior, will need to sim it
ocean cape
i've allready 48% critic with 1 severe 2, so not bad idea to full strikethrough ?
hollow escarp
what is too much crit for assa? 
tropic ocean
in aoe crit will fall off the more you put into it
once you reach enough crit for your fok to always fire 5 eb you reached the traits full potential
and due to not being a linear stat, crit falls off anyway the more you invest into it
tribal obsidian
i have only 3500 residum do you think its worth to keep gamgbling for gorak tul shoulder or wait like a month
hollow escarp
simming always tells me that NP + HoD is better than the 465 EB 
ocean cape
caped*
scarlet sequoia
@green forge what do you mean
slender trail
hey all. new to ravenholdt. reading about the rollover of the corruptions and checking pins. am i understanding right that outside of the expedient+exs build, we want to go for r3 severe r3 strikethrough when possible?
tropic ocean
^for dungeons when running 3ss3eb
tropic ocean
@tribal obsidian I guess depends on what you want
gambling will give you the chance to be more powerful earlier
tribal obsidian
blight shoulders with garrote
tropic ocean
but can also make you not get powerful at all if you are unlucky
you might get it next roll you might not get it in 5 rolls
if you can be fine with having a lower powerlevel for 8ish? weeks then you will have a safe choice to get gorak tul
green forge
@scarlet sequoia I can see from your sim that you equipped a lot of part with haste mastery stats on it. Since I usually saw people stacking haste versa stats, I was wondering if it was intentional, or just a sim with mastery to test out the CT build
ocean cape
nice
scarlet sequoia
who stacks haste versa
fathom swift
any simc wizards around
sterile quartz
So what is better for m+ TD3 or 4x rank 3 strikethrough for example...actually I have 48% crit + TD4 and severe 3
So dont know ig TD is still better than strike
fathom swift
want more feedback on my post in #tc-research if anyone wants to test galecaller apl change on their chatacter 🙂
tropic ocean
@sterile quartz sim it in raidbots
for me 4 severe 4 strikethrough sim better than td
(also is way more reliable)
scarlet sequoia
yeah dratnos also said in his video that stats will outscale td for assa
so i think its a safe bet
tropic ocean
generally td is not so good on assa
as you dont really want haste and it procs rarely
t5 td usually does 15~20% of my dmg
but for the same amount of corruption u can just stack so much more crit/str
sweet rampart
I think my plan it to buy 3 expedient 2s and then wait for some good gear to throw them onto 🙂
cinder horizon
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gfZVqjpUqjwsZ7YJJrHQW2 this is what im working with and look to see how i can improve my ST.
little root
well the first immediate fix would be your essences
cinder horizon
meme beam is for solo for got to change that
little root
ah okay i was hoping thats why u were using it
pseudo hamlet
@sweet rampart your plan should be getting better gear asap instead of putting expedient on 445ilvl items and wasting your echoes.
Anyway, I saw you were using SS/Exang spec and having like 51k DPS sim. Try something like(TB+Vigor):
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/Pts7hnxF88uvb9PvMyrXd
It's not a lot, but it's something.
hollow escarp
465 EB + SoB sims better than 480 EB + TtK 😕
tropic ocean
i'd use ttk over sob
as sob only really has value in trash
but even then you'd need to sim 4 mobs aoe cuz u wont keep up really more than 4 bleeds
and ttk has value on boss and prio dmg too
crimson palm
how many exp 2 pieces u buying boys?
tropic ocean
1
crimson palm
anyone done the maths
pseudo hamlet
4125 actually
pseudo hamlet
Though I'm saving for expedients 3. Lacking plenty of echoes and it'll take some time
crimson palm
'done the maths' means at some point we'll need to run exp 2 because of the corruption budget
paper kelp
since i have 0 exp3 pieces should still get 1 rank2 or save up for more rank3's ?
sick oyster
@tropic ocean u getting honed mind as well?
hollow escarp
I really don't want to cleanse rank 3 tendie
crimson palm
no1's forcing u to
hollow escarp
I might cleanse my rank 2 and go with 2 strikethroughs
little root
already had 1 hm 3 so im just buying 2 expedient 2’s this week cause ik ill have enough echoes to buy the 3’s i need when theyre back
🤷🏻♂️
faint harness
if expedient 3 isnt coming until a full rotation is made
i assume its worth buying a bunch of rank 2s
lost horizon
If you need upgrades now for prog or whatever yeah
faint harness
not really
hollow escarp
well, if you are EU, you can wait until last day
lost horizon
If you want to fill out max corruption for each week though, you just need one rank 2, and one rank 1
hollow escarp
and check if exp 3 pops up
faint harness
no we cant
lost horizon
Rest should be 3s
hollow escarp
they didn't confirm if there is a rotation or if it is RNG
lost horizon
2 weeks
tropic ocean
so earliest is 2 weeks
hollow escarp
or did they?
faint harness
its not rng
tropic ocean
if they keep the rotation always the same
faint harness
quite positive
tropic ocean
2 weeks from now first reset will be exp 3
lost horizon
Could be exclusive rng though
faint harness
if it was full rng, we would see more duplicates
lost horizon
Different order each reset
faint harness
and we havent seen any yet
lost horizon
Which would mean >2 weeks
tropic ocean
yeah but I doubt they do that
lost horizon
But minimum 2 weeks, which isn't bad
tropic ocean
I think they just do it like in affixes
hollow escarp
as much as I hate azerite vendor, I wished they did the same with corruption
tropic ocean
always same rotation
lost horizon
I'd assume rotation as well
faint harness
theres already someone that datamined the hotfix or some shit
lost horizon
But if so then blizz doodoo for not releasing the schedule
faint harness
with the "schedule"
tropic ocean
blizz already doodoo for not releasing all corruptions at once
cobalt pelican
it's like
tropic ocean
not sure what they are thinking
cobalt pelican
52 is just w rong i think
lost horizon
52 less 6 for raid only
lost horizon
It does
cobalt pelican
i THINK it's 46 buyables, 6 7 7 6 6 7 7 6
lost horizon
Correct
hoary crown
what does that mean ? x'D
tropic ocean
not really
cobalt pelican
i'm buying as many t2s as i can justify while keeping echoes for socket farming
faint harness
cus i only have T6 expedient atm
cobalt pelican
t2 won't be bad until like
2 more full vendor cycles
in terms of struggling to fill res
so
faint harness
ye
its fine
its a 3k dps upgrade for me
and thats with cleansing T2 tendies from 485 weapons
cobalt pelican
rookie mistake
real solar
Yeah, I have 3x 475 trophies, but killing Cara again this week
sick oyster
How much corruption do we end up with max res and the suggested setup in the guide?
tropic ocean
2x Ineffable Truth
3x Avoidant
3x Twisted Appendage
3x Twilight Devastation
3x Severe
3x Strikethrough
3x Expedient
3x Racing Pulse
3x Versatile
3x Masterful
3x Infinite Stars
1x Gushing Wounds
3x Siphoner
3x Honed Mind
3x Deadly Momentum
3x Echoing Void
3x Void Ritual
3x surging Vitality
1x Glimpse of Clarity
= 52 possible corruptions
unless they decide to put raid only corruptions in as well, but I doubt
cobalt pelican
oh that makes sense actually
i think i originally counted from the raidbots gui but
it won't have
avoidant/leech i guess
that makes it a set 4 week rotation then i guess
13 a week
tropic ocean
yup
crimson palm
so exp is the third week from now
crimson palm
u sure>
real solar
Isnt it 17th
crimson palm
it should be 17th
cobalt pelican
yeah, 2 weeks from the reset coming (3rd june) i think
so 17th
either way it's fast enough that gearing is very much trivial now
and by the second vendor cycle most people should be geared
tribal obsidian
trying to figure out the best amount of exp 2 and st 3 to buy lol
little root
🙂
little root
its the morning lol
tropic ocean
evening for me but boosting all day so brain ded
tribal obsidian
the thing is at safe corruption how many exp3 can you really run next time it comes arouond
tribal obsidian
thought 7 was at like 125 resist
cobalt pelican
you'll have like 158 corr res including cape and breath on the 17th so
tribal obsidian
if its back up in 3 weeks thats only 89 resist no?
little root
where are ya getting 158 corr res?
cobalt pelican
89+10+59
tribal obsidian
so id need enough echos for 6 3s which would be 30k
cobalt pelican
assuming you're comfortable playing at 59, that is
just remove a rank 3 if you 're a <40 gamer
little root
ohhh you were including actual corruption i thought you were only talking about corruption resistance
strange python
is it worth to switch out td rank 3 with strikethrough rank 3?
little root
what else would you use with st 3
little root
cause thats a massive corruption difference lol
strange python
yeah but I was thinking more dmg wise
little root
not sure what youre asking....if you mean to replace td 3 with an equal amount of corruption worth of ST 3 then it might be similar but would depend on your base crit%.... probably fine to use severes and strikethroughs instead of td 3 if you dont wanna rely on rng
as for straight up dmg....well thatd just depend on how lucky u get with td and how big pulls are
if your not running EB's with good base crit% then i wouldnt worry about strikethroughs at all
little root
then strikethroughs would be good
little root
lol not your fault...too many different scenarios to consider
dont cleanse the td 3 though if thats would you were thinking of doing in order to replace it
strange python
no no
got rank 3 td boots and rank 3 st boots
was wondering what was better for eb build
little root
idk if "better" is the correct term but it is for sure more reliable lol
strange python
i hate using td tbh
little root
just buy enough st to make up for the corruption difference of the td and ull be good
little root
yea same ive never used td or IS cause its obnoxious
faint harness
fuck man do you guys think these beats 485 socketed boots with no corruption
tribal obsidian
if you have enough haste sure
fleet whale
it's likely yes
night vale
I find TD really underwhelming / borderline useless as assassination in m+. I run low haste in m+ and I don’t get many procs at all to consider it worth it
tribal obsidian
my experience with TD is no procs till im chasing an obelisk slime up a hill then it procs 3 times
little root
just put expedient no the 485 boots
little root
id just chuck a 2 on them for now lol
tribal obsidian
1-2 expedients dont seem to be enough to outdo things like IS
little root
ull have enough echoes for a 3 when it comes back id assume
fleet whale
IS is rng though
tribal obsidian
i ended up having to buy 4-5 exp2 if i wanted a decent dps increase
faint harness
tribal obsidian
so i just bought 1 and waiting for 3s
but i already had one 3 and one 2
i kind of want to load up on some st3 at this point for m+ and figure i should have enough echoes for when the r3 exp comes back
sturdy mesa
How's gushing wounds lookin after the nerf in terms of pvp and ST
little root
as long as you dont just afk for 2 weeks then youre going to have enough for exp 3
cinder horizon
what is better to aim for crit or haste builds with no plan to use Exsang
cinder horizon
i dont like that play style
frigid grotto
The best option now is exsang??
fleet whale
people still run TB because they may like it more and the difference between the two isn't that large really
or at least not large enough where you don't have a choice
loud silo
so whats all this talk wbout gushing? is it nerfed or not?
gray crest
fleet whale
and for TB expedient is still really good, you would probably still want some but probably throw some crit corruptions in there as well
little root
ye ye
cinder horizon
any one got a link for the Preserved corruptions that have been seen so far?
faint harness
according to this
its not a linear schedule
so next expedient 3 would be in a month
glad compass
so with enough expedients crimson tempest is part of the endgame bis build?
glad compass
at 4 rank 3 expedients and 1 rank 2 expedient its simming higher for me already
faint harness
@little root not really since you dont exsang the CT
if you would exsang the CT, then ye
would be kinda aids
little root
yea i still think it would just feel weird to replace an env with ct especially if youre trying to get it in pandemic window but idt raz said he was really focussing on it kinda just pressed ct whenever
*focusing
faint harness
it was also before the APL was released iirc
that he played it
and used CT with exsang
faint harness
like the build up wouldve been complete shit if you had to exsang the CT
8-9 seconds before you press it
little root
yea gross
fleet whale
the worst part of using CT is seeing that ugly animation
little root
i get more frustrated by the sound than the look lol
fleet whale
yeah, it's the old whirlwind sound
little root
i wish it had a more impactful sound
faint harness
the good part is that you wont feel bad for playing it on aoe fights
little root
very true...free dmg lol
fleet whale
FoK has nice blood decal affects, idk why they just don't use that for CT
fleet whale
EB would be better too, but that's actually the old fok sound lol
tribal obsidian
im at the weirdest spot with gear where it wants me to go 1 SS and 2 DD with exa but it only beats out pure DD build by 100 dps
little root
holy shit youre right....thats why eb sounded so familiar jesus i just couldnt remember what it was
faint harness
i would commit to one spec
little root
fleet whale
I think blizz could do more with CT right now... like right now it's a button you press for more damage....
could use a little more spec interaction, maybe proc VM
faint harness
good part about it
is that its consistent
and not rng like PB
even if PB rng is way less now
fleet whale
idk, the whole level 100 row for sin is whack
little root
very true
fleet whale
it's like three things no assassin rogue ever asked to come back
fleet whale
well, PB we all know that
faint harness
little root
lol
fleet whale
no one used the leggo cloak
and just about every rogue i knew took CT off their bars in MOP and WoD
little root
honestly i would like hidden blades if the stacking mechanic worked differently then just having to wait
tribal obsidian
the PB animation has always been satisfying to me though ever since bag of tricks
faint harness
i played it on hivemind last week
fleet whale
the level 100 row for assassin might be the worst talent row in the game
little root
i played it for cara a couple times to test padding when i went double EB cause im a scumbag
honestly ddint feel bad...BotE + max stack hidden blade when tentacles came down was pretty juicy
little root
yeah thats fair
fleet whale
it was fun to double dip it with the cloak in the prepatch
little root
lol i just wanted the big burst 
fleet whale
eonar opener was very funny with the cloak, plus hidden blades, plus leggo shoulders, plus nightstalker
frigid briar
Rogues have worse talent choices than assass row 100
Rogues have like 6-8 talents that are just dead.
faint harness
ironically i think sub has one of the best talent trees
fleet whale
for a 100 row, the row is still really bad though
regardless if the talents are useful are not
frigid briar
I dont see how its bad
St that cleaves or instant burst AoE or constant pressure AoE
fleet whale
like i said, it's three things that no rogue ever asked to come back, coming back in one row
little root
infexious shh dont u know that if we complain in discord then the blizzard devs that are undoubtedly reading this rn will buff us
crimson palm
I dont see how its bad
@frigid briar let ppl who understand the class see how bad it is
frigid briar
Lol
orchid raft
What can I do here to improve ? Cant seem to go pass this
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/q8tJeD3rsYM9MEe12HMLcf
frigid briar
Hemo, whats your opinion on why its bad?
crimson palm
when u make a claim that the worst talent 100 row in the game is not bad, defending the argument goes the other way
frigid briar
Im asking why you believe its worst talent row choice
fleet whale
the talents themselves may be useful, but it's absurdly underwhelming for an "ultimate" talent row
PB is entirely passive, and pretty much has 0 spec interaction
HB is just you save up your fok, yippe
scarlet sequoia
good thing ct is better then
fleet whale
CT is ok i guess??? wish it did a little more
jovial haven
But they could just switch that row with the TB/exsang row and then it would solve the issue?
rancid bobcat
Crimson tempest 
fleet whale
idk, assassination luckily as a spec has a lot of other good things to it
rancid bobcat
Is it basically just another bleed to maintain
scarlet sequoia
yes
rancid bobcat
Are ya'll using it already
fleet whale
so even though it's talent row is underwhelming, baseline the spec is solid
You have to be extremely geared to use it
scarlet sequoia
i played it in a hc boost yesterday
jovial haven
I liked CTs niche, it just sucks it’s competing against a talent choice that (barring lots of haste) does ST and cleave
scarlet sequoia
other than that nah
rancid bobcat
Man where do I even put it on my bars
rancid bobcat
Shift is my ptt so Def not
prime void
That’s uh
jovial haven
Mouse wheel for builders 1-3 for spenders
fleet whale
binds are all personal preference imo
prime void
That’s uh
rancid bobcat
slim olive
Katie cappin a bit 😏
fleet whale
f is always my interrupt though, and that goes for any class
rancid bobcat
That's q
jovial haven
Alt+ - is mine but I use a pad
little root
wat
fleet whale
yeah that seems a little weird but whatever works for you lol
little root
F
hushed lion
it was fun while it lasted
fleet whale
yes, having something that will either do 20% of your damage
hushed lion
194k rits
fleet whale
or 2%
hushed lion
id say so
fleet whale
is so fun
little root
slim olive
Is there any large rng sources in the new exang build? Blightborne / crit procs?
hushed lion
no, not at all
little root
bb is up pretty often
fleet whale
That's a huge selling point for this exsang build.... sims really well and not much RNG
hushed lion
exactly the reason why i swapped weeks ago
also feels like TB hits the ceiling when it comes to dps
slim olive
Yeah, back at the end of EP parses were literally blightborne procs and who crit more 😄
fleet whale
it's crazy were doing like more than double dps we did in EP
I want to run Mythic uldir with a full 470+ group
just to see how fast everything dies
slim olive
Make benthic corruptible and work in NYA 😏
fleet whale
no
jolly atlas
⛔
jolly atlas
I gotta ask, what corruption should I stack and with traits.
scarlet sequoia
well the apl wasnt updated so i didnt know how to
fleet whale
expedient
scarlet sequoia
i just used ct after the 25% crit dmg window of blood
jolly atlas
Haste + 3x SS?
little root
yes
jolly atlas
Cool
crimson palm
the apl koji linked does it in the bote window
scarlet sequoia
i know
jolly atlas
Thanks for easy answear
little root
also random but you cant target thing from beyond with a macro correct?
scarlet sequoia
but idk that seems weird to do
crimson palm
aye
scarlet sequoia
feel like its better to use envenom there
crimson palm
but the alternative is to delay exsang or use envenom
scarlet sequoia
why would u delay exsang
crimson palm
apply ct before exsan bote
fathom swift
You could prob edit apl see what the dps difference is
crimson palm
g r g v m r m m ct e bote
little root
that seems not great
fathom swift
You dont wanna delay exsang that long just for ct
crimson palm
its still gonna overlap though
cobalt pelican
the alternative would just be to delay ct by 1 cp cycle
crimson palm
dunno
cobalt pelican
which isn't likely to be a big difference but it's easy enough to check it's literally just adding !buff.seething_rage.up to it
little root
g g r m m ct e BotE 
crimson palm
ye this is what i thought
but its doing ct first
you lose some uptime on the crit buff from bote on the garr ticks
guess its worth
cobalt pelican
that's pretty puke
scarlet sequoia
it felt nice to play tho
so thats good
will be a bit more punishing to bad players too so thats nice also
fathom swift
Yet another dot to maintain yay
fathom swift
Theres already a rupture up
scarlet sequoia
hmm
seems like
if u do
g r g v m
and the mutilate doesnt give u 6 cp
so u have 5
u do ct first
if u get 6 then u do rupture exsang
vast forum
sounds weird 😄
scarlet sequoia
it just really wants 6 cp rupture for exsang
fathom swift
That sounds kinda off, wonder if its something weird going on with apl
vast forum
@scarlet sequoia u think 485 boots worth wearing once we max out expedients btw?
crimson palm
that's because of the recent change
cobalt pelican
koji serial bote hater sabotaging the apl smh
fathom swift
Serial galecaller hater 😠
scarlet sequoia
dont think ill ever use ct as first finisher after blood
that seems mega dumb
fk that
vestal wren
is there a issue with ct + bote?
scarlet sequoia
u wanna look at it fuu
its doing bote > mutilate > mutilate > ct
over bote > mutilate > mutilate > envenom
vestal wren
can you link a sim?
scarlet sequoia
crimson palm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eVRGyVDqQRE3L6AmFc1gSs ye same shit here
vestal wren
so what exactly is the idea, to use bote later or to not use ct during bote?
scarlet sequoia
to not use ct as the first finisher after bote
crimson palm
either delay bote or use env during bote
there seems to be an edge case where it delays
vast forum
delaying bote sounds a bit dumb, considering exsanguianted SS garrotes are short af
and they're the vast majority of your damage
scarlet sequoia
the apl is also exclusively doing vanish > garrote > mutilate > garrote
fathom swift
Ct also has an initial damage component too 🙂
scarlet sequoia
i know it was looked at etc but that also seems wrong
vast forum
seems like a good time to use gar-ct-gar
scarlet sequoia
well anything really
vast forum
i've also been using g-env-g there even with 3cp
feelycraft says it's better than mut there
fathom swift
Also pls get someone to look at the galecaller stuff i post in #tc-research because that trinket is insanely underrated because of its apl atm, legit 1k dps gain potential
Ya i was memeing
scarlet sequoia
just dm koji he usually does stuff
cobalt pelican
be patience :)
fathom swift
Yeah i talked to him a month ago about it is all
vast forum
btw @scarlet sequoia when you did the sims with 125 cloak resistance, what was the difference between 9x exp3 and 7x exp3/exp2/honed mind 3?
vestal wren
fathom swift
And pretty sure its gonna be bis with exsang build once it gets fixed
scarlet sequoia
1k dps @vast forum
vestal wren
i think i did a mistake
crimson palm
its still a fkin proc u have to play with tho
vast forum
honed mind is a pretty consistent proc
i'm more salty about OP/vita RNG than honed mind
little root
yea its up like what ~40% of the time?
vast forum
because if vita procs 0.5 sec after your exsang, your exsang bleeds get no value from it
cobalt pelican
hold exsang for an op proc
vast forum
kekw
cobalt pelican
ez gains
vast forum
high assa logs will likely turn into who procced vita/op on pull soon
it can legit make a 70k opener difference
or more
i'd say even 100k+
vestal wren
i just make it worse
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4wEv77BVPk2Y8Quecxv996/simc
crimson palm
the goraks proc is also pretty important
vestal wren
but the sample sequence looks fine i guess
vast forum
gorak's is important but haste procs could make a huge difference in proccing 1-2 sec earlier or later
hollow vault
clockwork heart tho 
mossy valve
strange python
guys i have a question, which is currently better for rogue assasin in corruptions Stats (haste, crit) or infinity stars, litle tentacle, etc?
for pve
honest vessel
expedient 3 is kinda the best
but stars are better for full st
tentacles arent bad
fleet whale
as fights get shorter stars loses value
hoary crown
rancid bobcat
We expect that the first 8 rotations will be sequential. On the reset of June 16th, we'll find out whether this data is true or simply a ruse and return to a sequential 1-8 rotation again.
upper sundial
if you're stacking expedients, is SS + exsans the way to go?
rancid bobcat
probably
little root
lime edge
IS 🤮
sick oyster
@scarlet sequoia how are u plannign to upgrade your gear with honed mind 3 and exp 2? where would u fit it in right now if at all/
scarlet sequoia
well its not until max cloak resist
but in my gear rn i would put expedient t2 on bracers and honed mind t3 on off hand
mint oar
any good corurption this week?
sick oyster
thx @scarlet sequoia was wondering if i kinda wasted 5k on putting exp3 on a 475 dagger monkaS
scarlet sequoia
well u did unless u arent getting 2x 485
sick oyster
well still waiting for even one mythic carp so i guess till next rotation and beyond im fine anyways
fleet anchor
Regarding the conversation above
I would not stress too much about what exact globals you use during BotE when like... 90% of the damage of this spec comes from the bleeds that are already up 😛
20% of an Envenom is basically negligible damage for this spec lol
It's definitely going to be far more valuable to optimize the Exsang setup and use while all your bleeds are Exsanguinated than any sort of delay just for trying to fit in an Envenom
Exsanguinated Garrote can bleed out very quickly, any delays likely mean missing Garrote ticks
royal tree
does the exsang build need the MYTHIC carapace chest or can you get away with heroic if you have enough expedient?
little root
i only have heroic and dont even have ra den helm and it still sims higher for me soo
sim yourself lol
fleet anchor
@scarlet sequoia
the apl is also exclusively doing vanish > garrote > mutilate > garrote
That's not really true. The APL will fill the middle GCD with whatever is appropriate for the current CP level. Sometimes it will use Envenom or CT in there, it just depends on how much CP you have when you Vanish
Also if you are running CT you definitely would not want to delay it just for the sake of a BotE Envenom. Pretty sure there is no way that maths out.
An extra <8k damage from Envenom during BotE is basically the same as a single Crimson Tempest tick
scarlet sequoia
aight if the thing says its worth them its prolly true
regarding the ct prio in the opener there
is it correct that if the mutilate gives u 5 cp u use ct, if it gives 6 u rupture exsang?
fleet anchor
CT will gain 1.4k from a crit too, so that takes the gain down to less than 7k damage from using Envenom
So basically if it would cause you to lose even a single CT tick
It would be a DPS loss
scarlet sequoia
ah okay, i just misjudged how hard ct ticks then
fleet anchor
Envenom is pretty wussy with this build
CT ticks should average around 6.2k or something
And around 12k initial damage average
fleet anchor
One second, rocket launch 😛
scarlet sequoia
ah yes
frigid grotto
can someone send a link with simulation with exanguinate build?
nocturne gate
go in tc research scroll up
frigid grotto
i saw ty
bleak spoke
what's the exact opener with ct? @scarlet sequoia
scarlet sequoia
@fleet anchor
bleak spoke
also nice job on all stars raz 
fleet anchor
As far as I've found the opener is exactly the same and there's no particular reason to delay Exsang just to get CT up
But I have not messed with that too much yet
fleet anchor
Yes
bleak spoke
yeah it's hard to imagine a world where you lose the globals to actually hitting ct
when you need to build CP to even press it
bleak spoke
wait actually though are we g r g v m m r exsang or g r g m m r v exsang?
err
gotta be higher value to vendetta on the empowered garrotes as long as possible or soemthing right
crimson palm
u vendetta after garrote
bleak spoke
yeh makes sense
placid cove
should i remove r3 inf stars for 5 r2 expedient ?
scarlet sequoia
@fleet anchor did u answer my question from earlier
bleak spoke
holy fuck raz i just read your shadhar log and you actually fill every single global
that's nuts
fleet anchor
So you're specifically asking about the 5 CP case Raz?
In just the opener or in general?
scarlet sequoia
ye in the opener
bleak spoke
koji in your tc post you said it's worth using in ST when it's already talented
scarlet sequoia
yeah its fun @bleak spoke
bleak spoke
is that the case even with a very crit setup
like in m+
where your haste is giga low
fleet anchor
Yes
fleet anchor
I had to go like.. absurdly low haste for it not to be worth using at all
Like... 400 lol
bleak spoke
oh isn't that less than what neck gives you
scarlet sequoia
ill type it out koji moment
bleak spoke
LOL
fleet anchor
I'm checking your case right now Raz
scarlet sequoia
okay
fleet anchor
Will see if I can force it to do one over the other
And see if it makes any difference
scarlet sequoia
well it just seems to do
if the mutilate after vendetta gives 5
it cts
if it gives 6 it rupture exsangs
bleak spoke
https://i.imgur.com/TJ6RlhS.png is how my m+ set's stats work out at the moment koji
fleet anchor
Basically as long as you aren't using it during Toxic Blade
Or if it's Exsanguinated
rancid bobcat
so wait, do you not actually use CT in pure single target
bleak spoke
ah okay
fleet anchor
Or MA isn't up
bleak spoke
so basically don't overwrite it
fleet anchor
etc.
bleak spoke
when it's exsang by coincidence
crimson palm
it's probably an edge case with the other change to exsan u made
crimson palm
gar/6cp rup enforced
scarlet sequoia
no u never force ct for exsang
fleet anchor
Well 6CP Rupture has been enforced for a long time
bleak spoke
also since it's been like 3 tiers since we last used exsang uh, are we still hard refreshing for exsang
fleet anchor
It's only the Garrote that is new
bleak spoke
like lets say i have 12s garrote do i throw garrote before exsang
or is it not worth the global
if it's not in pandemic already
cuz iirc back then the rules were like to refresh bleeds under 1/2 duration roughly?
fleet anchor
Yes the current findings over the last few days
Are that it's worth tossing up Garrote before you Exsanguinate
fleet anchor
Regardless of its current duration
fleet anchor
As long as it won't interfere with AoE/cleave
scarlet sequoia
been doing that since exsang became a thing 
bleak spoke
^yeh been doing that since s1 basically
where like i'll refresh it for the big big dot
fleet anchor
So Raz, I just tested an APL where I strictly disable CT pre-Exsang in the opener
And it's a 0.1% loss
bleak spoke
what
scarlet sequoia
so what its doing rn is correct
bleak spoke
wait
last gyro
so shall i use the guardian on cd, hold my cds for it, or hold it until i have cds up again
scarlet sequoia
i just looked at what the sim does
bleak spoke
@last gyro i think you line it if you don't lose a cd in the fight otherwise you don't
scarlet sequoia
it seemed to do ct if the mutilate after vendetta landed u on 5 cp and if it gave 6 then u rupture exsanged
fleet anchor
Yes
last gyro
line it means hold everything for it ?
fleet anchor
It will fall through
bleak spoke
then you delay your guardian for third vendetta
last gyro
i mean I'm pretty confident this fight will take longer than 6 mins
fleet anchor
But I'm also checking if it's worth forcing the behavior
bleak spoke
and not hold second vendetta for guardian 2
scarlet sequoia
okay
bleak spoke
like it appliles both ways right
fleet anchor
The current logic is probably best though, but will see
last gyro
what's with vanish and exa
scarlet sequoia
i mean it makes sense that it would do it
last gyro
if i play bleed build hold as well
scarlet sequoia
if u made 6 cp rupture forced
bleak spoke
you hold vendetta for vanish and exsang
scarlet sequoia
although we did check and 5 cp rupture before exsang was within the margin of error
bleak spoke
generally speaking
last gyro
but like i said i feel like I could use it with all my cds on 6 min mark
bleak spoke
well then you don't line right
because you lose a cast if you do
like if the kill timer is something like 6:30 that's probably the case ish?
not 100% sure my brain is too small
fleet anchor
So
It looks like forcing CT before the second Rupture is neutral
So it's kinda whatever I guess
That's with this behavior forced
It's kinda just gonna be whatever since it probably won't even change the total number of DoT ticks within Vendetta
scarlet sequoia
i dont think thats because ct is forced
i think thats because 6 cp rupture is forced
so it just cts instead
if the mutilate doesnt give u 3+ cp
fleet anchor
Yes in the current APL that is the cause of the waffling
I'm just testing the case when it actually happens specifically to see if it's better or worse than the alternative
bleak spoke
man it feels so upsetting to lose those hasted garrote ticks
but i guess in a way it doesn't matter
cuz you'd "get" the ticks anyway or whatever
fleet anchor
Yes
bleak spoke
and it ends at the same time in the rotation kinda
fleet anchor
It actually doesn't affect the SS ticks at all
bleak spoke
so you never actually delay the vanish at all
bleak spoke
in that sense koji if you did play PB
would it be worth it to envenom
in the same spot you hit ct
fleet anchor
I mean I think the APL would already do that
bleak spoke
oh
fleet anchor
in 5CP cases
bleak spoke
apparently i have been inting
fleet anchor
But yeah @scarlet sequoia , changing the threshold to 5CP instead of 6CP is neutral too so ultimately all this stuff ends up trading off
bleak spoke
thanks for working on this btw koji, you're the best
fleet anchor
As long as you use some finisher with 5CP