Rockboi is friend
#assassination
red bloom
fleet anchor
lol Lucid is so funny
vital haven
honestly i really prefer blood
fleet anchor
It could have been good but we've just gotten more and more energy the longer into the xpac
fleet anchor
Crazy how good Lucid is for like Arms Warriors for example
fleet whale
i mean it APPEARS lucid major should be very good with 3 DD
but even back in EP it really wasn't for whatever reason
fleet anchor
The problem really is that NP and/or Exsang allows us to do our whole Vendetta window without any Energy problems
It's the rest of the fight where our energy historically has sucked, but we don't do damage there anyway
Compare that to something like Arms where they are resource-limited for their big burst window
So it scales them massively
fleet whale
well, they also have a certain azerite trait...
fleet anchor
I really wish Lucid was more "special" for more classes
Like they did stuff special for Fire Mages since they don't actually have Mana as an important resource
And it's really strong
For us, would Energy really be the best?
fleet whale
make the SoO 4 piece set bonus into an azerite trait
fleet whale
every ability you cast during vendetta increases your mastery
verbal sparrow
Those unlimited juicy cps with stratagem
fleet whale
and rogues especially assassin has historically been energy starved
fleet anchor
Like if we could sit there in Vendetta spamming Envenom every global it would be a lot more Arms-Warrior-like 😛
fleet whale
it's just all the stuff in BFA that we have been given has changed that
HFC was envenom spam bascially
fleet anchor
Also would have been more flexible since Outlaw has NEVER needed the Energy from Lucid
verbal sparrow
Tbh if you have both rup and g on target. Energy isnt that bad
vital haven
your second vendetta has a weird cast sequence @last crown , you vendettad then you vanished and garroted three times
fleet anchor
Since their cooldown already gives them Energy
vital haven
then you exsanged like 10 seconds later
fleet whale
but what about the minor
vital haven
also ye starting the fight using vanish is not ideal either lul
fleet anchor
Minor gives enough resource on its own
fleet whale
the energy refund was pretty big for awhile
last crown
your second vendetta has a weird cast sequence @last crown , you vendettad then you vanished and garroted three times
@vital haven yeah i think i didnt have exsang up and lagged a bit on the garrote so triple casted
last crown
should i be delaying the vanishgarrote for exsang cd?
vital haven
well ideally your second set of cds everything should line up
toxic tree
Hey guys I have a question, I just started playing Rogue arena. What do WW monks do while Fisting that makes me unable to do anything to themn??? Cant kidney, cant Envenom, etc
It seems insane
vital haven
because you are holding vendetta for vanish anyways
vapid scarab
honor talent makes them parry during FoF
toxic tree
oh what thats insane
vapid scarab
you can step>kidney them since they can't parry from behind
last crown
exsang with 45 cd will line up with vanish???
vital haven
but because you started at the beginning of the fight using vanish that didnt happen
vapid scarab
that's a parry
toxic tree
does that parry abilities or just white hits?
vapid scarab
same with evasion
vapid scarab
if you get behind them you can
last crown
@vital haven anything else stand out? obviously not-small mistakes but trying to figure out why my parses are so damn low and hoping the answer isnt just kill time+gear
toxic tree
wait, you can hit a rogue with evasion if youre behind him??
vapid scarab
that's how dodges and parries work
toxic tree
is there a difference between dodge and parry?
vital haven
yes @toxic tree
vapid scarab
or if you use abilities that can't be dodged or parried
vital haven
hmm
vapid scarab
ie. FoK, blind, etc
toxic tree
I dont understand the difference between dodge and parry
I main casters if you couldnt tell
vapid scarab
there isn't one
vital haven
looking at kill time prob shouldve delayed clf and berserking (troll racial) for your 3rd set of cooldowns
@last crown
not really that good with analyzing logs tbh lul
last crown
thats fair - wasnt sure how long wed go but should ahve known
i hate my logs being this bad =\
vital haven
once you start knowing the kill times it helps with cooldown management
last crown
id much rather blame it on my sim only being 76k and our kills taking a long time 😉
vital haven
does the exsang build sim higher for you than the normal build?
vital haven
hmm ok
dull osprey
So I'm confused. I've been trying to run raidbots to sim potential corruptions (more expedients) and it's saying I need to replace 1 rank 3 MF with 3 expedient 3 to have an increase of only 300 dps.
normal olive
Hey small question i just got a 440 coral how exactly do i use it ^^
dull osprey
are the sims not accurately showing it because they show the ideal proc rate of MF?
civic forge
does vita start simming well when you get all the expedients on your gear? so far im exp 6 tendy 4 and atm its worse than my 475 galecaller and 465 spyglass
drifting cloud
sim doesnt account for party buff
dull osprey
mm that makes sense. and at a certain point, expedient build can make exang better than tb right?
drifting cloud
yeah its a very gear dependant build
quaint saffron
So i just got the razor coral trinket, how frequently should i be procing it
bleak spoke
@vital haven I’m back to playing tb builds cuz our kill times are fucking ass I hate this
Also I miss raiding with you 
oblique pewter
ok everyone in here
i've been playing outlaw for the last few weeks
give me the best argument to go Assassination
(i've both cara daggers)
bleak spoke
Boss damage is consistently incredible
oblique pewter
I mostly arena and mythic +
bleak spoke
Even in a world of hunters and mages
lime edge
outlaw is dog in arena
bleak spoke
Oh
lime edge
ass is still rlly good in mythics
bleak spoke
I wouldn’t play sin in key if you’re an outlaw main
lime edge
not far, no
oblique pewter
the usual group I run with
lacks ST
and has a lot of cc
even my outlaw CC is too much
lime edge
what level keys do u run
oblique pewter
ok we gucci
oblique pewter
I've both
oblique pewter
i've 43% crit as outlaw
i'll lack haste
but i've some rings/enchant/gems to fill this up
drifting cloud
if you play eb you wont do more st as outlaw in keys
lime edge
rlly?
lime edge
echoing blades
oblique pewter
gotta figure that out
oblique pewter
this is my current outlaw stuff
(just got back on the game 1 week ago tho don't be mean)
oblique pewter
well thats patchwerk
oblique pewter
it's gonna be two by tomorrow
normal olive
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tXiadoEVf4uFsVdHGjJWxK
Cries in bote 2 and trinket
oblique pewter
check how hard I caught up in 7 days
hey
is Simcraft app still good tho ? I can't pay for raidbots so
lime edge
raidbots has a free version
its kinda booty, but yea
simcraft doesnt have top gear
afaik
oblique pewter
fk
strange python
raidbots is a frontend to simulationcraft
ebon forge
5 more days to unlock r3
and need more for breath of the dying cuz im just honored with uldum
ebon forge
need 10k..
last crown
lustrous is BiS for sin with haste build? not vita+coral?
fathom swift
Galecallers is also really good and can sim better with apl adjustments for it with exsang
arctic walrus
but it's also galecallers and fights are often too volatile for it to be used effectively
verbal sparrow
damn you made me wondering what is lustrous, then I realized it's a plumage lol
fathom swift
Yeah it can def take some getting used to and timing can be awkward on some fights, but it's worth mentioning
Most fights dont have movement so constant that you cant use it effectively
neon berry
Anybody got a link to a solid raid guide?
verbal sparrow
I think galecasters is a good trinket even overall, I'd like to drop it someday because I think like 6 bosses in Nyalotha are free to not move at all while bursting so..
fathom swift
Even if you just hold it for exsang like current apl thats the majority of the strength of the haste buff
verbal sparrow
how much does the 475 version gives haste ?
I think i'm stoopid because I think I opened galecallers from weekly last week if i'm not mistaken and just threw it away, it was before I realized it might be a good trinket...
fathom swift
Idr but yeah if you have 475 def keep it
verbal sparrow
well unfortunately I threw it away... I think I just should stop cleaning my inv that often of things I don't need at that moment.
normal olive
can't you recover it?
fathom swift
Yeah just item restore it
magic fossil
guys, give me a direction, should i change every TA for expedient?
delicate bone
So quick question, my sims have me going haste gems all across the board instead of crit, i currently only have 1 epedient 3, should i still switch from crit to haste?
last crown
can you upgrade the ilvl of pvp gear as you climb? or do you have to get it again?
ebon forge
guys
hearty birch
is there a guide on how much energy i should pool before toxic blade?
ebon forge
im at 1601 rating 2v2 atm( got it before the reset last week ), got conflict and strife r2 on wednesday, do i have to play more arena to get the item or its fine i stop ?
worldly sandal
healer bit band from my 16 workshop lets go. ready for my 100% healing parse on maut tomorrow
fathom swift
You barely need to pool with current haste levels just like dont envenom immediately before or anything
hearty birch
I c I c, I just picked my alt rogue back up after 8.2, probably dont have the right stats/haste
hearty birch
also, is SS the way to go again?
balmy condor
It’s not worth giving it that much attention
hearty birch
I hated playing double dose build which made me quit rogue
balmy condor
They’re both good
balmy condor
SS/exsang becomes usable at around 35-40% haste unbuffed for most people
Don’t think of it as a breakpoint
But that’s generally where I see the sims switching to exsang
hearty birch
yeah im wayy below that
balmy condor
Some people had high ss azerite, so they could’ve swapped lower, I can’t get a 480 SS helm for the life of me
hearty birch
probably need some expedients
balmy condor
So my switch was closer to 40
hearty birch
makes sense
hearty birch
yeah for sure
balmy condor
Just like the advice for saving your project files, save often, save early
Sim often, sim early
And it’ll all be a-o-k
hearty birch
yup
patent topaz
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5M4GUKup5AahUyynHibGjB azerite is not ideal but still only 1k below my DD. Coral seems like 
though
balmy condor
Yeah coral is just good
indigo cloak
guys do you think i should play SS/exsang build for mythic raden progres ? i have bis azerite gear, but only 1x rank 3 expedient, 2x rank 3 honed mind, and some others like mind flays, severe etc. When i sim patchwerk, my best sim goes with DD and TD build. But the thing is, always 2 adds are Up on that fight, so it might do crazy good value from SS exsang build, what do you think ? Im not playing assa for long time (only like moth or so)
balmy condor
Exsang is nice priority damage for adds if your raid needs it
indigo cloak
in my opinion, we need it 😄
balmy condor
Then I would try it yeah
As long as you aren’t losing out on too much damage by switching
balmy condor
I’m not too familiar with DD vs SS specifically on that fights timing
I think the adds roughly line up with exsang
But I would think that if you’re the one pumping into the add
Exsang has good burst
But TB/DD could keep up if you time your TB windows
You would be full on the add that way
In general, I would suggest looking through logs for timings on the adds
And comparing to the damage your raid needs
And seeing how that lines up with the burst windows for both tb and exsang on your char
If you get more burst with exsang in that window, that’s a win
I want to say that exsang will be more priority damage, but I would test it to be sure
Especially since you say you don’t have a lot of exped/haste
indigo cloak
thanks @balmy condor
ebon forge
which helm tho
balmy condor
Will unlock it
balmy condor
Wdym which Helm
ebon forge
i thought its a specific helm xD
balmy condor
+5 ilvl is the last azerite trait on every piece of azerite
balmy condor
Probably cause you haven’t played long enough
ebon forge
87
ebon forge
cant see it lol
balmy condor
What helm can’t you take the trait on
balmy condor
Okay
ebon forge
i thought i would be able to see it in game
balmy condor
So what’s the problem?
I thought you weren’t able to take the trait
Am I misunderstanding
indigo cloak
i have 28% haste unbuffed
balmy condor
Personally I would sim patchwerk to see how much DPS I’m losing/gaining in general
And then I would log a couple tests on a dummy or a boss or whatever
- Exsang without vendetta/vanish
- Exsang with vendetta/vanish
- Tb
And then compare how much damage I was able to put out in that time in each scenario
fathom swift
You dont need to use exsang to use subterfuge with or without a ss trait on raden, but itll prob be better if you stack them
indigo cloak
okay
balmy condor
But yeah, subt is simming higher for a lot people even without ss
But ss/subt is synergy
Subt especially gets better with multiple targets, like raden
indigo cloak
yea and i got all 3 pieces with SS
balmy condor
I would also suggest looking at other top logs
fathom swift
Esp on prog if you do 3 orbs you can vanish on 1st and 3rd adds
balmy condor
Even though a lot of them is cheese with infinite stars and tendies and other garbage
^ Exactly for info like that
indigo cloak
i did, and all top logs are SS exsang build 😄
after "post-nerf II"
with tons of expedient
balmy condor
Yeah, I would double check if your char can pull it off
indigo cloak
ye, thats why im asking, but i will test it out
balmy condor
There’s a lot of builds floating around atm
And it’s dependent on character
I’ve even seen some people running VoP major 3x NP still
indigo cloak
i have bis trinkets and azerites, i miss only coruptions 😄
fathom swift
Its not the worst to use 1 ss with subterfuge and just tb either if you dont have the expedients to make exsang good
balmy condor
Lot of talents and corruptions and azerites to swap around compared to something like fire mage or bm hunter or boomies
I agree
echo haven
Guys how do you see the sin rogue in shadowlands? Will it be good?
balmy condor
Too early to tell
It’s beta for a reason
Literally everything can change
Alpha*
Rogue as a whole, will be fine
Rogues are almost always necessary in some way
Unless you’re a top 100 guild, I wouldn’t worry too much
indigo cloak
this coruption and azerite swaping all around seems little overwhelming to me 😄
i cant wait for shadowlands tbh 😄
echo haven
Thx nmate
balmy condor
Just stack exped, switch to exsang when it’s better, stack severe/strike though or TD for m+
That’s basically the short form
indigo cloak
for m+ im always going outlaw
balmy condor
Then even less to worry about
indigo cloak
i just want to figure out current raid meta 😄
balmy condor
Something like that yeah
Quick math and some pattern recognition
I say maybe 3-4 weeks
Closer to 3
indigo cloak
time to farm echoes 😄 😄
snow hamlet
Hi guys, I sim that major VoP with 3NP is better than major BotE with 3DD. So it’s fine to use?
balmy condor
You’re a weirdo but yeah probably fine for now
tropic ocean
sure
depending on how much the difference is its your choice to not play it though
as it has more rng involved than the latter
balmy condor
Ye
tropic ocean
like personally I wouldnt bother for small gain
echo haven
How is exsang build in m+?
tropic ocean
strong
glacial jasper
got that 465 plummage bois
balmy condor
3xDD 3xSS 3xNP is all viable
GENERALLY SPEAKING
3xDD is usually the go to with lower haste
3xSS is usually better with more exped
3xNP is an awkward rng bastard child
They’re all viable tho
tropic ocean
3dd is good with lots of haste too
balmy condor
Yeah
normal olive
3xNP sounds fun
tropic ocean
its just different kind of builds with different goals
balmy condor
exsang scales a little harder
tropic ocean
but for many fights 3 ss is just superior due to cleave, or because of fight design like nzoth
icy oasis
Hey guys, I have a question about Blood of the Enemy, when should I use it, right after opener with Exa?
balmy condor
Right after exsang
icy oasis
Though so, thanks!
balmy condor
Np
balmy condor
I mean, it’s VoP major
That’s kinda what it does
Such is the payoff
You’ll have pulls where it’s just proccing over and over
And pulls where it doesn’t proc at all
¯_(ツ)_/¯
snow hamlet
VoP major rng , more appendage rng , it’s maybe a terrible choice lul
tropic ocean
well it eventually evens out over x pulls but
balmy condor
And the appendage taketh
tropic ocean
personally would always take the more consistent choice even if its a little lower dps wise
especially for progress
tropic ocean
can be really bad when you have high damage variance due to procs
I remember when we were just progressing nzoth and 4 tents proc on psychus and we killed it 20sec ahead of timer compared to the exact phasing at 2.30
balmy condor
It’s also mega annoying for raid leads
tropic ocean
generally consistency makes progression easier
in every aspect
same reason many guilds stick with inferior strats because they are working
balmy condor
#nochanges
Worked for limit
If I had a nickle for every time max told firedup to shut up and not change anything
Man Id be rich
cobalt gyro
re-learning takes more time than making a scuffed strat work usually
balmy condor
Yeah
turbid osprey
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pnbWZMdAJ4VDQm3x79h7nP exsang beating tb by a phat 103 dps 😄
tropic ocean
time to have fun!!
balmy condor
That’s huge dude
turbid osprey
look forward to playing it horrendously while i learn it hahaha
normal olive
Is exsang with high mastery a high dps increase or is it still worth playing tb
slow tulip
normal olive
since i really dislike exsang
balmy condor
Mastery is kinda yucky
In general
But idk, seems like it would favor tb a little more
Sim it
normal olive
i'm currently at 43% haste unbuffed and exsang is a 600 dps increase
balmy condor
Big smile
600 DPS is starting to be noticeable imo
If you hate it
Don’t play it
normal olive
Dunno just got used to tb since legion ^^
balmy condor
Pins say 1-1.5% at the high end exsang vs tb
So realistically? Probably doesn’t matter
normal olive
Hmh since i probably won't do any mythic raiding i'm fine with that
balmy condor
Yeah in that case it’s even bigger whatever
Heroic is a stomp these days, especially with more corruption vendor shenanigans in the coming weeks
Stack mastery and play master poisoner, the world is your oyster man
Whatever makes you happy xD
please don’t do that though
normal olive
Well i only have 1 nhc clear and like 5 bosses hc down since i pug everything ._. doing top dps with only vision loot is depressing
balmy condor
Pugs are depressing
Just in general
Regardless of what you’re doing
I wasn’t able to be on for my guilds heroic run
And I actually struggled more to find a normal n’zoth kill for my alt than a heroic run for my main, it’s weird
But tldr: TB is fine, just stack haste, and you’re basically optimal
normal olive
Yeah thought so thanks!
I'm just doing as the sims tell me to ^^
as long as it's not exsang
balmy condor
Lmao
slow tulip
@balmy condor my DD build sims 100K now and the SS one 101, but it can inc with another 1 if i get the correct head, but tl:dr im too used to DD and TB by now and we are 200 pull in in nzoth so im not changing the playstyle
verbal sparrow
Is it worth waiting for Vita proc when you're doing second burst ?
balmy condor
Probably not
Vita proc isn’t huge op massive
It’s like, decent
But waiting for the stars to align probably is a level of micromanaging that isn’t worth
verbal sparrow
well when I think of it I could hold my cooldowns till shadowlands release and that trinket still wouldnt pop
especially with my luck in these kind of things
balmy condor
This whole patch has an incredible amount of rng that people try to control
Realistically, stuff like trinket lineups just aren’t valuable enough to give attention to imo
verbal sparrow
well true, one apphendage procs and it basically overdmgs your rotation lol
balmy condor
Yeah, couple of missed crits and you’re perfectly optimized 20 dps sim increase is meaningless
People just always try to see the biggest numbers
And sometimes that means rabbit hole-ing themselves Into a dps loss xD
strange python
how come exsanguinate sims higher for me even tho i dont run any SS?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mVsrHHFknnaRZcitriWhGB
i must be overseeing some shit
balmy condor
Cause it’s good
verbal sparrow
I also wonder if it's worth just going for envenom when having 5/6 cp or just overcap that one cp to go for full. I'm usually going for like after 5+ I'm going for it, rupture only at 6
toxic timber
how come exsanguinate sims higher for me even tho i dont run any SS?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mVsrHHFknnaRZcitriWhGB
@strange python looks like u got 1 SS on ur shoulders
balmy condor
Oh see, I didn’t even see that
Cause raidbots mobile on anything other than top gear
vestal dune
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/PHcXz3gfTwbWLaCJ/#fight=6&type=casts&source=1&view=timeline did I get really lucky with something in that log that I am not seeing? I beat my sim by 3-4K but I have so many toxic blades fucked by mechanics
visual pawn
Do you use ven with vanish if you play MA
balmy condor
Yes mnk
Could be a lot of things traint
There’s a lot of rng, especially this patch, and you’re running an appendage
I didn’t look too close
But generally, there’s a lot of rng going into a pull
A sim shows the average, not the max
So if you had an above average pull, it’s possible that you’ll be above your sim
For example you had almost 50% mutilate crit
That’s a lot of extra envenoms
When I ran twisted appendages, my dps used to swing 15k, sometimes 20k
vestal dune
I thought it was normal with the crit pot + MA, just got back in the game so I don't have many logs to campare with
and that's my 1st one using preprots
I also got 4 appendage procs, which I don't know if it's lucky
balmy condor
It’s possible, but crit pots and ma are only responsible for a portion of the fight
Id say 50% with that gear seems pretty good
4 appendage procs is about average
Maybe a little higher
vestal dune
Makes sense yeah
balmy condor
Either way
Lot of rng goes into it
Double check that you’re running the sim with equal conditions
If your raid is running vita, that’s haste that it doesn’t compute
vestal dune
Oooh, true, that the are buffs this tier that buff the raid
balmy condor
Fire mages give mastery as well from something, if you got that going that’ll be something you have over the sim
vestal dune
Makes sense then
balmy condor
There’s a couple other things I don’t remember
I would double check the sim first to see if you’re using the same stuff
And then if you are, blame rng xD
vestal dune
Hahah, I just refused to believe a fight where I was using crimson vials and feints and fucked up toxic blades was better than a patchwerk sim
Alright, gimme a sec and I sim myself
snow hamlet
Sry but what is MA
snow hamlet
Ty
balmy condor
Np
balmy condor
Your flame did more as well
vestal dune
i think I opened the fight with 1 or 2 stacks
vestal dune
Damn, sucks getting this lucky while my gear still sucks 😦
But thanks for the help analyzing!
strange python
SS scales better with target count right? SS sims like 2k less for me but thats pure ST
tropic ocean
i usually have 80-90% uptime
balmy condor
strange python
then i should be running SS from now on other than the first bosses and the dog but no1 cares about them anyway
tyvm ausr
strange python
yeah but i dont have the raden helm nor the azerite vendor helms
tropic ocean
But def the play in raden hivemind drest nzoth
strange python
so rn it sims less in ST
balmy condor
Edit it again ausr you wont
strange python
but idm those 1-2k with more targets
tropic ocean
and for fast kill times at least for me it was already outsimming tb dd before i had so many expedients
Might be different with nzoth shoulder maybe
mossy valve
do we just want % vers for pvp
tropic ocean
Yes
mossy valve
gay
tropic ocean
mix in vers proc on dmg taken if you like
mossy valve
just annoying cause i didnt have any echoes cause spent on expedient
so now we get to wait forever till we see it again lol
tropic ocean
well everyone has the same issue pretty much
u want different corruptions for raid /m+/ pvp
twin bay
haste vers
tropic ocean
20% haste afaik rest vers
mossy valve
ripo
mossy valve
thanks homie
rigid eagle
hey @tropic ocean if i have 30% haste with 0 exped
how high can i get with double exped 3?
just like really roughly
rigid eagle
i have about 2k of the stat, and that translates into 30%
crimson palm
why'd u care about that
rigid eagle
because i feel like it'll still be a while until i see exped 3 again lol
tropic ocean
I think 68 haste is 1%? at 120?
so 2 expedient will give u somewhat about 7% haste
before procs
I guess
unkempt karma
So you need like 2,5k to make the spec work?
tropic ocean
no
the spec works with anything
depending on your gear somewhen exsang 3 ss will take over for st dps over traditional dd build
while stacking haste corruptions
the haste value at which that happens varies from character to character due to gearing
rigid eagle
@tropic ocean i see thx
tropic ocean
but also depends a lot on traits on azerite
unkempt karma
I’ve mainly played outlaw, so testing things out and my stats weight are Crit Vers Mastery
Guess I need better azerite as well
Sorry I meant traits*
tropic ocean
probably yeah
haste gets really good when u stack expedient corruption due to filling dead gcds and scaling very good with bleeds and exsang ( when you have the appropriate azerite for it)
gleaming cosmos
What are the appropriate azerite traits in an ideal world for an exsang build
unkempt karma
SS mainly and ?
gleaming cosmos
Cuz atm my rogue sits at 40% haste
So i need 3xSS and which other traits would be optimal?
twin bay
heart of darkness, blightborne infusion, the mechagon one...so everything that gives stats is good
and 3xss ofc
tropic ocean
highest simming afaik 2 hod 1 bbi 3 ss (due to chest being 490 i guess)
but yeah clockwork thing is good as well
twin bay
might be good on shorter fights idk^^
tropic ocean
the shorter the fight the better the exsang build
twin bay
i meant clockwork 😛
tropic ocean
well I it procs every minute?
ideally you want a fight that is 1.12 or 2:12 or so I guess?
so it ends shortly after the proc
or does it just randomly proc within 1 minute
never used it so dunno 😄
strange python
Hi everyone, is Assa ignored in Myth+ invites? I just capped a rogue and i can't stand Outlaw...
Will i get invited anyway if i just play assa?
spare dust
assa is very good
tropic ocean
@strange python up to some point
I pugged assa to 3.4k rio without bigger problems
occasional ppl decline me or kick me because of spec
arctic walrus
if you just capped a rogue though, your chance of having the correct gear that makes sin excel is probably low
tropic ocean
guess it really starts to matter at 23 or 24 but u rarely see these in pug anyway so for everything up to 15 it should have 0 issues
strange python
I pugged assa to 3.4k rio without bigger problems
@tropic ocean I mean 3.4 is great. I just wanna play PvP and weekly +15 chest
so i guess i should be good anyway
thanks 🙂
tropic ocean
yeah just play whatever u like
twin bay
yep
tropic ocean
sin is somewhat more harder to gear so keep that in mind
took me until this week until I had bis azerite
strange python
sin is somewhat more harder to gear so keep that in mind
@tropic ocean may i know why?
tropic ocean
because you need specific azerite which is limited to pieces from azerite vendor
jovial spear
Stacking SS and EB for M+ right?
tropic ocean
while outlaw can easily get gear from raid as well
jovial spear
Tough combo to get
tropic ocean
in most cases yeah
like for outlaw u dont necessarily need bis, raden helm is good
cara chest is good
trait-wise
jovial spear
Do you run Crimson Tempest aswell? Or Poison Bomb?
tropic ocean
depends on group/dungeon
for fortified ur/fh/sots stuff like that ct yeah
for kr/tos/ws/siege poison bomb pretty much in every affix
jovial spear
kk, thanks 🙂
twin bay
tbf in lowkeys/pugs where they often just pull 4, 5 mobs at a time i'd rather play assa even with unoptimized gear
strange python
Thanks alot for the advices 🙂
tropic ocean
theres no 100% correct answer most players i encountered including me often just pick what they like to play more
difference between pb/ct is not super high
and pb is just nobrain so if u dont want to keep track of another dot wouldnt bother
orchid solstice
Could someone explain the perceived negative of expedient II instead of III
Maximum you can wear atm of III is like 84% ish (7 items) which costs 35k
But with expedient II you can also get 9 items of it for 37k and get 81%
So it’s clear that it is SLIGHTLY more expensive for echoes but in terms of output it is no different just weighing up the time needed for echoes over time waiting for III
arctic walrus
you literally stated every point for why exp 3 is better than exp 2
orchid solstice
Well the % is the same if you just buy more
arctic walrus
then try and argue against exp 3
orchid solstice
Cause you’d have to wait 3 more weeks
analog seal
Two things to consider: Corruption efficiency and slot efficiency. exp 3 is definitely more slot efficient, will leave the others to say if it's more corruption efficient.
grizzled trail
buying one or two rank 2 is totally fine
u got plenty of time to save for more rank 3
arctic walrus
3 more weeks for more haste, cheaper cost, more allowance for other corruption
frigid briar
Is rank 2 haste up now?
orchid solstice
No
tropic ocean
I dont see any reason to buy r2 other than wanting the current dps gain for progress
arctic walrus
new vendor in 15 hours infexious
arctic walrus
you'll need 1
grizzled trail
its hardly a grind
arctic walrus
but that's it
frigid briar
Yeah, i guess its a weird one for people still progressing
orchid solstice
Will we ever be able to equip 12% in every slot though
grizzled trail
buying 1 rank 2 isnt goin to break u long run like u seem to think
tropic ocean
it makes u farm more long run yes
frigid briar
If your close to killing nzoth then rank 2s might be better but yeah. If on farm wait for rank 3s
tropic ocean
@orchid solstice depends on how confident u are to play over 60 corruption
orchid solstice
On outlaw very but I don’t trust myself on assa as much
orchid solstice
Fair enough
twin bay
@frigid briar u still make yt stuff? havent seen a vid from you in a long time =/
frigid briar
Yeah, just covid 19 times
grizzled trail
hes too busy drinking tonic in the sun
frigid briar
Tonic sold out still :(
grizzled trail
poor show my dude, got like 3 bottles in the fridge atm
orchid solstice
Anyways thanks for the discussion - im not prog right now as Nzoth is dead but might buy 1-2 9% just to kick start the build a little - or maybe I’ll wait IDEK 🙈
I’ll just wing it
frigid briar
Yeah also if you wanna swap but dont have the gear
Few rank 2s will help it get going.
unkempt karma
If vendor adds severe or strikethrough I cant go assi anyway ^^
frigid briar
I have 25k echos and 4 ranks 3s. I changed before I had that though just because playstyles feels better to me. The change of pace was nice.
twin bay
true i kinda got bored with my rogue
tropic ocean
for the earlier discussion about killtime
going from 5 min to 3 min (most farmbosses)
faint harness
severe rank 2 into rank 3?
tropic ocean
sim goes from 105k to 114k
tropic ocean
so killtime def insane with exsang
@frigid briar good thing with severe strikethrough is, by the time fortified bursting volcanic is up again, you'll have all corruptions
frigid briar
Id like to see some kind of pattern develope with the vendor. I wanna plan my spending
unkempt karma
I'm only at 16k echoes ^^
twin bay
and u dont need to pray for TA...i had 99k on maut without a single TA procc (2 cara daggers) 70 cor doing nothing feels fkn dumb
tropic ocean
dunno why they dont just release all at once though but good for me so I dont need to force me to grind
bad for ppl still progressing
frigid briar
I actually have like rank 9 strike though or something. Just passively got it from visions I think
Im still not sure if I liked exp rank 3 being first on vendor
I bought 4 ranks 3s, but if it came in now I could fill slots
tropic ocean
I did, I got 5 the day it was released
first time my lazyiness paid off bunkering 17k echoes
:>
frigid briar
Lol
twin bay
i did more m+ in these 3 days than the rest of bfa xD
unkempt karma
I started with 0 echoes
twin bay
same
frigid briar
I started with 0 aswell
twin bay
my alts with 15k +
shut garnet
you should roughly get 10k a week so no biggie
frigid briar
Bought 4 rank 3s 1 vers and have like 24k saved up
twin bay
in a week...when u have 3 days yeah right^^
frigid briar
PvP is pretty fast farm
unkempt karma
I got like 16k atm. 7 visions left to do, some hc, and so forth
tropic ocean
well u can get 2 corruptions per week by minimal effort
royal lantern
^
tropic ocean
I mean u do 5 visions per week anyway working towards sockets
frigid briar
2k from daily cache or suhin
tropic ocean
but even if u do less
royal lantern
doing minimal effort, got 2
tropic ocean
like im the laziest fucker when it comes to quest or anything
royal lantern
5visions are you nuts
tropic ocean
I dont do cache, I dont island, no wq only assaults
royal lantern
2 it is
unkempt karma
so is it, visions + hc/mythic raid, world quests and m+ farm that we focus on? also assaults
tropic ocean
and I got 2
frigid briar
Good thing is, I got haste mastery in all slots
unkempt karma
I did 8 visions last week
unkempt karma
got 7 left to do ^^
tropic ocean
if u into that
frigid briar
Just need vendor to come up and im done
royal lantern
if you want the max, ye 2v2 arena rated
frigid briar
Yeah thats what I did ausr
unkempt karma
so 2vs2 is the way to go, what it is ? 125 per win?
royal lantern
deepens on you rank
frigid briar
Depends rating to an extent
tropic ocean
50-x
royal lantern
but low ranks->more ez too win->2v2 matches take like 2min max
tropic ocean
but at low cr u finish game in 2min so fastest echoes/hour
tropic ocean
they really did good improvement with echoes farm its very casual friendly right now
frigid briar
I have like 700 days played on rogue
tropic ocean
well I only play since end of tos so its pretty nolife 😄
not accounting other chars
frigid briar
Yeah thats a lot
verbal sparrow
is that electronic useable wrist from junk good ?
tropic ocean
thin horizon
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
indigo cloak
i runned couple sims on patchwerk and my SS + exsang is 2k less dps than my current equiped gear which is 2x twist of knife , DD, NP
So probably ss+ exsa will be more efficient on boss + add fights rights than my current build right ?
frigid briar
Yeah, you could be lacking the gear to make it +DPS in ST
tropic ocean
yes
you can also sim different durations (exsang ss usually pulls way better the shorter the fight is)
so if u kill a boss in 4min over 5min sim might already be stronger for that
frigid briar
I think 1 is decent, If it procs in the opener on short fights it can really carry
if you have loads of exp that is
primal turret
So its worth to keep it untill expedient III can be bought again right?
frigid briar
yeah, Currently im forced to run one rank 3 masterful and 1 racing pulse.
glacial steppe
yo, I see a lot of people playing the exsang build with blood as major, is that a thing now? thought CLF was straight up better
frigid briar
but i'll be switching them to exp rank 3 asap
CLF is fight dependant imo, kill times is another factor
primal turret
when you say rank 7 you mean 2 rank 3 and 1 rank 1?
glacial steppe
@frigid briar yeah, but considering its mythic you'll probably get 2x CLF anyways
(in most guilds that is)
tropic ocean
clf sims better yeah
but it doesnt line very well and the guardian sometimes bugs out and loses casts
479 dps difference for me so
fuck it
😄
glacial steppe
1.8k for me
vital tapir
CLF doesn't work better for me simwise tbh
warm parcel
no so far ive not seen any proof it "bugs out"
and no it doesnt care about kill time as the only meaningful cast is your first cast
you can just not cast the second and still outperform bote
warm parcel
remove it in apl
vital tapir
I'm interested too
glacial steppe
how do I do that? want to test
warm parcel
its the haste on opener that matters
tropic ocean
warm parcel
and %dmg
warm parcel
yea but folks go around here preaching x as truth
glacial steppe
formless better than iris for you? 
warm parcel
when they dont even know what they talking bout
tropic ocean
I dont use iris in fights with lots of target switches cuz cba
but yeah iris better for me ofc
glacial steppe
i wish formless was better so i can justify to use my rank 4 essence which is the only loot i got so far from nzoth 
glacial steppe
no lucid?
vital tapir
what's your haste tho?
glacial steppe
wondering too, im at 58% unbuffed rn and lucid is still better for me i think
vital tapir
bc I know that if I didn't have lucid I'd be out of energy pretty often
I'm even lower, think 32%
glacial steppe
well that makes sense then
vital tapir
didn't have any luck with corruptions so far
trying to get expedient from that corr vendor now
never seen it before
glacial steppe
@tropic ocean what symbiotic uptime do you sim, 90%?
tropic ocean
y
glacial steppe
is that what you actually get or just for the sims
crimson palm
it does bug out on precast openers
main forge
Is it normal for me to cap energy during Vendetta and Heroism? I feel like I can't spend the energy fast enough.
crimson palm
sometimes u get 26 hits, sometimes 36
glacial steppe
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4X9EKHro7duN5XDXp1tMnx guess ill give it a shot
warm parcel
26 casts seems about right from sims
tropic ocean
@main forge yes
warm parcel
more than that is lucky haste procs
crimson palm
maybe but u can see it there standing and not casting
warm parcel
Show me the guardian bugging out and maybe something could be done about it
Cause Ive not seen it afk
slow tulip
for me WR sims higher than CLF or bote in ST by 2K dps 😮
crimson palm
i can probably check vods from yesterday later
and see if it happened
i think i ran it on xanesh
glacial steppe
flame/formless interaction still buggy tho?
warm parcel
And if its tied to precombat, just pop it after garrotes
crimson palm
aye thats what we do
glacial steppe
iirc you could 'try' to cast cruicible with your back to the target which obviously wont work but you'd still get the formless buff
picked that up in the resto disc tho
warm parcel
No clue, but two tanks with flame will keep the buff on you
Add any reapers in your group and its permanently up
warm parcel
fair
slow tulip
hey guys, can i ask why noone plays WR while it sims so high
cuz the heavy movement
?
vital tapir
yeah, that explains it @tropic ocean
ty for sharing tho!
tropic ocean
because its stationary
glacial steppe
@warm parcel yeah just confirmed it
tropic ocean
and for many it just doesnt sim better
vital tapir
just wondering tho, what corruptions do you have for it to be so high?
glacial steppe
you can cast cruc with your back to target, wont go on cd
but you get formless buff
tropic ocean
@vital tapir me?
vital tapir
yeah
tropic ocean
just expedient
vital tapir
how many of 'em?
warm parcel
not that that would matter
crimson palm
all of em
warm parcel
it is already up all the time with just tanks
vital tapir
ty
warm parcel
casting it regularly
glacial steppe
yeah, cant think of a situation where you could abuse it too
tropic ocean
to blast
glacial steppe
maybe pvp? idk
slow tulip
@tropic ocean do you think im better with CLF or just stick with bote
specifically for nzoth mythic
im asking
thx in advance 🙂
crimson palm
clf is good if ur focusing nzoth only
depends on ur assignments
u get 2:30 5:30 8:30 11:30 overlaps
glacial steppe
sunday carapace, pray for dagger and chest bois
vital tapir
so I just use BotE
glacial steppe
would be huge 4k upgrade
tropic ocean
I just dont care for minor dps gain to bother with it
crimson palm
it aligns with everything on nzoth
slow tulip
thx guys, very helpful as always 🙂
vital tapir
n'zoth yeah, but haven't gone to n'zoth mythic haha
my guild's lost our main tank on vex so we're done for the tier I think
tropic ocean
for me personally maxing out your dps fine but im not top 50 raider or wf competitor or anything so fuck it gaining few dps for annoying playstyle
twin bay
f
tropic ocean
i think I'd even play exsang build if it was dps loss
just cuz of how convenient it is to not do nothing for 40% of the time
slow tulip
@tropic ocean i can agree on that :d
vital tapir
I've never given it a try tbh, I think I'll try it tho
tropic ocean
with my current gear my pooling in sim is down to 6-7% of action time
with better gear prolly <5%
giga playstyle
glacial steppe
tomorrow better be expedient 2
vital tapir
yeah
glacial steppe
actually my sim wants me to put formless over iris minor and not lucid
vital tapir
will it impact your energy regen in a huge way?
vital tapir
I mean, @tropic ocean said he doesn't need it, but I think that's not the case with everyone
as I said earlier, I'd just be out of energy the whole time with my haste
vital tapir
just a second, have to update it
my one's a couple of days old and I got better dice after that so I have to sim it now, but my gear's a bit on the weak side I think? 🤔
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9yaAn6DojHUWphWXBsMiXG
here it is @tropic ocean
tropic ocean
but thats not what we were talking about
manic tapir
Hey guys is there a pvp guide somewhere on the discord for assa please ?
tropic ocean
With expedients and exsang build at higher level lucid will overcap ur energy
So other minor is superior
tropic ocean
Already overcapping during bl
In #pvp in pins
Also recommend to eacht skillcapped youtube videos
leaden lichen
My sim is around the same as coldrunner. Where the fuck is the 20k more dps coming from? Just the expedients?
tropic ocean
Better gear ?
theres not much more improvements for my gear besides 475 plumage sockets