like to get the best setup to be under 40 or under 60 depending on what you want
#assassination
tropic ocean
lime edge
is it?
tropic ocean
ya
tropic ocean
in a sec
lime edge
kk
scarlet sequoia
30% uptime on average
fleet whale
racing pulse does proc a good amount
tropic ocean
it doesnt necessarily need to proc before exsang
its not like its bad when it just procs
fleet whale
Void ritual also isn't bad either assuming some of your friends are using it
lime edge
but is void better than pulse with enough friends?
tropic ocean
does it actually proc good with haste build?
I used it some time ago but the uptime was so
lime edge
same way worldvein is
tropic ocean
I mean even if it would be some lower
if its like idk 300 400 dps
or w/e
i gladly lose that dps to play under 60 corruption anyway
lime edge
i would never go over 59
i might if i could target the thing from beyond with a macro
lul
does deeper strat feel better to play with?
it sims 0.1% higher for me
just wondering
honest basin
With high enough haste it does feel quite good
tropic ocean
depends on raid I guess
in heroic I usually play 80-90 😄
did 120 on some pulls but healers got annoyed so lowered it
in mythic always 59
willow pulsar
My last eb build show me very high stat ratio for vers in aoe, not sure if versatile should be the way
tropic ocean
after a certain amount of crit versa is the best stat for echoing aoe
yeah
its correct
willow pulsar
I think for pure aoe vers corruption might be sligthly ahead
tropic ocean
maybe
willow pulsar
Probably gonna buy one or two just to have a backup
willow pulsar
Yeah, vers is still the worst stat for single so going like this is only one way
uncut walrus
What do you think of sin in MM+ ?
because i have to double spec for outlaw / sin and it takes too much time and gear to be perfect in each
outlaw for mm+ sin for raid
willow pulsar
You will get kicked from party from time to time for not beeing an outlaw, but beside that it is doing pretty fine
If you dream about 5k score you should probably stay as outlaw
tall rose
echoing void is still crap correct
turbid galleon
Yes
strange python
Any 4K+ sin rogues here? Curious what corruptions are considered bis in m+ for overall damage.
uncut walrus
how do i play BotE ?
strange python
Opener is in the Pins
And then with every Vendetta
You delay Bote for Vendetta
M+ Bote usage in Opener is also in the Pins, if you meant that
drifting cosmos
You don't go vers% because you don't have enough base vers to make it good
atomic willow
so with the expedient exxang build wouldn't haste/mastery be the gear you wanna put it on.....rogue in my guild said he was stacking expedient on all his 475+ haste/crit gear. But wouldnt't mastery be the way to go?
atomic willow
i knew that's the answer i'd get....thnx
rose sapphire
atomic willow
yep....just was thinking witht he emphasis on SS and bleeds mby mastery would overtake crit.....I been simming and will just keep up witht hat
drifting cosmos
I mean since we are all feelcraft here
Just look at how much crit you have when you are in full haste build
And think about when those dots/env in the opener didn't crit
grim hornet
i have a question for u guys. Im trying to swap from outlaw to assassination because i feel its gonna be better for some raid encounters but something is weird... Assassination still sims better with crit vers instead of haste/crit
dunno if this is because of the corruptions i have or shits like that tbh
should i still be using my expedient 3 in haste crit pieces?
drifting cosmos
Mostly you didn't put right gears in the sim
I think these days they allow you to put corruptions on wherever
So that's part of the Sim too
grim hornet
hmmm
ill check it and come back later then
maybe is because i have that very little haste that it sims worse cause i have 2 severe and 1 striketrhough already?
drifting cosmos
Yea, you want to go all out on haste then most likely crit
Sin is good on fights need boss dmg
Idk, unless padding, don't think there are many bosses good for outlaw
grim hornet
ye i was doing m+ mostly where i feel outlaw can be a monster but this week i started raiding and doing high m+ with tyranical... and i noticed that sin could have work better in those situations
still need good azerite traits to swap tbh
tropic ocean
it makes no sense to ask to use crit/haste or haste/mastery pieces
You should use your highest pieces available and balance your stat weights around that
raidbots will help you with that
you still want to use the highest ilvl pieces available for your character per slot and balance stat weights around it with raid bots
And yes with most highest accessible pieces mastery start to take over haste
For expedient build
for rest just sim top gear theres no correct answer unless you have access to every max ilvl item in the game
peak jungle
When running BotE - during the vanish window should it be env -> mut -> env or BotE -> env -> mut?
tropic ocean
with ma talent
peak jungle
Thanks!
lime edge
rustic fractal
I think you could run a bit more Shax
I try to cap out at like 209
210 is too much
astral onyx
is there a diminishing returns value with exp/haste stacking? I already feel like im energy capping during lust/vendetta window
(I'm at 3.1k haste 46% for reference)
supple compass
wait if im 1700 in 2s why does my pvp chest say its only giving 445
cobalt pelican
did you win a game
cobalt pelican
you have to cap your conquest and win a single game in 2v2 if you want your 2v2 rating to be your box
loud silo
how come when i cloak i still have 700 dots on me?
rancid bobcat
non-magical/undispellable dots
crisp sluice
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sgCw9zKZU3LzyZTKJdR1nK
Any advice for getting my ST up? I assume I should be stacking all mind flays + expedients (for MA build), any viable way for me to go ham with MA im not looking to swap to the cheese build of exsang and all expedients
strange python
even with dd+tb instead of ss+ex you want expedient and subterfuge
red bloom
is ss+ex really a cheese build?
fleet anchor
How do you mean?
strange python
its a legit build, not cheese
fleet anchor
I wouldn't say it's a cheese build, no. I mean it's the top simming build that doesn't involve Infinite Stars and probably better than Infinite Stars on a lot of farm boss fight lengths anyway. And doesn't rely on stupid RNG procs.
near coyote
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
fleet anchor
I got mostly done swapping my gear over to it last night and did a Heroic run just to get the feel for it again and it's really nice. I'm still using Mind Flay on weapons as a stopgap until tomorrow when I figure out which last two items to enchant with Expedient III and it felt really great to actually do reasonable damage even when TA was being dumb.
I'll be more than happy to dump the TA tomorrow too.
Being able to pull 105k on 3 minute pulls with my TA underperforming feels great and really I think the type of build we could have used during progression tbh. Having something more consistent is really nice.
fleet anchor
Considering a week or so ago I did 93k or something with TA doing 18% of my damage then do 105k with TA doing 9% of my damage with this build. It's a nice feeling. 😛
main blaze
Yeah I was only able to get two Exp3 last week, wish I had more time to farm
but I have enough for when it comes back in a few weeks
fleet anchor
I probably will leave my Mythic dagger as TA for a little while until I fill in my Corruption budget since I only have 4x Expedient IIIs and TA scales with ilevel.. might just using Racing Pulse instead though.
red bloom
my gear doesnt sim well enough for exang yet over my vop/np (actual cheese i feel haha) soon though, need a couple more expedients and better azerite, especially since I had to play my hunter on ilgy prog
fleet anchor
Yes you do have to push it over the edge before it gets worthwhile
Exsang gets better with more Haste and also gets quite a bit better with Deeper Stratagem
But you can't drop Vigor until you get enough Haste either
Once you do get enough it snowballs really fast
main blaze
Oh I hadnt seen people use Deeper, it makes sense that eventually vigor does nothing since its mostly energy regen.
Know the approx. haste value to drop it?
fleet anchor
Yes you definitely swap to Deeper, it's another 1.5-2%
red bloom
im at the point where deeper strategem is a solid pick over vigor with 49% haste atm
fleet anchor
Exsang basically lets you use more Ruptures
And Deeper makes your Ruptures bigger
You get a bit more out of the Exsanguinate period that way into Vendetta
I'd need to check my Haste levels
I don't remember exactly where the tipping point was where the Crit% stuff and whatnot was not showing as equal/better
feral creek
Does anybody have a 100k sim with under 60 corruption and even without mindflair or stars? @here
red bloom
pretty sure raz was at like 107k under 60 the other day
fleet anchor
I'm at 95k in my 39 set atm
But my full Expedient set will need a few sockets added to max out
feral creek
Can u link me ur topgear sim? Im curious because i only sim 90k without stars🤔
red bloom
oo yea, sockets are a big thing i need to work on
fleet anchor
It's very dramatic once you tip over to all sockets + like 3+ Expedient IIIs, Exsang+Deeper+CLF or whatever.
I basically went from like
87k to 94k overnight
fleet anchor
With a couple gear changes
main blaze
Accidently hit +
fleet anchor
Sockets are definitely worth a lot James at this point
feral creek
Well there are a gushing @main blaze
fleet anchor
Gushing hotfix is in Raidbots nightly already
drifting cosmos
Just out of curiousity tho, hows our st dmg compare to other specs
fleet anchor
I added it a couple days ago
feral creek
Thanks kojiyama❤️
red bloom
im at 92k atm i think, not many sockets so looking forward to pushing my momento grind a bit, the vendor and all has gotten me playing a lot more outside of raid again
feral creek
Im hoping for expedient 2 for tomorrow:3
fleet anchor
I might pick up one as a filler
Since I was only able to buy 3 this week
But yeah James, sockets are probably worth about 500 DPS or something atm
pallid peak
What do you reckon will be the next corruption we want to buy after we reach the tipping point in expedients?
feral creek
What do u guys think about galecallers boon? Is it worth to take it over the versa use thingy?
fleet anchor
I think it can be good depending on what ilevels you have
feral creek
On 465 its not good enought?
fleet anchor
@pallid peak you basically just stack Expedient until you can't any more, then you add Racing Pulse/Void Ritual to fill up your budget in a month or whatever when that isn't enough to max out.
red bloom
heres the socket lacking vop proc abomination :)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mMpprKEnv4aRHgFTaKdZyY
main blaze
Its kind of amazing how hard it was for us to get enough expedients with how the system worked before
pallid peak
Ok thank you kojiyama! I did manage to buy 5 this week and was thinking about saving for the next round. I’m glad we don’t have to save up for the expensive corruptions like IS3 and TD3
fleet anchor
I mean I had 1x Expedient III prior to the vendor coming out
It was very frustrating
red bloom
0, the rewards of playing the game
fleet anchor
It was possible to get 3x this week.. 4 if you no-lifed it
raven mica
I got 3.
fleet anchor
From 0
raven mica
some people had fucking 5.
obsidian jolt
i managed to get 2 then i got one from my vision
fleet anchor
But I had 1 before the patch so I have 4 in total
If you are an alt you can have like 9 or something 😄
red bloom
i got so close to buying my third but pints got delivered to my door so got distracted on the last 2k
grizzled jay
0 and the few I have is up for debate. Do I min max Outlaw for M+ or Sin
fleet anchor
But GCB and Plumage are both pretty close
And at least for me they aren't that far ahead of Coral, but they are ahead
0.4% or something
red bloom
.4% more blast is 100% worth
grizzled jay
It's been fun this week to go back to Sin to farm echoes and just murder +15-17 bosses
fleet anchor
Technically speaking GCB is probably easier to get since it's a smaller loot table
6 items vs. 8
I haven't seen either this season though so lol
feral creek
Does anybody have some numbers about the extra tick from haste snapshot with exsang?
fleet anchor
How do you mean exactly?
feral creek
Exsang snap shots the haste i read a few days ago so with more haste there are more ticks of our bleeds but when the duration is cutted by half how much more ticks will be there with galecallers as example
regal sleet
would you say assass is stronger than outlaw still @fleet anchor
pallid peak
Since most of us are spending our echoes on expedients do u guys just use that set for m+? Or do u plan to pick up severes and masterfuls for that?
fleet anchor
So how it works Kitty
Is that normally our tick rate on DoTs updates dynamically based on Haste changes. Each tick is rescheduled differently
Exsang "locks in" the tick rate for the entire remaining duration of the Exsanguinated bleed
Which can have pros and cons
e.g. if you use Galecallers after using Exsang it does nothing
Ideally you use Galecallers for a while, take advantage of the haste, refresh new DoTs, then Exsang before Galecallers wears off
Which essentially gets you extra Galecallers buff duration in practice
feral creek
So its more consistantbdmg to wait every exsang for gale be rdy
red bloom
im running some crit and TD I have for M+ but I predominantly play outlaw in keys so slappy boys + 30% TD
feral creek
But with versa use ull get higher burst right?
fleet anchor
You don't really want to delay your Exsangs right now
You just don't use Galecallers until it's ready to sync up with one
feral creek
Okay thank u @fleet anchor u helped me a lot❤️
fleet anchor
The rule of thumb the APL uses is to try to use GCB about 6 seconds before Exsang comes off cooldown
fathom swift
Isnt always an increase to delay gcb for exsang tho
fleet anchor
You also always use GCB when Vendetta is up, as long as your bleeds aren't currently Exsanguinated
There may be some fight length edge cases for delaying but generally I'd stick with trying to sync it until you are really optimizing/parsing strat oriented
spare flame
You can pop bote after exsang and still gain its benefit though right?
pallid peak
So stuff like plumage trinket and bote don’t get locked in by exsang?
fleet anchor
Correct
Ironically, part of the reason Plumage is pretty strong here is that a lot of the gearsets drop a lot of Vers
Which makes Vers more powerful in terms of the rating curve
So the on-use effect becomes stronger 😛
urban minnow
Which spec overall in the game in all the content is worth putting all your time into?
fleet anchor
I had a funny thing happen today with my gear where every single stat weight became essentially identical
red bloom
the one you enjoy the most bud
urban minnow
Cause gearing up for this class is a pita
fleet anchor
Which is primarily because my Vers is so low lol
Since Vers is the "worst" stat
Which then makes Plumage become pretty good when the buff is for 20s
feral creek
I feel u my gear also has really low versa and too much mastery
red bloom
whats too much mastery though?
feral creek
Like my half gear has big haste/ mastery i dont know the exact value atm but its like 38-42%
red bloom
ah same here, sims even telling me to go with mastery food
fresh abyss
@urban minnow are there classes that aren't?
i am about to ding 120 on my alliance rogue
i want to do sin rogue pvp but i feel like i need to have entirely diff gear for that? expedient 3 vs versatile/gushing
red bloom
i got my horde rogue to 120 the other night, really enjoy playing that even with the lack in gear, if you're looking for a easy class to gear up, the answer is just the one you enjoy playing the most, otherwise its a complete chore
toxic remnant
anyone know if NP stacks?
rancid bobcat
damage stacks, energy regen doesn't
toxic remnant
got it thanks
rancid obsidian
I'm in a strange Situation, i play with Perfect Vision Major and everybody keeps telling me that i shouldn't use it becaus its not as good as Blood of the Enemy but perfect Vision simulated way bether for me.
quasi pewter
vision of perfection major is only viable in pure single target situations
and also very rng
echo talon
does the assasination has a haste/crit cap?
echo talon
how many 12% haste corrupcion should i stack then?
rancid obsidian
Simulate it i would say.
arctic walrus
you will want all slots filled with with it
echo talon
i cant, because im thinking about buying these corruptions
jaunty arrow
U can sim what u should buy
echo talon
ohh
rancid obsidian
You can, they changed the Raidbot tool.
You can simulate corruptions you don't have.
keen dome
Hello all, could someone explain to me the relationship between Haste and bleeds? Why is this stat becoming so incredibly important now that we're using Exsang and 1+ SS ? Does it increase bleeds nbr of ticks ? Or is it just the energy regen increase and the unlocking of Deeper Stratagem ?
rancid bobcat
Bleeds tick faster/more ticks per duration
rancid obsidian
Haste makes Dot's tick faster (=More Ticks(=More Energy)) and ingreases Energy Regen.
rancid bobcat
It worked like this since the start of the expansion but we didn't have enough haste to make it good until corruptions
keen dome
ok simple enough, thanks ! Add to it a sprinkle of CLF and IS... and I understand why it sims so high
heavy forum
So what does the vendor sell now?
arctic walrus
tuesday/wednesday, friday/saturday
torpid zealot
What do you think is better ? Take all my corruption by exp. 1-3 or take 1 or 2 of haste Procc?
Just what you think without Simming
arctic walrus
all expedients
shrewd night
jovial spear
How much Echoes did Expedient 3 cost? 5k?
torpid zealot
Yep
arctic walrus
sim what you have, aim for expedients
broken moth
and fo r the vendor ?
arctic walrus
"aim for expedients"
broken moth
^^ ok sory my english it's bad
the must is ?Gushing Wounds Echoing Void Infinite Stars
arctic walrus
no dont bother buying those
arctic cloud
Gale's boon with a socket, FeelsGood
heavy forum
Time to start playing my rogue again! But oof i gotta gear it up and buy essences lways a mehh hahha
Got 460 so not to bad, but i dont have daggers. Rip
gentle dirge
Does it make any sense to buy Expidient 2? Or just not worth it?
drifting cosmos
To fill the budget, maybe? But generally just go for 3s
pseudo hamlet
Raidbot tells me to purify my gloves(with IS 2), use expedient 3 on them and put IS 2 on my dagger. 
gentle dirge
I have 4 Expidient 3s equipped currently and 1 more in the BAG but sims tell me to go for Exp 2 instead
quasi pewter
well if 3 doesnt fit in ur corruption budget then 2 is better obviously
uncut walrus
I wanna play outlaw and stack severe / strikethrough, is this viable on a crit build for sin?
heavy forum
You should Ask that in the outlaw channel
uncut walrus
I know that this is good for Outlaw, i dont know if it is for Sin
thats what i mean
distant lava
uncut walrus
i only need 1 severe / 1 strikethrough then ill farm expedient
heavy forum
Can anyone tell me the must have essences for assa rogue? What should i buy first
Iris, lucid blood iguess always good ones
fallen sapphire
Guys IS build or Twisted?
I see rogues topping logs with either. It's very confusing. Especially now with buyable corruptions.
arctic walrus
because buyable corruption was released a week ago
you can run the IS build on stuff like wrath and maut, basically everywhere else go with tendie
fallen sapphire
With my current gear it actually recommends getting more IS and leaving one 1 expedient. With the Twisted build it just says get more twisted.
Hmm I guess that would make sense
arctic walrus
the corruption recommendation isn't really the best right now
you will basically always want to buy expedients though, any other corruption is not worth bying
frigid kestrel
@arctic walrus Doesnt that depend on content? I thought Severe is the way to go in M+ and Expedient stacking was for Raiding
fallen sapphire
Yeah sorry was just talking in raid context
frigid kestrel
In that case, yea Expedient is the way to go
fallen sapphire
Urrgh I feel silly now for purfying TA on my wep
I tested it once on Ra-den and it felt like it was proccing more because it was on the dagger too.. Am I just being silly or is there any truth in that?
heavy forum
raider io site down or ?
tropic ocean
it has some issues atm yeah
young portal
is Division/Overlocking ring set typically bad for Nzoth? Would Overclocking/Recursion be better?
zinc furnace
gentlemen, FOR M+ is severe worth stacking if no EB traits (x3 SS though)? Is stacking both expedient and severe in this case sound like the way to go? PS. Yes, I checked pins
tropic ocean
@young portal not really
U only need to attack once from behind every 15s
U can use psychophages/harvesters/tents as well
Behind also doesnt mean u need to be exactly behind the boss but more of a 180 angle behind boss
sturdy wraith
Hey guys, is there a list of daggers that drop from mythic dungeons? I cant find any 😦
tropic ocean
@zinc furnace as much severe to always proc 5eb then probably strikethroughs
@sturdy wraith ingame u can check all loot in dungeon journal
sturdy wraith
I legit couldnt find a dungeon that had one lol
zinc furnace
seems i should target SS+EB 480 pieces then
tropic ocean
atal has, underrot has, tol dagor has, kings resttoo i think
raven mica
So, if that is true, then in theory, outlaw gear should work perfectly for sin in M+, or is the mastery loss like a big hit.
floral shoal
@sturdy wraith Switch to assa in dungeon journal.
young portal
@tropic ocean Understood, just about to start Nzoth thats all. I've farmed and got Overclocking, was wondering if it was still worth farming for Division as I have Recursion
thank you
tropic ocean
np 🙂
sturdy wraith
thanks guys found them
raven mica
Division is always better than recursion
Where’s the gear compare I sent in here
There.
scarlet sequoia
dk sims 
young portal
@raven mica I see, cheers
scarlet sequoia
yeah it does
remote socket
Hey guys, quick question, is Expedient best to stack as sin rogue? Mostly playing m+s, are there any other corruption i should get aswell? Going with 3x EB 2x SS
remote socket
Great thanks a lot! 🙂
tribal obsidian
How do multiple EB traits work?
scarlet sequoia
more dam
patent topaz
the answer to pretty much any question about stacking traits/corruptions is just "more dam"
polar drift
do i want to use 6cp rupture before exsang? or is 5cp fine
valid spoke
Do you want to put tendies on a 485 piece or should you still just go expedients
bleak spoke
@polar drift 5 is ok
untold mortar
prolly u should aim for 6 cps i guess
vast forum
Sim goes 6
@valid spoke if anything, we'd put gw on 485 but preliminary sims point to 9x expedient simming best
thin gate
guys what is the best AOE build for like big pulls M+ and fight like Hivemind ?
Like what stat weights prio, azerite traits, trinkets and corruptions (anything except Twilight here please)
valid spoke
@vast forum was thinking that we'd have to put something else than expedient on our gear anyways, since all expedients wont be enough for Heart of Darkness once we get max cloak resistance
scarlet sequoia
it will be
royal lantern
i now want too see how much leech % we can reach with max resistance
valid spoke
Yeah, like arms is gonna want some racing pulse/void ritual
scarlet sequoia
no
scarlet sequoia
9 t3 expedients with max resist is 45 corruption
faint harness
yes
thin gate
maybe 8
scarlet sequoia
no
thin gate
in 4 weeks
scenic wyvern
!WA
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
thin gate
were talking about a legit build for mm progress
so like 59
max corruption
so 7 is fine rn
faint harness
call it mythic then
thin gate
sorry bruh
but now guys
can someone tell me
whats best to stack
for cleave fights
big pulls and hivemind
is masterfull legit
with master poisoner?
faint harness
severe
thin gate
with severe
arctic cloud
10k gold says the next corruption to buy is crit im on draenor.
thin gate
3x echoing blade + the mastery proc?
which gives about 1.5k mastery when procing
is that a thing
agile vector
@faint harness actually I am mainly a PvP player, start playing PvE with my rouge now, and I am having some energy difficulty.
faint harness
do you have energy difficulty on aoe
agile vector
No, single target
faint harness
yea different thing
nothing wrong with low energy gen on ST
if you play the haste build it wont be a problem
but sin rogue on ST is usually a slow spec with wait time
agile vector
Hm... That's it then, if just how the spec is, not me making some error :p
slow tulip
d you think severe stacks will be better in m+ than twilight
agile vector
Hm... About the stats, I see everyone saying Crit+Versa for PvE but my sims tell me otherwise, Crit+Mastery
thin gate
garrote rupture garrote vendetta + versa trinket + boe into max cp rupture vanish garrote exsang
is that the right opener?
on ST
thin gate
so no garrote refresh
slow tulip
yep
thin gate
when do i use my exsang here
garrote rupture garrote vendetta boe exsang?
but then my rupture has just 3 cp on exsang
or is iit garrote rupture garrote double dose vendetta boe exsang
slow tulip
garr rup garr vend muti rup bote exsang
thin gate
fine got it
ty
because i did
garrote muti rup vendetta boe exssang
be4
wasting a bonus optime on empowered garrote
and the safe 3 cp
and when i vanish do i garrote rupture garrote again
garrote rupture garrote / garrote envenom garrote
slow tulip
after that you refresh your emp garrote after it ticks out
thin gate
but in the subterfuge window
i reset it twice?
or is it wasted energy
i mean like last second another garrote
for more empowered uptime
thin gate
right
slow tulip
its only emp up to 3 sec after stealth
scarlet sequoia
exsang before bote please
thin gate
so the sped up ticks crit higher and more often
scarlet sequoia
wys now
thin gate
u said exsang into bote
because u want the sped up bleeding
to have more crit
for a better dps window
thin gate
yh
scarlet sequoia
dont wanna waste a global on exsang in the bote window
scarlet sequoia
no thats not what u say
scarlet sequoia
ye hes wrong
thin gate
ecause u want the sped up bleeding
to have more crit
for a better dps window
thats what i said then
mellow vector
could anyone point me in the right direction of sin rogue for the poison build setup?
need help with the rotations a little
scarlet sequoia
well u would have that even if u pressed bote before exsang
thin gate
so its just about the global
scarlet sequoia
yes
thin gate
kk
scarlet sequoia
because using exsang after blood is completely useless
just a waste of a global in the blood window
thin gate
i see
makes sense yh
its 10 seconds crit chance enhance to me
and 5 seconds more crit damage
to the target
for bote
strange python
out dps, probably not but will be much more consistent?
lean marten
thought clf with xang u clf pre-pull
scarlet sequoia
u can do that too sure
bugs out now and then and does nothing first few seconds of the fight
slow tulip
true
fallen sapphire
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4dPpgQvGdhUk49exNTzLzL
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2BxU4izCGNnFD8rzZ6TgUY
Trying to get away from this IS build and try out TA. Should I roll with r1 IS on boots or the Strikethrough III on bracers to boost TA damage? 🤔
frozen jasper
Something slightly confusing to me.
My guild currently progressing on Ra'den and for now at least my sim is telling me to throw everything I have into crit but it just doesn't make any sense to me considering all guides I am looking at seem to point towards dumping everything into haste with expedient, is there actually a specified haste cap for ST or in the case of Ra'den add cleave.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jAMPcANFWmC6z38ejUnQ1M
vernal flume
Guides don't know your personal stat weights, they are generalized. There are no caps just points where stat weights change based on your current stats equipped.
shy dust
Don’t use stat weights
vernal flume
Like just because you ran that stat weight sim and it says crit is highest right now, it doesn't mean you should turn around and change all of your gear to crit.
fallen sapphire
We just killed Ra'den and to be honest you're better off aiming mostly single target. Use Subterfuge and personally I wouldn't bother with shrouded suffocation, the adds shouldn't be up for that long really
shy dust
SS can be a good ST trait
vernal flume
SS is fine, but yea your job will mostly be ST on raden most likely
tropic ocean
@slow tulip potentially in high trash dungeons and fortified or teeming weeks
due to target cap
but with good procs no
but should be far more consistent and also more valuable on bosses
frozen jasper
thanks very much for the help that clears up most of what I was confused about 🙂
slow tulip
@tropic ocean well since i already have the expedients and TDs i will deffinitely buy the severe stack just to try it, but i think TD will sstill do more dps i donno, we shall see soon 😄
tropic ocean
i really dislike td
fallen sapphire
Anyone have a clue about my 2 earlier gearsets above ^^ ? 600 dps difference, my feeling is to roll with the bracers instead of IS but hmm..
tropic ocean
its +-20% of my dmg but the procs are just so i rng
I will just play severe+strikethrough for consistency
in my mind it will also better fulfill my role in a key
having good aoe output, taking care of hard mobs with exsang vendetta
and not relying on 500k dps 1 pack 200k dps next pack due to td rng
shy dust
Why would you ever willingly go IS
frozen jasper
I personally prefer TA far more than IS I always have better results when my guild killed Drest on progress I ran rank 8 TA and managed at 95 log on our kill it just seems to be far more consistent that what the sims say
shy dust
It’s a terrible corruption realistically
tropic ocean
ta is just as terrible as is
shy dust
No it’s not lol
shy dust
TA doesn’t suffer from shorter kill times
tropic ocean
yeah so?
shy dust
Or rng hitting other targets like IS
shy dust
“Just as terrible as IS”
tropic ocean
yeah
frozen jasper
I have never ever had issues running TA at all to be honest it's always done very well for me on ST and cleave fights.
tropic ocean
just as terrible
tropic ocean
why would u play it when u can just play reliable dps corruptions
shy dust
Because the question was between using an IS or a TA
frozen jasper
TA is reliable imo although sure there is an element of RNG involved but that is the case for all corruption that aren't just solid stat increases I would much prefer to run TA as I said it's never failed me.
tropic ocean
XD
vernal flume
TA will have more value than IS on most fights in ny'a if those are the only 2 choices
deft obsidian
Give me your RNG so my man, i've had nothing but awful experience
Meanwhile our combat rogue absolutely has sick RNG and dumps a heap of procs
fallen sapphire
It's a strange one isn't it guys. I see logs were TA is top. Other logs IS is top. Before we killed Ra'den, I tried a TA build, Mind Flay hit for 4m damage and we hadn't even got the boss to 40%. The next pull it didn't proc AT ALL, for the entire attempt! so I'm really torn. Also it's confusing as hell trying to figure out the best options for dps by not going with what Raidbots recommends lol
shy dust
Almost everyone would tell you not to run IS.
vernal flume
Logs with TA are just from super lucky pulls, its not a good representation of how good TA is overall
shy dust
TA is an okay corruption but better than IS
At the end of the day you should chase expedient
IS is sim bait
fallen sapphire
The thing is, IS always procs on a pull. Always. I've never seen a wipe where it didn't do SOMETHING. But it seems like when TA finally does decide to proc, it can do could damage. But if you look at logs, IS hits way way harder than TA does. Less often in a fight, but for like 5x the damage lol
fallen sapphire
Sorry I meant during an attempt not pull
shy dust
^
royal lantern
take stat % and be happy
shy dust
IS is very overrated
jovial spear
Its cool when you get lucky with proccs though, but hard to pull consistant DPS
with it
vernal flume
Context matters, on a fight like shad where its pure patchwerk, IS is going to perform how it is suggested in the sim, but for almost all the other fights in the raid there are things that can take value away from IS.
royal lantern
why would you take a small chance for a pull where you maybe do 80%more dmg instead of always doing 70% more dmg?
shy dust
With shorter kill times
slow tulip
TA does the dps and will almost always sim better than all other corruptions especially on a 485 carapace dagger
jovial spear
You can also one-shot yourself on Maut tho
slow tulip
but the dps is not reliable cuz it vary from target to target like ausr said
frozen jasper
I ran IS literally once and never touched it again, it does vary from fight to fight but IS just doesn't have the same consistence as stat stick corruption or TA
slow tulip
i have TA on 485 cara dagger and the sim literally says i cant replace it ever...
vernal flume
I think the long story short here is relying on either IS or TA is not the way to go, unless you are trying to get a lucky pull to get a top parse. Get the stat % and be useful every pull.
slow tulip
but the dps is not consistant
loud brook
Had IS rank 2 proc 10 times on my maut opener
Did 160k burst
Never happened again
cobalt pelican
your dps in this game is never consistent
frozen jasper
was gonna say burst is all well and good but if you're doing like 50k at the end of the fight it doesn't matter what burst you're doing xD
frozen jasper
yikes
slow tulip
oof
loud brook
Big sad
fallen sapphire
hehe. ok guys TA is the way forward! I've been reluctant because I got r3 IS on mythic Wrathion legs when the raid first opened and haven't had another decent corruption until only a few weeks ago lol
shy dust
IS is very bad for raid I would not use it whatsoever
fallen sapphire
It's already gone!
loud brook
Honestly, with my luck on my procs, if we went to a shatter, I'd gib myself with stars
On that pull
fallen sapphire
It;s also a shame that they nerfed gushing wounds. I have some nice 470 boots with a socket with that on
urrrgh.
limber lion
What's the website where you can add corruptions to your simc paste?
vernal flume
I mean, those boots are probably still fine if you have the corruption budget
loud brook
Raidbots?
limber lion
No
slow tulip
i do it on raidbot
slow tulip
thx mate, will check this
pseudo hamlet
I have IS rank 2 and IS rank 3. When I was doing Maut IS rank 2 once did overall more damage than IS 2+3 at once. 
On the other hand, I saw some DHs doing >40% of their damage with IS and having really high ranks. But that's DH I guess... Will still gather haste%, the rotation feels much better with it(smoother cause better energy regeneration).
ocean drum
guys, with gcb and vendetta on a 2 min cd, do i delay exs for 15 seconds to pair it with gcb, every 2nd with vendetta? or do i ignore totally and just use it, no matter what?
willow pulsar
As far as i remember, you never delay exang, and you always want exang in vendetta so you delay your cd for next exang.
You can do a quick sim for 3 min 1 boss patchwerk in raidbots and see how it behaves at second vendetta.
ocean drum
true, ty. but i wanted to know what hivemind says instead of the sim 😄 also galecallers sucks with 1 min cd :/
willow pulsar
Plumage is great for exang build, it's the same cd like vendetta and vanish
Sims very well
fathom swift
galecallers is also good but you might need to check different apl usage for it cause it might sim higher for you
tranquil marsh
what do you think about goushing nerf?
uncut walrus
how do i use Blood in ST ?
storm perch
why noone read pins?
opal minnow
sweet rampart
Is Expedient > TA for the most part?
storm perch
what do you think about goushing nerf?
@tranquil marsh seems it won't be that bad. Something like IS nerf - still will be great on high lvl items
tranquil marsh
thanks for answering
daring olive
racing pulse 3 is kinda good imo
worldly sandal
kill me
kind steppe
I'm on EU, where can I have the full corrupt list ?
last crown
afk till expeds back
mighty elm
rancid bobcat
exp 3 from chest
poogers
free expedient
then again its on a dagger so if i get cara dagger today 
mint oar
is this trash?
woven prairie
1 RP III worth it with eped and exsang build?
gray crest
how good is the bleed build?
lean marten
its gud
mint oar
Which of the 2 gloevs should i go for?
or just cleanse the top ones and lose the 12% crit
storm perch
sim yself
hollow escarp
cobalt pelican
seems like a couple severe 2s are upgrades for me cause i can't reach more than 50 corruption of expedient
unfortunate
woven prairie
why can't u reach more than 50?
cobalt pelican
i have 6x rank 3 and 1x rank 1
that means i either play 50corr or 60
buying 2x severe 2s to get myself to 58 corr is like a ~1.1k gain
wait it's even
3 not 2
gloomy slate
What helm and chest are good for bleed build other than raden or carapace
wary ice
severe 3 is for sale?
drifting light
2
celest ruin
how much is severe 2
drifting light
4125
slow tulip
actually severe and strike outdps-ed TD in bots
which is promising
dont like that much rng wit TD s :/
gloomy slate
Just anything with SS and OP for helm and chest I guess?
warm parcel
Any helm that sims well
wary ice
Im not a fan of having to wait a fucking month for Severe 3 >.>
slow tulip
maybe its up tomorrow who knows 😄
sturdy mesa
slow tulip
fuck :/
so i guess severe 3 and strikes will be up in 1-2 weeks
😄
atleast ppl will have a lot of echos to buy them at once
tropic ocean
yeah I actually see it kinda positive
less grindy
can just chill do some stuff and passively will have the echoes once its up
light pebble
any idea why my expedient set sims 17k less than my other set I had before? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2PUAFRitpDhLofXzaonsCa
warm parcel
cause its 0 vs 51 corruption?
brazen garden
essences
warm parcel
its literally right there
fringe socket
is it ideal to get more then one infinite stars?
strange python
Damage stacks. But it is never "ideal" to go for IS
Despite shad and xanesh on progress maybe
Killtimes get to short now for it to be worth If you Guys are geared and it's Farm
And generally other corruptions are 100% more versatile
willow pulsar
Yeah, i made some testing sims for my m+ builds. Severe/strikethroughts outdpsed tds for low haste profile. It's also great for st, even playing 3ss and eb build with heavy crit/vers i gained around 11k dps on 3 min fight (unbuffed w/o bl) comparing to my actuall build.
fringe socket
okay true thanks, i just goto blood mallet and it says IE is the highest so i thought it would be the best option
strange python
IS is big damage for 5 Minute Patchwerk sims. Which happens nowhere in the Game anymore pretty much, most Shadhar kills are way quicker.
It starts dealing big damage once it gets to higher stacks. Stacks proc randomly on any target in range. So it's way worse than sims show on Fights with adds, and on short Fights because you won't reach high stacks.
Generally you can use it on Wrathion, Maut (If u don't kill yourself to it), Shadhar, Xanesh and Ra'den and have it contribute a decent amount of DPS.
But it will be nowhere near what sims show 90% of the time, because those Bosses fall over so quickly.
scenic ruin
question. For PvE what would be my stat prio? Im guessing haste=crit>vers?
light pebble
do u guys do patchwork or which is best for simming in nya?
tropic ocean
@scenic ruin raidbots.com
@light pebble generally it gives a good idea, not as accurate as simming your actual killtimes, or multitarget/cleave depending on fight
little root
did gushing wound nerf go live today? not seeing a difference on sims
paper kelp
truly can't wait for corruptions to be gone
warm parcel
has had for good few days
indigo elk
no idea but i was wearing the exact same gear but rb told me to remove GW gear
little root
ah apologies, been traveling past couple days so wasnt aware
dull osprey
for an AoE build in M+, 3 SS is still the go to with only 1 EB?
strange python
I mean for absolute giga AoE 3 EB is what you want
But how big is the AoE gonna be in your Dungeon?
KR? Thats 0 EB time
dull osprey
I'm looking for a build that is in the middle
strange python
Ye that's self explanatory. Thought he asked about the EB
dull osprey
I did
tropic ocean
You increase/reduce eb depending on your needs
dull osprey
sounds like if I could have my way I would want 3 SS and like 2 EB
strange python
EB Count depends on dugeon and affixes and what your grp needs.
Tyr KR? 0 EB
Teeming Fort FH? 3 EB
strange python
No EB in ToS, how are you gonna pad on conscripts ???!?!
slow tulip
i cant loose pad dps ://
tropic ocean
well i dont
strange python
It was a joke
tropic ocean
If you play properly theres not much conscript pad anyway
plush remnant
I'm seeing a lot of people with similar builds hitting 100k and was wondering what I could work on to get my damage up. If someone could look at my gear and give some advice that'd be much appreciated :)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/r1cG3mrA8GXTTyBZRTgkCd
little root
id change azerite as first priority yea?
tropic ocean
ppl sim 100k cuz they have better helm, 475 trinket, 485 mainhand and generally more expedients
also sockets
plush remnant
I have 3 expedients saved up rn. I think the only azerite that's better is the mythic boss azerite, right?
plush remnant
Which hlem should I got for?
upper spear
Chest is vex, helm is Loa from resiidium, shoulders are Gorak Tul from resiidium?
tropic ocean
one with ss + x
warm parcel
theres nothing wrong with dd either
cobalt pelican
extravagant, goraks ilgy (and nzoth) shoulders are all functionalx
plush remnant
I'll have to droptimizer heroic raid. Those are the ones I currently have access to atm
tropic ocean
well will be hard to go to 100k without access to mythic items
plush remnant
Yeah wasn't sure if I had hit a point where heroic and m+ gear wouldn't be much anymore
rigid eagle
so, racing pulse is in store, does that matter to us lol
plush remnant
Would you gem haste with expedient stacking?
tropic ocean
I would gem what sims best
warm parcel
you gem what sims
plush remnant
Gotcha
upper spear
@rigid eagle I was thinking same thing
tropic ocean
But to some extend it will be haste with many expedients
And after it falls off again
light pebble
Is a piece of expedient 3 but which crit/mastery worth using?
tropic ocean
well
Generally you want to use all your highest items and then balance your stat weights
(Obv sim low ilvl socket vs high ilvl non socket) but since u can just socket everything now
e.g. on boots u will use crit/mastery cuz they can be 485
And u can balance out the stats on other pieces
grave marsh
Are tendies sub par for Assassination atm?
slow tulip
if its on a 485 item they are ok
grave marsh
I see. I have them on a 455 gloves but have a 470 with void ritual and the 470’s sim worse
last crown
thoughts on reaping flames as major for 5mask visions? not worth?
grave marsh
Trying to get my sims up. Sitting at 73k atm. At 471 ilvl
tropic ocean
Farm echoes
And just buy all expedients next time r3 is up
And ur sim will be fixed
grave marsh
So I want the haste expedient?
orchid solstice
is there a negative to stacking 2 of the same wep enchants
tropic ocean
Y
grave marsh
Ty
paper kelp
is exp stacking better than twisted appendage stacking ?
paper kelp
but you would need SS azerite right ?
tropic ocean
Win-win-win
nope
Its strong on dd build too afaik
U can use more spells that nornally would result in dead gcds so
paper kelp
i guess i just need 6 more exp then
but i really like my tentacle putting me up there close to the mages
fresh copper
mmmm, while simming rings, the mechagon combo sims lower then the ones i have..
bit surprised there
am i doing it wrong?
honest iris
they are good when you have expedient
fresh copper
mmm
they dont get add up in the compare
added*
thats what i think
i have 4 expedient
so
crimson palm
are u simming the 2nd ring with gem & enchant
fresh copper
how?
tropic ocean
idk when I clicked sim again on ur sim
fresh copper
i'm doing soemthign wrong prolly
tropic ocean
it showed both rings in slot 1
insteadhttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/22CVzPMZzXyCKTNGJHox9N
so u dont have the buff from the ring set
thats when it actually uses the ring set
fresh copper
aaahh
tropic ocean
so it just simmed both rings used
tropic ocean
y
fresh copper
thanks alot! 😄
fluid bough
Does anyone here main assassination rather than outlaw in m+? How do you deal with aoe situations? I’m finding outlaw very annoying to play.
glacial jasper
save for next expediant or get the haste proc?
tropic ocean
save
unless u desperately need something for progress now and want/can grind the echoes back to buy all expedients in 3 weeks
hoary apex
@fluid bough I'm a 3.5k io sin player. Sin actually does more damage in a lot of M+ situations than outlaw, but you lose the utility of a rotational stun, gouge, and vanish as a non-dps cd. None of these really matter until 23-24+ keys imo. I can do 22s just fine. The biggest con of sin over outlaw in M+ is that we require much more specific gearsets. Outlaw can basically put w/e they want on once they have good stats and will do damage every week. Not the case for sin because our AoE and ST are somewhat (though not completely) exclusive. We require certain azerites (Shrouded Suffocation, Echoing Blades) and stats (>40% base crit at least, rather have >45% on fort weeks) to do aoe damage. Do you have specific questions? Rotation on aoe is Garrote>Garrote>Garrote>CT(if talented, rupture if not)>Fan>Rupture(skip this if no CT)>Blood of the Enemy>Fan>Fan>Fan>finisher. Your base rotation is meant to keep elaborate planning up at all times (so 3 fans and then a finisher always). You want to always keep up at least 4 bleeds otherwise you will energy starve
you can vanish/shadowmeld garrote as well when your first empowered garrotes are about to fall off or at the beginning of a big pack for 6 empowered garrote giga damage with BotE.
cinder horizon
say i got a uncorrupted item this week, could i put a trash corruption on it now, clencse it later and apply a better one to?
hoary apex
yes
proven moth
I need to always chase to get more and more haste? or always 
?
strange python
@hoary apex do you find your boss dmg goes down when going with the AoE build?
I tried running it last night and it just seemed like I was slapping the boss with a wet noodle after changing my azerite traits
tepid tundra
@hoary apex fan over envenom on packs when you are 4+ CP?
strange python
The finisher is just to refresh elaborate planning
I believe FoK does more dmg once everything is dotted up
hoary apex
your damage does go down, but that's why you run different stats on tyrannical weeks
tepid tundra
Hmm missing on poison bomb procs potentially?
There’s probably a breakpoint somewhere with number of mobs
hoary apex
@strange python on tyrannical weeks you want to run 40-45% crit (still because we scale so hard with crit) but you want to run >40% mastery, and some haste rather than a ton of verse
I also usually drop from 3EB 3SS to 1-2EB 3 SS, and fill out with HoD, BBI, etc.
if you really want you can drop CnS as a minor for VoP and run 1 NP
that maximized boss damage
I run that in WS/KR sometimes regardless
also for corruptions favor mindflays on Tyrranical weeks and TD on fort weeks
loud silo
lets say i hvae 2 peices of r3 expedient, should i buy racing pulse?
paper kelp
i'd say no
hoary apex
@tepid tundra I envenom slam on 3 or less targets (finishing envenom whenever I have 4+ CPs), 3 fan and finisher on 4+ targets
paper kelp
cause its proc based
brave verge
I need help with a Vendetta and BotE macro pls
hoary apex
you don't want to macro Vendetta and BotE. There are situations where you don't want to do both
brave verge
And a castseq
hoary apex
also gcds
paper kelp
@tropic ocean imagine if tentacles were like the searing breath corruption
like every 30 stacks you get one
rancid bobcat
i wish i didnt gamble my 12k resid though 
paper kelp
instead of this shit ass rng
thats makes it so you get 6 of them in one trash pack and 0 on bosses
paper kelp
and then there me proccing 0 tentacule in a 8 min fight while wearing 4 rank2 of it
strange python
hey guys, i have jsut returned to sin rogue and I was wondering what is the best build to go for and how to use bote
tropic ocean
@paper kelp i feel you 😛
paper kelp
even worse i was playing IS when 8.3 first released got 0 proc in 1 fight one of the dh in my guild gets an avg of 25 proc in 3 min fights
truly an amazing system
fluid bough
How invested do I need to be in perfect stat priority and such in order to get to +15?
scarlet sequoia
very
paper kelp
in assa quite some
scarlet sequoia
only elite gamers get to do 15
rancid bobcat
15s are more about your play than your gear
strange python
Yo raz, u running RP3 anywhere now? Or has it lost value from having access to mass exp3 on haste gear for you?
scarlet sequoia
im full expedient bro
rancid bobcat
wtf is rp
scarlet sequoia
racing pulse
strange python
Racing Pulse
rancid bobcat
o
strange python
Haste proc
paper kelp
@rancid bobcat i disagree, i can be my braindead ass with 300ping and outlaw does the job for me in 19s
rancid bobcat
that doesn't discount what i said?
paper kelp
what i said is that i can stand in shit like an ape cause i outgear it
and outlaw is so braindead it does the job
paper kelp
playing good isnt needed in 15s
rancid bobcat
im sure if u werent hitting your buttons 50% of the time it would matter
like by "play in 15s" i mean do you actually hit your buttons properly, etc
most people struggling at that level are not hitting buttons properly, and forget about actually doing the mechanics
paper kelp
ok yeah i see my bad on that one
tropic ocean
@fluid bough some decent gear, some exp thats what matters to get into 15s on pugs
not ur stats
onyx birch
Do i need that ring set to do max damage or can i use other combinations?
fluid bough
i appreciate all the help guys
I'm still getting used to playing rogue, it is much more fulfilling than dh although much harder
paper kelp
dont give us hope
novel arrow
Just tested it
dark crag
The nerf was a joke, next comes a bluepost that they won't nerf it because the nerf would hit specs that don't need further nerfs
They just wanted to troll and get people to override their gw with expedients
tropic ocean
hahahahaha
calm chasm
800 dps loss after nerf from a single 465 gushing... pretty painful
ocean ore
can someone tell me how much haste i need to run the SS plus exsanguinate build? should i enchant some of my itens with severe 2-3? (cant simc right now)
uncut walrus
Should i always delay my Blood for Vendetta Vanish CD ?
ocean ore
@uncut walrus yeap, always hold blood
junior ridge
galecallers or plumage?
paper kelp
galecallers with exp i think