worldly sandal
i wish it wasnt so much corruption though
#assassination
vapid ether
Hello guys, do you think i can switch my "Ashvane's Razor Coral" 415 to "Torment in a jar" 445 ? 😒 I can't decided myself !!
For raid obviously
strange python
U can use raidbots.com for simming purposes it will tell you which trinkets /gear choices are better
vapid ether
you trust it ?
strange python
Yes
vapid ether
it tell's me to keep it
strange python
Then keep it
deft obsidian
Aye its pretty insane to be fair.
vapid ether
but i wondering if he's true :/
strange python
Always trust maths
strange python
U dont need stat weights just use topgear it will tell you what to socket / enchant etc
tranquil marsh
limber lion
Try Deeper Stratagem and Exsanguinate talents @tranquil marsh
fleet whale
yeah if you're using three SS use exsang
scarlet sequoia
well ofc what did u expect
u have chosen gear with almost no mastery
mastery becomes better the more haste
rancid bobcat
idk what changed though cause previously the gems were being filled with crit
dont look at the top gear but the 2nd line with bote
rancid bobcat
planning
scarlet sequoia
what for
rancid bobcat
i have a number of 475s to pick and choose from
so might as well plan for which to pick
cobalt pelican
the second set on the 2nd link has mastery gems and is using the same essences, there's so many sets within margin it's basically w/e
faint harness
why are you not using carapacci chest
rancid bobcat
i dont have that yet or a cara dagger 
cobalt pelican
does anyone know any like
faint harness
but ur simming a bunch of stuff you dont have
cobalt pelican
solid logic for pots
my brain thought focused resolve when huge but
that appears to be small brain
shy dust
Whichever sims higher 
faint harness
so you got 475 plumage
cobalt pelican
might just use unbridled everywhere so i get extra bag slots
rancid bobcat
no but that doesnt change the sim much since vers prob isn't coming up as a gem
cobalt pelican
but i'm not sure this is the correct minmaxing strat
outer lotus
Its correct for minmaxing bag space
scarlet sequoia
@cobalt pelican just focused resolve on st bosses
drifting cloud
minmaxing bag space is race change to vulpera
scarlet sequoia
unbridled rest
cobalt pelican
unbridled sims better on this guys like
weird set though
i check some profiles sometimes and it's CONFUSING
rancid bobcat
cobalt pelican
you won't know what's 'right' without a lot more work than this because you'd need to realistically build profiles for all available combinations of gear
those which you don't even have
rancid bobcat
nah the gem slots basically cover most of the stat combos
cobalt pelican
but yeah the closest gem set on the one you said has crit gems has 3 crit gems out of all of them on the same essence set and a full mastery set is within margin
rancid bobcat
everything else important is locked in
rancid bobcat
i guess
drifting cloud
thats why youre supposed to play TA and highroll
cobalt pelican
truuuuuu
expedient fits perfectly into cloak res
this week and next
i mean ta
perfect time 2 clown
drifting cloud
on cara this week I looked at my details was like this number seems high for my potato standard
ah 17% TA
from r4
cobalt pelican
sometimes fortunate
idk how to even play my character on carapace anymore
we lust too early to not play vop
but
i don't want ot play vop
because muh epiq build
vital haven
carapace infuriates me
cobalt pelican
i don't think i did last week
but then if i use just as i go up
it's like 5:00 or sm shit
and t hen we lust a 6:30
give or take ab it
drifting cloud
I just use it right after 1st gate, then get another at the end, neither with lust but w/e
since the whole raid burns cds in p2 anyways
drifting cloud
so last phse is potato slow
drifting cloud
oh yeah ive never done that
vital haven
you barely get use of it anyways
vital haven
unless you call like 3 adds for yourself or something
cobalt pelican
+3rd bomb set ads
it was hot
but i played like trash
and now i play this shit and i
no timings work
the cast damage is a lot
there's like 20 mobs
i don't use the actual debuff at all i just plow the dude
drifting cloud
ok I could actually easily do it im just small brain
cobalt pelican
its ok
team player
just say you did it intentionally to build team morale for the rest of your raiders
:) go get em hunters!!
cobalt pelican
o you lust as soon as you gate or
drifting cloud
its after 2nd thing
cobalt pelican
i c
drifting cloud
I dunno I stopped caring about it a month ago, not gonna write a thesis why stuff can be done better
faint harness
speed rankings all that matter, why ppl pad
drifting cloud
if boss die
strange python
how do you use breath in rotation?
strange python
just got it to rank 3 and its simming higher than CLF
drifting cloud
and he had like IT9
cobalt pelican
fuck them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i died to beacon once
who even gets beacon as a rogue
i felt judged
drifting cloud
I didnt have macro on bars so I just hoped I dont get it
he had 71% wing uptime on raden
lime edge
how much better does it feel doing mythic+ with 3 echoing blades compared to none?
drifting cloud
I dont play healers but that sounds good
lime edge
1-10?
cobalt pelican
ineffable is clown
vop was already clown
now it's
2 clowns clowning each other off
and it depends on the dungeon
and how you're pulling
but like
a solid 3.2
wet ruin
imagine paladins not sniping you on ra-den when you get the debuff @drifting cloud
drifting cloud
yeah thats why I press the macro before debuffs go out
but I always remove it from bars for some vision gear sets and I forgot to put it back there
wet ruin
macro wont save you from holy shock 
wet ruin
we have 2 paladins 😄
drifting cloud
50:50/2
wet ruin
I just remeber getting the debuff, dying 2 sec later and hearing them laugh
wet ruin
nah its not causing a wipe
lime edge
holy honor
wet ruin
only anger in the one killed
glacial jasper
Made a sim like infectious was memeing about with vop and full blow IT it was not pretty
frigid briar
cobalt pelican
the sims are just bugged, invest now
near willow
grave pagoda
Weapon DPS
16.46
Versatility
8.43
Critical Strike
8.41
Mastery
7.24
Haste
6.02
while simming these stats. is it worth getting versta corruption 12%
grave pagoda
sry dint see i could add corruptions in simc. thx
strange python
Hello guys, I ask this morning but nobody awnser me, I need help with exanguinate.
Out of opener, how I have to use the skill? perma cd and use after refresh bleeds?
gilded otter
i have Echoiing void 2 on my weapon, is it worth keeping ?
Or cleansing it is better ?
cobalt pelican
just use it when your bleeds are a decent length
if you need some reference point that is more fixed just press it after a refreshed rupture
and ev is pretty bad, b ut sims are your friend
vast forum
@grave pagoda the fact that vers is your highest simming stat in stat weights might imply that you have too little of it
imagine if you have 100 vers and you use a 12% vers corruption
gz you just gained 12 vers
generally, to answer your question, vers corruptions are bottom-tier in pve
@gilded otter echoing void is pretty much 1 of the worst corruptions for assa
errant delta
so a question about worldvein being a sim trap any1 know why cus even if i put 0 worldvein users it still comes out top?
errant delta
whats next best thing then?
cobalt pelican
worldvein scales pretty well with neck level tbh, but the majority of people dropped it early when it was objectively bad and haven't bothered revisiting it cause it's usually not ahead of clf/blood at 0
low girder
errant delta
what dose the neck lvl have too do with it?
cobalt pelican
different essences get different levels of power per neck level
but for reference, what are you comparing 0allies worldvein to in your sims?
errant delta
wow di not know that yer i simed all the reasnable ess here with no worldvein allis https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wDBpNbSFBbSRENv5vrYRgw
what i usaly sim was fuking with bleed buildhttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4om9TpGmN9BQ6xkH5SQ829
hollow robin
Hey all, guild got M Cara last week and we are working on Nzoth Monday, had a few questions for anyone whose done the fight.
Mainly curious for spec/corruptions, and if theres anything I should know about CD usages
frozen karma
glacial jasper
@glacial jasper that sim only used vendetta ave of 4.7 times per iteration I would think it would be a great deal more than that
drifting cloud
stop hitting yourself
winged basin
Where can I find the best essences? the major and 3 minors
shy dust
Sim it
Generally lucid is always a used minor unless you have an extreme amount of expedient levels
Along with breath of the dying
drifting light
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
wary ice
is there a minimum amount of haste we should have for keys?
im full stacked crit/msat rn and bosses feel horrible :^(
lethal bobcat
hoe much haste is to much haste guys? i just made some math and saw that i can go up to 58% haste if i put 6 expidents rank 3
vast forum
700% is definitely too much
although i think 701% is still better than 700%
jokes aside tho, there isn't a specific number you should aim for, sim your gear and wear the best options
radiant vapor
Haste>crit?
remote panther
@wary ice 15% maybe its about what i run
dapper solar
for fights like M raden is infinite stars worth it if it sims higher than expedients for me? or are the extra adds make it not worth it https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ngkwGyjCNtCVVwkjX9LnAX
arctic walrus
It's a pretty quick fight nowadays so IS isn't that insane of value, and yeah extra adds can fuck you over
dapper solar
so in general what bosses should i use IS for? or at all?
loud brook
honestly, i've had better luck running rank 6 tendies and rank 2 crit with 50% crit on raden
arctic walrus
wrath and shad
loud brook
^
arctic walrus
maut technically but technically no as well
dapper solar
makes sense to me
so otherwise just stack expedient?
even tho it says 3k dps loss or whatever
loud brook
I mean maut means that running stars has a chance of gibbing you
ive also had a stars proc go off on an add
which made me mega tilt
young pebble
Does elaborate planning add the extra 10% to the same finisher that procced it, or only to subsequent damage?
wary ice
Only sub sequent thata why you try and clip the duration at the last possible second when not in cds
runic tinsel
Is the mechagon ring nature damage proc good? or rather how much worse than the haste proc is it? I have the damage one in 475 and a 465 backstab activator ring, sims lower than current setup but no corruptions and sockets on the mechagon ones
(ineff 2 on 475 one)
lost horizon
You'll have to sim it out to get a real answer, but the haste proc is what you're really after for sure
runic tinsel
yeah, i figured the stats were good on those rings and the proc is still free damage so it should be atleast half decent
tropic ocean
haste proc is superior and was so even before corruption
due to 100% uptime
compared to ICD nature dmg proc
@scarlet sequoia how many expedients did it take u to drop lucid minor?
last gyro
so what should i stack with expedient ?
like flat haste procc ?
or just full expedient
maybe increased dmg with crits or smth ?
runic tinsel
Full expedient i think
last gyro
so like 9 times ?
runic tinsel
but thats with max corruption resist. At this point its better to just sim with whatever you already have
every slot until you are as close to 39 corruption without going over it
last gyro
i just hate stars and tentacle
runic tinsel
yeah same. stars sims better on pure ST, but results can vary greatly with it, even on the same boss
last gyro
yeah
i hate rng
i just wanna have a good amount of dmg
I can deal all the time
wihtout relying on proccs
runic tinsel
yup, then expidient is the way to go, sims second highest on pure ST after stars. and its decent all around
last gyro
what for cleave ? crit % ?
runic tinsel
i guess? not sure, havnt simmed it. But crit give you more CP with FoK so.
runic tinsel
echoing, yeah
tropic ocean
for cleave crit % and strikethrough yeah
will need to sim a lot, cuz u want as much crit to always proc 5 eb (which varies depending on target count) and then just crit dmg iirc
last gyro
Sinclaire you sub main ?
last gyro
what do you think about mastery stack on sub ? would that make any sense
runic tinsel
that would be the way id go, just to mess around with giga crits
runic tinsel
1M crits wouldnt be unthinkable, but this discussion belongs in sub channel 🙂
vivid olive
Hey guys im really confused. i lvled a rogue for the first time ever and are now around 470 equipped. but i cant seem to find any answer to which azerite traits are best. So a bit of guidance would be nice. im currently stuck at around 55-60k dps and cant get past that on any boss. also agility seems to sim really bad, like 2 and crit is over 8, can that really be true?
vivid olive
ye i have checked all guides, bloodmallet, icy, wowhead and so on, but i cant seem to find the same answers anywhere to absolute bis traits i feel like all the sites say, those 3 are decent
vivid olive
im trying to thanks. i just think its weird that ravenholdt says shrouded suffocation is not needed and wowhead says up to 3 and nothing personal is atleast one, but do i want more of those. just thought there were one guideline for best output
loud brook
I like triple shroud and hod with tendies or just going all in on double dose
runic tinsel
Generally, double dose and vendetta is good for ST and Shrouded suffocation and ebon blade for AoE. But as with everything, simming your gear will net you better results
last gyro
with exa build I think SS is also st viable ?
loud brook
It is, I just take toxic blade because I can't handle all the extra energy flooding in yet
and they're close enough even with ss
it's like 5-7% increase for me
vivid olive
aight, im considering to go master assassin and leave out shrouded
last gyro
lanolesh you think HoD is better than NP ?
loud brook
for me it is because I have expedient and severe
but without those I think that NP is almost as good
loud brook
ranks or on items
loud brook
with that many expedients sang will probably be an even better dps increase, so shroud and hod is prolly bis
yeah that's always best
just remember, shroud's insane value comes from multidotting during your opener or vanish window
loud brook
let me dredge up my sims
loud brook
first one is just optimizing for st
sencond one is going shroud
these are with hectic add cleave for fights like vex https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8NBuCW4Vq4aQpEWjTF4Qm8
that being said, getting a set with hod and a set with eb and ss is what I have
so I can switch around to what my raid needs
more aoe or more st throughput with cleave capabilities
onyx hedge
I presume if your playing alliance, sinc the exsang build is simming higher you would want to race change to nelf over human
azure shoal
who here unethical haste 😩
onyx hedge
im at 51% baseline
loud brook
jesus
loud brook
im at 45% crit and 34% haste
azure shoal
around 101-102k on 5 minutes i think
onyx hedge
yeah that makes sense
azure shoal
should have ~4.5k the next time exp 3 comes around 😩
onyx hedge
I wasnt lucky with expedients apart from 1 rank 3, only got up to r12, farmed like 15k echos
loud brook
I blame university classes for me not farming 15k echoes
only got 1 rank 3 from the vendor
azure shoal
onyx hedge
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cuNie2QPc7ov6jusnZKiSb my shitty as sim LMAO, the reason its over 60, is because i missed a week, nzoth and then next week will get me caught up with yall fuckers
got out rolled on mythic raden helm twice now D:
At least i got the weapon Ezclap
How much u rekon a raden weapon and another expedient or two will give me?
im expecting at least 95k
Though im going to get but fucked by the gw nerf :I
loud brook
Hopefully it'll still be worth having as a minor corruption
azure shoal
did you put exp3 on gear without haste? 
azure shoal
legs
azure shoal
ah rough
onyx hedge
its still worth using
azure shoal
i think my stat weights are only just starting to equalize
onyx hedge
hmm actually
if i just chuck a legs with haste on, its like 3% more
O_o
Pepehands
r9 not r12
fuck my life 🙂
yo shivers, can i see your sim
azure shoal
i'll do one
last gyro
that should be like 270 haste or smth ?
onyx hedge
trophie...
pepelaugh
btw another glad trophie lmao
ngl tho, the dagger with the expedient, apart from the carapace one, i dont have a dagger with haste on it, feelsweirdman 
azure shoal
corruption 
onyx hedge
.. realistically i think i should have put my expedient on my seal of questionable loyalties
i was thinking maybe i could push haste to a point were vers would sim better, maybe it would be better for try push the haste over the threashold with enchants gems and expedients
azure shoal
i'll do my stat weights
onyx hedge
has anyone really hit that threashold? not sure what it would be. Like 60+ %?
vivid olive
so everyone is stack haste corruptions and not crit as assasin? :b
onyx hedge
With 50% its pretty chill on how much haste your getting
yeah for exsang build, you need it to amke up for the deeper strat
When you have that waiting to replace GW
azure shoal
stat weights for blood major: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/g34QBxXJF37qru7s78eZXB
onyx hedge
No clf major?
tropic ocean
try sim without lucid
azure shoal
i'm doing it now
tropic ocean
it gets worse at some point
onyx hedge
ah ok
last gyro
what would you take for lucid ?
tropic ocean
formless void
azure shoal
mm i'll look into it @tropic ocean
onyx hedge
Yo when it comes to simming, obviously droptimizer doesnt tell you how much dmg a azerite piece is going to be, can you go into top gear and change the ilvl of a heroic one to mythic, or do you have to go in a change the numerical values of the traits as well?
tropic ocean
looks like at some haste lvl lucid will make u overcap
😄
@onyx hedge gear compare
azure shoal
I don't feel like I overcap that much
onyx hedge
My brain went afk to save energy for our achiv run in 20 mins
tropic ocean
you probably willw ith lucid with more expediets
loud brook
At least you didn't go big brain time and make 4 different sets for assasination for testing
onyx hedge
I would just think as some point it would not sim better
tropic ocean
when u rec 50% or more of energy spent between the globals and lucid procs
already wasted energy
loud brook
I have like 3 copies of each nyalotha heroic azerite piece
onyx hedge
so once my GW goes away, vers is simming better for running the strikethrough and boots
because its 50% haste because of the stat on the gear?
Surely that is a mistake? I swear haste sims higher for alot longer
tropic ocean
doubt vers will be superior to expedient for raid
azure shoal
clf major stat weights: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d7LEP5miQQoRREy7is5Y87
onyx hedge
^
loud brook
everybody I see pulling more than 100k just has asstons of expedients
tropic ocean
+bleed ticks
loud brook
also the haste trinkets scale with expedient
azure shoal
high haste exsang actually feels kind of fun
dark crag
The statweights are still very close together
onyx hedge
Any explainations for me vers simming higher than haste, when i replace the gw pieces with the random boots nad strikethrough?
vivid olive
i know theres a long way to go. i have a r3 expedient in my bag waiting for a decent item to put it on
onyx hedge
wait for a high haste 475 item
frosty talon
can you trust dungeon slice sims for assa rogues?
tropic ocean
no
frosty talon
kk ty
thin dew
Fist vendor purcahase is 1hrs left in KR server, Im still wondering if I shoud buy TA or multiple exp rank3s
is everyone abandoning TA now?
azure shoal
exp rank 3
frosty talon
according the pins Expedient is the way
rancid spade
do you know the wae
hoary crown
Can some1 tell me in detail how the exang build should be played ? not just the opener, how to execute it in between vendetta windows ^^
scarlet sequoia
yes
u just refresh bleeds at normal pandemic timings unless you have exsang ready, then you wanna refresh rupture if it has less than 25 seconds left and garrote u can just press as well. you hold vendetta a little bit after the opener so it lines up with vanish again and that should also make exsang line up more or less
hoary crown
oh okey thx alot for taking your time mate! But is it worth like overcapping shitloads of cp just for having that full deeper strat bleed or is it either 5 or 6 cp's ? 🙂
scarlet sequoia
you refresh rupture at 4+ and you envenom at 5+
loud brook
Wait
scarlet sequoia
before exsang you ideally 6 cp rupture ofc
loud brook
You hold vendetta?
covert mesa
you can quick sim your char and see how sim craft will play your char
loud brook
Jeez that's gonna take some unlearning
scarlet sequoia
you hold vendetta the first time so it lines up with vanish yes
loud brook
Understandable
loud brook
Does the increased tick rate of your dots mean more chances of tentacles to procs?
scarlet sequoia
you vanish 20 seconds ish after the pull, this means vendetta and vanish wont line up, so you hold the 2nd vendetta till vanish is ready
and idk who plays tentacles
hoary crown
Ahh yeah !^^
tropic ocean
it should mean more chances right
cuz every attack can trigger it?
but im not sure
limber lion
Only got 2 Expedients, so kinda forced to keep playing tentacles until the next vendor reset :'(
tropic ocean
cuz tents are shit
loud brook
Tents aren't horrible cev, they'll hold you over until you can build up an expedient profile
bleak crag
It might procs a bit more, but these procs work with procs per minute
So I'm not sure it affects that much if at all
loud brook
I see
tropic ocean
did anyone sim/compare dd build with expedients vs exsang (with nzoth shoulder maybe?)
static glacier
how much haste are the two mechagon rings wurf
static glacier
hm
bleak crag
without any buff
tropic ocean
147+459+189 * expedients
static glacier
I have two optimal statted haste + crit rings with sockets, guess i'll still replace over time
static glacier
probably when good corruptions come again
since one of my current rings has expedient
static glacier
idk if I want to bother carrying on
orange parses can't even top dps in this new guild im in
why doesn't sin scale as hard as other dps? I don't understand it, typically dot classes do well end of expac
bleak crag
sin scales pretty well still but he's coming from so low on the board
that it seems bad x)
But hey was godlike in legion , guess each class got their turn
static glacier
on wcl seems that performance has gone to shit since pre nerf days
bleak crag
Except warlocks they are always up there
royal lantern
main problem is not scaling
static glacier
like I understand our multitarget isn't a specialty, but even boss dmg isn't a win
royal lantern
its "wich class sclaes with stat lvls you are normaly not supposed too reach" and "do you have broken azerite traits"
imagine dh without f.gaze
would be soooooooo much weaker
bleak crag
On legion I had an average parse of 80 ish and now I struggle to keep it at 60 with bad corruptions
royal lantern
that has nothing too do with the class mate
bleak crag
Corruptions can be cool
royal lantern
parses are CLASS based, not overall
static glacier
yeah
bleak crag
I guess but procs
royal lantern
and parses this tier are close too ussules
no
parses are simply dead with corruptions
IS and tentacles are a thing
static glacier
Im salty that you can parse well for your class and still not really do well compared to other classes
who parse lower
royal lantern
top parse=somone stacked IS/tentacles and had the 1 out of 100000 pull where it proced all the time on the right target
has nothing too do with"other people got better"
bleak crag
yeah I run tentacle sometimes I get lucky and it's like hello I'm at 90 haaha
static glacier
60-80 isn't super highroll with corruptions
royal lantern
some of those logs even use bad talents, but doesnt matter when IS is 86%of your dmg
static glacier
parsing 95 vs 99 sure, there's rng there
scarlet sequoia
honestly top parses arent all tentacles and IS
royal lantern
#1log is almost always cheese
static glacier
can't wait til I get some more expedients so I can roll with bleed build
tropic ocean
don't care about ur overall log
ur job in raid is to push boss/prio dmg
like in nzoth im 30-40k behind other classes in my raid
but almost x2 their boss dmg
bleak crag
N'zoth is a big padding boss haha
tropic ocean
same on carapace
bleak crag
Look you're obviously the smart player here, but what if all I want is cleave and be useless 😢
tropic ocean
well then
for nzoth go outlaw and pad like a maniac
or play 3 eb hidden blades in carapace
bleak crag
Don't worry I do it already
tropic ocean
to each his own but I think making the kill smoother/faster is better
and you don't need to pad logs if you want it to find a better guild
static glacier
how is this fucking ok guys
tropic ocean
decent/good guilds rather look at your prio dmg/dmg taken/shit failed
static glacier
these classes do much more aoe dmg, fully mobile and ranged
AND they do more boss dmg
kek
royal lantern
balanced is fucked
static glacier
where is our niche
royal lantern
too many outer sources
royal lantern
^
tropic ocean
what?
royal lantern
mate
static glacier
we do less prio / boss dmg than the outliers
tropic ocean
name one class outside firemage combust that can do more dps on nzoth dps window
than assa
royal lantern
do you complain WHAT IS MY NICHE everytime another class is doing more st dmg then you?
this patch is fucked as hell balance wise
everyone knows that
bleak crag
Warlock Bm hunter probably
tropic ocean
wat
static glacier
not always, just these ones happen to be extremely good aoe
i dont complain about affli for example
royal lantern
but jesus, that shit goes away in SL cus all the top classes rn are only so strong because of outer sources
static glacier
heck, if feral or ench did more st i'd not open my mouth
royal lantern
play fire without the right azerite/corruption/bracers setup
simply doesnt work at all
static glacier
just fully mobile ranged dps with good aoe rub me the wrong way
royal lantern
and rn they dont even change that in sl
bleak crag
To be fair tho it's pretty much impossible to balance super well all classes( Ok mage is a bit over the top)
static glacier
I don't even mind that arcane beats us at all
royal lantern
mage is not even the problem
static glacier
that's fair enough
bleak crag
and you do need a good class and a worse one every xpac
royal lantern
why do people think mage is the problem lol
bleak crag
Rogue was top in legion
static glacier
and I didn't play rogue in legion kek
royal lantern
fire atleast has HUGE requirements in gear and corruptions too work
bleak crag
Rogue was dope in legion
static glacier
feelsbad
tropic ocean
i dont see how
royal lantern
bm hunter is the "lel get too 120 and out dmg everyone"spec
static glacier
was druid, was fun
royal lantern
and it does even more then fire
royal lantern
^
static glacier
since most fights are aoe, but i'll be quiet
royal lantern
rogue is decent is thier
tropic ocean
and theres no infinite aoe anyway
tropic ocean
like you also need to look at logs with understanding of the raid encounter
you don need 14 dps doing aoe on vexiona
or hivemind
or w/e
if your raid is smart
you want as little people as possible doing that job
so everyone can push boss
static glacier
but im stoopid 😦
royal lantern
never touched FoK on vexiona/hivemind
just doing boss dmg
why should i care about overall dmg then
static glacier
guess ill just pump bosses and be content with my place
loud brook
There doesnt have to be a horrible spec every goddamn expansion that gets promised fixes and just gets small numbers buffs
royal lantern
ofc i look at boss dmg, CUS THATS WHAT IM DOING/MY STRENGHT
my "aoe"on vexiona was
loud brook
In all my time this expansion, I've seen 4 shadow priests and 5 enhancement shamans
gusty mirage
queue popcorn gif
royal lantern
loud brook
I'm just upset in general about blizzard's class balancing metric of put band aid on it
loud brook
Like the class is an 8 year old with a scraped knee
bleak crag
Rogue still has really good utility for many things and both spec
loud brook
Some essences were tweaked for everyone
royal lantern
bfa balance is fucked @loud brook was since 8.0, cant even be mad anymore at this point and just laught at how horrible it is, and accept it 
bleak crag
and outlaw is pretty strong on M+
tropic ocean
sin is strong on m+ too
prime void
Sin is not strong on m plus
static glacier
true actually, im happy about rogue in m+
prime void
Lmfao
royal lantern
but like
tropic ocean
lol
bleak crag
People could prob argue that rogue isn't balance in m+
raven mica
sin is only strong in M+ when you actually have a tank that lets you get restealths
royal lantern
rogue WAS one of the top classes for every single raidtier except nya
static glacier
just because we're not best doesn't mean it's not good
prime void
For keys that most people do sure
royal lantern
where its "only" good
tropic ocean
@raven mica wrong
bleak crag
Sin is good for certains keys
tropic ocean
🙂
gusty mirage
I’d be more upset about everything that happened this entire expansion. All the systems we have in place felt awful and have felt worse as the expansion progressed 🤷🏻♂️
prime void
We’ve had this discussion over and over
bleak crag
I do all my underrot keys as sin
loud brook
Member those mdi groups that ran three outlaws. I member
tropic ocean
ty
bleak crag
pretty sure ive seen sins in 26 -27
prime void
Any spec does 24
raven mica
so ur tank chainpulls like nuts
tropic ocean
yeah so
raven mica
and you still do fine
prime void
Just so yah know
tropic ocean
@raven mica ask seliathan if chainpulling is good or bad for sin
prime void
Saying sin is strong is just ignorant
raven mica
while basically wasting a lot of the potential of three of ur azerite traits.
tropic ocean
or any other high ranked sin player
(you can also get restealth with chainpulls too)
loud brook
What keystone level does blizzard balance around?
royal lantern
15
gusty mirage
Chain pulling is fine for sin as long as you’re able to throw up enough bleeds so you don’t get gimped on energy regen
tropic ocean
i guess around the ones for majority of players
loud brook
Makes sense at 15
raven mica
its hard to comprehend how a sin who never gets restealths cuz his tank's an idiot.
tropic ocean
not sure how to complain about balance when every class can do
royal lantern
people doing keys over 19 are allready REALLY rare
tropic ocean
more content than 99% of players can do
royal lantern
and like, people that push that will take the best class anyway
m+ will always favor some classes
tropic ocean
@raven mica again, u can restealth while chainpulling
royal lantern
its just how5man content works
raven mica
well if u can get restealths
then sin is really strong, and brings a lot of unique things that outlaw doesnt
loud brook
I'm not complaining about sin btw, I'm complaining about my alts being shit
raven mica
like crippling poison and iron wire.
prime void
I don’t think you understand what chainpulling is
By definition
But that’s okay ausr
bleak crag
You do balance a game for the high tier player tho not mid / average
raven mica
@bleak crag depends on the game
royal lantern
if you only balance for high tier, games will get fucked
raven mica
some games benefit massively from balancing around lower tier
loud brook
I mean, starting at a high level of balance is fine as long as it scales well down
raven mica
Trickle Down Balance IS a viable way of balancing a game
royal lantern
and wow allready is balanced around higher tier stuff, cus classes are balanced around mythic raiding
loud brook
Like holy shit you couldnt pay me to do lfr nzoth
bleak crag
Any game with a competitive scene will usually be balance a lot around high tier with some balance for middle tier to keep them into play
loud brook
They fucked up hard with nzoth
bleak crag
and wow has a competitive scene :p
static glacier
to be fair, I think KJ lfr was worse than Nzoth
tropic ocean
@prime void when u fix ur traits, corruptions and gear
gusty mirage
LFR nzoth is the hardest content in the game 
tropic ocean
u'll perform better in keys too
loud brook
Oh yeah, they fucked up with kj real hard too
prime void
😂😂
static glacier
nothing personnel kid
loud brook
And coven of shirvarra lfr was actually impossible
gusty mirage
Nothing personal is only okay if your other option on that tier is literally dogshit
loud brook
I still have nightmares about that fight
royal lantern
NP in keys 
raven mica
LFR durumu
tropic ocean
and not sure why u flame ppl from this disc on ur stream
raven mica
LFR archimonde
prime void
who is talking about dest trinket
loud brook
Ew
prime void
tf
static glacier
i don't think i ever touched lfr archi
gusty mirage
But like this far into the patch traits should be mostly sorted tbh
loud brook
You are better off not touching it
raven mica
uhhhhh
@gusty mirage assassination M+ is like the most cancer shit to get gear because all 3 are specific residuum pieces
its like what, 1 helm, 1 shoulder, and 2 chests?
static glacier
so uh, at how many targets is the rupture trait not bad 
royal lantern
its always bad
prime void
static glacier
prime void
meh i feel like my key dmg is okay
loud brook
Ive been meaning to ask
tropic ocean
XD
my key dmg is fine, therefore its fine playing suboptimal and flame everyone
big logic
loud brook
While I was looking at sin logs, some run twist the knife
prime void
how is my gear suboptimal?
loud brook
Is that an ok trait now
static glacier
🍿
gusty mirage
Well two shoulders pistoleers and gold tassel, plus chest piece from raid w/ SS/HoD isn’t bad for tyran weeks. Yeah but they really messed up gearing assa m+ from the raid @raven mica
bleak crag
Got some more of that popcorn Mo?
tropic ocean
mindflay is suboptimal corruption for m+ for exasmple
example*
if you use motorcycle trinket like in ur skillbar
its bad
raven mica
And also consider how that you are also rolling for: Sin raid pieces, and this isnt even considering if you want outlaw or sub pieces for various reasons.
gusty mirage
I just kinda accepted I’ll never get gorak tuls 🙃
raven mica
I have the TD shoulders and mechagon chest so I have 2/3, but id need to roll fluid machinations to like be kinda viable as assassination in M+
raven mica
actually no cuz
loud brook
I believe in you oxi
raven mica
you could use raden helm
like I COULD play assassination in keys but I havent played assassination in a mythic+ setting since fucking uldir so I dont
bleak crag
I don't think motorcycle is very optimal in any situation tbh
But if that's the best you got , why not :p
static glacier
@loud brook I think you're seeing TTk just because it's on the carapace chest
tropic ocean
I mean ignoring things and flaming ppl u talk to on discord as rtards and kids and shits while chatting here is just very bad attitude
loud brook
Fair
tropic ocean
xD
prime void
fuckign report me?
tropic ocean
why should I
tropic ocean
if you don't want to improve its your choice not mine 😄
prime void
good chat filter abuse aswell
tropic ocean
but might be a bit weird flex to flame ppl at shits and kids
that play way higher than u
🤷
loud brook
You could say that this chat is turning a little... toxic!
prime void
Yeah you're right 🙂
static glacier
nah, they're just talking real
loud brook
🥁
gusty mirage
like I COULD play assassination in keys but I havent played assassination in a mythic+ setting since fucking uldir so I dont
@raven mica tbh I don’t blame you. This entire patch has me refusing to go back into raid except to try to get a 2nd raden wep for outlaw 😂
bleak crag
Toxic ---> Ass rogue nice one lanlo
raven mica
also my rogue isnt even my main anymore.
loud brook
I couldnt resist the pun man
bleak crag
Good one I'd check your one man show
tropic ocean
well currently you play at 2.4k
loud brook
It calls to me
tropic ocean
and postoverall from +16 freehold
to justify gear choices
which is just very flawed logic
prime void
Im 3ss 3eb
and you say my az is wrong
like thats just silly mate
im plumage / spyglass
and say my trinekts are werong
loud brook
Which helmet has those 2 traits again?
raven mica
Fluid Machinations
prime void
making assumptions is just stupid and makes an ass out of you
loud brook
Gotcha
raven mica
only helm in the fucking game this season
static glacier
good pun
loud brook
Alright, goin to bed. Been fun talking with everyone
static glacier
we're on a roll today
loud brook
Yeee
prime void
rollin rollin rollin
tropic ocean
actually this:
AusrToday at 1:09 PM
@Miz 🖤 when u fix ur traits, corruptions and gear
is what I said when we talked about chainpulling
which is correct
🙂
static glacier
I think you guys have different definitions for chain pulling
prime void
just shhhhh mate
tisu go back to your home
you dont play at a high enough level to talk here sir
static glacier
it can be useful, minimise the namecalling / max the actual real talk
also max the puns
here's a question - is trait placement on certain gear very deliberate by blizzard?
raven mica
yes.
static glacier
so they just decided to not allow people who aren't luckerdogs to have EB?
raven mica
yea.
tropic ocean
except for helmet u have multiple pieces tho
static glacier
thank the stars I have the helmet
bleak crag
You can always save for those 20k azerite 😂
If you only do a 15 per week without scraping in 10 weeks you get your head!
raven mica
waycrest chest too
static glacier
Im pretty sure it's faster to roll and sell missed rolls on average
for shoulders anyway
static glacier
and gorak tul is a consolation prize for missing
bleak crag
Ive rolled like 10 so far
static glacier
how's it gone
tropic ocean
as u use it in raid and m+
bleak crag
I'm about to give up
Gorak's tul is dope, but I think N'zoth shoulders are better ?
and ilgynoth or drest shoulders not sure where they drop
tropic ocean
not sure
bleak crag
is good for ass rogue that I know of
tropic ocean
but gorak tul is >> ilgynoth
static glacier
but im fairly sure gorak are bis raiding
tropic ocean
especially for dungeons where u actually not use echoing shoulders
static glacier
for an echoing dungeon, assuming you have two other echoing, would you use echoing shoulders or gorak?
bleak crag
Dungeon N'zoth shoulders maybe would have to sim if the minor trait is worth that 10 ilvl
tropic ocean
I personally use echoing for all trash dungeons
and I switch off of them for tos/kr/siege/workshop
static glacier
question, do you not play outlaw
bleak crag
I can get behind people that prefers assassination
The spec isn't that bad it has great tools
- that kidney shot
tropic ocean
I played sub some time ago, liked it the most
bleak crag
Ooooh that kidney shot
tropic ocean
but when it was gutted between assassination and outlaw I liked assassination more
so i sticked with it
bleak crag
Wasn't sub top rogue spec early this xpac?
raven mica
sub was played in MDI in season 1
bleak crag
I thought so !
verbal sparrow
boyz is it worth to have that one 120 agi or just have only haste gems ?
tropic ocean
sim
raven mica
they did the shit wher
static glacier
sub was v good on launch of bfa
raven mica
people did this back in legion too
tropic ocean
but the playstyle generally was really fun too
bleak crag
''kinda'' x)
tropic ocean
yeah well fun yeah
bleak crag
I'm really not a good sub never put the time into the spec
static glacier
it just seems complex to start with, realistically it's not hard once you get over the initial hurdle
tropic ocean
lots of things seem complex for many classes
static glacier
since you substitute BS with ShS
bleak crag
I tried to sub Pvp
tropic ocean
but there are barely any hard classes rotation wise in current state of game
static glacier
it's just press SD + SoD and pump ShS in those globals
it's closer to like 20-40 sec cd
honestly It's a stretch to call it a cd, SD is rotational tbh
infact one may compare it to TB
it's quite similar in how it's played, avoid refreshing dots, pool energy for it
ocean cape
on mm+ like 15 and more, i play with 3 garrots.The most corrup i need is 2 Twisted Appendage lvl 2 and severe3 every where ?
static glacier
dislike appendage for M+, rng can screw you if it procs on a dying mob / end of pack
it's all the downsides of TD without the huge payoff
it's usable, but try to aim for severe and maybe strikethrough if you want trash dmg with EB
tropic ocean
as long as there are mobs it doesnt matter
when one dies it starts attacking another
ocean cape
oh ok, actually i play with TD3 + 2TD1 and 1severe 1
static glacier
even if it hits another, can't direct the dmg 😦
static glacier
pog
tropic ocean
then u have other kills where it doesnt proc at all on boss
so generally would take stat corruptions/crit dmg over them as soon as they are accessible
for consistency
static glacier
does strikethrough overtake severe?
after like 5-6 severe's with optimised crit gear / eb?
tropic ocean
dont think u need that much severe
afaik u want as much crit to proc 5 echoings per fok
(which varies depending on target count)
and rest should be crit dmg
but will need to sim a lot and different target counts to get somewhat accurate answer
static glacier
depends on dungeon, TD is for the most part good for overall dmg in trash dungeons
tropic ocean
for tyrannical probably yeah
but the thinking should be how much do u need some extra boss dps more
to lose 10%ish overall
or more
depending on key
ocean cape
yes ok
manic pebble
prisma monolithBOT
Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.
static glacier
anyone theorycrafted non dagger Sin 
lone junco