expedient 3 is 6465/6476 and corruption is usually around the 4th or 5th item id
#assassination
rancid bobcat
modern bear
Youtube
rancid bobcat
or you can just do somethinng like
neck=,id=158075,bonus_id=6316/4932/4933/1662,context=11,azerite_level=96
shoulder=",id=159339,ilevel=480,azerite_powers=87/30/193/408"
chest=",id=174131,ilevel=480,azerite_powers=15/30/408/136"
main_hand=",id=172227,ilevel=485,gem_id=168641,bonus_id=6465/6476,enchant_id=5963"
off_hand=",id=159131,ilevel=475,gem_id=168641,enchant_id=5965,bonus_id=6536/6578/6579/1647/4786"
trinket1=",id=159614,ilevel=475,gem_id=168641"
trinket2=",id=174500,ilevel=475,gem_id=168641"
finger1=",id=169157,ilevel=475,gem_id=168641,enchant_id=6109,bonus_id=6465/6476"
finger2=",id=169159,ilevel=465,gem_id=168641,enchant_id=6109,bonus_id=6465/6476"
feet=",id=174144,ilevel=485,gem_id=168641,bonus_id=6465/6476"
waist=",id=174142,ilevel=475,gem_id=168641,bonus_id=6465/6476"
hands=",id=159344,ilevel=475,gem_id=168641,bonus_id=6465/6476"
legs=",id=159322,ilevel=475,gem_id=168641,bonus_id=6465/6476"
wrist=",id=174138,ilevel=475,gem_id=168641,bonus_id=6465/6476"
back=,id=169223,bonus_id=6587/1472,context=11```Basically i want to have a bit of a hybrid build so i can use like 2 expedients 2 severe
wicked anvil
2x double dose OR 1x double dose + 1x shrouded suffocation ?
modern bear
So i can raid OR mythic plus
crimson palm
you dont sim add cleave
modern bear
Why nah?
crimson palm
its not optimized
icy osprey
odd, I tried simming 6x expedient 3 with 2500 haste and it sims lower than the setup I have right now, 2x tendies rank 3
modern bear
Tents too op
icy osprey
prob went overboard with that much haste though
thick root
Hi - I'm brand new to rogue, but i really want to learn this.... I'm playing sin. Is everyone building 2 gearsets - 1 for ST bosses, and 1 for aoe/addcleave/dungeons?
icy osprey
had like no other stats
north ibex
Yeah I simmed higher with tendies too
thick root
Or should I just stack crit to have a set that kinda works with both?
cuz haste is BIS st, but worst for aoe?
modern bear
In cleave i can make any build
But td always sims highest..
Any other sim than hecticadd i should use?
north ibex
I currently have two TD2 , Do y’all think it’s worth replacing it with Tendies
modern bear
For m+ i run r3 td and r2 mindflay
Works well
Idk how ppl get 100k dps on patchwork as outlaw honestly thats insane
As highest sims here i see o jn assa are also around 100k
tribal marlin
little root
do you need to reaply dots inside honed mind window to get buff it?
icy osprey
they prob run
severe/strikethroughs
or other ST shit
my outlaw aoe spec still sims 70k with TD so im sure u can get 30k changing some stuff around
outer lotus
hes not talking about sims i think
modern bear
70k on patchwork?
I saw a 100k sim
In other chat
I scrolled up
When im at pc il search
iron plover
On ilgynoth: if you cloak just before the mind control cast .... does a.) it still target you, but you're immune to it, b.) you're immune to it, thus off the table of targets or c.) nothing happens except you still get MC'd and now have a few seconds of cloak running
warm parcel
Dno if it has changed since then
modern bear
Rip gushing tho
rancid bobcat
thats a lot of gushing and also 66 corruption
that's like the 110k assassination sims flying around atm
rancid bobcat
modern bear
So my 73k assa sim is not too bad considering im using no expedients yet
Without gushibf
modern bear
7 expedients haha
cobalt pelican
it depends on what your gear stats are but yeah
cobalt pelican
there's definitely going to be some room for non-expedient haste blurping
whether that's severe or reshuffling gear stats and playing gw idk yet
rancid bobcat
well im using enchants to account for that
cant do gems unfortunately cause thats way too high
rancid bobcat
just theoretical
i do have all the base gear
and should end up with maybe 5 exp before vendor switches
modern bear
Oh i see since u cant cleane the da gger
And put exp on it
4500echoes atm
I May get 2???
rancid bobcat
5 should be good enough given the cap
modern bear
5k echoes is a lot
rancid bobcat
i dont think i'd cleanse cara dagger either, until way later
modern bear
Can u show me the sim for ur current
warm parcel
The amount of overflow
modern bear
Set?
warm parcel
modern bear
How many exps?
And like whats ur haste atm
%
I like have even crit to haste
And more mastery
modern bear
Brb gonna chck in a sdx
chilly marsh
im starting to think4x exps will be the top
chilly marsh
when lucid is pushed out because to much haste its prob better going for other corruption
civic hinge
If I'm solely interested in m+ should i go full expedient Train or wait for severe 3 and pump crit?
rancid bobcat
nah i tried a 2x severe and it's lower even with no lucid
modern bear
U dont need lucid with 4 exp?
chilly marsh
at some point yes lucid is out
sour glade
What are good corruption for m+? masterful or honed mind if I already have lots of crit and tendy daggers?
slow tulip
one juicy TD 3
nocturne gate
horny or hungry ?
warm parcel
Why not both
nocturne gate
good point sir
loud silo
how does the opener for subterfuge without SS go?
subterfuge is simming better but the opener is janky af and i wanna make sure im doing it right
royal lantern
you...open with garrote....and then it stays the same....?
rancid bobcat
Damn the sin still ain't done
loud silo
ah shit yeah, my brain is melted rn i think i need sleep
civic hinge
Opinions on this? I simmed only for M+ (4 Targets - 40/60 sec), Full Crit is Severe 15, Crit is Severe 9 + Honed 3, Every set was simmed with 2 GW pieces.
Looks like Severe would be the way to go for, or am i missing something?
warm parcel
rancid bobcat
F
magic thorn
Does someone know how much crit value you need for 1% crit?
Example: As Feral i know that 72 crit gives you 1%
Someone got that Number for rogues/assa?
rancid bobcat
I got lucky on my division ring with a masterful so I never cleansed
rancid bobcat
I don't think I cleansed anything actually
I think the only stat that has a different value/% ratio is mastery
Between classes
magic thorn
Well i cant fact check it because im on my phone
rancid bobcat
Get the advanced tool tips addon
magic thorn
So i wanted to ask
woeful minnow
it's 72, yes
magic thorn
Cant be 72 because i know I have arround 3k crit and am at 51% something
magic thorn
So we got 10% baseline crit?
magic thorn
Ok thx then I need to value that in
lean marten
why u divide by 27 not 38
rancid bobcat
woeful minnow
rancid bobcat
it's 72/1%
warm parcel
Cause thats how much it says
unkempt karma
2x mythic wraith weapons... just need corruptions now
magic thorn
Yeah
lean marten
so base is 11
rancid bobcat
magic thorn
So you got 11% base with belf
warm parcel
base is 10, Im 11 cause belf
magic thorn
K that's why my calc didn't made sense
proven moth
There's any softcap for crit haste? Or just 
magic thorn
Then I will reach 81% crit if I buy my severe pieces. M+ gonna be funny
rancid bobcat
7 exp/2 severe
with a smidge of crit
idk how that looks with crit/haste raid bracers or crit/haste belt
interesting to see strife and blood on the essences though
lone junco
@icy osprey tendies may be a little higher, and also, if you stack expedients, make sure you enable crit gems as an option.
but when your tendys dont proc you might get sad.
some people like rng gains though.
rancid bobcat
man idk if i can make it to 7 expedient this week though
definitely 5
but i dont feel -as- bad not having 40k echos
shy axle
how do you plan to do it?
rancid bobcat
but i still feel pretty bad
lone junco
i got my ineffable 80% on pally. so silly when it procs
upper elm
are rogues going to stack more if now as corruption vendor is availible?
woeful minnow
what
tender folio
Guys is it worth getting that +120 agi gem, what is your opinion on that ?
strange python
Have Rogues Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?
rigid mango
Wat
fallow peak
Kick that communist spy out, at least until his English improved
honest basin
Do sims reflect the Exsang build as they should ?
rancid bobcat
You've got to be kidding me. Rogues have been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It's just common sense.
soft shale
needs more deciding
last gyro
7 pieces expedient ? or expedient rank 7 ?
nocturne gate
pieces brewchacho
last gyro
isn't that like 140 corruption it self ?
rancid bobcat
you can play 140 if you're on farm
last gyro
or when cloack is maxed out ?
rancid bobcat
atm
rancid bobcat
technically 145
boreal maple
why do u mention corruption number that way
last gyro
what's with the mechagon rings ?
the one when you hit from behind + deal nature dmg
is that ok ?
little sandal
hello guys whats the haste cap for exsa and whats stats should i play with
last gyro
and what is DD from the pin for assa ?
vapid scarab
@last gyro it's okay but the haste is better than the nature dmg one
DD is double dose
azerite trait
nova basalt
rancid bobcat
rank 4 expedient currently could either mean 9+9 or 12+6 or 6+6+6+6
u didnt see that edit
warm parcel
typically people say rank12 as in 4 of rank 3s
last gyro
is crit still good or should I go full versa haste ?
warm parcel
or 3+3+2+2+2
rancid bobcat
yeah
boreal maple
rank4 means the actual rank
rancid bobcat
im just being pedantic
rancid bobcat
cause if your ranks are all rank 1s you'll actually have more overall
compared to people with 2s and 3s
i mean technically i have rank 2 expedient, being 2x rank 1s
so
coarse vault
boreal maple
rank 9 x1s 
tender folio
Wondering about myth+ and should we still stack crit or there is alternative hmm
void pecan
crit is still strong in M+
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Are you the lucky few that got echoes this whole time @rancid bobcat 😐
rancid bobcat
nope
jovial canopy
been running crit/vers for m+
verbal sparrow
Does Bleeds and poisons punish you back on Maut ?
tender folio
I'm on 6k alrdy
steel wagon
What are you guys grinding for them?
Arena?
Legit about to drop 5m on arena caries cause I cba to have someone sit with me and do arena for 20 hours
lone junco
@steel wagon whats your rating? and are you NA?
steel wagon
Like 1500ish
lethal heart
people also had echoes coming into this week
steel wagon
Na horde
unborn pendant
So I simmed myself and a 475 Dragonscale is simming higher than a 460 Vita. Does that seem right, though?
lethal heart
so values are very random
unborn pendant
Yeah, that's why I'm a bit lost here.
How much DPS is Vita technically worth?
(And by that I mean the raid buff part to it)
cobalt pelican
depends a lot on what's in your party
consider it ~75-80 haste to each of your 4 party members
unborn pendant
The sims show Dragonscale as roughly 500 DPS ahead. Would the Haste party buff swing things in Vita's favor?
cobalt pelican
yeah for sure
most classes don't HATE haste even if they don't love it, and generally raid groups will have the vitas together and vita users generally like haste
i'd say you can safely say it's a minimum of 2.5k raid dps
chilly marsh
vendor wll only change friday night right ?
weary marten
Hey guys ! Any ideas what corruption we should aim now with corruption vendor ? i'm trying to fit both pve and pvp also so hard to choose
lethal heart
it will change once small vision gets reset
so firday night for NA/saturady evening for EU i guess?
scarlet sequoia
weak
weary marten
yeah that's stupid ...
chilly marsh
mage alt
bught 3 masterfull 2
and still have 25k to use
saving for masterfull 3
=/
chilly marsh
not really
back still 15 this week
lol
cant use it all
but its mage \o/
will do more dmg than us anyway lol
vocal hatch
Is anyone around to teach me how to play assassin as the yt guide and shit is confusing af
minor thicket
is that a real question?
vocal hatch
Obv I’m a fuckin noob at this shit
I played sub but apparently it’s the the worst one
vocal hatch
So me trying to figure out how to play assassin in a 80 zone isn’t going well at all
minor thicket
depends how tyou want your build
minor thicket
obv
vocal hatch
I mean what’s your main attack on assassin
vocal hatch
Okok well how would you go about fighting a boss
minor thicket
thats not in any order
minor thicket
worry about getting to 120 first
arctic walrus
build points with mutilate
if you think the target wil live awhile put rupture and garrote on
otherwise finish with envenom
balmy condor
@vocal hatch I think one of the guides pinned would help you out a lot, wowhead/ravenholdt/icyveins all have a guide, they're written very similarly, feel free to check out whichever one you prefer
modern bear
someone that is simming like the 4 expedients
can u put it on dungeon slice and link it?
modern bear
others say so idk?!
balmy condor
I thought they still had that awful technical problem where there's no restealths
cause dungeon slice is just one big fight with downtime in between "packs"
lean marten
i think it restealths just doesn't optimize bleeds that well
modern bear
it seems to sim fine tho
modern bear
like compared to my outlaw spec just 7k dps short
balmy condor
thats what I thought
modern bear
but it gives me an idea
balmy condor
I mean, thank god for restealth
balmy condor
you could just give yourself 4 expedients
hot pro tip coming in
if you want to top-gear with a piece that you have
and you want to simulate it having exped3
copy the line into the bag section
finger 1 for example
put a hash in front of it like the rest of the gear
and then add that /6476/6470 that I put in the second screenshot
at the end of the bonus_id
this highlighted line
is the same line
but has the / stuff at the end
that'll give you a duplicate item with exped3 on it to use
strange python
Anyone mind looking over my quick sim? Just trying to see if there's anything I should change as far as talents, corruptions, etc.
strange python
I have kind of shit gear so I'm working with what I got. Trying to squeeze as much out as I can before I get new weps and a trink
balmy condor
get rid of the pvp trinket immediately, the wrathion trinket is usable, copy ivan's essences
more expedient, more haste
strange python
Working on it! Haven't had any luck with drops
balmy condor
you gear, for the level, seems fine
strange python
Change the ring enchant to haste or keep crit?
balmy condor
its just all low ilvl, no socket, meh corruptions
wouldn't bother micro-managing that hard
strange python
kk
Rank 2 blood of the enemy ok? worldvein sims higher for me but i feel it's kind of boring
balmy condor
depends on your raid group
I haven't seen rank 2 blood in a long time
so idk how bad it is
but its considerably worse than rank 3
woeful minnow
it's bad
strange python
Lol hey man I took a longggg break and didn't do much pvp before hand, still catching up
woeful minnow
I don't know what you have but a lot of things are gonna be better than bote2
balmy condor
yeah I would assume so as well
modern bear
why is condensed life force so good?
i dont get it
is the guardian so op[?
for 30 sec
balmy condor
no
lone junco
haste
balmy condor
^
shy axle
iirc scales good with ilvl of your neck + haste
modern bear
after guardian
balmy condor
haste is gone?
strange python
yeah i'm at rank 2 for both cle and bote
lone junco
haste is energy return. until you cap E, it is going to be good.
rose sapphire
Does anyone know if corrupting a BOE makes it soulbound?
balmy condor
Im 95% sure it does
urban minnow
If I don’t have CLF to use as a major what is the next best?
balmy condor
bote
lone junco
or breath if you were too lazy to farm the pvp
strange python
Best way to get the honor? pvp islands? bg spam?
balmy condor
or VoP
strange python
I'm only at 10k ughhhh
tropic jackal
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8Ret3h5LbU2dkzoWi72cUf
could you guys also give me a tip or two? I'm 469 ilvl and i'm simming 3k lower than hasubaka at 455
balmy condor
yeah its hard to see quick sims
balmy condor
standard minors are conflict/lucid/breath
iris for single target
vop minor can be good
iron glacier
Hey guys, just checking in, have we been able to sim out the nerf for GW yet?
balmy condor
GW isn't nerfed yet
so it's not in nightly
so you can't sim it
unless you change the value of GW in your simulationcraft
tropic jackal
once i replace my gladiator badge should i use vop instead?
tropic jackal
oh it's so that i can always have the glad badge available when vendetta comes back up
nimble mesa
Question: Is there any form of snapshoting when playing exangue build ?
balmy condor
yes
when you hit the button
unless they magically changed the code
they said they wanted to fix it
but to my knowledge they never did
rancid blaze
Got a quick question. When I sim it’s tell me to take subterfuge over MA. I’m running all DD and no SS. Is there a reason subterfuge would be better?
limber merlin
Noobie question, but what does Snapshot means?
scarlet sequoia
its like a screenshot
balmy condor
snapshotting is the concept that the buff states of a DoT/HoT are saved at a certain point
and last through the actual buff expiring
limber merlin
U mean if my Stealth Garrot doing 23k dmg Per tick and I reset it at Last 5 sec
balmy condor
iirc, the way exsang works, it removes the bleed you applied, and reapplies a new bleed with the new tick rate
runic tinsel
What is to opener with subt without SS?
limber merlin
It will Again do 23k dmg for the next 31 sec?
loud light
once upon a time some dots in the game worked that way
balmy condor
so if you have a garrote doing 23k per tick
loud light
but most are gone and update dynamically with your current buffs
wide linden
guys
balmy condor
and then vendetta runs out
wide linden
what coruption should i go for?
balmy condor
wide linden
oh okay
balmy condor
then the exsang'd garrote
will still have the vendetta buff
because you casted exsang while the vendetta was still up
scarlet sequoia
9999999999999999999999.99% sure that exsang ONLY snapshots haste
boreal maple
what
scarlet sequoia
not any other shit
boreal maple
theres no way it snapshots vendetta
balmy condor
yeah idk how it works now
I knew it used to be MEGA jank
but thats like, EN in legion
gusty nebula
Guys, is 3x shrouded build for mythic nzoth meme build or actually viable?
balmy condor
my info is ancient
gusty nebula
Because on paper it seems great to me
eager mountain
Is expedient stacking still the most viable option? 😄
shy dust
hazy flame
if you have enough haste its worth it @gusty nebula
gusty nebula
Cheers. I think I should have enough
stray folio
stacking expedient is simming lower then having mix expedient and TA does that make sense?
gusty nebula
Good mythic gear, expedient 2 and expedient 3
balmy condor
yes
gusty nebula
@hazy flame Do you happen to know if it's worth trying with only 2 shrouded?
balmy condor
probably not
gusty nebula
Don't have a third one yet.
hazy flame
@gusty nebula pre CLF garrote rupture vedetta g mutilate r exsang for opener
balmy condor
exp6 and 3ss seems to be the point where most people see a compelling gain to exsang
woeful minnow
I spent like 3 hours yesterday trying to make expedient stacking work but my gear's just too bad, r6 tendies win every time, so it's not for everyone
sturdy mesa
Tendies u gotta rely on getting it to proc tho
balmy condor
^
woeful minnow
casino parsing 
hazy flame
bleed haste build isnt a must
normal TB works fine for most
the DPS increase isnt that huge for many people
balmy condor
at least with IS it sorta procs enough to stack itself reasonably
but tendies can proc once in 5 minutes
and then its just gg
sturdy mesa
I need to get away using the wiggly bois the proc rate is shit for me for some reason 
balmy condor
I've had pulls where I get double TA procs in my opener and pulls where I don't get a TA proc until 3 minutes in
its just rubbish
boreal maple
@hazy flame that opener u typed is huge dps loss btw
hazy flame
ye
real solar
rng sucks
woeful minnow
you can fit 4 globals
hazy flame
you can haste the 4 garrote
fleet anchor
Exsang only snapshots Haste
fleet anchor
Snapshots aren't really a thing, it is just there because it has to be to make Exsang work
boreal maple
i can never fit 4th global in
hazy flame
than you need more haste
fleet anchor
It has to fix the tick rate for setting the new DoT duration
hazy flame
also you need BL on pull
fleet anchor
Otherwise it would just get fubar
boreal maple
yes ofc
hazy flame
if you have galecallers you can try it out yourself with drums
but you need like 50% haste baseline
not sure about the exact number
balmy condor
wait how does haste affect the 4th global fitting
wicked cradle
what does SS mean in the new corruption pin?
balmy condor
shrouded suffocation
lean marten
shrouded suffocation az trait
wicked cradle
ah ok thank you
woeful minnow
guy in #tc-research said it's doable with 7% haste but I haven't tried it
boreal maple
seems really tight 
lean marten
i dont think its possible tbh
lone junco
ive seen some testing with a ton of haste in the past. no one fit a 4th global in subterfuge
lean marten
why wouldnt sims use it?
lone junco
every time, they posted a log, it didnt actually do that
woeful minnow
it's 100% possible with lust and a lot of haste, I dunno about the 7% haste thing though lol
woeful minnow
@tropic jackal sorry the sim took forever with enchants, best I could do in a couple minutes without cannibalizing your outlaw gear or purifying random pieces https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wtPncDxxmrWraUT7GK9RkT
you could get more but idk what pieces you're willing to purify so I didn't bother
(except the masterful gloves because screw that)
lone junco
yeah. you would never do this pre CLF garrote rupture vedetta g mutilate r exsang for opener
that vendetta at 3 doesnt do shit.
grg is there for a reason
because the grgv does the same thing but doesnt butcher the garrote
woeful minnow
you get an extra global of hasted garrote
how much of a gain that is is the question, the nerds would have to run the sims, but there's a difference
lean marten
GCD is minimum of .75 isn't it
lone junco
before exang, they tick every 2 seconds. right. and once you cut it in half it is 12 sec. and vendetta is 20s
anyway. swapping the opener around like that has always been absolutely negligeable over the span of a 5 minute fight.
you do you, but if you bust that subterfuge, enjoy your green parse.
grg 18 r 23
grvg 18 r . 23
yeah. i bet the tick timings wont even register. maybe it does. but gl with that
modern bear
@woeful minnow yoo dude
all i did
was buy one expedient for u
literally all i did
woeful minnow
that's dslice
woeful minnow
and that's not my sim lol
lone junco
0.4s in exang.
modern bear
that wasnt supposed to happen lol
tropic jackal
@jnas thank you so much! I really appreciate the help
woeful minnow
the stuff like TD is kinda useless in ST so like I said you could get more out of purifying, play around with it
prime void
Noob and exsg
tropic jackal
I'll play around with it. I did buy 2 expedients. No idea if that was better than getting the t3 tendies
lone junco
yeeee buddy
prime void
Name a more iconic duo
red prism
i like tendies
woeful minnow
can't forget to rune if you macro it to your mutilate
lone junco
RIP bota
prime void
LOL
nimble mesa
Do you guys macro plumage with vendetta? 🤔
lone junco
i have /use 13 or whatever on my vendetta
and always put my /use in the top trinket slot. but thats up to you
the troll berzerk into exang is a nice touch
prime void
prime void
lone junco
that one day of pk opener.
prime void
Some broken ass logs 😂
prime void
I got so little of everything done in 2017
kind vault
T3 twilight dev good for general aoe damage? Or are other corrupts more with it
prime void
10/10 😂
prime void
So many memes lmao
haughty flame
was just about to go to bed depressed because i have had nothing in the past 2 weeks
but then rngesus blessed me
worldly sandal
socketed forged coral? n1
gritty dust
I search a person who speack french for help me to understand the spe? Is there anyone?? quelqu'un qui parle français pour me conseiller???
lone junco
that makes way more sense
quasi pewter
i wouldnt do that with normal runes lol
lone junco
btw. nice log. I like the small invesetment into Stars, paid off
like just in case, but the rest to mongo haste, instead of backing off to crit gems.
quasi pewter
yea
lone junco
casual 86k crit ticks, when normal non crit is 4k
love to see it.
bote is so good for this.
especially when you can roar first
heavy birch
mythic shad?
void pecan
Noob breaking out the legion exang rogue?!
wet zealot
might be a supid question but would it matter if i put my Expedient on a dagger or just a piece of gear
young pebble
Is Expedient actually worth buying? Last sims I saw it was pretty far behind most others.
I'm wondering if it's just best to save up for infinite stars
royal lantern
not sure if troll or serious
but if serious
dont save for stars
stars is simbait af
royal lantern
expedient is pretty much the best corruptiuon avaible
royal lantern
dont look at top logs and think" whoa stars is the best corruption"
royal lantern
those are REALLY lucky pulls where they proced it on the boss all the time AND proced it allot
the only pure st fight in this tier where it can only proc on 1 target is......shadar?
young pebble
Expedient's effectiveness is a constant 12% at R3 regardless of the item's ilvl it's on, right?
quasi pewter
yes
but if you buy from vendor you should propably put it on a piece that you are not going to replace easily
lone junco
I also plan to stack up on some enchants for when the vendor rolls around
ineffable truth for me. but if expedient is available, grab it
lone junco
and you dont need to pray for crits on your MA vanish window.
royal lantern
MA vanish into 0 crits was pure fun man 🙂
lone junco
i like the exang opener, cause if something happens and you need to run out, step back and vanish gg and you are back in business.
theres the magic. short and sweet
opal urchin
@quasi pewter how much higher does ss exsang build sim for you?
tame sigil
Do we have a guide for Exang build? :v
glossy nova
Any insight as to what point ill want to drop tendies from the black empire daggers for expedient?
lone junco
do that opener, and dont clip the last tick
tame sigil
I take that as a no? Literally never ran exang since starting a rogue in WoD
lone junco
my guide is a bit out of date
gritty dust
Nobody who speak french can try to help me ?
arctic walrus
@distant lava bread man
lone junco
its good.
grg
then vendetta trinkets Mut to extend rupture. then his racial then exang to rip. then bote for the crit bonus.
static glacier
multiple expedient are additive, right?
lone junco
then as exang is dropping vanish into gg
turbid osprey
was tryna work out what trinket that was
near willow
tame sigil
What % haste do you think Exang starts to pull ahead of Poison Blade/DD build?
lone junco
@quasi pewter do you have a env vanish macro? the last time i did that was for some sub shit in legion
maybe it was for shoulders actually
turbid osprey
Tbh, i spend so much time looking at this exsang business
I don’t even have access to 3 SS yet lmao
lone junco
got it on my moonkin twice in a row
450 and 480
and actually got hpal shoulder bis twice.
rogue was left in the dust
quasi pewter
i used to have vanish env macro in legion ye
think because of nightstalker actually
used to be vanish rupture
but at some point vanish env became better
lone junco
that mad haste just gets really tight
upper elm
I've got 2ss and 20k residuum if I wanna buy goraks
icy osprey
could anyone help me with my gear? im currently running twisted appendages 6 which sims for about 82k: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qewV5xp8txs9jSqLYjn4gR but I wanted to try out and see how well expedients would do so I grabbed haste on every slot but it sims worse than my previous gear, am i overlooking something or are these normal results? stats might be scuffed a bit bcs I tried to fill every slot with haste: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rw3YFpywda7XtbQ8fJVYr4
distant lava
what's up ?
royal lantern
those sims are with 0 corruption for some reason?
icy osprey
no, 1st sim is with 6 twisted, 2nd one is with a gear compare set with 6x expedient 3
static glacier
btw how comes force multiplier sims lower than navigations?
young portal
@static glacier mainstat tends to fall off with scaling
same probs applies to your gems too
lone junco
that is 3 %
vapid scarab
@icy osprey you're still using TB in the expedient sim
royal lantern
that doesnt matter
boreal maple
@icy osprey theres also 13 corruption difference
vapid scarab
without a single SS
royal lantern
tb or exsang is a REALLY small difference
static glacier
ngl, my eyes always skimmed over the mainstat proc, always assumed it was a rune of reorigination themed secondary proc#
boreal maple
corruption number matters alot
u gonna see a difference if u suddenly 10 corruption below the other sim
lone junco
@icy osprey you have vision minor. did you try iris for the haste?
and also. 5min sims are probably a good chance to get tendys out.
icy osprey
are or arent
lone junco
longer fights will result in a > number of tendy procs. shorter fights can lean on the raw haste.
icy osprey
and yeah I understand the corruption difference, but I cant add another expedient bcs id run 60+
icy osprey
ah
thought I changed the ilvl
eitherway
I thought it would outsim my current gear
lone junco
is vision minor really better timing than say Iris minor
icy osprey
but its normal for it to be around the same as tendies?
fleet whale
so with all these expedient pieces, with vita assassin could become pretty fast-paced?
icy osprey
because farming all those echoes for 6 pieces seems to be a meh tradeoff if it sims slightly lower
last crown
anyone know why raidbots seems to only be able to add one expedient in top gear at a time?
royal lantern
@fleet whale tbf,sin is almost gcd locked for quite some time now
the thing is just
you still wanna safe energy for tb, cus thats just how tb works
fleet whale
yeah, i've noticed that for a while now
rancid bobcat
definitely not gcd locked with a non expedient build
fleet whale
it's gonna feel bad in SL launch though
fleet whale
i'm at 47 apm and that's with no expedient but with vita
quartz ember
with exsang do i refresh rupture before using it or hold it until i need to refresh rupture?
dawn rock
go for 3 or 4 exp r3s?
fleet whale
i'm about to get an expedient 3 though
last crown
@quartz ember almost 100% sure you dont ever want to hold CDs if you can manage, but not positive if you would refresh max duration (memory says yes)
fleet whale
and doesn't haste procs benefit from expedient?
quartz ember
@last crown ok thank you!
royal lantern
heroism? more haste when used
fleet anchor
Assassination is still really slow without a Haste build. I've got a hybrid Haste/Crit setup and still have over 25% downtime
But it does go away if you stack Expedient for sure
static glacier
do people actually mind having downtime?
modern bear
Ye
royal lantern
many people do
modern bear
It is boring
fleet anchor
I don't really care personally no.. I mean even with Expedient you are mostly just mindlessly filling with Mutilate that does no damage
modern bear
Waiting for energy
strange python
its so relaxing having downtime tho
royal lantern
i like assassination because it has "good" downtimes
strange python
you know you did everything right and can now rest
fleet anchor
That's part of what makes DD + Expedient work because you end up using so many Mutilates
static glacier
outside of that, having more limited resources makes your choices more meaningful
royal lantern
then mutilate
fleet whale
Assassination now is the fastest it's ever been
fleet anchor
The people who run SS+Haste are still having to cast a lot of Mutilates but sadly they don't do much damage 😦
fleet whale
even if you run DD
royal lantern
i mean
strange python
its really annoying to be energy capped that much
royal lantern
i prefer the slower assassination because your skills feel more impactfull that way
static glacier
like I prefer it now to what it would be if we were hard gcd capped
fleet anchor
I don't really like playing GCD-capped spec with a 1s GCD
royal lantern
stuff like outlaw/dh/fury...you are just spamming your fillers, wich is not really more engaging
static glacier
since it is possible to mess up, there is room for optimising pooling / TB and it does show
royal lantern
but thats pure personal preference
dawn rock
so ill for 4 exp 3
fleet anchor
Energy classes are supposed to have some degree of downtime
fleet anchor
That's why they have a 1s GCD
lone junco
@static glacier having downtime is what makes sin so good for me during progression. run out run in dont miss a beat.
static glacier
too many specs have ended up just being hit 2-3 buttons on cd, spam filler every other gcd
fury / havoc come to mind as prime examples
lone junco
when you can open, run out come back and not have capped e yet, and you can hammer away
modern bear
With galecallers
fleet anchor
WoW has really terrible latency to play too quickly imo
lone junco
i hit 195% haste on moonkin the other day. and it was sad.
modern bear
Yeah the latency is shit
lone junco
the cast times were so fast
fleet anchor
The aura lag and the way instants are processed round-trip without client prediction makes really short GCDs feel kinda bad tbh
static glacier
idk how feral plays now, but during EN in legion (7.0) it was a bit too resource starved
fleet whale
i'm just nervous for the severe slow down were all gonna feel in SL
modern bear
On outlaw the game doesnt fucking register properly
fleet whale
at least at the start
static glacier
it was impossible to maintain dot / SR uptime
lone junco
I played rogue in classic for a few weeks.
static glacier
even sims had to plan SR downtime, that's too little resources imo
lone junco
its not going to be that bad
static glacier
sin is in a healthy middle ground
fleet anchor
Outlaw in like HVs with the speed up is actually pretty terrible lol
In terms of how it feels to press buttons
lone junco
1 1 1 5
fleet anchor
Because the latency is so fubar
lone junco
yeah, i miss 26 apm
fleet anchor
But at least Assassination if you drop some Mutilates it's kinda whatever
static glacier
outlaw is cool, I just wish individual abilities felt more impactful
lone junco
outlaw is something, thats for sure.
static glacier
atm mainly BTE / pistol shot do damage, rest of it is tiny
I do like the playstyle, pray they rework the mastery
eager delta
new bte looks super good in that regard, actually super interested to play new outlaw tbh
modern bear
It feels fucking sluggish on bosses
In an aoe build
Where outlaw feels fast all dungeon
Assa aoe is fun as fuck
lone junco
imagine rolling 5 times during lust, cause you didnt get TB
modern bear
With dotting everyone ip
eager delta
still assa and sub all the way, but shadowlands outlaw will feel alot more rogue like thats for sure
fleet anchor
Assassination definitely has a feast or famine thing going on
Until you get high Haste
Goes from being slow af to GCD locked at 3 targets
static glacier
Sub is arguably one of the coolest specs to play ingame, always been plagued by balancing issues sadly
lone junco
ew
modern bear
Bleh
lone junco
sub was legit cool with Shoulder dfa
static glacier
end of legion sub was fun for sure
strange python
dfa was fun
eager delta
yeah if the tuning was there with sub rn id be all over it, maybe next xpac hm
lone junco
zul stacking cursed sub i think
eager delta
its defs one of those things where you either love it or hate it i think
no inbetween
lone junco
7 rogues on one boss.
lone junco
@fleet anchor did you read my thoughts on that Racing pulse. vs expedient
fleet anchor
Zul just made it suck in M+ too lol
royal lantern
sub was a broken spec in legion allready and got saved by DfA WICH WAS NOT a intended playstyle by blizzard, it was pure luck
static glacier
here's a thing, why has outlaw / combat had their mastery for so long, I don't see how it fits into the spec, since combat potency's energy gain could be baked into something else
royal lantern
bfa made it even worse, remove of DfA more or less killed the spec, zul was a fight it could abuse, blizz punished it by "removing" the spec until rework
lone junco
do you think the racing pulse just procs after the inital vendetta energy return, and helps carry some damage later in the open. instead of just capping harder at the open?
eager delta
i mean all they have to do to fix combats mastery is literally just make it so mastery increases the chance to proc your offhand wep for energy, not increase the dmg of it
static glacier
btw, does it actually matter which wep gets deadly / quick Nav?
fleet anchor
Maybe. Hard to say. But personally when I was looking at Corruption last night, I never ran into a point where Racing Pulse/Void Ritual were better than adding more Expedient, but they were both pretty close and a little below.
fleet anchor
So it seems like Expedient stacking is likely still better until you fully budget max
lone junco
seeing all that E cap at the open is interesting.
eager delta
your mainhand wep should have your more prefered stat
lone junco
@eager delta high ilvl in main hand. thats all
royal lantern
just put your 2 best stats on the weapons as enchants, thats it, doesnt matter wich one has quick/deadly/whatever
modern bear
Lets say u have EXACTLY the same items, but ur total ilvl is 6 highee
Would it matter even???
Like same traits everything
fleet anchor
My brain is melted from running 7 HVs in a row
eager delta
should make an ama
fleet anchor
I can almost afford 2 Expedient III items now...
modern bear
Rn my chest head should ers are all 480
fleet anchor
Maybe will have time to get a 3rd.. I dunno
hazy flame
maybe a dumb question why is the pvp trinket a scam? hence plumage superior
eager delta
probs because its just easier to get
modern bear
Rogue using azhara >>> pvp trinket..
eager delta
pre sure people were using plumage for ss/exsang builds now
hazy flame
yeah exactly
I have both and they both sim pretty much the same
with TB tho
didnt try it with Exang still missing expedience because RNGesus doesnt love m
eager delta
imo, if you play vision minor = razor coral, if you play c/s minor then = plumage
fleet whale
I really wanna try to get another Expedient three, so then i can cleanse my IS 2
and put on my belt with racing pulse 3
eager delta
well, c/s or iris minor
fleet whale
cause screw IS
hazy flame
interesting thanks
leaden garden
Expedient is the best asa corruption?
hazy flame
yes
eager delta
seems to be yeah
leaden garden
Thx
rose sapphire
Guys stack expedient with TB build aswell or just for exg?
modern bear
Just for rogue
royal lantern
difference bettwen TB and Exsang build with expedient stack is almost non exsistant
modern bear
Does haste make rupture duration shorter
gray abyss
Ive simmed my character for both assassination and outlaw, my gear is better for outlaw but aoe still seems much higher, when i check raider.io mythic+ charts outlaw got like 1k more score aswell, i like assassination alot tho, do i miss out on much by going assasssination?
modern bear
Or gives it more ticks
In the duration whic is set??
Mwuah, i did the same thing rich
modern bear
If u do ur traits properly
U will see dps through an overall dungeon not far away from ur outlaw spec
balmy condor
so instead of ticks every 2 seconds for rupture, you get ticks every X seconds where its reduced by haste
royal lantern
@gray abyss sin vs outlaw in m+ is a difficult thing tbh
gray abyss
only got 2 ss atm :S hard to get azerite pieces
royal lantern
sin is 100% viable and good for m+
mossy valve
Ss is so dumb dude
modern bear
But 3 echoing?
gray abyss
no echoing :S
royal lantern
the thing is just 1:many m+ only peeps play outlaw only because,well, outlaw is slightly better
and outlaw has stuff like vanish as a utility/deffensive cd, and gouge
mossy valve
The 475 pieces from final two bosses suck