so haste set will be > nzoth ring
#assassination
tropic ocean
minor rover
^^^
normal olive
So can we corrupt pieces that we cleanse right now?
shrewd night
If you got them today, yes. Yesterday for US.
rancid bobcat
Nice neck level nerd
turbid osprey
@scarlet sequoia thats what, goraks, raden helm and?
scarlet sequoia
carapace
normal olive
if we clease items that we got before reset it does not work?
shrewd night
@normal olive Not yet
normal olive
oh okay damn guess i gotta wait then
scarlet sequoia
yes u can
if u cleanse an item now it works, if u cleansed it before the reset then no
dusty wigeon
aslong as it hasnt been cleansed yet you can do it
normal olive
That's what i meant great thanks!
shrewd night
Oh, right. Yes, thats a major difference 
scarlet sequoia
and before any1 asks, yes u can cleanse and corrupt the carapace dagger too
so u dont have to run TA
dusty wigeon
not running with the boys 
grizzled mist
do we still want the carapace daggers? or just any haste daggers with expedient 3?
strange python
yo so how do I buy a 475 piece, I want to make sure I pick the best possible slot option
dusty wigeon
you cant buy gear iirc
dusty wigeon
if i remember correctly
dusty wigeon
ah
strange python
ya
dusty wigeon
droptimise sim it
dusty wigeon
yeah
strange python
how do you droptamize tho
grizzled mist
a yes would have sufficed.
shrewd night
median marsh
What does M+ EB setup means in pins? what's EB?
shrewd night
echoing blades
dusty wigeon
echoing blades
median marsh
right
pale knot
anyone know how much echoes you get from raid per boss?
scarlet sequoia
think its 150 pr boss on mythic
might be same for all difficulties
might be less than 150
pale knot
aight cheers
scarlet sequoia
ah nvm
Raid Boss (1/wk): 75 - 100 - 125 (assuming normal, hc, m - aka, M full is 1,500)
this is it
glad compass
how does exanguinate work, when is it safe to refresh the garrote and rupture?
scarlet sequoia
if u used exsang then after your bleeds run out
glad compass
like run completely out?
scarlet sequoia
completely
glad compass
or 1-2 sec left on em
how much on garrote and rupture left is it safe to press exanguinate
is there a cut off in terms of how much of the bleeds in time need to be left to actually exanguinate
scarlet sequoia
25 sec or more left on rupture
garrote is whatever, obv try to refresh before exsang tho
orchid cloud
are we still using blood of the enemy as major ?
warm vessel
so for sin pretty much stack haste and expedient ? what about TA ?
scarlet sequoia
TA is garbage
last ingot
guys should I cleanse my TD2 corruption for an expedient 3 for m+?
toxic timber
its luck
scarlet sequoia
rng
shrewd night
bruh
warm vessel
oh
more spawns = more dmg but its rng i assume ?
great thing i didnt just blind buy it from vendor 😄
tnx lads
last ingot
guys should I cleanse my TD2 corruption for an expedient 3 for m+?
dusk onyx
why would you do that
turbid osprey
we're all talking about expedient / exsang
but is the old build completely dead?
tryna work out if i need to throw all my old gear goals out the window and start hard chasing haste stuff
scarlet sequoia
can u kill every mythic boss
turbid osprey
progressing ilgy atm
scarlet sequoia
ss exsang build isnt mega until u get carapace chest
the mechagon chest with clockwork heart is good alternative tho
scarlet sequoia
i wouldnt worry too much about it yet then
turbid osprey
running vex chest (480) nzoth shoulders (475) and slithering loa (480) rn
scarlet sequoia
ye standard build is better then
turbid osprey
just thinking in terms of future though, presumably not worth dropping echoes on severes, rather just get expedients and hold on to them?
boreal maple
cant u still get expdients for old build or?
turbid osprey
i do keys as outlaw and have good enough in that set now tbh
boreal maple
isnt it still almost the best
turbid osprey
pre GW nerf i guess so
those sims have TB on so i guess exped is still really good
upper jasper
What % of haste are people aiming for now then? Or are we just cramming it all in?
Have 9 slots to fill
boreal maple
all 9 slots
upper jasper
Just ram it down my throat? 'ite sick
shrewd night
Wait, nine slots?
scarlet sequoia
2 daggers
upper jasper
Yeah, 9 sockets
shrewd night
Oh yeah, shit. Didnt count weapons lmao
boreal maple
u mean sockets or corruptions?
scarlet sequoia
idk if u are gonna want full out 8 expedient and 1 void ritual, might be like 6 expedients 2 severe
have to wait and see
upper jasper
Ahh nah sorry, I meant like.. % of haste outside of essences and enchants?
Should I replace all 9 crit gems with haste gems for example?
scarlet sequoia
ye
wide swallow
fbm i had 360 echoes before today because i finished my last essence right after the echoes came out
turbid osprey
ok
wide swallow
meanwhile people who just left one unfinished on mains have like 30k
turbid osprey
feelin over here
lone charm
Any idea how much you can farm a week?
turbid osprey
same
lone charm
2.1k after reset i got
brisk forge
would u guys rather go r2 strike then 9%vers corr? i guess first option in m+ that is
scarlet sequoia
depends what content u wanna do
scarlet sequoia
im farming 30-35k before saturday
turbid osprey
comes from m+ and arena
patent topaz
I have 16 vision runs saved up so I can do like 20 this week
turbid osprey
technically infinite
scarlet sequoia
thats in 3 days
lone charm
My main was locked to 0 Echo a week :/
scarlet sequoia
same
arctic walrus
Spamming 15s at a key per 20 min you can get 16k in 24h
civic hinge
How viable would expedient stacking be in m+? Currently running honed + racing + 2x gw
lone charm
So just Spam Mythic + as high as you can and you sure will be able to get over 15k a week?
and i got 10 visions stacked
arctic walrus
Visions are still the most value
lone charm
Full clears?
arctic walrus
Yeah you don’t need masks full clear is 750
lone charm
yeah i am not that far into this only come back 2 weeks ago 🙂
scarlet sequoia
are u tired vel
arctic walrus
Yes
lone charm
I only need 15k so i can 3 - 12% haste xD
arctic walrus
Sleep and wake up in 3 hours for work
lone charm
If you haven't got the masks can someone else put them on for you?
civic hinge
Ye
arctic walrus
How are you gonna get the other 15k
scarlet sequoia
arena
strange python
Anyone wanna do a +10 kr?
arctic walrus
Not the place for this stuff
lone charm
How many haste Corruptions u gonna run people
glacial flare
can you set a cap on the dmg of any particular type ? ex: my sims typically give me ~4.5 mil on IS but in practical its more like 2-3mil. I'd like to cap it to have a more realistic sim. Is it possible ?
minor garden
anybody has a guide on the haste-corruption SS assa build?
arctic walrus
@scarlet sequoia gl bro Easy 1k from raid too
scarlet sequoia
ye gonna be fun:)
deft obsidian
@scarlet sequoia giving you're the expedient king, what are you aiming for?
scarlet sequoia
expedients
strange python
hey guys! generally, what should i be gemming for? i know our main 2ndary stat is haste but im seeing alot of sass rogue gem crit! if thats the move i just want to know why 😎
patent topaz
sim
lone charm
Probs because their haste is already high enough and their losing crit
strange python
thats fair
minor garden
im asking again: anybody has a guide on the haste-corruption SS assa build?
scarlet sequoia
theres no guide no
glacial steppe
how do i sim races that are not spelled in one word? raidbots always gives me an error with those races (SimC input is invalid, details above)
minor garden
racing pulse is good?
scarlet sequoia
yes
minor garden
cool
shy dust
Raz how many tiers of expedient will you be at soon
minor garden
i should use condensed lifeforce too?
thin holly
@glacial steppe https://pastebin.com/wWbxFY9A
lone charm
Someone show me sim with Three 12% haste and 1 gushing
scarlet sequoia
if i manage to farm what i want this week ill be at t24 i think @shy dust
shy dust
How many echos you gotta farm?
scarlet sequoia
30k ish
shy dust
And you have to farm it all before the invasion changes im pretty sure so Friday NA
scarlet sequoia
ye i have till saturday
shy dust
That’s light work for you
rapid flame
so is the plan to go full haste & ss or what are you lads planning to?
shy dust
Hope you got vision currency saved up
scarlet sequoia
ye i had 160k
lone charm
So how many exp u gonna run?
minor garden
i think u can at most have exp3 x 7 now
scarlet sequoia
ya
crimson palm
we have a warr in guild who had 35k echoes coming in this week
crimson palm
bought 7 straight out 🙂
rose sapphire
is the R3 exp only good for one build or is that the go overall for assa?
scarlet sequoia
overall good
verbal sparrow
how much haste you go for guys ? (even those who have 9 times expedient)
shy dust
You use what sims best
Get some expedient and whatever gems/enchant combination is best
lone charm
so after saturday will these Corruption items change?
minor garden
so can somebody explain why haste is so particularly good with this build?
rapid flame
make bleed more hasty, bleed more hasty = more bleed, more bleed = more dmg
tropic ocean
because bleeds scale with haste
and exsang snapshots any haste that before usage for full duration
young portal
@lone charm they change with every minor assault swap
lone charm
Oh shit
minor garden
yea but u can only apply SS once every 2 min?
agile phoenix
how do i sim the vendor of corruption
lone charm
so these will reset when?
young portal
Friday NA, Saturday EU
tropic ocean
@minor garden doesn't matter?
shy axle
how would you use exang without SS pieces? just vanish GAr - X - Gar for maximum duration and fire it ?(combination with vendetta/trinkets etc aside)
icy osprey
is it normal to have haste sim really low eventho my haste is super low for assa? everything sims higher than haste
verbal sparrow
For me it always sims crit
tropic ocean
@icy osprey yes
lone charm
How much echo 5mask vision?
icy osprey
does that mean I should go for crit, or just ignore sims and go for haste?
tropic ocean
do what your sim says
young portal
@icy osprey always follow the sim
verbal sparrow
like anything with crit is like caressing those Sim titties and it confuses me as hell
tropic ocean
why would you sim if you just do whatever you like anyway
tropic linden
750 echoes @ sizzle
tropic ocean
do you have the same gear as all the top rogues?
icy osprey
does haste only become better when expedients come in play?
young portal
Thats because their gear is much better and allows them to do so probs
shy axle
"You don't need SS to play with Exsanguinate. It's good with DD as well and DD might sim better depending on the ilevel and stats of the piece. "
from the pins
tropic ocean
yea so sim it
and if it doesn't sim better dont use it
@agile phoenix what vendor u can just add any corruption in gear compare as you like
agile phoenix
someoen said they added the vendor in to gear compare idk
icy osprey
should I stockup on some expedients from the shop for future gear, eventho I need crit right now?
shy axle
it is not about using it or not, it is about how to use it if - just to know it
rapid flame
yes @icy osprey
tropic ocean
No Shrouded Suffocation powers for Exsanguinate
Garrote
Mutilate
Rupture
Vendetta
Mutilate until maximum combo points
Rupture
Vanish
Garrote
Exsanguinate
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
agile phoenix
but gear compare how would i know which piece to try the corruption on in what slot etc seems like so much work idk
rapid flame
then dont @agile phoenix
civic hinge
If i only do high m+ is crit/mastery still the way to go with corruption vendor?
civic hinge
3xSS 1xEB 1xTTK 1xNP
lone charm
think it's possible to get from 0-10k Echo without visions by saturday?
just mythic spamming?
tropic ocean
@civic hinge most likely crit/mastery
rapid flame
why not do visions?
tropic ocean
vers stacking is good with lots of eb
lone charm
Well you might not have visions stacked
I just come back so my cape is rank 10 lol
I do have visions stacked i got 8 but i don't have masks
dusk onyx
you can only get corruptions on items you purged right?
minor garden
wut?
verbal sparrow
no
on every item (except those you purged before this ID, dunno if it's intentional or bug)
verbal sparrow
Does Simcraft actually Sim "how would that fight look" or is it just about preset dps that shows it's better than something else ? (to see: Bloodmallet, shows just dps and compares) i know how dumb it might sound but i'm just curious
deft obsidian
Sims still have TA being better but they never fucking proc
vagrant hollow
so basically on no items that is 475 then >(
@minor garden mythic raiding?
deft obsidian
Dropping 70 corruption worth and going expedient ham
crimson rampart
I simmed exp and it simmed like shit for me 😦
i tried 4 piece TA vs 7 Exp and TA simmed higher
verbal sparrow
Yea that's what I'm quite afraid of, everyone is saying Exp is the best one right now but also that I'm supposted to follow only my simcraft
deft obsidian
Generally will but what is the formula of TA? does anyone know, assuming x amount of procs per min in an encounter. Which is never the case 😛
rocky ruin
I think its like exp is what you get instant and TA is what if it proc
dark crag
Ta sims higher but the high and low are also higher/lower
The sim number is an average
crimson rampart
x7 exp only increased my dps by 600 -.- and x4 TA increased it by 3k
I mean i'm willing to wait on procs if that's the case
hot spade
it's still worth to have at least 1 GW, or it's going to be nerfed so bad we don't want it anymore?
agile spire
Does raidbots sim the nerfed gw or still the old one
verbal sparrow
Like I know it's 35% nerf, so approx 10k dmg per proc but still i think it's quite a lot
not saying it's a bis, but definietly a strong
indigo elk
it is still strong if you have the budget to squeeze in 1 GW i think its still worth probs
hot spade
yep, i think it's not worth stacking it anymore but maybe 1 GW will still be good enough to use
verbal sparrow
Not like I had more than one 
hot spade
well i just looted a dagger from the weekly chest with GW, that's why i was asking 
verbal sparrow
I would keep it. it's not next ID after all
high nacelle
so my fully essenced rogue with 0 echoes before today is a major F right? nothing i can do
hot spade
ty for the answers, i'll sim it during this day when i'll start building expedients
boreal maple
GW prob gonna be better or equal at 485 items
not considering the 5 corruption difference
onyx hedge
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4FM5fGabr6hp74YjjE4WQz plumage is simming worse?
boreal maple
plumage is very good on shorter fights
onyx hedge
tis abit weird
boreal maple
coral sims more for most ppl
onyx hedge
yeah
boreal maple
but dosnt mean i use it
verbal sparrow
(41 corruption atm) Should I corrupt a non corrupted item or purify Versa 9% item but I'm not going to switch that item
light pebble
anyone got a link to the new build?
coarse solar
For those questioning, Exp and TA seem pretty close, with TA edging ahead on average, but only on single target. Exp is a better all-round corruption
boreal maple
pretty sure on avg expdient wins
warm vessel
#unnerfgushingwound 😄
cerulean pier
How are you guys simming with all r3 expedient? I cant get mine to put it on everything
coarse solar
In DPS per corruption GW is still strong. On ST it’s third behind r3 IS (145) and r3 Expedient (137), and for AoE it’s fifth behind Severe, TD, Expedient and Void Ritual + allies
wispy plaza
@coarse solar is that pre or after nerf tho ?
coarse solar
It’s 108 DPS per corruption ST and 97 DpC for aoe
This is after nerf
It was 166 ST and 149 for AoE pre-nerf
verbal sparrow
Is Heart of Darkness better than NP In SS build ?
scarlet sequoia
yes
hot spade
@coarse solar ty for the in depth explanation
light pebble
what are the best azerite traits we want now with the new build?
cobalt pelican
raden helm ilg/goraks shoulders and carapace chest
limber merlin
Which rings are Good for us?
The Junkyard set?
169 Haste and 3 attacks from behind
shy dust
Haste and attack from behind are very strong
halcyon grotto
You are mixing up two different rings
It’s just while standing behind
The other ring is “cast 3 diff spells”
light pebble
@cobalt pelican 3x shrouded, 2x heart and 1x BI?
cobalt pelican
something like that yes
halcyon grotto
Yep
halcyon grotto
You’ll get the most value in st
halcyon grotto
All dependent on gear. I’m no rogue expert. I’m sure they will all tell you to sim and see what shows the highest value. I personally think you would see more value from severe in m+
tropic ocean
expedient not really good for mt
for m+ probably 12% crit and strikethrough will be the go to
nova hamlet
!trinkets
cerulean pier
Is ashvane coral still any good for us then?
wet zealot
how many expedient pieces do i need to change to the new build ?
main warren
coral is still good for everyone
cerulean pier
Expedient on everything man xD
coarse solar
It's not 'how many expedient pieces', it's 'how much haste do you have'
but I don't have a hard number for you
just saying it's not reliant on number of expedient pieces
wet zealot
now that you say, makes sense 😄
light pebble
how much haste are we aiming to reach for the new exsang build?
shrewd night
slow helm
how does stacking haste/mastery and exsanguinate feel? anything worth trying? 🙂
sly fern
how much haste are we aiming to reach for the new exsang build?
@light pebble I think about 2.5k - 3k haste. In that case you will have enough energy regen without Vigor and you can pick deeper strategem + exsang
loud brook
At 2k base haste, two expedient 2 and 1 rank 3 has given me a 2k dps increase on single target
I mean that the rank 3 corruption has given 2k dps on top of everything else
frigid kestrel
I have a silly stupid question that i am embarrassed to ask. ....... Does Expedient work on top of the haste you get from Hero/Lust?
scarlet sequoia
yes
crimson palm
ye fuck blizzard for giving u free gear
verbal sparrow
How much % haste will you have after, hero, enchants procs etc.. ?
sick scarab
it is not free gear
plain thistle
@verbal sparrow I got to 140-150% with all procs last night
but I dont have rank 12 expedient, just 9 😂
minor thicket
Is the expedient only necessary if you’re playing the exsan build?
plain thistle
no, its good for TB build too
minor thicket
I recently switch to Subterfuge with 1 SS trait so wanted to be sure
plain thistle
you dont need SS to play subterfuge, have you already simmed subt without SS?
minor thicket
Yea I’ve only included the one SS trait because were on raden for prog
Otherwise I’d use DD traits
crimson palm
What's the bonus id for expedient III?
strange python
6476 i think @crimson palm
you can see them all here https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/bfa-dev/SpellDataDump/bonus_ids.txt
boreal maple
does it ahve 90% uptime in raids?
plain thistle
damn, that medallion is juicy
light pebble
stat prio is haste > crit atm?
pulsar dirge
anyone getting TA instead of exp ?
loud brook
My simmed prio is haste, crit, mast, vers but they're all within .1 of each other
Agi is like 2.7 while haste is like 9.45
minor thicket
If we have never played Exsan where can we learn the rotation for it?
pulsar dirge
I aimed for TA b4 because i only had the dagger from carapace and the other rogue dwarfed me on some pulls
minor thicket
If I wanted to switch still not sure
plain thistle
@minor thicket I would go to warcraflogs, check top logs and go to cast sequence
here for exemple, https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/q9Ap4G1bfLMmVxNJ#fight=10&type=casts&view=timeline&source=16, you can check exactly what he did on a patchwerk fight
west cove
is 3x ss viable option for n'zoth progress?
boreal maple
yes
twin bay
yes²
crimson palm
@scarlet sequoia wild guess but won't 2 more exp pieces sim better than your racing pulse + exp1
with a 475 ring
scarlet sequoia
it will indeed
which is why im farming as much as i can
sadly i logged in with 0 echoes:)
crimson palm
argh 😄
cold spoke
same tbf
crimson palm
i got stomped with meetings today cant even farm
west cove
any predicts about vendor rotation?
crimson palm
should've just called in sick at work
ocean ore
my friend did a probability, it seems that once a month will have the corruption you want
But it is pure RNG
shy axle
is it confirmed to be pure random ones ? Maybe it is a set rotation
ocean ore
not confirmed by blizzard, but blizzard almot work with this since ever haha
so we only can guess
lethal bobcat
with the nerf to gushing is better to just stack expidents right?
ocean ore
@lethal bobcat yeap
lethal bobcat
even for aoe scenarios most likely
cold spoke
font any good for exsang or need plumage
ocean ore
maybe it depends in traits choice and that shit
if u running Eb crit is above haste and mastery
but with that huge stack of exped, prob we dont know for sure yet
hazy shale
What are the BiS corruptions for an Assasination rogue? Tier 3 infinite stars and 12% haste buff?
Or do you run more stat increase corruptions or just the damaging ones like tentacle and dev?
strange python
reading pins is bis
hazy shale
Thank you man
loud brook
I thought the corruptions were tied to the assaults
like how different assaults are up every week
wet ruin
its not the corruptions that are tied to the assaults but the vendor sell cycles
light pebble
anyone else still not able to see the items in the vendor :/
wet ruin
so when a new assault comes you get a different set of corruptions offered that I am not sure if are totally random or on some internal cycle
should be random
loud brook
when i was in warmode
strange python
i really hope its not random
loud brook
i coudnt see the corruptions
inland plover
afaik its 2 r1 ; 2 r2 and 3 r3
loud brook
i turned it off and i was good
light pebble
let me try that ty
fast pine
SS build with exanguinate only sims higher than DD and TA build when you have MM raden helm + MM carapace chest and 7 expedediants. Otherwise is is the same with the DD build being way easier to get.
strange python
uh did you sim that
fast pine
yeah
strange python
can you link it
fast pine
yep, let me organise my links and will post in a few minutes
rigid walrus
is it worth me saving some echoes to put gushing on a 475 socket weapon despite the nerf? ppl saying will still be better than tentys/exp
boreal maple
no reason to save
boreal maple
u never know when GW will come.
u just farm some new indeed
what u can do is hold your echoes til friday adn see what na gets. if ur EU
rigid walrus
yeah
boreal maple
and buy/save be4 saturday
rigid walrus
so i should just put exp on something else in case then
strange python
the corruption thingies dont see to be unique so you could farm 2893769823 exp3 this week and bank them in case
boreal maple
but if u plan to build for raid. u should just go all in expdient
shrewd night
@scarlet sequoia Is the sims using plume correctly?
rigid walrus
yeah this is for raid ideally
light pebble
best trinkets vita + plume now?
loud brook
strange python
boreal maple
plumage is WAY better on short fights and less aids to use
if u ahve 475 pvp trinket it prob pull ahead of coral no matter fight length
shrewd night
Short fights 
In my guild
Comedy gold star
boreal maple
any sub 5min fight plumage sims way higher for me
strange python
i know that feeling 
shrewd night
I mean, they arent bad, but its nothing compared to the blasters in my old guild 
light pebble
since we want >2k haste now, whats the crit number we wanna pair that with?
loud brook
does echoing blade proc main hand weapon enchants or both main hand and offhand
limber lion
My 445 Coral still sims better for me than my 475 Plumage on most fight. Just simmed 3min and 5 min patchwork and cleave add fights. Why does it sim so highly for others?
boreal maple
do u play SS exsang build?
limber lion
I simmed both and the exsang build came out on top, just without plumage though
The second best result is -400 dps with plumage and CLF
limber lion
Hmm, I'll try to sim bis azerites on gear compare and see how it compares
My azerites are terrible, that's for sure.
boreal maple
i mean they not that terrible
SS just scales rly good with ilvl
if u slap a socke tin that plumage
it will be better for u aswell
crystal vault
playing 3x SS Build + blood major and vision minor, is it better to hold vanish for 2nd vendetta to line up with exsanguinate ?
boreal maple
u only play vision minor based on timings on raid bosses
limber lion
https://gyazo.com/fed9d6534389dc884f2f56b84b908d03
Tried with the bis azerite pieces and coral still comes out on top. Ugh. Could it be because I'm running 2x Severe II?
boreal maple
nah cos im rank 4 severe aswell
limber lion
Ah that's odd
boreal maple
yea but thats with old azerites?
boreal maple
😄
limber lion
Actually washed up
That was it! Coral simmed 300dps higher with better azerites
I mean
Plumage*
boreal maple
and on top of that u gotta think like. " do i play coral 100% corret? do i ever fuck it up? do i wanna bother playing coral for lets say mby 200 dps?"
shy axle
i sim 90,6k with my current gear (3x DD, bbi,Np,hod) and r6 TA + 2 gushing. No mather what i do (even slappin the 2 cara myth daggers + chest, 5 expedIII etc) i an`t cross 80k with it. Anything i am overseeing?
limber lion
Alright true. Great, I've been dreading to throw TEP trinkets to the bin. Getting to disenchant Font of Power was the best thing ever, can't wait to do it to Coral as well 😂
light pebble
uhh fellas, im not sure where to put my expedient on. do i just pick my highest ilvl piece with haste/crit on it?
like eg. socketed 475 legs with haste crit
boreal maple
pick a pieces u 99% sur eu wont replace
limber lion
Pick a piece that you most likely will never get an upgrade to
light pebble
how can I tell which piece is bis like that apart from azerite gear?
light pebble
we are only on ilgynoth atm and my mecha rings are only 455
cant for the life of me get 475 or even 465 ones
boreal maple
then those legs is prob good option for u
light pebble
prio haste > crit? or haste >=crit
boreal maple
prio haste and crit yea. hard ot say which is better since it depends on your current gear
light pebble
aight, so same as before pretty much. was just stacking both
sinful marsh
I sim versa mastery highest 
gusty nebula
Quick question: What would you guys sim for best Nzoth mythic idea?
sinful marsh
some but not much
loud brook
If I had to, i'd sime 1 boss hectic add cleave depending on how your group does visions
gusty nebula
Cheers.
loud brook
you can totally cheese psychus damage by running three shrouds and using vanish and garrote on him when he gets like 4 stacks
and just have garrote do like 70k a tick
it's really funny
boreal maple
u should sim ST
loud brook
but idk if it's biss
boreal maple
as nothing else matters on nzoth
gusty nebula
Just pure ST? Okay. Hm.
boreal maple
dont think its an easy fight to sim for
strange python
Should I get expedient even crit is my best stat atm?
gusty nebula
Yeah
loud brook
yeah it sucks. I agree with simming st
toxic cliff
Hi everyone 👋
gusty nebula
I'm still debating sin or outlaw as well on the fight... Sin much better at boss damage obviously, which is...super important.
strange python
Alright 🙂 ty
gusty nebula
But outlaw higher overall damage and....meh
loud brook
with outlaw you can just stay on psychus and your cleave does 500% more damage to the tentacles
boreal maple
unless u have no lock or mages ofc
light pebble
imagine mythic raiding with no mages or locks though 🤔
boreal maple
outlaw just pads on harvesters
royal lantern
@boreal maple saying outlaw is meme on nzoth is 1 of the most stupid takes i read today in this discord
and that says something
outlaw and assassination do 2 different things on nzoth
royal lantern
even WITH locks and mages
royal lantern
if we go that way you can also say " why play something that is not hunter/mage lmao"
boreal maple
what u are tlaking about
there is not a single reason to play outlaw outside of harvester dmg
not one
but pls
enlighten me
with your knowledge
grave pagoda
whats the best traits for m+? 3 SS or is it better to bring one echoing blades ?
lean marten
3xSS 3xEB is regarded as best m+ i think
shrewd night
with outlaw you can just stay on psychus and your cleave does 500% more damage to the tentacles
Thats not how it works, fam.
grave pagoda
but if i allrdy have 3 SS and no EB. and i got the chans to swap put one of the SS to EB woulds that be better?
sour glade
So for sin m+ what kind of corruptions do people like? For raid I'm rocking my cara dagger tendies and a bunch of expedient.
lean marten
EB is god tier in m+ so i think so yea
hoary crown
Best corruption to aim for now that they destroyed gushing wounds?
sour glade
For m+ I have my cara dagger tendies, a severe 3, and i'm trying to figure out what else I want. Maybe masterful or honed mind to amp bleeds more?
tropic ocean
MotehaToday at 3:58 PM
theres a reason a few ppl played it on progress
cos it was infact not better
theres different reasons to play it, though majority played sin
but the reason is not that ur cleave does 500% dmg to tentacles
😄
shrewd night
My fucking brain man.
boreal maple
what?
shrewd night
The cleave does no increased damage.
boreal maple
i didnt say that
fleet anchor
@rancid bobcat Yes Exsang snapshots Haste on the active bleeds.
Exsang is super jank like that.
Because it just reschedules a set tick rate for your bleeds after casting it.
Was probably no other way for them to accomplish it.
tropic ocean
with outlaw you can just stay on psychus and your cleave does 500% more damage to the tentacles
XD
boreal maple
i just dont see any valid reason to play outlaw over ass on nzoth if u have enoguh mages/locks and none can say a valid argument to why. except make fun of me for calling it a meme spec
halcyon falcon
with the gushing wound nerf incoming. is Expedient 3 and deeper strat/exsang the new play for assa? thoughts?
boreal maple
so playing survival hunter is not considered meme if u like the spec?
tropic ocean
why would it
boreal maple
okay man
shrewd night
none can say a valid argument to why
Have you considered that your behaviour is why people wont get involved in a discussion with you?
rigid mango
At this point it doesn't matter
boreal maple
my behaviour?
mellow pier
U guys think severe will get any use with DS/SS? I have 42% crit and its still far above haste for scaling
loud brook
wait really, I figured that my 120k burst on psychus with no cds was because of the damage amp
boreal maple
o get randomly tagged from a guy flaming me for no reason
wet ruin
someone told me there was a change in tentacle tooltip or something suggesting it is now hasted, is that true?
rigid mango
We're far past comp mattering for progression when u tryna optimise these small things
tropic ocean
obviously if you are progressing you will play whatever is best for progress
but in farm play whatever you want
loud brook
shouldnt blade flurry take the damage i do to him and spread it out everywhere else
shrewd night
It doesnt.
loud brook
wtf
mellow pier
I think were going to want a mix of severe/expedient based on what my sim says
tropic ocean
is survival hunter a meme? idk ask thyminde when he shits on all meta dps
tropic ocean
dont see any reason to think so much when you are not pushing for super world ranks
play what you're best at thats it
or what you like or both
loud brook
young vessel
how much do u guys sim on assa single target?
tropic ocean
94k
young vessel
can u show me? feel like i can get some upgrades
boreal maple
yes but why flame me for saying outlaw is a meme pad spec on nzoth? when most good players prob agree
outer lotus
@tropic ocean thyminde is a she
boreal maple
only got mad cos some guy random tagged me out of nowhere
boreal maple
not you
mellow pier
U can literally play anything tho on Nzoth
halcyon falcon
re: mechagon rings...is the behind the target better than 3 diff spells? I'm thinking it might provide more uptime of haste...or not.
tropic ocean
like sub is considered a meme as well yet theres ppl performing to similar level with it than other top raiders on meta specs
mellow pier
My buddy did world 30ish with feral lol
tropic ocean
think its a flaw in logic to care so much about meta or non meta
especially when you are not killing bosses as soon as others where u actually needed firemages to make dps check e.g.
however enough ot
grave pagoda
swapping out one SS for EB booster simmed dps with 2100 😄
boreal maple
yes but only reason outlaw is high on nzoth is aoe padding. same reason its high on hivemind/carapace
boreal maple
ofc add dmg matte ron hivemind
mellow pier
Tbh
boreal maple
but on carapace?
loud brook
speaking of stars being a jebait, is there a way in sims to show the true value of stars in a regular boss fight with occasional adds?
tropic ocean
obviously assa has more potent boss/burst dmg
but its not like outlaw is padding 90% of its dmg
loud brook
or I should say in realistic scenarios
halcyon falcon
TBH, while this is the internet, I think the point of these channels is to help people, not flame
patent topaz
true value of IS is put it in the bin imo
tropic ocean
the difference is small
mellow pier
IS is good on like 2 maybe 3 fights
tropic ocean
especially with all the outgear and farm corruptions now it literally doesnt matter what u play
royal lantern
@boreal maple 1st of all, "aoe padding" is sometimes true, but aoe dmg is aoe dmg, stuff dies faster, stuff NEEDS too die
royal lantern
and 2nd, the GOOD PLAYERS tell you that it doesnt really matter, who the fuck do you want too answer you lol
tropic ocean
besides unless you are trying to spam into psychophages
theres not much aoe pad on nzoth anyway
:^)
boreal maple
it snot really close ausr if u look at statistic outlaw is like bottom ST wise on nzoth
loud brook
wut
tropic ocean
tehres literally outlaws in top 100 st nzoth rogue logs
i just linked it to you
lol
royal lantern
and nzoth is not even a full st fight
tropic ocean
yes so
royal lantern
you ALWAYS have something too cleave
boreal maple
but if theres 500 assa and 5 outlaw its not close
mellow pier
Also it depends in ur guild
boreal maple
when theres more outlaw overall logs then assa
tropic ocean
can't follow that reasoning
young vessel
can u guys show ur sims? want to compare stuff
tropic ocean
but sure
rustic yarrow
Heres where im at @young vessel cant get over that 80k barrier https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dHtwnoC1jQxsdLg4FZuGrw
mellow pier
Both have value
boreal maple
u dont have more assa logs
tropic ocean
the st dps difference between outlaw and assa is not really high
boreal maple
theres 200 more outlaw logs
heavy lark
imagine linking a sim with infinite stars
tropic ocean
assa has more dps than outlaw in short windows and is generally the better spec for boss dmg in nzoth fight
dense blaze
And a ton of other corruptions listed in the sim
tropic ocean
but what you said about aoe pad in outlaw is just not true
as the boss dmg is similar
boreal maple
its not similar
tropic ocean
it is
tropic ocean
yeah just because a few outlaws get in top
tropic ocean
XD
boreal maple
why u xd me?
young vessel
@dense blaze :OOOOOOOOO
boreal maple
that is literally the reason
dense blaze
?
lean marten
there are just way less outlaw players, doesn't mean its a better/worse spec
boreal maple
no there are not
lean marten
same problem with sub
young vessel
nice gear heh
tropic ocean
outlaw avg nzoth boss dps
boreal maple
there is is infact more outlaws on nzoth
tropic ocean
36k
lean marten
oh snap 12 subs
onyx hedge
All the fucking bots lmao
boreal maple
that is a huge difference rofl
tropic ocean
in reality probably more like 2-3k dps differenec
boreal maple
that is not small
boreal maple
ofc i have killed it
tropic ocean
yeah huge difference because all the top assa logs will do 30% tent dmg in every pull
lean marten
if u care so much about it then play assa. ur point is basically invalid becuase of the nature of corruption parses
loud brook
best sin rogues are lining up their bote with their tentacles to get max deeps xD
tropic ocean
even if you look at top ranking raiding assa rogues
they have difference in boss dps on nzoth
boreal maple
u cant say that is bnecause of corruption
tropic ocean
10k
lean marten
between outlaw 5 rolls and corruption procs, top logs are a meme
loud brook
wait, does tentacle benefit from vendetta
boreal maple
cos thats prob same shit with outlaw
heavy lark
why would you even want to go into the rng of tentacles when you can just go expedient and hit the dps checks every time without relying on rng?
boreal maple
the top st outlaws prob have tentackle or smt else proccing hard aswell
shrewd night
Keyword: probably
lean marten
also its probably just cuz TA daggers
dense blaze
Because Blizzard won't let me put expedient on my rings
tropic ocean
r1 boss dmg outlaw rogue is playing gushing +twilight and slapper btw
mellow pier
Hopefully they fix it soon
boreal maple
number 1 outlaw has 8% TD and 8% GW on nzoth
tropic ocean
yeah
mellow pier
Idk if its worth putting expedient on my carapace boots or save for GW
boreal maple
yes but alot of assas get tentackle from dagger
mellow pier
I assume GW in 485 is still gonna be good
boreal maple
which is strogner then what avg outlaw gets st
they get lash of the void from ra-den
which dosnt ahve some insane rng to hit like TA
tropic ocean
it also doesnt do insane dmg on st
🤷
like ta
but maybe you should think a bit more like that
imagine you change rogue from 40k boss dps
to 35k
but he will do >30,40,50k more overall
and that means u can use more cds on boss instead harvesters/or psychus
will it be a gain or a loss
😉
boreal maple
thats what im saying. the overall more dmg dosnt matter
u saked me if i ahve killed it
but have u actual killed it?
and ever thought. ohh hey we need some more dmg on these tentackle spawns
or harvesters
prob not
shrewd copper
Hey guys, sorry to bother! I'm trying to improve my gear and actually i don't know what i need to aim for :
it's my gear, any advice ?
lean marten
ill take a look, try a droptimizer sim too that might help
boreal maple
yea but thats passive cleave.
lean marten
off the bat, you're IS heavy AND using DD so just be aware this build is pure ST
boreal maple
cos they dont combust the actual add
it just spreads from boss
so they do 100% their best st of any of their specs
while u sit there as outlaw doing less then 99% of assa
for no reason if u alrdy have the passive cleave needed
tropic ocean
If
rotund oak
U need more gems bro and some haste,this is patchwreck
boreal maple
yea but whole this started with me saying that outlaw was a meme if u alrdy have mages/locks
strange python
This is the mut channel, why are we even comparing outlaw?
vast forum
outlaw isn't a meme, it's just slightly worse in every aspect except synapse damage
shrewd copper
Yeah, a bot too dependent on IS and i was thinking if i need to switch on expedient and Exsanguinate.
boreal maple
we comparing assa to outlaw?
warm parcel
Nowadays doesnt matter what you do on nozoth
tropic ocean
I doubt anyone will disagree with assa being the superior progress spec
warm parcel
Boss is nerfed to high voids
tropic ocean
but calling outlaw meme is weird
it can be even superior to assa depending on your setup obviously
warm parcel
But when it was actually proge, there was no way OL did even remotely close boss dps
vast forum
boss will become a joke when all the hunters have r20 severe
shrewd night
Didnt you know, outlaw damage is 99% pad
vast forum
just bring 20 hunters
tropic ocean
like imagine if u can send outlaw down and leave another dps up that can cd boss instead due to increased cleave
you already gained boss dps
🤷
tropic ocean
obviously in a perfect world u'd send other classes down
but who has the choice to have whatever class stacked they want
maybe 0.1% of mythic raiders
shrewd copper
I know, i'm guilty to be lazy and don't farm sockets.
boreal maple
im pretyt sure not anyone in top 100 guilds used outlaw besides asian guilds
bleak spoke
my sockets are au naturale from m+ 
strange python
if you dont need a full immunity, outlaw is a way worse havoc
vast forum
exactly
shrewd night
bleak spoke
okay to be fair if you had the choice of grimzyo playing sub on your roster over like 99.999% of rogues you'd pick grimzyo every time
not meme
vast forum
that's... not the point
bleak spoke
sub can own
boreal maple
guess it depends on what u think is considered meme. and me saying meme shouldnt mean that i get flamed for saying that
lean marten
@shrewd copper MA + BotE is going to overcap your crit hard. might be time to swap subt or try xang build. hell u could try VoP build too
bleak spoke
:bluespec:
vast forum
i'd always take perfecto on assa over grimz on sub
boreal maple
cos for me any spec thats not the spec for their class is meme
vast forum
you're comparing best sub to average assa
bleak spoke
can play mikihisa's rotational edit btw
vast forum
ofc best player of any spec will be better than average of another
bleak spoke
where you bote after ma window
like tb van env muti env bote muti env etc
if you get lucky you actually crit every env
or you get every env*
tropic ocean
its just not as black and white
sub was considered meme then someone figured out its insane on boss dps in orgozoa
shrewd night
cos for me any spec thats not the spec for their class is meme
So your perception for what is a meme changes on a boss by boss basis?
tropic ocean
🤷
boreal maple
i mean yea
bleak spoke
@tribal marlin said it showed like a gain on the sims
if you prefer MA/tb builds
exsang is fun though
rotund oak
like,we could all play sub in 3-4 weeks with the targeted corruptions
no one rly knows
bleak spoke
that would be kinda fun
rotund oak
++
shrewd night
Please dont meme about that 
boreal maple
@shrewd night look at it this way. all of progress the only boss where outlaw was better on was hivemind
rotund oak
well sims do and lack of corruption
boreal maple
now ppl do more on carapace/nzoth
rotund oak
its like you can play but never be competitive enough
lean marten
my sub build is 77 corruption of TA
bleak spoke
what he means is as the highest simming setup across the specs aus
tropic ocean
@boreal maple it just comes down to your roster man
perfecto played outlaw in vexiona progress
rotund oak
point is to min-max in way that you can hold your ground dps wise
shrewd night
Biggest memer
tropic ocean
u just play what your raid needs
lean marten
imagine memeing in WF race
tropic ocean
raiding is not a static environment
tropic ocean
yes he did
lean marten
lightshot < shareX
boreal maple
u have no clue mate
u cant look at wowprogress
it takes the spec he logs out in
u see the little spec icon
on their kill vid
lean marten
details bugs too sometimes
bleak spoke
okay that's less likely
boreal maple
yea his bottom fragging as outlaw then
bleak spoke
than wowprogress snapshotting his
boreal maple
xd
shrewd night
I mean, he got you there, aus
rotund oak
ye and the murderer with the bloodstains and the knife on hand wasnt actually tyhe killer
bleak spoke
dungeon gear
rotund oak
its sin
lean marten
losing to boomkins x.x
warm parcel
But if you looked at boss dps
shrewd night
Imagine if all those people didnt pad
bleak spoke
you just slam everyone on boss damage
shrewd night
bleak spoke
i can't think of a single prog boss i didn't slam boss damage on
compared to like every single person in my raid
rotund oak
thats why ppl tend to compare outlaw to sin,that dmg meters most likely would be different 😉
sin pride went kappa
shrewd night
I miss flowi
warm parcel
He too toxic for yall
lean marten
i carried my guild on vex dmg
/dab
and when RL called to swap for raden orbs i was like "nah"
bleak spoke
yeah i actually said no when they were like swap
i was like "i'm casting vendetta on the boss make someone else do it"
LOL
to my surprise they actually did
fleet anchor
Assassination players are also the people who never stop dps when trying to call for timed phase transitions because they always have to try to win boss meters. 😉
strange python
just dropping in to share that the "detection" ability is a nice tool to switch from slow to fast in visions first zone.