Idk I play 1/0 EB's mainly nowadays anyways so I play entirely diff than you
#assassination
rigid mango
Aye I don't have the setup for it and I barely play the game anymore so
rigid mango
Wow is dead man
rigid mango
yikes
Aye idk I killed nzoth and went into temp hiatus mode
Gonna play more when I feel like it ig
But yeah I mean I can defo see it working with a big aoe build 4 sure
cobalt pelican
seems pre ok
falls behind as you expand the sim out though
and this is an unsocketed spyglass
just seems like more upfront burst for worse overall unless you somehow get 5stacks on both parts for full duration
cobalt pelican
it's probably decent if you're doing fire mage routing
cobalt pelican
yeah, longer sims generally aren't to check a '60 second pack'
raw shadow
playing 1min30 cds when you have a fire mage thats being played around
makes you want to die
cobalt pelican
but you need to evaluate the non-massive pack burst
raw shadow
its so aids
cobalt pelican
somehow
cause it's basically dead for 1min10
like nothing equipped
and the only ways to do that are either expand sim or use dslice or smth idk
raw shadow
also i cant see in the sim, but what were your other trinkets
i saw one is spyglass but i cant see the other
raw shadow
o
cobalt pelican
spyglass 465 unsocketed
raw shadow
gotcha
cobalt pelican
isntead of your vita
raw shadow
oh you're simming me in range of other people?
i dont think thats realistic
cause i can guarentee that i'm never in range of people 100% of the time
for the crit
10 yard range
on fan
8 yard on trinket stack
cobalt pelican
this is with 1k crit for the crit portion and 1044 vers for the vers portion
raw shadow
the crit runs out just as you want to reapply dots anyway
cobalt pelican
instead of 1.3/1.3
cobalt pelican
it's 8 yards idk do you play with no melee or something
i know fok reaches kinda far
but like
raw shadow
doesnt matter if u play with other melee unless they're deliberately cucking you by deliberately moving towards you and stand max range
you can just play around their positioning
pretty comfortably
raw shadow
for the 10 seconds after i apply dots i dont really need to
i can spam fan for 10 gcds comfortably
and just lose the melee swing damage
cause its meh anyway
becomes an issue when i need to kick
but i can just step in, kick and walk out
maybe lose 1 gcd of the crit value
no biggie
rigid mango
That's the one
cobalt pelican
i think it's probably pretty good if you're ape pulling and you know you can ape with it when you want to ape with it
rigid mango
Wait for SL
rigid mango
Same
rigid mango
I mean I can see it working if you're playing 3 eb ss and just holding it for 30 sec everytime to time shit with mage pulling
but that seems a bit awk too tbh
zinc zealot
just the fact that it lines up with blood is what makes it really appealing to get
raw shadow
yeah thats why i hate playing with mages
the world revolves around htem
problem is you need one
cobalt pelican
you know what else lines up with blood
rigid mango
unforch aye
cobalt pelican
vial of animated blood
raw shadow
cause they're op
raw shadow
LOL
raw shadow
vial of animated blood gives strengtrh
logs pls
not listening to you till you provide logs
idiot
how dare you have an idea
rigid mango
Strength rogue gaymer
cobalt pelican
does str even give a reduced ap amount for agi classes anymore
idk how that owrks
i guess not right
raw shadow
na
cobalt pelican
it used to be half value
cobalt pelican
unlucky
rigid mango
All I'm hearing is
3 ss vop minor manifesto memes
ok
EXSANG TOO
ok
we're gaming
lowkey wanna play keys w it now
zinc zealot
Exang is good when u are running double raden weapon, and u cant use toxic blade
rigid mango
Exsang honestly feels kinda fine for m+
I've played it a lot this season
Nice filter
ah nvm u just deleted
Looked like filter hit
rigid mango
Seli still swears by 3 eb ss 2 raden weap meta soon
I mean I understood that anyways
raw shadow
like just fan st
zinc zealot
same here lol, knew that would be good after playing sin last season with double divers folley
rigid mango
I have been meaning to do the sims for it
But never got around to it out of laziness
brave bolt
Hey guys, quick question. I recently switched from Outlaw to Assassination and I feel like I'm always energy starved after my initial burst and Vendetta are done, is that normal?
(lvl 120)
raw shadow
who cares about st, assas gets carried on st anyway
rigid mango
And yes assa is naturally energy starved raksis
Downtime is a natural part of the spec in single target
Aye I just don't know what the actual ST loss is
how detrimental it is, but I don't think it matters too much
raw shadow
marcus and i were simming it a few months ago
rigid mango
but I think it's one of the few ways assa could potentially keep up
raw shadow
sims absurdly higher on aoe
like 25% increase
but the st loss is pretty substantial
rigid mango
Aye I can see that beinga thing
turbid river
Hey guys, I just switch from Outlaw to Assassination and I feel like my DPS isnt as high as it could be. I'm around ilvl 462 and I can only pull around 27k-35k dps on Heroic Nzoth. I don't have any BiS items but it still feels extremely low. Is there a way for you guys to review what I'm doing wrong?
rigid mango
Feel free to link a log.
raw shadow
ye post logs
raw shadow
just pad on psychus 
rigid mango
Odds are someone logged it
zinc zealot
psychus dam is reserved for mages though?
rigid mango
Any 3 SS exsang for psychus damage gaymers?
raw shadow
LOL
rigid mango
turbid river
What's your rogue's ign
@rigid mango Aiacos-Barthilas
raw shadow
3x ss 3x np xsang
turbid river
I'll try asking for logs.
rigid mango
Yeah, tell me about it
I reformed solely in here 
Lets see, @turbid river You should not be using mutilate above 3 CP, at 4+ you always finish. You're barely casting toxic blade and just having random huge windows of not casting it, which is super bad
Your opener is awful
You don't press vanish, at all
You seem to be in need of
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
rigid mango
I'd recommend IV 🙂
turbid river
Oh, that xanesh was my first try using assassination. They didn't log the raids where i learned more. I'll give it a read tho.
rigid mango
Nah just that I know seli updates IV all the time
Either of the two are fine
Just not our guides 
rigid mango
raw shadow
giga
rigid mango
I just want more than 1 spec I find enjoyable ty
turbid river
My opener with subterfuge now is, Garrote>Rupture>Garrote>Mutilate>Toxic Blade>Envenom and so on.
Is this good or far from it? I know that i sometimes forget to use toxic blade. i need to create a weakaura for it
raw shadow
should be garrote rup garrote vendetta tb blood envenom (with ss)
rigid mango
You shouldn't be opening like that if you don't have shrouded suffocation traits
Which, unless you've changed azerite since the log 4 days ago
You don't
So you'd open gar > mut > rup > mut to 3+ > vend > tb > bote > env
turbid river
I didn't. My current azerite gear is just reforged from my outlaw.
raw shadow
ye i reccommend just running MA, it sims higher till you're more geared anyway
once you're insanely geared ss technically overtakes ma even on st
but ma is just easier to learn
raw shadow
these days a double non crit mut is extremely rare
rigid mango
The diff is nada I guess, one you have to react first 3 GCD's other you react 4th/5th gcd
Meh it's like, a 1/5 or something
or w/e cba doing maths but most people should sit on about 80% crit with MA I'd guess
raw shadow
if you have 80% a double non crit doesnt have a 20% chance of happening
its less
a lot less
rigid mango
yeah i know
like I said cba doing maths I noticed my % were off directly after typing it
It's a saturday ok
raw shadow
4% chance
turbid river
Thanks guys, I'll give the article a read and I need to remember not to mut unnecessarily
torpid sparrow
hello ppl , my guilde started progressing on n'zoth MM 2 weeks ago , but i was wondering if someone saw a better set up than the one i m using right now
thx in advance
vast forum
i would recommend NP instead of hod on your shoulder, even though it sims lower, N'zoth is a relatively low uptime fight with important burst windows
but it's not gonna be a huge difference
torpid sparrow
doesnt seems a bad idea, was thinking the same bout MA as talent for the burst window in p1
might try both
vast forum
MA doesn't provide more burst than subterfuge
unless you're thinking of psychus burst where the vanish garrote might not get full duration before psychus dies
sleek trail
so question is the bleed build a thing now?
drifting cloud
yes it sims pretty equal to standard build but it requires alot of gear, people just play it on farm because its more engaging mostly
its not some hidden op or something
sleek trail
oh ok thanks i was looking at logs and was like o_O
prisma perch
guys
in the master assassin build
if I have after:
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Rupture
Mutilate if still in master assassin window
Garrote
already 4 or 5 combo points, do I still muti?
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
vast forum
@prisma perch you shouldn't be using another mutilate after the garrote unless your first muti didn't give you 4 CP, which would mean you ruptured as 3rd global and you only have 1cp from the garrote
prisma perch
So I only use the muti after garrote if I started with less than 4 cp?
I am kinda confused on this opener
vast forum
basically
you press muti
and if it gives you 4 cp
you rupture
if it doesn't, you muti again
and then rupture
prisma perch
then garrote muti normal
vast forum
in the latter scenario, you're left with 0 cp after rupture, so after pressing garrote, you only have 1
so you mut, vend (or vend then mut), then TB and you should be at 5 unless you're really unlucky and nothing crits
but even having 4 is perfectly fine
prisma perch
breath of the dying and trinket comes before vendetta right
minor garden
patent topaz
dungeon slice?
patent topaz
happens
worthy dome
hey guys, how much relies my DPS on the essences? Im missing on Blood and lucid dreams rank 3 but I have other "good" essences that I can use until I have rank 3 on the others.
on our raid yesterday I only had 27% ranking for my Ilvl and was around 30k DPS I guess.
Can somebody help me find out what Im doing wrong, if isnt because of the essences? (figured out my opener was a bit wrong)
strange python
You can do a top Gear sim and compare how much more DPS you would gain with different essences
And maybe link the logs Here, so someone can look over it and find Errors that also are a Factor in your DPS
worthy dome
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rM6pRaFtbbsEuW61xkzUMQ
Here is a Sim of the gear I had equipped yesterday
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DcVqTZdN1KQarpn9/ and here is the log from yesterday
Im Wizrax
strange python
Anyone know about a wa that announce in /s or /p when you get a poison bomb procc ?
plain thistle
why do you want that? 🤔
plain thistle
its useless
patent topaz
4 mutilate casts in a row
strange python
I meant: go to "top Gear" on raidbots, import your Characters /simc, scroll down to essences, tick "advanced controls" and select the essences you want to compare.
Since you wanted to know how much of a DPS gain it is.
Cant check the logs because I'm on mobile, but others will
i just want it to anoy some ppl in guild ^^
worthy dome
yeah afterwards it came to my mind what you meant! I already did that and choose my essences according to it!
bleak star
I just hold BoE for every vendetta right?
plain thistle
yes
green forge
I just hold BoE for every vendetta right?
@bleak star yes
bleak star
ty
glad needle
what traits / talents everyone running in pvp now? stacking shrouded?
prisma perch
Î am trying the rota on the puppet but sometimes the skills dont activate right away (tb and rupture)
prisma perch
I got a rota suggestion here but it does not really do the dmg..
should one use trinket and essence after vendetta or before?
tough skiff
im getting better sim with subterfuge and 2x DD traits 
shy dust
For most people subterfuge ends up better than master assassin
boreal maple
think 90% of us have that
slim lava
is it worth to grind mechagon ring "set bonus"?
rancid bobcat
it's really good
you would only not use the set if you had rings that had really good corruption already
prisma perch
Is there a good addon to show the boss better?... I lack focus at jaina myth if all are stacked on another
agile citrus
Hello guys! I am really new to rouge, just been playing it for 4 weeks. I come here for some advice. I like a lot of M+ and I hear that outlaw is the best for this, I tried it and I just dont feel good with all the RNG that it has. I also like Sin way more. So the question is: Whats like the best talent set up and everything for running m+ as sin ?
subtle tundra
its "rogue" 
agile citrus
This one is a diff one xD
vast forum
for assa, you want to get 3x shrouded suffocation
rest of the traits should depend on the dungeon/rest of your group
but if you only pug, 3ss 3eb (echoing blades) is probably the way to go
blood of the enemy major, lucid, breath, vop/cns minor
worthy dome
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DcVqTZdN1KQarpn9/ and here is the log from yesterday
Im Wizrax
@worthy dome bump to my post
If somebody can take a look tell me what im doing wrong as I dont do the DMG I could with my ilvl
Thanks in advance!
arctic walrus
this aint it bro
silver musk
also this, if you are playing MA your opener should be M > R > M > G > WW >Ven >TB Vanish > env
worthy dome
@silver musk M both times till 4 cp? or just two at the beginning?
rigid mango
You're hoping first mut hits for 4, if not you mut again
silver musk
^
bleak star
whats ww?
worthy dome
maybe he meatn WV?
bleak star
would boe fill that spot then?
silver musk
y mb its WV
rigid mango
Bote is always the GCD between TB and env
So youb would always go vend > tb > bote > env
WV you can stick before vend yeah
worthy dome
^normally i try to do that but ill exchange for bote when i have it at rank 3
worthy dome
atm only as minor! sir!
rigid mango
Normally you'd prefer something like strife as the changable minor slot
But wouldn't be shocked if you don't have that either
worthy dome
weeeeell ive got enough pvp after bote 
rigid mango
Meh just get it v slowly, aslong as you get rating once you can cap it every week only by assaults and call to arms etc
worthy dome
i got rank 1! 
worthy dome
I knew yeah... but luckily there are other similiar options? riiiight?
worthy dome
tomorrow im getting my lucid dreams, and maybe if I ignore my uni stuff also bote
cobalt pelican
i've been playing with bote minor randomly the last 2 weeks
rigid mango
Who needs uni shit anyways
worthy dome
am I using TB often enough?
rigid mango
Aye I think it sims well for me too tbh
But I havn't checked in ages
Your TB usage is a little bit delayed here and there but nothing huge
bleak star
what about with master assas? vend vanish boe then evenom?
rigid mango
Also just click WV on CD g
worthy dome
as i learned now you should use bote before vanish i think
rigid mango
You delayed it to your TB on 2nd use but it's fine to just press
worthy dome
yeah.. i get a bit messed up when all my cds are rdy
Is it ok if hold on WV, when I know I will move in the next like 5-10 sec?
rigid mango
If you know you'll have to move and get full uptime directly after, yeah
strange python
why does assassination MELT raigonn in gate of the setting sun?
it's like i'm one of the only people on the boss and i shred it
boreal maple
im at 97.2k. no rrom for more corruptions :S and missing a few sockets
having rank 1 stat amps
sucks ass
cant get more then 49, unless i give up non rng corruptions
wicked anvil
leveling as an assass rogue becomes worse and worse 😦
hope level 120 is going to make a huge change
rigid mango
It's the worst of the 3.
wicked anvil
yep, i am already at that point where i have HUGE trouble with 2 enemys at the same time or a single mob which is a bit more difficult (like those typical questchain mobs)
dark crag
What's highest sim currently?
shy dust
Probably Raz at 100k
dark crag
Damn
dark crag
How many IS and GW?
strange python
Nobody brags with IS sims
rigid mango
0 IS 0 GW
dark crag
TA?
strange python
It's just full mythic gear with Sockets and many expedient and 1 or 2 racing pulse
rigid mango
No, expidient
strange python
Exsang
Thats his sim
R10 expedient, R3 RP. 11 Sockets, super high Neck Level, etc.
dark crag
I could run 15 visions tomorrow but i already puke after 2
For the sockets, 2 visions a day keeps the sanity away
strange python
I could do 30 man
And I really wanted to get them done this week
But fuck me If I can actually pull through that
strange python
Yeeeeep. Feels hella bad. Would've gotten 100 neck in 4 or 5 weeks If it didnt stop
Now it will take aaaaages
lime edge
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jjJ34ZMntCH1S5x3tSh7wx
is it odd that my deadly poison is doing more damage than my rupture?
strange python
Odd in what regard? The Sim isnt bugged regarding DP or rupture damage If thats the question
cobalt pelican
pretty normal at low gear levels
drifting cloud
only way you were gonna get 100 in 5 weeks is if you are 95 doing whole level a week
which is big doubt 🤔
strange python
After the rep Buff, I get one Level and Like 30% per weel
strange python
Well, I did get 1 Level 30% per week before the AK stop
strange python
It was 104k per Level every week, and then i did 25k or so on top always
3 Islands, full raid clear, Clearing follower Missions daily, 500 wq per week with contract
And all dailys obv
cobalt pelican
i get like 15k ap a week froggers
strange python
Well 500 was on good weeks
drifting cloud
isnt 94 way more than 104k
strange python
400 something on average ones
drifting cloud
or well I guess you got it this reset
strange python
Nope, with AK my current Level Always got bumped down to 104k
And ye, all AP WQ, all "kill 1 Mob" WQ, all Tortollans that are Not Beachheads, all "get x Material" If theyre quick
Stuff like that
boreal maple
i mean if u did 400 wq avg per week
u literally did all
evewry single one
on the entire map each day
strange python
No pet Battles
And yes, pretty much
Last week i was Missing for 3 days though, and this one also for one. But If AK was still updating, I would've gotten 95 today I think
Don't judge though, it's fun for me
drifting cloud
92 is 110k, so even with ak would have still been 93
so if you are almost 95 you do more than 130k~ a week 😛
unless you turned in all paragon boxes now that its capped and old quest etc
strange python
Not almost 95, just 75% rn.
strange python
Fuck me
strange python
How much %dps increase was a concordance Level in Legion on average? Neck Level is like 500dps or so mby
Idk If its my memory failing me, but it feels like concordance Levels were faster to Grind out
hasty fiber
@quasi pewter can u link me your 3x shrouded suff sim
quasi pewter
yes
hasty fiber
sad
my double dose sim is still higher by 2k dps
but i feel like since most of the fights in nya have an add so your build might be best still idk
quasi pewter
2k is quite big
hasty fiber
yeah i mean
im not blessed with expedient
heres my DD build
3x SS build
im resimming the 3x ss build with crit gems and enchants rn
quasi pewter
crit gems are only good once you hit a certain amount of haste
quasi pewter
so i doubt theyre better than haste for you
hasty fiber
ty for the help
eager river
thats fuckin vile saryero
lime edge
hey idk
chilly marsh
how much dmg its worth.
drifting cloud
thats literally the opposite of what by miles means
bronze cipher
When do i reapply bleeds as far as seconds?
rancid bobcat
30% of the duration of the bleed you're applying
digital zodiac
do i hold my 2nd vendetta and 3rd exsang for 2nd vanish?
echo parrot
@quasi pewter but u never play with condensed or?
vast forum
4th exsang but yes @digital zodiac
median marsh
Does garrote snapshots anything? Like stat increases, damage increases etc?
arctic walrus
No rogue ability does except subterfuge garrote. Garrote can be affected by subterfuge, so you shouldn’t overwrite an empowered garrote until it’s duration runs out
median marsh
Thanks, that part I got. Also, how does vanish and vendettta line up after pull? they are desynced because you use vanish 20-something seconds later than vendettta, right? You wait for vanish the second time?
dark crag
With ss traits and if you won't miss another vendetta in that fight yes, otherwise no
Like the vendetta gets ready but vanish has 20 sec cd, but boss will die in 1min 59sec
So you can wait 20 sec without missing a vendetta at all
civic hatch
do sin ever pop vendetta on illgynoth organs with vop minor? to try and get both a vendetta on organs and then boss
scarlet sequoia
just use it on cd assuming you get full duration
obv use your brain and make sure to have it ready for last phase with lust tho
shy axle
whats up with that SS-exang raiding build ? can`t find anything but chittychatter so far. Anything where i can read it up?
scarlet sequoia
what do u wanna know
shy axle
how did people come up with it, what is it doing better than a DDbuild (if there is anything aside just dmg)? Are there any special requirements ? I hear you "need" the carapace chest due to the higher ilvl, %haste corruptions/%crit corruptions. I just got TA ones and i did not kill carapace, just interested in how it works and what makes it good
scarlet sequoia
most bosses have some sort of way to utilize the build to make it better than standard dd build
you need very good gear to make it pull ahead of the "normal" builds and to make it really good you need some expedients preferably
shy axle
ah the haste one, okay
gear etc also haste focused then?
do you have a link posted here regarding you gear that i can check just out of curiosity
cobalt pelican
they probably balance out somewhere judging based on even the expedient gamers gemming crit eventually
just expedient likely has better base value from op
and viterer
boreal maple
i have rank 4 crit and rank 6 expidient 🙃
sage plank
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
marble hemlock
@raw shadow I've thought about manifesto myself, but ultimately with the on-use being on a 1m30s cd and the crit scaling dynamically I fail to see how its supposed to be any better than deadeye spyglass. It's roughly the same amount of crit from spyglass, and while the versa is nice and all, it'll lie outside of BotE and thus be somewhat useless. I can see Manifesto being something we might wanna try for pure AoE, but even then I doubt it's gonna come close to dice or Spyglass.
If it were the other way around it would actually be quite a bit better, having the versa during BotE and then the extra crit after blood runs out. But as it stand, you're already close to capping crit during BotE to begin with, so the extra crit-on-use might potentially be wasted entirely
vast forum
Wasn't it simmed against vita in aoe?
marble hemlock
Dunno if it was, no idea what vita would do in an aoe sim to begin with.
Probably one of the worst trinkets you could run for AoE :p
vast forum
The sim i saw posted for manifesto had vita in gear compare
I still think vita's pretty good for m+ considering the group buff
marble hemlock
Oh, I absolutely agree. But for our dps its essentially useless on AoE due to our non-existant haste scaling on AoE.
vast forum
Yea, it was simmed on 10 targets with 3xEB i think
Haste value isn't that bad in 3t cleave
vast forum
Any1 know if vendetta gcd is still hasted?
I know it used to be but haven't really paid attention to it recently
distant lava
Can't you go straight to vers if all you want is insanely high aoe dmg ?
wicked anvil
Hi guys, Ive got a question: what Spec is more recommended for PvE ? (M+ and Raiding) Assassination or Outlaw? assassination seems to be more DoT based imo
but i watched the top DPS meter ranking and assassin was the highest performing rogue specc
echo parrot
okay wow... the build with haste crit gear and deeper strat sims like 4,5k dps better than my master assa build.. even with 1x Expedient III and 1 Racing Pulse I
obsidian kiln
hey guys its a me. just wanted to say thanks for helping back then. i dinged 120 with my assa and im pretty compfy with it
its just like i would play ffxiv xD a bit slower on the buttons but still good
strange python
is HOD stronger than DD for bosses like dresta? what about shrouded suffocation?
tropic ruin
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
crimson palm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bNzjtLifAc5G3yY66yjgGJ so what's the next milestone?
dark crag
110k
royal tree
100k without meld or p2w would be amazing too
quasi pewter
fake sim ur not even night elf 
royal tree
one can dream
chilly marsh
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/beSszCSb4ndji2U8wnXS1h
guys is 700 dps loss Ok for having the trinket buff your team?
it's infinitely more convenited not needing to use 2 trinkets too 😂
strange python
Probably? A heroic one gives 282 haste to each of your 4 other group Members for 15 Seconds, which would be a 25% uptime on average If it procs once a Minute (which it does IIRC)
So as Long as your 4 other Party members gain more than 2.48 DPS per Point of haste on average, which is definitely the Case, it should be worth it
If I didn't brainfart there
crimson palm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/71yX4WW2UHdMhfHFVwxyHq i linked ya the same sim 2 days ago
where humans sim the same as night elves with 2x DD
quasi pewter
2dd exsang is just as fake as worldvein or stars sims
molten mesa
How are worldvein sims fake
patent topaz
I sim 120k with worldvein and 420 allies
crimson palm
how can u compare dd to worldvein or stars
one requires u to have uptime on boss, one requires you to stand in place for full benefit and the last one requires a long fight
on a single target
that basically means everyone who's running 3xDD with TB is fake
boreal maple
quasi pewter
go play it then 
boreal maple
DD beats my ss by 200 dps!
strange python
How come assassination doesn’t get alacrity?
plain thistle
we do next expasion 🙂
strange python
Cool
patent topaz
💤
strange python
Probably gonna need it if we’re gonna be juggling 3 finishers
magic thorn
What third finisher ?
zenith wren
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
marble kettle
snd
fleet anchor
@quasi pewter "2dd exsang is just as fake as worldvein" I'm trying to unpack what this is supposed to mean exactly?
I mean, if you don't like the playstyle of DD compared to SS, that's cool. But I don't exactly see what would be "fake" about it? Vast majority of Rogues have been running DD for almost 2 full tiers, it's kinda a known quantity is it not?
Exsang doesn't require SS to be competitive, Exsang being good is a function of gear and haste levels, not SS.
(Which is why Exsang is not actually better than TB for most people, since the gear requirements to make it work are quite high)
rancid bobcat
my assassination gear is on cruise control
its m+ time till the end of the expac
strange python
@magic thorn rupture, envenom, and SnD
magic thorn
Is snd baseline then ?
regal river
What settings do u sim Nzoth mythic as? Is it even possible?
shy axle
yeah, back in the day env ( or even rupture can`t remember) refreshed it on its own. Wonder if it will be back
rancid bobcat
nzoth is pretty much pure single target
vast forum
n'zoth is full ST for assa but you should slightly value burst traits over sustain
like, i'd take a NP over a HoD if it's a 500 dps difference on a sim
rancid bobcat
interesting point
vast forum
with all the paranoias and mindgrasps and intermissions, the burst becomes really valuable for progress
regal river
i wanna run x3 SS for nzoth and im unsure what stats to stick with. Seems like a lot goes for high haste but also seeing a balance of haste/crit
3 SS. 2 NP. 1 HoD
regal river
R3 flay + R2 flay + R2 expedient decent?
vast forum
yea
quasi pewter
@fleet anchor i said fake because he was trying to flex his sim and it is obvious that he would never run that build
dire spoke
reroll to hunter for 105k
patent topaz
60k to go 
wicked anvil
is it just me or is the lack of selfheal as assass rogue a huge problem?
sullen pagoda
Just you
idle verge
How do I make the switch from outlaw to assassination? Is there a good guide that covers the basics? Will I have to get completely new gear? Is it worth it? 🙂
dawn root
In my opinion, assassination is the better raiding spec and pvp arena spec if you're into that. Also with the right gear, assassination makes 5 mask vision clears easy as can be. Outlaw, on the other hand, is just too good in M+ dungeons with the right corruption and gear, so I have collected enough gear / azerite gambles / various corruptions to be able to swap back and forth depending on what I am doing
Assassination is generally more consistent ST for raiding, although you could make an argument with RNG corruptions like stars and tentacles, but it's generally the better ST raiding spec and is obviously favored on progression fights
Assassination is tougher to gear because the azerite traits you want for different situations vary quite a bit while outlaw stays the same ST vs Dungeon, for example
idle verge
I enjoy Outlaw alot as I mainly play m+ however I feel limited because I might want to start getting into some pvp and I just want a spec where I can do evertything comfortably. Assassination seems fun for be but I would have to go through the learning process again. Is it worth to switch if i never plan to raid?
vast forum
for pvp definitely
but tbh i would say that being able to play both is very important for m+ as well
assa is easily better than outlaw in KR/ToS
and workshop
fleet anchor
"Also with the right gear, assassination makes 5 mask vision clears easy as can be."
I would say for starting out, Outlaw is quite a bit easier for HVs because getting a good enough gear setup for Assassination that makes it as efficient as Outlaw is pretty difficult.
But honestly, my recommendation would be to learn both specs instead of one-tricking because realistically there is a lot of reason to use both.
Neither spec will do everything "comfortably" since there are pros and cons to both and honestly it's probably easier to go with the flow of spec swapping than to do all the specific things you have to do to worry about making one spec fit into every situation. But that's just my take.
idle verge
Okay, but I just got back into the gaming putting 2 months of playing outlaw just to learn the game. I want to try assassination now but I dont have that much time on my hands. Don't I need to spend time getting haste gear and specific traits?
fleet anchor
The top-end of Assassination gear usually involves Expedient haste setups but it's not really required to go that route initially
Crit is a decent stat for Assassination, for example (which is the same as Outlaw)
idle verge
Alright, what traits should I aim for?
I'm not aiming to be the best in the world just want to play and have fun with a class and spec I enjoy, just to get everything out of the game you know
harsh sphinx
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
wicked anvil
i am having a bit trouble with the complexity of the whole rotation that is shown in guides, can i use the following as a basic rotation ? keeping garrote and rupture (4+ Combo) up, and then use Envenom with 4+ Combo Points and keep toxic blade on cd ?
frank olive
how much can you burst with exsanguinate build + gift of the titans proc?
drifting cloud
frank olive
well my question was trash lol
tardy ether
enough to kill rexxar in about 10 seconds
drifting cloud
https://i.gyazo.com/thumb/1200/59dbfac74ec295d4870076efef8136d7-png.jpg this is from 2 months ago
so can probably kill it even faster now
tardy ether
most alleria kills end up on 350-450k
frank olive
damn
sudden trench
What trinkets do you run? Using font?
tardy ether
Font is good for bosses in visions, if you don't mind gearswapping
https://streamable.com/dq86e this is from around 2 months ago without haste amps
now I usually play haste amps with vita & galecallers on bosses
strange python
hey guys, what are the best stats for triple TA
chilly marsh
how you guys are using coral on drest'agath?
cobalt pelican
accidentally putting it on the boss and then forgetting about it
chilly marsh
thinking of switching it for golden Plumage
more boss burn i think
anyone have xp with mythic drest here?
scarlet sequoia
no
cobalt pelican
drest kinda a clown boss and your experience will vary drastically depending on how much ownage your guild does
from 'everything is dead guess i afk' to actually having to do things
coral kinda ass though
chilly marsh
+- what i'm experiencing
zinc coyote
Just don’t use coral on drest
wicked anvil
anyone here who got the hidden artifact skin? there are no rares spawning in underbelly 😦
fleet whale
The underbelly might be free for all pvp right now
dull pond
thanks dude!
quasi oriole
If anyone in here is bored and wants to answer some noob questions chuck me a DM, I'm confused
quasi oriole
So I'm running 1x Ss trait & subterfuge, when I open should I garrote->rupture->garrote into TB etc
arctic walrus
@rigid mango I’ll do you one better
stiff tartan
how worth is it to ging the triple nothing personal + vision build in the raid ?
quasi oriole
Or is it better to garrote mut rupture
raven locust
Are you on progression still Smolf?
arctic walrus
You would vendetta tb env
stiff tartan
i am just doing weekly hc
shy dust
Just use what sims best
raven locust
If it sims higher you can give it a go, it's not ideal on a lot of fights
arctic walrus
Triple np vision isn’t anything special. Guess you van go for it if it sims best for you but it’s very rng
shy dust
I wouldn’t consider it to be ideal though
raven locust
But it is heroic so it doesnt matter much tbh
arctic walrus
Top build right now is triple ss exsang but that requires some expedients
Otherwise stick with dd standard
quasi oriole
Have heroic vita aswell but mythic humming sims higher, not sure what I should try prioritise upgrading
arctic walrus
get better azerite, more corruption, better gear
manic pebble
sage plank
Sorry for the question but what does triple ss exsang mean ?
keen dome
3 Shrouded Strangulation azerite traits on armor + Exsanguinate talent. Build for very high short burst dmg.
sage plank
Thanks now i dont feel that dumb anymore
vestal wren
!abb
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue abbreviations: http://www.ravenholdt.net/rogue-abbreviations/
vestal wren
we made a list of common abbreviations some time ago, it can help a lot 🙂
cobalt gyro
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8dFb5nLFzzWBX7ZDvxqhq3 man this set is dum
grave bison
hi, i wanted know why do people stack haste for 3s build
keen dome
can't tell for sure as I don't know the maths, but in my case it was more of a comination of SS, DS and Exsang. By using DS you loose Vigor, and to make up for this loss you need loads of haste
grave bison
i mean does it make SS azerite to tick more? if not it has no sense in it
arctic walrus
yeah haste makes bleeds tick more
rigid mango
You don't need to play exsang for 3 SS to be good
bleak spoke
@arctic walrus even without expedients 3ss exsang sims best for me
But my gear does actually all happen to have haste
arctic harness
How good are the heart of darkness traits for the exsanguinate build? Is it worth using 465 pieces with SS/HoD over 480 pieces with things like TTK/SS or NP/SS
arctic walrus
just depends on how it sims for you
bleak spoke
Sim it
arctic walrus
most of the time you end up having some stat % corruptions which scale heart a lot better
tranquil moat
Yeah I’m making the switch to haste gems today, I didn’t know about the exsang build until this morning lol
bleak spoke
1st np is usually a huge gain
arctic harness
My guild only killed the first 3 on mythic so far, so I’m a bit constrained on 480 raid pieces
arctic harness
Think I still got the SS/HoD helm in my bank, will pop it in raidbots later
See if it beats the 480 SS/TTK
bleak spoke
The burst is the nuts
raven mica
Galecaller’s/construct overcharge ftw
bleak spoke
Like depending on your procs you peak with the mages
arctic harness
Me neither, I like the change of pace. Always liked exsanguinate builds 
raven mica
I can run it too, I just need to roll shoulders
tranquil moat
!guides
raven mica
To not have to reforge my gorak timbs
arctic harness
Hmmm Galecallers you say. Think I got a 475 somewhere. Gonna try that 2
bleak spoke
Yeh I’m playing raden/gorak/vexi for azerite
raven mica
Oh don’t run it now
arctic harness
Saving up for Gorak Tul’s now
bleak spoke
Galecallers with exsang at 465 barely loses to my 475 plumage so worth a sim if you have a 475
arctic harness
Yeah, should be fun
raven mica
Compared to good coral/vita though?
bleak spoke
It gets pretty weird to use the trinket in practice though
Coral is so bad on the late bosses in the raid
raven mica
Feelsbad yea
bleak spoke
I haven’t played my coral in a bit tbh but I’ve been extending for a while now my first reclear is this Tuesday
raven mica
I actually don’t have an alternative for assassination...
arctic harness
At this point, I just wanna meme a bit. Not that serious anymore
raven mica
I think you hold exsang for GCB since exsang snapshots haste
bleak spoke
I’m pretty excited to wipe to soccer boss I think it’ll be hilarious
bleak spoke
You press second gale on cd
And then you probably hold it all for 4th exsang
So at 2:25ish you have vanish vendetta exsang
bleak spoke
Not sure
arctic harness
Do you hold 3rd exsanguinate for vanish + vendetta or do you hold vanish and vendetta for 4th exsanguinate?
arctic walrus
it's not even just about the burst, you can utilize the cleave so much in this tier it makes it infinitely more worth over dd/st build
raven mica
You play it just like frost DK I think.
Play around the exsang cooldown, not the 2 minutes.
arctic harness
Gotcha
bleak spoke
You can overwrite your dots hard for exsang
arctic walrus
i'm not quite sure on it but you just use on cd for the most part
raven mica
Vel you forget what spec I main if cleave is required.
bleak spoke
So if there’s like 14s of garrote and like 20s of rupture it’s still worth to overwrite them I think for your normal exsang casts
Outlaw is dog this tier
arctic walrus
there's cleave and mongo aoe 
raven mica
I still main it.
bleak spoke
Man it’s not even good at mongo aoe
arctic walrus
okay pandaman
raven mica
Also unholy shenanigans if they do that route
arctic walrus
just run iris 🙂
raven mica
Can I just fucking reroll DK already
bleak spoke
So you can iris slower than the dh kekw
raven mica
DHs are running bote if they’re fel barrage padding
bleak spoke
By the time your iris finishes their barrage has killed everything lmao
arctic harness
DH’s are also running str trinkets, so are they even still a class or a walking meme at this point
raven mica
They’ve been a walking meme since 7.0
bleak spoke
The spray owns
If I had one I’d probably run it on outlaw tbh
It just does mongo damage no matter what you are just so happens it’s best for dh because of their azerite
raven mica
Outlaw it takes too much work
bleak spoke
Why
raven mica
Hold too much shit to make it good
arctic harness
Could be funny with 3x Brigants and time it well
raven mica
Iris doesn’t require you to hold AR and potentially pop bote to make it worth running over just another good trinket
sullen pagoda
@bleak spoke you are going to summon outlaw fanboys 
bleak spoke
Could play triple tfd subtlety
raven mica
Already got me in here
bleak spoke
The fdk in my raid got a rank 1 on nzoth on our prog kill 
Ackshual gamer
I didn’t get to vendetta psychus 
raven mica
120k hot damn lemme look at this dude’s gear
CHILL STREAK GAMER
Also 2 gushers and a 445 font ok gamer
bleak spoke
Yeah he’s incredible in raid
sullen pagoda
meanwhile ours almost got last log world when we gave him kill
raven mica
Epic AMS evoke anguish just to tunnel boss even harder
bleak spoke
Rip
sullen pagoda
still simming 101k with 39 corruption, warriors btw 
bleak spoke
Lmao feelsexpedientman
bleak spoke
I love playing my warrior tbh hitting execute is just so satisfying
sullen pagoda
for sure, especially after getting coral after so long of bad luck
raven mica
That’s me and my DK with getting 40 second breaths
sullen pagoda
it just slaps
bleak spoke
Man I was so mad we went to do azshara for fonts for our mages today and I was excited to try for a coral
And they had a lockout
LOL
sullen pagoda
LUL
raven mica
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aL4nYefXy25rcZu4zPb8bo
I mean look at this lad, he’s banging.
patent topaz
you can pug for coral if you want to
bleak spoke
Actual irl upset tier 
raven mica
Yea pugs can kill ashvane reliably
sullen pagoda
im starting to gear up mage for fun need to convince friends to come to my font run
bleak spoke
Yeah but I’m tryna get everyone in my raid to trade me one because everyone basically has one
raven mica
My rogue has a 455 socketed
patent topaz
of everything
bleak spoke
Those are so fucking trap mtv
raven mica
But it’s fucking useless outside of reclears
bleak spoke
People are so bad at azshara
raven mica
444 pulls to get my first kill..
bleak spoke
It’s actually perplexing
shrewd night
wdym i have to run around in circles???
sullen pagoda
i saw wildi mythic runs
bleak spoke
630 here over 4 guilds and 3 servers or something lmao
Decrees are actually comedy with people who haven’t done the boss
raven mica
We had to swap so many people...
I had to play sin the whole way.....
With BOTE
In EP.
when CLF existed.
bleak spoke
I mean clf still sims the best
bleak spoke
Oof
raven mica
If I get a dagger my first cara kill
bleak spoke
I brolled the dagger on our first and only kill
raven mica
I’m linking it here.
sullen pagoda
you better not
bleak spoke
My gear for sin’s been pretty decent this tier
raven mica
Just to rub the salt in
sullen pagoda
i do have double raden weapon tho before our dhs
raven mica
Oh if I didn’t have a mythic one I’d slap you harder than those slappers slap
bleak spoke
I will actually mald
I’m beating rogues with the mythic raden weap in the few keys I play double outlaw in I’m actually mald
raven mica
My corruption is poopoo on outlaw so.
bleak spoke
4.5k by the end of next week or I quit game 
bleak spoke
Like set of 23s it’s not bad
bleak spoke
Idk I still do 10-15 keys a week ish nowadays but
Nothing like the 40-50 I used to 
I miss reaping
Anyway me go bed
shy axle
how do you do your opener with subterfuge and no SS traits? Started to sim better with Subter > MA. Also how do you use vanish as a cd? Just one Gar and let it be or Gar - X - Gar for maximum uptime of the buffed one?
shy axle
ok so nothing fancy, just a normal garrote as if nothing special happens (?)
faint harness
yes
those talents are all low impact 🙂
barely a loss to play without any chosen talent on that row, very exciting
shy axle
ok
just feels weird to play it at first without any SS. Can`t wait to try out the SS build tho if/when we down carapace. Got 2 expeds already, lets see
copper wyvern
Hey guys, Im having some problems with my dps. Simming has me at 52k. i can burst prettyu good to 80k ish, but drop fast and begin leveling out at 33-40k
Any idea where I can begin to look for wahts wrong?
arctic walrus
Are you hitting a dummy
copper wyvern
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/thrall/nifftee if this would help. If this isnt the chat for this could you point me in the right direction?
yeah
arctic walrus
It’s more helpful to link your sim not armory
copper wyvern
okay
worldly fable
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
worldly fable
Is this up to date?
arctic harness
Is this up to date?
@worldly fable https://mplus.subcreation.net/assassination-rogue.html
arctic walrus
Yeah so you can just look at the rotation it’s using and go from there
42 is what you should be doing on a dummy
But it’s actually going to be lower since you’re running IS
worldly fable
Thanks for the M+ link, but with all due respect I don't trust or care for high keys and M+ is not the only content in the game
arctic walrus
Blood 3 should be your go to for either type of content
For minors you take breath lucid and conflict
worldly fable
I am using BOTE3, but I am mainly interested in seeing how VOP holds up
arctic walrus
As major it’s just very rng, it might sim slightly ahead depending on your gear but not at lot of people run it
It can proc on pointless targets
worldly sandal
playing retribution and it procs when the last mob is at <10% health
arctic walrus
It’s kinda different for Ret/balance/hunter cuz you can at least utilize the proc since it’s a buff on you rather than a debuff on a target
worldly sandal
thats true, but its still annoying if theres enough time between pulls that youre wasting a few seconds of what is already not a lot of time
worldly fable
Very well, thanks for the info, I was mainly thinking VOP on ST Bosses and possibly pvp but this "As major it’s just very rng" pretty much covers it all, while as a minor it syncs Vendetta with Bote, but desyncs it from vanish
arctic walrus
Still you don’t run it as a minor unless for very specific boss timings
Like for example wrathion
honest basin
If I sim via topgear raidbots shows that I sim higher if I remove all my DDs to put NPs instead. That would make me have 3 NPs without even having VoP as a major. it doesn't feel right, has it happened to anyone ?
shrewd night
Ive had some shit sims where it wants me to go 1SS2DD
I dont know why, but its weird as all fuck
honest basin
Indeed, but then how do I know what is really best ?
While 3 NPs seems wrong without VoP Major, how do I know if I should go 3x DD 1x NP and 2x HoD, or 2x DD 2x NP 2x HoD ? The latter does sim higher, but the former makes a lot more sense.
boreal maple
how big is the difference?
cobalt pelican
why would you want dd over np even
np damage is concentrated inside a window and punished way less for downtime/rotational errors
if it's your top simming trait w/o vop inflating it be happy
sullen pagoda
plus 3x np vision minor is really good for nzoth prog imo
honest basin
Mmh okay
I don't know I felt like if you managed the Envenom buff well DD was better in the facts
pale crane
Hey Guys, I tested a bit NZoth Mythic. Any advices for traits? Guess Subterfuge is better?! Any proper tipps? tricks? Maybe someone has a strong log to compare?
vast forum
strong logs on n'zoth are people assigned to psychus
pale crane
Iam assigned to psychus
vast forum
both DD and SS are good for n'zoth, depending on your group setup
opal minnow
you can play whatever you have been up to that point really
stiff tartan
is it ever worth to using superior battle pot of agi over unbridled fury ?
ember mural
from icyveins
willow pulsar
Does anybody remember the table of crit&number of targets for FoK spamming with triple eb?
vestal wren
6 targets with 3 EB traits, could be slightly lower if you have high crit amounts
target count gets higher with lower EB count
green basalt
crying a little bit inside got the 475 mace from shad with expident r3 and a socket