tbh you really just can't play sin in m+ without ss
#assassination
arctic walrus
and again, you might not even need to swap your stats around, go sim your top gear and gems and go from there
remote vale
I was simming but with max out on crit gem and enchant I was running too low on energy and the rotation was sluggish. Just moving enchants and gems around has made it smoother. I see a lot of people slotting all haste gems, no agi
arctic walrus
Again, everyone's gear is different. Sin's playstyle will not be reminiscent of outlaw, it's a naturally slower spec, so being sluggish doesn't necessarily mean you're doing less damage
echo cargo
Mostly depends on your corruptions
% value of a stat usually lends weight to that stat
Stars gets more value w/ haste
Things that are totally random like mindflay seem to get more out of crit
remote vale
That makes sense. I have R3 Flay right now and im farming for the Cara weapons so might make more sense to spec for crit until stars
echo cargo
Also be sure to sim for how long your fight encounter is- shorter fights tend to get more from Crit + Vers
If your guild is doing Shadhar which tends to be extremely short, there's no reason to sim for 5 minutes
prisma perch
I try to get my best opener but I cannot find it... Can someone help me? (master assassin build)https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rX3QarS6g866bU1H5v6JQp
dull osprey
for mythics, should I be running an AoE build even on tyrannical weeks?
btw Alt, you can scroll down on the quick sim to see what abilities the sim is using and in what order
prisma perch
I try to get my best opener but I cannot find it... Can someone help me? (master assassin build)https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rX3QarS6g866bU1H5v6JQp
@prisma perch I know I use my trinket out of stealth but the order ... sometimes i manage 100k sometimes 80k or 60k
opal minnow
@prisma perch
outer moon
When did triple SS + Exsanguinate become such a hot thing, and why does it beat double dose, considering you're generally only going to get 3 empowered garrotes?
hoary apex
vanish lets you reapply empowered garrotes
and it's because of the power of expedient corruptions and how much faster they make your dots tick. So you get like 1 min worth of empowered garrotes in like 20 seconds
you need a lot of expedients to make it worth it
outer moon
Right - So you open with it from stealth, then you vanish to reapply after the first one (23 secs?), then at 2:23, you can do it again, and the fight is likely over before you can do it again at 4:46.
Ohhh, so it's basically a haste stack build.
hoary apex
yup
ah i see
then yea, you get about 3 sets of empowered garrotes
but the reason it's good and people have started using it is more people have the haste corruptions to pull it off
earlier there was literally 1 rogue who had the corruption drops at the time to pull it off
opal minnow
It also sims pretty high and isn't dependent on infinite stars stacks or TA procs so it tends to be a bit more consistent in its damage
outer moon
I kinda want to give it a shot.. I just hate how dependent we are on random drops to parse. Skill goes out the window if you have bad luck.
arctic harness
Yeah I’m pretty sick of hoping for a mind flay on opener 
silver quiver
G1 G2 G3 R1 FoK Env BotE 5xFoK
I'm very new to assas. Is this r1 a 3 combo point rupture?
outer moon
Has anyone ever messed with a haste based M+ bleed build?
@silver quiver Are you using Shrouded Suffocation or nah?
outer moon
I think at that point, a 3pt rup just to get the energy flowing would be fine; once you're FoKing everything full rups will come quick if you need em, yeh?
silver quiver
I'm going to dig into more guides and try to build up my gear score more for now, and just focus on making sure the fan comes after the BOE
silver quiver
Can anyone recommend the second azerite essence to buy on my rogue, I already have BOTE, Lucid dreams minor?
opal minnow
breath of the dying
silver quiver
I'm actually not quite revered with ramkahen yet >.< just getting back into it, but my main has virtualy everything else
opal minnow
then probs c&s if you already have lucid dreams
silver quiver
holla
digital zodiac
lads do i go triple ss exsang for nzoth prog or stay normal dd setup?
steep obsidian
you are a st bot on taht fight pretty much as sin
you there to pump the boss
and pyschus
vast forum
Both are good @digital zodiac
arctic walrus
maybe they wont sim better but if ss/exsang is close you should end up running that for the majority if not all of the raid
vast forum
Dd provides a bit more tentacle damage, but if your guild doesn't struggle with them, you're fine with ss exsg
Ss exsg is really good on low uptime fights and n'zoth has really good timings for it
steep obsidian
i was tempted to try visions and np but the timeings dont work
steep obsidian
yah
synapse dam is really really important though depending on what classes ya have too
vast forum
if for whatever reason you struggle with synapses
you CAN run breath major
but it's like... why would you? 😄
cold spoke
any weakauras brains
whats the good trigger for exang bleeds?
condition, most likely an event
fathom swift
I've tried finding one before, it doesnt really work
fathom swift
yeah i just used exsang cd
steep obsidian
im sure there is an existing weak aura you can reerse engineer?
fathom swift
not perfect but better than nothing
i couldnt find an existing wa that could do it for both bleeds
steep obsidian
ive seen one that shows your bleed duration number in green when its subterfuged?
but taht was last expac
fathom swift
subterfuge you can track exsang for some reason doesnt really work on both
vast forum
it's not like the rotation is complex, press exsg, spam 2x mut into envenom until garrote expires, reapply garrote, 2x mut into envenom until rupture expires
fluid phoenix
Hey guys
fathom swift
yeah but there's no reason not to track it if you can
vast forum
i guess
fluid phoenix
Is it cool if I ask you guys some questions for the future squish? Just looking for speculation
untold mortar
hey guys, hows the exsang opener with clf? - clf/pot/stealth pre fight, gar, rup, gar, mut, vend, rup, exsang - like this or am i wrong?
cold spoke
doesn't matter if rotation is complex or not, it's just the matter of nice and tidy ui
heavy lark
ss heart of darkness build x3 > DD, NP x3.. what people think?
cobalt pelican
thinking is for tryhards
opal minnow
@untold mortar correct
fluid phoenix
what will you hope the new stat priority be?
mastery->crit->haste? Or will it stay same?
I think that with slice and dice coming back that the priority will change.
2: what do you think about the new talent spec changes?
do you think deeper stratagem will pull ahead of vigor since S&D is coming back?
How is master poisoner compared to the other options?
opal minnow
Most people already don't care about stat prio when we have topgear from raidbots. kinda a waste to worry about it outside of maybe m+
fluid phoenix
Well I'm still building up my gear. And I just like to speculate and mess around with stuff as it's fun for me
50% more haste for x seconds depending on combo
cobalt pelican
but if alacrity is somehow playable maybe we won't be haste fiends for the first tier somehow
fluid phoenix
yeah that's what I was hoping :D
When I first started I was getting multiple people telling me get that haste to 20% ish
vast forum
there are still missing talents and many unknowns with legendaries and soulbinds
there's no reasonable speculation to be done this early in the alph
alpha*
cobalt pelican
i'm already putting all my eggs in the venom rush basket
vast forum
also, none of this is related to the stat squish
cobalt pelican
:stonks:
vast forum
it's all just scaled down but % values will still be the same
fluid phoenix
Well I was wondering how master poisoner will be as well
Mastery + MP and exsang sounds juicy to me as a casual
rocky ruin
I hope Poison Bomb get a reworked
vast forum
all of it will come down to late-beta tuning
cobalt pelican
considering there's been no further invites since the pieces wave went out and no balance changes afaik
vast forum
mp can feel good but in the end if the numbers are too low, it's not gonna be used
rocky ruin
But they trick of the trades again
vast forum
i think the entire alpha will be focused on testing new systems and zones and quests
rocky ruin
10% Dmg buff
vast forum
beta will have some balancing
rocky ruin
For you and the target its use on
opal minnow
they're likely working on torgast powers, then leggos, then fine tuning talents and covenant things towards the end of beta
There's still quite a lot for them to work out
cobalt pelican
indeedily doodily
especially if legendaries/soulbinds are going to have class interactions though you'd hope they had a decent class base to work from
so that they're not crutches that the entire spec has to lean on to work
faint harness
There were some datamined artifact traits for other classes during last build
Might be legendary effects
Since they said they will bring back some traits
As legendary effects etc
rocky ruin
Or legendary item could come back as a effect
faint harness
ye old trinkets, old legendaries, old set bonuses seems to be something they look at for the new legendaries
vast forum
there were datamined conduits for soulbinds
something like "every third starsurge deals 50% extra dmg"
so they are class based but we'll see how spec-defining they will be
topaz crown
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
leaden burrow
hey boys, i was thinking, which settings is best for simming a fight like cara mythic ?
opal minnow
you can just do patchwork. you arent there for aoe or cleave damage as sin
leaden burrow
True, but thinking about simming corruption effects, which passive effects might be best for a fight like that and so on. Also, you can do a bit of aoe cleave with hidden blades and such 😛
leaden burrow
Alright, fair enough
opal minnow
tbh you kill eyes and pump boss and thats about it on that fight
leaden burrow
So which corruptions did you run with ?
strange python
yo guys, what do you think of the x3 nothing personal and vision of perfection
opal minnow
.TA+sever. but that was in like march when corruption was a little more scarce
leaden burrow
i see, is those still what you would recommend ? - Havent run with 3x NP but i dont see why it should be a bad option
leaden burrow
FeelsWeirdMan, 473 with 76k simmed. Guess you havent been lucky with corruption huh ? xD if you're running 3x NP i could see vision being very powerful
strange python
Yea nah my corruption are so bad I'm so mad at it
I don't know, even with raidbots paid, I can't just sim myself trying and everything and getting the best
That's very, very boring for progress in mythic
opal minnow
you also don't have bote which is oof
leaden burrow
yeah
strange python
yea that's why I'm buildind np and vop
leaden burrow
BOTE Is soooo good, its sad
opal minnow
get merc buff
leaden burrow
i just hammered it out with the bot event thingy, idk i dont pvp
strange python
but wich corrupted then
narrow robin
Get botd rank 3
leaden burrow
Ta is good
strange python
I'll try hard botd then
narrow robin
Botd rank 3 is a pretty big upgrade for a minor essence
strange python
and so you run what as major ?
opal minnow
clf or bote usually
narrow robin
And minors I think I run botd focusing Iris and lucid dreams
You can run c&s minor instead
narrow robin
Multi-dot everything or switch to outlaw and prosper
faint harness
you shouldnt deal with adds as assasination
faint harness
if you desperately need add dmg then outlaw is better
strange python
yea okay fine
narrow robin
Even tunneling you'd still multi-dot bc venomous wounds
leaden burrow
i ran with crimson tempest i think on vex, did a good amount
crimson palm
Those adds don't live long enough to be worth of a rupture
faint harness
unless ur a sin one-trick, why not just swap to the superior cleave spec if its needed
leaden burrow
tbf i cant remember if i did, i just remember i did a good amount of add damage
crimson palm
And you lost a much greater amount of boss damage
leaden burrow
yeah i guess so
crimson palm
Which is the only thing that matters on Vexi
leaden burrow
imma check my logs
faint harness
unless ur guild struggles with adds
crimson palm
i mean 4 months into the patch...
narrow robin
Trust in the poison bomb
leaden burrow
yea
faint harness
even on hivemind, hidden blades might even be a better option than CT
leaden burrow
You are probably right
crimson palm
hidden blade is bonkers if you have a blood dk to grip
bote -> fok is the best feeling u can probably get XD
leaden burrow
True, well how does hidden blades 100% work. i get every 2 secs you get 20% increased damage. But does it reset with every fan of knifes ? cuz then you cant really spam it? or is it still viable ?
leaden burrow
I see. Cool
leaden burrow
yeah yeah, cuz you have like 20 stacks there xD
crimson palm
but this is for padding purposes only
faint harness
yes, you build it up for the drone spawns
strange python
just a little question, what are the best corrupt with triple double dose
leaden burrow
Infinite stars
leaden burrow
depending on how fast the fight is
strange python
well 5 minutes boss overall
leaden burrow
i would still say IS
faint harness
infinite stars is only good on a few fights
leaden burrow
yeah
strange python
okay fine
leaden burrow
IS if there isnt many adds i guess
leaden burrow
Maut is monka though. if you have too much IS xD
opal minnow
pay a hpal for sac
leaden burrow
xD
rose aspen
yo, guys, as far as i know empowered garrote from subterfuge can be overwritten by normal garrote, so it's important not to do this. I was thinking this mechanics works both ways: so i thought for example if i land a normal garrote and at 8secs left from it's duration i do vanish + empowered garrote i will get full duration empowered garrote + 8secs of pandemic which is empowered also. But in sim details i see that vanish is used almost at the start to prolong duration of first empowered garrote, it's a bit confusing
leaden burrow
If you can prolong the empowered i would say do that ?
otherwise yeah its worth it to vanish to get an empowered garrote from a normal
crimson palm
link that sim details
cobalt pelican
you don't double garrote at the start without shrouded, so you can vanish any time during pandemic and you don't lose any garrote time
crimson palm
because you let the first garrote finish and then vanish for new 23s
shrewd night
inb4 ma sim
leaden burrow
monkaS @shrewd night xD
rose aspen
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gypVmt1zfVuVU2urQkVWBo
here it can be seen - vanish used to prolong first garrote
opal minnow
they're both empowered
opal minnow
it just refreshed it during pandemic.
rose aspen
in case of updating normal garrote, not the empowered one i will get +8seconds of empowered for free
raven mica
You’ll end up doing that on ur 2nd vanish, not ur opener vanish
rose aspen
so the damage gain is not worth it to delay vanish on start?
raven mica
You can have 6 seconds left on an unempowered and then vanish and get the fully pandemic’d empowered
cobalt pelican
first garrote: 12.6 sec empowered, second garrote 23.4 empowered
if you're single garroting
delaying just changes it from 12.6/23.4
to 18/18
which is the same amount of time
this only changes when you start using 2x garrotes in vanish with shrouded
raven mica
Which is when you start delaying
rose aspen
@cobalt pelican i will get 18\18 if i vanish on 0seconds of first garrote, but if i land a normal garrote after the first(from stealth), and at the start of pandemic period i vanish and update it - it will be 18/23.4?
it feels like holding vanish for 18secs for having empowered pandemic is worth it, but i guess i'm wrong with this assumption..
raven mica
Ur delaying vanish
cobalt pelican
oh, i see, if the question is 'is it worth spending garrote energy, and delaying vanish by ~18 seconds for 5.4 seconds of empowered garrote
raven mica
By 12 seconds
cobalt pelican
the answer is no
raven mica
Or 18 if you wait for the nobuffed to be emp
Also you lose any chance of syncing the 2
opal minnow
you get the extra empowered time from the pandemic refresh of the first garrote
just like you would from overriding a normal one.
crimson palm
it actually might be worth doing it for a very small dps gain
cobalt pelican
you'd have to like, normal garrote at 18, wait garrote cd, vanish and reapply for what you're wanting
raven mica
Holy shit I’m butchering my words I’m tired ok
cobalt pelican
big douibt
crimson palm
since vendetta is desynced anyway
cobalt pelican
garrote energy cost is extortionate
vendetta is synced with the v start of emp garrote the way it is now
the way he's suggesting you would spend DOUBLE garrote energy costs and lose that minor sync for 5.4 seconds of subterfuge only garrote
i can probably check
but it seems very unlikely to be even close to worth
cobalt pelican
not really
crimson palm
you're not casting an extra one out
shrewd night
@raven mica It ok bb 
cobalt pelican
wait 18s to fall
apply 18s garrote
and immediately pandemic empowered
if you want to wait till regular pandemic
to refresh again
you're waiting like
40 seconds
cobalt pelican
then it's just 5.4 sec empowered garrote vs some of the garrote being inside vend
so it'd probably be minus, but less so, till you try it on any non-5min fight time
then it'd be a big loser
cobalt pelican
kinda curious on that though for general real world use cause i'm not sure how much the subterfuge is worth vs vend overlap on the 2nd cast
crimson palm
do you overlap vendetta tho?
cobalt pelican
without shrouded yeah
you vanish at like
13 seconds into the fight
so your 2nd vend has ~7 seconds
crimson palm
first cast with that build is around 04 with vanish at like 13?
cobalt pelican
of garrote inside vend
rose aspen
i haven't take into account desync with vendetta, so y, now I feel like I loosing more
crimson palm
subt boost is bigger than the vendetta boost
cobalt pelican
you'll lose a lot more if you lose a cast at the end of the fight
crimson palm
^
cobalt pelican
i think it's interesting to check out i guess but
unless you know your fight length very well
just stick to sim usage
dark token
https://i.imgur.com/8up9DBD.png is there a cap on crit with bote, this is without my rank 4 deadly momentum or unstable flames stacks
shrewd night
Theoreticly speaking the cap would be 100% - whatever crit bote gives you
night vale
Crit is still my highest simming stat and I have 56% base crit with blood of the enemy major
If that helps you at all
subtle tundra
i guess its cause you have a fuckload of severe => 1 point of crit is actually more than 1 point
celest ibex
Question: if i already have 2 tentacled dagger and i got a pants with the same corruption dose it stack damage or spawn more of em like will my tent tick for 30k per second ?
cobalt pelican
stack dam
celest ibex
@cobalt pelican soo would it be a smart choice for me to equip them double daggers
- the pants or aim for a diffrent corruption aka gushing wounds
cobalt pelican
depends on what you have
usually ta8 isn't the play but i mean
if you have nothing else
use the simumalator
opal minnow
I used TA6 for a while. i you dont mind having a 10-15k variance on each pull its fine
pseudo hamlet
I'm not expert but I think it'd be wise to sim yourself... Though I think that the more different corruptions you have, the less probability of having different outcomes(I mean your damage will be more proc-dependant).
Yeah, I meant the variances.
celest ibex
What do u guys uaually sim ur selfs under ? Patchwerk ?
pseudo hamlet
Patchwerk 5 min, but it's just default.
celest ibex
There is no other advanced steps that some of u guys use that i might not be aware of yet
opal minnow
i change food+pot
pseudo hamlet
The most advanced step I've done is my personal prefference... and I changed my Azshara 445ilvl trinket to 460ilvl Vita, though azshara simmed like 500 DPS more. Why? Because I hated standing in one place(during the casting time), and the environment during the boss fight is completely different than during "patchwerk" fights.
faint harness
vita has value that isnt showed in sims
celest ibex
My sims always favor my 465 dice over my 460 Vita
vestal dagger
I’ve been playing ta6 and expedient4 for a while. You can still do ok damage with no tentacle procs, but when they all decide to proc it’s pretty huge. Just don’t count on it
past venture
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/crdxbe3TcQZtbLPNjWvDYD hi i can ask if this build is good or it is better to have a build with shrouded azerite. And where do you put this azerite?
strange python
Hey Guys! Is blood of the enemy really best for ST and MT?
actually i mind to farm it but dunno if its worth
steep obsidian
umm it might not sim the best for everyone but its reliable burst damage
its worth farming
strange python
you even run it in m+?
royal lantern
its BiS for assassination m+
steep obsidian
unfortnately you missed the comp stomp brawl a few weeks ago which is the fastest way to get it 😦
but its not too bad to grind if you just do it gradually
royal lantern
do daily wins and you get it pretty fast
strange python
ok i realised there are only 5k missing on my DH for Blood Rang 3 🙂
grim trellis
are you not supposed to refresh bleeds during Toxic Blade? or have better management somehow so you don't run into that issue
lofty bone
Are you guys using dungeon slice to sim for m+ or patchwork with multiple targets?
prisma perch
@opal minnow you did not incorporate my trinket
royal lantern
@grim trellis you dont want too refresh bleeds during tb cus you want too maximise the envenom/mutilate cast
ofc if they run out you refresh them cus dropping bleeds is WAY worse
but that shouldnt happen if you do it right and plan somewhat ahead
grim trellis
perfect. thank you
slate shore
Hello, i want to learn how to play assa, there is any guide about rotation skill? 🙂
keen dome
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
keen dome
wohead got a pretty detailed Action Priority List, this was my go-to when learning the spec
slate shore
thx
hollow mantle
prisma perch
My warcraft log app doesnt work i have the electron uploader but get the error message...
little cedar
@hollow mantle try to make the EP raid essencet o rank 3
sour glade
After seeing somebody suggest it here I actually run breath of the dying major over BotE in m+. For me it's a lot more fun to have the button to hit more often and I get 6k+ DPS just out of the reaping flames.
little crow
using dungeon slice for m+ sims is alright as assa or rather use a different setup? 
little cedar
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tiJcXU3WT24DvwyKbA31xy @hollow mantle idk man i tried this
1k more xD
u should try to kill carapace in hc mode and get 2 daggers from there
zinc coyote
@little crow afaik the dslice sim doesnt factor restealths so idt it is to great for sin sims
quasi pewter
it does restealth but it still plays like garbage
tall peak
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fnb4TWwyGSnhGsf27LJSae i feel like i'm doing somthing wrong stat wise or azerite wise at 475.
sour glade
My 473 rogue is only 82k sim with exped 3, gushing wound, tendies 4 on 470 cara daggers and a severe 3. Honestly it's just hard to get a high sim on sin without a bunch of expedient or stars.
tall peak
i was confused about that, fuckin stars man
tardy hearth
How do you solo mythic guldans last phase with the parasites melting my face?
swift sparrow
bring your friends 😛
sour glade
@vast forum mind linking your sim? I'd love to see what you're rocking.
vast forum
not sure if shoulder is counted as 490 cuz i didn't have the traits selected it was still in bags
patent topaz
mastery stacking casino build, might be hit or miss
rancid bobcat
on a pure ST fight it looks fun
late tusk
vast forum
it's not mastery stacking @patent topaz i just happen to have honed mind pieces because everything else i get is echoing void, surging vitality and avoidant
also, as you might notice, i have all crit gems 😄
patent topaz
want my surging vitality pieces? 😄
patent topaz
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pPpzLrvmzwLyvundaif2uC need better azerite mainly
vast forum
i want my 2nd cara dagger 🙂
surreal bolt
Is mythic Cenarius not soloable? He keeps despawning? Not sin related so sorry but I’m trying to get those shoulders off last boss
rancid bobcat
i need a 1st
i could prob hit 100k
if i simmed 59 corruption
maybe not 100k
maybe
prisma perch
I need hard help because I suck hard! I am Derias : https://de.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zftyr4QKxHnbRV1a/
tall quail
what's the best way to get rank 3 bote and is the mercenary mode i hear about still in the game? can't find out any info on it
i play horde
clear turtle
patent topaz
@prisma perch looks like you need to read a guide for basics. You dont tb in your opener. You dont tb / vanish in your vendetta windows. Wasting cps, low envenom /ep uptime.
patent topaz
looks the same in all fights I checked
rancid bobcat
seems like you know what to fix then
patent topaz
you can practice on a dummy to get muscle memory down
prisma perch
2x muti rupt. 1x muti 1x garrote vendetta vanish trinket TB envenom
patent topaz
its also wrong
prisma perch
i read it like this on icy
i only did trinket bcs i got told i should instead of tb
patent topaz
drest doesnt benefit from vanish crit increase
small narwhal
hey guys how do you use BoTe in single target ? do i use before vendetta in the opener?
patent topaz
is your opener
prisma perch
i did this on puppet the dmg is lower for me
patent topaz
you are using essence, trinket and tb for your vanish crit window
which is essentially wasting all of it
prisma perch
there is no opener with essence or trinkets on the site
patent topaz
you should use it after you get rupture and garrote up before vendetta
same with the trinket
patent topaz
the picture I linked using essence and trinket after garrote and before vendetta
prisma perch
after garotte AND muti ?
prisma perch
before muti but after garotte?
patent topaz
yes
small narwhal
when the essence is coming back off cd during fight do you use it immediately or do you save it for vanish and vendetta?
prisma perch
trinkets on cd too?
patent topaz
if the boss is going to be <20% within 30 sec then you hold for that
trinket on cd as well
its not a good raiding trinket
prisma perch
a question... if u have rapture running out and u used a tb what is the priority envenom or refresh
patent topaz
you refresh but you can mostly play so that you dont have to refresh during tb
prisma perch
I dont get the energy managment.. i know only to use tb on 120 energy
patent topaz
just use it on cd
prisma perch
really?
patent topaz
you try to pool before it comes off cd
prisma perch
even if low energy?
prisma perch
man i would like someone to see me live at puppets
patent topaz
thats pretty bad
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
patent topaz
I use afenar myself
prisma perch
I am using one
patent topaz
should show you cooldowns and bleed durations
patent topaz
I use plater for nameplates personally. But flyplatebuffs should show bleeds well enough
but on bosses I track stuff on weak auras not on nameplates, unless it is multi target
prisma perch
only works on my druid
strange python
Hey, my friend switched from outlaw to assa and my question is, what are his main stats?
for pve
warped vigil
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
pseudo hamlet
Ignore the corruption which will be immediately cleansed - it's good alternative for the -> "attack from behind" ring? Or shall I still be trying to farm it?
fluid phoenix
finally got my item level to 440, is that any good for someone whos just gotten into the game?
pseudo hamlet
Welp, sims tells it'll be up ~80% of the time.
fluid phoenix
jesus christ
faint harness
445 is normal raid loot
pseudo hamlet
Well, not gonna waste my mementos on it... it has it's own socket. Not gonna focus on the junkyard for now, just maybe once a week(like it was!)
faint harness
I cant get the ring combo
My current rings has corruption
So its like, not a gain unless they roll similar corruption
Unfortunate
pseudo hamlet
Or you get another items with the better/the same corruption as your ring, so you could replace it ;P
faint harness
Gonna wear them all in the end
vast forum
@fluid phoenix 440 is fine if you just started playing, but it's far from good
honest basin
Has anyone encountered an issue where Warcraft Logs Uploader gets stuck at "Reading Combat Log - 0%" ? If yes, what's the solution ? Can't seem to get it to work, but it usually does work ...
dull osprey
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jEPqzkc86cDWRHfT5NpVQE
What am I looking for to improve? Raid lead wants everyone below 40 corruption so we don't get hit from TFB during progression, hence the lower corruption
I feel like something is not right to be at the ilvl and not 2-3k more than where I am now
dull osprey
I just now maxed out my visions tree so I can start socketing things. All of those sockets are from random drops 😅
jade hinge
Is the wowhead guide for openers up to date?
queen kayak
Is the choice between MA and sub soley gear based when it comes to raiding? New rogue here
solar flicker
Started simming better for me yesterday after I got my 3rd DD
And the change feels terrible lol
vast forum
@dull osprey have you simmed other wep enchant combos/subterfuge?
also yea your trinkets are ass
you could try to farm mechagon ring set
dull osprey
I was looking at the hero damage charts and showed both of my trinkets as at least top 7. I haven't done the other suggestions
cobalt pelican
there's basically only like
9 trinkets or something that aren't very obviously aoe ones
so top 7 is kinda..
dull osprey
I know harlans isn't the greatest, but lustrous is top 3 lol
quasi pewter
harlans is pretty good
your trinkets are definitely not "ass"
ur stuff is just not that great in general
like few sockets
"low" ilvl
dull osprey
gotcha. Just keep grinding m+
quasi pewter
yea you just need mythic raid gear to improve
cobalt pelican
and do your dailies
quasi pewter
or m+ luck
cobalt pelican
coral is definitely worth going and farming though
even if it is a bit jank on some bosses
dull osprey
My guild is only 2 mythic bosses in and prob not going much further.... a lot of our team is.. uh.... not the most focus
focused*
quasi pewter
coral isnt even that big an upgrade
cobalt pelican
it'll likely be bigger when you adjust pot
since he's not geared enough to be using focused resolve
but yeah
it's not insane but it's definitely something to have
especially at 2/12
plenty of room for using
quasi pewter
still not huge but yea it takes like 20 mins with a decent grp for an ashvane run
cobalt pelican
i actually really want a 475 plumage from my cache now
why do i get plumages galore when they're unusable in tep
crimson palm
You can get the pvp one 😂
dull osprey
Oh I've also not played around with exang build. I've been just cookie cutter playing with TB lol
crystal vault
got 475 plumage but not a single expidient 😂
quasi pewter
exsang build is propably not something thats gonna be good with ur gear
dull osprey
What is it dependent on?
dull osprey
nice dude
quasi pewter
well you want 3ss traits on high ilvl azerites for a start
dull osprey
gotcha
drifting cloud
if you havent killed mythic carapace probably not worth thinking about
unless you hate dd
dull osprey
I don't mind DD, its just boring
quasi pewter
exsang is definitely more fun to play
imo.
but your gear doesnt allow it unfortunately
drifting cloud
hmm I forgot to sim vop major
dull osprey
rip
drifting light
I mean, its just clicking the same amount of buttons but in a different way. You have to plan for exsanguinate as much as you have to plan for toxic blade honestly
dull osprey
ultimately, I suppose my current damage is fine for my guild's current progression. I just like squeezing more damage out of my gear/gameplay
crimson palm
No you don't
solar flicker
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hqewhD77yvD3tdseMQW9XY
At what point will bote sim better than breath? The difference rn is like ~800 dps. Is it because all of my minors are R2?
dark crag
Did somone say plumage?
solar flicker
also the change from sub to MA feels sooo bad
strange python
hey what does blood of the enemy sim so low? i lost like 3k dps from it compared to worldvein
jade hinge
@solar flicker I agree. My azerite thst sim the highest are with MA. No more shrouded suffocation. But it just feels like I'm pulling less dps
hollow robin
is there a posted opener when using SS/Exsang/CLF? Not sure when I should be popping guardian
magic fossil
serene basin
pretty sure if you get some more haste you can get the RNG controlled
''controlled''
serene basin
welp, my bad then lol
shy dust
Outside of stat %
dense blaze
Any of you have experience soling 5 mask visions with one AFK guy/buyer?
static glacier
is it actually of import to never waste TB CPs? wow analyzer seems to be mad at me for doing it, parse was orange but there's room for improvement
e.g I'll hold 5 CPs and pool energy 2-4 secs before TB to fit in 3 envs in window, would I be better off Env then pooling energy for TB off cd?
inner schooner
read here somewhere that a new build is played/can be played something with tripple SS and stacking haste? somebody has more info about it?
drifting cloud
if you dont have loot from mythic carapace its probably not worth it
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uXseaZQjEUDTAzmH9nVRVi looks something like this
inner schooner
are we talkin azerite?
that sounds interesting, atm progressing carapace might look into it how would opener look with it and when would start with CLS?
static glacier
sounds like it'd be good for psychus dmg
drifting cloud
yeah it deletes psychus
short quarry
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
sour wraith
is focused resolve pot good all of a sudden?
opal minnow
only for exang build
quasi pewter
not only for exsang build
strange python
for sub BOTE opener is it gar-mut-rup-ven-tox-bote then go into rotation?
strange python
wwhich essences for ss/echong bles build? jjust have 3x ss, 2x echoing bloaes,1 nothing personal. wanna do a vision now
strange python
got 3x ss 2x echoin blades and 1 nothing personal - is that alright or will i be better with 3x ss / 3x eb?
feral creek
3x 3x is the best
strange python
which is more important for like visions or some m+
alright than lets scrap the 7. 480 piece rofll
which trait is more important the 3rd ss or the 3rd echoing ?
ss
thx - thats what i got. playing vigor and hidden blades then or what would you do?
also toxic blade
versed mica
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/26q2GX5jjHn39m53EkHzkP
Is it normal for exang to sim the highest with only one SS?
arctic walrus
depends on your other pieces so it can yeah
versed mica
Yeah but, it's one SS, two DD, and three stat increasing traits
I feel like TB would be better with 2 DD but wtf do I know?
bleak spoke
Operation:WeNotExplosives has determined that exsang vop sin is insane in siege of boralus
Was playing with mage and outlaw and trading off combust and vendetta on the horsey doods and they died before the rest of the pack ez
lost slate
If i'm at 5 cp, do i tb -> envenom
or envenom and then tb at 3/4 cp?
opal minnow
don't hold tb for cp.
p sure tb at 5cp isn't a huge loss as long as you're using it asap
lost slate
so i want to "waste" 1 cp right?
opal minnow
pref you'd plan a bit better and tb at 3 or 4
lost slate
my rl is screaming at me cause he tells me im wasting cp but i was pretty sure you wanted to tb at 5/on cd
opal minnow
but if you find yourself in that situation its better to just use it asap
lost slate
alright thats what i thought
so its better to tb at 5 cp, if im already at 5cp than it is to hold it till next envenom
opal minnow
you could also just envenom and tb right away instead of waiting
if you get 2-3 env off during the tb buff you're fine
lost slate
arent I wasting globals building up to the first envenom if I do that?
Wouldnt I need to tb -> mutilate up to 4+ cp then envenom
vs just mutilating up to 4+ then tbing -> envenom
opal minnow
im saying if you're at 5cp you can envenom to be at 0, then tb to get to 1-2
mut ti 4 and env again
instead of holding a tb cast
strange python
does he literally scream at you
lost slate
Yeah i understand what youre s aying
but im just saying if I do that isnt it better to mutilate then tb -> env instead of tb -> mutilate -> env?
scarlet sequoia
its fine to tb on 5 cp yes
lost slate
Ok sweet
lost slate
@strange python no he doesnt literally scream at me
desert pelican
Im personally using tb on 5 cp if this is before cds like bote, dont know its waste or not -_-
Even in m+ with gimped haste as fck, not starving on energy
Just dont like to lose sweet 170k env in bote window ;)
vestal dagger
@last gyro I like that build on Wrathion, but it sims lower for me in general.
hasty fiber
Is extanguinate the new play?
zinc zealot
What do u guys think of running manifesto of madness(nzoth trinket) in mythic+. It seems to be simming really well for AOE atm.
patent topaz
havent heard of anyone using an int trinket
last gyro
@vestal dagger thanks for the answer tho. I thought it might synergies very well.
raw shadow
I think manifesto can be really strong
it sounds silly but crit/vers are just so powerful compared to any other stat for assasination m+, and we don't really have any other on use crit options
you're losing agility, sure
but agility sims EXTREMELY low in all scenarios for assas right now anyway
especially aoe
lines up with blood of the enemy too, which is unheard of of pretty much any trinket this tier
@marble hemlock thoughts?
It's actually simming the highest of any trinket for aoe scenarios
cobalt pelican
it sims with kinda good usage though, like you get full value on the crit and 5 ally value on the vers
and while agility isn't very good it's a lot of agility to pass up
could be interesting, though
raw shadow
yea admittedly the sim pads the usage somewhat, but you'd be using it with blood ideally and by that point you already have a 10 yard range cause you're spamming fan anyway
so wouldnt be that hard to minxmax/play around
fervent jasper
@raw shadow vers>mastery for m+? Even with triple SS?
crimson palm
Or just use coral and still get crit value
raw shadow
how is getting 333 crit after a prio target dies and you blood expires comparable to getting 1.4k crit in your blood of the enemy burst window @crimson palm
crimson palm
Your m+ dmg doesn't come from a single window
raw shadow
i didnt say it did
crimson palm
You get regular restealths between packa amped up by crit from previous
That's constant crit
raw shadow
coral loses so much value by 1. only giving you the crit after your burst window expires and 2. moving between pulls means you lose like half the duration
i mean sure you can use coral and have an average of like 200-300 extra crit throughout a dungeon
or you can have 1.4k crit burst windows when crit is meaningful (ie during blood window)
zinc zealot
if u want consistent crit through out a dungeon i'd say run dead eye spyglass.
raw shadow
lets not forget also that after the crit expires you get an equal amount of that crit as versatility, which is also very strong
all coral is gaining is agi, and agi is dogshit anyway
crimson palm
Back up your claims with logs
crimson palm
You are claiming you get more value with manifesto compared to coral
And you are not showing numbers here
raw shadow
yeah let me just whip out a log of a rogue using manifesto of madness real quick
crimson palm
And there is a reason for that
raw shadow
yes, because it's an intellect trinket and you need a brain the size of a small town to think of using it in the first place
desert pelican
@raw shadow using my boon in 20+ every single time just for not starving bu energy for openin on any pack + some value in st. Has socketed one, and in air open with 3 g+ ct has no issues with energy for 5 foks in bote window etc
R u rly value manifesto as good trinket for m+?
cobalt pelican
it's like 1.3 crit for 10, 1.3 vers for 10
fervent jasper
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
desert pelican
How low is u crit for 1st part if u surrounded by u 2 melees + tank + heal?
fervent jasper
Can we sim this for m+ to get a final answer?
raw shadow
spamming fan
so no one is in range of you
it sims higher @fervent jasper
already simmed it
desert pelican
Hard to perform i think ;)
raw shadow
i dont think its too bad to perform
only issue is if you need to come melee for a kick or something
cobalt pelican
if you have the sims to hand can you rerun a manifesto set and a non-manifesto set with like
raw shadow
how would you be overcapping crit
cobalt pelican
bfa.manifesto_allies_end=4```in the custom apl
i'm too lazy to add the string to my own gear
raw shadow
if you have 45% baseline, blood gives 25% so the manifesto wouldnt cap you
its not like manifesto gives 30% crit
desert pelican
with my 52% base crit simming higher than vers on 6<t 😉
raw shadow
yeah but you still wouldnt cancel the crit, its so much lost value
remember that
crit during blood window
is valued 25% higher
fervent jasper
@raw shadow how are you simming for m+? Wanna know so i can do it myself. Everyone says dslice is crap for sin
raw shadow
than any other moment in time
strange python
raw shadow
@fervent jasper i sim a variety of different fight durations and numbers of targets, but for a big aoe sim i'd probably do like 10 targets 40 seconds cause that's how something like freehold plays out
desert pelican
idk, seems like it will be higher for special window but lower for overall in m+. like if u need to burst one especiall pack - manifesto should be good if u can stand from 5 yards for p1
but 700 agi u know
scarlet sequoia
ure all just speculating how about u get the trinket and try it
desert pelican
yeah i know
strange python
I respect ur theorycraft but ur status is a yikes ngl rikku
desert pelican
u can use it with racing pulse procs + raden and bote
strange python
Ur discord thing
strange python
Vop major is nice
zenith tiger
desert pelican
@raw shadow how r u feel with 4 gw in setup?;)
strange python
Since vop major sims 800 higher for me in 5 mins and 2k+ on other timings
zinc zealot
lol if only 1 gushing wounds piece would drop
desert pelican
has 475 dagger with gw. swtill simming between them and honed mind one 465 ;D
for m+
cos honed mined gives a bit more for 8+t
still doing more than our unholy in 20-22 ;D
desert pelican
2 days ago wanna try outlaw back again. simming 20% lower in any situation
lol ;D
assa so good now with 3 ss/3 eb
480
raw shadow
yeah its alright
i kinda cba with rogue anymore though
assas in s2/3 did like
fucking disgusting damage
now its just kinda average
rigid mango
corr
rigid mango
Just funny when even outlaw can keep up
raw shadow
ye
rigid mango
Depresso game
desert pelican
its not dh doing damage tough
rigid mango
Just sad that strikethrough could've been so good
desert pelican
its corruptions
raw shadow
assas is just punished by the fact that it doesnt like haste
only good corruption is twilight dev but dev never procs anyway
cause 0 haste
rigid mango
I was really hopeful of a strikethrough stacking 3 ss eb
desert pelican
just build cdamage ones
rigid mango
But it just really can't keep tempo with lash/td
Yes, that's what I just said twice.
rigid mango
It's just a bit sad that assa is a tradeoff spec that still can't keep up
desert pelican
no resets for garrotes etc
rigid mango
Assa feels nutty in ws/kr/siege still
sour glade
@vast forum That's crazy, though it still kinda falls in with what I've seen which is it's harder to get a high sim like that on rogue. My fury war, my buddy's DH, other buddy's enhance sham are all 95k with zero mythic raid ilvl pieces, no razor corals, etc. If I had gear like what you have there on my warrior my sim would be like 110k or something dumb.
rigid mango
I love 3 ss exsang vop minor mega pump
desert pelican
i like how my assa sims higher than any outlaw with tds
cos im didnt has one from start of the 8.3
in any aoe situations
rigid mango
Idk it sims higher and still theoretically beats it, and should practically too on aoe. But the loss on ST from playing 3 traits is significant and the adaptivity of the specs too ofc.
desert pelican
not so loss anyway. im simming like 68- lektrah simming 73
without pots etc
still doing like 80+ in the end of every tyr bosses without much mobing
u know like 2nd ur
but if im simming some outlaw from tank 1-5 they doing like 20% lower than my assa in 4-6t
rigid mango
Rn I feel that rogue in general feels weak
desert pelican
still can tank boss in 20+ if tank wiped for 10 seconds ;D
rigid mango
Defo not godlike lol
desert pelican
mage hunter yes
raw shadow
hunter too
desert pelican
not havos definetely
rigid mango
Wdym defo not havoc
desert pelican
havos only good cos of corrupts
rigid mango
Yea?
But that's the entire game my dude
Hunter good bec of it
Same w mage
Assa isn't as good, because of corruptions
Exact same logic
If assa had any similar scaling it would still be nutty
But it doesn't, so it's not S tier
rigid mango
Yep.
rigid mango
And assa can't scale w haste corr bec haste in m+ 
And there's no stat % that is good enough
Because we have no big stat azerite gains like blaster master or hunter shenanigans
desert pelican
@raw shadow r u using hb from last tier?)
rigid mango
Not even close to what the diff was like prev seasons
raw shadow
ye i like hb
raw shadow
difference is minimal but i prefer hb
desert pelican
dont like ct>?
desert pelican
i know )
rigid mango
Idk if eb scaled off of mastery too, we could've had masterful stacking scaling possibly
And been a blaster spec
But sin is just kinda limp dick
raw shadow
hidden blades feels nice on things like soulbound goliath and yazma
raw shadow
decent on demand burst aoe
i dont really play around it though
its just nice that its there
desert pelican
hm, doesnt mind it as burst on same bosses before
this is not a topic things, but someone know how s assa s scale next expansion? like there is a 3xss right now, is there so hard to gear assa in sl like in bfa?
desert pelican
got u 😭
rigid mango
Alpha rn is mainly about the content not the classes and specs that much
desert pelican
still some class changes like blindside and ambush spam
rigid mango
Aye but nothing huge as of yet
desert pelican
@raw shadow https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bGc5PhFRrSVoxVY2K3UrUB swill simming lower , omg ;D
raw shadow
yeah it sims lower cause of ct synergy with galecallers
if u were running something else it wouldnt be the case
rigid mango
gcb 
desert pelican
I like it ; D
raw shadow
try sim it with a manifesto @desert pelican
desert pelican
No starvings + some st ;)
rigid mango
Ye but coral just does more dmg
rigid mango
I'd rather play like, plumage or something instead
desert pelican
Like when u need burst u got sigle target procs
raw shadow
@rigid mango were you there for the manifesto thing
desert pelican
Single*
raw shadow
or did you get here after that
rigid mango
I havn't been keeping tabs, no.
raw shadow
oh
i was saying earlier
that even though it sounds dumb
i think manifesto could be really legit for sin m+
zinc zealot
@raw shadow thats my manifesto sim atm, really wanna get a drop next week for push week
rigid mango
I mean it's crit or vers right
raw shadow
sims really well, isnt really hard to minmax with 10 yard range
desert pelican
@raw shadow do u skip 1p of manifesto in sims?
raw shadow
na
rigid mango
Honestly unsure of what it does but not shocked by it either
It's like merektha's but perfect for 3 EB stat wise.
raw shadow
all you're losing is agi
rigid mango
Albeit 700 agi is a lot for 3 Eb too
raw shadow
which means fuck all
raw shadow
and you get like 1.4k crit during blood window
rigid mango
Meh honestly I think it's too good to drop
raw shadow
like manifesto sims like
desert pelican
Even when has like5 guys whi can trade it to me ;D
rigid mango
hm I mean I can defo see it
raw shadow
problem with coral is it just loses too much value in so many situations
raw shadow
na no vop
rigid mango
Should try it
raw shadow
just pp c&s and breath
in 2 weeks
i can drop breath
but sitting on 34 corruption atm
raw shadow
pp is pretty giga
rigid mango
VoP minor tho 
rigid mango
Meh UR barely has any abberations tbh
And ur dmg on them is largly just targets you're ignoring for the majority of the pack
Mainly the blobs
So I don't feel that it's worth taking for me anyways
I was shocked when it first came out and it's essentially just the dicks in the ground, the big fat chads and the blobs that are abbs
raw shadow
i dont really value vendetta very strongly as a cd in general
though i think vop is a free like
2% vers right
or something like that
rigid mango
hm maybe