dude i dont wanna sim vop build
#assassination
sullen pagoda
rigid mango
Then get it š
onyx hedge
i already have 8 sims going
rigid mango
VoP 
sullen pagoda
either im a spastic or that shit oversims
onyx hedge
LOL
sullen pagoda
did so garbage when playing it
rigid mango
I hate it honestly
arctic harness
Never simmed high for me, I dunno, wanted to try it but couldnāt get it to work
rigid mango
Just fucking RNG and feels awful to play
Seeing 3 ss exsang spikes though
Got 2 TA procs in bote window on pull with exsang and pulled 340k on opener
sullen pagoda
ye ss build burst is poggiewoggie
arctic harness
Never seen a %haste corruption 
rigid mango
Stopped doing weekly keys over a week ago so can't complain about my gear
Just chilling 
arctic harness
Rng is Nice when it falls your way
sullen pagoda
what do you mean you dont do weekly on 5 characters 
shy dust
Not even your rogue?
sullen pagoda
this corona shit is gonna make me into some full altoholic
shy dust
rigid mango
not even on my rogue.
rigid mango
Last key was like 4th of april or something
Only source of corr I get is from boosting seli in visions
rigid mango
It's some sort of tax aye
Having a boomer in my dms spamming me for boost for a week
doing it at 4am on a tuesday evening
shy dust
Gotta always be ready
rigid mango
Yessir
shy dust
As if you arenāt wide awake at 4 am on a Tuesday
rigid mango
onyx hedge
I presume the reason that haste is not simming higher in this case for htings like enchants and gems is because i dont have enough expidents to make them worth it?
opal minnow
That and you've got honed mind+ta and they skew stats a good bit. TA seems to really like crit/verse based on my own character
idk how true that is for most people though
onyx hedge
Would you say take them off if im trying to sim for exsang with haste? and just use my GW pieces in those slots?
opal minnow
uh
depends on how much you really want to play bleed build
if you do, i'd play around with haste/mastery corruptions or gw
little cedar
guys what are the prio stat for bleed build?
onyx hedge
from what i can hear
and judging that you not running vigor you prob want haste lol
like expident scales of your haste so you want a pretty decent amount of it
grizzled trail
-_- do i need to start building a bleed set. when did this happen? š¦
not ran bleed since uldir
onyx hedge
Its just when you get very specific gear it becomes better so as skaro said you want/have the gear
grizzled trail
is it actually better is the question. i guess bleed would scale better from certain gear
onyx hedge
go for it
opal minnow
Better is relative
but it's possibly the strongest IFF you have the corruption for it
grizzled trail
need to start buying those expediant yay lol
little cedar
mh ye what kind of gear u need? i dont think u need only haste @onyx hedge
opal minnow
expedients/rp typically are the main corruption you need to make it scale better than the non bleed build
onyx hedge
so basically
if you stack expedients from what ik you should only need the baseline haste from your gear ontop of that, it all depends though, i ahve seen people run amny different things
i.e
Heaps of expedients or racing pulses and then has haste on almost every if not all peices and then just goes crit with gems because sims decide he has enough haste
grizzled trail
lol that sim tho
ill stick master assassin atm i guess. will try build towards that tho
bleed is defos more fun to play
shy dust
Why would you stick to master assassin?
Subterfuge is not exclusive to running with shrouded and exsan
Sim between the two talents and see which is better.
grizzled trail
ill stick master assassin cause it sims better for me
shy dust
It is becoming very common for subterfuge to out sim master assassin
dark crag
Superfuge without ss plays so wierd, desyncing vanish and vendetta also doesn't feel good
vast forum
Vanish without ss is an irrelevant cd
dark crag
Not using vanish with superfuge destroys the whole reason to spec it at all
vast forum
Koji did sims and not choosing a talent in that row is a 1.6% dps loss compared to subt
So if you never vanish, or use it for mechanics instead of dps, you don't lose a ton
dark crag
But supterfuge sims better for some with 0 ss over ma
vast forum
Sims better for most
shy dust
Itās more dps so use it
But yes it feels weird
But potential if you can garrote multiple targets
dark crag
So where will the more dps come from when you don't vanish for dps?
dark crag
Vanish without ss is an irrelevant cd
@vast forum
vast forum
I meant not strong enough to warrant syncing with vend
dark crag
Ok thats true
vast forum
I meant to say that if you don't have ss, none of the 3 options in that row are big dps upgrades, and all of them are based on vanish
night vale
On a lot of fights being able to triple garotte boss and adds is kind of nice š even without SS
vast forum
If you can tripple garrote, just run ss 
night vale
Not sure itās worth, like on nzoth for example, can Garotte nzoth and harvesters. But wouldnāt run SS in that fight with my gear set as Iād lose too much single target. I have a wierd gear set though
Like 56% base crit
vast forum
?
3xSS pumps on n'zoth
It's a relatively low uptime fight with good cd timings
The consistent dps of dd is not as strong as the burst of 3x ss
night vale
Yeah im sure it does, Iām conflicted on nzoth atm not sure what to run, I donāt really play DD either
vast forum
What do you run if not dd or ss.
vast forum
that's the weirdest shit i've ever seen and your sim is getting hardcarried by corruption š
night vale
Yep! Itās soooo strange
vast forum
obviously not getting as carried by corruption as raz's sim
but i like your severes š
and 455 coral gang
night vale
Yeah itās pretty fun to play, like almost every mutilate is 4 cp :)
But yeah thatās what Iām running on nzoth... we lack boss dmg so I just have to pop my vendettas on boss rather than psychus, would like to try triple SS to get some dmg off the harvesters and tentacles but will try that on farm. I want some expedient but have 0 pieces š¦
cobalt pelican
kinda learned to hate clockwork heart on nzoth
night vale
How come?
cobalt pelican
the fixed proc timer just doesn't line up very well
cobalt pelican
like you get nothing on 1st burn, then one at 6min after 2nd burn
the 7 min proc lines up with anguish2/paranoia
the 8min proc lines up with paranoia/beams
and 9 min one is after you've gone downstairs
kinda depends a bit when you push but it felt pretty bad
shy dust
Why not run Gorak tuls?
cobalt pelican
š”
shy dust
night vale
Yeah, I noticed that for me too, may try something else. Which sims slightly lower but fits the fight better
Can buy from vendor next week
deft obsidian
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/881MFoubeEsrPZhBSsBKgm Another sneaky r3 acquired...
shrewd night
Imagi e not having expedient tier 10 by now
deft obsidian
Need that re-clear already for daggers/ra'den : /
@shrewd night feels bad man š¦
harsh sphinx
everyone has multiple expedient it seems 
deft obsidian
I get mastery/versa generally, or TD
deft obsidian
Dude...it was my first cache and considering raiding/weekly caches/copious mask runs..
Never seen it drop once
strong canopy
hey, i just started playing again. I have a outlaw Rogue but i try to get into assa. Can i use a 1-hand sword offhand until i get a second dagger?
sullen pagoda
@raven mica just loot some or 
deft obsidian
@sullen pagoda 
raven mica
I got one on my main, I mean my DK
deft obsidian
Other rogue in guild has 4....it breaks my heart
rocky ruin
my sim with nightstalker and subterfuge
raven mica
Gotta be like 30-40% of his damage every fucking pull
deft obsidian
Yeah got elite there last week, says it is beyond easy now
raven mica
Combined with carapace daggers
deft obsidian
He plays combat...huehue
raven mica
Only way you lose is you fight unholy DK of this is 2s
Well still carapace dagger in offhand
sullen pagoda
https://i.imgur.com/gk3HjZ9.png @raven mica does ur dk need my warr weekly 
night vale
Then thereās this guy... now he must slap in pvp https://raider.io/characters/eu/kazzak/Gushniqt
sullen pagoda
too bad i might be getting nzoth mythic wep today on reclear
raven mica
Oh lawdie
arctic harness
That name is well good
arctic harness
He inflicts some serious periods on people. Aināt no saving that with a tampon
harsh sphinx
patent topaz
2 nzoth kills, 0 on ilgy
vast forum
oh
raven mica
My DKās 7/12 and has 1
deft obsidian
I'm gonna assume he's an alt perhaps. Project 12/12 ages
cobalt pelican
i have a 445 gw
vast forum
my bad
cobalt pelican
pretty isnane
rigid mango
He's in project
rigid mango
It's not an alt
harsh sphinx
any stars gamers
rigid mango
he just never killed ilgy afaik
deft obsidian
Alt turned main coz gush 
deft obsidian
Really would like to see his logs haha
pseudo hamlet
This guy got 7x Gushing Wounds? wtf I haven't got single piece of that, and I'm currently with >60 corrupted items.
My DH alt on other hand has 2xGW and like 9 corrupted items in total.
deft obsidian
Currently running 4 chars doing pve/pvp caches and 4 mask runs a week, gush is a myth
raven mica
Oh I should uh
Reforge my sin gear back and stop memeing on sub
Cuz nzoth prog starting
And it might be a yikes on boss damageZ
deft obsidian
Not tried at all this tier but hoping it makes a triumphant return for SL
Yeah I just go full ST and blast bashers/boss, sin at least is a good boss carry
night vale
I played for a few pulls on nzoth to see what the largest evis I could do to the psychus add was
raven mica
Will nzoth be the boss to convince the intlaw one trick to actually play sin on a prog boss
rigid mango
outlaw is better on nzoth 
harsh sphinx
deft obsidian
Our 2nd rogue continues to outlaw which is fine but boss dps will become an issue as we're finally transitioning from secret phase. Perhaps will swap
raven mica
Ghuun and azshara last 2 prog bosses I played sin on
rigid mango
raven mica
I have another rogue that can cover my inting anyways
harsh sphinx
i have 300 outlaw pulls on nzoth and wanted to die afterwards. don't recommend
raven mica
Are you sure thatās outlaw or just nzoth being nzoth
harsh sphinx
both
deft obsidian
I basically just play Drest, just stay top mashing bashers and then boss. Regardless of spec it becomes dreary after a while
sullen pagoda
at this point boss dps is not really problem tbh, people are starting to push it close to 25% before secret phase
ofc prog will be lower but ye
scarlet wing
is truth strong for assa?
opal minnow
we hit like 8% by the last paranoia
sullen pagoda
yeah we swapped MC to 2nd one in last phase
the one u usually have people immune again
opal minnow
we don't even get that one now
sullen pagoda
ok for that we would need to not have people floor
opal minnow
true
sullen pagoda
dont think we killed it once without having a floor pov
scarlet wing
thanks
deft obsidian
@sullen pagoda Yeah we're still in prog but boss was 50% going into secret phase last night. Much work to be done but people playing all sorts of cleave setups i'd imagine.
faint harness
btw did you guys know gushniqt is just an alt
this is his main: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/kazzak/nocnƬ/
7 gws on an alt, insane gear on main, seemsgood
nice rng
cobalt pelican
i still buy into the tinfoil hat theory that characters are seeded for good/bad loot upon creation
put me in the crazy people prison idc
fuck it!!!!!!!
faint harness
given how some other things in this game works its not completely out there
lethal heart
just rolling the dice correctly
faint harness
just checked his other alts
4 gw, double 475 slappers on his DH
altho, 2 of those GWs were boes
harsh sphinx
faint harness
guy is STACKED man
holy crap
4 characters all with like 475+ EQ and bis gear/corruptions
pseudo hamlet
i still buy into the tinfoil hat theory that characters are seeded for good/bad loot upon creation
@cobalt pelican I still think it's about spreading yours opinion about Blizzard on the forums. Since corruption started and I participate in a few threads about corruptions(and saying how blizzard is stupid for putting that system in the game)all my loot were bad.
vestal wren
there are indications that some certain rolls are dependent on your character id
crimson palm
when running bote with exsan, would it be a gain to cast 2x mut after rupture and then bote so you can get 2 envenoms out instead of 1? currently we seem to be doing gar rup gar mut rup exsan bote
it'd be a tradeoff of losing increased crit chance on 1-2 garrote ticks for 1 emp envenom out
pseudo hamlet
@vestal wren can you elaborate about that? I was always wondering if such a thing really exists, because sometimes I got a feeling some roll worked that way.
faint harness
raid mechanics definitely works like that
but only certain ones
the spikes that "randomly" targets ppl on nzoth mythic isnt exactly random
me and another guy soaked up at least 50% of all the dmg they did on every single progress night on nzoth, no exceptions
to the point of me having to play fucking leech poison to not flop over as soon as a healer isnt close to me
yea its some pseudo-random bullshit
vestal wren
in essence blizz does build raids this way:
they take old encounter mechanics that are similar, copy it over and modify them
there are certain mechanics that seemingly take account age into consideration
what means you will get targeted noticably more by those when you have the "oldest" character in the raid
there are numerouse fights where this relation was noticable on wcl.
faint harness
the account age makes sense, im prob one of the oldest ppl in the raid, got an account from 2006/7. Then we recruited a fire mage that has played since wow beta (2005) and he took over the majority of that mechanic after he joined the raids.
narrow comet
aye you might be right on that my account is pretty old
faint harness
ye
this guy is a 1 trick mage
played mage since 2005
my rogue was created 2006/7 too
as 2nd char
vestal wren
i think the id changes with transferes and potential name changes
faint harness
dont think so
vestal wren
but i am not sure
faint harness
there was this old website where you could spy on wow characters
you could track their entire lifespan
from the start
even tho u have changed names multiple times
vestal wren
i think you can just get it from wcl
faint harness
then blizzard changed something in the API and now the website is dead
very useful if you wanted to track down players that claimed they had been in certain guilds
since it showed evrey single guild you've been in since creation
but ive noticed that not all mechanics are like this
vestal wren
spike Tentacles on N'zoth target the person with the lowest player GUID most frequently
and thats how it would play out
vestal wren
i am still unsure if guid changes with name change
faint harness
cant be
vestal wren
as koji did mention name change
faint harness
i have changed names
several times
its the same character since i made it in BC
but its been like all the different races
even nightborne
and had multiple names
vestal wren
possibly
faint harness
so if this theory is correct, name change shouldnt matter
vestal wren
its funny still
faint harness
then this mage joins
and suddenly
and i know for a fact that his character is from 2005
crimson palm
The hunter Kahjo is from vanilla
crimson palm
Think so
faint harness
Maybe its only for like really old characters
Maybe he has his first hunter somewhere else
I have more than 1 rogue for instance
crimson palm
It doesn't make sense
Because the index range would change everytime they do db maintenance
faint harness
Well if its not age, then i dont know, cus this shit happens to me on at least one boss every tier
crimson palm
You would have to hardcode certain parameters which is just dumb
crimson palm
Lazy is random(0, 20)
And pick the guy
This would be a lot of additional effort
š
crimson palm
Again, highly doubt
faint harness
They are true believers of the copy/paste religion
They copy/paste any mechanic/spell they can
onyx hedge
how many ranks of expedient are people starting to try adn go exsang with ?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qhoVj9ZULRaiugr2eowkss I presume its because i don't have enough expedient's to validate the build, and i cant work out why its simming mutilate on gurak tuls as higher purely because with exsang it should prob be simming x3 ss higher
Its alot lower than my noraml build, just wanted to try get it working as i enjoy exsang and playing tb either with MA or subterfuge gets really tiresome
faint harness
71 corr
onyx hedge
i have a reason for that exact corruption
i took some time off because i was burnt out from prog etc, and then came back, my back is 59 resistance currently this week you guys are 71 resistance = 12 resistance less for me and 12 resistance would bring me down to exactly 59 corruption
If someone has premium and is willing to put like 5-10 mins to do me a solid and help out by doing 2-3 sims in the background of whatever they are doing that would be pog
boreal maple
i do believe ilvl on pieces means a great deal on SS no?
u only have HC SS pieces
except goraks
crimson palm
y ur azerite is shit
onyx hedge
I'm 9/12M and have not been lucky with anything from raden
so no shit its terrible
its and off build i have not even considered until now
lol
faint harness
LOOOL
onyx hedge
If you think im playing this in raid your fuckin crazy lol
faint harness
getting defensive over ppl telling you why its not good for you
onyx hedge
Was just seeing if could make something of it
faint harness
dont ask a question you dont want the answer for
boreal maple
why not play it in raid
it bangs š
how big is diffrence for u?
what u sim in normal build
onyx hedge
@faint harness there is a difference between stating the obvious and actually helping
like 90k ish
crimson palm
then why ask in the first place if it's obvious
faint harness
^
onyx hedge
LUL
boreal maple
neck lvls helps alot with clf build aswell
onyx hedge
Its an off build that i just threw together, i was seeing what other people might be coming up with, the question i posted above the sim was that how many expedients people are running when the build starts to perform better, I understand that the azerite specifically the helm is lower ilvl because i have been unlucky with our raden kills and i ahve stated im only 9/12M so there is no way for me to have the chest piece at mythic ilvl
and the gurak tul's is at the higher ilvl
faint harness
it seems to me you already know the answer
onyx hedge
but the question was never about the azerite
faint harness
the gear on the ppl running this build is insane
onyx hedge
as i said i was asking how many expedients people are running for this build to sim higher
boreal maple
dont think there is a set amount expidient that makes it better
faint harness
but there is no set amount of expedients, its just more expedients than what you have currently
boreal maple
i heard ppl have 3-4 and it still dosnt sim better
faint harness
and why does it matter how many it is, its not like you can conjure up a bunch of expedients at will
crimson palm
first u need the azerite
then u need the expedients
and DD will always sim better on u since ur a human
onyx hedge
mmm
faint harness
i have seen like 3 ppl play this build and do well with it, and all 3 have insane gear
cobalt pelican
i'd prolly revisit when you have raden and carapace mythic azerite
onyx hedge
Yeah, its clearly once you have access to specific things that this build provides higher performance, was merely a theoretical question about what other people are finding makes the build strong
cobalt pelican
it'll likely still not be ahead but it's like
there's some upside to having ss over dd anyways
even if it's not your epic best simming set
onyx hedge
yeah i was thnking that, i knew that it was unlikely to be better than what i currently have was just a shot in the dark as i siad
faint harness
gorak tuls/ilgynoth azerite and the other raid azerite + a bunch of expedients, and they seem to pair it with plume trinket
onyx hedge
mmm
cobalt pelican
as soon as the build is anywhere close i'm going to play it anyway cause fuck it
crimson palm
you'll all regret it as soon as you need vop on a fight š
boreal maple
in the start it was only slightly better for be then DD. now its far ahead
and playstyle is 10 times as fun
fuck DD
onyx hedge
yea
crimson palm
kek
onyx hedge
as was stated, judging that im human i think it will be difficult to find this build simming higher without insane gear
crimson palm
there're bosses like ilgynoth that i just cant play without vop
onyx hedge
^
faint harness
@boreal maple feelsmoteman?
boreal maple
y
onyx hedge
lol
crimson palm
i tried it once
cobalt pelican
if i have to pray anyway i might aswell pray on everything
faint harness
@boreal maple ur 1 of the 3 ive seen play it
cobalt pelican
my gear options are like
play blood and ta5
or vop and not ta5
so
you know
cba either way
might aswell embrace the memes
crimson palm
exan feels so nice when you kill right after your window 
i'd go for vop ta5
and pray to jesus every morning
faint harness
its possible to play t8 tendies this week
and be at 59
if you really want to roll the dice
boreal maple
i just wanna get rid of all rng corruptions
grizzled trail
Goin to try Exsanguinate tonight for the lols
boreal maple
fuck i hate IS and tentackle
grizzled trail
Sims lower but whatever
hot snow
So i have a potentially dumb q. Why does my sim want me to run sub instead of master assassin without using shroud?
crimson palm
1 thing I don't understand is how that korean dude Pure is doing it with the tendies
onyx hedge
Lol
faint harness
they probably play around rng
i think its hard to grasp how hardcore these ppl are when it comes to logs
"today its Pures day to log"
"if he has bad tendie rng, just wipe and go again"
onyx hedge
Wtf
toxic timber
haha š
vestal wren
ma scales bad, thats why sub is better
faint harness
i mean ive heard stories of the chinese log games
boreal maple
its just weird. cos i also dont understand why 99.99% of all outlaws are chinese aswell
boreal maple
musclebrah?
vestal wren
well europe/us has a assassination fetish thats why you see a lot of outlaw logs from asia region
faint harness
and they treat this guy as a god
no fuu
we asked this lad why
and legit the only reason
is this streamer
onyx hedge
What hisc twitch?
crimson palm
they dont stream on twitch
vestal wren
i know that china has some people influence whats played and how way more
but that does not mean that eu/na does not like outlaw as much
faint harness
i mean they even asked about talent choices etc, and he just "cus the streamer said its best"
boreal maple
thats true.
for me the weird part is such huge amounts of outlaw. even tho assa performs better.
felt like this entire bfa
vestal wren
on what specific fight?
carmine osprey
Multiple non lethal poisons still a thing on alpha? Ever confirmed as a bug?
faint harness
well yea the asians have played outlaw since forever, not just this tier
crimson palm
assa's better on every fight due to the sheer existence of fire mages this tier
faint harness
i mean theres a reason why top tier pushing guilds run assa rogues over outlaw
if outlaw is so much better they would have been played by the top guilds
vestal wren
not nessecerly
vestal wren
playing in the top end does not mean you always pick the best option
faint harness
they spend like weeks preparing
dont you think they would have used an outlaw
over sin
crimson palm
and the only thing we can compete on is boss dmg
vestal wren
not nessecerly
crimson palm
what's 1 thing that outlaw brings to a fight
faint harness
alright, yes outlaw is better, we're all brainwashed for playing sin during prog
crimson palm
that others cant
vestal wren
you think to black/white
vestal wren
i know it sounds unbeleavable, but top tier raiders are also limited in knowlage š
faint harness
yea individually, but the 5heads that plan out the raid comps and shit knows what every single class does
but Bob the rogue might not want to play outlaw, unlucky ur benched
vestal wren
what sets the top apart is time spend in game and preperation
crimson palm
there's no reason to bring outlaw to any fight in this tier
if you think there is one, we need an argument
faint harness
if rogues didnt have immunity, nobody would pick it this tier
crimson palm
Yeh
boreal maple
assa usually has better dmg for what matters on progress. but i dont understand why the asian ppl dont bring this as much. and prefer to play outlaw, seems off to me how big the difference in amount of outlaws is between the 2
vestal wren
what matters on progress highly depends on the boss fight
boreal maple
yea ofc
faint harness
at no point did any decent guild NEED an outlaw on nzoth for TH dmg
and the other adds are 100% wiffed, useless, the tentacles are a non-issue
vestal wren
at no point did any decent guild NEED assassination on nzoth
i don't understand that argument
faint harness
if you had to choose between outlaw and sin
you would choose sin
cus of the boss dmg
crimson palm
^
no guild needs anything apart from fire mages and bm hunters
if we make that argument
boreal maple
faint harness
why the fuck would you pick someone that does worse ST for adds that other classes take care off
boreal maple
truee
vestal wren
they need at least 1 dh and warrior 
faint harness
like if we didnt have immunity, they would probably just play other classes
crimson palm
toxic timber
at the end of the day, they dont need pure dps specc š
crimson palm
good to have but still not needed š
fire mage will outdps a DH even without the buff
faint harness
rogue aint amazing this tier, but the 1 fact that remains is that assassination rogues does way more ST (on average) than an outlaw rogue and its more valuable on nzoth = simple choice.
crimson palm
dunno what raid dmg would be like
crimson palm
it is a fact though?
faint harness
i mean no offense but as someone that has killed the boss and spent multiple wipes trying to figure out ways to kill it, weighed the options (maybe outlaw for THs). Done the whole thing
I think my opinion > yours
I even played outlaw on it, to try it
cobalt pelican
it's pretty easy to look at a fight and weigh all of its mechanics and damage equally when you've not done it
faint harness
and it wasnt better/worth it
vestal wren
you can argue with koji, if you don't value my opinion 
cobalt pelican
and i've yet to find anyone who isn't using wcl statistics as a basis for knowledge claim that outlaw is objectively better on progress
it's not that i don't value it it's just that there's not really an argument like
faint harness
i can see outlaw being played in guilds with bad cleave dmg, already stated that
cobalt pelican
outlaw will do more damage overall on nzoth
always
but that doesn't make it better
that's where the confusion seems to set in
faint harness
but for most guilds, you have other ways/more efficient ways to deal with THs than going outlaw
aka just have 2 fire mages
and ur basically set
crimson palm
i mean you don't even want to kill the THs early
faint harness
so is it worth it doing 6-7 mil less boss dmg over the entire fight just so i can do 10% of the TH dmg?
Nope
cobalt pelican
the conversation always ends with 'lol its like week 52 you dont need st damage anymore though' but even that doesn't really hold because the guilds s till progressing on nzoth usually have a few dribblers to offset the insane corruption damage they get
faint harness
and ye, we killed the boss with 2 seconds to spare
if we had 2 outlaw rogues
wouldnt have killed it
straight up
grizzled trail
outlaw and assa are both completely viable options on nzoth tbh
cobalt pelican
yeah, they are
faint harness
the real dark horse for nzoth is sub
scarlet sequoia
u can play 2 hand enhance on nzoth and be fine
faint harness
scarlet sequoia
its not really the point
deft obsidian
Of course they are, tonnes of shit for combat to pad
faint harness
there might be this confusion that tentacle dmg matters
those tentacles dies WAAAY too quickly as it is
deft obsidian
Precisely @vestal wren
faint harness
thats different for each guild fuu, said it a 100 times now
if you need cleave dmg, go ahead and play outlaw it will be a good choice
vestal wren
if its diffrent for each guild
how can you make the statement that outlaw is always bad on the fight
faint harness
that has never been the point
cobalt pelican
it's not always bad, it's just way more likely that it's not the choice than it being the choice in an average guild
if you have a thonker you can assess pretty easily if it's worth for you or not
faint harness
looking at the mechanics and adds from the outside, it might seem worth it cus theres cleave almost the entire fight
but when the cleave is essentially pointless
its not useful dmg
why do it
onyx hedge
You guys all CE i presume ? Just curious
faint harness
not all of us
deft obsidian
Come p2 onward, it'll drop value, fire mages are blowing up Harvesters and you just want boss pump
boreal maple
the only time i could argue for outlaw on nzoth is if u have literally no locks or fire mages (mainly mages)
faint harness
we killed it about 1.5 month ago and i went through this whole thought process of needing cleave vs ST
so its not like it wasnt considered
boreal maple
ballers
vestal wren
impossible
fast nacelle
nzoth is pmuch ded
faint harness
its one of the easiest end boss reclears ever
fast nacelle
since rank 15 cloak
vestal wren
one would argue that the power level of each individual is very high atm š
scarlet sequoia
15 man is pushing it
faint harness
yea ok
scarlet sequoia
we wiped a few times doing 2x boost
fathom swift
only cause of necks
faint harness
the nerfs was very harsh as well
scarlet sequoia
nah necks arent an issue at all
faint harness
most recent nerfs
fathom swift
you could its just people would have to really not fuck up p1 getting hit by random shit
vestal wren
btw. fairy i dont base my knowlage on wcl statistics
deft obsidian
Progressing p2/secret and having to rinse repeat p1 all night, the real joy in life
vestal wren
just as it seems there is a missunderstanding
faint harness
Ereb i had to spend all my time in p1
crimson palm
i'd argue that drest's P1 is shittier XD
deft obsidian
My current life @faint harness basher/boss king
faint harness
ye great fun
boreal maple
drest
cobalt pelican
wcl statistics are pretty good
deft obsidian
Drest 2.0
boreal maple
plz remove that boss
scarlet sequoia
drest is free loot now
faint harness
shouldnt have nerfed tentacles on it
crimson palm
how much time do you spend inactive atm>
faint harness
now theres waiting time
deft obsidian
Not recleared yet but yeh, sounds it.
fathom swift
such a shit fight design
faint harness
skitra also shit design
crimson palm
they could easily fix it by adding some sort of timer
only thing i hate is the downtime while waiting
so spawn tentacles sooner after last one dies
faint harness
unreal amounts of shit bosses this tier, its unlike blizzard, i usually enjoy raiding no matter how shit the game itself is
fathom swift
not even a timer just make it so that if every tentacle is dead the next ones spawn in 5s
crimson palm
shad is a snooze fest
fathom swift
nzoth is ok outside of p1, its just underwhelming for a last boss fight
faint harness
nzoth p2 and onwards is a fight ye
crimson palm
they fucked up with the pace of nzoth only
faint harness
p1 is way too long
crimson palm
p1 feels way too slow
faint harness
its like
crimson palm
ye
faint harness
5 minutes
fathom swift
carapace p1 just shouldve been harder and it wouldve been a great boss
crimson palm
more things should be happening
faint harness
carapace tuning was off
fathom swift
its not even tuning its just p1 once you see it 5 times you never ever wipe
faint harness
like i realize that in a 11 boss raid there has to be shit bosses that just flop over, but the amount of that this tier is unreal
its actually 12
crimson palm
i feel like carapace tuning was ok-ish, they should've made the space much smaller during the spreads so you have to optimize every single cm available
and mb 1 more gaze in p1
so you have 3 teams doing gazes
faint harness
already getting bodied by melee healers during that
crimson palm
i gave up on melee uptime
and pad on small adds as a return favor
š
and another issue is that mostly the yellow orbs didn't matter during p1
if they made u manage sanity there it would;ve been harder
faint harness
honestly there shouldnt have been a reset at any point in the fight
vestal wren
i think one of the big issues of the raid was corruption
fights where to easy if your guild managed to farm/buy a relevant amount of it
fathom swift
yeah they clearly underestimated how much it would impact dps
faint harness
at the same time, if you didnt deal this insane dmg a lot of them are unkillable
vestal wren
thats the problem tuning did run into
they hotfixed carapace/nzoth to make it not a fast tier
vestal wren
ye
faint harness
i think they slapped 20% hp on a lot of bosses
i member when limit pulled the boss, wiped and it had more hp
on most of them
fathom swift
i dont even remember them buffing hp but thats pretty funny
vestal wren
^ it was even during progress
faint harness
kinda monkaS being a blizzard employee sitting there
sweating
hoping they dont kill it first pull
fathom swift
dw you can always hit the despawn boss button š
fathom swift
yep for everyone lmao
vestal wren
tbh i miss boss design from mop/legion/wod
i can't say one of the fights of bfa did rly impress me
fathom swift
legion 
vestal wren
sl seems to be legion 2.0 tho
boreal maple
i liked crucible
vestal wren
on a diffrent topic, did anyone with alpha test pickpocketing and the new stealth interaction?
boreal maple
just too hard for most ppl
vestal wren
crucible has a lot of issues
boreal maple
cabal was so nice because u could literally just see who were bad and died
do good dps while not getting hit
simple yet hard
vestal wren
crucible required you to have a more ideal raid setup
what is a big issue for a lot of guilds
vestal wren
it still made it easier to bring certain classes
faint harness
thats the case all the time
in every single raid
if you can bring all the broken classes ur gonna have an easier time
vestal wren
you kind of needed to be ranged heavy
and raid groups are often melee heavy or at least 50/50
faint harness
i guess it depends on rankings and what ur guilds goal is
but we have 5 melees in total
ever
its our entire bench/roster
5 melees
vestal wren
i think you had 1/3 melees iirc
vestal wren
my gf's more casual guild always struggled to get ranged dps
faint harness
yep
way too many melees
in this game
when ranged is like the only playable role
vestal wren
i think its kind of an issue of wow in general
why do we have more melee specs if melee is not good
faint harness
we have a 25 man roster, our bench on lgynoth was 4 melees
vestal wren
haha ^^
faint harness
1 token DH
crimson palm
we killed ilgy with 6 melees and 2 melee healers
crimson palm
it was š
most of the time we could overlap circles tho so it's not that big of an issue
marble hemlock
uunat was poggies @vestal wren
vestal wren
btw. can we still step to race flag?
i think uunat was the last fight where you exploited that
vestal wren
:/
faint harness
i played ret on uunat, had to rotate the 1 defensive i have and bubbles
vestal wren
i think there was still sth left you could step to, but don't remember what (item/toy)
faint harness
havent heard about anything
marble hemlock
They disabled it yeah
Funny thing is
They disabled it like 2weeks after 8.3 hit
faint harness
sometimes they act in mysterious ways
upper veldt
Guys, how big corruption level should i consider for m+? I know its probably personal preference, but according to your exp?
crimson palm
69
faint harness
i guess it depends on key, no expert on the subject
but 39 in higher keys personally
marble hemlock
dont go above 39. ever.
faint harness
just stack like 8 gws and ur good
upper veldt
Hmmm, cuz i just got tusks with socket and td 3, but my resistance is so low for now ;v
marble hemlock
just gonna copypaste what wrote about it a while ago
Wasting cloak or blind to CC/immune the dmg might bite you in the ass while theyre on cooldown and you wouldve liked to use it on other shit, Kidney is too unreliable, and Vanish is used for DPS
Leaving us with... 3min cloak on-use.
marble hemlock
Some classes can play above 40 because their utility is pmuch never used in a dungeon, but even they have to constantly make the judgement call on when to take it to the face, and it will always stress the healer when theyre not used to it.
And they like to gang up on you, so you might not see a single grand delusion for 10+ minutes, but then you get 3 spawns within 5seconds.
willow pulsar
@marble hemlock How do you think, which azerite gonna be better for m+ , 475 HoD or 480 clockwork heart?
marble hemlock
havnet had the chance to play clockwork heart myself, so cant really say
i just play 3ss3eb at this point
willow pulsar
I don't like to use eb on tyra kr, that's why i am asking
Also my team always ask me to go more single target for bosses on tyra weeks
marble hemlock
can do solid st with that setup tho :p
but yeah, for kr/workshop i usually run hod/np instead of the EB pieces
based on what i have
but i dont have mecha shoulders/chest, so no clockwork stuff for me
willow pulsar
3xSS, 2xCwH, 1xTtK
marble hemlock
id say that hod is probably better, because you never know if your clockwork is gonna coincide with your exsang prio brust in these dungeons
if it does, its great. if it doesnt, its just wasted consistency
i prefer consistency as assa. youre already heavily proc-based due to vita/op procs prior to exsang
willow pulsar
Dudee, i am so bad at exanguinate. I mostly play tb
willow pulsar
Maybe you will help me clafiry some things. As far as i know, i should never delay exang. Which cds so i hold for it?
marble hemlock
cant really "time" the bosspull and the subsequent exsang window around cwh tho
marble hemlock
only exsang you could delay is your 3rd one that you line up with your 2nd bote/vendetta/vanish
nah
im fairly certain it has an internal timer
faint harness
Isnt it at combat start?
marble hemlock
whether that resets on dungeon start or not i dont know
and once it procced once
it will stick to the 1minute timer
faint harness
Alright
marble hemlock
kinda like the storm of the eternal items from azshara
faint harness
Yea
marble hemlock
that could proc at good times and give everyone a nice boost during CDs
or proc exactly between pulls and be entirely wasted (or pull cced mobs and fuck the key ^^)
faint harness
It seems quite insane at 3 stack st tho
willow pulsar
I think it haven't procced out of combat
marble hemlock
i honestly dont know enough about cwh functionality
if it doesnt proc outside of combat it would make it quite a bit better, esp if it just "queues" up the proc outside of combat to then have it immediately on the next pull
psure @gusty kestrel played it a few times, so maybe he can shed some light on it
the tooltip states "while in combat" so it certainly makes sense to not proc outside of it
so yeah, id assume it then queues it up to proc as you get into combat
youd snapshot the haste for sure, and most of your exsanguinated garrotes would still be affected by it as well, since youd drop the exsang on your 4th GCD
(and then your pandemic garrote runs for 10sec)
quasi osprey
Hello Friends
I would really appreciate your feedback as am seriously thinking something wrong with this char, mean while am working to improve and do the visions, and doing mythic+ from the stats weights, i can see that my most important 3 are the lowest, is that correct ?
lean marten
statweight are pretty pointless, get to 460+ and start doing top gear sims with ur best pieces
untold current
you have outlaw traits in your head piece
pseudo hamlet
First of all, you need second dagger.
lean marten
lmao yeah helps if u can mutilate
quasi osprey
i see, no mutilate haha i do fan of knifes as a substitute š
lean marten
literally equipping a 350 ilvl green is prolly better than not using mut
untold current
just respec your head piece to sin traits
tawdry fern
Guys noob question but any WA that tracks stuns such as CS or KS?
warm pecan
@quasi osprey depending on your server you can get a crafted 400 ilvl dagger for between 2k-3k
quasi osprey
yes i found one crafted 400
do you guys use fan of knives to build combo points instead of mutilate and why not ?
faint harness
Its inefficient
Less dmg, less combo points, the question is why would you fok on ste
St
untold current
there is a guide at top that goes over all of that type info
quasi osprey
lol the dagger is like 27k in outland
it's cheaper to learn the talent and max it lol
vestal wren
a rule of thums is that multi target builder are worse then pure st ones
there is a very low chance to get wrong with that
vestal wren
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
vestal wren
wowhead is good
lean marten
Focus on ST rotation then when you're comfortable branch out to AoE imo
ur kinda working backwards
warm pecan
For M+ do you generally run Crimson Tempest or just stick with poison bomb?
sour glade
I use CT in all fortified dungeons, then on tyrannical week I use PB in Workshop, Temple of Seth, Siege, and King's Rest
It's pretty down to personal preference though, neither one is going to change your performance greatly, just how you do trash.
warm pecan
gotcha. AoE is where I mostly fall apart tbh, maybe just need practice
sour glade
You can do really bad damage fast if you don't hit the right buttons in AOE in M+.
If you're running CT, open stealth with g1, g2, g3, CT, FoK, r1, then fan for combos and envenom a prio target, refreshing CT as needed
And use vendetta and/or toxic blade on your prio kill target during those trash packs for big damage too.
warm pecan
I should still be spreading rupture to up to 4 targets, right?
sour glade
Not if you're using CT.
You want 5-6 bleeds going for energy regen, so between the 3 garrotes and CT on everything, you just put the one rupture out I mentioned in the opener above.
Edit: CT doesn't give energy regen, but what I said still applies. You don't rupture a bunch of targets in AOE unless you're not running CT or the fight goes so long your garrotes drop and you're not going to vanish to reapply them.
warm pecan
Gotcha, that makes sense.
Am I doomed to maintain two azerite sets, one for AoE one for boss?
sour glade
If you're going to raid and do M+ then yes.
vapid scarab
CT doesnāt proc venemous wounds fyi
sour glade
Because you need 3x Shrouded Suff and 2-3x Echoing Blades for M+, and for raid you want a bunch of Double Dose and other better ST traits.
warm pecan
Gotcha.
wild kettle
how would you sim for mythic n'zoth
rocky ruin
Could someone help me with my sims
i got Carpace daggers both at 470 and 455 and i could use both of them if i cleanse my mecha ring with deadly momentum and i want to know if it worth or not?
or should i cleanse the racing pulse legs
rocky ruin
@lean marten i dont like stars
lean marten
well u dont have expedients so IS is ur best alternative imo
static acorn
What does my vanish window become with VoP major? I presume just standard tb vanish -> env mut env for master assassin, but dont know subterfuge?
static acorn
Itās mostly I know with vop i was told you donāt sync vanish and vendetta, wasnāt sure if that changed anything, but regardless I donāt know what the subterfuge vanish window is other than Iād assume just garrote everything you can
hollow robin
For the expedient build is there any special usage for exsanguinate, or just use on CD?
urban spire
so uh guys
i have 30% crit 10% haste 46% mast 6% vers (no stat percent corruptions)
i know im doing something horribly wrong
opal minnow
Don't go by stats
Just use top gear in raidbots and do what it says and you should be fine
rose aspen
ashvane coral (even 455 slotted) simed worse than galecaller(475) + harlan dice(475) combo on my rogue, but almost all of the top parsed rogues are using corals, am I missing something?
static acorn
Presumably you need haste so badly that it beats it because of that
That would be my guess anyways
Sometimes itās also just comfort picks of ppl liking using coral (since it doesnāt restrict movement, like worldvein and galecallers)
rose aspen
thats an example: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sB5QVSKPf2vv5Pywc23gNg
in case of haste lack I guess raden trinket would sim higher
static acorn
Yeah Iād guess itās just you value the haste of the galecallers enough to push its value up to even. Expedient helps too so it might just be that cuz points of haste are worth that much more than points of crit
Really could be any number of things at the end of the day but Iād say itās prob either haste being highly valued for you (even if you arenāt haste starved necessarily) or crit having super low value for you, and the reason top parses donāt take it is cuz itās less convenient to use or they just donāt have it
rose aspen
I see, thank you!
drifting cloud
I mean your gcb is 475 with a socket
and its still close
and vita buffs y our raid
so -400 dps but you buff your raid for like 2k and you dont ahve to deal with gcb
take it in a heartbeat
ionic vale
does anyone know if gushing wounds is scaling with mastery?
drifting cloud
no because taht would be broken as fuck
ionic vale
okay thank you!
deft obsidian
But how glorious would it be @drifting cloud š
carmine osprey
Do we know if crippling and numbing still stack on alpha? Is it intended?
sour glade
Stars is dumb af. Even on the fights where it's good I use my expedient 3 that's the same item slot as the stars. Sim is like 2k lower but on average pull I do higher because I'm not just gambling how fast stars will stack.
deft obsidian
Aye, I mean the RNG of Tendys & IS always sim higher but raw % often will pull ahead in theory unless you have god procs
I even tried a high haste + brigand blitz setup for combat IS and I never bothered again ha
opal minnow
I've hand r6 TA for a few weeks now and the amount of variance from pull to pull is annoying to the point im looking to just lose some dps for more consistent damage
deft obsidian
Yeah I run r4 and had pulls on maut with no procs.
mortal zenith
hey guys, i have a question about overwhelming power on mythic nzoth
in sims its our better 3rd ring azerite trait
but with the continuous dmg we take on this boss is it better than unstable flames for example ? i fear that overwhelmiong stacks drop too fast to be interesting
sinful marsh
!ESSENCES
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
sinful marsh
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
sinful marsh
whoops
near magnet
hello , can anyone tell me the full opener with Subterfuge, Bote and Exanguinate for assa rogue?
prime void
Yeah the pins can š
last ingot
A wrist dropped for me with infinite stars rank 3. Does the amount of corruption make it worth it?
prime void
I donāt know; sim it
We donāt know what other gear you have or your resistance or for what content
lone junco
@prime void ayo
prime void
Hi noobe:)
last ingot
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jk72PV7GDK1TXTHe3LzK8u I'm thinking about purifying the belt and boots. (the purif protocol was used for island, didnt change it)
crimson palm
hello , can anyone tell me the full opener with Subterfuge, Bote and Exanguinate for assa rogue?
@near magnet gar rup gar ven mut rup exsan bote
Last rup is max cp
bold yew
existential crisis, if people could help me out
best azerite pieces on each slot, ST speaking, in theory/practice
i'm thinking 3 DDs?
crimson palm
honest needle
is ilgonoth azerite bis for us ?
cobalt pelican
not really no
honest needle
which 1 is
cobalt pelican
bis is pretty hard to determine at this point
probably some tentative list like raden helm/gorak or nzoth shoulders/carapace or vex chest depending on build
they are very functional though, like definitely better than a lot of things you could have from the vendor
wicked anvil
Will Assassination get better with 110+? currently lvl 102 its a pain in the ass a bit / kinda slow
wicked anvil
apm ? actions per minute?
drifting cloud
yes
wicked anvil
my only reference is fury warrior, which is kinda spamming buttons and having high burst
the only thing i miss is the selfheal (for pve at least)
cobalt pelican
spec kinda sucks at leveling
it works but it's definitely not whati 'd call enjoyable
wicked anvil
oh ok, thanks , just thought it was me š
glad needle
Why are people stacking shrouded suffocation in M+? Am I missing something?
loud light
it does a ton of damage and you restealth all the time?
glad needle
oh ok
vast forum
if you have 3ss, press garrote on 3 targets from stealth and go afk and see just how OP it is š
rapid smelt
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
lone junco
@vast forum right. I like the ggg Vanish ggg, afk
remote vale
Is it worth picking up a 475 BOE ring? https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/sargeras/yungpupper Also should I be slotting all haste gems or does primary gem matter?
arctic walrus
sim yourself to see what's best for you
as for buying a boe that's up to you and how deep your wallet is
you can get by with mechagon set if you are down to farm those
remote vale
Having a hard time picking up 15 groups as a sin rogue tbh. I got the gold to spend jus twant to make sure its worth. Any way to sim something I don't have?
arctic walrus
raidbots gear compare
well do you have the correct traits for m+ sin? if not you should probably reforge to outlaw because dd setup doesn't get you far
otherwise, you shouldn't really have a problem unless the groups you're signing up for are stupid and dont know much
remote vale
I was playing outlaw but didnt care for the playstyle and wasnt having much luck for it. Just swapping and getting two daggers, I have been running much better with the same gear. Lot of crit that im trying to swap for haste though
Im missing shrouded suffocation which I know is huge but hopefully I can get a 475 titan piece on reset