assassination

[glacial crypt]

Guy

I love you

[drifting cloud]

youre too biased

[sudden brook]

im curious here okay

[rigid mango]

And the clown show goes on

[vast forum]

demo in a movement fight

[rigid mango]

[marble hemlock]

demo in a movement fight

[drifting cloud]

yeah those 15 demo logs

or whatever it is

[sudden brook]

i mean these guys seem to do well with it?

[drifting cloud]

good stuff

[marble hemlock]

you mean the ones with

17 vision procs

[vast forum]

looking at 99% parses of possibly cheese logs 😄

and rng vision procs

[marble hemlock]

that can AFFORD to play demo

[tropic ocean]

3 demos in top 100 boss dmg on nzoth

o/

[sudden brook]

we can look at 95 as well

[marble hemlock]

in any case

[raven mica]

Look at the 75th

That’s usually the one I use.

[sudden brook]

im just curious why demo is an exception here

[tropic ocean]

cuz much movement

[drifting cloud]

it has 15 logs

[glacial crypt]

Out of how many demo that have killed it?

[drifting cloud]

stop beign an idiot

for no reason

[vast forum]

17 parses

[sudden brook]

does the parse total effect power level?

[tropic ocean]

yes

[drifting cloud]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/24/#boss=2337&metric=bossdps

[marble hemlock]

if youre actually, genuinely, curious, here it goes: nzoth is equal parts cleave (not melee cleave however, because corrupter spawns are random and rarely in melee-range) and destro utterly smacks at that. theyre also really good psychus carries, and do solid enough ST

[tropic ocean]

ofc lol

[drifting cloud]

I guess survival is the best spec on carapace

[fleet anchor]

I mean, I just don't understand this "afford playing Outlaw"
1039 Outlaw parses vs. 651 Assassination parses. Pretty clear those aren't all sandbagging. There are plenty of reasons to play both specs? 😛

[tropic ocean]

filter by kill date

tyvm

[vast forum]

https://gyazo.com/8ce60617ad91cf5019ff9e783e4a9aa5 THEY ARE SO CLOSE, YOU CAN JUST SWAP OUT YOUR DESTRO FOR A SUB ROGUE

[raven mica]

Does the DPS check even matter at this point anymore though.

[tropic ocean]

yes

[raven mica]

Especially for guilds just starting prog now

[fleet anchor]

Are we time travelers?

[tropic ocean]

yes

[marble hemlock]

for guilds progressing, which is what we're talking about? yes.

[raven mica]

Like we’re gonna gain even more corruption resistance

[tropic ocean]

so?

also significantly worse players

lol

[marble hemlock]

guilds that are progressing now, will struggle with the same issues that guilds did 2months ago.

[drifting cloud]

clearly for those guilds it matters because if they were good enough they would have killed the boss by now

[raven mica]

And the check is just going to get easier and easier.

[marble hemlock]

which is, largely, boss-dmg and tentacle cleave

[fleet anchor]

Ok so we only care about WF guilds, in the US, with worse gear, and different tuning, and different corruptions, and different boss HP? I don't understand.

[tropic ocean]

no?

[marble hemlock]

no, we dont koji. we care about guilds progressing the fight.

[tropic ocean]

u compare farm outlaw

vs progress

[iron garnet]

hi is this discord moderated by dev company or independent?

[glacial crypt]

LOL

[vast forum]

moderated by biggest chads in wow

[marble hemlock]

guilds that still need to figure out dps assignments, movement, positioning etc.

[fleet anchor]

I don't think that's really true at all. Outlaw was used on tons of CN/KR first kills...

[marble hemlock]

moderated by biggest chads in wow
@vast forum and zine

[fathom swift]

One of the big reasons more outlaw than assa have nzoth parses is chinese & korean guilds disproportionately public log, and they also disproportionately play outlaw

[tropic ocean]

so? they didnt play efficiently as they have could?

[vast forum]

i remember the last time CN/KR were competitive

[raven mica]

CN/KR are also like all outlaw one tricks

[vast forum]

@marble hemlock true

i forgot zine is a mod here

[marble hemlock]

so does he

[tropic ocean]

and asians are playing outlaw all day

[fleet whale]

why do CN/KR love to play outlaw?

[tropic ocean]

no matter if its worse

they play outlaw in mekkatorque

[vast forum]

he only got mod because while he was raiding with me he had ~20k messages in this discord over the course of 13 minutes

[raven mica]

I played outlaw on mekkatorque...

[rigid mango]

What the fuck is this toxicity

[vast forum]

am i wrong tho @rigid mango ?

[sudden brook]

it seems weirdly inconsistent to me the reasoning at least

[rigid mango]

Not entirely.

[tropic ocean]

yeah same

[marble hemlock]

in what sense guy?

[fleet anchor]

Ok, so their prog kills aren't real?

[tropic ocean]

yes they are

but they just play outlaw all the time

no matter if its better

or worse

[vast forum]

they like it

[fleet anchor]

And US plays Assassination all the time?

So what?

[tropic ocean]

eu/us guilds play whats good on progress

[marble hemlock]

destro absolutely destroys tentacles, so its better to bring over demo which only does st well, in addition to being heavily stationary on a fight that is incredibly harsh on classes like that.

[tropic ocean]

they play outlaw in orgozoa if u remember

even perfecto if i remember correct

[raven mica]

I do not remember this at all.

[sudden brook]

well we said earlier that demo is bad when it does better boss damage because "turret spec" but it seems these people are doing fine with it, but then the fact that there are less demo logs invalidates it, but sin having less logs than outlaw doesnt, but then there is a justification why outlaw has more parses and its because china?

[strange python]

tbf id take eastern outlaws over western sin players

[raven mica]

They played sin on orgo

[sudden brook]

can any reason for outlaw vs sin not be extended to demo vs destro?

[drifting cloud]

15

logs

[raven mica]

I distinctly remember both my guild and the other rogues I knew played sin.

[vast forum]

15 parses is very relevant data 😄

[marble hemlock]

i mean, my argument for more outlaw rogues is that most public logs are not from guilds progressing or having killed the boss recently, but guilds having killed the boss. im fairly certain that when we progressed the boss assa had a huge edge over outlaw in terms of logs available on the boss

[tropic ocean]

@raven mica https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGHT06Gq2Ig

looks outlaw to me

[fleet anchor]

lol Ausr, I think that is a ridiculous argument that somehow the US/EU are god gamers compared to CN/KR or something.

[raven mica]

WF maybe.

[tropic ocean]

not god gamers

[sudden brook]

thats fair i guess

[tropic ocean]

but asians just dont care

havent you realize yet?

[marble hemlock]

at this point youre comparing farmlogs, not logs of guilds that have 1-2kills under their belt. that skews the data for sure

[fleet anchor]

I already addressed this above though but got out-scrolled,

Assassination will be played more because most Rogues played Assassination on every boss this tier and a lot of people are one-tricks. That's the real reason. Which people say as the reason that CN/KR guilds all run Outlaw. So it should be pretty obvious that preference plays more of a part than tuning. 😛

[raven mica]

Talking about raiders around my level to maybe up to the back end of HOF raiders

[vast forum]

https://gyazo.com/3d022f670d6b0f9819b3e638381b7b66 method plays outlaw when it's good

[marble hemlock]

how much/in a meaningful way? i dont know that.

[tropic ocean]

remember when hidden blades was mathematically worse over the other talents in last row?

[vast forum]

method doesn't play outlaw when it's not god 😄

[tropic ocean]

yet chinese koreas play hidden blades in m+ all day

whats the reasoning behind it?

they dont give a shit on anything

[fleet anchor]

And US players play BotE every day 😦

[vast forum]

and win MDIs

i'm surprised no1 in the MDI went beam and just won

[fleet anchor]

Lots of people do things that aren't mathematically optimal

Preference carries a lot of weight

[vast forum]

it doesn't when you're playing for tens of thousands of dollars

[raven mica]

Yoda was playing vigor in MDI

[fleet anchor]

And US/EU has a strong preference for Assassination atm

[rigid mango]

lets not bring bote v iris into fucking

assa

please for the love of fuck

[vast forum]

otherwise they wouldn't be running 3x hunter, but playing their mains

[fleet whale]

if anything it would be BoTE vs Breath

[raven mica]

You only delay the inevitable zine

[fleet whale]

if were talking ST

[tropic ocean]

idk eu/us i just see playing whats good for the progress

[vast forum]

they're doing what's optimal

[glacial crypt]

This is the reason I'm staying awake and I love it

[marble hemlock]

muscle was playing 1 legendary instead of 2 in BRH during MDI semi-finals. clearly MDI players always know whats best, same as WF raiders.

[rigid mango]

I'm not delaying anything I'll shut it down if need be

[glacial crypt]

Argue about Iris and bote please

[fleet anchor]

It's more that people run BotE on ST fights when BotD/CLF are probably mathematically better, but nobody gives a shit about 1% when they are fishing for 30% TA damage 🤣

[vast forum]

quick question for my EU boys: just woke up or still awake from last night @rigid mango @marble hemlock

[tropic ocean]

its not only that

[rigid mango]

Still awake fam

[tropic ocean]

@fleet anchor bote is also very easier to play

[fathom swift]

Yeah people are more comfortable playing assa, but thats prob a better argument to keep playing assa on prog bosses rather than a spec they're not as comfortable with

[marble hemlock]

still awake?

[tropic ocean]

and line up good with cd

[raven mica]

Zine did not go to sleep I can fucking assure you that

[marble hemlock]

you think id get up at 7am

[vast forum]

still awake gang

[rigid mango]

^

[fleet anchor]

BotE is easier to play than CLF? 😛

[tropic ocean]

yes

[fleet anchor]

How?

[rigid mango]

What is a sleep schedule?

[tropic ocean]

cuz with clf u need to watch fight timer

and delay it with vendetta

[glacial crypt]

Still awake @vast forum

[tropic ocean]

with bote u dont need to think

just use it

[vast forum]

bote is about dps burst windows

and overlaps with vendettas

[fathom swift]

Idk clf is pretty easy

[marble hemlock]

bote is better cause most fights are designed around bigboi cooldowns, and vendetta+bote every 2min > clf+vendetta every 6min

[shadow flower]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[vast forum]

CLF is 3 min and doesn't align with anything

[tropic ocean]

and for nzoth particularly isnt bote even better for the push boss phases

[fleet anchor]

Alignment doesn't make it do less damage

It still sims better 😛

[vast forum]

it does to relevant things

[marble hemlock]

its better becuase you can play vision minor and get 4 vendetta+bote windows into p2+p3

[vast forum]

progress bosses aren't target dummies/patchwerks @fleet anchor

[glacial crypt]

I run bote on N'zoth because I find it easier to use than breath

[fleet anchor]

Not talking N'zoth. If you wanna make timing arguments sure

[glacial crypt]

But breath would be the most optimal I believe

[fleet anchor]

But people roll out BotE on Shadhar lol

[marble hemlock]

if this is gonna become a "muh sims" discussion im out

[vast forum]

ppl who play bote on shadhar just CBA respeccing between bosses

i've done it

[marble hemlock]

yeah

[tropic ocean]

pretty much yeah

[vast forum]

and i will keep doing it

[fleet anchor]

Ok, so? that's my point

[fleet whale]

have to respec for drest though

[marble hemlock]

fuck, i have a breath of the dying major ilgy kill

[fleet anchor]

People play what they want

[tropic ocean]

i play 3 ss 3 np on every boss cuz i cba respeccing

[vast forum]

why shorten the fight by 1-2 sec ?

[fleet whale]

for those breath snipes

[marble hemlock]

cause i forgot to respec after dresta

[vast forum]

same @tropic ocean

[fleet anchor]

Preference > all most of the time

[rigid mango]

bote simmed best for me when it was prog

[vast forum]

also true @rigid mango

[fleet anchor]

People play what they have practice with

[tropic ocean]

its not

when u look at top guilds

literally

[strange python]

bote still sims higher for me than botd

[rigid mango]

now shadhar is a pushover so why care

[vast forum]

i play with what i'm feeling

i legit went vop major last week for a few bosses

[fleet anchor]

And a LOT of people in US/EU actually have basically no practice playing Outlaw in raids. And won't ever respec. So that's how it goes.

[rigid mango]

Any feelers

[vast forum]

then HSed out to respec to 3ss 3np for memes

[tropic ocean]

HOW?

[marble hemlock]

it does @tropic ocean , unless you wouldnt consider a guild that consistently failed HoF by 2-5pulls not a topguild

[strange python]

and vop major sims 1k above bote so ye kinda dumb

[fleet anchor]

Just like a lot of CN/KR players won't play Assassination

[tropic ocean]

when i say top guilds

[fleet anchor]

Just how it goes

[tropic ocean]

im talking about top 10

and u can just see they dont play outlaw

unless on cleave fights

why

cuz its worse

and noone of them will care about any sim

and yet they take top rankins

[vast forum]

there's a reason KR/CN can't win shit in wow 😛

[marble hemlock]

most guilds dont have tactics tuesdays and prep what spec everyone is gonna play. they go into the fight, see if they can make dps checks with what they have, and then adjust. maybe do 1-3 class switches beforehand

[vast forum]

KR/CN can't win WF race, MDI or arena

they're simply all busy playing starcraft and lol

all of the good ones at least

[strange python]

isnt that cuz eastern players get the raid 2 days later than NA ppl do?

[marble hemlock]

*winning

not playing

[raven mica]

😯

[marble hemlock]

nah lonewolf

[raven mica]

? CN isn’t Starcraft, CN is dota

[vast forum]

i meant koreans 😛

[fleet anchor]

lol people downplaying CN/KR guilds so hard 😛

[marble hemlock]

the top CN guilds consistently have like 30-50% more pulls on firstkills than the top-eu/na guilds

[vast forum]

but yea CN can't seem to beat OG in TI either

[strange python]

oh wtf

[marble hemlock]

probably cause their rogues always play outlaw instead of assa

[tropic ocean]

and for the very top guilds @fleet anchor they switch spec

[vast forum]

or they're just not as competitive as NA/EU guilds

[tropic ocean]

perfecto play outlaw on vexiona too

[fleet whale]

They got "World first" Garrosh back in SoO, but it didn't really count since their gear drops were of higher ilvl in that region

[rigid mango]

tldr if china played assa they would be world first

[tropic ocean]

they just take whats better for the fight

thats all

[rigid mango]

Any truers

[drifting cloud]

they also wiped over 1k times on avatar and kj

[vast forum]

tldr if CN/KR were actually pushing hard for WF, they'd probably learn assa

[fleet anchor]

I mean Blizzard unfortunately restricts a lot of data about CN guilds because of their API

[marble hemlock]

nah, but theyd kill bosses faster probably :p

[drifting cloud]

still got world 4th or whatever

just raid 16h for a month

[marble hemlock]

do i go to the store now

?

[rigid mango]

yes

[vast forum]

no

[raven mica]

Go to bed

[vast forum]

this is too fun

[raven mica]

Wtf

[rigid mango]

What is there to gain here

[gloomy knoll]

drama funtime

[fathom swift]

We have logs tho, most of them public log

[vast forum]

don't leave us seli

[rigid mango]

I shoulda been asleep hours ago man

[raven mica]

You too zine

[marble hemlock]

yeah but

no one cares about you. people clearly care about me

so theres that

[vast forum]

[raven mica]

Can paryah mute zine for 8h

[tropic ocean]

and even more they dont switch specs they switch complete class

[vast forum]

any truers?

[fleet anchor]

If you guys were serious you'd just reroll BM. Stop playing your non-optimal carry spec. 😉

[tropic ocean]

pieces rogue, practice rogues all going dh for nzoth

instead of outlaw

[rigid mango]

You know I like how getting hate from seli just means love

[marble hemlock]

sure bud

[vast forum]

@fleet anchor maybe i would have if it was known in advance how OP they would be this tier

[marble hemlock]

only cause you dont play outlaw

on nzoth

[sudden brook]

i mean realistically if u wanted to be optimal

[rigid mango]

I don't play anything on nzoth

[sudden brook]

nobody should be playing rogue rn

ud literally all be BM and fire

[marble hemlock]

yeah guy

[raven mica]

Ok I was bout to say, zine does actually play pirate occasionally

[rigid mango]

We've already said this

[vast forum]

i made a fire mage the moment they announced acc wide essences 🙂

[rigid mango]

I've not played outlaw in like, a year

[marble hemlock]

you play "sit on bench and still get boostcut"

[raven mica]

???

[tropic ocean]

without infinite resources u just play the more beneficial spec of your class

[rigid mango]

last time was orgo prog iirc

[marble hemlock]

orgo was the same thing really

[sudden brook]

im just saying to say "lmfao just play dh instead of outlaw its betteR"

[raven mica]

No you play the guild disbando card and get into club camel

[vast forum]

that was fun @rigid mango

[rigid mango]

no

[sudden brook]

like okay go play fire because rogue is dogshit??

[marble hemlock]

outlaw was good if oyu struggled in killing the zoatroids

[sudden brook]

lol

[rigid mango]

it really really relaly

wans't

[tropic ocean]

@sudden brook i didnt say that

i just said what top guilds did

they switch out rogue for outlaw

[rigid mango]

Don't bring me back to nightmares yoppa plealse

I'd like some sleep tonight

[vast forum]

we shared the nightmares dude

[tropic ocean]

they switch out rogue for dh*

[marble hemlock]

if you didnt, ttk assa was way more solid. it still lacked behind in p1 boss-dmg, but was vastly superior in p2 boss-dmg, which is what most guilds wiped to.

[rigid mango]

do u remember the fucking trial rogue

[tropic ocean]

instead of putting him on outlaw

so

[sudden brook]

well theres no reason to even bring a dh

[rigid mango]

[sudden brook]

just bring a mage at that pointn

[tropic ocean]

why did they do it

[sudden brook]

why stop at dh

[tropic ocean]

:^)

[vast forum]

i member

[raven mica]

14 fire mages

[fleet whale]

you need that magic debuff though

[tropic ocean]

u have the magic debuff anyway

[vast forum]

DH tank

[tropic ocean]

but why switch rogue to dh dps

on nzoth

?

[raven mica]

Ok 13 and 1 ADHD sub 50 IQ havoc player

[vast forum]

so the average DH player?

[tropic ocean]

and for nzoth u basically want 2 dh

[glacial crypt]

We have 4

[marble hemlock]

dont need 2DH

[fleet whale]

assassination isn't that much harder than DH

[marble hemlock]

you need 1

[tropic ocean]

not need

but want

[marble hemlock]

you want 1

[vast forum]

@fleet whale sure

[marble hemlock]

you dont really want a second DH, no

[glacial crypt]

I want to keep the 4

[gloomy knoll]

just need 1 for the 14 mages

[tropic ocean]

but why they all play 2 dh

[vast forum]

DH isn't great for n'zoth

[marble hemlock]

you want 1 for mindgate2

[fleet whale]

I mean havoc is really easy to play, but it's not like assassinaiton is hard lol

[marble hemlock]

becuase most guilds have mindgate1 also be carried by mages/warlocks instead of their rogues

cause they all play outlaw

[vast forum]

there's some shade being thrown here

[marble hemlock]

ofc

im a rogue

plenty of shade to go around

and toxicity

cause im assa

[rigid mango]

Defo because of assa

[marble hemlock]

@sudden brook is just salty that the cf color is green, cause its an assa color

[rigid mango]

not just ur shit personality or anything

[fleet whale]

i miss in legion when assassin rogues could have green leters in this discord

[sudden brook]

_>

[marble hemlock]

i mean

[gloomy knoll]

i mean technically you can play whatever spec you want it's not like theres too strict a requirement

[marble hemlock]

was there even any other exsang boi in legion other than slack?

[gloomy knoll]

rogues not every a really good class to begin with right now xD

[raven mica]

Yea dude just reroll BM

[tropic ocean]

lul

[fleet whale]

did that dude quit wow?

[tropic ocean]

rogues are bad

[raven mica]

Actually I might reroll DK

[tropic ocean]

except outlaw

[marble hemlock]

yeah

[gloomy knoll]

outlaws ok

assas ok

[tropic ocean]

outlaw is big

[strange python]

Here we go again

[marble hemlock]

we can afford to have pointless discussions about outlaw vs assa, because our class is kinda meh either way.

[glacial crypt]

Oh god

[vast forum]

outlaw is ok, assa is better

[rigid mango]

https://tenor.com/view/ah-shit-here-we-go-again-ah-shit-cj-gta-gta-san-andreas-gif-13933485

[glacial crypt]

I do want to sleep

[fleet anchor]

My BM Hunter got Mythic bow last week so who cares about this? Play for 2 weeks already pull 85k on Shadhar in the alt Mythic run. Ez game

[glacial crypt]

But if thisbattats again...

[fleet anchor]

😄

[rigid mango]

Literally no one is stopping you

[fleet whale]

rogue is average ish in raids, very good in M+, very good in pvp

[strange python]

Gn guys its 7 am here

[tropic ocean]

average ish in raids

ok

[sudden brook]

it literally is what

[glacial crypt]

This chat being too fun to read is stopping me

[marble hemlock]

rogue is not very good in m+

[sudden brook]

rogue is average rn

[fleet anchor]

BM is a dumb spec lol

[marble hemlock]

not anymore

[sudden brook]

u can talk about how crazy it is on nzoth

but rogue is average

overall

[marble hemlock]

rogue is passable in m+ becuase most groups havent figured out how to use their hunter beyond blasting their cooldowns every 3.7seconds

[sudden brook]

^

[fleet whale]

ok, well they are still good in pvp

[sudden brook]

when ppl stop pretending to care about gouge, ppl will drop rogue

[fleet anchor]

They blast their cooldown every 3.7s because that's how long their cooldown lasts with the current build 🤣

[marble hemlock]

theyll drop outlaw rogues, anyway

[raven mica]

Oh shit here comes the fucking arms main boi

[marble hemlock]

theyll still want the 3eb 3ss, 2x raden weapon assa pumpers

[cobalt gyro]

Tricks is still vastly superior to misdirect, tho

[fleet anchor]

Is it really a cooldown if it's always off cooldown? 🤔

[raven mica]

Odo fuckin wish he had tricks still

[cobalt gyro]

So tol dagor is always a rogue key cos of that

[tropic ocean]

x

[fleet anchor]

Tricks is definitely better than MD because pet damage doesn't redirect

[vast forum]

but hunters don't care about threat

cuz it all goes to their pets

[marble hemlock]

MD works exactly the same way tricks does in TD

[tropic ocean]

u cant md cannons

[vast forum]

MD is only 6 sec tho

[marble hemlock]

so really, thats a bad argument

[tropic ocean]

but it doesnt matter

[raven mica]

MD starts the threat redirect immediately

[tropic ocean]

anyway

[marble hemlock]

made up for by binding

[cobalt gyro]

No it doesn't cause tricks is 2 seperate buffs

[marble hemlock]

you still shoot 2 shots with MD

at which point threat is safe

[fleet whale]

once again this is the worst raid for rogue in a long while, since like high maul, but they are still alright in this raid

[raven mica]

TWO QUICK ONES

[marble hemlock]

unless ofc BM brains cant comprehend hitting the cannon to proc their MD, and then jumping into cannon and getting 2 shots off

which is entirely plausible

[fleet anchor]

Rogues get by on being good players and by reputation of having great survivability (which they don't really) so we're lucky for now that our rep still holds up despite so-so numbers. 😛

[drifting cloud]

I already know im getting there on the perfect line @raven mica

[raven mica]

IVE NEVER EVEN SEEN A 1:13

[drifting cloud]

what a legend

[marble hemlock]

seeing what rogues are currently top-scored

id press doubt on the "good players" part

and with that toxic shade, im gonna go to the store before theres too many people there. i hate people. esp my nemesis @vernal adder

[tropic ocean]

I mean

after a certain amount of score

isnt it only who plays the most/rolls the best keys

?

[marble hemlock]

yes

[vernal adder]

[tropic ocean]

like if i could do keys 16 hours a day with fixed group

im confident i could be 4k rio too

and im pretty shit

[raven mica]

Any rogue after 3k io don’t know how to do M+

[fleet anchor]

lol

I would say that for a lot of guilds

[glacial crypt]

I mean I'm pretty shit and I'm 3.3 rio

[fleet anchor]

Many guilds have a "good Rogue"

That has been in the guild some time

[tropic ocean]

I dont want to shittalk anyone or talk down their skill but

[fleet anchor]

For some reason 😛

[marble hemlock]

and then they have 2 more that play outlaw on nzoth

:^)

[raven mica]

All they knows is tricks tank, hit they BF, TD, eat slobber knocker and die

[tropic ocean]

when i see some of top players they even stream 16hours+ so yeah that clearly helps in pushing score

[fleet anchor]

Hey Seli, if you don't want me to play Outlaw on N'zoth find our guild a Mage so we can have more than 1. I'd appreciate it. 😛

[marble hemlock]

i mean

[tropic ocean]

tell ur bm/dh/warr/warlock to l2p

[marble hemlock]

i dont see why mage is the outlaw equivalent

[tropic ocean]

if they cant bring the cleave

might want to be on bench

[marble hemlock]

if anything, mage is the assa equivalent in terms of basher dmg, psychus dmg, uselessness on everything else

[fleet anchor]

Because Outlaw can actually bring enough cleave on the THs to be relevant to the cast timings.

[marble hemlock]

its the hunters/dk/boomies blasting psychos

[tropic ocean]

but all of the above can do that

[vernal adder]

Heard stores are packed at this time @marble hemlock , enjoy

[marble hemlock]

❤️

[fleet anchor]

100% would not die in time with our comp if I wasn't focused on it

[raven mica]

How the fuck does DK blast psycho

Like I’m legit curious

[marble hemlock]

its saturday, so plenty of swiss people shopping across the border 😦

[raven mica]

If I get fucked by corruption again I’m rerolling

[marble hemlock]

yeah i guess

not having enough destros/mages to blast harvesters

is the only thing i could see outlaw being good for

[fleet anchor]

Mages make me sick this tier

[vernal adder]

[tropic ocean]

@raven mica

https://prnt.sc/s9jkhh

[fleet anchor]

Such a fucking broken class

[tropic ocean]

u tell me how?

[marble hemlock]

just be

psychus-lord

like me

and say "need assa for psychus"

[raven mica]

Wait how the fuck

[fleet anchor]

I mean DKs can just do the BS they do in M+ if you set it up right for Psychus

[raven mica]

If they can’t be in melee range

[tropic ocean]

but u can be in melee range

:^)

[marble hemlock]

playing UH in nya

yikers

[raven mica]

I woulda played frost on that fight anyways. 2 min>8 min

[tropic ocean]

u cc the casts

[marble hemlock]

frost fucking pumps

[tropic ocean]

and then they are ded

[marble hemlock]

people still sleeping on frost-dks like crazy

[drifting cloud]

its because hes staying outisde whole time

you muppet

[marble hemlock]

so does our frost

you think we bring our frost dk into mindgate?

[opal minnow]

frost on psychus with breath is stronk

[tropic ocean]

mindgate is for outlaw

not frost

[marble hemlock]

i was watching flawless play frost-dk on progress

he was in mindgate

he did nothing

he was a mascot

and then pumped CDs on boss instead

couldve stayed out for that

tisu is here, great. he can take over for me.

[drifting cloud]

yeah but that pic ofc the guy is gonna have 8 mil on them

whgen hes out all the time

and they die slower outside

[marble hemlock]

tisu tell us

why outlaw isnt as useful on nzoth as assa

ill be back in 30

cheers

[vernal adder]

[glacial crypt]

Wait how many DPS do you guys have going into psychus 1?

[tropic ocean]

depends on which dps

the less the better

[marble hemlock]

we have 2dps for psychus (mage+me) and then bm, ret, dh

[tropic ocean]

out of range @obsidian jolt ?

not facing the mob

?

[marble hemlock]

cause youre triyng to apply a 2cp rupture on a mob that still has 20sec of rupture left?

[sturdy python]

Sounds more like parry

[gloomy knoll]

don't worry guys

[vernal adder]

Wcl is fake news

[gloomy knoll]

i'll solve this argument

[tropic ocean]

but parry still takes the cp no?

[gloomy knoll]

nzoth = cleave

outlaw = cleave

[marble hemlock]

parry takes your CP

[sturdy python]

It shouldn’t no

[glacial crypt]

Tisu that's literally what I done when we started prog

[gloomy knoll]

assassin = bad at cleave

[sturdy python]

Oh

[gloomy knoll]

gg no redos

[tropic ocean]

im pretty sure it does

[gloomy knoll]

xD

[fervent beacon]

Just go outlaw

[tropic ocean]

if u think nzoth is cleave

[gloomy knoll]

i'm me

iuno ho wto answer that lmao

[tropic ocean]

u might want to turn your raid difficulty from heroic to mythic

[gloomy knoll]

there's ads right

[fleet anchor]

I've got things to do but the argument is pretty simple: play what your raid leader fucking wants you to play based on your gear and skill level and don't worry about it. 😛

[vernal adder]

Put nzoth in the figure 4

[gloomy knoll]

therefore it's cleave

[fervent beacon]

Implying 95% of this discord is even capable of reaching heroic nzoth.

[fleet whale]

Lotus doesn't like assassination

[tropic ocean]

@fleet anchor or tell ur raidleader to l2p

[gloomy knoll]

i ilike assa

and outlaw

and sub

i'm just memeing lol

[sour glade]

Imagine rolling the bones

[fleet anchor]

Hey man, I gotta be careful about how I backchat to the raid leader

[marble hemlock]

the mods will help you out @rigid mango

[fleet anchor]

Don't wanna get benched for a BM Hunter alt 🤣

[vernal adder]

Need to reinstall windows texas

[raven mica]

Or: you play the spec that you prefer because at this point if you’re progging it, your spec is not going to be the make or break except on a .5%

[gloomy knoll]

but dude said it right

[rigid mango]

Fuck off @marble hemlock

[gloomy knoll]

play what your raid needs

[tropic ocean]

I mean generally yes do what your raidleader says obviously but

[gloomy knoll]

fill that role

[marble hemlock]

[gloomy knoll]

and execute properly

[vernal adder]

[tropic ocean]

might as well tell ur raidlead that he should fix all his raiders to play properly when you NEED to switch to outlaw cuz u lack cleave

[raven mica]

And on a .5% there’s a bajillion different other things you could’ve executed properly and gotten the kill on instead of one’s spec

[tropic ocean]

@gusty kestrel nah i dont

[rigid mango]

ah but please why is this starting again

[marble hemlock]

competent raidleaders are rare

[glacial crypt]

I love this

[gloomy knoll]

if ur raid doesn't need you to play anything specific

play what u want

easy 😄

[marble hemlock]

most just log at wclogs, see one spec more often than another, and tell you to do that.

thats exactly not how to approach raiding seriously.

so you play what your raidleader tells you to, and after 1raid you explain to him why hes wasting your potential by telling you to play outlaw.

[tropic ocean]

also need to adapt to your players basically

[marble hemlock]

and suggest respeccing into the better spec

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[tropic ocean]

how does it matter to bring warlocks to nzoth when they do 4% boss dps

🤷

[vast forum]

i love how tisu just turns up like "who the fuck thinks outlaw is better?" 😄

[glacial crypt]

I mean when we started I looked at the fight and thought outlaw looked more fun to play on it, looked at wcl and told me RL I wanted to play it on the fight

[tropic ocean]

just cuz "everyone uses destrolocks"

[fervent beacon]

Guys

[fleet whale]

I always had to have whispers with my RL during nighthold how i couldn't really switch targets on most fights cause of Agonizing poison

[rigid mango]

Tisu saw the statements before this all happened

[glacial crypt]

Now he doesn't want me on assa because the damage xd

[rigid mango]

but dodged this shitshow

for a good reason

[fervent beacon]

Everyone know that outlaw rogue is the best spec.

[fleet whale]

and that i was far more useful sitting on the boss

[tropic ocean]

@glacial crypt overall barely matters in nzoth

[fleet whale]

rather than switching and doing crap add damage

[fervent beacon]

and agonizing poison, my god that was cancer

[tropic ocean]

anyway

[fleet whale]

indeed it was

[fervent beacon]

imagine playing sin and not using a damaging poison.

[fleet anchor]

I'm a very anti one-trick kind of guy though. So I'm pretty open-minded about swapping specs whenever. If I wanted to play one spec and be stuck with it, I'd still be on Feral or Havoc. 😛

[fervent beacon]

feral

[vast forum]

i'm pretty open minded about it too, i just don't think outlaw is as good on n'zoth

[vernal adder]

I thought this was off topic, im tired

[rigid mango]

Laughed about it left

[fleet anchor]

Dude I fucking pumped as Feral in WoD. As much of an uphill battle as it was. lol

[rigid mango]

And left*

good choice

[marble hemlock]

Yes it does tisu

[vast forum]

i played outlaw on orgo and hivemind

[glacial crypt]

I typed and got told off xd

[vast forum]

i don't mind playing outlaw when it's better, it just isn't on n'zoth

[marble hemlock]

Good

[tropic ocean]

i think i'd have switched to outlaw on hivemind and vexiona but

no weapon so

🤷

oh and no azerite too

[vast forum]

i don't think vex is much of an outlaw fight tbh

[marble hemlock]

It's not

[rigid mango]

Fight is literally p3 pump

[tropic ocean]

it really isnt yeahb

[fervent beacon]

Im curious how much dps I did on nzoth compared to the other sin rogue in guild

[tropic ocean]

but we struggled adds in progression

[glacial crypt]

Vex I think assa is better on

[vast forum]

sure, there are adds, but she goes away for quite a while which allows assa CDs to come back up

[tropic ocean]

so i guess it couldve potentially been good

but no gear so who cares

[glacial crypt]

Boss damage is huge there

[marble hemlock]

Vex is a st fight

[vast forum]

1 min phases with 1 min downtime is amazing for assa

[marble hemlock]

Adds die to annihilation

[fleet anchor]

Vex I played Assassination on fwiw 😛

[vast forum]

also, early prog killtimes were perfect for assa

[gloomy knoll]

vex has ads

[tropic ocean]

not for my guild certainly

😄

[gloomy knoll]

therefor also cleave

[rigid mango]

Idk if u think ur funny or what

[fleet anchor]

Vex has very slim AoE requirements though

[rigid mango]

but just stop

[vast forum]

il'gynoth has adds, therefore outlaw

[fleet anchor]

The adds have like no HP

Not really the same as the later fights at all

[gloomy knoll]

i missed most of the conversation

just wanted to join in on the fun 😦

[tropic ocean]

I mean yeah by now they dont matter

[gloomy knoll]

but yeah vex is st yeesh lol

[fleet anchor]

Vex the adds just explode within like 2 seconds nowadays lol

[tropic ocean]

but when I progressed it we didnt manage to kill adds before transition

[fleet anchor]

Yeah but it was ok for adds to be up during intermission anyway though

Not like there was anything else to do

[vast forum]

just kite them? 😄

[tropic ocean]

it wasnt I can assure you

[vast forum]

kill them in the 1 min

[tropic ocean]

when ur raiders cant dodge the breath

[fleet anchor]

haha

[tropic ocean]

dpsing adds during intermission is

too hard

😄

[fervent beacon]

My god, the other sin rogue out beat me by 3m damage

solely because of his IS alone

[fleet anchor]

I could see where that might cause problems Ausr 😉

[tropic ocean]

but at least sin pumps with 3 ss exsang build so i can pad everywhere and pretend to be a good player

10/10 raiding experience

[vast forum]

btw

to derail the conversation a bit

any1 know why OP is a "healing buff" in logs?

[fleet whale]

a lot of haste i guess

[fleet anchor]

Probably just classified wrong. It relies on manual classification

There's some submission form somewhere on the page

[vast forum]

i legit spent ~10 min looking for it in the damage buffs section

thinking i went blind

[rigid mango]

Finish at 4+, yeah

[waxen oasis]

anyone have vision reccomendations for rogue in general

[harsh sphinx]

3xss 3xnp exsang bote

[slim lava]

for what reason we should open with rup b4 garrote?

[balmy condor]

not sure I understand the question

what do you mean "open with rup"

[slim lava]

mutilate till enough cp>rupture then garrote

[balmy condor]

in what opener

[slim lava]

Simple Opener Priority:
If first mut is 4cp: Mut rup mut gar
if first mut is <4cp: Mut mut rup gar mut
Finish both with CLF>Vend>Tb>Vanish or Vend>TB>Bote>Vanish dependant on major essence.

[balmy condor]

yeah

[real solar]

that's if you're running MA

[balmy condor]

^

with master assassin you're going to get more cp if you mut rup mut

[slim lava]

hmm

i get it

[real solar]

mutilate
if you have 4 CP, rupture into another mutilate, then garrote
if you have 2 or 3, mutilate again then rupture

[slim lava]

k

ty ^^

[obtuse perch]

does galecallers work well with the ss build for raids? Seems good on Nzoth?

[scarlet sequoia]

yeah its alright

probably not the move on nzoth tho considering how much you have to move

[crimson palm]

Go for plumage

[manic pebble]

hi I just started playing wow for 3 days

I wanna what's the best opener when you start from stealth

idk if mine is good enough

I've been doing Garrote>rupture>cheapshot

then multilate>kidney shot

[grim trellis]

that sounds like a PvP opener. check #pvp

[manic pebble]

no I only kill mobs xd

just wanna know if there's a better order so I can start practicing my muscle memory

[grim trellis]

well openers depend on a variety of things like your talents and azerite traits. if you have shrouded suff or subterfuge or MA. still check pins or the WoWhead guide/Ravenholdt guide to get a better idea

[scarlet sequoia]

he/she is leveling

[manic pebble]

okay then, thanks for the help 😄

[cobalt pelican]

you probably don't ever need to cheapshot mobs while leveling

just garrote mut rup mut kidney or something if mobs live long enough for bleeds to do something

or even cut the kidney

idk how hard stuff hits at low level anymore

[raven mica]

Inb4 he’s playing classic

[manic pebble]

I do kidney shot for extra dot damage

I have that talent

let me look it up

internal bleeding

[raven mica]

It’s not until you hit endgame content that you need to worry about things like your opener.

[cobalt pelican]

seems fine

[raven mica]

Generally try to finish at 5 combo points though

One combo point rupture doesn’t really

Do anything.

[manic pebble]

I'll try my best

thank you 😄

[toxic knoll]

hey. I'm wondering when im running a dungeon slice sim why 'shrouded suffocation' doesnt sim high at all? is there a reason or is there actually better options as assasination for m+?

[raven mica]

Dslice isn’t optimized for sin I don’t think

[frigid sleet]

Dslice doesn't restealth between packs afaik

[toxic knoll]

ah okay. thanks! 🙂

[cobalt pelican]

it restealths most of the time, but it does miss some (unless changed recently)

shrouded should sim pretty okay in dslice for the most part, but it's not so insane in that fightstyle that you'll do weird shit to your gear to get it

for a number of reasons i guess, missed restealths, short timers on small ad packs, awkward vanish timing etc

[wise bear]

do i go for my top sim?

i have 3 SS and i have 3 DD and 3 NP i can't decide what to play since my sim tells me to use this traits

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hM6BP6j5UcZ3goJZAPxH5Y

also subterfuge sims higher than master assasin

[cobalt pelican]

is something wrong with those traits or something

[wise bear]

im so confused xD

[cobalt pelican]

they seem pretty fine

subterfuge is the go-to talent now

[wise bear]

even without SS trait?

[cobalt pelican]

and you should prolly sim w/o vop minor unless you need vop minor for some specific timing reason

yes

[wise bear]

let me fix some stuff and link u another sim

also do i use formless void 3 as a minor or i use memory?

[cobalt pelican]

lucid is basically never replaced but you don't have it at rank 3 yet

sim works for this kind of thing though, so just put all the junk in you want to check

[wise bear]

formless void is better sim by only 200 so i think lucid is worth keeping

[cobalt pelican]

not really sure how you'd come to the conclusion that +200 is worse than not +200 but i guess that's ok

did you come back to wow/start recently or can you not just buy lucid with echoes of nyalotha?

[wise bear]

i just came back to wow

im 2450/4800 for the lucid 3 😦

[lone junco]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[wise bear]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eN88sUduHefJhdFESBbUe6

@cobalt pelican

this is the best

lucid 2 less by 35 dps

what do u think?

[cobalt pelican]

35 is error margin

i'd probably just play lucid in that case

[wise bear]

cool cool

[cobalt pelican]

agility gem is very unlikely to be worth at this point

and your weapon enchants might not be wrong but might be

[wise bear]

i will sim them now

[cobalt pelican]

and there's 50 stat gems now if you didn't know

quick sand spinel etc

[wise bear]

oh yeah

i will fix more stuff and get back to u

xD

[strange python]

whats the best essences for horrific visions

rn im runnin visions of perfection n purification protocol as minors for it

or should I just go with whatever sims the highest

[scarlet sequoia]

blood of the enemy major

lucid, breath and purification protocol minors

some will say others but ye

any essences work really, its pretty free to 5 mask now

[strange python]

it aint worth runnin perfection?

[scarlet sequoia]

no

[strange python]

aight thx

[crimson palm]

vop is a good minor

allows you to use vendetta on every elite

[strange python]

ya it links up w blood aswell

but im talm specificly about visions

what the best would be

got p much all at rank 3 except for strife

[crimson palm]

the best is whatever works for the route you're taking

[tall forge]

are you guys actually able to hit your sim number? i sim at 65k but best i was able to put out in heroic nya boss fight was 56k. mostly was around 40

[scarlet sequoia]

yes

[tall forge]

skill issue then

[scarlet sequoia]

with that difference yeah prolly, but u have to remember sims are a robot doing it more or less perfectly

and its typically 10k+ iterations

[tall forge]

i saw in the logs my bleeds were only up 65%. im sure that didnt help

[scarlet sequoia]

yeah thats definitely not good bro

[tall forge]

ill work at it 🙂

thanks man

just switch to sin this week to try and up my raid dps

still very scrubish

[tall forge]

actually @scarlet sequoia when you sim do you use heavy movement for the fight style? always avoiding floor crap and doing mechanics in raid considered...that actually has me right on target for dps

[scarlet sequoia]

nah i just use patchwerk

but yeah if youre still getting the rotational stuff down it can be tough

it takes a bit of practice to be able to do mechanics perfectly and still do your rotation perfectly

[crimson palm]

raz how close to 100k :D?

[worldly sandal]

can someone explain to me the appeal of running 3x EB and hidden blades on carapace? is it just padding?

because it felt very underwhelming

[crimson palm]

padding only

[scarlet sequoia]

on wednesday @crimson palm

[crimson palm]

i'm 1.5k away

what's a neck lvl worth to you atm?

[scarlet sequoia]

500

[late tusk]

Hello, i got a doubt with essences, because different guides say different essences

For PvP looks like Blood of Enemy is core

But at pve Worldvein, but this one looks like need other people with that equped right

?

Should i go Memory if i play with random peopel?

[grim trellis]

is there a sweet spot for how many bleeds you should have up? in cases where there are many adds. I'm thinking stuff like HC Hivemind adds

[crimson palm]

depends, but 3-4 is ok

[fleet anchor]

5 is usually what I'd say for sustain

But depends on the time window

But on Hivemind you should have 4 on the bosses most of the time anyway

But when I tested the priority target rotation APL some time ago, 5 was the saturation threshold for energy when trying to do a focus target rotation. 4 probably fine for FoK spam.

[vestal wren]

i think it was even 3 with fok spam but that required a lot more targets

[fleet anchor]

Yeah pure FoK spam requires quite a bit and depends on EB count

[grim trellis]

with FoK spam you mean no useage of finishers? so I assume 3-4 bleeds up and just spam FoK or with Envenoms in between? finding it hard to optimize my DPS against phases with many adds

and thanks for the info fellas

[patent topaz]

Delay vendetta for vanish with no ss playing subtrefuge? going through logs and I see both ways

[vestal wren]

yes, fok spam is the point where you in essence only maintain 3 bleeds

its to emphasize your aoe and requires 3 EB traits and usually high target counts to work

it has one obvious downside, your st damage becomes negatable

also keep in mind that groups don't remain big,
so you need to adjust back to a normal rotation if your target count gets lower

[coarse vault]

in ST do i want to vendetta before Garrote, or after (assuming Subterfuge)? connected to this, does anyone get pulled out of stealth when casting a macro with trinket/vendetta (i don't have the poison azerite for vendetta)? Thanks in advance

[crimson palm]

Delay vendetta for vanish with no ss playing subtrefuge? going through logs and I see both ways
@patent topaz only if it wont cost you anything

[arctic tulip]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gA2BkvS7Rc7663e28CM8u4
this look about right? major essense

subt better than MA right now with no SS?

[vestal dagger]

It’s summing that way

simming

Seems strange but it scales well

[odd tapir]

strange is the correct word 😄

[cobalt pelican]

:thonker:

[fleet anchor]

Is it really that strange? Subterfuge has been good for years and years in the past. MA was always going to have diminishing value due to base Crit increasing. 🙂

[vast forum]

it doesn't scale well, it's just that all talents on that row are somewhat irrelevant

[fleet anchor]

Subterfuge scales as well as it always has, it's MA that is getting worse

[arctic tulip]

gotcha

[fleet anchor]

The connection with SS is mostly because SS itself is tuned around having Subterfuge

So you basically have to use Subterfuge when using SS

Funny enough, with my current gear set I have enough Crit that MA has become even worse than Nightstalker haha

(Also did some minor Nightstalker optimizations a little while ago haha)

[vast forum]

is "current gear" without a talent in that row?

[strange python]

i have question, why is it that when i sim my char than i follow the info and my dps is smaller:))

is there anyone kid enough to look at my char? im confused

[fleet anchor]

Yes Yoppa

That's my normal setup just with 0 talent

[faint harness]

kinda crazy how small dps increase it is

[vast forum]

1.6% for a talent row, i love how shit rogue scaling is

[strange python]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8FhcttnihNRNzBVPLtj6de

[subtle tundra]

huge tbh

[strange python]

Hello guys, i read Ravenholdt guide but i'm a bit confused when it comes to second Vanish. Is the rotation : Vanish> Blood of the ennemy> Vendetta> Toxic blade> Garrot x2 ? Or Vendetta before vanish ? And should i delay 2nd Vendetta to line with 2nd vanish ? Thank you very much if you can help me

[hidden bay]

yes delay

https://gyazo.com/fdd8a3c325f4983aa86e89b99b1b26e5

and thats for second vanish

[dark crag]

Vendetta tb blood vanish env mut env with ma

[strange python]

Does anyone have a good keyboard layout normally ive seen people using things not too far apart obviously like 1-5 and shift + 1-5 etc and q and e

[dark crag]

Yes, you can add xcvb and f-keys

[strange python]

Yea i use those too

[dark crag]

Like the keys around wasd and thumb area

[strange python]

I played maplestory so these were common lol

[dark crag]

For mods i personally only use alt because my pinky finger is useless

• rfg

[coarse vault]

I use Q, E, R, F and 1, 2, 3 with all modifiers (CTRL, SHIFT, ALT), and as secondary, G, T, then Z and X

[granite haven]

Can you guys tell me how much you are patchwerk sim on raidbot? and your ilvl please

[strange python]

Thanks

Trying to figure out a good layout i use to use 1-= and F1-F12 lol

Basically using my forehead to activate shit

[coarse vault]

I was helped by switching to a more cramped approach, but it is not for everyone; i found reaching past 6 pretty difficult, and the F keys seem like they are miles away

by difficult, I mean, the chance of striking the correct key diminshed rapidly when I was trying to hit 9 instead of 8, for example

[strange python]

Yea no i find past 6 difficult but then i would stand in 1 spot and not move when fighting thats why

[coarse vault]

are your A and D keys set to strafe?

[strange python]

No

[coarse vault]

i would recommend starting there actually

[strange python]

Ok

[coarse vault]

and just go to work on a dummy in town for a few minutes to get used to it

[strange python]

Speakjng of dummy where are they lol like in Orgimmar

Or zandalar

[coarse vault]

taking the right hand (mouse hand) out of the equation for movement helps a bit when it comes to bindings

zandalar/boralus

[strange python]

Where in zandalar? Near the dock?

[coarse vault]

in the center of the city

u can ask a guard "point of interest" and dummies

[strange python]

Ah ok ty

[granite haven]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iF1n6k2g9rCfTinXrSHpS2 hello I would like to improve my sim someone would have a solution?

i need up 90k+

[fleet whale]

am i tripping, or are you using a 460 dagger in your MH but a 465 one in your off-hand?

[drifting cloud]

masterful enchant and vop minor

and we cant see your stuff in bags

[echo cargo]

@granite haven You should start by having your higher iLvl dagger in your main hand 👀

[covert mesa]

/wa

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[hidden bay]

@granite haven should be the best https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hG6cLZoFUht4CGxzAirBgg

[granite haven]

Ohhhh thank you ! @hidden bay

[hidden bay]

300 dps more if u get conflict and strife rank 3

[granite haven]

Ok thx hero !

Herp*

[toxic marsh]

basic question, assassination is dagger only in mh, right?

[drifting cloud]

both

[toxic marsh]

ty

[royal lantern]

mutilate needs 2 daggers

[marsh raven]

that can even be mogged as anything else. Some real fun

[royal lantern]

why would you tmog them too something else

daggers are the weapons of civilized people

[limber canyon]

Can anyone recommend which M+ dungeons to farm for daggers? (Everything but both my daggers are 465+)

[tepid egret]

So i dont pvp and dont have rank 3 blood essence available on my rogue, what would second best major slot be?

[strange python]

ur/fh would be fastest for daggers i guess

[limber canyon]

cheers

[little sandal]

for a workshop 19-20s should i got aoe or more single target

[remote oak]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-battle-for-azeroth-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[untold crater]

would you guys say assass is close at least to outlaw in m+? its gotta be way better for open world pvp/dailies doesnt it?

[marble hemlock]

it is, IF you have the gear for it

which is much much more tedious and/or rng based to acquire

[untold crater]

outlaw much easier to gear?

ok. just returning to the game/class and trying to catch up a little bit on things

[marble hemlock]

scath got alpha? :<

grats

both corruptions and azerite for outlaw are easier to get

http://puu.sh/FFzxJ/9faebab024.jpg

i like it

im in

lets make a club

[sudden brook]

mines better

[fleet whale]

maybe asmongold will post rogue feedback

[wide linden]

on raden mythic which option is better r3 infinite with r2 mindflay / or r6 mindflay ? i am playing subterfuge

but if i got infinite i would go 475 dagger mind flay 2 and a 460 dagger no courrption

[sour wraith]

I would say mind flay

[wide linden]

if playing master sin infinite will provide more output?

[lime edge]

what should i do for gear rn, mythics are like a 1% dps increase

[gloomy knoll]

is output is complete rng

[lime edge]

unless i do some super high lvl one

[gloomy knoll]

the proc rate is increased by haste however

do some mythic+ shax

[lime edge]

thats what im talking about

[gloomy knoll]

get a key and just try to form a group

[lime edge]

these are mythic + 8

[gloomy knoll]

will probably be easier than joining one since you're new

[lime edge]

1.1% rofl

[gloomy knoll]

gear scales all the way up to +14's i believe so

just keep grinding

or try to get into a normal / heroic raid

[lime edge]

yea but im not strong enough for those

lul

[gloomy knoll]

not yet 😛

[lime edge]

might do raids

[gloomy knoll]

also 1% is a lot

most ugprades i get are like .2

[wooden atlas]

Ineffable Truth any good for 15-20s?

[lethal tangle]

Hello, I have a question regarding M+ and do not know if its a dumb question lol. Is Sin playable in M+ without SS?

[wide linden]

i really don't think so, because most my damage comes from garrote - noob rogue opinion

echoing blades stack can work but i never tried it yet

[lethal tangle]

thanks brother

[vast forum]

a non-noob rogue opinion: it's extremely suboptimal to play assa without SS

you should try to get 3 of them, and if you can't, you should at least try to have 1

[wide linden]

what about echoing blades

[lethal tangle]

I love sin but SS just feels bad to me to play, i havent played it in forever because of it lol

Is DD not even worth using in M+?

[rigid mango]

No it's horrendous

[sour glade]

The absolute only way you're getting good numbers on sin in M+ is running Shrouded Suff.

[wide linden]

is it me or playing subterfuge and SS is easy mode in sin rogue :o?

[sour glade]

I crank in M+ as sin running 3x SS 2x EB. But without the SS you lose all the big garrote damage which is your highest damage contributor in that environment.

[lethal tangle]

Thanks boys, appreciate it

[lethal rune]

hey do any of you rogues ever find yourself coming out of stealth randomly? it happens to me kind of frequently it seems without me doing anything to leave stealth to my knowledge.

[marsh raven]

never to me. Check your bindings (you might avec a strange binding that makes it happen, like space or something close to a useful bind you use)?

In PvP be careful to some abilities of enemies that can do it. Not all as visible as a big damage aoe

[delicate fern]

so i run a quick sim just to have a glance at the rotation for the essence im using would anyone recommend doing anything differnt cause something dont feel right

[cobalt pelican]

what's wrong with it

[delicate fern]

just dont feel like im doing the damage i should be with this opener, i was doing mutilate - rupture razor coral - mutilate garrotte - vendetta vanish + TB - boe - then evenom

[rigid mango]

Vanishing there is bad

And coral can be with your first mutilate if you so want it to be

[delicate fern]

yeah but would i miss the MA window?

[rigid mango]

Huh?

[delicate fern]

mater assassin window i might miss the empowered garrotte if im not fast enough

[dark crag]

The ma window is for env mut env

[rigid mango]

You don't get an empowered garrote when you run MA

That's with subterfuge

[dark crag]

Coral is not on gcd