@rigid mango
#assassination
scarlet sequoia
rigid mango
@arctic walrus
thin gate
So who is it
arctic walrus
@quasi pewter
thin gate
Lewl
vast forum
just ask here whatever you need
rigid mango
He was right in bringing it into dms
marble hemlock
its usually easiest if you just ask whatever question is burning
and then whoever is available will respond
crimson rampart
Hi everyone, I need a hand with trying to play better, We wiped 14 time tonight on N’Zoth Hc and I’ve got a parse of 41 😦 I duno how to link my logs but here’s some pictures if you have any pointers that’d be great - Ict - Shadowsong
crimson palm
A link would suffice 
quasi pewter
sorry i missed the ping train
cloud gulch
heya guys, what are the better alternatives for BotE major in raids?
i dont pvp, so that aint happening
keen dome
Wv, clf depending on ur sims. Botd is very good if you can snipe low health adds on certain fights
fathom swift
Its not like you have to be good at pvp, you just need to grind honor
cloud gulch
i know that, but its not my thing
fathom swift
Itll also take much longer for stuff like clf or botd since theyre timegated
cloud gulch
i already have those xD only ones I dont have at rank 3 on my main are the BG ones
CLF it is
green bison
Hey all, I just ran a sim, Top Gear at that, which I ran to see if gemming and enchanting Haste was a dps gain. Apparently, going from 21% Haste to 30% Haste was a 5k dps gain on my current gear. I thought Crit > Haste for Sin. Did that change recently within the API for the nightly build of Simbot?
Went from 77k to 82k
fathom swift
No its all dependant on your gear, theres no cookie cutter answer for one stat being "better"
green bison
Well, I took a hit in crit then, went from 44% to 34% but increased my haste
fathom swift
Dont focus on the %s
green bison
Well, I assume its due to one of the pieces having IS on it
strange python
well, that might be it
dark token
https://i.imgur.com/dcNB56T.png tempted to buy this but thats like prob 95% of my gold lol
jade hawk
if i get two nothing personal for azerite powers do they stack?
arctic walrus
damage yes energy no
jade hawk
okay, ty
drifting cosmos
Any rough ideas on how much haste you need for exang / deeper Strat build?
faint harness
About 2.5 gazillion
cobalt pelican
1 haste
shy dust
More than 1 haste but less than 2.5 gazillion
rancid bobcat
just 1 haste
ionic vault
How easy should it be to kill a disc priest as a Sin rogue?
mystic fiber
Should leveling an assassination rogue mean having low DPS and dying easily? It's been rough so far - level 42. Constantly lowest DPS in dungeons.
drifting cosmos
Wouldn't be surprised. Sin is not really bursty kind of spec. Always think sub would be better in leveling but I can be wrong too
umbral lodge
I leveled two sin rogues in the last year, and I felt the same pain. Constantly energy starved, and the mobs often die before I can get poisons rolling. You may have better luck with another spec, but I have no xp with that.
mystic fiber
At what point did you start feeling strong?
vast forum
max lvl with good gear 
umbral lodge
I actually quit dungeons for those reasons and leveled in world. Always felt pretty fast and effective there.
fleet whale
when you get venomous wounds assassin gets a bit better with leveling
I would still chose outlaw and sub over it for leveling, but it's decent when you learn that passive
jovial vault
Personally go outlaw leveling with MFD
rocky holly
boys
emergency red alert
so our feral druid left in the middle of the night and we dont have roar on carapce
i have the footpad trait but it doesnt give anyone the speed buff
is this a known bug?
jaunty salmon
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
vestal wren
foodpad did work last time i used it
frigid briar
@rocky holly
For carapace last phase we use
Gateway
windrush totem
Lightfoot potions
Gateway - Hero here and kill boss
dark crag
Footpad has a small range and is just speed. The amount is trivial
dense falcon
Could anyone direct me to the most current legit guide? Just trying to understand what to use for essences and azerite now but for some reason I am just not comprehending a straight answer from wowhead. Thanks
dark crag
Wowhead is most up to date
rocky holly
ahhh it was an issue of people having warmode on/off for footpad
dark crag
In raid?
dark crag
That's interesting
rocky holly
really weird
or i guess anyone could answer that question.. any speed boost up the tunnel?
we've been using windrush but now we have to save since we dont have roar anymore
cobalt pelican
walking is fine
arctic walrus
you can walk it
and also if nobody engages him i'm pretty sure he doesn't spawn the growths
so if people are slow just group at the door of p2 and wait for everyone to gather
rancid bobcat
Think we used Lightfoot potions too on one of the moves
frigid briar
we just walked up, people with bombs at left side other people are right side
then gripped who ever was last or if the warlock was slow we gripped him so he could put down gateway
junior barn
hey guys, if i have 4 combo points, already have rupture and garrote up, is it worth to cast another mut overapping my cps
pseudo hamlet
Nope
soft lily
Cast Toxic Blade if it’s off cd otherwise Envenom at 4 / 5 pts
junior barn
Okay doozy ty
idle prairie
Is Heart of Darkness worth taking as Sin? Other option for my piece is Twist the Knife
gusty mirage
heart of darkness is nice to have, its a good amount of secondary stats that's always there. I'd sim it to see if it'll out DPS a TtK
idle prairie
Fair, figured I'd ask before simming in case it doesn't sim well for Sin in general.
gusty mirage
Yeah HoD is a really solid trait, it's nothing crazy but it's good
idle prairie
Good to know then, cheers.
woven bane
do you rather use unbridled fury pot or focused resolve? is there a better one or doenst i really matter
peak yarrow
anyone have a link to a good assa elvui/wa?
tropic ocean
ClyffToday at 11:37 AM
do you rather use unbridled fury pot or focused resolve? is there a better one or doenst i really matter
whatever sims better
soft lily
@woven bane do a Quick sim using your top gear. If you scroll down on the results, it will tell you what pot was used in the top damage sim.
onyx hedge
Apparently vita is losing its touch? Heard people saying its falling down abit?
quasi pewter
peak yarrow
is deadly poison the only poison worth using?
sullen wing
What essences are people running??
scarlet sequoia
whatever sims best
faint harness
@onyx hedge Vita is tired after being used by so many people so its naturally exhausted and needs to rest.
soft lily
Going to use Void and teach it a lesson
dark crag
If the shield and crit were 2 separate buffs
peak yarrow
does anyone have a good weakauras which tracks garrote and rupture?
soft lily
You should Check our Wago.io @peak yarrow
I personally just rock Debuff trackers on Nameplates
novel zephyr
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
peak yarrow
which one of these is best in your guys' opinions?
novel zephyr
afenar imo
cobalt pelican
just pick whichever one looks the prettiest to you
there's not really a best and worst
novel zephyr
^
peak yarrow
cool thanks guys 🙂
i should take a crit haste dagger over a versatility mastery one right?
upgrade-wise
soft lily
Always best to sim it
obsidian kiln
hello all, i hope i wont make you angry with a slight noobish question 😛 im a lil button smasher and really want to do something every gcd. so far i always avoided rogue since i heard from the general playerbase that its normal to have downtime with autohits. so im asking the veterans here if this is truly the case on 120 or if i can smash some buttons with rogue 🙂
pseudo hamlet
Yes you can smash buttons on your rogue.
honest basin
It's the end of the patch so we have enough haste to smash buttons while doing the correct rotation. When SL will hit if you keep playing assa you will most likely have that downtime to get your muts into the envenom window
crimson palm
You'll still have downtime unless you're running t4+ exp pieces
obsidian kiln
yeah i just dont want to here "i cant do that yet" because of the lack of energy
royal lantern
yeee,downtimes are normal and tbh, smashing buttons is not that great anyway
you want too have energy ready for your tb burst windows
crimson palm
Assa is about burst windows, if you're not into that go play a DH
royal lantern
on rogue you need too think different, you dont lose dps by having 1-2dead gcds,you lose dps by fucking up dmg windows/cap energy/overcap cp
honest basin
with current haste levels + ra den trinket procs + whatever you may have in terms of corruption you really, really don't have that much downtime these days tbh
royal lantern
no pooling is 2envenoms for most people during tb
you can do 3 pretty regular with pooling
vast forum
or just play outlaw if you want buttonmashing
royal lantern
ye sin/sub are no button smashers, waiting is normal part of the gameplay
outlaw is the "i drank 8 coffes this morning and spam my keys" spec
obsidian kiln
really? i thought with haste as the focus sin is more of a buttonsmasher than outlaw
crimson palm
kek
obsidian kiln
as a fury main, waiting is not my strongest point 😛 😄
royal lantern
ye outlaw always has something too press
obsidian kiln
yeah not i cant play outlaw
it feels like the rebel child of a prestigous assassin family shouting "but i want to be a famous warrior"
steep ridge
you roll and roll and roll and roll
obsidian kiln
nooo please stop
steep ridge
but roll ._.
royal lantern
rolling is not that important
the difference bettwen good and bad rolls is almost not there
you lose more dps by not getting enough SS procs
dispatch is weak as hell, you dont really lose meaningfull dmg by rolling 2-3x, cus then you would have used 2-3x dispatch, wich itself simply isnt that much dmg
obsidian kiln
then i rather have a lil down time than playing the rebel child
jade hawk
How is sin rogue looking for Shadowlands?
vestal wren
status or rogue on alpha:
- sin -> did they change something?
- outlaw -> why can't i reroll my buffs?
- subtlety -> we back in wod boys!
storm perch
triple poison buff!
vestal wren
i mean, things did change like snd is back, shiv is now tb, ct does damage now... but overall not a lot of change
soft lily
Bascially same rotation with the addition of keeping SnD up again
vestal wren
probably
azerite had no noticable gameplay changes iirc
so its just "like now" but without essences/trinkets (and shiv instead of TB)
soft lily
are they getting rid of trinkets?
vestal wren
i just mean that you wil have diffrent trinkets in shadowlands
and the current gameplay changing trinkets wont be there
soft lily
I just hope they dont have teir 2 item that out sims teir 3 again
vestal wren
they might add new ones that impact your gameplay
obsidian kiln
wow that gave me a scare for a second
vestal wren
sry, i did express that badly
obsidian kiln
^^
crimson palm
we do lose eb/ss tho, hope they tune the numbers accordingly
or its gonna be outlaw/sub in m+
tacit pebble
man i hope they realize no one wants an extra maintenance buff with slice and dice
crimson palm
how can you claim no one wants it?
tacit pebble
the excellent feedback to symbols of death at the start of legion
maintenance buffs for the point of maintenance buffs are awful
ionic dew
Talent question
I’ve been using superfuge until recently a raid group had me switch to night stalker, which I completely get-, but In pvp what would be better
quasi pewter
superfuge 
rigid mango
That being said NS is better than MA 
Alteast if you're using standard coral + bote shit
Sims a tiny bit higher than MA which was interesting
crimson palm
how does it feel having alarcity and exsan on the same row with shiv in shadowlands
rigid mango
Dunno havn't tried it
crimson palm
exsan + shiv will be pretty terrible from the looks of it
and alacrity would benefit exsan
rigid mango
They're seperate CD's essentially
rigid mango
I don't think exsang + tb is a bad thing
But they don't work with eachother either
so
we'll just have to see
rigid mango
But they don't have to either
crimson palm
yeh but let's say exsan benefits from one build with certain stats
and shiv on other
it'll feel a bit weird
rigid mango
Yeah but that'd mean that 1. there might be 2 diff builds that can compete with one another which I HIGHLY appreciate. 2. if it's such a bad sync, you'll use something else
Either way I don't see it as a bad thing
crimson palm
considering the jack of all trades kit we seem to be getting, that's the most likely case 😄
vestal wren
alacrity 
lone junco
always has been
mut env mut env mut env
repeat
@gusty kestrel is there a Crit equivalent of Expedient? I bet you could stack and see like 75% plus crit for a fight duration
probably. Have you seen anyone with it stacked as high as RAZ haste?
mossy pawn
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
lone junco
cause as we remember, we dont need as much energy if you avg mut once vs twice. big crit is always nice.
lean marten
crit has good gameplay interactions but has huge DR on dps at higher %crit, hence why MA falls off compared to subt. Haste scales your energy, poisons, and bleeds so has better dps scaling in the long run
lone junco
sure, but the people stacking haste are capping energy and blowing it out the top. I just expect to see a solid blend, and one that leans to the crit side would be nice.
lone junco
@lean marten ran 75%+ crit in legion and it had such a nice flow to it.
rigid mango
If you were to run non-MA, non-coral setups it'd be fine
But you need a lot of stuff to make that happen most likely
night vale
i run like 50% base crit in raids, as i dont have expedient, dont have all the pieces i want tho
lone junco
Seeing haste DR when people cap E during vendetta anyway.
lone junco
sure. that makes sense.
night vale
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bk5b3S9mMfJ45hfVXvioF1
Thats my crit build sim with 35 corruption
lone junco
just looking forward to see some prophet rolling with 59corruption maintaining like 75% crit on mut.
vestal wren
NS 👀 have not seen ppl play ns in ages
lean marten
hasted bleeds/poisons adds a lot of value to haste beyond energy
lone junco
rip the game play in the age of triple tendy procs
SS still crits. just looking to see these numbers go up. to 50-85
rupture isnt high enough on the tree to matter. even with high haste it is still below Env. haste is energy. and once you have too much, we see it slide to crit. If you are ignoring tendy logs, there is just going to be a balance for best performance during vendetta. and if high E low crit does that, then fine. Just looking forward to seeing someone go batshit crit.
gg
stable isle
you're on ravencrest right? its a half decent deal for the servers
crimson palm
Yeah
stable isle
460s are like 600-800k usually
stable isle
severe is lidl expedient
stable isle
just get lucky 
karmic fjord
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
prisma ermine
does anyone know if blood of the enemy stacks with master assassin? like is it better to use it before you vanish in ur single target rotation or after
soft lily
It should yes
prisma ermine
okay cool ty for that
stable isle
vend > tb > blood > vanish if running MA. worth simming if subterfuge is better for you though
soft lily
Personally I think it would be crit overkill at high ilvl. but it's always safe to just do a quick sim and see what rotation the bot uses
prisma ermine
@stable isle yeh thats what ive been doing
@soft lily wait can u see what rotation raidbots uses? i didnt even kno
aight ill try and figure that out then
soft lily
In quick sim yes
scroll down on the results
It shows you the rotation for the highest damage that was simmed
stable isle
just see if MA is better than subt with your current gear. if not you do the same as above but without the vanish. delay the vanish until garotte is in pandemic
presuming youre running the usual ST traits
soft lily
Also if you monitor your stat levels mid encounter BOTE and MA doesn't show. So for example with buffs and trink/trait procs you hit 70% crit MA + BOTE will be also adding 75%
lone junco
@soft lily doubt it shows the rotation of the highest damage, but 1 iteration of the build with the highest average sim. 🤓
soft lily
Regardless it's a decent example
lone junco
For sure.
pearl jungle
Hello guys..
Im a new player in wow
I started a rog..
I'm not really good at sim yet so I'd like to ask what a good stat prio as rog on raid and m+
Maybe crit and mastery as shroud with talent or double doose with haste?
Someone can help me a bit here or private? I would really appreciate it
soft lily
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
soft lily
Good way to start. is to just get the best Ilvl gear you can get to be able to get stam to live through encounters and then just Sim every time you get something new.
pearl jungle
Okay man,thanks a lot!
vagrant raven
hey guys does anyone use the addon hekili for assassination?
crimson palm
@stable isle i managed to get em for 200k
@scarlet sequoia https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sLPHNRajxeerhwb53Yyn5Y almost gotcha XD
soft lily
I'm jealous of all your Corruption
I should go sub with all the Mastery Amp I have lol
scarlet sequoia
60 corruption 
crimson palm
next week 58 
patent topaz
exsang with only one ss thats pretty wack
soft lily
I read someone say they sim higher with one SS
crimson palm
they sim higher this way but playing 3x ss
polar pier
does feint reduce damage like wrathion's incineration?
like, is aoe damage considered anything that isn't a direct spell that travels towards a character or auto attacks?
fleet anchor
@polar pier AoE is considered anything that is an AoE-flagged damage source, but not all things that look like AoEs are AoEs
e.g. like a lot of the damage on N'zoth is considered periodic
Even the "AoE" pulse from the boss
Some things are also AoE spells that trigger ST sub-spells and thus don't work (like Orgozoa's AoE from EP)
crimson palm
Torment does get reduced by feint tho?
or at least I feel like i'm taking reduced dmg
fleet anchor
Infinity's Toll doesn't
crimson palm
thought you meant torment since it's an aoe pulse
fleet anchor
Because technically it's a DoT 😦
Also it works on the initial damage of Evoke but not the pools or ticks.
Works on Cleansing Protocol which is really useful
crimson palm
bote
cyan venture
is a 430 with rank 3 twisted appendage or 470 plain boots better?
vital wind
i'd sim it kev
soft lily
I use Bote
crimson palm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vjFmfAMgXV47kJUAsi931p managed to snatch 100 more dps
rancid bobcat
sour glade
So much Expedient, so jelly. I have a gushing wound on my rogue which is great but only have the double cara daggers and stars 2 besides so I haven't been able to get anywhere close to my warrior's raid numbers.
dark crag
Your alt has almost the same azerite like my main. I bet your gw is 475
I should pvp with all the versa procs i get
lone junco
My resto druid runs about 28-30vers in arena. That plus bear takes a lot of the pressure off most melee.
pseudo hamlet
I did only 3 visions on my alt DH, got gushing wounds on everything... on my rog? Did few times a week 5masks for a quite long time and only thing that was good was II infinite stars.
lone junco
Got R3 tendy from my first vision on Rogue. Skill tbh.
harsh sphinx
surreal solar
starting to feel like stat pieces are better for raid than anything else... tendies gets real feast or famine sometimes, and its showing in my parses (don't have any IS or TD pieces, a couple crits, but mostly tendies...)
cobalt pelican
yes
surreal solar
side note: Is Bote Major/Lucid Minor/Conflict Minor/Breath Minor still the go to? or has it changed?
surreal solar
yeah, i always sim it, but sometimes sims overcompensate cough expecting tendies to consistently proc cough
surreal solar
im not just going by a single set of logs, even in generic dailies, its feeling as tho on demand, its not as consistent as say a static 12% crit, in pvp it's fantastic, but i just don't feel its outpowering others in pve
cobalt gyro
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cpGJG7DkBLfrqvAALsR9ZU my sin can't escape double on use
tame tangle
hey so trying some sin in keys, i know for outlaw dslice is good but how do yall sim for ass in m+?
tropic sand
It's ok of I use a fist weapon on my offhand? It's 455ilvl and my current adaga is 410. Which one is better?
If I use*
drifting cloud
you cant mutilate without 2 daggers
vast forum
@tame tangle usually 4-6 targets 40-60 seconds without lust
tall rose
What race did everyone make their rogues? Thinking about changing mine. Currently a blood elf. Just don’t like the animation I guess.
tame tangle
@vast forum thanks
vast forum
if i was horde i'd deffo go with zandalari troll (if you only care about looks)
tall rose
I was thinking the mag orc
strange python
Blood elf
But if its about looks its in the eye of the beholder
Its like asking ur best friend if he thinks that ur wife is hot
If u dislike it change it to something u like
limpid matrix
Is it worth to redo azerite traits and have a different full set of gear with different stats for ST and another for AoE in raiding? Or should i just be the dedicated boss dpser? Im topping meters on bosses like Maut and Shadhar but then on Hivemind i cant do anything near what most of my other raid members are doing
strange python
If u need aoe / want to parse redo traits if u need boss dmg /ravager nuke stay st
drifting cosmos
Use your m+ set for hivemind?
hearty oriole
would 1 SS be enough to be competitive in Mythic+ around the 12-13 range?
drifting cosmos
I'd say 3 is better but depends on a lot of other things too
tropic sand
atm my rogue is undead but I'm thinking about change it to belf or vulpera. Idk if it is too much of a loss in pvp. 😢
tropic sand
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
marble hemlock
@hearty oriole Largely depends on what you consider "competitive". You can certainly do good DPS with just 1SS trait, but it depends on what the other 5 traits are, what the group comp is, etc.
A lot of variables. Generally speaking I'd say, you can play pmuch everything in a +12 and be successful
waxen socket
Tonight my guild starts on mythic drestagath. I've been watching some kill pov's from different rogues and read up on the fight. Does anyone here have any specific tips on how to approach this boss?
Also checked out warcraftlogs for gearing choices so got that base covered in terms of essences etc etc
marble hemlock
You'll see a lot of breath of the dying majors. Practice how to snipe low-hp targets and getting the cooldown reset properly.
Other than that, your guild should have assignments when you pick up buffs etc., hold Vendetta for those, or use CDs on Tentacles if you struggle killing those.
deft obsidian
Yeah tend to run BotD or BotE majors but the former is down to how well you can snipe 😉 can pump some big numbers when done properly.
waxen socket
Yea i saw the breath alot. Will run that. I also use it on xanesh as outlaw so got some practice in before hand 😄
deft obsidian
Yeah indeed and as Seliathan eluded to, you just save your dps cd's for when you're picking up buff to pump Drest. Just rotate as a melee team killing the big tentacles when not on boss.
crimson palm
Pad as much as you can on those buffed tentacles
deft obsidian
No had the privilege of returning to Drest since the nurf but i'd imagine its even more trivial 😛
vestal wren
you can bring pretty much whatever up to +18
also even tho it often sounds like that you don't need your bis azerite for keys
neon berry
Hey guys, just want to have people’s opinions on something. What is the stat priority in a raid environment and what is the stat priority in Mythic plus? And advice on essences and traits for both would be welcomed 🙂
drifting cosmos
Crit for mythic +
And crit for raid is not bad neither, but have to Sim to be sure
marble hemlock
Statprio for raiding depends largely on your available gear/corruptions
fathom swift
idk if it's just my gear but I noticed galecaller's boon was being used very infrequently in my sims and tried messing with the apl to see if there was any improvement and ended up with a few hundred dps increase using it slightly more often
fathom swift
there was a conditional on gcb added recently, it's just still lower than also using it more often
cobalt pelican
use_item,name=galecallers_boon,if=(debuff.vendetta.up|(!talent.exsanguinate.enabled&cooldown.vendetta.remains>45|talent.exsanguinate.enabled&cooldown.exsanguinate.remains<6))&!exsanguinated.rupture
this one?
fathom swift
yeah
fathom swift
I'm checking it with base profile to see if it is just weird thing with my gear
cobalt pelican
where did you grab the apl from?
fathom swift
I just pasted it from profile tab from a raidbots html report
cobalt pelican
i c
fathom swift
using the t25 profile and just replacing coral with galecallers and using 2220031 talents it's basically dps neutral, so it probably is gear related but not sure what specifically
should I post in #tc-research as well?
cobalt pelican
it's way more likely to get looked at that way, yeah
even at neutral there'd be like no reason to push it but i'm not sure what could've happened
it's possible it was tested without ds
fathom swift
ok, I'll run some more sims first
cobalt pelican
oh
ehh stuff like this is hard for my brain, i didn't realize you're playing stars which could make the last cast of gcb be pretty valuable on iterations it's getting an extra
but if it's still neutral for base profile it's just hard to know why it was added in the first place
fathom swift
I also realized I wasn't including ss in the base profile which might change it? but yeah there's so many potential factors with corruptions + essences too it's hard to pinpoint the reason for it being randomly much higher for me
noble pilot
@tropic sand Undead is not super special in PvP and you're most likely won't impair yourself by race changing to what you want to play. Consider orc as a horde if you want a truly best horde PvP race.
cobalt pelican
i wouldn't imagine with clf ss would make a massive difference, like condensing the ss dot does nothing if it's not into an empowered window (blood, or on use or something similar)
i guess i shouldn't say does nothing, but it's just energy/unempowered garrote uptime
fathom swift
clf, without ss vs with ss
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/et5WwfLJCpykpBR198eea1
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dE55ccbK7NaT3KQQdRTbM6
it definitely is ss for some reason
cobalt pelican
huh..
strange python
Doesnt clf increase haste which scales with bleeds?
faint harness
maybe the point is that it sims wrong
cobalt pelican
yeah clf gives haste and yeah dots scale with haste, but i just didn't think it'd impact gcb timing in any meaningful way to have ss or not
but i guess it's the decision between gcb 3rd exsang or gcb shrouded garrotes
so i suppose it somewhat makes sense, i'm just very sleepy
faint harness
the question is, why is CLF a dps loss
afaik, you use CLF-prepull
so its not a GCD you spend during exsang anyway
or pre-exsang
tranquil moat
@crystal vault What do you change for m+? Do you have different azerite pieces?
cobalt pelican
a dps loss compared 2 what sorry
crystal vault
@tranquil moat specc to outlaw 
tranquil moat
Haha, fair enough mate. I'm still trying to get another 465 dagger for sin.. But my azerite setup is completely different to yours since I just spam m+
very jealous of the daggers
crystal vault
i am jealous bout expidient and gushing wound 😦
tranquil moat
Any dungeons besides Tol Dagor I should be spamming to get a dagger?
distant lava
any dungeon that has a dagger really
workshop / URs daggers are nice too and they don't end up as shitshows that often
wet ruin
GW is not even that good anymore, maybe just for a filler
distant lava
it's still one of the most efficient corruptions
red bloom
does Exang work with the GW bleed?
wet ruin
GW is not a bleed
but its just good dps/corruption
thing is though, you can only get so many pieces with corruption
storm perch
when SS can be better then DD in simulations?
tranquil moat
Underrot might be a good idea cause I can get the first weapon too!
wet ruin
and with corruption resistance you can't really fill it with GW, so things that give you more corruption are better, something like expedients
storm perch
just don't get how it work, when SS becomes more powerfull
distant lava
@tranquil moat you can't
tranquil moat
I can, if I’m playing with a leather stack @distant lava
red bloom
WTB any Expedients, I'm forced into the same proc life as noxia except my third wiggly boi is a rank 2
fleet anchor
@faint harness I’m a little unclear what you’re saying “sims wrong” based on the conversation above. Could you clarify? I don’t think there would be anything wrong with CLFs interaction with SS at all.
faint harness
I didnt read the full conversation either
fathom swift
the stuff I was posting earlier about galecallers? wasn't anything to do with clf specifically that just happened to be the major I was using
dawn root
Best opener for fastest burst potential on fights like Rexxar would be something like: Garrote, Garrote, Rupture, Vendetta (+on use trinket), exsang, blood of the enemy?
faint harness
that will blow the mob out of existence
dawn root
I know that's the goal ;D
tranquil moat
Anyone on EU wanna do some dungeons and help me get a dagger? 🙄
faint harness
pug wrathion
crimson palm
gar rup gar ven mut(max cp) rup exsan
faint harness
Yea
true
But for a vision boss
i doubt it will live through a fully pandemicd rupture
even with exsang
faint harness
yea rexxar wouldnt
crimson palm
i burst him for 500k+ kek
dawn root
Use exang then bote though?
crimson palm
Ye
storm perch
Ye
@crimson palm hello, sry for stupid question. How do you sim with 3ss better, then with 3dd? It's only clf/exsan reason or?
crimson palm
dd is still simming higher for me on head and shoulders
carapace chest is SS
but It's a 200 dps diff ~
and if you can garrote something else it's added value
tropic sand
@noble pilot ty for your reply. I'm not a pro player myself. Maybe racial is just a small % and won't even make difference for my game play. Idk. What do you think about belf racial for pvp? Better than undead's? Way worst than orc's?
strange python
Oh fuck alliance
crimson palm
😄
strange python
So if i have enough haste the dps comes from exsanguinate and not from SS
wet ruin
I am pretty sure even with more than 200 dps difference that SS will be better than DD
strange python
I doubt its simming wrong and i always trust sims idk
wet ruin
its not that it is simming wrong
wet ruin
its just in reality you rarely get a sim fight
soft lily
I think DD sims better with high mastery
wet ruin
I am pretty sure SS will be better on a 2-3 min fight, which is the length of the ST fights
fathom swift
especially if you're able to put garrotes on multiple targets ss value is insane
soft lily
Atleast I am pretty sure it is in my situation
strange python
I have 50% mastery i guess u are talking about me
wet ruin
and the other fights you can put a garrote on more than one target, which makes it better
I am talking specifically about the expedient exsang build
crimson palm
yeh
the only issue is you rely on vanish so much that doing a vision build is close to impossible without reforging
storm perch
@crimson palm sry, can you please type your stats with expedient build? especially how much crit you get in result? and haste?
soft lily
I dont think damage is a huge issue in visions
crimson palm
i'm nowhere near my desktop atm
soft lily
Mechanics is what kills people
storm perch
why does it matter?
@crimson palm just wondering how much crit value do you get, guess somewhere about 30-35%
when every piece on haste increase
wild edge
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/x53jfVaTcoqVR5dqY16RTk
i sim higher with visions than with bote (~400dps), should i use vision then or still bote?
patent topaz
vop can be hit or miss
hardy wind
so a lot of people are obviously stacking double dose but the gear I keep getting from the m+ vendor only has TTK on it. sims say it's better to keep the 475 TTK piece over a 460 DD piece. do I whole heartedly believe that or join the herd and stack the same traits as everyone else? bad luck with azerite gear this patch
patent topaz
use what the sim says
wild edge
would you say there is a boss where bote is way better? (mytic)
patent topaz
bote will be more consistent on all bosses, if you need the shorter cd you are better off using the minor
raven locust
If you're progressing through Mythic I would recommend BoTE on every fight you play Assass, you want that consistent dps every pull
soft lily
Bote maj also lines up with vendetta nicely if you use VOP minor.
raven locust
@hardy wind if the TTK sims better I would just use it
mellow pier
VoP minor would be harder for prog than vop major unless u know ur kill time
If u wanted to use vision
Raden vop major would be fine
wild edge
im CE so there is no progress, its just for logs i guess :`D
patent topaz
vop has higher damage ceiling but its rng
wild edge
xD
mellow pier
This is the only tier where i really dont care about trying to do well on parses
This and NH lol
raven locust
At least its the most fun the game has been since BFA launched
raven locust
Corruption would be a fine addition if there was a way to pursue the corruptions you desire with a little DPS tweaking
mellow pier
Agreed
soft lily
Nothing is better than opening the cache to Avoidance Corruption
mellow pier
Also if corruption didnt passively do 40% of ur dmg
raven locust
Yea I dont like how random my DPS is
mellow pier
It gets less random if u get expedient
raven locust
I'm forced to stack Twisted because it's the only corruptions Im getting T_T
mellow pier
Trouble is getting the corruption again lol
raven locust
Havent seen a single expiedent of any rank and no gushing wounds
tranquil moat
is everyone trying for expediant?
mellow pier
Good thing i only raid 6 hrs now so i dont really care much tbh
Eventually expedient is the goal i think for everyone
But TA and IF are more instant gratification
raven locust
expedient is top tier, it's also reliable DPS gained
mellow pier
Which is 2020 wow
Instant gratification
When i saw a warrior in my guild get 34 star procs in 3 mins
40% of dps with only 5 ranks
Meanwhile im 121 corruption 12 ranks of mindflay with 1 proc
raven locust
I know the feeling
mellow pier
Playing with corruption is the "skill" now imo
tranquil moat
I'm really struggling to get another 465 dagger, I currently have a 415 one :/
raven locust
Seeing casual rogues running around with 3x 12% haste makes me sad too
mellow pier
I saw a mage with 12 ranks of masterful from m+ cache doing casual 50k dps
But yeah looking forward to SL
Atleast rogue is basically not changing again for 3rd xpac in a row lol
raven locust
I hope Necrolord is good, that and the Kyrian look fun
plain thistle
lets go boys, running rank 6 expedient and evey piece of corruption I use doesnt have haste, but ok 🙂
fleet anchor
I find it strange people are saying BotE is the consistent option. The consistent option nowadays is to use Breath or CLF in most cases.
BotE is definitely less consistent than CLF since it requires crits (and on specific abilities) to actually gain most of its value... low-end sims on BotE are like 4-5k lower than CLFs low-end.
For a lot of gear setups CLF is just better now with higher AP
patent topaz
well, the question was a comparison between bote and vop majors
fleet anchor
I suppose compared to VoP then yes that's definitely true. But personally I don't think I'd run VoP major unless I had some funny NP setup going on.
At least for my gear with 1x NP VoP Major is probably one of the worst options by a pretty significant margin. And I suspect that's probably the case for most gear setups that aren't running 3x NP or something.
patent topaz
for me personally with 2x DD 2xNP 1x gizmo 1x ttk vop major sims the highest
but I dont like running it too much
fleet anchor
VoP major almost 2% behind compared to the other 4 options (WV 0 Allies/BotE/BotD/CLF) for me with 1x NP
So 2x might be where it catches up, I'd need to check
But unless it's far ahead (with 3x maybe?) it's probably not a great option due to the variance
strange python
ye its like 1.5k ahead for me with 3x
patent topaz
I ran it on a couple of hc bosses on a an alt run and it didnt go well
fleet anchor
Yeah even with 2x NP for me it's still a fair bit behind but starts to get closer
(Equipped is Breath + CnS)
faint harness
both CLF and vop major sims better than bote for me
fleet anchor
What's your AP level Grizzled?
faint harness
bote minor seems to be good tho
patent topaz
my neck is 88
fleet anchor
Yeah same as me, interesting. I haven't seen BotE beat Breath for my setup in quite some time
Maybe I have more crit on my gear in general
patent topaz
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9Pb8rUpR5CEkb1ECLBCUgE was the essence major sim I ran a couple of days ago
equipped was bote major
fleet anchor
At the end of the day, all this stuff is close enough that gear differences really make a big change
Probably BotE gaining some value for you because of so little crit on gear
Although I'd say CLF is basically a sidegrade for you within 0.3% too
patent topaz
Secondaries with that set. Vop/bote/clf are all within 300 dps for me
fleet anchor
Might be better on a fight length like 4m or something
Default 5m sims are actually pretty conservative wrt CLF
Also, now I get to sink into my weekly post-chest depression lol
strange python
for me clf is 1k under and bote is 500 under vop major rn
fleet anchor
I really wish Assassination had some interaction that could take advantage of these CDR ones
patent topaz
VOP major toxic blade cdr slot machine!
fallow marsh
Hey guys do u know why some players are stacking 3 times the vendetta trait in their gear?
honest vessel
are they running visions major?
fallow marsh
some are doing it and some just as a minor
honest vessel
probably just sims better for those who're running the minor, maybe fight specific burst windows, and its a semi-meme build with the major
fallow marsh
xD ok 😄 thanks do u know why everyone is spamming the vendetta trait at wrathion?
drifting cloud
Because fight timers you get an extra one before he goes away
Oh you meant azerite not vop I guess
fallow marsh
i meant the "not personal" trait --> vendetta in your azerite ^^
honest vessel
probably goes hand in hand with vop, running visions means more vendettas, so buff the vendettas i guess
and people run vop on wrathion already
raven burrow
Don't have my BIS Traits yet for Azerite. Would you prefer the third SS over the first EB? I guess having 3xSS is important, but M+ without a single EB feels somewhat wrong. :/
Edit: Don't know how to sim this best. Dungeon slice says 3xSS, but I don't know if thats accurate. Simmed a 1,5 minute fight with 4 bosses patchwerk, that sim ranks 3xSS better.
honest vessel
not really a simmable situation
sin cant sim for dungeons super well
sorry, i can't answer your question, i dont dungeon as assa
white wyvern
@raven burrow 1 EB not worth.
I run just 3 SS and do fine damage.
raven burrow
@white wyvern Will try 3xSS. Without EB, do you apply rupture to every enemy after your garrotes, or still using the high energy reg for fok spam? (assuming mobs are tough enough to make rupture worth it).
Thank you btw!
white wyvern
I am 3 SS, 2 TTK, and some other random thing so in AOE I just keep up enough bleeds for infinite energy (usually 3-4 bleeds).
Once empowered G fall off I keep up 3-4 ruptures.
During the in between just build and Envenom.
raven burrow
Thanks, I'll try it. 🙂
lone junco
just make sure your tank knows you want restealths. cause youll be sad if they chain pull too much
in keys, specifically
untold idol
Agree 3 SS is priority over EB, but ideally you have both
fleet anchor
It is kinda hard to get 3x both though, very limited Azerite options 😦
lone junco
I still havent ever had 3ss 3eb.
crimson palm
Most of the pieces have it tho
lone junco
at best was 2s/2eb, but not on the same pieces.
crimson palm
If you played since start of the patch you should have em by now
fleet anchor
What do you mean exactly by most of the pieces have it?
There's only 1/6 Azerite vendor helm with both on it. 3/7 shoulders. 2/7 Chests.
flint gorge
hey guys
white wyvern
@crimson palm Not true and I am an example of that.
fleet anchor
Chance of getting all of them by now is...exceedingly low lol
flint gorge
does gear matter in world pvp
fleet anchor
None of the raid pieces have SS/FoK. And I don't think most of the PvP items do either.
crimson palm
Meant the vendor ones
fleet anchor
I mean the best slot has a 42% chance, the worst has 16%
crimson palm
Shoulders is very easy and you'll be rolling for Gorak anyway
That's on one rol lthough
You should have 20+ by now
white wyvern
LMAO
crimson palm
Unless you're extremely unlucky
drifting cloud
Are u that bad at math
untold idol
Someone is wearing heroic pieces rofl
ember mural
until that moment you get clockwork heart shoulders 3 times in a row
drifting cloud
Maybe if you do a 40 weekly youd have that many rolls yeah
Or you get traded all leather azerite
crimson palm
with scraps on average
rigid mango
I doubt I've ever averaged that much ngl
drifting cloud
Ok 3k a week 20 rolls is 95k
rigid mango
and I mean no seli is saving for guaranteed pieces and he doesn't have all 3 yet
drifting cloud
Patch has been out like what 15 weeks max
fleet anchor
14 resets iirc
First week didn't have currency drop from cache
Even if you averaged 3k per week.. it's 4750. Patch has had currency active for 14 resets including today. That's 42k @ 3k per week. That's 8.8 items.
And imo that is on the upper end
I don't think I've averaged 3k per week across all the weeks
rigid mango
white wyvern
Still no where close to your proposed 20 rolls...
rigid mango
fleet anchor
Sure but like.. you're gonna keep at least 2-3 of the items for your primary gearset. More if you are maintaining an Outlaw set. I don't really think most people are just Scrapping most of their 475s tbh
crimson palm
y maybe the 20 was over exaggerate
crimson palm
checking my scrapped items history i had 12 rolls
fleet anchor
If you are scrapping and actually getting heroic gear to DE I could see getting up to 12 sure
Although I personally haven't gotten a heroic item that wasn't a sale run in a long time
Like 1-2 pieces from Carapace coins trying to get the dagger 😛
I do think there may be an argument for it not being a terrible idea to spam for 465 pieces if you wanted to get started though
If you are done with your normal 475s and just want the traits for M+/HVs
Although speaking of scrapping, I may junk this terrible Enveloping Leviathan piece I just got since I don't think it's an upgrade for a single one of my gear setups for any of our 3 specs
lol
jade echo
hey guys i need help cant' understand why my assa simc 2 k less than my outlaw, https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6PW8SFucswmuCMvrMyTAbm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/t31cq1aFWsTcApqfkGvViQ
minor garden
fleet anchor
@drifting cloud Think it's solid for Outlaw. But imo Slithering Loa is stronger
I have two Slithering Loas atm.. one for Outlaw and one for Assassination 😛
jade echo
anyone can help me ?
scarlet sequoia
yes
jade echo
do you have idea why my assa simc so low compared to my outlaw ?
scarlet sequoia
because your gear is worse for assa than it is for outlaw
jade echo
thx but where can i improve my gear on assa
scarlet sequoia
everywhere
honest vessel
daggers.
scarlet sequoia
weapons could be a start
jade echo
subterfuge actualy the way to play rn ?
tropic charm
I know it varies depending from boss to boss, but is there like a “universal” time to select for raid fights to get a good idea?
drifting cloud
5min
lone junco
@tropic charm yeah the sims are +/- 20% so 4 to 6 mins. 5 min is the normal sim time.
tropic charm
Sweet, thank you guys!
keen current
Sorry if this has been discussed before. What kind of gear/stats makes difference between Blood+MA build and Breath/CLF major in ST fights? I notice everybody uses Blood even for pure ST but Blood has never been higher in sims for me.
I could just believe in what sim says but the popularity of Blood is so high and my gear isn’t extremely crit heavy (around 1800) so I just don’t get the sim result.
my sim result when comparing the two builds for reference: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gGk45C3Smcxcgv4dPZb3Qc
fleet anchor
Honestly, the popularity of blood is high because most people haven't revisited their essence preferences even though our gear is monumentally different than the start of the tier. And people don't like changing their gameplay pattern when they are used to using Blood already and it's relatively close.
At the end of the day you couldn't probably roll out any of the top 4 Majors and do almost identical damage when adjusted for the ridiculous RNG of Corruption procs. 😛
chilly marsh
^ really dont matter anymore when procs are 30% your dmg...
naive vigil
hmmm
strange python
but you dont have any lucid so idk
cerulean kernel
@jade echo just using your outlaw shoulders for sin set would make it sim
higher than outlaw
daring ridge
does C&S major make sprint usable for kiting bloods on shad mythic? im assuming it does from reading but want to make sure
scarlet sequoia
dont do that
royal lantern
^^^^^^^^^^
dont waste a major slot for something that has a chance too not even hit you once for the entire fight AND can be done with other people
fleet whale
obviously you should use Ripple in Space for Shad'har to teleport away from the blobs /s
surreal bolt
Anyone know how many expulsom you get back for scrapping 460 engi helm?
lean marten
can u CLF with prepot or have to restealth
fathom swift
you have to restealth but just don't use it in stealth and you can restealth instantly
static coral
Is Exsanguinate competitive at all for raid or up to 15 mythics?
lament adder
I too would like to know the answer to the above question on Exsanguinate
I just returned from a 1 year break having a kid XD
bleak spoke
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cGPks49qLZcrybrRrxrFBL man IS actually pads the shit out of my sim it looks so bad when i don't check those pieces
@arctic walrus @gusty kestrel you think i play honed mind or strikethrough for nzoth? honed mind sims just a bit better not sure which would be actually better in practice
tough skiff
Can somebody help me out improve my sim with the bad corrupted items I have? 
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3dVDCHA4Kvhg57Lf3JHPdE
arctic walrus
yeah I would go with the strikethrough as well
bleak spoke
ite
versed mica
PB is simming higher than CT for dungeon slice, but I often hear people use CT. Which do I use?
Also, is bote still just better, or is hose king now? I sim 4k dps more with hose
subtle tundra
whats a hose
versed mica
essence of the focusing iris lmao
subtle tundra
No, it's not better
versed mica
How do sims do it wrong then?
arctic walrus
Don’t use dungeon slice for sin it is inaccurate
versed mica
What should I use then?
arctic walrus
Go with pb always or you can pick up crimson tempest in more aoe heavy dungeons
Blood 3 always as well
versed mica
Should I just sim with hectic add cleave, or 3 bosses?
bleak spoke
just sim 6t patchwerk
sterile ocean
versed mica
6 targets? lmao bruh
I guess I'll try thsat
Why 6 over any other number? @bleak spoke
solid vapor
im tryin to help my brother and i dont know much about rogues at all
rigid mango
Depends on a lot of factors though, can't really compare if you're playing a diff level of content/you've not played since patch release.
solid vapor
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sUracg4kuPFahPvmsb5xvv his just seems so damn low
but idk about selection of gear and such
rigid mango
Because he has one corruption item
That is actually used
hc azerite, one that's particularly bad
Lacking sockets
Lacking good trinkets
etc etc
solid vapor
is that corruption not good?
versed mica
it's super good when you can take full advantage of it, but sin has low apm, so it doesn't proc as much for sin as other classes/specs
solid vapor
ah
solid vapor
damn
rigid mango
That's just an IS sim tho
Kinda irrelevant to make that a baseline sim for what to use
Since you shouldn't be using it most of the time
solid vapor
he mainly arenas but trying to get back into some raiding to
versed mica
Speaking of which, is it feasible to use an IS III and II? Or will mixing the II (higher item level) with other corruptions end up being better>
?
thin sapphire
Last updated: Friday, 14th January 2020 – Old gods await
is the guide still relevant like
at all
thin sapphire
the guide in the channel info
static coral
Is Exsanguinate viable at all in raid or up to mythic 15’s?
rigid mango
Yes
Yes @thin sapphire for the most part but IV or Wowhead are probably better resources
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
rigid mango
Read any of the above^
strange python
hows assas doing
rocky holly
noob question but i feel like parsing as sin on the last 3-4 mythic bosses is all mindflay procs? is there a build around procing crazy mindflay or is just really just rolling the RNG dice
i say parsing, but i really mean ANY meaningful overall damage at all
rigid mango
Assa is more than fine rn, but nothing special :^)
strange python
what about subt?
strange python
outlaw?
rigid mango
Bruteforcing logs by relying on it is one way
or just good corr in general
Outlaw is quite mediocre in raids but giga in m+.
rocky holly
i feel like i have good corr, but my logs don't match sims. can i show someone sims + raid logs and maybe get a few pointers?
if anyone has time
wary herald
Unavailable, do you run sin in raids and outlaw in M+?
I typically run outlaw always but am building a sin set
rigid mango
No I run sin everywhere
wary herald
gotcha
wary herald
daggers have been my issue with switching
finally got....445 carapace dagger today
better than nothing
true nexus
zine what trinkets would you run here in m+
rocky holly
most recent ra-den kill https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/r3ZA8Ga47xXCMYJ9#fight=20&type=summary&source=34
rocky holly
mmm ok, nothing recent because extending but let me check
rigid mango
Extending on what 
rigid mango
ah fair then
rigid mango
Some random gaps in TB casts
rocky holly
wym
rigid mango
Yessir
rocky holly
hmm
rigid mango
You'd also preferably enter vendetta with 3+ CP
Seems fine for the most part though
bad
You overcapped 11 cp on raden with mut
= very bad
rocky holly
how much of that is crit mut's at 3 cp
hidden bay
Can u link ur recent Maut log zine? 
rigid mango
unsure if log is scuffed or you're just not using TB at all
Dunno when I last killed maut honestly
a month maybe
And none of it is, connor
That's all mutilates at 4+ CP
rocky holly
sometimes i get caught up in raid leading
rigid mango
Seal of fate overcapping isn't counted
rocky holly
hmmm
gotcha
biggest things you'd say are fucking use TB and vendetta with at least 3 cp?
rigid mango
Nah biggest thing by far is TB
If your windows look like that last screenshot
that's a huge issue
true nexus
zine let's say i dont wanna run coral in m+ should i just use a 465 harlan's
rigid mango
TB >>>>>>>>>>> Mut overcapping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small opener optimisation
in order of what you need to fix
and I knew u weren't gonna want to play coral
ofc not
dice probably
true nexus
i played coral all of season 3 im just residentsleeper on it
especially on non tyr week
rigid mango
Just click it smh
true nexus
i guess i could go severe 5 on gear + spyglass coral
rocky holly
thx for the tips btw much appreciated
true nexus
but rn i was just using td5 lul
rigid mango
No problemo
hidden bay
U lose a lot dmg if u don’t use tb more often since u play 3x dd 
true finch
what is the main HoA ability you want to use for sin?
rocky holly
the ideal window is refreshing bleeds right as TB comes up to get only fat envenoms right?
hidden bay
Refresh if pandemic hits 
rigid mango
refreshing inside is fine
rocky holly
its not a big loss?
rigid mango
but if you refresh within ~3s of pandemic hitting if that means you don't have to refresh inside of tb, that's a gain also
It's fine, yeah
rocky holly
im still a little fuzzy on pandemic and how to maximize it; its just refreshing garrote at ~5s and rupture at ~7s to get the extended time right?
to what is it like 23s and 31s respectively?
rigid mango
5.4s on garrote, 7.2s on 5cp rupture
hidden bay
5.4? For garrote and rupture depending on cps
rigid mango
Rupture is 7.2 or 6.4 depending on 5 or 4 cp
rocky holly
got it
versed mica
CT or PB for M+? People have told me both, CT sims better
rigid mango
They're give or tkae interchangable, both work bae
versed mica
mk
rigid mango
But never CT in kr/siege/ws
Packs aint big enough and bosses matter too much in comparison
rocky holly
talking about the first garrote in the opener: is it ok to shadowmeld + garrote once the opening garrote hits 5s?
versed mica
So CT for big pack dungeons, PB for smaller packs/important bosses. Got it
rigid mango
PB can be used everywhere tho.
I don't use CT anymore bec I just play for low target/prio
Meld doesn't apply subterfuge ^^
versed mica
My M+ group tank isn't a fan of pulling a punch of stuff, so maybe I should just stick to PB
rigid mango
But shrouded suffocation is applied, on a boss fight
but w/e subterfuge
w/o*
Yeah idk I just let others do the aoe blasting
I aint got the setup for it
rigid mango
You vanish garrote when it hits pandemic or right after it ends ye
You miss a tick if you do it within pandemic iirc but barely matters honestly
versed mica
You delay 2nd vendetta for vanish, right?
rocky holly
once vanish comes back up again whats the prime window
rigid mango
I play VoP minor so I don't
rocky holly
no worries sorry hahaha
rigid mango
VoP major stinks I aint touching that
rocky holly
for raid?
rigid mango
bae I use vop minor and use vanish freely on trash, and align vanish to 2nd vend instead
VoP major is too inconsistant for me to use on prog
and the bosses that I actually do on reclears now
It's bad on
rocky holly
carapace / nzoth you'd say BoE?
rigid mango
I wouldn't ever use it outside of trying to parse bosses on reclears
I stay bote, yeah.
rigid mango
Havn't really swapped off it this tier apart from botd shit for drest and general experimenting
Yes, even with 3 NP
versed mica
does bote + vop minor have good synergy?
rigid mango
I mean it means
You get essentially 2 openers
Standard opener on pull, and by the time vend is back up my vanish that I used on the trash before the boss is back up
and I'll use it together
outer lotus
Zine what do you sim for patchwerk?
outer lotus
Thanks!
rigid mango
This feels like outlaw shenanigans
My gear is mediocre @outer lotus
Raz sims for like 98k
arctic walrus
but your 🧠
rigid mango
Equally mediocre
outer lotus
Nah just wanted to check, havent seen any sin sims in a long time
rigid mango
It's v polarising
rocky holly
on carapace / nzoth prog what would you recommend i run? Bote major / vop, iris, breath?