No no no
#assassination
nimble mesa
fathom swift
my uptime on sims is 29%, that's about right for what you'd expect with vop
nimble mesa
Right now the question is: Is the algorithm supporting simc correct to be fair
I don't care so much anymore about the fights
If our underlying math is incorrect, it needs to be adressed
warm parcel
talking bout ven or np uptime
nimble mesa
Good point
faint harness
I think ppl arent arguing that, they are arguing that simc is overvaluing vop major
strange python
[9:31 PM] Kojiyama: RaidBots Nightly should now have some updates to Visions of Perfection behavior as reported in #tc-research but also based on testing Outlaw as well.
- Vision of Perfection (Major) now fully extends Nothing Personal on both the player and target (this was not previously the case in-game)
nimble mesa
I'm using https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mM5ukjxF7kbtLfuNyNLWGc as a starting point to say simc sims at 24.5%, but I might be an idiot who saw it wrong
strange python
this was march 26th
shy dust
That’s a minor
nimble mesa
Exactly, which is why I doubted myself
shy dust
And a 6 min sim for what it’s worth
nimble mesa
I'm an idiot, so gonna resim with major (I took the raw input of a previous log)
sullen pagoda
@nimble mesa i linked like 30mins ago a sim with np vop from yday
i didnt mean the old one xD
strange python
he got the spirit, just the wrong data
nimble mesa
36% is pretty damn right I'd say
Most parse I've seen were around this realm
with outliers of course
But that doesn't matter
warm parcel
Top gear doesnt really have a proper report afaik
cribs
Id suggest looking at like quick or stat weights one
As top gear is always profiles
now Im 
tho
o wrong gear
yea with minor only its at 24%
sullen pagoda
yea i mean he can do quick sim from there he just asked for sample of vop major
nimble mesa
Yeah I'm trying to edit the raw inputs of a previously linked simc to put vop major in
But code values aren't the most explicit (can't log it to check)
warm parcel
Yea and your posted report has a sample of vop minor
As its a profile sim
So the one in the opened report isnt whats shown on top gear
If Im able to explain this
sullen pagoda
ye i know what u mean, what i meant was he can press this https://i.imgur.com/Uk1hgn5.png
warm parcel
fair
shy dust
36% uptime
warm parcel
yea 36% looks like major
Looking at our huge sample sizes of 2 a week
Ive had around 31-38 or so uptime
faint harness
i'll contribute to the cause and play vop major today
i dont give a shit about my dps
so its fine
warm parcel
83k vop major 0 corruption gang 💪
strange python
idk what you mean every button less i have to press is a win in my book 
faint harness
i'll just fall asleep at the wheel
shrewd night
t6 expedient, t4 tendie, 1 racing pulse YYYEEEEEEBOIIIII
crimson palm
and you don't even need to worry about lining shit up
warm parcel
tbh
with 3np I feel like tb holding could have more importance
but havent bothered koji to try it out
shrewd night
but uh
crimson palm
you get 1 window only inside anyway?
faint harness
vop major is peak lazy gameplay
crimson palm
why hold
warm parcel
I mean
warm parcel
If you tb on cd
Your tb literally just runs out as ven comes off cd
So it doesnt hit the window
and I honestly havent even looked at what simc does
feelcraft would tell me to hold
and I dno bout exsang
just dont have expedients
crimson palm
ah i was running exasng and it lined up perfectly
fathom swift
I would expect tb to be better to buff np damage
crimson palm
goraks?
warm parcel
yeah exsangs nice as its exactly half of ven with vop
strange python
it relies on packing as much as possible into the 5sec blood window
i dont think vop major would work that well
crimson palm
vop exsang was outsimming bote for me
crimson palm
94k vs 92.7k or smth
crimson palm
i'm on my laptop atm don;'t have the sims, can link em later
warm parcel
I mean in general as its been discussed before
bote just sucks for the value it gives in stats
especially as minor
strange python
i'll nag you later
warm parcel
versus better choises like strife
crimson palm
sure
strange python
yea but exsang itself shouldnt be that good without dmg packing right?
it adds nothing, just speeds up
and if you dont use that speed with buffs you gain nothing
warm parcel
I mean that sped up dot dmg is during your ven
and should be 100% ep uptime
and as it speeds them up, it also gives you "more than 100% uptime" on the dots
aka you get more ticks in the same time over a fight you would get with no ex
this what I meant
this just "feels bad" for vop
warm parcel
strange python
yeaaaa good luck with that
vestal wren
does sound good, ill take it
royal lantern
any BotD gamers here?
crimson palm
depending on fight length you can fish a little bit for some procs
but its fkin awful xD
shrewd night
whats the problem, just proc it
strange python
botd was simming higher for me for a short time but couldnt be arsed
shrewd night
royal lantern
i mean
fathom swift
even if you vendetta at 1.34 and tb at 1.46 you still get 8/9s of the debuff within vendetta, it's not that bad
royal lantern
botd scales insane with neck lvl
warm parcel
So dont level up neck 
sullen pagoda
neck lvl 
any 84 gamers
strange python
wv with no allies is +900dps too for me 
warm parcel
84 neck too 
raven locust
Don't essences stop scaling at 85?
strange python
clf/wv is basically same dps for me
shrewd night
Lets rub our expedients in weaks face
sullen pagoda
does anyone else have problem of too many expedient pieces so you cant run some of them?
strange python
raven locust
I havent seen a single Expedient or Gushing wounds since 8.3 launch even with weekly mask clears
crimson palm
kek
fathom swift
yeah I've got like 4 ranks of expedient sitting in my bags most of the time
crimson palm
It's such a fkin bait it's insane
strange python
you're done with the game you dont need gear silly
crimson palm
First words I read are haste and 8%
vestal wren
blizz just knows how to jusify the player base
fathom swift
gotta keep up engagement with the new content
cause whos gonna run visions after you get sockets on everything
shrewd night
give me four more weeks and I can wear t6 exp and t6 tendie 
strange python
raven locust
Give me your corruptions please
boreal maple
crimson palm
raz noticed you precast clf in your logs, when do you do it?
scarlet sequoia
before we pull the boss
shrewd night
crimson palm
fathom swift
you just cast clf then stealth its pretty easy
scarlet sequoia
i try to do it on 1 @crimson palm
but its risky
so maybe do it on 2 or 1.5 or something
u have to get that + pot + stealth off
so bit unlucky if ppl pull early
crimson palm
yeh i'll play it safe
faint harness
so theres a 48 dps difference between darkheart chest and the one from carapce
but the darkheart has OP and HoD
and carapacci is TTK - NP 🤢
would you play the OP anyway
and gamble 40 dps
soft lily
I alway get Amp Corruption and it’s usually Mastery or Vers 
viscid lichen
hey guys Im raiding this tier as assassination and I had great parses at the start of the tier(orange and purple) which have steadily gone down for some reason and Im not sure
I used to do like 90% parses and be top dps in the guild now I am moving slowly but surely down and my parses are down by a lot
even on reclears I do less damage than I used to
strange python
did you get lucky corruptions early on?
strange python
viscid lichen
but Id say I have good corruptions now as well
strange python
faint harness
Maybe your RNG lord hasnt been with you
viscid lichen
this was my first raid with is
faint harness
And theres your problem
viscid lichen
thats always a possibility but Im wondering am I doing something wrong or am I just straight up unlucky
strange python
IS is like tossing a coin and hoping it lands on the edge
fathom swift
9 procs is pretty unlucky
civic hatch
Corruption is like tossing a coin and hoping it lands on the edge
Bfa is like tossing a coin and hoping it lands on the edge
viscid lichen
fair point
strange python
you get it 
viscid lichen
is there anything I could improve upon tho?
faint harness
Dance less with the devil if you care about your average dps
Also the further you get into the raid (later bosses) the harder it gets to parse cus the overall quality of players goes up
viscid lichen
fair point
so I should just keep doing what Im doing and hope for the coin to land on the side?
faint harness
or play less RNG corruptions
faint harness
Yo what is ur guild doing on xanesh
sullen pagoda
fathom swift
you also had rupture drop for like 7s and you envenomed the boss during that window
crimson palm
@faint harness i find it easier to parse on later bosses tho xD
viscid lichen
I envenom instead of rupture when I go into balls
crimson palm
no way to compete on farm bosses with korean overlords
faint harness
@crimson palm Yea but bigger sample size
its much harder to get good % logs when theres very few players
@viscid lichen almost all of your dps are doing grey log dps
viscid lichen
point
quasi flicker
hi
fathom swift
in case you didnt see above there's still rotational improvements you can make on that maut log @viscid lichen
warm parcel
70k for FK aint that bad tho
hidden bay
rotation 
warm parcel
Its just grey at this point cause people have farmed said instance for months
viscid lichen
@fathom swift where?
warm parcel
Heres our fk dps
fathom swift
your opener is bad and you dropped rupture for 7s during which you envenomed the boss
warm parcel
Yeah but so is player level
fathom swift
you cast envenom before vendetta or toxic blade or even garrote
warm parcel
Im not calling them week one proggers
So it makes sense to not have people do 100k dps
fathom swift
this is not a good opener
viscid lichen
ah thats just my bad on that one pull
ye
instead of 3rd mutilate
I go garrote
and vendetta
wv
and toxic blade
into envenom/muti spam
right?
fathom swift
ya
fathom swift
just prepot and the rupture thing i mentioned
fathom swift
ya
sudden chasm
hey, what essence do you guys use? is guardian still the best i've heard many going with blood
static glacier
don't feel bad if the whole raidteam is grey parsing, yours will suffer due to less uptime of lust / pots in the fight compared to faster kills.
royal lantern
@sudden chasm deepens right now tbh, people use blood VoP and breath major right now
strange python
I play whatever sims best
royal lantern
ye you should do that
woven bane
under what circumstances is VoP minor better than conflict?
sudden chasm
ty for the answers, i simmed some of my major and minor combinations..i was wondering doe when is the perfect time to refresh ur garrote and rupture?
lean marten
if running subt, never refresh garrote till it ticks out (the buffed ones)
dont refresh within TB window
otherwise just refresh on pandemics
sudden chasm
yeah im running 3x TB..what about rupture?
i saw some player refresh rupture at 7 sec remaining in the opener? is that correct?
fathom swift
what do you mean by 3x tb
sudden chasm
oh mb 3x DD
minor terrace
Good afternoon
sudden chasm
and toxic talent
lean marten
maybe they refreshed before a TB window
minor terrace
can i ask.Are there any mactos i need to use for assa rogue
im kinda new and dont know many things
strange python
Correct me if im wrong but 7 sec is pandemic if its full cp rupture right? So that means he just reapplied in pandemic
Im using a focus macro for tricks
marsh raven
@minor terrace , it depends on PvP / PvE. I would say that in PvP you mainly need macros for your cc and displacements. Either do it with "mouseover" macros or with focus / arena number macros (that allow to cast automatically to a certain ennemi). If you go for the focus, you need a macro to quicly set your focus.
There is a special macro for sap, that tries to sap anything in range, that is used against ennemy fufu.
You can find these online with those keywords ;)
In PvE i don't use macros specific macros, just some pvp mouseover ones. I think the most classic PvE macro is-> apply automatically TotT (trick of the trade) to a tank.
soft lily
I used to have tott bound to commonly used keys but in most cases it’s a waste of energy. Better off having tricks bound to a focus macro and use it pre-pull and in situations where adds spawn / Skittish weeks in M+
civic palm
Energy cost? o _O
fathom swift
yeah it doesnt cost any energy
soft lily
Guess I’ve played rogue longer than you have.
shrewd night
weird flex but ok
fathom swift
not keeping up to date on how abilities work in current expansion is a very weird flex
civic palm
The energy cost was removed in like WoD.
soft lily
Wasn’t meant to be a flex. Point was it’s better used per situation then having it on cd every chance you get.
civic palm
mmm, dunno about that but maybe it might have been, big doubt.
civic palm
15% damage for 6 seconds on a 30sec CD for 15 energy.
soft lily
It was removed in WoD. Aswell as it’s Damage increase
soft lily
You can use Droptimzer in raidbots. It will give you the dps increase values for each boss.
Based on your talents and azerite traits
tacit steppe
Raden has good trink/azerite, carapace has weapon/azerite, and nzoth azerite. Other stuff can be good for you obviously but those 3 carry the big stuff you probably want
fresh abyss
awesome, ty 🙂
tardy nimbus
if you go 3xSS do sims already account for the playstyle/rotation?
soft lily
I dont think sims open with G R G. For Single Target.
tardy nimbus
So you can't really count on sims for 3xSS build
soft lily
If you use the Quick Sim you can scroll down and read the battle report. It will show you the timestamps for abilities used in the 5-6 minutes
civic palm
[insert whacky musical theme after something silly happens]
It didn't for a while though, and was weird about it when it did for a bit there as well.
tardy nimbus
so it does open with G R G
scarlet sequoia
yes sir
tardy nimbus
Guess it always does when you take Subterfuge
scarlet sequoia
why would u not take subterfuge with 3x ss
tardy nimbus
ok x3 sims dogshit for me atm
fathom swift
why would you take ss without subterfuge
tardy nimbus
not saying you would not take it lol
just saying sims use G R G if you take subt regardless of SS or not
soft lily
Subterfuge sims high even without SS
tardy nimbus
correct or wrong?
rigid mango
wrong
fathom swift
it definitely doesnt rupture for 1 combo point without ss no
tardy nimbus
ah ok so it just does it when you have atleast 1 ss
scarlet sequoia
without ss sims do
tardy nimbus
roger that
scarlet sequoia
g m r
tacit steppe
Subt still sims high regardless of SS... still higher for me than MA without SS traits, but it doesn’t open g-r-g
Probably a lot of haste with exang but idk i only play sin for pure st dmg and my highest setup doesn’t use ss
tardy nimbus
So i guess Expedient,Racing Pulse,Honed Mind maybe?
soft lily
Depends what you are doing. I’ve been trying out crit/mastery with exsang in dungeons
tardy nimbus
For ST mainly
tacit steppe
Maybe but again I’m just spitballing, I don’t have the gear setup for it nor have i tried to make a setup work for it
soft lily
DD sims higher for me than SS
tardy nimbus
yh currently sims higher for me as well but maybe im just using the wrong combinations in sims only have 5,5m Iterations 😂
shrewd night
afaik triple ss doesnt really start shining until very late
aka carapace azerite and shit
soft lily
SS is better for Cleave
tacit steppe
I bought the 16mil sub and has been 👌🏽 since corruption is a thing, that and all the diff majors that can be used
soft lily
I have it too, I dont feel like it’s enough 😂
tardy nimbus
@shrewd night yh missing carapace on mythic
tacit steppe
It’s not enough still but better than the 5.5 lol
tardy nimbus
im guessing you want SS+Heart of darkness
tacit knoll
ss trait affects only the garrote that is casste from stealth?
soft lily
Yes @tacit knoll
shrewd night
ye, ss/heart and goraks with the crit shit
tacit steppe
Yeah
royal pewter
does SS work with shadowmeld? Doesn't get the CD reset so I assume it doesn't get the damage increase?
scarlet sequoia
ss works with meld yes
royal pewter
okay, neat
scarlet sequoia
night elf is by far the best race for the build
tacit steppe
My trait setup is exactly the same as that
soft lily
Does spyglass and Coral sim higher than vita?
tardy nimbus
for me it does
tacit steppe
Does for me as well
tardy nimbus
maybe not mythic version
muted sail
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jfD3j98z7SD3NdB363VosP how do i use Breath of the dying major ?
soft lily
I see mostly Vita and coral in Wow Logs
feral flare
Question about stat weights. Right now ive got crit and haste pretty balanced at 7.14 and 7.07. With vers at 6.86. Is this okay? Or should I strive to tip the scales towards fully towards crit? Seeing is how I have more of it.
tacit steppe
fathom swift
stat weights arent important dps is
soft lily
Depends on your amps
tacit steppe
If I had a dime for every time a person asked about stat weights/soft caps/what to shoot for 
tardy nimbus
feral flare
Im just curious if its ideal to seek a balance or go all in on one.
tardy nimbus
could prob get it a little higher
fathom swift
people got stat weights drilled into them and now that theyre irrelevant they dont know what to do
use whatever sims higher dont even look at stat weights
feral flare
How would I tell what sims higher? What am I simming? The stat weight sim is just a stat weight sim that dictates how much dps you get out of a given value.
So if at the moment I have crit/haste balanced.
fathom swift
you sim the damage
tacit steppe
Select the pieces you want to compare/combo
scarlet sequoia
feral flare
Im not comparing gear. Im just looking at stat weights.
tacit steppe
For what?
soft lily
Personally I onlyuse stat weights when I want to regem / enchant gear
feral flare
Overall. The stat weight sim.
tacit steppe
Yes but what do you need them for?
fathom swift
you dont need to compare gear you compare gems and enchants
tacit steppe
Or what do you think you need them for
fathom swift
even food buff you can sim
feral flare
To dictate what gear is useful or not... For instance. Mastery is bad. I avoid mastery.
tacit steppe
Gems you can sim too 
shrewd night
tacit steppe
So... to compare gear
shrewd night
thats not how you sim, buddy
tacit steppe
lmao
feral flare
I know this because of the stat weights.
shrewd night
Thats not how itt works.. For gear you want to get - droptimizer. For gear you already have - top gear.
feral flare
No not to compare gear. To know which gear to look for.
tardy nimbus
I use same gear with sockets for Outlaw so i just take take either Crit/Vers gems 
shrewd night
Droptimizer then.
feral flare
Yes I do that too
tacit steppe
soft lily
If you end up getting mastery amp gear with Crit Haste stats, mastery will shift up the totem pole for you. Then you’ll be aiming for mastery again.
worldly sandal
i dont even look at stat weights. im not gonna pretend to know better than the computer that calculates what i should get
feral flare
It really has nothing to do with gear. More just optimization of stats via gemming and enchants. With gear I get what I get. I want to optimize what I currently have.
shrewd night
@feral flare https://medium.com/raidbots/beware-of-stat-weights-240769a5323e read this.
tacit steppe
You can sim enchants and gems too
glacial crypt
Anyone got a quick dubgeonslice sim I can see?
shrewd night
And if you dont want to read it, read at least the TLDR
worldly sandal
optimization of enchants and gems is literally what they were talking about when they said use top gear
shrewd night
fathom swift
you can sim gem and enchant combos in top gear too
worldly sandal
@muted sail what do you mean by using BotD major? in dungeons?
muted sail
In raid
tardy nimbus
@shrewd night Yup all possible SS sims lower for me without mythic Cara chest
just need to wait i guess
tardy nimbus
i mean im happy with my DD sim
really want to get rid of all Mind flay's tho
or replay them for 485/475 ones
shrewd night
Sure, hand them over
tacit steppe
You can give them to me
worldly sandal
^
tacit steppe
tardy nimbus
😂
soft lily
I get nothing but leech or vers corruption
shrewd night
In four weeks I can wear another tendie, so would be neat to have one in my back pocket already
scarlet sequoia
how much do u sim with ur highest build @tardy nimbus
soft lily
This week i got the bike trinket from my cache
scarlet sequoia
did u not see what i linked
tacit steppe
Literal 5k more than mine and mine uses IS
soft lily
Follow your heart
tardy nimbus
If only i did 88k in game lul
wet ruin
for the sim you can get more by changing your food and/or pot
tardy nimbus
yh gonna try it now
fathom swift
exsang sims higher for me with 1 ss than with 2 or 3 too
scarlet sequoia
it does that until u get to my gear lvl
3x ss is better for me by like 200 dps
i wouldnt play 2x dd with exsang etc over 3x ss tho
if u play the build just commit fully
cobalt pelican
it can smell your fear
fathom swift
what do you mean by your gear level
soft lily
Make ttk work for me lol
fathom swift
there aren't any azerite pieces in the game that sim as high as what i currently have, only corruption could change that significantly
scarlet sequoia
moment ill show
tardy nimbus
Yh @scarlet sequoia give me ur gear ty
scarlet sequoia
not gonna miss an opportunity to flex
tardy nimbus
flexxxxxxxxxxxx
soft lily
I haven’t seen 1 IS drop for me
tardy nimbus
@scarlet sequoia are you RL friends with ion?
fathom swift
even with 50 corruption worth of expedient it doesnt sim better
wet ruin
IS though
scarlet sequoia
go nelf bro
soft lily
Does SM negate TFB?
fathom swift
im not paying 30$ for farm parses
fathom swift
lemme see how much of a difference nelf is for me atm
scarlet sequoia
1k+ i guarantee
tacit steppe
Imagine not being a broke boi
tardy nimbus
yh has to be pretty big
tacit steppe
scarlet sequoia
its more than 1k for me and im troll
so id imagine its pretty massive from gnome
civic palm
Just be NELF from the beginning O _O"
crimson palm
that's cuz SS benefits from meld
civic palm
So does NELF half the time O _O
fathom swift
its like 700 dps more hmm do i wanna spend the gold tho
scarlet sequoia
@glacial crypt just keep grinding
crimson palm
yeah it's around 700
glacial crypt
Nah Assa ismy offspec this tier, progging nzoth with outlaw
crimson palm
human 2% racial is pretty strong
scarlet sequoia
outlaw
tacit steppe
crimson palm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tr7ENYuRcMeD2jNrgiZKSd i'm closing on to you 
fathom swift
nelf makes gorak tuls a very small upgrade like sub 100 dps, thats it tho still not even 800 total dps idk if I wanna spend 250k on that
crimson palm
that's 2 weeks i can catch up xD
but doubt we kill nzoth in 2 weeks so no vita for me still
midnight folio
What’s the best stat corruption besides gw for sin
woven bane
is the VoP build actually worth playing or is it just some sort of meme build?
cobalt pelican
both
woven bane
Well guess i have to try it out
fathom swift
anyone got a usable wa for tracking exsanged bleeds
white wyvern
If you can't remember what target you Exsanged you got other issues.
fathom swift
uh i can remember the target
lone junco
Exang returns to its natural state. as bis.
white wyvern
Not sure what you are looing for then.
lone junco
exang bleeds tracker have never worked as far as I remember. Mizerok had one for the Subterfuge
lone junco
haste ? or vers
fresh abyss
vers
lone junco
doubt.
agile geode
hey i got a question
fathom swift
Not sure what you are looing for then.
@white wyvern so i dont overwrite the bleeds before they run out?
agile geode
i just returned and i got BiS 420 ilvl head and shoulders, should i change them to 465 with not good stuff in it?
lone junco
the Bleed tracker I use has Clear indication of times for Rupture and Empowered exang. You just need to know that you hit exang. and its a fast run time. so just remember you pressed it. and let it run out.
white wyvern
🤔 So you can't remember what target you Exsanged?
Pretty sure there is no way to differentiate between regular bleeds and Exsanged bleeds.
fathom swift
I mean I found a weakaura that does garrote just bugs on rupture for whatever reason
and I can obviously remember the target im not 60iq jesus dude
white wyvern
Then I don't get what the problem ius.
fathom swift
its just like theres no reason not to track it if its easy to
lone junco
Exang is pretty important. just Know that it is your damage button and watch it run out.
lone junco
guess people get used to TB hit and forget.
tardy nimbus
i started at 87k lol
fathom swift
🙄
cobalt pelican
i've only ever seen ones that work with garrote for some reason too
lone junco
the Empowered garrote tracker is nice.
fathom swift
yeah its the exact same code for both idk why it doesnt work
but idk how to use lua either so
lone junco
like you want flames around your rupture WA to say it was Exanged?
sounds cool
besides, if you got it working on Garrote, you dont need it on the Rupture.
fathom swift
why not? rupture lasts way longer after an exsang
white wyvern
Send me the Wago. I'd like to see how they would be tracking Exsang.
Also, why do you need to track it if you can remember who you Exsanged? I really don't understand.
lone junco
idk man. I played exang a lot longer than TB and exang is the spicy part. I just remembered that it was double time.
hes not worried about which target. just that he doesnt want to refresh the rupture early
fathom swift
ok so if I exsang and rupture goes down to 15s, I want to remind myself to not apply rupture again before it runs out
white wyvern
I Exsanged Wrathion > don't apply bleeds in pandemic. 🤔
lone junco
How about. when Exang is pressed, a WA just says EXANG for the next 10 seconds.
i know if you change targets yadda yadda. but if you gotta have something ,that is easy.
fathom swift
eh ill just use my large brain and remember its not that a big deal
just would be easy to incorporate into my ui if there was a weakaura that did track it
lone junco
big brain play is good.
white wyvern
I feel like that really is the best way (using your brain) as it is not hard to do. Especially in a raid environment.
lone junco
and its spicy anyway. the midblock exang is limp. but the one at vendetta should be easy to track
cobalt pelican
i know luxthos weakauras had an exsang functioning on garrote in 8.0
i've not used them in a long time but i imagine it's still there
idk why nothing ever works with rupture
cobalt pelican
and there's really not a good reason to not track it tbh, especially on progress where you're not 100% braining on your parse you kinda go into autopilot rotation sometimes
and it's nice to have stuff to make your autopilot not 20k dps
fathom swift
I mean in a raid enviroment is even more reason to track it, would you rather focus your mental capacity on remembering exsang or on boss mechanics
I don't think it's insanely hard or anything I just noticed I refreshed it 3-4s early once or twice on farm and wanted to help myself prevent that
lone junco
tbh, the middle ones dont matter. but the vanish ones do.
as far as brain power goes.
soft lily
@lone junco were you ever on Bonechewer US?
lone junco
no.
soft lily
Aww
lone junco
Cenarius/Blackrock/Thrall
soft lily
I’m on Thrall, Small world
lone junco
druid main this tier.
which i hate.
I dont hate, but thats for a differnt channel
got Chest off Carapice last night. no dagger. but it doesnt sim me out of 3dd MA. hopefully I get a 480 ss hat or something soon.
fallow dune
ive really been considering playing my 120 rogue, but im looking for a class and spec thats a little more slow on the apm and that can handle doing solo content(visions etc), out of all the rogue specs assassin is my fav, how does it fair?
strange python
is there a way to sim higher neck level?
vast forum
assa is the lowest APM i think and is the best for visions
@fallow dune
probably the best vision spec in the game, except maybe havoc DH
fathom swift
yeah edit your profile, it'll say azerite_level=x in your neck string
fallow dune
like currently my rogue has ZERO gear and its a struggle, im not the best player, so i just want something a little easier and i enjoy not having to spam buttons
strange python
tyvm
lone junco
assassin as a whole, is slower than most. and does great single. Good cleave, and good aoe once you get the Fan of knives azerite.
with the garrote traits you can take out the visions packs quickly
agile geode
any assa online that could take a look at my items and tell me what i should use?
fallow dune
sounds perfect, again i have a 120 warrior and monk that i got leveled quickly thanks to 100% exp and skyhold, but i just got back into wow and want to play a melee dps and something thats a little on the slower side. also it helps rogues are usually always good
lone junco
gl
the vanish cooldown portion of assassin is typ like 10 seconds long that you need to get right. then filler until the next round 2 mins later.
so its a pretty peaceful spec
oh and spend cps at 4 or 5. you dont always need 5.
fallow dune
thanks @lone junco yeah the vanish part of the rotation is not confusing, but i guess ill adjust to it
lone junco
it changes based on traits and talents
fallow dune
again, i just got back into wow, havent played this xpac, so i have no traits
lone junco
then make sure to do the 3 emmisary quests to get the gear boxes. they are a nice catchup. and also youll have a lot of quests to get the cloak rolling. I used a contract to get my rep up for the sand people. Breath of the dying rank 3 is super nice.
afk.
oh and the daily quests for the follower in najatar is important for "Lucid" essence. do those
fallow dune
okay go buy sand people contract, and keep up with the najatar daily's plus other daily's, awesome thanks
lone junco
yeah, the little follower has about 3 ? quests a day. I used the mage guy. but once he gets to rank 15 or so you get R3 of the energy refund essence.
this is where someone else chimes in and is like "L2P Nub"
gg
cunning blaze
When do you use bote with the subterfuge opener without ss traits?
soft lily
I use it after casting vendetta for TB’d Envenoms
soft lily
TB should be used on CD but keep in mind its best to reapply Rupture Outside of the TB window.
lone junco
+25crit dmg to the mut tb env mut env thats about 5 sec of good pwn.
hope your crits are good.
this looks nice.
soft lily
Looks like a music sheet
lone junco
too bad his muts didnt crit
assassin cooldown windows are like a small symphony of bleeds and burst.
i dig it
the opener for exang is really nice as well. about 15? seconds long
soft lily
I wish Gushing was effected by Exsang
soft lily
If only I could get some
I got the heroic cara dagger the first week I went and raid bots told me to cleanse it 😦
soft lily
Don’t think so
lone junco
max lvl azerite and good corruptions, i dont de/cleanse shit. cause you cant just "go get it again"
i wonder if you vendored, then recovered, would it get the corruption back. doubt.
soft lily
Only if you DE / vendor with the corruption on it
lone junco
druid bags are stuffed with gear. 4 specs. raid/M+/pvp is a lot
soft lily
I wish reforging azurite was free and could be done in rested areas.
lone junco
tomes would make that really nice.
id burn tomes to get EB for hyvemind. but as it is, I just glue to the boss.
sour glade
You just made me realize I should pop on my m+ azerite for hivemind.
lone junco
yeah. Our other rogue has some, I do not.
so I just sorted by boss damage, and cringe smile
someone has to kill the boss right?
sour glade
Though honestly I probably shouldn't. Me just doing boss damage is probably better because we have fire mages and a DH using fel barrage there.
lone junco
I would feel better about Fok ENV on boss, if I had something other than DD.
cunning blaze
With the subterfuge no ss trait build, do you vanish on cd when empowered garotte drops or do you hold it for vendetta?
soft lily
If you run VOP minor I would vanish on cd
carmine cave
469gs and sim 65k dps ... :/
soft lily
Sounds like you could use some corruption
soft lily
I wouldn’t use WV as agil sucks for us
carmine cave
what would you use?
ember mural
VoP is not a very good ST essence unless you have the corruption/gear to go with it
sim yourself for your essences
carmine cave
need 1k more honor for bote rank 3 i will have a look
lone junco
@cunning blaze vanish and vendetta should always align with Subterfuge or MA.
(idk about VOP though)
carmine cave
for now WV / Bote rank 2 and VoP are not so different in sims
lone junco
neat
crimson palm
@scarlet sequoia any reason you run bote on n'zoth apart from the extra usage on basher? i'm looking into clf and usage would be like 5 8 and 11 which means it will pump hard during final burn
scarlet sequoia
idk just havent bothered trying clf, feel like it would be super awkward
blood is just nicer tbh
and we kill the boss before we get mc'd so last phase is kinda whatever
crimson palm
ah makes sense
i think it's good because you can cast early on psychus and ramp up some haste
get a big exsang there
and a big exsang at the end
mystic fractal
VoP simming 1% improvement for me on ST when i reforge to 3xNP
may play with it in heroic tonight
scarlet sequoia
we also kill psychus before i get to use cds most of the time so its completely irrelevant
mystic fractal
doesn't change much other than vend/vanish on CD right?
crimson palm
ah lmao
first world problems 😄
we time it 2:10 with 2:30 exit so it's like perfect
(2:10 lust)
scarlet sequoia
yeah we didnt lust down there this week
but timers were completely fucked and fight was super chaotic cus we boosted 2 people
strange python
Do the boostees just jump off at the start, or do you let them do some damage until mechanics come up and then they jump off?
Out of curiosity
crystal vault
whats the best way to check vision major proccs on warcraftlogs?
remote latch
Hello guys, a quick question, sorry if it has been asked before but, which burst potion do you use on raid with Assa ? I see a lot of different answers on internet... thank you 🙂
faint harness
@crystal vault check nothing personal uptime
hazy quartz
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=10725/gnomish-battle-chicken
@rancid bobcat
It is an item from classic, but it was still working in previous expansions. I took a break from wow over the last couple expansions and wasn't sure if this item had been deprecated in the meantime.
vestal wren
whats the use case of the item?
crimson palm
@scarlet sequoia clf is the way lmao
scarlet sequoia
is that psychus pad
quasi pewter
lilac sparrow
My sims always pick Azshara's Font of power, but why most of rankers on WCL use vita?
lone junco
@crystal vault just look at debuff casts of vendetta
there will be long streaks and short ones.
pliant token
yo what are best m+ to run for gear 🙂 ?
soft lily
TD for Daggers, FH and SOB for trinkets
lone junco
arent the if/then rings good for rogue? if you get the haste buff then
lone junco
i got a plumage, but it sims pretty low for ST. kinda bummed on that one.
well, beat by a 465 socketed GCB
lone junco
GCB is ok. just annoying on movement.
my sim has me at 3DD. I should just say fuck it and run the SS subterfuge exang and start making my gear work with that.
baby gear still though. only have a R3 tendy for damage corruption.
how much haste are the 90k guys running before buffs. , like 33%?
scarlet sequoia
47%
tacit steppe
Uhhhhh
weary marten
hey guys ! i'm trying vision of perfection major and simcraft told me to play subterfuge. I was wondering about the opener, should i double garrote ?
or if any of you could tell me what it should look like
devout salmon
Nothing Personal and Longstrider or Double Dose and Vamperic Speed for Visions? Both have SS outer trait and Heed my Call. Same ilvl
tacit steppe
@weary marten you don’t dbl garrote
Garrote mut to 4/5 rup mut to 4/5 vend tb burst
If you have SS might change but assuming you don’t if you’re 3np 3dd
weary marten
and even when i vanish later on, it's a single garrote usage ?
thanks for info
i'm 3 NP / 2 DD / 1 stat thingy
tacit steppe
Ya basically just use it to get emp garrote
tacit steppe
Pretty much cuz with random procs the timings will get wonky
I’m sure there’s some optimization to be made like if it’s coming up within x seconds you can hold
lone junco
I would expect that you delay 2nd vanish to line up with something.
tacit steppe
But it’s probably minimal
lone junco
yeah. on fights that are less than 4 mins, you can delay that 2nd vanish quite a while.
tacit steppe
But if you get a vop proc can prob go ahead and use
lone junco
we used to deal with this in legion with the COF trinket and the Vendetta CDR traits.
the vop vendetta is going to be short, and the vanish subterfuge garrote is like 18s.
w/e you do you boo
tacit steppe
I played with it last night and it’s not largely different the build is a gambling build anyway
So can pay off or you can get unlucky
lone junco
sounds pretty straight forward. Just bummer if that vop goes on an add.
azure pewter
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
kindred sphinx
if you are running shrouded suffocation double garrote is more dps
surreal bolt
What’s more important in m+, eb or ss?
honest vessel
ss
vocal ginkgo
What would be our best corruptions for raid besides gushing?
crimson terrace
what do i do after i get my 50th echoing void from chest/vision
do i put in the credit card?
keen dome
wait for the leech or avoidance ones
vast forum
still waiting to learn what it feels like to have an expedient piece
or a gushing wound
rancid bobcat
Just keep playing
crisp hollow
deeper strat is simming above vigor for me on a bunch of builds ST
is this simbait or does it have its place in practice?
warm parcel
what exactly is a simbait
warm parcel
I mean stars do exactly what theyre supposed to on a single target
Raids arent that
Theres nothing that limits ds to a single target
tacit steppe
Cannon ball runner is bout the only thing i would call sim bait
shy dust
probably high haste
expedient, etc
at the end of the day if it sims higher then it does more damage
not a meme like IS is seen to be
crisp hollow
my 3x SS setup currently sims higher than my 3x DD setup
im super okay with this
warm parcel
I mean even IS will perform if you give it the conditions sim has
Aka one target and it has to last longer than 3 minutes that some bosses like doggo last
crisp hollow
yeah I think its fine on shadhar and even inquisitor
i had moderate success with it on nzoth too just on the basis that pulls were so long he would be guaranteed to have 10 stacks but i never really paid attention to how effective it was for the final burn with the adds there
warm parcel
Yeah nozoth is long enough of a boss to cut off the rng of getting no stacks at all
But in general I would just not recommend stars for proge as its really swingy
For parsing its all about 🙏
crisp hollow
yeah i'd gamble on stacking tendies if i wanted to parse
same prayer but a slightly hedged bet lol
warm parcel
Yup
crisp hollow
im extremely down to just run triple SS setup until I get both 490 azerites to use the 3x NP setup
with visions major lol
warm parcel
The ultimate lazy man build
lone junco
@crisp hollow when your Energy supply caps, sim will shift you from Vigor to DS. happens with a dick load of haste procs on top of Vendetta. Is why you see people shifting to crit gems. They literally have enough haste for the cooldown portions of the fight.
warm parcel
Yes and no
As haste is still gigavalue for them just because of the 12 ranks of expedient
And how haste is just good for exsang
sure having plenty energy overflow lessens value of vigors 10%
crisp hollow
the 3x NP setup with high ilvl pieces is my best ST sim by miles
(i'm assuming the 70 will be 58 by the time I actually have it lol)
I'm of the personal belief it's way less troll than it appears but that could just be me wanting any change to assassination playstyle
fathom swift
It's just rng
strange python
Ive played vop major today and ive liked it idk it sims like 2k above bote for me so ill keep using it
fathom swift
Just wouldnt suggest it on like nzoth or carapace prog
strange python
Those are fights where ill play outlaw i think
fathom swift
Not a fan of outlaw on nzoth but depends what your guild needs
strange python
Im not a fan of nzoth tbh
crisp hollow
i'm done prog im just playing what hits harder now
fathom swift
If you wanna parse sure vop has more potential for highroll
lavish swallow
Hi! Is NP dmg buffed by mastery?
warm parcel
and tb
crisp hollow
how does deeper strat impact the opener/rotation?
desert orchid
opinion 465 harlans, or 475 galecaller's boon?
crisp hollow
ofc
unreal kayak
Depends if u can stand still for 10 sec w/o mechanics hitting you
desert orchid
thanks @drifting cloud , I will be glad to move to an expansion where everything doesn't equate to sim it
crisp hollow
don't hold your breath lol
strange python
What's bad about the concept of "Sim it"? If you really WANT the optimal result, simming it (and applying some logical sense) is the way to go.
If you don't need or care for being optimal, then choose what feels best or maybe makes some Sense to you.
desert orchid
unless you are squeezing out that last 1-2% dps, people can give a good answer besides sim it
warm parcel
But that answer is likely also incorrect
And now if you go by it and someone asks you and they follow you
The chain goes on
Hence it would be preferable for everyone to get the answer from a sim
crisp hollow
thats not even a problem the difference between galecallers and harlan's is pretty insubstantial and literally would comprise 2% of your dps
so comparing the two IS squeezing that last 1-2% dps
its just so lazy lol "sim it" is the best answer beyond really obvious things like "do I stack 3 scent of blood" and the definitive "no" came from people simming it anyway
desert orchid
but you see, that is the answer. A they are close. Harlans is easier to use. Sim it if you want to know for sure would have sufficed. I didn't know if the other was any descent or not
there's a lot of trinkets out there that are sim traps
warm parcel
Harlan is also damn useless when it cannot hit its targets
desert orchid
harlan's is the dice buffs
desert orchid
I didn't know if galecallers was a sim trap or not basically
warm parcel
theres nothing to trap
if you stand in it, it gives you a nice haste buff
if you dont, it doesnt do shit
fleet whale
depends if you want Rune of Power as a rogue 😛
warm parcel
Id personally not even look at the trinket
Sucks when it comes to any mechanic in the universe or corruption
mystic fractal
the buff is really quite large
area wise
is it that hard to find a sliver of it that isnt in poop when you use it?
echo cargo
Is there a point where stacking ineffible truths would be really good if you're running NP traits
warm parcel
It is if psychus is running 50 miles an hour and you have to smack him
Or if you get paranoia
Or have to run after a raden orb
Or get fixate on doggo
glacial crypt
Hiya
I've kind of neglected my sin rogue this tier, anyone mind helping me improve my sim dps?
currently progressing mythic nzoth, and I believe that having the hard focus on some targets might make me swap to sin at some point during prog
shy dust
Link a sim
glacial crypt
About to sim what I think would be the best, sec
I'd like expedient pieces, so I can scale myself into the exsanguinate build
glacial crypt
The raden one?
shy dust
Yep
glacial crypt
That would give me triple SS
shy dust
i doubt it would sim higher cause ilvl
drifting cloud
you have alot of better stuff that you didnt click 😛
shy dust
Yeah why not use gorak tuls?
drifting cloud
mecha set, coral
glacial crypt
I've got two gorak's that I'm using for two different outlaw builds
Triple Ace, and triple DS builds
shy dust
what a waste 
glacial crypt
Master assassin was best last tier, which is what I got used to playing
So I just used it goinginto this tier too c:
fathom swift
If you're planning on playing assa on prog you should probably be willing to reforge your better azerite tho
shy dust
subterfugue will probably end up better
glacial crypt
I am willing,
as far as I can see on wcl
Most rogues progressing mythic just now use the MA build
glacial crypt
simming just now to see
shy dust
versus your own character
shy dust
for nzoth most rogues run vop i think
also use coral its still a strong option for assassination
shy dust
minor
glacial crypt
I'm running vop minor, I believe
I'm not running vop minor, that's an issue
um
i went backwards
hold up im being an idiot xd
quasi pewter
ur 475 dagger should 100% be in ur mainhand
fathom swift
yeah you just have weird enchants etc. on
glacial crypt
All my gear rn is set up for outlaw
quasi pewter
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/f5QLzkQeyrR3qv8NYAi4Yu i got this just throwing together what i thought looked best
glacial crypt
Okay, simming what I currently run in my boost raids
I'd like to run <39 corruption on progress
This is what I currently run in boosts, fights don't normally last 5 minutes so the DPS is much higher
quasi pewter
if u scroll down a bit there is a set with 41 that you would be able to run next id
glacial crypt
x)))
quasi pewter
yes, vita is worth around 1,5k-2k raid dps
and ur dice only sims 500 dps better
so its worth sacrificing some of ur own dps
for progress
