overcapping energy in opener can happen with lust
#assassination
quasi pewter
strong oak
oki ty
quasi pewter
@worthy anvil If you've read the guides you can just try to practice on a dummy for a while. Helping you with rotation without logs is kind of hard unless you have a specific question.
worthy anvil
i parse 5-10% :s
quasi pewter
Your gear is not at a level where you should compare yourself to others.
strong oak
I think I need to swap to bote, unsure though. dont know how to sim for it.
because of phases and stuff
quasi pewter
But if you have logs that you would like someone to review, go ahead.
teal locust
Hey, why is blood good in single target.? I see a lot of assas using it in sng target, but i dont get it. Theres no combination in which blood sims better for me than guardian. Is there a specific reason behind it, why so many play blood?
crimson palm
Because what sims better for you does not mean it sims better for the whole population
vague rock
it lets you pad on adds a bit
strong oak
timings?
main forge
Whats the best fight on to gauge DPS on heroic? Looking into my DPS and I just hit 120 about a month ago, and the other players have been raiding since the tier came out.... but I feel like my DPS is ridiciously low, and I haven't played since WoD, and stopped raiding seriously in MoP
main forge
Okay, that's what I figured.... My sim showed 49k and I pulled 37k on that fight. Is that within reason? About to go to the store to grab things but just trying to work it out to make myself better... my daggers are 445, so that might be holding me back right?
drifting cloud
if you sim 49k weapons are probably the least of your problems π
and its only mainhand dagger that really matter anyways
honest vessel
if you're simming 49 and doing 37, you're rotation is probably messed up
and you need pretty much any heroic gear you can get your hands on
and other things
check out the guides again
see if you can catch mistakes
median igloo
So since deeper stratagem is starting to sim higher for me with a few setups, just want to confirm with DS it's refresh 6 pt ruptures with 8.4 seconds left and 5-6 pt envenoms?
honest vessel
for pandemic timer its just .3 * the duration of a 6 point rupture, which idr
but yeah, finish on 5-6
scarlet sequoia
np
harsh notch
Spamming fan of knives does more damage than fan of knives - envonom spam?
Ah nvm FoK is better searched up some guides
cobalt pelican
hwat
it depends on your traits and the amount of targets you're hitting
but the general answer is no
median igloo
Gotcha, ty raz
dense blaze
Why 20% on shiv and not 30%?
main tendon
hey just got some extra gear and knifes to make an assassin, what would be my go to Major and minor essences?
strange python
Bote lucid botd Iris for raid
Bote lucid botd vop/cns for m+
Would be some Standard Setups I guess
But sim yourself
chilly marsh
Blindside Mutilate has a 20% chance to make your next Ambush free and usable without Stealth. Chance increased to 40% if the target is under 35% health.
i really like a rogue execute hope its viable
strange python
And If you wanna be fancy don't forget about BotD major for some Fights/dungeons
main tendon
ty
rough charm
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
vital haven
@quasi pewter with vop major how do you time your tbs?
quasi pewter
no difference
vital haven
so just on cd?
quasi pewter
yes
vital haven
ok tyvm
proud salmon
for those that run vision minor do you get 3 vendettas in a fight but only two with a vanish increase from MA?
proud salmon
subterfuge?
no one ive seen runs subterfuge and double dose
nvm its like a mix
how comes you recommend subterfuge?
quasi pewter
Subterfuge sims higher for most people
void pecan
tacit steppe
dense blaze
Bonus rolled and looted shard
wheat bobcat
covert tapir
honest vessel
is it worth dotting a second target while in toxic blade on an already dotted main target?
or should you just wait for tb to end to dot
or should you dot both and then tb and then garrote 2nd when it comes back up
jaunty arrow
I would dot it, but depend on situation
hoary apex
Definitely not worth dotting a second target while in tb already.
you want 3 envenoms at least in your TB window
if it's a multi target situation, you should have enough dots rolling anytime TB comes up to always have enough energy to get at least 3 envenoms so not worth dotting again. If it's 2 target and you are opening I would dot both targets before TB. SS makes this way easier
warm plover
Is it worth playing a 475 galecaller over a 465 plumage in the deeper exanguinate build?
Like it Sims higher but everyone knows that galecaller can be a trap
patent topaz
why would it be a trap? it was used in exsang builds early in the expansion
warm plover
Yes I know but you need to count in boss movement etc, going to start cara prog on sunday so just wanted to know
patent topaz
The main thing is to snapshot its haste for exsang I think. But there are more qualified people to answer better
warm plover
Dont think the snapshot is a thing anymore, I hope it is
unreal salmon
dont want to interrupt you guys but i want to know on how many targets i should rupture active in m+ when there are 5-6 targets (crimson tempest build)
arctic walrus
doesn't matter just have 4 bleeds up
can be any combination of rupture and garrote
ct doesn't count though
galecallers it's just up to you, and how big of an upgrade it is over plumage
if you're playing it in raid, it's not so bad because you can predict certain moves and plan ahead
unreal salmon
thanks mate
faint harness
Sin getting alacrity?
patent topaz
tb was still a talent that just reduced the cd on shiv but who knows
scarlet wing
Maybe a dumb question but what would u say. I fight against carapace. Are flat stats like severe better than rank 3 stars or do i always wanna go with stars if i have it? I dont like this big fckn rng factor but idk if its rly better. Sims always tell me go stars but i dont trust stars sims
scarlet sequoia
youβre a smart guy
glacial steppe
do i wanna hold vanish for first set of adds at Raden if playing ss/exsang or just dump in boss? Im third soak on unstable nightmare so i usually get back in melee range when adds are ~50% hp
candid jasper
I do wonder whether Ambush on a 20% proc chance will have enough 'oomph' to even be considerable over 10% damage from finishers or the additional poison damage
faint harness
depends on tuning ye
if they just took blindside and changed name to ambush
then no
rocky ruin
Eviscerate is coming back too for Assa?
faint harness
big doubt
candid jasper
Where did you see that? I'd like to see that
I would like to see evisc hit harder on cloth than envenom so a small skill gap can be introduced
rocky ruin
Sub got the FW Traits lets called it in it, but as far i can read available to all specs
Maybe i miss understand it
Here it is detailed
candid jasper
awesome!
because small things like that do make the difference, like if you're playing against a warrior priest and you have to make the choice between using evisc/envenom based on armor types, then we get to see differences between what good and not so good rogues do.
pseudo hamlet
To be honest I don't like that. Should've have just one instant-dmg finisher.
I still doubt it, wowhead had eviscerate being assassination ability also in Legion.
floral shoal
I really hope ambush procs will not be a thing, fuck Pressung buttons that randomly lit up
strange python
I mean it would be better than brainlessly spamming mutilate
quartz depot
Brainlessly?? Personally i put great thought into my mutilates
rigid mango
Just make the spec more interesting
It's already satisfying to play, to me, but it lacks actual impactful skill diff
Like most specs, in that regard.
Right now the diff between minmaxing and playing the spec w/o thinking is minimal
main forge
I don't want a spellbook full of abilities either... There definitely was quite a bit of bloat... but the question is how do you keep the rotation the same but still interesting every expansion, and how do you add new abilities too, without
making other things useless or outdated.
rigid mango
I don't want the rotation to be the same.
pseudo hamlet
I remember in Icecrown patch we just needed mutilate + envenom(and SnD at the start of the fight). And Vanish + HFB cds.
rigid mango
I want it to change.
The spec right now has no depth into it on single target, albeit a very interesting spec once more targets are added
main forge
I do too, but to keep subscribers, the rogues that aren't researching the pants off the class probably want/need a simple rotation
rigid mango
The spec gets a lot more difficult to minmax as soon as multi dotting is apparent.
You don't need to research the pants off the spec to learn a rotation π
Rotations themselves will never be hard enough to force people to not play the spec
I just want an apparent difference between me and someone who has a baseline understanding of how to maintain the spec
main forge
what would you change in the rotation to make it different?
rigid mango
Because right now, that isn't really a thing
main forge
okay
rigid mango
Make it more interesting. I personally think DD could be amazing if buff management was actually a thinig
pseudo hamlet
To be honest I always thought that rogue(as a melee DPS) was the hardest spec to learn(okay, maybe feral was kinda harder back then). But it was also the most rewarding one.
rigid mango
But the spec is so dulled down that the impact of caring about EP/Env uptimes are near to none
main forge
Rogue has never had a hard rotation....
pseudo hamlet
I didn't say it was HARD per se. I meant it was harder than other melee specs.
Just because Lamborghini Huracan is cheaper than McLaren Senna it doesn't mean Lambo is "cheap".
main forge
I don't play many other melee dps, but DK was difficult, paladin didn't jive with me.... I don't know, combat/assassination always felt like it had a flow for me
pseudo hamlet
Is rogue your main?
main forge
I just came back from an expansion break, and I feel like my rotation is trash tbh. So there is definitely a fair amount to learn from my two expansion break
main, and pretty much the only one I play
pseudo hamlet
I had kinda hard time learning DK rotation(frost 2x1-hand in Legion), but in the end it became easy.
While on the other hand I had a DK friend from the guild who didn't want to play rogue because he felt it was "too complicated".
rigid mango
I will say that I like the way the changes are going rn
But I dunno if I'll have alpha access, hoping some people here I trust will though
So maybe I get an actual feel for things :^)
pseudo hamlet
I know it's "feelcrafting", but I just find that rogues are more complicated than, for example, DHs.
rigid mango
DH's yeah
There are other specs with a lower skill ceiling for sure
Generally classes that don't have dead GCD's I find to be simpler to play
main forge
I'm a little mad about DH's... actually rogues probably would have been demon hunters in classic, if blizzard didn't want to commit to classic DnD archetypes
pseudo hamlet
About SL changes... I'm really looking forward to them. I don't like doing the same rotation all the time.
rocky ruin
What do think about aoe cap
distant lava
pseudo hamlet
Legion had great ability - Kingsbane, I really liked that and the rotation felt better.
main forge
I'd like to see our talents change our rotation, like one simple rotation, one that is more difficult to use, and then one that is very hard to use....
with obvious increases in damage accordingly
fading socket
https://i.imgur.com/PVxAKpw.png Would you switch out Vita when you have 12% haste legs for that 360 DPS increase?
rigid mango
Get yourself coral, first off
And 2nd, dunno actually. I don't know the exact gain from playing vita (to your raid group) but it's not unreasonable to play it there even though it sims lower.
And for the prev convo, I would want them to slow down sin or give it another finisher (alike dispatch for outlaw, but in an entirely diff sense) that you press when you can, but you still need to maintain env uptime in certain windows
Or something alike that
Having the current rotation not really be impacted by anything than fitting env's into TB (which even at that, doesn't matter that much) is kinda boring, and being able to just spam mut off energy instead of tactically thinking about saving energy is to me atleast, mind numbing. All that said I still enjoy the spec but would like to see something more added.
fading socket
@rigid mango how can i sim with items I dont have to see how much of a impact Coral has?
heres the previous sim: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9soTUbpmjDQyrWD42YRGYi
edgy pawn
gear compare
rigid mango
^ what he said
Gear compare, and stick coral into slot 1/2 and sim your diff trinkets
Don't forget to sim with subterfuge over MA too, fyi. Coral normally makes it better.
edgy pawn
you simmed it in both slots
rigid mango
^
rigid mango
fading socket
lets remove that fail from history
patent topaz
I think for me it was 1900 dps increase over 460 wrathion trinket
rigid mango
The diff for subterfuge wont be huge
(most likely)
But coral cannot be replaced by a single trinket in the game, raw output wise
heavy haven
fading socket
any comments on that?
Is subterfuge more stable opener than MA?
edgy pawn
it just scales better
we have so much crit right now that +50% is basically overkill
so subt gets better
shell atlas
hi guys, im new here, these are my current stats, any thing im doing wrong? apreciate feedback
edgy pawn
there's no right or wrong concerning stats, there's only what the sim tells you
shell atlas
never understood that very well, i know how to sim, but then should i get the pawn string, "paste it" on wow pawn, and then see if an item upgrades or not?
edgy pawn
you can use top gear and sim different pieces/sockets/enchants
for example if you have 460 crit/haste hands and 460 vers/mastery hands, you can select them both in top gear and it'll tell you what is better
shell atlas
because on every guide i see, everyone says the priority stat is haste
and mine is kinda low
edgy pawn
every decent guide will tell you to sim yourself
shell atlas
true
restive inlet
Just use this thing a lot: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear
Like, every time you get a new item. You wont even need to think about which stat is best for you
shell atlas
that also takes in account azerite traits?
restive inlet
azerite traits, corruption, essences, talent combinations. everything. type /simc ingame, copy paste the blurb onto this site, and just select a combination of gear, talents and traits you want to test. it will tell you your best setup
edgy pawn
yeah, basically
restive inlet
yeah. If some of the items/talents/traits/essences you had chosen were better than what you have equipped, it would have told you. Now you know how to optimize:)
restive inlet
At least the basics
shell atlas
yes
restive inlet
no worries.)
edgy pawn
(1st step should be the essences) π
restive inlet
This is me for instance: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tN4wYpodFttTDzTP6TA3Mc
I had to drop infinite stars because it is so unreliable for Nzoth.
fading socket
https://i.imgur.com/x1EKZux.png
Is this opener still legit?
And when is BotE used?
rigid mango
After TB
storm perch
hey. what is the best time for usage of vendetta on hivemind myth?
misty hazel
Is it worth holding stealth on Motherlode first boss ?
glacial steppe
@misty hazel you mean vanish?
misty hazel
No
Like wait the first 10 sec to get empowered garrote into the first damage buff
Then use vanish on 2nd vendetta
brisk forge
Ni
misty hazel
Or should I just go from the start
misty hazel
Alright
glacial steppe
id use vendetta on second coin cus third gets delayed a bit
magic fossil
guys, ashvane's coral dont work properly for il'gynoth fights? I found myself bursting with 1 stack and then my stacks are back again... very confused
marble hemlock
Fights where bosses submerge are kinda weird with Coral at times. Its the same on other fights where the boss disappears for a while, i.e. Siege of Boralus 2nd Boss
magic fossil
ah thanks seli, will swap for spyglass
quasi pewter
coral still works, its just a bug with how its showing the debuff on the boss
just use it same as always
and dont look at the debuff
marble hemlock
Well, theres some finicky shit, atleast in siege, where you get an auto-applied stack on the adds sometimes, and then that screws up your on-use
And you withdraw the 1stack on the add (unless it dies) instead of the boss ones
quasi pewter
oh yea true forgot about that, i dont think that has happened to me on ilgynoth tho
could propably happen i guess
still worth using imo.
lean dew
Why does focusing iris sim as a minor I should take but I see not one other person do it
scarlet sequoia
its good
scarlet sequoia
eh that depends on how much it sims higher than the rest
cobalt pelican
it stacks stupidly fast and doesn't really fall off in an aoe environmento nly like a.. hardswap target environment
i don't think stacks falling off on it is really much to consider tbh, less so than something like conflict
vagrant tapir
With no SS, do you not pandemic the garrote?
quasi pewter
you dont garrote twice in the opener if thats what you mean
quasi pewter
yea the talent row in general doesnt have a huge impact without ss
icy ember
quasi pewter
WE FLEXING SIMS?
strong oak
IS sims 
vast forum
how much is raz gonna sim for when he gets 2x 485 daggers? π€
strange python
At almost-BM-Hunter levels!
ionic hemlock
So for opener on boss/st it is: g - rup - ?? - mut till 4/5 cp - bote - tb - np - 4/5cp envenom?
?? because I do play subterfuge and I am not sure if am throwing in another garrote lol or trying to save that to pop it to make buff last longer
quasi pewter
openers are in the guides
vast forum
openers are in:
guides
pins
quicksim sample
logs
fleet anchor
@scarlet sequoia Stop cheating with your sims and getting multiple Expedient III items that don't exist for anyone else
tropic ocean
breath major on nzoth
is actually insane
when u use it on neuron it automatically gives next use 100% dmg buff
hoary apex
do you get more residuum for scrapping the 470s you get from Nzoth and cara vs scrapping 460s which only give 200?
fleet anchor
Breath Major can very easily be 10-12% damage minimum on N'zoth
Easily beats basically any other Major but most people don't want to put the effort into using it
Also not really any weaker on Psychus than BotE or whatever since you can easily pump a buffed one into Psychus with 7-8 stacks. 1.8m-2m crit on him usually. lol
fleet anchor
Reaping Flames Psychus 2 1988597
fleet anchor
People finally figuring out what Guy and I have been saying for the last month π€£
Reaping Flames is really, really good
Also probably the strongest ST essence once you break AP 85
fleet anchor
No I mean
tropic ocean
like in raden
fleet anchor
Even with zero resets
tropic ocean
where u cant reset it
fleet anchor
It is best ST sim for me now
tropic ocean
oh thats good
fleet anchor
It scales very well with neck level
tropic ocean
when they fix it bis for sure
tropic ocean
ik
fleet anchor
It's a little buggy on certain adds, orbs on Ra-den or the spikes on Wrathion, boss/organs on Ilgynoth
tropic ocean
i just mean the interaction is weird
fleet anchor
Mostly it works fine though
fleet anchor
Never use on the Orbs on Ra-den it will always give you 45s CD
Generally any NPC that "revives" mid-fight is recycled in a strange way
And they don't actually die die
But the majority of things trigger it fine
Like on Wrathion you can still use it on the Assassins for example
Just not the spikes
tropic ocean
or had it happen in some dungeons as well
when u 1shot a low hp
it goes on cd no dmg buff
fleet anchor
If another group has the tap you don't always get the kill credit
tropic ocean
but for nzoth big for sure with no 15s cd and buff by neurons
fleet anchor
And sometimes one-shotting certain mobs doesn't give you proper credit
But mostly it works
Usually it's scaling zones that have a problem
It works pretty much 100% of the time in Vale and Uldum, but it's iffy in WoD zones about one-shots
tropic ocean
idk i just tested it on wq in zuldazar
fleet anchor
Sorry BfA zones
tropic ocean
1shotting mobs and triggering 15s cd no dmg buff
but i guess it doesnt matter for questing anyway
fleet anchor
Yes lots of things are broken in scaling zones though
Tons of mechanics break lol
People just don't look at the numbers π
Blade Flurry only does like half damage in Zuldazar for example
Scaling zones are π
Legion+BfA leveling zones
If you tag the mob with anything before you one-shot them you should get the buff though
In Zuldazar
I've been playing with it as Major everywhere for about a month so mostly have found all the funny cases π
tropic ocean
I can see it would be kinda broken as well in open world
for pvp as well if you can just get 100% dmg buff all the time w/o cd by sniping mobs that are 1 hit
so actually its not bad to trigger 15s
fleet anchor
Well I'll give a spoiler that it is ridiculously strong in BGs π
rancid bobcat
how does it play out past p1 nzoth tho
tropic ocean
u can still reset it on adds
rancid bobcat
theres just not many adds past p1
tropic ocean
?
rancid bobcat
well comparatively
tropic ocean
u dont need many adds
honest vessel
secret phase boi for a couple resets, thought harvesters, and then nzoth is under 20 p soon
seems p good
honest vessel
i kinda wanna try it out
rancid bobcat
still struggling with mechanics for my guild
tropic ocean
i guess what u want to do past p1 is
snipe harvester
so u get
100% dmg on nzoth
and then its 45s cd anyway
and its super strong on synpase inside too
when I snipe basher and go in in g1
i take off 40% of first synpase just by botd with crit
tropic ocean
dont think it benefits from anything
from vendetta for sure not
from ma i dont think so I will try
honest vessel
huh, didnt realize
rancid bobcat
sim will still get it during vendetta window anyway
honest vessel
thx for testing it for me
tropic ocean
π
well I use it on first basher out of ma all the time so it should ahve way higher crit
but yeah
fleet anchor
You don't really need lots of resets for Reaping to be good is the thing
Plus you can still use on Thought Harvesters and alternate boss
But like literally Reaping sims best for me in Patchwerk sims now that I'm high enough neck level anyway
fleet anchor
86
rancid bobcat
tropic ocean
the more I play it on nzoth the more I like it
actually nice and challenging trying to snipe shit as much as possible
fleet anchor
It takes some practice but I've been using it all N'zoth
tropic ocean
doing mage dmg on synapses with it
getting 2-3 snipes one before down and 2 down
its crazy
fleet anchor
Also lol CLF sneaking up again btw at higher gear levels I'm noticing
Especially if you are running any hasted corruption like IS or something
BotE now simming below Breath/CLF/WV 0 Allies for me.. wonder how long people will stubbornly hold on to it π
(Really does not scale well with high neck level is the main problem with it)
fleet anchor
I dunno I can usually get two buffed Breaths on first Shattered Ego due to Psychophages still being up
Onto the boss I mean
tropic ocean
I guess if the dps difference isnt very high
the ease of use is a big factor as well
fleet anchor
He's above 80 both Shattered Egos
tropic ocean
bote is just braindead
even on clf u need to think if u delay or not
with bote u dont
fleet anchor
Yeah that's true but I think by AP 90 or whatever
It's gonna be so far behind nobody should be using it
soft shale
i have neck 91 and breath is just way better
fleet anchor
Yeah at 91 it would be pumpin'
I haven't been farming AP very hard but now I realize if I'm gonna keep using Breath I probably should π¦
Although I'm higher than a lot of people that stopped because they thought it didn't matter
tropic ocean
I think on nzoth specific subt is worse than it sims anyway
First basher doesnt live close to garrote duration
fleet anchor
I mean
tropic ocean
so not sure if one should even use it
fleet anchor
I would argue that makes it better not worse but I dunno π
fleet anchor
Your relative uptime of buffed garrotes on priority targets in the fight is higher than an average sim
Like literally you can have buffed garrote on the entire pump phase of Psychus
instead of just 3 RNG globals
I really hate MA tbh
fleet anchor
Well that just comes down to what your raid needs
fleet anchor
You could move to the boss and it's the same argument though
Given the Shattered Ego window
tropic ocean
Yeah but over the whole fight how much dps loss will less garrote inside subter be compared to all ma hits
I mean with current crit barrly rng
Barely
fleet anchor
I mean considering Subterfuge gives you multi-dot potential
I think it more than makes up for it
Get to triple Garrote boss + Thought Harvesters for example
fleet anchor
But yeah the big problem for BotE is that it doesn't scale great with neck level but also the minor is one of the worst minors really atm
vast forum
bote scales with gear though
fleet anchor
Going another major opens up the slot for CnS instead of Breath and CnS is way stronger than BotE minor
fleet anchor
Yeah that's the problem
tropic ocean
it should give crit buff rather than small haste buff
fleet anchor
We are basically gear capped atm for a lot of people
But AP gonna continue to go up
tropic ocean
U usw vision minor on nzoth?
fleet anchor
Not a big scaler on our overall DPS though because the secondary increase is small
But the AP scaling on some essences is big
tropic ocean
Im bote lucid cns and formless void atm
fleet anchor
Formless isn't bad
tropic ocean
If more ppl use botd major uptime will rise as well
fleet anchor
Yeah I mean honestly you can keep it up probably 80% even on your own on that fight lol
I use it on my Hunter with Breath for solo/visions/etc.
Basically has 100% uptime
fleet anchor
But like say for ST parsing or whatever, like.. going Breath major opens up minors for CnS/Iris/Lucid
And still get the Breath minor
So that helps as well
Since CnS minor is better than BotE minor
tropic ocean
now when botd gets so strong with neck lvl im kinda sad i slacked so much with islands and quests
π
scarlet sequoia
clf will be better for most people with neck lvl
strange python
Yo @tropic ocean so you finally convinced of BotD a bit? Thats cool to see :D
No Idea if I'm gonna be in for nzoth, but it'll be fun to use there
fleet anchor
I hope they delete Venom Rush lol
Or make it work with Shiv or something I dunno.. it's so so so so bad
vast forum
breath major scales with vers, right?
fleet anchor
yes
honest vessel
i thought tb was gonna be a talent that lowered shiv damage
royal lantern
there are more talents they should change imo
chilly marsh
i think alacrty is just a filler for now
royal lantern
the entire last tier is so.....lame except ct, wich is aoe only
latent field
Assassination getting slice and dice?
royal lantern
i think all specs get s&d? not sure
latent field
Would be weird to have roll the bones and slice and dice at the same time
dense axle
but remember, RTB is just a button press now
whats weird is having 2 AOE finishers for Sub
fleet anchor
Yes unless they change something it's hard to see Alacrity losing to anything on that tier
10% Haste passive is god tier for Assassination
latent field
True
dense axle
what was the issue?
fleet anchor
Exsanguinate probably also needs a total redesign tbh
With Shiv going baseline and more poison focus
dense axle
@fleet anchor remember, Mastery now effects bleeds
vestal wren
they needed to nerf it early in legion bc. it was the best talent by far
fleet anchor
I don't see how Exsanguinate can survive with the current design
dense axle
mastery + exsang build
tropic ocean
shrouded suffocation baseline
dense axle
well, not now. Will effect bleeds
tropic ocean
dense axle
mastery just does poisons I thought
latent field
Energy regen
patent topaz
400% exsang when?
fleet anchor
The main problem with Exsang will be that it's already quite borderline but if more gets put into Poisons it will just get weaker by relative terms
chilly marsh
they should change exsang to bonus dmg would make it way easier to balance
now its alwasy Op or meh
chilly marsh
enxang will always be nerfed because pvp
doing that kind of DMG in seconds is broken
latent field
The fun part of exsanguinate is watching your bleeds fall off faster though
fleet anchor
Exsang would just be more straightforward if it was a damage amp for bleeds instead of the funky time compression
I get it's a cool idea but also kinda broken
And the haste snapshotting is very inconsistent
vestal wren
does slice interact with exsang?
latent field
Thought slice just upped autoattack speed
fleet anchor
No I played Outlaw π
fleet anchor
We only have 1 Fire Mage
fleet anchor
We don't really need the Psychus damage atm mostly just the sustain
I wouldn't mind playing Assassination on the fight but just comp-related
tropic ocean
vestal wren
oh ye right, i somehow thought slice also added haste
tropic ocean
big likes
chilly marsh
anyone luck with the alpha ?
timber furnace
How high are good assa st sims ?
rigid mango
95k
azure arrow
hey guys, is there a cap to the amount of mobs i should be maintainning rupture and garrote?
quasi pewter
in aoe you rupture as many mobs as you need to stay energy neutral
which is about 4-5
fleet anchor
Top sims are 95k
quasi pewter
havent seen 95k non-is yet
fleet anchor
Good sims are anything over 80k lol
faint harness
π
rigid mango
87-88k is good
fleet anchor
No, it really isn't
rigid mango
It really is
fleet anchor
I think if you canvassed the vast majority of Assassination setups
They are going to be low to mid-80s at best
azure arrow
@quasi pewter how about garrote?
fleet anchor
You need very good corruption setups to break mid 80s, and/or Mythic Azerite
And if you are Mythic Azerite farming you probably don't care about your simdps anyway π
Because you're done
quasi pewter
you only use shrouded buffed garrotes in aoe @azure arrow
azure arrow
ooooh
quasi pewter
so in a pack of 5 mobs you would have no garrotes running after the initial 18 seconds
only 4-5 ruptures
fleet anchor
I would argue the fact that T25 SimC profiles which have maxed GW in every slot (but no extra sockets) only are at 88k pretty much goes to show that 88k is really a very high end, not just "good."
Unless you are looking at IS sims
fleet anchor
I'd need to double check
patent topaz
sockets are very high value as well
fleet anchor
But it has 6 Gushing Wound pieces π
quasi pewter
i would say 85+ is "good" for mythic raiders
patent topaz
I have 50k mementos saved up, dont want to use them on my gear atm
quasi pewter
90+ is high end
the reality is most people will have sockets on most of their gear
if theyre not slacking
fleet anchor
80-85k is probably where most Mythic prog raiders will land in without IS yes. Then as you start getting better Azerite and more sockets you'll get up to the 90s. Higher with IS.
rancid bobcat
6 gw is just 90 corruption
fleet anchor
Sockets I think is still catching up though. It's still only about a socket a week from HVs.
patent topaz
ive been doing 3 visions per week
vast forum
that's called slacking π
rancid bobcat
so something you wouldve run at like 1 month in with r15 cloak
patent topaz
I have 95k coalesced things and 53k mementos
fleet anchor
Ehh
vast forum
you get ~30k mementos per week if you do all your shit π
fleet anchor
A lot of Assassination players are not running over 39 Corruption during prog tbh Kaite. Unless they really have something great and need to push.
Assassination has some of the fewest tools to deal with TfB in the game π¦
rancid bobcat
i mean now you can run up to 125
quasi pewter
ye during prog i wouldnt go over 39
quasi pewter
but most people are running 59 in farm
fleet anchor
Sure this is not counting a few weeks of cloak upgrades we have had recently
quasi pewter
so thats why theyre simming higher obv
fleet anchor
Big difference between even Outlaw and Assassination for this
When they have free Vanish π¦
rancid bobcat
current is still 105 unless you have some odd non multiple of 5 corruption like TA
patent topaz
my 39 corr set sims for 78k t2 honed mind is +2k at 59 corr
brisk forge
Hmm Vita sims highest for m+ is taht correct? :S
fleet anchor
IS5, Ring set, sockets on every piece, max Azerite, 56 corruption. I'd say that's pretty fair to say that's generally a highwatermark π
rancid bobcat
yea i was more like trying to see where i was at
cause i havent bothered simming assassination in a while
fleet anchor
Although you'd sim higher with Breath and Subterfuge now https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/akNLN2Aar2k6tB1CwfYfQ3 π
mighty moss
hey guys
just recently trying out assa
for raid
what should i aim for
in stats
vast forum
different stats interact with different azerite traits/corruptions/essences
rancid bobcat
mighty moss
so what do i socket and enchant ?
vast forum
whatever your sims say
patent topaz
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gTNBCASJ3SjXMhFMu3hCia my expedient 3 gloves dont even make it into my 39 corr set
hazy geyser
VOP major !?!
agile mason
do you guys run ST for Tyrannical KR or still AOE azerite / corruption?
patent topaz
blood is 120 dps lower so id use that on most bosses
for my nonexistant progress
just need a guild now
scarlet sequoia
3 minutes π¬
mighty moss
What should i set it to?
scarlet sequoia
5
atomic saddle
is dragonscale better in reality than sim shows and vita-shard worse?
quasi pewter
no why
clear horizon
before using envenom, do i need to have 4 rupture targets up
echo cargo
If for some strange reason you decided to use Nightstalker, would you open with Garrote and then use vanish to do an extended duration rupture?
quasi pewter
i believe so yes
vast forum
@agile mason never run single target in m+
always 3x SS subterfuge
other stuff is interchangeable
tired hill
Hello, just wondering. would someone take a peek of some logs of a friend of mine? hes been underperforming but claims that he doesn't know where the mistakes are
high nacelle
is VoP major legit or sim bait? seem the odd log using it but now it's starting to sim well for me
warm parcel
and its about consistency vs parse
quasi pewter
i wouldnt use it for progress
warm parcel
Yeah not really something one should use
high nacelle
ok cool thanks
errant lintel
anyone assa rogues in SL beta have any thoughts yet?? π
lost slate
its literally 0 difference from what I can tell
instead of pressing toxic blade you press shiv
clear horizon
can someone answer my question pls
lost slate
Yeah, talents are probably changing. But from the Ion interview it seems like theyre not planning to do many class changes
warm parcel
I mean assa as a core wont change
Just some spicing up with talent swaps etc
Disappointing? Not really to me at least
lost slate
to me it kinda is, i hoped we would get a bit more but im def happy with this too
vast forum
rogues are currently 1 of the most complete classes in the game
there's no need to add too many new things
royal torrent
for a lazy raider/player rogues have so many quality of life things that would be really hard to give up for another class
lost slate
is adding shiv back adding "too many new things" when it effectivly just is toxic blade reskin
Its obviously subjectvie but perseonally id just like to see stuff like garrote and gouge for all specs
vast forum
you're also getting some new talents, ambush, covenant abilities etc
i do agree on gouge for all specs though
fleet whale
shiv has utility but sadly for sin it won't be used much for uility
fleet whale
Sin's talent tree is one of the worst in the game imo
lost slate
really?
fleet whale
it might be good numbers wise, but nothing about the tree is cool if you know what i mean
nothing about it that really gets you excited
lost slate
cant relate lol
like i said, i like marked for death and subterfuge
obviously it could be better but its def not the worst
vast forum
i like all of the talents that we don't really use
exsang was pretty dead until 8.3, mark for death is mostly useless in pve, blindside needs a 200% buff to be viable
faint harness
i thinks in is in a good spot rn
build variety wise
i have played at least 3 completely different builds this tier, that has all been viable in their own way
harsh notch
What should i get next for essence?
I'm assuming breath of the undying rank 3? Or purification protocol 3
vast forum
blood of the enemy
edgy pawn
breath and blood
vast forum
depends on what content you do
quasi pewter
blood of the enemy & breath
if you only do m+, you can stick with iris as major for now too
harsh notch
I dont have that :((
quasi pewter
but you dont have a good r3 ST major essence and blood covers both
quasi pewter
do you buy them with the currency or ?
vast forum
you can buy much more than 1 per week if you do visions π
faint harness
got my 2nd 485 carapace dagger today, officially done with the game
quasi pewter
@scarlet sequoia
faint harness
π
granite mist
what is best way to sim for m+ as assa? dslice doesn't appear to work as good as it does for outlaw. it never recommends fok trait.
edgy pawn
do a mixture of 40secs - 1min with like 4-8 enemies
edgy pawn
then a st fight for 2-3 minutes
after that you have to use your brain to figure out what's good
granite mist
seems like a smart ass reply but its a reply none the less. i guess take what we can get.
faint harness
wdym, legit just told you how to sim it
granite mist
and then followed up with "imagine that" lol.
strange python
6 target patchwerk 40sec no bloodlust
granite mist
alright miss read it then, apologize. thanks for the replies all. appreciate it π
edgy pawn
so i got smartassed? 
faint harness
nobody got smartassed
edgy pawn
all cool
faint harness
scarlet sequoia
how many kills
faint harness
4
faint harness
master loot would suck for us
quasi pewter
they wont get loot
faint harness
we dont do any splitrunning
quasi pewter
faint harness
personal loot was the biggest buff to our guild in BFA
scarlet sequoia
master loot is better in every way
theres 0 arguments for personal loot only in guilds
faint harness
well it pushes split running
it still does, but guilds that might have done 1-2 split runs back in the day might just not CBA with personal loot
cus its just shit
scarlet sequoia
it is shit
harsh notch
@vast forum Don't have bote since before that's why it'll take a litte while
fleet anchor
I honestly think split raids have gotten worse since ploot once they made it tradeable
Making ploot tradable undermined the entire purpose of the system
From the perspective of the original rationale anyway
faint harness
not around my rank
guilds that would previously run 1-2 split runs
cba with personal loot
fleet anchor
Since it's tradeable now you can just hyper optimize splits in a way that was never even remotely possible before
faint harness
yea but thats only for the top like
20 guilds
yea sure method is running 13 splits now
fleet anchor
Sure. But ploot change mostly affected top guilds. Not pugs or casual play.
Because ML was already not an option in pugs
faint harness
where do you draw the line for top guilds
cus it definitely affected us, and i dont consider us a top guild
fleet anchor
Any organized guild π
faint harness
for the 3 day a week, 3-4 hour raids - bracket it was a good change
vast forum
no it wasn't
fleet anchor
But the argument for it was primarily over really casual players who were getting screwed over by troll master looters
faint harness
yes it was, cus we didnt split run in the first place, we distributed loot with spreadsheets and shit, but we still have some agency over loot
fleet anchor
I don't know many raiding guilds who thought it was a positive change
Trading the gear made it passable but still has some significant downsides
vast forum
in any decent guild, you'll be forced to trade away tradeable loot if it's an upgrade for you but a bigger upgrade for someone else
faint harness
we gained like 120 ranks in BFA, partially cus of this change
fleet anchor
The problem is that it screws with gear probabilities and allocation
vast forum
personal loot probably has nothing to do with your rank
faint harness
it does
fleet anchor
Classes like Rogues basically got totally boned by the impact on Dagger drops for example
faint harness
cus the guilds that were just above us used to do at least 1 split run
vast forum
yes
fleet anchor
Mail Armor specs get screwed
tropic ocean
I like PL no more bad officers deciding about items and give it to their relatives π
vast forum
at least before personal loot, split runs were done with diverse classes
now you see top guilds running 20 druids
20 DHs
faint harness
i mean they still are, unless you're a top 20 guild
fleet anchor
I never had that problem with ML because I wouldn't stay in a guild if I didn't agree with how the guild did loot lol
tropic ocean
well you dont wanna know what guilds promise you to get you in their raid
faint harness
we never had issues with ML either, and i would personally prefer ML cus i enjoy the spreadsheet minigame
tropic ocean
3 day guilds becoming 6 day guilds and loot is decided by "council" meaning grey log officer gets items over orange logger raider
π
vast forum
and as koji said, PL REALLY fucked over rogues and hunters because of weapon drops
only rogue in your guild? gl getting that dagger
fleet anchor
I love not getting a single Carapace dagger drop in any difficulty this tier so far
vast forum
oh you came to fill for someone who has a headache tonight? here, titanforged socket bis loot
fleet anchor
Despite coining it every week π
faint harness
i guess i got lucky in both EP and Nyalotha then
tropic ocean
well @fleet anchor took me until 2 weeks ago every week double coining raden to get slapper on dh
π
vast forum
you can easily calculate how likely you are (on average) to get a dagger per kill
tropic ocean
50/50 right? either get it or not
fleet anchor
Yeah but like... so many classes can trade Caress. Just nobody wants to because it's OP lol
tropic ocean
tropic ocean
I can see ml is really good for progresison if loot is actually given out for raid improvements
but humans are biased so
Im fine with pl
vast forum
each player has a certain chance to get an item (25% if i'm not wrong), and a boss usually has 3-4 items that can drop for your class, which means, disregarding bonus rolls, you have a ~5-8% chance per kill of getting a dagger
fleet anchor
I would be fine with PL if the BLP was per boss
faint harness
never had that issue with ML. I dont mind PL cus we capitalized on having more equal gear to guilds above us
fleet anchor
But like
HEY WOW YOU GOT SHIT RING ON ILGYNOTH I GUESS YOU MAY AS WELL LOG OUT NOW
π
vast forum
i was more fine with the idea of PL in legion
vast forum
where relics were useful for multiple classes
vast forum
multiple classes doesn't mean all of them π
faint harness
the fucking CC relics kept avoiding me
vast forum
there were no class specific relics
faint harness
even tho we had ML
fleet anchor
It was definitely less bad in the context of Legion
I'm baffled they didn't do something about daggers for BfA though
vast forum
the worst were i think fel relics
fleet anchor
Daggers should just be... Agi/Int
vast forum
that had only 4 specs
fleet anchor
Like seriously that would solve so much
vast forum
i think they don't do that cuz of weapon dps
fleet anchor
wdps can be the same now
faint harness
then we have Lex Scath issue
fleet anchor
Casters get hidden bonus Int now
faint harness
using an int weapon cus the corruption makes it better than agi weapon
vast forum
although they can legit just give rogues a passive "damage with daggers increased by 200%"
faint harness
fleet anchor
WDPS doesn't matter now that the AP changes and bonus Int are in the game
They could easily make hybrid melee-caster weapons
vast forum
but then you'd have mages stabbing people
fleet anchor
I don't think you would lol
vast forum
i know π
fleet anchor
π
vast forum
but how do you fix the bow problem for hunters then?
vast forum
delete hunters Xd
warm parcel
fleet anchor
Survival tho
fleet anchor
They tend to put more ranged weapon drops in most tiers for some reason though
Than daggers
Like current tier has 3
Although I guess only 1 matters since it's OP
tawny plank
whats ideal setup for mythic+ assassination? 3xSS, ?xEB, ?xHoD
and stat weights if anyone knows
quasi pewter
if you have access to EB/ss pieces, that is your best bet for overall damage in most dungeons
HoD is also very strong though
ttk is ok too
tawny plank
is it worth stacking EB, or should I just take 1
quasi pewter
its worth stacking
tawny plank
ok, thanks
misty hazel
For m+ is there any reason to go assa over outlaw for the rest of the expansion?
tawny plank
Crit > Haste?
quasi pewter
crit>mastery/vers>haste
tawny plank
I figure its worth on some high tyrannical keys
faint harness
if you ahve the traits for sin its VERY competitive
misty hazel
Rn I have a set of 3x EB 3x SS
quasi pewter
assa is propably better for workshop, most of the time outlaw outshines it though
quasi pewter
outlaw is not better by a huge amount in general
especially with 3eb 3ss
ideally you have other options for dungeons like kr, workshop, temple though
faint harness
i run 3x SS 2x EB
and 1x HoD
and the dmg is just very consistent
as long as your tank lets you restealth and doesnt chain pull
quasi pewter
you can also run 3ss 3heart with that
misty hazel
True
quasi pewter
which is very good
quasi pewter
heart is just better
misty hazel
Have a 12% crit ampl it might be worth with
quasi pewter
in general
misty hazel
Aah okay
faint harness
12% crit amp is big
misty hazel
Ue its on
Haste mastery piece sadly
If I get a gushing wounds itll fit really well
I use rank 4 mindflay with rank 3 honed mind of racing pulse rn
tawny plank
I dont have many SS+EB pieces, do you think 3xSS, 1xEB, 1xHoD, 1xBlightborne is fine?
faint harness
yes
misty hazel
Do you guys run TD on fort weeks btw?
tawny plank
need a lot of haste for it to proc much
faint harness
i run t8 crit
misty hazel
Isnt it GCD ?
faint harness
and t4 tentacles
faint harness
its fine
misty hazel
Oh t8 crit
faint harness
i have 60% crit with food buff in this build
misty hazel
Read t8 TD for a sec
faint harness
yuge crit
misty hazel
Ye thats nice
Ill try out 3x ss 3x Hod wirh crit ampl
Think ill be like 48-50%
Just need to find a small corruption to fit in
tawny plank
crit corruption > mastery corruption?
faint harness
with EBs, prob
faint harness
gn
surreal bolt
For low m+ what should I use for the bottom row talents
Just learning and gearing right now so like. 5-10 range
strange python
If you're just learning and Shit, probably poison bomb because it's passive
harsh notch
In the guide for assassination rogue on wowhead it says "vanish during pandemic to reapply garrot"
What exactly does this pandemic mean?
daring olive
