thx
#assassination
stoic vale
arctic tulip
anyone trying mdi as sin?
wide ridge
raden, carapace and nzoth azerite pieces are still our BiS? Icy veins guide says so but idk if it's up to date
gray abyss
I have a hard time choosing essences when i try sim the multitarget and single target sims entirely different ๐ฆ
I am choosing for m+
I Have:
Rank 3: Focusing Iris
Rank 2: Blood of the enemy
Rank 3: Worldvein Resonance
Rank 3: Vision of Perfection
Rank 1: Breath of Dying
Rank 1: Condensed Life-Force
Rank 1: Lucid Dream
Rank 1: Spark of Inspiration
Rank 1: Crucible of Flame
this is what i got when i simmed it, but someone told me lucid dream is a must, is it because its only rank 1?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/83jBNZy81St1S2yFqDGpBp
and also icy veins told me not to go vision of perfection if i didnt use blood of the enemy as major, so i dont really get it
teal hatch
ay would u guys recommend soloing visions as assasination? or get a group
fleet anchor
Soloing visions is not too difficult as Rogue. But groups are fine too.
teal hatch
Does anyone know a good up to date assasination guide ? specially for aoe rotations/essence/talents/azerite and what not
tropic ocean
gentle oracle
Hello! Would anyone be willing to go over a log for Maut HC to help me out understanding what I am missing? I feel like I should be doing better but I can't seem to pinpoint the reason why I am failing
hidden bay
gentle oracle
I stopped playing back in WoD and just came back a bit more than 2 weeks ago
So still getting used to the different changes
vital dew
I like that assassination uses breath of the dying in pvp it chonks pretty hard
Iโll miss it in shadowlands ๐ฆ
honest vessel
your gear is a big part of it bernie, having only one trait on two pieces of azerite is huge. other gear issues too like essences play a big role. Gameplay wise, make sure you're always vendetta'ing before toxic blade and before vanish in your opener, and also look to pool energy just before toxic blade comes off cd, so you can get more envenoms in the window, you're getting 1-2 when ideally you're hitting 2-3
@gentle oracle
also make sure you're hitting worldvein as much as possible, you missed a cast
food buff, 2nd pot, better flask also make a difference
gentle oracle
I see what you mean - I think that the fact that I still don't know the fights really well also is impacting my vendetta usage a lot
Should I keep vendetta for toxic blade then?
honest vessel
no, just vendetta on cd
but if both are off cd, like in the opener, hit vendetta first
then tb, then vanish
maut for sin rogue is pretty much full patchwerk
all you gotta do it slam the boi
gentle oracle
yeah, it ddid seem like patchwerk. That's why I felt like this was the best way to check my gameplay
honest vessel
also try to avoid spending energy/globals on things like feint and vial during vendetta
tho i get sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do
#1 thing is work on gear
probably holding you back more than anything else
gentle oracle
I see - I need to check on what I need to look for
honest vessel
droptimizer sim is pretty good for that
replacing shoulders and chest is a must tho
honest vessel
oh nevermind, you're azerite isnt as bad as i thought
sry lol, its ilvl is a bit lacking but i mistook something big
happy to help
essences are the most important thing
gentle oracle
Yep, I am currently finishing my BotE farm
and I hope to have all I need by next reset
fading walrus
guys running 3xEb 2xSS and got the option between scent and envenom, but scent is simiing abit higher than envenom but i feel evenom is better
i asked this yest but no1 confirmed
also is NP not that necessary in keys ?
fading walrus
great thank u
strange python
So on the icy veins guide it says use BotE after TB inside your vendetta yes? But all the top logs basically just press it at random times within their vendetta. Talking exclusively ST.
When should you press BotE
Does it not really matter at all?
cobalt pelican
the way you worded it from the icyveins guide is more or less correct, with the small caveat of aiming to be at max combo points so sometimes there's a mutilate before it
you can just think of it as press it before your first envenom inside tb+vend
top logs this tier are kinda clowny so you'd need to show an example, it's not a massive dps swing either way though to use it a bit wrongly
strange python
Yeah no fair enough ty
Just I am seeing like, people using it after TB has ran out but within vendetta
I saw a log where someone used it before vendetta
All sorts of stuff
It was different for every single log
cobalt pelican
yeah those are all just bad play, i imagine they all have 70% damage from 17 ta procs on a 3 minute fight
strange python
Ye fair enough makes sense. Thank you โค๏ธ
young dune
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
young dune
Im a little confused by the wowhead essence guide, too many <ORs> like there isnt a clearly defined winner for dps. Can anyone tell me best single target essences?
breath of the dying or blood of the enemy major?
cobalt pelican
there's a lot of ors because it varies
it can be breath, blood, clf depending on your current gear
young dune
so worldvein like wowhead suggests isnt a go-to?
cobalt pelican
worldvein is a very good essence, but generally requires some cooperation from your raid to be competitive
honest vessel
its not bad, sims really well and doesn't lose that much value with small to moderate movemtn
yeah need multiple peeps
faint harness
Dont know how much of its dmg is the active
Cus just standing still for the active is very easy no matter the boss
And doesnt rquire multiple users
young dune
ok bc for now my only rank threes are https://i.imgur.com/Orc3eZt.png so if i gotta use blood breath or clf im kinda SOL
subtle salmon
guys assassin has downtime?
faint harness
Yes
subtle salmon
people say it has much downtime like 20-30% is it true?
wow
more than Legion ?
legion was rly spammy right?
faint harness
No clue, but it has downtime
subtle salmon
easy to play in genral?
young dune
plays just like a feral druid minus the snapshotting
subtle salmon
shapshotting = ? dotting everything?
lean marten
once u get the opener and vendetta rotations u really just keep up bleeds
young dune
snapshotting is applying bleeds and dots during periods of high procs/cd usage
honest vessel
snapshotting is having a dot retain the value from all the buffs active at its original cast time
subtle salmon
so its complex or it just sounds like that?
im outlaw atm thinking trying assassin
honest vessel
no rotations are really hard st, just practice
young dune
its outlaw with 1 extra button in the rotation basically
honest vessel
it takes some planning out with pooling and its more complicated when you add more targets and different lifespans
subtle salmon
i see
honest vessel
but its not hard
subtle salmon
i main UH dk and AoE is really hard to get the rotation correctly
u need to line up sooo much stuff
compared to my Fury warrior which is so easy
young dune
if you like outlaw youll probably like assas
subtle salmon
Will try assassin too but i read u need to have gear for ST and different gear for AoE ๐ฆ which kinda sucks (azerite traits)
i mained assassin in Legion i loved it
but after legion i havent touched it
mainly i did not play my rogue which i love because it has purely dps specs....and u know...hard to gear up compared to a class that can spam dungeons / m+ as tank or heal...
young dune
its a lot of fun, and i cant say for sure bc i havent done maths but 30% seems like an exaggeration of downtime. there is some but i personally stack haste bc of pvp so my downtime seems minimal. might be different if youre stacking crit for pve idunno
subtle salmon
btw can u get geared from pvp these days?
honest vessel
eh, not as geared, but you can
cobalt pelican
like 1/50 games
subtle salmon
lol
young dune
you get a guarenteed piece when you fill up the conquest bar, and another guarenteed piece from the box the following week
2 guarentees per week
and random chances from games
also the conquest reward is a choice of gear, they give 4 options to pick from
anyone else getting randomly disconnected today?
merry coral
Max drop from games in pvp is 465 @ 2400 and gear drops once in like 50-60 games
So yeah
Go as high as you can and hope for no trinket / azerites in your weekly chest
arctic tulip
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kb47nwXMu49oR17BV7AC6a could someone help.. wanted to try to get two DD for single target but it sims way lower than what I have..
subtle salmon
guys why assassin in Mythic is bottom and outlaw top
and in heroic its the other way around?
marble hemlock
sadly only have waycrests today where i logged
cause the other keys were all siege/temple/workshop ><
honest vessel
dont need ilvl to perform, need the right azerite traits, right trinkets, right essences to perform
ilvl helps too ofc
round crypt
is unbridled fury best for assass? or?
glacial steppe
how many expedients do i want for ss/exsang build? currently sitting at t6 expedient and t3 racing pulse
idle lily
IF or TD i feel like never proc for me on sin
fleet anchor
@cobalt pelican @marble hemlock iirc sims already basically show Deadly Momentum is like 96% uptime since the duration change. I don't think it changes the relative value at all, this has been considered since the hotfix really. The uptime was only part of the problem with it, it's just not very high budget in general.
It's an OK filler but not all that strong
cobalt pelican
yeah for sure, it's still middle of the pack at best but my experience with it was like
fleet anchor
cobalt pelican
throw it in the trash tier, but my group is generally slower and with a lot of hiccups
fleet anchor
That's what it sims at which more or less match my results
cobalt pelican
so i was experiencing a lot more cut stacks
fleet anchor
yes that's a problem for sure if you don't pull quickly. It is RPPM though so pure triggers are not the only factor.
5 RPPM or something
magic pasture
kinda skeptical, sim tells me to purify my two T2 appendage for 1 T3 Twilight
i thouth appendage was good for st
fleet anchor
Don't purify anything unless it's a junk trait
But TA is not really all that amazingly strong, it is pretty average. Just depends on how the rest of your budget fits together.
TA can perform very well because it is high variance though, which is why many high parses have large results from it
1 RPPM effects are pretty well known for being extremely swingy
magic pasture
thanks for your effort ๐
fleet anchor
But generally I don't purify things unless they are truly mediocre/redundant.. because never know
magic pasture
i purify everything and then blizzard double TA dmg tomorrow
fleet anchor
Like I purified 475 gloves with a socket because they had Void Ritual 1 on them, which was not too useful and I'd use it as a major upgrade
But generally do not purify much
You never know how it will work out
whole mantle
guys
this oppener for aoe
G1 G2 G3 R1 FoK Env BotE 5xFoK
i realy use 5 FoK without spent CP ?
quaint patio
lol so i have an over abundance of verse, that shouldnt be bad right?
ornate turtle
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
fleet anchor
@whole mantle not really enough info.. what are your traits? Target count? etc
fleet anchor
Dunno would have to ask Seli about that. That doesn't quite match what we do in the SimC APL. As far as the APL is concerned we would use BotE before the Envenom, but I suspect this highly depends on the number of EB traits. 1xEB might not be enough to make the damage per execute of FoK > Envenom but 3xEB probably would. Target count matters too.
Pretty large percentage of your damage will be coming from Garrote ticks there anyway so
tropic blade
and at the risk of sparking RP responses
when you walk away
you dont hear me say
pleaaaase oh baby
simple and clean is the way that youre making me feek
feel
sacred ore
guys
A simple question
should I always use toxic blade on cooldown? or pair it with envenom?
rigid mango
TB on cd.
sacred ore
Thanks
rigid mango
But when you play properly the two should come naturally ๐
tropic ocean
@fleet anchor not really sure I have very good results with ta - i run 3x t2 and its around 13~17% ish overall in key
played around with 18%+12% td or 3x tents and td doesnt really beat it for me on sin (also with 3x ta I can still run gushing wounds while staying under 60 corruption which I cant with td :p, dmg values due to rng but basically played all keys this week with it and always somewhat between 13 to 17% - which is fair enough, never bother playing td again
oh and the biggest plus, you never need to worry about where youre facing to not pull half the dungeon
marble hemlock
@whole mantle The opener in the pins is assuming large-scale AoE. There will always be a point where using FoK over spending your CP is more beneficial to your overall DPS, but there is 3 variables to it:
- The amount of EB you run
- The amount of crit you have
- The amount of mobs you will be hitting
Fuu did some sims on it a while back, and the cutoffs, if i remember correctly, were as follows (assuming 40% crit) - 1EB = 11targets, 2EB = 8targets, 3EB = 6targets
Having more crit will lower those target count thresholds.
magic willow
Guys, im actually using CLF in raid, but Im watching most of assa players using BoD with VoP or Strife, so im not rlly sure, sims says that CLF but which is the reason they use BoD
vague rock
clf is technically more boss damage but most people just use bote for its more flexible uses
upper fiber
Hey guys I was wondering if my opener on Heroic Vexxiona was good... we are a RL friends guild and we dont have that much dps so I thought playing with my m+ gear would be worth ( 3xSS , 3x EB ) . I Play with subterfuge too. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wmzgYpqrfny3b1B9/#fight=13&type=damage-done&source=9&view=timeline
royal lantern
"dont have that much dps" like not enough dps on adds or on the boss?
upper fiber
Both
strange python
If u lack boss dmg swap ur traits and go ham on vexiona
fading wigeon
Have you checked the pins?
sacred ore
Found it
For ST with MA and BotE use Blood into Vanish+Finisher after TB within Vendetta
For AoE, It provides more EB procs (still only up to 5). Best used either after applying 3 garrotes and a rupture, before spamming fan/prio.
Didn't get it tho
vast forum
after TB
within vendetta
into vanish+finisher (obviously envenom)
means
when vendetta is on target, you use it after toxic blade before the first envenom inside that toxic blade
vital crown
Hi, does anyone know if you can proc gushing wound corruption with fan of knives
faint harness
bote minor and CLF major 
wet ruin
quasi pewter
it is if you play vop major
quasi pewter
feels 
strange python
Subterfuge without ss?
quasi pewter
yes
strange python
It feels because vanish is still 2 min I guess
quasi pewter
vanish is not very impactful
strange python
That's interesting
quasi pewter
unless you play ss build
subtle bane
guide says must have atleast one nothing personal but sims tell me blightborne infusion. who should i trust
quasi pewter
trust sims
and idk what guide would say you must have atleast one
if its one in this discord it should be adjusted
its recommended to have 1 because the first trait does usually sim good for most people
but not always ๐
faint harness
the only reason to run 1 NP is the energy, but im sure that at certain haste levels you dont need it
scarlet sequoia
2 energy per second ๐คฃ
quasi pewter
just run vop major
faint harness
i swear i've tried every single build in here
vop major with tripple NP, tripple SS exsang
all of it
quasi pewter
but have you tried blindside
faint harness
no 
quasi pewter
faint harness
the reality is that sin is so boring on its own, that you have to experiment with different builds to avoid going insane
i dont think i would want blindside to be good, but at this point ill take anything different
rigid mango
I mean every spec is kinda beige nowadays
serene basin
guys, do we have a haste cap?
rigid mango
Sin is just kinda satisfying and relaxing
faint harness
i mean ye its great that it aint gcd capped like other specs
rigid mango
Better than being some sub/outlaw fanboy that loves chanting about how sin is sleeper
quasi pewter
faint harness
not like sub is gcd capped
distant cypress
All outlaws are filthy
rigid mango
blue name
quasi pewter
orange name 
distant cypress
What's bad about blue name xD
frosty obsidian
how much corruption do you guys play in raid
rigid mango
39
quasi pewter
59
distant cypress
39
rigid mango
74
quasi pewter
everywhere
faint harness
i play 59
rigid mango
I play 74 everywhere in hc when I feel like it
faint harness
on all bosses except ilgynoth
ocean urchin
guys when do you pop blood of the enemy in the opener?
faint harness
dont want to be the guy that blows up the raid cus of a smallie chasing
quasi pewter
before ur first envenom
rigid mango
39 in raid because my corr doesn't allow 40-59 comfortably and it being worth
ocean urchin
master assassin
rigid mango
Can easily make it a thing
distant cypress
!deleteoutlawspec
rigid mango
tbf
serene basin
hum, how much crit do i want to have? im simming myself but the values doesnt help much
scarlet sequoia
1953
quasi pewter
you want as much as sims best for you
vast forum
@frosty obsidian hc parse runs should be 100+ or pussy
quasi pewter
parse runs 
vast forum
parse runs are fun tbh
thinking you're good because of hc parsing is a different story ๐
frosty obsidian
lmao
grim trellis
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
agile phoenix
why are rogues using master poisoning /mfd in high keys for assa?
rigid mango
They aren't
agile phoenix
im looking right now
strange python
Master poisoner If someone does first big pull TD as assa and then respecs maybe
strange python
Well, thats the only thing that comes to mind for me
agile phoenix
oh i thought it showed you what they done the key in
whole mantle
@marble hemlock thx man ๐
agile phoenix
but ye makes sense
jagged forge
What is the best essence for raid? as assas
strange python
Ripple to easily dodge TfB and big Eye of Corruption with 80 corruption.
Seriously though, just sim yourself. Generally most people use Blood because it sims highest for them and has decent value on most Fights.
Breath sims higher for some, but is generally not "accepted" by most. Even though is has biiig value on most Fights, that isn't reflected at all in a Patchwerk sim.
Other than that Clf and Worldvein are high.
vast forum
it's not that it's not accepted, it's the damage profile required on most fights fits better with nice burst windows that bote provides
jagged forge
World vein is best when others also use it? right?
vast forum
using globals to snipe small adds on carapace is padding but would show up big on the dps meters
jagged forge
I've heard it is the best when you have 3 ppl or more
vast forum
worldvein is best if you can stand still and ppl have it, yes
which is not the case on most relevant bosses
jagged forge
So a safe bet is blood?
vast forum
blood is used on most (if not all) late progress fights
strange python
@vast forum ye i'm not saying it's perfect in every use scenario. But if I run it on shadhar because it's the highest ST Sim, and still get flamed because I don't use Blood then I'd say it's not accepted :D
vast forum
flamed by who? guildies?
you won't get flamed by any sane rogue if you use what sims highest for you
on shad'har that is
muted sail
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ivDyJJtTMbM4R5aS6XUHKg if anyone has tips for better dps pls tell me
royal lantern
better everything
your traits are bad
ss is not that good for st
essences need too be rank3
honest vessel
especially with MA
honest vessel
EV isnt a very good corruption if you have alternatives
muted sail
Can u guys tell me what MA EV and PP is ?
shy dust
Master assassin. Echoing void. Purification protocol
muted sail
Thanks
sudden canyon
how much corruption should i be at?
ornate turtle
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
honest vessel
corruption totals are completely up to you and your situation
i stay <40 for mythic prog but keys <59
everyone is different
vestal granite
isnt below 40 better than below 39 because you get 1 more corruption points? pls someone simulate it
subtle tundra
huh
plain thistle
what
faint harness
rigid mango
Ok sorru
You're being pedantic but ok
<40
There are u happy now @vestal granite ?
plain thistle
oh lol, hahaha
vestal granite
Thanks a lot. I m feeling better now. Still sad, but better
rigid mango
Good for you buddy
vestal granite
I wonder if theres a world where 40 corup is better because they get bonuses on taking damage or being lower hp
nova breach
Hey guys! Have a noobish question โ how do you track your dots on one and multiple targets?
I'm new to sin so I'm completely unfamiliar with that thing
rigid mango
Most ui/plater addons help out a lot
strange python
you can use a nameplate addon like Plater which displays your dots above the target
nova breach
thanks, I use standard ui (with slightly tunes) and I have to take a closer look at threat plates' settings or choose different ๐
fading walrus
guys im wondering what would be ideal for stats when it comes to ST
im currently on 38%crit 20 % haste / but ive heared that 26% is better.
i have the haste ring from mecha not the proc but the one with alot of haste to replace abit of crit for haste
faint harness
where did you hear 26% would be better
vast forum
you should aim for 100% crit, infinite haste/mastery/vers
vague rock
wait mastery increases double dose damage as well?
so that's why honed mind gives me like 3k dps gain
quasi pewter
yes
lapis osprey
Hey guys, is 20% haste mandatory in PvE content? Wearing highest simming corruptions (that aren't IS) puts me down to 15% but I have the option to bring it back up with gems/enchants, though if I do I sim lower
quasi pewter
no
faint harness
lapis osprey
So I can go with more vers than haste?
quasi pewter
thats for you to decide
lapis osprey
harsh sphinx
are you using TA or something
harsh sphinx
lapis osprey
Padding in heroic to get parses
harsh sphinx
quasi pewter
going over 59 for logs
distant lava
not going over 100 for logs
quasi pewter
not being able to get rank 1 without 60+
harsh sphinx
Feel like you just equipped all your 470 corruption and said "this looks good"
lapis osprey
Well I simmed it first
I'm afraid to go higher lmao
I'm just asking for help idk man
:/
I don't go over 59 usually in raid
lapis osprey
Would echoing/tendy be better?
Idk that's just what simmed the highest
Everyone keeps telling me to sim and when I do it still sucks
quasi pewter
lapis osprey
Patchwerk 5mn yeah
vast forum
what boss is gonna last 5 min on a parse run?
if you don't kill wrathion in 1 min, is it even a parse run? 
lapis osprey
Not sure what you're calling a parse run but I don't have friends or a guild I'm just pugging
lapis osprey
Both
If I had a choice I'd do differently but unless I get decent parses I don't sooo
Idk man I'm asking for help and every time I get roasted instead 
vast forum
i'm not roasting you, i'm just sad when i look at your corruption choices
lapis osprey
It is roasting me for my corruption "choices"
lapis osprey
@scarlet sequoia I need parses, no friends no guild, so I'm gonna pug for em. I need to know how I can properly manage my gear in order to get the best looking parses so I can get in a guild
With that, how to sim properly since I'm apparently doing it wrong
latent field
Why not get in a mid level guild first?
lapis osprey
I'm in an HC guild right now but it's a shitshow I'm not raiding with em anymore
latent field
^
arctic walrus
If you want to be realistic, you can't achieve that high of parses with maximum heroic gear, limited corruption, and having runs not intently focused on parsing. Parsing you need quick kills and extreme luck, and if your guild just runs it once a week, there isn't a good chance of parsing
scarlet sequoia
well not to brag or anything but im nr 4 all star assa rogue in hc just from boost runs
so dont need log runs to get logs
vague rock
you only neeed to wear good corruptions for the 90+ logs
faint harness
getting 2 cds in heroic would be nice
arctic walrus
I mean yeah that's the whole more than once a week thing
harsh notch
I saw in the pinned messages the opening rotation on AOE targets, but i don't have BotE do i still cast 5 fan of knives after or do i env at 5 combo points?
lapis osprey
I'm only looking for 75-80 parses
arctic walrus
what do you currently parse
lapis osprey
Most my parses are blue
scarlet sequoia
if you cannot get 75-80 parses then there might be some other issues than corruptions
fleet anchor
Even 75-80 parses are honestly going to be hard without good corruption
scarlet sequoia
are u very low ilvl
lapis osprey
I have some 75-80 on ilgynoth, wrathion, shadhar and that one third boss
arctic walrus
then it's a matter of knowing your class at that point
lapis osprey
The blue parses are outdated
scarlet sequoia
you do not need to wear insane corruptions and 80+ corruption to get good logs rofl
lapis osprey
I had terrible gear and was playing on another spec
The ones I got recently are purple but finding a group etc
fleet anchor
Like experience I have with playing some geared alts recently
Is that for Heroic I start to scratch 70s with "decent" gear and OKish corruption, R3 essences, and decent traits
You have to probably be over 460-465 ilevel and have a decent setup to break 70s in Heroic
lapis osprey
When I did my old blue parses I didn't have a lot of things I have right now
Like r3 essences
Or decent corruption
latent field
What do you have right now?
fleet anchor
What's your gear/setup look like?
faint harness
@fleet anchor i have 460 on my alt DH with 1 lashing void and getting purps, but before that it was shit
and i have played DH for 150 days total or something, so not a nub on it
lapis osprey
faint harness
so i generally agree with that sentiment
crimson palm
Can you be a noob on a dh?
faint harness
its easy to sit on a 475 perch and say its impossible to get bad logs
lapis osprey
II'm currently at 469 ilvl
fleet anchor
What do you sim at?
faint harness
then you should get easy purps/oranges if you play correctly
@crimson palm yes, mostly old ppl i would assume
zoomers are the best DHs
faint harness
greens
harsh notch
If i have 4 combo points (cap 5) do i envenom or do i mutilate for 5 and overcap by 1?
Which provides most dps?
crimson palm
What exactly is your question @lapis osprey
lapis osprey
I need parses, no friends no guild, so I'm gonna pug for em. I need to know how I can properly manage my gear in order to get the best looking parses so I can get in a guild
With that, how to sim properly since I'm apparently doing it wrong
crimson palm
You sim your gear and play your class properly
strange python
show us a top gear sim
fleet anchor
70k sims are a good starting point but that's gonna be very borderline for hitting 75%+ consistently
That's basically on the 70-75 percentile borderline realistically
Definitely possible if you play super well and double pot, flask, etc. but that's not a super high sim either
Well-geared Rogues are gonna be pushing 78k-80k sims at least, a lot more for pure ST with IS or something
lapis osprey
@strange python I'm not sure what a top gear sim would be since I don't know how to sim properly
I posted a corruption setup earlier that simmed the highest but I was told it's garbo so I don't really know
lapis osprey
?
limber tinsel
I push 80k simming
lapis osprey
I posted a corruption setup earlier that simmed the highest but I was told it's garbo so I don't really know
faint harness
91k right now without IS 
fleet anchor
DungeonSlice sims don't count ๐
(Just joking, but 90k is probably the high end of most Assassination sims in general. 80k is where a lot of people seem to land that aren't farming Mythic gear though.)
vestal granite
semi off topic where do sub and outlaw land in comparison?
fleet anchor
Outlaw probably can get in the ballpark with the right setup, but most Outlaw players are rarely going to care or roll out a ST-specific setup
vestal granite
why would that be when all your st does blade flurry?
vestal granite
used to love outlaw in 7.25 but nowadays it jsut feels so clunky :/
fleet anchor
Because, for one, ST sims are only gonna be high with Blade Rush instead of Dancing Steel. Second is AoE Corruptions like TD/Lash
Also different Essence setups for ST vs. AoE, double Brigand's Blitz, etc.
To optimize for ST would be a fairly different setup
lapis osprey
What's HoD?
fleet anchor
Overall Outlaw is probably like 5% behind Assassination for ST
limber tinsel
heart of darkness
it out sims everything else rn
I had 48% mastery and it was out simming double dose
vestal granite
thats an azerite trait not a corruptionno?
distant lava
fleet anchor
I mean, maybe if you care about top-end parses only
distant lava
the most RNG one I'll give you that
fleet anchor
I don't think it's best overall
distant lava
yeah it's not
fleet anchor
I mean all the HoD items have DD on them anyway so..not really a choice you have to make between them lol
limber tinsel
it does the most damage per corruption
fleet anchor
Either
limber tinsel
raden helmet has dd and hod in the same row
limber tinsel
yea 3x hod is insane for damage
quasi pewter
no
harsh notch
Or is it at 3 combo poitns that i should avoid mut
quasi pewter
you mutilate until 4 cp
harsh notch
Ah oki
scarlet sequoia
shit like this is literally in the guides
harsh notch
Yeah i read them just here to make sure
harsh notch
Don't gotta be a dick about it
vestal granite
I see a lot of people pointing at the guides. Dont forget that there are - reasons - for why we would want to use finishers at X amount of CP
It has to do with damage per energy / damage per combo point / (damage per gcd) if you may waste resources
so from this point of view asking when and why is important
its not pointed out anywhere
scarlet sequoia
?
drifting cloud
its because robots did the math so assume guides are correct
or dont, you can play whoever you want
prime void
cobalt pelican
me ๐
quasi pewter
drifting cloud
then months into patch 20 people a day ask questions that are answered in pins, guides and literally everywhere you click here and then they get offended that someone would point it out
strange python
once AI is advanced enough discord will suggest answers to similar questions as your own
just give it 10 more years
vestal granite
yeah true, though I will say not everyone has played for months and on the plus side this allows us to have these wonderful constructive discussions ๐
scarlet sequoia
nothing constructive about telling someone to mutilate at 3 combo points like stated in the guides
vestal granite
yes it is, it will save everyone in his raid 3 seconds of their time because now he will down bosses faster
cobalt pelican
i blindside only at 1.5 combo points on thursdays and 2.3 combo points on sundays, raiding any other days is against my religion
crimson palm
once AI is advanced enough discord will suggest answers to similar questions as your own
@strange python this can already be done
crimson palm
Would need to parse training data from class discords
scarlet sequoia
i have 1236 haste, 903 mastery, 1643 crit and 548 versatility. which stats should i go for?
cobalt pelican
expertise
vestal granite
should probably go for versatility because of factoring / diminishing returns
rigid mango
vestal granite
best to sim your character
crimson palm
Go for honor level it's most important dps increase
crimson palm
I'm no expert but that's casual
glacial steppe
if you dont have all fishing achievements you wont do dps anyways
ashen sparrow
So I have a question because I'm a bit confused :p
which are the major essences we go for? Pretty much every guide says differently
untold current
just lookup the essences people use on a fight by fight on logs
ashen sparrow
Blood of the enemy, the one I don't have cry
strange python
perfect time to grind it
ashen sparrow
n1 on Ra-den does have vision but that seems rare overall
untold current
it is a good weekend for it
drifting cloud
its pve brawl
ashen sparrow
now?
drifting cloud
yes
drifting cloud
yes
untold current
think so
ashen sparrow
how many wins would that take to get r3 you reckon?
if it's 300 per then I guess it's like 100 from 0 to rank 3
untold current
i think u get additional honor from kills?
ashen sparrow
queued now so I'll get I will find out
good shout
this is amazing, glad you answered xD @untold current
arctic tulip
what gems, do we put in a gem slot? crit?
vast forum
whatever sims highest
arctic tulip
gotcha.. is anyone running like 55 corruption.. is it doable?
rigid mango
Yes
arctic tulip
thanks..
hollow ether
In the level 60 row, does anyone have suggestions on which is best suited for Nya raid? I have just been running Cheat Death while I learn the class (3rd week and loving it) but switched to Elusiveness for M+ this week and found it useful.
honest vessel
cheat death is really good for all content and fights, elusiveness can be good situationally but pressing feint is a dps loss anyway. Works on stuff like maut reflect which is coo
and then leeching can be nice for certain fights like drest
rigid mango
Tldr cheat is technically the worst but means you might not die on a good pull say, 1 every 10, if you fuck up a lot. That in comparison to easing the healers' jobs to me is a landslide diff
Unless the fight has no spikes at all
eager solstice
Whatโs the sweet spot on corruption? I know it depends on your play style but Iโm wondering if top players are playing with 59
rigid mango
Like drest or maut, where the damage you might take is predicatable and the other options are great
39/59
I havn't run more than 39 for nzoth but I'm also not comfortable w the fight
That being said 59 is doable most places
39 for m+ though.
hollow ether
@rigid mango thanks, I'll stick with CD for now!
rigid mango
undone scroll
within how much dps should you be doing of your simmed dps? and is that max dps or sustained?
vague rock
cheat death also has niche uses for soaking mechanics sometimes, it's pretty op depending on the boss
fading walrus
so i just got 6% corruption that i can fit in one of my ST gear since i run 2 ST gear one with IS and one with strictly flays
the 6% corruption fits in perfectly in my flay set cz it makes me sit on 59 corruption
but in my IS gear im alrdy 59
and when . i use the 6% in my flay set it wants me to swap everything enchants and gems to haste and im alrdy on 20% haste
cobalt pelican
ok
sim dps is the mean of your dps over 5minutes, you can find the dps at each point in time in the full report
there's no reason you can't be at like 95% of your sim number after taking into account variance (the sim will give you a max and a min iteration, as long as you're within this bound it's pretty acceptable) but nobody takes part in 5min patchwerk in wow anyway so don't worry a bout it
undone scroll
Ok and thats on raidbbots? Or is there a more preffered sim ?
Used to be a rogue only sim
fading walrus
@tropic ocean sry to bother u but id love ur input on that
cobalt pelican
shadowcraft doesn't exist anymore
steep obsidian
its actually still there just hasnt been updated for years
it was useful but simc is better in every way nowadays
tropic ocean
@fading walrus wouldnt cba switching all stuff for is
Its only good on like 3 bosses anyway
fading walrus
@tropic ocean whats good on 3 bosses ? the infinite or flays ?
cz i did like u said and got 2 sets of gear one with 1xIS rank 3 1x flay rank 2 1x gushing wounds and im on 59 corruption with that
and i made another set with 2x flays rank 2 and gushing and rank 1 td
tropic ocean
infinite stars
feral rune
whats the best azerite combination for single target/raid dps
exotic rose
Question, does weapon dps only affect melee (white attacks) or also abilities like envenom?
arctic walrus
Abilities, itโs your attack power
exotic rose
ty
high nacelle
how does a ilvl 475 r1 stars work with a ilvl 460 r3 piece? whats the damage of each proc?
quasi pewter
The sum of the numbers
high nacelle
ok thanks, so that's quite a boost adding any 475 piece
timid python
PB or CT this week
tropic ocean
whatever you like and depending on dungeon
quasi pewter
quasi pewter
jaunty arrow
Hidden talent? 
gaunt geyser
Hey guys i dont know if its correct section but im looking for BiS timewalking gear for rogue.
is it any site with it or something?
lethal python
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
steep obsidian
not really bll1nd and it changes each timewalking too depending on the ilvl your gear is scaled too
i play outlaw with greenskin legion legendary bracers, sephuz and 3 x deadshot traits normally in it and it seems op, corrution doesnt do much if anything I think sockets are good
royal lantern
black temple daggers are good for tw if i remember it
lean marten
i don't think the ilvls are competitive unless u get some crazy trinket
royal lantern
when bc tw is up do the raid,get the tw version of them and you can use them for all tw dungeons
winter gale
Ok, so I came here, asked 100 questions for Cara and I killed it last night. I am now here to ask 200 questions for Nโzoth ๐
I supose IS is utter shit on that fight?
lean marten
if ur lucky it will have decent stacks on nzoth after psychus phases
otherwise pretty dooky
low prism
Hi Guys, any particular advice on how to sim for drest'agath mythic ?
brisk forge
Just do the normal sims and check logs what other ppl use for Essence etc if u are not sure what to use
jaunty arrow
For drest u can use reaping flame major and minor symbiotic
red plaza
Parsing on Drest is all about how well you can snipe debuffed tentacles and the 30 second burst on Drest.
tropic ocean
parsing on drest is about how much u ignore boss and dps debuffed tentacles and eyes
lethal heart
rigid mango
cunning quarry
whats the ideal stat weights? im at 31% crit, 21% haste, 32% mastery and 3% vers. I've got ring i can enchant and a socket free
strange python
Sim it
There no "ideal Stat weights" or proper BiS lists anymore
Just Go to raidbots, top Gear, and select all the enchants and gems you wanna sim further down
lean marten
if you just want to plug a buff in i've found crit is pretty good placeholder n cheap
before u sim it all out
strange python
I mean sure, "If you just want plug a buff in" you can just choose any secondary and roll with it. It's gonna be better than not having any, and they're all cheap.
But he specifically asked about the ideal Setup, and he can only figure his current ideal one out with Sims :P
Not like it takes long either. Without Premium it's like 5 Minutes or so?
lean marten
i mean, enchant/gem sims take the longest out of any sim becuase of how many combinations and how close they are
strange python
Ye, I didn't stop watch it or anything. But it doesn't take thaaat long from my experience. And like I said, If he's at a Point where he wants to go for the ideal Setup, then thats the way
mystic crest
what stat should i be stacking more of
rigid mango
Unsure if troll
opaque grotto
My man said โI ainโt gonna read 3 posts above meโ
harsh notch
In the guide https://www.wowhead.com/guides/assassination-rogue-azerite-essences essence https://gyazo.com/7f9a1115e6bf828804e91a97a31b1226 it says worlvein is #1 by far, but why is everyone using botE in m+ and raids, is it not updated? What should i be using?
According to Warcraftlogs that is ^
rigid mango
Fights don't always allow for maximum value of wv, and people prefer bote
The issue is never the raw output
harsh notch
but if i were to go worldvein would i still perfom like if i had bote?
rigid mango
I don't even know what to respond
lean marten
becuase its versatile compared to WV
lean marten
unless u stand still in WV it's worse
harsh notch
But if i were to utilize worldvein would I get more dps from it?
rigid mango
strange python
If you sim higher with worldvein for Patchwerk than BotE, and you properly use it on a Fight like shadhar: yes you will have higher DPS.
High movement Fights etc. can fuck it up though. But the range is ok
rigid mango
WV sims better because it is better numerically, but in reality punishing. Bote might not be as high in a 100% uptime sim, but it's simple and effective and straight forwards.
It should be obvious if you read what wv does that it has a heavy opportunity cost
harsh notch
Yeah
hardy wind
at what point do you ignore sims and just use trial and error? IS sims high but never seems to do much damage but TA always seems to do the job (sim has less than 1k dps difference between the two)
drifting cloud
depends on the fight
and TA swings the same as IS
so its just observation bias
but at 1k difference you should probably always run TA
deft obsidian
I threw caution in the wind about a week or two ago. IS I find personally is too much rolling the dice. As Ryler eludes to TA is just as bad at times. I much prefer the new aim of expedient till it comes out my eyes
Currently running R4 TA regardless of the above. Along with 1 gushing and R5 expedient
hardy wind
most of my stuff is honed mind/expedient right now with either a TA or IS thrown in there. I feel like I've never really had a fight where I was mad at my TA but I usually scream when IS never procs
deft obsidian
I tend to run IS for a farm raid and swear to never do it again.
grave trail
LOL you're lucky then, just last night I had my TA 4 do 35k dmg somehow 3 min fight.
TA feels horrible
deft obsidian
Running at 41% haste in raids and pray for TA procs instead
Still mad when I see others with better procs. Corruption eh
white wyvern
TA isn't hasted.
deft obsidian
Iโm just referring to flat consistent damage running high haste
Regardless of shit procs Iโll do alright
grave trail
How do you know that PooC on my DH it def procs more often
grave trail
What is the Spell Data on TA then
brisk forge
is there any nerfs on stuff that iยดve missed, sim 2k lower now then for few days ago :S
white wyvern
white wyvern
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
grave trail
So you say im biased eh
white wyvern
Yes, you are looking at one 2 min fight.
grave trail
2 min and half
white wyvern
grave trail
If i would to dig all my logs I can assure you my DH has more consistent DPS out of it
white wyvern
Do it.
rigid mango
And that's entirely anecdotal
grave trail
not on here It would be too much data
rigid mango
Unfortunatly it's the same for everyone
And you've just been unlucky I suppose.
TA isn't hasted so dh's wont be proccing it more
grave trail
unlucky or my rogue is bugged? cause it does happen quite often where it does less than 1 mil damage on longer fights
rigid mango
Unlucky
grave trail
oh so my DH is just that lucky right
deft obsidian
Dude Iโve had 4 minute fights with no procs. Corruption is well , fun
rigid mango
No, your dh might be on point with the rng
timid coral
but that spelldata page says the tick rate is hasted, no? So at certain haste points you get more ticks out of each proc?
rigid mango
But saying that it's got anything to do with class is incorrect :)
white wyvern
@timid coral you need to look at trigger.
rigid mango
It's entirely random and a fixed "1 per minute" procrate for everyone
Yeah it's rppm dude
This is not a new thing
grave trail
all im saying is out of all the corruption ive used its the most inconsistent which is why i prefer IS for ST but thats like 2 fights
rigid mango
IS is good on shadhar and nzoth but I'd probably pick TA everywhere else, maybe even nzoth. Depends on a lot of stuff
It's also very inconsistant
white wyvern
@timid coral that is how often the damage ticks.
deft obsidian
Both are for sure. Ideally just run gushing wounds and expedient. Lulz
grave trail
You think i wouldnt be running GW if i had one
grave trail
i play regularly on 4 toons, only seen one piece, and it was on my healer
deft obsidian
Likewise. Thankfully got it on a 475 but considering I do 4 caches, 4 pvp chests and 12 ish mask runs. Iโve seen zip else
rigid mango
Just spend gold like me :)
deft obsidian
Regularly have GW boots on AH but like 5-6m ๐คข
brisk forge
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/f3gbMBwcwzd7XwsKd8btdS and https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dSGksgC1oDkyV6jT5byNxL
rigid mango
brisk forge
dunno what has happends :S
timid coral
@white wyvern does the duration of the tentacle get reduced, so you always get only 10 ticks, regardless of haste?
rigid mango
Who even cares about it now tier is over
grave trail
exactly
brisk forge
few days apart
rigid mango
You didn't sim ttk on the first one?
brisk forge
nah but scroll down on the 80k one, with the same setup as 78k was 80k200ish
rigid mango
Might've also been vop major APL changes ticking over, can't remember the timings there.
Idk dude, why care you have a better setup now :)
brisk forge
nah the 78k was today xd
deft obsidian
Feels bad ๐
brisk forge
stil enjoy vop playstyle but just so confused about the diff xd
rigid mango
Yeah but on the one today u didn't sim with ttk in ur chest
grave trail
yeah U have ss and ttk
deft obsidian
Ding le ding
brisk forge
with ss the one with 80k simed stil 80k with diff on like 150ish dps
but w/e just gonna go with the weird drop ๐
grave trail
now the english version
final harbor
should i not stack nothing personal twice?
frozen karma
depends if it sims ahead or not
weary saffron
Void Elf or Kul Tirassian ? Can't decide d:
thin patio
Night elf
vital dew
How bout them new abilities huh
honest vessel
looks pretty sick
vital dew
Slaughter is gonna be nice in pvp, unholy is losing their healing absorb niche
honest vessel
the first one looks like a lot of fun in rotation
strange python
In the Assassination Rogue raid dps guide, why is there a single target and a multi target talent setup? Should I be changing my talents between pulls?
tardy marlin
is cyclotronic blast still good for pvp?
strange python
compared to other trinkets right now I don't think so
inland gull
you drest and bike for 2s :p
but if none ToS trinket is 5-6% overall in pvp aswell
not much compared to on demand burst ones, but i use that
bike is easy 80-100k
crisp hollow
Writhing segment is doing really well on Nzoth logs, is it being used ST or is it alright to let it hit thought harvesters too?
cobalt pelican
is it
crisp hollow
top by a sizeable margin but im not sure why
cobalt pelican
are you sure you're looking at assassination
arctic walrus
and nzoth
cobalt pelican
i see a single player in the top 100 playing it
crisp hollow
im wondering what they did with it
arctic walrus
arctic walrus
and it's probably not because it's better, but it's their only choice
but it's only 6 people who used it so you probably have time to ask each individually
cobalt pelican
yeah, i think it's probably the case that he has coral but fucking hated playing it so chose his best non-coral trinket
which was probably mythic drest if his others were just base dungeon shit
ionic hemlock
Hmm, so Shadowlands? yay shiv back?
cobalt pelican
yay..
arctic walrus
yeah the only thing they're doing for the entire expansion is adding back shiv
ionic hemlock
oh all the things they could do, we get shitty pvp talents lol
arctic walrus
wow is saved
crisp hollow
how should coral be used on nzoth? put it on him from the start and try to stack during downtime?
cobalt pelican
shiv is a pretty good ability tbh if it still has enrage dispel
ionic hemlock
true
scarlet sequoia
need mop smoke bomb back
dusky plinth
Quick Question, how do I decide whether I should take poison bomb or ct in m+?
strange python
how do you rotate your font and razor coil trinkets?
in raid I mean
razor coral*
tropic ocean
- Use font 4s precombat and after that pretty much on cooldown as long as Vendetta has less than 20s on its cooldown.
- Then, with in-fight Font, the idea is to hold Vendetta(+Vanish) a bit to make it also profit from Coral. It's a gain to hold it until Coral is ready (hence the 20s condition above) but...
strange python
I don't understand
fleet whale
if gouge came back that would be nice too. Outlaw and sub could get garrote back too
fleet whale
only lame thing about coral is that it doesn't really do anything on pull. It's still a cool trinket though
tropic ocean
it procs dmg too
fleet whale
I'm actually shocked that coral hasn't been nerfed. Blizz historically have either made the raid's last tier of trinkets really good, or nerf a previous tier's trinket to the ground
steep obsidian
its kinda shit on quite a few bosses this raid though
fading walrus
so alot of high key players are running crimson tempest
so on big pulls i usually go for
crisp hollow
the rotation as far as CT usage is pinned
fading walrus
oh cool
cant find it
found it nvm
i wonder if having scent of blood would change it tho
but i assume its g1 g2 g3 CT rupture vanish> g4 g5 g6 repeat > shadowmeld stealth > repeat
if its a really big pull i mean
cz i have 2x SS and 3 xEbs i reckon fan is way more important
edgy pawn
you should avoid running scent if possible
drifting cosmos
Not sure how high is that key but that's a lot of gcd to set up
And only running 2 ss
fading walrus
it simmed 4k+ dps for me so i duno
im trying to get the third SS havent been lucky
drifting cosmos
๐ค Sim for m+ trash packs, havent done that before
That assumes other ppl don't burst down the mobs too
Don't think it would actually pull off that easily
glacial steppe
How can someone be shocked that blizt didnt touch coral yet when arcano on 860 baseline was bis for quite some classes even in antorus? ๐ค
stoic token
Anyone .. Run leech poison on grievous weeks?
raven mica
you mean 955 socketed arcanocrystals that people got out of argus tokens
stoic token
For M+ anyone have rough stat priority? dungeon slice sim says crit haste..
strange python
you mean 955 socketed arcanocrystals that people got out of argus tokens
@raven mica I got a pretty high one from that ๐คฃ donโt remember the exact ilvl but was very lucky
glacial steppe
@raven mica mained MM back then, 860 Arcano outsimmed max ilvl Pantheon :)
vague rock
crit haste is good for dungeons. You can go full crit mastery for better aoe damage but on longer single target fights it's nice to have some haste I think
rigid mango
Haste is bad
arctic tulip
So, is it crit mast?
rocky ruin
Just saw new covenant abilities and for the rogue 7 Combo Points? I know its still WIP, but was there ever thing like 7 combo points
sullen pagoda
Yes
rocky ruin
For M+ is always crit, mast/vers
sullen pagoda
We had 10cp anticipation
rocky ruin
Really?
sullen pagoda
Ye
rocky ruin
Wow okay i thought it was typo
pseudo hamlet
@sullen pagoda werent these CP(in anticipation) just stashed for another finisher? Because the covenant ability means that you could use your finishers AS they were 7 CP.
sullen pagoda
yes it was like a stash @pseudo hamlet
rocky ruin
At the end of week we know what will happen to the assa spec
vestal granite
hopefully they will rework the comedy wet noodle fart sounds and animations :/ the only thing I hate about it.
rocky ruin
im kinda interested in the talents
and the illness outlaw is gone maybe or its becoming worse then before
vestal granite
wouldnt be surprised, outlaw has become worse every time they touched it
brisk forge
Dont mention combat pls... Stil hurts ๐
rocky ruin
Does anyone know why combat was replaced?
runic stream
Hi, is this worth to use agility gem anymore?
arctic walrus
If it still sims good for you yeah
strange python
hey guys I'm new here, do any of you know if there is any confirmation on if gushing wounds corruption scales of our mastery as assa?
strange python
aah cool
turbid zealot
opinions of the Kyrian ability for rogues?