think were super strong on the stuff we need to do
#assassination
tropic ocean
lean marten
gotta get specifics to be niche
tiny finch
Quick question, why are people taking blood of the enemy on ST fights if worldvein ressonance sims higher? Like Maut for ex
fleet anchor
I would argue that unless Assassination is doing top damage on Shadhar/Maut (and it is not) then it is pretty medicore since when even Fire Mages have a higher average on Shadhar and within spitting distance on Maut, you know it's pretty broken.
Warriors/Hunter/Mages are generally in a stronger spot and DHs probably as well, not to mention the raid buff they bring
tiny finch
i know it sucks on fights with a lot of movment
fleet anchor
Realistically you could run a raid without any Rogue and it would hardly make a difference.
I love Rogue but this has been a rough tier. That's just the fact of the matter. We can make the best of it, but there are some majorly broken specs out there and we aren't one of them.
Fire Mages are broken beyond all belief right now lol
lean marten
fire mages being op doesn't make rogue bad
fleet anchor
Arms Warriors are pretty busted too with the right gear
tropic ocean
superior scaling y
fleet anchor
Well, I don't believe I said Rogue was bad. I said mediocre. There is a large difference. 😛
lean marten
well fire mages being op doesn't make rogue mediocre either
fleet anchor
Rogue is decidedly in the middle of the pack across the board.
Hunter/Warrior/Mage/DH all are stronger overall
And/or bring required raid buffs
And on a tier where most fights have a strong cleave element, Assassination being focused on boss damage only is not a massive strength. Very few pure boss DPS checks.
Demo Warlock too, forgot about them.
lean marten
this is the best patch for class diversity in bfa with corruption rng
fleet anchor
It wouldn't have been too hard for Assassination to end up having a rather strong tier if we had a really strong corruption interaction
Or some dagger trait that was unique/strong
But some of these specs that have interactions between OP Azerite traits and corruptions are very busted
lean marten
fire mages get their best corruptions fairly easily. i wouldn't be suprised to see rogues and other melees start slamming with full GW builds
patent topaz
I kind of maintain 3 chars and ive never seen gw
fleet anchor
We'll see over time. Will be hard to put together a full set due to it scaling from ilevel
Arms Warriors scale just as well from Expedient in terms of dps%/corruption as we do from GW though
fleet anchor
Look at other spec unique affixes for DPS/corruption
fleet anchor
Literally twice the value of TA
Devour Vitality for Ferals is like...
50% stronger than GW
fleet anchor
Feral with good gear probably does more ST damage than Assassination, so I wouldn't throw stones 😄
tropic ocean
yeah but still
so does survival for several tiers
still not taken
so i dont care about their stuff 😄
fleet anchor
Feral pumps lol.. Played Feral for many years. Super underrated spec all the time.
But not many really good Feral players historically. Just a low pop spec
But like, if they had put Devour Vitality on the Carapace Dagger
Assassination would suddenly be a top-tier spec
Corruption scalers are just a big deal atm
royal lantern
ye but the dagger got rngtentacle soooooo
fleet anchor
Same with the Hunter bow
royal lantern
it also doesnt help that rogue right now is "only good"
it has no raid utility this tier
fleet anchor
Dunno why we got the lame prize of "super rare unique weapon type, let's just slam a generic affix on it"
😛
patent topaz
in todays game specs are bad unless they are the very top
royal lantern
always want dh/monk/warrior simply because of buffs/debuffs,so if they wanna bench a melee, its a high chance its rogue right now if all peeps play good
fleet anchor
The raid meta right now is super anti-melee to begin with
royal lantern
and also doesnt help that dh is 1 of the best corruption abusers
royal lantern
you mean dh and a monk if you dont have a brm tank
glacial steppe
DH would be fine if corruptions wouldnt scale with haste
No clue why they did that
fleet anchor
Warrior/DH for buffs that's about it. Can skip the Warrior if you don't have Hunters though I guess.
But Arms is busted so why not
glacial steppe
Warrior will always be busted last raidtier so
fleet anchor
Well, it's just boomerang balancing
They left ToM how it was because Arms was really bad for a long time
Then forgot about it when making corruption stat multipliers
🤣
fleet anchor
Remember when they nerfed SS and told us Azerite should only be 3% per trait?
I remember
glacial steppe
making them obnoxious infinite star abuser
royal lantern
tom is one of those"wtf blizz"moments
like....how much mainstat do they get again with 3x?
20k+
glacial steppe
what can i as a former balance druid main say
royal lantern
when people run around with like 12-14k normaly rofl
glacial steppe
incarn is dead cus of SS dmg reduction
fleet anchor
Just sad when they applied rules inconsistently though
tropic ocean
k now 😄
fleet anchor
Bunch of specs got nerfed down to the company line of "3% per trait"
Other specs got ignored
Now it leads to scaling problems
tropic ocean
rogue is top tier m+ top tier arena, and decent in raid to come back to original argument
harsh sphinx
original shrouded
tropic ocean
if you are behind in dps its eitehr gear/corruption issue or player issue
glacial steppe
well
fleet anchor
Same thing with Blaster Master
glacial steppe
outlaw is top tier in m+ not rogue in general tho
sin isnt bad but definitely replaceable
even outlaw is imo
fleet anchor
I don't really like the idea of classes being balanced based on other areas of content though
Like I enjoy PvP and M+ as a time waster
But I primarily play the game to raid
And don't really like "compensation" nerfs like Outlaw in EP and whatnot that hurt raid performance
It's lame
"Outlaw too good in MDI so let's make them worse in raids" is not great to me as a primarily raid-focused person lol
tropic ocean
well i dont think dh will ever be really nerfed
fleet anchor
Or similar I feel like Assassination doesn't get as much attention
because they are rather strong in arena
harsh sphinx
what patch was the shrouded nerf? 8.1 or before that
fleet anchor
So people basically say "meh it's ok, Rogues are good at everything!"
glacial steppe
Lets remove shuriken combo and give em... nothing
royal lantern
not really assassination realted anymore tbh
glacial steppe
they kinda crippled sin aswell
fleet anchor
Well, it's the same overall principle, Rogue has been really ignored developmentally in BfA
glacial steppe
What the fuck is poison bomb supposed to be
fleet anchor
Most of the patches have just been to nerf certain traits because they are "too high"
Very little attention to the overall strength and play of the class
fleet anchor
It was
harsh sphinx
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/694293130845093898/unknown.png and this isn't?
tropic ocean
never said it isnt
fleet anchor
But they did over-nerf it too
tropic ocean
but arms was bad for how many tiers? 😛
harsh sphinx
who cares
tropic ocean
and current tos is not as closely broken to how shrouded was
i remember in uldir using blue shrouded azerite
over 370
harsh sphinx
it def is
tropic ocean
cuz the trait was so strong
nah its not
if oyu compare it 1:1
its overpowered yes
but not to the same extend ss was
fleet anchor
Like SS is only good when you use Subterfuge, which was difficult when MA was stronger due to crit levels
It's coming around now again a bit
fleet anchor
Yes but that was with buffed SS and also GCB cheese
tropic ocean
before nerfs
fleet anchor
My point is primarily that they just went a bit overkill on SS nerfing it
Making it a middle-tier, 3rd best trait was probably too much considering the build constraints
tropic ocean
yeah definetely
fleet anchor
DD slots in to basically every build
And is tuned generally stronger
And takes no skill to use
Was a bad decision imo
lean marten
except m+
fleet anchor
But SS was tuned to exacting specifications of "3% per trait"
Even though that logic has been ignored on a lot of other class/spec/traits
So it felt like them sticking to the letter of the law without looking bigger picture
glacial steppe
SS was overtuned and yet we werent #1 melee in uldir
glacial steppe
what do we do on cleave fights nowdays? tunnel boss with generic dd build or spec outlaw
atleast most of us
fleet anchor
I don't think the Assassination class aura has changed since launch iirc
Despite us taking pretty big trait nerfs
echo cargo
imagine being blizzard and looking at BM and Fire Mage and then other classes, and going "yeah, this seems good"
royal lantern
eh, they didnt really care that much about balance in bfa
always felt like that they thought"lets see how it plays itself out"
btw, we had simmelar stuff happening for other classes too
holy priest with binding heal got nerfed mid raidtier during uldir cus it was better then other healers
harsh sphinx
someone made the point it seems everything they do is based on a developers perspective. instead of the players
royal lantern
glimmer in bod didnt get touched because"we dont want too hurt progress"^^
harsh sphinx
think it was seli
royal lantern
and glimmer was FAAAAR more overtuned(still is imo)
glacial steppe
glimmer got touched and its still busted
hmm
especially since you can have literally perma wings with Ie truth stacking
royal lantern
hpaladin is the ultimate "im lucky with the trait lottery"class ingame
paladin without glimmer is beyond worthless, glimmer made it the best healer that removes any kind of mana gating
tropic ocean
glimmer overtuned ? lol
i mean we should move to wow gen
but if anything is overtuned its healmonk lol
royal lantern
in bod it was ridicolous
royal lantern
revival is the worst healing cd ingame
glacial steppe
and lets be real here, revival is beyong garbage like
should be 20s cd for what it actually does lol
HFC monk was broken tho
i mean 300k hps is impressive but cheesed and not needed at all so its niche and fine imo
tldr is they really need to step up in shadowlands
and honestly? covid sucks but gives em some extra time they prolly need so
fleet anchor
Also screw you guys for making me have to look into Exsanguinate things again.
I've wasted like 4-5 hours of my life in the last day that I could have spent playing my Hunter! 🤣
strange python
make exsang great again! 
fleet anchor
Make Galecaller's Great Again?
grave trail
blizz just needs to make TA more consistent somehow i just hate the RNG right now with the daggers also never seen a GW or Expedient
glacial steppe
Make exsang affect all bleedings from all targets 
grave trail
do 5 mask every week 475 chest and pvp chest NO GW or Expedient since patch
glacial steppe
I have 1 expedient, lots of hentai, some useless stars
grave trail
IS only have one piece and its a 445 IS 2 which is useless
glacial steppe
Sucks anways
tropic ocean
@grave trail dont worry man same
glacial steppe
no dh = no IS abuse
strange python
ive a 445 IS3 ring and a 460 gw ring
strange python
talk about unlucky
grave trail
now on my DH i pretty much got every type of good corruption except again GW
fuck GW
grave trail
Im literally running TA level 5 and one severe or w/e is called crit% depending on fight ill lower
so its RNG fiesta for me
dark crag
Ta5 and crit% here
glacial steppe
our dh with t5 IS does 6mil
grave trail
it feels so horrible my only good parses are due to good TA appendage it literally does not matter how good i play the spec
trash system
TA**
otherwise i hang around 92-95
glacial steppe
parses in 8.3 kekw
grave trail
well parses are only thing left to do once u almost done with prog
glacial steppe
im just in a casual 2 day CE guild so parses are far away anyways since im a mechanic slave
plus no TA procs
dark crag
You guys bully kojiyama with your exsang stuff
harsh sphinx
did your TA proc in the blood window? grats you can get a top log
grave trail
its so garbage man
dark crag
Is ta the yellow?
glacial steppe
but its np ive just added some more rng to my build and went vision of perfection major
might aswell embrace the rng
grave trail
never tried VOP major lol but might as well
dark crag
IS can proc on other targets and TA can not proc at all at times
glacial steppe
Its fun if it procs and sucks if it doesnt
grave trail
now on DH it seems to proc more consistently im guessing its cause of haste buff
i see the other DH's on my raid get more consistent dmg off of it
grave trail
its a garbage system, i mean corruption can be fun just make it less RNG coming into shadowlands since my guess theyll adopt a similar system
harsh sphinx
ya the yellow is the tendies. but when it's in the blood window. just stupid rng
dark crag
I really hope this was just another beta test
grave trail
lmfao yeah that is indeed insanely lucky rav
dark crag
%stat stuff and stat procs are ok, but dmg proc stuff never worked
On trinkets ok, but not as random gear procs
dark crag
Too late pressed bote and eviscerated myself
harsh sphinx
i legit hands off keyboard during that shit phase but tendie procs carried me to a nice parse just to hammer in how stupid it is
lean marten
yall aren't bribing rdruid barks? casuls
spare grotto
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
fleet anchor
@harsh sphinx pretty sure both Tendies didn't have the buff there though
Just #1
If they spawn after you use it, they don't get it iirc
So gained like 88k from the bonus there, so only 1.5% of the tentacle damage overall. Mostly that parse just had a crazy number of procs. 8 procs in 3 minutes or so
The large spike is less because of BotE and more having 2 tendies spawned within a couple seconds of each other lol
tiny finch
how do we use Blood of the enemy on pull?
Im doing it like this
1 Mutilate til 4CP
2 Rupture
3 Mutilate
4 Garrote
5 Mutilate til 4CP
6 Vendetta
7 Toxic Blade
8 Blood of the enemy
9 Vanish
10 Envenom
11 Mutilate til 4CP
master assassin talented
harsh sphinx
bote after TB tho
tiny finch
Ah only now i saw the pins
"Blood of the Enemy:
For ST with MA and BotE use Blood into Vanish+Finisher after TB within Vendetta"
tiny finch
i see
thanks for the feedback nonetheless my friend
is there a reason not to use TB after the vanish for a crit chance?
i think its to put more envenoms on the Master Assassin window right?
harsh sphinx
not sure why tbh but i do that when the MA Mut's don't crit though
tiny finch
i see
harsh sphinx
since that one was wrong
harsh sphinx
this one. earlier one wasn't
tiny finch
ah ok
ok, and how about the bleeds
i am not renewing them on the blood of the enemy buff
is it correct or nah?
tiny finch
the weak aura starts to shine with 3 seconds left ( on blood of the enemy )
9 seconds left on garrote and 7 on rupture
quasi pewter
make sure ur bleeds are at 9+ seconds before you cast blood
tiny finch
let me test another opener
yeah 2 seconds left now
its on the openers only
for the 2nd and 3rd blood usage i manage to do it perfectly
quasi pewter
2s what
quasi pewter
2s left on blood and what
tiny finch
sometimes i can use garrote before for the 5 cp envenom
2s left on blood and the weak aura starts to shine telling me to refresh both garrote and rupture
let me try to print screen that
quasi pewter
you refresh after blood
tiny finch
yee
its feeling really great to use blood again
was using worldvein before
major
i saw a guide telling me to pool at least 120 energy to use TB
before i was getting like 75 - 90ish
was able to get 2 - 3 envenoms on that window
maybe 60+
tiny finch
yeah i had a similar reaction lol
latent pagoda
5mask as assassination , rexxar is insane, anyone care to share their tips or tricks and essence/azerite build for a 5mask ?
honest vessel
lotta bois run 3x NP 3x SS
time rexxar with a titan proc
he goes down v fast
alternatively, i heard that the boar spawns are based on rexxar's %health
so if you take it slow and steady and kill the boars asap you shouldn't get overwhelmed
latent pagoda
Oh wow that about the boar spawns makes perfect sense
I was blowing him up on pull
so that would cause the absolute mayham that would takeplace
thank you
What about essence
is the big aoe beam worthwhile?
honest vessel
uh idk what people are runnin, blood probably if i had to guess
but ive def seen people run purification
sour wraith
bote/pp/botd
fleet anchor
Honestly most of the trouble people have with boars are due to standing in the middle of the room then getting knocked into the three traps that are down in a row in the center.. if you park up against a wall for the start of the fight you don't have to worry about that either.
harsh sphinx
don't forget to sap/blind them at the end with thrall 🙂
proud epoch
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
bright mantle
do i pool for TB or use it on cooldown
rigid mango
both
strange python
I’m learning planning ahead is important. But I still suck
glacial steppe
im playing PP major in visions for dem memes
nothing better than instakilling some random elites from 50% hp
north basalt
Hello, I have a question regarding blood of the enemy and vision of perfection, should I wait for vanish to come off cd while using vision of perfection or should I just use blood on cd?
quasi pewter
on cd, otherwise no point in running vision
north basalt
yeah was just wondering because vanish has 30 secs longer cd :p
strange python
if vop major and bote sim equally which one should i go for in a mythic raid?
dark token
when do raidbots nightly builds come out, are the exang changes in?
quasi pewter
@strange python blood is more reliable
vop major i would only use for reclear memes
strange python
ok tyvm
calm lotus
Hey guys is Double Dose a 100% proc ? I mean it procs everytime when mutilate hit ?
strange python
no
calm lotus
so it's only based on luck ?
royal lantern
chance is really high during envenom
mutilate is "2hits" with 1 skill that have their own crit and poison apply chance
and,well, during your envenom you make that chance higher->higher chance for double poison->dd dmg
calm lotus
mmmh ok but according to raidbots https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hxfHXf2PAo7EmG9Vo4CPuX Double dose and mutilate should be my first dmg source but in my logs https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/1fLDqZJpzMdnaRWT#fight=25&type=damage-done&source=22 (took that one but i could take another one too) double dose and mutilate don't make the dmg they should be doing in my opinion
scarlet sequoia
what exactly are you saying bro
if you dont think your double dose damage is high enough then its probably because youre not optimizing it
dont envenom unless u have 100 ish energy ready to mutilate twice after
at least at lower gear lvls
doesnt matter as much when u get good gear but for now i'd still do it
calm lotus
i envenom when i reach like 4/5 combo point
scarlet sequoia
yeah congratulations
thats not what im saying
obviously u do that
but u pool a bit of energy before doing it so that youre not sitting there wasting your envenom + elaborate planning buff uptime
envenom buff increases your poison application chance by 30% = increasing your chance to proc double dose
makes sense?
calm lotus
yeah i know about that
scarlet sequoia
so whats confusing you
calm lotus
the fact that my double dose is not making enough dmg but i guess u just gave me a little tip now i'll wait a bit before casting my envenom😂
scarlet sequoia
you have to remember when you sim its 10k+ iterations and youre comparing that to 1 log
tropic ocean
you also play football so you naturally have downtime that sim doesnt have
calm lotus
you have to remember when you sim its 10k+ iterations and youre comparing that to 1 log
like i said i could have take another log
but thx you anyway 🙂
tacit pebble
feral shuttle
What kind of sims are people running going into last two? - I'm simming at about 80k ST running 5x twisted. Adding in a gushing adds almost 3kdps, a severe adds 1.5..still at like 82k..just seems kinda low compared to other classes?
agile phoenix
any high m+ players here? got couple questions
agile phoenix
just a very experienced rogue in m+
i wanna know if using beam when do you beam because if everything is dotted up and ticking your energy is going to be capped and ive always known that to be a bad thing
on packs etc
not bosses
or probably an easier answer is do you ever use beam? or just always use bote
tropic ocean
generally should use bote major
if you for whatever reason play iris major probably place into the same place you would use bote
aka
G1 G2 G3 R1 Iris 5xFoK
or probably even g1 g2 g3 iris rupture spam fok
ornate gazelle
does cheat death work in visions
supple mulch
How come people use subterfuge with double dose build?
indigo sinew
Cautrize works in visions so cheat death should work too
ornate gazelle
does vanish reset a fight in a vision?
dawn root
Yes vanish resets a fight
white wyvern
All except the one with Valeera in SW.
lean marten
only if the mobs lose vision of you. if you vanish in melee range of a detection mob can cuck u
strange python
hi guys , i dont really know how to open if i have Focusing Iris major essence , i know with Blood of the enemy is like : mutilate > rupture (at 4-5 combo) > garrot > mutilate > vendeta,toxic blade,bloood of the enemy, vanish > evenom > mutilate > evenm and so on
so how would it be with the the beam from iris
strange python
its on my alt , i dotn have BOTE (lvl1) because i didnt got that on other chars (just 2 other chars) , i could get from Mother - Vision of perfection, Worldvein , Purification, Formless void , cruciable flame
i have just breath , iris and lucid at lvl 3 here
so till i get BOTE , i was thinking about using that iris beam somehow into that opener
probably i could do the opener and when i finish that mutilate > envenom > muti > enven > iris beam
faint harness
Next Raidbots nightly build will include some Exsanguinate updates as researched/discussed in the #tc-research channel. Primarily this is a large (1.3%) gain for ST Exsanguinate using Blood of the Enemy, a small (0.4%) gain for Exsanguinate ST in general, and a very minor (0.2%) gain in Exsanguinate AoE. Changes involve the following:
- Move Blood of the Enemy to only happen after Exsanguinate is used
- In ST, ensure to refresh Garrote with the last GCD of the Subterfuge buff
- Never use Exsanguinate when the Subterfuge buff is up
It also cleans up some of the Vanish logic to match the existing SS/Subterfuge vanishes without Exsanguinate. The previous Exsanguinate-specific Vanish line was mostly not getting used and no longer optimal compared to the recently revamped Vanish conditions from the 02/29/2020 update above
strange python
its in the current nightly
faint harness
when i get ilgy shoulders i might play some exsang shenanigans
vast forum
just get gorak's
crimson palm
does this push bote ahead of clf?
strange python
is there a specific number of SS/EB traits that makes sin play well in m plus? Ive been running outlaw but would like to swap.
vast forum
3x SS and you're good for m+
strange python
sweet! is eb just icing on the cake then?
vast forum
EB is good for high aoe dungeons, high rated assa rogues have been playing without it recently in most dungeons
strange python
still run bote major?
white wyvern
yas
strange python
ty guys
wet ruin
EB is very rare nowadays, so that is another reason why you are not seeing it
vast forum
yeap, raid pieces don't have it
strange python
Drew 2 480 pieces with SS and EB from the vendor though
echo heath
475 azerokk's trinket, just fuck me up man
misty hazel
On AoE pack do I 5x FoK after BoTe or do I use on EV?
brave vector
little sandal
hey guys whats the best prepot for a fast burst for vision bosses
dawn root
Don't really need potions bosses die so fast w/ 3x ss + exang
If you're really trying to min/max I'd Lust on shaw and alleria
SS, SS, rupture, vendetta, exang, blood = GG
bosses melt
dawn root
yeah sorry 😉
icy ember
crimson palm
Coral vs 460 Gladiator's Badge on Drest'Agath?
scarlet sequoia
yeah
gusty ore
what ilevel waist is worth if i wanna replace this. cuz i have a 465 without corruption
strange python
Ilvl doesnt matter for TD
So If you don't have TD already, it's probably worth to use this in dungeons/AoE heavy stuff for you
gusty ore
ok
i gotta cleanse one of these
deadly momentum 3 or echoing void 2
both ilvls are same
vast forum
@dawn root i'd say for visions garrote-vend-garrote-rupture-exsg-bote is better, because you get an extra second of garrote duration, as well as earlier vendetta for more NP ticks
but ggr works too
gusty ore
tyty
vast forum
echoing void is probably the worst trait that "seems" good (leech, avoidance, versa and the 2 CDR things being the only worse ones)
tiny sierra
should exsang be the go to build for 5 mask visions?
if so, how should essence/stat prio change?
arctic harness
Honestly, all you need is purification protocol major and its ez clap
tiny sierra
oh word sweet im at 469 rn with t3 mind flay and 2 expedients
i hate stormwind tho its so annoying
also im working on getting razor coral.. how does it affect the rotation? should i just aim to line it up with every TB?
vast forum
pp major isn't even good
arctic harness
For horrific visions it is
vast forum
still not in top 3 options
arctic tulip
I keep getting mind flay gear...
vast forum
it just straight up loses to blood and breath and is nothing special compared to beam, since half the relevant mobs aren't even aberrations and with 6 sec silence from iron wire, you don't even need more control
unborn pendant
Mind Flay ain't the worst thing in the world at least.
arctic harness
If you pull like a granny that makes sense i guess, but i dont so
drifting cloud
Easy flex
civic palm
Hey now... some of us are grannies. 
raw rune
So it's fairly agreed upon that bote is better than Iris for m+, so shouldn't it sim higher?
I've done both DS and HAC sims and Iris pulls ahead by 2-3k in both
civic palm
The SIM isn't a 1:1 representation of every dungeon. 😐
raw rune
yeah obviously
civic palm
Well then how do you suppose the SIM would be accurate enough to present results that reflect reality?
Your best bet for finding what works best for you in dungeons is doing the research yourself and testing things out.
Your "best" options can and will change depending on gear, dungeon, and especially your group.
arctic harness
And affixes
raw rune
yeah, was just looking at some sims cause I never bothered getting r3 bote
civic palm
Fair.
Just note what those SIMs consider priorities, how they handle CDs, mob packs, timers on mob spawning, time to kill, yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada
raw rune
yeah I know, hence why I was trying multiple
civic palm
Yep, just make sure you can translate those results into something practical if you are interested enough in their results.
raw rune
Ye I mean like the 2-3k diff in a sim is obviously going to be nothing compared to the rest of the margin of error in any m+ run
civic palm
Well that's a decent amount really, depending on your DPS outcomes.
Margin of Error is pretty tiny really, but M+/Dungeon Slice for Assassination is poor last I saw.
Decent enough place to start though.
hollow escarp
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
raw rune
123k vs 125k on add cleave lol
civic palm
Hey I heard that first guy is pretty neato :3
I mean that's multiple %, the margin of error is surely much lower.
civic palm
I mean that's not a variable you can know me thinks, but I get your point.
narrow sky
any good guide on M+ ? wanted to give Sin a go but im so used to outlaw that I cant make good dips in comparison
deft owl
guys, i came back to the game 5 days ago and i didn't play since s2 M+, why is everyone Outlaw? is there something i'm missing like nerfs to assa exc?
vast forum
@arctic harness if you're pulling big in visions, bote+EB is still far superior to PP
deft owl
i'm talking about M+, im not interested in raid tbh
drifting cloud
outlaw has been better since s2
vast forum
outlaw pulled far ahead in s2 with introduction of wits
then it got nerfed 3 times but is still slightly better
deft owl
ok ok, i saw that there is no EB in raid azerite pieces, so i need to rely on rng pieces bought with titan residuum right?
harsh sphinx
sadly yes
polar cape
Rng vendor
deft owl
bullshit, ty for the quick answers btw!
scarlet sequoia
np
arctic harness
@vast forum Nice opinion buddy
vast forum
you can use whatever you want, visions are trivial at this point, but thinking PP is your best option for major as assa rogue is just wrong
arctic harness
Not saying it’s the best, just saying it makes it very easy to 5 mask. You’re the one trying to make it seem like there’s a “best choice” or some factual tier list
arctic harness
Nice opinion there bud
civic palm
2v1. facts created.
scarlet sequoia
ye
steep obsidian
vast forum
Xd
imagine making dogshit claims, being corrected, then saying "who cares, if it works for you"
civic palm
Imagine being that toxic, calm down
vast forum
i tried being nice first 🙂
civic palm
Try again.
quasi pewter
Can this channel not degrade to outlaw level please 
civic palm
🛡️
sacred yarrow
vague rock
tfw vop procs like 5 times and you are next do warlocks and mages on the meters for a while 
scarlet sequoia
polar cape
Playing vop to refeel the poison bombs day
fleet whale
do you need 3 np traits for VOP major build to be worth it
fleet whale
also what the hell is the deal with hero damage, it has VoP major ranked lower than unbound force
tepid flower
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
scarlet sequoia
you should strive to play vop major
strange python
herodamage is nothing more than a couple of sims with a specific gear set
frozen karma
vop is legit as major?
quasi pewter
for st with 3 np yes
frozen karma
what about n'zoth, or should I just go blood
subtle tundra
vop major is a way of life
fleet whale
People want to go back to Nighthold vendetta uptime with the leggo boots... just with more RNG!
frozen karma
what makes it better? which corruption/stat? other than NP
tropic ocean
mastery
outer lodge
Anyone have a weak aura for Split Personality in SW vision?
outer lodge
awesome, last week i downloaded a pack but that Split Personality wasn't working. Tyvm
tropic ocean
afaik u can only track the stun
but your screen gets purple on the sides when its coming
outer lodge
yeah having a bit of a rough time with that on specifically, i'm color blind
strange python
arent there colorblind settings
true nexus
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qsEHqSjhg1q1aG5173iZcq would yall go for this NP
but drop to 2x double dose
scarlet sequoia
well it does in fact say its a 1k dps increase
so i do reckon if you speculate it a moment that it is better
arctic walrus
Very peculiar observation Raz, although I would say I concur based on the circumstances however
cobalt pelican
it's only ~178 but yeah there's no reason to actually want double dose, it's a gross trait with uptime requirements so if something is simming better than it you grab it with both hands
i'd check on 5 mins though, 4 min sims with time length variance mean some pulls are perfect 3vend length and some are really shit, it's prolly about the same gain though
true nexus
im checkin a few changes
forgot i got a banger mechagon ring that might change these sims
vast forum
tbh 5min sims with variance are 2-3 vendettas too
cobalt pelican
way less frequently, though
standard is 0.2, so the very shortest iteration should be 4 mins
true nexus
whats the average fight length this tier tho
or is that not an important thing
like if all fights are 3 min
is simming 5 min superfluous
looks like when all's said and done the extra double dose is -132 https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qw7C69Qrko4ZbCfV4U7HpU
magic fossil
guys, something change in raidbots? i just got a -4k simc with out any change...
true nexus
wait why didnt it go to 5min
cobalt pelican
no changes that should cause a 4k loss, you likely just fucked something up
true nexus
maybe you turned lust off
okay 5 min is same sim as 4min dps wiser
but its even closer actually
so i guess not the same
-75 dps with 41 margin
magic fossil
guys, this is driving me nuts, SAME equips
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/no5GpQRuu177TkNGkPscHG / https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/g9ExNwbzLKKxpXraTrqf2Z
look at this please, someone help me
vague rock
@frozen karma yeah vop major will just give you more potential for big damage
more pulls where you are doing low and high dps compared to bote or whatever which will be more consistent each pull
vague rock
so the average works out the same but
harsh sphinx
unless u have 25 corruption
vague rock
can hit much higher numbers with good rng
strange python
how do people not know that
do u guys read tooltips
like legit some questions here is answered by reading
harsh sphinx
echo cargo
😂
magic fossil
really sorry bois
harsh sphinx
reading comprehension is good. trust 🙂 i've failed much harder than that from not fully reading a tooltip
magic fossil
thank you rav, thank you very much
scarlet sequoia
np
scarlet sequoia
yes
lean marten
yeet
cobalt pelican
buestionable
distant lava
bery buestionable bindeed
harsh sphinx
we back in uldir now?
true nexus
i wouldnt socket a galecallers
timid cloud
Any suggestions on how I could squeeze out more, I feel as if I'm just a bit lower than I should be, any & all help would be much appreciated.
cobalt pelican
you're wearing like
quasi pewter
subterfuge could be an upgrade
cobalt pelican
weird gear for what you have lol
you have expedient socket wrists and not wearing
not using extravagant epals even though they're like
3rd best
timid cloud
I was just going off what top gear had me sim at, I tried all the variations.
I was really surprised about the exp not simming higher
I'll try again though.
faint harness
Why do you have like 20 rings
true nexus
you need to disenchant half of your shit
or put it in the bank lol
farm up some mechagon rings probablyu
faint harness
he has mechagon rings already
true nexus
wait really
timid cloud
Yeah, was cleaning out today & wanted to get more out of the sim.
faint harness
the dmg proc
faint harness
not haste
true nexus
my 415 socket from last tier still outsims everything
timid cloud
Yeah, it has IS2 with back attack & damage.
true nexus
haste rin
cobalt pelican
things i'd recommend putting in the sim are like
mechagon shoulders, both expedient pieces, a cleansed version of your mh
and then just
faint harness
he has 3 expedient pieces
cobalt pelican
any amount of random junk you can fit in and fitler through it a few times
faint harness
if you count the 445 boots
true nexus
cleanse the void ritual MH so you dont have to do extra combinations
i dont think you ever run void ritual
on mh
so sims go faster lol
faint harness
could run t6 expedient
true nexus
also put on iron wire what is wrong with you
timid cloud
Was for WPVP Lol. Otherwise I'd wear POTW or IW in keys.
cobalt pelican
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ttmhAXbf8rfLGntzuvbipy smth like this is a good start, you'd definitely need to filter throug your gear 2-3 more times before you get to an end point though, i can't fit it all in 1 go
like there's a lot of things i just straight up can't f it that i know will be good like a cleansed offhand, and some other pieces of gear (rings, etc)
cobalt pelican
and this is with no enchants/gems/essences
true nexus
yeah nameless did better
youre also late on 6 corruption resist
which could be big for certain combinations
timid cloud
Subter but no SS's?
cobalt pelican
when you add the filtered offhand and a bunch of rings it's super likely the expedient wrists find a home in a nice corruption set
yes, it's normal
crimson palm
For those who killed drest'agath, how much dps should botd be doing? I can't get a decent log on overall 😑
distant lava
it depends on what you're assigned to do
harsh sphinx
all dmg to the boss without the buff doesn't count in logs at least. but i wouldn't worry about parsing drest tbh
distant lava
a rogue that has vendettas assigned to tentacles with debuff will always slap you for example
distant lava
idk doing your burst on a target that takes 60% increase dmg seems pretty big to me
cobalt pelican
just keep using these as bases, add a few pieces and see what's up
timid cloud
I'm running another one right now, I'll check in later for more updates.
harsh sphinx
ya like.. they had me hold vend till after first tentacle was dead. something like 60 seconds. if your not getting sweet orbs lined up with your CD's just not gonna happen
crimson palm
Ye I guess we killed him pretty late and most guilds are on farm
timid cloud
Thank you.
crimson palm
I'm getting an orb for each cd
faint harness
@timid cloud the mechagon ring combo seems to be a dps upgrade too
I added all your expedient gear and mechagon rings and it went to like 80600 dps
Couldnt change more
cobalt pelican
supercomputers at home when
timid cloud
🙏
drifting cosmos
Hey guys, do you need to finish a 5 masks run to be able to that extra 3 corruption resis quest?
scarlet sequoia
no
drifting cosmos
I got my cloak to 15 and don't know where to take the quest
scarlet sequoia
at wrathion
harsh sphinx
drifting cosmos
Is there a quest for it? Or you just complete it and it's given to you
timid cloud
You just do it.
frosty burrow
you loot the item
echo heath
at what point are people switching from focusing iris minor to perfection? iris minor still sims higher than perfection but i see a lot of parses with that or conflict
drifting cloud
it sims higher for probably everyone on st, you dont run it because of target swapping
when conflict is not worse by alot
and vop is fight dependant
slate osprey
is madness: haunting shadows supposed to knock you out of stealth by spawning? or is this a known bug?
echo heath
yeah they're all within 200 dps on sim, but @drifting cloud you're saying because of the stack drop off on target switching fights it would be better to run vision there?
@slate osprey everything has been knocking me out of stealth since burning crusade
honest vessel
on some fights vision makes vendetta line up better, like on wrathion
if you have to swap targets a lot you swap to conflict
more realistic uptime
echo heath
that makes sense to me, thanks for your input
west cove
how vop makes it line up better in wrathi?
honest vessel
second vendetta gets cut off by his fly away ability
but with vop you can get all of both vendettas in p1
west cove
gotcha ty
balmy dome
When using BOTE w/ vop minor (and master assassin), how do you use your 2nd vendetta? Just don't use stealth with it?
cobalt pelican
yes
balmy dome
do you save vanish for the 3rd vendetta?
quasi pewter
no
cobalt pelican
oh, ok
quasi pewter
🙂
magic pasture
if we're supposed to go haste crit why does mastery sim a lot higher for me?
honest vessel
because your specific gear is different from everyone elses
what you're 'supposed' to do is incredibly rudimentary
always listen to top gear sims
our stats are very close right now, based on corruptions and azerite and essences and talents and trinkets, your stats can swap super fast
magic pasture
am i doing the right thing by simming 1 boss for 5min for raids?
honest vessel
thats how most people do it
gotta use ur brain tho, since most fights deviate from a patchwerk 5 min fight
so sometimes different gear is better
but you gotta make that call
that sim is pretty good for a base set
magic pasture
tyvm ive been doing really bad in dps and its really been getting me down
celest sail
dungeon slice still trash for muti?
drifting cloud
yeah
celest sail
rip
cobalt pelican
it's just kinda weird in general, even the first global of dungeon slice happens before the boss spawns in so you don't even get 2 empowered garrotes on the boss
then you have hot memes like this
in a 3 ad pack
some of it happens just because the packs spawn so tightly together you don't even have energy to do anything, and some of it is just.. idk
celest sail
isnt that kind of up to the apl tho? outlaw uses dungeon slice, right?
cobalt pelican
outlaw is just a more flexible spec
if your first gcd hits the wrong target nobody actually cares
for us it's kinda important, as well as the restealth working properly
celest sail
ah
cobalt pelican
the apl for rogues is in general very good but this spec is way too like rigid to make it work properly in a dynamic fightstyle
like even taking 1 sample iteration from dslice, the first garrote on the boss is broken because of the way the mobs spawn in so you only get an 18 sec garrote instead of 23.4 or whatever, there's no restealth between pack2 and pack3 - or pack5 and pack6, vendetta is shot on a mob 1 gcd before it dies and completely lost and blood usage does not resemble anything that would be done by a real player in a real dungeon
and all those things can have pretty significant impacts on gear choices
drifting cloud
sounds like how I play tbh
stoic token
rancid bobcat
switching to assassination for nzoth, not sure how to go about placing coral though
i'm going down in 1st psychus so i guess coral him then once he dies i'll have the buff for nzoth?
cobalt pelican
usage prep2 is kinda just ffa i think
i usually use on synapse 1 synapse 3 and then put it on psychus
but idk if good or not
faint harness
I used it on nzoth personally, and kept making sure a dot was rolling to stack it
Consumed on vuln phases
But i also didnt do any psychus
cobalt pelican
it might still be worth it tbh, getting like 2 stacks on a basher and then walking around with a crit buff doing nothing doesn't seem hot
and i don't ever get enough stacks from psychus to be considered worth, especially since i don't really even have a rupture on him to begin with
faint harness
I had plenty of p1 pulls to try different coral usages
And ye, the idea of keeping the buff rolling on tenties is sweet
But in reality 80% is spent running
cobalt pelican
i'm kinda just sticking to it assuming it can't be bad later on
but it's pretty awful atm
since we're only early into p2
rancid bobcat
it's just that coral/vita is the current top for parses
rancid bobcat
which seems kinda wack
faint harness
Well
cobalt pelican
yeah, but there's like what
6 minutes after the psychus shenanigans it actually works properly
faint harness
I usually got about 5-8 stacks easily for vuln phases in p1 simply slapping it on nzoth
Tentacle dmg is whatever after a while
cobalt pelican
i'll prolly try it, it can't be worse for nzoth damage
still feels kinda shit though
like playing half of a trinket
faint harness
My dmg reaaaallly felt irrelevant until P2, most boring shit ive progged
Nzoth dmg is all that matters
cobalt pelican
is your hpal popping wings for dps or something
cause there's like nothing to heal actually
drifting cloud
probably
and Im the first one to stop if its dying to fast
my average psychus dmg is prolly like 7mil
cobalt pelican
idk what's even going on with our psychus tbh
drifting cloud
if even that much
faint harness
I was originally put in psychus 2, but in early prog it seemed impossible for me due to dmg taken and movement so i got swapped off any psychus. Left me with what, 200 p1 pulls
cobalt pelican
we still use crusade meta and combust on the 1st
cobalt pelican
i don't think anyone besides dh can survive contempt tbh in melee
unless your healers are gamer gods
cobalt pelican
did you use ranged in psych1 or something
cobalt pelican
tbh our guild roster is so weird
faint harness
And 2 bm hunters
cobalt pelican
everything just ends up weird
drifting cloud
yeah well go play a useful class mr. officer
cobalt pelican
i wish
i had the determination to gear a mage
real quick
but honestly cbdghfbagdhfad
it's sasd that i think if i played am age for 2 wks
by real kill pulls
i'd be more useful on a fresh dinged mage
faint harness
They need to nerf the immunity requirement
drifting cloud
its not that insane
faint harness
So shit for guilds with limited rosters
faint harness
Ye but then healing becomes giga sketchy
cobalt pelican
they're at such shitty times though
after the 1st
idk
like one is preparanoia
faint harness
If you dont immune 2nd you get 5 more evokes
cobalt pelican
i doubt you can group soak that shit
and one yea
you get bonus evokes
well
we do anyway
because apparently dh immune is like
fake
thanks blizzaqrd
cobalt pelican
like the 1sec immunity?
faint harness
Animation immunity
cobalt pelican
hmm
faint harness
Nw makes them go insane anyway
drifting cloud
yeah
faint harness
So its a waste
cobalt pelican
we have a lot of shit that's just weird rn cause our psychus2 group is so fucked we have like
an extra dps down there
and are super over committing cds
so i don't even think our dh has meta there
drifting cloud
with vop he should
drifting cloud
or wait maybe that 3rd one
faint harness
If he metas instantly he should have it for 2nd immunity
Thats what we do
If he's in psychus 2
faint harness
Only have 1 dh
cobalt pelican
if you don't have 8 dhs are you really living??/
faint harness
Well the other one is vengeance
Best tanking spec in the world
Like we had to sack an ele sham on 3rd immunity, despite having a decent number of immunities, strongly believe they should nerf it
Make it 4 or something
drifting cloud
yeah I guess 10 is alot if you have 1 dh and not 4 mages
unless you have like 2 hpalas and a ret
cobalt pelican
we have barely 10 and that's 2dh2rogue3paladin2mage1hunter
faint harness
2 rogues, 2 bms, 3 mages, 1 holy
cobalt pelican
and 10 aren't in the actual roster half of the time
so we end up forcing paladins to spec 3.5min bubble
and just
throwing me under the bus
:)
luckily we're not getting that far that consistently yet so i don't have to sudoku myself
faint harness
You need moore mages
halcyon bloom
Hey, how ill advised is it to play with higher than 40 corruption in raid?
thinking If I blind and cloak all the tfb might be fine
drifting cloud
depends on the boss
tiny sierra
for some reason VoP major is simming higher than BoTE, should i aim to actually use this? Or is it unrealistic within actual boss fights
i got 3 NP traits
vague rock
eh you could make an argument that it's not very good for progression. It relies a lot on rng and you won't have cooldowns for meeting certain damage checkpoints every pull
rigid mango
I mean I think it's fine for the most part
Just comes down to fights
Nzoth for example, you have a lot of potential to proc it on say, neurons or a 99% dmg decrease nzoth
Where it's potentially dog
Meanwhile vexiona you will proc it consistantly on good stuff
vague rock
i procced it on a MC'd player in ilygnoth lol
tiny sierra
word ill just stick with BoTE then
vague rock
with bote your vendettas will be more impactful, depends if you need that or not
tiny sierra
can yall lmk if im missing any big pieces of gear in my bags that i could be checking in sims
im struggling rn i have so much gear and i feel like i can do so much better
tiny sierra
working on coral
and yeah ik i got em randomly
and they sim higher than nzoth shoulders or any others with DD or any other good trait
subtle tundra
i doubt that
trim raptor
What do you sim at patchwerk 5 mins?
tiny sierra
lemme check
winter gale
Morning guys. I saw on akot of rogues that best corruption for Cara progress is TA. Should I equipp 2 of those, one 35 and one 66 corruption or just that 66 one with one gushing wound?
If anyone with better knowledge could help me
subtle tundra
why are you simming 7 min bruh
tiny sierra
because thats what a lot of my fights have been at in terms of length my groups damage blows
is that wrong?
winter gale
5 mins i guess is how u should do it to compare easier with other players
trim raptor
You simmed your trash shoulders lol
tiny sierra
but how does that change the values that the top gear came up with
thats why im confused
trim raptor
Your dps with those shoulders probably do more dps in a 7 minute fight
subtle tundra
its because you only selected the 2 main traits @tiny sierra
subtle tundra
didnt put the minor one and + 5 ilvl
tiny sierra
sorry for wasting your time jesus
winter gale
Can anyone tell me what path is best for 5 masking Stormwind?
fathom wyvern
whats bis setup for assa in keys trait wise?
pseudo hamlet
@winter gale check out this guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4UJUax3tUQ
winter gale
Ty, ty!
pseudo hamlet
@fathom wyvern not sure, but overall for everything? Probably 3xSS, 2xEB 1xTTK
edgy pawn
Do you people feel like there is a point in m+ when you have "enough" crit?
Im at 40 percent right now and considering getting some mastery/versa instead of mastery/crit
faint harness
Bit of feelycrafting to it
tropic ocean
@edgy pawn stat weights 🙂
tropic ocean
well theres one accurate answer which is stat weights no matter if you have it or not
winter gale
Ineffable truth as assa ST filler for corruption?
tropic ocean
not good
winter gale
I am at 24 corruption and only one in range to not going over 39 is ineffable but its not good I feel
Y
tropic ocean
personally would just not use it and stay at lower corruption
winter gale
Desyncing cds
Thats what I thought anyways
But I barely do anything wo asking here before 😄
scenic marlin
tropic ocean
😄