just a thought, lots of outlaw in the top 100
#assassination
strange python
Idk If I would discard breath executes as worthless?
Logs don't count overkill damage, so it's real damage that needed to be dealt. You can make the argument that the target would've died to dots anyways, but a 250k Crit kinda speeds up the process tremendously. Would be a damn while until dots Tick that down
And then not all breath damage is executes, you obviously also have the above 80 hit
next solar
exactly
strange python
Just because you said to take breath logs with a grain of Salt. It's a very small grain, If at all.
proud salmon
whats a good cleave opener as assass with double dose traits
for a fight like vex
and MA
tribal marlin
no need to cleave, padder of your guild will cleave for you
so just play the boss damage
drifting cosmos
š¤ DD and cleave don't go together I think
glossy heath
fairly new to wow been playing outlaw for M+ but looking to try to play a little sin for raids. Any reason why my sim is only like 2k more in single target compared to outlaw or is that normal? I understand my outlaw gear is probably better but wasn't sure if I'm doing something wrong somewhere. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ayM7HCguYxxWUTqDAHGPpE
fallow otter
@glossy heath can you link a topgear sim? Or send me a pastebin of your /simc and I'll finetune your gear for you, if you like
glossy heath
that would be great 1 sec ill send that to you
i did a few top gear sims but not being a patron it takes a bit of time
rancid bobcat
Anyone here use TrufiGCD? Trying to figure out how I can stop Rupture from appearing 4 times in a row
bronze kelp
nope
slow mountain
do tendies proc more the more haste you have
inland escarp
no
slow mountain
stars does tho right
inland escarp
afaik yes
minor garden
@rigid mango what would you use to get that insane opening burst?
bleak spoke
Opener burst is literally if you crit or not, and if you get corruption procs
@proud salmon garrote muti rupture the add on vexi and then muti muti rupture garrote vendetta on boss then single target stuff and after you dot refresh on vex after tb put another rupture on the big add, make sure youāre poisoning it too or you donāt get the energy regen
Even though envenom on a vendetta target is theoretically better than that rupture itās actually free the e regen gives you all the envenoms you would have gotten anyway
crisp hollow
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pb9bHXpsZnzeVoZvKZqozz takes me 135 corruption to pass 90k patchwerk lmao, actual raiding setup is only 83k
what are high end rogue sims rn? any of us cracking 100k reasonably?
shy dust
I think Raz is at 85k
With no IS
No rogue will be anywhere near 100k
Unless they are wearing an insane amount of corruption with infinite stars
small island
meanwhile hunters and warrior hit 100k with below 40 corruption xd
echo cargo
praying for mid-tier buffs
crisp hollow
not really, moreso Fury Warr and havoc dh are just better in every way
but having an immune means you get to be in on nzoth prog over both so silver linings
echo cargo
It's certainly viable for boss damage, but like Scoville said
Arms + Fury + DH are more "desirable"
also easier to get corruptions for* imo
harsh gate
Is there a possibility to sim corruption effects other than gear compare? Would like to know which corruptions are most fitting for nzoth.
fast nacelle
@harsh gate the one and only darsal?
tropic ocean
top gear if you own them
harsh gate
Ayyyy yooo @fast nacelle
vital haven
@crisp hollow should change your shard to mh
bleak spoke
Itās kinda strange that we sim 20k lower but we still perform around the same in raid though
But that probably has a lot to do with the fact that most of our damage comes in windows and if bosses canāt be hit for any amount of time itās an automatic advantage
cobalt gyro
only warrior spec hitting 100k <40 is arms with all haste +IT
and they scale kinda dumb
but they're also made of paper
bleak spoke
There are fights their dps profile is more insane than ours though
Like execute on ilg is real dumb
cobalt gyro
yeah i mean getting to execute the boss 3x is kinda dumb
but you need healers to babysit you
crimson palm
6x inc organs
wide delta
will all essecnes be available next week or only the faction ones?
text seems confusing to me
"While ordinarily each specific Essence must be learned in order to unlock it for other characters via MOTHER, all Essences associated with Nazjatar and Mechagon reputations will be available if any other different character has earned any of the Essences available from that reputation."
strange python
our š® is currently not working either
cobalt gyro
Pretty sure it's all and that wording is specifically because those ones are rep
wide delta
lol such confusing text
chilly granite
It basically means that even if your main is dps only , and therefore only has the ability to unlock rank 3 of the dps essence, you can still get the tank and/or healer essence on alts with the currency they're implementing.
outer lotus
I thought it meant as long as you unlocked rank 1 of the rep essences on any character you can buy rank 3
faint harness
You have to farm a currency for the R3s
and we have 0 details on how much currency it is
but if they follow Legion formula its one R3 per week
haughty zodiac
they said only nazjatar and mechagon reputations tho
what about uldum/rajani reputation essences
outer lotus
Well thats still current content so they still expect you to farm rep for that on atleast 1 charavter i guess
kind geyser
Or it is better to use toxic blade asap
strange python
use TB
foggy sphinx
It isnāt clear if you are gonna be able to farm currency for all rank 3 available essences or only mech/Nazjatar
What about bote for example?
Bote and C&S are the worst for non pvpers
crimson palm
It is pretty clear
It says you get rank 1 for mech nazjatar
And you have to unlock rank 1 for the rest
chilly granite
Seems you'll be able to farm towards all rank 3 essences earned on your main. They just mention Mechagon and Nazjatar specifically cause there's healer, dps and tank essences that can be earned there, and your main might not have the ability to get one of those essences simply cause you lack the spec to do so. So they're making an exception to the rule there.
foggy sphinx
The same happens with bote and itās tank essence
But I think we should wait for news
And see how it works
viscid hill
Generally speaking, which traits, essences and stats are okto raid? I was using a build with 3xDD, 1xNP, 1xHoD with MA, but my dps wasn't cool, I don't have BoTE rank3, I was using BoTD, Iris r3, Lucid r4 and the one that increases the critical chance. The fight was starting like this:
Stealth> Mutilate> Rupture> Mutilate> Vendetta> TB> Evenon> Garrote> Mutilate> Evenon> BoTD, then kept the Dots and continued with Mutilate until 4cp and then evenon. Waited for the vendetta to leave the CD to use vanish and repeat the opener.
My DPS never exceeds 45k (I'm still exaggerating I think), only when using Hero.
speaking as a "pure" single target boss, like Shad, Maut....
Gyno
crimson palm
Logs bruh
viscid hill
i'll provide
cobalt pelican
even from the outline you've posted there's some questionable stuff
why are you not applying garrote until you've pressed toxic blade?
why would you delay vanish till vendetta has ended?
viscid hill
well, i dont have any logs playing with that build
shouldnt use vanish with vendetta?
upper wedge
you should always use it with vendetta
viscid hill
but take a look with another build: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8GHdB3PbZV7pfycw#fight=1&type=damage-done
satit my char
is the name...
strange python
did you know you can look other peoples logs up and see how they play
viscid hill
i'll check it out, im new to raiding, to this world of logs kek, i used only to do pvp, m+
strange python
just take MA and do the normal rotation on hc instead of taking subt, it's easier and you'll never lose a vanish cast like you did that pull
though idk why you lost a vanish there in a 3.35 fight
viscid hill
maybe im noob
strange python
viscid hill
need to practice more
strange python
take this guy for example
viscid hill
ah, i dont have the coral trinket, my trinkets i'm using is that one from alchemy and the bike one (raidbots said they're the best ones i have)
strange python
you can also do a "quick sim" on raidbots and scroll down the page to see how simc plays
scarlet sequoia
np
bleak spoke
@viscid hill definitely put garrote on before you vendetta
Generally you open muti rupture muti only if you get 4 cp on the first muti if you get 3 you go muti garrote rupture if you get two you muti muti rupture
But in any case muti rupture muti garrote vendetta tb even if you have 5 cp is accurate
The less Tb globals you waste using bleeds the better
outer lotus
whats the correct opener with subterfuge and no SS traits? garrote > muti to 5 > rupture > vend > tox > bote?
primal turret
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZjPpxc847LbCVD6h#fight=19&type=casts&source=4&view=timeline
@strange python good example of how good infinite stars is for ranking
bleak spoke
Garrote muti garrote rupture vaugh
Then you muti to 3+ cp before you vendetta because youāll have all of empowered garrote in v
outer lotus
oh i was told you only use one garrote even with subterfuge
strange python
i just linked the first log without shit opener
outer lotus
and then i just vanish garrote during pandemic towards the end of vendetta right?
bleak spoke
No donāt pandemic empowered garrote with vanish
You want max uptime on it
So wait till it falls off to vanish garrote again preferably at 4 cp so you can garrote rupture garrote
cobalt pelican
with no shrouded you can safely vanish inside pandemic on the first one which normally happens just after tb falls off
outer lotus
yea thats what i was doing
cobalt pelican
cause it's not applied at full duration in the opener anyway
so it rolls forward the full value
outer lotus
do i use the 2nd vendetta only after vanish is ready again or is it fine to vanish + garrote in the middle of vendetta?
cuz vanish is like 15 secs behind vendetta always
cobalt pelican
it's fine to do it in the middle, delaying ends up a bit weird
bleak spoke
you hold v for vanish
cobalt pelican
cause a tb comes up just a bit before hand
so any sim change to delay
just makes tb not inside vend
primal turret
i just linked the first log without shit opener
@strange python not blaming just a joke, im so tilted with is
bleak spoke
you gotta make sure your tb is in vendetta though
cobalt pelican
either is fine honestly, i'd recommend holding since
bleak spoke
that's all your damage regardless
strange python
@strange python not blaming just a joke, im so tilted with is
@primal turret can you stop quoting me wtf
cobalt pelican
it's not unusual to have the ~3 sec window in the sim be cut off by like
misplay or mechanic
and realistically in most cases delaying tb 1 gcd isn't going to fuck you in a single instance at fight end so i think it's just more natural to hold it to the 2:10-2:12 tb and use everything there
bleak spoke
keep in mind in any fight you can delay tb up to 13 seconds without losing one
i wonder if worldvein's the play with subterfuge
because like, lose ~10 seconds per wv usage
cuz of tb line ups
cobalt pelican
subt with no shrouded is just kinda odd in general, like if you choose to apply 2 in the opener for a full pandemic (not currently done), your vanish gets pushed to like ~2:20 which is miles away from any tb
if you apply 1 and pandemic it you can move your vanish forward a loooot
bleak spoke
using tb at the start of V isn't always super necessary though
bleak spoke
like as long as you get a full tb before vendetta is over it's not bad
cobalt pelican
the 2:10 one can't really be held for 10 seconds, the 2:35 one is late enough that you wouldn't get it all inside vend and bote would be fugged
bleak spoke
like you get a tb at 50 seconds right
cobalt pelican
i think the current apl is just the best of a bunch of bad situations
bleak spoke
and then you hold wv until 9 seconds before TB
cobalt pelican
but koji said he'd relook at it so maybe it'll get changed to double garrote opener idk
yeah for sure
bleak spoke
so you end up with wv up at like 2:15 or something
and it's awful
so you just wait
for the next tb anyway
so you might as well play subterfuge right
because you end up with the same timers anyway
cobalt pelican
stuff like that will just rarely get added to sim likely cause it will almost always show as a loss with varying fight length on, and i doubt any changes at fixed time will be added
even for real world use it gets a bit weird
cause even if you can accurately predict kill length for room to move stuff around
idk about everyone but at least in my guild it's not uncommon to end up 18 manning bosses so
then everything just gets thrown out of the window and planning stuff like that just ends up biting you at the end real bad
noble ocean
What essences do you guys run for m+?
cobalt pelican
bote lucid breath strife/vop is the standard goto
noble ocean
Guess I could change bote for iris since I don't have it. Didint play my rogue since s2
cobalt pelican
either that or play breath major but yeah any of those 3 kinda work
noble ocean
Ofc I don't have breath as wellš
cobalt pelican
you get rank 2 pretty quickly but i guess that's fair
i guess just play iris/strife/vop/lucid if you have those, and if not play like.. iris/vop/lucid/formless maybe??
or UNBOUND FORCE but i doubt anyone has that
woeful minnow
r2 breath is still 3 weeks
strange python
what?
or well yeah I suppose, but that sounds a lot longer than 2 resets
which could be 7-8 days
woeful minnow
it's 3 first of the week lesser visions
so technically 3 weeks
unless you happen to start on a monday night
mystic crest
what traits are the best to put into gibbering maw helmet?
subtle tundra
the ones that sim best buddy
solar fable
I need an opinion from you fine folk, I have a 460 vita shard, 460 spyglass, and 475 plummage, sim shows that the plumage plus either trinket is equal dps for dungeons, what would you recommend personally
still totem
I prefer Spyglass
solar fable
It basically comes down to more boss or
more trash damage right
white wyvern
Vita buffs your party members too though which isn't going to be part of a sim.
young portal
Spy glass, Vita is a haste proc trinket and haste is your worst stat in m+
strange python
Sim the pins bruh
vagrant tapir
We dont swap to orbs on ra-den right?
It just seems like a massive loss for such a small gain
were so bad at short duration priority swaps
cobalt pelican
depends on your raid really
not like damage loss is relevant since there's no ads up at that point and pushing 40% is very easy
so if the orbs aren't dying in reasonable time, and you're not first in one of the assignment groups, there's not really any reason to not swap tbh
it will impact your personal dps for sure though so if that's what you care about just stick to the boss
royal lantern
tell your rl that you want too stick on the boss on pull cus of how vendetta works(not a flexible cd like meta/wings)
after that its really more or less a raid thing
cobalt pelican
oh yeah to caveat i don't think anyone ever hits the void/first one from melee
i guess i shoulda mentioned that
everyone has cds up so it should just die to wizard shit
honest vessel
wizard shit :)
untold current
running vision with 3ss, 2np makes such a huge difference lol
and I dont even have a 3rd np
tropic ocean
@vagrant tapir heavily depends on comp
in early pulls we swapped to it cuz we had 7 or 8 melees
with less melees there shouldn't be a need to swap to them, but then again, depends on your raid setup
glacial steppe
eh, why does subterfuge sims higher for me than MA, i dont have SS either
rigid mango
Because it's better
glacial steppe
but, isnt MA the to go with ST build? kinda confused tbh
rigid mango
yeah but subt scales better
glacial steppe
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nGRuxoUBo5YqYtyQK5Eq5 so this accurate and not a bug or something
glacial steppe
and does it even makes sense to play, or is just a "sim better" thingy
glacial steppe
but we still dont want SS i guess?
glacial steppe
hm, aight, gonna give it a shot next reclear i guess
drifting cloud
yeah its just for me for example its not 500 but like 150
so I still just prefer MA on most bosses
at 500 Id use it everywhere I guess
glacial steppe
whats the opener then? the first one on ravenholdt? (no ss for tb)
glacial steppe
wonder if its good for dresta
glacial steppe
hmm, tripple SS+NP for dresta?
tropic ocean
but I guess it depends on your azerite a lot
e.g. having access to mythic carapace chest for example
rigid mango
Just go standard build
As much as boss damage is good you really just need to kill adds
That's all the fight is
proud salmon
what pre pot are you guys usig
i see some use unbridled vs focused
cant find a way to sim how big a differnce one vs the other is
tropic ocean
sim 1 with unbridled sim 1 with focused
focused is higher burst than unbridled so might be better in fights where u need burst in your cd window
proud salmon
how do you sim the pot ?
glacial steppe
proud salmon
honest vessel
it outsims focused resolve for me anyway
jaunty crystal
subt simming higher for me too. Without SS do we bother lining up vanish with our second vendetta? I'd guess no...
lean marten
typically u want to stack as many dps modifiers as possible, subt gives u 80% dmg on stealth garrotes, meaning that + vendetta is prolly ideal
honest vessel
sims dont hold
they just use on cd
garrote once in opener
2nd garrote @ 5 seconds remaining
spend your first vanish 2 seconds earlier and use the garrote on the last global of subt
go from there
jaunty crystal
that's what I expected tbh. And yes I do check the sim I just don't have access to it right now (on phone).
outer lodge
As Asass in M+, What's the best rotation on aoe adds with BoTE Major? Pop it and fan to 5 and env?
royal lantern
garrote 3x cus of subterfuge/ss, then CT, fok til 4-5cp->rupture1 enemy, then you use Blood and start the fok spam
outer lodge
perfect thx
civic hatch
have a stygian guise and double dose only sims 193 dps more than heart of darkness, reckon its worth just taking heart of darkness for more versatility in cleave/aoe/m+ scenerio?
silent delta
Which fight style would one sim for the Nzoth fight?
drifting cloud
its pure st fight for rogue
outside of few times where you can rupture basher+eyes
and the adds in last phase
silent delta
But would it be heavy movement? And would you sim for about 8-10 minutes?
woven pine
Donāt try to be too specific
flat wadi
whats the best trait setup for general m+?
ripe geyser
Which Azerite pieces is considered best right now? Seeing a lot of people running Engi head -> Gorak Tul's Mantle and Darkheart Robe. But also seeing a lot of people going for DD x3 and HoD x3. Is N'zoth shoulders just "harder" to get than Gorak and that being the reason?
drifting cloud
raden helm, goraks and vex chest
with nzoth mythic shoulders being super slightly better than goraks afaik
and carapace chest sims identically as vex chest kinda
ripe geyser
@drifting cloud Alright thanks, and Im pretty sure this is for ST setup. How is it looking for m+
SS x3 and Echoing Blades x3?
drifting cloud
EB is in a weird spot atm
its good but people dont really run x3 all the time
3x ss is a must then people do alot of things depending on their setup, affixes, key lvl
from np, hod, eb even ttk
ripe geyser
Cheers, thx a lot
storm perch
How to skip pack before rexxar?
rancid bobcat
cant
unless you save vanish and run deep into the room
but then you have to come out of the room anyway
crimson palm
There's apparently a roof skip
rancid bobcat
drifting cloud
yeah you can run around to rexxar behind the wall
crimson palm
From the left side?
drifting cloud
yeah left when you enter the zone
never did it myself tho, wasnt ever needed
but you can skip everything in the zone except misha like that
loud light
that pack does sit right on top of the return totem though
rancid bobcat
that too
ember rover
QUick question, does using double Carapace dagger make tentacles spawn twice more likely, or?
arctic walrus
no more damage
pliant charm
Hello Roguers! So I'm kinda new to the PVE. I play mostly PVP. So I have a really big problem with my Assa rogue. I dont do any dmg in Single target, but I do "OK" dmg in AOE. Is there ANYONE who have the time to help and try to explain to me how I can continue. I Really would appreciate it! Kindly regards / rooa
rigid mango
I'd recommend reading the guides and the stuff you feel is applicable to you in the pins
If you feel like you have mastered whatever they say, go into the raid log a boss and send it in here if you have direct inquiries about your rotational flaws.
rigid mango
Preferably not, my audio setup's scuffed atm and I cba setting it up
My DM's are always open though.
pliant charm
ill dm u
hidden bay
Also feel free to post logs here, thereās enough peoplen who like to help 
sand moth
Yo, I'm sure this has been asked but does anyone know is Nothing Personal is worth stacking? I've heard a lot of conflicting stuff.
honest vessel
it is if you dont have better, but usually just the one is good
unless kill timers are incredibly short
like in visions
sand moth
Got two right now, but no Twist the Knife's. Think one NP out for a TtK is better for raiding?
rigid mango
Whatever sims best my dude
NP isn't bad to stack but after the first other options might be better
honest vessel
^
sand moth
thnx boys
honest vessel
zine are you ever not here
short quarry
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
rigid mango
I sleep very little and I have 3 screens fam
drifting cloud
its 2:50 thats peak zine time
rigid mango
Downtime for me is between 7-11 AM when I go radio silent unless pinged
acoustic latch
So I am new to assassination, and I don't know what to do with the traits I have. I have two Double Doses, two Nothing Personals, and 2 Shrouded Suffocations. I have looked at logs, and people in my guild give conflicting reviews, which should I go with?
rigid mango
I don't know what either of them are saying
So dunno which one is correct
Probably guides, but depnds on which ones you've been reading š
acoustic latch
Logs are saying DD and NP, but my guildies are saying SS and NP. Idk which ones I should really be looking at.
rigid mango
Logs in that case
acoustic latch
alright, well how many should I stack?
rigid mango
But SS isn't horrible, just middle of the pack
W/e sims tell you to, is the simplest way to put it
There's a lot of traits that are good and comparable to DD, and also the 2nd trait (also 3rd trait) and ilvl all matter on the individual piece
So without giving you information that might actually lead to a dps downgrade, sim yourself to find out what is actually true.
acoustic latch
alright thank you
So I looked at a sim and my average dps 51k with my currently equipped. I'm looking at other pieces that I have in my bag now.
rigid mango
Feel free to link it and I can take a peak
acoustic latch
do i just copy the url?
rigid mango
yessir
acoustic latch
rigid mango
Assuming it's on raidbots
acoustic latch
alright thank you so much
rigid mango
Without mucking about too much
So your helm here, is quite bad, and kinda forces you into using SS
Same for your chest pieces really
acoustic latch
alright. I'll look into doing that.
acoustic latch
ok, another question, so I've been looking at guides and other things on icy veins and wowhead, along with youtube and stream watching to figure it out. What is the opener and rotation really? When should I use my trinkets? Vendetta?
rigid mango
acoustic latch
what is CLF?
rigid mango
Condensed life force
acoustic latch
ooh
rigid mango
was the main one of last tier, not really used this tier.
This is the opener with master assassin
The subterfuge + shrouded suffocation opener is in the guide
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
next arch
Does it make a huge difference spacing out my envenom buff uptime.
like should i space out the next envenom to keep the buff up as long as possible aslong as im not overcapping energy.
rigid mango
No, aslong as your mutilites are within the window when you're using DD (which they are 90% of the time without you needing to think about it) it's fine
next arch
Should i bother with DD is im not running 3?
rigid mango
The scenario where it gets iffy is around low energy situations where you need to reapply bleeds too
Yes, DD is fine at any number
It doesn't really make you change how you play and it's give or take just a passive dps upgrade
next arch
Awesome, thanks, very helpful. š
rigid mango
š
stoic token
for bursting weeks.. would cheat death be preferred over something like leech poison..
not sure how good leech poison but.. if it gave passive uptime it may help healer
drifting cloud
its bad
by far the worst talent on that row
youd be better off running elusiveness if you want to help the healer
stoic token
ok better than cheat death in a m+? how much single target dmg i need to mitigate that feint cant get from aoe mitigation?
drifting cloud
yeah and thats why cheat death is the pick in 95% of scenarios
if not more
you dont realize how good cheat is until you dont have it š
and specifically for bursting elusiveness would prevent way more dmg than leeching would heal
stoic token
right but could feint mitigate that or do I need the actual talent into single target to get that mitigation?
drifting cloud
afaik feint itself doesnt do anything to bursting dmg
stoic token
so would u run elusiv ove Cheat death this week?
drifting cloud
I would not
the pros of it just dont outweigh the cons of losing cheat
and bursting isnt really that hard of an affix generally when people play it properly
stoic token
thanks for your thoughts. just did a 16 junkyard and wasnt bad
drifting cloud
lets bother seli Im sure hes got nothing better to do @marble hemlock
how often have you played elusiveness? some high KRs, anywhere else?
marble hemlock
temple sometimes
depends on what healer i play with
with rdruid you can play it in temple
drifting cloud
and I guess its safe to assume youve never played leeching?
marble hemlock
i played leeching quite a bit recently
i recommend doing it for anyone who feels like they never proc cheat š
drifting cloud
so not me, gotcha
marble hemlock
we have shitty defensive trait options, always had
so leeching is a good way to make up for it
it usually heals ~3times as much as my lucid
with surprisingly little overhealing
drifting cloud
yeah but most of that healing is almost never needed, no?
and then you fuckup once die because you didnt have cheat and that maybe causes you to int the key
acoustic latch
So in a fight, when I've popped TB should I try for more Combo Point envenoms, or more envenoms overall?
buoyant hawk
worldly adder
Anyone have any thoughts on the engineering googles azerite traits at the 465 tier?
arctic walrus
make them and get the 475
meager bridge
Goggles are decent, but sure as hell not amazing. Can use them for pvp or king's rest (chance to remove the axe bleed) though.
vernal wadi
Hey fellas I did my 5 mask run with 2xSS 2xNP 1xEB yesterday and i wanted to give it a try for 15~ keys since itās tyrannical week but i performed lower compared to running 3xSS 3xEB before. Any tips are appreciated especially traitwise.
terse orchid
It reall depends on what the rest of your party brings to the table, but I like running 3xSS 2XHOD 1XEB in tyrannical weeks
3xSS and 1HOD/NP/EB might be more optimal though, if your party has plenty of AoE damage regardless
dark token
do you not use coral on first vendetta?
my quick sim applied it on first garotte and kept stacks for 2nd vendetta
tropic ocean
no
dark token
weird, pins said for each vendetta
tropic ocean
u extract it with 2nd vendetta
yeah
u apply it, reuse with vendetta
apply, reuse with vendetta
and in m+ if ur tank/group is fast u kill pack-get the buff apply it on boss
and have the buff during first vendetta too
dark token
m+ pretty much use it on cd right?
dark token
does the mob dying extract it for u?
dark token
cool
outer lotus
It doesnt reset the CD, it just doesnt trigger one
tropic ocean
outer lotus
Something to note is that you get the crit no matter for what reason the stacks are lost. Merektha digging down or shrine boss stepping into the rune also give you the crit
strange python
Elaborate planning or master poisoner for m+?
tropic ocean
elaborate planning
faint harness
What did they think when they put MP on that row
It only buffs deadly poisons
Seems weird
In terms of dmg ofc
vast forum
It used to buff all poison dmg, including envenom and pb
They changed it without thinking too much
What they did with blindside is an even bigger mystery
An ability not even worth casting in execute
faint harness
MP should be a pvp talent
dark crag
Blindside doesn't proc dd
faint harness
Its like they dont play their own game
undone comet
Hi guys, can anyone help me on this?
I run Galecallers Boon (1 Min CD) in combination with Blood of the enemy and Vision of perfection(1 :30 Min CD). Should i delay using Galecallers Boon to sync it with Vendetta+Blood or should I use it on CD and sync it with every other Vendetta+Blood use?
flat wadi
Does outlaw and assa share same loot table except weapons?
strange python
yes
outer lotus
Yes
next arch
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/86W8K4rncQjsKPM8aYojze
should i stop using this character. that 66,666 dps.
maiden raptor
Due to the visionchange next week i kinda want to get into high maskruns. How exactly is the build looking for us. Afaik it's 3ss/3np with exsang and stack haste for more garrote ticks? Something like that? I kinda struggled to run 3 Masks this Week and wanted to know if there are any tips 
spark oyster
as long as you have 3 ss you're good to go
and you can run tb instead of exsang if you want to, bosses will still melt
also I found Drest's trinket to be insanely good on bosses
paired with BotE
cobalt pelican
what was causing you issues in your previous run
dark token
i like the pvp trinket on bosses
i use my 445 over anything else
you can freely change gear so make a gearswap macro and put it on your sidebar for bosses vs trash stuff
maiden raptor
This week in og it was actually the jumping over lava madness which caused me to either unstealth when jumping into mobs with detection. Or i just ate way too much dmg than i should have. Prolly due to mobs not dying quick enough
dark token
hot foot is pretty cancer tbh
maiden raptor
neat i didnt knew you could swap gear
dark token
do you have elite extermination/gift of the titans?
maiden raptor
jup
cobalt pelican
are you playing leeching
maiden raptor
i'm only missing the party perks
dark token
use leeching poison + the healing food
maiden raptor
i did infact play leeching
maiden raptor
gotta get my hands on that
dark token
ghastly ghoulash
maiden raptor
so you guys are running 2 sets for vision? but with the same azerite traits prolly?
dark token
other than that just watch a 5 mask route video
cobalt pelican
i just play 1 set of gear really
dark token
i just run diff trinkets for a boss because they die in 15 sec
cobalt pelican
there's a few mobs in org you can skip if you're struggling like
the headbutt mob before rexxar can be blinded while you clear up the small ones and then kidneyed and killed
dominators should never cast with iron wire anyway tbh
dark token
i would just watch a video of a 5 mask route @maiden raptor
cobalt pelican
drum for rexxar if you need it, ideally make sure you have gift up at some point
maiden raptor
bringing drums is a good point actually
dark token
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4UJUax3tUQ here you go, try it with 4 masks then if thats ez do 5
oops thats stormwind
dark token
cobalt pelican
you can use all consumables in there so battle shout scroll whatever if you actually are struggling for damage
maiden raptor
I think it's more a execution/survival problem
cobalt pelican
as a rogue you get the luxury of just
taking it slow
3 mobs at a time
you don't ever need to ape pull to meet timer
you CAN if you're comfortable but it's just not needed
just kill everything with empowered garrotes and restealth and move along
maiden raptor
yea stealthing through half the packs is so good
are you guys using the pinned exsang opener?
cobalt pelican
uhhh i kinda make it up tbh, it's a bit weird because you rarely need the fully pandemiced bleeds before mobs die
like g r g exsang is fine, the pandemiced rupture is not really needed at least in my gear
if anything it adds a lot of time to the opener that makes it harder on stuff like rexxar when if you know gift will proc soon (1min icdish~) you just open and kill with cloak of shadows up, same in sw for a lot of mobs
maiden raptor
does np count into the exsang mechanic?
cause i've been doing g r g ven exsang idk if that's even needed with np tbh
cobalt pelican
exsang si just bleeds and np is a poison
faint harness
dont you want to apply a big rupture before doing exsang there
faint harness
it was a question, cus i am quite sure thats what you did back in the day
but no clue if its still a thing
outer lotus
I think fairy's point is that the mob dies before applying a pandemiced rupture would matter
So g r g exsang ends up faster
woven bane
do you overcap cp in your opener with master assassin? after the first muti env muti where you use garrote and tb together with vendetta i always overcap cp and idk how to play the opener differently
cobalt pelican
yeah, in a raid environment nothing has changed and a full garrote and rupture are to be in place before exsang but in visions it's just a bit different
pliant heron
what should i use as 3rd minor for visions if i'm running breath/lucid/iris and don't have c&s? i've just been mindlessly using vop but it doesn't really give me meaningful extra vendetta casts and pp feels weak
vernal wadi
purification protocol
drifting cloud
The 2 you listed either should be fine
tropic ocean
Protocol 
rigid mango
idk I've been using PP feels really good 
dark token
i do PP/lucid/VoP because my vendetta timings are a bit awk with the route
PP does good dmg
rigid mango
idk I just felt like lucid + pp + strife worked best for me
I don't need anything but add clear for time efficiency's sake, the bosses/minibosses take care of themselves
vast forum
Bit late to the party for the exsg opener but i found it best to go g vend g r exsg bote
You get your np rolling earlier and you get full r and double g in there
Then mfd envenom
outer lotus
Exsang also gives more energy regen because of faster dot ticks right? Atleast felt like that when i used it
vast forum
Yea
outer lotus
Man how does exsang work with the affix that makes time Flow faster? Full garrote in 3sec or something?
vast forum
If you don't burst 250k you're doing it wrong KEKW
I guess the bleed just ticks faster yea
outer lotus
Imagine if you could go garrote > exsang > garrote with that affix because garrote ticks in one global 
vast forum
Well it's 30% faster, would need to be 1000% faster for that to work
outer lotus
The time thing goes up to 200% right?
pallid skiff
Can someone smarter than me take A look at these and tell me why im parsing so low? Ive spent hours looking at these and can't figure it out...
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/area-52/roselietta
dark crag
Unluckyness
dark crag
I hope the azerite is not your raidsetup
pallid skiff
I forgot for a few bosses last night to equip my mind flat gloves
quasi pewter
yea just saw
pallid skiff
it is my raid setup, except on hive mind I use my m+ set
quasi pewter
ur gear is just not great
pallid skiff
rip
pallid skiff
Hmm, okay
dark crag
Your opener on maut is a bit wrong
pallid skiff
Ah
quasi pewter
even crucible major is better on r3 than blood r2
and lucid very important r3
gotta get on those old content dailies unfortunately
pallid skiff
Fug
pallid skiff
okie doke
quasi pewter
but mythic pug should be easy to find too
pallid skiff
What can I fix with my gear?
quasi pewter
at this point the bosses are pushover
pallid skiff
I was jus stacking double dose and taking whatever else was single target
pallid skiff
Okay. Thanks a ton, looks like I have some work to do
quasi pewter
no problem
umbral hemlock
What would you guys recommend for simming aoe? 3-5 bosses in a 1,5 min fight or dungeon slice? Trying to figure out some trinkets /corruptions
arctic tulip
for tyr week, do we stay in a sorta ST build or still go with the aoe build
subtle tundra
what do you mean the st and aoe build
there's one build for dungeons, the SS build
subtle tundra
hell naw
arctic tulip
gotcha
autumn badge
I see so many rogues running blood of the enemy as a major, and I totally understand why, but Condensed Life Force always sims higher for me.
outer lotus
Then use it
twilit grove
hey guys, there is a certain stats cap to reach for assa in pvp/mm+/raid ? i don't find something who talk about this ( bad english soz )
distant lava
no there isn't
prisma violet
I can't find any Raider.io assa rogues that I can compare my traits and all with
Kinda wanna see what everyone is using š
prisma violet
Which essences are top?
distant lava
I think most don't use EB anymore
prisma violet
With minor
distant lava
blood major, lucid minor, breath minor and then most play vop, conflict isn't bad either
prisma violet
Ok, I currently run blood major, lucid breath and conflict minors
strange python
you can look up morningwind and seliathan
prisma violet
servers?
strange python
yes
strange python
area 52 i think
maiden raptor
Pretty sure beam major is cause the healer is using formless void
prisma violet
Might be
tacit wing
He said that was one reason, the other cos he has loads of crit from corruption
prisma violet
Cheers anyways guys
maiden raptor
Makes sense
strange python
morningwind always memes and tries stuff
vast forum
I wouldn't recommend beam in m+ ever as assa
Very low st value for a small potential aoe gain is deffo not worth
iron slate
@distant lava were you referring those traits for mythic+?
warm drift
hey. why do people open with garr,rup,garr,vendetta,mut, exan and not garr,garr,rup, vendetta, exan ?
st
warm drift
ahhh i see
is there a scenario where u garrote twice then rup. into exang?
or should i always follow that rule with garr, rup, garr
prisma violet
As 452, I should be able to run 2 medium zones + thrall in a horrific vision
correct?
subtle tundra
depends on research and cloak level
prisma violet
Cloak level 6, and 1/3 on the chests research
prisma violet
Got 5 keys in my bag right now, don't really wanna fuck em over by having too low dsp
dps
subtle tundra
use an orb after each medium zone
as long as you're using atleast 1 ss and subterfuge everything should be easy
rigid mango
Depends a lot on what your traits are too, tbf.
Sin is probably the best spec in the game for soloing, atleast one of atleast. But it comes down to what your setup is
And you need to be semi-optimised for it to work out.
distant lava
Sin is slow tho
I'm not sure you can manage 2 zones with what you have
Specially if you aren't that experienced about visions
prisma violet
Well, got a 472 DH with maxed cloak
So pretty experienced with it, but just not sure how to run it with this low dps rogue :/
rigid mango
Depends on ur traits and essences etc
It shouldn't be hard to get atleast 2 easy zones
distant lava
I did it as dh with like rank 4 cloak and 415 ilvl, but you can't pull as big with rogue sadly
rigid mango
But elite extermination is when you can go for bigger runs really
distant lava
Yep
Specially since you can't skip much with stealth
Because in drag and spirits you end up having to kill quite a few mobs
vital haven
anyone that needs convincing about sin's power in horrific visions needs to wathc this clip
distant lava
It's definelty strong
drifting cloud
yeah once you get elite extermination full clears become easy
distant lava
Ut there are stronger classes
drifting cloud
even at 450
upper wedge
yea i do 1 orb 5 mask runs at 461
distant lava
The strenght of sin is it's giga safe and bosses are a joke
arctic walrus
thrall wasn't a joke last night 
distant lava
Sounds familiar
lone junco
153% haste is pretty big
distant lava
Biggest problem of sin is you can't pull big, so even if you're faster on bosses you lose a lot on trash
Maybe if you have another EB you can still go big
vital haven
if your cloak is up to date there is no need to pull big anymore
arctic walrus
thing is my cloak wasn't up to date so it was a little sus
strange python
You can swap in visions right? So just outlaw for trash and swap sin for like thrall and rexxar? That was my plan this week. Or can you not swap specs and Iām going to be sad when I try?
scarlet sequoia
u can swap specs
rigid mango
Assa just wins on everything tbh xd
upper wedge
I wish I had the azerite gear for 3x SS and 3x NP
distant lava
you can
rigid mango
Go los chains
distant lava
click the bombs away
rigid mango
You think I'm some RP'er or what
I embrace it
Gotta do something in a nice and chill manner yk
drifting cloud
I guess I always do the pigs on thrall
maybe if I just ignored them would work
just never tried it
rigid mango
idk they just die from SS + one botd and the other just gets like 1 env and dead
And then it's just from taht point onwards
upper wedge
I assume 3x SS and 3x NP is the go-to m+ build too
rigid mango
bosses don't die insta and trash also matters a lot for your overall time
upper wedge
So what's the two traits for m+ then?
rigid mango
SS and EB are staple really
HoD is also great, TTK is also potent
EB gets replaced by stuff like those two in dungeons such as KR/ws/siege/tyr temple
When pulls aren't as big and bosses are more impactful
upper wedge
So anything but DD
rigid mango
DD sucks literal weiner
Even in the low mob density dungeons you find yourself using FoK often
And even then, if u need boss damage SS, HoD, Np and TTK are better options because they're not far enough behind to be too much of a loss whilst till being great in the rest of the dungeon
ruby notch
Guys what traits, essences and trinkets can you recommend for a horific vision 5 masks run ? : )
distant lava
triple SS triple np
blood major lucid minor PP minor and breath minor
and I play font cyclo for maximum burst
vast forum
Depends on font i guess
ruby notch
Ok ty š
drifting cloud
dont think main stat does anything to it
ruby notch
what about segment + torment ?
worldly adder
Looks like Barrage of Bombs sims higher than the capacitor trait on the engineering goggles. But I see some folks saying it can fall behind based upon it only dropping where the targetted add is standing (and thus doing no damage if they're not by anyone else). Anyone have any experience trading between those traits on assassination?
worldly adder
What would you run instead and why?
distant lava
gizmo
because bombs is shit
I ran it in fortified freehold
it did
1.5% of my dps
it's just bad
if it procs on ST that's shit
it can not hit adds
it can get stuck in ceiling or stuff like that
it can pull through walls
worldly adder
gizmo changes camera angle and what not no?
distant lava
no bombs does
gizmo is just a stat proc
it's not that gizmo is really good
it's just that bombs is really shit
distant lava
that's the tank thing right ?
worldly adder
ah yeah I didn't read the effect right
just read the damage instead of mitigation part
mental elbow
if i have garrote or rupture falling off and have full combo points and enerdy do i just reapply them or do i have to fully wait till they fall off the target?
visual mesa
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
woven pine
@mental elbow you can refresh your dots if they have 30% of the duration remaining and it will add it on top of your next application
mental elbow
i was gonna ask about aoe to do u just fan of knives envenom or try to get garrote/rupture with all the combo points?
woven pine
Depends on azerite traits, talents
If you get a couple of ruptures on the targets youāll get a lot of energy from them (Venemous wounds), donāt apply loads though just like 2-3 and spam FOK
long gate
So is it always worth doing 3 garrotes on opener for ST?
rigid mango
You never do 3 garrotes in opener for ST
strange python
u forgot the vendetta at start smh
outer lotus
And the garrote especially on the target that you're not
long gate
gotcha, thanks.
raven mica
shrewd night
garret 
tropic ocean
rapter
distant lava
vanish garret specially on the targetthat doesn't have it
crimson tempest
LET'S GO
quiet forge
Could anybody please check out my gear real quick? Mostly trying to figure out best combination of corruptions and rings. Dont have raidbots premium :[
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oPPwcbH5LDFvpKsTPk3MyK
quiet forge
Would like to use both twisted appendage but dont think its possible
quiet forge
great, thanks
strange python
how much corruption are u comfortable with?
strange python
bold orchid
hey guys im just curious what you all think, i see that focused resolve is higher simmed dps potion but all the top logs i can find use unbridled fury, is there a reason why it turns out that way?
crimson palm
Are all the top logs from different people playing your character?
bold orchid
heh yeah i understand your point
faint harness
Focused resolve assumes ur just hitting the same target for its duration, if you ever swap off it will lose the stacks
I personally havent simmed the crit potion since we understood how it worked in early BFA, cus it sounds like absolute shit. Unbridled fury is simply just more flexible and convenient to use, but thats just my opinion
rigid mango
Idk I see no reason not to use it when you know you'll just be hitting a target for 20 sec
I just use both and use them diff dpendant on situation
summer valve
it's not even if you swap, if you have any aoe procs or anything it will break the pot too
if there is another target that gets hit by it
rigid mango
Aoe procs don't break it, do they?
I've not checked tbh but I don't remember PB or anything removing stacks
summer valve
afaik any damage instance to anything that isn't the target with the debuff will remove it
magic thorn
Hey Guys,
do i still wanna run 3 SS + 3 EB for M+ or has it changed?
rigid mango
Nah not all damage breaks it, aoe/swapping targets does @summer valve
rigid mango
Sin rogue should have 0 issues
summer valve
the azerite trait light's decree for ret paladins breaks it and it's passive aoe
summer valve
i mean it's a proc technically lol
rigid mango
I'd assume
summer valve
when they spend HP it damages all targets around them passively
rigid mango
But it originates from the paladin, not the target, right?
summer valve
during wings
rigid mango
beacuse that's diff
So fok for example will muddle your stacks
But you can have bleeds up and running on something else and it wont take the stacks
summer valve
PB source damage is player as well i think
rigid mango
nor will aoe procs from the taret
summer valve
interesting
rigid mango
It's not about teh source damage
it's there the proc happens
If it's "from" the player, it's counted as aoe I'd guess
But since the proc is a random proc that also splashes, it's diff
You can even mouseover macro spells
So you can apply a rputure for example, during the pot, without losing stacks on maintarget
summer valve
oh
rigid mango
It's the same logic as the shield in temple for example
summer valve
i wonder if it's coded to be direct vs "dot" type damage then
rigid mango
I'm pretty sure dot or not is irrelevant
It's just about target etc
Probably somethinig with auto attacks or smth
summer valve
well temple in shield if it's done the same way
dot ticks and some stuff like havoc blade dance don't proc it, but druids moonfire cleave talent or mage's splitting ice do, despite player not targeting
rigid mango
I'm shocked blade dance doesn't proc it
but yeah again, it's just about logic of aoe vs ST or smth
summer valve
it's because it has a primary target component and a secondary target aoe
rigid mango
BD seems like an outlier though
Yeah but so does moonfire
and splitting ice
The logic is applicable to all three cases
summer valve
well splitting ice and moonfire are technically "add a second target" rather than aoe
so i guess there's a nuance there
rigid mango
Probably, but aoe would proc the shield 100%
So I don't entirely get why BD doesn't since I'd defo count it in the aoe category
faint harness
Regardless, the fact that this needs to be discussed is enough for me to just always use unbridled
summer valve
but that's good to know, i've been avoiding the use of focused resolve because i figured all aoe procs affected it since it did for a lot of specs
rigid mango
Meh, it's simple
For sin it's really straight forwards and doesn't need any thinking
faint harness
The difference is likely to be extremely minimal if any
faint harness
Running low crit?
rigid mango
And most of the cases you're just hitting 1 target during vendetta
Nah running severe shit
I say that, but I havn't simmed it in ages
faint harness
I have 50% crit normally, it has dr
rigid mango
It just always simed better after I tried simming it a while
faint harness
Might be
rigid mango
but ye it's not like it's a headache for sin
You ahve nothing that should lose your stacks unless you play like a mong
faint harness
But to me, unbridled is simple as fuck and just does whatever its supposed to do
rigid mango
And it's especially good to use on first vend
For obv reasons
The second one has higher rate of DR and probably less valuable
but ye I use both
faint harness
I could see a case for using it as prepot
rigid mango
Yeh w/o coral stacks it's a fair bit better (I'd assume)
magic thorn
How good is the stacking Crit Corruption in M+ ?
I currently have R3 Twilight + R2 Twisted , and got a 475 Crit Mastery Belt with R2 Deadly Momentum. I simmed a bit with Dungeonslice but i cant decide what to purge or if i want to keep it
halcyon zealot
For overall single target, on a fight like M Shadhar, do yall think Strife r3 or iris r3 is a better minor? paired w BoTE major and Lucid/Breath as other minors
magic thorn
If you can dodge all the abilities sim it, the fight is like patchwerk so it just depends on your stats
drifting cloud
should be iris by a little bit, but I never remember to swap anyways
halcyon zealot
yeah iris sims 115 dps higher, so about the same
true nexus
SKILLFUL dps
halcyon zealot
god the things id give for a T3 stars or a Gushing Wound
royal lantern
good rng can and will happen sometimes
and stars is a tricky case
its not bad, its a strong proc, but the stack effect can be a bit fucky sometimes
mossy adder
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bq71mguHeGkaaZGS1bpNuw
subterfuge simming higher with no shrouded
wat
why is this a thing
harsh sphinx
rigid mango
@mossy adder bec subt scales better
It's % based gain scaling off of all secondary stats vs flat % of DR'ing crit
rancid bobcat
MA is just very neutered
rigid mango
And since you use coral (and probably blood) the crit from MA is normally partially/majorly gone to waste
cobalt gyro
50% crit for a few seconds stops being as useful once you get to 100% crit (or close to it)
mossy adder
ah that makes sense
rigid mango
Subt was on the heels of MA in TEP, and with the recent APL updates it might've even realistically been better even then
Also offers more cleave if you need it
mossy adder
so its worth to try in raids? never really though of it
rigid mango
I dislike how the opener feels bec it just kinda feela 
A lot of people (me included) don't play it everywhere
Even though they/we probably should
cobalt gyro
any time you can run SS traits its pretty pog
rigid mango
Yeh, SS is more of a niche instead of subt's general, all boss usage
mossy adder
hmm
its only 100 or so DPS for me
so i guess i dont bother changing
wasnt aware it was anywhere near competitive though
rigid mango
Generally it'll beat ma most cases
But yeah 100 dps is a negligible diff
Think it's around 300 for me now
fading wigeon
I am trying to figure out something. I am going for strife. I have rank 1. I got myself up to 1.2 k rating. How many weeks would it take for me to get to rank 3 strife?
drifting cloud
too many
drifting cloud
get 1.4 or 1.6
fading wigeon
ok !
drifting cloud
- another week for r2
short quarry
Is there an easy way to find azerite pieces with EB and SS?
cobalt pelican
eb is pretty much exclusively on residuum/pvp gear this season, ss is pretty readibly available on basically everything
untold current
Is there a way to sim theoretical corruption peices while keeping the scale top gear scale at 39/59 w/e amount u play with?
cobalt pelican
you'd just add the sim string to your top gear and sim from there
untold current
oh ya, fair enough
cobalt pelican
strings can be obtained either by building them from scratch using the bonusid list at https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/bfa-dev/SpellDataDump/bonus_ids.txt or you can gear compare and find them in the full html report
short quarry
I mean a single piece that has both EB and SS, i assume I'd have to get the residuum ones?
untold current
@cobalt pelican thx
cobalt pelican
yes, pretty much
it's like blight tribe+mechagon chest, gold-tasseled/mechagon/pistoleers shoulders and i forget the name of the head actually
short quarry
Alright, thank you very much for the info š
steep obsidian
hidden mason
so weird question maybe, am noob. Just boosted a rogue on a new server to play with new group and my total prior exp with rogue is leveling to ~65 as outlaw. I want to try sin but I'm reading ST vs AOE is super different. What build should I go for if I'm just learning it for the 1st time?