like zilch
#assassination
woven pine
i was like everything else im above the other rogues but then i noticed no double dose 
strange python
wait u played without poison
lean marten
feelsbad
strange python
Energy reg is so wlow without it though?
white wyvern
How did you not notice you have like no energy regen. lmao
woven pine
i went on break and didnt notice, pull timer when i got back - just pooled alot but honestly, quite fine with my damage - a testament
considering
lean marten
tfw ur corruptions made up for missing half of ur class mechanics
woven pine
only time i cant argue it tbh
definitely first pepega moment in months
envenom damage still higher than the rest and more casts i dunno chief
thorn horizon
Is there a haste breakpoint where you should be using conflict and strife minor over focused energy?
rigid mango
You just use w/e sims best
night vale
@woven pine you had deadly poison on that log you linked though?
I had it once where traits did not damage, just had to unequip the year and re-equip. It’s a big
Bug
woven pine
nah i didnt it dropped off
true nexus
golden roost
When is the best time to use blood of the enemy during opener?
Never mind it’s in pins
surreal solar
What are people generally doing for M Hivemind? I feel the adds live too long >.>
split furnace
guys without vop do you wait to use vendetta with vanish?
wide delta
does haste triggers mind flay more often?
orchid sequoia
faint harness
@wide delta nope
split furnace
on maut do you wait for vanish to use vendetta and essence?
outer lotus
i still try to line up vendetta and empowered garrotes in m+ with 3x SS right? on single target atleast
or vendetta and vanish rather
quasi pewter
yes
glacial steppe
is 3x EB essential for M+? kinda wanna swap from outlaw to sin but only have 1x EB so far
jolly comet
3x SS is more important and 3x EB
glacial steppe
I have 3x SS, 1x EB, 1x NP, 1x TK
inland escarp
Tbh i feel like that’s solid on a tyrannical week but others were saying 1 eb felt bad
quasi pewter
all you need is 3ss
rigid mango
3ss just hard carries most of ur damage
EB is more of a thing to keep your damage flowing when they start dropping off
outer lotus
is there an extensive list of what amount of targets makes ignoring envenom and just spamming FoK better with X amount of TTK/EB traits?
tribal marlin
outer lotus
oh shit ive been spamming FOK at like 4 targets with 1 EB 
lapis osprey
Was there any progress concerning the usage of vanish with vision of perfection?
rigid mango
ah no I like never spam it vaughn
outer lotus
but in blood of the enemy i always spam FOK for the 5min as long as there are a couple targets and no big priority?
rigid mango
It's hard to get into a scenario like it and even when nearing it I normally just pump env's on some prio
outer lotus
*5 sec
rigid mango
Eh, I find myself using it for prio more and more, but I don't know if that's correct tbh.
pliant heron
is 3ss important enough to use like previous tier ilevel azerite? dungeon slice says no for me but everyone says it's super important
outer lotus
yea im just pugging some random 15s messing around with sin, seems like im doing it all wrong but still doing decently
pliant heron
i only have one 480 piece with ss and the others are all 450 rip
outer lotus
im using a 460 helmet and 470 chest so i can have 3 ss 
distant lava
TURBAN GANG 
outer lotus
distant lava
82 👉 🚪
outer lotus
i stopped doing island cap and non-gear world quests once i reached 80 lol
distant lava
same
gloomy knoll
with 3 dd what ad density would be required for you to cast fan over mutilate
vast forum
9
gloomy knoll
so on wrathion just get a bleed up if it will get uptime and just spawn mut envenom on pillars?
er i guess with the vision minor what would you be using cd's on in the spike phase
vast forum
nothing, save vend for the phase after
gloomy knoll
word
why use vision minor then
would c&f be better if you're holding?
or does it not line up with something
gloomy knoll
gotcha
yea logs look like you'd get cucked at 120
so what do you do to the spikes then
all the top logs have fan
even with 2-3 dd
tacit pebble
mainly fan to spread poisons p much
pliant heron
how many targets make fok worth casting with 1 or 2 dd then? always wondered that but never saw any mentions anywhere
jolly comet
if i remember correctly its like min 5
pliant heron
cool, ty
outer lotus
sin superior spec confirmed 
gritty yew
maiden raptor
how's clockworkheart for m+? kinda trying to go for more prio dmg since my group as a ton of aoe allready
next solar
so how big of a pushover is drestagath? We should kill vex tomorrow and start prog on drest
distant lava
Imagine wiping 100 times onthat boss
rigid mango
Yeah dude imagine
next solar
Im swapping off rogue to mage for it, we already have so much melee and my corruption is doodoo
tacit pebble
my guild spent more time on it than anything other than nzoth xd
next solar
I wish there was a way to see parses without corruption, So i can see how im really doing and not feel like shit for having bad rng
outer lotus
Well there isnt anyone thats running no corruption
next solar
oh i know, its more like what better could i have done instead of rely on passive damage if that makes sense
strange python
my IS sims 1k more than my other set of corruptions should i prefer IS even tho it doesnt perform as well in the fights like in the sims?
drifting cloud
play the non IS
faint harness
Drestagath is one of those fights you will look back to after tier is over and realize its easily overly engineered
faint harness
Just fucking get ppl to pick up debuff when they can do dmg and hit adds otherwise
Legit nothing more to it, but we had these precise timings, movement etc
Really trihard stuff for no reason
Just made it more difficult
rigid mango
Yeah I made those too because people didn't understand simple concepts such as
"I have no debuff and my cds are up, what do I do 
"
wet ruin
does anyone know how clipping GW procs work? do they add the damage from the previous one or is it just lost
faint harness
Yea its a rough situation
strange python
zine arent u the "foreverguy" of assas?
faint harness
I swear ive seen that corruption stay at around 40% uptime no matter the log i check
rigid mango
Idk what you mean lonewolf
wet ruin
so when we get lucky with procs we are getting unlucky with it 😄
rigid mango
If you mean the dude that's most active and answers a lot of the shit, yeh
wet ruin
nice
faint harness
The uptime is already really good
strange python
whats ur stance on IS ?
strange python
because i have 2 sets of corruptions 1 is without IS but it sims 1k less
rigid mango
Just very RNG
I'd take the one w/o IS for 1k dps loss anyday
realistically the consistancy diff should matter a lot more
faint harness
It sims well, and it can technically do really well in a fight with 1 target over 5 mins
strange python
ok thank you very much
rigid mango
It's good on nzoth on the basis of just being a very long fight
It has some validity to maybe be used on vexiona for last phase dps(?) but that's very luck based
and something else like TA might proc better and just be more consistant throughout
frozen karma
IS is good on fights that don't matter
faint harness
I am running IS for nzoth from now on
rigid mango
Ultimatly just having the stat ones is just down to your own skill and not really proc shit
faint harness
Testing
faint harness
P2 dmg should be good
rigid mango
I mean ur not gonna be insane or anything for u
but that's bec u can't test shit that's made to stack up for last phase
frozen karma
I have like 3 IS at 475, kinda sucks for regular fights
rigid mango
but ye last time I checked nzoth is a relevant fight 😄
strange python
i have a dagger with strikethrough 3 or this setup
https://gyazo.com/403114bc9f1ff108da7f0ff1f6c6f64d
faint harness
TA is full lottery, IS also giga rng but procs semi-reliably, but can be on wrong targets
strange python
i have to test both which feels better idk
faint harness
Like mikhisas log, his TA did 800k dmg to nzoth
Over entire fight
Thats incredibly poor for 35 corruption
Cus its completely rng
frozen karma
yeah I really dislike the RNG of corruption, would be much more enjoyable with consistency
faint harness
Pray for GW
strange python
but yeah thanks a lot for the answers
frozen karma
frozen karma
faint harness
Barely used cus i have really good alternatives for boots while nothing in other slots
Soooo unluckyy
frozen karma
I got cucked this week with visions, my 470, 465 and 460 had no corrupt
rigid mango
I paid for mine 🙂
frozen karma
I'm way too poor to buy gear haha, I got 700k right now and it's the most I've ever had
faint harness
Got corruptions on my visions ones, but like mastery procs, vers on hit etv
frozen karma
You can go Sub 
faint harness
For sure
civic hatch
Who buys gear lol
frozen karma
noice
civic hatch
I haven’t bought gear since vanilla
faint harness
MW monk in my guild managed to get 475 boots with 12% haste and leech for 900k
Decent
frozen karma
last item I bought was Fathoms Deck on release
faint harness
Yo i was so fucking dumb on release
Ashamed to say how much i paid for that trinket
strange python
anyone else simming botd major top?
short token
do we get more corrup resist in the future or is this the cap?
faint harness
Its close to bote
short token
ty push
frozen karma
WV is best for me with CLF not too far behind
But I've stopped using WV cuz my fellow melees stopped using it as well
faint harness
Wv is likely best for me too, but its one of the few things where i ignore the bot
frozen karma
Used it for a while cuz every melee in our group and even tanks agreed to use it and then one day I just noticed no one was using it anymore and they never said anything about it lol
faint harness
It was very cool early on
But then ppl started going through uptime in logs etc
And its not great on certain fights
short token
what's your guys' opinion on 10 corrup 6% mastery, worth the 10 corrup? it's really annoying me, i'm at 60 corruption atm with the set i want to wear so cleansing it would put me at 50 but idk. I also want to socket the dagger that has it (475 jolly boot) but it makes me hesitate a bit
strange python
cleanse the dagger
faint harness
My opinion is first of all that i wouldnt run 60 corruption ever, giga annoying
strange python
its the only logical thing
faint harness
6% mastery isnt bad i think, but prob not worth crossing into 60 territory
drifting cloud
if you dont have other 475 daggers, just cleanse it
faint harness
Not sure what other type of corruptions you have
drifting cloud
t1 mastery roll is never gonna be some insane difference maker
faint harness
Nope
strange python
its a nice filler tho
frozen karma
how high are sin players simming without IS?
rigid mango
80-82k is pretty good
frozen karma
I have some pretty insane patchwerk sim with IS but yeah...
Ah not bad then
ignore the top one ofc
rigid mango
it all depends on what you're wearing
I wont use >39 sims as any benchmarks
And most people just sim w bote bec they use it even though it doesn't sim the best
Idk what the top end can achieve with essences they don't use etc
frozen karma
blood seems to sim the highest for that setup anyway
frozen karma
I can buy Gorak Tul's next week 
short token
also, mindflay on the offhand makes it proc less no?
short token
ok
civic hatch
I sim 71k 😭
jaunty crystal
I sim like 77 but stars 2 makes that number a bit of a bait.
civic hatch
Running double shard which is unreliable 99% of the time
jaunty crystal
my stars only did 300k on shadhar this week.
oh you're gonna outright buy a gorak's?
frozen karma
yup
civic hatch
My tentacles did 3.38mil damage on shaddar and I did 79k dps with that lol
jaunty crystal
I got lucky and got it on my first roll of the tier 😛
jaunty crystal
Yea I'm happy I got that. My last two rolls were shit chests that can't even replace my heroic darkheart
drifting cloud
yeah but last 2 tiers we had good gambles in other slots aswell
now maut helm and vex chest are pieces you get pretty early
compared to zaq helm for example
runic inlet
Question: Should I cast Toxic Blade, even at 5 combo points, before Envenom if it's up? Or cast Envenom without so as not to waste combo points?
rigid mango
Yus.
runic inlet
Yus to which? Bahaha
runic inlet
Okay. Thank you very much!
rigid mango
But preplanning your CP to be at a good amount is preferable, ofc.
runic inlet
Got it got it. Thank you kindly!
balmy dome
Do you guys think it would be worth to run Vita here due to the stars belt and stacking haste?
clear remnant
Is Drest'agath trinket worth using in M+ for trash packs? would a spyglass/dice be better?
plain thistle
drest trinket is split damage
drifting cloud
saryero used to be a fan, not sure if he still uses it or he just got better trinkets
lapis sundial
so I'm a bit confused by the rotations listed on the guide
do I not want master assassin if I have any shrouded suffocation?
arctic walrus
no because you get a lot of value from taking subterfuge
lapis sundial
so the rotation is: garrote, rup, garr, vendetta, TB, envenom, mutilate till 4+ combo, envenom again, vanish when garrote is out, then garrote twice?
as explained in the "one or more SS powers for TB" rotation
strange python
hello! scrub question inc- i have a 475 wrath dagger and a 470 carapace corrupted dagger. currenting i have wrath in main and carapace in offhand since wrath is higher ilvl.. but with the introduction of corruption pieces this patch should i be equipping the 470 corrupted dagger in main instead? (its got the mind flay corruption)
drifting cloud
doesnt matter what hand the corruption is in
so just follow highest ilvl mainhand
strange python
gotcha gotcha, thank you!
arctic walrus
@lapis sundial if you have a garrote on the target you only garrote once during vanish, outside of the opener
lapis sundial
what am I replacing it with
next solar
Is this just horrible stars procs? Going crazy trying to rationalize corruption with performance lol. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mZFqpGDRfygrtnH7#fight=9&type=summary&source=68
arctic walrus
sort of but also your stars is one a 445 which isn't the greatest
next solar
unfortunately that setup sims highest out of everything I have 😦 even tried simming other Azerite. I notice my envenoms hit fairly soft compared to a lot of other rogues. Could just be unlucky non Crits during tb
My rng just came to a screeching halt with corruption feelsbadman
flat wadi
does beam work good as major for assa?
viscid abyss
Earlier my sim said my void ritual 3 460ilv would give me more dps then a 455 ilv with infinite star 3. Now it says infinite does more lol
viscid abyss
more than stars 3 for single target? And in pugs it's kinda annoying to spec one by one searching for other 2 with void. Or is that a WA for it?
strange python
probs not better than IS3 no
but its not shit-tier anymore
there seem to be a few here: https://wago.io/search/void+ritual
viscid abyss
oooh thank you sir!
shy dust
IS in st
Is kind of a bait
It only works on PURE st
If there are any other targets it loses value drastically
Since it won’t get to max damage
It’s only good on like Shadhar
viscid abyss
Yeah, I mean purely single target raid bossess
for like raden I.E would ritual be better even with 1 add spawning during orbs spawns?
faint harness
Nzoth has a lot of adds, but due to the nature of the fight, IS is a valid option
With some decent (not crazy) rng you can have 10 stacks on nzoth before triggering p2
Which means another 5 minutes of him being active starting at 10 stacks
strange python
does it stack even when he got his shield up?
strange python
they should fix that 
faint harness
Why
Not the first boss it works like this on
Same with ilgynoth and his "deaths"
Keeps the stacks
flat wadi
Does assa and outlaw use similar trinkets? I'm kinda fresh 120 and trying to get assa gear for m+
thin zephyr
How are you supposed to do rexxar as a sin rogue?
winter moss
3 traits of shrouded suffocation, 3 traits of nothing personal
storm perch
kick cast from one boar, control another - use bloodlust/prepot, after half hp of rexxar - use cloak, burst down only rexxar
vast forum
3x ss 3x np prepot drums and rexxar should die before first boar cast goes through
storm perch
should be dead in 10 seconds
vast forum
Yea, just cloak first boar and he's dead
thin zephyr
i only have 2x ss 2x np 😦
vast forum
Exsanguinate is also your friend
thin zephyr
Am I able to vanish and reapply garrote or does it leave combat right away?
thin zephyr
ok ^^
vast forum
No need really
storm perch
if you got some npc help - maybe
vast forum
When you have a companion, such as valeera or the mag'har
storm perch
but i got a bug, oneday with Alleria
couldn't get to her room, after boss dissapeared
lost a vial
there were no interaction with a wall to Alleria
thin zephyr
How do you guys normally handle the one trash pack before rexxar?
They completely trash me
vast forum
You skip it
thin zephyr
They have stealth detection tho
thin zephyr
not that one
vast forum
You do the skip on the left
thin zephyr
theres a trash pack after that elite and before rexxar
vast forum
You don't have to kill anything except rexxar and misha in that zone
You just run out of bounds with lightfoot or sprint and use healing pot/vial if needed
thin zephyr
Ok, ima try that now. Thank you!
storm perch
I think I got it you are talking about big one who butts and throws you away. Just stand with your back to the fence, so you not fly away
thin zephyr
Yeah, but didnt you say it was skippable?
storm perch
im always killing it, will try what Yoppa said
sometimes you may get titans proc
and rexxar can't do anything with you)
cold meteor
Track Titan buff CD and keep an add for previous pack
inland gull
in vision play 3xSS and the talent which is - 15% dmg for 6 or 8 sec
thin zephyr
I dont have 3xss tho 😦
storm perch
is it possible to know, which npc is up in current vision for buff?
inland gull
i found if blacksmith is up, then 10% crit in old xmog shop up aswell
sleek spear
I don’t think you can skip mobs in the Rexxa zone anymore. I tried this week and running out of bounds just auto killed you with crazy damage taken in the out of bounds zone
Almost lost a 4 mask key and proced cheat death while out of bounds area. Think Blizz fixed it so you still have to clear your way to rexxar
inland gull
you can do like misha stealth kill the bugs after jumping river then you can stealth on the left of elite guy
jolly fable
skip is still possible
outer lotus
There is always 1 Buff in the First Zone and 1 buff in either of the 2 easy zones. So if you do drag First and the transmog guy isnt there u know that the fisher in the other Zone is
quasi pewter
skip is useless anyways
inland gull
you should not need much shenigans ye, i did 5 with full clear of mobs anf 5x mailboxes for mount chance
even on my druid tank 5 mask og felt easy in 465 and only 2x1 td
sleek spear
Do you need 1X echoing blades for visions guys?
inland gull
i uswd 3ss 2eb and 1np
sleek spear
Some people are saying 3X NP, but that seems kinda hard to get
inland gull
3x np is for bosses
sleek spear
Oh forgot we can switch gear in visions my bad
storm perch
i can't name a single situation, where you may get profit for 1x eb
inland gull
but with bote bosses melt instant
storm perch
1x eb is just - never should be used
sleek spear
Oh I thought 1X EB would be useful for m+ to get more combo points faster, and also for visions to build more CP?
thin zephyr
eb?
inland gull
its only cp if you count like more bote minor stacks
storm perch
you should try at least 2x eb, if you for ex, got problems with the third one, or don't pick it
somewhere in chat, was a disc, how many targets you should be facing so 1x eb can be good
don't remember the amount, but you prob never be in that situation
only if tank do a big trash pulls
haughty zodiac
i do 5 mask full clear with 3x SS, 1x EB, 1x NP and a twisted knife cuz had no better
good multi target and st
had two orbs left
night vale
i just do 3xSS 3xEB for trash and switch to 3xSS 2xNP 1xHoD for ST bosses in the visions.
Works well enough 🙂
narrow comet
at this point with the cloak res and full traits by the time you lose 200 you have gained 200 from a kill, Guaranteed corruption from next reset and 5 mask runs are pretty easy for rogue and i am and old man even 😛 I don't even swap gear on bosses and make it pretty easy. The only thing i really hate is hot footed, so annoying
mystic fractal
potent raft
the meme vop major 3x NP build works surprisingly well on ra-den 😄
not a big diff. between BotE + vop minor
languid magnet
hey guys. Im not parsing super well on my assa rogue, and figured that there where some basic stuff im missing. I think my best parse is around 85% (compared to ilvl) but mostly im in the low 70.
so is either parsing a mess because of corruptions, or could i be missing some essensial part of the rotation?
spare narwhal
Parsing is shit. So much variability because of corruptions.
languid magnet
okay. I figured.
tender folio
Org 5 masks is easy AF compared to SW
languid magnet
yup. Very easy
tender folio
Did it with one orb left to use
languid magnet
wtf
primal turret
This tier parsing is weir i see lot of the top parses with a ton of corruption wich is bad for the progress imo
faint harness
Depends
languid magnet
i started with high corruption, but the healers asked me to lower it..
faint harness
If you can handle higher corruption without being a liability, its just more raid dmg
it becomes bad for prog if you constantly fall over to thing from beyond combos
languid magnet
Should i pool energy before i envenom to get more out of envenom buff and elaborate planning? and how much should i pool? i think thats an area i can optimize
storm perch
i guess you should pool energy before tb usage, so you can at least three envenoms there
faint harness
I think it has been said that you dont have to play around envenom buff/EP
storm perch
4 cp(pool energy) - tb - env...
scarlet sequoia
if u dont play around it then youre gonna end up having like 70% uptime on EP, if u play properly around it u have 85-90% uptime
so obv its better
faint harness
I dont play around it and still have 80%+
outer lotus
Pooling before a finisher doesnt actually give you more uptime on EP though, you just make better use of the window right?
Only way to get more EP uptime is by finishing more = not wasting cp
white wyvern
Naw, if you are just spamming finishers you will have less EP uptime than if you hold them for EP to run down more.
outer lotus
Oh yea true
scarlet sequoia
if u just spam finishers without a second thought then u starve
and lose ep uptime
rigid mango
I wish they made ep/env/dd matter more than it does
faint harness
just glanced through some personal logs
at the very least
80%
on every single boss, 85% on pure st
and pay 0 mind
to EP
rigid mango
Yeah that's the thing
You will naturally have high uptime regardless, because the spec plays fast enough that it isn't punishing enough
Back in like, BoD, it was a bit more impactfu
faint harness
If you sit at 70% ur doing something wrong
rigid mango
But with the addition of more and more haste, more and more free haste procs and probably most importantly, lucid, sin is just braindead
You pay 0 attention to what you're doing rotationally and the diff between you and a r1 player isn't even that big
rigid mango
It's like, super braindead now atleast
scarlet sequoia
sad
rigid mango
Has been since ep tbh atleast
I think it was semi braindead in BoD but mattered a little bit more
scarlet sequoia
eh it still mattered in ep
rigid mango
Lucid just fixed it
Nah it was still like
marginal dps gain to actually do anything
Around Ep
scarlet sequoia
little things count
rigid mango
Yeah but you can crit a couple of times and out dps the diff 
scarlet sequoia
smh
faint harness
rigid mango
Not irrelevant but it was defo like, not impactful at all
rigid mango
If anything, people should care more about fitting every mut inside of env window
faint harness
never cared about logs
rigid mango
which is only a worry when applying bleeds in the window
faint harness
always been a cheese factory
rigid mango
Yeah I mean logs this tier 
faint harness
agreed
rigid mango
maiden raptor
On fights like vexiona and hivemind if your task is to focus on bossdmg. Do you guys run the normal st build with MA and DD? Or still running SS with Sub and prolly Np?
rigid mango
It's just giga stupid shit happening cba caring
faint harness
im not the type of player that will play 100 corruption just to get some logs, cba that shit
rigid mango
I've not used SS anything this tier
apart from 1 specific case on nzoth that isn't really anything widely needed
maiden raptor
strange python
you can play subt without ss
maiden raptor
true did you run sub anywhere zine?
storm perch
So you don't even need pooling your energy for tb window?
scarlet sequoia
subterfuge on every single boss feels good man
rigid mango
I do on nzoth, and I should run it more frequently but I dislike how it plays and I'm a feelycrafter :)))
faint harness
TB window is not EP window
scarlet sequoia
with deeper stratagem its very nice at least
faint harness
dont confuse the 2
rigid mango
Subt is great literally everywhere
storm perch
Ah, k
strange python
deeper is so feelsbad
storm perch
Sry, got confused
strange python
idk i cant play it
scarlet sequoia
not with 42% haste 🙂
faint harness
🙂
strange python
faint harness
blasphemy
rigid mango
People think this shit matters a lot more than it actually does
faint harness
faint harness
yep
maiden raptor
Well i prefer MA too 
dont want to play sub in st
faint harness
subt or sub
rigid mango
Idk, subt is just great everywhere really
I'm not a fan though, but I play both
Not a huge gain for me either way
flat wadi
Whats the best approach to start gearing a kidna fresh 120 for m+ as assa? have tried outlaw and watched it alot but doesnt look very inticing to me
maiden raptor
Subt get's better once you reach higher critlevels rite? i remeber reading something bout that here
rigid mango
Subt gets better the more damage you do
The more gear you get the better it gets
And MA goes the other way
MA gives you a flat amount of the stat that DR's giga hard meanwhile subt just scales off of all of your stats % based
That being said, thanks to coral (and bote) you DR even harder on crit during vend
maiden raptor
But if you dont run ss the only thing you get from subt still is a fat garrote or am i missing something
rigid mango
Yep, you just get a garrote
BUt that garrote scales off of all your stats
Like any other garrote
And since the damage is % based, the more base damage the more damage the % adds
maiden raptor
ooof i assume you still double garrote when vanish is up?
rigid mango
n you just use it once
faint harness
you should already have a garrote running
maiden raptor
true
faint harness
its really good for ra-den i felt like
mythic
cus you have 3 targets on at least 2 vanishes
max value
maiden raptor
still hardstuck on maut mythic with my guild
faint harness
is maut the ashvane of nyalotha
rigid mango
Eh, kinda ig
It's just a boss that has numbers check + hps check that scales with the damage you do, kinda
Not really but depends on how braindead your group is
faint harness
a lot of ppl overplay it
just let the boss consume the adds earlier
if you struggle with mana on the shield
maiden raptor
the dmg he defelcts is magical iirc so cloak is the only thing to counter it rite?
faint harness
we had too many wipes too
but when we changed to just letting him consume the adds
after some minute
it got a lot easier
rigid mango
You just use elusiveness @maiden raptor
faint harness
i used to cloak during MA window
faint harness
i mean otherwise ur just dead
its just a 1 sec step
sounds like a waste of cloak
maiden raptor
I know. We thought using immunitys on it would be a good idea 
rigid mango
maiden raptor
gonna run t5 tendi next time
Zine did you use EB this tier? Or do you just focus on st on cleave fights?
outer lotus
i did maut with t5 twisted appendage and got a double proc and had to insta cloak
outer lotus
crits like 90k a second on top of your normal damage
rigid mango
But the rest I've neglected it entirelyl
If I want to play something that does what EB does I wouldn't be playing sin.
faint harness
too many padders in my guild for it to be worth
rigid mango
idk my guild was like padding boss dmg or smth idfk
came in had the easiest time of my life scuffed all my cds bec I had no clue about timings and still did aight
maiden raptor
my guild only looking at overall dmg
nobody appreciates me being top bossdmg but shit on overall meter
rigid mango
idk I played entirely for ravager/darter damage for the most part when I played hivemind but 
Could've played it so much better and havn't been in on a single rekills ince
rigid mango
I did too
but my setup was like turbo scuffed
some weird abom of ss ttk eb np of some sort
I just played w/e for the memes thinking I'd get time to see what I neede
faint harness
not getting any love from the casino azerite vendor
gambled like 4-5 times now or something
all crapo
cobalt pelican
my gear lookin kinda hot now
honest vessel
no u
cobalt pelican
just need to loot double carapace daggers and i'm gaming
maiden raptor
dude i got a hero carapce dagger with socket from last weeks event box
cobalt pelican
i looted one this week
just before heroic clear i was debating putting a vision socket in it
maiden raptor
we out here gaming
honest vessel
got nothing from carapace kill last night :(
faint harness
i cleansed a carapace dagger yday
maiden raptor
gimme font
honest vessel
f tendy
faint harness
and bonus rolled another one in casual heroic run same day 🙂
maiden raptor
Push you should use that luck on azerite
faint harness
if only
minor garden
How to best utilize blood of the enemy as assa? And when to use it in the opening rotation? Cant find any info about this anywhere
rigid mango
If only this channel had pins or smth
strange python
Blood of the Enemy:
For ST with MA and BotE use Blood into Vanish+Finisher after TB within Vendetta
@minor garden
tacit wing
does the energy from np stack?
rigid mango
no
subtle tundra
playing exsang yikes
maiden raptor
Is there any reason why the sim tells me to vers navigation on my mainhand and deadly on offhand. when i have deadly on my mainhand and vers on offhand
outer lotus
i thought that was the new hype?
maiden raptor
like is it something about the procrate?
rigid mango
Probably smth in sim setup
Kinda, @outer lotus
seli's new meta breaking build
will see what comes of it
outer lotus
i still dont want haste though right?
cuz all the old guides mention using exsang with galecallers boon
tacit wing
whats his new exang setup? anything in particular needed?
hallow coyote
rigid mango
m+
tacit wing
ill try 3np 3ss see what its like
vagrant tapir
rigid mango
y
cobalt pelican
all i ever learn from checking stuff (badly, granted) like this is that nothing matters when you play this spec as long as you press your core buttons semi-okayly
prolly doesn't hold after mikihisas suggestion of delayed vanish is added but the difference will still be very whatever
glacial crypt
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
crystal vault
Whats the point for vision minor on Carapace M?
outer lotus
475 electromental simming higher than 460 haste raden trinket on patchwerk 
brittle basin
430 ilvl 23k overall m+ is it good or bad?
woeful minnow
seems kinda mediocre if I try to remember last season numbers
strange python
depends on pulls and dungeon
woeful minnow
but you're 430 so... everything you do is gonna be an upgrade at this point
strange python
people are too focused on numbers smh
zinc coyote
brittle basin
Irislv1,memorylv1,protocol1,breathlv1
400dagger hand,offhand no enchants,no food etc
just trying to improve my rotation that's why I am asking
strange python
do u have logs?
brittle basin
I stucked between crimson tempest and poison bomb which one brings raw damage, trying to figure out
strange python
easiest way to improve
woeful minnow
people log m+s?
woeful minnow
but he's asking about m+
strange python
well
it's aoe rotation
and TS rotation
ST*
And there are bosses for both
and logs are easier to see rotation mistakes in
woeful minnow
a 6mins "aoe" rotation is completely different from a m+ chain pulling rotation
strange python
and dps per ilvl doesn't really show a lot
can probably see major mistakes in raid logs
brittle basin
I used to play sin rogue but it was long time ago
Oh I did not start raiding but I will save my logs to share with you guys in future
woeful minnow
@brittle basin check the pins for a guide and some answers to basic questions
brittle basin
thank you so much
woeful minnow
for talents and stuff try simming your character
gusty mirage
I stucked between crimson tempest and poison bomb which one brings raw damage, trying to figure out
@brittle basin PB on siege, KR, and tyrannical temple everything else CT is the better play
brittle basin
I would like to sim but, you know I just hit 120 and spamming dungeons without a clue, putting on me everything that dropped from bosses
woeful minnow
yeah that sounds about right
strange python
What azerite do u have @brittle basin ?
woeful minnow
check the guide for basic guidelines and start simming when your gear stops changing every 5 minutes
brittle basin
1xshrouded,1xechoing,1xnothing personal they are pretty random tbh
gusty mirage
try to get 3x Shrouded Suffocation, your AoE rotation is essentially opening with 3x Garrotes (playing subterfuge) and spam FoK and drop ruptures so you have 5 bleeds then FoK spam envenom. Ideal set up is 3x SS 3xEB but you're trading off a lot of ST dmg by going 3x EB. @brittle basin
strange python
I think NP would help a lot with the ST though?
gusty mirage
NP does, but never go more than 1 in m+
strange python
don't play assa in m+ so kinda asking for myself too ^^
ye I was thinking 3 ss 2 EB and 1 NP
or mby 1 eb 1 HoD 1 NP
woeful minnow
1EB is garbo
gusty mirage
1eb is kinda meh, but you can make it work by just baselining CT to buff your aoe dmg
its just based on your group
if you have a heavy aoe carries, you can get away with 1x EB
but at that point you'd probably be better off running a TtK in that slot and using CT for your AoE dmg
strange python
I see
brittle basin
@gusty mirage I was thinking same oxi 1xeb would do the work
strange python
I wish I could get some AoE assa pieces so I can try assa in m+ xd
gusty mirage
tbh with all the options corruption gives us, just play around and find something that you find fun 🙂 otherwise you'd be better off going outlaw in m+, but most people go assa in m+ because they like the playstyle more
brittle basin
anyways I will follow pinned guide, and probably will start logging and simming after get reasonable gear
I am not looking for min maxing tbh, mostly casual player here +16 was my best last season with warrior, so probably sin would do that work
gusty mirage
yeah just play traits that you find fun, but try to go 3xSS if you can for m+ b ecause it's objectively the largest source of dmg for us
lapis sundial
So once I've done my initial opener, and then done the vanish garrote, what do I default to till I can do the opener again with vanish
strange python
In ST blade?
gusty mirage
you just mut to 4/5cp envenom, try to fit 3+ envenoms into your TB window
keep bleeds up
lapis sundial
This is assuming a n'yalotha raid boss fight basically
gusty mirage
just go default rota until your vanish is back up
lapis sundial
Do I want to hold energy once tb is close to being off cd?
strange python
yes u want to pool like 80 I think
gusty mirage
you shouldn't have to do that (but it happens), but yeah as long as you don't overcap energy you're good to pool a bit waiting for TB
gusty mirage
biggest thing I learned (from this disc and specifically @rigid mango <3) is its all about maximizing our CDs
lapis sundial
Oh right, do I ever use the dagger throw thing
strange python
no
gusty mirage
only if your poisons are falling off and you don't have sprint/shadowstep up afaik, but you'll rarely if ever use it
lapis sundial
Aight
strange python
Dont find any situation u would need to use it
maybe on wrathion right before he flies away
gusty mirage
yeah it's going to be super rare if you ever use poisoned knife in pve
lapis sundial
Now for multi target, is it pretty much just the "garrote on an enemy that doesn't have it already and keep using spin"
lapis sundial
Uhh I don't remember, on my phone atm so I can't look at spells
strange python
Oxi knows better xD
gusty mirage
depends on the amount of targets
lapis sundial
Aight what's the breakpoint
gusty mirage
3x tars you'd just open with 3x garrote, someone can correct me if I'm wrong
strange python
ye I think if u do 4:th garrote the big ones from subt bugs out?
gusty mirage
you know I've had that 4th one sometimes be empowered and sometimes not be, and garrote w/o subt + SS is a huge energy dump for that risk for me
lapis sundial
You're supposed to do 3 garrotes out of stealth?
Following rotation on the guide has 2 with a rupt in-between
gusty mirage
for multi-tar yeah, 3x garrotes out of stealth
lapis sundial
Ignoring the rupt then?
gusty mirage
just put the rupture on your prio target for multi target
but for ST it's garrote > rupt > garrote
minor garden
For ST with MA and BotE use Blood into Vanish+Finisher after TB within Vendetta
if i dont use MA ?
should i ?
should i wait 30 sec of blood for vendetta on ST too?
ionic crane
What stats do you use if you use 3 SS for azerite traits?
outer lotus
whats the go to way to sim for assa m+? like 40sec 5targets no lust?
or longer duration
wet ruin
I would assume his boss damage was pretty good as well
you can pump alot of damage in that short window with that setup
delicate swan
Is the ravenholdt guide reasonably definitive
strange python
his average garrote cast was 207k damage x)
Is there any way to identify major issues of a rogue mate by looking at the Details! log of his DPS? Mate of mine really struggles in M+, has like 15-20k overall DPS with 452+ item level. Claims to have read guides on Assa and the rotation etc and doesnt really know why the dps is so whack (it's been a week and its not getting better).
I am seeing like a 49% garrote uptime, stuff like that seems like its a major issue, just from siming with raidbots and looking at the suggested damage breakdown
49% garrote uptime?
lethal heart
if you want max boss damage on drestagath
you play vision minor
and idk probably botd major
kinda meme boss af
with timings
strange python
@strange python Yeah
His top damage abilities are his melee hits with 15%, garrote is only 11%
tacit pebble
im gonna have to assume literally everything is wrong
strange python
Meh, thought so.
I guess i redirect him to this https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-battle-for-azeroth-raid-dps/ and tell him to give it another read, or 10
Says raid dps tho, so prolly better to use the m+ icy-veins guide
latent gazelle
outer lotus
on single target with subterfuge and no SS traits, do i only use one garrote from stealth or 2 to pandemic the empowered garrote?
balmy drum
Hi, I have a question about Blood of the EnemyÑ If I apply rupture and envenom and then afterwards use BoE major does the DoT effects act accordingly_
?
strange python
1
coral cove
Rawr
outer lotus
so i'd go garrote > muti to 4+ > rupture > vend > toxic blade > blood?
and then vanish at the end of vendetta to reapply garrote
balmy drum
ty
untold stream
Hey guys, how do you manage the fight on il'gynoth mythic ? My guild is doing the no-dispell strat, so we're all spread evenly, but we're 5 melees (4 melees + pala heal), and I can't drop the purple zones on the ground effectively, especially when I'm targeted 2 or more times. How do you guys do that ?
With distances and melees pulsing just around me and void zones o the floor, I don't have space to hit the boss
tacit pebble
you just zoom to the other side with a warlock portal or sprint and go around to drag the beam straight through the boss
ideally almost none of the beam goes into a spot where anyone could theoretically stand
splashing people is less important than making sure the beam is well placed
quasi pewter
just step to someone on the other side
and stand as close to boss as possible
not max melee
shy dust
Stars sim 
hushed maple
^^
rigid mango
quasi pewter
sell those to a dh
hushed maple
but at which price
untold stream
Ok thanks will try
hushed maple
my capitalist mind tells me 3.5mill
rotund oak
T3 IS is balanced,boomers love crit haste also or what
dusky bronze
shy dust
Get a coral
vocal ginkgo
just get better corruption 4head
rigid mango
Always keep bleeds up
young vessel
im playing this:
so wondering if its worth it
should i change something or its fine?
rigid mango
No real reason to stack NP's like that unless they sim higher for some reason
HoD is great
rigid mango
W/e top gear tells you
arctic tulip
Is having three double dose, really that big of a dps difference? For ST?
honest vessel
it could be? depends on a lot of things. it doesnt sim the best for erryone
best to just top gear urself
crisp dove
Sup guys, I need some help. Just switch from Outlaw to Sin. Having some serious AOE issues. My ST is strong, but my AOE is pathetic. Typically ending the runs with 53k overall DPS in 14-16 level mythics. I'm simming at 71k, and most of the guys I run with are doing about 70-73k...help
strange python
pad squad coming through on first hivemind kill
i feel kinda dirty
but it was fun
rigid mango
Sin is insanely trait dependant and you have 3 good traits
rest are bad, kinda
DD is essentially dead and should defo be HoD
Your chest is just doomed ig could be another TTK there
idk dude your gear is bad for sin go back to outlaw unless you hate it
Because you wont see as good results from playing sin in m+ with that setup :/
crisp dove
I also think my AOE rotation is shit to be honest
What's the main AOE rotation?
I hate the RNG of outlaw to be honest.
rigid mango
Open 3 garrotes, use fok to build and envenom to spend unless you need to apply a rupture to keep up your 4-5 bleed quota to keep staying energy positive
RTB rng isn't as big as you think it is
subtle tundra
but it feels bad.
acoustic bramble
Hey guys. I was checking out some of my sims today when i noticed this. Why does it rupture with (potentially) four combo in the opener? This cannot be right... am i correct here?
acoustic bramble
How so?
acoustic bramble
Because on the opener, if i rupture with 5, then i can cast one last envenom during Vendetta before i have to refresh rupture again
And there is no way to float a CP anyway on the opener
If you get 4 you can garrote - > rupture, if you get 3 you mutilate again
I would like to know what i am doing wrong here so pls help if you have the time :)
rigid mango
Yeah but it's a gain to try to get 2 mut's in the window
What the sim is doing is correct
acoustic bramble
For master assassin?
rigid mango
Yes
Before, the opener was gar mut rup
But it turned out mut rup mut (optimall) or mut mut rup if the first doesn't hit for 4 CP, is better
Thus, that has become the default since ~early EP.
acoustic bramble
I was outlaw then. Hence i am new to assa, my sims are always a bit off from my dps so i am trying to find my mistakes here
Do you have any helpful small or big tips for basic rotation? (lets not go too deep into build etc, i dont want to spend your time)
rigid mango
Use TB on CD
finish on 4+
If u don't need to use your energy rn, save it for a better window later
acoustic bramble
So pooling before TB is good?
rigid mango
Think about downtime and potential bleed targets in transitions
It is, but it's not a big diff.
Pooling in general has been made near obselete by the amount of haste + haste procs + lucid that we have rn
Spoils us to the point of numbing down the usefulness of trying to maximise uptime of buffs such as env/EP
acoustic bramble
I see
rigid mango
The rotation is not at all punishing aslong as you follow the basic guidelines
The gain of minmaxing the buffs and such isn't big at all, and a general oversight into how impactful it is by many.
acoustic bramble
When is it worth applying bleeds? For example the adds on Xanesh die within like 10secs
rigid mango
Rupture isn't bad
acoustic bramble
Is it worth for me to bleed them? Or shall i stay boss?
rigid mango
You've got to distinguish the two to have a big diff
Rupture refunds energy based on amount left on the target
Garrote doesn't
Meaning eveni if you don't get max uptime of rupt you still get something back
Which means it's easy to go positive in damage and harder to go negative, atleast by bigger margins
Garrote and rupture are great to have up for windows such as vendetta/TB to make you fit more GCD's
acoustic bramble
Are the couple ticks worth loseing a potential coral stack on the boss though?
rigid mango
And an easy way to get simple dps gain
Oh yeah
Energy regen is worth a metric fuckton
acoustic bramble
Well yeah but its not free ,you spent it already :P
rigid mango
Yeah, but you will gain more
You are also gaining energy for more mutilates and more finishers later on
Rupture kinda pays for itself
acoustic bramble
I see what you mean
rigid mango
The energy refunds itself in worth, and the only thing you lost was CP in trade for damage
storm perch
Why DD is dead? Some changes tho?
rigid mango
But rupture (granted it ticks for long enough) outdamages envenom if not in TB etc
DD is dead?
Since when?
storm perch
You typed: DD is dead and you should def go HoD
rigid mango
The worst sin trait there is for m+, probably
acoustic bramble
Thanks for the help! :)
rigid mango
NP always here 👍
storm perch
Yep. Was worried smth changed🐸
cosmic prism
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/a1U2ifqifjKSpjXgXdsSjh the game loves giving me socketed carapace weaps 😉
glacial steppe
if open with mut > rup > mut and have 5 cp after garr
do i just continue my opener or use my cps so i dont waste the TB cp
shy dust
Using tb at 5 cp is fine
glacial steppe
and what if i play bote, do i use vision minor so it lines up with vend?
serene osprey
unfortunately that desyncs vanish
strange python
hold bote for vend
spare flame
Speaking of bote, do I always hold for vendetta on fights like ra'den?
tropic ocean
yes
if u want to pad a little bit u hold it a little longer (vendetta too) so u can hit both adds+raden with it while pumping
wanton estuary
i got a pice that have 66 corruption on , what can i do to make it less? havent figured out all of this yet
wanton estuary
its a 450 leggings
shy dust
You can purify a piece of corruption but that removes all the corruption associated with it
rigid mango
Your back gives you a flat amount of corruption decrease on your total equipped corruption
wanton estuary
spawn tentacles which mind flays your target for 16k damage for 10 sewc
rigid mango
Say you were wearing 3 of those 66 piece corruption
wanton estuary
ye
rigid mango
You'd be kinda fucked
rigid mango
That means upgrade your cloak 😄
rigid mango
Dunno, read your cloak
I can't remember what amount that is, that's a very long time ago 😄
wanton estuary
ok
honest vessel
i hate vendetta ing basher tentacle, anyone doing anything else?
rigid mango
Not really, psychus kinda fun ig 
honest vessel
yeh :/
sterile ocean
so i got a question So i was debateing between the Heroic ra-den helm and mythic Maut helm which would be considered better?
i dont have them and i cant sim em since i dont have premium
loud light
surely you can just put the names of the items in the Gear Compare
instead of droptimizer/top gear
put the right ilvl, pick the traits, etc
honest vessel
^
wide delta
do I have nzoth lockout if I kill cararpace?
lean marten
when to use galecallers? my 460 sims higher than some of my 475 trinks
flat wadi
Whats the best approach to start gearing a kidna fresh 120 for m+ as assa? have tried outlaw and watched it alot but doesnt look very inticing to me
harsh sphinx
turban gang
subtle tundra
end me
gusty mirage
@flat wadi run keys for gear, save up residuum for the azerite. The raid has meh traits for m+
if your ilvl is decent enough you can get solid filler azerite pieces from the Emissaries
rigid mango
Bote or botd
Botd is just insane for clearing trash and I don't need bote for bosses so
untold current
is it still worth running if i have 2xss, 2xnp with eng helm?
dont have anything else for head
rigid mango
I just run 450 helm
It's better
You literally only need that insane opening burst for bosses and it carries everything, so does SS for the trash
untold current
I'll farm one from wqs then. I want to try this out
next solar
hmm whats the play for drestagath, ass or outlaw
plain moon
How does cloak work with charged bonds on Ra-den. If im the main bond it stops for everyone but if im a side bond it just stops me from taking damage?
strange python
I mean, you can't really cleave much. BF doesnt hit inside/outside the big Tentacle Clouds, and that's the only place where stuff is Close to each other.
While assa actually gains some value from multidotting