emp prox on trash pulls usually but
#assassination
cobalt pelican
i also just use regular agility sometimes for simplicity
haste/vers generally but mastery is a fine stat too
hoary crown
Read somewhere that around 18% haste is the cap, but it feels really clunky tbh
cobalt pelican
any cap is probably just made up but i 'm not super into pvp so eh
#pvp is prolly a better place to ask about specifics
re: rupture prior to tb https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uVxpHZAip2Qg2HTbnoKxEk, i thought i'd messed something up and it was just margin of error stuff initially but i double checked that the sample has an early refresh
it's just like actually whatever
refreshing in tb is the simplest
cba adding garrote rn but i can't imagine it's much different at all
digital zodiac
trying out subt since its simming higher than MA, do i use imp garrote at max pandemic? and do i use vanish on cd?
cobalt pelican
garrote in the opener, vanish at <5.4 sec on the initial one to refresh it, vanish on cd with a garrote already on the target to renew it to a 23.4 sec empowered
digital zodiac
alright sweet thanks 🙂
pliant heron
if you have SS you let the initial garrote run out before vanishing right?
cobalt pelican
yeah, because you start the fight with 2x garrotes for a full pandemiced empowered garrote
sullen sphinx
quasi pewter
not if your sims dont tell you it is
dim yacht
anyone know the internal cooldown on ring procs from mechagon?
hardy wind
15 seconds
strange python
15sec iirc
dim yacht
seems like the ring dps isnt that great then, thats what, 500dps?
bit more when you take into account crit
dim yacht
mmm, but worth it over 475 rings?
if the mechagon ones are 465
guess ill have to sim
true pelican
rings don't gain much from ilvls
drifting cloud
you can have 99% uptime on the buff
the 15s icd is the same duration as the buff
so theyre alot more than 500 dps
but yes, theyre not good for m+
true pelican
think he was talking about the nature dmg one
drifting cloud
same point, just slightly less dps, still bad for m+ because of all the haste on them
torpid linden
hey
if im using subterfuge, should I apply empowered garrotes during blood of the enemy or before?
quasi pewter
before
true pelican
if the fight will end before you get another vendetta
marble hemlock
@arctic walrus 
arctic walrus
@marble hemlock 😚
marble hemlock
why is life so exhausting
oh, im not in offtopic
mutilate
fok
vendetta
there
no one will ever know
true pelican
@arctic walrus you just lose dmg if you hold blood at the end of the fight though
arctic walrus
Assuming a 6 minute fight, you would only then manage to get 2 bloods inside vendetta window rather than all 4 windows. The spec is very good at compounding cds to edge out your damage inside vendetta
true pelican
in a 6 minute fight
you would blood at 0/2/4/5:30
or whenever your tb window is after 5:30
quasi pewter
he is right in very rare cases ofc you would use blood in last 10 seconds of fight
if vendetta is not up
true pelican
i mean it's not that rare
arctic walrus
Mb bro I misread
true pelican
25% of fights you will be able to do that
torpid linden
can anyone help me see where I went wrong on this fight?
p much my first time using blood of the enemy on il'gnyoth. I ran it thru wowanalyzer and ehhh. I'm the only sin rogue.
Maybe blood of the enemy is only good with double dose? Cause i wasn't using any of those traits.
harsh sphinx
can't deep dive atm but your second vendetta was not great
blood being good because of double dose isn't a thing to answer your last question though. We run blood in M+ with no DD traits (hopefully)
torpid linden
what should I have done differently? Apply garrote before vendetta and bote?
sullen hedge
is assa the go to spec right now?
rigid mango
It's top tier in every type of content
sullen hedge
even better than outlaw in mythic+?
rigid mango
Outlaw is more than fine in raids and also highly potent for m+
It's borderline on outlaw in m+.
sullen hedge
gotcha
thats good then, im good with assa but for whatever reason i can't ever do much as outlaw lol
hallow sonnet
Garrote [T1] Garrote [T2] Garrote [T1] Rupture [T1]. Keep poison and bleeds up with muti on off target
If equal damage matters, like say a 2 mob pull in m+ where they won't live forever. Go for rupture on secondary target first instead
Doesn't change a lot but well
outer acorn
what are the best trinkets for m+?
onyx hedge
First time not using font in raid for around a year. God it feels weird lol
Got a second GW peice and vita in the same run :I Feelsgoodman
outer acorn
i feel like torment is trash for assa
tropic ocean
feel
strange python
What potion should sin rogue use in raids? I am a bit confused
latent gazelle
Whichever sims says
kind edge
I wish they just ban sims
cobalt pelican
lol
plain thistle
why would they ever do that? lol
cobalt pelican
maybe he's a big fan of excel spreadsheets
marble hemlock
Pen and paper @cobalt pelican
cobalt pelican
pens give me exams ptsd pls no
plain thistle
nah, the good and old feelycraft is better 🙂
distant lava
"no an accurate way to know what my character can do and how I can upgrade it 
, I must destroy it"
kind edge
I want everyone to play below optimal and to be debates what is better in a given situation lol
To not know everything
marble hemlock
so
kind edge
And someone will come with some freaky build and wrecks everyone
marble hemlock
you want a debate, but without any factual information as a source of a debate?
kind edge
Facts can be written on an excel spreadsheet
People doing their own research
I'm half joking btw lol
marble hemlock
so instead of a debate it would really only be people talking about their opinions on the topic
kind edge
But yeah it's fun to think about I know that shouldn't happen
The gaming world is different nowadays
It has evolved
plain thistle
"People doing their own research" dont know why, but every time i hear this i think about anti vax and flat earthers 🤔
kind edge
That's the fun thing lol
rancid crow
Hi, for horrific vision, Asa, Outl is better or doesnt matter?
plain thistle
and that was extremly #off-topic
kind edge
Yeah sorry
plain thistle
nah, was talking about my own comment xD
plain thistle
@rancid crow in my opinion assa, because SS is extremly strong there, and good single target for bosses
distant lava
yeah assa with the right traits is definetly waaaaaay better
but if you don'lthave them outlaw is probably better
leaden garden
Is asa stronger than fury, when it comes to raw single target dmg? trying to settle an argument with a friend
subtle tundra
cobalt pelican
probably not
but it's close
surely you could just use shadhar statistics from wcl or something
leaden garden
https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T25_Raid.html should be a decent source of information, no?
cobalt pelican
i'd use real world statistics over sim values if you wanted a real world answer
i'd say it's pretty close on average, with assassination beating it in fights that need 'boss damage', where other mechanics are a thing due to high burst windows and low mechanical requirement
leaden garden
right, valid point. I'll go read logs
glacial steppe
which mechgon ring do i want, dmg from behind or 3 different abilities?
mighty elm
both are good, dmg from behind has a slight better uptime if u can hit from behind
cobalt pelican
it's just waiting f or the 20% threshhold
north cobalt
so for single target, 3x DD, 2x NP, 1 Twist the knife with master assassin sims like 400 dps higher then...
3x DD, 2x NP, and 1 SS with Subt.
am i losing a lot by taking SS and Subt? I just like the opener a TON more with that build.
tropic ocean
blindside is the best first row talent for assa
change my mind
Nameless FairyToday at 4:40 PM
it's just waiting f or the 20% threshhold
no point to hold it longer than the cd is tho
cobalt pelican
?
glacial steppe
@mighty elm mut > garr > rup cant proc it?
cobalt pelican
because it's on cd for 45 seconds of that already
mighty elm
nvm yea, miscalcd , its 1 second from not holding it i assume
should do @glacial steppe , i never got that one so havnt tried myself 😛
glacial steppe
it doesnt, atleast on the target dummy
vestal wren
problem solved already i guess 🙂
mighty elm
ye 
north cobalt
basically should i take 1 shrouded + subt or 1 twist the knife + master assassin?
tropic ocean
north cobalt
i did. but like i said, they are close-ish and i LIKE the SS opener a bit more.
tropic ocean
then you answered your own question
cobalt pelican
options are cast at 3:18, cast at 4:03, or cast at 3:47 cast at 4:02, the 4:02 cast is just delayed by font being cast i guess
seems fine i guess
glacial steppe
are there abilites that do not count towards the 3 different abilites for the mechagon ring? mut > gar > rup somehow doesnt work
glacial steppe
it does in different combinations
cobalt pelican
it doesn't afaik, it'll just be counting the gcd before the mut
so like kick gar mut rupt would work
because mut is discounted
but gar mut rupt would not by itself
if the global before that is rupt, for example, because the 3 would be rupt gar rupt
farming the behind ring is kinda not too bad so
cobalt pelican
never lucky
glacial steppe
but why is that mut is discounted
glacial steppe
i hate my life
cobalt pelican
it still has pretty okay uptime, like it's not like you can never proc it
just looks like it's a pain compared to the 'randomly procs from dots when not even behind the mob' ring with 95%+ uptime
glacial steppe
another 17 runs it is
cunning spire
for visions i just want as many SS as possible?
fading walrus
in keys im running 2x EB / 2x SS . i have a helm 480 with EB / NP etc or 465 helm with SS / Np or HoD / etc
whatr do u guys think
arctic walrus
If you have 2/2 on your shoulders and chest then take the ss hod helm
strange python
@glacial steppe u can proc it before pull
By applying ur poisons and using feint (these 3 count as casts on the same target > you)
Then u get the haste buff immediatly
k since it didnt get answers in general and its a bit assa related
#showtooltip /cast [@mouseover,exists,nodead,mod:ctrl][]Garrote;
should work
but when holding control down, it doesnt garrote my mouseover target
if i remove the mod:ctrl, it works
anyone knows why that is? no other modifier works either
shy axle
how do you use vanish as a cd when going subterfuge without SS in a raid setting ? Gar - X - Gar ?
runic tinsel
how do i use crimson tempest? spam it instead of envenom or only when it needs refreshing? (during AoE ofc)
runic tinsel
ty!
torpid linden
just going back to my problems, I remember in legion with nightstalker, we would vanish 5cp rupture for the (20%? + dam) snapshot, why doesn't that work with vendetta? Just to be sure if it's actually okay to apply empowered garrote b4 vendetta
arctic walrus
I don’t think vendetta would snapshot with nightstalker regardless
And you would want to apply your garrotes if running shrouded/subt before vendetta yes
maiden raptor
on N'zoth at the very start and when you're going into the phase with the psychus do you rupture the tentacles for energy reset or do you guys dont dot them at all? I'm not sure if it's a dps gain to use cp for the energy reset or actually a waste
on heroic tho for now
tropic ocean
if it doesn't live the duration it is normally a dps loss
however, with psychus taking so much increased dmg could potentially be a dps increase to snapshot energy to full and get 1 or 2 more spells in afterwards
(generally I don't touch synapses at all, only in mind gate psychus)
orchid solstice
Hey starting Ra-den prog today and seen that everyone is running BotE major but im still simming higher with WVR - any explanations?
shut garnet
do you ever actually pop cds on adds tho?
maiden raptor
gotcha thanks for the input on n'zoth. i'm honestly kinda struggling to pull off high numbers on n'zoth. are you using any "big" cds on psychus? i'd assume no cause it would be just to pad?
cobalt cloak
does anyone know the crit cap for sin?
torpid linden
prob what people do tbh. 50% extra dam on your vend is huge.
tropic ocean
no cap
shut garnet
the hc strat to get the boss down generally is to save 2 min cds for nzoth yes
cobalt cloak
is there any stat cap?
tropic ocean
no
shut garnet
if you wanna pad, then yeah youd pop vendetta on psychus
around 4ish tentacles if u want it to last full duration
tropic ocean
@maiden raptor only on psychus in mind gate
think I used vendetta on first psychus once to push log but thats it
after u did psychus in mindgate
use coral on nzoth and keep it dotted then in last phase get mced at ~25-20% depending on raid dps
use vendetta coral bote
and pump with 100% dmg buff
maiden raptor
wait mindgate is when half of the raid goes down? like the pyschus that comes later on
tropic ocean
y
maiden raptor
gotcha
maiden raptor
Yeah i'm trying to get the hang of it still. Gonna see next id if i'm able to make good use of your tips
tropic ocean
general raid dps is a high impact in nzoth
e.g. I don't hold vendetta later on I use it when it gets ready on basher tentacle
here u can check mine and see if you want
pretty much same stuff every fight
maiden raptor
Ic. talking bout the tentacles do you dot them and the eyes? i feel like it's worth later on when you're not in the mindgate group but not when everyone is bashing on them
tropic ocean
I dot the corrupter and basher
and dps basher
synapses (the one giving debuff to psychus) I only dps them when my group is down
maiden raptor
gotcha. also thanks for sharing your logs gonna use them for reference on a lot of things
tropic ocean
sure np and good luck on improving
civic hatch
Is it better to just play outlaw for mythic hive mind?
Seems like you pull more dps for way less effort instead or trying to multidot everything while avoiding everything
glacial steppe
do i want to use reaping flames on cd at dresta or snipe 80/20%
tropic ocean
u basically only use it 80% or 20%
and with the amount of adds u can do that pretty much all the time
fathom wyvern
could it be worth on xanesh progress to go vision minor to not have vendetta line up with ads?
tropic ocean
@civic hatch depends on your gear and u dont really multi dot a lot
in begin u multidot
and when ravager spawns
outside that u spam fok and pump into the target you're on
(usually kazir)
I mean you can potentially shadowstep multidot other mob but its not really beneficial
civic hatch
Ye I find I 2target cleave at start then ravaged spawns so I should be 3 target cleaving but I’m kicking kazir so I don’t really have enough focus to triple dot while keeping eye on kick rotation
rancid spade
vita + coral is the new meta??
red plaza
When you have Expedient corruption
tropic ocean
@civic hatch use the weak aura
and make a kick macro for kazir only
so u dont need to target him to kick
drifting cloud
if its 5k you dont have r3 or you simmed wrong
grim mason
maybe the rank
tardy nimbus
got r3 simming 5mins
grim mason
post the sim
tardy nimbus
lez me findz it
ok so i over exaugurated its like 3.5-4k lower
still alot
using the shitty waist thats why ilvl is low
subtle tundra
its 2k lower
tardy nimbus
Not with MA combo
tardy nimbus
and why is subterfuge even higher
subtle tundra
also its comparing it to wv sim 4 allies
tardy nimbus
yh using WV with 4+ people in raid
crimson palm
wv sucks
tardy nimbus
yh i would rather not use it tbh but its what sims higher
i get that some bosses you have to move etc so its not worth
drifting cloud
yeah so dont even sim it
outside of maut/dog if your guild actually has people using it
mine doesnt
tardy nimbus
my sims are super low just need better+higher corruption
crimson palm
what makes u think that ur sim is 'super low'
tardy nimbus
75k is pretty poop
crimson palm
Compared to?
rotund pier
77k at 466 is good
rotund pier
Ah, yea corruption rng is so shitty, bring back tier/only +5 tf and no az grind or dps rng imo
If it makes you feel better I haven’t gotten Cara daggers at all in either difficulty yet
grim mason
I like how everyone just casually have shard of the black empire 😦
Where is my SHARD!!?
thorn falcon
I feel you
tardy nimbus
just spent all my rolls on it until i dropped
grim mason
yeah been trying to do that this weekend, I only pug
jovial vault
you dont have a shard ive got 3 on my rogue 2 with corruption and without
jovial vault
ngl though my first cara kill i looted it and bonused rolled it the same kill
jovial vault
grim mason
bruh ...... rub the salt in moar!
strange python
Can anyone take a look at my maut log?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TbqkzYB4Jmf7pNVv#fight=25&type=damage-done&source=6
edgy pawn
hm
you used coral too late on the 3rd cd set
266 seconds in
i think considering you play very little corruption your logs look good
edgy pawn
looks fine
i think in 1 or 2 tb windows you only got 1 env in
but overall no major mistakes
edgy pawn
ye thats a no no
strange python
Ty for looking 😄
edgy pawn
np
whole mantle
tropic ocean
probably
pliant heron
has anyone else had unbound minor sim high for them lately or is there just something really wrong with my crit?
grim mason
so I just realized I havent seen the bleed corruption....EVER!
harsh sphinx
ya Seli is hording them for himself
echo cargo
I'm not sure if this is just me, or a misrepresentation of how debuffs are listed
but if I have a VoP proc during NP, it seems to extend normally to whatever it should be, like 24s
but if I VoP proc before NP, or it proc's just as I'm hitting the button
it doesn't.
faint harness
you overwrite it
echo cargo
Yikers
faint harness
while procing it extends it
echo cargo
Thanks for the clarification
subtle tundra
seems like a weird thing to say, but does anyone feel like echoing blades bugs sometimes and does lower damage than it should?
like really rarely
deep solstice
hmm, for the first time this tier something is simming better than 3x DD. 3X Heart
harsh sphinx
r1 lucid r2 breath 450 daggers
deep solstice
66k is good numbers for the gear you have / essences
Is there any actual merit to running outlaw for nzoth? most of the good outlaw logs are just psychus pad
latent wraith
Dry on daggers
lusty narwhal
@hushed hill why are you running subterfuge with no SS?
You also have no NP traits and r1 lucid. Fix those and you’ll be on track
lusty narwhal
Interesting, never came across that in my case... maybe because I always had at least one NP
distant cypress
with my gear and 2 x NP traits and no SS, subterfuge sims 3-4% higher than MA
languid sail
how much corruption you guys usually go with for m+?
cobalt pelican
<60, <40 if it's a key you're going to take a pounding
pretty hard to play more when vanish is a dps cooldown
probably doable though
marble hemlock
id never play >40 personally
kidney doesnt always work, space is sometimes limited so even with crippling you cant kite it, and oftentimes you want vanish/blind/cloak for a specific thing in a dungeon so you cant just use it to counter delusions
languid sail
thanks appreciate the insight
sullen hearth
anyone have any resources for analyzing your logs besides WOWanalyzer?
I am my sims are pretty high but i cant consistently hit the numbers im simming
any insight would be appreciated
arctic walrus
the logs themselves would be great
sullen hearth
sorry
let me grab one
here is a decent single target one
I need to learn how to look at things better
arctic walrus
main issue i'm seeing here is consistency within your cds
so you ran clf
first off, change your opener to the updated one in the pins, it sets up your first set of cds better
sullen hearth
ok I was doing that and changed it back
jaunty crystal
unless somethign changed I believe wowanalyzer is out of date and/or broken.
arctic walrus
2nd, your clf comes out 20s into the fight, use it the gcd before vendetta, and if you run blood, it goes before vanish
arctic walrus
try to not refresh bleeds inside tb windows, see you doing it a few times
arctic walrus
don't hold on to tb, but better prep can alleviate the problem
sullen hearth
Ty a ton this is the kind of feedback I have been looking for
arctic walrus
you probably got a mechanic but for one tb you applied it then didn't do anything for it's full duration
your 2nd set of cds, again issues with lining up
you used vendetta then vanish then tb
you want your vanish to be inside your tb window
sullen hearth
ok
arctic walrus
lastly your 3rd set of cds you only used vendetta no vanish or tb
wooden atlas
Writhing Segment bugged..? Seems to not actually hit every nreaby target in range.
faint harness
Havent seen it myself, but it would not surprise me since Blizzard had to hotfix it on Friday
crude topaz
Morning all,
Is there a rough rule for which corruption effect we should use for each Raid boss?
I have Both IS & TA at rank 3. Am i right in thinking anything not completely ST i should go for TA?
Also, is the N'Zoth parse just about padding on the Phychus?
crude topaz
I've been saving Vendetta for N'Zoth :/
drifting cloud
you can definetly get 95 without cding psychus on hc
crude topaz
We didnt down it last night, but i feel i should be doing more DPS - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pcJ97ZWBKGT8rmfw/#fight=34&type=damage-done
cold apex
hey guys, i got a question to crimpson tempest. I have seen on raider.io that many people on high keys play it
but do you even use it in ST ?
because it feels like you never use envenom then
royal lantern
you dont use CT in st
you just use it in aoe too keep the dot up, for st you dont touch it at all
cold apex
ok thx
fluid oriole
Atm im not running any shrouded suffocation traits on my armour - should I run normal mythics to get some SS pieces? Or should I pray for my mythic+ cache? How do I get higher ilvl pieces with these traits
quasi pewter
there is some good pieces from raid aswell
night vale
@fluid oriole depends on what level of mythic + you are running but if I was you I’d just gamble the Titan residuum vendor for 465/450 pieces... they’re cheaper and you should be able to get a couple of EB/SS pieces which will be great for m+
Then long term look to replace them with 480s
fluid oriole
Is it right that azerite doesnt drop from m+ dungs only the cache?
So worth farming azerite pieces to scrap for residuum
night vale
Doesn’t drop from either. Just make sure you do a weekly m+ to qualify for the cache. Then on rest you’ll get currency out of the box which you can use to buy random or specific azerite, at varying costs
delicate fern
@sullen hearth this is my Rotation see if it works out for you - never cap on CP i stick at around 4 unless i can garrotte or toxic blade to bring it to 5 CP - Stealth - mutilate - rupture - mutilate - garrotte if your at 4 cp then toxic blade -vendetta - vanish - World vein essence + envenom - mutilate - envenom - mutilate - envenom - refresh rupture and garrotte at 3 sec left + use toxic blade on cd
rigid mango
Or just follow my opener guide in the pins 🙂
hollow stone
Imagine using your first gcd in vanish to use wv
delicate fern
world vein breaks stealth and it synergizes well with vendetta with the empowered envenoms
delicate fern
it's a waste when i can use in stealth and immediately envenom why it's empowered
nova carbon
You lose a gd not doing dmg
delicate fern
never said world vein would crit you reading a cereal box?
lost horizon
All your GCDs in vanish window should be dmg abilities
You're wasting a gcd
It's like applying a bleed during vanish
shrewd night
Wasting a MA window on an essence on gcd is some wild shit man
lost horizon
Bad value
delicate fern
well they are mutilate and envenoms
lost horizon
No, one is WV
Use WV first
Then vanish
Also
Don't TB first
Vendetta first, WV, THEN tb and vanish
delicate fern
why would i do that when i just toxic blade and vendetta? what the fuck would be the point thats loss of damage
shrewd night
hollow stone
Ook ook
hollow stone
Dont get mad when somebody is trying to help :/
lost horizon
Use vendetta first because its 20sec long
And wv is shorter duration
Like 12 or 16 or something
So vendetta first, then WV, then tb and slam
jovial vault
You WV then vanish your losing a gcd in your MA window
delicate fern
not getting mad lol, im taking advice from someone who had top damage recorded on a dungeon boss fight as assassination
shrewd night
Like.. Idc who it is giving you such advice. But if they are telling you to waste a MA gcd on wv, they are straight up high.
lost horizon
Can you elaborate on that?
delicate fern
not sure what boss it was, but he plays rogue very well, ill give this rotation a whirl later on
hollow stone
I mean, running wv in a dungeon is a whole different problem
lost horizon
I've done it in KR with melee stacking it, wasn't really worth LOL
delicate fern
well he probs run blood of the enemy at the time not sure but thats my rotation for raiding
strange python
there's literally no situation where you use worldvein or vendetta after TB or vanish when running MA
jovial vault
I wouldnt listen to someone on a dungeon boss fight our opener is bursty so yea they'll be high on a dungeon boss
shrewd night
Dude, Ive said my shit. He can be suboptimal now that he has been informed.
delicate fern
@lost horizon ill give that a whirl later the vendetta world vein TB vanish
rigid mango
idk if people think that I like, make a post giving people shit advice on purpose or smth
scarlet urchin
sometimes applying some thinking of your own can help too, like asking yourself the question "why would I use a global that can't crit during a really short buff that I apply specifically to increase my crit chance" 
crimson palm
didn't you guys know that if you use WV during MA window it has chance to crit and double up the agi gain from the buff
cmon it's common knowledge
delicate fern
where did i say that would crit you rock ape?
patent topaz
wasting 2 gcds in a tb as well 🤔
rigid mango
Let's keep the personal stuff to a minimal 🙂
shrewd night
Its implied when you choose to use wv during a 50% crit window 
rigid mango
And idk what fucking metric "top damage recorded on a dungeon boss fight as assassination" is
crimson palm
he plays rogue really well is the real metric cmonBruh 
tender portal
Can anyone tell me if this is good for my gear?
I feel like its pretty low because its almost the same dps as when I raided ep mythic with 433 gear. Or if I can change or improve something like stats.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sh8X83UwRukMP1tr13wPkW
rigid mango
idk there's not much point to try to understand why your bad gear is bad
The only point is to get new gear
tender portal
Well that was a very "helpful" comment...
cobalt pelican
it's pretty hard to give helpful advice beyond that tbh
it's the same dps as when you raided mythic ep cause you're using the same gear
crimson palm
What are you even trying to ask
cobalt pelican
clf got nerfed, so that'd take a chunk off
add a few minor upgrades and you're back where you started
crimson palm
Like why'd you care what your dmg output is at 439 ilvl
shy dust
Why would you care if your dps is good for your gear
You basically have all of last tiers gear
Of course you’re behind and even for EP numbers your kind of behind.
Is that the answer you want?
tender portal
Because I think its weird that my 439 rogue with full rank 3 essences and good trinkets sims worse than my 433 Balance druid with bad trinkets and 3 lvl 1 essences thats why I am asking if Im doing something wrong with my gear
distant lava
yes brah that's what we are telling you
scarlet urchin
also, in your older sims,wasn't the target EP? so you would potentially have benthic gear that was active in sims and is no longer?
distant lava
you are a tier behind
cobalt pelican
'good' trinkets is kinda a stretch with a 415 coral
distant lava
and I wouldn't compare boomy to rogue sims
my boomy sims like 4k higher than my rogue
crimson palm
Comparing apples and oranges
shy dust
Moonkins sim very strongly.
As long as you’re using top gear to sim your best set you should be fine.
strange python
Can anyone take a look at my maut log, would be much appreciated.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TbqkzYB4Jmf7pNVv#fight=25&type=damage-done&source=6
strange python
Anything else?
crimson palm
can't tell for sure but it looks like you're chaining envenoms
let EP expire between 2 finishers
so you get max uptime on it
strange python
I guess when I wait for it to expire I pool?
strange python
doesn't finishers get empowered by EP?
crimson palm
but it doesnt have that big of an impact
yeh but by maximizing uptime on EP you get more bleed/melee dmg
and you'll get the finisher either way as we're not gcd limited
strange python
I guess refresh the EP time then at like 0.1 sec
crimson palm
yeah
crimson palm
you also applied coral 15s in the fight 😄
strange python
probably misclick
pretty sad that my 430 font outsims 460 vita 😦
why did I feint at start wtf
so basically I need to pool for TB?
crimson palm
Yep
And last vendetta trinket usage is suspicious
Seems like font is used too early and coral too late
You want to enter tb window ideally with dots refreshed 4 cp and around 80+ energy
3 envenoms is the goal, 2 is okay-ish
crimson palm
and you could've used coral at the end for the small crit buff 😄
crimson palm
i haven't played font in a while, but I think the delay between vend and font was like 10s?
so you get an overlap as large as possible
strange python
isnt it 14?
crimson palm
don't remember, probably it's ok 😄
distant lava
normally the way you do it is
font comes around at the same time as a TB
you do that TB
when it ends you font
and then you delay vend a lil bit until 2 or 3 gcds before TB comes up
and you should get coral after the blood window
strange python
with blood you use it vend > tb > blood > vanish?
The blood usage that is
since my clf is still simming 1k dps higher :/
faint harness
it was discussed a few weeks ago
in this chat
whether it was a gain to delay blood until after vanish
if you play MA
Cant remember what the conclusion was
strange python
but what I wrote is fine with blood?
faint harness
generally yes
strange python
and with clf you use it the gcd before vendeta?
faint harness
havent used CLF in months, cant remember sorry
faint harness
do you have rank 3 bote?
strange python
yes
faint harness
and its a 1000 dps loss?
faint harness
makes me wonder what kind of gear you've got
strange python
blood sims higher for you?
wary ice
Wait why do you TB before blood?
crimson palm
WV should sim higher than clf regardless
strange python
no one uses WV in my guild
crimson palm
Sim it with 0 allies
rigid mango
You TB before blood because that means you don't waste any of the initial window of blood on a TB instead of mut/env @wary ice
wary ice
That makes sense
I've been blooding first cause it lines up the durations so it felt more right 🤷
narrow comet
so i finnally got my azerite togeter now i see an increase in np x 3, i think i missed that memo
fading walrus
so guys whats the stats prio on keys and raids ?
drifting light
Do you guys still run IS even on fights like mythic raden, drestagath or vexiona? Im chosing between 2x TA+Racing Pulse or 1xIS +1xTA
crimson palm
Mastery and crit for keys
rigid mango
m+ is crit mast, raids is w/e sims best @fading walrus
crimson palm
Whatever sims highest for raid
rigid mango
@drifting light Only fight I'd run IS on is shadhar, wouldn't use it granted I have decent other corruption on all the other fights
Actually on nzoth it's p good just bec of the raw length of the fight.
drifting light
Aight thanks
strange python
@faint harness blood sims 800 lower for me still https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/s2ya7PayYt53pnAu1wR1an
faint harness
ive seen good IS numbers on carapace mythic too
down to RNG; what can you do
but in our carapace kill, the top 5 on boss dmg, 3-4 of them had IS
@strange python i would sim "nightly build" instead of weekly as default, just a minor thing
narrow comet
game seems to think i love EV, about every piece i get dropped has it ..
faint harness
also have you tried simming subt + bote
faint harness
strange
honest vessel
clf can often sim better, but its fight/fight length/burst window dependent on which one u take
blood is more versatile imo and it shows on logs
but u can run either if u want
faint harness
its just strange that the difference is that big
faint harness
do you have a lot of haste
crimson palm
I've 22% haste and it sims lower so it's probably not that
rigid mango
CLF should outsim blood for most cases afaik.
It's still better numerically for most just not as versatile and you can easily lose casts because of 3 min timer and such.
marsh heath
I like using blood with vop minor so it lines up nicely
strange python
I use blood + vop on wrathion ^^
faint harness
CLF is not a gain for me
crimson palm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9oVGvgptd6s9kpZs2HGBuk (not the optimal setup geared atm, but regardless)
-500 dps
faint harness
filthy bracers
cobalt pelican
how do you still have iris 1 in current year
crimson palm
iris 1?
narrow comet
i like those bracers 😛
3 x np + vop is not better for me. Did i miss something on that?
crimson palm
I spent all my luck on those bracers, been getting trinkets for 3 weeks in a row in chest now XD
not worth
faint harness
been getting shit from the weekly chest too
aint nobody giving me GW items to compensate
narrow comet
GW does not do that much when i look at my logs
crimson palm
We've time until September, It's gonna happen
rigid mango
Not about raw damage Rootz, it's about corruption efficiency
It's still the best for dps/corr, just not insane dps per item.
faint harness
add 5 GWs and it will top ur dmg consistently
narrow comet
aye only 15
crimson palm
If we only had some bad luck protection against getting the same corruption on the same slot >.<
narrow comet
Can someone explain what is up with 3 x np and vop i see on top logs showing up, i got some double pieces so i could swap them in but it does not sim better for me
crimson palm
Minor is good on some bosses
faint harness
just sims the best for some ppl
narrow comet
there must be some syngery with some gear than or corruptions, i dig a bit deeper
crimson palm
high mastery -> loads of dot dmg -> 3xnp = big dot dmg
narrow comet
Hmm i swap some gear around and sim again. cheers guys
marsh heath
hmm simming 3x np with vop major is showing about 1.4k increase
narrow comet
I lost 450 wich is nothing but i can swap some better gear pieces in with mastery, checking if it makes a difference.
rich patrol
Is Blightborne Infusion really as good as my sim says it is. The sim wants me to use it and TtK on dungeons, and it and DD for single target, over a piece that is 15 ilvl higher. The dungeon setup it gave me has only 1 EB, 0 SS, and 0 NP. Blightborne seems to be the common factor that has it go to the lower piece every time, but i cant find anything online talking about how much better it is than anything else.
marsh heath
It's a good chunk of crit when it procs so yea
white wyvern
You can't sim dungeons.
rich patrol
Is the raidbots dungeon slice not reliable?
white wyvern
very no
rich patrol
Fair enough.
I will give that a try, I have been parsing very well with the lower ilvl Blightborne piece, just wanted to ask around about it. Kinda annoying having higher ilvl in my bags that dont help
white wyvern
welcome to BfA
rich patrol
Running the sim that way is now telling me that the lower ilvl piece is better even without Blightborne
And still no NP
marsh heath
For mythic drest'gath should I stick with 3x np 2x dd with vop major or you guys think better off going back to 3x dd and taking breath major can't decide atm
vast forum
bote major is pretty good for drest
breath is also pretty good
i wouldn't rely on vop major tbh
jaunty arrow
breath major with symbiotic is kinda cool if few ppl play symbiotic too
wind falcon
is the engineering helm good for sin?
cobalt pelican
it's ok
rigid mango
y
wind falcon
curious if it's worth leveling up eng in order to get it. im only at 460 ilvl
crimson palm
It's the best if you don't raid mythic
wind falcon
ty, i don't raid mythic
royal lantern
the only head piece thats better is raden mythic head
strange python
pvp head is also better and pretty easy to get
well, pretty easy to have a shot at rnging it or getting it over time at least
crimson palm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uKfCtMFnXhH3d4ftodyteC anyone sees an easy upgrade?
vast forum
try 4 WV allies and WV major 😄
i also personally sim higher with deadly/masterful navigation so try different enchant combos
maiden raptor
what bout mythic maut? isn't that one better aswell compared to the engi head
vast forum
it is
small radish
@crimson palm go master assassin 
crude topaz
Can someone help me sim please??
I finally got Coral today but still cant get the same sims as you guys!!
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tdYprN4gCxa9sGEyEX5Pg2
wooden island
Hi. new here decided to main rogue and thus I am here to learn to assassinate things.
Looking around I notice there's 2 builds. Single target and AoE, is just to choose which one I prefer to go for? Or is any of them better to go for than the other?
maiden raptor
depends on the fight, situation and content you're doing @wooden island
wooden island
Well main focus will most likely be raid/PvE with some occasional 2v2.
Still if I build single target. Am I expected to leave raid to go reforge because next boss fight will be AoE focused?
wooden island
The stats are different too wether I go single target or AoE...
white wyvern
You will not need to reforge for different boss fights. Sin ST is always welcome in raid.
maiden raptor
well that's sin for ya
white wyvern
You will need to reforge for raid and PvP though.
wooden island
Yeah well I'm going for ST then. The spec was never made for AoE anyway.
white wyvern
🤔
Sin can pump AOE.
hallow kraken
what pots you guys use for m+ trash pulls?
white wyvern
Proximity for like 3+ IIRC
hallow kraken
i know we go crit/mast for m+ but should we go with crit or mast for food/enchants?
wooden island
As for Azerite traits. How many of like double dose and nothing personal do I want?
3 of both or?
shy dust
Sim whats Best.
vast forum
i sim best with 0 NP 🙂
wet ruin
is there a WA to target the person linked with you on n'zoth
halcyon zealot
just got my second H carapace dagger, running 2 r2 MF daggers now and a severe II at 33 corruption
have a 460 socket r2 MF ring im tempted to run up to 53 this weeks reclear and run 3x R2 MF lol
deep meteor
Hi, if subterfuge sims higher in ST w/o SS should i stick with it? if yes what would be the opener?
cobalt pelican
probably, and it's the same as the old opener if you've played more than a couple patches, g m(4) r vend tb bote whatever
maiden raptor
pretty sure there is one in the guide nvm that
cobalt pelican
some people choose to mut before vend+tb, but it's a negligible change
deep meteor
alright thanks !
wary ice
EB procs dont trigger Deadly poison do they?
viscid lichen
cause I got dots up on like 3 targets
or is it better
to just hit one
and dot only if another is close
inner sonnet
Anyone use 3xSS 3xNP gear on visions elites and bosses? Just wondering what it’s like to watch high health enemies melt
honest vessel
you dont spend too much time multi dotting on drest prog. I'd stick to ST
killing tentacles and dumping into boss is what matters most
theres like one part with two eyes next to a tentacle and you can dot all three, but no, its not worth going high mastery unless thats what ur gear wants you to do
edgy pawn
3ss 3np is godmode in visions 😄
when the mage boss ports away i just watch him die
fun stuf
f
manic cairn
short question: is the mindflay corruption good for ST or AOE?^^
vital haven
@edgy pawn dude i have that same setup its so fukcing hilarious
just wathicng those bosses melt
i use exsang as well which makes it even stronget
echo cargo
mindflay isn't bad for AoE
you'd be better off stacking TD / Strikethrough / Crit but it still does quite a bit
wind falcon
my T3 TD is on a 430 dagger. is it still worth using over like a 460 dagger?
turbid osprey
If I have no good aoe corruptions, and I was considering playing sin on hive mind mythic instead of outlaw, is there a different azerite trait setup to the usual I’d want to run? Maybe for blasting the ravagers? 30 wipes of poo poo pirate dps tonight making me want to run away lol
Do I want scents for example?
Or is it ok to just run full single target, multidot bosses and pop cds on ravagers
vapid terrace
My dps was not good on hivemind, but I focused on ST for ravager and drones. We had enough burst aoe classes for it to not be necessary
turbid osprey
Just thinking DD is not so good on the fight, so maybe I can swap it out for that one idk
If there’s no particular traits that are super important though I’ll just go full ST and see how it goes
buoyant lance
TD sims higher than it should tbf cos your not always in a position for the beam to go where you want or when you want
sonic rapids
has anyone simmed the damage difference for syncing up vanish garrote (subt talented) with vendetta versus just both on CD? assuming fight length 5ish minutes so you dont lose any vendettas by delaying
vapid terrace
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
vapid terrace
is there anything we can use on shad'har adds? to move
honest vessel
c&s major 🙂
drifting cloud
crisp hollow
should I be looking to stack a shitload of expedient
as in can I expect a diminishing return eventually
crisp hollow
im asking more theoretically than anything
guess i'd gear compare in 12% increments to get an idea
of any type of cap
cobalt pelican
there's not really an observable cap to it in sim as far as i know, it does become more difficult to play the more you have of it though, and more punishing for downtime
strange python
haste should be 20% right
drifting cloud
theres no magic haste number
strange python
ya I read somewhere that 20% gives u like optimal haste regen w venomous wounds et cetera
and that going over 20% wont give u much
drifting cloud
nope
drifting cloud
just follow top gear
strange python
aight will do thx
plain thistle
@strange python you probably heard that from a pvp player
supple pelican
Wtf is this VOP major build i'm seeing 
short token
just got my first GW piece, it's simming super low, i was under the impression that PPC it's one of the best corruptions for single target?
strange python
show sim
short token
if you look it's below my currently equipped
ignore the top ones...that's with fuck ton of corruption
strange python
what slot is gw on
strange python
you're comparing it to IS
short token
well i just had IS in the sim...what i'm really comparing it too is the combination of rings...so basically i'd drop 5 corruption but lose 211 dps
*to
better yet let me just run another sime w/out the IS
short token
i hear you, the sims can't accurately account for the stability vs. other corruptions?
short token
yeah
i guess on the single target fights i shouldn't get a ton of spawns
but on maut and stuff i feel like 58 corrup would destroy me
short token
damn really?
did they nerf it?
i'm gonna test it out this week see what happens
also, does IS damage not appear on training dummieS?
strange python
it does not
short token
wow, ok, good to know
rocky holly
yooo whats the deal with CLF vs. BoE? CLF sims for like 800 dps more but most rogues are taking BoE? is it largely based on fight duration?
drifting cloud
I dont think it sims 800 more for most rogues
even for me with IS its only like 100
fallow otter
@rocky holly bote sims higher for me
woven summit
What spec you guys prefer for visions? Regular m+ spec?
woven summit
Sounds nice
primal turret
i play the same but with 1 trait of EB
green rivet
hey can we send clips here ?
strange python
of what
green rivet
Streamer assa opener
strange python
why
green rivet
i cant explain it xD
green rivet
is it allowed to share the clip ?
strange python
ive seen people share clips
crimson palm
why are u not checking pinned messages
strange python
the pins have m+ opener
subtle tundra
musclebrah 🤮
scarlet basin
exang a target without garrote KEKW
finite vortex
green rivet
@crimson palm Thanks did not notice
finite vortex
hype in the chat
balmy condor
fucking 40k hype in the chat lets go
rocky ruin
musclebrah and rogues hahahaha
winter moss
if you ever feel longing for information about rogue stuff id recommend to do a quick google search or ask here before going to muskel
steep obsidian
someone gifted me a sub to thta guy when i was watching him for like 10 mins and i didn't even notice till like 3 weeks later
green rivet
isn't he multi r1 ?
steep obsidian
im sure he would let you know
rocky ruin
didnt he play high keys or what he called them in s2. Escaped to classic and then return just to play viewer keys?
and another thing is raidbots down?
young portal
He used to run mdi back in the day, his reasoning for stopping I believe was "his stream suffered too much during practice/downtime" he then played classic when it hit and now he just boosts keys. Would definitely explore other options like here before trusting anything he says. Absolute clown
rocky ruin
His yelling in his stream is so annyoing
steep obsidian
can anyone explain to me why you would chose to play sin on M Raden specifically? seems there is a decent spread of sin and outlaw logs on wcl so i guess it just depends what works better for the group?
i have good azurite and weaps for both
subtle tundra
sin = priority damage
this raid is full of padding potential when only priority damage matters
steep obsidian
yeah but everything needs to die tho orbs included
it probably doesnt matter that much this late in the tier i might just end up playing both
subtle tundra
you usually have enough range to kill orbs
steep obsidian
yeh
subtle tundra
and you'd rather kill one of the adds faster than spreading damage
subtle tundra
imma try vision minor + subterfuge on tonights reclear
subtle tundra
its more so i can use vendetta on a different timing
idk if its a good timing tho
and vanish triple garrote add
one on each + boss
swift sparrow
steep obsidian
i wish i had enough good gearsets that redoing azurite doesnt get insane cost real quick
ruby oar
Hello guys i Saw someone talking about a new build around 3x NT? This os viable?
scarlet sequoia
whats NT bro
ruby oar
Nothing Personal
scarlet sequoia
thats NP
and to answer your question
it sims higher for some people
but its not really very good on any fights except fights where infinite stars also happens to be good
so about 3 bosses
patent topaz
my higest simming setup is vop major with 2 np 3 dd 1 gizmo
it comfy to play on HC but I cant speak for the viability and timings in mythic
probably decent on wrathion, maybe ilgy
edgy pawn
does vision procc on your target or is it random like IS?
scarlet sequoia
on target
ruby oar
hmm thanks for the help guys
sleek spear
Hey guys, what is a good Essence build for 5 masks solo visions? This week would be Orgrimmar
cobalt pelican
bote iris lucid breath or something
crimson palm
whatever you feel comfortable with I guess
scarlet urchin
I really like purification protocol major in visions, rexxar can be one of the scarier bosses imo and with PP major it's just a non-issue, as is Thrall in the end
inner sonnet
rexxar i just burn, blind the first add and cloak the last few seconds of the fight, it goes quick
if you can line it up with gift even better
crimson palm
blinding the headbutt add makes the last pack much easier though
i haven't tried, but you can probably skip him all together if you can kill rexxar <60s
hollow stone
Wait, you mean to say theres more than one way to full clear a vision?!?!! 
inner sonnet
@crimson palm that can be a combat trap tho, anyone running SS will have to use vanish to utilise it
inner sonnet
raiding on my shaman at the moment and the best thing to do on that is skip the whole zone and get up to the back of rexxar's building, been meaning to try that zone skip on my rogue
crimson palm
the two elites are free sanity tho
inner sonnet
you still have to kill misha
just ez skip the rest, whole area done in 2 mins
that's for cloak runs tho, for momentos obv have to clear
maiden raptor
So are you guys running a specific build for tyrannical aka a next id? Since i finally got my hands on more decent azerite pieces i can join the club of running specific builds for a specific affix. I thought maybe 3ss/3np? or 2ss/2np/1ttk with engi head
terse orchid
on tyr i run 3ss/1HOD/NP/EB
maiden raptor
i assume the standard m+ essence combo?
terse orchid
well it depends, on fortified i run either 3ss/3EB or 3SS/2EB/1HOD
but if you have a group with solid AoE you could go 3ss/3NP on tyrannical
maiden raptor
yea i figured. Kinda thinking if it's worth using vision anywhere if you run 3np or if the standard Bote/c&s/lucid/botd is still king
terse orchid
plenty of the top rogues run vision depending on the dungeon
it's personal preference and how much faith you have in avoiding unnecessary damage
maiden raptor
Wait vision instead of botd?
maiden raptor
it is for sure
terse orchid
BOTD and Lucid dreams minor are basically a given
maiden raptor
now i'm kinda in the mood to try vision + 3np im m+
undone cipher
Guys, which is the best moment to cast bote intomrotation?
undone cipher
Ok ty
honest vessel
u want to tb and then blood and then vanish with MA build @undone cipher
move vanish elsewhere if subt
well, on cooldown, dont hold it
tropic ocean
Always vision
Vendetta cdr and free vanish hard carrying hard mobs
- 2x vendetta on boss
even in fortified
undone cipher
@honest vessel tb - bote - - vanish - garrote - envenom isn it?
honest vessel
in the opener with subt you vanish after the bote window, since you're refreshing for full pandemic, and after that just vanish on cd.
fading wigeon
If using subt do you use bote at the same point?
maiden raptor
wait what do you mean with free vanish? and are you running vision over c&s? assuming your awnser was towards my question @tropic ocean
honest vessel
and just vanish-garrote asap (wait for pandemic in opener)
fading wigeon
Perfect thanks
tropic ocean
@maiden raptor yes I do in pretty much all keys
honest vessel
👍
tropic ocean
free vanish as in u can use vanish whenever
as in when u start a boss fight ull only use vanish with 2nd vendetta so it doesnt matter if its on cd when u start the fight meaning u can just use it on trash etc without thinking about it
maiden raptor
Ic. Do you just redo the opener when vanish and 2nd vandetta come up?
tropic ocean
pretty much
vanish garrote rupture garrote- vendetta coral tb bote pump
(skip rupture part if its already refreshed)
next solar
so who here hasn't gotteen jack shit for corruption lol
inland escarp
<-
maiden raptor
i really gotta learn who to use coral in m+ more effective
tropic ocean
on cd
next solar
double trinkets onmy mage and double t1 void ritual on my rogue
tropic ocean
just use it on any trash mob
when it dies reapply asap to next trash mob
on boss use on pull extract with 2nd vendetta
maiden raptor
so you basically use the buff from the previous trash pack?
and let it stack for the next trash
tropic ocean
no
when a mob dies with coral on it
u instantly get the crit
and no cd so u can have the buff active while stacking new buff on next mob
tropic ocean
yep
maiden raptor
thanks as allways
tropic ocean
np mate
maiden raptor
what are you running as second trinket?
ionic crane
Is it require to have like 1 Nothing Personal and 1 Enveom? My SIMS tell me to run Double Dose and Heart of Darkness.
cobalt pelican
no traits are required for assassination in raid
hollow junco
it has generally been the case in the past that running at least one NP trait gave the best sim results, but especially with corruption as a new damage source this won't always be true going forward so don't assume you need to. Sim it to find out.