rank 1 twilight dev was 35% of my damage 
#assassination
gusty mirage
frigid briar
Monk tank im my guild has rank 1 mythic carapace dps. Lemme check what his dps was
ocean ore
tank of my core have t2 or 3
hollow bridge
oh hi infexious gaming! i love your videos
ocean ore
he does 60k dps hivemind mytic
gusty mirage
that's nuts lol
ocean ore
td was something like 50% he's damage omegalul
hollow bridge
rofl
frigid briar
shy axle
will a T3 TA do the same dmg like one T2 + t1?
ocean ore
if the ilvl is the same, t2 + t1 = t3
shy axle
good to know regarding the ilvl, thanks
ocean ore
ilvl of damage corruption always change the damage done
subtle tundra
t2+t1 != t3 twisted appendage
t3 = 66 corruption
t2= 35
t1 = 10
t2 + t2 will be slightly better than t3
but t2 + t1 will be worse than t3
assuming they are all same ilvl
lean marten
muted heart
Would 3 np 2 ss work for nuking bosses and elites in visions?
white wyvern
Yes.
undone cipher
Guys, on m+, are u playing with bote major even if it sims like 4k less than focused iris?
undone cipher
I was playing outlaw since last week so i had this doubt
On outlaw i was playing bote too
muted heart
Shhh or you will kick start the bote Vs iris argument lol
vivid dune
!iris
undone cipher
Xdd , no more questions ๐
autumn girder
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iCzaPTJJdvhQTjkJvW9wJM
Sim sample log good?
Especially bote single usage, vendetta single and vanish single usage
undone cipher
Another doubt is if I have 2x scent of blood and 1xshrouded suff. ; on m+, are u applying gorrote and rupture to as many mobs as u can or how to do it the best way?
desert ether
So decided to shelf my geared warlock and go rogue the rest of this hideous expansion. Come Shadowlands I think I am going to make my rogue main
subtle tundra
you dont play scent of blood
ocean ore
@autumn girder is this Twilight devastation t1 your best belt? dont have anyone simming better?
autumn girder
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/28VVb88qT2sz6V9zdWj5GS
Thats the top gear sim
ocean ore
try to sim conflict over vop
autumn girder
i did sim conflict with vop
subtle tundra
uhh 7 min sim?
autumn girder
5min better?
ocean ore
much better
autumn girder
ah because 2 of my guildmembers simming 7 minutes thats why i chose that too
ocean ore
you have 2 np, maybe thats why your vop simc better
if your boss fight have 7 minutes duration, keep it
if not, try to use the real simc, thats my pov
haha
autumn girder
๐ but if its vop > conflict i just use my cds alone right?
subtle tundra
considering the difference is 300 dps you can just play whichever you like
night vale
Missed the chat about it earlier but my Tier 2 TA displays excatly half the tooltip dmg of my Tier 3 TA (same ilvl)
So doesnt T2+T2 = T3 ?
hoary crown
is it really worth gambling for gorak tuls? got 6,4k atm the only other upgrade I can get is tentacle laced which is 0,5% compared to goraks 1%
autumn girder
ok ty ๐
strange python
fark ppl giving some shitty advice, just catching up on chat
run more corruption, upto 59, makes you a better player
paper relic
Is it worth to run sin in 16-17 keys without EB? I can get 3x SS but I have no EB/SS pieces at all. I would have to run 2xSS, EB/Scent of blood on another. I feel I suck at outlaw because I hate it, but I can't get the pieces I want for assasination :x
strange python
like weight training in dbz
ocean ore
xd
subtle tundra
comparing weight training to wow 
strange python
just run triple SS+combination of twist with 1 NP
white wyvern
@paper relic 1 EB is not worth. I have been running pretty scuffed traits (2 SS, 1 NP, then random other shit) and still pulling 70k-80k DPS depending on dungeon.
strange python
ahh twitch emotes
subtle tundra
ok you're one of those
strange python
what, good players?
paper relic
Alright I'll try that. Thanks
paper relic
@white wyvern are you running PB or CT? I guess it depends on dungeon, but last time I tried CT I didn't hate it at all
supple monolith
do you guys know the wa/addon thats shows you witch pots are good for the visions?
white wyvern
CT this week except in KR and SoB.
paper relic
What changes in those? Less movement?
white wyvern
SoB most packs have like 1 or 2 prio targets then the rest are low health so CT not worth.
KR there is just too much emphasis on bosses and prio damage is important.
paper relic
Makes sense, thanks for the answers
spring topaz
Offf can't really decide i got this gear atm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mX1vymJgExgjrc5Xx4jHn3
but for 600k i can buy some 460boots with stars rank2 just for playing around
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tJXed8X2D74cvSqFQAmzD6 any opinions?
subtle tundra
dont buy IS
hollow junco
leaning on infinite stars as your output-enabling corruption is something you're forced into, not something you aspire towards
distant cypress
yyyyyyy
distant cypress
thanks Kira
faint harness
congratulations
throw some aoe corruptions my way will ya
havent seen a single TD since 8.3 start
honest vessel
i saw a drest ring get GW on it with a socket. it was insane
didnt get it tho lol
bm hunter snatched it up
zinc coyote
Noob question here, what do you guys use to see the title of the corruption before the description? Also shows those %s by the stats?
whole cypress
Corruption tool tips addon
zinc coyote
Tyty
marble hemlock
๐
marble hemlock
mmmh
winter moss
lean path
Gemhide or Vampiric speed, if I have to choose?
vast forum
for what content?
lean path
M+
vast forum
vamp speed
lean path
And sometimes a lil bit of w-pvp.
honest vessel
vamp speed is sick
shrewd iron
Do I hold second vendetta for vanish to come back up if I play subterfuge?
distant cypress
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/c9tkaKgSjbbpux8KEoLhQ3 sigh sims want me to purify my TD III from weekly
red plaza
Well TD was never that good for ST patchwerk
peak juniper
How is outlaw viewed as the better m+ spec? I put together an outlaw set even with the top simming azerite traits for it and its single target dps is like 10-15k lower than my sin st, and it's cleave is like borderline equal if not lower than my sin's garrote ss build
gusty mirage
because vanish isn't a dps cooldown, you don't really need to open from stealth so chaining becomes easier, blade flurry makes explosives a joke w/o losing any dps at all on your target, gouge + a ranged kidney shot
if you gear it right, your ST damage won't be 10k-15k lower than an assa m+ build
peak juniper
just feel like that requires a heavy investment into outlaw then though
most m+ grps i been in too don't chain so fast that im not able to get a stealth in
balmy dome
Not to mention if you're doing higher keys, your garrote build won't even come close when you start doing 6+ mob pulls
red plaza
What investment? Get one wits, and then fill the rest with dead shot and ace and youโre golden for every affix/dungeon
gusty mirage
gearing outlaw is stupidly easy this tier because all the raid gear has the traits you'd need for m+
peak juniper
i have tohse yet was only doing like 40k st
where as assass i push like 50-60k
and thats with my m+ build
gusty mirage
I don't know enough about outlaw to really know what could be causing that, but I'd assume it has something to do with the rtb logic
balmy dome
that and holding BTE when you shouldn't etc.
peak juniper
BTE?
balmy dome
it's normally one of 3 things, holding BTE when you shouldn't, managing deadshot procs, and reroll logic.
between the eyes
red plaza
Probably log a few dungeons in outlaw and assassin and post em in the channels
peak juniper
should reroll always to get 2+ buffs unless u get shark buff right
balmy dome
Basically. But check outlaw pins.
gusty mirage
I believe if you're running 3x deadshot one broadside is fine
balmy dome
Especially if youโre stacking dead shot.
brisk forge
is stars better in fights than sims? cuz another combo of corr is simming 1k better but i got a 430 r2 stars today
undone cipher
It scales with the ilvl
rigid mango
And no, it's even worse in fights than it sims ๐
undone cipher
@gusty mirage maybe dont 10-15k but 5k at least for sure
I was outlaw but in st is so hard to sim more than assa
honest vessel
their dmg are v close, sometimes one will pull ahead. the nature of m+ is diverse pulls. outlaw is considered better for its utility. Gouge, BTE + prey on the weak, leech ffom buff sometimes, hook > step, shorter cd on hook and sprint, ranged melee, little difference between st and mt builds, better cd for packs, riposte is slightly better evasion
vast forum
riposte isn't better than evasion tho
there are attacks you can dodge but not parry
but not the other way around
honest vessel
but riposte does that DMG
faint harness
big dmg
honest vessel
but i didnt now that, what can u dodge without parrying?
vast forum
that's not very important compared to being able to evasion the axe on 3rd boss KR or the shot on korgus
honest vessel
ur right those r nuts
vast forum
generally ranged attacks can be dodged but not parried
you can't parry random shots from "archer" mobs usually but you can dodge them
distant lava
I mean the other head is shit
fathom wyvern
true
fathom wyvern
my azerites sucks ass
high nacelle
480 EB SS, 480 SS TTK, 475 SS HoD vs 480 EB SS, 450 EB HoD, 475 SS HoD; for this week?
the 480 EB can be a NP
tacit pebble
i'd do the first one
high nacelle
ilvl is big but 1 EB seems lack lustre
strange python
3 ss is hugelier than 3 eb i think
high nacelle
and 3 SS 0 EB 1 NP bigger than 3 SS 1EB or 2SS 2EB then?
high nacelle
ok
strange python
@high nacelle what did you decide on?
high nacelle
less than 1% in it, going to try various durations
high nacelle
on Tyrannical it was a no brainer
just sucks not having access to more than one EB atm
when would we FoK with 0 EB?
gusty mirage
I believe it's 4 or more mobs
white wyvern
still finish tho
whole mantle
I do not know, but I think that in a smaller fight, will use 1 CLF should be better BoTE?
cobalt pelican
if the fight is <1min30 yea
honest vessel
2x bote >>> 1x clf
cobalt pelican
eh, not always
tacit pebble
your bote is also losing value because of master assassin vs subterfuge
overcapping on crit during bote window with MA
cobalt pelican
in the majority of gear setups i've seen clf edges bote at most fight lengths but bote has some real world benefits, like on demand burst, more flexible timing wise, FREE instant aoe in some situations
whole mantle
make sense
tacit pebble
with subterfuge talented its a much more normal 300ish dps difference between clf and bote
cobalt pelican
even the people who have bote simming the highest it's rarely by much
honest vessel
wow im surprised
tacit pebble
yea, the other benefits from bote make it worth the 300ish sim loss for most
whole mantle
Top gear tell me to change some itens for versa itens but i loss a lot o critical :/
i'm with 1535 now
with the top gear 1010
idk if worth it hahaha
lethal heart
also big weakness about c lf is 3 minute cds arent greatest
i dont thnik anyone has 3 minute cds anymore at this point
every 3 minute class plays vision
boomkins/warlocks
sub i guess doesnt but its not even a spec
shy axle
which trinkets are you using for 5maskruns with 3 ss/3Np and exang? Read something about the mechagon with beam + font (?)
lethal heart
can play cyclotronic
bike/drestagath i guess
plumage can be ok
spyglass/dice is ok
just w/e makes you kill bosses faster
3ss carries trash alone
grizzled panther
whats reasonable corruption for raid and mythic+ ?
celest crescent
does assa mastery work with gushing wound bleed?
tropic ocean
raid usually <40, or <60 for farm
m+ depending on key height and ur confidence
I run 15s with ~80~90
whole mantle
@undone cipher Weapon ilvl will increase a lot of your damage
tropic ocean
90*
undone cipher
any other thing to look for?
undone cipher
@whole mantle rng hates me xD
chilly marsh
i've never been so mad in my life ever when i had 1% wipe on mythic argus
mage tower is cancerous.
potent raft
i'll ask again - for m+
with 3x ss + 2x eb . what is best for the last trait - NP or HoD
rigid mango
HoD.
potent raft
ty
deep wedge
which t4 talent would you rather use on maut ?
chilly marsh
leach helps
scarlet swift
I just stick with cheat ๐คท๐ปโโ๏ธ
turbid osprey
ineffable truth any good?
white wyvern
PvE, no.
whole mantle
bis for pala heal xd
peak jungle
Regarding M+, raidbots is telling me to go for double dose and scent of blood. I'm assuming the top two traits for M+ would be SS and echo?
running subter, garrote and then FoK spam?
latent gazelle
p much
scenic nacelle
mindflay prob the most inconsistent of the corruptions but when it procs it pops off
hoary crown
Tips and trix for ra den M?
odd heath
@hoary crown you can feint solo Void Collapse now after the nerf. Cloak immunes it.
small island
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Pcn2JRh1MxQB6DCK/#fight=12&type=damage-done&source=30 if u wanna see giga TA on maut
distant cypress
Which is better for raiding, Twisted Appendage II on dagger or purifying it and taking Twillight Devastation III on waist?
sterile ocean
Twisted Appendage on dagger
tropic ocean
@small island ???????
vital haven
with subterfuge how you use your second set of cooldowns
do you hold vendetta and the essence for when toxic blade comes off cd and do you also wait for the second vanish to come off cd as well?
agile oar
Hey guys on 4+ add pull with crimson tempets taleneted what should i open with 3 garrot rupture or 3 g tempest?
vital haven
@agile oar look at the pins and scroll down a little bit
agile oar
wait theres a pin for that
vital haven
m+ aoe openers
agile oar
thanks @vital haven
vital haven
np
small island
@tropic ocean are u jealous of my rank 5 ta?
tacit pebble
@vital haven I'd recommend doing a quick sim and looking at how the apl handles it
small island
is it not big? i thought 101 corruption TA would do more dmg than a single gushing wound
small island
ye i wasent being serious, game is total garbage
tropic ocean
oh sorry then
hollow stone
glacial steppe
can we cloak vexiona stacks?
distant cypress
meanwhile from vision
hollow stone
Rip
distant cypress
lofty belfry
there is no bis ?
distant cypress
there is no such thing as bis this expansion pretty much except gushing wound corruption. The more you gear up the more your stat weights are going to change, your bis essences for that moment etc, it shifts so much you pretty much sim daily
this expansion should've been called simcraft of azeroth
lofty belfry
i can only sim my stats, how should i sim for other things ?
hollow stone
Clf, wv, bote, botd all have usage for raid majors
I may have missed one...
Lucid, botd, flame, iris, even pp all have usage as minors
Oh and vop. Vop has some usage too
cerulean walrus
red plaza
Happy farming! ๐
fading walrus
so now i have 3x DD / 2 HoD / 1 NP and 3 overwhelming power
is my ST good to go ;p ?
fading walrus
ty ty
ashen osprey
in M+ having 1 EB, would it be better to get 3rd SS or 2nd EB
tropic ocean
3rd ss
slender sandal
is 3ss3eb better then 3ss3HoD
tropic ocean
depends on affix dungeon
this week for sure with few exceptions like kings rest or siege
high mantle
Simming infinite stars seems like its so good, but in every fight in the new raid it feels like hot garbage when it procs on adds i havent touched or even proccing and breaking my blind on grand delusions... Anyone else feel the shitty rng of infinite stars?
drifting cloud
well depends how much higher it sims than your other stuff
is it 2k, id wear the other stuff
is it like 6k like for me
Im wearing IS
even when it doesnt do that good its still decent, but yes depends on the fight
frigid briar
Only fight Id say Infinite stars isnt the best (rank 4 475itmlvl) is hivemind and Nzoth
high mantle
even M Drest'agath ? ive seen some people using it on the logs, but having so many adds all the time with little uptime on actual boss im hesitant, i have some other options but nothing that sims close to it lol
frigid briar
Ahh yeah not drestagth, that boss is just a clown fiasco. Just run breath of the dying and stay on adds. Infinite is poop there aswell
high mantle
for sure
arctic walrus
IS is actually quite nice on nzoth because it gives you a lot of damage in the final phase
lost wharf
Sim is telling me to go triple NP and vop minor
lusty narwhal
Lol
frigid briar
We cant get to final phase yet. We like 1 minute from chamber phase
hallow kraken
so with vop minor how does that affect rotation ?
it messes w/ the lineup with vanish so im just wondering how people use it in raid
honest needle
How does vision major work for assasination
I see rogues using vision major now for soem fights
harsh sphinx
๐ฃ for NP procs
hallow kraken
and do we hold vendetta for vanish ?
strange python
I like running subterfuge with vop major, use both vend and vanish on cd except situations where adds spawn soon and you hold vanish to get multiple subt garrotes up
strange python
I don't think CLF is great on wrathion unless your guild's kill time is super slow
grim mason
is hoD the go to for single target aka raid?
languid sail
Would you guys cleanse t3 ev?
quasi pewter
if the piece is an upgrade without the corruption on it yes of course
@grim mason single target can always easily be simmed, HoD is very strong
quasi pewter
no trick
grim mason
So i dont know how to read logs stumbled on it once where I could see what the top rogue cast sequence where on raid bosses, Can anyone navigate me to that point?
cobalt pelican
casts and timelines
you can plot stuff from taables too
but generally a timeline is easier to read
grim mason
ok thank you guys
honest needle
so rotation dont change at all for vision major am i correct ?
vocal ginkgo
is the mecha ring set with the 3 different abilities + haste a lot behind the backstab + haste or basicly the same?
grim mason
@honest needle i dont think it would change its simply reducing the cool down on vandetta right?
@honest needle and as a major is has a chance to proc vendetta I would asusme useing wa to trck whenit procs
coarse carbon
Sorry for the silly question here- been gone 9months... Are sin rogues still stacking crit > haste > mastery in m+ when stacking EB?
grim mason
crit mastery. dont believe you want haste
coarse carbon
Thanks @grim mason
plain moon
How many of you guys have replaced your mythic fonts so far? Finally getting a sim that says higher
drifting cloud
only reason its higher because you have vop minor
plain moon
oh yeah forget to change before i started the sim. I traded to a wlock in my guild anyways
rustic yarrow
Is by and large the best Main essence BoTE for raiding and M+?
strange python
rustic yarrow
haha
strange python
ive read somewhere here that wowanalyzer isnt "updated" is that true? if yes what do i have to look out for while analyzing?
latent pagoda
Hey so first time asking a question but I've been scrolling through for a few weeks. As Assassination rogue, glimpse of clarity is good or have i been misreading this? I'm looking for which corruptions i should target.. I have 2 ranked 2 twisted appendage one on weapon and the other on my boots. Should I be looking to change anything? the mind flay normal hits are 20k
arctic walrus
glimpse is pretty bad, gushing wound is best, followed by expedient. mindflay is good though, having 3 is fine
oblique smelt
i don't know the name of most of them which one is expedient?
is that the haste proc or the increased haste or something?
arctic walrus
haste %
fallow otter
Rolling ap on mythic raden repetitively is doing my head in
primal yoke
Hey guys, new to the discord. Does anyone know about the 3x Nothing Personal + VoP Major build? I currently run 3x DD, 1 Blightborne, 1 NP, 1 HoD with BotE major. Deciding which one is more effective
Vita + 445 Coral trinkets
latent pagoda
Thanks for the input guys, I'm sure ill have more questions and I appreciate it!
arctic walrus
just sim yourself
primal yoke
They sim about the same, but the 3x NP + VoP major build seems like it might be more consistent in reality. So much NP damage
arctic walrus
a VoP build seems more consistent to you?
primal yoke
It just doesnt seem as dependent on crit chance
cobalt pelican
np can still crit
you'll just have less of it
generally if you have a build that sims the same as vop but isn't vop it's probably the play to not play vop unless for killtime reasons
latent pagoda
what does VoP stand for?!
cobalt pelican
vision of perfection
primal yoke
I saw this on the pinned messages, but it seemed like it was pinned back in EP so I am checking for 8.3. Sin rogues still pop coral on every vendetta right?
primal yoke
and if you are running BotE + coral...do you pop both of them on Vendetta?
oblique smelt
Will we ever get to replace Coral 
arctic walrus
no
cobalt pelican
they'll both be during vend, coral will cover all of it and bote will generally be aligned to the tb inside vend
primal yoke
Cool, and when do you choose CLF over BotE major?
if im asking dumb question or too many, sorry. I am new to the discord.
Just tell me and I will stop
cobalt pelican
when it sims higher by a decent margin, fits fight time for the fight you're planning to play (3:30, <1:30, etc) and you know there's no aoe likely to happen
primal yoke
Is pooling energy still worth it, or not so much these days?
grim mason
@primal yoke yes...should be envonoming 70+ energy
so if you arent spamming enven when it comes of cd you should be pooling till it 70 or more energy I believe
primal yoke
so even if you are at 10 energy when you get 4-5 CP, do you wait until 70 to use env?
grim mason
i mean envenom cost 35
peak jungle
debating using my residuum for AoE pieces for M+. Most of the gear doesn't seem to be much better than heroic azerite pieces
grim mason
but yes wait for 70+ to envenom
unkempt solstice
Rogue feels really ruff to play, in comparison to the other melee classes I play (Warrior\DH\Druid) for the same amount (or less) in dps.
Really feels like they have nothing going for them
I guess the damage output is very sustainable? compared to others.
unkempt solstice
Yeah, raid, seems like we lost all utility in M+ too, with the new boss mechanic thing.
just feels clunky to me.
grim mason
Rogues are just fine we havent lost anything, feeling clunky to you how and why. The new M+ affix is ok our utility is still a go to for many dungeons if anything now it helps more since with shroud we canlline up skips with oblisks?
strange python
Do you pool energy outside of about to tb?
grim mason
if you click on pins at the top of this page and scroll down a bit you will see a discusions on energy pooling, it may help
the section where they go over the opener for M+ with CT and without CT
fallow otter
@unkempt solstice i guess that is just personal opinion but I don't get that at all. We didn't lose any utility for m+ you can still use rogue only things for the new affix
storm perch
Opinion is based on feelings and conjectures. @unkempt solstice Have you played rogue, mean assa rogue?
rigid mango
Assa isn't top tier but it isn't bad. It feels awk and not as good as other melee classes/ranged classes in a lot of situations, regardless it'd still great.
raw dove
I have a shitload of Haste on my gear. Simming my stats give me Vers 1 Mastery 2 in stat weight. Is this standard beheavior ?
storm perch
there are no standart behaviour. Every single rogue will be simmed in different stat weights. It's all depends on many conditions. For ex, my top stat was always crit, nowadays it's become haste. So i would recommend: do what bot sais, but with a little analyze.
raw dove
Thanks. Yes that's why I asked. Maybe too much Haste on gear dampen its value and place other stats on the top
storm perch
i heard ppl with IS got haste always on top stat
fallow otter
@raw dove do you have a sim handy?
storm perch
but it's better to sim yourself always
echo night
Can sin compete with outlaw in keys? Primarely 14-18 keys
fallow otter
Yes
echo night
Is 3xSS 3xEB still the way to go?
fallow otter
Yes that's good but some drop some EB for some dungeons like KR
storm perch
Is 3xSS 3xEB still the way to go?
@echo night depends on affix, encounters
being sin you need to become an azerite gear master. Collect them all)
echo night
Is coral + torment the best trinket combo?
latent wraith
Torment is horrible trinket
storm perch
i guess coral + vita is the best
latent wraith
god dang i hate that thing
echo night
I got a galecallers boon at 475 aswell but i dont wanna have 2x use trinkets
fallow otter
I tried it with font, full fire mage style, it wasn't bad but I hated it and my usual combo is better
fallow otter
Mythic version is nice, I like it
storm perch
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8pZZDww4SCmjqyqSnXJ7rN
@raw dove you should get rid of haste. Get crit/versa enchants. Lucid never should be in major slot. Only minor
fallow otter
I'd say it's all he has and it's not bad as a major just not as good as the others, if you have them
storm perch
get bote in major, if you have it rank 3
latent wraith
what are you guys simming for dungeonslice
my 440 dh sims higher
woops wrong gear
storm perch
even breath of the dying will be much better in major, than lucid
what are you guys simming for dungeonslice
@latent wraith assa can't be simmed in dslice
fallow otter
Yeah needs rk3 tho
storm perch
it's all about 
latent wraith
i get like 3-4% in a mythic+
fallow otter
Outlaw though
Not happy with 4%?
That's good
Or just annoying that it pulls the world haha
storm perch
Do you guys run bote or iris for mythics
@latent wraith bote ftw
what are good numbers you searching?
raw dove
@raw dove you should get rid of haste. Get crit/versa enchants. Lucid never should be in major slot. Only minor
@storm perch Yes ty Im working on Bote right now. Also working on level 12 cloak. Char is not optimized at all im switching main. I know my dps is very low for my Ilvl
storm perch
what azerite pieces do you have?
storm perch
for aoe, at least, you should have tripple SS
latent wraith
i have two td'/ one rank 1 one rank 2
storm perch
well
you have double dose
no double dose in m+
get 3ss
than depends on affix, you may get rather 3 eb/ or something like ttk/np/hod
in current affix i would go 3eb/ 2eb +ttk/hod
residuum casino ftw
make lucid at least rank 2, get VoP
storm perch
ah crap)
tacit plaza
Guys 2 stupid questions
First one, about what depends the combo regeneration? I mean sometime with 1 skill I get 4 cp, sometimes 2
tacit plaza
Second one, with this unpredictable cp regeneration, how can I do it to avoid waste cp?
Must I use envenom with 3 cp?
latent wraith
no
multiate
dont posion knife or muti at 4 tho
if you overcap due to crit
no big deal
storm perch
First one, about what depends the combo regeneration? I mean sometime with 1 skill I get 4 cp, sometimes 2
@tacit plaza read your passive. Your crit may give you more cp
latent wraith
you cant
storm perch
boom at 4... sometimes
depends on situation
just try to not waste cp when you are ready to use tb
tacit plaza
Ok
latent wraith
im off to bed
storm perch
@latent wraith get 3 ss, find eb gear. Get rank 2/3 VoP and Lucid
latent wraith
u talking 3 eb 3 ss gear?
storm perch
at current affix yes
slender sandal
Why do people use vop in m+ ?
storm perch
Why do people use vop in m+ ?
@slender sandal make vendetta great again?)
night vale
I guess more vendettas and playing subterfuge you donโt need to line up vendetta and vanish. Having them desynced is not bad
dire terrace
does sin use PP at all in raid? for any fights (as a minor)
storm perch
does sin use PP at all in raid? for any fights (as a minor)
@dire terrace Purification Protocol? Ye, viable on bosses with trash
dire terrace
which bosses is that? ive barely stepped into the place
storm perch
vexiona, carapace
dire terrace
ty
crimson palm
Don't use it on Vexiona, there're other classes who can handle the adds
Your job is to pump the last phase
and you don't want pp there
dire terrace
I dont have bote or CNS (its an alt thats now my main kinda) so i cbf farming it again im running breath, iris, lucid and WV (maybe flame)
are they ok
storm perch
pretty decent
dire terrace
ez ty
dire terrace
yeah pp performs like dog shit on outlaw wasnt sure about raid for sin though
i dont like it on the rogue
potent raft
in visions solo, do you go for cheat death elusivness or leeching poison? I have the feeling that leeching would have the most constistent value
faint harness
yea
distant lava
leeching
misty hazel
Do garrote/rupture/crimson tempest snapshot? I got the golden plumage triket and was wondering in m+ if I should use the trinket before I dot
scarlet sequoia
99.99999999999999999999% sure that if you bleed and then use trinkets that the bleed dmg increases
no snapshotting anymore
brisk forge
For m+ it is 4-5ish targets and 40sec right? If a remember correctly dngsim sux for assa?
terse orchid
pretty much yeah
brisk forge
Cool
heady talon
Hi guys, sorry if this is a stupid question, but how do you get the best use out of BotE in m+? Do I use it first and then garotte on as many mobs as possible, or do I get garotte up on as many mobs as possible then BotE then FoK spam with envenoms?
dark crag
The second but with more ebs and mobs you spam only fok
small island
https://www.twitch.tv/musclebrahtv/clip/EnchantingLuckyBeefAMPEnergyCherry?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time follow that and then use BotE at the end for giga damage
quasi pewter
verbal mantle
eager kernel
faint harness
40k 
shrewd night
minor garden
Dropping one ruiounouss bolt trait(aprox 700 st dps) for an echoing blades (gain aprox 2k dps aoe) to run through whole ny'alotha and not have to reforge for m+?
heady talon
Thanks!
subtle tundra
Ny'alotha aoe as assa is more padding than anything
faint harness
i do wonder, was that ever not the case
there are bosses with adds that definitely need to die, but should an assa rogue really spec into it
subtle tundra
I mean doing aoe is other classes job
Having an assa do aoe is kinda last resort
In hc I just run full st without ever changing and still parse 90+ on the aoe bosses like hive mind and carapace
crimson palm
@faint harness 3x SS & sub felt pretty satisfactory when you save vanish for the darters ๐
And then with every re-clear they just evaporate in <10s ๐ฆ
turbid osprey
Do you multidot on those bosses @subtle tundra? Spreading ruptures for example? Or just yolo ST
tropic ocean
Except hivemind is not pad cuz adds are #1 priority
- having big ravager dmg with vendetta + 3x ss ๐
faint harness
thats mythic progress for you
crimson palm
corruptions are the bigger impact
faint harness
and it has to be that way, i wouldnt play farm if it was like doing prog-like kills every week
crimson palm
like 4-5 td's stacked and the small ones can be ignored totally
idd
Do you get more emp garrote dmg if you extend duration on primary target during a vendetta window, or if you garrote a third target?
slim estuary
Hey everyone! I haven't raided properly since Argus where I got CE. I'm not doing very good :/ how should I change to improve? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/28085957
crimson palm
You're doing ok considering the gear you have
slim estuary
Rotation isn't much different to antorus?
minor garden
So
Back to my question, stay with ruinous bolt for 700 extra ST dps is the answer then?
Its the only shittalent i got on that row or echoing blades
faint harness
you know what the loss/gain is, cant play the game for you. If you dont care about 700 dps ST then play EB and vice versa.
crimson palm
Your opener is wrong @slim estuary
I'm checking the Maut log
I'm pretty sure MA is simming higher than you
You're also not entering your TB windows properly
You want to be at 4+CP and ~80+ energy
So you can fit in at least 2 ideally 3 envenoms
You didn't even use vanish in the fight
summer valve
if you don't want to reforge for m+ i would just go EB @minor garden 700 dps is not gonna be the diff between killing a boss and not, unless you're trying to parse or something
and RB is a bad choice in keys, it can break CCs and agro tentacle on last boss siege early
minor garden
@summer valve thx for ur opinion
slim estuary
You didn't even use vanish in the fight
@crimson palm Yeah, pretty sure my button got sticky on my mouse so I gave up on that fight
Could you explain how to correct my opener. I was still working off antorus where you use TB on CD
crimson palm
Check the pinned posts
storm perch
@slim estuary change your azerite traits, regarding what raidbot sais
minor garden
Do echoing blades change at how many mobs i use fok insteaf of mutilate?
crimson palm
With MA It's Mut Rup Mut Gar Vendetta Tb Vanish Env Mut Env etc.
ocean ore
@south sapphire on m+ with 3 EB you use fok at 2 adds more
storm perch
almost 2k dps increase
ocean ore
in raid.... with 1 eb, maybe 3-4
slim estuary
@storm perch rule of thumb, what is the correct traits to use
crimson palm
ST: 3x DD 1x NP, Overwhelming Power & HoD
storm perch
@storm perch rule of thumb, what is the correct traits to use
@slim estuary sim yourself
crimson palm
But sim yourself
ocean ore
@slim estuary you should sim it, but Double dose, Nothing personal and Heart of darkness going very well
if u have it
storm perch
it's not like goto thing
you should understand how each trait works
but seems, if you change a bit - 2k dps up
in top gear you may choose traits
mystic fractal
If you accidentally get to 5cp as TB is coming up, should you just use it and eat the lost combo points or spend then rebuild to 3+ before using?
Gut feeling says holding it is worse than a few wasted CPs
Best case itโs held 2s and even then youโre probably low energy to not get 3 env in the window too
rigid mango
waste the cp
slim estuary
Thanks everyone, I just simmed my traits and changed a few around
rocky ruin
Anyone got the macro for the thing from beyond?
old escarp
Papa you still use TB on CD (unless vend is a few seconds away then hold) I think itโs more that we have enough downtime where you can plan ahead and have the CP and energy ready for when TB comes off CD. But yes you are correct TB on CD like antorus
ocean ore
@rocky ruin you cant use a macro to target it, mouse over only
crimson palm
There's a WA that puts Ion's head over it
It's pretty hard not to notice it ๐
Or you just just change Ion's picture with a picture of your crush
crystal vault
get plater and check your advanced options. check guardians โ๏ธ
glass trench
It is so hard to sim good as rogue.. I mean I have good gear and sim 84 k https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hioRHXk1Qk746e1XStnX5M
And a friend has like only 2 items he can use and he is doing 7 k more dps https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dbnWpLBFFoDWdefBam9QgD
WTF ?!
primal yoke
Is Potion of Focused Resolve or Unbridled Fury better for Sin Rogues?
crimson palm
Do a quick sim and check what sim is using
primal yoke
Its using Focused Resolve, but everyone on logs is using Unbridled Fury
cobalt pelican
you're simming 6 minutes for some reason even
but yes generally rogue will be lower than dh
especially a dh stars sim
storm perch
botbait!
cobalt pelican
unbridled is better for most builds, you can just check both pots out in the sim though
the sim will by default use the potion in the default profile which is crit regardless of gear
so it's best to just check for your own character
glass trench
Yeah was simming 6 min cause most of the fights are really long in mythic ๐
white wyvern
Well you can't compare DPS of different sim settings.
maiden raptor
So i checked warcraftlogs and did i miss something or did bote just get used alot more or better in the past few days? Cause it's like the top major essence on allmost every fight
feel like that wasn't there when i checked last time
storm perch
bote used in major even in legion
glass trench
Okay, Iam dumb xD
maiden raptor
odd heath
for padding on carapace hc, yes, with 3 echoing blade traits
adds spawned? Bote > multiple foks until all adds die > profit
storm perch
well 20 times? i guess they will die way more faster)
odd heath
They die really fast
5-10sec casting. but it is just padding, to get nice logs.. totally not needed lol
true pelican
the stacks get used up in one go
royal lantern
^ its a buff that stacks up on dmg but uses all stacks at once
so its either a BIG FoK cast or a 20%fok dmg increase
storm perch
frigid briar
Stacking echo blade wont get you a good parse on carapace unless you tell everyone to not dps adds at all in any phase
You wanna go full ST and cleave when possible with something like Bote> drestagath trinket, pre channel font before big adds come or some other cheesey bullshit
Your main loss of damage will be how you play P2 as putting up bleeds that dont tick full duration can be a result in DPS loss over just envenon
Also running ahead in P2 and nuking the clusters of growths solo helps
crimson palm
Dafuq you talking about, literally all padders in top100 are stacking eb
spark oyster
most likely because the adds don't die instantly / they get 2 add waves in p3
which allows you to get way more value out of eb
if the adds die insta like they should in any good group it's a bit pointless to stack eb imo
sullen pagoda
Its because top 100 is letting the guy pad or boost run with half the ppl afking
15 ppl doing nothing does wonders for logs
royal lantern
^
just remember what top logs means most of the time
in legion fury warrior top logs was basicly
crimson palm
his statement was that stacking ebs wont get you a good parse
royal lantern
19people stop doing dps, warrior execute for 10min
crimson palm
even padding with EBs casually will get you 95+
spark oyster
going full ST gets you to 95+
shrewd night
Thats a question of definition. If you got a high orange from padding, I still wouldnt classify that as a good parse.
minor garden
why do ppl use vision of perfection as minor? sims worse then a rank 2 essence for me
crimson palm
@shrewd night obv, but the statement above was that stacking that shit wouldn't give you a good parse
frigid briar
Its not a good parse
royal lantern
with vision you can use vendetta+blood everytime he is on the ground, without vision vendetta comes off cd when he is not a target
frigid briar
Pretty sure my statement was, it wont get you a good parse unless everyone ignores adds
crimson palm
The top rogue log as several people with 99+ logs, do you think any of those ignored ads?
storm perch
sounds weird, like you, you and you - just hit the boss, rogue assa.... come to me boy... pick your echo blades/hidden blades, let's do for you orange logs....
crimson palm
You can just cast FoK a few times when adds swarm and that easily gets you 300k+ dps for several seconds
frigid briar
Lol
sullen pagoda
Why is there even discussion about hc fight
scarlet swift
All parses matter
sullen pagoda
Hc parses oof
frigid briar
Its pretty dumb
crimson palm
The point was, you can stack EB and get a high parse on the boss by padding on the adds. That's all
frigid briar
Cant you just ignore tenticles in p1 and get thousands of adds then wait till twilight procs?
shrewd night
The point was, you can stack EB and get a high parse on the boss by padding on the adds. That's all
sullen pagoda
Possible
shrewd night
Yes, and the entire point was that it wouldnt be a good parse
High parse does not mean good parse.
crimson palm
How do you even define good parse in heroic ๐
storm perch
grey parse does not mean bad parse?)
shrewd night
I mean, you were the one who brought up heroic..
scarlet swift
You donโt define heroic parses at all, thatโs how you define it
crimson palm
Stacking echo blade wont get you a good parse on carapace unless you tell everyone to not dps adds at all in any phase
frigid briar
Okay
white wyvern
This is like the dumbest shit ever.
shrewd night
This is such a facepalm discussion Im not wasting more time on this.
frigid briar
Yeah im out
crimson palm
That's what it feels like
storm perch
this disc should be alrdy over)
scarlet swift
I bet if you had EV you killed
frigid briar
I got Assass rank 8 on first kill
scarlet swift
EB*
frigid briar
Stack more EB to kill boss yeah
sullen pagoda
The 200k pull i had worst rng, like 10k below usual boss dps i have p3
Unlucky tentacle gamer
storm perch
EB
restive coral
Just play full ST on cara
frigid briar
Play for ST on all bosses
restive coral
Ofc
frigid briar
Think I got 4 100% logs for boss damage
I legit dont give a fuck about adds or parses lol
sullen pagoda
Well not hivemind but who cares about that boss kekw
frigid briar
Hivemind I got 100% for boss damage lol. Parse was shit overall but we wanted to skip a set of darters
sullen pagoda
Idk if ur gear depends on mind flay corrupt its fking casuno dps
Casino
Im envious of ppl with haste and gw corruptions
frigid briar
I got 2 infinite stars max itmlvl last week so finally can start doing good ST. We extending this week though 
sullen pagoda
I got avoidance from haste weekly, and gw on boomkin and 12%haste on arms alt
Great game
tacit knoll
any1 can suggest a bursty set up for drest. I was consiering 3 ss with exg but sims assumes tht ill be starting stealthed an not using vanish for my openers
frigid briar
3 double dose 3 heart of darkness. Swap in NP if your big tenticles live 20 seconds or your doing boss damage with cds
Run breath essence rank 3 as major
shut garnet
frigid briar
You dont need bursty, you just go clockwise around the room hitting shit that lights up orange. Use breath when anove 80% then 2 seconds before it dies
Depends why and what he needs the burst for. I just doubt he needs as much burst has he thinks he does. I could be wrong
The fights more about not falling behind the waves with consistant dps
stray imp
hey guys which potions do we use as assa? force or resolve?
white wyvern
Sim
upper wedge
Do you use vop minor with bote?
tacit pebble
almost definitely unbridled fury
only on fights where timings dictate it, most of the time no
upper wedge
So you just hold bote until vendetta is back up?
tacit pebble
yep
upper wedge
alright
minor garden
why do i shroud to use garrote in starter anyway? it doesnt do more dmg?
arctic walrus
What
scarlet sequoia
ah jesus
strange python
U stealth garrote cuz it deals more damage u dont have to shroud
Only speccd into subterfuge tho
With MA u go ham
@minor garden Unless I misunderstand your question - if people talk about "shrouded" when it comes to dps/opener it's generally referring to the shrouded suffocation trait, not actually using shroud
white wyvern
Yeah IDK their terms are all f'd up.
primal yoke
Is Gorak Tuls still BiS for azerite shoulders?
unborn otter
Finally got a second SS/EB azerite piece.
Only took two seasons. ๐
arctic walrus
Outside of mythic nzoth yes
warped mica
Does cloak work on mythic Shad'har fixate slow?
strange python
Nope @warped mica
young portal
Nope
warped mica
K, thanks that's messed up though
jaunty crystal
Got goraks on my first roll this tier thankfully
quasi scroll
Does sub work off another players shroud?
That would be interesting
Vanish shroud to give all rogues new burst
quasi scroll
Ah
worldly sandal
So looking at my raidbots sim, its showing to only use garrotte from stealth, and in my unstealthed rotation only use mutilate, rupture and envenom. Is this correct? This is with one SS trait.
I guess mutilate is more bang per energy spent?
strange python
What do you mean exactly? Garrote should be maintained 100% of the time on single target
hollow stone
Yea, you absolutely want to be maintaining garr during the fight
worldly sandal
ah my bad. i looked over it in the raidbots rotation
hollow stone
Just dont overwrite your ss empowered garr w a normal garr
worldly sandal
it was waaaaaaaaaaay down the rotation
eager barn
what is the time-left point where clipping garrote is ok? (not an empowered garr)
hardy wind
so to piggyback on that, it's better to let an empowered garrote fall off completely than to refresh it at 1 second with a non-empowered one? I've been letting mine fall off completely but not sure if I'm right about that
arctic walrus
Yes youโre losing out on a tick
young portal
What traits did you run? 3 SS and...?
fading vigil
Do you run crimson on last talent trait for visions?
fading vigil
Ahhhh makes sense! Is the middle tier any good for aoe pulls? Iโve never ran it
The one for FOK
With the traits you think it would be decent?
hollow stone
Its mostly a meme talent. I would just ignore it but if you wanna get in on some memes, play around w it
fading vigil
Lmao heard that! Preciate it bro!
old knot
what other builds have people been running to 5mask clear stormwind?
fading vigil
Can yโall give me a guide and updates on how yโall are running the storm wind vision? Should I even be trying to 5 mask or full clear till Iโve got the titans talent and my cloak to lvl 11 before I worry about that shit?
Or were yโall getting some masks done and full clears before cloak 11
hollow stone
With the sanity resist we have now, โanyโ build will work for 5 masks. Planning ahead is more valuable than the โbest gearโ. The goal would be 3ss 3np
old knot
thanks, applejuicce
hollow stone
Without gift itd be iffy. Youd have to be your own judge on that. For sw, imo, you go dwarf into old town, lust shaw. Port back, trade into mage. Port back, lust again for alleria. As far as the masks go, you gotta just try. Try 2 masks. If that goes really well, try 3 or 4 depending on how well 2 went, then do 5
arctic walrus
Without gift itโs possible, just hard
hollow stone
Yea. Exactly
arctic walrus
Without extermination itโs near impossible Iโd say
hollow stone
Pretty sure its impossible w/o exterm but cant say i tried so :p
fading vigil
Whatโs the food buff people are using for the sanity gain?
Watched a YouTube vid
He would eat every time he would open a gate and gain like 150-200 sanity
arctic walrus
Kbab something like that
latent gazelle
Rogue in a guild I run with sometimes says he always runs WV major in Nyalotha. Which canโt be right, anyone know which bosses it would be bis for and which itโs bad? With other people in raid running to of course
For sin*
gusty mirage
WV is supposed to be really good right now, but I feel like its kind of a sim bait. I'd have to guess maybe like maut, shadhar up until phase 3 is pretty good for the way WV works, raden
tacit pebble
shadhar and maut are pretty much the only fights I think WV work in
gusty mirage
there are fights where it's viable, but it's not really reliable imo
latent gazelle
Thatโs what I thought and told them. A few others chimes in and said they run it to, a hunter, DH an someone else
fair stag
Guys I'm a bit confused... seems like everyone's playing MA nowadays but when I sim my character it tells me I should play Subterfuge even without any SS traits... thoughts?
gusty mirage
w/o any SS traits the dps difference is probably like what? 200-400? just play MA then if you're used to that ๐ @fair stag
tacit pebble
subterfuge is a bit better for most people at this point, people just aren't changing
gusty mirage
yeah that has a lot to do with the power creep from the new gears making subterfuge literally a tiny bit better w/o SS traits
tacit pebble
its about 500 dps better ST and 1200 dps better 2T, which I think there are enough opportunities to take advantage of
gusty mirage
yeah I could see some fights where it'd be the choice to play
and if your azerite traits for raid have been dogshit like mine, it's a good excuse to run 1xSS 
tacit pebble
same, i was running 1x ss all the way until nzoth :/
was checking how the APL handled 3 target with subterfuge and saw this
is using your TB-BOTE then immediately going into vanish triple garrote optimized?
fair stag
So what do you guys think would be optimal opener if playing Subterfuge without SS traits? Garrote X2 > Mut > Rupture > Vendetta?
tacit pebble
on single target you garrote-mut to 4/5 cp- rupture - vendetta
vanish when the garrote enters pandemic
fair stag
Aight thanks man... feels weird lol
high nacelle
why do we not g m g or g g m for longest g?
high nacelle
ok thanks
crimson palm
Is this right
Check the BoTE usage please
Second vendetta looks very weird as well
grave trail
Subter is better for most fights
old escarp
Delaying 2nd vanish for 2nd vendetta feels bad when playing bote
tender canopy
Can anyone tell me for single target the ideal traits for raid? What % haste crit mastery are ideal? I have some haste and mastery proc corruption gear but not sure what to wear as I play outlaw currently
crimson palm
Why is 2nd vendetta not delayed but used at 2:03:784
No emp garrote, no bote, no tb
jaunty crystal
always sim your gear. Stats will be different depending on what you have.
old escarp
I canโt speak to the sim rotation. Was just commenting on my thoughts subterfuge vs. MA
tacit pebble
the bote and tb are still easily within the vendetta window
no difference in it being at the start of vendetta or the end of vendetta as long as the full duration is good
with just subterfuge you both vanish and vendetta on cd
its not until you add SS traits that you have to delay things
crimson palm
Yeah but why not use vendetta so you get full duration of the emp garrote under vendetta
it's not like you'll lose out on a third vendetta if you delay it
tacit pebble
๐คท๐ฟโโ๏ธ i assume its been tested with sims and its generally not worth it
strange python
VoP minor is simming as my highest minor with NP. Do i just just ven without vanish then?
crimson palm
it doesnt make any sense to me
old escarp
Tb bote env vanish/garrote seems weird. Thatโs better than finishing your 5s Bote before the subt garrote?
tacit pebble
yea, just vanishing on cd i think is what they decided on with vop minor, weird result to have vop minor as your highest simming though
strange python
ya ignore what i posted. im an idiot and thought lucid was vop when i glanced at it
grave trail
i only use vop minor for wrath cause of how the fight works otherwise formless minor seems higher
tacit pebble
the placement of the vanish/garrote is weird, i think thats something that needs to be looked at with bote
especially on multiple targets it spends most of the bote window applying garrotes
crimson palm
I think I'll just stick with MA lol
grave trail
MA definitely makes the rotation feel smoother but the more crit you have the more it loses value also if theres an add you can cleave off of
crimson palm
I think the 2nd bote is delayed because of the dot refresh that overlaps
Then it prepares for a tb window and uses bote before it
But dunno, I'd still delay vendetta and refresh dots before it?
grave trail
2nd bote is always delayed cause it doesnt line up no
like every bote after first one
crimson palm
It has shorter cooldown than vendetta?
grave trail
unless you run vop minor
grave trail
yeah and if you dont delay your bote it wont line up with your vend or what are you saying my dude
crimson palm
Check the sim I linked above
Vendetta is used at 2:03
Then garrote, 2x mut, rup
Why isn't it refreshing dots, then going into vendetta window
could be that the amount of envenoms in the window stays the same due to energy or smth?
rotund pier
If using BOTE major with subterfuge, but NO SS and then coral... is this the right opener? G/M/R/Vend+Coral/Mut/TB/Bote/Mut/Env then mut env etc until vanish+garrote again to extend pandemic? Isn't there a double garrote somewhere there?
crimson palm
Andoris the sim i linked above is that situation, check the casts log
rotund pier
just joined, didn't scroll up
rotund pier
it doesn't put vend and coral together hmm
grave trail
it does
grave trail
i always use my second vendeta even with subter, Coral> Bote > Vendetta> TB> ENV window
i dont like when the sim uses the Bote but i might be missing something
grave trail
thats not the opener
old escarp
Why use bote before vend and tb?
Should be vend Tb bote env mut env
Otherwise you was 2/5 bote globals
Waste*
grave trail
yeah but then you waste on vanish?
garrote
or no
is bote over by then
im going off by what your sim is casting
your sim is casting vanish garrote inside bote
@crimson palm sim btw in case ur confused lol
old escarp
We were speculating above around 30 min ago the sim might need to be looked at because the rotation doesnโt seem correct with subt + bote
Additionally in cleave it wastes bote window with 3 garrote casts
grave trail
ah makes sense then
old escarp
Hmm so if apl is scuffed would subt be better in reality?
grave trail
but with subter you bote always waits for vendetta right which was i was trying to make the guy understand
rigid mango
Probably.
old escarp
Likely marginal difference. Probably doesnโt matter
rotund pier
so whats teh real No ss opener?
rigid mango
That's my assumption anything
rotund pier
like can someone write it out pls lol
grave trail
just delay vanish for pandemic imo
is the only diff no?
or use rather for pandemic
old escarp
Subt opener would be g mut r vend mut Tb bote env etc. then vanish g in pandemic window. I think
old escarp
^
white wyvern
Wouldn't you want 2 garrotes in opener? g > g > r
grave trail
some guy was saying use vanish off cd which was very weird
it doesnt give extra cp but still extends so prob yeah
white wyvern
oh yeah so g > m > g > r
grave trail
yeah
white wyvern
grave trail
dunno if its worth it over another M but bah its minimal loss i think
hollow stone
I really doubt 5s of garr is worth it with no ss. But thats feely
grave trail
^ yup it all comes down to that lol
do w/e u feel is worth ig
those 5 extra secs can also mean u dont miss some garrote uptime cause of non refreshing during vendetta but i dunno
minor garden
Start from Stealth Icon Stealth.
Use Potion of Unbridled Fury Icon Potion of Unbridled Fury at 1 second on the pull countdown.
Apply Garrote Icon Garrote.
Apply Rupture Icon Rupture.
Apply Garrote Icon Garrote.
wghy would i rupture on 2 points?
this is the starting rotation
from both wowhead and icy veins
old escarp
Only with SS. Otherwise that is not the opener