where's the bfa merc guy?
#assassination
azure grove
faint harness
the pvp area
royal lantern
near the pvp chest
faint harness
has a mask on his face
royal lantern
human with a orc mask
faint harness
i think merc mode still works, but you cant gain double dipping benefit iirc
back when bote just came out, you could queue BG week + merc mode
and gain a fuckton of honor
silent parcel
Ye
faint harness
on EU*
royal lantern
almost always?
silent parcel
Can you merc from ally to horde as well?
royal lantern
its always
azure grove
so by double dip, you mean it won't give the bonus week bonus and the merc enlist bonus
faint harness
never played alliance lul
i think they changed it
not sure
i did bote rank 3 and havent touched bgs since
and back then you could have both buffs
so 50% and then 50% on that buffed honor
which means a win was like 1000 honor ish
nutty
rigid mango
It's more updated
vernal crane
sims it at night for more sneaky dps
rigid mango
When new changes are made to the APL, they're pushed during nightly
Weekly (like the name suggests) updates weekly
So granted there's some sort of tuning, you wouldn't notice that until the next week, possibly.
orchid sequoia
okay cool
faint harness
Yea and if theres a new patch theres a lot of changes, if you sim weekly you might be making judgements based on old numbers
and its kinda bad
agile tulip
hey, does the extra FoK from Echoing Blades generate CPs?
quasi ledge
No, just extra damage
agile tulip
ty
raw oasis
What are good m+ stats generally? Crit/mast > vers > haste?
raw oasis
Well I have 0 EB 😄
raw oasis
Yea just trying to drop a bit of haste from raid build
So for aoe packs I'm throwing out 3 garrotes, CT, Fok to 5, rup, spam fok /spend? When do you typically throw in BoTE?
Wait thats in the tabs, nvm
crystal vault
is it worth to fok for more CP = more focus dmg? for example vexiona, playing 3x DD but fok'ing few times to spread poison and more CP?
tacit pebble
with 3x DD it'll always be better priority dmg to mutilate, i only fok to try and make sure my bleeding targets stay poisoned
tropic ocean
for prio dmg its always better to mutilate with 0 dd over fok as well
tacit pebble
there were some good sims about this a while ago because of orgozoa, no idea where they are though
tropic ocean
for the sheer fact that fok with 3 eb still does less dmg to the 1 target than 1 mutilate
crystal vault
so top parses are padder 
tacit pebble
that'll be true in a lot of fights this tier xd
tropic ocean
heavily depends on fight and raid comp anyway
crystal vault
but atleast you want your deadly on them, so fok for this = more 
hollow stone
Top parses are almost always padders. Thats how the game works
minor garden
not echoing blades for assa m+ ?
rigid mango
yes echoing blades
hexed falcon
does spamming detection still work to trigger infinite stars?
unborn rampart
No
hexed falcon
good xD
azure grove
So how are y’all dealing with grand delusions? Blind on cd and crippling poison kiting?
undone nova
Aren't these stat weights a little suspect?
hollow stone
But, no, those arent suspect
restive crater
What is the general consensus on Torment in a jar vs Dead Eye spyglass in M+?
rigid mango
Spyglass probably better granted similar levels, but torment is really good
restive crater
I’ve been trying a torment at 460 with 110 leech and doing really well, although I have a socketed 470 spyglass. Just fishing for different opinions before I dedicate to one.
minor garden
is energy regeneration rly tthis slow as assassin?
rigid mango
yes
minor garden
its like one skill per 2-3 seconds after the burst
hardy wind
3x overwhelming power helps with that. plus I have 14 regen/sec from all the haste I have. it's slow but it's not miserable
dense blaze
This just in: lowest APM spec in the game not spamming abilities. More at five.
whole mantle
I'm seeing a lot of rogues not using EB for M +, isn't it worth anymore?
rigid mango
it is worth it.
subtle tundra
its dungeon dependant
whole mantle
I thought it was 3 EB 3 SS
subtle tundra
and group
whole mantle
always haha
subtle tundra
nah
tired galleon
dont sim dungeon slice for sin
whole mantle
what do I simulate then?
whole mantle
and the guy who said that the weights are weird, I'm thinking my weird hahah
for single target
lone junco
@whole mantle rip agi
sand whale
most likely
subtle tundra
63 corruption sim 
whole mantle
i play with 63 on raid hahahahaa
whole mantle
but i have on Void ritual lvl 2
sometimes I don't let him
nzoth for example
impossible with 60+ 😦
subtle tundra
hc?
whole mantle
yeah
vapid delta
when we play BotE do we save it for tb overlap always?
or is there like an optimal window ie less than 10sec
rigid mango
save bote for vend
vapid delta
(when we dont have vanish)
whole mantle
what is BoTE ?
slate osprey
blood of the enemy
whole mantle
this is good for single ?
dense blaze
Yeah it slaps
whole mantle
I simulate 3k less compared to worldvein
dense blaze
You use it when your raid isn’t using worldvein
whole mantle
I thought condensed was better
dense blaze
Nah bote slaps but also sim yourself
weary marten
does raidbots know how to correctly simc BotE ? I have never simed it higher than Condensed LF
dense blaze
I know that it sometimes does weird shit if you look at a sample sequence but I’m not smart enough to say
cedar prism
Quick horrific visions question for Stormwind, can you shadowstep to Magister Umbric while he’s channeling his frosty thing if you’re within range?
lean marten
hes obscured unless ur behind him so imma say no
hollow stone
You cannot
whole mantle
i sim higher with less corruption
but i have 1270 crit and and 1180 haste
idk
😦
gleaming sorrel
logs are down so i cant check but which essences do ppl run with on drest'agath?
narrow robin
Can someone explain to me what Logic Loop of Recursion does?
It says "Equip: If you use 3 different spells or abilities on the same target..."
tacit wing
its a 2 set bonus that works with the rings that drop from workshop
go read the rings from machinist's garden
sand whale
@gleaming sorrel your raid group melee heavy?
most of our melee ran dying breath
but yeah if it's mythic might be some fine tuning by your raid group, you can run bote as well
I was in a odd rotation group when vendetta never lined up so I ran visions minor too XD
neat tartan
Hey guys, if this showed up on my stat weights on raidbots, does that mean I should focus on crit at most now? or what exaactly does that tell? :)
Weapon DPS - 14.27
Critical Strike - 6.47
Versatility - 6.14
Mastery - 5.86
Haste - 5.08
Agility - 2.72
Off Hand Weapon DPS - 1.39
- 1 point of Weapon DPS will increase your DPS by 14.27
neat tartan
It will choose the top from my bags, i don´t have much different gear in my bags
scarlet sequoia
tf u simming for then bro
u sim to optimize your gear as much as possible
thats kinda the whole point
hollow stone
What stat weights mean is “with this exact gear i simmed stat weights for, without changing anything, this is the value of my stats currently”. As soon as you swap even one piece of gear, stat weights change. Best to top gear and never sim stat weights
gleaming sorrel
you can sim enchants and gems too so no point doing stat weights
neat tartan
oh I used it only for talents till now, thanks for points
idle ember
whats the general use consensus on bote? it was pretty easy to train yourself after 200+wipes of azshara and wrathion with VoP. Is it all fight specific whether you sit on it or not or are people using it with VoP without vanish more than I realize?
distant lava
do you mean in general
distant lava
you keep it for vendetta ye
tacit wing
what crit/mast % are you guys running with your m+ set? is it just as much as you can get?
silent parcel
38 crit 40 mast using coral and spyglass
turbid osprey
cold meteor
no
keen crescent
got a 440 dice, 435 spyglass and a 460 torment in a jar. Which combination u guys think is best for m+?
jaunty crystal
the jar is really good. I'd sim the other two though.
echo mantle
So quick question. Is shrouded suffocation no longer good? My sim has me taking a second Nothing Personal over a single Shrouded.
rigid mango
Hasn't been bis for a while.
echo mantle
Yeah I know Double Dose is way above but is it that bad now? lol
Didnt think it was THAT bad.
drifting cloud
it has been that bad since bod
echo mantle
Good to know at least. Imma miss the 3 combo points qol but oh well
drifting cloud
and MA has been the talent of choice assuming optimal gear for a while, but now theres some scaling things where subterfuge is better than it sometimes
and thats without having SS
echo mantle
Ah yeah so that would drive SS even further down. Makes sense.
tropic ocean
any else tried running 3 ss 3 np in low trash keys
like workshop
or kr
i play it with double tents its insane
dark token
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/F9KcQpyqtabThVNx/#fight=last&type=damage-taken got aotc in a pug, thought i did pretty good mechanically but i was highest damage taken besides tanks. was any of this preventable?
those abilities dont really seem like it
tropic ocean
stop standing in blue shit on ground
drifting cloud
you were just longer in psychus phase than other group
tropic ocean
= -1,3mil dmg taken
drifting cloud
oh yeah except anguish
tropic ocean
i didnt check but from probe mind dmg taken
it seems that u were many melee in same group?
lean marten
anyone know what the proc rate is on combining "behind attack" + "does damage" the mechagon rings and how that compares to "behind attack" + "haste for 15s"
stable isle
icd is 15s i believe
rigid mango
on CD, essentially.
lean marten
like does it proc dmg every attack from behind or every 15s
rigid mango
Every 15
lean marten
ah k ty
rigid mango
Haste proc is better though
coral wasp
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
silent parcel
How much value is the 9% crit corruption for m+?
strange python
umbric chest big value, who needs a dagger
dark token
tbh one for outlaw one for sin is pretty good
reforging is both a pain in in the ass and expensive
during prog
or if you like playing more than 1 spec
tribal marlin
well we will extend
now
no more Carapace kill before nzoth is dead
and I wont OL for nzot 😦
I wanted the dagger so badly :
quasi pewter
3 kills 3 bonus rolls no dagger no chest 🙂
fading wigeon
is anyone liking ineffible truth?
rigid mango
Nope
raw oasis
What's the toy used for assassination targetted Shadowstep?
rigid mango
Doesn't work anymore
raw oasis
ty
fallow otter
All three @true nexus
Unless same slots
Very rough maths, that should still be under 60
50, 25, 35 = 110 then minus 52 is 58
warm hatch
Does the toy still work in visions?
vital haven
i tried a jeeves @warm hatch and it worked
plain jewel
idk if this is the right place to ask, but can a rogue kick a pally if he has BoP on him?
true nexus
@fallow otter r1 tdev and r2 same slot
fallow otter
Use the 2 rank 2s then imo
civic palm
@plain jewel Not the right place, but Kick is physical so no, can Blind though last I checked.
plain jewel
okay ty very much
cobalt pelican
you can envenom, and that's about it
azure grove
Does have two items w void tendies increase the proc rate, or do they each have their own proc chance
drifting cloud
neither, just more dmg
azure grove
oh so the damage of the two is just added for when one pops up?
onyx osprey
anyones coral buggy on mythic ilgy
azure grove
maybe if coral would ever drop for me...
polar shale
idk about mythic,but its been buggy on ilgy and skitra
onyx osprey
i lost an 18 stack for last phase, just stopped stacking and eventually fell off
polar shale
if they stop stacking they are bugged and reusing coral will add a stack instead of consuming them
from what ive seen
tardy flame
Quick question, Assassination is still the go-to spec for jumping singled out people in normal BG's/World PvP yeah? Or is sub a better alternative for dueling and quick killing fragile targets?
I'm going to mess around with the new PvP toy and see if I can kill my guildies doing their dailies in WM.
clear lynx
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
onyx osprey
yeah youre right, just like wrathion and skitra, seen that before
scenic nacelle
Hi Dave ❤️
onyx osprey
yooo 😄
fallow otter
Any m raden tips boys?
And Preference blood or clf? I'm thinking that I will just use highest St from sim
long portal
Get really good infinite stars ring and blast away :D
fallow otter
Ill pray to the rng cache lords again
storm perch
hey guys, just wondering, memory of lucid dreams in single target simming way more higher than bote or whatever - it's top 2 on bloodmallet, but noone picks it in major slot, why is that?)
storm perch
i'm about that statistic - https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#rogue_assassination?data_view=essences
in my personal sim - memory never simmed in major slot, always minor...
drifting cloud
I assume this chart is major and minor combined
since it gains 2k dps at r3 while major r3 literally doesnt gain any dps just leech
torpid sluice
Major gives energy regen right?
storm perch
yes
onyx hedge
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6ja8m1PTwjWj8KnFmDec54 That freehold ring was a nice bump
The 12% haste corruption still bis?
Aside from GW
faint harness
onyx hedge
Ik a stupid question but aint been playing a stupid amount lately. Had finals on for Basketball so to much training not enough wow D:
With the nerfs im not too sure
inner sonnet
you actually lose dps in most cases if you use lucid major instead of another, as other majors far out dps their minors, but lucid barely does, so it's better as a minor because it's soooo good
storm perch
is it possible to track how many ppl in your raid(pug) group got wv? some sort of wa?
lethal heart
fading walrus
Hey guys can some1 tell me what (where from) are the best azerite pieces for assas
storm perch
Aoe traits - casino with titan residuum. Single traits - i guess best from ny'alotta...
outer hare
@fading walrus chest from vexi, helm from ra'den, shoulders residuum gorak tul's
st
and aoe resi
you basically want 3x double dose @fading walrus then HoD sims better than everything
but you want also 1x nothing personal.
if you want a good helm to start with, engi helm is really good.
double dose + 1k agi proc and overwhelming power
storm perch
aoe best - 3 ss/3 eb (but you may shuffle with something like ttk/np - depends on aoe fight)
i would say - wowhead guide covers everything
outer hare
if you do 4 mob pulls, 3 ss is enough for you to do tons of damage.
if you play high keys and you do big pulls
then you need 3 eb to be up there.
fading walrus
Deal, thanks a bunch guys
winter moss
shoulders from n'zoth provide a solid replacement if you aint lucky in the casino. they have DD. NP. Elemental Whirl
latent gazelle
Shoulders and chest from carapace and N’Zoth for the ilvl and the traits aren’t horrible. Vexi chest is a decent replacement. Raidbots drop itemized for azerite can give you a better idea
Tho that’s mainly for single target I think.
frigid sleet
Any special things to know for restealthing entering pillars in m+ ?
I find myself sometimes struggling with that
rigid mango
Press stealth when you enter?
harsh anchor
When I click an ob, I spam my stealth key and usually get in stealth instantly
rigid mango
You can't be the first one entering.
frigid sleet
It is super inconsistent for me .. don't really know why
rigid mango
idk, I've had 0 issues outside of bad tanks baiting me 🙂
white wyvern
Yeah, as long as tank goes in first I have had 0 issues.
frigid sleet
I guess I'll pay more attention
harsh sphinx
honest vessel
poggies
viscid hill
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
hardy wind
Anyone having issues simming surging vitality? tooltip for raidbots shows "gaining 0 vers" which is making it hard to trust the sims
white wyvern
Tooltips are Wowhead aren't they?
strange python
hardy wind
dumb it would be set to 0% by default. thanks. 50% a good setting for it or should I go lower than that?
exotic rose
Hey guys, after simming my rogue, I ended up with no SS but still using subterfurge (prob because night elf). The sim shows the opener as garrote rupture garrote although ravenholt guide suggests garrote multilate rupture which makes more sense
Is the sim not up to date with this scenario?
strange python
this guy had 41% uptime on shadhar https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/whNR3XGgJtkTMD2Z#fight=30&type=auras&translate=true&source=13
exotic rose
honest vessel
subter scales better than MA, some people sim better with it, thats fine. Garrote rup garrote is probably still the way to go, sims are up to date and reliable
strange python
just play MA
exotic rose
nah not playing MA
honest vessel
sry garrote mut garrote*
exotic rose
just wondering if that 1 point rupture is worthy
like the sim is doing
seems weird lol
🤷🏼♂️
honest vessel
does seem weird
exotic rose
why 1 point rupture?
and when I look at raw output, it refreshes the rupture after 3 envenoms
exotic rose
wv my guildies dont run
gave up
clf is better but on fights like xanesh where i can get refreshes its much better
but yeah, was just curious about garrote rupture garrote with 1 combo
honest vessel
energy is energy /shrug
rigid mango
wdym
shut garnet
tbh it would make more sense going g mut g then
i assume?
if you rly arent running any SS traits i have no idea how g rup g with 1 CP rup makes any sense
exotic rose
thats what im questioning
shut garnet
yea seems fair
exotic rose
so when the Quick Sim on raidbots suggests garrote rupture garrote, is that because it doesn't care if I have SS or not?
rigid mango
it shouldn't do that?
exotic rose
let me link
one sec
oh i must have done something wrong on the previous sim
now it says garrote mutilate rupture
my bad
honest vessel
u troll
exotic rose
😄
hollow stone
Its ok. Some of us are more “picture guys”
exotic rose
i dont know what that means
wide ridge
is it worth stacking Shrouded suffocation traits for single target fights?
it's not right
honest vessel
nop
wide ridge
word
lapis osprey
Why do general traits sim so high?
Dumb stuff like heart of darkness, swirling sands, ancient's bulwark
granite dust
because they affect all of your damaging abilities not just one
rigid mango
Because stats are good
toxic burrow
475 dagger! \o/ Ineffable Truth. 
high nacelle
Expedient 3 on 415 gloves, actually an upgrade
hardy wind
is there an ideal vision setup? I'm sure SS and probably either NP or TTK would be good. guildies keep saying outlaw is the only way but i'd like to prove them wrong
or if it's pinned and I'm the 400th person to ask, let me know
scarlet sequoia
3x ss 3x np
paper relic
Getting those juicy restealths between every pack is so fun
vast forum
outlaw isn't even the best way
hollow stone
But you can also swap specs in there so 
white wyvern
Sin is good because you can swap between AOE and ST traits on the fly.
vast forum
the ability to kill rexxar before his boars get a cast off is also a good reason to play sin
hardy wind
just the usual m+ talents though?
hardy wind
refuse to group up for those. solo every one
rigid mango
Every boss is a joke because of the frontloaded burst sin can have
3ss + as many NP's as possible, font + cyclo, exsang
Etc
vast forum
the one thing that holds assa back slightly in m+ is that vanish is a dps CD, but in visions nothing lasts longer than a full garrote and you can use vanish freely for skipping shit
royal torrent
would you drop from 475 to 450 azerite for more SS/NP in visions?
vast forum
yes
i got my first 5mask full run in org a week ago with full 450 azerite
cuz i couldn't get any SS on higher ilvl stuff
royal torrent
good to know, thanks!
peak jungle
Interesting.. at my 470 il, haste is now my top stat per sims?
rigid mango
vast forum
nothing to do with ilvl
rigid mango
So many things affect that
light kestrel
Just depends on your other gear, I'm 469 and it;s crit
vast forum
stats are volatile for assa
rigid mango
Ilvl is not one of them
vast forum
i can sim 3 different gearsets at the same ilvl and have 3 different stats come on top
granite dust
I'm Ron Burgundy?
paper relic
It's crazy how big of a damage boost playing night elf is in m+ (as sin)
halcyon zealot
sim telling me to run 0 NP in single target, seems a bit odd
scarlet sequoia
why
halcyon zealot
dunno guess im just used to having atleast 1 NP almost the whole xpac
hollow stone
There’s multiple unknown factors that could make that the case
Az ilvl, other trait options, corruption, etc
halcyon zealot
its telling me to go Heart of darkness over it, only a 200 dps difference between the two though
& its on the same az piece
hollow stone
So its not because of az ilvl, but theres still a lot of other factors
halcyon zealot
lol nameless fairly ty for the calculations
hollow stone
If they sim that close, and it makes you feel good to run 1np, run 1np
Fairy’s math does check out tho
chilly marsh
what is a good % for Surging Vitality Uptime
rigid mango
Whatever the logs say
plain thistle
subterfuge without SS here we go? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9sHszYFiEXrhPJZKxPc6fH
rigid mango
Yep.
chilly marsh
have no idea what it says lol
rigid mango
Nor do I
chilly marsh
how you check a log to see how often you take dmg lol
light kestrel
Question, how do I not get echoing void two weeks in a row in my chest?
woven dragon
arctic walrus
the answer is you're lucky to have avoided a shitty corruption?
hardy wind
Just did the vision like you guys said and it was STUPID easy. full clear with no orbs used. bursting like 80k on Rexxar. dang
rigid mango
80k 
hardy wind
I still have a ways to go
rigid mango
ye burst can get waaaaaaaaaay higher
hardy wind
Was still way easier than using double dose on every piece of gear lol
rigid mango
Ye.
hardy wind
this was way better. bosses had like no mechanics because they died too quickly
rigid mango
Yeah, with small optimisation same logic goes for 5 masks 😄
strange python
tell me the secret, what did you do?:o
rigid mango
idk I didn't even have 3rd np still peaked 240k :^)
tropic ocean
with crit pot
rigid mango
n I don't think crit pot is the best
hardy wind
3x ss and 3x np. vision of perfection minor
rigid mango
agi is better, p sure.
Crit scales up to when the boss dies
it's kinda pointless
Even though I hve been using it
strange python
but how without any orbs tho?
hardy wind
though vanish on thrall did end combat and I forgot. had to wait 2 mins for cd's
rigid mango
You can do 5 masks with an orb + Cheat death still up
tropic ocean
think movement speed one is superior to kbab in the end
hardy wind
swapped cheat death (the actual talent) for the 10% leech
tropic ocean
but not completely sure
strange python
and you go exsang? Damn, the forgotten talentr
rigid mango
ye
tropic ocean
not sure its worth to sit 10s for 100sanity
rigid mango
Bigger burst
rigid mango
ye
cobalt pelican
you don't net gain 100 but you net gain like 80 sanity
rigid mango
it's worth it time wise
tropic ocean
with 3 np tb should be way superior to exsang too
ember mural
worth rolling rando 445s to try and get 3xSS 3xNP pieces? dont have any saved from last tier 
tropic ocean
restore them
clever dagger
bis list (for raid) on wowhead is accurate ?
rigid mango
n
white wyvern
o
rigid mango
p
white wyvern
e
pure moth
Lol
clever dagger
😄
vast forum
exsg for burst >>>>> TB @tropic ocean
rigid mango
vast forum
with 3xSS
frozen karma
I don't have anything else 
cobalt pelican
it's not very good
tacit plaza
its shit! but idk why tbh
cobalt pelican
low ilvl azerite, bad trinkets, corruptions on low ilvl pieces
no essences
blood2 surely can't be your best minor
tacit plaza
475 its low lvl azerite?
cobalt pelican
if you're seeing every talent being better than ma with bote with your setup the play is likely to still play ma and just offset vanish from bote
and yes, you only have goggles at 475 and they aren't even +5'd
basically every slot of gear you have can be upgraded in a relatively easy way
rancid bobcat
what's the range on void ritual
echo cargo
@cobalt pelican offset vanish from bote?
cobalt pelican
i THINK it's 40yds but that's very much a thinker and not a knower
yes, use bote and vanish seperately
it should be pretty easy to see if you're overcapping crit significantly during ma and if you are the benefit of ma will be lowered greatly
but if you move ma out of bote so you're not overcapping, nightstalker for example just won't be better at all
dusky plinth
yo, do I sim dslice for m+ or patchwerk with more targets?
echo cargo
Yeah i understand the benefit, just the timing will be a little weird :p
vast forum
absolutely yes
vast forum
bosses don't live 20 sec in visions
20s assumes the shrouded exsg garrote will expire
spoiler alert: it doesn't before boss dies
white wyvern
@dusky plinth Sim Patchwerk for like 30-50 seconds on varying target counts.
dusky plinth
@white wyvern Thanks 🙂 
pallid peak
!weakaura
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
subtle hemlock
So I got a dagger with ineffible truth. Can that be useful as a means of bringing vendetta and vanish back really fast?
cobalt pelican
not particularly
it's like 'okay' in pvp but not great, and in pve it's not super useful
it's better than nothing but that's about it
distant cypress
Truth corruption is shit and its negative dps increase for sin
tropic ocean
😄
distant cypress
If u want to use that dagger, cleanse it. Truth is bad.
lost mist
3 weeks, 3 trinkets that sims worst than 435 azshara's font -.-
true nexus
man i got so much good corruption but all in the same slots so i cant really budget properly
wary ice
That's the vibe bugii
true nexus
i got a trinket that sims like +30 from 430 font
sweet flame
every week my box item isn't bad, it's just worse than what I've already got corruption-wise in other slots
really thinking about just cleansing my carapace dagger tho tbh
feels so bad
shrewd iron
w/e sims best
subtle hemlock
Thanks nihil. I cleansed that shit
fleet whale
I must be getting pretty close to not having to use a 120 agi gem. right now verse for me is at 7.03... agi is at 3.34
i think my cloak being upgraded to rank 12 probably had a part in that though
tribal marlin
anyone using https://i.imgur.com/VlifOa0.png
kinda sim high for me, I was wondering if it's sim bait or really interesting
bleak spoke
It’s like blightborne
tribal marlin
TTK + This 480 sim best than DD + NP 475 for me
bleak spoke
But all stats
Like it’s the exact stat budget divided over the four secondaries with same uptime
tribal marlin
ok
bleak spoke
It also looks really cool but that’s whatever
tribal marlin
not bad
bleak spoke
Like you can very easily tell when it’s active actually
Your character gets a bright spark under them
And you kinda slap
tribal marlin
that seems to rock
bleak spoke
At the very least I really love how it looks lmao
tribal marlin
I don't know how to play for nzoth 😦
tribal marlin
peeps using vop other dont
tribal marlin
ye I mean mythic
we are starting it today
from the few logs there is some of theim play vop minor
some other dont
rigid mango
Weak played vop minor iirc
bleak spoke
I think it might depend on your gear
rigid mango
It's such a long fight you gain like 3 vends or smth
bleak spoke
But fonts probably not very good on that fight
rigid mango
@warm parcel
bleak spoke
I kinda wonder if ineffable is worth a spin lmao
tribal marlin
But Minor VoP I mean ... I played it quite a bit in progression, but I hate that
like
my routine Font vanish etc...
all dead with that shitty essence
bleak spoke
Yeah idk I hate vop minor too
Vanish not being reduced too is the part that sucks the most
But I guess at least you get blood on every v anyway
And probably play like
Vita coral
So every other vendetta has van but at least the off vendettas aren’t terrible quality
tribal marlin
ye I will play vita coral
even if vita sim quite below font for me
the "allied" part of it isn't simmed
bleak spoke
Font looks real annoying on that fight anyway
tribal marlin
ye also
tribal marlin
xD
bleak spoke
Concloakdance?
bleak spoke
It’s 3.4k agi for 15s that’s no joke lmao
zinc coyote
Question since y’all talking about vop minor. About 6 weeks into my rogue now so still shining the edges.
This might be really stupid but is it worth to just pool up another TB window before using vendetta and blood with vanish when it comes up around the same time as TB again.
Probably worded weird but I’m talkin specifically for the time between vanish coming off CD and bote/vendetta being off CD.
I feel like it’s kinda bad to sit on big dmg for 30 seconds... but the burst difference is pretty big
I feel like it is at least
zinc coyote
Okay fasho, so I’m doing it right. The conversation above made me feel like I wasn’t. Thanks!
shy dust
Those are speaking or specific scenarios for M bosses
zinc coyote
Ahhh fasho
cobalt pelican
i assumed it would be
to play subterfuge
and just use it on cd
but that's v much a random idea and not tested
tribal marlin
ye maybe it's good use on cd even with ma
cobalt pelican
yeah potentially
hollow cloak
@warm parcel how much uptime did u get mechagon rings at nzoth?
solid sundial
Does anyone here use subterfuge in raids? I just simmed all my gear, with all azerite choices and it's telling me to run 1 suffocation with subterfuge over master assassin and that i'd go from 62.1 to 62.7
tribal marlin
I think VoP for psychus 2 is good but not for psychus 1 :/
sweet flame
another week, another flipflop of the ol stat weights
warm parcel
civic hatch
Does anyone here use subterfuge in raids? I just simmed all my gear, with all azerite choices and it's telling me to run 1 suffocation with subterfuge over master assassin and that i'd go from 62.1 to 62.7
@solid sundial I’ve been using it, sims higher but maybe that’s cus I have a lot of mastery, just got new corruption gear tho so that might change
jaunty crystal
hmm, worldvein is giving me about a 1k increase over clf now. Used to be much closer. Wonder if that's still a sim bait though or if it's worth using.
pliant apex
im new to raiding , on pull, should i go ahead of everyone and hit first, or let tank hit, then open ?
white wyvern
Let the tank pull lmao
jaunty crystal
naw just pop evasion and take that first hit like a man
latent gazelle
Trix tank pull all the things
Or trix a dps/healer that you don’t like and pull all the things
jaunty crystal
I uh, accidentally used tricks on another dps in a freehold yesterday on the first pull (we did the big pull).
didn't end well
true nexus
go into the biggest group you can find
and tricks fan of knives
then vanish
and blame someone else
latent gazelle
Trix bote/iris then fok
civic hatch
hmm, worldvein is giving me about a 1k increase over clf now. Used to be much closer. Wonder if that's still a sim bait though or if it's worth using.
@jaunty crystal i tried it as I just got rank 3 and I hate the movement restriction to try and utilise it, and I only have 3 others in raid using it so gonna ditch it and use bote
jaunty crystal
yea that's my problem too. I used it the first week of this tier and it was obviously not ideal in a lot of situations.
but a 1k increase might make up for that...
hollow junco
WV Is really good on some fights in particular like maut
if you're doing an encounter where it's practical to use it, by all means use it
civic hatch
Ye but Maut is a joke anyway
hollow junco
it's nice having a 1min CD on the essence, lines up with every vendetta window and you get a free one inbetween
doesn't matter, current content cleared weekly by the majority of people reading this
sullen garden
OL Rogue here visiting cuz I heard that Sin is really good to solo visions. What setup do you guys recommend? SSx3, just run around and silence/dot every pack then restealth and do it again? What essences / talents do you guys recommend?
hollow junco
you could make a strong argument for WV on a bunch of other fights too
polar cape
white wyvern
Sin is better, but if you don't have Sin gear and know the spec it won't be worth switching.
hollow junco
one of the biggest factors is that if you pick azerite, essences, and talents for it, you can murder any boss inside your garrote
this means skipping a lot of bullshit
sullen garden
I have a Sin set for PvP
just have never ran it in Visions or in PvE content since 8.2
civic hatch
I managed to do it with only 1xss 0xnp but I had a decent amount of mastery
civic hatch
Went bote/botd/vop/lucid 2/2/1/1/2/2/1
sullen garden
ty!
solid sundial
@civic hatch thanks for the info, i have high mastery too so maybe that makes sense
hollow stone
I feel like that was misleading. For sin pve, your stat weights will change constantly. For sin m+ and sin visions, you want mast/crit
north cobalt
so do you guys have two sets for assassin?ST and AOE?
rigid mango
m+ and raid, ye
north cobalt
Shrouded + that fan of knives for m+? and double dose for raid right?
rigid mango
Yip
hollow stone
Thats the real basic version of the gearing, yep
pale verge
Only Echoing Blades is absent in the raid gear. So hard to get imo
lusty narwhal
civic hatch
I’ve received only rings and 1x shit trinket from cache since 8.3
Enough bling to last me till end of shadowlands
digital timber
When running sin raid build with DD, do you want to stack more haste than crit/mast?
vast forum
sterile ocean
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bYFPjcVFELdYcRMEyypV8v hmmm 1 less dps if i spec into sub
civic hatch
May as well go sub then
sterile ocean
hmmm im debateing on it
civic hatch
I mean the moment you can garrote 2 things from stealth it pulls ahead
sterile ocean
yeah true
hot flume
Just a quick question, how much corruption do you run in m+ ?
pale verge
39 max tbh
civic hatch
Same
jaunty crystal
depends on what level of key but yea staying under 40 is nice. I'd personally never go 60+.
pale verge
Fair enough. I run keys 16-19 now. I do not go over 39. To much incidental damage
Not worth the risk for me
jaunty crystal
yoda ran about 75 on his DH on stream and said it was most likely a DPS loss.
he got fucked a few times.
if you're pushing keys at all it's just not worth lol.
hallow kraken
What are best corruptions for raid and for m+
shy dust
Gushing wounds expedient are the best options for raid
Given that you can’t specifically target corruptions. It’s best to just sim what you have.
strange python
Twisted appendage is quite nice considering how you can target it specifically
but yeah as you said, top gear sim on raidbots is more useful than ever with how rng corruption is
honest vessel
twisted appendage 
strange python
for what level keys?
hallow kraken
How do you target twisted appendage?
shy dust
Raid dagger from carapace comes with rank 2 twisted appendage.
hallow kraken
Ooo
strange python
^ and it's 470 on hc, so practically mythic ilvl
jaunty crystal
I was gonna target it, but I got r2 twisted on another piece now and a 475 daggy from my cache this week.
well actually I guess I still could target it and run two r2 twisted 😛
and stop using my r2 stars because it's good on like two fights.
sweet inlet
Crucible of Flame rank 3 or conflict and strife rank 2 for M+?
plain moon
Has anybody looked at if any of the pvp azerite this teir could be bis? iirc the chest last tier was like tied for being bis but with how good the raid azerite is this tier my inital thoughts would be no. Just asking to see if anybody can save me the time from doing some sims
drifting cloud
the helm is the same as raden one afaik
I guess raden one has the option of HOD, not sure if its better than NP if you have 0 of them
fleet whale
For M+ i would just roll with C&S rank 2. Flame minor proc rate is bad plus the extra defensive utility from the verse of Strife is nice to have.
random comet
What would be the best Simming recipe for Nzoth? Beastlord?
dark crag
Hectic add cleave
rigid mango
wat
random comet
the fighting style
magic mist
how is assassin compared to outlaw for m+
rigid mango
Give or take same level
magic mist
im trying to get used to outlaw, but im thinking i might enjoy assassin more
vapid terrace
Muti so much more fun.
magic mist
Muti?
rigid mango
He means sin.
magic mist
ahh
rigid mango
Some languages the spec is called muti or smth, idk
arctic walrus
@scarlet sequoia can you do a sim rq for me if I give you rank 12 id
strange python
What do you guys run for talents in visions
rigid mango
exsang
arctic walrus
strange python
And essences I guess
shy dust
strange python
Sorry I'm a filthy outlaw rogue
shy dust
I want to see this
rigid mango
Bote/botd + lucid strife pp/botd
arctic walrus
@rigid mango I prefer robber in liquidation
arctic walrus
highwayman cutthroat just didn't do it for me
rigid mango
Just not fun enough yk
strange python
Otherwise normal vigor tb pb?
rigid mango
exsang > tb since you want to be stacking SS traits
vapid terrace
Sorry I'm old. Muti is sin xD
royal lantern
muti rogue is some BC/WotLK shit lol
unkempt solstice
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pSsvrSRLPYmzrGu6beK7br Anyhting I should improve here?
unkempt solstice
I don't really have better.
shy dust
Yes but it’s something to improve on
unkempt solstice
what azerite traits should I be shooting for? the pins are a bit unclear
subtle tundra
raid ones
unkempt solstice
1 shrouded and 1 nothing personal I know
rigid mango
No?
subtle tundra
shrouded is a big no no
rigid mango
Are you playing pvp or pve
unkempt solstice
PvE
rigid mango
For pvp, that'd be true
unkempt solstice
I have a different set for pvp
unkempt solstice
that's what raidbots was telling me?
subtle tundra
you asked "shooting for"
rigid mango
Then, like rae said, your azerite is scuffed
You want to aim for DD/HoD/NP/BBI etc
Stat ones are normally good, but sim it 🙂
You can always droptermize/Gear compare yourself 
unkempt solstice
more then 1 NP, or just 1?
rigid mango
Whatever sims best man
sand granite
subterfuge simming better than MA but sims not telling me to take any SS. Is common now?
rigid mango
ye
sand granite
ty
arctic walrus
so yeah 4-5k ic
agile spire
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fJUj28PZ9sJ8JQdPK3DocR idk if its only me but those sims seem kinda scuffed,I thought bote is BiS in both ST and AoE.can anybody look into that?
subtle tundra
motorcycle trinket 
agile spire
dont hate my trinkets,bad luck 
true pelican
depends on your gear, for me clf is 1k better than bote
civic hatch
depends on your gear, for me clf is 1k better than bote
@true pelican why do you think that is?
I like bote cus u line it whereas clf you get misaligned
Or wait longer
rigid mango
huh
paper relic
Is it worth it to drop one SS for one EB for m+? I have no pieces with ss/eb =/
swift moss
what are most people simming with reasonable corruption and mythic prog
rigid mango
pb
tidal jay
rigid mango
unkempt solstice
worldvien in first slot a must?
rigid mango
no
rigid mango
Idk I play both I really don't feel a big diff of either
Last talent honestly doesn't matter that much xd
true nexus
yea i feel ya
rigid mango
But there are places where ct/hb are worse than PB
true nexus
feels good to have an extra button for controlled aoe
rigid mango
but I don't feel like there's places where they truly outshine PB big enough
swift moss
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/DNJxvQbrvWvkRKrYGCa4s so im not doing too bad
quasi pewter
just play pb always tbh
civic hatch
Ye I like the extra regen from ruptures over ct rotation
subtle tundra
unless you push 20+ last row always pb, the difference is not big enough
civic hatch
Just annoying when tanks pull shit out of your bombs
dark token
pog that bis m+ shoulder https://i.imgur.com/2wgIkBG.png
civic hatch
Ah right
subtle tundra
its just the baseline from previous patches
drifting cloud
you cant
cold meteor
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qVmmzmJ6vef9TM7qncpX9o
2.4k upgrade for purifying Tentacles
subtle tundra
yea, get a 465 one from m+
river acorn
Is blood of the enemy rank1 worth it over beam rank 2?
rigid mango
n
copper prairie
What's looking like BIS Sin trinkets? I've got a bunch from raiding and mythic chests, and there's a lot I am thinking about
scarlet sequoia
coral+vita
rigid mango
coral + vita if you have enough ecpidient pieces / font
copper prairie
Mhmm, thanks, of course, font and coral are the two things I don't have
rotund pier
Coral dropped all the time when we were in ET M. Now on this toon it’s never dropped, week after week in pugs, feels shit man
swift moss
vita only if you expidient pieces?
marble hemlock
sim yourself 🙂
swift moss
I do just asking cause zine said
rigid mango
more haste % = vita better
font beats most cases
Spgylass can win too granted high enough with socket n shit
swift moss
gotchu I just want double on use to be gone lol
scarlet sequoia
vita is always better for the raid in general
so for raid bis trinkets are coral+vita
doesnt matter if font is a 500 dps increase
rigid mango
idk how big of a + it is, havn't seen any numbrs
raven mica
also not having to deal with the BS of double on use
I have to play sin now
im uh
tilted a lil bit
rigid mango
raven mica
I still have mythic zaqul helm on.......
sullen pagoda
engineering 
raven mica
when mythic maut drops a help that stronk
honest vessel
whats a good uptime for surging vitality when taking constant damage
honest vessel
thx 🙂
keen torrent
Any issues with having Multiple "Nothing Personal" Traits...
Just got a new chest piece and have it on my help already
rigid mango
Not really, energy part doesn't follow but damage does. Sim to be sure but it's still fine to stack.
keen torrent
Thanks 🙂
fleet parcel
is there anything documented that will pull you out of stealth right when combat is about to start?
it keeps happening to me after i prepot
cobalt pelican
not really, do you use any macros?
fleet parcel
not in those moments
i just prepot and walk in stealth and stealth fades
before combat
cobalt pelican
which potion/any specific fight?
bleak spoke
we are the cloakcordance boysssss all we ever do are wait for our procssss https://i.imgur.com/vlqe11A.png
other rogue in my raid played better than me he just has scuffed gear lmao
rigid mango
Man I wont be able to get fresh conc parses
cobalt pelican
imagine the freedom of not kicking the ball every week
rigid mango
bleak spoke
yeah not kicking owns
i sandbagged so hard on heroic
they didn't even put me in
"sandbagged"
bleak spoke
i'm running t6 mindflay this is a huge meme
arctic walrus
These xanesh logs of rogues with no responsibilities 
cobalt pelican
feels like i'd just get mad even trying
cobalt pelican
p normal
drifting cloud
bbi is giga
bronze wagon
shit okay
drifting cloud
if you had mythic vex chest it would sim higher with np than your current
raw rune
can we get enough mast now to make mp viable?
undone nova
Are there sims out there that will find the best combination of your gear that keeps you under X corruption?
cobalt pelican
raidbots top gear does all you ever need
undone nova
i don't think it does that
cobalt pelican
it does
undone nova
how?
cobalt pelican
there's a slider at the top of the screen
undone nova
when i adjust the max corruption bar it just tells me i've selected too much corruption
cobalt pelican
then you're not selecting appropriate combinations
or don't have 'copy and purify' ticked
undone nova
i don't, i just select literally all of my corruption gear
cobalt pelican
yeah, but are there any alternatives to the corruption gear?
like lets say you have gloves boots and legs corrupted
do you have uncorrupted gear in those slots that can be used, to lower your corruption?
undone nova
ahh perhaps not
cobalt pelican
you would either need to a) select a non-corrupted piece in that slot to be used for combinations or b) select 'copy and purify' to use a duplicate of your corrupted item
undone nova
that might be the problem, let me try again ^.^
cobalt pelican
however copying and duplicating can up your iteration count very very quickly
undone nova
i have the paid version that lets me go to 5.5m iterations
yup, that worked, thank for the help @cobalt pelican
abstract moon
Hey fellow Rogues quick question can you double wield 2 of the same daggers if you get two daggers from Wrathion.
cobalt pelican
yes
abstract moon
Awesome because my lowest piece equipped is one of my daggers
next solar
anyone mind answering some log questions on hivemind for EK SS? trying to figure out why my dmg is so low comparitvely
raw rune
EK SS?
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
harsh tusk
!essences
grave trail
I know sims are a thing obv, but are u guys running bote ST or CLF
arctic walrus
most just bote
raw rune
not this again
sterile ocean
is there a certain point you should be useing bote i been simming it and its telling me not to
which bugs me
harsh tusk
Question with stat weights sims, I've been playing around with my gear (have good corruptions just not infinite stars), but the best Im getting is 68k on single target as sin spec. I feel like this is low compared to what parses are at, any tips on base amounts of haste/mastery/crit to look for? I have the correct azerite traits
I've been playing outlaw too much and I'm a little out of date on assasination
arctic walrus
stat weights are useless to base anything off of
put your gear in top gear and get the best result from there
if you have rotational issues/questions you can link a log here and I can go through it and point stuff out
harsh tusk
Note, I have every trinket, and the 475 one off of wrathion. I have 430 socketed azshara, and 445 socketed ashvane (which is what I usually use)
arctic walrus
and also please sell lmao how do you even have room in your bags
cobalt pelican
simming from the bank 400iq move
cobalt pelican
you actually have too much gear to make sense of tbh, there's some other things worth looking into like 465 socket wrists are likely better than 475s, expedient ring is definitely worth throwing in the sim, use your higher nzoth shoulders
clf is worth checking out even if people hate using it
harsh tusk
Yeah, it's kind of a problem
orchid sequoia
would people still play shrouded in keys this week?
cobalt pelican
smth like https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/75LznNRpQc3mBGnjkg2EJp is about the best i can do without reiterating on it 500 times with all the junk in your bags
use something roughly like that as a base if you want to stay below 39, then sim out enchants and gems since i didn't add any
arctic walrus
you always play shrouded
orchid sequoia
what would be the next best choice? Been playing rogue for à week but i only got eb and shrouded
would i want to go shit like twist the knife or?
cobalt pelican
as many shrouded as you can fit, twist the knife is like.. okay.. as a filler
short pivot
3ss 3eb
cobalt pelican
depends what gear you have, what d ungeon you're playing and what classes you're playing with
cobalt pelican
assassination is kinda just a 'build it to do something'
if i had all the gear in the world i'd probably play 3ss 2eb 1bbi in most dungeons, and drop an eb for something else in a few
orchid sequoia
bbi stands for?
cobalt pelican
blightborne infusion
cobalt pelican
even on tyrannical trash is like