if you stay here for a while and follow conversations you'll notice that a lot of the time, people come in asking for help but they can't specify what they need help with, and when you try to help them they somehow get offended
#assassination
vast forum
atomic willow
twisted appendage or infinite stars on that fight same tier and ilvl?
rigid mango
Both are just down to RNG.
vast forum
i want to say infinite star but the difference is probably minor
the good thing about infinite star is that it can keep stackin while you're doing the ball
if you're lucky ofc
even doing 99% reduced dmg, a stack is a stack 😄
atomic willow
That's true it does come down to RNG....I guess I need to stop overthinking it and just roll the dice, hope to proc a bunch.
rigid mango
Possible shit rng vs possible shit rng
subtle tundra
^ this whole patch
turbid zealot
yo does anyone know why endless hunger is simming so high on blood mallet/hero damage?
rigid mango
Because it's good.
turbid zealot
i mean does it buff corruption damage or?
rigid mango
It's really good.
Does it feel out of place with the other top 4 traits all being stat based?
Sorry, 5.
turbid zealot
i mean kind of ye
unkempt solstice
I hate blood of the enemy, that essense requirement is stupid
I do not like being forced to pvp
scarlet sequoia
okay 👍
unkempt solstice
So the only worthwhile item in the new raid is Shard of the Black Empire? All the rest comes outta M+?
scarlet sequoia
nope:)
rigid mango
Huh?
unkempt solstice
I just did droptimizer in raidbots, for heroic Nzoth, and that's the only thing that's a decent upgrade.
unkempt solstice
Is echoing void still decent? after nerf?
drifting cloud
nope
zinc coyote
my gear and essences that bad?
and lack of decent corruption i guess as well. this guys about two weeks old
idle lily
is sin or sub better for pvp
red pollen
so for the opener you dont garrote? you just unstealth and go right into mutilate?
strange python
what is the haste food called
maiden raptor
Is the engi helm so good that it's worth rerolling jobs for it?
zinc coyote
Bet I’ll get that helm. Good fuckin idea right there
sly ferry
Got 2x r2 ev. Should I just cleanse them and use Crit buff and appendage both r2 ?
cobalt pelican
engi helm is fine
not like herbalism is useful for anything anyway
and sims work fine for all corruptions so probably sim it
sly ferry
Oh saw people were saying ev is trash now , nightly still the option for current corruption nerfs ?
dense axle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
cobalt pelican
ya, the corruption changes will be on weekly too by this point but there's not really ever a reason to not use nightly unless there's a known problem
maiden raptor
What trait would be best for sin on the engi helm? On the inner ring that is
arctic walrus
relational normalization gizmo
maiden raptor
Awesome thanks
crisp hollow
i’ll sim a comparison of 465 vs 430 coral
excited to see coral inevitably win out because of course it would
rancid bobcat
medallion, not badge
but medallion still might lose out
its cause coral scales with haste strangely enough
2ndaries are getting out of control even more than ever
crisp hollow
medallion not offered from this quest lol
thats rough
ill test that one too
yeah its still -1500 from coral, unreal
crisp hollow
is the "ideal" order offhand - mainhand - rings - other?
cobalt pelican
and it's not abnormal for badge to sim that badly, the apl doesn't really have a tight lineup for anything besides font/coral
there's only 2 globals inside vendetta that have both trinkets up
rancid bobcat
people are already getting sockets from mementos
cobalt pelican
yeah not surprising really, i'm like 3-4 vessels of runs away from one and i tanked way too many
well, maybe i'm a couple more than 3-4 away
crisp hollow
i still need to complete the tree
tribal marlin
I did everything solo and failed a lot of visions
rancid bobcat
i tanked like 7 or 8 so far
tribal marlin
i'm at like 45k overall right now so still like 35k away from sockets
even more actually ..
crisp hollow
by fail do you mean not full-clearing?
tribal marlin
I failed 2 run this week, 1st zone I did so very few memento won
tried 4 mask solo :3
but I sucked
most of fail I did was because I get full bully by rexxar ...
so since I do it last I still mostly get mementos from 3 zone but at the end i'm only à 45k
cobalt pelican
pretty sure you just have to go right first and drum rexxar
and play some whacky burst build for him
if you want to 4mask
tribal marlin
all pig charge at once and then you get bumped into disorient
cobalt pelican
but yea i think the play is you have a 3ss3np set or something similar with font+mechagon trinket you equip after killing drag guy, do the skip up the left and drum and pray
tribal marlin
and then you just get stunned by zone it's stupid
cobalt pelican
i watched the bm hunter do 5 masks and it looks like he doesn't even know how to walk in a straight line so idk
tribal marlin
Right now I can kill it most of the time with 3 mask by just cloaking before the charges
Well I was also playing without the "free" res but now that I have it, rexxar should not be ap roblem anymore I think
cobalt pelican
400% sanity is still pretty wild on him if you get hit by absolutely anything
the quillboars suddenly just delet your bar
tribal marlin
ye :/
400% sanity is really a big probleme for me atm, I will just keep regular 3 mask til I get my sockets and try the 4+ later on
Did blizzard said anything about corruption drop rate in m+ btw ?
it's begin to be ridiculous how rare it is ...
cobalt pelican
not as far as i know, just silent on it
seems like the kinda thing they'll leave as is for like 2 more months then 'hotfix'
tribal marlin
We dide like 150+ run since patch release and we overall found like 10-15 corrupted items
plate, mail, everything included
like in that situation I probably have more chance to win lotery than to get an optimal corruption setup from m+ ...
cobalt pelican
yea seems about 1 in 10 from my experience too
i just gave up farming after a bit
tribal marlin
I mean
150+ run with 3 item per run
seems way less for us :/
maybe we just get really unlucky
cobalt pelican
yeah i mean
1 in 10 dungeons, a single piece between everyone
not 1 in 10 items for me
tribal marlin
oh ok
cobalt pelican
i think i've received 2 of the like 6 total items the people i play with have seen since season start
tribal marlin
xD gratz
probleme is that 18+ are still too hard to consistantly farm
for us at least
but farming 18+ would result in 5 item / key insteed of 3
cobalt pelican
ehh
it'd be 4.2 items right
which means 4, and very rarely you'd get 5
not worth the extra hassle imo
drifting cloud
20% of the time it works every time
cobalt pelican
i still have no idea what's going on with subterfuge
the gains are a mystery to me
tribal marlin
oh it's easy
It's because I have SevereIII AND razor coral AND bote
So basically when I use vanish (or to be exact when apl use vanish) I'm already at 100% crit chance
cobalt pelican
ah makes sense i guess
tribal marlin
It's probably better to keep MA and choose another essences than bote
but I dunno, bote is fine for the burst it provide, appreciate in most encounters
Do you know anyway to sim WV with X peeps using WV as major ?
I wonder if it changes anything
cobalt pelican
don't think there's an option for it no
but it'd be unlikely to change much anyway, worldvein uptime or already like through the roof in the sim
cobalt pelican
yeah but even 2 allies is like 70% 4stack uptime which is what i'd consider realistic ingame
tribal marlin
and I know my friend feral is using major WV so
cobalt pelican
but since yours and his majors sync up you're almost always going to have the 3 that spawn from your own + 1 random one to fill your 4 for the duration of the major buff
if that makes sense, like the major mostly covers its own uptime in patchwerk
tribal marlin
sure thing
but do really sync it xD
I dont know
we probably not desync for more than 20sec anyway
sterile ocean
so i got a question do people look at blood mallet or hero damage now?
rancid bobcat
are they not similar
sterile ocean
Bloodmallet shows infinite stars on top while hero damage shows Gushing wounds on top for corruption
spice gull
Hey, is assas viable for mythic nya?
arctic walrus
why wouldn't it be
spice gull
No idea, I haven't played rogue a whole lot so
arctic walrus
yes they're most definitely fine
spice gull
is it the best rogue spec for heroic/mythic?
arctic walrus
pretty much
raven mica
summer valve
@sterile ocean that's because bloodmallet defaults to dps while herodamage defaults to dps/point of corruption, change the filter and they show basically the same values
sterile ocean
Right but its confuseing what im suposed to look at 1st cause 1 shows infinite stars the other shows gushing wounds
summer valve
they tell you the same thing
gushing wounds is better damage/corruption but getting one piece with it does very little
infinite stars 3 gets you way more damage for the single corruption, but is not as efficient per point of corruption
basically if you get one gushing wound it's only 15 corruption
sterile ocean
right but dident infinite stars get nerfed to?
summer valve
it's going to do less damage than a infinite stars 3 which is 75 corruption
that's already reflected in the sims
and charts
but if you somehow manage to get 5 pieces of gear with gushing wound
for that 75 corruption, the GW are going to do more damage than the single IS3
sterile ocean
ah ok
rancid bobcat
just read the charts m8
hazy iron
on hero damage you can cahnge the graph to total dps gain which will show IS at the top
ripe rivet
Guys I have a really dumb question but can't find my answer anywhere, why do FoK generate different CP amount, even when spammed on the same number of target ? I don't get why I get between 1 and 5 CP randomly
Was obv as sub, it was the number of target
But can't find any passive that would explain that as sin
vague rock
When it crits you get an additional CP per crit
summer valve
seal fate is the passive 🙂
vague rock
Is hidden blades kinda bad in m+? I thought about using it because I noticed my tank kept moving mobs outside of poison bomb while kiting
vague rock
yeah i might try that
sage ice
does infinite stars stack? if i have two of them would it procc faster or is it just hitting harder on the target?
scarlet sequoia
harder
silent parcel
Are the engineering goggles worth using?
distant lava
yes
silent parcel
time for some more expulsom farming yahoo
silent parcel
Which trait of the engi helm should I use for m+?
shy axle
whatw as the correct opener with bote and ma again?
scarlet sequoia
mutilate till 4 cp > rupture > mutilate > garrote > vendetta > tb > bote > vanish > envenom
deep fractal
is 1 Shrouded and subterfuge good for most fight in Nya? It seems like there are lots of fights with spare thiings to garrote but I idon't see many using it.
shy axle
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/o1UAtfbN6aHV8fU2Tq4P4t would you use the citywatch ring over TA r1 ? ist it really that big of a difference? wouldn`t have thought that
shy axle
good to know thanks
tacit wing
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
frigid briar
@scarlet sequoia you there
scarlet sequoia
sup
stoic violet
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
crisp sluice
Looking for someone to help analyze my logs and performance on how to take my parses from 70 -80 to 90+. Will pay with in game gold for quality analysis. PM please
lilac shuttle
Hello, how many stack ashvane corail is sim ? Because if its 25 stacks 😕
scarlet sequoia
69
scarlet sequoia
u dont use coral at a specific number of stacks, you press it with every vendetta (more or less)
lilac shuttle
Yep I did this. But maybe some other trinket 475 are better no ?
vast forum
coral is kinda shit on some fights
vapid geode
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
cobalt pelican
avg consumption is at like 15-16
tropic ocean
think it varies from fight to fight too
e.g. in nozth I let it stack on boss and extract it at the end when mc
(and on psychus)
lilac shuttle
thanks 🙂
modest raptor
hey guys new to assa, should i save Bote for each vendetta window?
acoustic bramble
Hey guys! My Racing Pulse III sims about 730dps better than my Echoing Void III on the same slot with the same stats on two different items (slightly different weight).
Does this seem right to you? My stat weights look like this.
acoustic bramble
This is what i did
dark crag
60 corruption 
royal lantern
why do some people sim almost 5k higher then me when my gear is almost the same lol
rigid mango
Link your sim then
rigid mango
Gonna gues bec of his stat weights
royal lantern
probs saw haste is lower then other stats=haste is bad, why should ill take a haste corruption 
narrow thorn
clear horizon
serene osprey
Games "balanced" around max level
young portal
subtle tundra
@narrow thorn its not good in m+ either my dude
60 corruption for 7m damage
out of 150m
while another dps had twilight devastation 16m
red plaza
is twilight devastation the play now
red plaza
oop u just answered. wtb TD
mighty elm
How are you level 30 when game starts at lvl 110 
grave trail
so i did shadhar on my rogue this week, is Assassin basically wheelchair for that fight?
rigid mango
Wat
vast forum
?!
rigid mango
It's raw ST and the downtime from doing the one real mechanic that causes downtime doesn't matter a lot to you
grave trail
Im talking about the fixate mechanic my dude
vast forum
ask for freedom
rigid mango
The one that should be carried by freedom/lust+
grave trail
So yeah we are wheelchaired OMEGALUL
rigid mango
And if you don't have enough hpalas or brm monks
idk what fam
There's tons of classes that can't do anything about it and it's not your duty to do so
grave trail
Thank god switched to DH this tier
rigid mango
Good on you bud
vast forum
yea you should probably play outlaw for hook then if it bothers you
grave trail
even DK's can escape bud
grave trail
It was just a question no need to be so defensive mate, but thanks
rigid mango
vast forum
👌
rigid mango
Cya 
grave trail
What corruption u guys running now, is TA the top now for ST
rigid mango
GW > expidient > rest
grave trail
interesting thanks
rancid bobcat
i wonder whats making GW so rare
maybe it's just cause it only has 1 rank
which owuld be funny
crisp hollow
IS is mostly simbait, pretty not-great on majority of raid fights
grave trail
Yeah i feel like TA proc rate is very hit or miss
crisp hollow
shadhar, wrath and raden mostly
grave trail
but when it procs holy shiet
rancid bobcat
xanesh is a mostly ST fight too
crisp hollow
yeah it might be decent there too
rancid bobcat
i mean, it is good there
crisp hollow
any fights that would benefit an SS setup to pad you think? possibly nzoth but idk where vanish timings tie into it
like you never have adds up when you vanish xanesh 😦
grave trail
What do you guys do to parse on wrathion during spike phase, just mut and rupture as many as u can? or is it worth to Fon Couple times and rupture
rancid bobcat
what do the top parses say
grave trail
it varies a bit
crisp hollow
probably top parses on wrath would involve extreme padding on the spikes or fast enough kills to not lose a lot of dps on the spikes no?
grave trail
Yeah but i feel like theres a lot of variables, like do you focus on the ones that are being least focused is my guess
rancid bobcat
most parses are definitely pushing it before 3rd intermission
focus on getting your guild to do that
i'd imagine you just try to get your own little corner of 4-5 spires and pump into those
so you're not running around
rancid bobcat
i mean it just makes sense, doesn't it
grave trail
you're most likely correct
you gotta be quick and pick an isolated grp which is most likely closer to boss
to also be ready to dps boss as soon it comes down
cobalt pelican
spike damage is basically irrelevant
grave trail
not when you're trying to parse? or is it like skitra
cobalt pelican
like you do so little regardless of what you do that it'll be like <5%
i mean the damage counts
grave trail
hmm interesting
cobalt pelican
but there's no 'strat' to parsing in that part of the fight
generally put bleeds on assassins asap cause they live full duration mostly
and then walk around jerking off
grave trail
I would think since it lasts like 20 secs it would be meaningfull
true maybe assassins is the to go
jovial vault
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7opYb9PwAmZtVoW72ZSBK1 so my stat weights swapped to vers mast not sure how accurate I think that is
neat remnant
Mastery is a big pumper now
whole mantle
guys using 3 ss and 3 EB for M+ ?
idk if is good change 1 EB for Hearth os darkness :/
hallow kraken
What is the best way to find out the best build for m+
buoyant kraken
Try out what Feels Best for you
rigid mango
buoyant kraken
No reason to play with CT etc if you are getting more dps out of PB
rigid mango
I don't think I've read worse help.
You play CT and if it goes poorly you improve
You don't play suboptimally because you havn't learnt how to play it yet
buoyant kraken
If you are asking for build help, chances are a new build wont help much
rigid mango
No, that's an entirely wrong mentailty tf
Do you think playing a worse build out of comfort is better than learning a better build?
buoyant kraken
It’s better to just start out playing an easier build and then learning the basics of assa in m+
rigid mango
This game is not hard enough to warrant that.
buoyant kraken
Yes, if you dont have the basics down
buoyant kraken
It is for some people
hallow kraken
so there really is no way to find out what out of your current gear is best for m+? like stat weights/essences/azerite
buoyant kraken
How would you find the Best build then?
rigid mango
Not through enforcing bad behaviour
buoyant kraken
Im guessing you have a better way
rigid mango
@hallow kraken ofc there is. Cut haste low, stack SS/EB and play high crit and mastery with versa being fine too. Play bote + lucid breath cns/vop.
Twist is fine, NP is aight but a bit more situational.
hallow kraken
okay thanks i appreciate it
rigid mango
You drop EB's in certain dungeons, namely KR/siege/workshop/tyrannical temple, same for crimson tempest
Use that everywhere apart from those ones.
versed mica
Wait, CT is better than PB for M+ now? When did that happen?
rigid mango
A while ago.
rigid mango
CT v PB v HB has always been kinda touchy
hallow kraken
how do we know that all of those things are actually the best? is there a method to figure out what is best for certain situations and what not ?
rigid mango
With the new affix I'm not entirely sure what it'll change azerite wise etc.
hallow kraken
not to challenge you or anything. im just trying to figure out how to determine for myself what truly is best in m+
rigid mango
Sin has this thing that if you spec into something you'll lose something else
Get another EB, you potentially lose out on single target
Sims have been done and this is just the highest output build
It's what'll get you the best result whilst losing you the least, theoretically.
Now in practice there's people who like twist, like seli, for its added boss damage and priority addition on envenoms
Whilst that is a make or break for most keys probably wont matter, whether it's a preferable style of playing sin, probably.
versed mica
seli?
rigid mango
hallow kraken
so should i definitely not rely on stat weights/top build from dungeon slice on raidbots?
versed mica
Ohh
rigid mango
Dungeonslice is quite bad for sin.
versed mica
Speaking of M+, is that aoe tentacle trinket from new raid any good?
I forget the name of it lmao
grizzled mist
is rank 3 Infinite Stars worth using as Sin?
neat remnant
It's only use I have found is arena
rigid mango
Depends on the fight
It's great for shadhar, probably great for raden/xanesh but down to rng, and you can just onebang yourself on maut.
Quite dogshit for rest.
versed mica
Use infinite stars for maut, cloak and pray when skin phase starts 
grizzled mist
should i bank it for the rest?
rigid mango
Essentially very RNG
If you can get every proc on the boss it's great
But everytime it missfires it just loses value
grizzled mist
it just seems like a lot of corruption for something that does less than my auto attack dmg.
versed mica
If the fight lasts long enough and you get procs, it will be your highest damaging ability
thick kettle
are you guys using 450 azerite armor to get the right traits for m+ sin?
rigid mango
1 piece, yeah.
grizzled mist
what are your opinions on simming corrupted gear? is it even remotely accurate? mostly to tell what dps i can get from varying levels of corruption
rigid mango
It's good
grizzled mist
ok cause its apparently a 3.5k dps increase to wear my corrupted pieces up to 75 corruption lol. on a 5 mins patchwerk
buuut im kinda bad, and 75 corruption is a large chunk lol
thats with infinite stars on as well
drifting cloud
no youre dead at 75
fierce vine
crucible major? have you tried a different setup
grizzled mist
yeah i just dont have better essences right now. still working on CFL, rank 3 Blood and rank 3 Worldvein
subtle zodiac
445 coral is like still the best trinket for single target lol
blissful storm
lmao
grizzled mist
almost everyone on warcraft logs is using it. so im gonna guess probably
versed bobcat
hey boys, is there still a cheap shot / kidney macro? mine doesnt work somehow 😦 /cast [stance:1/3/2] cheap shot
/cast [stance:0] kidney shot is what i used
grizzled mist
what's the recommended corruption level i should stay under? i've heard 59, 39.
tropic ocean
depends solely on how good you play
grizzled mist
ahh, so keep mine low then lol
woven summit
Hey guys, just got back into BFA, what essences do you find the best for raiding and mythic + so i can write it down and try to sim them
zinc coyote
Warcraft logs is what I used for that when I started my rogue @woven summit
tropic ocean
theres a full list of all essences down in raidbots
so u can choose whichever, sim them and see
woven summit
Yeah but surely there are some that you prefer
tropic ocean
its not about prefering but what is the strongest available
woven summit
I'll check warcraft logs tho
tropic ocean
usually bote/wv major
odd sun
is it still worth using coral if I have 45% crit with food buff?
zinc coyote
Haven’t had enough time on the rogue to really spit out preceded essences yet or I’d help y
tropic ocean
well clf got nerfed so usually bad compared to wv/bote
zinc coyote
Preferred*
atomic willow
a lot of people still use CLF
woven summit
What do you usually use as minors?
iris and lucid dreams is used a lot?
for raiding
tropic ocean
@atomic willow it is very irrelevant what "a lot of people" do because a lot of people are bad
and for every boss that is logged top essence choices according to wcl are bote and wv 🙂 (and breath major for drestagath) other than that just sim the character and you'll see what the best essence for you is
rose ember
is there a trick for rogues to deal with 40 corruption?
subtle tundra
yes. take the damage like a man
short quarry
You can slow them with your poison/blind them
raw monolith
zinc coyote
@tropic ocean
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#metric=dps&class=Rogue&boss=0
CLF still being used on maut, skitra, cheese danish, Ra-den, ilgy and nzoth? top performers don't make top choices?
rigid mango
CLF is fine.
It still does really good damage and unless you have windows of burst required or specific timers etc, it can be usable
dark crag
Clf sims 200 dps more than bote for me, but wv major beats both with 4 man in sims
atomic willow
@tropic ocean ha your right I just thought worldvein waas CLF
tropic ocean
well it comes down to individual character (so sim) but the better the gear gets the more clf seems to fall off
hence not many use it anymore
atomic willow
but yea CLF sims hight then BOTE for me on patchwork or if I'm using expedient corruption
tropic ocean
it comes down to gear yeah
calm hamlet
this is the highest simming build for me on ass..
tropic ocean
huehuehue
tiny granite
in general does EB or SS sim/perform better in m+ scenarios (assuming u already have 1 ss)
vast forum
depends on the way your grp pulls
if you restealth between pulls, SS is god-tier
if you chain, eb pulls ahead
tiny granite
cheers
vast forum
thing is, SS is the single best trait for short ST fights, so it has great value on bosses
and it's also the best trait for aoe if you don't pull very big packs
trait choices will always depend on your tank, the level/dungeon you do
unkempt karma
tips on traits for m+ ? TTK + SS and FOK?
rigid mango
Yep.
vast forum
mostly SS and EB, ttk and hod are good too
unkempt karma
Dont have SS + EB ones. Just SS + TTK mostly, some with DD +SS
vast forum
DD is garbage for m+
unkempt karma
thank you ! Good to know, but great for boss fights if not mistaken
2x ss + 2x ttk + 2x hot? or should I try to aim for 3x ss?
vast forum
personally
i'd aim for 3x SS 1x EB and any mix of ttk/hod/eb for the last 2 depending on dungeon
1 NP could also be good in some dungeons but extremely situational
also, dropping all EBs in KR is good
unless you wanna pad the overall meters on the blobs in 2nd boss room 😄
cobalt pelican
what about COLLECTIVE MIGHT
unkempt karma
Right, nice info! I think I can manage to squeeze those in.
Yeah, I know about KR... hate it tbh XD
vast forum
tbh i love kr as assa
most of the time your tank can't chain pull even if he wants to
and you just destroy the kings' room with 3x SS
unkempt karma
since I'm far from a top tier player, I get in those fantastic grousp you know 😉
groups*
magic fossil
guys, both rings from mechagon are the bis for 8.3?
vast forum
yes
cobalt pelican
assuming you don't need those slots for corruption prolly ya
vast forum
there are no drawbacks, you just get 200 bonus haste for nothing
obviously, saying "bis" is a bit vague as you can get your bis corruption on regular rings and sim better but as baseline gear, mechagon rings are bis
magic fossil
thank you bois
tropic surge
can someone explain why we take PB over CT in kings rest?
rigid mango
Because the packs aren't big enough
drifting cloud
because of how the dungeon is designed youre always pulling 1 by 1 pack
rigid mango
And the bosses matter more
tropic surge
would it be better to take twisted appendage instead of twilight devastation then?
both rank 2
ancient cradle
hello, how would i be using Memory of Lucid Dreams active on bosses?
i don't know if you'd like to stack it with vendetta?
rotund pier
whats the ideal essence setup for h nzoth?
drifting cloud
bote - lucid strife breath
maiden raptor
and here i thought humming isn't that good on sin 
drifting cloud
well its nothing special, but Im not a fant of font for aotc boosts and vita can just proc at bad times on the fight
maiden raptor
i see
proper quarry
can someone show me what their stat weights look like?
delicate fern
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
delicate fern
just check wowcraftlogs and look at some of the best rogues in the world @proper quarry it helps alot
proper quarry
ahh my mistake didn't realize it would be in pins. Thanks.
cobalt pelican
how good stats are heavily depends on what corruptions you're playing
hasted corruptions, or %haste = you generally like haste
unhasted corruptions such as appendage, or crit damage etc = you might like crit
it gets very complicated beyond simple explanations like that though which is why simming yourself frequently is the answer
proper quarry
Yeah I was just curious if its generally the same 2 stats for everyone but I was too dumb to check pins. rn my rogue is crit>haste
but yeah ty
frozen karma
yeah my stats have been pretty much everywhere these last 2-3 weeks but with my new ring I think haste will be king for a while
maiden raptor
Do our dots scale with haste?
i'm pretty sure i read something about that somewhere but not sure actually
drifting cloud
they do
maiden raptor
in want regard tho? Do they tick faster?
near pilot
Am i crazy for considering the corruption drop? part me of feels being able to just take it to he face would make up for the dps loss
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vDET4b5MkXiuA6zjf4xZJL
purifying dagger that is
cobalt pelican
ya they just tick slightly faster
i'd purify the wrists before the dagger
and i'd only do that if i had some alternatives
near pilot
stars is way more dps than twisted for single target tho
i do have the 455 dag in bags
drifting cloud
next week the 65 is 58 which is playable but IS isnt really good on most fights
near pilot
just a sim monster?
near pilot
lol was about to paste my maut log lol then saw what you wrote
cobalt pelican
i like stars more than most people but i'd never commit the majority of my corruption budget to it unless i knew what i was progressing ahead of time
and purifying something that's good everywhere to make room for an item that's good sometimes just isn't a great plan
like if you know you're going to be hitting shadhar for 3hs during progress stars owns but for a 12/12 heroic clear it'd be ass more often than not
near pilot
anytime theres more than 2 targets IS def drops off
drifting cloud
I currently have is3 and a under 40 set
im probably gonna test is3 on every fight I just suspect im not gonna run it on any boss pass xanesh
and even xanesh its probably meh, did you run it there fairy?
near pilot
was just looking at my xanesh, and i only had my 455 dagger at the point, they were pretty close
drifting cloud
keep in mind it also sims good because its well you know 75 corr
cobalt pelican
i played it by accident on reclear
first kill was still ev week
p good on kill pull
still did no damage cause i was playing like a monkey and doing orb
all the other 'reclear' pulls of the night are in there too, some stack faster than others ofc but it's pretty fine on avg to play i think
drifting cloud
clf on xanesh
cobalt pelican
god even just looking at this log makes me feel bad, we were doing speed depletes so that some people could learn the orbs
and i wasn't even pressing my buttons
drifting cloud
isnt the fight like exactly 6min
cobalt pelican
and then it randomly died
nah 6:30ish
first kill was 6:50 but we had only 1/4 healers on orbs
2nd was 6:30 after ev nerf, could prolly get to 6:00 if all 4 healers took
drifting cloud
hopefully it dies monday
near pilot
yeah swapping bracers out and closest sim is 6k less lol
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ndecSVjnfgncGJGLPqF8iY
cobalt pelican
like i was actually considering playing vop to get vend off before the void ritual
but then i was on the 3min void ritual
and it lined up with my own orb
and i was like
uh
tribal marlin
on mythic I just played CLF and delayed vendetta to 3:00 because at 2:00ish there were some adds to kill xD
shit timer for 2mn cd holder
drifting cloud
from my 20 pulls I went bote and used my 2nd cds on 2nd add
but yeah if fight is close to 6 on average you lose 1set of cds anyways
not like my guild has insane dmg or anything
cobalt pelican
none of our ads were living long enough to pop cds on really unless i flew across the room to them
so i was just kinda awkwardly popping on boss
tribal marlin
I can't play bote I already have to much critical strike for it to be worth it unfortunately
drifting cloud
yeah thats what I was doing, I had 2nd interrupt 1st add
then I just ran to 2nd add
charging up before my interrupt, seemed to work fine
cobalt pelican
i'd try and figure something better out but since i'll be on orbs from now till the day i die i've written off doing damage on that fight anyway
drifting cloud
but yeah like I said basically barely any pulls
also im not on orb duty so yeah
were kinda doing 2 different fights
cobalt pelican
i was the person who wrote up the initial assignments and i put myself in for some reason
it was an internal struggle like
'i want to kill the boss' 'but i want to do dam'
and now that they're set they won't ev er change
drifting cloud
I was surprised to see im not on them, but I guess Im on avereage pretty high on dam so thats maybe why
cobalt pelican
i think 1tank2heal 1tank2heal and then 3mins has like firemages outside combust or some shit and 4th is just whoever draws the short straw is probably best
but meh
i think if i wasn't on the 3min set i'd genuinely consider playing vop
and do like
vend on cd
vanish subterfuge garrotes boss and ad1
or some shit like that
no idea if it'd be better than just playing normal shit and trucking the boss like an ape but it sounds like it would in my head at least
drifting cloud
oh yeah do I have to sim bote vop subt with no font
how much worse can it really be hmm
drifting cloud
I guess probably worse because of font
cobalt pelican
but that's with deadeyes instead of vita
drifting cloud
also yeah vita gains alot of value when I have IS3 equipped
cobalt pelican
i play expedient 3 and expedient 2 rn and vita at 460 is like +500 over my 435 socket font but
drifting cloud
so a 460 socket is probably equal to a 475?
cobalt pelican
i gaqve away like 4 vitas in a row
cause it was a 'sidegrade' at that time
still not s ure on this whole haste shit but
it's the gear i got so
i'm runnin with it
tribal marlin
dunno I dropped it 475 socket + speed on my 1st raden kill. I had to give it to hunter even if I told my RL it was giga BiS
cobalt pelican
feels like the haste build is just like stars except without stars in that you lose so much value as soon as you add targets
tribal marlin
and finally I ended up with that one ...
drifting cloud
I guess were gonna be farming sockets fast pretty soon
tribal marlin
and all of this because I dropped that shit trinket out of my chest
and was stupid enough to equip it
cobalt pelican
i want to add a bunch of mastery stuff to a top gear sim and see if i can actually get shrouded to not being ass
drifting cloud
thats too much of a pipe dream I think
tribal marlin
They also gave that SAME hunter MY Razor Coral 450 socket 😦
I start to hate him a lot
near pilot
just tried double appendage w/o IS for a 40 corruption in a pug maut, pug wiped at end of first stoen phase and it our damaged what IS did in kill
worldly trail
any trinket or item advice ?
and should i use bomb on engineering head ? sims better for me instead other trait
bombs better ? anyone use ? 😄
arctic walrus
Don’t sim dungeon slice and keep using the normalization trait
worldly trail
wtf i didnt know i sim dungeon slice KEKW
summer cedar
Anyone pull off a 5 mask full vision clear yet? 4 is doable with the right azerite and gear, but 5 is a whole other beast
civic hatch
Any suggestions for sin essences for visions? Seems like you need some crazy burst for rexxar seeing as we don’t have outlaw cleave for the pigs?
light pebble
In raid am i saving up coral stacks to use on my font+vendetta or do i just use it on CD?
summer cedar
Same ones i use for M+. bote, vop, lucid, and breath of the dying
Purification protocol is pretty good too cause there are a lot of aberrations
dim plinth
Hi guys, I am getting versatility stat on almost everything. Is the assassination spec bound to prioritize this one? My issue is here that it drags down all the other stats. So upgrade for higher ilvl will cost me crit chance as well as haste
if I'd like to get crit/haste on weapons, should I set loot spec to different specialisation ?
its just annoying, like if I want higher ilvl I have to trade it for slower char in general
in exchange for like 3k health
day 12 of no crit/haste drop on weapons/trinkets
shy dust
Just sim whats best with top gear and go from there.
crimson palm
@cobalt pelican im at 62% mastery and ss is still ass
2k dps downgrade on ST on average with subt
shy dust
Use the top gear option on raidbots.
mint echo
whats better to m+ dungs? Rank 3 devastation or echoing void+some secondary stat boosters?
strange python
my gut says td
swift sparrow
whats the uptime on mecha ring set (the one that gives you haste if you hit from behind) ?
iron heath
Is bombs another sim bait ?
strange python
kinda yeah @iron heath
uptime on mechagon ring haste proc is 99-100% for hit from behind, and around 95% for 3 spells
tacit wing
whats the correct opener with subterfuge on bosses in m+?
shut garnet
g rup g vend tb blood env
preferably you have 2CP when starting the fight so you can 5CP rupture buuut it’s no biggie
river zinc
im having a hard time learning the BotE sin stuff. I just have a couple questions
- For the opener with MA we use Mutilate->if it doesnt crit Mutilate again-> Rupture->Garrote->Vendetta->Mutilate->Toxic Blade->BotE->Envenom
is that correct?
rigid mango
river zinc
so CLF and BotE are the same basically is what you're saying
rigid mango
You should see a fundamental diff
river zinc
ok then next question since BotE has a 1.5min Cd is it ever correct to use it without Vendetta?
rigid mango
Unless the boss'll die before vend comes up and you're just finishing the boss off
Nah.
rigid mango
Yeah, it's no longer pinned 😄
mild bane
in the pins re: BoTE, what does EB stand for?
mild bane
ahh I see because of the extra crit value, ty
mighty elm
@distant lava so how many appendages u got 
distant lava
carapace dagger, rank1 on 465 ring, rank1 on 475 bracers and rank3 on 460 gloves
so 7
feral shuttle
Pog
mighty elm
I guess we can be friends then, I got 2 x carapace dagger and 475 wrist with r3
mighty elm
distant lava
I'm blue now 
mighty elm
Gave my fellow guildie 400k for the 2nd dagger 
And I won’t be using this for a month probably 
feral shuttle
What are you simming at with those?
distant lava
not that high
I just simmed what I was using
can probably be higher with WV and stuff but kinda cba
and I'm not playing subt
velvet plume
How to i min max on single target? wanna see if i can pull of some more DPS. The Sim is run out of a Wrathion Mythic perspective
feral shuttle
Ty
velvet plume
anyone that can help with how to get more dps on single target?
scarlet sequoia
some weak sims ngl
velvet plume
teach me sempai
velvet plume
You wanna play Lucid major then i guess
scarlet sequoia
its prolly gonna be blood major, lucid, breath and conflict minors
no i mean vision
lucid breath vision minors blood major
velvet plume
really vision is that good ?
scarlet sequoia
on wrathion yes
buoyant kraken
What makes it so good for wrathion? Lines up vendetta and Bote after every intermission?
gusty mirage
@rigid mango subt is simming higher than MA for me (it's like 80 dps higher lol), but opening with a 1pt garrote just feels wrong. Do I tell the sim to fly a kite and just run MA? Because running subt base line lets me switch to my m+ gear for trash padding 
tribal marlin
Subter simming higher than MA is often due to Bote + Razor coral
gusty mirage
thats what I was thinking, because man having a 1pt opener is kinda.... underwhelming
tribal marlin
As my example I have 45% crit unbuff in raid
when I use Bote + Coral during Vendetta I have 100% crit
so MA just is a worthless talent in that setup, Subter is simming 750dps more for me
like MA or no talent is the same, but it's just an APL tricks, in fact I can just use vanish and BotE after or not vanish during bote
rigid mango
The haste heavy build that raz is running still wants MA
mighty elm
@scarlet sequoia get your bitch ass consistent sim out of here, I’ll have you know 1 out of 10 pulls my tentacles would blast your haste away
rigid mango
But generally anyone who's stacking crit to any form will see it be better
gusty mirage
yeah I have pretty high crit passively (I think I'm at like.... 38%ish?) and I run bote most fights, with coral & blood I consistently am at or close to 100% crit. Is it worth memeing around in heroic with 3x SS? lol
tribal marlin
No
SS is just a shit talent in ST, subter or not
probably only good if you sim <1mn
(not even sure)
gusty mirage
Yeah, but I just want to mess around a bit. My old guild asked me to help them with heroic progression and I need something to make the constant wiping more entertaining
tribal marlin
ye
found it
here I changed a bit the APL to remove the condition on vanish use with BotE
Defaut condition is With Toxic blade up and Blood debuff up. I removed the TB debuff condition and swaped the "into BOTE" condition with "not into bote"
I mean, the TL:DR is that : it's not MA which is bad with BotE, it's just the way the APL use vanish which is incorrect while having both.
tribal marlin
oh and this is also due because of Razor coral
like the best way would be to do normal rotation during 1st vendetta and then delay vanish to after bote buff
crimson sleet
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3Wo2GBt2J5ATpn4ni9ARwH ill do 54k on The hound boss. how can i get more dmg overall ?
gusty mirage
from just looking at that, rank 3 essences are huge
if you mean like actual performance wise rather than simming, post any logs if you have them
crimson sleet
performance seems ok i guess. dont have any logs u.u next week rank 3 essence. i hope overll is better then
gusty mirage
sims should be taken with a grain of salt compared to actual performance. That dps is based on 35k iterations as opposed to just one fight and patchwerk is you just sitting on the boss the entire time whereas the actual fight you usually won't have 100% uptime on the boss because you're dodging mechanics, etc. Plus kill timer for your group will likely not line up exactly (or at all) with the sim's timer
think of it like this, that sim is your max potential dps on a boss
so being 5k off on a boss where you'd have to occasionally run out when targeted with the blob isn't too bad 🙂
crimson sleet
yeah. buzt how can i Push my Max sim Dps more? i mean witch items should i focus on / witch essences etc 😄
tribal marlin
hehe
I even found an EVEN BETTER usage
which is Vanish FIRST then use Blood
xD
mild bane
I have seen advice on wowhead guide saying (after opener) to hold vendetta for vanish but then I see logs that pop 2nd vanish at a time period at the end of the vendetta window like this: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yWjTQLh6NHAqdpwb#fight=3&type=casts&view=timeline&source=20
is it because this player got in the 3 GCDs from vanish perfectly at end of vendetta?
last night I was trying to line things up and I felt like I was holding vendetta too long
strange python
@tribal marlin how do i sim myself with your changes?
tribal marlin
Go to the sim I linked
Click on "raw input"
scroll a bit once you find the line "copy="new"
copy paste everything below it.
then do a new advanced sim, copy paste your own simc import first, then copy past the new apl
strange python
ah okay so you always have to supply the entire apl not just the changed bits?
tribal marlin
I don't know
you can probably just suppy the changed bits but I never tested this
I always copy the whole thing
static wind
M+ question: I know that dungeon slice is not great for us. Is there a better suggestion for sims?
strange python
okay thanks
tribal marlin
Imagine TB being baseline and we play both TB and Exsg 😮
tropic ocean
think theres not much higher burst than ss subt and exsang
besides combustion
like on ashvane in speedkill rogue peaked 800kdps
😄
close to 900k
mild bane
do any of you guys switch to outlaw for M+ or do you just focus on knowing which azerite/essences to use in different dungeons and affixes?
tropic ocean
you pretty much alwas use 3x ss + x
2-3 echoing blades for trash heavy dungeons, bbi, ttk, etc for kr/siege/temple
mild bane
err sorry what do bbi and ttk mean?
vast forum
tbh the speedkills were loyal stacking @tropic ocean
but yea SS/subt/deeper/exsg is the way to go for super short fights
tropic ocean
I just play whatever I feel like
cuz tentacle gang rape everything
probably should stack all vers to support them
mint kindle
Hey. I'm looking ath the best warcraft logs right now and a lot of them take "Internal Bleeding". Is that a reason behind that, or just random?
rigid mango
There's fights like ilgy, vex etc where there's an add that can be kidney'd with some dps
mint kindle
Interesting. Thanks
vapid geode
do you guys think echoing void 0.60% is worth it? for mythic +
final hull
boys ? is worthy wearing both ra-den trinkets or is better wearing coral and font
final hull
!!!! already did it
rigid mango
So?
final hull
1 % dps upgrade for me
rigid mango
And?
vapid geode
@rigid mango It's my only corruption piece besides a +75 corruption infinite stars but my infinite stars is 430 ilvl compared to 470 current
rigid mango
Then it's better than nothing 😄
EV isn't amazing, it's pretty bad, but it's better than not having any corr.
strange python
wait @rigid mango in the pinned message you said echoing void is good?
pin was pre-nerf
outer acorn
which essence should i be using as major? rank 2 bote, rank 3 CoF, rank 2 botd or rank 1 CLF
for single target
royal lantern
simming yourself will give you the best answer for that
jaunty crystal
Most likely cof until you get the others to rank 3. Still sim yourself tho.
subtle tundra
how would i go about simming a full mastery set with mastery corruptions if i dont have any of those?
rigid mango
Gear compare
subtle tundra
that would take ages 
royal lantern
getting good results takes some time
strange python
for M+ when running 3 Echoing blades and 2 shrouded suff. how many targets do you generally try and keep bleeds up on. I feel like every global im not hitting FoK im losing dps.
trying to ffind the sweetspot for how many bleeds i have up without losing dps to apply them
royal lantern
5bleeds is where you are energy neutral if you slam stuff on the gcd
+dont always go by DPS in m+, it doesnt really say much tbh
shy axle
@tropic ocean how many TA pieces are you using?
royal lantern
i rather take somone that is focusing more on the high priority targets then a aoe spammer that wants higher dps numbers
royal lantern
how did you get so much crit/mastery anyway lol
tribal marlin
it's in combat
I had 1500 honey mind proc
with 24% increased mastery from all sources
fleet whale
so how would an opener with Breath of the dying look like? and do you just use on CD throughout the fight?
strange python
Just use it where you used CLF usually. Don't think someone figured out something better? No Idea though.
You use it on CD in Singletarget, unless the Boss will Hit sub 20 in under 30 Seconds. To make use of the CD reduction of 30 secs.
And generally you also hold If adds are about to spawn in unser 30 Seconds for the same reason (Just the above 80 rule now). And then you can hold it for the execute for Double damage and 5sec CD on the add, and Pump that one into whatever. Depends on the Fight, sometimes it goes into the next add etc.
E.g. Skitra you use it one or two Times on the Boss, then you can get an execute in the add that Players Spawn, then you can use the powered up Shot on the Illusion add above 80 and then you can maybe execute that add again thanks to the lowered CD. Then you could use the powered up shot to execute the next add that Players Spawn etc.
On wrathion you can snipe tooons of pillars
On maut you can use it on the adds for CD reduction
On raden it won't work on the orbs, but it will work on the big adds where you can usually get one above 80 and one execute in
On shadhar it's Just normal Rules cuz no adds
Drestagath you get Tons of executes obviously
fleet whale
alright, thank you for the insight/advice
strange python
Nzoth you can execute all the small Tentacles and Pump a big one into a 5/6 Stack psychus and then use it 2 Times on Nzoth himself. And then get value in the big Tentacle Phase and on thought Harvester s
Etc.
shy axle
many people switched to breath major or still a odd one out?
strange python
Sim it. For some its the best Major flat-out for Singletarget. For many it's Close behind.
If its Close behind, it's still the best option for Fights with adds over CLF because of the many CD reductions you get from those adds.
Thats obviously not accounted for in a Patchwerk Sim, since its Patchwerk :P
pseudo hamlet
Is the Ra-den trinkets combo any good? The HC version compared the mythic font/coral? Simming them right now.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ec3bJRVcVda8imX8mLEEps ok, they're not
rigid mango
Nothing beats coral
pseudo hamlet
Coral+Vita seems nice "just" 500 dps less, but at least won't have to click and wait for the whole cast time. 🤔
rigid mango
Vita becomes better the more expidient pieces you have
pseudo hamlet
@rigid mango what do you mean?
pseudo hamlet
Oh, didn't know about that. Thanks for clarification.
rigid mango
Raz per example, has 3x 12% haste increase pieces
And vita sims best
He's also at like, 81k sim or smth.
pseudo hamlet
81k, that's crazy
frigid sleet
out of curiosity hows the difference between 2x r1 twilight devastation and a single r2 or r3 of it
vast forum
2x r1 = 1x r2
tribal marlin
I did a few sims with my own profile (around 23% haste), vita was -1.5% with no Expedient, +0% with 1 Expedient3 and +1.5%with 2 Expedient3 (no proc haste, 2 OP)
I do believe also that Gushing Wound is hasted
tribal marlin
making vita simming pretty good with some GW
rigid mango
Yeah GW is hasted
tall peak
i'm a bit confused on the m+ build i wanna be running, is there any chance of the traits i should have?
do i need 3 echoing blades?
tropic ocean
@shy axle 2x
bitter rock
So my buddy has only about 4ilvls on me on his unholy dk, yet is simming like 7k higher in dps, outside of getting a 75 neck can you guys help me figure out what I'm missing?
subtle tundra
better corruptions and trinkets
higher ilvl daggers
also lucid dream minor
how do you even play without it
bitter rock
He doesn't have any crazy corruptions, think he only uses the mindflay one
whenever I simmed it it was usually lower
¯_(ツ)_/¯
drifting cloud
my dude you sim less than I simmed in october
drifting cloud
you also arent 75
drifting cloud
yes, but even at r1 its probably better than than crucible
bitter rock
okay
drifting cloud
dont quote me on it tho
bitter rock
also I've heard vision of perfection got buffed would that be any good now?
drifting cloud
not for rogues
yeah its 60 corr but your cloak is only 5
at 75 you just equip breath, at r3 breath is bis anyways
and you need lucid3
pine torrent
whats the go to essence combo
subtle tundra
whatever major sims best, lucid dreams minor, breath minor, whatever minor sims best
tacit wing
what drops the bis azerite pieces for m+?
gusty panther
Hey guys
is it worth in keys to keep garrote and rupture up on all targets in keys
tacit wing
pvp? is it an rng drop?
pine torrent
ely droptimize it
gusty panther
or just rupture garrote your MT and keep deadly poison on the other targets
pine torrent
3 targets andrew
pine torrent
iirc
gusty panther
sweet ty
drifting cloud
dont recast garrote outside of stealth on aoe
pine torrent
if you have shrouded suff and the garrote talent
drifting cloud
its not worth it
pine torrent
only 3
rupture as many as possible
then fan spam and envenom when you overcap energy
gusty panther
so from stealth garrote fan fan rupture fan fan fan ruptre fan fan fan rupture
pine torrent
stealth
gusty panther
fan fan enven fan fan enven?
pine torrent
garrote garroe garrote
gusty panther
oooo
pine torrent
then fan until 4/5
rupture
and continue
until you are perma full energy
then envenom
not entirely sure but i think 3+ targets and fan is better than mut for damage
tacit wing
so i got to do pvp and hope for an rng drop or can i buy it from a vendor in some way?
drifting cloud
ss/eb is on every slot from vendor
but there also some from pvp, just dont know how many slots exactly
not really worth it, it just exists
tacit wing
ah ok
pine torrent
also andrew go get yourself a good weakaura
tacit wing
the residuum grind is real
tribal marlin
https://i.imgur.com/eirso8W.png
https://i.imgur.com/aqjZRA2.png
why did we ever stopped playing mastery ....
subtle tundra
because we play whats best
zinc coyote
Because we don’t have 150% anymore lol
grim cedar
havent played my rogue in a good few months, im rocking razor coral and a 430 font of power, is font simming correctly? it's simming 800 dps higher than any of the current 460 trinkets at 30ilvls lower?
patent topaz
welcome to 8.3
zinc coyote
Yup
cobalt flame
Does master assasin work on breath of dying major use?
rigid mango
n
cobalt flame
