you just proved yourself wrong
#assassination
subtle tundra
rugged tundra
Lol
rigid mango
a lot
white wyvern
You saying Seli got carried? 
rugged tundra
U crazy
arctic galleon
Sin isn’t rocket science in keys tbh
rugged tundra
He top nothing
subtle tundra
dude
rigid mango
LOL
rugged tundra
U So funny
subtle tundra
you're embarassing
rugged tundra
Nikolei rekt hin
rigid mango
honest vessel
whys this guy think hes right when everyone else says hes wrong
white wyvern
I am surprised we all let him go on for as long as he did.
subtle tundra
dps yes
rigid mango
On par with yeah
rugged tundra
It was u guys saying?
honest vessel
worse for control
rugged tundra
Ok
rigid mango
+- situationally better.
honest vessel
comparable with dmg
rugged tundra
All right
echo cargo
Sin players have bigger penises because the rotation is more complex
rigid mango
Does better overall than outlaw
rugged tundra
All right
honest vessel
what was that talent that gave us 10 cp
valid sphinx
Both specs would be fine to bring to a +24 so play whatever
honest vessel
i want that for ss build
scarlet sequoia
anticipation
valid sphinx
I bet sub would actually own in m+ too though rogues are just good
honest vessel
ye
white wyvern
Just because you can't play the spec optimally doesn't mean it is worse.
rugged tundra
U do?
rigid mango
Outlaw is generally better because it always works
honest vessel
why does that matter
rigid mango
And it's simpler
rugged tundra
Thats it
honest vessel
^
rigid mango
And has situational usage
Where it just is better
But yes, the damage gain might not be worth it compared to just playinig outlaw
rugged tundra
Overall man
rigid mango
Hence +- situationally good.
scarlet sequoia
assa is easier to play than outlaw in m+ rofl
rigid mango
It isn't
rugged tundra
Idc about few situation
rigid mango
but ok
scarlet sequoia
ofc it is
scarlet sequoia
bleed 123 fok
rigid mango
go next idc
honest vessel
idk i play outlaw mostly in keys, what makes assa complicated?
scarlet sequoia
being a bit biased here zine ngl but ok
honest vessel
actually interested
rigid mango
I play both
scarlet sequoia
its not complicated at all
rigid mango
scarlet sequoia
outlaw skillcap is much higher than assa
rugged tundra
Sin is ez
subtle tundra
m+ parses 
honest vessel
lul
valid sphinx
How could managing bleeds on 4+ mobs be easier than literally just doing a single target rotation with blade flurry up
rigid mango
Idk, you're saying biased but we're just diff opinions
rugged tundra
Show me varas
rigid mango
not much more
honest vessel
outlaws rotation is free, but roll logic is complicated
most rotations are just muscle memory anyway
rugged tundra
U talk like a god tier who pwn anyone prove it.
honest vessel
keeping dots up has a learninf curve but its a simple conxept and gets ez with practice
valid sphinx
Put like that, outlaw rotation is literally sinister strike -> finisher
honest vessel
yeah its free
white wyvern
Neither spec is hard. Outlaw will always do fine. Sin has it's niches and playing to them is very strong.
subtle tundra
imagine saying any class is hard 
honest vessel
id also argue that having more utility means you have to make more decisions about when to use tools and how
hazy iron
I agree that reroll logic is more difficult than sin bleeds and FoK, but I think thr challenge for sin is ensuring you bleed the right targets that live the longest
honest vessel
fair!
white wyvern
How is enemy casting bad spell > gouge hard?
subtle tundra
guys
white wyvern
What did you say?
rigid mango
I'd say rotationally, assa is harder because of having differing priorities when you want to optimise on diff target counts
But outlaw has utility stuff you need to know and do
honest vessel
agree
rigid mango
If you factor in knowing that, maybe outlaw is just as hard or a bit harder
valid sphinx
Both too hard for me smh I’m gonna play my ret pally
honest vessel
;)
rigid mango
but baseline rotation I don't think either is hard but assa is harder
Saying reroll stuff is hard is fucking 
gusty nebula
Not to disrupt this delightful discussion, but I've recently rolled from MT to rogue. Playing Sin on single target fights and outlaw on m+ and aoe fights.
rigid mango
And saying doing the same rotation with the addition of BF is hard is
gusty nebula
The amount of sims I am doing is driving me insane
hazy iron
At the end of the day, neither are difficult to pump good numbers, both have a high skill ceiling at top level play, and arguing about it is a different kind of special
gusty nebula
Anyone else have that issue?
valid sphinx
Dps is harder than tanking for sure.. gotta worry about min maxing and mechanics other than taunt at 8 stacks 😂
gusty nebula
Maybe it's just coming from a tank perspective, but dear god. Essences, stats corruption all change at the slightest difference. >_<
honest vessel
tanking scares me
gusty nebula
@valid sphinx Oh, that surprises me. I actually switched to dps because I wanted an easier role, bit more braindead.
So far, feels like a vacation in terms of gameplay
Just the administrative outside of game is frustrating
honest vessel
thats how i felt when i swapped too :p
tropic ocean
@valid sphinx i dont think sin or outlaw rotation on aoe are harder/easier
in outlaw u press different finisher/builder
in sin u just press fok
and dot every x sec
pretty braindead both
valid sphinx
Yeah I’m just being a dick
gusty nebula
Ah fair.
hazy iron
Same, i'm naturally a dick
valid sphinx
The only hard part of the game is knowing mob mechanics
hazy iron
With big dick envenoms
honest vessel
and weights are so unstable
gusty nebula
Well, it's not the first time I heard it to be fair. A lot of people seem to think Tank is the easiest role.
gusty nebula
Not sure why. I got CE on tank and am progging mythic hard now as dps, and dps is just 100% easier so far.
valid sphinx
i main tanked in legion cutting edge content for a while and it was the most boring thing ive ever done in this game
honest vessel
but actually doing it i was terrible
gusty nebula
Sure, it depends on boss
hazy iron
I find tanking stressful
valid sphinx
tank mistakes have a higher price for the group, but the mechanics are much easier
honest vessel
dps you just get to come for the ride
gusty nebula
But you have barely anything to pay attention to as dps. The mechanics are all incredibly simple and you just kinda...tunnel into your rotation for dps
valid sphinx
also im talking raid atm, mythic plus tanking is difficult and fun
gusty nebula
I disagree with that strongely as well Jaron.
Some fights, sure. They are designed to be challenging for dps or healers, and as tank you just kinda sit there.
But Queen Azshara on mythic was a gazillion times more hectic as tank than anything as dps Ive seen
valid sphinx
as a cherry picked example, azshara is certainly not an easy tank fight, but almost every other fight in that entire raid was "don't stand in obvious fire and taunt swap at x stacks"
gusty nebula
I mean, if that's all you do as a tank, I guess?
Feels cherry picking mechanics though. Tanking is much more about paying attention to your healers, positioning based on dps and mechanics happening for them, while often doing stuff the dps have to do as well.,
But we'll see. I've done CE every tier so far as tank, maybe I'll change my mind once we're on carapace or something. v0v
tropic ocean
well for m+ I think dps is the most skill-capped slot
gusty nebula
Really wanted to try dps'ing for once, and it just seems so.... easy. Comparitively.
tropic ocean
as theres 3 of them and you're basically in charge of all interrupts/cc etc
valid sphinx
high keys are just difficult for everybody imo
tropic ocean
or to phrase it differently
valid sphinx
healer skill and knowledge is huge
tropic ocean
the consequences of dps failing are far bigger
than heal
e.g.
as most likely group will wipe
honest vessel
the worst for me was boss positioning, shits finicky
valid sphinx
yeah certainly some validity to that i think.. but when you get up to pushing 20 level keys, if your healer isnt doing 40k+ overall damage and knowing exactly when to pump heals vs not heal at all, youre not timing it
granted if the dps misses one important interrupt or stun youre not timing it either
mythic plus just hard content tbh
tiny sierra
im trying to figure out something with simming. Is the only way for me to see if an enchant is better than another one is to sim with one enchant and then buy the other, equip it and sim that version as well?
im trying to figure out weather to put deadly/quick nav or force multiplier on my mh
tropic blade
Load into Top gear and scroll down - you can tell it to replace current enchants
hallow coyote
Top Gear lets you picked between available encahnts
main blaze
hallow coyote
E::FB
tropic blade
And then select all the ones you want to compare
tiny sierra
so select the replace existing gem/enchants?
this is super confusing, im just trying to figure out which enchant is better and its making me select items to compare to items in my bags? im sorry im really new at this
opal minnow
if you just want enchant variations scroll to the bottom, select repalce existing enchants, and then click the ones you want to compare in either/both MH/OH
it will only sim your currently equipped gear with whatever enchants you selected
tiny sierra
and then i click find top gear?
tiny sierra
It keeps giving me an error message
Top Gear requires at least two combinations. Make sure to select some additional items, enhancements, or talents
woeful minnow
you need to select all the enchants you want to sim
opal minnow
corruption too high
move the slider at the top to the right
or consider using less corruption.
tiny sierra
ok cool got it
if it is saying that does that mean i shouldnt have as much corruption? or is that just a setting
opal minnow
its just a setting. default is caped at 39 iirc
tiny sierra
cause i asked in here earlier about it and people said 58 corruption is fine to deal with
okay cool
thank you so so much for the help
can i use this top gear feature to sim different essence builds as well?
subtle tundra
does the crit damage corruption work on echoing blades?
celest sail
so with the ss/eb build, do we just not envenom after our garrotes and rupture?
literally just spam fok unless you have CT also?
vast forum
depends on targetcount and whether or not there's a prio target
celest sail
yea, but just in general, let's say a normal like 4 mob pull with no priority
hallow coyote
Wouldn't you still want to EV to increase poison proc rate for FoK?
drowsy snow
It’s 5 fok because of bote buff
celest sail
ah
drowsy snow
It’s not the rotation, it’s just the opener
stoic violet
Just got Darkwood Sentinel's Guise. It says it's #2 BiS for sin single target, is Ancient's Bulwark really better than Double Dose?
tribal marlin
Hello guys I need your help
I got this today, but it sim like 1.5% under my font, I was wondering if it is due to not enough scaling
or if it will go better with Expedient3 or if I should just give it to someone else
tribal marlin
ye make sense
rigid mango
And expidents are kinda BiS, so take it as you will
I think raz is simming 80k with a 3x t3 expident setup and vita
rigid mango
Yep, he got all the pieces
tribal marlin
oh well I will just keep it, it'll drop again anyway
we 2 pulled ra-den today (reclear)
hardy sandal
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
stoic violet
So about that ancient's Bulwark. Is it really as good as bloodmallet says it is?
runic prairie
Should i cleanse the dagger from carapace? Or bank it until I can use it?
So I have a rank 3 infinite stars boots (75 corruption) and the dagger from carapace (35 corruption) . With my cloak and essence granting 45 resistance I can wear the boots (which sim more than using the dagger + other corrpution) putting me at 30 corruption. For mythic progression I dont want to go over 40 corruption since a lot of the fights require stacking. (I'm 2/12 m atm). But I want to use both the boots and the daggers since the 470 dagger would replace a 440. (Also using a 455 dagger). Next week cloaks upgrade gives use 42 resistance. Which would allow me to wear both the boots and the dagger
But be at 58 corruption. This would be worrisome for mythic progression. Do you think I should cleanse the dagger so I get the ilvl dagger upgrade? Or hold out and keep trying for other daggers until many weeks to get my cloak maxed out. But I would still be at 50 corruption even with max cloak
gusty mirage
@stoic violet if I had to guess is that it's quite a bit of vers for doing what you'd be doing anyway on a boss which is standing there stabbing it with your pointy sticks
maiden raptor
What something went over my head what is expident? Or what are you guys referring to
gusty mirage
@runic prairie imo I'd hold out on using the boots until you get more corruption resist because having a 470 dagger alone is huge for your damage in all situations unless you want to cleanse it
rigid mango
The haste % increase
gusty mirage
@maiden raptor the haste from all sources corrupt
rigid mango
= expident
stoic violet
@gusty mirage True. before I equipped it, I figured it was like "stand still for 5 seconds and you get this buff" but it's literally like, you ALWAYS have 346 vers, and the second you press W you heal for like 2k/second.
gusty mirage
which is kinda nice for a lot of fights too where you're taking a lot of dmg 🙂
runic prairie
@gusty mirage but using the boots sims for more damage than using the dagger by a considerable amount. I forget exactly, but it was by a few thousand
gusty mirage
yeah because infinite stars is really damn good for ST dmg, that's why I hate this new corrupted system because it makes finding an upgrade a gigantic pain in the ass. So much for the whole blizz concept of "We want you to be able to easily determine an upgrade"
subtle tundra
infinite stars is good until you go to xanesh and realise it procs on adds when you're not even close to them
gusty mirage
^
keep both and I guess just switch between them until you can get enough corruption resist to run both
rough agate
gusty mirage
maiden raptor
So what other corruptions are bis for is? Like for aoe i'd assume Td. But what for single target? Sims tell me that my mindflay should be pretty good but it feels not so good apart from pvp
gusty mirage
ST bis as far as I know is still gushing wounds on a high ilvl item & infinite stars
subtle tundra
mostly whatever the game gives you
because its hard for blizz to make a new system enjoyable
lusty narwhal
Im really starting to hate corruption
gusty mirage
like my rank 2 severe on a haste mastery ring 
distant lava
just buy boes 
subtle tundra
and get more haste for m+ 😦
gusty mirage
my favorite was my rank 3 versatile corrupt 
arctic walrus
is mindflay proc hasted
cobalt pelican
n
arctic walrus
but IS is?
subtle tundra
i hate both and i only have both for single target
cobalt pelican
nop
arctic walrus
100%
honest needle
is there a mouseover macro for posion knife ? can some 1 link me i heard it stops thing from beyon so we can run over 50 corruption
over 40 i mean
cobalt pelican
/cast [@mouseover, harm, nodead] poisoned knife
doesn't stop the thing though
just applies crippling to it
faint spoke
I see most people play master assasin for st, but my sims keep saying subter is better, do I trust the sim?
honest needle
depends
what azerite do u have
if u have ss then u want subterfuge
if you have DD NP TTK u want master assasin
strange python
some sim better even with 0 SS this patch
distant lava
yeah
honest needle
i dont use ss at all
cobalt pelican
tbh i actually have no idea what causes subterfuge to do that like
faint spoke
I have a ss azerite right now, but I can change it for envenom, I sim them both, it says I should play subter without SS
cobalt pelican
sure it 'scales better' but it's not even clear what it's scaling better from
modest tendon
Yep I sim well with subt and 0 ss
cobalt pelican
because it's seemingly random who it's better for and who not
modest tendon
It’s weird
strange python
but running subt is really clunky since you delay it at start, idk
cobalt pelican
i guess it must be something to do with the opener being janked the fuck up at certain haste levels
strange python
what does it look like with worldvein?
strange python
from what i've seen in top logs using subt with no SS they don't even vanish in the opener, first cast is in 2nd vendetta
honest needle
ya with ss u save vanish to refresh your garrote
in the pandemic window
to get the extra seconds
only with MA u vanish in opner
cobalt pelican
you definitely use your vanish before 2nd vend
strange python
I would imagine the optimal way is to vanish after your opener garotte runs out
then delay 2nd vend if kill time allows it
cobalt pelican
not with subterfuge but no shrouded really no
there's added value from shrouded cause of the cps, beyond the pandemic damage
versed mica
it would probably be better so that you are using vanish sooner, and thus don't have to wait on 2nd Vendetta as long now that I think about it
Also, I know that echoing void was nerfed, but it's straight up doing worse in dungeonslice than it is in ST
Why is that?
is it just dslice being garbage again?
strange python
as long as you don't lose a vendetta it doesn't really matter how long you delay it
cobalt pelican
ev is capped at 175% total damage on multi target, stats scale kinda infinitely
strange python
guys any macro to use step in Jade Statue?
someone like that /cast [target=Jade Serpent Statue] Shadowstep
warm parcel
cannot use names like that
in brackets only accepts stuff like player names or boss1 arena1 etc
warm parcel
sure
cobalt pelican
just set it on your focus if you're using it for a specific thing
strange python
Shad`har mythic
warm parcel
./targetlasttarget if you want to get back to old target immediately
strange python
step for dispell in jade lol
@cobalt pelican the problem if u setting jade focus, if moink change position u lose focus XD
but just /target Jade worked
cobalt pelican
they don't really have like a good reason to change the position on shadhar do they
i used to use focus jade on mekkatorque
and shadhar is a way smaller room than mekkatorque was
strange python
How much is the max sim for assa rn?
Im at 72k rn and im wondering which items to aim for
rigid mango
Seen 81k~ post nerf as highest I think?
Just get mythic font coral, good azerite and expidient/gushing wound stack
strange python
I doubt i can get mythic font is it that important? Only got 430
rigid mango
Until you get enough expidients + vita it's BiS.
strange python
Ah so vita replaces font later on?
rigid mango
Essentially because of expidient.
rigid mango
But yeah, a lot of shit's fucken whack
strange python
Fuck my life aight ty guys
near pilot
whats the max corruption yall been rolling with in heroic?
strange python
I play 60 in mythic
near pilot
had 65 on last night, some fights got a little crazy
pallid notch
anyone able to answer a question about the rating req for cinflict and strife rank 2?
does the 1000 rating need to be in one? or can i have 800 in 2s and 200 in 3s?
cobalt pelican
in one queue
pallid notch
kk ty
earnest quiver
:)
near pilot
congrats, still sims better than raden trink set
earnest quiver
Pog
So if I understand the pinned, use on first global and consume it when i vendetta? Then reapply after vendetta ends and consume on next vendetta, rinse and repeat?
valid sphinx
Yep pretty easy as ass rogue
earnest quiver
Nice, thanks
valid sphinx
It’s super weird to use on fights like ilgynoth and drestagath and stuff tho
Be prepared to be like “oh FUCK I forgot razor coral” for like 15 boss pulls
earnest quiver
hahaha
strange python
just have a weakaura to remind you and use it as if you're doing m+ yeah?
earnest quiver
on fights with a lot of switching, worth taking off or no?
strange python
cooldown doesn't trigger if the target dies so you can re-apply it instantly
still worth in most cases
valid sphinx
Bro I have a weak aura in legit the middle of my screen and I still forgot it when I was getting used to it
earnest quiver
oh very nice
valid sphinx
Yeah if you’re tryharsing you’ll never take it off, still BiS in mythic plus even for the most part
strange python
yeah
earnest quiver
epic
strange python
anything above like 17-18 at least
valid sphinx
I don’t use it in m+ cause I can’t stand on use trinkets for the most part but razor coral is legit the best trinket in the game
strange python
below you might just run double jar or something
maybe spyglass
but yeah for optimal outlaw damage I think it's coral+torment in a jar
strange python
drest trinket does split damage doesn't it?
rigid mango
Mmmhm
silent silo
does raidbots account for the ra-den trinkets set? some people say set is better than coral and vita-charged
cerulean walrus
tribal marlin
does it even work ?
harsh sphinx
seems to
full sandal
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
maiden raptor
Do you guys run expidient and gushing for raid and m+ as a corruption setup?
fallow otter
Gushing good for both m+ and raid but my guess is that you don't want expedient for m+ but it's great for raid, one of the other guys can confirm but afaik you don't want haste for sin m+
I use outlul 4 m+
maiden raptor
I see. Well i thought about that too. But getting all the gear espacially azerite again is going to be a pain. But i feel like sin is kinda of a pain to play in m+ or i'm just not good at it
pale forum
why do i see so many rogues running 1 trait TTK atm?
edgy glade
whats good secondary stat %'s for sin?
drifting cloud
because its on carapace chest
pale forum
its also on mauts helm
drifting cloud
yes but mauts helm has np, chest has ss
pale forum
ah k makes sense
wasnt sure if it just wasnt being shown properly in the sims and stuff
drifting cloud
yeah its just heroic azerite that alot of people have
then you replace it with vexiona mythic
spark sky
I guess 2dd/1np simming worse than 3dd for me is kind of related to the 5 minute sim duration, right? The difference isn't great so getting more NPs makes a big difference for the value of the trait. Or maybe not?
steep obsidian
fine?
tacit plaza
Somebody could help me with my sim?
I am working on get better essences but why am I doing this shit dps?
arctic walrus
Better trinkets, azerite, essences, and corruption
vestal dagger
np would be so much better if it wasn't necessary to sync vendetta with vanish
vestal dagger
Your trinkets will do well in aoe
tacit plaza
But the haste one is good for ST true?
vestal dagger
i dont think its bad. i still have trinkets from EP that sim much higher single target, though
vestal dagger
is playing a shrouded suffocation with subterfuge now a single target competitor? i always sim higher st with MA
more importantly, your corruption gear is not great
and even more importantly, your neck isn't 75 in that sim
drowsy snow
What does np do that interferes with vanish? I don’t see the issue there.
tacit plaza
Ok, so I must focus on lvlup my neck, get better corruption, azerite and essences
drowsy snow
Some people sim higher with subt or deeper strat. Whatever is your best is best for you
vestal dagger
np is stronger if you can get more vendetta, which you can with visions, but that's still not strong enough (i think) to beat holding venfetta for vanish
drowsy snow
Under that logic then NP alone is better with vision major
You can buy corrupted gear off the ah, if you are really set on trying to get it.
vestal dagger
that's sorta what i thought would happen as soon as essences came around
but it turns out that vision hasn't been a good major for assassination, ever
drowsy snow
Some sims linked here have had vision major with 3x NP. Seems niche if that’s their best sim but maybe that’s just how it worked out for them.
vestal dagger
excellent point, and i think that build will become much better soon because of np on every azerite piece
edgy glade
blood of the enemy actually good major for sin or icy shit guides as usual?
drowsy snow
It’s good
hardy sandal
I'm guessing the Leech corruption is insta cleanse?
frozen karma
bis for Maut 
lean aurora
I just got Vita and Void Titanshard in our heroic run. I usually run with Vita + galecallers boon (475) Is the trinket set bonus strong enough the replace the galecallers boon with void?
subtle tundra
Sim
quick chasm
Is surging vitality sims based on you taking dmg for the whole fight or something?
fallow otter
You pick in the settings
raw lotus
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rEHMdpvhKBWdsNwhgvdtXY
Is there something i can do to improve my damage?
jaunty crystal
Have you tried other majors?
pale verge
What Majors are possible?
raw lotus
I have every essence at R3
steep obsidian
worldvein will most likely sim a lot better but it depends on the fight and if anyone else uses it
worldvein major
raw lotus
Yeah its like 2k better as a major
but most fights its not very effective cause movement
jaunty crystal
Worst is when you pop it on pull then the tank randomly moves the boss
steep obsidian
that when you pray the dk didn't pop his one or the hunter is in melee
but that is shitty tanking tho if its for no reason
steep obsidian
on a fight where you arent moving constanlty anyway
jaunty crystal
Happens more often than it should in heroic pugs.
jovial vault
@raw lotus you could swap traits on your helm to ass traits
jovial vault
lol
raw lotus
forgot to save the set
jaunty crystal
My biggest issue trying world win was forgetting to use it each minute lol. Used to using clf every 3 minutes
worldvein*
That autocorrect lol
jovial vault
So how much corruption is most people running in Mythic i was thinking of going higher then 39 but not sure
raw lotus
In outlaw i have 0
over resist
and Assassin i have 30 cause i have bracers and thats it
🙂 this patch is fun
fallow otter
I sit between 25 to 39 for prog mythic
hot flume
Excuse me if this has been answered before but I missed the info. Why is there such a big difference in corruptions between bloodmallet and herodamage ? And which one is the "good" one to use ?
jovial vault
thats what im thinking stay under 40
raw lotus
I wish i had those kinda options
cinder field
next week ull be able to add a +15 corru and keep the 39max corru
although you need to drop a good +15 corru item 🤡
jaunty crystal
What’s cheap
fallow otter
200k
jaunty crystal
Not bad
raw lotus
thats the haste proc?
fallow otter
Going balls deep on haste and forgetting about all these other dmg procs is very good imo
Haste 12%
fallow otter
Vita, power overwhelming, mecha ring, HoD, expedient, haste proc, not a bad option
But I would still pick gushing if I had it
Lol
jaunty crystal
I remember having like 13-15% haste in uldir
raw lotus
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/hyjal/ignore
Would you recraft the boots i have?
fallow otter
No, I wouldn't but that's me
raw lotus
It should?
drifting cloud
2 palas? 
fallow otter
I used a warlock imp and step macro
Super ez
Doesn't matter where it pops, you can step over it or just step straight there
Can use monk jade totem thing also
Rip flags
tender rock
is engineering helm worth as sin?
jovial vault
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/b77JcnwpHP64ePYVd4ZWXk i wish i had infinite stars
jaunty crystal
I have rank 2 which is completely fine but r3 is still such an increase
jovial vault
out of all my corruptions this is simming highest for me
jaunty crystal
My sim is the same as yours but I’m 9 ilvls behind you lol
drifting cloud
oh you dont have breath3
jovial vault
LOL great game
jovial vault
no i get rank 3 breath tomorrow
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6YuWoNCEXXAWKwrt5HhGeq thats with R3 breath
pale verge
onyx hedge
dropped over 5k dps
i had x2 rank 2 echoing voids
Surely that wont drop it that much
crimson palm
EV is dead
dense blaze
Two rank 3 severe with rank 3 deadly momentum, got a nice ring to it
onyx hedge
that was pre nerf, and im also using Worldvein instead of CLF there
but surely that isnt 7k dps
I have even got another 475 daggy
Anyone get any higher with that gear https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/q3fKhWJdLfTeBjNMk3JeoK
?
faint harness
Unfortunate azerite and corruptions
night vale
hmmmm, 465 Dice and 475 Golden Plumage simming higher than my Font (440) and Coral (430)
suprising
quasi pewter
@onyx hedge
65 corruption with this
just put breath essence on
instead of iris would be my guess
onyx hedge
ye
ty
Just got 460 ichorspine with rank 1 mind flay with socket
that will be better than the 445 tho
atomic willow
does IS scale with haste?
I feel like my IS was slapping last night more then before
hot flume
Read here that it was hasted
And my hasta gone up wild on my stat weights the moment I dropped and IS
frigid briar
IS is hasted yeh
shy axle
a few days ago people said "nah man don`t get IS, it is a waste on all bosses but 2"
now they are chasin
what happened
ashen solar
I dont think anyone actually wants IS
Considering it only works well on 2 bosses in the whole tier
atomic willow
wait it should do really good on Ra-Den, Xanesh, Shad'Har and il'gynoth right all ST bosses
summer marten
yea, i aim to get 6 times gushing wound! 0/6 so far
faint harness
got my 1st yesterday, but on 355 item
subtle tundra
Having hopes is good, lying to yourself isnt
faint harness
455*
strange python
someone here got time to check my logs,figure out where the issues are ?
lost sentinel
I have been out since 8.2, is sin rogue doing well in this raid? asking mostly for heroic, not mythic
potent raft
yes, sin is still very good
modest gazelle
Hey if anyone has some time, I've been struggling to figure out what I'm doing wrong in my rotation and looking for some advice. Feel free to DM. I'll be at work so may not respond super quickly. Thanks all https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tRfmckxvbFqGVANZ
desert leaf
minor thicket
Hey folks I play subterfuge for mythic plus. Ran into another rogue and told me crit should be one of lowest stacked stats. I disagree for subterfuge isn’t haste not needed high and it’s crit and mastery you need most of?
white wyvern
Yes, don't listen to random people.
lost sentinel
haste is good for single target, crit is better for multi
minor thicket
And yes I sim my character a lot. But wanted your thoughts because I’ve read on here crit mastery
Yea exactly
Thanks guys thought so
shy dust
Crit mastery are the go to stats for m+
crimson palm
@modest gazelle from first look, vendetta windows look suspicious, you should be bursting way more
At 97 secs you ruptured twice in a row
tb windows look ok
rigid mango
@modest gazelle overcapped some cp, missed A LOT of TB casts, which is probably the route to your problem
you also missed an entire vendetta becuase you delayed yours too much
rigid mango
That's a lot of fuckups.
crimson palm
and didn't overlap it with trinket
and rotation is a fuckup
3 tb casts are missed no?
1 between 0:30 and 1:30
1 2:30 and 3:00
and at the end between 5:00 and 6:00 big delays
coral usage also bad
you used it 10 seconds after vendetta didn't overlap with font
leaden garden
Is lucid major a thing? Only got a few essences
steep obsidian
it actually sims well for me but you feel overhwlemed with so much energy when using it
quasi scroll
What's rogue's job on Hivemind? We were having problems with adds so I added some Echoing Blades and spent the whole fight chasing adds
was good for meters but boss never died
quick harbor
Dont play assa on hivemind
rigid mango
Kinda does work 😄
quasi scroll
huh
shrewd night
Zine is completely impartial EB padder.
rigid mango
Mate I slapped the bosses
I'm not gonna say outlaw isn't better, because I think it is
but we struggled with darters and high SS vanishes helped
modest gazelle
@rigid mango @crimson palm the coral usage is something I def was aware of and realized that I basicslly missed it the entire vendetta. As for holding it, I forget which Vendetta it is, but it times up right with when we start spawning adds so I held it until those died and I could actually pump boss. I stuck with using the font alone a bit before adds so i get decent dmg on them. Would it really be worth popping Vendetta if I'm only gonna get ~10 secs maybe to use it before swapping? I guess it's better than missing out on an entire cast
rigid mango
And I just blasted the adds like a full padder anwyays
quasi scroll
oh go full Mythic+ spec... hmm
rigid mango
Essentially yeah.
rigid mango
@modest gazelle think of it like this, by saving it you LOST an entire vendetta. By using it earlier you would gain 10 sec total because you wouldn't miss the last cast.
quick harbor
Oh thought you wer talking about mythic
quasi scroll
oh, naw we are a low guild
rigid mango
HC doesn't matter tbh, shit's a pushover
modest gazelle
@rigid mango gotcha. Realistically, other than a few obvious minor things (double rupture casts, getting better TB on CD usage) I really gotta focus on my burst window and getting things to line up. Thanks for the advice, really appreciate it
marble hemlock
on hivemind you can just go full support
vendetta ravager, play 3ss+subterfuge and hold vanish for the darters during kazir phase, play master poisoner and swap to wound poison during p2 to reduce the healing done
can play cyclo blast and breath of the dying too to help with darter dmg
outer token
pin this!
idle ember
kind of surprised there's no 'but my parse' emoji
outer token
same, but it's too fresh post yet 😄
idle ember
Assuming I know nothing about M+ builds and the last time I ran sub/ss was Mythrax, what kind of corruptions are nominal for that type of support work on Hivemind. I would 100% be satisfied executing actual boss issues vs zerging shit down with Outlaw.
crimson palm
Whatever sims best on add cleave
marble hemlock
gushing, mindflay etc.
are all decent on hivemind for getting more dmg on the darters or main targets, really
woeful hornet
https://gyazo.com/71ae060cc731c8bc1b06037dba2bfca7 I don't Garrote or anything in my opener? just start mutilating right out of stealth?
woeful hornet
interesting, thanks!
strange python
The bote comes before vanish right?
scarlet sequoia
yes
strange python
Ty
scenic grotto
Anyone that knows what the spellid of the haste buff from Guardian of Azeroth is ?
cobalt pelican
scenic grotto
ty mate ❤️
valid sphinx
imagine not padding on hivemind
if you honestly think in heroic hivemind if i do anything other than run directly to the drones when they spawn u are c r a z y
also only hitting darters if they are conveniently flying over the boss(es)
woeful hornet
So what exactly is the AoE priority for Assassination? How many ruptures should I try maintain etc?
hollow stone
5 bleeds is the key for neutral energy
white wyvern
Depends on Haste.
gusty mirage
imagine not padding on hivemind
@valid sphinx switched to CT + mythic plus gear for hivemind, EZ purple parse
tidal gorge
Scent of blood + Hivemind = EZ. I just throw like 5 ruptures on the adds and then fan - env spam the priority target. It's wonderful. It's even more wonderful when I hit CLF with all that crap rolling 😄
ashen solar
sob in 2020 
gusty mirage
you'd def get move value out of echoing blades on hivemind than SOB imo
if you're gonna pad you gotta lulz pad with EB and CT
tidal gorge
I use both though. I'd probably use SS if I had better azerite
tidal gorge
It's super fun hitting 350k dps on trash packs with that combo though 😄
gusty mirage
I'm trying to convince the other rogue in my group to run AoE sin instead of switching to outlaw 
rough creek
do you delay TB to line up with WV? I keep finding my TB coming up with 10-15 secs until WV is off CD, feels bad
scarlet sequoia
no just press it, tb should be up again for the last few seconds of worldvein
rough creek
cool, cheers
wet ruin
so with rank 3 breath, has anyone tried it in visions as major?
I feel like it can be very strong as mobs don't have much hp even with masks
assuming solo runs
swift sparrow
isnt beam or protocol better ing eneral as major there ?
they can wreck the boars and big pulls
hollow stone
Bote is best imo but i could see any of those 3 being viable
gaunt echo
Protocol is super strong, it's strait up kills so often it's crazy
wet ruin
I am using protocol as major, but I just wonder if breath might be viable, since it hits for 150-160k non crits when its empowered
and mobs there have like 200-300k hp
gaunt echo
You can kill one thing every 5 seconds pretty easy, or pull half the room and delete 10 things with one cast
wet ruin
I find that I can't really do that with masks, the mobs hit pretty hard
gaunt echo
I never farmed out BotD, but that sounds pretty strong too with some eb action
bold yew
how do you guys feel about azerite traits for ST only, maybe tiny bit of cleave as well
i've got all these azerites i'm hella confused
what works best
been casual for so long and i found myself raiding with iris major, which looked abit sus
cobalt pelican
breath is definitely lit in visions if you can be bothered with it
it hits like 350k
and is very easy to maintain if you're soloing
if you 're party playing it gets a bit messy trying to snipe from other people
still sky
Purification has treated me real well so far, but I might try breath.
bright tusk
Just rolled 480 gorak tul's mantle, would you pick blightborne or nothing personal for mythic+?
It's replacing a 435 pistoleer's spaulders with SS and EB
cobalt pelican
blightborne basically always
wet ruin
@cobalt pelican yea, I realized that as I typed it so I added the solo thing
bright tusk
hmm ok ty
cobalt pelican
there's some merit to playing 1np if you're playing vop minor but i wouldn't recommend that unless you actually know the timings for dungeons and even then i'd rather get it on another piece and not over bbi
bright tusk
alright ty
untold current
unkempt solstice
This might be a stupid question, but is there a BiS list for AoE and one for SIngle Target?
subtle tundra
there is no bis lists
unkempt solstice
I'm aware of simming myself, was just hoping I new for sure what to shoot for, guess i can use the droptimizer.
subtle tundra
you know the general good traits and chase items with those
and stats heavily change depending on traits/corruptions/essences
crimson sleet
is it worth to use 2 times cara hc Dagger ? or should i look for an other good dager and a other corupption ?
rancid bobcat
it's okay but there are better corrupted effects if you can get them
but it's difficult to get them
unborn river
I have a bsic problem with my assa roque. My sim dps was 55k/gs 456. My Raidbots said i should go on crit, mastery and haste at last. But my logs are just in the green or grey area. WoW Analyzer says, that my rotation is ok. Can somebody look over the logs?? I have no idea what to do.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6RmqGT9KZJMBp8Vx
sand whale
wowanaylzer is lying to you
I mean I am just basing this off your skitra opening
let's just say apart from the 1st 2 muts
everything else is horribly wrong
dense blaze
What is that picture supposed to show about his opening
civic palm
Yeah there's a cast timeline for this > _>
sand whale
oh right mbad forgot ty ty haha
neat remnant
His opener is fine, it's super hard for me to look at it on mobile and it's in German so I'm struggling but the opener is okay
bleak spoke
https://i.imgur.com/DMrSLAb.png from your maut opener
this is not correct
you go long cds -> short cds
so clf -> vendetta/racial -> tb -> vanish envenom muti etc
https://i.imgur.com/4p56Dea.png from out of the second vendetta
you can vendetta early on but you should always seek to tb -> vanish
you don't want to disjoint your dps windows
the individual buffs (tb, vanish, vendetta) are not necessarily very powerful on their own, but have a multiplicative effect when paired properly
you also use your potion after you've done your burst which is the same idea
be careful about losing uptime on the boss - i understand on maut it's very easy to get a circle and need to be in narnia but keep in mind you are a rogue and even if you can't touch the boss for a bit you can get back very fast so account only for travelling away
good dps is built on good uptime
your garrote uptime is at 90% on a boss where you should have close to 100%, rupture's at 96% which is a little better but it's also one of the easiest dots to not drop
your energy regen is based entirely on having your dots tick on a poisoned target so you're actually gimping your energy production when you drop dots - it's one of the most serious problems in the log
sand whale
here we go I have no idea how I fucked up so bad, brain just farted and and thought there was a simc style output -.- https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6RmqGT9KZJMBp8Vx#fight=5&type=casts&source=17&translate=true&by=target&view=timeline
bleak spoke
finally, in a 3:36 fight, you can cast 2 vendettas and 2 clfs - while it's hard to know how long a fight will last when you pull
if you have some idea, you want to delay your second vendetta for your second clf
sand whale
^graphs the downtime that was said but opener still scuffed
bleak spoke
so as to get the most benefit from the cds
sand whale
like non existent opener
bleak spoke
you can have a scuffed opener and follow dps principles and still do fine - it's just the easiest bit to criticize
assassination is about lining up pieces of your burst so you hit extra hard when you're hitting extra hard basically
so refreshing garrotes and ruptures in toxic blade windows, using short cds before you use long cds, potting after vendetta is over, etc, that will all ruin your damage
and the opener just reflects the misunderstanding
sand whale
from looking at this I have a feeling they were assigning him on a specific add rather than marking them
every time
same amount of down time
bleak spoke
oh i'm looking at maut
sand whale
oh
bleak spoke
i think maut's a better one to look at for rotation tbh
cuz skitra gets really weird
the logs break
if you're not in the same realm as the person logging
sand whale
mythic yeah
bleak spoke
oh
sand whale
heroic nope
bleak spoke
i wasn't aware of that actually
at any rate i think maut's still probably less weird to look at :x
cuz you won't have a dying add and need to hold cds etc
sand whale
yeah p much what you said then at a glance https://i.imgur.com/Vy1oG6s.png
first gap ven hasn't finished
2nd gap if I were to look closer I would guess he got punted away
with no sprint and step
then his corruption slowed him hehe
bleak spoke
lowkey i've been tossed around on that boss like a ragdoll i just step back
low attention span 
sand whale
I think my brain is dying, just witnessed 3 of my rogue friends try 4 mask and get obliterated after a long day of m+ farming
told em "I swear something changed it's hard", they proceed to not believe me
and they all wasted a key
keen current
when I have 3 Double Dose, should I weigh more on Mutilate and only use finishing move at 5 CP or it's better to not cap CP as normal?
cobalt pelican
finisher rules don't change at all regardless of trait count
maiden raptor
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vaeH7iWLiA4GyPhzJ4sCUi
Any tips on here?
I assume upgrades would be better corruptions + raden trinket + carpace daggers?
jaunty crystal
rank 3 essences
maiden raptor
does rank 3 make a huge difference?
maiden raptor
Yea just started playing again last week so i'm lacking on essences
Anything else to keep an eye out for?
jaunty crystal
your gear isn't too bad. If we're talking single target I'd try to replace that dice for sure.
you can probably get a better helm. I'd recommend the engi helm if you have engi.
carapace daggers are obviously insane if you can fit that corruption in.
but honestly the biggest upgrades by far will be your essences lol
tropic surge
currently have 49% mastery, 32% crit, 10% haste,9% vers. Is it maybe good to take master poisoner with so much mastery
for m+
grave eagle
hey, i dont have life force, whats the the other option for ST? been using breath of the dying
maiden raptor
@jaunty crystal thanks alot. Would you say it's even worth to drop a job like Herbalism for the engi Helm. And i assume the best replacement for the dice would be ra-den trinket?
stoic token
I am dying to ask questions: Firs time on here.
First: Assume I have EVERYTHING. What is best M+ azerite trait combos and essence combo. I am not sure if I can rely on Raidbots dungeon slice as it contradicts what I read on icy veins. in particular in regards to essence combos and how azerite stuff
vast forum
blood of the enemy major
lucid minor is mandatory
rest are situational
best traits depend on the way your grp pulls and the dungeon
if you drop combat between pulls, rather than chain, you DEFINITELY want 3xSS
even if you don't it's 1 of the best options
stoic token
ok.. and just pop blood on cooldown with new pulls
vast forum
EB is very good for aoe, ttk is decent for prio target and single target so it's a good all-around trait
stoic token
When u Say EB is good.. would u aim for wearing 3 at the cost of losing all ur ss
vast forum
never
stoic token
I have no pieces that have both on it
stoic token
So like 2 EB and 1ss
stoic token
are there pieces with both ss and EB
stoic token
ah
vast forum
there are from the vendor
stoic token
ttk?
vast forum
twist the knife
tropic surge
@vast forum twist the knife or heart of darkness?
vast forum
@tropic surge not sure about that one
personally i think heart of darkness
which i was about to mention to frizzle 😛
tropic surge
kk thx
vast forum
i think 3xSS 2x heart and 1x EB might be the best combo
or just straight up 3x SS 3x EB depending on dungeon and pulls you do 😄
stoic token
ok.. so during tyranical weeks will u run blood, lucid, and vision to get more vendetta
oh fuck great info there
vast forum
depends again on how high 😄
high tyrannical where bosses last for >2.5 min, you don't get extra vendettas from vision
basically you should have a good feeling for how fast a boss will die in the level range where you do m+, so you know whether or not visions is good
i would DEFINITELY recommend visions for KR tho
stoic token
right now the raid bots has me with ss x 3 , SOB, BR, and INcite the pack.. with essence Iris, lucid, Breath of dying, and conflict as my best sim
vast forum
well, when you have 0 EB, blood loses a lot of aoe value
stoic token
ok
vast forum
as EB gains INSANE value from crits and the crit dmg modifier
stoic token
right
fair delta
what would you say our best corruption? IS?
stoic token
I can do a combo: SS x 2 - HOD x 2 , and EB x1 and Either incite the pack or blood scent
fading wigeon
I have BOTE rank 2. Should I still use that @vast forum in m+ or wait for rank 3?
vast forum
not sure @fading wigeon , i'd say still use it but definitely focus on getting rank 3 asap
fading wigeon
I am 4k away so will try to get it asap. Thank you. My other options are protocol rank 3 and beam rank 3
vast forum
@stoic token that's a pretty good trait setup, i'd choose incite the pack as the last one personally
stoic token
ty
fading wigeon
Thanks @vast forum
vast forum
beam is good but i'm not sure if it's better than r2 blood
vast forum
i personally play outlaw in m+ whenever my reforge costs go under 10k 😄
vast forum
if i had choice of all azerite, i'd probably go for 3x SS 2x HoD 1x EB personally
stoic token
great ty
vast forum
blood, lucid, breath of the dying and vision or conflict and strife, depending on dungeon/key level
vast forum
well, my group probably kills tyrannical +10 bosses in under 1.30 so vision is kinda pointless 😄
stoic token
i pug
vast forum
i think vision might be good for you then 😛
stoic token
last night.. fucking group.. couldnt kill last boss, i was pullin 50k dps and they were under 20
vast forum
depends really, i'd say more generally, play with C&S tho
the benefit from VoP is very situational and in situations where it's good it's still barely better than conflict
so if you're ever not sure what to run, just run c&s
vast forum
for raids i'd recommend just simming all your options
for most players, HoD sims higher than NP after the first one
vast forum
well you also have to have 25+ corruption for it, which i don't so i have to run 2xNP 3x DD 1x TtK
imagine getting a 475 kul tiran cannonball runner in your weekly cache 🙃
stoic token
in raid will u just tome talents or just run hybrid build and keep subterfuge and prey on weak and just swap gear and essences as needed?
vast forum
in raid you mostly wanna run master assassin
though i heard rumors of SS+subterfuge simming higher for some people
stoic token
ok
vast forum
rest of the talents should be the same for all rows
stoic token
mine did not but I did not wan to retalent for trash
so the sim was marginal and i figured it savesme tomes
to just swap gear set
zenith wren
Gear no longer titanforges should be pretty ezpz to gather an offset
stoic token
Question: do you trust raidbots for M+ sims using dungeon slice?
vast forum
well, azerite never titanforged
and offsets are usually just trinkets and azerite
no, dungeonslice isn't very good for assa
it can point you in the right direction sometimes but it's generally not advised to follow as gospel
stoic token
What is your Horrific Vision set up? same as M+?
zenith wren
Just outlaw it
vast forum
assa > outlaw for visions for sure
personally i would run 3x SS 3x NP for visions
also, you can just swap gear in m+ unlike raidbosses/m+
stoic token
and just gear set switch on ST
vast forum
no, 3x SS 3xNP is by far your best option for short single target fights
zenith wren
Are you talking solo or group visions
stoic token
solo
vast forum
you would maybe switch to 3xSS 3x EB on the trash if you had all the options
stoic token
or 2 man
vast forum
solo visions as assa are god-tier
i am probably soloing a 5mask run in 2 days (when i get a vessel)
vast forum
blood/vop/lucid/breath
vast forum
i prefer vop cuz it perfectly aligns vendetta and bote
also
i haven't seen many ppl do this
but i run exsanguinate for visions
bosses die in LITERALLY 10 sec
maybe less even
vast forum
EP/subterfuge/vigor (or sometimes marked for death, i've been playing with both), leeching poison, iron wire, exanguinate and poison bomb is my build
also i forgot to mention, iron wire is really good for m+
8 sec silences are insane
or is it 6 i'm not sure 😄
stoic token
yeah i have that.. do u leech in m+ too
vast forum
nah
you have a healer in m+ 😄
not in visions tho
obviously i'm running them solo
if you run with a healer go cheat death
stoic token
ok
I fucked up and didnt talent solo
but been running solo
talented grop
so i run with mage friend
as well.. same set up u think is fine with a non healer buddy?
vast forum
Yea, same as solo
vast forum
Pleasure to help people who actually look for help
stoic token
or bg?
vast forum
I used to play high rated rbg but never tryharded arena
vast forum
I quit recently as the rbg community is quite dead and the remains are toxic
Depends on map/your role in the game
There's an extensive rbg guide by raz, 1 of the few rogues with more rbg exp than me, pinned in the #pvp channel
stoic token
ty
sand whale
@vast forum have you done a vision within the past few hours?
stoic token
if u wanted to gank people in wpvp would u just run the ssx3 and NP x3 and exsanguinate.
vast forum
I went through it myself and can confirm that despite a lot of repeating info, it's all correct
No @sand whale
stoic token
for fast solo gank
sand whale
alright when you do let me know if you notice anything odd like higher scaling
vast forum
Hmm i personally don't check mob hp a lot
sand whale
was the same for me before just blasting through 4 mask
crisp hollow
i noticed morningwind using agi proc trinkets a lot for sin M+, any reason they'd be preferable to more conventional options?
sand whale
then tried one few hours ago, mobs trucking me left right centre
vast forum
@stoic token i'd either go 3xSS 3xNP with exsg or 3x ss 3x ttk with toxic blade
stoic token
i like that
Do u think 465 over 450 when the only thing ur choosing from is wether u get HOD on lower piece or SOB on the higher one in M+ is worth the lower pices just to get HOD?
vast forum
difficult to answer tbh
probably sim 4-6 targets 40-60 seconds and if the higher ilvl piece doesn't pull far ahead, stick with hod
sim it without hero and buffs tho
i'm sure hod has higher value than sob but the bonus agi from higher ilvl + the stronger SS is a difficult thing to do napkin math with 😛
stoic token
cool.. under patckwerk 6 bosses one min?
vast forum
just do a few different sims, patchwerk with 4 bosses 40 seconds, 6 bosses 40 seconds, 4 bosses 60 seconds and 6 bosses 60 seconds to get a really good idea of how it performs in general dungeon aoe pulls
fortunately sims are free and doing many is neither illegal nor difficult 😄
stoic token
thanks agin.. Happy Valentines.. Go get laid .. you deserve it