Team players use CDs on N’zoth 😎
#assassination
dense blaze
rigid mango
The 85k dude obv did
drifting cloud
got r1 boss dmg 
rigid mango
drifting cloud
but as rogue its so easy to parse if youre in 2nd group
atleast when I boost
man that guys TA did 22%
drifting cloud
and he only has r3
rigid mango
Truly outskilled
drifting cloud
yeah just proc it when psychus is on 5 stacks
wanton viper
@rigid mango what talents for assa vision? I have 3x ss
rigid mango
rigid mango
use Hb then u wheelchair
internal bleeding can be dope but I think iron wire is bonkers
distant lava
if you play solo I think you run with PB
dim pebble
Nice corruption
stiff vortex
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3on3sWMn4PhDJZNDESjrCg
why should i choose subterfuge without ss trait?
and why 2 times nothing personal?
just want to understand, i know .. sim is right xD
strange python
do we use font of power 18 secs before pull
arctic socket
strange python
cuz of double on use like mages
vast forum
i use exsg for solo visions (up to 3masks so far), it provides a much better burst and bosses die within seconds
rigid mango
You don't care about applying coral early @strange python
You care more about getting your entire vend in font
vast forum
font/coral usage is pinned somewhere 😄
versed bobcat
hey boys, why so many ppl playin botE on Xanesh?
rigid mango
Sup
crimson palm
Bote opener was before vanish right?
viscid lichen
is the double raden trinket worth it in the raid?
Im using 430 coral and 465 spyglass right now
crimson palm
tb before bote?
rigid mango
Ye.
pliant apex
okay what are you using for 75
also why the heck would this discord exist if you just sim yourself
everytime
white wyvern
So we can tell you to 
pliant apex
thats just trolling man
white wyvern
How else would you know.
pliant apex
the official guide states certain essences as good enough for single target, just doesnt list one for 75
drifting cloud
this is the part where I tell you cns3 is good as minor
then you say you dont have it
and then were back to
pliant apex
whats cns
pliant apex
oh i aint got it at rank 3
drifting cloud
damn Im a prophet
pliant apex
can i just use rank 2
drifting cloud
no its bad at r2
royal lantern
for some people CLF is bad as a major now, for me its still the highest simming major
drifting cloud
at 1k mmr it will take you 4months to get r3
pliant apex
rank 3 requires 1k rating season 3 right
cosmic obsidian
damn Im a prophet
@drifting cloud hahahahah dying rn
pliant apex
yea ill just use crucible rank 3
glacial crypt
I've forgotten how to use coral in raid, been popping it with cd's but it doesn't feel strong
pliant apex
ok zine/eniz
rigid mango
You should be using it with cd's, yeah.
hollow stone
@drifting cloud not a prophet, just has prophetic statements sometimes ❤️
I also lol’d pretty hard reading that
tiny sierra
hi all, quick question. Im at 58 total corruption and ive heard the thing from beyond is super tough to deal with as melee. My two corrupted pieces are a dagger with a 1% echoing void (465 ilvl) and boots with a 8.3k tentacle flay (445 ilvl). Which one should I cleanse? or should i keep both?
This is for H Nyalotha btw
vast forum
58 is manageable especially in hc, but if you prefer to cleanse one, just sim it 
tiny sierra
wont it be tough during fights that require a bunch of movement or dont have a lot of space?
royal lantern
all corruptions scale up sooooo
alpine latch
Is there much RNG to the ASN playstyle? I haven't played since Legion and Outlaw just seems way too damn RNG heavy.
I'm thinking about grabbing some daggers and switching over
royal lantern
outlaw is not that rng heavy as you think, trust me
hollow stone
Sin and OL both have 6.7% dps variance (aka same rng)
white wyvern
No, there isn't, but Outlaw is not that heavy rng either. Take all RNG over a long enough period and it's smooth.
royal lantern
the perfect trio
white wyvern
trifecta
royal lantern
but ye, assassination RNG is actually getting good mutilate/envenom crits during burst windows
alpine latch
Oh, I'm sure over the grand scheme of things it isn't. It just feels that way to me with RtB so I'm thinking about coming over to ASN. Just figured I'd ask and get some feedback 🙂
royal lantern
and outlaw can get fucked by bad SS proc luck
you need too stop seeing rerolling as a waste
fair delta
is there something htat has BIS?
alpine latch
Yeah, already know what I'm doing wrong with Outlaw. Just thinking about swapping and thought I'd ask.
hollow stone
The thing about sin rng is its not as obvious. You dont count how many cps you “could have gotten” had mut crit. Or how many DD procs you “could have gotten” if it proc’d, etc. Whereas outlaw, its very obvious when youre rolling for buffs
alpine latch
that's a good point that I hadn't really considered
white wyvern
I don't wanna ping him, but there is a dude named RtB rng Barely Affects You.
strange python
is double carapce dagger bis for us?
white wyvern
yis
strange python
good that i bonusrolled in outlaw spec then
hollow stone
Yes but not always with keeping the corruption effect on it
white wyvern
Given you can get BiS corruption elsewhere.
hollow stone
It’s bis because of ilvl
strange python
aight tyvm
unreal shoal
So, still learning a lot when it comes to gearing Assassin. Are stat caps still a thing or does simming just answer all questions?
royal lantern
hc carapace until you get wrathion mythic, and that until you are lucy enough too get carapace mythic
its simming
white wyvern
@unreal shoal Sim.
unreal shoal
Cheers.
royal lantern
im doing more dps as sin on hivemind then the 2outlaws in my group
without padding
ama
white wyvern
Why do your Outlaw suck?
hollow stone
Why do you play sin?
royal lantern
ask them, not me
hollow stone
🙃
royal lantern
cus im a cool kid
granite dust
why do you have 3 rogues 
white wyvern
You said AMA.
royal lantern
(and because nobody kills the priority targets fast enough is the serious answer)
im #1 on ravager/darter dmg
swift sparrow
anyone knows if haste affects infinite stars ?
dense blaze
Assassination is fun and engaging
hollow stone
You should ask those types of questions in general @swift sparrow. But yes, it does
echo cargo
Anyone have an idea of how much uptime you get on surging vitality in your average boss fight?
tropic ocean
depends on the encounter
its very good in every encounter that has constant raid dmg intake
tidal dust
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/tarren-mill/nolltresex# Can anyone help me with what im doing wrong? Feel like im performing worse for each raid
topaz vine
idk why.. but this annoys the crap out of me xD
white wyvern
I've notice that too. Is there a way to switch it to always be minutes anyhow?
fair delta
something changed on raidbots. yesterday, i was simming at 62k and now im simming at 68k
hot copper
@fair delta Are you running Void Ritual corruptions?
fair delta
yeah
worldly tree
boys, what prepot are you guys using? 20% crit or agi?
fair delta
@hot copper
hot copper
@fair delta The bonus on it got doubled, that's why
@worldly tree correct answer here is
But Unbridled
fair delta
it was supposed to be updated yesterday though
upbeat tinsel
had to be on nightly yesterday
fair delta
mmm
upbeat tinsel
it was keeping pre-nerf sims until EU reset
worldly tree
@hot copper where do i check on raidbots which pot to use?
hot copper
worldly tree
yeah, but like i switchet to let simc decide there is no place which i check it after simming?
chilly bronze
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
whole mantle
echoind void lvl 3 increases 300k dps more than my ritual void lvl 2 and doubles corruption
nice blizzaerd
whole mantle
I'll change it for the ritual and lose 300k worth it
rigid mango
What?
whole mantle
no more thing from beyond
tropic surge
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
hallow coyote
Losing 300K dps sounds pretty extreme
whole mantle
the 2 are in the same item slot
http://prntscr.com/r1hkzj these is not bat right ?
bad*
gloomy slate
You must be a pro if you are doing 300k
fallow peak
Question about vision of perfection. Im looking at kill times on several bosses... a lot of our heroic kills are 5-5:30 in length (I realize that’s slow). Since I would get an extra vendetta squeezed in on those fights would it be worth running it as a minor? Does the sim account for getting another vendetta for a given fight length?
drifting cloud
you still get the same amount of vanishes
so youre just trading 1 vendetta for the dps the other minor would give you
also way worse if you use font for example
fallow peak
My sims show that subterfuge vs ma is only a 100 ish dps gain.
serene osprey
Do you have SS traits on your ST gear?
rigid mango
Subt > MA in higher end.
fallow peak
To the ss traits
rigid mango
But the diff is normally negligible
wet ruin
rigid mango
Yup.
fallow peak
Right, so if I’m not running ss traits and not running ma, would the extra vendetta be worth it
serene osprey
Full ST and the let the warrior pad his lil heart out
rigid mango
No? Subt is still around your vanish.
fallow peak
We haven’t killed that yet but I ran echoing blades and ss and was doing a steady 67k
drifting cloud
like vop has 100 passive vers right
but cns has 480~
so youre trading almost 380 vers for a scuffed vendetta
fair delta
can someone verify that these talents should be ran? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kxQhj8CZ7DZascfAW8X9Tt
drifting cloud
same thing applies
just gave you a direct vers comparison
the vendetta is not free, youre paying stats for it
fallow peak
Cns is conflict and strife?
rigid mango
y
serene osprey
Its what you switch to once you have enough haste to not need iris or bote
tacit wing
which essences shall i focus on getting first? just coming back since 8.1
whole mantle
iris is easy and you gonna use on minor or major for dungeon
strange python
you kinda want to farm most of them
lucid and breath of the undying are staple minors atm, vision minor for m+, bote major for m+/raid, worldvein major for raid
whole mantle
lucid dreams is good on minor but is farming :/
and if you like can use on major too until you get CLF or worldvein
tropic ocean
it was reduced to 4800 iirc
stable isle
the good shit
dark crag
Are we in the 3rd mythic week?
raven locust
Yes
dark crag
Thanks
zinc coyote
Can anyone tell me what that combo point tracker/energy bar and the debuff bar to the left of the rogue is? I run with bt4 and move anything so really hoping I don’t need elvui for it
jolly trout
looks like weakauras
livid spindle
zinc coyote
Thanks so much, that thing is a beaut
agile oar
Hey guys do you know where i can get the quest for 460 piece for darkshore, unless i'm mistaken
pure moth
In the port of zandalar.. the quest giver is right where you queue for it
frozen plover
hey peeps, I'm pretty stuck with deciding which trinket to run in raids and dungeon. I have 460 [Humming Black Dragonscale] 450 [Harlan's Loaded dice] and a 430 [Azshara's font of power].. Which one do I run with! please help! 😄
cinder lava
what major do y'all use for raid?
strange python
I alternate between worldvein and bote depending on fight/raid comp
honest vessel
@frozen plover sim them!
true pelican
what other specs have wv as bis major? there aren't enough people running it in my raid for it to be worth it
frozen plover
@honest vessel They are 200 dps apart 😄
I thought there might be a usage to both of them in different situations
honest vessel
theres ur answer then :p
if timers dont allow for font on cd then swap off
thats bout it
like wrathion
@true pelican any minors? even with 0 others it still sims better for me as major lol
true pelican
there's 1 other rogue running it as major
and a bm hunter running it too but they're usually too far away
hmm I just ran the sims again and seems like with 1 ally it's still better than clf
pretty close though so idk how much movement would affect uptime
unkempt solstice
can we out damage hunters and dh's, or is it a losing battle? assuming equivalent gear and skill?
50 corruption? that's gonna be nasty
short token
single target yes, easily, aoe not unless you go outlaw
i mean assuming everything equal maybe hunters win idk
but you can beat a dh single target
warrior? o.O
unkempt solstice
I'm having trouble keeping up on alot of bosses in the new raid.
unkempt solstice
short token
well you have very little corruption, and now that echoing void got nerfed it's even worse
are those essences your best?
crucible of flame?
true pelican
50 corruption isn't too bad if you know the fight
true pelican
you just need to know when you absolutely cannot take extra damage and use the cloak on use or rogue cloak
@short token I was replying to his comment ealrier
short token
oh ok
was confused
anyone with breath of the dying experience have any advice, do we just use on CD? when are people using it in the opener?
fleet whale
Just got a few pieces with heart of darkness on it. After some sims, i didn't realize how powerful it was lol
naive cypress
Does assa have a prefered azerite combination in m+ now, or is it just any combo of 3 EB + whatever
rigid mango
3 SS + as many Eb as possible
naive cypress
So SS is > EB
rigid mango
Generally yeah, but they're both really good
naive cypress
I see
rigid mango
SS is just very versatile in its usage and is only limited by chainpulling, EB has a lot of short comings that SS helps patch up.
rigid mango
Yeah.
naive cypress
Thanks
fossil pagoda
hello anyone know what's best status for crit % haste % mastery % is good?
fleet whale
I don't think it's feasible to hit the "best" status for any secondary. What secondary is best varies from player to player
fleet whale
you have to sim your own stat weights man to get that answer, or preferably top gear. but your verse does seem really low, so i think that will be your top secondary
rigid mango
For m+?
umbral mauve
when do you use vanish with subterfuge + bote in st fights?
rigid mango
With vend
fossil pagoda
yep m+
fleet whale
I assume you swap out iris minor for C&S for M+ right
rigid mango
You'd rather have strife/vop than iris
fossil pagoda
iris is major
fossil pagoda
i just change for gor about it
rigid mango
And you also want more echoing blades
rigid mango
You can easily just sim yourself there
fossil pagoda
yeah everyone saying it
fleet whale
ST it depends from player to player
rigid mango
All the stats are very near eachother just better a diff points
fossil pagoda
but realy don't know that sim thing
strange python
actually hype that breath major is so good for me. shit is fun
short token
guffin what's the plan using it? just on Cd? when are you using it in your opener?
strange python
just using it where we always used clf in the opener, and then on CD.
I hold it a bit if: adds are about to come up in less than 30s (benefit from the lower CD on a >80% target)
or the boss will be under 20% within 30 secs (same shit)
and then you can also snipe executes on adds obviously
strange python
like nzoth you execute tentacles with breath, and then pump a big double damage one into a sub 20% psychus and then get 2 uses on nzoth
etc.
idk, it's really fun imo. lot more engaging than clf
and if it's almost equal in pure ST, then it's ahead in any fight with adds basically
at least for me
woeful hornet
Looking at Ass rotation, https://i.gyazo.com/f6f0d2d44ed8833ee9a1adc5dcfdb24c.png - do I just not use Toxic Blade or?
true pelican
with exsang
unkempt solstice
is echoing void simming correctly in raidbots, or is it using unnerfed damage?
timber meadow
for gushing wound/expedient/surging vitality etc. does it make any difference whether you stack a singular one like stacking a buncha expedient with maybe a racign pulse or something vs. combining the same amount of corruption but splitting it between different traits
idk if stacking has a benefit beyond just the dps per corruption point
sturdy python
Subterfuge and 0 SS traits in ST, just single garrote out of stealth?
strange python
Sim MA and see if it’s better with no SS traits?
cobalt pelican
ya single garrote
half tartan
ornate gazelle
Does cloak free you from the 99% slow on dog?
cobalt pelican
corruption is always a raid specific thing, i played 55 on it and it was fine for me
amber tiger
hey guys im using dungeon slice to sim for mythic+ is the info accurate?
i got a few haste rings but it has echoing void and twilight devastation on it and its simming higher than my crit rings
the ilvl for the rings are about the same
woeful hornet
In M+ with 3-4+ targets with Subterfuge, should I look to garrote them or garrote AND rupture 1 by 1?
cobalt pelican
getting 3 garrotes in subterfuge takes priority with any shrouded suffocation traits
woeful hornet
thank you!
cobalt pelican
and dslice for assasination is kinda unrecommended but it doesn't seem unlikely that if you dont have other corruption that ev/td takes precedence over better stats
cobalt pelican
yes almost certainly
amber tiger
thanks one more q. if dungeon slice is not good for assa how should i sim for mythic+ tried patchwerk on multi bosses and shorter length fight but it gives some very strange results
cobalt pelican
what kind of results
cobalt pelican
generally multitarget patchwerk is kinda ok as long as you disable lust
but it's still not something you can rely on 100%
cobalt pelican
sounds not that abnormal, what's the issue
sim numbers are always kinda higher than you expect in reality due to inperfect play but as the target count grows so does the room for player error
amber tiger
ahh okay
maiden raptor
Is it worth to crimson tempest on bossfights in m+? For an extra bleed or is that just wasted combo points
sturdy python
wasted CP
maiden raptor
aight ty
hollow haven
How much are you guys simming atm ?
arctic walrus
70-80 depending on corruption
maiden raptor
How exactly are cleave fights played? F/e hivemind do you start by garroting both targets with SS and then Rutpure them before going into the Ven/Tb phase? And how many of the adds are you supposed to dot? Afaik sin should be really good in such cleave fights yet i struggle a lot to perform well so any tips :)?
hollow haven
Used to sim 78k before the nerf
Now 70k only 😦
Boomy in the guild sim for 86k
Dafuk is this
drifting cloud
yeah with IS probably
arctic walrus
boomkin sims are always super inflated as well
hollow haven
So what are the bis corruption for us atm?
raw lotus
How much crit should i be aiming for for pure single target
dense blaze
The sim is telling me to drop my NP for a second heart of darkness, feels bad, don't wanna do it, should I keep doing it?
strange python
try and get some opinions on #feelcraft
dense blaze
No
fallow otter
@dense blaze the bis that hero damage has doesn't have np atm, for what it's worth
sly ferry
got 2xSS, 2xTTK and 2xEB all 465 or should i drop one of my azerite pieces to 450 for extra EB or SS
for m+
vague rock
what's the correct time to use BotE in, for example, a 4+ target pull?
olive topaz
2nd pin from the top.
timber meadow
hmm literally never seen an assasin sim where deeper came out slightly ahead - is this a new thing just with a lot of the good haste corruption?
arctic walrus
yes
pale verge
With the new raid gear, what will the BiS set-up be in M+ for the traits? 3x SS and 2x HoD and 1x TTK?
inland gull
ttk is bad for m+ overall :D
ionic arrow
is there a site where I can see the meaning of rogue short cuts like Bote?
faint harness
Bad or just marginally worse
Bote is not a rogue thing
and its Blood of the enemy
ionic arrow
ah okay haha
inland gull
bote is assa wet dream in m+ push :p
scarlet urchin
the reason he's asking is probably because he didn't know what BotE was 😛
faint harness
yea but its not a rogue spell
There should probably be a pin with commonly used abbreviations
fallow otter
Like pepega
ionic arrow
@faint harness gonna check it!
faint harness
THere is none currently
fallow otter
Tbh, the general chat here isn't a bad place to ask
faint harness
@rigid mango fix ur name and make a pin for commonly used abbreviations, they might be obvious to most but for new players/new to the discord its very confusing when 50% of it is in shortened mode.
jovial canopy
hey there everyone just curious is there generally a good trinket to use in m+ ?
jovial canopy
torment in a jar from xanesh?
faint harness
yea
jovial canopy
interesting. thanks for advice
fallow otter
Flat agi?
fallow otter
Is it legendary
fallow otter
Scales with neck levels?!
faint harness
you know it
fallow otter
Dood, sign me up
faint harness
/signed
scarlet urchin
what trinket is that?
radiant seal
the R1 abreviation is for? i cant seem to pinpoint it in my head xD
nvm
rupture ofc
lol
tribal marlin
I still enjoy font of power :3
radiant seal
madman
tribal marlin
My actual concerns are corrupted item NOT dropping
like we did 200 m+ runs since 8.3 came out
we got like 10 corrupted itme over 700+ item dropped
tribal marlin
I'm 100% sure it has reduced drop rate in m+
I looted like 5 corrupted item from horrific vision
meager bridge
lyric glade
Hey guys, i am new to Assa (played only Outlaw til yesterday) i kinda like it but i am unsure about Azerites. Herodamage and Bloodmallet say Double Dose is the way to go. at least 1 Nothing Personal. And i got 1 Shrouded Suffocation. I see m+ ppl running 3x SS and echoing blades. sometmes no Double Dose at all
subtle tundra
Single target and dungeon traits are completely different
lyric glade
Ah thats why. So Single Target e.g. Raid u wanna have the Double Dose and maybe Twisted Knives i think ? and M+ the SS / EB combo with at least 1 Nothing Personal in both situations?
scarlet urchin
anyone wanting to help me sim top gear?
idle cedar
Anyone who's smart here? 😬 I have some dps issues
vague rock
wait in the aoe openers what's the point of the Fok->Envenom before BotE
why not just BotE right after first ruptre, or after applying 3 ruptuers
scarlet sequoia
@idle cedar what kind of dps issues
idle cedar
I have burst dmg around 55-60k, but then it scales down to between 17-21k and no matter what I do I cant up it more
this is both in raids and in m+'s
crimson palm
have you tried pressing more buttons?
idle cedar
I've tried everything hahaz
scarlet sequoia
do you have a sim you can link
shrewd night
!abb
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue abbreviations: http://www.ravenholdt.net/rogue-abbreviations/
brisk forge
You gotta be doing something very wrong with 17k dps
idle cedar
Yes, thats my point @brisk forge 😅
scarlet sequoia
aight so first of all
idle cedar
I've even downloaded addons for rotations
scarlet sequoia
your talents are a bit questionable
brisk forge
Check up the bacis on wowhead/ravenholth
faint harness
@shrewd night wups
idle cedar
@brisk forge I used Icy-veins
scarlet urchin
@lyric glade one is patchwerk sim and one is dungeon slice sim, can't compare that at all
lyric glade
ofc he got more ilvl but i want understand if e.g. the "Double Dose" tratis are thaat impacing
oh wtf didnt saw that -.-
sry!#
faint harness
@shrewd night Where are essence abbreviations? Bote, CLF, VOP
idle cedar
@scarlet sequoia I put talents according to icy-veins :<
crimson palm
@idle cedar EP MA
brisk forge
And shit trinkets, essences
So work on that first
Dunno about your playstyle since u havent linked wcl
scarlet sequoia
can still want to optimize current gear as much as possible tho
brisk forge
Warcraftlogs*
scarlet sequoia
get better gear is quite terrible advise
gleaming viper
@lyric glade one sim is patchwerk, other is dungeon slice
brisk forge
Use topgear aswell, not Quicksim
pliant apex
is there a certain amount of corruption i shoudnt go over ? or always prefer corrupted gear with cloak 10?
brisk forge
Nah, gear will help with dps 🧐
scarlet sequoia
sure but it’s terrible advise none the less
shrewd night
It is
pliant apex
im confused
outer hearth
so you want to do more dps? press your buttons correctly and get better gear
pliant apex
so should i go for all corruption
outer hearth
105% guaranteed
pliant apex
or should i limit corruption
scarlet sequoia
don’t go over 39 if you’re insecure
outer hearth
^
scarlet sequoia
59 if you can manage
crimson palm
59 for HC 39 for M
brisk forge
Well if your gear is fucked up ofc that will impact the dps output 🙄
shrewd night
'Get better gear' as a catch all advise is terrible, since it doesnt give them any direction for what to improve on gearwise, whether it be stats or specific pieces of gearing/essences that would further improve their gameplay.
outer hearth
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/droptimizer get better gear
shrewd night
You can give advise without logs, but the advice will be alot more specific and accurate with logs.
crimson palm
The generic stuff is there on icyveins
shrewd night
don’t go over 39 if you’re insecure
scarlet sequoia
and an essence that gives resistance too
shrewd night
Cant get any clearer than this
outer hearth
if you go over 39 a dude will chase you and kill you
pseudo hamlet
Is there any azerite BIS list? I mean, something I should aim for? (yeah, yeah -> sim everything, but we had, for example, Gorak Tul shoulders for titan tesiduum which were bis)
brisk forge
Not kill you insta tho, except if u’re Low on hp
outer hearth
bloodmallet has sims for best pieces
scarlet sequoia
it depends on your gear @pseudo hamlet
outer hearth
check it out
scarlet sequoia
high haste you want vexiona chest, gorak tul and ra-den head
crit you want last 2 bosses azerite and ra-den head
or swirling sands head from vendor
scarlet sequoia
yeah
crimson palm
The PvP chest heads are also pretty good
scarlet sequoia
same as ra-den head yeah
pseudo hamlet
Considering my chances of killing N'Zoth this month(or even patch) I shall focus on Ra-den, Vexiona and Gorak Tuls then. Thanks guys 🙂
lyric glade
I have a Question regarding the opener for my Talent / Azerite setup:
Do i apply the 2 Garrots on the same target or is it meant to G1, R1, G2 ?
Numbers = targets
young portal
Both Garrotes on the same target
lyric glade
thank you sir
jagged elk
hey guys, got a question
im running a lot of m+ and im not sure how many corruption i should take. i got a dagger with +60, giving me echoing void, a ring giving me +35, also echoing void and some legs ho give me + 15 with versa buff
any recommendations? greetings
quartz rune
Play as much as your comfortable playing with
Some people feel comfortable with up to 39 some with up to 59
faint trout
I’ve been using this opener too, but I’ve also wondered why are we casting garrotte twice so close to each other?
scarlet urchin
to get a longer duration on the empowered garrote
quartz rune
So the first 3 globals are stealth as in u get max duration and max damage garrotes
faint trout
Ah ok that makes sense, thanks
quartz rune
U also dont wanna refresh the dot until it runs out if your running SS
faint trout
That’s only the empowered one tho right? So the one from opener and after vanish
quartz rune
Yes
faint trout
Cool, thanks
pliant apex
which site where to see bis gear
quartz rune
You can check icy veins but BiS really depends on ur Corruptions / stat weights etc so
tropic ocean
@jagged elk i run 60 corruption in m+
but if you're not confident surviving the things should go <
deep wedge
anyone using surging vitality ? how does the proc rate feel ?
spark sky
Pretty inconsistent. Had between 0-10% uptime yesterday on some early heroic bosses
keen dome
Same here, far from the optimistic 45% i simmed for...
deep wedge
Hmm so that's normal I guess, I've been simming for 45% uptime too but i had very low uptime during my raid last night, just wanted to make sure thanks
winter gale
Is it still best to play with max 39 on progression?
Should I sacrifise 2k sim dps for that?
crimson palm
Best is whatever you can manage without being a burden on the team
idle ember
I think that's a personal accountability/how much your healers tolerate potential failure question.
winter gale
Yes, I get it.
idle ember
I have a belt that's a 4k simmed patch increase but I don't wear it because I'm not good enough on progression to manage thing from beyond. Plus it's pretty obvious when people run high corruption and die, then are sat without figuring out the two things are linked.
modest tendon
Rogues really do have a lot of ways of dealing with corruption no?
winter gale
Got ‘smeagoled’ by it and now I sucked badly for last raid day and I got benched for next progress.
modest tendon
Perhaps assa less so than outlaw
winter gale
Not all of us are of same skill I guess 😦
modest tendon
I like what your saying dude, survivability > dps on progression
Biggest dps loss is dying so
idle ember
I had a thing from beyond pop during a fixate with purple swirls right before phase 2 on doggo.
Since then, pass on above 39.
digital sphinx
Anyone have tips on how best to use razor coral on ilgynoth? Or even what happens to stacks when he "hides"?
digital sphinx
Cool, at least I can formulate a strategy then. Thanks!
quartz rune
Timings all depends on ur Raids dps. But u still want to line it up as usual
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue abbreviations: http://www.ravenholdt.net/rogue-abbreviations/
rigid mango
For that
atomic willow
can you vanish the slime focus on Shad'Har mythic to avoid that mechanic or you still have to run out?
rigid mango
I've done it out of pure rng and popping cds right as it targets me
And if the person tigers lusting/freedoming me was fast enough to do it on me before I vanished the new target is fucked
faint harness
the existing abbreviation isnt listing essences
rigid mango
Idk ask fuu to update it, even if it's pinned or in a command no one will use it
shrewd night
I dont personally think it needs to list essences as they are rather eplanatory by themselves.. But deliver a list to us and we can look into adding it, I guess.
faint harness
Only reason it was brought up cus someone was asking about the rogue ability "BOTE" and what it meant.
crimson palm
@digital sphinx depending on raid DPS -> if you use vendetta on second organ, you'll use. coral during the final boss burn. Else you can pop it during each vendetta window on the boss
strange python
mythic plus its better 3 EB or 3 SS ?
I have items with 3 SS and 1 EB or 3 EB and 1 SS
white wyvern
3 SS
tired quiver
I just got back to raiding again and maybe I missed this in a guide or previous talks. Do we pop coral every vendetta window or is it first time and hold it for later?
quasi pewter
every vendetta
tired quiver
Cool thanks been doing that wrong then lol
strange python
I hold my coral yesterday for execute range in mault mythic
its not a big deal
use in every vendetta its better
scarlet sequoia
execute range as rogue 
shy dust
You don’t run dispatch @scarlet sequoia ?
scarlet sequoia
yeah i do
tropic ocean
@kind eagle doesnt matter if detection procs something you dont use 
kind eagle
@tropic ocean :/ feelsbadman
tropic ocean
ik
3 t2 ev in bank for good memories
Next to my titanforge socketed eye of command 💔
faint harness
eye of command kreygasm
inner sonnet
is it ever worth using FoK in ST to cap CPs? I've always just finished with 4
rigid mango
No
modest tendon
Could do it with hidden blades talented?
tidal dust
Any rogue of whom i can get some help with why i am underperforming in raids regarding my damage? My gear is fine etc.
inner sonnet
can you share a log?
potent raft
silent parcel
How accurate are dungeon slice sims?
crimson palm
@tidal dust your third vendetta window is suspicious
tidal dust
You mean regarding with TB?
red plaza
also, how much corruption are you running with? from your shadhar logs I'm only seeing your infinite stars. Heart of Darkness azerite doesn't activate until 25 corruption
tidal dust
i was running with 60-80
red plaza
ah, the weapon corruption doesn't show on summary, but i see the appendages. thought you cleansed those for a second XD
tidal dust
no no! i got 3 mindflays and 1 infinity star and like 30 more corruptions pieaces but finding it hard to play above 70-80 so normally around 60
I feel like im doing worse by each raid and tbh im not sure way. I see the vendetta window now as you mentioned
crimson palm
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8YNqvLXCH2mkTzG6#fight=12&type=damage-done&source=20&pins=0%24Separate%24%23244F4B%24casts%24-1%24114437211.0.0.Rogue%240.0.0.Any%24true%240.0.0.Any%24true%24245389|245388^0%24Separate%24%23909049%24resources%240%24114437211.0.0.Rogue%240.0.0.Any%24true%240.0.0.Any%24true%240%24103 here's a comparison with my log (80%)
& you missed a TB window between 1:30 and 2:00
valid sphinx
had a really bad raid last night for the fights I was on the rogue, first one after the EV nerf.. can somebody take a quick look at shad'har and see if anything is super wrong? maybe i messed up TB pooling on this fight or something but my damage is l o w https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZGt7xyRzbPwdmFAT#fight=39&type=damage-done&source=158
wow analyzer reports nothing wrong https://wowanalyzer.com/report/ZGt7xyRzbPwdmFAT/39-Heroic+Shad'har+the+Insatiable+-+Kill+(4:04)/Jrn/standard
zinc coyote
Just trying to secretly git gud at rogue
tidal dust
!ui
zinc coyote
What the f does tb pooling mean?
valid sphinx
pooling energy before toxic blade casts
scarlet urchin
Pooling energy before TB to get more envenoms in
zinc coyote
Fasho thank you
scarlet urchin
It seems you are playing subterfuge without any shrouded suffocation traits, that's one problem at least @valid sphinx
valid sphinx
sims higher single target atm
sturdy python
Yeah a lot of people are finding that to be true atm, same for me
valid sphinx
does for a lot of people, sounds like it scales better into higher ilvls
plus i strongly prefer Subterfuge to MA so if its only a 100-300 dps difference either way im gonna play subt
saves me lots of tomes for multi target fights too lol
wild mural
The only major thing I saw was you didn’t hold vendetta for your second vanish
Usually you want to line the two up so that your empowered garrote is under your vendetta
valid sphinx
ahh i was thinking that didnt matter with subt that was probably part of it
scarlet urchin
Ah I see, I believe the opener is G-R-G for subterfuge?
wild mural
It still buffs garrote damage by 80%
valid sphinx
nah only with SS traits
good to know kyle ty
frustrating because i feel like im playing near perfect but damage is so low, not sure if its just corruption RNG or shitty stats/not having a 445 razor coral
my corruption was s o good then they nerfed EV and honestly feels like im just gonna purify my 60 EV belt
certainly will as soon as i get carapace dagger
dark lily
in 5 of your tb windows you only got two envenoms
rigid mango
which is fine
valid sphinx
i dont think my haste is high enough to consistently get 3 even when i pool, have to get lucky crits
and simc still doesnt care about haste at all, think its my worst stat
cobalt pelican
play seems pretty fine tbh, shitty killtime in bad gear
you don't have any hasted corruptions so it's pretty normal for haste to be not that hot
just drop worldvein when you're playing in raids like this every log i look at just has like <50% 4stack uptime
you'd benefit a little bit from generally slowing down on your button pressing cause you're bottoming out on energy at low haste pretty much all fight but it's not really that much damage lost, like ~5-6% elaborate uptime anda couple percent envenom at best
valid sphinx
hmm thats interesting insight thanks, i probably should throw up a weakaura to track elaborate i kinda forget about it
cobalt pelican
you don't have to worry about it too much but it's just a good habit to get into to like
not be mashing your mutilate as hard as humanly possible waiting for the energy to come up
there's so much room in the assassination rotation at low haste to just chill out
zinc coyote
Y’all talking about haste, how much haste is like a good amount? I can’t seem to get anything other than crit/mast but my rogue is about 2 weeks old. Sims got me stacking crit but I’m sitting at like 33% crit 13% haste and 41% mast lol
valid sphinx
rigid mango
valid sphinx
i understand the principle of why you dont need to mash mutilate cause obviously as long as you're not capping energy its no damage lost, however on the opposite end i havent really found the justification not to just spend the energy as it comes up as long as you're pooling for TB. does it just come down to elaborate uptime?
cobalt pelican
it's not just uptime per se, you can have lower uptime but better usage if that makes sense, if you're floating 20 energy the entire fight you'll go into some envenoms with 0 energy, noodle a no crit mutilate and the second will fall outside elaborate planning for no reason
if you have no elaborate up already and you're at 4/5 cp and envenom buff is still rolling but you're at 20 energy what is the point of envenoming again rather than just either waiting for envenom to trail off or have 100~ energy
valid sphinx
ooh yeah i see what you mean that makes total sense
arctic walrus
It’s not difficult to see how mathematically front loading more damage inside windows of increased dmg yields more damage than spacing casts out, some falling in or out of those windows
cobalt pelican
it's pretty minor gains overall but for something that basically becomes habit after a few pulls it's super worth it
but like i said generally your play is fine, your gear just sucks you killed a boss 2 seconds before vendetta was ready and your major essence basically worked at half value
valid sphinx
what's the main issue with my gear you figure? my ilvl is obviously reasonably solid but i dont know what major goals for getting different gear would be
445 razor coral? right now ive just got a 415 and my weird trinkets both sim higher
ashen solar
here
i simmed you
@valid sphinx
roughly a 2.5% gain over what you currently have
i'll sim again to test enchants/gems
valid sphinx
Huh interesting I must have some real odd gear on at the moment cause after EV nerf i was simming 64k
ashen solar
you had aoe gear on so i had to alter it to match the gear in your shad'har parse
fuck
i had lust off
that's probably why
valid sphinx
ahh that might explain the low number
ashen solar
kk im doing a new sim
valid sphinx
looks like MA once again took over subt by a touch on pure single target which is interesting
not sure what is making it go back and forth for me, maybe because my trinkets got swapped around a bunch on tuesday
valid sphinx
gimme one sec im on the work laptop but i can grab it
ashen solar
kk
ashen solar
mhm
crimson palm
Subt -200 DPS on ST
I should probably just switch to it completely no?
Since the only pure ST bosses are Maut and Dog
scarlet sequoia
and ilgynoth
crimson palm
You can pad on the blobes 😄
scarlet sequoia
ye but why would u pad
crimson palm
Would be a dps increase over MA
scarlet sequoia
highly doubt it but u do u bro
wouldnt go subterfuge without any ss traits unless its a like 500 dps increase
arctic walrus
You ain’t running it?
scarlet sequoia
doesnt sim higher
arctic walrus
Ah dope
arctic walrus
@rigid mango should I be playing sub the same way you do with ss or follow sims. It uses gar mut rup opener then doesn’t line up for 2nd vendetta
crimson palm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/grcKx5RS29YhmwcC2W655n with a SS trait (though on 465 ilvl)
I'm at 59% mastery, might be why
maiden raptor
When would be the best time to use the troll racial? During Vendetta or after the Vendetta window? Since i'm playing with Galecaller's atm i'm unsure if i should use both or even just one during the ven window cause i fear that i get more energy than i'm able to use and waste a lot
valid sphinx
yeah wrathion trinket is one of the trinkets id use over anything else even if it was a 200-500 dps downgrade lol
the wings are cool enough to justify the loss in dps imo
rigid mango
Do as the sim says @arctic walrus
Atleast on the first vanish, dunno I still think aligning is just better
tropic surge
should i mutilate the explosive orbs or just melee?
mighty elm
garrote and rupture it
crimson palm
ignore them
ocean ore
how do u guys play as sin in m+? what is our major damage in a tiranical week?
scarlet sequoia
poisoned knife
tropic surge
you guys are too funny
mighty elm
fair delta
how do u guys play as sin in m+? what is our major damage in a tiranical week?
Good question though
valid sphinx
with 3xSS and subt your top damage over an entire dungeon will almost certainly be garrote
followed by FoK/EB if you're playing EB traits
AoE M+ build Assassination sure feels bad to me in high tyrannical keys though ill tell u what
the tradeoffs you have to make as ass for ST/M+ are huge
mighty elm
or you have 7 tentacle traits and let it top for you 
arctic galleon
Idk doesn’t feel that bad imo. Def not as good as running a raid build and traits but not the worst
But I’m just a shit tier player sooo
valid sphinx
as much as it physically hurts me to say it, i do think outlaw is better for high tyrannical keys 🤢
ornate gazelle
Anyone have a Blind target macro for Thing From Beyond?
ornate gazelle
Ahh
valid sphinx
contrary to popular belief though i do think assassination with the correct traits is actually better for high fortified keys
sharp dust
someone can help me with logs? -.-" low envenom damage idk what doin bad ...
ocean ore
CT for fortified weeks is better i think
tiranical adds almost dont live to dots make the real damage
white wyvern
The copy pasta is:
PB: KR, SoB, and Tyr ToS.
CT: The rest.
sharp dust
@honest vessel PM x) ty !
white wyvern
Simming dungeons will never be that accurate. Too many variables on routes, pull sizes, etc.
whole mantle
wich is Tyr?
white wyvern
Yes, only use to keep bleed up. Don't spam it.
fading wigeon
strange python
is vop considered good for sin?
tender folio
And how do we feel about EV after the nerf ?
honest vessel
not bis st anymore but still decent and good on aoe
rigid mango
It's quite dogshit for all content
One of the worst you can possibly have for ST and at best mediocre.
strange python
im coming from outlaw and adrenaline rush with vop was nice so i was thinking maybe vop minor would be good since vendetta is a big cd
honest vessel
its not good most of the time cuz using vendetta without vanish loses a lot of damage
strange python
ah ok ty
honest vessel
im surprised to see the herodamage set doesnt use NP anymore
heart of darkness just that good?
white wyvern
HoD is good, but don't rely on HeroDamage either.
honest vessel
no ofc not always sim
white wyvern
ofc
honest vessel
just an interesting thingy
cuz thats a theoretical bis list right
thats kinda the point of the combinations tab
white wyvern
theoretical BiS doesn't really exist.
white wyvern
theoretical.
BiS doesn't really exist.***
honest vessel
i put theoretical because its not a list of items you should try to get
white wyvern
Was supposed to be two separate statements.
honest vessel
oh gotcha
tender folio
So are we supposed to roll with twilight devastation now for myth+ or those stat increase bonuses ?
latent gazelle
What sims best of whatever you have/can get
white wyvern
TD is pretty good.
A crit or mastery corruption is probably good too.
Take dungeon sims with a grain of salt.
tropic ocean
probably big in m+ too
ornate gazelle
Is there a guide somewhere that shows all the stuff that can be cheesed with Cloak and Cheat Death in Ny'alotha?
latent gazelle
Wowhead ny’alotha tips n tricks for sin maybe? Idk if those are bad or good tho
hallow coyote
Wrathion
Cloak removes the stacking slow from creeping madness and prevents reapplication while cloak is up.
Maut
Cloak immunes Stygian Annihilation and the damage reflect from Obsidian Skin
Skitra
Ends Shred Psyche, spawns add
Xanesh
Ends Soul Rend effect entirely
Vexxiona
Immunes her P3 effect, I think you still take haste debuff if not near anyone else
RaDen
Don't know, I haven't got hit with mechanics on Heroic and haven't seen it on Mythic
Hivemind
I've just used it to ignore the damage from void zones and stuff
Shadhar
Pretty sure it ends the fixate mechanic with no downside?
Ilgynoth
Not sure, lve only done this fight a couple times and haven't tested it much
Drestagath
Cleanses the stun debuff, procs the on expiration stun on anyone around you though
Carapace
Cleanses Insanity bomb, procs the on expiration effects
Nzoth
I haven't tried to use Cloak while affected by Paranoia, not sure how it works
That's just based on my personal experience and memory of the encounters
crimson palm
On Ra-Den you'll probably use cloak for soaking
And you can cheese the big circle so the raid doesn't take dmg
vestal dagger
is the dungeon slice sim to be trusted as assassination? or ever? just curious
white wyvern
It can give you like a rough idea, but the answer isn't just like with ST.
vestal dagger
trying to choose between 440 spyglass and 470 harlan's
crimson palm
Sim 3 targets patchwerk for 1-2 min and you'll get a rough idea
vestal dagger
ty. the crit from spyglass seems pretty good with 3 EB.
raw monolith
is there any stats that favor Infinite stars stacking?
white wyvern
Haste, but
valid sphinx
470 harlans almost definitely beats a 440 spyglass in mythic plus me thinks
vestal dagger
yeah. i just did 3 sims for 1, 2, and 3 minutes on 3 targets and harlan's wins by about 800 dps each time
that's with 2 ss and 2eb
white wyvern
Yeah I mean if it wins on 1 target it will win on anything above 1.
vestal dagger
also, is echoing void just dead now? i got a r3 ev belt the first week of heroic which was huge, but now gets beat by lots of other stuff
rigid mango
Pretty much.
valid sphinx
no level of echoing void is worth the corruption it costs to wear it unless you have legitimately nothing else
solemn meadow
valid sphinx
+15 corruption gushing wounds will do the same amount of damage as a max rank echoing void
valid sphinx
because blizzard is garbage
valid sphinx
they just arbitrarily nerf corruptions in such a way that one will always be significantly better than the others, and if you dont have that one you do 20% less damage than people who do, then they nerf the one you have so that it's useless but there's still one just as broken that they may or may not ever make changes to, completely arbitrarily
and they don't seem to know how to not do that with any system they implement for the last 5 years for some reason
hallow coyote
People want a lot of cool, asymmetrical effects. Disparate effectiveness is baked right into that idea.
valid sphinx
sure it's fun, but when your ability to get 99%+ parses relies on multiple levels of RNG both in long term loot drops and short term fight RNG, its just kinda ehh
i just dont understand why they continually put such GIANT variance on stuff like this. like how is 150 avoidance based on haste, and 25% of your damage over the course of a boss fight on the same loot table? it makes no sense and they continue to do it. it would be so much more fun for everybody if every single one of them was OP but different
likely however that they have taken this all into account and the psychologists they have on board have determined that items dropping in such a way generates maximum revenue.. hot garbage tho
solemn meadow
like arms is one of the few specs
that has no corruption with rng that is really good for it
haste from all sources > everything
vast forum
for m+?
ocean ore
for m+ in any affix (tyranical and fortified) sould i run 3 ss 2 EB and 1 ???, or have some setups for each afix?
hallow coyote
It's because the game is never going to be balanced around getting top rank parses
That's a concern for a very small minority of the player base.
white wyvern
3 SS 2 EB is good and is all you will need. 3 SS 3 EB is better.
ocean ore
even for tyranical 3 EB is that good?
velvet geyser
Still lots of trash in the places
white wyvern
Yes, pull fat. Big 
.
ocean ore
Sin in m+ lost hes value of haste, but i feel my single target too garbage
on boss fights
even with vendeta up, i can get a good burst
but after burst = trash dps
should i put some haste?
rigid mango
Your setup changes dependant on dungeon more than affixes
feral flare
How far will assassination take me in M+? My friends and I plan on pushing Mythics pretty hard soon. Im dead set on sin though. Id rather not change to Outlaw, but if its make or break after a certain key level ill consider it.
rigid mango
On par to outlaw.
Just hard to gear it and optimise it
and not as simple to just rock in and make it work
feral flare
On par meaning its equal to outlaw?
rigid mango
Yus.
feral flare
That's good to hear.
subtle tundra
you need good gear tho
feral flare
Because I can spec into an AoE version of Sin. Right now im raid spec'ed. So theres more AoE to be had if I want without going Outlaw.
subtle tundra
with outlaw getting 1 wits and deadshots/aces is easy
getting ss/eb pieces is hard on assa
there's only 1 head in the game with ss/eb afaik
tiny sierra
how do u sim corruption effects on raidbots?
subtle tundra
and traits is the most important thing for assa
rigid mango
You just put your gear into raidbots?
feral flare
Wow here I thought azerite traits on armor were random rolls. That was a mistake, lol. So I can actually target specific prices of gear with specific traits on them?
tiny sierra
i mean like to compare two corruption effects to see which one to cleanse?
rugged tundra
Sin is not on par with outlaw imo
feral flare
Yeah its BETTER.. right? RIGHT?! Lol...
rugged tundra
Am 2k io current saison as sin rogue and got hard time to follow my outlaw friend
tiny sierra
im sitting at 58 corruption and i feel like it might be too much to deal with during raids, but im struggling to decide which of my two items to cleanse
feral flare
Justin you can use raidbots to compare what your dps will be like without each effect to see which is the lesser one.
tiny sierra
ok cool thank you!
dense axle
or just wear the old piece of gear and put on both when your cloak is high enough
dont cleanse if the effect is good, eventualyl youll be able to wear a TON of corrupted gear
rugged tundra
Look at morningwind/seli stream. They 80% of the Time last dps. Even tank compete with em on overall
tiny sierra
my two effects are echoing void (1% health damage) with 60 corruption on the piece and boots with an 8.3k dps mind flay add that adds 35 corruption
its just i know this is like a really shitty echoing void corruption. its not the best one so i figured its probably not worth it to deal with the thing from beyond during fights
feral flare
Farayzen - Whats keeping you from changing to Outlaw in that case? I wonder if its the same for me. Im just not sure if the difference is so drastic that I have to go out of my way to put a new build together for an off-spec I havent played since it was called combat.
dense axle
you can easily wear both of htose corruptino effects
95 - 35 - 10 (BOTD) = 50 coirruption
rugged tundra
Celestron - i did. Im now outlaw. But to be Honest i prefer sin
dense axle
35 is rank 10 cloak
feral flare
Was it worth the change? Like did it make a big difference with your runs or did you just change to keep up with your friend? How much of a difference was there?
feral flare
Hm. That doesnt seem like much.
rugged tundra
I changed to be on par with em
tiny sierra
does the thing from beyond and the huge radius of the eye not matter? cause even just doing wq's its a pretty big radius and on fights like Ra-den p2 where you have to stack together for group healing do i just eat the damage?
rugged tundra
We play sin/outlaw/ havoc
tiny sierra
sorry im just coming back after a while and these corruption effects are making my head spin a bit
dense axle
the radius at 50 corr isnt huge, you can cloak, cloak, or Elusiveness and Feint, or just tank the dmg - it's not that much in a raiding situation
just save your cloaks for those stack situations
rugged tundra
Always finish third dps overall. Now its more equal
dense axle
when you NEED to be able to move (Xanesh soccer) or stack like raden
feral flare
And what about utility? I know OL has that grappling hook, but beyond that is there anything more an OL rogue can do then a Sin rogue for the group?
dense axle
gouge is pretty nice interrupt for some trash mobs
white wyvern
Sin can work just as well as Outlaw. Sin is just harder to optimize.
valid sphinx
gouge is a pretty big bonus over sin, i swap around what i play in mythic plus cause i get bored playing one thing, and i really miss gouge when i dont have it
rugged tundra
Dps / bte / stunt who dont need combo to use.
valid sphinx
with bte and gouge outlaw sort of has 2 more interrupts than sin does
like sure you could kidney shot but that always feels so weird compared to just having bte part of your rotation
rugged tundra
Exact
valid sphinx
plus my single target/2 target damage is significantly higher as outlaw compared to sin with AoE traits
rugged tundra
I feel like SS should have is nerf removed to be on par with other dps
tiny sierra
Thank you for your answers! Ill keep both effects for the raid tonight and see how it works out
rugged tundra
And with 3xSS 3xEb the single in tyr week is meh
valid sphinx
worse than meh i'd say, its pretty bad
rugged tundra
empower garote fade fast and eb worth nothing in single
So u spec to compete hardly in aoe/cleave but dont keep up on single
Its frustrating
valid sphinx
Maybe subtlety is the play 😂
rugged tundra
Plus low haste make it quite boring
dire spoke
what if you're not supposed to outdps every single group member in any scenario
rugged tundra
Haha sub😂
I dont Ask to outdps. We Talking about the pro/cons of sin vs outlaw
Havoc have this right?
subtle tundra
havoc is beam beam fel barrage i do damage 
rugged tundra
Il dont know em but i guess u right
mint echo
hey guys, for Nyalotha raid, what pre-pot do I want to use? Unbridled?
rugged tundra
Anyway i love sin. Its just not on par when u play with good player.
candid jacinth
hey all, my sims recommend taking heart of darkness over SS, is that a good idea?
rugged tundra
Hmm. Not the best for sure. But pretty sure am ok at 95%
subtle tundra
95% what
rigid mango
I mean you can chat all the shit you want
but seli can contest every good player in the world
honest vessel
its really not that bad
rugged tundra
Nah lol
rugged tundra
Idc
honest vessel
its like a teir
rugged tundra
He play with god player
honest vessel
tier*
subtle tundra
wellllllllllll?
rugged tundra
Look their meter man
rigid mango
He is a god tier player?