prepping for ev nerf simming without any ev traits
#assassination
open wolf
have blissard said what nerf EV will receive? not very fond of being left in the dark, as I have a raid in an hour and my sims prefer tier 3 EV over tier 3 twilight devastation and I would need to remove certain corruptions to wear my BIS sim gear
open wolf
are you aware of any possible way to sim that?
next solar
just ignore EV and sim otheer stuff lol also other things are being buffed
cobalt pelican
there's a post in #tc-research about how to manually apply the changes but till next tues you don't have to care rly
and by that point it'll be on raidbots
open wolf
yeah im just not sure how to sim my wep as an 'uncorrupted' piece
to see what my damage wearing t3 TD would be
timber meadow
oh that's just a functionality within raidbots currently
open wolf
oh
timber meadow
you can cleanse a piece
open wolf
oh you can cleanse certain pieces?
wasn't aware of that, i know that it can autocleanse
bleak spoke
man the sim doesn't hold vendetta for vanish anymore
open wolf
would anyone be extremely nice and help me 'equip' a 465 Trixie's backup backbiter without a corruption? just so I don't have to go through the learning process myself
i would really appreciate that greatly
i will ask in #tc-research
cobalt pelican
#tc-research is for actual research
open wolf
uhh
cobalt pelican
corruptions are only a bonus id applied to your gear
raidbots only has an option to 'duplicate all gear uncleansed'
if you want to manually remove a single corruption
you'd have to amend the string
open wolf
yeah i have that ticked but still only the weapon with the corruption appearing
i suppose i'll just remove bonus id's until i hit the correct one
cobalt pelican
link the sim
td is ass so you might have to scroll down 500 miles to find a td set
open wolf
hold on ill just sim my current gear and change 1 essence or something
if you could paste the weapon for me so i can just replace it that'd be fine
this was the sim i was getting with the dagger being corrupted https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sQzonP6RBKUJvufQ8svjbV
i would just like to see difference before i actually cleanse anything, so I don't screw myself over
dull inlet
so, uh... I've been running outlaw this patch, but I'm super tempted to swap to assass. Convince me one way or the other.
drifting cloud
For what content?
dull inlet
Raiding and Keys
open wolf
you want double dose
dull inlet
my key groups do modest pulls
open wolf
i prefer running 1 SS
on add fights
but if your guild needs ST
and you don't care about logs
then just run double doses
obv sim if you can
open wolf
oops
dull inlet
I mean both
marble hemlock
well, he asked about raiding and m+
open wolf
well
marble hemlock
what braie said is correct about raiding
open wolf
for raiding you want DD
marble hemlock
for m+ you want a combination of ss/eb/ttk
open wolf
yea
marble hemlock
try to go for 3ss/3eb right now tho
dull inlet
these abbreviations, omg, looking them up RQ
marble hemlock
ss = shrouded suffocation, garrote trait
ttk = twist the knife, envenom trait
eb = echoing blades, fok trait
dull inlet
aha,
mmmm, ty
so straight up ST in raids, screw SS except maybe one for the convenience, and stack DD like crazy... with that in mind, should I prefer Master Assass over Subterfuge in that situation? Or just do what the sim says?
I also have a ton of crit gear, and no daggers, lmao
marble hemlock
no ss for raiding, generally speaking
unless you really cant avoid it
we played SS in uldir, but ever since the raidtier that came after, DD has been the #1 choice
closely followed by ttk/np
crimson palm
SS is ok for padding & logs on some fights 😛
dull inlet
oh, I do see a single NP on most parses, I should def have one I suppose
dull inlet
I don't think so, but I will need practice if I am going to use Master Assass
dull inlet
like, with subterfuge, the opener was very straightforward
dull inlet
I do have a coral 😏
cobalt pelican
you don't have enough gear to not just
open wolf
because you can save vanish and have it as a mini-coral
cobalt pelican
click the box at the top of the green braie
quiet parrot
Those who have killed Heroic Nzyoth, what traits did you run for that? I did ST build 3x DD, and was very hard to keep up to other AOE padding classes
cobalt pelican
purifying the dagger is the -5665 option
open wolf
i still only have one show up
cobalt pelican
it will auto purify it
you don't have to select
several daggers
there will just be iterations with a purified dagger
like click on the raidbots link i posted
scroll down a bit
open wolf
oh i see
im an idiot..
jesus
sorry
i dont know how that went over my head
:p
thanks a bunch
seems like the legs are a general DPS loss anyway even after nerf
because of the corruption cost
cobalt pelican
td just kinda sucks in general, the nerfs aren't in the sim yet unless manually applied though
but i big doubt you'd play td3 over ev3 even after the nerf
magic sparrow
Anyone got a good target and blind macro for the Thing Form Beyond?
dull inlet
I've been too worried about dying to corruption, so I have yet to see a thing from beyond
eyeballs tho 
quiet parrot
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oe18xKYNcLc1mHds56vwGC
So WV Major is ST BiS. Other people must be seeing this as well.
scarlet sequoia
no just you
quiet parrot
😄
severe sedge
can we just pump drestágath with shield up or that does not count on log?
must be like guhun right?
hallow coyote
I can confirm, it does not
I jumped into the fight blind and didn't switch to adds except like once or twice and I got powerful 4️⃣ for a parse
severe sedge
xD
hallow coyote
I got a better parse on Maut when I died during phase 2 lmao
fading wigeon
Lol I did the same @hallow coyote
hallow coyote
That fight is boring as shit
tropic ocean
@hallow coyote very logic
but the adds take more dmg so parse-wise it would be good to dmg adds
hallow coyote
Yeah, lessons were learned
quiet parrot
Saving cloak for P2 Maut i still almost die
cerulean walrus
fleet whale
manage your load
deep solstice
I run 20% leech for mythic maut and still have to afk half of P2. 😦
wanton pond
Is the leeching poison worth on maut ?
deep solstice
100%
wanton pond
Do big brains run that ?
Hmm
Did a couple pulls last night didn't use it
Guess im just trolling
It's in the same row as cheat death right ?
deep solstice
leeching essentially acts as DR during shield phase
if you are confident you wont need cheat, then leeching is way better for dps that fight
deep solstice
elusiveness is a bigger DR in the short term, but you should be cloaking your MA burst anywya....leech is a higher average DR
rigid mango
Yeah but after your TB window you shouldn't be taking enough
deep solstice
Depends on your corruptions / dps.....I took more damage outside my burst window
(well, cloak + vial + health pot mitigated most of the burst)
outer lotus
Also feint is a dps loss 
deep solstice
eh, if your alternative is to energy cap because you are dieing, not really
also, leeching poison is a 12% leech, not 10%. There is a bug that keeps the 2% from MP even after swapping back to EP
deep solstice
tell that to my hps
bleak spoke
man what
deep solstice
actually, you make a good point checking the log. I stand corrected
outer lotus
Is that true? Never knew you couldnt leech off aborbshields
deep solstice
dead zone during both obsidian skins
outer lotus
Damn
deep solstice
I never even thought to check that
royal lantern
probably because you dont do dmg on hp, but on mana?
deep solstice
ya same reason you technically cant crit ashvane shield, even though you do critical damage
so ya, elusiveness 100% I guess
zealous lily
Question about Bloodmallet and the nyalotha trinket set
My sim on raidbots has my 460 set performing worse than my mythic TF font / coral combo, but Bloodmallet suggests that it should be superior
I run various fights with the trinket combo and outperform my raidbots sim, but on fights where coral is viable i still use font/coral combo.
rigid mango
Listen to sims not bloodmallet.
zealous lily
Apparently Raidbots is supposed to be considering the trinket combo correctly but I am not sure why Bloodmallet would be considering it better - maybe a quirk of the template
Will continue to do that then.
Also hard to say when a fight is "outperforming my sim" when there can be so much variance with corruption procs...
brittle lantern
Bloodmallet is a specific set of gear which very likely does not match yours
winter fulcrum
what are the best ST essences in you guys opinions
hallow coyote
!Essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
tender escarp
Hello guys! Both Ra-den trinkets vs Vita and mythic Wrathion trinket?
brittle lantern
Sim it!
opal minnow
Whatever sims best
brittle lantern
And remember the set bonus is only in the raid.
tender escarp
Yeah, I mean raid usage only.
rigid mango
still just sim it
honest vessel
sims r good
vapid delta
if i have BotE rank 2, and no MA, do i still BotE after TB or before first TB because less duration?
vapid delta
i didnt play last tier so im budget, only have worldvein 2 to compete
and this still sims higher
zealous lily
i think the bloodmallet template is really misleading
rigid mango
It's very general.
zealous lily
For one it has gorak tul shoulders so that makes crit on the other parts less valuable
For another it has like a zillion gushing wounds pieces
rigid mango
That's why I say listen to sims not bloodmallet
Good that you realise this though (:
They're not helpful for the average person
zealous lily
yeah i generally just do my sims but i have had a conspiracy theory that the trinket set was under simming
But like the bloodmallet has more corruption than you would ever run ... obviously gorak tul is gonna be first thing you buy for most rogues but no one will have it yet
deep solstice
I have been trying to get a void titanshard to test out uptime on the 2 set bonus, but they keep going to off spec healers and such
short arch
gorak ❤️
turbid osprey
best way to play skitra? damn thing keeps going into the mirror phase during cds
feel like theres nothing to do really
zealous lily
The uptime is identical for single piece and for double set
deep solstice
you literally do not have the set bonus without the set
zealous lily
No need to really test it will be the same they proc at same percentage as the single buff
yea
^--
deep solstice
1100 agi with 100% uptime would potentially make it a decent pair. If it's more like....50% or less, then it's trash
zealous lily
its not
deep solstice
it isn't ....what?
zealous lily
Her'es a vita log of mine https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/aHCBWfY3TmXZPbdn#fight=38&type=auras
deep solstice
I dont care about vita. I want to know the uptime of the 2 set bonus
zealous lily
36.72% uptime
Yeah whatever it's called
as you see it's the same uptime as the vita charged
Titanic Empowerment is the name of the set buff.
deep solstice
so only 15%
were you actively collecting the orbs, or just letting them reach you?
zealous lily
It just appears. You just get the buff.
zealous lily
This one had way worse uptime https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/J2NyC7kjbXDMhr4x#fight=1&type=auras&source=22
deep solstice
the proc rate on cvoid is super low as well, even if you manage to keep the shield up, the uptime is garbage
zealous lily
As u see the uptime is identical to Vita Charged procs simultaneously
deep solstice
ah, ya all 3 effects are in sync
zealous lily
At the time it was like world rank 22 so it's not like the trinket set suxx
It's just unreliable and gets worse with heavy raid dmg
deep solstice
I think it's more that the value of trinkets in general are just not that impactful to the overall damage on a longer fight, considering corruptions
zealous lily
Yeah everything is less proportionally relevant than a biggg mind flay
deep solstice
or detection spam echoing void
hard oak
yo guys quick question, just got some new legs... Should i switch out (echoing void rank 2 + haste rank 2) for twilight devistation rank 3?
hard oak
ty for quick answer
vital haven
i hate how inconsistent tendies are
sometimes its like my top dmg
sometimes its nonexistent
patent topaz
🤔
valid sphinx
At that point I’d just use the raden trinkets cause they’re easy and dope
If it’s within 300-500 dps just use what you prefer tbh.. irrelevant in the greater scheme of things
buoyant raptor
Yeah but one miss on razor and you’re boned. If your mechanics aren’t very great I would agree with Jaron
hazy iron
I agree, less things to go wrong meaning their dps would be more consistent pull to pull. I personally prefer font and coral though.
tropic ocean
@rigid mango detection also procs twisted appendage, dunno about gushing wounds might want to add it in pin
outer lotus
It doesnt matter what procs those though, since they are PPM. EV gains a stack for every global you cast which is why it actually has a use there
sturdy python
It might proc them but they’re ppm
desert ocean
Where’s my best place to really learn sin aoe well? I’ve seen the guides and comments but am not quite grasping it in practice.
tropic ocean
short arch
Spyglass instead of font would be a 330 decrease.. hm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/db2CuU4XNmA8VqdgPCMxBm
void pecan
What trinkets you guys using for M+?
crimson palm
Anyone progressing on hivemind using Crimson Tempest?
rigid mango
I came in for one pull and killed it if that counts?
crimson palm
lmao
are you one of those 24 that killed it :D?
i'm at 62% mastery i feel like i should be running crimson there
but no clue how to use it when ads are down
winter fulcrum
whats bis traits for m+?
harsh sphinx
the dmg on darters/ravagers is more important than CT for the little adds imo
crimson palm
Yeh but how big of a difference does poison bomb make
rigid mango
idk I just played CT and a bunch of mongo cleave
Save vanish for darters
Blast ravager when you can
A lot of bleed management
crimson palm
And do you re-apply CT on ST?
distant lava
no
crimson palm
Or what'd be a target threshold
devout bolt
worldvein on cooldown or line with toxic blade?
rigid mango
2+
devout bolt
no
not when u press tb on cooldown
3rd TB is up when WV has 10 sec cd left
when u press TB insta u get WV only after the TB window
then after 15 sec when WV has only 3 sec left, u get TB back
wide delta
does versa buff Twisted appendage damage?
devout bolt
hm okay
wide delta
does versa buff Twisted appendage damage?
outer lotus
Yes xianshu
wide delta
oh thatswhy versa scales so much
outer lotus
Well it also scales with crit and haste
outer lotus
Yes
sullen hearth
anyone have a particularly good Razor coral WA
devout bolt
@tropic ocean quick sim rotation says press WV and TB on cooldown without lining it
tropic ocean
@devout bolt then you got your answer
tardy jay
!opener
sage forum
any reason why my quicksim on raidbots is using detection in its rotation?
sage forum
aah thanks!
outer lotus
@warm parcel is the proc rate not affected by haste?
sturdy python
Some procs are purely rppm, others are hasted ppm
Usually can find the specific ones on wowhead
sturdy python
Yeah that’s true, corrected
cobalt pelican
i'm starting a conspiracy theory that ta is on old ppm as a test as to whether players enjoy it or not
join my tinfoil hat gang
warm parcel
lol
strange python
where do assas get their bis azerite from?
and is worldvein resonance necessary for sin?
cobalt pelican
raden/pvp helm, gorak/nzoth shoulders, vex chest prolly
'bis' even for azerite is pretty hard to put together in current game state
worldvein isn't required but is better than alternatives unless fight prohibits (major or minor, depends on gear)
bleak spoke
Is vex chest officially better than carapace chest
cobalt pelican
too close to rly call, it's ahead for me always and easier to get
might not be the case super longterm depending on what happens with gear but
dark crag
TA is so absolut random. One try it procs nonstop, next try is does less dmg than TD
drifting cloud
carapace makes your ilvl higher so its better
cobalt pelican
tru
hot copper
Any people on Xanesh that have some tips & tricks?
warm parcel
clf if you wanna bash boss
bote if you wanna cleave boss and first add
dont miss kicks
dont even think of using font
feint the soul flays
heavy forge
yo does corruption just not proc on target dummies or something
been whacking this for 5 minutes and infinite stars hasn't hit shit
white wyvern
IS doesn't proc on dummies.
bleak spoke
But it does proc on random stuff that you’re not in combat with that are in combat with each other
fleet whale
Glimpse of clarity is clearly the GOAT corruption
lusty narwhal
God I hate that font is still a requirement for so many classes
maiden raptor
What would be a good azerite loadout for m+. Like how many times should one stack EB or SS.
untold current
wanton pond
the mecha ring that says if i use three diff spells and ablities
does that really work for us?
warm parcel
why would it not
wanton pond
just wondering if it would be procing often
like mut env are two
and garrote every once and while
worthy moon
hey, question friends, in our Master Assassin opener. If you got Mut -> Rupture -> Mute -> garrote -> Guardian
Now what happens if second mute crits and you're at 5 CP here
Do you still vendetta, knife, vanish or just vendetta vanish
tardy narwhal
hey is 3x SS still good for m+? havnt played since launch BfA
subtle tundra
yes
3xss is baseline
(if you can get those)
and the other 3 ones are based on the dungeon/affixes
or what traits you can get
tardy narwhal
nice, just got my third SS Azerite
just had my doubts because it replaced a double dose piece
also, how do i sim aoe in raidbots?
tepid orchid
Does the thing from beyond count as an AoE that can be reduced by feint?
arctic walrus
does it deal aoe damage? no therefore it isn't reduced by baseline feint
tepid orchid
kk ty
manic prism
guys for heroic illg can u cloak of shadows the mc?
rigid mango
no
jovial adder
Does anyone have a macro to blind thing from beyond?
plain thistle
cobalt pelican
closest thing is prolly mouseover
jovial adder
thanks
sour pasture
Not good with macros anyone help me out with one that cast Vendetta then Toxic Blade
cobalt pelican
for what purpose
they're both on gcd so you'd need to press it twice regardless and use a castsequence
and you will need 2 buttons for them eventually
sour pasture
to use on CD instead of push Vendetta first then Toxic
cobalt pelican
you have the entire gcd window to reach toxic blade, a macro won't make it instant
sour pasture
Ah so you cant have one that will use them both and then if Vendetta not up moves to toxic
cobalt pelican
if they're both up a macro will just use vendetta when pressed once because both abilities are on global cooldown
if one is up it would just use whichever is listed first
sour pasture
Gotcha TYVM see told not good at macros 🙂
desert ocean
do we not use force multiplier?
cobalt pelican
sometimes we do sometimes we don't
seems to be worse and worse off the higher secondary value gets towards end expansion gear since mainstat is still ass but
might still be the best if you're running high %stat corruption and want double haste proc enchants rather than haste crit or something similar
sage forum
so what's the deal when I'm playing subterfuge and I empower garrote on pull and it fakes me out and initially says 3 CPs then drops back down to 2 CPs?
anyone get that?
lusty narwhal
What
sage forum
sometime on pull I will garrote from stealth and it will only give me 2 combo points
but it's weird because it initially says 3 CP on my CP tracker and then almost immediately drops down to 2
so I only get a 12 second Rupture on my opener and it fks my whole rotation. very frustrating
strange python
what cp tracker are you using?
sage forum
for my opener, garrote > rupture > garrote
strange python
never had it drop to 2 assuming you run SS
sage forum
yep
I do notice that it usually happens when I'm the first to engage boss
because I typically tricks tank, shroud, get right next to boss, and open immediately when timer hits 0
warm hatch
Ye u dont get to keep ur combo points from trash on a boss pull
sage forum
hmm so maybe if I'm the one to engage the boss it's somehow counting one of those combo points as happening pre-pull
cobalt pelican
do you have a log of it happening
sage forum
umm lemme look
okay so yeah that's what's happening
it's wiping my combo points because it's not counting them as happening during the encounter
strange python
K boys, quick Question.
Shad'har Heroic Kill from just now:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JG8Ztf4paH7mWzCQ#fight=last&ty=&type=damage-done
I'm the Rogue obviously.
I know Bleed and EP uptime could be better, but how the fuck is that only a 44% ilvl log? I know that shit like that doesn't HAVE to mean anything, especially not with corruptions, but I feel like I perfom pretty normal. I mean, it's 4am here and I was heeeella tired but besides the lower Uptime on those Things I didn't do much wrong ye?
Always 3 EV in TB Windows:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JG8Ztf4paH7mWzCQ#fight=last&type=casts&pins=0%24Main%24%23244F4B%24auras-gained%241%240.0.0.Any%24141370150.0.0.Rogue%24true%24157231.0.0.Boss%24false%24245389&source=14&ability=32645
And EP also never fell off during them.
Opener and Vendetta/Vanish lineups were also normal I think.
Then how the fuck can that be 44%?
cobalt pelican
uhh
drifting cloud
dont look at ilvl logs.
cobalt pelican
4 min kill time with shitty corruption unlucky
drifting cloud
theyre legit irrelevant 95% of the time
especially withj people wearing blue gear
shut pasture
drifting cloud
im 462 and I sim 73k
fallow otter
@strange python i see no i stars which will rule the parses for that fight
cobalt pelican
your ilvl is pretty high but you're playing kinda jank shit too especially for a short burst fight
like, raden set is ~okay~ but won't touch font coral on something like that
low ilvl mainhand
etcetcetc
but yea short answer is what ryler said
ignore ilvl, focus on playing well
brazen perch
how good is the raden set actually for assassin rogue?
strange python
ye, can't do anything about font and coral.
and obviously, i don't care about that metric. i was just really curious whether i was actually making huge mistakes, or whether corruptions etc. are still that huge
but i just remembered the compare feature
drifting cloud
well 4min is a really bad kill timer for dog
strange python
and looked at others with same killtime and ilvl
drifting cloud
so that doesnt help
strange python
ye, way better corruptions and trinkets
cobalt pelican
to give some reference you're like
fallow otter
@shut pasture at the moment I'm switching between bote, clf and wv depending on fight
cobalt pelican
1 ilvl bracket above me from last weeks heroic clear
but your gear is nowhere close
strange python
unlucky shit man
cba getting font and coral
corruptions will happen sometime soon i guess
cobalt pelican
for some additional reference this week i was in the same ilvl bracket as you (playing sub) and my ev did 2.1m dmg in a 2:58 fight
there's only so much you can do
fallow otter
I got 58k for one of our first heroic kills with 455 ilvl and I have junk corruption
For the dog
strange python
then point out what i did worse than you please
fallow otter
But my gear is top tier ep
strange python
ah
fallow otter
Gearing
fallow otter
Post a sim maybe you have a better combo in your bags that you don't know about
Im happy to look
twilit hollow
Are we still using unbridled fury? average pulls they do fuck all for me overall it feels like
astral tiger
on skitra, what would people recommend for trinkets? I have a 460 vita charged, a 430 dead eye w/ socket, 430 harlans, and a 445 coral (and a 450 inkpod). I was using coral but it stops stacking it whenever it disappears, any ideas? I know it's hard to be exact, but more-so looking for suggestions
cobalt pelican
prolly just vita deadeyes or something
the fights kinda a joke both to '''''progress''''' and to log on
so
manic prism
gorak tuls vs nzoth, assuming 475 vs heroic nzoth
what takes the cake
cause i dont think im clearing mythic nzoth anytime soon haha
cobalt pelican
goraks
strange python
how important is OH dagger ilvl?
cobalt pelican
not very
strange python
aight ty
tropic ocean
@manic prism raidbots.com
depends on other azerites too as nzoth has np which is very strong as a first trait and gorak tuls was usually super strong cuz u could take bbi
so if you have np somewhere else goraks probably significantly stronger than nzoth
fallow otter
Also OP minor ofc
lusty folio
question for n'zoth
what's the most appropriate vendetta usage?
do i save it for all burn phases?
feels wrong to hold it for so long
cobalt pelican
depends on your group and your goal really
if you just want to kill nzoth and your group is kinda low dam there's very little reason to use any on psychus
just have the tank change the pattern to extend the phase a tiny bit
if you want to do dam and your group is fine use on psychus/whatever
lusty folio
yeah it was our first kill as a group, and i'm a learning rogue, but there were some subpar dps in the group so i guess i did right in saving it
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/4vbPGVZjFNHQqfxr any tips for stuff i should work on? i'm the guy in 4th
drifting cloud
in boost runs id use it
as soon as 1st psyhus dies, then either or 2nd psychus/as soon as he dies, then Id just use it on a random tentacle, and then id get myself mced and use it at the end
thats assuming I was going in as 1st group
lusty folio
the synapses were dying pretty quickly
do i botter switching to them or i should just stick with psychus?
i was mostly sticking with it and using fok to apply deadly poison
fallow otter
Don't bother with fok
drifting cloud
dont fok for sure, as what to hit just depends on your overall raid dmg I guess
lusty folio
gotcha
lusty folio
yeah
fallow otter
You shouldn't have to swap to them tbh, but it depends on your group like @drifting cloud said
lusty folio
they were dying faster than i could apply dots
fallow otter
Yeh don't bother then
Atm I'm going down first and bailing at like 5% to get a font in and then blasting boss but I don't know if I'll be doing that long term or in mythic
Doubt I'll be using font but I'll find out later
fallow otter
Atm I'm thinking I might be using trinket set or haste one and first boss combo for nzoth depending on drops
It's free
tropic ocean
Dont bother hitting tent at all in first psychus
And just envenom if needed in 2nd or 3rd
and if u want to log vendetta on first psychus too
lusty folio
alright lol
fallow otter
Haha yeh it's a pad fiesta
tropic ocean
in last phase get mced after mind drag thing pop coral vendetta bote and pump
My best was 78.5 or smth
But i cant vendetta first psychus cuz of boost so if u can do that
Ez 80K +
what I also found out to be a good dps increase is using focused resolve on psychus/when u are mced on boss
over unbridled
cobalt pelican
font vita or something sounds the juice kinda
idk how you'd even play coral
might be ok if you set it up right but probably not
fallow otter
Yeah I've been going vita font atm but I'm thinking vita combo or first boss + vita might work
No doubt it will end up being vita and lustrous I guess?
@manic prism goraks is about 1k dps for me over heroic nzoth currently btw
full jungle
I like to keep dots on psycus and swap to synapse if its going a lik slow...
manic prism
@tropic ocean Okay those are some solid points! Thanks for the headsup
tropic ocean
🙂
civic hatch
anyone know why my marked for death macro isnt working in one cast?
/cast marked for death
/cast rupture
its requiring 2 cast instead of one even though mfd is not on the global
fallow peak
Are other people seeing mastery and versatility becoming better than haste crit for single target?
drifting cloud
they're all pretty even and just jump up and down depending on your current gear and corruptions
fallow peak
Gotcha, I’ve been surprised seeing that shift on my sims
civic hatch
ye master spiked ahead for me probably cus i have so little of it
honest vessel
idk mastery is my highest stat, still my best
fallow peak
Does versatility affect echoing void?
fallow peak
Hmmm
honest vessel
im not even running ev anyway 😛
cobalt pelican
haste doesn't really effect ev in any way
honest vessel
more gcd = more ev sliiiightly no?
cobalt pelican
rogues don't get reduced gcd from haste
fallow peak
After reset I might not be either lol
honest vessel
oh
more energy more buttons more ev?
if you arent doing detection?
does that count
🙂
unborn pendant
Is EV still BiS after the nerfs next week?
supple pelican
i have 4 devastation but no EV 
tropic ocean
devastation would be biggie on tonk
tropic ocean
blame heals
supple pelican
i pulled with all my corruption on
on raden
bursted like 450K 
died first orb LOL
sudden brook
@rigid mango yo
sudden brook
why does "exsang + eb" sim better than just
toxic blade eb
like what does exsang do for eb
arctic walrus
if it's on an aoe sim, it's not so much synergy between eb and exsang, but tb and eb being counter intuitive of one another
lusty narwhal
when dat 410 rank 1 infinite star ring sims better than your 460 socket
arctic walrus
the higher you stack eb, the more you "mongo fok" and dont finisher at all
lusty narwhal
nice game
arctic walrus
so exsang just lets you push out a little extra damage on the side while tb would only help poison dmg
quasi pewter
arctic walrus
oh no
arctic walrus
sorry you had to see
low junco
that's from m+ aswell 
low junco
tbh i am glad that ev is getting nerfed
ashen solar
Did you just get filtered
low junco
i have rank 3 twilight devastation which might fight with those pants
i am so confused with all those corruptions
fallow otter
Don't be shocked if TD gets adjusted
fallow otter
Expedient is pog
fallow otter
I just bought some t3 460 expedient boots because I stuck at looting corruption feelbadman
Probs be worth more after patch also
But for dps per corruption its very good
fallow otter
I was hoping deadly motivation was going to get a bit more of a bump than it did
low junco
i dont see it as useful, ur probably going to get good corruptions aswell
fallow otter
Going for horde oceanic first again
fallow otter
I haven't equipped yet, I'll wait until next week and see how it goes, I might get lucky before then
250k was worth the gamble
It ain't millions
low junco
idk ive seen ppl around spending like
giant amount of money on boes that they actually changed a week later
quartz rune
Well some people have so much Gold they just dont care too much and sometimes IT's just the i wann have one
buoyant kraken
What do we expect to be bis corruption overall for next reset?
arctic walrus
Some charts posted in #tc-research will give you an idea
tough vale
I did look at logs and did see that a few got good logs with blood major. Really liked that playstyle aswell.
But my rogue guildie said that worldvein major is best atm.
According to logs it is also a few that runs that.
Can't find more information about this, so any information would be helpful.
buoyant kraken
Idk, major essence sims right now seems really weird to me. Lucid and botd r2 is simming like 500 more than WV r3 with 3 allies.
They are a lot harder to use optimal tho
versed bobcat
I'm still not sure bout wv sim being realistic. BotE is such a fat burst, especially in bloodlust phases with pot. And nearly every boss forces you to move out of wv. (especially with huge corruption on top)
So I'm also about to try botE here and there and have a guess that it will be go to soon especially on nz and from there on backwards
(and drest, illgy..)
buoyant kraken
@arctic walrus are you telling me i made a major fuck up by cleansing r2 expedient on a 475 belt last week?
tough vale
So.. The answer is: we don't know?
faint harness
The herodam sim is with 6x gushing right?
expedient will be top because gushing wounds love haste
if you dont have that, you should probably just rely on personal sims
yea but there are people that look at graphs and follow them
its just a heads up
versed bobcat
@gusty kestrel yea sry, that's what I meant by realistic. Let's say, possible to execute in realistic situation
deep solstice
Just from my personal use, WV major performs extremely well on any fight where you can time it to get full value of 18 seconds in one spot
even on carapace you can make it work
just lose maybe 1-2 casts over the course of the fight holding it
that is prob enough to put it behind other options though
but at 80 neck you are looking at ~5k Agi buff for 1/3 of the fight .....easy to understand why it pumps when you get optimal uptime
crimson palm
It works perfectly on Nzoth during the burn phases - and in P3 you only have to line it up after the beams
And literally no reason to run it on carapace when bote is superior
graceful musk
is it worth it to delay tb while pooling ?
faint harness
never delay TB
graceful musk
even when I'm at almost zero energy ?
warm parcel
GW doesnt push expident to #1 spot or vice versa
The corruption sims are done with blank gear
You can also see this if you mouseover the items
fading wigeon
@graceful musk you need to pool before TB always. TB has to be used on cooldown.
potent raft
was there any resolution as to which is better?
WV -> Vend ->TB ->Vanish
or
Vend -> WV->... as some RTF rogues were doing (forgot the guild)
amber tiger
scarlet sequoia
blood
brisk crag
Hey there, I'm a bit lost when it comes to opening in Rogue Assa...
I could read and see different ways to open a fight :
Rupture
Mutilate (if still in master assassin window)
(Otherwise) Garrote
→ Mutilate till 4+ CP ←
→ Vendetta ←
Toxic Blade
Vanish
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ CP
Envenom [...]```
__or__
```Mutilate till 4+ CP
Rupture
Mutilate (if still in master assassin window)
(Otherwise) Garrote
→ Vendetta ←
→ Mutilate till 4+ CP ←
Toxic Blade
Vanish
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ CP
Envenom [...]```But also :
Rupture
Mutilate
Garrote
Vendetta
Toxic Blade
Vanish
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ CP
Envenom [...]```
__or__
```Mutilate
Rupture
Mutilate
Garrote
Mutilate till 4+ CP
Vendetta
Toxic Blade
Vanish
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ CP
Envenom [...]```
There are so many different ways to open that I don't know which one is better / more optimal...mutilate > if 4 cp: rupture, if not: mutilate > rupture > mutilate > garrote > essence > vendetta > toxic blade > vanish > envenom
if you play blood of the enemy use it after toxic blade instead
rigid mango
There's also a tldr in the pins
brisk crag
I know. But since I saw a lot of different things, I preferred to ask. /:
tropic ocean
what u posted are pretty much all the same openers
they just slightly change depending on your mutilate crits
Mutilate till 4+ CP
Rupture
Mutilate (if still in master assassin window)
(Otherwise) Garrote
→ Vendetta ←
→ Mutilate till 4+ CP ←
Toxic Blade
Vanish
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ CP
Envenom [...] where u got this from idk but this is wrong
kind steppe
if you do
mutilate
rupture
mutilate ( 4CP ) should you use garrot and waste CP in TB ?
tropic ocean
yes
brisk crag
Ok, o if I understand correctly, it should look something like this :
Rupture
Mutilate
Garrote
Vendetta
Toxic Blade
[Blood of the Enemy]
Vanish
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ CP
Envenom```the 5cp envenom inside tb vendetta vanish is worth wasting 1 cp
brisk crag
Otherwise, if my first Mutilate is not 4 CP :
Mutilate
Rupture
Garrote
Mutilate till 4+ CP
Vendetta
Toxic Blade
[Blood of the Enemy]
Vanish
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ CP
Envenom``` ? /:ofc but you still can like envenom at 5CP, mutilate again, Vendetta TB vanish envenom
tropic ocean
because u dont want ur rupture to fall off during ur pump window
@kind steppe u can but its worse afaik
kind steppe
okay
brisk crag
Yeah, second " Mutilate " did not appear in my message. I do not know why.
tropic ocean
yeah these 2 openers are pretty much what u do all the time
there was some debate wheter to mutilate envenom mutilate but I didnt saw any sim or confirmation so just stick with the common ones for now
warm parcel
Theres nothing in apl forcing 5cp env before vanish tho
So all these "oaky to waste cp for env" is just what people do
kind steppe
aight
and
got another question
I got a 465 ( 475 if azerite ) trophy out of my weekly PVP chest but I'm not sure about how to use it the best way I could
I'm a bit lost in this patch cuz I can't play much, so I wanna know what are ur advice
like for example if I shouldn't use it on a head azerite since there is a bis one on Maut ( i think ) or the ingeneer helm, or if It's better on any pvp trinket with socket cuz those in the raid are shit rn
warm parcel
Vanish with Master Assasin: No stealth and no active MA buff, Rupture not in refresh range, during Vendetta+TB, during Blood essenz if available.
actions.cds+=/vanish,if=talent.master_assassin.enabled&!stealthed.all&master_assassin_remains<=0&!dot.rupture.refreshable&dot.garrote.remains>3&debuff.vendetta.up&(!talent.toxic_blade.enabled|debuff.toxic_blade.up)&(!essence.blood_of_the_enemy.major|debuff.blood_of_the_enemy.up)
Which part here forces 5cp?
warm parcel
You just happened to get lucky with mut crit
so ofc its gona do that
wasting on tb* is in the apl
kind steppe
& about the 475 trophy
is the inge helm that good or it's just cuz of the beginning of the patch
tropic ocean
@warm parcel maybe I misunderstand u but from sample ability log raidbots always does mut rup mut garrote vendetta tb bote vanish envenom
or mut mut rup garrote vendetta tb mut bote vanish envenom
if first mut doesnt crit
so if it gets 5 cp before tb it always overcaps
scarlet sequoia
bis pvp head was about 300 dps better than engi head for me
just to give u an idea i guess
kind steppe
aight so cool i won't have to do the ingee helm
and no 365 socket PVP trinket will be more useful than a bis 375 azerite i guess ?
tropic ocean
pretty sure engi helm is easier than getting the pvp helm
scarlet sequoia
nah the pvp trinkets dont rly compete with font/coral or coral/vita
warm parcel
Heres what the bot does when you actually get unlucky
tropic ocean
theres no difference to what I said
warm parcel
And it once again happens to land on 5cp due to mutilate is cast when youre at 3cp
vestal wren
you could try to filter out the "bad cases" by adjusting the condition
tropic ocean
with tb
warm parcel
But if you were at 2 and didnt crit youd end with 4
scarlet sequoia
what if the garrote crits
warm parcel
My point was simply that the bot doesnt make you mutilate at 4cp when youre bout to vanish
You just generally happen to land there due to how assa works
brisk crag
I play with the Blood of the enemy R3 (major), and the Vision of Perfection R4 (minor). So my Vendetta CD is 1m5 instead of 2m, just like BotE. However, my Vanish still has 2m CD.
So my question is : should I wait for my Vanish before making my burst again, or not ?
Taking into account that I play with the Razor Coral.
warm parcel
Sorry if I confused as I jumped in late
tropic ocean
in raid?
warm parcel
doing islands 
tropic ocean
I don't think you use vision minor in raid except maybe nzoth
and for m+ u line vanish with bote coral and 2nd vendetta
(if boss lives long enough for that) but generally yeha u line bote with vendetta and vanish
brisk crag
I mean in raids, yes.
warm parcel
If youre playing fontless, vop can be alright
Like Im currently rocking it in minor for ilgy as it suits the timings better
brisk crag
I saw many rogues playins with BotE and VoP.
rose violet
Most likely using vanish on 1st 3rd 5th .... vendetta
Otherwise the minor wouldn’t make much sense
warm parcel
The minor doesnt make sense if all youre doing is hitting a dummy
brisk crag
Well, I'm playing with ′′ Nothin Personal ′′ x3 so maybe that's why VoP sim higher ?
warm parcel
But when you have other targets and or mechanics in the game
It suddenly can work in an encounter
or 3 np can also do that
brisk crag
Pretty unlucky on azerite gear. /:
tropic ocean
and even if it might be a dps loss it can be still the go to on different encounters
(like in mythic queen everyone was running bote even though it was worse dps than clf)
due to the nature of the fight
warm parcel
or zac and vop
tropic ocean
yeah
brisk crag
So I should save my Vendetta and my BotE for my second Vanish, if I understood correctly ?
faint harness
how do you even play VoP on a patchwerk fight
vanish every 2nd vendetta?
like it makes sense for wrathion because he's flying anyway
but on shadhar, how would you play vop
rigid mango
Wouldn't play vop on shadhar
rigid mango
Whcih ugy
faint harness
Naoya
rigid mango
The only time you do is to fit certain timings and when you do it's normally to meet checks within those timings and hardstack cd's for that exact reason
If you play VoP on shadhar, you literally ignore it.
faint harness
Yea i know when/why you play it, im just curious how one would play vop on a dummie boss
distant lava
WHY ARE WE SCREAMING
faint harness
well thats dumb as shit
faint harness
why even use it
scarlet sequoia
but what if you do
faint harness
so it wouldnt be worth holding vanish for a minute
rigid mango
LIke I told you, to fit a certain windows
rigid mango
This is just an argument about how can I play suboptimally the best
faint harness
theres a lot of NP on the raid gear
rigid mango
I don't get it
faint harness
if i get the stygian helm, i would have 3 np
rigid mango
^
strange python
Zine what would u run? Guardian major iris lucid breath minor?
scarlet sequoia
u dont have 25 corruption or
rigid mango
And yet you'd never use VoP on ST.
faint harness
yes i have like 55 corr after reductions
frigid briar
Also im pretty sure in his sim that his azerite isnt strongest traits picked
faint harness
k-pop
scarlet sequoia
but lets just say you do play vision of perfection
brisk crag
I'm not playing with VoP in major slot though.
scarlet sequoia
how do u use vanish
faint harness
i would delay vanish 1 minute
scarlet sequoia
are you sure?
faint harness
np + van, np, np + van
brisk crag
BotE major, VoP minor.
faint harness
im not sure
scarlet sequoia
i wont believe it
faint harness
im just saying, how i would assume its played
frigid briar
Use vendetta on CD and line vanish up with vendetta when you can. Holding isnt worth
brisk crag
Idk, it just sims higher for me. /:
faint harness
if you dont lose a vanish due to kill time, surely it doesnt matter
rigid mango
Link the sim
scarlet sequoia
but what about if i play vop on shadhar
distant lava
heroic shadhar maybe, but mythic you actually want to kill the boss
frigid briar
I wanna see the traits, because 3xNP being BiS would need to be really specific shite azerite
faint harness
its stygian helm, and the 2 azerites from 2 last
scarlet sequoia
im gonna take a wild guess
scarlet sequoia
and say youre wrong
rigid mango
Yes there is.
brisk crag
If I'm playing with NPx3, that's because I'm pretty unlucky on Azerite gear. I guess. /:
scarlet sequoia
hold your horses
faint harness
s'il vous plait
frigid briar
Dont they azerite have heart of darkness and Double dose? Twist knife?
faint harness
one of them has an option between DD and HoD
scarlet sequoia
your shoulders are shit @brisk crag
brisk crag
What
scarlet sequoia
yes
brisk crag
I simed Heart of Darkness yesterday
scarlet sequoia
ive gone and done it
faint harness
you fixed the VOP!
scarlet sequoia
ok so basically
warm parcel
cause you had less than 25 corr
rigid mango
brisk crag
I actually have 50 corruption. xD
scarlet sequoia
thats okay
warm parcel
you do now
warm parcel
but if hod ever simmed that bad. it was 99% likely you were below 25
faint harness
i should re-sim my Hoods
brisk crag
I had a weapon with 75 Cor before.
When I simed my character with HoD.
Well, nvm I guess. x)
rigid mango
The higher you go the better HoD becomes
crimson palm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ubY5kZrbwzDJtPsxuxgHTe It's still not good enough
Probably only the Mythic HoDs will be BIS
crimson palm
Haha got lucky with the chest 😄
faint harness
yet to see gw on an item
stable isle
yeah i literally havent seen gw drop once yet
warm parcel
unlucky I got it in the one boe slot
so cant even have a chance to buy corr boe ever
warm parcel
yo
pale verge
GW?
rigid mango
Gushing wounds
pale verge
Ooh oke cool
faint harness
i wonder how many mil it would have gone for
faint harness
but we dnot want to make money so we just put it up in RC lootcouncil and handed it out
warm parcel
Was "goblin spec" one of the choises?
strange python
Why are assas playing bote on nzoth rather than guardian /crucible?
faint harness
dude i wish
rigid mango
^
faint harness
i play bote on everything, actually sims the highest too
would consider WV on maut/shadhar
faint harness
what padd, they have to die you know
warm parcel
wv is absolute horse on nzoth
rigid mango
Wdym padding on tentacles
warm parcel
nothing worse than putting down crystals and looking at them 16 yards away from you
cause an add is moving
rigid mango
I never use bote outside of nzoth
rigid mango
huh?
warm parcel
alright
warm parcel
cool
crimson palm
dunno
faint harness
what is rank 1
rigid mango
What if I got a higher log with bote
faint harness
memes if its with bote
rigid mango
🤔