assassination

[crisp hollow]

that bitch was mean

[velvet nacelle]

i don't wanna get stuck in progression raids atm

don't have that kind of free time after the next week or two

[raven mica]

Yea say that when you see your guildies playin outlaw and running around with deadass b spy glasses 40 ilevels higher than your damn heroic font

[velvet nacelle]

dunno how realistic it'll even be for me to get heroic azshara at this point

[raven mica]

Uhhh

She’s face roll now

[velvet nacelle]

gotta find a guild haha

[raven mica]

Your problem will be to find a pug willing to do it

[velvet nacelle]

or pug yeah

[crisp hollow]

heroic now gets completely outgeared and no mechanics matter

heroic azshara on release week

different story

[eager river]

old stuff can still TF so you could try for it on normal too 🙂

[raven mica]

Oh imagine the look on someone’s face when they fuckin see some chump with a normal font that’s like 450

[eager river]

[crisp hollow]

don’t have to imagine tbh the best corals in my guild have been on shitter alts

450 socketed heroic coral on a 420 char we dragged through it type deal

[raven mica]

Oh

At least mine’s a mythic coral

Actually I bonus rolled for the yolo on a reclear and got a 455 coral

After already having the 455 socketed

The tilt in the room was hilarious and I loved every second of it

[velvet nacelle]

hmm, swapping my trinkets for those two is only like a 2k dps increase

did i raidbots wrong? haha

[royal lantern]

2k is quite alot?

[raven mica]

Send sim

[tropic ocean]

only

XD

[raven mica]

For swapping 2 pieces of gear that’s huge

[royal lantern]

some people here would sell their kidney for 2k dps sooo.....

[raven mica]

Probably not used to that small of a gain being huge cuz ya know he sees the corruptions giving 8k increase

[velvet nacelle]

oh absolutely but i feel like i got more choke points in gear before i need to worry about those

[raven mica]

Send sim

[velvet nacelle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/owSD7bfEVg9NZr5qdGJRWE

[rigid mango]

dungeon slice

[velvet nacelle]

oh right, didn't realize i still had it on that

[raven mica]

The big sim.

Also blood without rank 3 is dogshit don’t use it

[velvet nacelle]

probably gonna try to knock rank 3 out in the next few days

[raven mica]

Don’t do that.

Just do your daily epic BG and BG win for now

Worry about the other essences that you might need

[velvet nacelle]

eh i like pvp'ing most of the time

did the 15k in like 3 days

[raven mica]

Yea I couldn’t do that

Well I could but

[rigid mango]

If you want r3 why wouldn't u do it

[velvet nacelle]

also had a pocket healer for most games

pocket druid so it was perfect

[raven mica]

Cuz not burning out is more important than getting bote rank 3 a few days earlier

Especially considering how timegated a lot of the other essences are

OH: @velvet nacelle for vision of perfection queue for heroic mechagon workshop twice.

That’ll get you rank 2.

[velvet nacelle]

i wanna do more higher m+'s but can't get in groups with no raider io score and folks don't seem to generally want rogues

[raven mica]

?????????

Son where you been the whole expac

[velvet nacelle]

i hated bfa at launch

not sure i'm feeling a whole lot different but i have free time atm so giving it another go

[raven mica]

Since like 8.0 there’s been at least one rogue in almost every MDI and high key

[velvet nacelle]

i thought vision of perfection wasn't that great?

[raven mica]

Well it’s good for outlaw.

[velvet nacelle]

yeah i just need one more heroic mechagon for rank 2 vision i think

[raven mica]

Yea visions is super easy

Fucking mobile I can’t check his pieces from the sim

[velvet nacelle]

my gear is literally just the highest ilvl i got for each slot so far

[raven mica]

Was trying to check azerite

I saw a 460 and that’s it

[velvet nacelle]

except my belt that has echoing void

[raven mica]

Oh well

[velvet nacelle]

holding onto a 430 with it instead of a 445 belt

[raven mica]

How much corruption is on it

Like the value

[velvet nacelle]

just 35

but i haven't gotten any other usable corruption pieces yet

[raven mica]

Dis dude got a fucking tier 2 echoing void

And he’s Been playing for a week

[velvet nacelle]

i thought tier 2 was 50 for echoing void?

[raven mica]

If guy hears about this he’s gonna be so fuckin pissed

Isn’t tier 1 like 15

[velvet nacelle]

i saw a 75 echoing void i thought

[raven mica]

Yea it’s 25/35/60

[velvet nacelle]

ahh, sweet

for azerite i got:
head: nothing personal, double dose, heed my call, resounding protection
shoulders: nothing personal, scent of blood, gutripper, resounding protection
chest: double dose, nothing personal, gutripper, longstrider

[tropic ocean]

thats very bad for dungeons

[raven mica]

Is that shoulder sanguine monstrosity?

Yea it’s awful for M+ but like actually kinda disgusting for raid imma be honest

[tropic ocean]

sanguine monstrosity are shoulders

[velvet nacelle]

blood bog vest and yeah, shoulders are sanguine monstrosity

[raven mica]

Unluckerdog

[rigid mango]

The worst piece in recorded history

[raven mica]

T2 echoing void though so

[velvet nacelle]

i've got fastidious machinations, gold-tasseled epaulets and some pvp shoulders in my bags though

[raven mica]

Try to repurpose some azerite into either an M+ set for assassination or an outlaw set

So that you can be more useful in dungeons

[velvet nacelle]

for most of my dungeon groups i've been the sole person on boss dps duty so that's why i went so deep on dd/np

[raven mica]

Yea that’s not how M+ works

When you can play a trait setup like 2x echoing blades, 2x twist the knife, 2x shrouded suffocation and kinda do a bit of everything

[velvet nacelle]

i've been on lower keys with my friends and when i was on outlaw the trash would die almost as fast and the bosses wouldn't at all

and since i haven't gotten into higher keys i've optimized around what i'm playing atm

was thinking of doing an outlaw setup for higher m+

[rigid mango]

Just play 3 eb ss if u wanna play sin

[velvet nacelle]

heh i love "just play" as if i can just will the azerite pieces into my bags

[rigid mango]

I don't either so

[velvet nacelle]

i have one shoulder piece that works for the triple setup heh

hmm, best i could get was: 3x echoing blades, 1 np, 1 dd, 1 ss

i could drop 1x eb and np for another ss and twist

[tropic ocean]

2 ss 2 eb is fine until u have better stuff

[rigid mango]

I'd take literally whatever trait above DD p much

[velvet nacelle]

DD's strong for single target right?

[tropic ocean]

yes

[rigid mango]

Literally useless for aoe

[velvet nacelle]

well yeah not mutilating a lot in aoe heh

fan of knives with EB is fun

[bleak spoke]

man the sim is drunk again

https://i.imgur.com/bRbtry8.png

[rigid mango]

Just

Idk

[bleak spoke]

ever just

vanish muti rupture muti

[rigid mango]

this the shit u post in #tc-research

Try see if anyone can make sense of it

[bleak spoke]

dude the other day i hit sample sequence and it got a 3 point muti on pull

it was not pretty

[rigid mango]

I know

I made a fix for it

But it was never implemented

[velvet nacelle]

heh if nothing else, having an echoing blades gear set is gonna be fun in ashran 😛

assuming i can get a cast off in ashran

[bleak spoke]

man how often does the sim refresh rupture in tb windows

how is this not like

[rigid mango]

That's fine

It's kinda correct to do so.

[velvet nacelle]

i've generally been delaying TB if i have a dot to refresh, is that wrong?

[bleak spoke]

if you lose a cast of tb yesah

if you don't lose a cast of tb no

[velvet nacelle]

oh no it's usually like a second or two

[bleak spoke]

so you have roughly 10 seconds of leeway in a pull

[velvet nacelle]

like "oh garrote is about to go in pandemic range, just wait and refresh THEN tb"

[bleak spoke]

nah you shouldn't do that

just use garrote to bridge at 3 cp

[velvet nacelle]

garrote was a bad example, usually it's rupture but fair enough

[bleak spoke]

that happens when you refresh rupture at 4 points, it gets real weird real fast

[rigid mango]

Refreshing rupt inside is fine

[bleak spoke]

you can kinda "fix" it by trying to refresh rupture at 5 points but ultimately it doens't change much

[rigid mango]

But also doing it outside if all you're doing is wasting 3 sec of pandmic~ it's also fine

[bleak spoke]

just feels better

[velvet nacelle]

i thought i read something about trying to TB with full CP

[rigid mango]

Force fixing

You TB whenever

But pooling cp and energy for it is a minor gain

[bleak spoke]

it's preferable to tb at 3+ cp basically

[rigid mango]

but you cast TB on any CP

Even if you're on 5

[velvet nacelle]

i generally try to have 3ish CP and full energy as TB is coming off CD

[pastel canyon]

Hey guys do u know if Gushing Wound procs our Venomous Wounds ?

[rigid mango]

Ofc it doesn't.

[bleak spoke]

and the 5 cp tb happens when you say, only have the energy for 3 envenoms in 10 seconds lets say

so you just reorder the envenoms to be in tb

rather than doing one at 5 cp and then only getting 2 in tb

so the "lost" cp from tbing at 5 isn't actually impactful

because ultimately you never get more envenoms

[velvet nacelle]

there's been times when i'm at 5cp and tb is coming off cd and i'll overcap energy... those are tough for me but i usually delay for the TB

[bleak spoke]

don't overcap

or try not to

[rigid mango]

Never overcap energy

Big nono

[velvet nacelle]

ok so my instincts about that were right

[bleak spoke]

it's better to starve than to overcap because lucid exists

like, you can hit your buttons as soon as you get them like a monkey but not be punished

because of lucid refund

[velvet nacelle]

in this hypothetical, let's say i have 5cp, tb is coming off cd in 3 seconds and i'm near full energy

[bleak spoke]

can you refresh rupture there

[velvet nacelle]

ok my contrived scenario is getting mor eand more contrived

[rigid mango]

You've missplayed.

[bleak spoke]

^

[velvet nacelle]

when the root of it is yeah, what zine said

[rigid mango]

You should've seen this coming

[bleak spoke]

you should have envenomed a little while ago in this example

[rigid mango]

Sin is all about prep

Forsight

Less about reactionary gameplay more about preemptive gameplay

[bleak spoke]

in that particular situation, you've actually lost an envenom but in the past

and there's nothing you can do to get it back other than get lots of lucid procs basically

[velvet nacelle]

yeah, i was trying to come up with a scenario where that was coming up and it wasn't a misplay

[rigid mango]

There isn't one I don't think.

[raven mica]

This is getting really convoluted imma be honest.

[bleak spoke]

hey zine you want to see my most egregious cast sequence i've had since starting to play the spec

[velvet nacelle]

not realistically/consistently enough to discuss really

[rigid mango]

Ofc.

[bleak spoke]

you're gonna hurt your brain looking at this

https://i.imgur.com/k7JmstY.png

[velvet nacelle]

going back to our earlier conversation about azerite traits: wouldn't i want to be more single target focused on a tyrannical week?

[bleak spoke]

you never take dd in key

[rigid mango]

Fuc

k

[bleak spoke]

the st gain isn't enough to justify the loss

[rigid mango]

WV

[bleak spoke]

want to see the punchline to that screenie zine

[rigid mango]

WV major gamers are insecure change my mind

[bleak spoke]

https://i.imgur.com/baer7e6.png

[bleak spoke]

yeah the kill timer on my hc raden makes me want to neck

3:57

like

is this even real life

[raven mica]

Wait what’s wrong with that cast sequence, didn’t the toxic blade debuff already expire when you ruptured?

[bleak spoke]

lol

i cast worldvein

5 seconds in tb

[raven mica]

Oh I didn’t see the wv

[bleak spoke]

tb lasts 9 seconds

btw

so like

[velvet nacelle]

i didn't recognize the icon, i had to trace to the left to see what that wv cast was heh

[raven mica]

Ya you tb 60 and rup 69

[bleak spoke]

the casts in that were crimsonvial -> env -> muti -> env -> muti -> muti and then i suppose "hurts himself in confusion"

[rigid mango]

Better than

Vend > bote > tb > vanish > dead

I fucked up my shit and died

1.5k MS

[bleak spoke]

LOL

[pastel canyon]

Hey guys do u know if Gushing Wound procs our Venomous Wounds ? (:

[velvet nacelle]

i feel like we just answered that

[rigid mango]

ofc it doesn't.

I told u before

[velvet nacelle]

deja vu

[rigid mango]

Top tip

read what ven wounds does

[pastel canyon]

ik but when u got Internal Bleedings talented, it procs Ven wounds, so why doest gushing wound isnt proking it too

[royal lantern]

its no rogue bleed

[tropic ocean]

cuz it would be insanely op

[royal lantern]

if all bleeds would proc ven wounds

that would be broken as hell

[eager river]

thats only for surv hunters

🙂

[rigid mango]

internal bleeding does

Crimson tempest doesn't

BUT THEY'RE BOTH BLEEDS?!?!?!?!?!

[royal lantern]

we would use ct for st if that would work right?

[rigid mango]

probably

[raven mica]

Ya know

[rigid mango]

Possibly, idk.

[tropic ocean]

If gw procced vw holy

[raven mica]

Why DOESNT CT work with venomous

[tropic ocean]

Take 3 pieces

Always energy

[hazy iron]

If CT procced vw, i wonder if that would make it worth going DS instead of vigor 🤔

[tropic ocean]

maybe

depends on target count too I think

[hazy iron]

True

[tropic ocean]

ppl used ds on orgozoa if I remember correct

When going pad build

I dont think it ever will proc vw though as it would be giga busted in m+

Never rupture in aoe

[velvet nacelle]

thanks for the info chat folks

[rigid mango]

👍

[untold current]

Killed M Wrathion tonight, felt like shit fight for rogue with no way of removing stacks. Anyone have some tips or tricks around that fight?

[royal lantern]

you can cloak and vanish the stacks

[untold current]

oh ya?

[junior flume]

Wait a bit and step to your friends too

[untold current]

Does shadowstep give u a stack?

[remote valley]

If I don't have a good on use trinket, is it fine to use two good regular proc trinkets?

could they proc at the same time or share internal cds?

[royal lantern]

you...use the stuff that is the best for you?

like, sim the trinkets and you know what is actually the best for you

[junior flume]

Don't remember Uchimata

[royal lantern]

its a blink, should not give stacks

[light pebble]

!essences

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd

[faint harness]

pretty sure it gives 1 stack

most of the things give at least 1 stack

[junior flume]

Even if it does, it's one stack vs several while running

[clever dagger]

hey guys, when i have 1x Shrouded suffocation do i spec sutberfuge and Exsanguinate or can i still have toxic blade? question is for raiding content not m+

[drifting cloud]

Exsang sucks. Azerite just sim both talent combos

[fresh folio]

Question about m+
465 ilvl 1 shrouded 1 Heart of Darkness
435 ilvl 1 shrouded 1 echo blades
Is it worth the ilvl over right traits ?

[shut garnet]

at that ilvl difference, nowhere near(so i mean pick highest ilvl piece)

would that 435 piece be your only EB piece though?

[fresh folio]

No, atm i run with
465: 1 shroud 1 Heart of Darkness
435: 1 shroud 1 Echo
460: 1 shroud 1 Nothing Personal

and im thinking if its worth to go into m0s to get the right traits, both the echo build and twist the knife

[heavy forge]

you say "at that ilvl difference" but I've had 30 ilvl downgrades

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[next solar]

Have the ra'den trinket set bonus' been implemented in the sim api yet

[mint kindle]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide/

[mint kindle]

Guide not up-to-date?

[rigid mango]

https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-battle-for-azeroth-raid-dps/

[mint kindle]

Thank you

[heavy forge]

probably more likely that the command isn't up to date

[rigid mango]

There's been scuffed shit happening to the guide so wouldn't be shocked

[winter gale]

Guys, should I sacrfice 3rd DD for BBI ?

Simm says I should for like 0.9% dmg wich is decent

I am just not sure is there something I dont maybe know 😄

[rigid mango]

Why do you have to sacrifice a DD for bbi?

but yeah, if it sims better 👍

[winter gale]

Couse in 1st piece I go from NP to BBI and then in 2nd I remove DD to get that NP back :D, atleast thats how simulation set up my prefferable traits and its 0.9% incrs. I am currently playing 3xDD /Gizmo/NP/Heart of Darkness.

[storm perch]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[tepid ridge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gKkAEWWFEeLfez34mSCC7d

any bug in apl?

blood + subt > blood + ma looks clunky

[vestal wren]

wrong chanel

[tepid ridge]

:p np

[dark crag]

Man the more sims i see, the more i hate corruption

[vestal wren]

some ppl think there are potential for optimization for subtletfuge

corruption is beasically "legendary" forging, its a high impact proc

[dark crag]

Got mindflay and devastation, so stupid inconsistent

I kept up with people with ev or infinite, imagine i got that myself

[tepid ridge]

when to usef bote with subterfuge tho? XD

no idea about what the sim does

[dark crag]

G r g vend tb bote env

[tepid ridge]

same as ma except the vanish order

ok

[dark crag]

Yes

[tepid ridge]

sounds "good"

I mean it's weird but w/e

[dark crag]

You use bote to boost env dmg

[tepid ridge]

yup

[swift lodge]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[tepid ridge]

using bote with subterfuge looks weird that's what I mean :p

[shut garnet]

its what you do in keys if you play assa there

since you run 3ss subt

so becomes pretty chill to do either after a while

[tepid ridge]

yeah but the use of blood with echoing blades makes sense in M+

looks just weird that subt > ma with bote in ST because of almost 100% crit on crit damage buffed window

[dark crag]

Subt is stronger because you have ss traits

[shut garnet]

no, i mean on bosses in m+ LOL

yknow, where you dont benefit from EB because you dont use FoK?

[uneven summit]

How much corruption people playing with?

[tepid ridge]

I don't XD have SS traits

[shut garnet]

39 will probably be most optimal for prog

[dark crag]

And supter sims higher?

[tepid ridge]

yes XD

[dark crag]

Show that sim pls

[shut garnet]

what traits have you got LOL

[tepid ridge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gKkAEWWFEeLfez34mSCC7d

it's weird right? XD

[next solar]

its still showing you have MA?

[tepid ridge]

with WV

not the one with bote

[next solar]

oh i see what youre saying

yeah its weird, i had a high parse on raden with EK SS traits and 0 SS gear, garrote still did a lot of dmg

i think i ended at 63k

[tepid ridge]

I mean it's about bote subt siming high is not a "big" surprise

but with bote it looks so weird and clunky

[next solar]

oh also having a TTK too with envenom and bote

[dark crag]

Force+deadly + gorak and maybe high crit on gear

[next solar]

yeah that would feel awkward

[dark crag]

Looks like you are at a spot that ma would be overkill

[tepid ridge]

yeah it could lower value of MA

with coral aswell

[next solar]

hm, yeah 3xdd + bb + np + SS with sub is almost 1400 dps lower for me

[tepid ridge]

got a low haste gear aswell outside of raden trinket

[next solar]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3YnFazMswVKio1SdnLqFwJ

[tepid ridge]

still 2 coins to use of Nzoth to take blightborn off

[next solar]

its crazy how strong BB still is

im really suprised it hasn't been nerfed more

[true thistle]

!ess

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd

[tepid ridge]

will still pray for gorak tul I guess

[light pebble]

What are the best traits atm for single target sin rogue? Im looking at herodamage and there are some on there ive never seen before like Ancients Bulwark. Apart from "sim yourself" which are generally the best to aim for (eg. 3x DD, 1x NP, etc).

[dark crag]

Dd np the crit ones

Heart of darkness with +25 cor

[timber meadow]

man i know this be some feelycraft but I def feel like mindlfayy pumps harder than the sim is giving it credit for

[high nacelle]

is there a sheet with Nya azerite pieces going around?

[shy axle]

i read hc last 3 bosses, myth maut helmet and vex chest on your way to the last bosses (without possible resi-pieves you might buy)

[high nacelle]

yeh can look them all up but usually someone does a nice job putting every piece on a spreadsheet or something, with each possible trait

[mint kindle]

Is there a list of bis trinkets for 8.3, or not yet?

[arctic walrus]

It would be as accurate as an 8.2 list

[rigid mango]

Font coral my dude

[shy axle]

does inkpod sim correctly again or still over/undervalued?

[crude topaz]

Hey Guys,

Can anybody help me improve my parses please? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/J1axFARzgvYQjXfn/#fight=6&type=damage-done&source=9

According to wow analyser i wasted 26 combo points due to 'Seal Fate', does this mean i should potentially drop a DD or something, as i never Mut on 4 combo points?

Also, if i pool energy for TB, but i end up with 5 combo points, should i TB > EnV so i can get more into TB or EnV > TB ?

and help greatly appreciated.

[rigid mango]

No seal fate is just natural waste that happens for everyone

[mint kindle]

Wait, so no new trinket is good at same ilvl?

[rigid mango]

You did waste one from mut, which is bad

And yes, if you're at 5 CP it's fine to TB on max CP.

[timber meadow]

Has anyone done any sort of manual comparison between flay's dmg in-game and what they're seeing in sims?

[tropic ocean]

@mint kindle 460 haste trinket outsim 435 font for me so just sim it depending on ur font ilvl

@timber meadow you cant really compare it unless u do ur rotation on something for 10million times

XD

but yeah tentacle is big rng

[crude topaz]

Ok thanks @rigid mango - Anything else jumping out to you?

[timber meadow]

ugh yeah like i trust sims most the time but i got this feeling like tentacle doin bigger dam in-game than sim

but def some big rng with it

so i guess /shrug

[tropic ocean]

its just more rngish

like sim shows the avg dmg but i think u can still check upper parses and lower parses iterations

in fh on my dh yesterday first boss my tentacle did 150k ish dmg

on shark somehow 450kish cuz good procs

🤷

[timber meadow]

yeah it def fluctuates that's true

honestly though, for where resistance is at right now

I dont thinkt here's any possible better combination of corruption than double tier 2 ev pieces

[tropic ocean]

did u see raden log of rise?

[rigid mango]

@crude topaz dunno why you waited with blood

[tropic ocean]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/--f8P9DdWGfi_iLTd47jWHtXclNa6MCQD7hXI-K5JWc/https/image.prntscr.com/image/KEWxsnuMQHOus_vMc-Z6Zw.png?width=1052&height=358

[rigid mango]

And your TB should be post vend, vanish and bote

[tropic ocean]

@timber meadow this how rng tentacle is

[timber meadow]

LMFAO

[shy axle]

@tropic ocean 460 haste trinket outwims font + 445 ink for me as well

[rigid mango]

Opener there after your garrote should be vend > tb > bote > vanish @crude topaz

[tropic ocean]

@shy axle try to get coral for me its by far strongest trinket (445) but yeah in combo with haste as I dont have high ilvl font

[shy axle]

i got coral in the 2nd slot

[tropic ocean]

mythic ashvane should be super puggable 1phase with all that corruption dps mafia

[shy axle]

used to use inkpod but well lets try the raden one

[timber meadow]

with the early azerite with the ttk slots, envenum is pumping some massive dmg

[tropic ocean]

just desperately need to coin carapace dagger next reset 😢

[crude topaz]

@rigid mango ok, noted!!

I was trying to extend the time i have increased Crit chance. after the master assassin.

[timber meadow]

@tropic ocean imagine getting a socketed carapace dagger and not being able to use it

mandatory sub 40 corruption and there's no better combo than just 2 tier 2 ev pieces at that low of corruption

so dagger sits in the bag

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[unborn barn]

!wa

[tropic ocean]

well with 2x ev and dagger i'll have 63

but not using dagger is hard int

like

[rigid mango]

Essentially you just blast everything inside that window, especially because of the initial crit damage increase after using blood @crude topaz

[tropic ocean]

@timber meadow https://prnt.sc/qwh8f4

its just giga

[timber meadow]

yeah with dagger im at like 73 lol

er 72

[tropic ocean]

lemme check with wv

[timber meadow]

oddly enough worldvein has stopped simming higher than me

has me putting it as minor now

[tropic ocean]

yeah with wv major 72,5

oh wait even higher i forgot I can craft helm next week

73,974 actually

[timber meadow]

74 with the helm?

that's big af

[tropic ocean]

yeah I was pretty lucky

[crude topaz]

Thanks for the advice @rigid mango - Ill try this out tonight.

[timber meadow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aYKvdqUrHU4C7eZrPjgCT9

[tropic ocean]

got 475 chest 475 shoulder

2x t2 echoing

[timber meadow]

yeah my sim went down by about 2k cuase i cleansed my main hand

[tropic ocean]

just need the dagger

oh and I got 460 socketed weapon to put in offhand once I got dagger

[timber meadow]

had the corruption that adds 12% crit

which was huge

but just like had too much corruption and had to do something

[tropic ocean]

yeah I could equip more stuff

but too much corruption

I got several twilight bastion as well

basically just farming for gushing wound now 1x cuz little corruption for big dps

[timber meadow]

gushying would be real big

[tropic ocean]

but yeah once I reach the relevant bosses

cloak will be good enough to run 2x ev + dagger

[timber meadow]

yeah we're doin hivemind first which is nice cause we only raid 2x/week so gives me another weeek to build resistance for my assa build

but idk 68 corruption is insane lol

[tropic ocean]

11 cloak+breath minor will be 53 corruption

very doable by the time im sure

[timber meadow]

53 is fine

over 60 gets rough lol

[tropic ocean]

just gotta find or create a weak aura that notifies when thing procs

so u can blind run cloak w/e and gucci

[timber meadow]

it's the slows man

[tropic ocean]

i dont really have big issue with slows somehow

[timber meadow]

not even the duders

[tropic ocean]

healers big dispellers

https://prnt.sc/qwhcdq

they dont leave me hanging ❤️

[timber meadow]

I need to get me some of that

[tropic ocean]

I mean its only terrible at some points at many points I dont even care cuz not moving

[timber meadow]

just joined new guild so dont have the healer connection yet lol

[tropic ocean]

and for emergency u still have cloak

[timber meadow]

so you been running over 60 corruption

[tropic ocean]

no

60 corruption is root or close to root

slow is from 1 corruption

or was the root 80

i cant remember

[timber meadow]

gotcha ya if I was more comfortable with this squad id try over 60 but im new/trial and dont wanna fuck around with that stuff

[tropic ocean]

but yeah when I ran 93 corruption to pad logs I couldnt move unless dispelled/cloaked when it procced

dunno if its just 90%+ slow or actual root

[timber meadow]

lolll

93 corruption lets go

but for the short-term i get to focus on outlaw a little which is fun

[shy axle]

red glow gang

[timber meadow]

nice having some solid bosses to switch specs for

i like that

keeps things interesting for prog

[buoyant kraken]

Question: Are APIs broken right now?https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uHNHtCB1iSP2DMsn6dSFMh

Breath is simming highest for me atm, and it does detection in the ability log

[rigid mango]

No and no

Detection is because it procs EV

The more EV procs the more damage it does

it was a like, 1.5k dps increase or something? if all your "dead GCD's" which sin has a fuckton of, are detection instead.

[timber meadow]

wait does detection still proc ev?

[rigid mango]

Yes.

Anything does

[timber meadow]

i thought it had to be on gcd to proc it that's dope

[rigid mango]

Sprint step blind vial all have a chance to

It is on the gcd?

Detection spam is just gcd locking

[timber meadow]

like bleeds wont proc it

but used to i think

[open mural]

The use of the bleed ability will, the ticks never did

[timber meadow]

oh okay, i thought the ticks used to

[open mural]

It procs off ability use, its why ev does so much for dh and outlaw in keys, high apms

[timber meadow]

gotcha, so ideally when pooling etc. we should be spamming detection

w/ ev traits equipped

[open mural]

👌

[timber meadow]

just to bring up that apm

[dusky moon]

Looking at this I wonder is someone messed up the sims or something

https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-stacks/ds-t25-assassination

ancient bulwark being top azerite power for 1t? what?

[tropic ocean]

well not only apm @timber meadow its valuable dps increase to gain stacks when u cant do anything else

[timber meadow]

yeah that's basically what i was implying makes sense

higher apm w/ ev = dps increase

[stoic violet]

So this is kinda off-topic, just a rant. But I've been maining outlaw for like, the last 2 patches. Wanted to swap over to sin for this raid tier. But for the life of me, I CAN't find daggers. I've been farming TD for like 2 months, and junkyard since it opened in M+, like maybe 6 runs a day, been loot specced to sin for the past 4 months, haven't had a single dagger drop. Been running the entire nyalotha raid specced into sin. Not one drop lmao. I've just been running a 410 and 415 I've had in my bags since like 8.1. Total bummer.

[timber meadow]

hm I wonder if that impacts how I should be pooling - like all else being equal, with EV, that period of pooling is worth more now than it was before

[tropic ocean]

occasional theres world quest that rewards weapon when u complete 4

in the cache be on the lookout for it

[timber meadow]

since you can actively gain dps during that "downtime" now

[tropic ocean]

yeah u just spam detection while pooling

[stoic violet]

Yeah I've been doing every emissary for the past like 3 months as well 😢

[timber meadow]

ye which makes pooling worth more, so I wonder if that changes anything as far as when to pool or how long

[tropic ocean]

@stoic violet but u shouldve gotten a weapon from it than when specced loot into assassination

I got 2 445 daggers from emissary since 8.3

zoccaloostabber and some other shit

[stoic violet]

Every time I get an emissary for loot, its a "piece of armor or weapon for your spec" and it's been armor for me every time

And I, like a dummy, decided to go for the mace for the first conquest reward this patch because it was a huge upgrade for me for outlaw, and I figured I would have gotten more daggers by now lol

[tropic ocean]

think you've missed the weapon cache unless im completely dumb atm theres weapon exclusive emissary and there was at least 1 since 8.3

[stoic violet]

haha I def dont think you're dumb, but maybe lucky. Unless you're in EU or something. In NA I haven't seen any weapon exclusive WQ emissaries

Unless I'm dumb and somehow missed it, but I've been on almost every day since 8.3 dropped, havent missed an emissary

[royal torrent]

first conquest cap is a ~440 wep

[stoic violet]

Yeah I did that, but got it for outlaw because I was farming M+ and needed the upgrade to do a 15 -_-

[tepid ridge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oakFbuuLRLECoRvFhenUw8

do we play focused resolve now? oO

[rigid mango]

If it sims better I guess

It's been cataching up for some people for some reason

[tepid ridge]

does it break stealth? (for prepull)

I don't remember

[tropic ocean]

@stoic violet yeah im in eu, might be the case

well best of luck to you to get a weapon soon

[stoic violet]

Thanks man! Just gonna keep spamming junkyard and TD 11s lol

[tepid ridge]

spam 14 mate :p

GLGL

[stoic violet]

Haha True, I just do 11s to save time. I do my 15 weekly and spam 11s. But 13+ usually means I'll be in there for an hour+ if I'm pugging

[outer acorn]

if i have 1 SS and 2 DD on my gear should i be playing subterfuge or master assassin?

[subtle tundra]

[outer acorn]

[deft vault]

Does anyone have a BiS list?

[shut pasture]

how good are muti rogues on shadhar

[honest plaza]

anyone know Worstplayer's twitch?

of method

thanks man

[austere spoke]

i dunno if its ok to post twitch stuff

so click i can remove

lol

npnp

[rigid mango]

@deft vault those aren't really a thing

@shut pasture ST = good

[deft vault]

Well any reason why mastery replaced crit as our top stat with haste?

[rigid mango]

Because it wanted more mastery at that time

There's not a static "best stat"

It changes often.

[honest basin]

How accurate are the sims ? I had my raid gear equiped for ST? with roughly the same stats and gear than some of the top rogues, no SS trait and somehow if I sim with Subterfuge I get slightly more damage than if I sim with MA ...

[rigid mango]

yes, because sub outsims MA

because it outscales it

But the diff is very small, and honestly can just be within margin error and you missing 3 random crits might be a bigger deal than that.

@deft vault for me crit vers is by far the best :^)

Can't say I agree with mast being BiS stat

[heavy forge]

depends on gear, dunnit

[rigid mango]

It do.

[wet zealot]

is galecallers boon and coral even usable together ?

[rigid mango]

No

GCB sucks ass.

Coral is insane.

[heavy forge]

used to sim really well tbh

[deft vault]

My mastery sims at like 7 while the other 3 are at 5

[rigid mango]

In season 1

Link your sim?

[wet zealot]

back to font then

[rigid mango]

Just sim it man

It should be really hard for GCB to win over font

aslong as ur font isn't giga dogshit

[heavy forge]

mastery is bottom for me as well

[rigid mango]

Was highest before I equipped GW

Well, atleast it wanted it.

[deft vault]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ssEzTiZCQVo7BfGMwSKA6b

[wet zealot]

yeah 465 GCb doesnt sim better then 430 font

[rigid mango]

You do realise mast is still really close to haste

and like, get 1 impactful piece and it might just flip it

[tropic ocean]

Once u get good corruptions your vers and haste will rise a lot @deft vault

[oblique sundial]

what is g1 g2 g3 r1 on the fixed opener? 😦

[deft vault]

I've had such shit luck with corruption

Garrot 1 2 3 rupture 1

[oblique sundial]

oh tyty

[rigid mango]

garrote and rupture

[oblique sundial]

got it

[tropic ocean]

Mastery was top for me as well

Once i got ev versa suddenly top by far

[wide delta]

can crafted items corrupt?

[rigid mango]

No

[wide delta]

thx

[wide badge]

can someone explain to me how is it possible for subterfuge to sim better than MA without any SS traits?

[tropic ocean]

The higher gear and stats go the more the % dmg increase will get stronger

Compared to flat crit

crit naturally has diminishing returns the more you increase it as well

[wide badge]

even with Bote subterfuge sims higher

[rigid mango]

You have the worst scaling stat vs something % based that scales with all your stats

[wide badge]

i see so without SS how do u open?

with subterfuge i mean

[rigid mango]

gar > mut > rup

[wide badge]

so u dont to use the pandemic effect on first garrote

or u do it with ur first vanish?

[rigid mango]

Honestly the no SS subt apl is so jank it's insane

I expect subt to actually be a fair bit better than it seems in sims just because of flaws

And honestly, I don't really know how to play it that well

Just vanish after it drops and vanish again w 2nd vend

[tropic ocean]

maybe at the end of the tier subt will be ahead a good margin

[rigid mango]

I think it realistically probably already is

[tropic ocean]

And with current pieces might be able to use 1 ss and drop 1 np

[rigid mango]

But it's so fucking shit.

[tropic ocean]

And then it will be better anyway

[wide badge]

tbh when i use the essence combo that sims higher the difference between subt and ma is only 250 damage

[rigid mango]

Nah, subt is good by itself

SS isn't,

[wide badge]

so i use MA just because im used to it

[rigid mango]

250 is quite a lot tho tbf,

[tropic ocean]

250 dps even at current levels is much dude

😂

[rigid mango]

Most of the time I see 100-150 diff with a sim variance of ~75 or so

So it's just kinda whatever.

[wide badge]

also still fucking CLF major sims higher

i lost track of what makes sense

[tropic ocean]

theres no sense

2542325 corruptions

once u get closer to bis stuff your things will normalize and be similar to other rogues

[wide badge]

yeah i have ech.void II and ineffable truth II

[tropic ocean]

that might already be the answer

A corruption that reduces ur cds

[wide badge]

i wanna cleanse it so bad

but it sims like 500dps

[tropic ocean]

i wouldnt cleanse anything just yet

Who knows what blizz will do or change

Might end up running 3np vision and ineffable truth corruptions

[wide badge]

yeah i also see a lot of people using breath

[tropic ocean]

breath is giga on r3

[wide badge]

so i suppose they use it mostly for the corr reduction

[tropic ocean]

But atm mostly for corruption

Its not too much behind iris as well

[wide badge]

i use like clf major wv,lucid,CnS minors

in raid environment

[tropic ocean]

Yeah

Depending on fight i use

Wv/bote major lucid iris conflict minor

wv minor is good as well if ppl in raid use it

[wide badge]

yes i have at least 3-10 people in raid using it

[tropic ocean]

Then you should sim major as well

Its very good in many fights due to little movement

[wide badge]

yes i simmed it major too

its like 100dps behind clf

[tropic ocean]

oh weird

Its r3?

(And did u tick how many allies use it)

[wide badge]

yes its r3

with 3 allies

http://prntscr.com/qwizla

the equipped is clf,wv,cns,lucid

[tropic ocean]

weird

[wide badge]

yes i dont get it too

and i prefer a 1min or a 2min major to line up with my cds

than play clf

[hushed maple]

sin or Outlaw for Vex?

[rigid mango]

Either or

[shrewd iron]

First raidbots tell me to use HoD but now it's showing me to go NP for some reason :S

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mnLQcaJC4TTZcAcbHUoJkg

Can someone please take a look at the sim, I must've done something wrong

[civic palm]

whoCares

This is a very minor change in potential DPS.

[shrewd iron]

for some reason I care

I wanna pump as much as possible

[civic palm]

Then cheese harder.

[unborn pendant]

So I guess Razor Coral is still BiS?

[civic palm]

The thing with the SIM is that those outputs might as well be +/- 0.0%

[rigid mango]

y

[void narwhal]

@shrewd iron looks like you have 18 corruption instead of the 25 HoD requires

[maiden raptor]

For someone who hasn't played since Uldir should the razor coral and the font trinket from eternal palace still be the prio trinkets to get? Or are there any that are better with the new raid? I haven't found anything on that but i was wondering if it's more like a "If you have them keep using them".

[rigid mango]

They're the best still

Font can lose to shit like really high ilvl socketed dice/spyglass/presumably vita too

But that assumes you high roll shit out of your chest

[maiden raptor]

Allright. Thanks for the awnser

[hushed maple]

what about Gale?

[rigid mango]

GCB?

[hushed maple]

yeah

[rigid mango]

Unusable with coral.

[hushed maple]

fck coral man

why aint it nerfed

😭

[rigid mango]

Nothing replaces coral

some things can replace font

but idk if anything can replace 455 socketed font tbh

[smoky inlet]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fAU5jrXF5P1KQTLySEdK1M besides essences, what is holding my dps back? and how much are my essences effecting my dps?

[harsh sphinx]

those trinkets

[rigid mango]

Trinkets azerite corruption

Your uhh, gear in general ig.

[smoky inlet]

yeah, the trinkets dont come as a surprise

[unborn pendant]

Is a 430 Razor Coral still BiS?

[rigid mango]

Probably.

Very close to, either way

[smoky inlet]

so besides coral, what are the best trinkets to go for?

[rigid mango]

font

vita

[fading wigeon]

@smoky inlet haha yeah I'm in your boat..I'm still running eternal palace trying to get my hands on both font and coral

[mossy sable]

Man I wish I did 49k dps

[smoky inlet]

i just spent the entire tier killing assvane 5 times a week trying to get coral on my warrior, and finally got it right before 8.3 dropped, and now i have to do it again

[mossy sable]

I need to work on my playstyle because I seem to be that one person who sucks at the easier of the rogue specs

[rugged onyx]

What are the best corruption bonuses to get?

[rigid mango]

If only someone had made a pin for that

🤔 🤔

[rugged onyx]

Oh

Sorry 😩

[tender folio]

I have a question about essences for myth+ , which to roll with ?

[mossy sable]

In pin

[bright tusk]

yo when will my 460 +socket vita trinket be better than frickin 445 coral in 8.3? why 8.2 trinkets so strong..

[mossy sable]

What is your other trinket?

[civic palm]

Will be better once Crit is worse.

[mossy sable]

Might be a weird question but if I send the raid log from my guilds last normal raid could I get some tips on how to improve myself?

[civic palm]

Someone might take you up on it, make sure that you have questions that you want/need answered and a log that will show someone that is looking over them why you would have those questions.

The more vague you are the more vague the answers will be so long there isn't anything very wrong that you are doi ng.

[bright tusk]

@mossy sable vita-charged from Ra-den

[mossy sable]

Well I mean... I was getting like 27k dps on average

On Sin, I swapped to Law twice during the raid and only did 14k and 17k

[mint kindle]

Where can I see the AoE MM build please?

[ionic arrow]

why is there no azerite peace with EB in raid? hahaha

[vast forum]

none with EB/SoB in raid

it's the same for all specs

2 traits are missing on all pieces

no replicating or perforate for sub

no paradise lost and snake eyes for outlaw

[ionic arrow]

how do you get you EB peaces? emissary and m+ vendor? do you gamble or buy specific hc

[civic palm]

By doing the content where you would want those traits :3

[ionic arrow]

like I said m+ vendor?

[main blaze]

So vision + 3x NP seems strong

[rigid mango]

No it doesn't

[hushed maple]

Zine there isnt a way to get my shit logged after kill, right?

I pugged vex and that would be a nice log I feel like

[tropic ocean]

if u combatlogged the fight

u can upload it to wcl

otherwise, if someone else didnt log no

theres also an option in exorsus raidtools to automatically combatlog when entering a raid

[hushed maple]

oh okay

[rough agate]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dPWmLRhKn5CFLK1iKrB4D6 so do i do what the sample log says and sit on vanish for the next "used on cd" tb?

[hushed maple]

well last time I tried to log my PC wanted to kill me

[tropic ocean]

yes

you always want to vanish within vendetta and tb

[rough agate]

ok ty

[tropic ocean]

ah nvm

[lean path]

Master Poisoner or Elaborate planning for pve/pvp?

[mossy sable]

Planning

I have never gotten poisoner to work well

[drifting cloud]

you play poisoner in pvp

[lean path]

So Elaborate planning for pve content, and master poisoner for pvp?

[drifting cloud]

maybe its like 50:50 for pvp

but in pve its always planning

[arctic walrus]

it's more like

95-98 pvp

[drifting cloud]

wait what

[lean path]

I didnt get that either.

[rigid mango]

Mp always seems like the play for pvp afaik

[arctic walrus]

unless you're playing some burst comp like maybe sin fire and need dmg

20% extra effectiveness of wound and crippling goes a long way

[lean path]

Well, I dont really do arena.

This is for world pvp or rated bg's.

[drifting cloud]

oh you meant 95-98% for mp

[mossy sable]

PvEvP content?

[turbid osprey]

is there any point hitting synapses on nzoth?

feels like they die way too fast

[tropic ocean]

@timber meadow my sin gameplay just improved significantly

https://prnt.sc/qwl2i1

[mossy sable]

Detection?

[tropic ocean]

yeah

u can buy it from npc in hall of shadows

and just spam it when u pool or move/cant attack to stack echoing void

[mossy sable]

Wait really, it has a real use now

[tropic ocean]

yeah

it also does this

https://prnt.sc/qwl3mq

XD

[drifting cloud]

sick boss dmg

[mossy sable]

So during downtime I should use it to build up echoing void

[turbid osprey]

does it work out of combat?

[mossy sable]

No

You have to enter combat, then use it it seems

[rigid mango]

Psychus damage

[mossy sable]

So what kind of questions do you ask if you want to improve at Sin?

When showing someone your logs

[rigid mango]

rotation, opener, overcapping mut, tb usage

etc

[mossy sable]

hmm ok

I had an average of 25 dps

So I know I am doing something wrong for sure

[rigid mango]

For sure.

[arctic walrus]

huge numbers for classic

[stable isle]

when you get the carapace dagger and its not an upgrade over swapping out 420 EV boots for 470 crafted boots https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/395NAKosh3WDEUGfZPrmG3

[tropic ocean]

wear both

😛

[stable isle]

i am not messing with that thing from beyond lmao

also having 45% crit is fun

highly recommend

[tropic ocean]

its not as worse as it seems, but yeah for progression probably dont wanna have it

[dark crag]

Mindflay is insane vs players and unreliable in raids

[stable isle]

yeah i saw what zine posted in tc-research. might try it on hc reclear next week

[dark crag]

Helped 2 guildmates getting servant of nzoth. Mindflay solo'd people

Need a second dagger from wrathion to replace carapace dagger if i get better corruption pieces, but other rogue got no daggers at all

[distant lava]

idk thing from beyond is playable on prog I'd say

I played it all night on hivemind and shadhar

even had cascading on hivemind

[mighty elm]

I used cascading aswell, that shit was a mistake imo

Never been smacked around so hard in my life

[distant lava]

Was ok for hivemind

[rigid mango]

I think if ur under 50 it's fine

[cobalt pelican]

i'm coming to the conclusion that if the slow isn't randomly going to kill you because you can't move you can basically do whatever you want on non healing intense fights

[mellow harness]

I don't fully understand the rogue's statistics

On assa unitarget crit haste?

In simulation its mastery best

[drifting cloud]

all secondaries are good for asa

just depends on your gear

crit haste on st was never a thing

[mellow harness]

454 equiped and 461 in bag

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3B7FaWegxHorTut6LcEnqF

[subtle tundra]

yikes kul tiran cannon

[mellow harness]

bad trinket, not much is activated

[subtle tundra]

and SS without subterfuge? im pretty sure that chest has heart of darkness

[rigid mango]

SS without subt is fine.

[drifting cloud]

he doesnt have corr to activate it

[subtle tundra]

but hod should sim higher, right?

oh, mb

[rigid mango]

or wait, SS without subt isn't fine

Subt without SS is.

[subtle tundra]

take off your cloak

@mellow harness have you tried simming subterfuge?

[mellow harness]

Nope

[subtle tundra]

you should try

[mellow harness]

I just want to do the maximum dps in band leaders and I don't understand what statistics to go to

[rigid mango]

the ones that sim the best.

Are you using google translate?

[mellow harness]

Yes sorry

[drifting cloud]

@mellow harness https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qabfjHzYpfJDYqGzgaksQz

just get another corr item so you can activate 25 trait

[tacit pebble]

never simmed it before and subterfuge is an extra 500 dps

[tropic surge]

!trinket

[agile oar]

Hey guys what addons and weakauras do you recommend for mythic+

[full sandal]

!azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o

[full sandal]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[candid phoenix]

out of curiousity guys. with MA is opening M-E-M-G-M-R correct or i should apply the bleeds earlier?

[vast forum]

the standard opener is m-r-m

but i use m-e-m-g-r on bosses where you use hero on pull

and though it hasn't been properly simmed, it's almost certainly a minor gain

[drifting cloud]

what if the first one is 3

surely you dont envenom then

[vast forum]

no

only if 4 CP

if 3cp then m-m-r

[candid phoenix]

wel i have 31 crit by default so the 1st M is gonna double crit most of the times

[vast forum]

most, yes, not always tho 😄

[candid phoenix]

ye true, but using E in 3cps to get the early poison buff might not be a dps loss

i cant sim it properly

[dark crag]

What do you do after rupture when the next muts are no crits?

[vast forum]

another mut

the 50% bonus envenom crit + bonus poison procs + bonus DD proc on 2nd muti with 50% increased crit chance is worth the small chance to have to mut again before TBing

i mean

if you don't like the RNG, go for M-E-M-R-G-mut-vend-tb and you have 4+

but also, if you get lucky and get a 2nd 4CP muti and then a 5CP rupture, you don't have to reapply rupture inside vendetta

my last global in vendetta is usually an envenom which you absolutely can't do if you do M-R-M

obviously, differences in opener probably can't net you more than a few hundred dps over a fight

[dark crag]

With cp generation tied to crits you can

[vast forum]

you can't because you have to reapply rupture during vend

[candid phoenix]

with BL on pull i think M E M G R V.... must be the highest dps output

[vast forum]

with M-E-M opener you spend 0 CPs on rupture in vendetta

[candid phoenix]

w/o BL i m not sure

[vast forum]

i'm 99.99% sure it is, i really don't see a downside to it

without bl i'm not sure either 😄

[candid phoenix]

thing is i only changed to MA this tier. i loved the subt playstyle but now MA sims more than 600 dps higher than subt so i have to change 😛

[tropic surge]

is poison bomb better than CT in m+ now?

[vast forum]

no

only in tyrannical KR, ToS and SoB

[loud silo]

wait hold on so if you're doing m e m opener do you not rupture until youve popped vendetta then tb and vanish?

[cobalt pelican]

you just rupture outside ma before vend

[vast forum]

M-E-M-G-R-M-CLF/WV (if used)-vend-(bote if used)-TB-vanish-env-mut-env/mut depending on CD

[loud silo]

ty ty

I'll give it a go

[vast forum]

i suggest only doing that if 1st M is 4cp tho 🙂

[cobalt pelican]

don't really think i'd ever bother with it, pushing tb back a few globals for potentially like 50 dps gain is just whatever

[vast forum]

TB is 1 global back

[cobalt pelican]

unless it's shown to be more

[vast forum]

and you get an additional envenom in vendetta

but i agree, the difference isn't big enough to bother

i do it because i'm used to it at this point

[loud silo]

its just new and id like to try it is all

well maybe not new but it is to me

[vast forum]

also only do it if BL on pull 😄

[cobalt pelican]

i'd be interested in what the actual gain is cause i have no idea from in my head, ma envenom for tick of rupture damage (energy kinda useless at this point) and single vend covered non tb envenom

[vast forum]

also more poison procs before first TB

also 2nd mut high DD proc chance

and that DD also has 50% increased crit chance

and when you count it all in it's still probably not a lot over the course of a 5 min fight

but i'm having a hard time believing it can be a loss

[loud silo]

so if you dont get 4 cp on first M dont bother?

[vast forum]

yea

[cobalt pelican]

mm yea i think so too but meh

[vast forum]

if 2-3 CP, just mut again and rupture

[loud silo]

aight thats fair

[vast forum]

cuz if you use env as 3rd global in MA, you are likely to need 2 more for rupture

• you still need garrote

[loud silo]

also are sims still a bit bugged with trinkets? because surely a 460 socketed vita is better than a 430 font

[vast forum]

or so you'd think

[drifting cloud]

its not

[loud silo]

thats depresso

[vast forum]

the 1 redeeming thing about vita

is that a lot of fights in ny'alotha have really weird timings for playing font+coral so you might as well just run vita+coral

or font+vita

also at 475 it will likely just be better 😄

[halcyon zealot]

engi helm > JC and/or LW?

[timber meadow]

You would actually consider not running coral in raid?

font I can kinda see but coral just seems way too big

[drifting cloud]

its because of fight design its not that good on few bosses

or just straight up doesnt work as it should

[vast forum]

font has a REALLY hard time stacking on wrathion

and skitra

though those 2 bosses kinda don't matter anyway

but quite a few bosses in this raid require you to desync your coral from vend or just have low stacks for it

obviously, it's always gonna sim amazingly well on a 5 min ST fight but that's the nature of the trinket

[cobalt pelican]

corals kinda whacky this tier

doesn't really owrk very well on ilgy or drest either

[vast forum]

yea

there are good uses for it tho

i think on ilgy it might be good, stack it on an organ then it pops automatically for boss

[cobalt pelican]

maybe, not sure

organ windows are really short in general

even on mythic

like you don't get long enough to pull for anything besides a tb on boss and the organs don't live long enough to really get big value for the free buff

might be okay still will have to wait till i get there to test which might be in 72 months

[dark crag]

In 72 months you do nzoth solo

While fighting the ashen legion, commanded by illidan who is possessed by sargeras

[velvet nacelle]

so i took some advice in here and put together an echoing blade build for m+s (instead of my dd/np build)

echoing blade is fun but we were not pulling big enough with bursting and necrotic on to really take advantage of it

[dark crag]

Go ss

3ss is perfect for small pulls

As assa in m+ you need a mix of eb and ss traits

More eb for larger pulls, ss for smaller pulls

[near magnet]

hello guys , I have to ask some questions. My envenoms feel weak when my cds are not up . I mean a 4-5 combo point Envenom deals about 23-25k on average . Also how much energy do you pull before casting Toxic blade and Envenoms in general? And lastly how do you manage to keep Elaborate planning up most of the time ? Here's my raid bots simulation : https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5NebmERKrBkNBqqLHykyLR Y.S Potion of Focused resolve or Unbridled fury in the opener?

[still sky]

I’m trying to wrap my head around why a socketed 465 galecaller’s sims and performs worse than a non-socketed 450 deadeye spyglass

[subtle tundra]

what's your other trink

[still sky]

Coral

[subtle tundra]

that's why

you can't have both coral and galecaller active at the same time

[still sky]

Oh well shit

That answers that

[grave elk]

does anyone use macro to target an ally for shadow step? im seeing a lot of times in raid it would be great to quick target an ally

[mossy sable]

@tropic ocean Thanks for the suggestion for how to get more from EV

This was on Law, but I also run it with Sin now

@grave elk No, I have mine prioritize mouseover then target
(I am sure other people do, I just like it like this)

[grave elk]

@mossy sable what did you start to do to get EV more effective?

[arctic walrus]

Detection spam in your free globals

[grave elk]

Oh lord I have no clue what key to put that on without it being awk and far off lol

[rigid island]

Is it possible to pool ev stacks with detection pre-pull?

[arctic walrus]

No they reset

And you can’t stack out of combat

[grave elk]

so after a TB window i am usually pretty starved and just trying to reapply my bleeds. what number do you guys try to pool to outside of dmg windows? i just always spend so damn much that it feels like shit all the time

[oak tangle]

I try and save TB for after i reapply bleeds, as you are just wasting time

[rigid mango]

You don't save TB (:

[oak tangle]

im not tslking more than 3 seconds. but holding that 2 seconds lets you hit more envenoms

[rigid mango]

And doing that repeatidly will lose more damage than it gains granted the fight is long enough

And is a small gain

A bad habit and generally avoidable through better planning.

[oak tangle]

hmm ok, in regards to the master assassin taking over from ss + subterfuge for raids. is it appropriate to macro vendetta and vanish together?

[opal minnow]

not really

you'd be better served tb'ing after vendetta

assuming the have enough cp

[maiden raptor]

Is it possible for Posin Bomb to surpass Crimson Tempest in terms of dps gain in m+ for aoe situations? The guide says that the setup for multi target can vary based on the keystone in question but i'm trying to figure out if i should get used to using crimson tempest for m+ or not. It probably is a thing about the stats?

And even if it's better how does one account for possible PB proccs on single target to really know what gives the most value

[real bay]

you're not proccing much PB in aoe due to mostly spamming fok

[maiden raptor]

i mean you do spread your bleeds and envenom on max cp. So it does procc okaish atleast that's my exp so far. unless i totaly play aoe wrong on sin

[rigid mango]

You essentially use CT in everything that isn't kr/siege/tyr tos

Those are the example dungeons where the aoe gain isn't big enough for CT at the same time as having more impactful bosses in general.

[manic prism]

how do i get the detection spell?

[maiden raptor]

Wait Kr is Kings Rest i assume. But what is tyr tos?

[rigid mango]

Tyrannical temple

[maiden raptor]

Aight thanks a lot

[fallow otter]

@manic prism you already have it

[supple pelican]

stat weights saying gem vers man

[rigid mango]

Use top gear instead

Also all our stats are +- same so it shouldn't come as a shock 😄

[strange python]

Got torment in a jar yesterday, and by the numbers alone it didnt really do that much. Maybe im just spoiled by EV

[grizzled jay]

I mean it has 2 effects which come together to do like 5-6% that's good

[velvet nacelle]

gotta love the grind to rank 3 bote

got multiple bgs today with at least half my teammates having less than 250k health