They fixed draught same patch
#assassination
strange python
I think it was end of patch or mid end patch
Or smth
But it was cuz draught was steisfht up brokrn with recklessness
But coral just has good synergy
Not like we do 500k dps on pull with it for 1 minute
rigid mango
No, it's just colossaly broken in all comp pve content and is beating trinkets 30-40 ilvls above aha yes entirely balanced I guess (^:
strange python
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
whole mantle
so 3 SS is better than 3 EB to M+?
strange python
@iron heath
rigid mango
@whole mantle yus.
honest iris
is vita accurate on raidbot?
cobalt pelican
should be yeah
harsh anchor
There any general tips people have gathered this week for Nzoth? As sin, its a major struggle to compete with a lot of ranged and other melee with the void echo corruption :\
Best corruption I got is infinite stars and a +% to crit damage ; probably the best thing I can do is hope for good corruption out of weekly chest or spam keys for a hopeful 1st/2nd week aotc
cobalt pelican
chances are if you don't have ev you're not owning this week, that's just how it be
and honestly i think the best option is just to vend 3x in a 10 min fight which sounds awful but if you don't have excess dps it ensures the most nzoth damage
i tried some psychus vend times but they all end up bad in the end
scenic nacelle
Twilight dev > echo
cobalt pelican
hmm
drifting cloud
lol no
scenic nacelle
r3 Twilight Dev has out damaged my r1 void in every situation
drifting cloud
sullen pagoda
comparing r3 to r1 
arctic walrus
that's so crazy
scenic nacelle
=]
drifting cloud
bote minor surely cant be right
timber meadow
ah right I didn't have room to do essences int he same sim
azerite takin up too much space
arctic walrus
just do this and you're fine
wanton pond
what food yall use for raid?
arctic walrus
your highest simming stat
cobalt pelican
since most people play 3x ss ct these days mastery is a pretty valuable stat
something like crit > mastery=vers > haste is probably about right, but it's possible mastery is straight more valuable than crit in some cases
errant viper
Hey, um, just to confirm... I checked the pins and the channel and all Guides refer to 8.2. Just to make sure: 8.3 Guides are not out yet, right?
cobalt pelican
wowheads guide has been updated for 8.3 i think
at least loosely
not much has changed actual gameplay wise besides worldvein buffs currently
errant viper
So all B iS essences for M+ / Raids + rotations would remain the same pretty much?
cobalt pelican
rotation yeah, essences mostly
clf got nerfed, worldvein got buffed, both are still playable and sims should be relied on for you personally
errant viper
Gotcha.
Have a LOT of catching up to do, barely played any 8.2.
Here's hoping they implemented some catch up mechanics for essences.
cobalt pelican
they made the requiremenets on the majority of them lower than in 8.2
proud salmon
if you are at 4 combo points would you want to use toxic blade or garrote to get to 5 then envenom?
or do you just want to spend the 4?
proud salmon
but whats better?
civic palm
Garrote @ 4cp is better than TB @ 4cp if you need to refresh Garrote.
Garrote is still too expensive to use a "filler" for getting to nominal CP for finishers.
In Legion we had stuff like
which made Garrote basically CP filler, now it's just too expensive.
fallen compass
Do any combination of the new raid trinkets compare to Coral + Font? or are the old trinkets just that far ahead dps wise
Just wondering if im going to have to grind mythic azshara
arctic walrus
if you don't have a 445 font you can just get a mythic wrathion, cuz that's probably way easier to come by
you will be behind yes, but I don't think pugging that will be worth it
fallen compass
wrathion's is better than Vita and Torment?
crimson salmon
anyone able to look at some logs for me and help me out---my dps is running about half of what it should be in raid and i want to try and fix it
arctic walrus
I can look in a few minutes
crimson salmon
ok
arctic walrus
what's confusing exactly
onyx hedge
so for some reason internet explorer allows me to sim all enchants and gems at the same time and it comes out with that 57411, but then i sim e.g just enchants for weapons or just gems or just ring enchants it sims higher
I don't pay for siming to its a pain to try sim gear for all enchants and gems and it be accurate
If anyone has premium and can do a quick sim for me that would make my life so much easier
arctic walrus
you simmed no wv allies in the 57k
hazy geyser
is it worth it to go subterfuge in m+ even if you dont have SS for the energy regain?
onyx hedge
No one in my raid group thinks that worldvein is any good dispite sims so i prob shouldnt even bother with simming it but i am anyway
arctic walrus
you don't play sin if you don't have ss basically
hazy geyser
man... i am able to get 3x echoing easily but the only way to get SS is if i get rid of echoing
arctic walrus
I mean that's worth it
hazy geyser
so i will end up with 2x echoing 1x NP 2x twist 1x ss
onyx hedge
best way to sim for a fight like hivemind ? Not sure what settings to use. Im going to play outlaw but asked in the outlaw channel and no one replying so :I. Just need to setting spec is irrelavant
hazy geyser
hectic add cleave with 2 bosses?
i am just using my outlaw M+ build on hivemind
also dont depend on sims they are not always accurate
onyx hedge
same im using M+ build on that
hazy geyser
especially for AOE
onyx hedge
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6MfMZnAYSEyyKFxbZUUsN9 best i can get for ST Sin with my character
but it will be lower because no one in my raid group thinks that it is worth running worldvein so D:
been trying to convince people and get them to sim it but apparently everyone to lazy to
hazy geyser
i hate you for having those corruptions
hazy geyser
because i have 5 different corruptions and all of them are trash
arctic walrus
@crimson salmon link
crimson salmon
stby
hazy geyser
i am still pumping but definitely got shitty corruption https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/b4sJLorcSjNd4NhVuEXCB
distant halo
hazy geyser
you are playing shrouded suffocation and dont even have r3 essences or 3rd minor
i mean come on you are missing so much lmao
arctic walrus
link a topgear if you want actual gear help
but from this you need to work on your essences heavily
and you never run master poisoner, pick up elaborate planning
strange python
Why does breath of the undying minor has a 50% heal and half the dmg on raidbots compared to ingame
Bug?
drifting cloud
you mean the tooltip?
strange python
Yes
onyx hedge
there i lose 1k dps because my raid doesnt want to run world
3 people run world and i get 1k dps
and we have 30 people in raid becuase its heroic
.....
strange python
Thought r2 would be ok but still worse than old essences
And r3 ist what, exalted uldum
Pepeg
Can't wait for reset, 475 corrupted stars or void 👌
Even r2 echoing or stars on any piece would give me 5k dps increase, it's actually insane
strange python
98 corruption boyyyy
onyx hedge
We saw nothing
deep solstice
deleting that for being dumb
onyx hedge
Anyone willing to put in alittle bit of time ? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rwtHweCGB7pcAw3UAKLMVM can anyone get anything higher ? Mind you that my raid is refusing to run any worldveins cant find anyone to do it. So dont bother trying to sim that
i think im alright at simming but wondering if i can find some magical soul that can push out alittle bit more 🙂
strange python
Wv use in actual raid encounter is almost always a dps loss to Sims, so I just run clf
onyx hedge
use vendetta nad then worldvein
world lasts for 18 s vendetta 20 s
use vendetta worldvein TB vanish
strange python
I keep seeing people stacking corruption effects past their "tier 3" so now im assuming they do... "stack" even though I was told they dont hmm
Also @onyx hedge Yes you. Levi gem
cobalt pelican
they do stack
idk why you'd be told they don't
there might be some weird proc interactions with some of them like the cdr one and stuff but as far as i know all of them stack properly
strange python
For example.. Carapace dagger Twisted 2. Boots with Twisted 3. I was under the assumption in total it "caps" at Tier 3 combined lol.
Maybe I misunderstood Zine then XD
cobalt pelican
should be fine, just use the simumalations
onyx hedge
Ill sim the agi gem
arctic walrus
I did
onyx hedge
Why agi over something like haste or vers
arctic walrus
it's like 200-300
onyx hedge
really?
arctic walrus
ye I simmed it for you
onyx hedge
ty
fossil pagoda
my dps allover the flor
strange python
So just so I understand correctly
You think you should do more damage or?
You don't understand why your damage is low? You sim much higher then what you actually do?
arctic walrus
That's not my sim ebi if you're wondering
linking logs is your best bet to getting help if you have anything of the sort
strange python
Well, on warcraftlogs
fossil pagoda
my english not that good so sorry
strange python
It's fine
You can also start by using the website called raidbots and simming yourself there
arctic walrus
what is your character name and realm
strange python
Simming = simulating your damage
fossil pagoda
elikologs
strange python
^ and are you on Europe or US?
fossil pagoda
Eu
strange python
What's your server name?
strange python
So you say you do 28k dps single target?
fossil pagoda
overall dps
strange python
What about a single target fight ?
Since that's the best way to start to see where things go wrong etc
fossil pagoda
like boss fight same
fossil pagoda
srat dps its going 70dps and going down to 28
strange python
You should be doing way above 28k dps
You should be doing 44k dps at the very least so you must be doing something wrong
And your essences look kind of weird
What would you usually run on a single target fight ?
cobalt pelican
you need to read the guide my friend
strange python
Yep ^
cobalt pelican
your only log is from wrathion normal and it's very messy
fossil pagoda
english not good hard to understand
strange python
Lol
cobalt pelican
opener wrong, iris on single target is a no go, 7min30 fight with 2 vendettas
strange python
^
cobalt pelican
6tbs in 7:30
granted some of it is like
wrathion flying around like an idiot time but
cobalt pelican
you need to start with the basics and just read the guide in full, understand your aims and then get some more raid logs and come back
use raidbots to find what essences to play, if you don't want to then at least just play something generic like condensed life firce major, iris/lucid/breath of the dying minor
strange python
U think 10 eur patreon raidbots worth :/?
I only got the 3 one, it's a bitch to best gear but eh
I use it myself, worth to me at least
young condor
Is something wrong with the website?
cobalt pelican
it's in the middle of a migration/update, or something
young condor
Any ETA?
young condor
My guy ❤️
cobalt pelican
i think other than that the site itself should be functioning by tomorrow at least temporarily but i'm not really s ure
oblique smelt
Is there any way to figure out what's an aberation
cobalt pelican
generic ingame tooltips show unit type
if you mean outside of the game, wowhead should show them
oblique smelt
o didn't know tooltip showed it
cobalt pelican
should do, lvl 120 humanoid, lvl 121 aberration etc
oblique smelt
if i sim purification protocol as minor, does it just assume that the target is an aberation?
peak saffron
there's an option
oblique smelt
oh it's right there i was looking for it for like 5 minutes
faint spoke
The guide says the opener with master assa is garrote, muti, rup, but sim goes muti rup muti garrote
Should I do what sim does? Or just garrote ?
peak saffron
I believe the guide hasn't been updated
cobalt pelican
ravenholdt guide is kinda out of date, the opener change is insignificant overall but you should learn the sim variant over the guide variant
faint spoke
Also gide says you vanish into toxic blade, but sim tb blood vanish
young condor
How big of a change would that provide?
faint spoke
Ohh ty
cobalt pelican
any number i give you will be made up cause i've not simmed it in current gear but when the change was made in early tep it was like 0.1% or something
the gap has likely grown a bit with gear but you can definitely use the old opener just fine and do well
faint spoke
Also, I always run m+ as outlaw, but I want to give it a try as assa, would I be losing too much if I don’t use vanish with vendetta?
cobalt pelican
if you're playing assassination in m+ vanish is a pretty significant dps cooldown by itself
and won't always end up being lined up with vendetta depending on the pack you're playing
faint spoke
If the pack is living lets say 30s do I vanish for the ss? Mid pull? Or do I save it for when I pop vendetta?
cobalt pelican
it's something that's a lot less rigid than the raid use of vanish like
if your initial garrotes are expiring, and the pack will live long enough to see another set of shrouded suffocation garrotes, but there's no priority target that actually warrants vendettaing
i'd generally just vanish 3x garrote and either hold vend for something upcoming that i know i might need it for, or throw it out and not really worry too much abotu it
orchid solstice
Anyone else particularly underwhelmed by lashing tentacle?
crimson palm
Any tips on using vendetta in wrathion fight?
Our kill time was ~4:30 on HC but managed to get only 1 vendetta out apart from the opener
cobalt pelican
in a 4:30 fight i don't think you realistically will get more than 2 vends, his intermission is like 2:10
and then there's the smoke and mirrors shit to deal with
pretty sure you just cut your losses and make sure that the 3min or so vend is hot
onyx hedge
But is it really. I thought it was Haste mastery > crit vers
faint harness
minor things can push others higher
faint harness
That might be the case. Benthic made it wonky in EP
crimson palm
@cobalt pelican so the second vendetta would ideally be during execute right? After the smoke & mirrors
In this case I'd just run CLF and have both vendettas overlap with it
stable isle
yeah clf seems a good choice for that fight. hate the timinh of that intermission
crimson palm
If mythic kill time is similar, yeah
runic tinsel
I just got an azerite piece with both Echoing blades and shrouded suffocation. Dunno how to sim that, so whats generally the most important of the two? (i got SS elsewhere)
They are on the same ring btw
runic tinsel
alright, ty 🙂
ionic arrow
im testing infinit stones on dummies but details doesnt show me the dmg. Am I missing something?
faint harness
stones?
it doesnt work on dummies for some reason
try test it by just hitting regular mobs or duel some healer
latent path
I see from logs that lots of people are using vision of perfection as a minor, but the problem is that Vendetta is not aligning anymore with Vanish. Do i just use Vendetta with Vision and Vanish on CD or shall i delay something?
sorry for bad english, not my native language
drifting cloud
what logs are you looking at
hot flume
Got a quick question folks (hope the topic hasn't been brought up because I didn't see any talk about it). Is the bonus from mechagon rings took into account in the droptimizer or not ?
crimson palm
Which logs u looking at?
latent path
my bad, just checked again, only 2 VoP in first 20 logs of Wrathion, sorry ^^'
crimson palm
you can use Shad'har/Hivemind as a reference for ST/MT dps
latent path
I was confused by the outlaw logs in there, forgot to filter by spec so i saw more VoP than there actually are 🙂
hushed sky
cobalt pelican
vops prolly kinda ok on wrathion cause it's basically a bonus vend
you'd have to have some weird ass trinkets
to play it though
knotty pond
is loop of recursion any good if i only have the 1 ring
crimson palm
sim it?
marble hemlock
No it does not.
timber furnace
Good Morning Can someone help me fast getting the right traits on my gear ?
timber furnace
Should i send you pm or how we gonna do it ?
tropic ocean
or just pm simc string if u want
timber furnace
Ah du bist deutsch diggih
real bay
is there a point in saving cds for nzoth? looking at logs everyone blasts them on phychus, then again you won't make it to logs without doing so
tropic ocean
we put people to use cds on psychus and others on boss
but yeah most optimal is probably using on cd
for rogue u want to delay it a bit i guess to benefit vendetta from the increased dmg on psychus
cobalt pelican
it's not rly like a dps check at all if you're in a real guild
shrewd night
There is a special place in hell for people who think its alright to blow cds on the mob that kills itself.
cobalt pelican
i think nzoth 1 nzoth 2 psychus 3 nzoth burn is fine for cds
top lgos will all be like
psychus 1 psychus 2 psychus 3 nzoth burn
with bops on the debuff
if not today by next week at least
split furnace
Is it a real problem on neltharion to use CLF rank 2 as major if I don’t already have r3? Or better to use worldvein r3 instead?
brisk forge
split furnace
Even if I have worldvein r2 and not the 3?xD
Gonna fix it next week or 2 both wv and clf t.t
split furnace
@brisk forge oh yes I was just anticipating the next week pool of essences in my hands :3
@shut garnet upsy dupsy wrathion 🤣❤️
ionic arrow
my infinite stars did 1,2k dps during maut, what did I wrong 😄
faint harness
unlucky maybe
vestal wren
is it low itemlvl?
shrewd night
!warn @frigid ember This is not LFG, either post in #recruitment or use another discord for this purpose.
Kek
Think I warned some random on accident, ah well.
frigid ember
Ok oops
azure shoal
shut garnet
yep, meanwhile mine did 100k over a 3 minute fight yesterday
crimson palm
this is what i got on my nzoth kill
shut garnet
it’s just dumb rng procs :p
azure shoal
it's actually high skill gaming thank you
orchid solstice
My appendage was doing 2% of my total... that’s at 470 ilvl WTF ARE YOU GUYS DOING TO GET THOSE NUMBERS
candid anvil
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
crimson palm
@orchid solstice apparently this XD
orchid solstice
- was using appendage of N’Zoth... not sure if the phasing between zones and movement cucks the appendage?
On*
snow storm
i think they can also die to aoe
tender escarp
Hello guys! If Ashvane's Razor Coral and Vita-Charged Titanshard are out two best trinkets may that set bonus which comes from both Ra-Den trinkets be superior to Ashvane's Razor Coral? Thank you in advance!
royal lantern
the void one seems too be better RIGHT NOW
there will probably be a buff too the new trinkets/nerf too the EP ones
chrome forum
which is dumb
unless they super nerf TEP ones, having on use is just so decent for sin.
real bay
just get your melee all use vita trinket for giga haste group buffs 4head
faint harness
the vita trinket jumps to pets
apparently
does it work with the corruption proc?
quiet parrot
Question, to get the best SIM for ST, would you recommend fight style Training Dummy vs Patch work?
warm parcel
You start by uninstalling askmrrobot
shrewd night
Step 1 - Use a simulation tool that offers correct, peer-reviewed APL instead of some homebrew makebelieve APL.
Step 2 - Profit.
vestal wren
patchwork is target dummy essentially
cobalt pelican
he might not be using amr, raidbots has a 'training dummy' fight style as one of the options but i'm pretty sure it's just patchwerk with no buffs
though i've never actually used it to test
distant cypress
anyone here miss shadowcraft 
?
vestal wren
shadowcraft was nice but did not replace simming
jaunty arrow
Shadowcraft 
vestal wren
it was a rly cool project
but also showcased a lot of limitations and issues
when you create a mathematical model instead of a simulation
amber delta
I love how no one actually answered @quiet parrot 's question and just ragged on amr lol
vestal wren
Patchwerk will set up an empty raid events list. This is a perfect stand still, single-target DPS fight. The name comes from the iconic DPS check fight from Naxxramas.
vestal wren
i did not know about a target dummy fight style on raidbots, if it exists its probably similar
target dummy from raidbots:
Always 100% health, raid buffs/debuffs disabled, no consumables
amber delta
@vestal wren I think the main difference comes from 100% health. Not sure, haven't looked into details on the patchwerk setting but I think that takes into account any cleave abilities and such
vestal wren
the diffrence comes from dissabling consumables and raid buffs
hp is only relevant if you have some sort of execution mechanic
potent raft
basically it's the dps number to reach on a dummy
to sim how good your rotation execution is
warm parcel
Dummy hp moves
potent raft
(useful for my shitty NV sub execution)
empty hatch
so where is there a guide
radiant walrus
Pins
rigid mango
crimson palm
did anyone pad rupture on n'zoth for increased energy regen?
rigid mango
Where in the fight do you mean
crimson palm
When you're not dealing with Psychus
crimson palm
So he has shield and you're moving for tentacles
You can hit him and pad rupture during that time, but dunno if it's worth
narrow comet
I pad like crazy on hivemind ;p
everyone seems to go outlaw for that, i dun have the gear
was close tbh
not bad for a cripple 😛
cobalt pelican
hella not worth to rupture nzoth purely for energy unless you're cross mapping to basher and have nothing better to do with your life
crimson palm
we were cross mapping each time
on the pull before the kill, i was able to pad and have full energy before they appeared
on the kill i was energy starved as they spawned too fast
cobalt pelican
guess it might just be a thing that varies idk we were basically waiting for tentacles to spawn
and any ruptures i applied to nzoth when he's immune was basically just because i don't like not pressing buttons
crimson palm
i tend not to so i can get an accurate estimate for uptime dps
tropic ocean
@crimson palm theres usually ~3tentacles on one spot so
no energy issue
probably better off rupturing spiked if in desperate need
quiet parrot
@warm parcel I dont have askmrrobot... i was talking about the fight styles on raidbots.com
@vestal wren I figured as much, i like to use training dummy so when im practicing i know what numbers i should be maintaining.
@amber delta yea, maybe it was a dumb question, but i was just curious if there was any real difference, maybe something i didnt know about.
amber delta
A dumb question imo is something like "should I use stealth as a rogue?" Yours was legit for someone who is newer to rogue simming
quiet parrot
Yea I keep learning more and more about raidbots.
vestal wren
its a valid question for outlaw
as stealth/vanish dont offer a lot of value for outlaw
cobalt pelican
general answer is patchwerk 5 mins is the default sim style for single target
and is what the majority of people use as a baseline
i think it's the default settings on raidbots too
so should work out of the box
quiet parrot
Here’s another one.
When doing top gear, with ‘let sim’ decide for pot and food, I’m the results where do I see what it decided?
cobalt pelican
you'd have to go into the report to check, but it's a predetermined consumable set
amber delta
@vestal wren lol you know what I meant
cobalt pelican
for assassination single target it's, potion of focused resolve, agi flask, mainstat feast and augment rune
honest vessel
does raidbots have the ability to sim different consumables?
honest vessel
sick
honest vessel
i dont suppose theres a handy top gear version of it where you can compare a bunch at once
cobalt pelican
yeah you can do
generally unbridled fury is worth checking
aswell as the secondary stat foods
as they're almost always better than the feasts
not quite sure why the feast is the default now but i guess it's something to do with how corruptions werei nteracting with mainstat to begin with
quiet parrot
Yea I wanna test unbridle fury vs focused resolve. And haste food vs crit food
amber delta
What are you guys sitting at right now with haste and crit?
quiet parrot
I have like 24% haste
amber delta
What % of haste are you guys finding is comfortable?
I just got back into rogue and I just remember when the pre patch launched for BFA rogue suddenly stopped feeling smooth
quiet parrot
The guides I’ve read say 25% is the fall off point p
opal urchin
@amber delta thats just every class honestly
jolly comet
I could have sworn people were using Unbridled Fury in EP? Are we suppoed to be using Focused Resolve now?
quiet parrot
So I take that as get to 25% haste. Then switch to crit.
cobalt pelican
unbridled fury is the general go-to, focused resolve is currently the default in the sim because it was better with the profile when it was originally made i suppose
check both for your character frequently
as corruptions swing things
quite a lot
jolly comet
ok thank you
quiet parrot
I just open raid bots in 3 or 4 browser tabs and run one after another
rigid mango
You don't want a specific amount of haste
quiet parrot
Oh?
rigid mango
There's no magic number
On any stat
They all essentially scale linearly but some corruption effects alter them
If you're still trying to go for specific numbers, use top gear
Your way of thinking is unfortunatly very outdated
quiet parrot
Sorry I read it wrong.
There is no magic number.
Other people I was talking to said they like to hit 25% and stop
vestal wren
you could run a plot on your stats to see what scales best
rigid mango
I'm at like
17% atm
And that's optimal
(for me)
Running top gear sims is vital to optimisation
quiet parrot
For gems and enchants I run what top gear tells me.
vestal wren
dps_plot_stat=haste,crit_rating,mastery```I do not.
rigid mango
Can you link me your most recent sim?
If it's correct I'd love to learn why your char is valuing haste so highly
quiet parrot
It’s probably not. A guildie said that’s what he does for his rogue, when I said I’ve been just using top gear to tell me which gems to use.
rigid mango
It's probably not a massive diff, but it's defo an outdated mindset to how gearing works.
quiet parrot
I I’ll send you my link though when I’m back at my desk
rigid mango
👍
hollow stone
Even more w corruption
rigid mango
Extremely so.
hollow stone
All it took was t1 crit dmg to make crit > haste w my current gear for me
Only 2% chd made the difference
rigid mango
My stat weights flipped 4 times during our hc run because of the gear I was getting
hollow stone
Ye
subtle tundra
im at 11% haste Pog
crimson palm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5fL6yNXBbar72KhhweMXTj anything you'd change?
open mural
does your guild actually run 10 worldvein? also can i have your dagger T_T
deft vault
Simbots says I should use the crit pots. True or nah?
warm parcel
Try which is better for you
crimson palm
We do on certain bosses
hollow stone
Psure wv sim caps out at like wv3 or 4
Anything above that doesnt actually change the sim
Might wanna double check that. But i remember simming 10 just for lulz and was same dps as simming 2
deft vault
Corr?
hollow stone
Corr (uptions)
deft vault
Gotcha
quasi scroll
I use TopGear and it recommended one set of gear/azerite. A friend pasted my info into MrRobot and got a totally different set.
Is MrRobot considered reliable?
vast forum
no
quasi scroll
ok because what he sent me was wack
exotic meadow
should I de corrupt my carapace dagger
cobalt pelican
basically nobody has any idea what amr does, it just spits out random shit and you're supposed to take their word for it that they know what they're doing
exotic meadow
or play with 70 corruption
cobalt pelican
you won't be playing with 70 under any circumstances besides meme raids probably
but i wouldn't recommend cleansing anything either right now
afk and wait till reset day
cobalt pelican
lmao
quasi scroll
and go from Coral/Dice to Galecaller/Inkpod
cobalt pelican
that's pretty wild
bright tusk
Yo, on N'zoth I'm trying to commit to assassination instead of going outlul. I'm using 445 socketed Coral and 460 socketed vita-charged, and I think I'm using the correct essences and traits/talents.
But, in phase1 am I supposed to put bleeds on the tentacles? Because they barely last at all, it feels like a huge dps loss, so far I've had bleeds on Psychus and the occasional mutilate/envenom on synapse tentacles
bright tusk
I don't even know if they last 6 sec tbh, on heroic btw. It's hard to tell, some go down really fast and some take a little longer depending on what short cd's people are using
hollow junco
tbh i don't see assassination providing more raid value than outlaw on n'zoth, at least not in heroic. no comment on mythic. outlaw's value is too high between
- cleave off of psychus since he takes extra damage, do ultradamage to synapse tentacles with blade flurry
- shame the rest of the raid on upstairs tentacle dmg also with blade flurry
- cooldowns cycle fast enough to use them on tentacles/psychus and yet to have adren rush up again for n'zoth burst windows
but idk, this is a narrow viewed opinion from only a single normal and a single heroic kill
we'll see what real life looks like in the coming weeks
cobalt pelican
you do get outlaw cds back but they're just
insignificant
tbh the fight has no meaningful dps checks so you can basically do whatever you want
i gave up trying to cast on tents after 1 pull when they were dying before my rupture ticked once and i was just wasting my time
it's a little different in your grp of 10 but if you have any natural cleave classes doing damage it's mostly the same
marble hemlock
Psychus doesnt need any dps cooldowns popped on him to die in time, and Assa has straightup higher singletarget than Outlaw on Nzoth, the only part where you might say DPS matters
wanton pond
I think keep bleeds on psychus and just mut/env the tentcles no ?
bright tusk
So I'll probably only focus psychus then.
I know outlaw is doing better on N'zoth heroic, but my gear is suboptimized and sin isn't that far behind so I figured it's better for me to commit to sin.
How do you have adrenaline up for N'zoth burnphase? I timed it yesterday and we started pumping on him at 70 seconds after pull, even with vision of perfection that's not enough right?
@wanton pond yeah that's what I've been doing basically.
hollow junco
honestly i rarely even got a chance to do that to tentacles, because DH and BM hunters get it low before psychus is even dragged into range and we can't risk popping too soon
when i went down, i pretty much just stayed on psychus and kicked him
the 2nd group had our outlaw rogue though and he all but soloed synapse tentacles
crimson palm
You dot up Psychus and use Mutilate/Envenom on tentacles
Keep in mind on Mythic, those tentacles won't die that fast
bright tusk
you are talking in phase2 during mindgate? I'm in our groups 2nd team and haven't been down more than once so far
crimson palm
And don't use bleeds on them as someone suggested above, you're wasting a GCD
hollow junco
heroic synapse tentacles evaporate if you look at them too hard. i grant you mythic tentacles will scale up, but so will our dmg, especially as the raid gets more echoing voids and other such corruptions
point is, they aren't really a viable target as assassination. you're right, mutilate/envenom only really if you actually get a chance to hit them. i'm pointing out that in my very limited one kill of heroic experience, id idn't even get that chance, because DHs dash over there before the rest of us and between them and BM hunters the synapse tentacles are low before psychus is even dragged in range. YMMV on the comp of your downstairs group.
bright tusk
Yeah so I'll just keep doing what I'm doing then, in phase2 during mindgate, will the synapse tentacles have the same amount of hp as in phase2 so it's just rinse and repeat?
bright tusk
aah true, and I guess 2-3 cp ruptures like someone said should be enough
hollow junco
if heroic tentacles last long enough for you to rupture them there's probably something wrong
bright tusk
In phase1 they dont'
hollow junco
not in phase 2 either
bright tusk
barely had a chance to see that yet, which is why I asked
we are stuck between the mindgates so far on our "prog"
people can't follow interrupt order
hollow stone
What seli said. Sin is there for nzoth dmg
For those phases, i sat psych the whole time
Didnt even rupt snipe
But thats dependent on your comp/other dps killing the tendies
bright tusk
noted, thanks for clearing things up
hollow stone
I also ran clf mj on nzoth and my boss dmg was pretty significant over the other dps. Just something to consider, not saying for sure it was the correct choice
But it felt good
hollow stone
That was my thinking
bright tusk
regarding essences I'm just running what the current best sin logs are doing basically
marble hemlock
optimizing psychus dmg is just kinda pointless, as long as people dont run out of sanity or die to flames or anguish, you can just get him to one more stack and not use any CDs at all and barely lose time
cobalt pelican
only issue with clf really is it's like
slightly longer than the 20s i guess
so you prolly pop it for the last 10sec of psychus or some shit
and idk how it interacts when you click your body
hollow stone
You get max 30s on nzoth in those phases
cobalt pelican
i did do the fight half asleep so
hollow stone
Click your body faster :p
cobalt pelican
i will trust you
bright tusk
Okay, so I'll probably replace bote with clf tonight then for more N'zoth dmg
hollow stone
Just held everything for nzoth dmg. Parse sucked but boss dmg was 👌
bright tusk
weell some rl's might not take such a deep look into logs when deciding which players get to continue to mythic prog ^^
hollow stone
Yea. Personally idgaf about parses cause my raid spot is super secured lol
bright tusk
I've got competition from two other rogues.. if my logs are blue/green I'm a little afraid that I might not get a spot ^^ Oh well, problem for wednesday I guess
hollow stone
Only advice i can give in that regard is to educate your rl as best as you can about the purpose of sin (prio dmg w cds and st)
Thankfully my rl just asks what rogues should do on each fight
Like, for carapace, for example. I just sit on the fury for full vend even tho the first eye stalk spawns during that time and needs to die asap
(On pull)
stable plinth
honestly it's up to you to tell your raid leader what your class is capable and incapable of doing
if they dont believe you or want you to do things that will make you play suboptimally even after you educate them then they're just a bad raid leader
you cant expect a raid leader to understand every specs strengths and weaknesses by themselves in casual to mid end guilds
arctic walrus
Yes
dreamy schooner
I always saw assassin on ST its Crit and Haste, but in my sims says smt like Crit Mastery
arctic walrus
Depends on a few factors but that’s nothing out of the ordinary
crimson palm
im sitting on 49% mastery atm and it still seems to be simming very high on st
rigid mango
All stats are good
Keep this in mind
They change A lot especially in the era of corruption
iron heath
Hi. Nerfs over night ? I’m sim lower ><
rigid mango
Link both?
iron heath
I will
strange python
Hello, how much difference can be from simcraft dps and dps on training dummy?
shut garnet
simcraft is avg of 50k dummy pulls
yours is only one so you risk running into an anomalous result, but shouldnt be that much of a difference
also the bot plays perfectly
so its also down to your play
rigid mango
bot plays perfectly, has all buffs
strange python
hm... simcraft says i have about 40.9k dps, but i can do only 30...
strange python
from details?
rigid mango
Log as in warcraftlogs
vital haven
bots plays perfectly? we'll see about that 
arctic walrus
You can run a target dummy sim and it should be close
strange python
ok i install wowlogs client but how can i get logs for uploading?
worthy moon
But by such a small amount that F font.
arctic walrus
Yeah a 430 font is on par with a 460
shut garnet
worthy moon
Font gameplay has always felt awful to me
frosty talon
You have to create an Account and in game you have to type /combatlog
strange python
oh ok thanks
hidden dirge
Anyone some experience with Hidden Blades in M+? I feel like it's strong with BotE and 3 EB traits.
worthy moon
@shut garnet Thought conventional wisdom dictated that we weren't really pooling around much except TB
Also, more specifically, the Font + coral was so bad to play around imho
shut garnet
i guess, but thats what you mostly line it up with
wanton pond
Question in m+ on big packs it's best to just slap tb on something and forget it right ?
shut garnet
refresh bleeds, go mut for 0 energy into font and its chill
shut garnet
idk it feels super natural to play for me atm
wanton pond
Not dumping anything into the tb target ?
rigid mango
You shouldn't use TB if you don't need the prio
there's no reason to it's worth less than most abilities
wanton pond
Hmm so save for when the packs dying down and like 1 or two mobs left ?
And is there an ideal amount of adds to use Fok depending on amount of EB ?
Im stuck with 2 EB 2 ss with what I have
shut garnet
you use fok>mut for 2 targets and over if there is no clear prio target
to generate cp
mystic anchor
Sup guys! For those who pvp a lot do u feel some corrupted effect are mandatory! Ive seen some crazy dmg from it (like 25% overall dmg)
strange python
Ok, looks like i figured out
5 min fight, 30k dps... simcraft says it must be 40.9k
shut garnet
yeah uuuuh
rigid mango
@arctic walrus
arctic walrus
Cursed vers
shut garnet
your opener should be like
strange python
uh yeah it's on macro with Vulpera ability
shut garnet
mutilate -> rup -> mutilate -> garrote -> vendetta -> tb -> bote -> vanish -> env
cobalt pelican
unmacro it pls
strange python
but why?
rigid mango
isn't vulpera thingy on gcd or smth
strange python
any know, whats trait use in Carapace`s Chest?
noble mesa
if I have font of power and galecallers whats the best workaround, or optimal use for both of them, sicne they have the 30 sec cd between uses?
rigid mango
@strange python whatever sims the best mymans
shut garnet
no lmao
rigid mango
@noble mesa 20 seconds my mans
cobalt pelican
it's a 2min trinket you use with vendetta, basically
rigid mango
use it when it comes off cd
shut garnet
you pop it on pull, you stack it up until your cds come back up and then you pull it out
if you use coral every 20 seconds you're uuuuh
playing without a trinket kinda?xdd
why cant i see what gear he's using on summary 🤔
noble mesa
oh it is 20, I cant count
strange python
noble mesa
so I font before pull and do I just use galecallers whenever its up, or will it line up with my vanish/toxic blade combo on opener?
cobalt pelican
do you really not have like anything besides galecallers to play
noble mesa
I had the mechagon trinket
rigid mango
Might be better tbh
noble mesa
with ass for cards in it basically
strange python
ok what again about opener? i must muti from stealth for 1st strike? or garrote?
shut garnet
this is assuming you run 0 shrouded suffocations traits, which you shouldnt run in raid
strange python
and what about next? after vanish?
shut garnet
envenom
strange python
oh i see
oh wow, i just start using coral for vendetta and not every 20 sec and get +6k dps
i must read more guides...
thanks for help
placid kindle
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hDowkj4Wjb173CYhfHVf6m void twisted sim KEKW
noble mesa
in that opener pic it says use CLF but when I take worldvein my opener damage is more than doubled than when I do clf?
so why take clf
rigid mango
Because CLF is still really good
WV has more issues with actual movement
Also you have to realise CLF does smooth damage for 30 sec WV spikes in your first TB window and then lowers and drops off at 18 sec
noble mesa
I see
wary ice
rigid mango
You might peak higher but your actual dps at the end of 30 sec should be higher with CLF
Also the minor is quite valuable to some extent, even though it was nerfed
WV is really nutty though.
frosty talon
What to use 1st on pull with BL if im usig coral +Lustrous Golden Plumage?
rigid mango
Obv plumage?
Coral is for stacks
It doesn't give you any on use damage like plumage does
also really terrible to use both together, btw.
frosty talon
Its better to use font +coral then?
rigid mango
The only reason you play 2 on use is because of fonts' 30(34 sec in reality from cast) up time
Yes 100000000000%
You can't use coral with other on use like plumage as sin
pliant apex
eh did the guide listed here completely change??
rigid mango
it should essentially be the same just new visuals
pliant apex
not at all, MA talented now says start with garrote
previously was start with mutialte?
rigid mango
Did you get linked to one that's old?
pliant apex
yup see for yourslef, ill paste
Master Assassin talented
Garrote
Mutilate
Rupture
Vendetta
Vanish
Toxic Blade
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
thats what it says now weird
rigid mango
no
Tell me
When was it made
Idc about waht it says
Which date was it made
The one I just linked
rigid mango
The website is getting work done and it's fucking with the guides for some reason
pliant apex
i should follow what ive been following since last week right
rigid mango
Yuh, nothing's changed.
pliant apex
ty
jolly comet
Does Raidbots take into account the corruption effects on gear?
white wyvern
Of course.
jolly comet
And for Twilight Devastation, if I have two pieces of gear with it does it double the dmg or double the proc rate?
both are 6% of my health so is it 12% of health or double the proc rate
at 6%
glass seal
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/x9KhFBM3gNubTogHsAH2TA why are my sims giving so much value to mastery for ST?
dense axle
looks like haste isnt too far behind. Mastery is also pretty good until you start getting Stars corruptions where haste just takes off cause it effects Star's PPM
also looks like youre already gemming/chanting for haste and crit, could be your mastery is just low relative to them, so the sim says to get more mastery to balance it out
very feel crafty, but I dont see anything obviously wrong with your gear that would lean it that way
or your azerite
so just get gud and roll some corruption gear my dude
glass seal
so its just diminishing returns of haste and crit?
dense axle
probs
do you not h ave a better trinket than inkpod?
and I would re-sim your minor azerite traits and see if it changes
glass seal
I should farm C&S but im too lazy to do pvp
dense axle
but honestly, at this point in the sim game, it's kinda useless to be simming stat weights. Each piece can be simmed individually now with almost 0 extra effort
dude, I'm trying to get to twos 1600, but it's just so annoying
you will gain a boat load of DPS by getting some corruption in there though.
like - worth wearing a 415 with a corruption on it if it's the right one
hollow stone
415 t2 EV gave me over 3k sim dps over perfectly itemized and socketed 455s. Can confirm
bright tusk
yikes
crimson palm
wasn't the ilvl nerf supposed to fix this
arctic walrus
no because EV scales off your max hp
low plank
fleet whale
i got a 445 dagger with EV on it... just from playing around a bit on a dummy i can already tell how strong it is lol
glacial flare
with no corrupted gear equipped im getting a "base corruption" of 4. Where does that come from ?
errant viper
In general, how much out of 10 would you guys rate alchemy trinkets? 😮
strange python
Anyone on that can look at a xanesh log rq?
brittle lantern
@glacial flare do you have the 30 min corruption curse on you?
brittle lantern
Easy peasy
late folio
@hollow stone
arctic walrus
you can link the log here
tropic ocean
@errant viper -2/10
hollow stone
@late folio 😶👋
turbid osprey
whats the best way to play drestagath?
just dps adds and save cds for the 30sec window and dps boss?
real bay
seems the way just boring af
shrewd iron
what should you pop Vendetta on hc Nzoth? Psychus or N'zoth?
strange python
depends what your group needs really. always on nzoth on pull, 2nd time depends if your raid lead's cd assignments
rigid mango
Nzoth
shrewd iron
Ok
crimson palm
If you want logs Psychus. If you want to kill the boss on nzoth
rigid mango
For me I always found that the best way for genuin prog
shrewd iron
and ignore the tentacles right?
rigid mango
I dotted ~ every other with rupt
strange python
i'd put envenoms into tentacles until he has at least 3 stacks
strange python
3 or 4 depending on timings iirc
if you use vendetta on nzoth each burn phase I think 3 every time
rigid mango
I found it a waste to touch them for the most part tbh
Just found clapping psychus to work, 1 env is such a small diff
When it can do a lot more with perma damage increase on psychus, granted you have teh comp that is
We have like 4 dh's blasting down there so it's nto an issue
shrewd iron
hmm alright, well we have one dh lol
strange python
i mean as long as you get out of the psychus realm in time you shouldn't stress too much about it
rigid mango
You should be able to assign some people downthere
strange python
your prio down there without cds won't really make a big diff anyway
shrewd iron
Ok thanks for the input guys 🙂
civic palm
¯_(ツ)_/¯
tropic surge
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
civic palm
You open with MUT anyway, and MA windows are so short.
shrewd iron
but so important
civic palm
Nah.
civic palm
Considering you've basically nothing running for 66% of the crit buffed duration... yeah it's not that important.
waow your 2 Mutilates or 1 Mut and 1 Garrote tick got more of a chance to crit... waow
The Vanish MA's are substantially more important.
storm lodge
yeah because you're packing as many envenoms during that window as possible so its more important right?
im guessing for the opener itself, it just slows it down a bit if you dont start from stleath, not optimal but not super bad
shrewd iron
do any fights w/o MA and you will see a major difference
civic palm
From the initial opener? No you won't.
storm lodge
or vanish isnt
its just the opener where it doesnt matter as much as you think it does
shrewd iron
Ok then I'm with you guys lmao
civic palm
Getting dope MUT+DD crits is dope for burst, but it's short-lived and moreso facilitates having to MUT 1 less time.
storm lodge
even as part of the opener, you;re going to pop vanish as soon as you ven+tb...and there, vanish is critical
sterile bane
Man why are maut so ads
storm lodge
i just find it funny that maut is the one you;re complaining about lol
civic palm
Just stab him O _O
storm lodge
im more pissed about vexiona
sterile bane
Iron skin
storm lodge
and we dont talk about hivemind obviously
sterile bane
And u are the only class can’t do cd
civic palm
o _O
storm lodge
eh
sterile bane
Well not the only class
civic palm
The boss freezes your action_bar and you have to stand there dancing, while everyone else pumps.
What a joke.
hollow stone
Just cloak the reflect. Ez
rigid mango
+1
Just cloak the initial burst window and then feint teh rest
use elusiveness like a true big brainer
and then call for ps
civic palm
CD is there to allow the pump.
hollow stone
Run leeching 
civic palm
+5% leech boooooooooots
civic palm
Nicely done ding dong.
quasi pewter
civic palm
What were you trying to say?
arctic walrus
Saryero what happens if I burn all my cds on Maut during p2? 
quasi pewter
you kill
arctic walrus
who exactly
quasi pewter
yourself
arctic walrus
quasi pewter
do i get banned for dodging now
civic palm
Nay ❌
rigid mango
idk that one is like honestly
rigid mango
Only missfires on the filter
arctic walrus
Nah just a good ol' 
🖋️ on the CF app
civic palm
You need at least 20 filter hits to be taken seriously.
quasi pewter
cf app 
arctic walrus
15.5
quasi pewter
half an hour = 0.3 btw
drifting cloud
🙂
arctic walrus
buncha bullies man
quiet parrot
@rigid mango was it ok to pm you my details? Wasn’t sure if you wanted me to pm you or post it here?
rigid mango
Nah it was fine I just started looking and then went back to the grind, I'll give it a check in a sec
twin kite
Hello, i get Torment in a jar, is it a good Mythic+ trinket? or Font a,d Ashvane are still better?
light pebble
Anyone been using infinite stars in raid after the latest nerf? How good is it now compared to before? Just got a rank 2 IS socketed 445 boots
sand whale
better than nothing is what I say
light pebble
is it still as crazy as it was or not anymore
lusty narwhal
Pins
sand whale
pretty shite multi target
lusty narwhal
crude topaz
Same, consistently 5% in M+ for me.
fresh folio
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
honest needle
why isnt my 455 dagger simming higher since its 15 ilvl for wepaon ? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kszjmGbmLNZhVzyeMdWRgi
any ideas?
hazy iron
willow cedar
AMR or RaidBots?
arctic walrus
Using "or" would imply they are of equal worth and value and each come with their gains and losses
Don't even ever consider amr
willow cedar
Sir yes sir
red plaza
79 at absolute maximum
honest needle
what are most raids allowing u to deal with
royal lantern
Dont go over 40for progression if you wanna be save