If you had more corruption heart wouild probs be nuts
#assassination
knotty pond
sin pawn string pls?
rigid mango
Just use top gear, pawn and stat weights in general are inherently flawed 😄
outer sorrel
Why is everyone running 1 Twist the Knife, when Nothing Personal sims better ?
quartz rune
Nothing personal is only better on pure ST and TTK also helps with adddmg etc
U only want 1 Nothing personal for the energy Regeneration
rigid mango
Wrong, but sure
candid anvil
Are mechagon rings worth farming for m+? I mean, they have pretty bad stats for m+..
scarlet hinge
thanks @rigid mango
candid anvil
1 TTK for envenom buff I'd say, or?
rigid mango
It's because TTK ends up on some really insanely good pieces, the trait itself isn't the best but when paired with power houses like DD + OP on cephalohide and Loyal + OP on blackwater it's just the best there is @quartz rune @outer sorrel
It's a good trait on really good pieces.
nimble mesa
Hey guys, quick question: Is there a clear instruction somewhere on how we deal with the Azshara Font / Coral burst window with the delay introduced at pull of the boss? That thing with holding cooldowns for a few secs and stuff.
rigid mango
NP just lacks per example, a good chest piece as spymasters (dd np whirl) was always worse than cepha/blackwater because it lacks OP.
rigid mango
I think he means like when it's force delayed?
If it's a straight up encounter you just font @ 5 on pull timer and coral as soon as you can
There's no coral stacks to use so you just apply it as soon as
quartz rune
Oh okay thanks @rigid mango so then the pieces in the raid are even more insane for assa huh
rigid mango
Wdym
nimble mesa
Since we have desynched vendetta from coral on pull
rigid mango
and @nimble mesa all the timers should be in the pins
You just tb as per usual and as font comes off CD you channel it directly after whichever TB you just casted times out
candid anvil
Is farming mechagon rings worth for m+? I mean, haste is almost useless..
rigid mango
no
nimble mesa
Okay, so we don't try to line up TB + Coral + Vendetta(+ vanish) ? We just use them on cooldown, only trying to line up in some form Font + Coral + vendetta ?
candid anvil
Great, thanks
rigid mango
Yes, you use TB and as it times you you font
Because at that point it's on ~14 sec cd
And it's ~14sec until you pop vend
I.e it'll come up exactly when you want it to
frigid briar
Isnt corruption hasted rppm?
rigid mango
It is
rigid mango
It isn't useless already but it's just not good enough even with the hasted ppm's I don't think
barren spoke
What does TB mean?
waxen cobalt
toxic blade
rigid mango
toxic blade
barren spoke
Ahh , ty
fallen forge
Why do we want to use vanish with TB and vendetta?
mighty elm
u gna tell me they fixed so u cant Step to the scuffed floating flag aswell
mighty elm
well i cant do it 
mighty elm
fallen forge
Oh okay thanks
strange python
Does 5x fok spam apply too without EB after bote? Or better use finishers, I have 3x ss but zero EB pieces
tropic ocean
Think ur better off building with fok and prio into something with 0 eb
compact zinc
anyone know the pandemic range for garrote and rupture?
iron heath
Hi guys, any feedback here ?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/apiSSx1xAwEc7VMsuro4dt
languid leaf
Get infinite stars r3
main monolith
radiant seal
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
random furnace
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
craggy tide
Is worldvein simbait or it is worth using?
potent raft
someone was saying it's "still bugged" dunno what they refer to but i think something related with allies
faint harness
We had 10 ppl with it during early Azshara prog and would still drop down to 1-3 stacks with a fuckton of shards around me
cold patio
but the high crits comb. with font are feeling realy nice 😄
faint harness
The "fix" back then was to unequip and equip the neck, dunno if it still works
sour citrus
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
tiny finch
hey guys, are the new trinkets simming really bad for you too? or am i doing something wrong?
for ass specifically
potent raft
yes they are bad.
The vita has some merit as it's easier to use than font
jolly fable
so are we gonna be sticking with coral font this tier again, cus i hate that double on use shite
rigid mango
Would more say it's potentially good because of hasted corruption effects
potent raft
the only thing i dont understand is why Heart of Darkness is bis
it's a flat 400 secondary stat increase
rigid mango
because of corruption
potent raft
in the best case scenario your weights are like 7 each
rigid mango
scaling from them
potent raft
so only because of the haste?
potent raft
and stat weights sim dont take those into account?
rigid mango
They should, just not as much
Hasted PPM > the others
But they're still accounted for afaik.
potent raft
well atm a "good geared" rogue has stat weights of about 7 each
(in an optimistic scenario), and say HoD gives 100 of each stat
thats 400*7 = 2800, nowhere close to the 4400 reported in hero dmg
I don't look at herodamge
strange python
Unless yoy have that gear profile
rigid mango
Their gear isn't close to mine so I wont try to compare
strange python
I can tell you this though I got a tier piece with heart of darkness last night and it was a pretty big upgrade
And I have no good corruption - still running void ritual
spark sky
You don't get to 25 corruption with just void ritual though? Or do you have multiple?
cold patio
if u have the 25 minimum corruption and a cloak upgrade will not destroy it^^
strange python
I have a void ritual 3 belt -_-
vivid prism
I got the 460 boe boots with 4% crit damage Corruption. Are they any good to use
arctic socket
Sim 
potent raft
probably not
if it's your only corruption - sure, but it has pretty bad "dps per corruption"
buoyant kraken
About HoD, if i equip af 60 corruption item, then equip cloak and breath of dying so im at 23 corruption
Does it still work? Or is it with reduction you need 25
cold patio
u need 25
heavy haven
So if i got 30 corruption and got 20 resistance i end up on 10 then HoD doesnt work?
steep obsidian
yeah i screwed myself out of being able to use a chest yeasterday because i did my cloak upgrade lol
coz it put me below 25
cold patio
yeah this design is so bad
steep obsidian
i mean it was a problem for one day
but it didnt feel great
i was lucky and have 2 reasonable t2s now
real bay
all in r2+r3 void 
neat remnant
My only corruption piece is the void ritual from the quest and I've cleared normal and heroic
tired galleon
I got avoidance corruption bracers. :(
quasi pewter
any carapace socket daggerers
covert basalt
Should I use Spark of Insperation with BOTE? or does that desync it too much?
acoustic bramble
Hey guys! Does anyone have a nice WA that glows during rupture pandemic? I had one but doesn't work after the patch...
strange python
Build one, one condition set to glow when in pandemic window 🤔
acoustic bramble
Is there such condition to check for pandemic? Because rupture is more complicated because it also depends on CP spent.
strange python
how important is overwhelming power
rigid mango
It's quite good
lyric finch
is assassination punished for using a sword/fist weapon in off hand instead of dagger
urban junco
^
nocturne gate
without dagger
rigid mango
Sub can use them in offhand
nocturne gate
sub can use
rigid mango
But the suffer on ST but folly is broken enough on aoe
lyric finch
ahh, okay thanks
hollow stone
Gotta get dem big double follys for islands as sin 😏
rigid mango
narrow siren
I dont have logs available atm becsuse im not home but i need help with my toon (Patryk on Thrall). Im trying to replace my crap azerite gear with some of the new pieces Ive been getting from emmisarys and such. I know I am supposed to aim for 3x Double Dose and at least 1 Nothing Personal. Ive only had enough luck for one piece with a double dose trait (435 shoulders). However, Im simming a new 450 shoulders piece I got (blood bog shoulderpads) and it sims much higher replacing my double dose/nothing personal with a shrouded suff trait.
Ive been playing around with the sims and all this new gear, and I cannot come up with any better than current sims without shrouded suff traits. I switched to master assasin and re-ran sims without using shrouded suff and the dps just plummets so im forced to switch back to subterfuge as a talent and shrouded traits. Is this what I should be running till I can get about 2x double dose traits? I am trying to find out why Master Assasin + single target traits sim so low compared to Subterfuge+Shrouded. Any help appreciated!
rigid mango
Subt and shrouded is far from bad
If the gear you're replacing is much worse the diff between that setup and the regular master assassin setup isn't big enough
Ilvl is huge
And trust in the sims, if they give you a big increase they make sense 99% of the time.
rigid mango
linkem
arctic walrus
Sounds like an ilvl issue
narrow siren
Ok thank you, so it looks like i will be forced to use 3x shrouded traits. I look at guides and logs and everyone seems to be running master assasin with double dose. Will it be an issue if i lose out on my one and only nothing personal trait even if the sims tell me its fine?
arctic walrus
No wait, yes
worldly trail
im confused
arctic walrus
Yeah exactly
arctic walrus
Sim with sockets
worldly trail
i have not premium is that enough sim with socket normal user ? 😄
rigid mango
dw I'm running the sim atm
worldly trail
thank you man
narrow siren
Ty zine !
rigid mango
hollow stone
430 font vs 445 inkpod on MY SIM, FOR MY CHAR, font wins out by ~300 dps. I still use inkpod for the most part because i despise the gameplay w font + coral. Your font should beat out inkpod at same ilvl
rigid mango
There was something jank with the fact that both had agi gems on them
The sim didn't like it
but
As you can see it's a huge dps upgrade
worldly trail
@rigid mango ty so much dude u are best 😄
rigid mango
agile oar
Hey guys what are your thoughts of worldvein?
rigid mango
Good but situational dependant on boss fights
quasi scroll
interesting essence breakdown per fight
CLF for Wrathion, then Worldvein next couple, then Bote for hivemind
rigid mango
I think the diff is relativly small
WV is the best if you can use it straight up probably
rigid mango
Both it got buffed and clf nerfed
quasi scroll
I worked so hard for that bote I don't wanna take it off
hollow stone
WV has been really good for us this week (us being my guild). We had a number of melee using it at least as a minor (prob 5-6 melee total, maybe more) and im at 4 stacks for basically the while fight. It does require some additional awareness and will not be great on some bosses. But its definitely something youre going to want to include in your sim/talk to your group about
It also feels pretty good to push. And i believe WV mj + gcb + corruptions is a pretty dope combo
Last part’s feely
quasi scroll
Paladin in raid got this Tuesday: https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=172200/skshuul-vaz&bonus=4822:1487
immediately hearthed and cleansed the effect
I wept
With WV on raids do multiple people with it as major coordinate it so they don't all pop it at once?
to try and maximize uptime?
or does that not matter
arctic walrus
Do you space out your font, coral, vendetta, and tb, so you maximize uptime?
quasi scroll
no, but you can only benefit from 4 shards at a time, right?
arctic walrus
It’s independent for everyone’s personal use. No point in using together. Because if there is a push phase that’ll happen naturally anyways
quasi scroll
so if 10 people click it it generates 30 shards at once even though everyone can only benefit from 4
hollow stone
No. We all just popped our mj wv on cd
quasi scroll
ok
hollow stone
Never had an issue with not having 4 shards unless you moved out
quasi scroll
certainly simpler
hollow stone
5-6 melee running at least minor
On pull, its beautiful, theres like 20+ shards lol
arctic walrus
If you have enough people to be running WV as a major, you probably aren’t worried about shard uptime
hollow stone
Yea. Exactly
hollow stone
We had at least 3 running mj and at least 2 running mn
Just make sure you talk to your other homies about it
tired galleon
We had about the same for wv
brisk forge
what is the best use of [Worldvein Resonance]? on cd or? not when i move around like a maniac ofc
brisk forge
so on cd 😛
hollow stone
Yea
tropic ocean
due to natural cd its always paired with vendetta so u are safe there if u use it smart
and depending on ur raid ppl that use it even insane high uptime on high movement fights
wanton pond
how many people in your raid makes loyal to the end worth?
hollow stone
Idk and i wouldnt worry too much about it at this point. I know thats not a great answer, but loyal will be left behind real soon w higher ilvl az options
fickle gale
guys can u tell me , what are the biS Trinkets what u can have for ST.
tired galleon
Depends on your current gear
hollow stone
It definitely depends. But the key ones you want to look out for are coral, gcb, font, deadeye, vita charged whatever (haste raid one)
And a few i cant think of
Cross reference herodmg and bloodmallet
echo jay
Plumage pretty good no?
arctic walrus
On its own sure. When font and coral exist, not that much
quasi scroll
Still worth farming Azhara for foreseeable future?
arctic walrus
If you can somehow get your guild to clear 7/8 just for azshara for a tf roll yeah it is
strange python
humming dragonscale any good for st?
royal lantern
royal lantern
2 yeha
turbid osprey
is worldvein major still bait
?
simming like 1k dps higher for me atm
+3 that is
royal lantern
its good as major now, minor is still slightly simbait, if multiple people use it you wont really have a problem with the spike uptime
turbid osprey
and to use as major you just what, pop it after vend since its duration is 2sec shorter?
then use on cd?
royal lantern
just use it like you used CLF
and then on cd, its only 1min and will be up for your vendetta/vanish window again
sand granite
corrupted items can drop at end of m+?
royal lantern
ye
subtle lodge
Havent played in a year or so, is it still recommended to the essences from EP?
to get^
royal lantern
CLF is still good, but they buffed worldvein by a shitton AND the new essences(reaping flame) are really good too
soooo....its more or less a sim yo self situation
subtle lodge
Oh okay, thankyou!
sweet inlet
How correct is this? seems weird that the dungeonslice sims would have flat vers better than stacking shrouded suffocations
strange python
It’s based off of corruption gear homes
sweet inlet
and strange that echoing blades is so low down
hmm but if i set it to tier 25 shrouded is back to #1 on the sims
the above screenshot was with it set to tier 24
I guess my real question is, is shrouded suffocation/echoing blades stacked still our best choice? (tyranical/fortified)
quiet junco
Any general rules for daggers? More so main hand vs off hand general rules or knowledge? Such as ilvl...or just plug an play
candid jasper
didn't realise force multiplier simmed so low :/
still totem
Anyone else notice problems with getting Infinite Stars to proc as sin? Got a 420 t1 proc, simming higher than 445 w/socket, but after several dummy tests it won’t proc even once
iron plover
FWITW: The tentacle one does proc on dummies though
strange python
@sweet inlet depends if you have access to the last 2 boss azerite or not really
pseudo hamlet
When do we use Worldvein? Before Vendetta+Vanish+TB?
strange python
yeah basically exactly the same as clf opener
pseudo hamlet
ok, thanks 🙂
candid jasper
if using master assassin, it the ravenholdt guide recommends tb before vanish
pseudo hamlet
Oh, didn't know about it.
quiet parrot
For people that have done the raid, what traits do you think are best for The Hivemind?
I was running 3x DD last night, and didnt do so great on that fight.
Im wondering if i should run EB build or just go Outlaw for that one?
Also Vexiona had a fair amount of AoE
worn basin
I played sin for it still, but I stuck with the tank on kazir when they were spread for kicking whatever the cast is called. Two people is enough to get it. Otherwise yea probably just play outlaw, add damage is important there.
runic prairie
Just go outlaw for hivemind I think
quiet parrot
what traits did you run?
rigid mango
quiet parrot
yea i meant to switch to iris
quiet parrot
oh i dont have blood yet
rigid mango
Just pumped the bosses, ignored adds and played the fight like QC.
dark crag
how do you like the fights?
rigid mango
So far all of them are really good
laggy af but I think sin is really potent on all
Shadhar for sure, drest for sure, ilgynoth for sure
Vexiona feels comp based whether you get picked
Doing raden later after re-splitting but it seems obv really insane
Think nzoth for sure has potential for sin
dark crag
carapace was wierd
rigid mango
Carapace idk about how it's balanced and/or how it's gonna play out mythic wise
magic thorn
Are all the new Raid Trinkets Shit or do they just sim bad? I just simmed Droptimizer and every Trinket is a downgrade for me :/
white wyvern
I stopped Mythic raiding at BoD, but did Normal last night for shits. Drest was rollover easy, but seems like it could be a really fun fight on M.
quiet parrot
I think the fights are fun, and most feel Melee friendly which is a lovely change
magic thorn
I mean i have 445 coral+socket and 445 font but i didnt think they would be that bad
rigid mango
Dresst and ilgynoth are gonna be fucking shitshows on mythic
I can't fucking wait
They're perfect edge-of-your-seat last phase shenanigans hyper blaster master 3000 clenching harder than ever before
white wyvern
Yaaas
rigid mango
Aslong as they fix this gaaarbage lag shit maaaan.
But yus, TLDR sin looking just as strong as ever going into the tier unless mythic really fucks something over
dark crag
first pull nzoth normal tentakels die, voids everywhere
white wyvern
Weird. I raided from 6 to like midnight and had 0 lag.
Only time I have had lag was fighting the World Boss in Vale.
When did you raid? Was the surprise server shutdown yesterday to fix lag maybe? Cause I raided after that.
rigid mango
The raid is just poorly optimised and 30 people with 1-3/4 corruption effects that aren't implemented properly and too big zones = playing on what feels like 5k MS on vexiona
It's genuinly terrible.
Like, 5 min ago?
opal minnow
did vex with like 32 people, last phase was a literal slideshow with 4 sec input lag
dark crag
how do you start nzoth? vendetta on psychus?
heavy haven
how good is the mechagon ring with "if you use 3 different spells or..." compared to the one to stand behind?
remote valley
what major should we be using in new raid?
civic palm
@heavy haven Poor IIRC, as it's awkward to use compared to literally just being behind your target.
But better than nothing.
dark crag
the add phase at nzoth....
mossy cradle
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
dry prawn
Hey all -- rogue pest in our guild talks daily about whether he's going to play outlaw or assass in m+ in 8.3. Told him to visit his class discord and do some learning. Is there a general consensus here about if outlaw will stay the preferred rogue m+ spec in high keys (18+)?
dark crag
i should look at a few logs, dont't know when to use cds
white wyvern
Outlaw and Sin are pretty similar in M+ with Outlaw being slightly better. Sin is just much more of a PIA to gear for.
vocal ginkgo
how are the new raid trinkets looking like so far?
rigid mango
Doodie
vocal ginkgo
oof, figured since they are all simming worse than measly 430 coral and font
460 hc trinkets
rigid mango
Probably nerfs or buffs
Dunno yet
But I don't think blizz liks being forced to do m tep for BiS.
urban junco
XD
vocal ginkgo
last patch and raid trinkets are trash wth
candid jasper
CORALLLL
urban junco
Seems an odd choice.
Possible they didn't anticipate last tier's trinkets being so strong.
fading wigeon
Hey guys just getting back to M+.. Is this item level and the dps enough to start 10's this season ?https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vpr3cghPYtAgcNuYhCMAQ3
white wyvern
Yes.
lone junco
@fading wigeon we did a +11 Upper mechagon last night with people around 440-442. So that's an ok ilvl
fading wigeon
Ok perfect thanks @white wyvern @lone junco .
halcyon zealot
sim is telling me to drop like 9% mastery, idk if i like that lol
rigid mango
If it says that's the best
soft warren
is this good at all or how can u sim it
rigid mango
Stick it in raidbots
soft warren
kk
final hull
boys , how should i use this in my rotation (build with toxic blade)
rigid mango
Press it every min
final hull
2nd trinket is coral
final hull
urban junco
Top 4 trinkets all on use. Feelsbad.
bright tusk
I got hc vita-charged titanshard with socket and if fkn sucks..
lusty narwhal
Needs a buff
final hull
yes , with infinite but without he is still the best from my trinkets , he is 4th
lusty narwhal
Itd be dumb if they left it as is
bright tusk
I got shit corruption effects and shit trinket, all other rogues in guild out-dps me. fml
final hull
but i asked how and when should i use it in my rotation ,
lusty narwhal
Thats a shit feel but such is the rng life
final hull
no how should i sim myself
lusty narwhal
Youd have to use them separately
ashen solar
bright tusk
Can literally any itemdrop in 8.3 come with a corruption effect? Or just some specific ones? Because I need a decent frickin effect..
urban junco
ffs
rigid mango
WQ item my dude
final hull
random
urban junco
This stuff is making me sad to look at.
final hull
i mean how to combinate it with my spells , just like azshara+ coral
lusty narwhal
You cant
final hull
they have very good synergy with timer on vendetta
lusty narwhal
It doesnt last long enough lol
rigid mango
Yes but coral is 20 sec long
And the trinket lockout is, you guessed it, 20 sec long
and vend is what, 20 sec long?
i.e gcb never fits
lusty narwhal
Coral easy
onyx crane
galecaller works nice with worldvein tbh
onyx crane
coral seems useless on n'zoth tho all those stupid tentacles...
final hull
hmm , yes , i m watching on it and it s rreally interesting
edgy fulcrum
Does EP make corruption do more damage?
rigid mango
EP is whitelisted so no
pliant snow
How high are you guys siming atm?
onyx crane
depends on what type of sim
pliant snow
ST
vital haven
like 56k in st
rigid mango
61
vital haven
no corruption btw
onyx crane
at ilvl?
rigid mango
454.69
delicate fern
when should i use Worldvein Resonance in my rotation?
pliant snow
I got corruption +6% and +9% more crit
And +4% crit dmg sadly only siming around 56k in st i need better dagger i guess
Kinda fun to play with avarage 70% crit
onyx crane
I got a wrist with star on it from WQ but gives me 30 corruption
pliant snow
23 is easy to handle
rigid mango
39 or less is what you want
onyx crane
I also got the dagger from carapace should I unccorput it for Ilvl/stats?
vital haven
the mind flay one?
pliant snow
Stars
onyx crane
yeah
heavy haven
why would u uncorrupt it?
rigid mango
If you stay under 40
You're gucci
No reson to cleanse items if you're under that threshold
vital haven
what lkevel is your cloak?
vital haven
go sim it and see what is better under 40 corruption
i wouldnt uncorrupt anyuthing right now because who knows what blizz might change
onyx crane
IS is by far better proc atm
I do need some new trinkets i have gale caller at 440, hc coral, alchemist stone and a hc fond of power but 2x use trinkets make fights too much of a hassle tbh
hushed marlin
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
dark crag
0 corrupted pieces so far. Only the bracers and some leftover crit proc shit from normal. Good start
honest needle
IS ANY 1 ELSE SIMMING MASTERY HIGHER CAUSE mastery is simming highers fot me
cobalt pelican
I DON'T KNOW
PROBABLY NOT HASTE IS BEST FOR MOST PEOPLE CURRENTLY DUE IF THEY ARE WEARING LOTS OF CORRUPTION GEAR but it's not unlikely to have mastery if you do not have corruption gear probably
vital haven
@honest needle id assume if you were using loyal to the end before and no longer are for mastery to sim higher
i went from like 50% mastery to like 38%
cobalt wedge
anyone tried this so far?
on raidbots i can't find any option to sim with the 1k agi boost
strange python
well the void charged is trash so you probably won't use the set anyway
unless they change something
lusty narwhal
Theres no way that bonus is worth it
graceful musk
is the ravenholdt guide more updated than the wowhead one ?
daring cave
Hows everyone handling Vexiona and the adds?. just apply Rup to all and repeat? and should i run CT for this fight?
rigid mango
@graceful musk wowhead probably a bit better, so is icyveins
@daring cave ignore them or spread a couple ruptures
graceful musk
Thought icy veins was pretty bad
daring cave
ok thats what i figured
graceful musk
or was it noxxic ?
graceful musk
oh I see
short token
is worldvein really the major essence play right now?
it's simming way higher than anything else
also, people running worldvein do you do anything special with it or just use it on cd
regal hamlet
tried it last night, seemed great when there isnt a ton of movement. used it on cd, every other one lines up with vendetta obviously
short token
awesome, thanks
neat remnant
It's really strong now
snow storm
is it worth it when pugging and you dont know if others are using it?
versed mica
For me, condensed is ever so slightly better if I don't have at least 2 people with WV
signal crag
anyone using hidden blades for fury of n'zoth?
vast forum
a guildie is wearing 420 gloves with an infinite star and it's a 3k dps upgrade
proud salmon
when do you pop worldvein resonance?
just before vendetta or do you track the amount of the thingies up
gleaming sorrel
on cd
when you use it it automatically puts down 3 shards
According to herodamage, bis is 2x double dose, 2x heart of darkness, 1x blightborne infusion and 1x ttk, can anyone confirm?
drifting cloud
you have dungeon slice on
halcyon zealot
what are the 3 main dungeons we wanna use PB > CT? drawing a complete blank
cobalt pelican
where are the environments you think slightly more single target is better than slightly more aoe
drifting cloud
toxic green people
drifting cloud
I dont even know which ones they are even tho Ive read it 100 times
temple, kr and 1 more right
cobalt pelican
siege prolly
drifting cloud
is siege just because of the aoe dude
cobalt pelican
kinda yeah, the entire first half of the dungeon is just a ton of baby pulls
and then spotter pulls
rigid mango
Siege is just fucking like
Packs of 2-3 big things and shitter 200k hp stuff
That a bleed like ct isn't efficient against
At the end of the day most packs in siege boil down to those smaller groups
narrow comet
for the leathworking pants i went with crit/haste but how much haste should i aim for because raidbots said stick some vers gem in and i got a pair of crit/ver pants and crit/vers boots, or keep rolling for crit/haste?
cobalt pelican
you're not going to get some like
god roll as assassination
just roll a couple times till you get something that looks pretty like it has 111 of a stat or something and then be like dam cool
you can gear compare a few different affixed legs if you want but generally i'd just aim for something crit heavy since it's versatile
rigid mango
I just cba caring until maxed out tbh
cobalt pelican
like you can use it in m+ and for outlaw and whatever
rigid mango
I'll probs just get crit mast and be happy
drifting cloud
ye ye get a high mastery one for outlaw
rigid mango
Honestly i've gotta go through my sim history today
narrow comet
i dont play outlaw 😛
rigid mango
I've gone up like 6-7k dps
cobalt pelican
well, crit mast would be okay too then cause it'd be useful for raid and m+
rigid mango
And my stats have flipped like 5 times
cobalt pelican
if you REALLY w ant to raid minmax idk gear compare a like 10 pairs and see what's up but it's going to be +/-100 between them all and it'll swing after you change your other gear
drifting cloud
imagine looting stuff
narrow comet
alright cheers
drifting cloud
atleast I got a sell run so I can coin carapce twice this week
rigid mango
Nah that's the thing, I don't 
Other rogue has traded me 2 socketed corruption pieces
And a warlock 1 too
rigid mango
It's always PL but loot council ye
Luckily he had gotten all the right pieces so he could trade what he got 
drifting cloud
🙂
I hope it actually drops at a decent enough frequency that we can choose from it in like a 2 resets or something
rigid mango
Yeh idk, I've got 3 pieces with giga low corr on them
narrow comet
compare says stick with crit/vers, never used that option, ty learned something again 🙂
sudden ravine
wew lads look at those corruption nerfs
you can stop farming 415 blues for infinite stars now
drifting cloud
ill still take EV
near coyote
Worldvein sims 400 less than Life force, but it feels so much better to play with, i almost just want to use it instead lol
daring cave
is Dungeon slice ok to use for M+?
slow heath
hey all whats our best battle pot for raiding? been getting conflicting opinions from people.
icy ember
yo @rigid mango does have two different versions of heart of darkness on your azerite stack?
drifting cloud
why wouldnt they
cobalt pelican
they do indeedy
sudden ravine
I hope they make it to where we want to use Vita and Void together
what's the point of having a trinket set if it's just garbage together
next solar
onyx hedge
solid sim already
iron plover
tentacle, stars, and gushing wound got hot fixed but tentacle was still 10% of my damage on ra-den
pearl pagoda
anyone having issues on nzoth where their body isnt showing?
strange python
The nerf is nothing and it's still all laughable damage
They will nerf at least 3 more times
iron plover
the mind flay is ticking for 1k less than it was yesterday? i can't prove that
timber meadow
is there a resource that shows how the craftable gear stacks up
tryna figure out what i wanna commit to
strange python
What do you think about assa/rogues in wf race? I think there will be zero rogues 👌
strange python
My dmg increase with 3x DD from subf to master is only 500 dps, guess it's really because I don't have font
It's like with coral, do mythic NY trinkets even replace 445 coral?
hidden bay
Nope
strange python
Was obvious
young portal
Nah, coral is bonkers
young portal
And this tier currently the trinkets are ass
random comet
i looted normal vita and void on the first clear.
And they're not good even as a set u.u
strange python
Well so less bosses to bonus roll on
icy ember
so using worldvein major (i haven't used this before), does it count ALL of OTHER people's shards as your own for the 18 seconds and 300%?
opal minnow
you only benefit from up to 4 shards at a time, but who they come from doesn't matter so long as you're in range of them.
icy ember
why does raidbots list 10 worldveins
arctic walrus
replaces clf
icy ember
oh thats good, it was feelin awkward not poppin at as i did w/clf
rancid spade
i miss the titanforged now
grizzled jay
Yeah lol feels stupid for someone to do so much more dps cause of pure luck.
supple pelican
Sin stat weights from raidbots seem weird.
Weapon DPS
13.58
Mastery
5.96
Critical Strike
5.20
Versatility
5.10
Haste
4.58
Agility
2.76
Off Hand Weapon DPS
1.54
supple pelican
yeah man its just weird playing with 14% haste
rigid mango
That does seem low
supple pelican
I was running 34% crit 19% haste
felt ok
but 32% crit 14%haste is just weird for mastery
rigid mango
Link it if u want me to go through it
but like, I really don't feel my stats fluxuating too much when I play
rigid mango
There's way too much scuffed shit
strange python
I simed my stat weights for curiosity and crit is lowest, yet I only have like 26% crit since haste and mastery is weighted so high, why is that now
rigid mango
Lucid and iris obv kick haste value down
supple pelican
you fucking slowfall all over the place
rigid mango
and 3 op
So you really have a lot of haste
For some reason WV loves mastery, I'm unsure if it's just people generally lack mastery or it "wants" mastery somehow
supple pelican
i always forget that FI gives haste
royal beacon
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/h5x5Yhs33Kdr4mL3z2wmrz
hey could some experienced rogue comment on my stat weights i think i mistakes smth numbers looks low to me compared to friend who is lower ilvl and do 49k on ret paly when sim
do i need to change something or push some stats up
i am very new to rogue and any help are welcome
drifting cloud
you probably have the worst possible chest equipped
thats almost not an azerite piece its that bad
im pretty sure a 415 could beat it
royal beacon
😮 yeah not happy with it either gonna change asap
also mb coral drop will help alot
i see everyone use it
what i value more for trait SS or DD when raiding ?
drifting cloud
SS is not a good st trait
its middle tier at best, when you get better gear you will have 0 ss and MA instead of subt talent
faint harness
its decent tbh
drifting cloud
billions of logs disagree
except some 1min speed kills
also you know sims and stuff
royal beacon
so stack DD and Overwhelming Power as trait and switch to MA right ?
drifting cloud
just sims all your azerite traits with both talents and use whatever sims highest
royal beacon
okay thx
drifting cloud
but yeah as soon as there is more than 1 target ss gains alot of value
royal beacon
there are a lot of boss fights with adds in new raid i think
glacial steppe
Adds died way to fast. Literally more downtime than anything else
I just afk'd after a while lol
harsh sphinx
i afkd as well
faint harness
on normal its shit
verbal mantle
same
faint harness
on heroic it becomes much better
glacial steppe
Not really, I had more downtime than anything else because adds died almost the instant they spawned
faint harness
you can technically always have something to fight on heroic
theres no way you kill all of the adds instantly on heroic
glacial steppe
and cba to walk across the whole room to do 1 rupture and 1 env
idk what is their lifepool on hc, like 8m or so?
rigid mango
idk alwyas had shit on hc
but also, who cares about normal and hc bosses
When they are complete bosses on mythic
faint harness
yea but i also hated the boss on normal
but it was fun on heroic
just sayn
its not all terrible you guys
faint harness
yea i dont like fights where the only target disappears for 20 seconds and dont give us anything difficult to deal with
the mechanic he does is a joke
so you're just sitting there waiting
glacial steppe
yes, and downtime feels especially bad as melee
lone mirage
Idk what you think about the new raid guys but i find it boring as assa, many target to kill fast, instant dmg are better i think
faint harness
havent played much assassination yet
rigid mango
Caraapce is the first fight I feel in deep water potentially
glacial steppe
I played assa on every boss except hivemind, carapace and vexiona
lone mirage
So im bad lol i pull less dps than eternal palace
shut garnet
yep and even then, prio damage depending on comp could be super valuable
real bay
carapace triple EB kekw
shrewd night
Carapace, the fight where you will see who is a filthy padder and who actually does their job
quasi scroll
Anybody know how to make this chart bigger or show values on tooltip?
Trying to see how many worldvein shards I had on me
which is what I think this is?
warm parcel
The height is the amount of stacks?
remote valley
Any solid trinkets from new raid for ST?
warm parcel
Not until they buff them
faint harness
next week i think we might see a buff to nyalotha trinkets and nerf to EP trinkets
vestal wren
i expect a nerf to old trinkets too
faint harness
the tormented jar trinket is decent enough right?
jaunty arrow
Looks good but u know sim it 😃 coral font still op
quasi pewter
tormented jar is bad for single target
jaunty arrow
Raden trinkets might be good enought, but frst we need nerf coral and font
potent raft
Do you think they'll nerf font and coral?
If they do m+ or pvp trinkets will probably become bis
jaunty arrow
Not sure if bis, but i dont like to use same trinkets for two tiers.
Its like u can loot new shiny cool trinkets but u know what, we dont want u to use it 🤔
open reef
hello - what potions would you recommend to use at raids and/or M+ ?
unbrifled fury or something else ?
jaunty arrow
Raid unb,fury and for m+ agi
vernal walrus
what is unb¿
jaunty arrow
Unbridled fury
vernal walrus
thx
runic tinsel
Kinda new to assa, after the opener when i vanish, I should use Mutilate from vanish right? (With master assa talent)
or is it envenom?
young portal
Envenom from vanish
runic tinsel
alright, ty 🙂
its just the opener that is kinda complicated right? other than that its just to keep dots up and pool energy for TB window right?
young portal
Opener can be a bit complex if you're new yeah, but sin is a fairly basic spec. Planning is key
runic tinsel
yeah, when i tried it out i was abit off on TB pooling. but itll get better soon
rigid mango
Pooling as a whole isn't super impactful
runic tinsel
really? i though 3x envenom during TB was kinda big?
rigid mango
It's not meaningless but it's far from make or break
runic tinsel
During AoE is it just rupture everything and spam FoK? excess CP into envenom?
oh i see 🙂
rigid mango
Having good uptimes, using stuff on cd etc is bigger
Depends on the situation, if your damage is irrelevant on the adds you never fok
You can spread ruptures a bit here and there though, having a rupture up on lets say the big add on vexiona that's gonna be up for a while is better than bleeding something that doesn't matter like small shit on hivemind
Sin is really just a tunnel boss where you slam your stuff into the boss for the most part, it's more efficient as a raid to let others cleave stuff, in general target swapping on sin is less efficient than most.
runic tinsel
yeah, as soon as i get some more azerite gear im gonna get a working outlaw spec for those situations. but for now assa will have to do for everything.
What im most concerned about is M+ tbh. How does assa work in those?
rigid mango
Assa is not far from outlaw
rigid mango
Assa is the best of the rest, the only other specs that are better are dh/outlaw
But since you see people like seliathan ending rank 5 last season it's obv not big diff.
runic tinsel
Thats good enough for me then. atleast for a while.
But do i just spread ruptures on M+ trash and try get a SS azerite piece and go subterfuge to rupture opener? then just spam FoK and envenom until dead?
sterile chasm
You put 3 garotes
runic tinsel
yeah
runic tinsel
thats it? no ruptures for energy regen? O_O
sterile chasm
In big groups yes in groups around 4 minions put rupture on everything
runic tinsel
I see 🙂 that sounds insanely easy tbh
sterile chasm
This is something you will just feel
rigid mango
No?
sterile chasm
Ofc yes in big groups
- 10 mobs
I just put 3x garrotes maybe 1 rupture and spam fok
Blood
rigid mango
You don't "maybe"
sterile chasm
And 300-400k dps
rigid mango
You don't "feel"
There's objectivly simple, correct things to do
The most impactful trait atm I'd still probably say is shrouded, you NEED atleast one and I'd say you still want 3 as a hard prio.
sterile chasm
3x ss 3x Eb ans gucci
rigid mango
Yeah lemme just get 3 specific pieces real quick
You open with 3 garrotes, CT if you have CT, build with fok and rupture, granted you have blood you'll constantly be getting enough haste from the minor to play around 4 bleeds
You build with fok at 2-3+ targets, you ignore finishers at caps like 6t 3 EB, 8t 2 EB, 10t 1 EB and just fok instead as it's the best damage
runic tinsel
oh i see 🙂 i pieces with SS in my bag, but only one with EB. and the other trait on the EB one is DD
rigid mango
DD is pretty much the worst trait for m+ there is.
runic tinsel
yeah, the other trait on it is Incite the pack (mastery proc)
probably take that one instead?
rigid mango
Probs yeah
bright tusk
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
royal beacon
so is 3 SS > 3 EB for M+ or ?
rigid mango
Yes but optimall both
vast forum
why not both?
rigid mango
We'll see how this season moves forwards but I don't expect any big shifts
spark sky
Which fights do you want to wear EB for some extra add damage?
rigid mango
none
inner pier
play 3x EB on wrathion and get your rank 1 log, ez clap
don't forget to ask your guildies not to clear the pillars as well
shrewd night
Just perma fok on carapace.
rigid mango
inner pier
btw, now that the corruption doesn't scale with versa i can go back to my old stat weights i guess. Is raidbots updated yet?
inner pier
i think there was additional dmg on them with versa scaling tho
inner pier
like I could see the dmg difference on a piece when i equipped more versa
rigid mango
You can't anymore?
faint harness
mage friend said his tentacle boy did 20k normal tics yesterday, 18k today but is always only 18k. Yesterday it could go up to 50k tics during font of power and cds
inner pier
and now it doesnt change so i'd assume that the only thing that actually affects infinite stars is corruption rank, item lvl and versa as in % overall dmg increase
rigid mango
Interesting.
faint harness
would be like the only item-procs in the game not affected by vers
weird decision
would have been nice with a not-so-vague post by blizzard
inner pier
this is on 1.15/0.58 % vers
white wyvern
faint harness
hit a dummy
inner pier
okay so:
on 14% versa it critted for 87k
on 1% versa it critted for 75k
so seems to me that the only dmg increase from versa now is the flat dmg increase we get from that stat
i am pretty sure it used to be this
faint harness
yes
why does this always happen tho? that blizz writes these vague posts without any numbers
they know what kind of game they're running these days, its all about the numbers
and they dont post em
white wyvern
because they don't even know the numbers.
white wyvern
It was /s.
faint harness
not crazy enough to be obvious sarcasm
white wyvern
I am no theory crafter and IDK if what they said actually lines up with what the nerf is, but the post is actually pretty clear. Those corruption effects no longer scale with AP and SP.
faint harness
Yes I know what that means by simply reading it. I have no clue how it impacts actual dmg of the thing tho
white wyvern
Garo literally posted the tooltip like 10 messages ago. Delete the part with SP and AP and you'll be in the ballpark.
faint harness
But they replaced it with ilvl scaling
How are they doing that? Just replace AP with ilvl?
white wyvern
ok true. You got me. I guess just wait for sims like everyone else.
faint harness
Yep i'm waiting
rigid mango
Just emphasises my prev thoughts of EV being BiS anyways tbh
faint harness
yep
white wyvern
Yeah I kinda expected that to be included in nerfs. 
rigid mango
Yus.
dark crag
What's ev?
vast forum
echoing void
dark crag
What's echoing void? How do i get corrupted items?
rigid mango
inner pier
i wish i got that :/
but some other player whose name i shall not mention took it from me
rigid mango
Yeah man fuck that dude
white wyvern
Voldemort?
inner pier
imagine being the rogue who gears other rogues 
rigid mango
inner pier
well, with my luck i will get a few more of those today probably xD
rigid mango
inner pier
hopefully from pvp,
quasi scroll
For a fight with lots of adds do you generally fok to 4cp->envenom?
in which case something like double dose is less useful?
thinking about vexiona
rigid mango
You pretty much full ignore adds in general
vast forum
play EB then
quasi scroll
ah, to be in a guild where people understood that
then again on vexiona there's a lot of time where boss is flying around so there's nothing to do except adds
faint harness
you focus the main target
delicate fern
when your pooling waiting for energy, how much energy are people waiting for before casting anything ?
honest vessel
ascendant has way more hp than the others anyway
faint harness
ye
quasi scroll
true
honest vessel
@delicate fern 120 is a good marker, but you can get away with less sometimes, but you wouldnt hold tb during that time
basically, if youre out of tb, dont overcap, but dont hit anything else
permitting keep bleeds up
delicate fern
tb?
honest vessel
toxic blade
delicate fern
right ok im with ya so if im out of energy and i have tb on hold and bleeds still ticking just wait?
rigid mango
Nah TB on CD
honest vessel
^
that should be a very rare situation if you are pooling correctly in between tb windows
delicate fern
somone give me a brief rotation for single target? i can burst like 80k but im struggling with energy tbh, whats a good haste cap?
rigid mango
There's no haste cap
Just keep bleeds up, TB on CD and try to fit envenoms in there
Reapply within pandemic
neat remnant
Our APM is really quite low. It can feel like you aren't pressing any buttons and that's okay as long as you don't cap
delicate fern
ok that makes sense, but i lack damage sometimes lack of energy gains unless im being impatient and not auto attacking enough
dark crag
Raid blessed me with versa/mastery loot. Haste is down to an all-time low
rigid mango
Both are really good.
hybrid magnet
a ok
cinder nymph
Is anyone else using mechagon trinket for nzoth? Is it worth?
neat remnant
We did it for one pull and decided it wasn't worth it because we didn't have problems with the psychus. I used font/coral and treated coral as you would for m+ rather than raid
strange python
Does it matter when I have the carapace dagger in OH? For the corruption
hollow junco
no.
strange python
Nvm just simmed it
Got wrathion H dagger and carapace N dagger, now pretty much set on weapons for a bit
cinder nymph
@neat remnant thanks for the feedback
neat remnant
Np, coral the psychus when he spawns then font right before he dies. Then do mad damage to nzoth for his burst phase
Then cry that you set it all up but mages are still too op
sinful tangle
Should I refresh ruptures outside of pandemic range to get a clean TB window or should I use a 1-2cp Rupture after TB just to refresh inside pandemic and then reapply the 4-5cp rupture when it it comes back around?
neon sedge
any ones stat weights look different
mas / vers
maybe my crit and haste are to high
sacred hatch
neat remnant
My vers is very low but I have zero corruption. It's possible the changes haven't been implemented into simc yet. Corruption up until last night scaled off of vers, now it's just ilvl. Mastery is a big pumper right now though
And world vein is very strong now if you can keep it up and people are using it. It's generally better than CLF in most of nyalotha
And by my vers is very low I mean its still just above agi and I have 0 vers. Everything else is much higher weights
neon sedge
neat remnant
Again, that was changed last night with a hotfix and I don't think it's been implemented into simc yet
opal minnow
For some corruptions yes
lime geyser
Anyone know if you had two corrupted pieces with the same effect, say VE rank 2 on both, do you wear both? Do they stack?
EV*
unborn barn
I only have 1 SS trait and garrote is by FAR my top damage in dungeons, even with 3x EB its still only 3% of my damage
hmmm...
Did they nerf EB somehow? Season 2 was the last time I played rogue. I guess it might have been all the reaping packs
royal lantern
are you actually using FoK?
and dont forget that EB also buffs FoK dmg
and garrote tends too be your top dmg in most dungeons cus of bossfights etc....
white wyvern
Yeah, but FoK/EB should still be WAY more than 3%.
unborn barn
fok+eb is about 10%
royal lantern
ye ofc
unborn barn
is garrote top damage even without any ss traits?
ripe gulch
i was asking in general
i have too many rings
cant sim all of them at the same time
sucks 😦
strange python
@unborn barn Boralus specifically isn't great for EB due to having a lot of focus targets, especially during bolstering. I usually don't run even any EB traits there.
Garotte damage will also be way higher percentage wise in lower keys; when doing 6 speeds for gear atm it does around 40% of my total damage with 3x SS.
unborn barn
30% of my damage with 1x SS
strange python
30% of what overall?
strange python
Yes but what's your overall?
unborn barn
you want a damage number?I'm confused 😦
rigid mango
Who cares about the dmg number lol
unborn barn
Well do you understand what peri is asking ? xD
rigid mango
A pointless question
strange python
Just saying that if it's 30% of a low overall then your issue is likely not using other abilities enough, since 30% with only 1 trait sounds like a lot
opal minnow
Or small pulls in a 6 and everything dies before he can fok
opal minnow
^
unborn barn
I see, makes sense
night vale
You can also multidot a lot of the boss fights too which increase the garotte %
hollow stone
Wait, g does more relative dmg when every g is 3ss g and the mobs die before it expires?!
unborn barn
siege has a lot of weak enemies too that die extra quick
hollow stone
😏
strange python
I mean yeah that's literally what I said earlier
rigid mango
Idk seems like quite pointless metrics to try to gauge anything
wide ridge
holy shit a 420 first mate's spyglass is simming higher than a 460 writhing segment of drest'agath
XD
unborn barn
They might buff the trinkets, keep it around for later skaeld
hollow stone
When you can do 6s w no traits and no essences and still time them, yea. Its kinda pointless
wide ridge
@unborn barn will do! thanks for the advice
unborn barn
I think I just had a distorted image of how fucking OP Echoing blades was
unborn barn
more of a sustained type of dps
rigid mango
It's never been amazing but it is good.
royal lantern
be a orange name
strange python
Ra-den helmet is super good too
hollow stone
amazing
opal minnow
Ngl not having np feels pretty bad right now.
unborn barn
first one is, quoting brah "giga-value"
cobalt pelican
480 goggles are like 1k better for me than raden helm
mythic goggles would be better than the raden helm even without the +5
royal lantern
i didnt use blightborn for ages now cus of having 1NP 
vestal wren
Np is still not worth stacking or?
cobalt pelican
prolly will get a little closer after corruption changes
rigid mango
No fuu
cobalt pelican
for prog i think it is, for sim numbers not really