Would rather have EV than IS with most fights having even 1 additional target, makes IS drop in value a lot doesn't it?
#assassination
peak surge
cobalt pelican
it makes it take longer to ramp up yea
which considering half of the ads in this raid just fall over then respawn over and over again
is kinda problematic
it's st ill good enough that i think it's my second target after ev3+statproc1
peak surge
Yeah. Think EV will be the practical play . Ev + stat + gushing wound or whatever.
robust gull
how about twilight devastation for fights like hivemind
cobalt pelican
it's like.. kinda bady
you'd need it to like
proc on a mass grip or something
cause the scarabs fixate and run around like crazy and the other ones are in the air eating ass
thick halo
Is [condensed life force] NOT the best major trait or am I missing something
red plaza
CLF is an essence
rigid mango
Whatever sims best fam
frigid sleet
I'm a bit confused about how am I supposed to play echoing void r3 which cost 60 corrup with my r6 cloak ..
red plaza
play with spark or breath for more res and stay out of pools and don't get it?
soft shale
you get rank 7 cloak when doing major invasion on wednesday
pliant apex
if dont have condensed life force, blood of enemy is rank 3 is fine for mythic raids and m+ right?
quasi pewter
its bis for m+
and almost as good/sometimes better than clf for raid fights
so not having clf is not a big deal at all
fading wigeon
So I'm reading the new raid trinkets sucks for us
What if I missed the last raids, how do I make up? Mythic + trinkets?
cobalt pelican
go raid the last raid
strange python
Unless they change tuning you'll want at least coral
cobalt pelican
if that's not an option at all you'd probably end up playing some mess like wrathion+jar or one of them + plumage
little sandal
its this tuesday 21 we geting 470 ilvl or 440
pliant apex
do most ppl have rank 4 blood of enemy
quartz rune
440 ichigo
little sandal
ugh ok ty
rigid mango
Most people don't.
tropic ocean
@robust gull i got twilight its non comparable to proc rate and dmg of ev
cobalt pelican
it's the only one that scales linearly with target count though right
tropic ocean
idk
cobalt pelican
like ev splits damage, but twilight devastation just beams everything
it just hits way less in general
so you'd need like
509135091501 mobs for twilight to be good
tropic ocean
when I used it in reclear it did so little dmg
that I switched back to tidal bracer
robust gull
alright, i was just watching some clips of people in m+ doing absolutely nutty damage
obviously m+ isnt raids, but the damage seemed crazy
really i was only thinking about it for a fight like hivemind with a bunch of adds
real bay
EV would be way op if it didnt split
minor thicket
If I’m running master assassin in raid, is it still beneficial to use BOTE as my major?
I’m conflicted because I won’t be doing aoe
So I’m thinking CLF would be better
cobalt pelican
master assassin has more synergy with bote than like.. anti synergy
rigid mango
Blood is great for ST.
minor thicket
Ah ok
cobalt pelican
you'll prolly overcap past 100% crit but 25% crit damage on both of those hits is go0od
minor thicket
I know it’s great when I play outlaw for m+
minor thicket
Yea I do sim. But I also read and read some conflicting stuff
rigid mango
In here or in general
minor thicket
So than for ST with master As do I fit my BOTE proc within my vandetta?
In general
Saw it on icy veins and method
night vale
Yeah I noticed at the start of the vision like as soon as I run in I get destealthed? I thought it was just me?
Maybe only with subterfuge? And not with MA?
I’ve not heard anything tho
strange python
People say it's intended lulw
Other say they don't get destealthed
I am surely get destealthed every 10 seconds out of nowwhere
torn bear
Yeah same here happens to me all run, the druid I run with has no problems.
strange python
I don't have any corruption items on me
ashen solar
it was talked about earlier in this discord
it's from subterfuge
subterfuge is just memeing
likely a bug
strange python
Well my only good pieces are SS
night vale
Yeah presumed it was subterfuge. Damn.... maybe it will get fixed as quickly as the azshara belt knocking me out of stealth
😂
unkempt solstice
soloing on rogue is rediculusly hard
strange python
Thought it was intended, so I always waited before I got destealthed LULW
Could have done easy runs
It's like artificial hard mode
Fuxking blizzard
unkempt solstice
I can't solo thrall at 402 ilvl
wasted a frezkin vessel too
he melees to freakin hard
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
sterile ocean
you sure your not getting hit by his mechanics?
strange python
Pls
idle ember
That sub bug explains a lot, kept getting seen by the blobs before the two guards as sub, but never had an issue in stormwind PTR as MA. I thought maybe they had a dmg aura. Switched to outlaw and pulled the entire first area at once so I wouldn't have noticed.
strange python
Go spec sub and run a vision
Hard mode
You getdestealthed every 10 seconds or so , I did 4 visiobs so far
Every vision
unkempt solstice
No, his mechanics are easy to avoid, his normal melee is killing me.
I just need better gear, it's wasting one of the vessels that I'm pissed about.
strange python
Blizzards way to force you play outlaw lul
unkempt solstice
soloing anything as assassination seems abnormally difficult.
sterile ocean
its not really
unkempt solstice
if you can't stun it's like a death sentence.
sterile ocean
i soloed thrall a few times and dident have a prob
idle ember
evasion, health pot, etc? use drums? I'm 448 switched to ss and exsang for fun on the PTR and blowing all consumables, they wouldnt last 12 seconds. Forgot all abut PP minor also.
unkempt solstice
I'm gonna haveta flask, and make sure i have health pot and drums, just doing it on DH was EASY.
cobalt pelican
the bug wasn't occuring on ptr cause the 'bloodthirsty' madness wasn't active and that's got the bad interaction with subterfuge, i think they rotate
should get fixed at some point
but for now it won't happen after reset in sw, and this week shouldn't happen in any of the lost or corrupted zones
brave vector
I'm having a much easier time as sin than outlaw and I'm 440+ with both of them, using my m+ setup 3 ss, 2 eb, ttk with BotE, lucid, VoP minors
Literally blasting through all the mandatory trash and minibosses
And thrall
unkempt solstice
I don't have VoP yet, essenses not being account wide sucks, since there such a core mechanic.
cobalt pelican
but if you're clearing anything at all on the way outlaw is better probably
unkempt solstice
I'm just gonna save my vessels till after first raid week, probably, think it'll be safer.
it's not like you can't catch up
unkempt solstice
wish the items you can make on mechagon where Account Bound.
working on it. just got the first conquest weapon
cobalt pelican
hopefully i know enough about stormwind side wing mobs on weds that i can do my visions without inting
unkempt solstice
I'm not even sure what azerite to get, honestly.
looks like you want 3x EB, 3x DD and 3x OP.
brave vector
No
ashen solar
woah wtf
unkempt solstice
but not sure on that and the icy viens guide is wierd
ashen solar
3x eb is aoe only lmao
unkempt solstice
I know, for M+ trash
brave vector
For visions I've yet to try anything over my SS, eb, ttk setup, dropping 1 eb for NP is probably the play though if you're trying to optimize
Maybe even more NP, 100% feelycraft though don't quote me
rigid mango
Just swap gear inside 
I play 3 eb 2 ttk 1 ss for trash and 3 ss 1 ttk np bbi for bosses
unkempt solstice
ss = shrounded, what's eb and ttk again?
brave vector
Echoing blades and twist the knife
unkempt solstice
bbi is what?
rigid mango
Blightborne infusion
quasi pewter
good to know
rigid mango
Trying to atleast, and it feels like there's a diff
quasi pewter
quasi pewter
thought it was like m+
rigid mango
Yeah I mean I don't focus in the visions that's the thing
I don't pay attention to anything
idk how much diff it'd make anyways
Fights are like 20 second tops either way
brave vector
Eh I mean I've only done solos and the bosses don't have that much health, but the inclusion of NP wouldn't hurt to optimize runs
Especially in lost areas
rigid mango
Just depends a bit on what your end goal is when you're playing solo
Stack chests or clear trash too
Just another reason I think group is better
brave vector
Just been clearing valley of wisdom and spirits and grabbing whatever chests along the way
rigid mango
Yuh already been 5 chest solo run as sin so
pliant apex
im confused, im not using ss, i run master assasin, should i see rotation for 'no ss powers for toxic blade' or 'master assasin talented'
since both situations are true in my caser
this is the guide linked in this channel
brave vector
Follow the talented for MA
pliant apex
ok, so do not open with garrote then
brave vector
No
rigid mango
openers are in pins too
brave vector
While using MA you want to maximize muts/envenoms while in the ma window
So with the MA opener you'll see that you fit 2 muts in
rigid mango
He posted a pic of it on twitter fam
pliant apex
i want to run MA if i dont have ss righ t
rigid mango
Yus.
pliant apex
fuck man, MA rotation is complicated 😦
pliant apex
yea.. thats gun take some gettin used to
pliant apex
then envenom after vanish instead garrote haha
brave vector
Indeed
rigid mango
If anything it's simpler
urban junco
I prefer the MA opener. I used to hate it. Learned to love it.
hallow coyote
Yeah MA+TB is so much easier than Subterfuge+Exsanguinate
brave vector
I deleted my DD pieces
ashen solar
shut garnet
anyone got a link to the guy's twitter
rigid mango
manic cairn
!weakaura
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
unkempt solstice
which ones recommended
frozen karma
leaden lichen
Did anyone figure out whats breaking people out of stealth in visions?
strange python
So i got a question under that twitter post people are talking about strongest opener being the best
So shouldnt sub rogue be the best spec of rogue in horrific visions? Or does assa have the best opener?
latent gazelle
Is it really subterfuge that’s knocking people out of stealth in horrific visions?
royal lantern
nah,he is trolling
ashen solar
It was tested here and confirmed I thought 
royal lantern
well, MA it is then
polar cape
NS run speed tough <.<
true thistle
azerokk's resonating heart(430ivl); harlan's dice(430ilvl); ashvane's razor coral(415lvl)
For mythic+ What trinkets should i use? Considering i am using 3xFoK, 2xSS, 1xTTK
stray folio
is it worth trying to get clf still or no ?
cobalt pelican
yes
cinder nymph
is world vein really best major?
vestal wren
hard to say
essences might play out a lot diffrent then on sims
the reason can be boss design or the support essence
rigid mango
CLF will probably be BiS.
WV is too limited because of fight design, blood will be used when it's good thanks to fight design, it's never bad but you it's optimal on fights with specific timers like Zaq or QA were this tier.
hollow glade
So I have read alot and Im still a bit perplexed, how much haste should we have a Sin rogues going into raids/single target?
rigid mango
Whatever sims best fam
hollow glade
I saw I should have between 20-25% but I see others with Haste WAY up there. Any advice?
rigid mango
You should play whatever sims best, fam.
hollow glade
So no words on a haste cap/soft cap. general respective ratio, just "Go ask someone else" essentially?
drifting cloud
theres no magic numbers
hollow glade
Thanks for all the help!!
rigid mango
There are no caps, there are no needed % no nothing
All our stats scale pretty linearly.
hollow glade
Very insightful
vestal wren
btw. its likely that we see some changes in corrupted gear and trinkets
so whats currently "best" could be only "okay" after the changes
rigid mango
Yes, that's balancing 😄
frigid briar
Echo void scales with stamina right?
Or did I read the tooltip wrong?
Hits for % of max health?
rigid mango
It does.
cobalt pelican
think it's current health
but it scales with health yea
not entirely sure if it's max or current, i'm sure someone who has it can clarify
rigid mango
Current
By the wording of "1.5% of your health" I'd assume there'd be a max there
If it were max health
frigid briar
Yeah was wondering if there was a max damage it could deal. Considering the Healthpools we will gain and 80 neck 3% stam
vestal wren
yes, but its worth to mention that corruption and trinkets can easily impact what stats are good/bad
frigid briar
One piece 35+ corrupted gave me 5k dps increase.
vestal wren
e.g. a strong corruption item beeing hasted can lead to haste having higher value
rigid mango
Yes fuu that's why I said sim yourself
That's why that's the answer to everything
But people don't go away until you spam some more bs text that they don't understand nor care to understand and understand simming is how we know.
frigid briar
Really wish they would do the balancing before HC week, everything gonna be so skewed. Items going to people that end up trash ect
And after hc week balance again
cobalt pelican
it's still possible that they will
i think it'd be ideal for them to do 2 passes on it
but eh
frigid briar
Also, there is no way to proc echo void damage phase? I tried a cancel aura macro but just removes the buff and doesnt give the damage
cobalt pelican
i'd be thankful if we even get 1 at the rate this patch is going so far
frigid briar
Ended a fight with like 14 stacks...
bronze wagon
i'm guessing we'll do some dumb shit with gladiators emblem to increase max health for dps lol
for the first few weeks
proven talon
i have a feeling that's not going to be viable over running two good trinkets
on that topic, did font of power get nerfed, it's simming insanely low for sin on bloodmallet
cobalt pelican
the bloodmallet profile doesn't have coral as a set trinket
so it's simming font+nothing basically
hollow glade
If it wasnt for the pins, this discord wuld be useless lol
cobalt pelican
when the benefit of font is the 10s overlap
proven talon
o yikes ok
frigid briar
I think it will be really difficult to beat coral+font
proven talon
wasnt sure what the profile ran
proven talon
yeah i just saw
rigid mango
@hollow glade Please give us feedback so we can improve (:
cobalt pelican
no nerfs though no, if either of the 2 get dropped it's almost certainly going to be font however
so you might end up playing like coral+jar or coral+spyglass or something
cobalt pelican
depends on what your tep trinkets are
i have a 435 socketed font and a baseline mythic coral and i'm not expecting to replace any of them with anything below 475 trinkets
and even then without a balance pass it's like.. not looking likely
if you have an unsocketed 430 font
frigid briar
It will only happen with nerfs imo. Font coral synergy is just so strong.
proven talon
mines 445
cobalt pelican
maybe it'll get replaced by a 465 m+/475 trinket, but i doubt any heroic nyalotha trinkets come close
rigid mango
Only thing that can happen is mythic trink beating font.
I don't see anything beating coral
cobalt pelican
idk what they were thinking with coral tbh it's like they just made 2 trinkets into 1 and were like 'eh fuck it it's fine'
rigid mango
Pretty much, it's fucking nuts.
frigid briar
Then make a trinket to overlap it...
frigid briar
Dont rate it
rigid mango
And not as behind font as people think
frigid briar
Its garbage on progression imo
proven talon
i love the design of coral, not sure how alone on that i am
frigid briar
Unless p4 rush boss strat
rigid mango
inkpod is garbage on progression?
frigid briar
Thing with inkpod vs font coral, making push times is harder
quasi pewter
rigid mango
Depends entirely on the fight
lol
And also, how is getting damage into the 30% window bad when you're on progress
and there's no betting on clean runs
quasi pewter
if font allows you to make a push that is pre execute then yes it is better
but if you need execute then inkpod is better
proven talon
thats like saying u should always lust on pull
civic palm
Often the final 10% is the most fucked > _>
quasi pewter
like wat
rigid mango
And the last 30% are normally the hardest
proven talon
or lust just to get past the hard parts
frigid briar
Thats if you reach the 30% window
rigid mango
Yeah so what
civic palm
Just never kill the boss.
rigid mango
you play font for a small dps upgrade
proven talon
when on fights like ra'den, you're never goingt to do that
civic palm
Then Inkpod is AWFUL.
quasi pewter
if you reach the 30% window cant be an argument
rigid mango
but there's no fucking wayyyyy you can say inkpod is bad on prog
that's like the opposite of what like nearly everyone thinks man
quasi pewter
like you cant just suddenly swap out trinkets mid progress that change ur damage so much
frigid briar
I said bad on prog unless p4 rush
civic palm
_>
civic palm
It's bad if the boss doesn't die.
proven talon
running a sub-optimal setup that you wont run on the kill is bad for prog. there i said it
rigid mango
It's good if u want to kill the boss
civic palm
It's obviously bad on fights where the boss starts @ under the trigger, or never gets to the trigger before the encounter terminates.
Other than that > _>
rigid mango
Idk broski
distant lava
can be giga good on bosses with multiple phases, for example maut
rigid mango
I think you think font is wayyyy better than it actually is in a realistic comparison
civic palm
Yeah if there are bosses where you are getting multiple triggers, value obviously goes up.
I can see using other trinkets while learning a fight, but that's rarely ever worth it.
quasi pewter
not neccessarily
civic palm
The multi-trigger value of course depends on mob health, time off target, etc.
rigid mango
So has font, but it's not like font is ever "much better"
civic palm
Ye.
cobalt pelican
proven talon
oof
harsh sphinx
frigid briar
Yeah font coral wont be swapped out
Unless they nerfed we will finish tier using them if we have mythic
cobalt pelican
or a socketed one yeah
proven talon
as if ur not using worlvein rank 3 there tho
bronze wagon
well if they nerf coral font wont that just nerf us in the lock/fire/dh/war meta lol
frigid briar
Im simming 61k just now and no trinket in new raid comes close to being an upgrade
cobalt pelican
even if i play worldvein at some point i'm hesitant to use it for gear references
dense vale
Think we are gonna be assa every fight or do you think we can get away with outlaw?
civic palm
I can see Coral getting beat if we, for some reason, end up stacking a metric shit ton of haste.
cobalt pelican
probably assassination almost all tier
civic palm
Weee shaaall seeee.
proven talon
outlaw on hivemind poggies
dense vale
Man, I actually pref outlaw to sin. Fml
proven talon
I think most people do
quasi pewter
are u raiding mythic
cobalt pelican
you can play outlaw if you want
dense vale
Yea
frigid briar
I dont
quasi pewter
yea play sin
frigid briar
Outlaw feel garbage to progress with imo
quasi pewter
outlaw is an abomination
proven talon
ok sub boi
frigid briar
Saryero gets it
quasi pewter
sub is garbage too
dense vale
I know it's dogshit st just thought there may be enough cleave
cobalt pelican
so
quasi pewter
because they ruined it
cobalt pelican
there's really not that much meaningful cleave
or at least like
not that outlaw can do
like on hivemind you'll probably do more overall dps playing outlaw but who actually cares they don't do anything anyway
quasi pewter
i mean for overall dps outlaw will be better on some fights for sure
proven talon
they should have never nerfed keep your wits or blade flurry :^) xd
quasi pewter
but hivemind looks like the most freeloot boss in the whole raid if they didnt tune it up since ptr
proven talon
regardless we sin now boiz
frigid briar
People who play for logs LUL
frigid briar
Just get infinit stars and play what you want 🥳
cobalt pelican
well at least not the majority of it that matters
quasi pewter
everything outlaw can do, there is another melee spec that can do it better
same can not be said for assa
proven talon
(havoc dh)
quasi pewter
frost dk
dense vale
That's true. Yet to see another melee beat me on za'qul though :P
bronze wagon
our blood dk sims for 50k with 2 stars pieces right now, its actual madness
proven talon
thats totally different lol
civic palm
The union reps have confirmed that you must.
cobalt pelican
you don't have to, it's just likely to be best in the majority of cases
i think most people are planning to have outlaw at a playable level during prog just incase
dense vale
Meh, I'm 450 for both so I'm good either way. Just don't have infinite stars so probs Benched anyway haha
proven talon
but thats only if we decide to drop other melee cleavers
quasi pewter
i have like 1000 azerite pieces and 2 follies just in case
urban junco
Probably best.
quasi pewter
but i dont plan on playing it
dense vale
Haha I have 2 shimmerscale so I can go wits or BB depending on ST/cleave
quasi pewter
cuz if there is cleave i will be bench anyway propably
bronze wagon
I think they stealth nerfed EV today, changed ICD and the stacks from 0.1 to 0.7, does anyone have a piece to test?
civic palm
That's the best thing about things where SIN doesn't excel at...
quasi pewter
we have 50 chars and my alt is a shadow
civic palm
the bench is warmed.
civic palm
If it's 2-target Destro is still blasting ye?
quasi pewter
no chance
frigid briar
Echo void did 10% of my damage some fights tonight EU server
urban junco
Just get good corruption piece on priest 🙂
dense vale
My alt is a fury war so..
frigid briar
So doesnt seem nerfed
cobalt pelican
doubt they'd nerf anything that significantly without a blue
it's possible you somehow noticed it inbetween it being pushed and a blue going up but unlikely
quasi pewter
buoyant kraken
is there any reason that unbridled is getting used on ST over focused resolve? For me focused resolve sims a bit higher, but i guess there might be some uptime shit or something?
quasi pewter
unbridled sims higher for most
with corruption pieces focused resolve might be better
if it actually sims better, use it
cobalt pelican
yeah, seems like going forward to ++somegear it'll have to be revisited and likely focused resolve will start getting used on patchwerk, but for right now unbridled is better for like 95% of ppl and even for ppl focused resolve is good for it's like.. 30 dps for a restrictive potion
quasi pewter
i already used focused resolve on zaqul prog
cobalt pelican
on split?
proven talon
sounds like a plausible use on nzoth inside phase
cobalt pelican
and unbridled pops off in delirium (across the full 1min, not great for just split) so i just stuck with it
dense vale
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
sterile ocean
i guess im running world vein
dense vale
Is Purification really bottom tier for 8.3 though or is that overview outdated?
civic palm
dense vale
Only some parts are updated though. The combinations only shows 2 minors etc
cobalt pelican
there's nothing to indicate pp is particularly good for us, even though it's probably worth having just incase
like, even against aberrations it's worse than standard essences we use st
civic palm
Ye
cobalt pelican
and yeah it cleaves but like, we're not really a cleave machine
crisp hollow
are we just running coral+font all tier? I haven't heard anything positive about melee trinkets
quasi pewter
as of right now mythic coral and font will be used until end of expac
but maybe new trinkets will get buffs
Hopefully*
civic palm
or they nerf coral 
plain moon
How do I check t osee how the apl uses trinkets? I want to see if a high ilvl pvp badge next season could beat a mythic font but not sure if the apl uses it correct
cobalt pelican
how would you expect it to use it
it'll naturally be lined up to vendetta if it's your only on use
plain moon
well because its withcoral idk if anything weird happens. Not sure how the best way to use it is since the trinket only lasts 15secs
cobalt pelican
there is no way to use coral+badge together effectively really
right now coral will be lined to vendetta and badge will just be pressed on cd (outside of vend)
to double check though, just run a quick sim and go to the html report, and scroll down to action priority list and then sample sequence
plain moon
yeah with them both being so short i guess theres no way to do it
didnt put a lot of thought into this but ik firemage uses font+badge so wanted to double check how it is for us
cobalt pelican
font is a 30 second buff so you can have 10 seconds of font and 10 seconds of badge
which is why fire mages want it, cause that's your entire combust window
coral is 20 seconds and badge is 15 seconds, but there's a 20 second shared cd
so they'll never be useful together, and one will be relegated to 'press randomly'
plain moon
Yeah I know, thats why i was saying just had an idea
maybe theres some cursed way to use it with WV where you serperate them and use one of the trinkets on the WV between vends
but I doubt that beats font+coral
quasi pewter
Font is special also because it trinket goes on cd at start of the channel and you get the 30s at the end of it
So you get 14s of coral in ur font
plain moon
yeah the extra 4sec of CDR is nice
quasi pewter
And if mages use it with badge they should should get it in font almost fully i guess
plain moon
yeah they just use badge where we use our coral
cobalt pelican
yea they do, but they have a bit of wiggle since combust is only like.. 10 seconds? 8 seconds? idr
plain moon
10sec
quasi pewter
I have 0 clue about mages
Propably the class in game i know least about know that i think of it
vast forum
font is actually a 34 sec buff technically
cobalt pelican
well.. it's not
vast forum
it has 30 sec duration at the end of the 4 sec channel, allowing you to use a follow-up trinket 16 sec later
so you can have 14 sec of both together
vast forum
ye i didn't read everything, just skimmed through 😛
civic palm
~ _~
shut garnet
meanwhile i was out here using character log window to check when i can pull out coral after using font
chilly marsh
anyone did sims with 4 essences ?
harsh sphinx
ye
primal coral
what enchants should you get as a rogue? I looked in the guide but didn't see anything, maybe I missed it.
weapon enchants I meant
primal coral
Ok, will do. The enchants can't stack right? So don't use 2 of them same?
rigid mango
They do not
torpid cradle
how much will i be behind having alost the first week?
cobalt pelican
uhhhhhh
like you can't do anything today?
you'd be behind by 1 cape level if you did everything next week, and not behind at all by mythic week
arctic walrus
you're just behind on rep
cobalt pelican
i gotta start slaving my events in uldum daily
cause i'm gonna get breath 3 like a month after everyone else at this rate
idle prairie
Do we still stack multiple SS if double dose isn't avaliable? Or do we just take one SS and use other options?
halcyon zealot
When you guys are simming for worldvein major, how many WV allies are you all putting into raidbots?
drifting cloud
until I klnow that atleast 5 people in my guild will actually use it I dont even sim it
halcyon zealot
yeah well its simming higher than CLF for me even at just 1 ally, a bit weird
drifting cloud
yeah the buff was big
dense axle
halcyon zealot
is it in the running for other classes aswell will there be a high chance of atleast 4 other classes using that ?
cobalt pelican
a single sim ally is worth a lot more than a single raid ally
drifting cloud
yeah on sim the person stands on top of you
cobalt pelican
and you almost never need to restack for any reason
well, idk why i said almost
you never need to restack the shards unless very unlucky
this is sim uptime with 1 ally
which is kinda just very unrealistic
wv is v much either your raid commits to it and your entire raid (minus people who can't for x reason) use it or just avoid tbh
halcyon zealot
yeah that makes sense actually
quasi scroll
is 3x shrouded the favorite for M+?
I see the pin says
G1 G2 G3 R1 FoK Env BotE 5xFoK
so I assume so
quasi scroll
it gives rank 1
unkempt solstice
that's what i need this week
quasi scroll
I ran it on my druid and I don't think I ever went below 99% health
2 people left group after HK8 and we finished it with me + rogue + retpally
unkempt solstice
G1 G2 G3 R1 FoK Env BotE 5xFoK <-- what's this mean?
shy dust
3 Shrouded is very strong for m+ yes
quasi scroll
garrote x3, rupture, fan, envenom, blood of enemy, fan 5 times
was thinking of trying 3x echo + 3x Twist
but if my current is already considered the best then meh
everybody remember to buy your loot tokens tonight so you have them to spend tomorrow
shy dust
He means reroll tokens
outer lotus
Ah
Thought you were referring to buying tokens today and attempting to refund them tomorrow
quasi scroll
ah
nah I've just been on a crusade the past week to remind people not to blow reroll tokens on 430 junk
and remind them to buy them up tonight to use tomorrow hah
outer lotus
I spent 2 tokens on normal this week hoping to get azerite
Cause i was already at cap with 2 quests still up lol
quasi scroll
azerite or azerite gear?
outer lotus
Azerite Power lol
quasi scroll
wow
robust gull
well for world vein isnt it really only useful if other melee are running it? doesnt do much good if you have ranged with it and youre not getting the benefit from it
cobalt pelican
mostly yeah
ranged using it can have some minor benefit
depending on that fight
like, if you're moving through an area that ranged already have shards that's vvvv beneficial
or ranged are in melee (which happens frequently) they might aswell be melee
unkempt solstice
has anyone gotten, or heard of anyone getting the new leatherworking recipes?
plain moon
its really from the daily vision? I thought it was just going to be world mobs in the assault zone
unkempt solstice
says "cultists"
fallow otter
Whats everyone's sims looking like? Wv major then iris, lucid, crucible? I thought it might be rank 1 dying but not anymore
fallow otter
Because of movement on the minor?
rigid mango
Yuh.
Just not very good potential lost damage on prog vs constant of clf/blood or whatever
fallow otter
We have heaps using it so I don't feel like that is going to be a problem, but hard to call not knowing the fights at all so I get your point. you think up time is going to be pretty bad?
rigid mango
I think people are overhyping it a bit yeah.
Maybe ranged will be able to use it a lot but I generally think melee wont.
And there's also the added variable of push windows and such, where blood will be great for example, I know of two already but they're probs more frequent.
Alas, I can only speculate until I blast through the raid next week and can actually test regular stuff/get a feel for how the mythic stuff'll play out.
fallow otter
Ye, exactly work out damage windows etc
Feels futile tbh, a good corrupted item going to over shadow any spec related dmg lol
rigid mango
They don't give burst tho.
fallow otter
True
spare flame
Makes me a little sad to hear you talk about using CLF still.
timber meadow
Haven't really kept up with the craftable gear much - is there anything in particular that would be worthwhile to check out for assa?
sterile ocean
whats wrong with CLF?
fallow otter
@sterile ocean it got nerfed
languid leaf
whats best instead of clf?
hexed meadow
Does Raidbots have the corrected CLF? I heard yesterday that it was not showing it.
unkempt solstice
how are we getting higher ilvl mythic azerite gear with residuum gone?
drifting cloud
its not gone, just reset
arctic walrus
yes raidbots is up to date
sterile ocean
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fukPrRYbTzCtFE7UEMfkyz i thought titanforgeing was gone?
unkempt solstice
think it's only gone ont he new stuff.
sterile ocean
yeah this is for season 4
cerulean anchor
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
dire terrace
hi im fairly new to assassination, can someone explain the m+ opener pin to me (I dont understand what G1 R1 mean)
manic prism
garrote target 1
fresh tangle
Is rogue easy to learn
manic prism
rupture target 2
dire terrace
ah ok
manic prism
g1 g2 g3 so garrote off gcd onto 3 seperate target
dire terrace
i find since im doing lower keys garrote's time to come off cd and the time where the mobs die dont line up
should i just FOK and rupture them all?
manic prism
well thats the opener from stealth right so theres no cd
so u would be sletath w/ subterfuge and u get 3 garrotes off if there are multiple targets because its ur biggest dps gain
dire terrace
ah im running master assass....mb
marble hemlock
You open from stealth with subterfuge talented, the first 3 garrotes don't have a cd
peak jungle
Is Breath of the Dying still bugged?
IIRC, the rank 1 was doing the damage of the rank 3
sterile ocean
so do i want crit vers now?
peak jungle
sim, it depends on your current gear
drifting cloud
breath was fixed
fresh heron
so, do we have any info on anything yet or is it still "sim it"
marble hemlock
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive
drifting cloud
well bis depends on the level of content you do
zaqul mythic helm was bis for st, what does that help you if you dont kill the boss for example
fresh heron
right but azerite trait x is gonna be good regardless of what lvl, would it not?
drifting cloud
alot of azerite traits are good
just because an item has double dose for example, doesnt make it bis
because theres 2 other traits on it
and ilvl definetly matters
and then its all also relative to the current gear you have for what to gamble etc, thats why simming is just better
we cant know the current state of your char
fresh heron
well thanks, you answered my question. There is still no standard information yet. and the answer is indeed, sim it
quasi pewter
the answer is always sim it, but the same traits are still good as before
steady owl
When will you be streaming again seliathan? I miss your videos
strange python
it hurt bad reading the wowhead "what dps should you play in nyalotha"
median thorn
Sporebat?
marble hemlock
@steady owl currently on my way back from my vacation, 10 more hours of travel. Gonna stream hc and other stuff tomorrow I think
@fresh heron since no changes have been made to the class or spec as a whole the same stuff still applies in terms of azerite etc
grave trail
i hope the new mythic trinkets out dps font and coral f that
shrewd night
They dont
grave trail
expect nerf/buff incoming then KEK
marble hemlock
You can check herodamage for a basic idea on how the new essences or corruptions might scale but as others have said, simming will always give more accurate results for your character and it's gear specifically
somber hill
Rotation wise, when are people popping Worldvein? Azshara trinket-Stealth-mut-rup-mut-gar-WV?-Env-Ven-Vanish-TB-mut-env-mut-env-etc?
marble hemlock
Can safely pop it in between vendetta and tb
somber hill
without energy capping?
spare flame
Are the two openers still basically the same? Assuming ma etc
grave trail
wheres your pot
grave trail
env before tb?
somber hill
yea i do that so i get the EP running into my next cp spend, and env buff running into TB for poison dmg
distant lava
yeah I would go WV Ven TB vanish env mut env
somber hill
should i adjust that tho?
distant lava
I mean it's been the opener for the whole tier at least
grave trail
pretty sure it hasnt been
jaunty arrow
Dunno if wv will be best choice
somber hill
its simming the best right now over CLF by a lot
jaunty arrow
Simming yes but if u stay on place
somber hill
true i guess, but given the amount of melee running it, im confident it will be good, if its a super high movement fight obviously you gotta change things up
grave trail
pretty sure its font>prepot > stealth > mut > rupt > mut > gar > clf > vend >tb > vanish > env
jaunty arrow
We will see but i guess clf and bote will be much better overal coz movement and burst Windows
jaunty arrow
Also depends on bosses strategies atc
grave trail
true im guessing for fights like the dog u can run WV
somber hill
see @grave trail the issue i have with that opener is that the envenom coming out of vanish with crit will prob be unbuffed from EP no?
grave trail
TBH im not sure of the EP timing but most of the top rogues on wow logs do it that way, but i see what ur saying
somber hill
which is why im considering font-prepot -Stealth-mut-rup-mut-gar-Env(to start EP and dump those CP)-VenD-Vanish-TB-mut-env(then this env benefits from ep plus ur gonna get 5 cp from the stealthed tb and mut)-mut-env-etc?
jaunty arrow
Its kinda waste use rup with 2cp if u dont crit
frigid sleet
The value of having two evenom in the vanish window man
grave trail
yeah thats why you TB before vanish
somber hill
hmmm that makes sense
grave trail
Vend TB
somber hill
ya if u dont crit u hit another mut there
jaunty arrow
U will but there is always but
somber hill
focusing on latter part near vanish
frigid sleet
We used to be fitting tb in vanish window during bod cause less crit, but not anymore
marble hemlock
If you don't crit you mut mut rup gar instead
Point is to get 2 mutilate into your ma opener
Since we used to open gar mut rup
grave trail
thats not it either XD read the openers above
of course always suming ur MA mut crits we do know u use another mut if it doesnt
anyways @somber hill i looked at the top 10 most recent sivara logs and most of them use the opener I typed. none of them use a env before TB or vanish and then TB
somber hill
font-prepot -Stealth-mut-rup-mut-gar-WV-VenD-TB-Vanish-mut-env-mut-env-et ---> WV being world vein
so that look good?^
somber hill
br?
grave trail
ull be* lol sorry late here
grave trail
u wanna always vanish before envenom no need to vanish the TB
somber hill
font-prepot -Stealth-mut-rup-mut-gar-TB- WV-VenD-Vanish-TB-env-mut-env-etc --- or would u Ven before tb
WV is worldvein
grave trail
it looks good but wv-vend-tb-vanish-env
quasi pewter
isnt the opener in the guide
marble hemlock
You use wv before or after vendetta
quasi pewter
alternatively look at warcraftlogs how ppl do it
grave trail
wv before
faint harness
doesnt really matter
grave trail
depends on energy too
somber hill
ya im asking about wv usage mostly, and timing it around vend so as not to overcap not a lot of ppl are using WV right now but i think Wv will be go to
quasi pewter
i dont think it will be
faint harness
you wont overcap
quasi pewter
but i would generally use wv before vendetta
faint harness
you can all of this perfect, but then it doesnt matter cus you dont have infinite stars or any of the other 2-3 broken corruption affixes
marble hemlock
It's less about capping and more about whether you can actually fill 20 gcds within vendetta, then using wv within vendetta will be a loss
jaunty arrow
marble hemlock
If you'll only use like 15 gcds in vendetta, might aswell use wv after to have all of it be during vendetta
faint harness
doubt anyones counting
marble hemlock
I mean it's not about counting
I'd just a matter of whether you can still use abilities on the gcd when vendetta runs out
With bl that is very likely
faint harness
what is the gcd difference on using vendetta with BL and not
faint harness
is wv based on haste?
faint harness
ye alright
faint harness
is it tho
marble hemlock
No it wasn't
grave trail
it is XD
somber hill
all useful still dw
marble hemlock
Using wv within vendetta is gonna be a loss to using it before if your missing out on one ability use during vendetta
faint harness
he just said its useful, all good
marble hemlock
And having bl during vendetta is very likely to make you generate enough energy to fill every single gcd, at which point you definitely wanna use wv before vendetta
somber hill
mut-rup-mut-gar- at this point if u have 5 cp from crit mut and gar, we still gonna tb pre vanish right? eventhough we are gonna cp cap?
marble hemlock
I'd envenom
If you 2x4cp mut like that you'll overcap after vendetta
And yes
If tb is ready and you're already at 4+ you use it immediately and overcap
somber hill
ok solid
faint harness
still another 24 hours for EU release
jaunty arrow
@marble hemlock so u will use gar (5cp) clf or w/e vendt mut tb vanish env atc?
jaunty arrow
I mean continuing what u write sorry 😃
graceful musk
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
marble hemlock
Again, Opener is in the pins :p
jaunty arrow
I know sorry, i was just curious
marble hemlock
I was just talking about doing mut r mut g env mut to 4+ vend tb van env IF both muts at the start were 4cp
If you mut r mut g vend tb van env you will overcap most likely
But that's me feely crafting
jaunty arrow
Yep u will but i ignore that thats why i ask
steady owl
Do you expect wv to replace clf seli?
jaunty arrow
I guess we will use clf and bote
steady owl
You benefit from others shards as much as your own right? So if many people are using it, moving around might be less of an issue idk
jaunty arrow
Wv sim higher but we will see coz movement
marble hemlock
Nah
I think wv is gonna fade out quickly
Same as in tep
To much positional requirement/dependency on the boss not moving for 18 second for the major to get good value
grizzled jay
Are we still stacking DD trait for raids?
hot copper
I can't seem to find a clear answer to this, but I might be going to specific.
Is it okay to use (for example) a 2cp rupture to add extra seconds to ruptures dot before a TB window comes up. So that it doesn't expire inside of the TB window and you also don't overcap pandemic?
Or is it better to lose the pandemic dot damage?
marble hemlock
Refreshing within pandemic is not a dps gain
It just makes the rotation smoother by allowing you to refresh earlier and not exactly as the dot runs out
hoary crown
Man the trinkets are bad from ny’alotha 😫
What do you think will be assa's best now ?
night vale
probably font + coral.
maybe coral + high level golden plumage
or high level other dungeon trinket, depending on your font ilvl
faint harness
the tentacle slam trinket should be decent in aoe at least
marble hemlock
Whatever trinket has infinite stars corruption kek
faint harness
yea i mean i honestly feel like we can talk forever about bis items
but in the end
if you have shit luck with corruption ur dps is gonna be bad anyway
jaunty arrow
Just sim yourself thats the key
faint harness
yes, destroy all discussion with sim yourself because thats always correct
marble hemlock
Well
jaunty arrow
Sad true kinda
marble hemlock
It's true though
faint harness
Not saying it isnt
marble hemlock
There are sims that compare trinkets of equal ilvl and for specific recommendations you just need to sim
faint harness
I always sim myself, but i dont mind discussing wacky stuff and then simming that wacky stuff
instead of just autoreplying sim yourself
marble hemlock
Either way "sim it" is the correct answer
wooden island
Why even have a discord channel for discussion if the only answear is sim urself
Might aswell lock it and have a pinned msg saying sim urself
faint harness
yea you could replace the discord with a big notification saying TLDR SIM YOURSELF
marble hemlock
That's not the point
wooden island
Kinda is
faint harness
Yea it is
discussion aint allowed because the obvious answer is sim yourself
whenever someone says that they shut it down
marble hemlock
When people come in here asking"what are the best trinkets" that answer is either check existing sims or sim yourself
faint harness
"Yea this discussion is good and all, but.. feelycraft bitcheeees, simyourselves.
In that instance theres not much to do Seli
marble hemlock
There's still room for discussion for specific scenarios
faint harness
But there are other situations where its not the case
marble hemlock
But for the vast majority of people 
is the correct response
faint harness
Yep, and thats fine
but you also get emoji-tagged with feelycraft icon if you discuss something openly
but its a big discord, lots of ppl, i think most ppl are just scared to lead players with lesser knowledge into believing something sub-optimal is the w2g
marble hemlock
Something sub optimal is by definition not the way to go if people want to play optimally
That's why there's little room for discussion
In those situations
faint harness
Yes, thats why i said thats what people are worried about
If you know anything about the game you know whats optimal and not
But there are casuals that treat discords as their main source of information
jaunty arrow
Well u can ask if this trinket should be better than this on this boss coz dunno ads. If i understand u if not sorry
faint harness
Imo, there werent any good aoe trinkets in EP
So the tentacle slam trinket could be useful for that
marble hemlock
People usually get the answer they need
If they ask about a specific boss, people become specific
jaunty arrow
I just try to understand u point
marble hemlock
If they ask general questions, they get hit with
faint harness
8/10 times its sim yourself and they go away knowing what number is higher but lack critical information about the underlying mechanics as to why that is
faint harness
of course
@jaunty arrow the point is simple, reducing discord to a "sim yourself" simulator wastes the potential of the forum
But obviously theres limits to everything
and in some situations "sim yourself" is indeed the only real answer
marble hemlock
It doesn't limit anything
People are free to ask for more details and they will get them
faint harness
I'll stand corrected when i see it
real bay
gear is quite simply sim yourself , what to use on a certain boss can be discussed
faint harness
Its just an opinion, I spend too little time in here to warrant some kind of revolution
marble hemlock
That's because none is necessary
lavish grove
marble hemlock
Everyone can talk as in-depth as they want
If people only respond with sim yourself, that's because 99% of people just need that response
faint harness
Anyway, lets back to assasination topic shall we, great morning for stabbings. Happy NA raiding in the new raid!
lavish grove
what is the weak aura command again? D:
shrewd iron
If I would've listened to ''sim yourself'' I would be stuck with TD trinket + Radiance trinket _(
lethal heart
@marble hemlock ✈️ 👳
silk iron
does wowanalyzer work for assassination?
shrewd iron
yes @faint harness
silk iron
just trying to look at someone
marble hemlock
@lethal heart <3
faint harness
@shrewd iron Ur other trinkets bad or what
low bramble
What bosses should we be going Outlaw for this raid? Maybe Hivemind + final 2?
Hoping it ain’t too many because my essences are whack. I tunneled on an Assassination setup lol
faint harness
Personally havent looked at it too much yet, but outlaw seems to be strong for some bosses. Also depends on waht your raid needs tbh.
hot copper
@marble hemlock what I mean is.. imagine if you have 13 seconds of rupture, TB is off cooldown in 5 seconds. Do you quickly rupture at 2CP to make sure your bleed can last throughout the TB window. Granted you can get to 3CP with energy, before TB is up?
quasi pewter
you never rupt below 4 cp
marble hemlock
That means tb is ready at 8 sec rupture left
Which is only 0.8 sec more than pandemic
But it's literally just what @quasi pewter said
If your rupture runs out before tb comes up, you played it wrong
Since it's 24 sec duration and tb is 25 sec cd
covert schooner
Anyone want to island with me?
versed mica
Aren't you just supposed to use tb on cd?
shrewd iron
yes
versed mica
then why tf are people worried about using rupture during it's window? lmao
shrewd iron
Because you want 3 envenoms in a tb window
wet zealot
Whats the bis azerite pieces this tier ?
topaz crow
Whatever u can get from the vendor cuz nothing in the raid looked that impressive imo
wet zealot
yikes
dire terrace
Is the website up to date with the m+ AP traits?
Should we have a mix of ST and MT for m+ ?
(Sorry for newb questions I am new)
surreal solar
By website if you mean ravenholdt, probably. Personally think Herodamage is a little drunk at the moment, wonky azerite suddenly being top looks a little off
stable isle
^pretty sure mystler said that'd be fixed soon
surreal solar
Good
stable isle
i mean i would'nt necessarily take herodamage (or bloodmallet) as gospel, since everything is simmed with a specific set of gear equipped which at this stage is most definitely nowhere near what you currently have equipped
dire terrace
But when we do m+ should we still have some ST AP traits like double dose (we still gotta kill bosses even though trash is important too)
I just don't enjoy the RNG rolls of outlaw
faint harness
loaded dice 👌
quasi pewter
you do not take double dose in m+
topaz crow
Personally should be taking ur traits around what ur group needs or lacks. This week my group had tons of aoe but poor boss, i went full st blew bosses away. Other way around id a gone full aoe to help. Just depends
quasi pewter
you do not take double dose in m+
rigid mango
wtf am I reading
modest tendon
Doesn’t a crit/mastery build with 3ss and ttk/BBI/NP sim higher on 3 min ST than DD builds?
dire terrace
I don't have a dedicated group I mostly pug keys I'm unsure of which traits it's why I'm asking
I did say I was new....
dire terrace
Does dungeon slice work for simming top gear for m+? Or is there a better choice
distant lava
there's not really a good choice for sin m+ afaik
modest tendon
I’m sure I’ve seen Fuu say dungeon slice is ok for M+ for assa
marble hemlock
I would respectfully disagree with that assessment
modest tendon
That I might not have seen fuu say it’s ok?
marble hemlock
Unless you consider dd/haste gear recommendations "ok"
modest tendon
Why do you not rate it though?
modest tendon
What does it set out to do?
marble hemlock
Simulate 3 different types of fights, including a 2 minute boss fight
40 sec 3-4 Target fights and 20 sec 5-6 target
So as a jack of all trades kind of sim it's good
It's just you generally focus on aoe
And sacrifice St
shrewd night
Dslice works very well for classes and specs that has little to no tradeoff between singletarget and aoe.
Assassination is not one of those specs.
marble hemlock
Pmuch ye
modest tendon
I swear I’ve seen it sim well with ss/eb regardless, is this not your experience?
rigid mango
Works perfectly fine for outlaw even more so because of 0 rotational complexity between st/target count
Dslice in my experience has had wonky trait choices and a lot of emphasis on haste.
modest tendon
What about Fuu’s dungeon slice then?
rigid mango
But I also stopped using it sometime into s2 when this was so clear.
modest tendon
Messing around with that 3ss/3eb consistently comes out best for me
rigid mango
Cool.
dire terrace
Thanks for your feedback everyone I might have to give outlaw another go with loaded dice
marble hemlock
Not saying dungeon slice will give bad or wrong results
But as shiennar said, due to us having vastly different choices in azerite, essences and secondary stats between st and aoe, the results can be inaccurate due to it mixing both together when most people just want to prioritize boosting their aoe as much as possible
fervent beacon
Just go EK/TTK, pog.
marble hemlock
@fervent beacon what is that new Avatar of yours :p
fervent beacon
Had it for a while, its just randomo anime that I found, I dig it.
old knot
Celty from Durarararara
fervent beacon
But I find sin to be brain dead in +, all you do is just spam fok, bleed and env on trash. At least its easy to manage.
rigid mango
Uh huh.
marble hemlock
Doing it well though
With correct Target selection
To maximize prio damage on high health targets while not over-bleeding etc
That's difficult and fun <3
fervent beacon
I always swap my targets whenever my current is low to the highest, similar to what I do on outlaw
storm lodge
what does sin do for wrathion spikes on normal/heroic? fok ?
marble hemlock
Assa tends to just single target even on aoe situations
fervent beacon
Yeah, I just need to find more pieces with TTK.
marble hemlock
Due to our aoe being abysmal unless geared for
storm lodge
ah so fok is never worth it if you're fully single target specced/traited ?
marble hemlock
It is
fervent beacon
I have one of EK, TTK, DD, NP, SS and unstable catalyst atm
marble hemlock
The rules for that you can find in the guide
fervent beacon
for +
jaunty arrow
U can assasinate assassins like a true assasin 
storm lodge
lol
marble hemlock
But yiu don't fok for the damage it deals by itself, it's just a builder
storm lodge
ah kk
storm lodge
i'm wondering about how i would do sin in fights like vexiona and hive mind
jaunty arrow
Bleed all
storm lodge
although vex has a pretty important burst period
marble hemlock
Someone still gotta kill the boss