#assassination

1 messages · Page 3547 of 1

unborn rampart
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what are mats for the eng helm in 8.3 for 475? @silk stump (Do we know yet how it is acquired/unlocked)?

hushed maple
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Would someone mind looking over the logs?

rigid mango
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You still used mut at 4cp once, better than before.

hushed maple
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nice

rigid mango
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Casting TB on CD, good.

hushed maple
rigid mango
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CLF should be before vend

hushed maple
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yeah I was realising that as I did it

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was it at ashvane?

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I just know, that I messed up ALOT on Court

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I would've facepalmed myself alot but I had no free hands to do so sadly

rigid mango
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This is a bit of a weird use of CD's

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You didn't cast font on pull nor 2nd vend

hushed maple
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On which boss?

rigid mango
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ashvane

hushed maple
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yikes

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me stupid

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how can I actually see the logs as you guys do?

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I only have columns and no spell icons

rigid mango
hushed maple
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yeah I have that, too actually

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still like that lel

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now it works

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I was a bit...yeah

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ignore me I was thinking they would appear on top

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xD

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But @rigid mango what I am wondering is, the Font doesnt appear anywhere

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actually

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not even on Za'qul

rigid mango
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Then u didn't cast it

hushed maple
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ofc I ddi

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did*

rigid mango
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It's "latent arcana"

hushed maple
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Yeah I know

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I did a 93 parse

rigid mango
#

Nah you didn't font

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Straight up

hushed maple
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so how would I not have used it

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I always use it...thats strange

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oh actually

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there it is on Ashvane

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I just reloaded a few times

cobalt pelican
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the prepull one might show as a buff but all the proceeding ones should be in the cast log

nimble skiff
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is the 475 engineering helmet good for assassination st?

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Or, going to be good.

rigid mango
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Probably

nimble skiff
#

Is there a link to traits?

arctic walrus
#

isn't it always just the same helmet

nimble skiff
#

I'm not too sure honestly

polar cape
#

Yeah

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Its either TTK or DD with one engi thing proc

narrow comet
#

If your still farming BOTE r3, Brawl: Comp Stomp is arathi against bots, like easy win 350 honor a win in 5m if you get the right group

modest tendon
#

What are the best dungeons for VoP+NP builds?

arctic walrus
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you never take np

modest tendon
#

Are there circumstances where it’s bad?

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Really?

arctic walrus
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yes

modest tendon
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It makes sense

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But do you loose too much overall?

arctic walrus
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np, because you're losing a trait for it, you don't need energy in packs, and it does little ST damage

drifting cloud
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its not terrible as 1 off

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but not ideal

arctic walrus
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vop is fine as I believe a replacement if not better than strife

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that's all though

cobalt pelican
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if you were going to try it anywhere kr probably

drifting cloud
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I saw people use it, but mostly because its on zaqul helm I guess

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and since assa azerite is so fun to get

strange python
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Azerite is destroying my will to live

terse orchid
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Same, but replace azerite with mandatory pvp for PvE gear

arctic walrus
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for what tho

strange python
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^ ?

terse orchid
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BotE?

strange python
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I thought you meant actual gear for a sec. Yeah, if you abhor pvp BotE and strife are semi out of reach for you

terse orchid
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pvp is the fucking worst, especially as an alliance player

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Thankfully I have my bote, but there's no way in hell i'm gearing up my warrior

strange python
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You can go to dalaran and queue as the opposite faction

terse orchid
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Only as the faction that has a surplus of players right?

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i.e. horde

strange python
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It's about an 8 minute queue

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Or comp stomp which is a instant queue against AI awards about 320 honor for a 10 minute win against AI

drifting cloud
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hes right, only the dominant faction can queue as merc

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but the other one has the perma 50% honor buff

strange python
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Oh I wasn't aware. I thought it was available to both.

terse orchid
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yeah even with the honor buff and the BG event, that 30k drained my spirit

strange python
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With the 50% honor buff I would just do comp stomp

terse orchid
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because every BG we got our shit kicked in

drifting cloud
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I dont think the buff works in brawl, only bgs 😛

strange python
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Well. I tried.

arctic walrus
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it counts ryler 😛

terse orchid
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there's no redeeming pvp haha

drifting cloud
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what really

arctic walrus
drifting cloud
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SMH MY HEAD

cobalt pelican
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pvp is fun : )

arctic walrus
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You don't even have to farm shit anymore though

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like it's your alt

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do 1 bg win a day for a month

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same time investment as lucid

drifting cloud
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but I need r4

worn cloak
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whats r4 bote? is that that 100k honor crap

drifting cloud
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yeah

worn cloak
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jesus

strange python
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My main was a sad windwalker. Only recently came to rogue so I have to redo all of the essences as well

worn cloak
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i think i have 27k or something

cobalt pelican
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at least we don't have significantly superior azerite pieces from pvp like some classes do

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in most cases there's a better helm and losing r esounding doesn't kill you (probably)

strange python
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should i roll for head if thats the only piece which isn 450 and doesnt have double dose on?

arctic walrus
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do you have gorak tuls

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and how likely are you to kill mythic zaqul

strange python
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i dont have gorak tuls but i just checked the 450 chest doesnt have double dose either
my current head is shroud of unmooring whispers
my chest is blackwter shimmerscale 450
and we wont kill mythic zaqul

rigid mango
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Then roll for goraks or slithering loa helm

strange python
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aright thanks

sage quartz
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Is there any situation where a sim would prefer a higher dmg higher ilvl weapon in the offhand? Trying to figure out if this is bugged

ashen solar
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it depends on stat weights

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generally the off hand weapon damage is rather low in terms of the stat weight

sage quartz
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exactly, so why wouldn't the sim prefer the higher dmg in the main hand?

ashen solar
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lemme look

arctic walrus
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because you didn't select it

sage quartz
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the second one down has the 440 in the MH

drifting cloud
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and a 410 in oh

arctic walrus
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there u go

sage quartz
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ah he fucked his shit up

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thx for the assist

ashen solar
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yea

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no sim was run with 440 in mh and 435 in OH

hollow raven
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So I just learned that sin rogues are melee aff locks

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:/

cobalt pelican
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that's unfortunate

dusky pawn
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I’m actually okay with this statement. Affliction locks have some of my favourite gameplay and now I get to do it on my favourite class? What is not to love?

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Still I think for a long time DK’s were more like melee warlocks than anyone else.

strange python
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what gems do i use in my gear i have a multitude of gems throughout and sims arent telling me what to put into them

rigid mango
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Odds are you're not simming properly

strange python
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raid bots top gear selecing all gems

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and its not swapping any out

rigid mango
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Did you check the box of replacing your current existing ones?

strange python
rigid mango
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There you go 😄

strange python
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it says too many combinations, first day swapping outlaw to sin

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what are the like 2 most likely gems i need

rigid mango
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Crit haste

strange python
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ok tyvm

worthy mortar
arctic walrus
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roll goraktuls, you have subter with 0 SS traits, so take ma

dusky pawn
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!wa

prisma monolithBOT
dusky pawn
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Any help w/ maybe a screenshot for choosing which of these WA packs to DL?

drifting cloud
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all the links have screenshots on wago

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alot of us use afenar, but I might be biased

dusky pawn
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First one I clicked I couldn’t see any screens maybe cause I am on my phone all good

drifting cloud
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yeah could be a mobile thing, all of them have gifs of how they look

dusky pawn
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Awesome I’ll check it out when I get home then, thanks man

fallow otter
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+1 for afenar but I fine tuned a bit

deep osprey
arctic walrus
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Who are you

drifting cloud
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pull, start of p2, 2nd add, start of p4, right before she dies

arctic walrus
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In this

drifting cloud
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unless youre assigned to 1st add

deep osprey
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Im obsiris sry

safe canyon
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Shitty casual here. Am i likely to be able to do all non-mythic raid content as muti in 8.3? I can't be arsed swapping between specs, traits, essences, gems, etc.

drifting cloud
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yes, assa is a good raid spec

safe canyon
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And for m+ up to 10?

drifting cloud
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still very good, but slightly harder to execute in m+ compared to outlaw

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because of gearing and the aoe rotation

deep osprey
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And do I hold bote until start of p2 or do I use it for hulk too?

drifting cloud
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if you stop dps you can use it on 2nd hulk

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which I assume you do

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also dont forget to consume the coral stacks there so you atleast get something from them

deep osprey
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Ty

safe canyon
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@drifting cloud thanks

candid anvil
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Hey, can I ask, what azerite powers do you play this week in m+ when it's tyrannical?

jaunty arrow
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3x ss EB ttk np (coz armor with overwhelm)

candid anvil
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and when it's not tyrannical you still play 3x SS or rather 3x EB?

jaunty arrow
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3x ss 3x EB

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Or 2 EB 1 ttk

candid anvil
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okay, and stat prio when you play around 3x SS is what? I'm playing 3x ebs with plenty of crit and I'm pretty satisfied with my dmg done at the end of dungeons, playing +14/15 rn

jaunty arrow
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Try to catch seliathan on stream, thats the best way to learn lots of about m+

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Max mastery and crit

candid anvil
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aight, thanks 🙂

neat horizon
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Hey guys, since i need to have a near 100% uptime on both rupture and garrote on my target, i'm finding it hard to track their dots in order to know when to refresh them
Anyone knows an addon or a WA that makes this a lot easier ?
Or something that makes them stand out from other dots/debuffs

royal lantern
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!wa

prisma monolithBOT
royal lantern
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there you go 🙂

neat horizon
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I dont need a full pack though

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just to track garrote and rupture

rigid mango
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Delete the rest or go google it

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not that hard

neat horizon
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I mean i thought id ask in a rogue discord because people here probably would be using something similar to it, which would make it a lot faster and easier than google

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But didnt expect id trigger someone .. jesus

rigid mango
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I mean we have WA's for that reason

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It was linked to you 😄

sand whale
neat horizon
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Anyways yeah thank you

candid anvil
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I recommend plater, since you see your dots on all targets even when you don't have them targeted

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but if you're asking for raid, wa is enough

neat horizon
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Alright ill give it a go thanks 🙂

shut garnet
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i dont get why you'd only wanna track things like that

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personal preference obviously

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but it just looks so weird lul i think raz has some wa's like that though

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i can link you his twitch you can go look see if he's got them posted somewhere

candid anvil
neat horizon
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A bit new to the class, and refreshing both dots is apparently important so till i get used to it properly i think im better off tracking them

shut garnet
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there y'go

neat horizon
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Ah this seems good

shut garnet
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ask away

candid anvil
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if you have some dots you don't wanna see you can add them to blacklist, its a bit mess when you pull dozens of mobs and you see deadly poison on every single one..

neat horizon
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Yeah i dont think poisons are important to track as they get refreshed passively. I'll do that with plater. Thank you guys for the advice 😄

candid anvil
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np ^^

arctic socket
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I wonder if there’s a coral WA

shut garnet
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there is

arctic socket
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Hmm I honestly didn’t even think to check

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Does anyone know the link to The WA for queen arshara? (Stand alone soak etc)

neat horizon
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@arctic socket

arctic socket
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Thank you (I didn’t know what to search for it lol)

neat horizon
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Np 😄

spare flame
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Can someone give me some insight how the interaction between cloak and the mythic azshara console dot? Do you pop console and then cloak off the debuff or do you need to have cloak running while you pop console?

arctic walrus
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Console then cloak

vagrant tapir
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p3 azshara

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Are you guys delaying vend, or using it on one of the adds?

cobalt pelican
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use on first or second depending on what your raid wants, hold on 3rd till p4

steady owl
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Do you think I should use fathomstalker wrist wraps with a Socket or ori’s tidal wristwraps without a socket on Za’qul? I’ve spent all my mana pearls every day for 3 months now trying to get that socketed but I never get it

arctic walrus
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Are they equal ilvl?

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A socket is very big

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And it’s what should always be running

steady owl
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Yeah they’re equal, I just always though ori’s was better but maybe maybe fathomstalker is better with all the adds I thought

arctic walrus
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No the effect isn’t the main reason benthic is good

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It’s a guaranteed socket

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Go for fathom, they’re near equal anyway

steady owl
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Ok I will thx

desert kelp
rose sky
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What would be the best azerite setup for this week in keys

arctic walrus
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Rotation seems fine

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Think you just lack better azerite, a font. relook into your gems and enchants might be different might be not

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Do you have clf? Use it until zaq and azshara

desert kelp
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I see, I will do so, been following guild recommendations due to me being here for burst damage, I do have rank 3 CLF yes, I do have a few other azerites but again, using ones for za'qul and azhara burst damage, gems did seem to be correct atleast last I checked

arctic walrus
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You take strife instead of iris when you run blood too

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Was only on mobile though if someone see wants to look

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You did waste a couple of cp by using mut at 4 cp, don’t do that

desert kelp
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Oh? I'll swap to strife then, do have it as rank 3

oblique jackal
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anyone know how rogue is looking in 8.3?

arctic walrus
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Always in a good spot

shut pasture
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is it worth going for crit/vers pieces over vers mastery for m+?

rigid mango
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Ye

shut pasture
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crit haste masery vers

rigid mango
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Seems good enough, mastery could do with being a bit higher.

restive smelt
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Do people run around with such low haste?

rigid mango
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For m+ yes.

pseudo hamlet
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I have a question, if I use Azshara+Coral -> should I use the Ashvane trinket after every second Azshara? Because sometimes I just keep it till the third/fourth Azshara+Vendetta for the ~90% crit chance(just for the lolz). So I was wondering, what's the most optimal way to use it?

rigid mango
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Like ti says in the pins

honest vessel
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With second vendetta and every vendetta after that

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After font on cd

shut pasture
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for tyrannical CoF>Blood right?

rigid mango
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No

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Blood is 2nd BiS for raid as is, why would flames be better than it?

strange python
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!wa

prisma monolithBOT
shut pasture
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morning said Crucible is better

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for some dung

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if not most

rigid mango
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Don't see how that's ever the case

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Since it does less boss, aoe and prio

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Unless I've missed something.

shut pasture
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can someone give me /mousover sap cast

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also idk but morning is the worlds highest rated assa

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i think

rigid mango
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Doesn't mean what he says is correct.

arctic walrus
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Huge feels to it

rigid mango
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If he has proof as to why, I'd be more than happy to learn

arctic walrus
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Like

rigid mango
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But as of now I see no reason what so ever why to use flames over blood

arctic walrus
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sure maybe you want more often on demand burst

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but meh

rigid mango
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as blood is the most versatile and nearly the best in every aspect for sin

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Might actually be the best, next patch.

desert kelp
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on azshara is it worth to multidot the adds at the start without subterfuge?

rigid mango
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Just start on whatever target you're gonna be following

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Apply full bleeds > apply on the target that you wont be hitting > back to focus

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pop cds on focus

desert kelp
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before or after vendetta?

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ah

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aight

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so the same way I was doing

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ty

rigid mango
honest vessel
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Huh I liked dots on off Target then swap to stay Target bleed and then vendetta, so I wouldn't have to put dots back up during the vendetta

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I'm sure it's minimal either way

next shore
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Im kinda new to rogue, Should we run Lucid as a Major? or a minor? currently i have Essence of the Focusing Iris(R2) and Lucid(R1) along with BotE(R2) currently only have 2 available slots atm, due to just now re rolling

arctic walrus
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usually lucid will occupy one of your minor slots permanently

next shore
#

So should i run bote as the major? or will FI still out weigh it? cus simming myself says i should run lucid and Worldvein both R1s over anything else... which seems odd imo

arctic walrus
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never consider worldvein when making your sims

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lucid gains a lot of power when you earn rank 3, so you need that asap

next shore
#

Gotcha, Thank you 🙂 and for my 3rd trait run bote minor i assume?

rigid mango
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I'd recommending simming

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Without complete r3's it's hard to determine what major/minors you should be using

next shore
#

Fair enough, Ill just assume it wont matter till anything is r3, Being im currently only doing heroic content and just re rolled to rogue about 2 weeks ago. So only like halfway to r2 on lucid cus i actually hate Nazj

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Cus i dont have flying cus im a lazy pleb

round verge
#

I’m a new af rogue and please explain. In 2s, when do we blind?

arctic walrus
round verge
#

I blinded off heal target and kept killing my kidney kill target and my healer freaked out on me and said “why would you blind?”

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Sorry

solemn meadow
#

cool new server icon bois

strange python
#

!essence

prisma monolithBOT
strange python
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How much dps increase is a 3rd essence? I currently only have 2 and we are going to progress court on sunday im sitting at 40k dps with my assa rn
Got a 405 dagger which i need to swap out (probably going to dungeonspam until i get a 440) my trinkets are kinda yikes but could the dagger + 3rd essence boost 8-10k in dps?

arctic walrus
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Like 1.5k-2k

strange python
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Fuck me

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what are your traits+stats?

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I have the shroud of unmooring whispers 430
Frothing rage 445 shoulders
And blackwater 445 chest

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Thats 2 double dose 2 loyal 1 envenom and 1 vendetta i believe in traits

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Might be wrong its 3 am here and i lie in bed and was worrying if i can make court on my rogur on sunday

rigid mango
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Sounds correct

fallow otter
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@strange python got a sim we can have a gander at to see anything obv?

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Sounds fine though

strange python
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Wait let me get out of bed give me 3 mins

rigid mango
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Everything seems up to spec

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Wearing what's best even though it's obv quite crap

brittle pawn
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how is ks supposed to be used on hulks?

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before binding? after?

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during?

rigid mango
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Use it instantly to maximize the instant value of it when people pop minor cds

brittle pawn
#

then binding after?

rigid mango
#

You can also just binding and 1 CP kidney for full 6 sec of damage amp

drifting cloud
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I usually just 2cp kidney after binding procs

rigid mango
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With hulks being so nerfed you shouldn't need to allocate that much damage

scarlet sequoia
#

doesn’t hulk get the thing when cc ends

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think you get fucked if you 1 cp kidney it on binding

cobalt pelican
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i still have no idea how it actually works

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kidney+kidney doesn't work kidney+bte does regardless of cps, binding+lowcp kidney works binding+highcp kidney works

drifting cloud
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you dont, ive always used kidney after binding procced even during prog

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but I used to do 5cp because I didnt know prey is same duration regardless

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and binding lasts longer than kidney

rigid mango
#

The coding is super whack

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Someone went over this the other day, certain abilities are coded in a way where they wont necessarily proc it

brittle pawn
#

that's why i saw this on reddit

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BtE on spawn -> binding on the path. Binding->BtE is incorrect, cuz all CC on hulk (including binding, warrior's root after charge etc) trigger enrage buff as the CC EFFECT EXPIRES, however BtE is NOT triggering anything, so use it.

drifting cloud
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yes theres some weird interaction with bte

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but this is the assa channel kekw

brittle pawn
#

i just assumed that bte and ks were interchangeable there

cobalt pelican
#

one uses gun

brittle pawn
#

we have an assn rogue, so i asked here

rigid mango
#

Unluckily blizzard can't code so KEKW

crude cargo
#

Wait...a short kidney at the start of the binding won't break the binding? I've been doing it at the end to avoid that

brittle pawn
#

as long as the binding is active

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kidney won't have any impact on it

crude cargo
#

Mind blown. Thanks, we weren't having issues with hulks but that makes it even easier

steep obsidian
#

hulks easiest part of the fight

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trying to get dh's to not fel rush into the beam hardest

crude cargo
#

Can confirm

iron slate
#

Do we just spam FoK on Orgoza Mythic or do we just keep to single target? Mix it up?

safe canyon
#

You just reminded me of the joy of FoK on final phase yogg 0 and faction champs for a few weeks. F deadly throw

arctic socket
#

!wa

prisma monolithBOT
fallow otter
#

@iron slate this is a raid choice, do you need add dmg or not

tardy heron
#

So I've held back from asking.. but I think I'm just going to outright ask lol. I've been simming gear "upgrades" from BiS lists.. and other than getting the benthic gear and better trinkets.. I can't really find why my sim-DPS and actual DPS is in lower 30s.. anyone mind taking a gander and see if I'm just missing something?

arctic walrus
#

this sim is looking at you having every buff and lust

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your damge on a dummy doesn't

tardy heron
#

I understand that much, and it's perfect scenario.. I meant like why my DPS is so.. low for my ilvl in general.

arctic walrus
#

what do you think is good for people your ilv

tardy heron
#

I'm not entirely sure to be honest

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I figured like 37-40k ish? or am I off? lol

drifting cloud
#

well vision of demise is actual dogshit for one

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you have triple r2 essences

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phial is not a st trinket

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and benthic is pretty big, subterfuge is worse than MA with proper azerite

tardy heron
#

Which azerite pieces/combo should I shoot for?

drifting cloud
#

your helm and chest are good

#

gorak shoulders or the ones from radiance if you can pug mythic would be nice

obsidian ruin
#

@tardy heron your trinket situation is dire & your essences are r2

tardy heron
#

trying Hard to replace those trinkets, and come next reset.. I'll have most essences at r3

drifting cloud
#

just the essences and a coral would probably put you over 40 easily

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you can get leatherworking

obsidian ruin
#

r3 is big for condensed

tardy heron
#

I'm maxed leatherworking, trying to get my ornaments now for 440s

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Condensed, I'm 12 shards shy of r3, so next reset/raid week I'll have it

drifting cloud
#

clf at r2 is probably not even your best major essence

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or well I know it isnt, so just a few small tweaks will make a huge difference on your sim dps

fierce comet
#

@tardy heron you should probably use master assasin if you are using double dose

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@tardy heron instead of subterfuge

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@tardy heron then you could also use tradewinds instead of shrouded on the shoulders

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@tardy heron typically you only use subterfuge when using a shrouded build in raid

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and you have triple double dose so just change your shoulders and use master assassin and it may help quite a bit

drifting cloud
#

thats not really how that works

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sure it might be a sim upgrade, but it wont be a huge difference

shy dust
#

just run top gear

drifting cloud
#

no clue what the value of tradewinds is

shy dust
#

with a combination of trade winds and MA selected

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its probably stronger than SS since its not a particularly strong trait

fierce comet
#

@drifting cloud all im saying is you don't wanna typically run subterfuge with one shrouded so you may as well take tradewinds

drifting cloud
#

I mean thats false aswell lol

fierce comet
#

@drifting cloud since its not a subterfuge build clearly and he has triple double dose which is good for master assassin

obsidian ruin
#

subterfuge should pull ahead as soon as u have at leasz 1xss

drifting cloud
#

there are some dogshit azerite pieces with ss on them out there which might make your subt sim higher than ma

#

even if you took the other option that isnt ss on them

shy dust
#

i wouldnt doubt trade winds simming stronger than ss though

fierce comet
#

yeah I'm just saying he might wanna look into it

drifting cloud
#

probably does, but its something i nthe realm of 200 dps

tardy heron
#

so.. question on the essences

#

you said until r3 CLF.. it's not my best.. I got focusing iris, lucid dreams, crucible, and unbound force

#

what would be better off until r3 clf?

shy dust
#

most likely crucible major

#

assuming rank 3

tardy heron
#

it's r2, but doing the quest now for r3

#

I didn't both with it before because I wasn't using it lol

#

bother**

shy dust
#

yeah if you get it to rank 3 itd be your best bet till rank 3 clf

drifting cloud
#

yeah clf is really bad outside of r3

#

not that crucible is amazing or anything for rogue, but still smokes clf out of the water for sure

obsidian ruin
#

try lucid major + crucible minor instead of clf too

tardy heron
#

okay

drifting cloud
#

you can jsut run a 30s sim for essence

tardy heron
#

oh right , lol

drifting cloud
#

wont matter much since youre just changing back next week but yeah

tardy heron
#

y'all are amazing, thanks for the help 🙂

#

but yeah.. my trinkets are trash.. well aware of that lol

drifting cloud
#

a heroic coral is just straight up like 1.5k dps for you from droptimizer

obsidian ruin
#

@tardy heron you used armory input for that quicksim earlier, you re aware of how you get inpu

#

for top gear?

#

that includes all your gear in bags & essences

tardy heron
#

Not really

#

get the addon?

obsidian ruin
#

dl the simulationcraft addon, dont worry you dont have to do anything with it
type /simc ingame and it will give you a string, copy that into raidbots

tardy heron
#

done!

obsidian ruin
#

then in top gear you can do all trait/essence combinations in one sim

tardy heron
#

seriously.. y'all are amazing

obsidian ruin
#

link sim when its done

tardy heron
obsidian ruin
tardy heron
#

yeah, I saw that trade winds for my SS

drifting cloud
#

levi why cant I import his input from his log but I can do it from yours

#

what am I missing

obsidian ruin
#

theres some config stuff from quick sim at the end of the string

#

basically gotta delete everything after last item

drifting cloud
#

oh you have to manually delete it? ok thanks

#

good to know

obsidian ruin
#

ye

jaunty arrow
#

Yo boyz any pro tip how to use font and coral on Mythic azshara?

modest tendon
#

Do people use VoP and Bote on that boss because of the convenient CDs?

ocean jasper
#

Afaik for Azshara it's still better to line up Vendetta with vanish so bote yes VoP no

tropic ocean
#

@jaunty arrow prechannel font, coral the mob u stick with, either release it for hulk or to burn on adds if u skip 2nd hulk

#

after decree channel font again and coral asap on azshara

#

after next decree channel font again and activate coral with vendetta on venomtonge

#

then just on cd and extract coral with vendetta

jaunty arrow
#

Than use coral on every ad? And before nether use font and start stacking coral?

tropic ocean
#

u use font and coral like in pins

#

with vendetta as I stated above

#

so no, only on first add usually

#

and then again on azshara p4 x2 (depending on ur killtime)

jaunty arrow
#

I mean i kill venomt than aply coral on azshara or next lady?

tropic ocean
#

on azshara

jaunty arrow
#

Ok ty dude

tropic ocean
#

ur font/vendetta will mostly be ready a little bit before u phase azshara in p4

#

so u hold it for bl on azshara

#

for me its usually 5~10sec

jaunty arrow
#

U have time before frst nether bait

#

So on 4phase start

tropic ocean
#

yeah

#

but ur vendetta/font will be ready 5~10sec before it so

#

u hold

#

heres killlog from yesterday can check usage of either me or other rogue

jaunty arrow
#

Ok

shrewd iron
arctic socket
#

I feel for your trinkets

shrewd iron
#

or that show's the damage breakdown? I wanna know how I sim that too 🙂

warm parcel
#

Its just quick sim

#

Any sim has it if you open the actual report tho

shrewd iron
#

Oh I see thank you @warm parcel

mental obsidian
#

is this the best opener currently? Before I quit halfway into EP there was different one

arctic walrus
#

ye

rigid mango
#

This one's been correct since before EP 😄

strange python
#

what happens if you refresh a normal garrotte with a stealth empowered one? e.g 10 seconds remaining, does the entire new garrote become empowered?

#

also what are the exact pandemic times for rupture/garrote?

rigid mango
#

It adds on a % of time it doesn't add on the end of the prev bleed

civic palm
#

pastes the pandemic paste and waits for zine

rigid mango
#

Paste it miz

civic palm
#

uhhh... 1 sec

#

It's in my gigaOld opener doc

rigid mango
#

It's also in the pins

civic palm
#

Course it is.

ashen solar
#

5.4 for garrote and 7.2 for rupture 5 cp

rigid mango
#

If you have a garrote ticking and you vanish > garrote w subt/ns on, you'll get a new bleed with pandemic that's fully added on

ashen solar
#

30% of applied duration

rigid mango
#

-Pandemic relates to reapplying buffs/debuffs. When a debuff is refreshed, its remaining time (up to a cap of 30% max duration) will be added to the new buff. Primarily used to give leeway to reapply bleeds, however can also be used to make bleeds last longer.

civic palm
#

Yeah that's good enough, the opener doc had a much longer version.

#

Taken from the Legion Aff.Lock guide.

rigid mango
#

Fair enough.

civic palm
# 
PANDEMIC EXPLANATION                                        
- The basic idea is that you want to refresh a DoT when it has 30% of its' base duration remaining or less: <= 5.4 seconds for Garrote, <= 7.2 seconds for a 4+ Combo Point Rupture, <= 2 seconds for Crimson Tempest.
- Refreshing before the 30% mark is not an immediate loss in DPS, and can benefit you if you are going into a Burst Window or there is required movement that would then stop you from being able to refresh during the more correct time.
- Reasoning: Most DoTs and HoTs can have its' maximum duration extended by 30% of the base duration (130% total). Whenever you cast a DoT or HoT you are increasing the duration of said DoT or HoT by 100%. Since you cannot rollover more than 30% of a DoT or HoT refreshing it under 30% means you will never waste time, whereas refreshing at over 30% duration means you waste time.
#

Same deal basically.

#

Just way too long to pin.

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

strange python
#

not sure if I'm dumb/illiterate but does that answer my question?

rigid mango
#

Yeah like I said

ashen solar
#

yes

rigid mango
#

It adds on a % not the physical bleed

#

Your new bleed, say it's snapshotted from subterfuge + ss

civic palm
# 
what happens if you refresh a normal garrotte with a stealth empowered one?

You Empower the Garrote.

does the entire new garrote become empowered?

Yes.

also what are the exact pandemic times for rupture/garrote?

5.4 for Garrote
7.2 for Rupture @ 4+ CP

rigid mango
#

Is now the regular garrote length + pandemic and fully empowered

strange python
#

got it, thank you

rigid mango
#

It doesn't literally transfer the bleed over to the next

#

it just adds on a cap of X seconds on top of the next one

civic palm
#

Just some simple addition of durations is all.

tardy heron
#

@arctic socket my dps feels for my trinkets too lol

arctic socket
#

Fonally got a font upgrade kekw

#

Fells good man

tall narwhal
#

grats

low bramble
#

!Essence

prisma monolithBOT
vast forum
#

@civic palm 6 sec for 4cp rupture, 7.2 for 5cp

civic palm
#

Yeah go ahead and time that, I can think of a dozen other near 1 second considerations that are pointless.

vast forum
#

i mean it's super easy to know how many CPs you're using and pool for 1.2 sec longer

#

doesn't sound insanely complex to me

arctic walrus
#

in the middle of a fight you're gonna recall something you did from 24 seconds ago and time it down to the tenth of a second

vast forum
#

that's not how pandemic works

#

you're gonna look at your own current CPs

#

and if you have 5

#

you're gonna use rupture at 7.2 sec remaining or less

#

and if you have 4 you're gonna use it at 6 sec remaining or less

#

regardless of how many CPs you used the previous rupture on

halcyon bloom
#

Guys Is wowanalyser actually accurate for raid fights or just a performance meter on patchwerk/training dummy kind of fight?

#

It points out things I can only justify with boss mechanics like overcapping energy on a boss transition I have no choice but wait like behemoth

rigid mango
#

It's not supported for sin

#

Wouldn't use it, post your logs here and people, me included, can review them

halcyon bloom
#

Awsome. I have a pretty idea where Im shit at and wana solve those first before bothering any1 else. I applyed for a guild and they linked me analyzer and pointed out things I couldnt explain other than mechanics and wanted to confirm I wasnt wrong

rare pond
#

it's clf for m azshara, right?

#

asking just 'cause I'm not sure with al lthe adds that need to die, if bote is good like it is on zaq

rigid mango
#

Bote for QA

rare pond
#

ty

rigid mango
#

Damage at the right times.

spare shore
#

!help

#

!spec

prisma monolithBOT
crisp hollow
#

do we know of any standout gear from the new raid yet?

arctic walrus
#

can you elaborate

crisp hollow
#

idk if i’m remembering wrong but like we kinda knew coral/font were gonna be big before AEP dropped

#

and which azerite to target

#

i already know barring any nerfs that spamming mechagon for rings is in my future lol

drifting cloud
#

from what I remember we didnt know coral would be big

crisp hollow
#

i guess if blizz has already emphasized that they’re putting “bis” traits on raid pieces that we can expect minimal trait re-balancing

#

tragic cuz i miss exsang more every day

marble hemlock
#

its a bit of a shame that we dont see new spec-specific traits every tier

#

i really liked getting to play around with EB and NP with BoD

#

id love to see scent of blood changed or replaced with something that fits the multidot/bleed gameplay better

arctic walrus
#

yeah new traits with new tier should've definitly been the standard

crisp hollow
#

i mostly just hate DD

#

pretty much anything that boils down to “your builder does more damage” seems lazy to me

#

make an Ace in the Hole equivalent that turns Kidney Shot into a nuke lol

#

“punch your opponent so hard they burst like a grapefruit, doing X damage and removing your bleed and poison effects for Y damage [remainder of their duration]”

#

call it Expunge or something

high quartz
#

quick noob question. If using Subterfuge I'm guessing the point is to put garrotes on multiple enemies before unstealthing?

arctic walrus
#

yes

#

you can get off 3

high quartz
#

ok thank you, what would u suggest to use for leveling?

#

since im mainly only taking on 1 mob at a time

arctic walrus
#

either of the other 2 should be fine honestly

high quartz
#

ok thanks for the help

arctic walrus
#

if anything I wouldn't suggest leveling as assassination to begin with

high quartz
#

ok thats fair

vagrant eagle
#

!essence

prisma monolithBOT
rocky ruin
#

I met yesterday a outlaw with folly who outdmg me in atal dazar +19. Is folly so strong for outlaw?

halcyon bloom
#

Folley for outlaw is huge and can do between 3 to 10% of their total damage

exotic rose
#

Hey guys, I just race changed my rogue to night elf but I didn't fully understood yet the interactions with stealth. If I shadowmeld, can I start walking and be in stealth? Or do I have to press stealth after shadowmelding? Do people usually macro that?

primal egret
#

Smeld isn't stealth, so you manually have to press stealth again

#

Maybe there is macro for that, dunno, don't play nelf

exotic rose
#

I tried macroing but it didnt work as I expected, it removed me from stealth. 🤔

#

#showtooltip
/cast Shadowmeld
/cast Stealth

cobalt pelican
#

macroing it doesn't work

#

you can kinda make a castsequence macro

#

but you'd have to press it twice and it's kinda janky sometimes

exotic rose
#

Why macro doesn't work? 🤔

#

I thought Shadowmeld is off the gcd.

cobalt pelican
#

it is

#

i'm not sure of the actual system workings of it but i assume it's like, if there's no delay in a macro the inputs get sent at the same milisecond and

#

at that milisecond stealth isn't like.. ready

exotic rose
#

I see

cobalt pelican
#

#showooltip
/castsequence reset=3 Shadowmeld,!Stealth

#

this is what i use on my alliance rogue

exotic rose
#

I'll give it a try, thanks.

brisk forge
#

Cant be that hard to push stealth manually?

#

😂

cobalt pelican
#

great input thank you

round verge
#

Very new rogue, learning the rotation and even with lucid dreams minor I find myself constantly energy starved. I try to fit in 2-3 envenoms during toxic blade but almost always have to go back to refresh rupture and at often I have no buttons to press.

#

Is this normal more or less to have no buttons to push?

cobalt pelican
#

it's a pretty slow spec, gets faster the more gear you have but it's never super fast

#

as long as you have poisons on your weapons

tropic ocean
#

use iris minor on st and it will get better

old knot
#

!wa

prisma monolithBOT
old knot
#

hey guys, my sims want me to literally go full on haste but i've noticed top rogues are gemming nearly full crit. is there a reasoning for this?

tropic ocean
#

theres multiple reasons

#

depending on encounter u get haste by bote

#

better azerite (overwhelming power)

#

more haste on items

#

with bis azerite u'll naturally have high haste/crit and decent mastery

#

so haste gets worse

old knot
#

i don't have bis but do have triple OP

#

for za'qul, does it make sense to prioritize less on haste then?

tropic ocean
#

if u go in multiple delirium sure

old knot
#

all right, that makes sense. thank you

austere scarab
#

!essence

prisma monolithBOT
twilit elk
#

!wa

tall narwhal
#

can i get all 3 azerite from rolling, for the 3ss 3eb build ?

rigid mango
#

Yes

#

Fluid machinations helm - pistoleers/gold tassel shoulders - blighted tribe chest

tall narwhal
#

aight y 😄

arctic walrus
#

That’s the only way to get that build actually

tall narwhal
#

i watched seliathan's runs this week so far

#

even for a tyrannical key he still takes CT over PB ?

#

is that a thing ?

rigid mango
#

Yeah

#

Even for tyr, trash is a majority of your time spent in a dungeon

#

Outside of ToS/Kr/siege it's worth taking ct

tall narwhal
#

isee

safe canyon
#

!wa

prisma monolithBOT
neon tendon
#

is there a pinned post with good weak auras?

rigid mango
#

Idk if ur trolling rn or what.

neon tendon
#

lol

rigid mango
neon tendon
#

my bad

rigid mango
#

Bruh.

neon tendon
#

i wasnt on the bot of the chat here

#

*bottom

rigid mango
rapid forum
#

why are so many people playing deeper stat on gorgonzola?

drifting cloud
#

its better on the pad build

rigid mango
#

Because with perma bleeds up like you can have, vigor doesn' do anything

#

You can, however, get perma 5-6 CP finishers off since all you're doing is fok'ing.

#

But this is ofc if you're playing the pad builds and care about logs > progress 😉

neon tendon
#

Im currently looking for a good wa for coral and font, cant find a good one

rigid mango
#

The combination of the two?

neon tendon
#

yes like that

rigid mango
#

Afaik there is none.

neon tendon
#

i have problems with tracking that

rigid mango
#

If you do, get a coral WA

#

Center it where you'll see it

#

and pay attention to when there's 6 sec left on the CD and press vend

#

It becomes second nature after a while.

neon tendon
#

yes i know, i got lucky and it dropped finally for me in mythic

#

and i fuck up badly with the timings

rigid mango
#

Myeh, especially if you're new to it I'd recommend just doing what I said and soon it'll be fine.

neon tendon
#

i just like coral and inkpot more

#

but in dmg its just worse i guess

rigid mango
#

The diff isn't that large

#

On a fight where you're hitting a boss the entire way

neon tendon
#

I still use inkpot for ashvane

rigid mango
#

Issue is just downtime, it loses value, and having more impactful burst windows has been a very good thing throughout the tier

#

A la ashvane, zaq, QA.

neon tendon
#

ye its very cool against ashvane

rigid mango
#

I meant that font might be better there, nowadays atleast.

neon tendon
#

my guild is not that good in dmg

#

me either

#

so i just abuse it

#

cleaver me

#

*clever

#

i wish crimson tempest would work with the passive

rigid mango
#

Would be broken as fuck.

neon tendon
#

Yes would be too op

#

one ct and you have energy for days

dark crag
#

3 phase ashvane with inkpod

drifting cloud
#

yeah back in early prog, nobody does that strat anymore theres no point 😛

dark crag
#

We now just lust in opener+ all cds

neon tendon
#

we lack the dmg for that 😦

dark crag
#

You get there someday

neon tendon
#

I dont think we will manage that in this patch

#

maybe next

#

but we are pretty casual

rigid mango
#

but you killed mythic QA?

#

or mythic ashvane?

neon tendon
#

we are at orgo at the moment

#

5%

rigid mango
#

Ah

crisp hollow
#

have they established what the best setup of raid azerite would be if you were to only wear nyalotha pieces?

rigid mango
#

Nope.

#

Aint got no sims yet.

crisp hollow
#

even going by current balance with those pieces, it looks like you gotta stack NP's if you want 3x OP lol

drifting cloud
#

I mean it will obviously be the 2 with +10 on them since they arent total trash, then whatever is left for the 3rd slot

#

you dont really have that many options

rigid mango
#

^

#

We'll have to see what happens with scaling

crisp hollow
#

oh i totally forgot last 2 encounters

rigid mango
#

If anything can ever win out over the 10 ilvls.

crisp hollow
#

are higher ilvl

rigid mango
#

But odds might just be that slithering loa helm is BiS

#

With like you said, the amount of NP traits around.

#

And no +10 on helm.

crisp hollow
#

damn the +10 traits are ugly

#

no OP, both with NP on second ring

#

1 ttk, 1 DD

#

gross across the board lol

rigid mango
#

Meh, new raid trait might be good.

#

Who knows.

crisp hollow
#

wouldnt mind it being optimal to have 1 of it like Loyal is now

rigid mango
#

Doesn't drop in value either so

#

PES_SadShrug Might be good
we'll have to see when sims come kicking.

hidden inlet
#

!help

rigid mango
#

Sup

hidden inlet
#

Is there a m+ specific guide that talks about azerite and talent choices? Looks like people don’t just stick to the one build all the time

tropic ocean
#

use any last row talent you like (2+eb for hidden blades) other talents are always the same

#

With cheat death switched to elusiveness for high tyran stuff like kings rest

pseudo hamlet
#

BotE > EotFI in M+? Haven't tried it yet.

rigid mango
#

Yes, bote is bis.

frosty lion
#

lads

#

can I ask about pvp

exotic rose
#

Hey guys, is there any of shadowmeld on the rotation?

strange python
#

Yo, how do you guys sim for m+? Multiple Patchwerks? Slice?

deep solstice
#

For the most part, if you have 3 SS, 2 EB 1 whatever or at least 3 SS you basically just want as much crit and mastery as you can muster for M+.

#

no sim is particularly useful @strange python

#

@exotic rose Shadowmeld would only be in the rotation if you are running subterfuge,

exotic rose
#

Got it @deep solstice

deep solstice
#

Technically it would be in if you are using SS....but I cant think of a situation you'd be running SS without subterfuge.

rain sparrow
#

Hey guys I’m currently progging on QA and I notice in logs nearly all rogues take blood of the enemy. I’m just curious what’s the reason they all do? And should I even though it’s a 1600 Dps downgrade?

deep solstice
#

We take it largely for the shorter CD and required burst phases. Also it will do like 700k just to the Devoted pack

#

The whole fight is basically meeting the dps requirement on the Phase 3 caster adds....so base your choice on how your guild is doing there.

#

Blood is better short term burst, CLF is better overall dps .....but CLF also doesnt line up in a useful way in P3 sometimes.

rigid mango
#

Whenever you see blood being used in a raid encounter it'll most likely be purely for the reason to enhance sin's already amazing 20> second burst window

#

I.e last two encounters.

#

Specific requirements of damage at diff times make blood the better option for progression, but would be an overall dps loss for logging later on, probably.

deep solstice
#

CLF is only going to be better on QA if your guild is capable of doing the burn strat....which very few are. And part of the burn strat usually requires Sin rogues and fire mages to burst....so you'd still run blood lol

rigid mango
#

Honestly at this point I could probably run CLF with no issues what so ever.

deep solstice
#

ya as long as the other dps on the adds are pumping. Blood does a lot more burst than clf

rigid mango
#

But since you get can get multiple hits of bote twice in the fight, it might even be better or an arguable diff in the end.

deep solstice
#

honestly I dont think CLF will be > blood anyway just because you get so much damage from blood on devoted pack

rain sparrow
#

I watched a video of a sin rogue killing QA and he didn’t worry about holding blood of the enemy for the devoted pack

#

If my guild already handles the devoted pack easily should I just use it straight away?

deep solstice
#

It depends which add your guild wants you to use your CDs on. If first add you cant hold it. If second or third then you can hold for devoted.

rigid mango
#

I never used it on the devoted pack so

#

You can just pump it at the start

deep solstice
#

Well if you are running blood and trying to parse you definitely want to hit the devoted pack

rain sparrow
#

I just want to kill it at this stage haha

deep solstice
#

then ya, if your guild has 0 issues with devoted just use for your ST rotation

rain sparrow
#

Awesome thanks for your help

tropic ocean
#

Using blood on devoted omegalul

#

and for burnstrat the pressure is more on the healers than on what essence rogues use (u still use blood)

deep solstice
#

burnstrat you generally have less dps on adds and more burning boss, so depends how your guild is handling the caster adds.

#

IE the Honestly 8 min kill they have 2 fire mages burn first, 2 sin rogues burn second, with just cleave to make up the rest of the dps

tropic ocean
#

honestly

#

the rogues dont burn add at all

#

XD

deep solstice
#

Both rogues bursted second caster

#

ah they have changed their strat since the last time I looked at their kill.

#

just cleaving now

tropic ocean
#

🤷

#

however the issue is not the add damage in burnstrat, but the healing required as you dont los azshara while killing adds

#

but rather tanking it on top of each other so everyone gets a lot of arcane missles

deep solstice
#

ya. I see they have stopped heroing on 3rd add as well. saving it for last phase now

#

It almost looks like Kiwi was running double Nothing personal with the amount of damage it did to 3rd add on that log

#

ah second add actually.

#

Still doing the same strat, just they swapped one rogue for the destro lock on second add

tropic ocean
#

e.g. they take around 100k raid dmg more per second

#

than my raid does while killing add

deep solstice
#

ya, it gains them almost 10% boss damage over not cleaving though

#

So great tradeoff if your healers can handle it

tropic ocean
#

besides that not many guilds will be capable dps wise, its also very intense for the healers

deep solstice
#

been trying to get my raid leader to move to that strat, but we still have a lot of trials and he wants to make them do mechanics lol

tropic ocean
#

I mean doing burnstrats if raid can handle it, its good

#

shaving of 2-3min for most fights

deep solstice
#

ya the only burnstrat we dont do currently is QA

#

Zaqul burn is really fun

tropic ocean
#

its really easy imo as well and for sin its good

deep solstice
#

Ya our healers just miss cd's on second manic dread a lot. And sometimes our tanks tunnel and miss punctures >.>

tropic ocean
#

also depends a bit on who gets send down with you

deep solstice
#

we send Spriest, BM, 2 SIn rogues

tropic ocean
#

if you cant use vendetta in first delirium peepochrist

deep solstice
#

how would you ever not get a vendetta in first delirium?

tropic ocean
#

by not having it ready when u go down from begin

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and you cant delay it cuzof echo

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😛

deep solstice
#

is your guild not hero / CD on pull or something?

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we dont even use vendetta on echo lol

tropic ocean
#

thats y I said it depends on who goes down with you

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since u dont use vision minor

deep solstice
#

ya I tried vision minor but not worth it

tropic ocean
#

its never worth dps wise, just used if u go down in 2 echoes

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but since u dont have it in zergstrat

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PROTOCOL!!!

deep solstice
#

ya for sure. I have actually been running Deeper for zerg zaqul as well

tropic ocean
#

I guess if you can go in delirium a lot its probably even very good

deep solstice
#

I think I am still top 20 mythic zaqul, so I'd say it;s good

tropic ocean
#

if only it came down to being deeper the sole reason for it 😛

deep solstice
#

well ya, just saying it is definitely viable on that fight

tropic ocean
#

I mean with correct killtime/crit rng u can probably do top 20 with master poisoner

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if you know what I mean

deep solstice
#

Eh, prob not with MP. EP is basically 10% dps on that fight

#

no crit RNG will make up for that lol

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but ya I get what you're saying

tropic ocean
#

I mean top parses are just so inconsistent

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like zaqul r1 to r2 is 10k dps difference

deep solstice
#

It is largely down to whether you get a BB proc with vendetta or not

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the rank 1 was padding with EB

tropic ocean
#

yeah but that aside

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1 has 32% envenom crit

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other 56%

deep solstice
#

ya down to procs really

tropic ocean
#

luckily its not as big for rogue as for some other classes but still

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u see it pretty good at first boss as well

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not really a difference in player skill just who gets best crit rng

deep solstice
#

for the most part. I def see differences in envenom / EP uptime as well on certain fights

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on the shorter fights if you dont get a BB on your opener you may as well give up on parsing though

strange python
#

Are those things relevant? I think they kind of conflict between uptime of those buffs and pooling for TB

deep solstice
#

we dont pool for TB this tier..... on CD

tropic ocean
#

eb/envenom uptime is naturally managed

strange python
#

is buffing your shitty downtime dps by 10% worth losing envenom inside your tb

tropic ocean
#

and pooling for tb is very minor

strange python
#

I feel its pretty significant, difference between 2 and 3 envenoms

tropic ocean
#

like yeah obviously u can use envenom shortly before eb runs out if u dont over cap but

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@strange python its not

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🙂

deep solstice
#

I mean a difference of 5% uptime on EB is roughly 0.5% dps....def makes a difference. A bigger difference than spamming 1 extra envenom per TB I would argue

tropic ocean
#

I mean sim just uses it on cd afaik so sometimes 2? sometimes 3? and also refreshs dots during tb and is blasting so

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very very minor

deep solstice
#

sim uses literally every CD on cooldown

rigid mango
#

Kinda, but it's also because it's optimal

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The diff between env counts inside of TB doesn't matter as much as people think

strange python
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when I say pooling FOR tb, i dont mean delaying it, if that is what you think i meant?

tropic ocean
#

I know what you meant

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it will make maybe 0.2 or smth like that difference

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in 99% of cases its better to just use on cd

rigid mango
#

Pooling itself is v minimal

tropic ocean
#

and dont give a shit

rigid mango
#

The APL barely does it

deep solstice
#

No I think you mean that you are holding energy back prior to TB, which in most cases means letting EB fall off

strange python
#

Exactly

deep solstice
#

EP*

rigid mango
#

You don't need to think about EP

strange python
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Thats what I was suggesting, to ignore the uptime in favor of more envenoms inside TB

rigid mango
#

Bingo, just ignore EP entirely.

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The gain from working around it is super minimal and arguable in worth

strange python
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Of course you can space out some finishers to stretch the uptime

rigid mango
#

Sure, but even then it's barely a gain 😄

strange python
#

Yep

rigid mango
#

Env matters a lot more

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All muts should be in env

deep solstice
#

the same is true of the pooling for TB, but the EP uptime is a lot more consistent, expecially on things with target swaps. Pure ST, ya pool for TB, but otherwise managing EP uptime is a better use of your time

#

30% bigger 1 envenom every 20 seconds is not much dps.

rigid mango
#

Pooling regardless or playing around buffs isn't really that big of a deal in any context anymore

ashen solar
#

I feel like the pooling discussion is the blood vs iris discussion of assa

rigid mango
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Which is kinda meh.

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Honestly I don't know, It's such a frequent topic lately I don't know why either.

ashen solar
#

Same lol

deep solstice
#

well if you are trying to be a top parser, it is important. IF you just want to play and do decent damage, then it doesnt matter, no.

rigid mango
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It really isn't

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😄

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Crit rng + kill timer matters way more

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You can play perfectly and get nothing

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and you can play ignoring it all and get a really good log

deep solstice
#

Kill time should not be very variable at this point for guilds on farm

rigid mango
#

Like I've been tryiing to say, pooling in any context is such a minimal gain

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Kill time can still fuck you oer

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Even if it's fast.

quasi pewter
#

kill times are still very variable rn too

rigid mango
#

Someone killing at 2 min will log worse than 2:25

ashen solar
#

In any pve game really, kill times are the biggest variable for dps

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Over the minimal gains you can make

quasi pewter
#

also guild inting by not lusting @pull on ashvane fucks you pepeclown

deep solstice
#

I mean my guild's kill times have varied at most 10 seconds the last several weeks....

tropic ocean
#

should start 1phasing ashvane

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with shaman loyal abuse

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🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡

deep solstice
#

I look at things the opposite way. You cant control crit RNG, or the other players in your raid (kill time), so just play as well as you can.

tropic ocean
#

well at least on the players part you can

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and its only for literally r1s

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95%+ you wont make or break a log from killtime solely

deep solstice
#

certain fights it will. IE Ashvane

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If you cant 1 phase you will not compete

quasi pewter
#

killtime is pretty huge for top parses yes

rigid mango
#

It's the biggest variable

deep solstice
#

there are exceptions to every rule though. IE most classes parse higher on Zaqul on longer fights

quasi pewter
#

first boss for example

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i had a 3 min fight which wouldve been 4k dps better if it was 20 seconds shorter

strange python
#

How do you guys time your font/coral casts on zaqul? I think casting font in the first deliriums descent feels good but then I would be able to cast razor coral only when my vendetta is over

rigid mango
#

We're talking sin here though.

deep solstice
#

I font as soon as it is up (guild is pushing faster than when we first did burn strat, so that is usually like 10 secs into first delirium)

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which actually hurts my parse lol

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On burn prob I was able to font while soaking delirium

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prog*(

quasi pewter
#

parsing on zaqul pepeclown

strange python
#

Not really worried about parsing, just hoping to kill it before next tier 😅

deep solstice
#

ah you are progging it still

tropic ocean
#

big brain on zaqul is

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just dont use font at all

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cuz its so annoying to use 😄

strange python
#

Yeah thats what I felt like too

deep solstice
#

I hate font, but it is just so far ahead of anything else

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dpswise

quasi pewter
#

just use font for first and coral for 2nd add

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imo

tropic ocean
#

and for killtimes as long as you dont kill a boss shortly before another vendetta use its pretty non important

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like in qa 9min or 11min

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barely a difference

deep solstice
#

It depends on your guild's timing A LOT on zaqul

strange python
#

Yeah we're doing the slow strat

deep solstice
#

IE some pulls when the whole raid has a good opener we are almost 15 secs ahead on timers

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others we are slow

#

Ah, so you are not even hero'ing on pull. Timers are all kind of funky on slow strat

quasi pewter
#

use everything on first dmg phase, font on first add coral on 2nd

strange python
#

Nope we wait until 2nd dread+tentacles and only then push p2

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Aight ill try something like that

deep solstice
#

our last kill I gibbed myself holding Coral....didnt use it until the very last vendetta.....104% crit. lolol

quasi pewter
#

i assume ur going down every time

strange python
#

Yeah

quasi pewter
#

actually no dont use on dmg phase

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use in delirium

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use font when ur standing in the thing on first delirium

deep solstice
#

ideally use in damage phase during delirium pog

strange python
#

Thats what Im currently doing, casting font in the descent pool, but then my problem is my coral wont be available until the end of vendetta

quasi pewter
#

just dont use vendetta immediately

strange python
#

I tried casting font before the first descent but the boss has 30% dmg buff at that time

quasi pewter
#

just wait ~10 seconds with vendetta

strange python
#

dont really want to spend 5 sec not doing dps when that is up

deep solstice
#

I'd suggest fonting earlier....if timer is lining up that you have everyting when delirium is being cast. font ~ 5 secs before delirium goes out

strange python
#

yea thats actually pretty smart, ill try that

deep solstice
#

then you can vendetta as soon as you are down, and coral ~10 secs into vendetta

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IE what we normall do

strange python
#

yea I tried that but im not sure how worth it was, with the timers we get the boss has the pool debuff just before the first descent

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Im not sure if its worth wasting 5 sec on font during that time

deep solstice
#

well, ideally you font when energy starved anyway, so you arent really wasting anything

quasi pewter
#

there is no reason to font earlier

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on first delirium

strange python
#

then again im not using tb or anything major because im saving them for delirium

dark crag
#

I am rank 1 boss dmg zaqul mythic

quasi pewter
#

you can use tb on dmg phase

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since u delay vendetta anyway

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if ur fonting in pool

dark crag
#

It's all about delirium phases

strange python
#

yeah fair point @deep solstice

deep solstice
#

But least subject to RNG strat is to do as SAryero is saying,. Font in the pool and just hold vendetta ~ 10 secs

strange python
#

Aight ill try both of those

deep solstice
#

as long as that isnt costing you a vendetta over the course of the fight it isnt a problem

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but ya, also no reason to hold TB....CD is super short

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it will be up during vendetta

strange python
#

Yeah im not really holding it but rather its coming up just as im supposed to stand in the delirium pool

deep solstice
#

ah, that is good timing actually then

strange python
#

I gotta head out thanks guys

dark crag
#

Full font is 30 sec, enough time to get vendetta up and coral a bit later

deep solstice
#

ya not fonting properly is the only reason I am not any higher on zaqul I think

#

Our timers change every week because people do better dps every week. zzz

tropic ocean
#

wdym people improve

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tell them to stop

dark crag
#

Do you go into delirium later on?

deep solstice
#

I go twice, first delirium and ~ 10-15 secs after manic

dark crag
#

So first echo

deep solstice
#

only echo 😄

quasi pewter
deep solstice
#

for slow strat, ya

quasi pewter
#

we reprogress every week

ashen solar
#

just join honestly, s p e e d

deep solstice
#

Fast strat curve

dark crag
#

But have you r1 boss dmg?

quasi pewter
deep solstice
#

nah, I run deeper strat so I am rupturing adds in P1 to not energy starve outside delirium

rigid mango
#

Any greyloggers? pepeSchemeSip

deep solstice
#

my best was rank 13 boss damage

arctic walrus
#

Saryero washing up

#

Smh my head

quasi pewter
hidden bay
#

did someone say greyloggers?

deep solstice
#

I may have to stop memeing with Deeper strat tho, other rogue in my guild is rank 3 boss damage

quasi pewter
#

didnt even use coral

dark crag
quasi pewter
#

woops

deep solstice
#

I also didnt have benthic gloves until today..........so..........that should help

dark crag
#

I now updated my % wa to scream when reaching 31% hp

deep solstice
#

ah you run inkpod?

rigid mango
#

You shouldn't even use coral for inkpod as sin

#

😉

#

Better to just use it with vend

deep solstice
#

If you got an inkpod crit during puncture your boss dps makes sense lol

distant lava
#

@quasi pewter benthic 12% dps, BROKEN kappa

quasi pewter
#

zine's daily coral inkpod usage post

rigid mango
dark crag
#

Also staying in the echo delirium alone until boss is dead helps

#

Now these dot spreading ranges want to get a piece of the cake

deep solstice
#

ya now that I actually have 1 useful defensive trait I generally stay in delirium 2 until boss dies

hidden bay
#

@rigid mango do we pool energy before toxic blade? can u explain pls