e.g. if you have issues in zaqul with horrific visions outlaw can help
#assassination
alpine dirge
I see, ok thx for explanations 🙂
tropic ocean
assassination is commonly used during progression as you often need high st or burst dmg to push something
crisp hollow
slithering loa head is really good right?
rigid mango
Yep
crisp hollow
nice
kind eagle
Double dose or twist the knife on my new helm's outer ring
tropic ocean
double dose for st
modest tendon
Anybody else rate the VoP minor+NP build? It feels so good to play
modest tendon
ToS
modest tendon
It makes vendettas line up in much more convenient places
Sure maybe I could loose the NP
rigid mango
It's useful because it aligns with bote better for tyr fights
getitng another vend off
I mean tbf
The NP might not be that bad
3 ss 2 eb 1 np
modest tendon
That’s the build I’m using
modest tendon
I’ll have to mess around with some sims
rigid mango
Doesn't sound entirely bad.
You'll lose a couple thousand or so on overall probs
but sounds decently refined
modest tendon
Well, you can make several boss fights safer
modest tendon
Ye, vanish on trash is always a good thing anyway, it means you can save vanish on boss mechanics too
Well you should be doing it anyway
But it doesn’t interfere with your rotation as much
If you know what I mean?
modest tendon
I think it’s sold me, will be taking it into high ToS and KR from now on
rigid mango
You should get second vend in there w/out an issue
modest tendon
I use coral anyway
Don’t have better
But ye you can get 10 coral stacks between vendettas
rigid mango
Just means you get the 2nd vend off on fort
you don't always do that
and if you do it's sometimes quite the waste
You like, finish it off with it which is just whack in a lot of scenarios
rigid mango
Was never bad 
harsh sphinx
again?
modest tendon
Well S1 it was sick right?
I actually don’t know, could barely push 10s in S1 lol
Actually ignore me it’s always been as good as it is
rigid mango
It's always been good
modest tendon
Only spec that hasn’t really changed right?
rigid mango
Build has changed, EB was introduced
Kinda has, but essentially works the same, ish.
vestal wren
onyl with enough targets and eb traits
strange python
PayDay must really like FoK spam 😄
deep solstice
Anyone have the name of the Benthic gloves handy?
rigid mango
Poen's something
deep solstice
Poen's Deepsea Grips. Thank you.
modest tendon
everyone likes doing damage right?
strange python
Not really there are things only rogue can do. I personally like CC-ing more than just dpsing.
modest tendon
.... Cant tell if your being serious
lone junco
Cc is just slowing down the fun.
strange python
Legit serious. Don't you just get the thrill when you can Blind the caster when its about to cast or Kidney shot when something is going to do AOE cone?
tropic ocean
pretty sure theres more classes with cc
strange python
Is there? IDK I leveled my rogue from 1 to 110 and thats my first class. Its just super great to be annoying
What do you think is better actually assa or outlaw in m+
prisma valve
for what dungeon tbh
can't go wrong with outlaw, but assassin has some dung and affixes it excels in
strange python
I play assasination only. I tried outlaw - maybe I am rerolling too much (?) - did less than what my Sin rogue would do.
tropic ocean
outlaw excels in every dungeon
prisma valve
assassin does more single
yeah, I guess I should phrase it differently
outlaw excels in every dungeon, but assassin has some situations where it is better
strange python
Maybe try out all 3 specs. If you feel comfortable with a particular spec, play it.
I feel like assasination can work or maybe do higher than outlaw if tank can pull accordingly.
arctic walrus
outlaw > sin >> sub
strange python
Oiii
arctic walrus
in m+
strange python
That’s why I’m asking
prisma valve
I think I heard sub is only good if you have 1 prio target surrounded by some other targets that doesn't need to die or something
rigid mango
That's essentially their toolkit, yeah.
arctic walrus
toolkit that nobody cares for 
strange python
So it’s bullshit that assa Is on average better then outlaw?
LS?
Oh, Is , is
Yeah autocorrect
arctic walrus
sin is not better than outlaw in m+. however it is not wildly behind
rigid mango
OUtlaw s+, sin is s
strange python
Prob depends on the player, too. If I compare myself to newbie outlaw, sin is better. But then again who really is a good rogue player
strange python
Yeah I noticed xF#D
That
I dont get it
Its like me trying to get 2+ buff trying to do a dungeon as outlaw
Every single buff is sad
tropic ocean
not for this channel but, just look at ravenholdt reroll logic
strange python
It was just a comparison 😄
strange python
do crucible and other essences get benefit from vendetta?
rigid mango
no
crisp hollow
I got some shit for not holding vendetta until CLF on a 3:20min fight, even though the pin says its irrelevant; whats the verdict on whether or not I hold if not missing casts?
rigid mango
If you wont lose a cast from holding CLF to vend, it's a very minor dps increase
As the haste from clf is nice for vend
but it's small, very small.
arctic walrus
you wouldn't really get full benefit on such a short 3 minute fight anyway
it would've been better to use, considering having to set up for your font/coral
strange python
Are you supposed to use toxic blade on cd even if u have 5 combo points?
arctic walrus
ye
bronze wagon
I see some people running conflict minor for assassination instead of focusing iris on queens court, any idea why? my guilds progging on queens tonight
arctic walrus
Because if you're getting a high log you are probably going in between more often than not, which means you would drop iris more often. So you take strife
bronze wagon
ahh that makes sense
strange python
does toxic blade increase dmg of heed my call and/or temple of sethralis nature dmg trinket?
fathom wyvern
@arctic walrus alot of people use strife for the extra vers for survival too on progress, but what big said is why they use it for dps
bronze topaz
is inkpod affected by toxic blade?
drifting cloud
no
arctic walrus
@strange python no
rigid mango
TB is limited to rogue abilties, so is vendetta.
wintry trout
I assume nothing personal is not boosted by tb
honest basin
Do we always keep the SS/EB build in M+ even on tyrannical weeks or is it better to go for a raid-ish build with SS + TTK and ST stats to take care of the bosses ? I'm aware it can depend on the comp but lets assume the comp is fairly equal on both AoE and ST damage, then what's the best choice ?
crisp hollow
Seli's been running 1 EB 3SS every time I tune into his stream so I'm gonna assume thats the way to go, probably using PB instead of CT for tyran weeks
but im scurvy-ridden outlaw player in keys so definitely get a second opinion on that
honest basin
I've looked a couple times but not enough to know if the other traits he had were chosen regarding a specific affix or dungeon
rigid mango
@wintry trout it is
wintry trout
@rigid mango thank you.
hushed maple
Hey guys. I started the game again 2 weeks ago and currently use 2 Sets. 1 is sin for raiding and the other for Outlaw in m+. I am getting kinda annoyed by rolling my shit allday and want to ask, how big the damn Outlaw difference to sin is in m+
My record key is a 15 intime but I had to roll a whopping 36 times on the first boss
rigid mango
you're gonna be rolling everything over if you pick sin for m+ anyways.
arctic walrus
You're annoyed by having to reroll gear
You have to reroll sin gear constantly if you want it for both m+ and raid
Unless you get twice the amount of azerite
hushed maple
...no I bother to roll the damn bones
rigid mango
Outlaw is better, sin isn't much worse.
rigid mango
Fuck if I know
You can't "put it in %"
You're obviously not at the level it matters, play what you want.
🤷
Both are really good.
hushed maple
Well yeah thats true I am not a 2.9k rio player so min maxing probably isnt really a thing for me anyway BUT I am a sweaty guy
I just dont want to lose too much dmg 😄
arctic walrus
You don't lose damage from rerolling btw, no matter how shitty it feels
So if you're doing bad in outlaw, that's just on you
Sin is just gear dependent
hushed maple
well doing my normal finisher instead of rolling doesnt grant me dmg? that feels strange indeed
Nah I am not doing bad in Outlaw, actually. I just feel super useless by rolling the bones like a maniac, because I dont get crit or double buff
arctic walrus
okay like, minimal loss
arctic walrus
But then you'll go sin and say you feeel useless when your tank chain pulls and you can't restealth
rigid mango
Either way, not the channel.
arctic walrus
each spec has their own shit to hate 
rigid mango
Play what you pref, outlaw is better, that's the tldr.
hushed maple
Is Sin in dungeons still going for 3x SS, 2xEB and 1xttk?
tiny finch
Sup guys! im confused about toxic blade benefits with the double dose trait. Is it better to fit more mutilates or envenons on the TB window?
arctic walrus
nothing beats out envenom damage
vast forum
is it ever really a choice between those 2 tho?
mild obsidian
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gt5QfjjfazcA7NDSvXUdWZ
Is my 435 with SS/TtK seriously that much better than my 420 with DD/SS? My sims are showing a 200 dps difference which seems nuts
tropic ocean
Choice made
mild obsidian
how is DD not easily handling TtK with a 10 ilvl difference
mild obsidian
hm okay
tropic ocean
So yes 435 ttk very likely >> 420 dd
arctic walrus
dd is pretty meh because you have 2 ss anyway
icy ember
yo for outlaw vs sin, I raid w/sin, (dd/np/loyal/ttk/BBI)/single target only, and I do M+ as outlaw
changing specs once or twice a week, sometimes for orgooa and zacool i go outlaw, but thats it
rigid mango
Soo, what's your question?
icy ember
there isn't a question, i was reading some stuff above and just felt it was necessary to comment 
rigid mango
arctic walrus
@rigid mango I play with some azerite traits, and these 2 trinkets
rigid mango
arctic socket
You ever dps with trinkets
chilly marsh
Shard of the Black Empire: Your attacks have a chance to spawn a tentacle which Mind Flays your target for 10930 Shadow damage every second for 10 sec.
arctic socket
Damn
hazy geyser
110k damage over 10 seconds isnt bad but given that we are already getting 100k dps spikes on openers it probably wont be that good
But the 10k dps increase is nice
chilly marsh
kind of 200k because you will use 2
arctic socket
I mean the chance on hit is nice and the stats it comes with are pretty nice
arctic socket
To me depending on gear seems like a good off hand dagger
chilly marsh
wowhead dint had a scalling thing ?
trying to see the 475 dmg
found it
Equip: Your attacks have a chance to spawn a tentacle which Mind Flays your target for 14450 Shadow damage every second for 10 sec.
at 475
icy ember
ha that was what stood out to me as well, i n t e r e s t i n g
mild obsidian
So whats my opener using lucid dreams? Garrote>Rupture>Garrote>Vendetta>TB>Envenom>Mut>Mut>Envenom>Vannish>Garrote>Garrote
Do I put it in before the two Muts?
mild obsidian
kk
chilly marsh
you dont have any other to use major?
near nacelle
dagger drops from caparace, rip
mild obsidian
I thought Lucid was hella good for Sin?
drifting cloud
as minor
distant halo
Do we actually use any of the benthic gear at max ilvl? I’m coming back to wow and doing my research. Is the benthic stuff actually better than a higher ilvl piece of raid gear or is it just a guide on what benthic to get as you level?
arctic walrus
4 of the benthic pieces are very strong, and last you until you can get 450+ socketed items at times
distant halo
So 450 + socket is the breakpoint? Otherwise I should follow and upgrade the benthic pieces on the list?
I know simming is the answer but I’m just doing a chart for myself on what I need to do
drifting cloud
im 8/8 mythic I still use all 4 benthic pieces
vast forum
i'm pretty sure benthic is bis for raid regardless of ilvl (at least on boots+bracer)
drifting cloud
so yeah theyre pretty strong
vast forum
belt i'm not 100% sure
gloves i'd use the azshara ones if you can get them at high enough ilvl+socket but benthic is a good starting point
drifting cloud
you can replace gloves with azshara gloves, but the rest are pretty hard to replace and will be minor upgrades
distant halo
Awesome Thankyou for the clarification
vast forum
any1 not lazy can do a benthic belt sim vs a 455 socket? 😄
drifting cloud
keep in mind benthic only works in this raid, we are ditching them 1st chance we get in 2months when next tier comes out
so probably not worth spending all that time farming pearls
distant halo
Ooo okay that’s something I’ve missed. I’m a key pusher just prepping for 8.3 and just wanted some basic gear. I think now you’ve said that I’ll just avoid benthic all together since I don’t really care about raid this tier
drifting cloud
yeah you dont need/want benthic in m+
distant halo
I just can’t believe how much has come out since 8.2. It’s awesome but also overwhelming at times
drifting cloud
yeah it was a pretty big patch, 8.3 will be smaller
distant halo
It’s insane. Gone for three months and it’s like a brand new game.
arctic socket
You’re able to take big breaks now and get caught up pretty quickly depending on your luck but some of the catch up mechanics are phew (necklace)
distant halo
Yeah it’s looking alright for the grind it’s just ALLOT of new stuff out that I’ve seen seen before
arctic socket
Yeah a good bit was added and it’s definitely fun
rose ember
arctic walrus
Nobody's going full mastery
arctic walrus
Okay, you can specify for m+
golden lintel
Is there an issue with Raidbots? It seems to keep suggesting I stack Twist the Knife traits over Double Dose? I thought that we got no real benefit from stacking Twist the Knife? Or am I missing something here?
golden lintel
Well yeah its not a bad trait
But like I do simulations to compare azerite traits on my gear to see what it suggests as being higher dps
And it goes for Twist the Knife over Double Dose
My understanding was that we didn't need to stack Twist the Knife
arctic walrus
Sure, the general majority won’t be doing that. Again, link the sim. Because I doubt this is a one dimensional issue
Damage is damage. Doesn’t matter what trait you’re getting it from
golden lintel
One moment then while I bring it back up
I am wondering if its due to the blight trait perhaps
drifting cloud
how did you manage to make this dd vs ttk
theyre 2 totally different azerites
one is 15 ilvls lower
arctic walrus
Okay but wtf is going on all over the place
drifting cloud
half your talent are also wrong
golden lintel
Really?
arctic walrus
golden lintel
Well that would be an issue as well
rigid mango
Never marked for death
golden lintel
Yeah I am getting back into the game 😦
drifting cloud
you can get crucible 3 at rank60 or something
golden lintel
Trying to claw together enough stuff
arctic walrus
Go to silithus and take the quests
drifting cloud
you just have to actually go do the quest
golden lintel
Yeah on the to do list atm
drifting cloud
but to asnwer your question yes, dd will pretty much always beat ttk 1v1
golden lintel
Okay I'll go with one ttk and 2 dd I think
golden lintel
But first I'll need to fix talents
Gear is not ideal either as I mained outlaw for most part previously
drifting cloud
but you need to get correct essences and talent first
instead of doing a deep dive into azerite traits, gotta start at the basics
then you just sim
golden lintel
Yeah well with wrong talents (of which I am going to have words with my friend) the traits will be borked
drifting cloud
but yes your shoulders, the other 2 traits they have are very good
so even with ttk they will beat alot of shoulders of the same ilvl
golden lintel
Yeah
So should I just use the talents from http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/#tal ?
drifting cloud
and ttk is still a decent trait, just not top3, but like I said what matters is the combination of all 3
yes, all the talents except lvl 30 are pretty fixed for assa st
golden lintel
Yeah like I said my understanding was that is not a bad trait its just that stacking it gives no increase to the duration
golden lintel
Which makes it not ideal to stack vs other traits
drifting cloud
like I said you are honed in too much on ttk
you can have near bis azerite setup with 2 ttk
because the other 2 traits just cover the slack of ttk
golden lintel
yeah okay
Okay talents are fixed running 2212121 atm
So in terms of the lvl 30 talents do we just sim that line based on our azerite traits?
Or is there a specific selection criteria
rigid mango
If you have any ss traits = you take subterfuge
golden lintel
ah okay
slow mountain
so i know you want to get 2x envenoms in your TB window, but if your rupture is about to fall off to you refresh it during ur TB or hold TB for 6-8ish seconds
or let rupture fall off
drifting cloud
you refresh it
slow mountain
so then you just get 1 envenom and its a feelsbadman
distant lava
Yes but its a bigger loss to let rupture fall for more than 2 ticks iirc
During TB
And im pretty sure you're supposed to get 3 envenoms in
And if you get fucked 2
drifting cloud
nah you cant get 3 in everytime
slow mountain
3 with vendetta or lust
turbid zealot
if you pool for tp you should be getting 3 no probs
distant lava
Depends on crit rng
slow mountain
i just feel that the rupture falling/TB coming up lines up alot
whats the max you should hold TB like 3-5 secs
turbid zealot
depends for what your holding it on 2 for
slow mountain
well like i said the scenario where tb is coming up in like 7 secs, and rupture has 9ish secs left, so you refresh it and cant pool for TB
turbid zealot
well you go into tb with what ever you have then
pearl pagoda
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
pearl pagoda
afenars WA is the only one i aesthetically like but it seems like it drops my frames a bit
i say that and i just udated it, and now the combo points are slightly askew
fml
hushed maple
https://gyazo.com/27e8a5652ace6e23c38cf3213000972f is this a good trait setup?
scarlet sequoia
its very big burst at least
scarlet sequoia
ye its fine
rigid mango
It's subpar for p much every boss unless you're speedkilling, still fine.
modest tendon
I think I saw Seli using ttk+ss on his shimmerscale because they didn’t have enough loyal to the ends in raid for it to be worth it
molten folio
how accurate is the dungeon slice sim for assa ? or how should i sim, i dont raid so i rly only care about m+ output
modest tendon
Sucks donkey dick, use Fuu’s custom one instead
molten folio
where can i find that ?
modest tendon
Wow-general pins
molten folio
oh ty, btw anywhere i can read up on essence choice? didnt rly find to much info on icy veisn for assa in m+
modest tendon
M+ go blood major, lucid minor, then crucible/pp/c&s or VoP depending on what you want/have
Iris major also works fine
And minor
Not lucid major lol
molten folio
ah , ty alot , btw am i dumb or do i need to change something in the custom script for the d slice sim? i just get
"Custom APL has invalid commands. Only "actions" commands are allowed"
modest tendon
Advanced sims, dump your simc then paste the paste bin
molten folio
oh , so u cant do it in custom sim during a top gear sim? or am i understanding wrong xD
modest tendon
I don’t believe so maybe ask the man himself @vestal wren
vestal wren
the custom fight script only works in advanced sim
modest tendon
Ty
molten folio
aah okok 😄
spark saddle
How many targets do we need with 3x EB to use fok over muti if we only consider priority damage? So all damage done to the other targets is not meaningful? Is it still 2?
arctic walrus
Your mut damage is pretty shit with no DD. Yes eb at 2 targets because you can get off more envs as well
I think 
rigid mango
If you want prio damage it'll be way higher target count
modest tendon
Should get someone to pin this or something, I think with 3eb it’s 6-7 targets you can mongo fok
modest tendon
I should read before I talk
rigid mango
And it's about builder not spender
kindred stirrup
Hi. During the Queen's court fight, does cloak of shadows protects you from deferred sentence if you are buffed when it occurs ? (sorry for clunky english)
i mean, is the debuff not applied if you are under cloak ?
distant lava
It prevents it from discharging iirc
kindred stirrup
you mean it prevent the damage ?
because i'm talking about the debuff itself, not the damage it deals
i know for a fact that if a mage is under iceblock when the decree occurs, they don't take it
what about cloak ?
umbral folio
guys, what is wrong with wowlogs, where is our allstar points?
rigid mango
Wdym wrong with allstar points`?
hm ye they're gone
Nukkz is rank 1 afaik anyways.
umbral folio
yes, but no1 cant see this
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
hushed maple
!wa
Yo guys...since the guide isnt really clear about it: What is the best overall essence combination? I am currently using Perfection as major, Iris and Lucid dream as minor. I am 900points away from getting blood of the enemy on lvl 2
modest tendon
For what type of content?
arctic walrus
You will not be using blood unless it's rank 3
rigid mango
Visions of perfection is one of the worst majors you can pick 😉
brave vector
For raid CLF,lucid,Iris for the most part @hushed maple a lot of people use blood major depending on the fight. For m+ I personally use blood, lucid, strife
That's assuming everything is rank 3, for everything else 
hushed maple
well I started just recently so I dont have any lvl 3 besides crucible of flames
^^
condensed lifeforce is getting lvl 2 today, finally ^^
brave vector
CLF isn't really good until r3 as a major, better off sticking to crucible3
hushed maple
oh boy...the essences are nice but this grind for newcommers is awfull lmao
sweet inlet
does anyone have the Essence Azerite Power Weights?
rigid mango
Huh?
lucid basalt
on ST is it better to mutilate - rapture - mutilate - garrote - rapture - mutilate - CLF - vendetta - toxic blade - vanish - envenom orr Mutilate - rapture - mutilate garrote - CLF - vendetta - vanish - toxic blade - envenom ?
rigid mango
You do
lucid basalt
or it depends what combo points you get?
rigid mango
Mut rup mut gar if 1st mut is 4cp
Mut mut rup gar mut if it's not
And yeah, CLF > vend > tb > vanish on both
lucid basalt
so if 1st mutilate is 4 CP i go 2nd one
but if 3 cp i go another rapture than burst
brave vector
You don't rupture twice in your opener
hushed maple
Sad, that the guide doesnt write a essence rotation tbh
rigid mango
Huh?
lucid basalt
lucid basalt
so basicly i what i do is mut - rap - mut - gar - CLF - vendetta - vanish - toxic - envenom
instead of this right?
rigid mango
What log is that from
lucid basalt
shivarra
rigid mango
The rank one doesn't do that.
umbral folio
no, mut - rap - mut - gar - CLF - vendetta - toxic - vanish - envenom
rigid mango
And yes, that's poor play
lucid basalt
whats the difference on this 2 openers
rigid mango
ok let me
1 sec
if first mut is 4 CP
Mut
Rup
Mut
Gar
CLF
Vend
TB
Vanish
If first mut ISN'T 4cp
Mut
Mut
Rup
Gar
Mut
CLF
Vend
TB
Vanish
There you go, that's the correct openers.
hushed maple
lmao you mutilate even tho you have 4CPs?
brave vector
No
brave vector
That's not what zine wrote lmao
umbral folio
sure
rigid mango
Yes, you TB before vanish
vast forum
i think vanish-tb and tb-vanish are both pretty equal with CLF
rigid mango
They're pretty much equal yeah, but tb vanish is better
hushed maple
well in the ISNT one, there is 2 mutilates
brave vector
Oh yes there is
lucid basalt
i remove my char if firt mutilate is not 4cp
vast forum
i also still strongly believe that mut-env-mut-gar-rup-clf-vend is the best opener but idk 😛
rigid mango
Yeah because the first mut isn't 4 cp
Sim it, might be better what do I know
this is what we know from current sims
vast forum
the difference is so marginal
but i just like the feeling of putting an additional envenom into the MA window
rigid mango
Yeh ofc
vast forum
and if you have hero on pull, you overcap energy anyway
rigid mango
I mean the thing is it's probably never been simmed
because of how the apl is written
vast forum
yea
i just cba writing apl
i just play that way and it feels good and it can't possibly make a big enough difference
brave vector
No
lucid basalt
you lose atleast 1 cp
rigid mango
Where?
vast forum
you do
rigid mango
2nd mut isn't guaranteed to be 4 cp
vast forum
tbh it happens more often than not 😛
lucid basalt
its not guaranteed but most likely happenbs
vast forum
and if TB crits, it's still an overcap
rigid mango
vast forum
with my opener
you don't overcap
or you're FAR less likely at least
and you get that additional juicy envenom
no sim to back it up but napkin math and feelycraft check out
rigid mango
Thing is you need to probably fit another mut after your rupture
and/or before it too
lucid basalt
bro im getting confused
vast forum
?
vast forum
you can do the sim one and do just fine
rigid mango
just ignore whatever we say now
vast forum
but i think mut-env-mut-gar-rup should net you a 5cp rup most of the time
and sometimes a 4cp which is also fine
lucid basalt
and on 2nd font i cast it on cd but wait to line -up with coral right?
rigid mango
Read the paragraph there
Yah but after your rupture you're going into tb w presumably 0 cp
vast forum
my simplified explanation of font + coral would be:
font RIGHT AFTER a TB when vend has <20 sec remaining on CD
brave vector
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
vast forum
i don't TB first global in vend usually
brave vector
Ah doesn't have raid use bleh
vast forum
i go vend-mut-TB
rigid mango
Coral is diff with font
vast forum
so yea 1 additional mut but no overcapping
rigid mango
idk sounds mega coinflip
but like
I told him to go there
there's no reason to copy paste it here
there's a reason it's there and not here 
It's even directed to there in the pins.
brave vector
Oh woops I thought you meant there was a paragraph there on why not to open mut > envenom > mut
hushed maple
going 2x activation trinkets is bad, right?
arctic walrus
Not when they're the right ones
hushed maple
so Azshara and Coral is fine? ^^
bright tusk
Yes pamysia, on many bosses that's perfectly fine.
Font during prepull, stealth, pre-pot, coral on cd
Question:
For mythic orgozoa I have 2x EB, 2x TTK, 2x SoB, I'm using major BotE, minor lucid and iris. All rank three.
Most top assa rogues on orgozoa is using strife, but I only have lvl1, so should I keep current essences or replace iris with rank2 VoP?
Hard to sim this..
bright tusk
Oh yeah PP I meant insteaed of "VoP", so should I go PP rank2 or rank3 crucible?
bright tusk
could anyone give me some advice here? O.o
rigid mango
You should go standard ST
shy axle
are you trying to always clip EP or do you just take the buff as it comes not really trying to minmax that aspect?
sometimes i do, sometimes i don`t, unsure
hushed shuttle
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
wise sun
is sin the go-to raiding spec for rogues this tier?
rigid mango
Yes
@shy axle doesn't really matter, you play nearly ideal by entirely ignoring it, miniscule dps increase
shy axle
ok thought so, thanks
shrewd iron
I usually open on Sivara like this Font >mutilate>rupture>mutilate>garrote>vendetta>TB>Vanish>Enveom but since I got to know CLF boosts Vendetta dmg is it worth to pop Vendetta like 5 seconds later and pop CLF before?
I play MA btw
shrewd iron
It's like 5% more haste or something right?
hazy geyser
for CLF i usually pop it right after vendetta
hazy geyser
or even before it sometimes the dps gain is almost non-existent
rigid mango
Always clf before vend.
hazy geyser
i am too used to playing blood on azshara now
shrewd iron
So then it's worth to pop CLF before Vendetta? I'm confused
rigid mango
Yes? You always pop it before.
shrewd iron
Ok thank you
shrewd iron
Ok
hazy geyser
yeah you ideally never want to hold anything
rigid mango
Ideally you hold clf to align with vend if the kill timer allows for it
shrewd iron
Ok thanks 🙂
worldly yarrow
Hey folks. I guess that's a good place to ask for this, as I've done my homework on dummy. My sin dmg is sub-par. I've fixed my talents, Azerite pieces are decent, been cranking my uptime on bleeds, pooling energy b4 TB envenum, and I am still doing 10K less than patchwerk sim on dummy (~38k when simming at 47k). I am doing something wrong. Any idea if anything obvious? Returning to Sin here.
rigid mango
Have you got any logs, are your poisons applied
what traits do you have, what talents, what weapons, what trinkets
arctic walrus
You won’t be doing your sim damage btw
worldly yarrow
Ok, expectations on dummy are wrong?
rigid mango
You wont be doing sim damage since you wont have all the buffs etc
arctic walrus
And you’re not in naz
arctic walrus
Link the sim
worldly yarrow
give me a sec
(thanks folks, for takign thet ime to do this)
running quick sim rn: HoA all rank 3: CLF, EotFI, CoF. Azerite: 3 DD, SwS; NP, TtK, 3 OverP.
Cookie cutter MA build
Incoming sim (short version)
worldly yarrow
Ok man, brb
arctic walrus
What realm are you on
worldly yarrow
Skywall
arctic walrus
Eu?
arctic walrus
See you’re fine
This is no buffs, not in naz
Basically target dummy in Boralus for 5 minutes
arctic walrus
No you didn’t. This is just a way to see what your damage is exclusively on your own
worldly yarrow
Ok, well, that is quite useful. Been bashing at this dummy all sorts of ways to get a couple Ks up, was getting desperate
Two quick questions : Going 4 or 5 CPs, I will clip CPs when I get 3 with my first hit, and will let evenum and EP buffs drop off often. That's as intended? Any situation where reaping the 3CPs to get the buffs rolling advantageous?
arctic walrus
It’s okay to drop your buffs. Only finisher at 4-5 points
worldly yarrow
OK. Needed a pro to tell me I guess
arctic walrus
When you drop both, just start pooling
worldly yarrow
ok
primal turret
Any information/speculation of how good will the new azerite trait "heart of te corruption" be on assassination rogue?
worldly yarrow
Thanks @arctic walrus and @rigid mango !
rigid mango
arctic walrus
modern stump
How do I want to be using Toxic Blade? Should I be aiming to use it on CD but after Envenom or before Envenom?
arctic walrus
Before on cd
Have some energy saved up
It’s okay to refresh bleeds inside of they are within pandemic
Try to fit in 2-3 envenoms
modern stump
So do my best not to cap combo points
And use Envenom on CD but before Envenom
Saving some energy for it so I can pump envenoms
gloomy slate
shy axle
2/2/2 setup m+ ST boss fight, do i use bote on cd or line it up with the 2nd vendetta (if the fight will be long enough to do so)?
vast forum
line up with 2nd vendetta in that case
carmine dawn
haste always has diminishing returns right? is the general consensus to stay ~15%? (never played sin, comin from outlaw land)
lyric sail
Bote after Tb
shy axle
so ss-rup-ss-ven-tb-bote?
lyric sail
I started trying ss-ss-rup-Ven-tb-bote after I saw seli talking about it and like it a lot
5cp rupture doesn’t end weirdly during vendetta
gusty mirage
That’d give you the bote throughout the entire TB window right?
Also essences are making me hate the gcd change more and more
lyric sail
Yep
grave trail
yo whats the best way to parse on BW do you open on the fish or forget buff straight to boss, I see different apporaches on casts
is it worth rupturing the healing fish
vast forum
best case scenario, you ignore first fish and your healers love you
grave trail
so what needs to be done in order to survive till second fish
pretty much hope you dont get barbed and use cloak on a shock pulse?
carmine dawn
does the fight timer begin when fish is first hit, or when fish first dies?
grave trail
i think its when the fish is hit
marble hemlock
Lets take this baby out for a spin :3
rigid mango
polar cape
Do you still run vop for this week or naay?
jaunty crystal
that build is illegal
polar cape
His stream name is legit tough
jaunty crystal
damn seli pumping on this first freehold pull (watching his stream)
harsh sphinx
grave trail
does it?
polar cape
Yeah
rigid mango
For sure it does, decent sin does.
polar cape
The down of the spec is you need restealth and have no gouge
grave trail
assuming that build takes skill XD
polar cape
Aoe sin is lots of apm
grave trail
meh fury has alot of apm still ez asf
rigid mango
Steadily holding 110k
polar cape
Tempest overlord praaise
grave trail
is one scent not worth it on that build?
rigid mango
Nope.
grave trail
so scent only good for org huh
rigid mango
It's good if you get 0 restealths and all you're doing is padding, yeah.
rigid mango
Nah, they should make them more well defined m+ and raid talents
Or let you have several builds of both
grave trail
you dont feel poison bomb needs a buff? likes its so random and on ST sometimes the boss moves from the spot wasted dps
rigid mango
It's so weak though
PB Rng doesn't really matter
Very few people want legion PB back.
rigid mango
There should be something more interesting than PB there
CT is fine, HB is boring.
1st row is a joke
Second to last is a joke
Everything's a joke
You don't swap anything apart from 2 rows
grave trail
i like tb it adds bit of skill to the spec
how is sin looking for 8.3 btw i heard lots of pad
looks like outlaw raid
rigid mango
Sin is still sin
Raid is still raid
prog is still prog
odds are it's the best.
grave trail
true, boss dmg will always be relevant
polar cape
Shuriken tornado meta inc
grave trail
oh god please no
drifting cloud
outlaw raid
strange python
is there a m+ guilde somewhere?
rigid mango
Not really, no.
rigid mango
Garrote 3 targets, rupture one, fok to build cp spend on refreshing bleeds as you want to keep 4-5 up minimum
You can fok at 2/3t+ as a builder with echoing blades traits
strange python
and without?
strange python
I stopped playing in s2 and just came back, what trinkets are the best in a pvp or single target situation
rigid mango
Sin needs one shrouded suff and one echoing blades to realistically function
#pvp and coral font inkpod for raid
strange python
Currently I have Harlan's loaded dice, deadeye and galecallers
rigid mango
Those're all mediocre for raid.
grave trail
wait when would you use inkpod over coral /font jc
rigid mango
inkpod's fine for any fight
It's good for bosses if you're struggling with last 30%
As all the damage is focused there
strange python
is there a reason to not stack echoing blades? is something not stacking?
grave trail
ah gotcha so more of a prog thing
rigid mango
No, you stack EB 😄
It's a prog thing sure
But nukkz, r1 allstar for sin uses coral + inkpod on everything so
Obviously doesn't matter enough 😄
rigid mango
I mean, doesn't really matter tbh
grave trail
or how many casts u can get
polar cape
You have to line it up with cds
rigid mango
If you can rank 1 an entire spec playing something that's worse it obv doesn't matter enough
brave vector
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
rigid mango
You can play inkpod instead of font anywhere really.
fair tusk
!cap
rigid mango
Font's great for burst windows, inkpod's great for focused 30% pushes
!cap isn't a command, sup?
fair tusk
where can i see the command
rigid mango
What do you need?
fair tusk
Stat cap
rigid mango
Use topgear, stats are volatile and very even for sin.
You literally cannot go wrong with anything rn 😄
fair tusk
yes, i want to upgrade my dps in M+ with sin, i saw some people going full mastery and other full crit
ember rover
You actually want a mix of both.
rigid mango
You just stack crit and mast in m+, yeah.
Haste is pooper because of how the bleeds work
Vers is fine too, it interacts really well with higher echoing blade counts.
Pretty much, healthy amount of crit, and aslong as it aint haste it's good.,
fair tusk
im struggling with the rotation with Eb on boss
rigid mango
EB doesn't impact your boss rotation.
fair tusk
crit 31% Haste 16% mastery 50%
rigid mango
Good mastery, low crit, way too high haste.
primal turret
Any information/speculation of how good will the new azerite trait "heart of te corruption" be on assassination rogue?
rigid mango
Since we don't have sims yet, nothing really.
drifting cloud
looks to be pretty similiar to loyal
since our weights are probably not changing a whole bunch and it just gives around same amount of stats as loyal did except spread evenely iirc?
marble hemlock
@polar cape nah, not gonna play vop in forti weeks i think
rigid mango
You got a link to it ryler?
drifting cloud
cant seem to find it on wowhead lmao but I think it was 80 and something to every secondary stat last time I saw
and I just assumed that was the number from normal ilvl azerite
hmm 84 at mythic ilvl, maybe it will be worse than loyal then
rigid mango
Depends a bit on what stats work out
But doesn't seem that good
not insanely anyways
drifting cloud
yeah if it was 100ish at mythic ilvl it would be alot better
rigid mango
Yah
drifting cloud
this number is probably a bit too low
rigid mango
I mean it's still what, 6.33 sockets
drifting cloud
loyal is 383 at 450
rigid mango
Yeh, seems real low tbh.
drifting cloud
wait is that even correct or is armory lying to me
rigid mango
Sounds about right
I'd say it'd be fine to have that trait with what
105-110 ish
stat
drifting cloud
yeah its probably poopoo then since all our other rogue traits will also be better because of ilvl if that one is only 340ish stats
rigid mango
Indeed.
Hey, maybe it's decent enough to be worn on a head or something
if it has good other trait + op
drifting cloud
but maybe they just bump it up to like 450 and then it might just be bis depending on what azerite it appears
rigid mango
Please be a dd np op helm
drifting cloud
yeah exactly
rigid mango
So I don't have to do arena
drifting cloud
is it 2.1k for mythic azerite?
and 2.4 for the upgrade tokens or how does it even work
marble hemlock
other way around
rigid mango
not sure tbh, think you need 2.1k for mythic yeah
marble hemlock
2.1k is enough for the token afaik
rigid mango
If there aint a dd np op helm we're probably going dumpster diving
Yeah I think so
Can't wait for another tier with shit azerite
relying on rolling and pvp
marble hemlock
yeah
only took
400k for 2 pieces
to buy specific that i wanted
such fun
and in ~2months i get to do it again!!!
rigid mango
Can't wait to have to rng both cepha and goraks again
Hey atleast you get like 30+k per week
marble hemlock
honestly, thats by far the dumbest part, having to re-gamble every tier
drifting cloud
just do higher m+ so you get to 400k faster
rigid mango
Well it's gonna be great, if there isn't some good raid stuffs this tier I'm gonna be fuming
marble hemlock
yup
like we had for legendaries
🙂
imagine having to regrind bracers/shoulders/boots every tier
rigid mango
Yeah please
marble hemlock
that wouldve been fun
rigid mango
Atleast BoD had BiS helm from first boss, 2nd best chest and good m+ azerite
EP is just fucking garbage when it comes to m+ gear and raid gear
drifting cloud
yeah we had it easy in bod and ep was totally other way
and I remember people thinking loyal would be garbo, if loyal wasnt good it would be even worse for us
rigid mango
not having blackwater 
marble hemlock
it may sound entitled, but id prefer to not have mechanics that are important for gameplay feel to be tied to items that are rng-based in their acquisition
assa has it pretty good in that regard
rigid mango
What you mean we're not entirely tied to X trait?
marble hemlock
none of our traits make a huge difference in our rotation
compared to something like wits, or getting ~2.5k haste as a DH from your eyebeam traits
rigid mango
Yeah, I mean from that viewpoint it's great
But outlaw for example had a fully functioning, albeit suboptimal, setup from the first what, 3 bosses?
marble hemlock
mmhye
i mean lets be real
while i have the traits i want now
i also have to deal with this
rigid mango
0 RP sucks ass.
marble hemlock
not exactly what id like
rigid mango
And yeah, all of that.
Idk. We'll just have to wait and see if sin can win the azerite lottery next tier
Pieces should be coming on wowhead in the coming week or so
never mind, they're actually already there.
There's a dd np op helm
🙏
And a dd np gutripper 
rough agate
Don’t you find it so sad though that we have the same play style through 3 raids just about? I miss the changes tier brought each raid
marble hemlock
wanna have a look at it myself
rough agate
Is what it is I guess
rigid mango
0 eb pieces seli
marble hemlock
kekw
rigid mango
I don't think there's a single EB in the entire tier.
Raid pieces look fucking great though.
Atleast from a raid
royal lantern
soooo....for raiding the raid pieces look good, for m+ shit?
cant check right now cus my connenction is bellow garbage tier
marble hemlock
yay........
royal lantern
oof
rigid mango
Shoulders are atleast ttk np op
but
nothing's BiS outside of helm
I mean there's some ttk ss stuff I suppose
royal lantern
dont they know wich traits people actually want
marble hemlock
well, the good news might be that if the next affix is a bit more ST heavy, were wont want to play 3EB anyway
royal lantern
and then dont make them just fuck with us lol
rigid mango
for cepha/spymasters
And blighted tribe for m+ ig
one piece with ttk ss
albeit op too
rigid mango
Yep
They get 3 ds 1 wits blitz ace 3 op
from raid now
Unless the new trait is worth taking
But I very much so doubt it
Since it gives like, less stats than 450 loyal 
rough agate
with or without other people using it?
rigid mango
I mean it's a fucking joke that there is literally
marble hemlock
the most annoying part would really just be if it was only 6pieces in 12 bosses
rigid mango
0 EB pieces
marble hemlock
so i hope they add some more
marble hemlock
cant be too difficult to slap EB on some pieces, put them on bosses that dont have azerite yet, pull a few random-lovecraft-name-generator names out of the hat
and done
rigid mango
Granted it should get increased with neck level I think?
rough agate
it only gives 357 if others have loyal too though right
rigid mango
Yeah I mean just give me 1 ttk eb and 1 ss eb peice
ez pez
atleast viable pieces you know
Ofc.
Who cares about non-4 man loyal
It's irrelevant.
rough agate
Do m+ groups always take 4 loyals?
rigid mango
Loyal is irrelvant for m+ though
true nexus
unless you run with the same 5 lads and they all benefit hard from it
marble hemlock
nah
rigid mango
Idk if other classes actually like it
rigid mango
sad
rigid mango
Does any meta dps class actually?
marble hemlock
nah
marble hemlock
part of the reason why theyre meta is because they have really good azerite traits 🙂
rigid mango
cough
rough agate
Thoughts on that corrupted dagger
rigid mango
Good.
marble hemlock
looks like a lot of dmg
rigid mango
We'll see if it outvalues the crit damage or w/ever
rough agate
2 of those 😮
rigid mango
2 = 50 corruption
marble hemlock
yeah
rough agate
well eventually less
marble hemlock
i think most effects
rigid mango
That's bad iirc.
marble hemlock
might not be worth the corruption
rigid mango
i think they're gonna be worth under what, 40?
royal lantern
feels like it will be 1st boss dagger MH cus of ilvl, effect dagger offhand
marble hemlock
youd rather get the socket in your weapon on a high ilvl base
and get good corruptions on other slots
rigid mango
You'll also now be able to get a socket to buy
and place on items
but it's whack to get
marble hemlock
thats the somewhat interesting thing about corruption, you dont need it on every slot
rigid mango
It's gonna take a loooong while to get that
yeah and also AP 85 is like concordance in legion
Flat reduction of corruption
Per level beyond 85, iirc.
marble hemlock
sounds like the gem-item can also only be used on corrupted items
rough agate
yeah 1 corruption less per
marble hemlock
and im guessing it removes the corruption