like the bleed
#assassination
timber meadow
distant lava
Dd trait is flat nature dmg yeah
arctic walrus
You shouldn't be close to "max energy" that often
distant lava
Granted I have 3 traits but a dd crit hits for like 60k for me
arctic walrus
The log you linked me of sivara, your are just too cautious with your energy
timber meadow
was gonna say i pool too much lol
arctic walrus
You play around ~120s? even for your tb windows, you pool like 70-100
Also be more mindful of getting vanish -> env rather than vanish -> mut, it can net you a whole extra envenom inside that tb window
timber meadow
ah okay
yeah that's big
was just look at it
is there a way to map my energy graph onto my cast timeline?
hm i guess another question that may be dumb or me thinking too much on something silly - if my garrote will fall into pandemic range during TB, should I just be refreshing it before TB that way I dont have to pandemic refresh in the middle of TB window? or is it better to just go straight into TB and pandemic refresh in tb window
stark wyvern
What’re the recommended Azerite for keys?
distant lava
Blood major lucid and C&S minor
stark wyvern
Thanks @tropic ocean
dapper moat
Might be reallu stupid question but what to gamble with residuum, shoulders or a chest? As im in the situation that both are ok for m+ and raid but not best. Like is there more quality chests available or shoulders? Or is it just the personal preference at this point? 😂
rigid mango
Shoulders have like 4 good ones too iirc
rigid mango
I think only sang monst and tent laced are especially bad for m+
Rest are decent/good/bis
cloud sandal
what stats do u want in m+?
dapper moat
Mastery and crit crit crit 😄
cloud sandal
what do u think about azerokk's resonating heart?
grave elk
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
frank granite
What's best way to use font + coral? I started assa very recently and got mine hands on these, what I'm currently trying is Font 10s before Vendetta is ready, Vendetta and then coral 10s into Vendetta ; is there a better way / different way / suggestion about how to make them work together?
arctic walrus
#tc-updates gives a blurb on the best use
frank granite
Ok thanks, so it seems that Coral crit is a bit more worth than Font primary stat
icy ember
p e r s o n a l l y i don't buy into the font/coral usage, it is much easier to run w/coral and inkpod
but if you want to calculate some astral equation on the fly, have at it 
arctic walrus
"astral equation"
Font when vendetta has 14 seconds on its cd
coral 6s into vendetta (when it's off cd)
dapper moat
I agree with shade, all vel said is astral on hectic cleave 😂
timber meadow
why does cloak work for beam but ams doesn't?
is there a reason or just one of those thinsg
muted cove
Ams only takes a certain amount of magic damage before its used up
Cloak ignores all magic until it wears off doesnt matter how much damage it does
timber meadow
but in logs the beam doesn't do any dmg
to deplete the shield
it's just poof they gone
muted cove
On which boss?
timber meadow
azshara
muted cove
Beam does do damage
arctic walrus
Beam is an "instadeath" mechanic. It will always do 100% of your hp, no matter what, as magical damage
Rogues, for the duration of cloak, are immune to any source of magical damage, therefore they can go through
AMS is simply a magic absorb shield, and it has the capability of preventing magical applications (think dots)
timber meadow
okay, so the beam is doing dmg to the ams shield it just dopesn't show up in logs
arctic walrus
Yeah there's not even time to register it on the logs, you are just dead
timber meadow
we're having issues with dmg on 2nd add in p3... as it is, I've been mantaining dots on the myrm and azshara if i can but was wondering if that's a prio dmg dps loss
i blow everything on venom so dont have much for 2nd add but wanna make sure im doin what i can
arctic walrus
You can cd on 2nd adds and it'll be back up for p4
timber meadow
well we'd prob have issues with first add if i did that : /
like i can invest all my cd's into either 1st or 2nd add and ensure it goes smoothly but there will always be one add where i dont have anything
tropic ocean
can use 3min cd on first add
2min cd on 2nd add
also everyone should pot on 2nd add if that makes u kill it before shield
redotting myrmidon while 2nd add is active is a dps loss, u can should dot azshara myrmidon while u are walking from add 1 to add 2
timber meadow
3 min? so like switch to clf
tropic ocean
and then dont use gcds on myrmidon unless u are getting to dispelled/los
no bote is good as it is higher burst than clf
tropic ocean
like ur raid should switch 3min cd to first add
and 2min to 2nd add
so both will have them up in p4 (u will save ur vendetta for a min or so but who cares)
its not the most efficient for your individual dps but if it makes u kill it before shield its superior
timber meadow
that makes sense
it's unclear - I think 2nd add cd assignments just need to get more comfortable with their setups
before we make a severe shift in strat
drifting cloud
theres also some rng depending who gets beckon and dispells
timber meadow
im also not the kinda guy to suggest anything lol im more just tryna do what i can given my assignmetns
drifting cloud
atleast we had huge disparities on 2nd add hp
how much are you using on 1st add? think we only had 3 people using
destro, mage and ret iirc
timber meadow
um lemme check
drifting cloud
I guess maybe dh also metas, not sure when they did it
urban blaze
timber meadow
we have a lot for first add
3 dh's w/ meta /clf; rogue w/ vendetta (plus bote and coral); mage w/ combust
ah nm lol
i was looking at azshara burn
holy shit ha i was like how is this even possible
so for first add it's basically just me with everything; paly with wings and then some more minor stuff like warrior is usin reck/bote; hunter w/ trueshot
and then 2nd add it's dk w/ breath and mage w/ combust + warlock w/ infernals
drifting cloud
should be everyone on 2nd that isnt on 1st tho 😛
timber meadow
well like dh meta/clf isn't up
drifting cloud
but honestly 1 shielding the 2nd add isnt a really huge deal (atleast pre-nerf)
because as soon as she shield the myrmidon throws the spear again
timber meadow
oh druids are also using CA on 2nd add
drifting cloud
and we very rarely killed both the add and then the myrmidon before he threw that spear
so as long as you los the break its same raid dmg taken anyways
and you just have a few mobile classes stay to finish it off
timber meadow
yeah I think they are idk i never like gettin too involved in the overall strat just chill and do my thing and try and just do the best i can personally do
sand whale
how far are you off by for 2nd add? like is everyone alive and you aren't making the kill time or are people jsut dying which make it seem like a struggle
elder gulch
Does visions also proc the energy from vendetta?
rigid mango
Don't use it it's atrocious.
elder gulch
i wanted to try it in pvp. i just need to know if it gives energy
rare pond
is loyal to the end a trap trait? like it sims so high if you have 4 other people using it in raid, but I'm just wondering if other traits like NP or DD wouldn't actually be better. I have 2 loyal atm
rigid mango
Like you said, you need 4 people
That's the "trap"
Not hard to achieve, but that's the only really issue. If anything it can be better in real life scenarios than it sims if someone dies 🤷
rare pond
ye my guild definitely has people running it, it just feels weird to prioritize it, I guess
it makes sin compete with the bis outlaw gear so now I need to funnel money into reforging constantly lol
now I want blackwater chest, frothing rage shoulders
rare pond
for outlaw or for sin?
rigid mango
Sin
rare pond
for sin the frothing shoulders outsim tidal drifter with loyal
rigid mango
Doesn't mean they're BiS though does it?
Gorak Tul's are still BiS
That must not be your first NP either, or your pieces really like mastery.
rare pond
no, my helm has twist/np
rigid mango
Yeah there you go. Tidal drifters'd outsim if you didn't have uhh, enveloping leviathan?
rare pond
ah alright
rigid mango
For what, m+?
cloud sandal
Yes
rigid mango
Either a new helm or a chest, for flexibility
2 EB is probably better than 2 ttk tbh
cloud sandal
Hmm yeah, ill roll a helm wednesday
rigid mango
Other than that, new ring and maybe a new trink instead of inkpod
Coral/font or something
You're rocking 1/6 on either chest or helm on a roll
to get ss/eb
If you wanna nitpick, new wrists
hands*
and a socketed UR dagger
cloud sandal
Alright
I have the mastery trinket
That gives main stat
Chance on hit forgot the name
At 440
cloud sandal
Yes
rigid mango
I'm honestly unsure of how good it is, tbh.
rigid mango
Doesn't mean much tbh
rigid mango
Yeah I mean that's pretty bonks too tbh
rigid mango
Font and coral work for me, font on fort weeks and coral on tyr weeks
cloud sandal
Dont have neither lol
cloud sandal
So then inkpod better or worse then resonating heart or my tiny elec
Maybe i should sim it
In different scenarios
rigid mango
V hard too, tbh
cloud sandal
But idk jf it will be accurate
cloud sandal
Yeah
Stat wise i think im pretty stacked, mainly need ring and new azerite piece i thibk
As first prio
rigid mango
I mean with those traits you can defo drop 2-3% crit in favour for more mastery
and mastery food etc
rigid mango
When running only 1 I would pref sitting at 35%
Maybe even at 2 eb tbh.
3 SS with more mastery is pretty bonkers
rigid mango
Nn 
arctic socket
in general what's a better proc lucid dreams or cucible to run with?
arctic walrus
You never switch off lucid
arctic socket
for minor
cobalt gyro
never swap from lucid
arctic walrus
Do you not have rank 3
arctic socket
rank 2
timber meadow
is there a way to setup a sim where you don't start in stealth?
cobalt pelican
not sure what the use would be but i t's just a precombat line in the apl
just remove actions.precombat+=/stealth
wooden orchid
Do you generally try to pool energy whenever toxic blade is about to come up.
arctic walrus
Yes
wooden orchid
What about when your low energy but at 4-5 CP. do you pool so you can mut x2?
After envenom I mean
arctic walrus
Are you asking if you pool after envenom? Sorry can you restate your question
wooden orchid
Pool at 4-5 CP before using envenom so you can definitely mut x2 during planning window
arctic walrus
If you have bleeds up, and an envenom buff active, pool until you have to spend that envenom to refresh the buff
wooden orchid
Ohhhh I see
Ty!
Should I hold toxic blade if vendetta is about to come up? Or is it not worth it
rigid mango
Other way round, hold vend for when TB comes up
wooden orchid
Oh I see okay
Last question. Do you guys go to 4 CP on opener if you don’t crit with mutilate for rupture ?
arctic walrus
Ye
wooden orchid
Why is that? Is it just better sync with the bleeds ?
I guess garrote doesn’t gain benefit from master assassin so there’s no point not to?
arctic walrus
It's either Mut Mut Rup or Mut Rup Mut.
you are doing the same abilities
so why not just get a high cp bleed up
You don't garrote in ma window anymore yes
wooden orchid
Ok ty
If I only have plumage/coral currently. Would I use plumage during vendetta during opener or with pull?
drifting cloud
you probably cant run those 2 together, they must sim horribly
cobalt pelican
i imagine you'd just use plumage with vend and stack coral till your last vend or something
but eh
wooden orchid
Yea it doesn’t feel good to use for sure. Dam. Galecallers sims high but it feels weird to use too lol
Guess I’ll just stick to coral/spyglass
modest tendon
so in m+ why is tb used over exsang?
there isn't much difference in damage between them
is it becuase tb works well with ttk?
cobalt pelican
there's a pretty decent amount of damage between them and even if there wasn't like
if they were close, why would you choose to play the one that's a pain in the ass and requires maintenance
cloud sandal
what is the best multi target / ST opener with BOTE for m+
acoustic cipher
What traits/talents do u play?
wide oracle
I actually have the same question. Im running 3xSS, 3xTTK
tropic ocean
St same as in raid
vestal wren
what upside does exsang bring over tb?
tropic ocean
Mt 3 g rupture vendetta bote tb into prio without prio ggg r bote fok fok fok fok
vestal wren
if its more effort and brings in best case same results, why would you consider playing it
acoustic cipher
Ouch if you play that build with 3xss 3xttf u lose a fuckton of aoe so basically u just funnel into priority target
What id do there is garrote 1 garrote 2 garrote 3 rupture fok for cp vendetta then toxic blade then bote then envenom fok envenom fok envenom etc etc into priority target
Id make sure 1 of the garrotes is on that priority target alongside rupture
Then go ham on that target
Should be very easy to get cp with fok after using bote
Without eb i basically use fok as a generator then funnel into main target
vestal wren
the only reason to use ttk is if you want to focus on prio damage
i don't see a reason to use it over eb in m+ even tho some might disagree
acoustic cipher
Well u still want some boss damage
vestal wren
yes, and ss provides that
acoustic cipher
But not x3 ttf tho
And what happens after empowered garrotes run out?
U drop to tank dps?
vestal wren
if you f.ex. go with 3ss 1 ttk and 2 eb instead of 3ss 3eb you gain striking 3% bossdamage but sacraftice about 12% aoe damage
acoustic cipher
Ideally x3 ss x2 eb x1 ttk ye
vestal wren
thats the only thing you get from 1 ttk
acoustic cipher
Yep
vestal wren
but you sacrafice a quite noticable amount on aoe
sullen pagoda
what fuu is trying to say is ttk is worthless compared to eb aoe gain
vestal wren
assuming m+ is largely aoe, dropping eb traits means you sacraficing what is important to time the dungeon
acoustic cipher
If u play crimson tempest do u wanna use that into bote tho? Or do u wanna keep all globals into bote with fok?
vast forum
That's a big if
acoustic cipher
+21 fortified ML for example
naive walrus
Hi guys, is there a haste cap ? like min. 20%?
vast forum
I'd say use it before bote so the entire bleed is affected by bote, but all the globals in bote are still foks
acoustic cipher
So u dont want to have the initial damage into bote?
vast forum
21 fort ml is still no reason to run ct imo
Single fok does more dmg than initial of ct
Way more
wide oracle
I dont have pieces with EB, and the pieces I have they would replace SS
acoustic cipher
When would u use ct then?
vast forum
Especially with eb and bote synergy
Personally never
I'd use ct if you're running a build without eb
Which should be never
acoustic cipher
Yeah ive been rly unlucky with azerite lol
vestal wren
CT is a interessting topic, with the current pull sizes it kinda behaves like 1 eb vs 1 ttk trait
acoustic cipher
X2 ss x3 ttk x1 swirling sands lol
vestal wren
ct is weaker on pure st but in aoe slightly ahead
acoustic cipher
Garbage
vast forum
If you run multiple eb, just play hb if you want aoe
vestal wren
i actually think hb is bad
acoustic cipher
Does it increase how much damage eb does too or just fok?
vast forum
Just fok
vestal wren
Hb has some more use on st so its slightly stronger then CT there
however on aoe it only provides burst aoe, in a sustained aoe fight without a very high target count it falls behind other talent options
vast forum
But it stacks between pulls or during st fights, it's not afk like ct and pb
acoustic cipher
Dont u get 1 stack of hb every 1s? Or was it 2s?
vast forum
Also, on high enough target count, finishers aren't worth using so pb loses value on those
Also any movement reduces its value
vestal wren
moment, lets see how much that helps
vast forum
Yea
acoustic cipher
She will kill me if she sees this xd
vast forum
Any deaths in the grp that cause the healer to cast a res for ~10 sec are stacking hb while other talents are afk
Any type of sim will show hb in its worst light the other 2 in their best imo
vestal wren
CT seems to provide the most value overall, kinda suprised hb fell behind PB
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/GE8Yhe8ub66469CzLAai6/simc
its my dungeon slice script, if you wounder
vestal wren
yes
but also starts with a 5 enemy group after the initial "boss fight"
so HB should have quite some stacks and the group size is high
vast forum
In that ideal situation, i agree ct is probably highest dps, but any time you shroud something or have a bit of running between packs, hb will gain value
cobalt pelican
it'll spend the hb stacks on st
vast forum
And iirc sim uses fok on s
cobalt pelican
so it really depends what the timing is of the default fight sequence
i don't even think there's a timetodie on hidden blades in general
i guess it doesn't really need one since you won't ever stop fokking on trash but for slice sims it's a decent loss if it's spending just before death
vast forum
Not a lot probably
cobalt pelican
depends what the default fight timings are
if in every single sim it's getting a 2stack hb on a 5pack instead of a 20 then it'll be a decent change
if it's hitting that pack with decent stacks then obviously not
tropic ocean
@cloud sandal yes
cloud sandal
alright, only have 500 haste atm
vestal wren
this seems better:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gS4XtzNEZoprPTXhdQ6tXy/simc
cobalt pelican
is this with no foks st at all or with some kind of check for ttd added
vestal wren
no fok at st
cobalt pelican
i think either way it looks quite good; if they were close to each other i'd almost always choose hb
vast forum
Hb is always gonna do better in reality than on sims
Ct should be the same
Any shroud, time between pulls etc will further increase hb's value
cobalt pelican
yeah so there's still some gains to be had, a 20stack fok when it hits on st like the old condition but making sure that stacks are not spent if time to die on the mob is <30sec or smth
vast forum
Also, @vestal wren what traits does that sim assume?
cobalt pelican
if it's the dslice profile it's 3ss2eb1bbi i think
vestal wren
yes
strange python
hidden blades worth using in m+?
vast forum
If you have 3 eb, yes, if 2 then maybe
strange python
Hey Guys we will do Myth Orgo and i have a few questions regarding this fight. I will play 3 SS, 1EB, 1 TTK and 1 scent of blood. Is it okay to do normal rotation untill adds spawn, then vanish garrote the adds apply a rupture on every add and then just spam fok instead of mutilate with prio target boss and refreshing bleeds on him? Or is this too much add dmg?
arctic walrus
ss isn't really that strong on that fight imo, at least 3
empowered garrote and ruptures with fok spam you are looking at a lot of add dmg though yeah
strange python
What would be the best setup for this fight? Maybe i can change my gear.
rigid mango
Standard ST build.
If you're on prog you're better off just doing boss damage than dealing with adds
quasi ledge
Go full single target, let others cleave the adds who are better at it
rigid mango
Other people do that more efficiently by cleaving than you do.
strange python
Puh okay, wont it be a little bit strange to be arround 40-50 k dps while others are between 60- and 70k ? I know Boss dmg is important but...i trust you. Will try single target today!
rigid mango
Yeah 60-70k where a majority is essentially useless for actual boss progression.
wind saffron
Depends if you wanna kill the boss or make logs
strange python
Okay, so if adds fall without my dmg it should be okay for not speccing into outlaw i think. love assa so much more =/
Thanks for your advice fellow rogues!
strange python
Do you all play Assa at Orgo or do you change spec? What is your usual dps at the fight?
rigid mango
I play sin bec we don't need the aoe
You can look at boss damage parses if you want to see what people are doing ST
arctic walrus
I play sin because I don't want to hearth and change traits
rancid bobcat
Just get a full outlaw set
polar cape
strange python
ty Zine
wide oracle
8/10 of the top parses for rogues are outlaw for Ashvane. Is that because they go Outlaw to pad on bubbles?
rigid mango
Good rolls and burst cleave is really good for outlaw
The amount of damage they funnel from wits stacks off of flurrying onto other targets is massive
That's boss damage logs though.
So yeah, they cleave on bubbles which is necessary ofc. But sin is still the king of boss damage.
wide oracle
Okay, I'm asking because I am starting my trial in my new guild tonight with an Ashvane rekill for the guild and Orgo progress. So wondering if I should stick to my assa, or bring out my outlaw. But if I dont care for parses, and only want to help kill the boss faster then I should stick to Assa?
rigid mango
Assa is probably more consistant
But you should really just be playing either, whichever you're more comfortable with.
arctic walrus
If you get a set of bubbles where most/everyone immunes, you're in a bad spot
rigid mango
Sin is consistant on both the fights, might not show on orgo for example, but if your raidleader knows what to look at he should see your value as sin even though it might not show on meters.
wide oracle
Okay, thanks. Ill bring my outlaw set if we need the add damage on Orgo. Thanks for the answers, makes me more chill. Its a big move going from main healing, to start trialing as dps for a mythic raiding guild. Atleast for me 🙂
scarlet sequoia
np
young portal
inkpod or font generally better for Azshara?
arctic walrus
Font's better if you need add dmg. Pod for boss dmg. You can go for pod if you just don't want the hassle of juggling the 2 on uses
young portal
Fair enough, tyty. Also Blood is more suited than CLF here too right?
arctic walrus
Same deal, clf if you need the boss damage. Blood's just a better pick imo cuz it is just more versatile
young portal
appreciated, cheers
golden plume
hello
i'm wondering what traits i should get this week as assa
i have 2 setups that looks interesting
2xSS, 3xEB, 1xTTK
or
3xSS, 2xEB, 1xNP
for mythic+
vast forum
i'd change between dungeons 😛
first one for any big pull dungeons (ML/WM/FH/TD/SoB/sots)
AD/UR will depend on the way you pull
KR/ToS definitely the 3ss build
golden plume
can't really afford to change, had a bit of fun testing some outlaws things soooo i guess i'll go first build since more dungeons are viable
vast forum
yea, go for it then
golden plume
should I take crimson tempest with ML/WM/FH/TD/SoB/SoTS ? never tried it so idk when to take it
arctic walrus
Never take crimson tempest
visual mesa
CT is p good actually
tough dome
Some streamer i was watching last night was using it but didnt go into detail on why? I just always use pb
graceful mirage
crimson tempest sounds like it falls off a lot since there seem to be no benefit on traits
young portal
@tough dome Seli is streaming now and using CT, just jump in and ask him
shy axle
Ct is fine, someone did ask at this moment
he said take it always expcept sob, kr, tos
except
vast forum
i think CT is good if you run 1 EB
3EB it's DEFINITELY not worth using with and with 2EB it's kinda the same
but i'd personally run PB if not HB cuz tyrannical 😛
vast forum
hard disagree
rigid mango
HB = ~4-5% of your fok damage
rigid mango
So you have to be doing 20-25% of your damage for HB to be doing ~ same damage as PB
nah because it's 10% every other fok
so it's 5% each fok
vast forum
no, it's 20% every other
and if you don't fok every global, it can be way more
if you fok every other global, it's effectively 20% bonus FoK damage
if you ever shroud or someone dies so you have to wait for healer to res, the stacks keep adding up, while the other 2 talents are afk
we had a lengthy discussion about this today already
it's ahead of PB in overall and very close behind CT on 2EB build
vast forum
rigid mango
What sims are those?
vast forum
fuu's dungeon slice
vast forum
no, this was today 😛
vast forum
well, actual aoe sims assume mobs are standing still and there's no downtime ever
rigid mango
the dslice sim uses pulls from s2 too iirc, so it's not that good either
vast forum
HB will ALWAYS in EVERY SITUATION outperform its sim, while PB suffers from movement and CT has 0 ST value
no, this is fuu's specific dslice sim
rigid mango
The one pinned in wowgen?
vast forum
i think so
rigid mango
Yeah, it's outdated
And not good to start with
I understand HB gains value outside of sims
vast forum
it has up to 6 mob pulls
rigid mango
But even then it was this awk middle ground between PB and CT where it doesn't function well enough
vast forum
which is very realistic
it functions perfectly tho
it's just like PB where you just pick the talent and don't think about it
unless you wanna use 20 stacks on boss
single target
rigid mango
Nah I meant that it's in the middle of the other two
vast forum
it's not tho
it's straight up better than CT for aoe if u have 3EB
and it has ST value
rigid mango
I suppose teeming could be an exception but outside of that
I see no reason to run 3 eb, not even on teem I wouldn't run it tbh.
lost horizon
Freehold
vast forum
any fortified week where you aren't prevented from doing decent pulls
subtle dust
is it worth to try to maintain bleeds on secondary target, such as queen's court?
tough dome
what lvl 45 talent? Is vigor best for raid, and should i switch for m+ mfd sims better with dungeon slice but thats not very reliable
scarlet sequoia
vigor vigor vigor vigor vigor vigor vigor vigor vigor vigor
rigid mango
Vigor for both m+ and raids
tropic ocean
@subtle dust yes as much as possible usually with sprint/boss movement and shadowstep
vestal wren
the pulls didnt change a lot in s3 so, its not to big of a diffrence
i think 3eb 3ss is the way to go
this season
icy sedge
just got a socketed fathomstalker bindings (pufferfish effect) should i upgrade or go for the other wrist
subtle dust
alright, thanks
vestal wren
the sim was also using 2eb traits, so with 3 hb would probably be slightly ahead
shy axle
funny tough how the public perception changes. "Ct never viable" "Oh boy so excited to use 2 Eb /3 Tk this season" "Man who uses 3 SS/3 Eb , prio dmg due to ttk is soo valuable everyone should use at least 2"
be open guys
xD
fathom wyvern
so if its 1 sec left on tb, im at 3 CP, do i envenom 3 cp cuz TB dbuff or just go mut to 5 and envenom?
rigid mango
You don't finish at 3
graceful mirage
the front damage of envenom is not the important part
so buffing that with the second left in tb is not worth it.
rigid mango
huh?
graceful mirage
yeah i worded that very badly
rigid mango
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
cunning geyser
On zaqul after first echo is dead, do you go back up killing yourself ? this is what my guild is suggesting
rigid mango
Clf + lucid + iris/strife for raid, blood + lucid + strife for m+
Blood has usages in raid like last 2
cunning geyser
Hehe thanks for answering me we just killed him 😄
pearl ingot
HB and CB?
rigid mango
Huh?
pearl ingot
There was a discussion but i cant connect HB and CT to spells.
rigid mango
Hidden blades and crimson tempest
cunning geyser
We just got to Azshara mythic and I didn't get to learn fight as assa, Blood of the ennemy, Lucid dreams and Focused energy ? Ofc based on what I sim ST I guess but that's the idea for the essences ?
vital walrus
@rigid mango ty
cunning geyser
I wish
I should do it but I'm not into rated pvp so I have to get motivated
and talents ?
latent gazelle
standard MA build
unless you have Ss then subt
Pretty sure its the same talent build for every boss
except Zaq where you take leech poison
cunning geyser
yeah I was just curious for leeching vs death but if no reason to leech then
just what is Ss ?
rigid mango
ye
latent gazelle
yeap
cunning geyser
if you got any tips I'm all for it, cd at beginning ? so it's back for 2nd add or smth ? when do you use font at pull ?
rigid mango
CD's on pull/first hulk in p1
CD's when she spawns in p2
CD's on first/second mistress depending on strats in p3
Rest go straight onto azshara in p4
cunning geyser
Ok thanks a lot Zine
rigid mango
rigid mango
Meh doesn't matter
lusty narwhal
Whats wrong with that lol
shut garnet
just feels terrible to get 8s use out of the vendetta lol
and usually by the time youve set up your bleeds and you go blood, tb, vanish env depending on how stacked your team is on burst dps you might not even get a 2nd envenom off
harsh sphinx
its p1. shit's meaningless
shut garnet
obvs i guess STRATEGICALLY theres nothing wrong with it, if anything it's the best in terms of how it lines things up for the rest of the fight
yeah exactly
lusty narwhal
Uhh what, are you saying youre popping vend on the hulk?
lusty narwhal
Yikes
tropic ocean
well if you need dmg on hulk why would you not use it
it will be ready intime when needed anyway
tropic ocean
yeah it will be
rigid mango
Really?
tropic ocean
y
you will delay it little bit from popping right when azshara spawns
but rather a little later
and bote into the adds in middle as well
for extra pad
rigid mango
That'll probs mean you wont be able to vend first mistress tho?
harsh sphinx
rigid mango
I think that just fucks a lot of things up tbh
tropic ocean
idk i vendetta 2nd anyway
but with 10% hp shaved off theres no hard choke on venomtongue and other add anymore
rigid mango
yeh then ofc it doesn't matter
shut garnet
i think if you vend the 2nd hulk and then vend again after you'll line your 3rd with second add
or maybe even mid-venomtongue idk ive never tried
its not the end of the world
tropic ocean
?
2nd hulk spawns ~1.30
azshara active at around ~3min
so u delay vend 30sec
u still pop it on QA
venomtongue active at ~5min
so no way to vend venomtongue
if venomtongue lives for so long ur raid has other issues
shut garnet
ye so it doesnt come up for venomtongue, but it'll be up for the 2nd add
so you can use it there
rigid mango
Do you lose a cast in p4 thanks to this?
shut garnet
you just said you're holding it for 2nd hulk?
tropic ocean
No?
shut garnet
or you mean use it on pull and then use it on 2nd hulk?
shut garnet
well p1 doesnt really matter, i think he means the vend casts that matter are the ones on QA
vast forum
i don't think you have vendetta for 2nd hulk
tropic ocean
You do
shut garnet
and if you use vend for 2nd hulk you delay your QA vendetta
by like 30-40s as you said
tropic ocean
yeah
tropic ocean
Maybe
rigid mango
Yeah that was what I meant
tropic ocean
But all I said was in answer to not being able to kill 2nd hulk
if you dont struggle with it you wont cd it
shut garnet
So the safest way would still be to hold vendfor 1st hulk and use it on QA spawn
But it just depends what your raid needs i suppose
rigid mango
I just meant that delaying vend to 2nd hulk -> late in p2 -> 2nd mistress p3 -> maybe lose one cast in p4
With using cd's on first, you get 2 in p4, I just havn't checked the timers if you use cd's on 2nd mistress
tropic ocean
Comes down to killtime anyway
rigid mango
yeh ofc
tropic ocean
10:30/11/11:30/12
rigid mango
Should be fine
rigid mango
rigid mango
I mean post nerf is such a joke
Half raid dead for maybe 5-6%
no pressure surge no nothing
tropic ocean
yeah soaks are a lot less punishing
rigid mango
We managed to wipe to them a couple of times tho unsure how
tropic ocean
think if u killed before zaqul harder now than qa
rigid mango
Since it was such a joke on kill
burnt dawn
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
dire spoke
@rigid mango 
https://i.snipboard.io/TL7QSp.jpg
rigid mango
rancid bobcat
ghetto ass clipping website
steep obsidian
eep
keen sandal
what do you guys open with as MA and 1 SS ?
final dust
civic palm
arctic tinsel
someone mentioned there was a pvp guide linked somewhere in here
anyone able to find that for me?
wondering about stat prio in pvp because a 2400 rogue told me crit mastery and it says otherwise elsewhere
honest needle
is it tru sin is better for keys now a days ?
honest needle
this streamer whos selling carrys i telling me sin is much better now
since outlaw nerf
modest tendon
Which streamer?
He’s an idiot
Since the outlaw nerfs the difference between the 2 specs are closer
If outlaw is an A tier spec, assa is a B tier spec put it that way
rancid bobcat
Yeah outlaw is still a bit ahead, especially with folly
honest needle
im not talking about his hunter
Im talking about hes talking about the rogue thats in his group
he was saying sin is better now a days for keys
I wanted to kno if that was true
modest tendon
You need to stack 3 shrouded suffocation’s and 1-3 echoing blades for m+
modest tendon
Thats fine
honest needle
Im trying to find what azerite is best from vendor for sin m+
cause i have 124k residue
modest tendon
You might find you will need another 1-2 echoing blades though
honest needle
by any chance do u kno which peices from residue vendor to aim for
i was trying to find a site
but i dont see 1 that shows which azerite from vendor to aim for m plus
cloud sandal
i blast way harder with outlaw then assa but then again i suck at assa
modest tendon
Ikr
honest needle
o wow so u cna get all bis for m+ from vendor
shut garnet
pistoleer's is actually bis shoulder
and irontide captain's hat for the head slot
im pretty sure
honest needle
@shut garnet only has ss no eb
im trying to find out what to bonus roll for sin m+
or should i just stick to outlaw
i do sin for raid n outlaw for keys usually
i just have so much extra residue
honest needle
what do they play then
honest needle
can i show u my gear n u tell me what to go for
honest needle
shut garnet
potentially even 3ss2ttk1eb ¯_(ツ)_/¯ just depends, but ive never seen anyone go 3/3
honest needle
thats my current gear since i main sin for raid and outlaw for keys im not trying to reforge alot
so im trying to find what to aim for
shut garnet
id roll for a chest maybe
shut garnet
ya but you can go for captains har
hat
ss ttk
then goraks with ss bbi
and go for the ss eb chest
shut garnet
but outlaw is just too good 
honest needle
is eb and itp good
spymaster
i got 2 of them now
or vest of rev adortion i just got
nothing good i guess
shut garnet
honestly just play outlaw unless you're a sin onetrick or you REALLY wanna play the class
honest needle
unfortunately
honest needle
what should i use for outlaw so i make sur eim using the right pieces
shut garnet
sin is so stupidly gear dependant
honest needle
ok
honest needle
i dont even have blood and enemy unfortunaely
@shut garnet for outlaw i normally use this. you sure i should use vest ? https://gyazo.com/a72856ea4cdd6c52b355675f45746a24
?
@shut garnet
shut garnet
i tagged you in outlaw bud, this channel isnt for outlaw talk^^
dense cedar
How should I be doing Queen's Court as sin?
cobalt pelican
dot both bosses as frequently as you can without waddling around in slowmode
so step/swaps/room rotation, depends on how your raid are playing the fight exactly as to when it's convenient but do enough pulls and you'll roughly get some sort of pattern
kick/tricks/evasion for repeat performance
tropic ocean
@dense cedar have a look at dbm countdown or bigwigs countdown for when which ability comes
so dot up pashmar before outbreak -> go to sivaz
dot pashmar before shield on sivaz
etc
and when theres no ability that makes u need to move dot your current mob, shadowstep other mob and stay with him
glacial flare
hey guys. whats the best raidbots settings to sim zaqul ? hecticaddcleave or patch + X bosses ?
cobalt pelican
hecticaddcleave is largely useless this tier (and most tiers)
just use patchwerk and common sense (ie if ther e's an iteration with an extra np over something that doesn't have frontloaded haste scaling dmg not far behind, take that one)
glacial flare
alright. cheers!
olive edge
What essences do I use on zaqul if I only do 1 dilirium add?
distant lava
probably CLF lucid and idk PP maybe
vestal wren
the only wired talent choice i see in the talents you linked is MP in t1
distant lava
deeper ?
I mean if I had a sin player
playing with that build
on orgo progress
I legit wouldn't raid until he stopped trolling
vestal wren
oh, that was on orgozoa not in m+?
vestal wren
thats #1 orgozoa
tropic ocean
its not trolling when it blasts
vestal wren
if your raid can st the boss down while you pad all fine
tropic ocean
I mean he did more dps to orgozoa than I did with st build
shut garnet
yeah but top parsing runs normally tend to be top guilds letting certain ppl get 100 parses
tropic ocean
i mean
his guild is 6/8
and wr 1391
😄
so he just played well and did a lot of dmg
and who knows maybe they had aoe issues or whatever
cobalt pelican
orgozoa logs are liderally pointless
the longer and more scuffed your kill is
the more damage you do
tropic ocean
I mean the guy was #1 dmg on orgozoa and by far #1 dmg on adds
literally carrying his guild
vestal wren
you can say that for any log 
cobalt pelican
but it's not true on most fights
if you're not m anaging ads properly downstairs in orgozoa
you end up with double waves + the big ads
and it's not like it's 'good' to do so it just be how it do for some guilds
vestal wren
you can cheese on many fights
and logs are kinda pointless as a measurement of skill
cobalt pelican
yeah you can cheese some things but not to the extent of zaqul/orgozoa
tropic ocean
idk hes doing x2 dps of most ppl in the roster
while maintaining #1 on boss dps
just wp
cobalt pelican
o ok
scarlet sequoia
u cant rly cheese any other fights than orgozoa and zaqul
tropic ocean
if guy went st build theyd probably wipe 100times to arcing current and adds
tropic ocean
yeah so?
cobalt pelican
it's almost as if dps scales upwards the longer you don't kill the boss
tropic ocean
it does
just cant see how its qq if someone does what it takes his guild to kill the boss
🤷
cobalt pelican
eb assassination would only ever be what a guild needs to kill orgozoa
cobalt pelican
if the rogue can't play any other spec
and the roster
is fixed 20
with no other classes
tropic ocean
just check the log
see other ppl boss dmg and add dmg
noone cares of theoretical things when u can just read it straight up from log
cobalt pelican
you know what ads taking longer to kill benefits? sub
i mean you're reading the log wrong
vestal wren
i am not sure what the discussion is about...
tropic ocean
guy carried hard in his guilds kill
outdpsing afflocks on boss while running eb scent
vestal wren
i dont get the point nameless is making
cobalt pelican
i wouldn't consider sub 40k boss damage carrying anything really
vestal wren
sure certain circumstances make his log high, that does not mean he didnt play it well
tropic ocean
check the log and his other dps dmg to adds or boss
burnt dome
going "pad build" and still doing top dmg on single target means he's playing well and adapting to exactly what his guild needs (pad + ST)
cobalt pelican
if he was playing sub the p1 push would be 1 wave faster even if some players had to force focus the ads
and i'm not saying he SHOULD play sub
what i'm saying is
eb assassination is fine
it's just never neccessary
and playing it is purely a selfish play
which if you want to do
go for it
cloud sandal
All I'm missing is @cobalt pelican sending his logs on orgo M
tropic ocean
hes +20~25k on add dmg in p1
while being also 5th in boss dps in p1
literally carrying the add dps
cloud sandal
u are plode?
cobalt pelican
yes
tropic ocean
if he switched to st build probably 50% or less of his add dps
they will have overlap and more add waves as well
cobalt pelican
that's looking at your raid comp like
cloud sandal
3m damage difference on boss
cobalt pelican
purely as if nobody elses play can change
3m damage difference on the boss in a 1min longer fight..
idk why i even bother speaking to people who can't read
quasi pewter
this discussion
cloud sandal
hahahahaha
burnt dome
Fight took 8 min for mr Ying, he did 25m on adds and 18m on boss || first other rogue who went ST build & had a fight around 8 minutes is this guy: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/r4xBN3vDwhCFpZ9L#fight=23&type=damage-done who only did 18.5m ST dmg.
so personally I think ausgelebt is right on this one :p
(guy is about nr 300 parse orgo)
tropic ocean
idk take some minutes to look at his log
instead of saying "eb build is selfish play and never needed"
tropic ocean
u adapt to what ur raid needs
cobalt pelican
continue being regressive
cloud sandal
either way
seems like nameless is jealous because this guy decided to pad the boss and got rank1 log. Whether it was selfish or not
cobalt pelican
yes i am indeed very jealous
scarlet sequoia
who the hell cares, its orgozoa rofl
cobalt pelican
yin is a wonderful player with rank 1s on lots of bosses 🙂
cloud sandal
why u gotta make a big deal out of it
vestal wren
btw. why did you not play tornado?
cloud sandal
lol
burnt dome
ree, not agreeing with eachother isn't being jealous -.-
cobalt pelican
showed as only a ~200 st gain in 4t sim without considering that you can't use it for the 30s opener
so i decided mos was better overall
tropic ocean
imagine doing something good for your raid and getting a good log
shy axle
the discussion is basically: Guys someone used a talent/trait setup that is not common, how can he dare, does he not know it is wrong ?????
cobalt pelican
i use AskMrRobot
cloud sandal
hahahaha this discussion is too fun
hidden bay
sub 
karmic ingot
Guys, anyone who gets a better parse than me is padding.
Also anyone who gets a lower parse than me is literally trash.
cloud sandal
it's been dead ever since.
shut garnet
or what couldve happened on that orgo fight and the reason everyone else did low dmg is that they LET the adds live so he could do the most damage to them
which is the case for a lot of #1 parses for orgo lol
distant lava
I find that boss similar to opulence from last tier as in
the shittier your group the better your parse
shut garnet
i dont get why the idea of parse farming seems so alien to ppl
tropic ocean
@shut garnet yeah they wiped 17 times before just to perfect their timings so rogue can pad
at wr 1600 😄
shut garnet
yeah they just casually have a firemage and a shadow doing like half of the rogue's dmg
tropic ocean
they are just bad players
shut garnet
because thats how the fight is meant to go
tropic ocean
did you actually check the log?
that was their 2nd kill
😄
its not like they played bad on purpose to let rogue pad
they just are not good
in general
distant lava
18 
tropic ocean
so yeah on a fight that has more adds the longer the fight goes when ur raid is bad and has low dps
u can do a good log
shut garnet
okay, sure thefirst log might be an exception
check the 3rd
theres 2 outlaws and 1 assa
the outlaw doing 27k dps to the adds while the assa is assblasting them on 45k
the outlaw has a 99 parse on orgozoa
tropic ocean
im not sure what you are trying to prove
shut garnet
that MOST top parsers arent "top performers" or prodigies, theyre just parse farming
and the way assa's parses work for orgozoa is kinda eh
tropic ocean
ok but everyone knows that I guess?
shut garnet
Because 99/100 times you wont need the assa to go aoe when u have 2/3 firemages and shadow priests thats just
so what were you trying to prove if not the opposite of that :-?
tropic ocean
? all I said was thats not what happened in r1 sin rogue's parse he and demonhunter just happen to play very good in a roster of players that play very bad
🤷
arctic walrus
Are you saying anything above a 95 is a deliberate farm?
shut garnet
pretty much lol
Just look at the sivara logs
Assarogue's best kill time im terms of max dps is like 2min30
would you look at those kills, they're all around 2:30
Then you look at the guilds killing it and realise "wait a sec they can kill this boss in like 1min30 if they actually go full dps"
shut garnet
so your raid didnt slow dps on ur #3 parse?
shut garnet
ya probably an exaggeration, cant remember what the fastest time was
scarlet sequoia
2:20 is best kill time on sivara
i can promise you tho, that nobody is actually doing what u said
arctic walrus
And you do realize slower kill times hurt sin
shut garnet
2:20 kill timer hurts sin?
scarlet sequoia
i mean he is right 2:30 is a good kill time
but nobody is deliberately doing it so people can get a good log
cobalt pelican
i wouldn't be surprised if chinese guilds did
arctic walrus
You get a good parse through luck and gear
dark crag
Wouldn't ss be better in faster kill times?
scarlet sequoia
asians dont count lets be real
cobalt pelican
dam
shut garnet
why would it be
arctic walrus
Btw raz thought he was talking about even a slower kill than 2:30
scarlet sequoia
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3GaPUo3JTQvek4xMV8gpzg looks like ss is better on faster kills
lovely
scarlet sequoia
ofc ofc
scarlet sequoia
guess i try ss on sivara next week