do we actually have to multilate the explosives in m+
#assassination
left moth
sounds good to me 😄
rigid mango
But yes, you'd mut/env them if needed
But sin is v bad at doing it, so genuinly, do play with specs better off for this week
left moth
yeah i reallized that, it sucks
marble hemlock
envenom is good enough i would say
but outlaw/dh are just much better at it since they barely lose any damage on the pack and dont have to do anything that they normally wouldnt to kill them
rigid mango
Honestly, wits just makes it even better
marble hemlock
as assa you struggle a lot with explosives that spawn early. once youve got your bleeds set up and your energy sustain is secured, envenom with 1 or 2ttk oneshots them even at low-cp which is fine
you still proc bombs, you still get the envenom buff, but its not competitive to dh/outlaw
dim ravine
Is inkpod affected by TB?
rigid mango
No
distant lava
no
rigid mango
TB is whitelisted and only interacts with rogue abilities
dim ravine
Rip :(
oblique moon
What about w/vendetta?
nimble tinsel
Same thing
dire spoke
... your abilities ...
unique fossil
is there any catchup mechanics for daggers
i've been playing outlaw but i'd like to test assa yet I need two daggers for that, right? I only have the boosted 280 ones
is setting my loot spec to assasin and grinding the only way to go?
tropic ocean
you can buy higher ones of the auctionhouse
tropic ocean
other than that there is weapon caches from the chest weekly quests
and it drops 400-415 depending on ur ilvl i think?
unique fossil
nice thanks! i see some 370 ones on AH, that'll do
timber meadow
holy shit finally can get rid of my 415 socket offhand
golden plume
how much haste for raiding ? ST with MA
quasi pewter
however much ur sim tells you
golden plume
i wont be able to sim myself
(ptr testing)
just looking for a "" soft cap "" kinda
steady owl
tiny electromental in a jar is good for m+ isnt it? i got a 440 socketed. better than 430 harlans dice atleast?
tropic ocean
its not terrible
but also not very good
socket will probably make it superior to dice
tropic ocean
theres different ones for different preference
Spyglass + coral
Spyglass + font
Spyglass + harlans
spyglass + lurkers if you happen to have high ilvl one
steady owl
i dont feel like im good enougth to use coral, i keep using it on the wrong mob. what about lustrous golden plumage? is that more for outlaw?
light ferry
With the M+ build, how strong is our ST damage? Rn I am pretty low, 410. I am running 3xSS/EB/TtK/DD, and I can do more than 30k average at the end of the dungeons, but I can't reach 30k on bosses unless we use BL. I guess that our build should be focused on AoE but idk. Probably I am messing my rotation but I find my ST damage kinda week.
rigid mango
It's fine
shy dust
It doesn’t help that you’re 410 ilvl
rigid mango
You're on par with other specs if not better without stacking eb's too high
marble hemlock
It's definitely on the lower end of the spectrum when just looking at the current meta-specs (dh, ww, outlaw)
Depends heavily on whether you get a second Vendetta or not
rigid mango
Fort killtimers 
Sin also cares a bit more about stats and minmaxing than other specs like per say outlaw
rigid mango
Not the best ones though
We're not running dd np's
Just one NP would be a considerable increase
shut garnet
quite possibly
light ferry
And what stats shold I aim? I know that haste is BiS for ST and the worst for AoE, but in M+ I will have to deal with ST fights too, so... Crit>Haste>Mastery>Versa? Guess that haste gains value in Tyranical weeks, but I don't know.
rancid bobcat
you just suffer through low haste on boss
rancid bobcat
cause trash is still majority of your time spent
rigid mango
Depends on traits
rigid mango
If you're not stacking eb's, crit falls off earlier
And instead mastery takes over
You want a good mid 30's in crit, rest you dump into mastery as well as you can
light ferry
I am not planning to stack EB, so I guess I need to raise my mastery, which is low as shit rn
And haste is my higher stat so xd
light ferry
I am kinda afraid about losing haste, but well, since I have 3xSS, mastery sounds interesting
Tyvm
rigid mango
You play with lucid for energy
OP's for haste procs
You run blood major that has a haste proc
You can even add in weapon ench if you really feel like it
You're essentially getting tons of free haste without sacrificing a lot, when you're optimised
light ferry
Yes, that's a good point. Sadly my character have been level 120 for 2 days, so I my essences are trash. I have only 1xOP and the left hand haste enchant, but well, I understand now why haste isnt that important with the right gear. Ty again
rigid mango
Yeah, you'll notice that sin becomes a lot more enjoyable and effective the more optimised you are
light ferry
BotE seems quite sick for sin
rigid mango
It's a big jump up from any other essence for sure
light ferry
So I will have to return to the grind
rigid mango
It just fits pretty much every aspect of sin
strange python
Hey guys i just begin sin rogue here what's the MM+ talent? ty!!
rigid mango
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
strange python
ok ty
lost horizon
you may wanna consider taking off crippling for some situations though, like sanguine weeks in M+
rigid mango
Meh, I still barely ever take it off
It's still useful and most of the time sang fucks something it's far from crippling poison's fault
arctic walrus
Take it off on azshara that's it
lost horizon
i mean yeah, but if you're slowing shit as it walks through sang that's just inting
fallen ivy
In my Vendetta and toxic blade window do i want to x2 mutilate and envenom at 4+ combo points or wait till i have 5 during that window?
fallen ivy
So i envenom until my empowered garrote falls off then i vanish garro garro rup and then continue build spend?
Like i dont want to reapply rup during that window right?
lost horizon
you should reapply rupture if it will fall off always
but you want to plan to have enough rupture duration left so that it won't fall off during TB
fallen ivy
Ah ok
Going to be trying out assassin for raid for the first time this week so i am making sure i do well lol.
hazy geyser
do you guys run crit or haste food?
arctic walrus
Run stat weights and pick your highest
hazy geyser
my stats keep fluctuating between crit and haste
glad compass
even though blood of the enemy is 1.5min cd and vendetta is 2min we still always use them together?
vestal dagger
Isn’t crippling generally a bad idea outside of pvp?
lost horizon
nah, helps tanks kite
lament leaf
Sup guys, im new to rogue, is there any way to balance ST dmg and AOE for M+?
im currently going with 3 EB, 3 SS
thinking in 3 Ss, 2 TTK and 1 EB
and i have spyglass, phial and dice as trinkets
lament leaf
doesnt matter the week?
arctic walrus
use spyglass and dice, do you have coral/inkpod
lament leaf
not yet
arctic walrus
kk so spyglass and dice
lament leaf
my stats are 32 crit, 10 haste 42 mastery
arctic walrus
That's fine, what are you essences
arctic walrus
How do you grind for blood 3 and yet don't do the simple dailies for rank 3 lucid
that is a huge buff you are missing
arctic walrus
It's 5-10 minutes of dailies a day, for a month? Minus things like barks, Work on that immediatly
lament leaf
ye even with that im struggling to hit 35k dps overall
probably rotation issues 😒
still you can go far as an assa rogue? or outlaw totally dominate higher keys?
arctic walrus
Both are played at a high level. Outlaw is generally more appealing however due to it being easier to pick up and less reliance on gear
lament leaf
kk thx for the info
grave trail
whats the second bis after gorak tul shoulders?
lost horizon
gotta sim for yourself to be sure, but tentacle laced spaulders are good ST
radiance/orgozoa shoulders also aren't too bad
depending on your other pieces
grave trail
hmm i havent messed much with it but droptimizer lets me compare?
lost horizon
it'll literally sim all the vendor options for you
grave trail
ah gotcha thanks
lost horizon
if you're doing mythic you should look into behemoth chest though
stacking NP isn't really great, value drops off after the first one
grave trail
i know behemoth is bis but im afraid with to drop one DD + Nothing personal
id have 0 nothing personal
NP?
grave trail
ah gotcha
lost horizon
but if you've got one it kind of opens up more options
right now since you're using NP on chest, something like tentacle-laced shoulders wouldn't sim as well
grave trail
well only way i can get one is if i kill zaqul
or maybe i can get it on the shoulders
lost horizon
orgo shoulders, tentacle laced, gorak are all good options with NP
grave trail
tentacle laced hmm
lost horizon
gorak being top ofc
grave trail
those vendor?
lost horizon
yes
grave trail
oh yes just so them
so hmmm rolling twice doesnt sound as bad
2 in /6
i get an upgrade
saw them*
sorry im high asf lol
i only have 435's right now
OMFG
i just rolled and got the gorak tul
first roll
sand whale
congrats and a fuck you is in order but really congrats
I'd aim for the anything btw if you already have behemoth chest
sand whale
iirc there's not a lot of options for helm even a heroic helm zaqul would be equivalent to the eng helm
so you're pretty much free to get whatever piece you want next
grave trail
yeah well right now we at queens court
so im guessing zaqul wont be a kill till next month
queens court 30% prog
grave trail
meh i dont think slithering loa is better than my eng helm for me at least
scent of blood really weak imo
drifting cloud
you dont take scent on loa lol
steep obsidian
i was trying to fish for loa but ended up getting zaqul helm
probably no point even trying to fish for anything else coz ceph would be so tiny anyway
vast forum
fish chest > ceph for me at least
strange python
Guys bloodmallet tell Memory lucid is the 2nd best choice in major Solotarget that's really good as that?
rigid mango
No
The major itself is meh
The minor is the thing you really want
You'll want clf major
strange python
kk
bleak dune
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
hoary patrol
Is loyal to the end trait good when 5 people in the raid run it?
valid spoke
Yes
blissful storm
Hey at around how many enemies should I focus more on FoK spam rather than spreading garrote?
edgy pawn
you ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS want to get out 3 garrotes when playing ss
young portal
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
rocky rain
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
astral onyx
i guarentee this has been asked a million times, but I can't see an answer in the guide or pins. How do you use font?
before vendetta?
steady owl
so i finally got bote 3. how do i use it in dungeons? And do i wait 30 sec to time it with vendetta/vanish after the 3 garrottes?
oh its in the pins sorry
rancid bobcat
How do you think you should use font
somber bison
Then before vendetta comes up
astral onyx
thanks for the info 🙂
rigid mango
Yes, and if you have coral with it, check #tc-updates for a paragraph about the usage
astral onyx
perfect thanks
scarlet sequoia
Np
obtuse ruin
for m+ what 3rd minor essence is viable if im using iris major and lucid minor for now? too lazy to farm bote
obtuse ruin
ty
scarlet sequoia
np
gloomy steppe
If I'm forced to go assassination on progress on Orgozoa, there is no point to use any FoK, right?
royal lantern
thats the first time i hear that somone is forced too play SIN on that fight lel
but ye, if you need more st dmg, you just do your normal st stuff with 0 fok
distant lava
I'm confused lol
tropic ocean
maybe they desperately need boss dmg?
mystic dragon
Is it better to use TB on cd if there’s no way to save the combo point or try to keep lining it up with just the right amount of cp and energy?
mystic dragon
I normally try to, but sometimes I get gunshy on it trying to line it up to maximize damage while the debuff is on and I feel like I’m missing casts over the course of a fight
mystic dragon
Is it ever worth burning the cp? I feel like it might be better off dumping cps and just using tb to get it on cd
Like maybe during burst windows?
edgy pawn
if youre at 5 cp when tb comes off cd, you press it regardless
muted swallow
how viable is 3x Shrouded Suffocation pared with Subterfuge? looks pretty neat
muted swallow
i scrolled through some logs and there is 1 chinese whos blasting with it
muted swallow
every
edgy pawn
not far behind MA i'd guess
cobalt pelican
i wouldn't really consider this to be blasting
it's playable just suboptimal, if you want to play it in raid go for it
neon tendon
Hey folks, can someone tell if the trait loyal to the end stacks its cap if i got it two times or more? Or does only the mastery gain per ally stack?
polar cape
If multiple people die in range of you yoi have multiple buff
If they have loyal equip
vast forum
the cap stacks too
basically you can treat 2x loyal as 2 different traits that do the same thing 😛
dark crag
anyone here using the font before vend+coral tactic?
rigid mango
You mean using both trinkets?
dark crag
i mean like in the tc-research
dark crag
before that it was 10 sec pre vendetta+coral when ready
rigid mango
No, it's been like that since I made it that way
For like, 3.5 months now or something
It's the reason it sims so stupidly well
dark crag
vend 2 min, tb 25 sec cd, so both used together means tb gets ready 5 sec after vend. that means i cast tb 20 secs before vend gets ready, do you use font after tb debuff runs off or how?
rigid mango
You just align them?
marble hemlock
tb generally lines up pretty well with the font+coral overlap during the last 10sec of vendetta
rigid mango
The apl uses font at 1:56
dark crag
and where is vanish in this scenario?
rigid mango
With coral
Is what the APL does anyways
But I've talked to koji about it and you can move around tb and vanish between them there
rigid mango
And aslong as you're doing it after vend you'll see +- no dff
marble hemlock
ymmv
rigid mango
You font, wait 10 sec, vend, then coral in 6 sec
Wait
The apl hits tb before coral
But vanish with coral
Iirc that's what it did last time I tried to help optimise it
dark crag
how much is the gain? tc-research lists 0.8-1% gain
plain moon
how is tb before coral better? Would assume you would want the extra crit on TB
rigid mango
Gain where?
It's a very small diff where you use tb and vanish aslong as it's after vend
dark crag
Updated SimC usage of Font+Coral for Assa. This change seemed to net solid 0.8-1% gains depending on build and the best I've found so far.
dark crag
10 sec pre vend
rigid mango
But at the time I gained like near 1k sim dps
plain moon
oh i see, its cause you have to hold TB a few secs to pair it with coral
rigid mango
Ye, pretty much
There's issues with moving TB always
Thanks to how strict the usage is
In the apl
rigid mango
It's just that the 30 sec of font starts from when you end the channel
rigid mango
But the internal trinket cd starts from initial cast
So you can get a vend wirh full font
And 14 sec of coral
dark crag
did someone test starting font at 5 sec after the last tb before vend. I mean you waste tb time but 5 sec can be 2+ envs + mutis
plain moon
I dont try to cast font a specific time after TB, just once I know I wont get any more env in my TB window
rigid mango
Just start channeling font when you see tb is on 15 sec left and vend is up within 14
I just cba with minmaxing since I know the diff is tiny, so I just pop tb direcrlt after vend
Have MA for first part of TB, coral the rest
Simple and works
dark crag
tried it with around 5 sec after last tb before next vend. used tb env and spamed muti env until energy was low. used font and vend+tb+coral/vanish once tb was ready again
vend was off cd for 5 sec
rigid mango
You should use vend and coral as you always do with font coral
Those timers don't change
It's more about where you place vanish and tb within those parameters
dark crag
i get what you mean, but the tb is so off with the 25 sec that naturally one has to be held off cd. be it tb or vend/vanish to get font+coral
and tb is too short to for such things
rigid mango
You can hold vend coral font
If you wont lose a cast
But they should always be cast the exact GCD amount from one anothee
Every single time
So you can delay them if it works better with tb that way for sure
Aslong as that wont cost you a cast at the end
dark crag
i know that if we only get 2 vends in a fight, we can use the 2nd when it best fits but what i don't like is how font channel interacts with tb. tb is always somehow in the way, be it that it was just used or it comes off cd soon.
rigid mango
Well
Entire TB is 10 GCD's
So if you font as soon as it's done, you get to vend 14 sec later, and TB will come off cd 1-2 GCD's after you use vend
And you havn't had any loss in uptime what so ever
rigid mango
Ok if you're on a blank slate
Let's put it like this
You TB at 0:00
By 0:10 you're channeling font
0:24 you use vend
0:25 tb is up, you use it, same for vanish
0:30 coral is free from internal CD, you use it
You've now achieved 0 downtime, and proper cd usage
dark crag
ah now i understand what you mean, i thought coral should be used with vend together at the same exact moment
rigid mango
Nah
You prio full 20 sec of vend inside of font
You end up with full font uptime and 14 sec of coral, inside of vend
dark crag
my 2nd vendetta gets ready 5 sec before tb
dark crag
i mean if vend gets ready 5 sec before a fight ends, does it really do much?
dark crag
boss dead is what matters in the end
prio to this i just used font around 10 sec before i would do the next tb/vend/vanish cycle and get the last half of vend with coral
if you use vend+tb in the opener you have to endure the 5 sec
rigid mango
Ye, that was super inefficient so I found this way instead
dark crag
but did it really changed much? prio you also got full font in vend+10 sec coral
can you log a trainingsdummy?
rigid mango
Ye
dark crag
do i start it like in the raid?
rigid mango
And here you get another 4 sec of coral in vend + font
Dunno, never done it
I'd assume so
dark crag
maybe it must be livelog
worked with livelogs
font at 1:57, vend 2:10, tb 2:11, coral 2:18 because lag
strange python
Is assassination good regardless of content type?
strange python
Awesome
dark crag
although you need different azerite for m+ and raid. Outlaw needs 1 trait and they tend to also use it in raid, so they need 1 azerite set
dark crag
wait until 9.0 when range subs steal the show
strange python
Range subs?
dark crag
survival went melee und sub wil go range
strange python
Wouldn’t be surprised if they add a class with a very similar concept
At least as assassination we can throw knives at people
devout bolt
Inkpod dmg affected by anything Else than Crit?
signal ruin
When running 3x SS in M+ on trash, should I be using Garrote outside the initial 3? Or only spreading rupture/envenom from then onwards?
rancid bobcat
Just rupture
signal ruin
Cool thanks - felt like it was slowing my rotation a lot, just wanted to check
steady owl
when i use bote in aoe should i just spam fok for those 10 sec or use envenom as well? I feel like its a wasted global idk
mystic dragon
Better than wasting cps
steady owl
in m+
mystic dragon
What traits are you running?
steady owl
3ss 2 eb 1ttk
mystic dragon
Use envenoms
You never wanna waste combo points, especially not with taking a trait that directly buffs envenom
rancid bobcat
garrote dot can crit, but it cannot generate an extra combo point when you apply it
quasi pewter
with 2eb and only 1ttk you definitely want to spam fok on high target count if there is no prio target / higher hp mobs @steady owl
but thats only at like 6+ targets i believe (?)
actually 6 targets might be with 3 eb not sure how many it is with 2
heavy charm
!weakauras
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
balmy bridge
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
onyx hedge
I mained my rogue for 4-5 years until this patch and went boomkin for Mythic, dont worry, im coming back to the stabby stabby gang
modest tendon
Going to mess around with bleed build next week, I’m going 3ss, 2eb. Should I take SoB or ttk for last trait?
rigid mango
Ttk
modest tendon
SoB sims better on larger packs
rigid mango
This is tyr week anyways right? Just means that even if you don't like how ttk plays
It's still just better by default
Sim as in overall?
modest tendon
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2tsfKsrCiUZczdAQnHYk1Z I mean for larger packs, 1 minute, 10 adds
rigid mango
Myeh on those giga pulls I wouldn't be shocked
You're just mongo ct/foking anyways
So ye, can be decent there
I'll do more sims on all of these things later today and see what I can see
modest tendon
im running some smaller pack sims now
rigid mango
Well with CT especially you're losing out on ttk value
modest tendon
its feeling very viable tbh, i quite like it
rigid mango
Because it's another finisher that wont be env
modest tendon
boss damage is my only worry, that and Im not very good with exsang
but next reset i dont need to worry about boss damage as much
rigid mango
Yeah, I'm worried about how you get boss damage back when you're sacrificing PB and essentially your ttk's
Although I can sorta see ttk working with the amount of mastery you're pumping anyways
modest tendon
I find myself spending a lot more time keeping poisons up with this build rather than envenom pumping, especially how if I were to go SoB
rigid mango
Yeah, ofc
rigid mango
But I'm just interested in what you can piclk to make up for the ST loss
I mean, 1 NP would be good wirh all the mastery
modest tendon
I'm thinking just not to worry about it
rigid mango
Well, if anything that'll be this build's downfall
modest tendon
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eqLFoiz6u9PX12T8HuMoZR 4 targets. 1 minute
rigid mango
Just trying to think of ways it wont get fucked over
modest tendon
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gy9quSrLZdNsmpCJt2nAAY 3 targets, 1 minute
SoB comes out on top on pretty much every pack size
rigid mango
I'll add that I think the valuation of bleed uptime is far greater than envenoms in those sims
Iirc there APL really likes applying bleeds
Anyhow, I'll give it a look over later
See what I can find
modest tendon
I should probably learn how to read APL's tbh, im interested to see how much envenom pumps they are doing
I'll stick around then 🙂 This is keeping the class a bit fresh
rigid mango
If you do a quick sim same options, you can just scroll down
And you click whatever button there and you get the entire log of what it does every gcd
modest tendon
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gacWwra49XTVn73yPghosU so on single target poison bomb obviously does a lot more damage but exsang>tb?
theres also only about 400 dps difference between SoB and TTK
which is likely big on dps check bosses like hearstbane triad
but on chill bosses its not that big
grave trail
does anyone here mess around with the custom lag tolerance
cobalt pelican
there's like no reason to unless you have real bad network problems
and generally the aoe apl is just miles away from 'recommended gameplay' currently for assassination
gnerally people recommend garrote 3 rupt 1/2 and fok on the minimum amount of energy income required with no garrotes that aren't empowered
the apl maintains rupture on everything, and garrotes outside subterfuge consistently as long as it knows timetodie isn't ridiculously low
dark crag
Don't put it too low and not too high but for assa it doesn't matter much, unlike outlaw with ar up where gcd gets reduced and the game can sometimes fire double ss back to back because of the spellqueue and LT set too high
New standard is 400, old value was 250
Many don't even know it was there but you had to disable it if you didn't want it on in the old days
umbral rain
Hey! Getting into m+ with Assassination, what trait combos am I looking for and which stats?
tropic ocean
crit and mastery
low haste
mostly 3 shrouded suffocation and rest to your likings
twist the knife, echoing blades
loyal to the end if rest of your team uses it as well
umbral rain
At the moment I have triple Echoing Blades is that too many?
tropic ocean
probably yeah
im running 1 atm
2 for teeming fortified
with the smaller pull sizes and restealths u can get shrouded is your strongest trait at the moment
sinful island
What trinkets do you run with for m+?
umbral rain
Coral worth it on lower keys?
sinful island
Is coral really that good? I feel you won't get that much crit from it
royal lantern
you apply it on the target with most hp/priority target
you get crit when it dies and apply a new coral
you dont really re-use it on trash
sinful island
I see! Thanks. I have coral + a high ilvl version of the one from freehold - that should also do the trick?
I have spyglass in 430 tho i think
tropic ocean
spyglass is your best m+ trinket due to constant crit buffs
I use dice+spyglass and azshara trinket depening on key/affix
sinful island
Yeah dice is the one I have in 440!
royal lantern
430 spyglass is fine
you wont get a better one without spamming dungeons or beeing lucky with the chest anyway
sinful island
So dice + spyglass is the best combo for me and skip coral?
Also have the cannonball runner from TD in 455 - wish that was good.
tropic ocean
it comes down to your playstyle
i personally cant bother re-applying coral 24/7 and the dps difference is small
cannonball is good dps wise, only issue it has is the mobs cant be moved once it procs so
hard to coordinate that
sinful island
Thanks for the info!
scarlet sequoia
np
compact parrot
Hey guys, what fight style would you say to sim best for Queens Court?
distant lava
1target patchwerk
distant lava
nah
cause that has the 2 targets packed
it's basically 1 target and sometimes you swap to the other one with dots still running on the old one
tropic ocean
its basically what you have for assassination in the fight
30-40% uptime of dots on 2nd mob
as the rotation dont change having 1 or 2 target except for the dot part
and a little bit of poison bomb
oh even more, 60-70% dot uptime
subtle tundra
wait hidden blades is viable?
arctic walrus
In what type of content
subtle tundra
m+
distant lava
yes
arctic walrus
It's not necessarily bad, but pb will virtually always out perform it
The higher the key or the bigger the density of pulls the more it has potential
subtle tundra
cause im doing some 10s with another assa and he has 3xss 3xeb with hidden blades and he does more aoe than me but that was 1 dungeon(ml)
arctic walrus
Well many factors play into that. Your own traits, his being very very aoe focused, essences, etc
subtle tundra
i had 2x ss 2x eb 1 ttk 1 loyal we both had bote
tropic ocean
obviously his setup is higher than yours for overall
arctic walrus
Yeah so starting off, you have more mastery and less aoe than him
tropic ocean
And hb favors aoe dmg
arctic walrus
On boss fights, assuming you had good play you should've been beating him
tropic ocean
If you use blackwater chest u should use ttk ss instead of ttk loyal
subtle tundra
loyal is from radiance shoulders
tropic ocean
oh nvm then 😛
iron heath
hey whats the traits for high m plus keys again?
muted owl
!aoe
Huh, what's the basic aoe rotation?
Just spam garrote FoK and rupture on everythin?
robust river
Stealth > Garrote x3 > Rupture > FOK/Rupture Spam. Use coral on whatever is going to die first. You want 4 ruptures up I believe for "unlimited" energy. Don't refresh Garrotte.
That's my understanding of it.
muted owl
Why no refresh
muted owl
Huh
Okay
And do I need some specific traits? I prioritise suffocation and double dose
arctic walrus
You want 4-5 bleeds not ruptures
You never pick up dd in m+
baseline is 3ss 1 eb and a mix of stuff like ttk and bbi
muted owl
So basically for m+ i reforge
robust river
AOE you want 3 SS and 1 EB. After that whatever you have which is good.
muted owl
What is EB btw
muted owl
Oh the fok stack thing?
robust river
No that's Hidden Blades the talent.
robust river
Poison Bomb is considered default. There is arguemnt or HB as some people in top keys are runningit. I haven't seen any math to say it's better yet though.
muted owl
Cool, thanks!
shy axle
usage of blood essence in m+ with 2/2/2 combo in St - Gar-rup-gar- essence + vendetta and go on? or some special usage i can`t think of right now
robust river
Section in PINS for blood usage I think
arctic walrus
It's vendetta tb blood env
shy axle
ty, totaly forgot if it is in the pins or if there is a !command
scarlet sequoia
np
valid spoke
What fight length should I use to sim myself for Azshara? Was thinking 1 min, and then just not simming CLF major, but i don't know if that's the right apporach
arctic walrus
You just run your ST set up with blood major
tropic ocean
@valid spoke azshara is depending on your dps 10:30-11min most likely
strange python
I like how it lets garrote from stealth gen 3 combo points
arctic walrus
SS is the best in m+ and okay in raids. If you have at least one, you'll want to run subterfuge as well
tropic ocean
you only use mutilate on bosses and single mobs, not in aoe
Its not dependant on a trait
strange python
I mean the less I use it the better
Since it drains a ton of energy
Do we have a trait like dh does that reduces the cost of it?
rancid bobcat
no
rigid mango
The more targets you have the more bleeds you spread, the more bleeds you spread the more energy you gain
strange python
Oof
rancid bobcat
its just how the spec is designed
rigid mango
Sin doesn't have cheapening effects, we have ways or gaining energy to the point where it gains more each GCD than you can spend
strange python
So dot them with garrote then spread poisons like crazy?
rigid mango
Going energy positive and essentially GCD locking.
strange python
ST though seems hard
tropic ocean
it will feel better
strange python
Yeah
tropic ocean
Once you reach maxlvl and acquire gear
strange python
Maybe if I had more haste
rigid mango
It's still slow
tropic ocean
At 116 you‘re at the worst lvl energy-wise
steep lagoon
You guys go with PP or VoP on Za'qul mythic? (signed for 3 deliriums)
rigid mango
Sin is a slow spec, in comparison to a lot more
arctic walrus
visions
strange python
The WORST, really?
rigid mango
VoP if you're doing echos
tropic ocean
Yeah
strange python
Oh well
steep lagoon
kk, thx 🙂
strange python
It’s fun though
tropic ocean
It will get a lot better at 120 with items and essences
strange python
Yeah
tropic ocean
116 is where leggies stop working and your stats dropped to the lowest
strange python
Ah
strange python
Well I didn’t have any legendaries to begin with so...
rigid mango
It's mind boggeling really.
strange python
Nice
rancid bobcat
dont judge a spec based on how it is while leveling
i mean you wouldnt do the same to dh right
rigid mango
Sin's terrible to level with.
strange python
Meh, I only really struggle with some rates
*rares
Outlaw and sub are better for that I found
rancid bobcat
leveling is just for story and lore
tropic ocean
Its normal you shouldnt worry about it
tropic ocean
apm will increase a lot compared to your current level
strange python
Cool
And as my GCD decreases, I can garrote more people before the talent wears off
tropic ocean
No
rigid mango
GCD is set on 1 sec
strange python
Oh
rigid mango
Only blood lust changes that
rigid mango
You don't
If you're doing echos you take blood major and VoP 2nd minor. If you're going down to delirium frequently you drop some haste.
pearl ingot
How do you Guys sim ashvane myth? Patchwork with slight movement?
marble hemlock
bloodlust doesnt change GCD ><
tropic ocean
sim patchwerk
wild tiger
Hi
marble hemlock
unless some client/server fuckery happens, you dont ever get 4garrotes in subterfuge. ever.
dark crag
Bl is just haste
marble hemlock
well, it affects vendetta and detection GCD
but none of the other abilities GCD is affected by haste
tropic ocean
think I had 170% haste or smth in delirium
and still could only fit 3 spells into MA
pearl ingot
@tropic ocean ty
I would play cdl Major and focusing Iris and lucid as minors for ashvane... Any different oppinions?
pearl ingot
2
tropic ocean
then i'd use blood of the enemy major
marble hemlock
id say thats the perfect reason to play CLF
tropic ocean
cuz you will most likely hold cooldown for shield down
pearl ingot
And for 3 cdl?
lost horizon
Uh, idk about that
marble hemlock
since you only get 2 vendettas which are 3mins apart during nuke phases
lost horizon
If you're progging 2 phase CLF is way better
marble hemlock
which is perfect for clf
lost horizon
Yeah
You hold, pop CLF and vendetta ~1min in
Then hold vendetta till 4min mark approximately, after 2nd shield for hero+CLF+vendetta
tropic ocean
🤔
rancid bobcat
Go play sub then 
pearl ingot
@lost horizon
How do you know about the 1 min mark. Do you setup a Timer?
Or are there other signs...
tropic ocean
its solely down to your raids dps
rancid bobcat
You just hold CDs until shield breaks
Usually about 30s for 1st shield
1 min 1st shield break is 
rancid bobcat
Ok maybe 40 seconds idk it's been a while
rigid mango
I think I get 3 tb's before it drops
rigid mango
That's standard
rancid bobcat
Wat
lost horizon
50sec
tropic ocean
theres no way u break shield in 30s without lusting it
lost horizon
Cause you aim to phase before 2nd wave
@tropic ocean you can if 2min just pop CDs on pull
tropic ocean
(while holding cds)
lost horizon
Yeah
rancid bobcat
Man I just know that I get like 1 tb
rigid mango
Myeh, I think I pop cds on 4th tb
tropic ocean
idk what you are doing
pearl ingot
Okay i will test ist some trys. Thxs Guys.
tropic ocean
but u dont break shield in 30s
lost horizon
The idea is to break first shield before 2nd Wave hits, 2nd wave casts at like 45 sec, so you want to break before the bubbles actually hit boss at around 50sec
tropic ocean
idk how u gonna do that without lust or cds
tropic ocean
theres some guilds that lust shield
and 2phase
but the killtime is like 3.30~4min
lost horizon
They use CDs on pull though
tropic ocean
so the raid dps is generally very high
lost horizon
And just bigdick through
tropic ocean
its a more efficient approach
not sure guilds that starting to progress it can do it
usually in 2 phase in a higher dps raid shield breaks 50s-1min holding cds and bl
lost horizon
Nobody progged heroing on pull
lost horizon
Timings to aim for on prog are ~50sec first shield break, ~3:30 (likely a bit later) second break
tropic ocean
idk how u get these timings
rigid mango
It's what
lost horizon
Off wave casts
rigid mango
1 min for first shield
tropic ocean
50s-1min around yeah
rigid mango
1 min of dps?
tropic ocean
on a good dps raid
lost horizon
Should be less than 1min first shield
rigid mango
And then 1.5 to break 2nd shield probs
distant lava
yeah for us first shield was like
rigid mango
And then another 1 min of dps tops
distant lava
a bit shorter than prepot
rigid mango
Sooo, abut 4.5-5 min?
Esp if you're supposed to get a comfy 2nd clf cast in 2nd window
distant lava
yeah it's around 5 mins for 2 phase strat
depends on how fast you break the shields
tropic ocean
by now like
4.30ish in geared raid
but yeah
first 2phase was 5.17 or smth for us
distant lava
yeah I haven't recleared in a while
tropic ocean
50s first shield break wont happen in a raid that just progresses the fight
(while trying to do 2 phase strat)
57s on first 2phase in our raid
in 6th or 7th reclear
rigid mango
Sounds about right
tropic ocean
so everyone knew the fight already at wr 200smth
lost horizon
Maybe not right now, because you likely don't have high raid DPS if you're only just progging
steep obsidian
They did nerf the shield a few weeks ago
tropic ocean
they nerfed total boss hp
lost horizon
My first 2phase timing, but we only started 2phasing later than we should've, so post nerf I would expect these timings
Doesn't shield scale off boss health?
tropic ocean
yes
tropic ocean
but you compare dps of guilds that killed the boss pre nerf
to someone that just starts the fight
and even currently, 50s is pretty decent for first shield break
lost horizon
Either way, you need to break before 2nd wave hits
steep obsidian
I mean we killed it with 3 shields first kill
lost horizon
So you can kite or have lucky coral spawn and get more time
tropic ocean
you don't "need" to
lost horizon
Otherwise you have to soak close waves
tropic ocean
but yeah it helps
lost horizon
Which sucks
steep obsidian
If your whole raid has 65 2shield should be trivial
If they don’t tell them to stop slacking
tropic ocean
@steep obsidian cant follow that logic
steep obsidian
Yeah I guess they’d suck
tropic ocean
neck 65 wont make the fight different if you just started it
tropic ocean
I mean why so many guilds couldnt kill it before nerf
fight was trivial even without neck 65
steep obsidian
Yeah
tropic ocean
I killed ashvane yesterday with my alt in altraid in another guild and we barely 2 phased it
steep obsidian
I tend to assume my guild is kind of bad but it’s all relative
tropic ocean
in a guild that is 5/8
with like 10ilvls more and neck 65
than I had when I 2 phased ashvane
🤷
tropic ocean
after orgozoa and qc being not a good sin encounter kinda liked that we're big pimps on zaqul and queen
steep obsidian
You should never have to leave boss if your range don’t suck
tropic ocean
on queen?
tropic ocean
guess depends on setup but yeah usually not leaving boss as sin there
steep obsidian
Council sin is the strongest melee but still terrible compared to any ranges
tropic ocean
yeah sadly
you can pump in court but its kinda scuffed to play like that
instead of just playing spriest or destro while doing more dps and chillin
strange python
how you guys simming for zaqul ? only patchwerk 7 min =
rigid mango
You literally asked this
I answered
Let me copy paste
If you're doing echos you take blood major and VoP 2nd minor. If you're going down to delirium frequently you drop some haste.
steep obsidian
You shouldn’t really need to min max that much for echoes if everyone gets down with cds
for your cds
steep obsidian
I think I snuck in 4 but the first is just a waste anyway cuz we have to spend like 30 secs auto attacking
arctic walrus
You get 4-5, that's about it
strange python
@rigid mango sorry it seems im stupid.. dont see it ^^ thy
rigid mango
visual topaz
What essences you use for EP raid ?
rigid mango
Check each fight on WCL
versed bobcat
!changes
prisma monolithBOT
versed bobcat
Wait weren't there assa changes Inc in 8.3
distant lava
no
versed bobcat
Ok. Mate told me fok got nerfed guess he trolled me
distant lava
cause after 8.2.5 the tooltip was saying fok gave 3k+ combo points
they just fixed that
robust river
Is blackwater vest from fish boss actually good? Traits look awkward
I assume it's good if your in a raid using Loyal?
tropic ocean
@distant lava u mean i dont get 3k combo points anymore?
royal lantern
i want my 4014CP it gave on 8.2.5 launch again
pearl ingot
@tropic ocean ty did it. It s haste.
rancid bobcat
for me it's nice cheap mastery food
plain moon
is it worth energy pooling for TB at 5CP or is it just better to env just before TB comes up and no longer waste the TB CP
arctic walrus
It's okay to use tb even if you're capped on points
severe osprey
inkpod doesnt work on azshara ?
plain moon
Its about the small gain of having energy going into TB vs the small gain of having not wasted that CP
arctic walrus
Having energy and cp going into tb isn't a small gain
It's the difference of fitting an entire extra envenom in
If you env and then tb, You're at 1-2 cp, low energy and now you have to basically work your way up
plain moon
So the answers its better to just waste the CP then
comes down to is 30% extra on a envenom worth 1-2CP assuming not pooling is going to be the diff between and envenom
arctic walrus
@severe osprey can you elaborate
severe osprey
@arctic walrus I have seen several occurence when the stack doesnt proc even after 30%
on azshara
severe osprey
well its only seem to happen on her so idk
rigid mango
I've seen it happen else where too.
severe osprey
oh well
balmy kraken
Can anyonr explain to me why conflict and strife is used by assass rogues on azshara'
rigid mango
Because you swap targets a lot
balmy kraken
And why its better then beam or blood for example
last jetty
What would you say is a good amount of energy to pool to w/ vigor talented?
tropic ocean
for tb?
as close as you can get to max
without overcapping
and not dropping dots
strange python
how's blindside?
vapid scarab
terrible
strange python
oh...
vapid scarab
not only is it undertuned but it also contradicts our best ST trait
fluid crystal
Why is BoTe main used on Azhara over Condensed? Is is just because of the phase one adds or is there another reason?
fluid crystal
so 5 uses instead of 3
drifting cloud
its better for logging, not a huge deal with actual killing the boss
rigid mango
I mean
You get two in last phase
You just essentially get bote up when you kinda want it
drifting cloud
yeah thats the only one that makes a difference
fluid crystal
Thanks 🙂
drifting cloud
its not a must have or anything if you dont have it
tropic ocean
bote just happens to line up really good with 1st boss push
1st add
and boss push again
its overall less dps than clf but its more dps at the right points of the fight
muted owl
for Aoe - Scent of Blood or Double Dose?
rigid mango
Scent
tropic ocean
@scarlet sequoia for overall dps?
from logs its kinda hard to judge as majority just uses bote and for simming idk how to sim 20% 2 target and some add burst for 10sec and rest st 😄
scarlet sequoia
its overall better for the fight yeah
only point in the fight where clf would be better is the last 50% i guess, but even then bote is still obviously good
shut garnet
the fact that you also get 2 botes in 1 clf makes it pretty solid too
hidden bay
essence doesnt matter for azshara overall dps Kappa if u get buff in last phase u are good to go doesnt matter which essence u play
shut garnet
galaxy brain
grave socket
Hi
Haven't been online since the darkshore warfront dropped, any noteworthly changes for ass? Mainly play in a pvp server.
timber meadow
thoughts on blood vs. guardian for azshara?
arctic walrus
Just take blood
marble hemlock
guardian is better for overall dps, blood just lines up well with the very important phases of the fight and is better for progression imo
can use it for first hulk, p2 burn, first+third tidemistress
timber meadow
coud you use it on pull and then on 2nd hulk?
and then again on burn?
i haven't tried it so not sure if it lines up like that or if it's better to just hold on pull and use on 1st hulk
arctic walrus
You can but then you desync it from your vendetta by 1.5min
timber meadow
tru thx
devout thicket
If I am playing subterfuge with SS, should I refresh the empowered garrote with normal one at 6 seconds left, or should I rather wait till the last second of the empowered one? Not sure exactly how the pandemic works.
edgy pawn
You let the empowered one drop off and reapply after
devout thicket
thanks
honest needle
should i roll for chest or just go for outlaw gear https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jLy5e7Vw25Vo5j2o3a7kiL
arctic walrus
Do you raid? If yes, then don't roll chest and get zaq helm and blackwater chest. If no, then it depends if you care about 300 damage to sin, or however much you gain as outlaw
Only you can make the decision of what you want to prioritize more.
honest needle
i dont use that trait
Im just trying to find what to roll for i cant deicde
i have alot of residue
this is my outlaw stuff https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3u1AhjXnJ9rcQXp5nd9887
wrong channel
i have blackwater chest
mighty crown
just save it. you have 2/3 bis azerite pieces already so just get the helm from zaqul and you're set for sin. if you want your outlaw set to be better than gamble for that but honestly i'd just save till 8.3 in your shoes, traits are already good.
dark crag
54930 without benthics? Is outlaw really simming that high?
worldly iron
devout thicket
I am looking for a macro which would use healthstone if I have one and it's not on cooldown, and healing potion if I have already used a healthstone during the fight. Is it possible or is it necessary to just bind them separately?
rocky ruin
What is opening for MA? Its garrote, multi, rupture, vendetta, vanish, tb, envenom right? Cause in the ravenholdt link at section for rota there some cast are missing
Or did the rota change?
I mean opener
strong folio
jovial adder
@rocky ruin just look at some logs 😁
young portal
That is the MA opener
autumn slate
We're starting Za'Qul progress next week, im gonna be playing Assa and im going to do all the delirium realm things, what trinkets are good to use on this fight? I have Coral, Font, Inkpod, phial and punchcard to choose between
Also what essences should I be using for the fight? I suspect bote r3 major and minors being vop r3 & mold r3
young portal
Essences you want to be running are Blood Major, Lucid + vop minor. Coral and Font are a good combo for it still
autumn slate
Aight
For the personality splits, I think you want to use Font for the first one, but it wont be ready for the second afaik
is this true?
young portal
Yeah you won't have font up for both as it's a 2 min CD. Personally I let coral stack right up from pull until the first personality split and use that with vendetta. For the second I use font
autumn slate
Aight, ty 🙂
opaque kernel
does this discord have a section on Weakauras?
or does someone have a resource where rogue WA are discussed
ive tried the generic all in one packages available on wagio
flint jetty
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
flint jetty
But that's all I know
opaque kernel
but need to build something more focused on what i fail at
thanks
its a great start
flint jetty
I use a slightly edited afenars