#assassination | Ravenholdt | Page 3513

lament leaf Sep 17, 2019, 5:49 PM

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so, after reading all this, a good overall setup on traits is 3SS, 2 EB , 1 TTF to give a good mix of aoe and ST,

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for M+

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ofc

vernal flume Sep 17, 2019, 5:49 PM

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yea i normally just use dice+spyglass for fort coral+spyglass for tyr

desert vault Sep 17, 2019, 5:49 PM

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2/2/2 is most general purpose

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:50 PM

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I'm using coral for everything atm, mostly out of laziness and liking of the crit

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 5:50 PM

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for m+ I use 1 ss 3eb 2ttk

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:50 PM

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I wouldn't use more than 2 eb

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 5:50 PM

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but 3ss is also good

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:50 PM

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if even that

desert vault Sep 17, 2019, 5:51 PM

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this week seems ok for 3x EB? Teeming+Fort?

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 5:51 PM

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I dunno ive used both and dont see a major difference i just see taht it does alot of damage

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:51 PM

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3 EB could work this week

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3 EB is just not what you need this season

rough veldt Sep 17, 2019, 5:52 PM

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oh i still use Pocket-Sized Computation Device... when do i know i should replace that with any 430 trinket for +s?

desert vault Sep 17, 2019, 5:52 PM

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I don't know if I have a chest with EB/SS, think I just have EB/TTK though which I guess is fine

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3x EB, 2x SS, 1x TTK for now

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:52 PM

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You don't pull big enough to justify 3 eb, and not big enough to get full cp fok's into envenoms to justify ttk stacking high enough

vernal flume Sep 17, 2019, 5:52 PM

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3x EB is probably good but I think 2/2/2 just feels better overall for everything, and also lazy lol

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:53 PM

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I don't think 3 eb is really passable if you're pushing higher end keys

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 5:53 PM

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2ss 2eb 2 ttk?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:53 PM

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unless it's this week that might be the exception

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2/2/2 works everywhere, yeah

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It isn't as punished as stacking any trait is

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 5:53 PM

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why is 3 eb not passable?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:53 PM

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3 ss however, is clapped by bad tanks

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and not getting restealths

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 5:54 PM

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idk its really fun going full ape FoK spam

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:54 PM

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however, when you do, it blasts

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Esp in this season where you don't really pull that big

desert vault Sep 17, 2019, 5:54 PM

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3x SS is fun, yeah but no so much with chain pulls 🙂

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 5:54 PM

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i mean same go with 1 ss

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😛

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:54 PM

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No.

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You've committed two more traits

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That's a lot more punishing than only having 1

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 5:55 PM

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but, unless you giga pull you will have no issue restealthing, so thats less of an concern

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:55 PM

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Not up to you to get restealths though

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 5:55 PM

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typically tanks just pull fast for the sake of the timer

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:55 PM

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Someone pulls more, someone ninja pulls, something aggros something else

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 5:55 PM

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but you wont ran super high keys with randoms, so you would know beforehand

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:55 PM

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Most of the time, you're not the deciding factor to that.

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I do 20's with randoms

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GWcmeisterPeepoShrug

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 5:56 PM

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the beguiling adds will keep you in combat for awhile those are very annoying

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:56 PM

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Beguiling fucks with sin a bit, yeah

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 5:57 PM

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spam restealth and you cant because tank pulled another mob

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 5:57 PM

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so, wouldnt it be better to entirely drop ss then?

sterile ocean Sep 17, 2019, 5:57 PM

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@pseudo hamlet that dosent really help me with what you just told me but ok?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:57 PM

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A pro of having outlaws instead of sin is that reason

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 5:57 PM

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I wouoldnt that empowerment is good

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:57 PM

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Ofc you wouldn't

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 5:57 PM

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i mean you get very low benefit from it given you are so dependent on restealths

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:57 PM

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Empowerement, 3 CP garrotes

sterile ocean Sep 17, 2019, 5:57 PM

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anyone know if theres like a haste cap for assassin?

rough veldt Sep 17, 2019, 5:57 PM

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i still use Pocket-Sized Computation Device... when do i know i should replace that with any 430 trinket for +s? (i dont have coral trink yet)

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:57 PM

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no.

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And no, you get big benefits from it fuu

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Idk if you're baiting atm or what

sterile ocean Sep 17, 2019, 5:58 PM

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@rigid mango ty reason i was asking cause im 19% and i got 2 things with alot more haste thats a upgrade and still said 19%

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 5:58 PM

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so, if you get big beenfits from the initial one, stacking doesent sound bad to me

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 5:58 PM

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I have played with 1 ss and 3 ss with 2-3 eb and ttk and both have been successful for me

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which is beter Ido not know

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:58 PM

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Yes, what are you getting at fuu

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 5:58 PM

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I can not tell

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:59 PM

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I'm saying that taking 2 more is a lot more punishing granted your tank/team fucks up

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And I've been saying 3 SS rips

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I really don't know what your point is

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 5:59 PM

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oh, my initial question i cant relate is why 2 eb is fine and 3 is not

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 5:59 PM

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why is 3 not

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 5:59 PM

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^

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 5:59 PM

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Whats the reason for 3 not being as good

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 5:59 PM

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You don't do pulls big enough to warrant 3 eb over other traits

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Like SS, like bbi, like ttk

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 6:00 PM

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kings rest blob room

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:00 PM

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You don't pull that big anymore

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 6:00 PM

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tol dagor adds in the beginning if you pull those for percentage

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:00 PM

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Sure, but those are niche and few

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:00 PM

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you will increase your aoe, and therefore kill packs faster with eb

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 6:00 PM

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Freehold could work

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:00 PM

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Pepeg

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fuu

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:00 PM

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and 2 to 3 is not such a big jump

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:00 PM

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stop baiting

tropic ocean Sep 17, 2019, 6:01 PM

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@vestal wren its way too exaggerated in here as usually

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i use 3 eb 3ss and garrote is by far top dmg even with chainpulls

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:01 PM

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Cool dude.

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:01 PM

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if, so why not go with 1 eb to get a more noticable diffrence

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:01 PM

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Doesn't mean you lost a lot

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:02 PM

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i dont bait, just want to know the reason first hand from experienced m+ players

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:03 PM

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If you want exactly that, go to seli's stream

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linked right there and you know what it is

rough veldt Sep 17, 2019, 6:03 PM

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i think valid question is why not just 1 eb then and use one trait for something else

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:03 PM

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And ask the question why 3 eb isn't good.

tropic ocean Sep 17, 2019, 6:03 PM

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its not, 3eb 3ss and other 3 eb combos are regularly used by many sin rogues, seli isnt the solution to everything even though its praised here all the time

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the avg player doing 15 won't really feel a big difference between 2/2/2 or any other combination anyway

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:04 PM

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i dont know what traits seli runs, so i cant say

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hes not very active in chat recently

modest glen Sep 17, 2019, 6:04 PM

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whats a good mastery to sit at before your stat weighs say otherwise. im at 41% im even stacking mastery gems which i havent seen another rogue do lol

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:04 PM

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http://prntscr.com/p7efm5

Lightshot

Screenshot

Captured with Lightshot

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pikaOMG

tropic ocean Sep 17, 2019, 6:04 PM

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and especially if you take into consideration what keys he is doing compared to the keys ppl that ask are doing

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:04 PM

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oh, hes runing 3 ss, wired

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is it in one of the dungeons you mentione where that setup is good?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:05 PM

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Nah, I talked to him a couple of days ago and I understood what he thought about sin nowadays

scarlet sequoia Sep 17, 2019, 6:05 PM

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435 chest pepeLaugh

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:06 PM

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TTK isn't as good as 3 ss because you don't pull big enough to get full CP from one fok all the time

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:06 PM

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i mean i think azerite is always a limiting factor too

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:06 PM

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EB isn't as good because you don't pull big enough to justify stacking it

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 6:06 PM

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how many mobs =big enough for you

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:06 PM

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He's literally talking about it atm

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kekw

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So if you guys are interested, tune in, watch the last 2 min or smth

rough veldt Sep 17, 2019, 6:07 PM

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can u relink the stream or clip it

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:07 PM

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https://www.twitch.tv/incarnated

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:08 PM

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clip would be better tho, i think i missed the talk

tropic ocean Sep 17, 2019, 6:08 PM

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@strange python you want/need at least as much mobs that you get 4+cp from 1 fok

rough veldt Sep 17, 2019, 6:09 PM

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does he beat outlaw rogue always?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:09 PM

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Like I said, watch the vod and go back to about 3 or so min ago

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He's normally higher/on par with them

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To get the highest value of TTK, you want to be going env > fok > env > fok > env

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etc.

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You can't consistantly do so anymore

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:10 PM

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how many bleeds you run for prio damage?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:10 PM

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huh?

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:10 PM

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like if you start a bigger pack, how many bleeds do you apply before entering the fok-env loop

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:10 PM

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4 if you're above 11% haste, 5 if lower

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To go energy positive

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g g g rup > build > rup

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and then decide from there.

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:11 PM

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thats 5 ^^

rough veldt Sep 17, 2019, 6:11 PM

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soo WW monk better aoe than SIn rogue?

modest glen Sep 17, 2019, 6:11 PM

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well watching hist stream answered my question. my mastery is garbage. im at 41% and stacking 7 gems. ughhhh

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:11 PM

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Yeah, that's if you have less than 11% haste

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what I do

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41% isn'

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isn't* bad mastery

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He's jus stacking it very high for the sake of SS and the big envenoms

modest glen Sep 17, 2019, 6:12 PM

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my stat weighs wont change from mastery being top. im so freaking confused. i look like a dool stacking gems of it lol

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:12 PM

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Stat weights from what, dslice sim?

modest glen Sep 17, 2019, 6:13 PM

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i hope this is allowed

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📎 unknown.png

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:13 PM

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looks like a patchwork sim

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:14 PM

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Yeah, I mean mastery isn't the highest for ST so

cloud sandal Sep 17, 2019, 6:14 PM

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how big difference is benthic vs no benthic?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:14 PM

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It's probably the worst stat overall

cloud sandal Sep 17, 2019, 6:14 PM

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just curious?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:14 PM

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about 3-4k dps

modest glen Sep 17, 2019, 6:14 PM

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is nobody uses those sims anymore sorry i just came back after a hiatus

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:14 PM

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benthic is quite noticable diffrence

cloud sandal Sep 17, 2019, 6:14 PM

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i dont have any benthic pieces rn

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:14 PM

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You really should do.

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:14 PM

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diffrence between the 2 wrists is not to big tho just 0.3% or so

cloud sandal Sep 17, 2019, 6:15 PM

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rank 3 lucid dreams first or benthic?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:15 PM

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You can do both?

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:15 PM

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^

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:15 PM

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One doesn't limit the other

rough veldt Sep 17, 2019, 6:15 PM

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if we go back to ST/raids, is having 20% haste or anything above that still wayy too much?

cloud sandal Sep 17, 2019, 6:15 PM

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Doenst rank 3 lucid cost me 60 manapearls?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:15 PM

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Nope.

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Sure, that, but I mean you can farm near 100 pearls a day

rough veldt Sep 17, 2019, 6:15 PM

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whats a good base % for raid haste

cloud sandal Sep 17, 2019, 6:16 PM

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really? how lol

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:16 PM

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Kill the rares, do the dailies

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Do your daily lot of algans, etc

drifting cloud Sep 17, 2019, 6:16 PM

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you cant do 100 Zine lol

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:16 PM

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I've done it

drifting cloud Sep 17, 2019, 6:16 PM

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not on 1 chat

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:16 PM

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🤷

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Good rng pepeLaughters

drifting cloud Sep 17, 2019, 6:16 PM

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yeah maybe with emissaries and 1time quest rewards

cloud sandal Sep 17, 2019, 6:16 PM

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i only get 24 a day with just dailies

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no rare

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:16 PM

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Yeah well, there's enough rares to go around

cloud sandal Sep 17, 2019, 6:17 PM

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alright

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:17 PM

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Each one has a chance to drop 3 max(?)

cloud sandal Sep 17, 2019, 6:17 PM

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thanks

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:17 PM

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And there's a good 20 or so of them

cloud sandal Sep 17, 2019, 6:17 PM

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what piece to go for first?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:17 PM

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feet > wrists > hands > waist dps wise

rough veldt Sep 17, 2019, 6:24 PM

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so dungeon slice stat weight sims are also invalid?

cloud sandal Sep 17, 2019, 6:24 PM

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is it a dps waste if i mutilate on 4 CP?

drifting cloud Sep 17, 2019, 6:24 PM

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yes, a big one

cloud sandal Sep 17, 2019, 6:24 PM

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got it

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thx

lament leaf Sep 17, 2019, 6:31 PM

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kk i saw something interesting

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you get more value of fok envenom loop

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than fok rupture?

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:32 PM

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it comes down what you mean by value

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if it comes to pure priority damage you gain the most value using Mutilate and keep ~5 bleeds running
if you say, nahhh the target dont need to die asap but faster you can do the fok-env with 5 bleeds

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:34 PM

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If you want reasonable priority damage you do the latter, yeah.

lament leaf Sep 17, 2019, 6:34 PM

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but

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in trash mobs when you mostly want to do aoe

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:34 PM

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mut is actually quite noticable ahead on prio damage

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so again, if add need to die asap -> mut
if rest of pack is also relevant -> fok

lament leaf Sep 17, 2019, 6:35 PM

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so fok 5 cp envenom

stuck knoll Sep 17, 2019, 6:36 PM

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You’re looking at as a binary thing tho

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:36 PM

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4-5, yeah

stuck knoll Sep 17, 2019, 6:36 PM

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There’s no pack in the game where blasting specifically 1 mob down and doing no damage to the others is faster

cloud sandal Sep 17, 2019, 6:36 PM

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azshara waste is it good?

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i got it @ 435 with socket

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simming it now

stuck knoll Sep 17, 2019, 6:36 PM

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While doing a hybrid of aoe and prio is valuable

lament leaf Sep 17, 2019, 6:36 PM

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prolly, really new to rogue just 2 weeks playing and trying to figure out the rotation for m+

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:36 PM

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i mean it sounds wired, but if you have a lot of situations where you focus down a prio target that need to die asap you could even consider using DD instead of TTK

stuck knoll Sep 17, 2019, 6:36 PM

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Which I think is what people want from fok into env

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:37 PM

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given mut with dd gives you way more value then ttk
in a situation where you would use mut as a builder

cloud sandal Sep 17, 2019, 6:38 PM

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how good is the azshara waist?

lament leaf Sep 17, 2019, 6:38 PM

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so let me see if i get it...

cloud sandal Sep 17, 2019, 6:38 PM

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sounds really good imo

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:38 PM

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its an interessting thought, but i think i havent seen anyone drop fok from the rotation even if one target needs to die asap

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:38 PM

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You nearly never want to use mut tho

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🤔

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When people refer to prio we're not just giving everything up in the name of prio

lament leaf Sep 17, 2019, 6:39 PM

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in trash, you just garrote, fok , rupture, and the 2 poisons, then fok env

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that is what you guys mean?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:39 PM

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If that was the case we'd run raid-like setups

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:39 PM

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an interessting discussion given there might be a lost opotunity

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:40 PM

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I don't really see the reason for it, though

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You're not giving everything up for prio

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Because other things give much more overall value

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Like foking instead of muting there

stuck knoll Sep 17, 2019, 6:40 PM

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There’s no pack in the game where blasting specifically 1 mob down and doing no damage to the others is faster

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:40 PM

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f.ex. if you push a emisary down that would else get another cast through

stuck knoll Sep 17, 2019, 6:41 PM

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M+ isn’t about value or highest prio or highest damage

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It’s about what’s fastest

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:41 PM

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but that contradicts with the whole ttk discussion that we had so often

stuck knoll Sep 17, 2019, 6:41 PM

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Would you run dd just to help for emissaries

lone junco Sep 17, 2019, 6:42 PM

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ttk doesnt require 6x per pull every time to buff Env

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:42 PM

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I mean nearly every emmisary dies before next cast by doing standard prio rotationm

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99% of the time, chaging my rotation wont change the amount of casts go off

lone junco Sep 17, 2019, 6:43 PM

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its nice to do high cleave without cds.

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 6:43 PM

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and a good amount of damage for single target

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:44 PM

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ye i think pure st traits seem less appealing in m+

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 6:44 PM

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no dont do pure ss just have good single target and good aoe

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or try to

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my single target with my setup for m+ does great aoe and good single

lone junco Sep 17, 2019, 6:45 PM

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I enjoyed SS, but holy shit when they didnt let me re-stealth, I wanted to murder.

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 6:45 PM

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haha

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yeh that sucks

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:45 PM

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PES_Stab

lone junco Sep 17, 2019, 6:45 PM

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now, you just FOKFOKFOKFOKFOKFOKFOKFOKFOKFOKFOKFOKFOKF.

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 6:45 PM

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YUP

deft nymph Sep 17, 2019, 6:46 PM

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more nelf privilege 😄

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 6:46 PM

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when do you drop finisher entirely? i dont remember the breakpoint mentioned

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:47 PM

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5t+ normally

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with no prio target

brittle birch Sep 17, 2019, 6:48 PM

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on higher than 5t you just spam fok? whoa

lone junco Sep 17, 2019, 6:49 PM

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I never got my ideal kit, so dont listen to me.

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rogue got left behind at uldir.

brittle birch Sep 17, 2019, 6:50 PM

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same here lol

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:50 PM

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You just mongo fok

lone junco Sep 17, 2019, 6:50 PM

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have 3 fok 2scent 1ss. or 1 fok 3ttk 1 ss

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:50 PM

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Ignore all cp apart from reapplying bleeds

lone junco Sep 17, 2019, 6:50 PM

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shit was weird.

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:50 PM

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2n scent peepoRun

lone junco Sep 17, 2019, 6:50 PM

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yeah.

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I wanted scent to be good, but dammit to hell if it isnt.

brittle birch Sep 17, 2019, 6:50 PM

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is that breakpoint only with a certain number of echoing blades traits? or is it independent of traits

lone junco Sep 17, 2019, 6:51 PM

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eb matters for fokking

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and crit.

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 6:51 PM

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I like fokking

brittle birch Sep 17, 2019, 6:51 PM

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so without EB the breakpoint is different? or

desert vault Sep 17, 2019, 6:51 PM

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What chests have EB/SS? Can't remember

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 6:52 PM

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Blighted tribe

desert vault Sep 17, 2019, 6:52 PM

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Oh yeah, I can do 450s of 3x SS, 2x EB, 1x TTK which I guess isn't too bad

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wish blackwater had something better than OP for m+, all of the 3rd rings on my m+ are kind of trash actually

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but I guess the extra haste isn't bad for bosses even on Fort weeks

deft nymph Sep 17, 2019, 6:53 PM

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imagine wishing for something besides OP in that ring

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 6:53 PM

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thats not bad at all

desert vault Sep 17, 2019, 6:54 PM

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I know, just for that little extra in m+, plus I'm already at a base of 11% haste with my current m+ set

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like 38 crit, 11 haste and some crappy amount of mastery

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 6:55 PM

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ahh gotcha, yeh my haste is at 22ish% last i checked with my crit at 55% and my vers 7 crit 25%

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i mean mastery 55

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crit 25

desert vault Sep 17, 2019, 6:56 PM

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I guess I'll try some dice/spyglass this week, see how that goes

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 6:56 PM

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id like to get a spy

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i run dice and mech trink

desert vault Sep 17, 2019, 6:56 PM

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I need a better dice/glass ... 430 dice and 435 spy, I just want something with a socket. I have had awful luck with sockets on my m+ gear

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don't know if I have a single piece with a socket ... but tons of 445/455s, its been weird

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my ilvl in m+ in through the roof when it doesn't really matter, go figure

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When you are running 3x SS on packs of like 5-6 mobs, is it worth spreading the extra SS around because of the 3x? Or just wasting casts of EB at that point?

shy dust Sep 17, 2019, 7:03 PM

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You would always open with 3 empowered garrotes

tropic ocean Sep 17, 2019, 7:04 PM

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99% of the time y

desert vault Sep 17, 2019, 7:05 PM

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I do, I was just saying after the empowered, is it worth dotting the rest of the mobs with a garrote if running 3x SS or just worry about keeping 3x SS up and call it a day

tropic ocean Sep 17, 2019, 7:05 PM

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no

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3 empowered garrote

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into rupture

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fok rupture to sustain energy

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then fok/env

formal willow Sep 17, 2019, 8:08 PM

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am i correct that there is not a single good ST azerite helmet from dungeons?

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or am i missing something

woeful hare Sep 17, 2019, 8:09 PM

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The slithering loa one

arctic walrus Sep 17, 2019, 8:10 PM

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slithering loa is your best option out of m+, but it is not the best

formal willow Sep 17, 2019, 8:11 PM

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ok thanks. yes its not optimal but close

woeful hare Sep 17, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

yeah, best one is Zaqul

strange python Sep 17, 2019, 8:16 PM

#

!essence

prisma monolithBOT Sep 17, 2019, 8:16 PM

#

Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 8:19 PM

#

I would rly like to re-visit the 5+ target condition discussion for fok spam.
So if i understand it right you still maintain the 5 bleeds for energy i assume.
Hence 3 EB are not the go-to anymore is that also true for 2 EB, and whats about 1 EB?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:30 PM

#

afaik it's irrelevant of EB

upper canyon Sep 17, 2019, 8:30 PM

#

what do you replace the 3rd EB with?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:30 PM

#

3 SS is the base, then you stick on eb bbi ttk as you want

#

I asked the same question ages ago to seli fuu, and iirc it was at 5t+ without a prio target

upper canyon Sep 17, 2019, 8:31 PM

#

ok, im too poor to keep reforging so I've just been rolling 1 SS 1 EB 2 TTK 1 MA ;_;

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:31 PM

#

MA?

upper canyon Sep 17, 2019, 8:31 PM

#

master assassin

#

dunno whats its called

#

er

#

fuck

#

vendetta

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:31 PM

#

That's a talent

#

Nothing personal?

upper canyon Sep 17, 2019, 8:31 PM

#

yea

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:31 PM

#

I hope you don't run MA lol

upper canyon Sep 17, 2019, 8:31 PM

#

yeah no i dont

#

All the face icons blend together, for sub i just go down the list picking every face I see : )

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:32 PM

#

Still only 5 traits anyways kekchamp

upper canyon Sep 17, 2019, 8:32 PM

#

thats how I sim, the max amount of face icons I can have in my build

#

loyal to the end i htink is my last one

#

ive only been playing BFA for like 3 resets so I barely have any azerite still

#

ok much better, forgot to change my nickname

#

also for orgozoa, if my raid leader just wants me to poomp boss damage, should I just pretend im hitting a training dummy or would keeping 1/2 ruptures up on the adds for energy regen be worth

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 8:34 PM

#

so, the 5+ dont change with traits?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:34 PM

#

afaik no

upper canyon Sep 17, 2019, 8:34 PM

#

and just FoK whenever I need to keep poisons up

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 8:34 PM

#

but it requires EB?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:35 PM

#

unsure if it does or doesn't

#

I know it works with EB though

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 8:35 PM

#

wouldnt be EB the base for such a gameplay?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:35 PM

#

huh?

arctic walrus Sep 17, 2019, 8:36 PM

#

this situation applies to M+ so you have to imply that yes you would have at least an eb

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:36 PM

#

I mean, seli was talking running no eb so

#

I wouldn't put it entirely out of question

#

even though I don't entirely agree with it

arctic walrus Sep 17, 2019, 8:37 PM

#

eb depending on trait count can do more than fok damage in a pack can't it

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 8:37 PM

#

i asked mystler if he remembers such a breakpoint

#

and he refered me to a old discussion in #tc-research from Murmur

#

where the conclusion was that 6+ targets with 3 eb and 8+ targets with 2 eb are the breakpoints

#

however he did not ran that sim with PB what should have some impact and also no essences
(2nd one obviousely bc. there where no essences)

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:39 PM

#

I mean these have been the general metrics that have been used since uhh

#

earlier in s2

#

Mainly from I was told in here and from seli

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 8:40 PM

#

so 5 would be slightly below that reseach so in a realm of possibilities

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:40 PM

#

It might also matter what gear those researches were using

#

But yeah, they've been used for a long while

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 8:41 PM

#

but hence i found the above to be relevant i re-run the sim.
basically limiting the bleed targets to 5, dissabled Env and added fok as a filler also on higher cp

#

so to sum it up:
1 EB - 13+ targets to be a win
2 EB - 9 +targets for a win
3 EB - 8+ targets to be a win
was what i got in the sims

arctic walrus Sep 17, 2019, 8:42 PM

#

what's the metric comparing?

#

win vs what

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:42 PM

#

Makes eb sound even worse to me

#

Regular rotation vs mongo fok and keeping bleeds up

#

I presume

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 8:43 PM

#

3 EB: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kQ36MHyx7YkUWzSLTxGAvE/simc
2 EB: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/982MWxstLiQ8Sa6oc1U7Ed/simc
1 EB: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ncKDLMdRSb5TUWtVDNHWSg/simc

#

1 eb is with 12 targets hence that was the value it became kinda neutral and i didnt want to re run it again

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:44 PM

#

on average how many CP does each fok gain on the regular one

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 8:44 PM

#

on how many targets?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:44 PM

#

Does it always gain full CP to spend? or is it 2-3 fok's away

shy dust Sep 17, 2019, 8:47 PM

#

Could that be affected by how low crit chance you have

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 8:47 PM

#

the diffrence is quite noticable in fok executions:
122.6 to 183.7

shy dust Sep 17, 2019, 8:47 PM

#

Since it only has 25%

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:47 PM

#

oof

#

25% is low in todays standard

#

up that to 40% if you want realistic

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 8:47 PM

#

its the dungeon slice profile

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:47 PM

#

Yucko

#

I don't think that's close to being accurate with what you'd be running in m+, in that case

shy dust Sep 17, 2019, 8:48 PM

#

Yeah it has like 21% haste

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:48 PM

#

monkaW

#

YIkes

#

Hell no, what the fuck is this

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 8:48 PM

#

then post me a profile you think will alter the outcome

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:48 PM

#

I don't know how much it'll alter ir

#

it*

#

just saying that isn't realistic

shy dust Sep 17, 2019, 8:49 PM

#

Same was just wondering how much of an effect it would have since EB gains value with crit

tropic ocean Sep 17, 2019, 8:49 PM

#

just add 40%+crit

#

35%+mastery

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:49 PM

#

15% is a big jump from that one to what's realistic

tropic ocean Sep 17, 2019, 8:49 PM

#

and <10% haste

#

around that is what everyone is/should be running

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:50 PM

#

If you put in uhh, 7% ish haste, 40% crit and mastery, 3% vers

#

That's really standard

#

and I have similar to those numbers with lackluster gear

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 8:50 PM

#

how much is that stat wise

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:51 PM

#

2.1k crit, 500 haste, 270 vers, 1.1k mastery

#

+- that

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 8:53 PM

#

lets see

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:53 PM

#

I'm unsure about how much 15% will alter the value of EB

#

but should be something

#

Also, dunno what vers the dslice is running either

arctic walrus Sep 17, 2019, 8:54 PM

#

How much is fok spam sacrificing in terms of instant poison application

#

is that a factor at all

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 8:54 PM

#

i mean i can see it beeing higher

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:54 PM

#

Shouldn't really be sacrificing anything much

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 8:54 PM

#

wounder how much it can lower the target count tho

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 8:55 PM

#

I think 3 EB might hit 5t

#

unsure about the others, though

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 8:56 PM

#

nope but it lowered it

#

let me check the other 2 eb configuarations and post result then

#

Stat changes effect:
1 EB - 13+ targets to be a win -> 11+
2 EB - 9 +targets for a win -> 7+
3 EB - 8+ targets to be a win -> 6+

#

so kinda went down quite linear 2 targets

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:12 PM

#

would be interesting to see if and how these thresholds change based on crit%

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:13 PM

#

That's 40%

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:13 PM

#

and with BotE

#

ah kk

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:13 PM

#

He did with 25% and those were the earliuer

#

i.e 2 higher on each target number, pretty much

#

With bote though it'll go even lower, probably

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:13 PM

#

ah yeah, just read fully

#

definitely good to have some actual math behind it as well

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:14 PM

#

This really limits the amount you mongo fok huh

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:14 PM

#

in the current season? yeah

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:14 PM

#

I won't be mongo foking anything it feels like anymore

#

Aye, ofc now

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:15 PM

#

fok-spam is really only worth when bote is up

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:15 PM

#

I already felt it being cut when doing higher end keys but yikes

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:15 PM

#

gotta love the bote > 11x fok

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:15 PM

#

Is the EB fan also affected by bote crit?

#

The fan that originates from EB

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:16 PM

#

the echo?

#

has 100% crit anyway

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:16 PM

#

Aye

#

yeah but damage wise

#

The intial crit damage increase

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:16 PM

#

the crit-dmg increase during the first 5seconds applies yes

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:16 PM

#

Since trait to ess shit is jank

#

Hm, interesting

#

Also why 11 fok's

#

aPES_Think

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 9:17 PM

#

blood could lower it quite a bit ye

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:17 PM

#

cause by the time you could use the 12th

#

the debuff ran out?

#

you bote, 12sec duration starts, 1sec gcd from bote

#

means 11sec left

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:18 PM

#

Isn't it only 10 sec from bote?

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:18 PM

#

is it?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:18 PM

#

Yeah

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 9:18 PM

#

moment i just throw in bote, lets see

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:18 PM

#

i remembered it being 12sec

#

w/e

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:18 PM

#

12 yard

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:18 PM

#

you get my point 😄

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:18 PM

#

yaya I do

#

So just 9 fok instead

#

Question is just what number you just fok spam at

#

with 65% crit

#

ish

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 9:19 PM

#

bote seems not significant enough in impact to lower the target limit

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:20 PM

#

An added 25% doesn't lower targets?

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:20 PM

#

that seems... odd

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:20 PM

#

huh

#

25% seems like a lot, seeing as how 15% lowered it twice,

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:20 PM

#

when 15% by changing profile has such a huge impact

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:20 PM

#

Although crit ofc does have a DR

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 9:20 PM

#

well you have the 15% forthe entire fight

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:20 PM

#

oh yeah

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:20 PM

#

I mean now we're just talking the window

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:20 PM

#

its just about the bote window itself, so 10sec essentially

#

or 9sec

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:21 PM

#

this is all not taking into account spyglass/bote/weap procs ofc

#

which kinda blows

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 9:21 PM

#

so kinda:
1 EB - 13+ targets to be a win
2 EB - 9 +targets for a win
3 EB - 8+ targets to be a win
starting with 25% crit
with every 7.5% crit additional assumingly lowering the target count by 1

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:22 PM

#

Maybe at this low % it works near linearly, but I'd assume sooner or later there's DR on the amount of % needed per 1 target reduction

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 9:22 PM

#

probably ye

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:22 PM

#

well it DRs once you get 5echo every fok

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 9:22 PM

#

would need to make more sims, its just a assumption based on 2 points

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:22 PM

#

at which point adding targets or crit is kind of softcapping the efficiency of EB

#

the ideal mobcount is when every fok generates 5echoes

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:23 PM

#

Assuming 40% crit, that's gotta be what, 12 targets or something?

#

12.5?

#

Napkin math in head at this point

vestal wren Sep 17, 2019, 9:23 PM

#

i mean 13 targets was with 1 eb trait

#

with 40% it went down to 11

#

tho cp gain is ignored ?

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:24 PM

#

@rigid mango was just talking about ideal situation, i.e. if you get too many mobs you still scale better, but not as strongly

#

i.e. the jump in overall dps as assa with 3echo going from, say, 8 to 9 targets, is going to be bigger than going from 48 to 49 targets

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:24 PM

#

Aye I'm just doing napkin math at this point

#

Yeah, ofc

#

I'm just happy this means I fok less play spec more

#

KEKW

marble hemlock Sep 17, 2019, 9:26 PM

#

yeah, the degenerate fok spam that we had in s2 is pretty much gone outside of bote

#

and even then its usually better to blast one prio target with envenoms with tb/vendetta up

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:26 PM

#

That feels great

grave trail Sep 17, 2019, 9:26 PM

#

what weapon enchant u guys use? force multiplier is simming higher but i feel like deadly is better

#

for main hand that is

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:26 PM

#

In a lot of scenarios I find myself blasting emmisaries with CD's anyways

shy dust Sep 17, 2019, 9:26 PM

#

Use what sims higher

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:26 PM

#

And using blood for prio and not mongo

grave trail Sep 17, 2019, 9:27 PM

#

ok

lusty narwhal Sep 17, 2019, 9:27 PM

#

The forntightly gamble begins...

#

Tempted to save at this point but azshara prog so yolo

woeful hare Sep 17, 2019, 9:28 PM

#

GL!

lusty narwhal Sep 17, 2019, 9:28 PM

#

No gorak again

#

reee...

woeful hare Sep 17, 2019, 9:28 PM

#

OOF

lusty narwhal Sep 17, 2019, 9:28 PM

#

5 shoulders so far

woeful hare Sep 17, 2019, 9:28 PM

#

Should just have saved for that 200k

lusty narwhal Sep 17, 2019, 9:29 PM

#

by the time i get to 200k azshara will be dead

#

lol

woeful hare Sep 17, 2019, 9:29 PM

#

hahaha yeah, gambling for better gear is so fun tho

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:29 PM

#

Imagine caring about progress and not sim dps

#

kekw

lusty narwhal Sep 17, 2019, 9:29 PM

#

wadu

woeful hare Sep 17, 2019, 9:29 PM

#

hahahah

shy dust Sep 17, 2019, 9:30 PM

#

Make progress in your sim dps

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:30 PM

#

WeSmart

arctic walrus Sep 17, 2019, 9:31 PM

#

Azshara not dead kekw

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:32 PM

#

AngryWoof

lusty narwhal Sep 17, 2019, 9:32 PM

#

omegalul

woeful hare Sep 17, 2019, 9:32 PM

#

peepono

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:33 PM

#

imagine being the worst rogue in CC, vel

arctic walrus Sep 17, 2019, 9:33 PM

#

Don't need to imagine peepoguns

long anchor Sep 17, 2019, 9:49 PM

#

So like... if people are spamming FoK less how about deeper stratagem.

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:49 PM

#

Huh?

#

It's not about fok spamming

#

It's about it playing really bad on trash, not always letting you get 3rd garrote in with SS

#

when you're supposed to stack SS

#

It's bad, just bad.

long anchor Sep 17, 2019, 9:50 PM

#

I’ve played it in a handful of keys and have not struggled to get all three garrotes

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:50 PM

#

Then you've been lucky with 3 DP applications

#

It increases the amount of bleeds needed to go energy positive

#

You don't stack TTK's like you did in s2

#

There's just no real reason to take it

long anchor Sep 17, 2019, 9:52 PM

#

Without DP even applied you get all three garrotes at 8.4% haste. You don’t even have to stack TTK to make deeper better than vigor

fleet whale Sep 17, 2019, 9:53 PM

#

Just got C&S rank 3, now i don't have to do pvp anymore unless if I really want to!

shy dust Sep 17, 2019, 9:54 PM

#

So Zine now its preferred to run 3 SS 2 EB 1 TTK?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 9:55 PM

#

unsure about 2 EB

#

3 SS and the 1 ttk I like

#

I think you can drop another EB and go a 2nd ttk or BBI

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 10:08 PM

#

gorak tuls in m+ DansGame

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 10:08 PM

#

BBI HYPERS

iron heath Sep 17, 2019, 10:26 PM

#

hey

#

whats the traits for m plus 12

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 10:26 PM

#

3 ss 2 eb 1 ttk

iron heath Sep 17, 2019, 10:27 PM

#

ty

urban shell Sep 17, 2019, 10:36 PM

#

At what point/azerite set does Master Assassin pull ahead of subterfuge? Just looking at parses, it seems all of the top 100 are running MA.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5fCuGXoungKcgLsMCZ93n8

Raidbots

Top Gear - Lab - 48,165 DPS - Raidbots

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 10:36 PM

#

If you don't have any shrouded suffocation

#

Which you do, so when that goes away, MA's gonna be better

#

also I hope you're not using WV in actual gameplay

urban shell Sep 17, 2019, 10:37 PM

#

Makes perfect sense. Thanks

iron heath Sep 17, 2019, 10:38 PM

#

hey what talents for that zine?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 10:38 PM

#

huh?

iron heath Sep 17, 2019, 10:39 PM

#

2212322?

#

for 12 m plus

urban shell Sep 17, 2019, 10:40 PM

#

I have just for sivarra since the raid stays stacked. CoF instead?

frank fjord Sep 17, 2019, 10:42 PM

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rWhCHGhiV2tT6pj7Sxd49c

Raidbots

Top Gear - Valisian - 50,642 DPS - Raidbots

#

Anyone see anything wrong with this sim?

#

I feel like it should be higher

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 10:43 PM

#

http://prntscr.com/p7hor2 @iron heath swap cheat death for elusiveness for high kr/temple keys when tyr, rest same every key

Lightshot

Screenshot

Captured with Lightshot

#

@urban shell iris

iron heath Sep 17, 2019, 10:44 PM

#

that iris tho

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 10:44 PM

#

huh?

iron heath Sep 17, 2019, 10:44 PM

#

r4

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 10:44 PM

#

@frank fjord You lack font and BiS azerite

#

That'll increase it a bit

iron heath Sep 17, 2019, 10:44 PM

#

whats bis az?

#

for st ep

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 10:45 PM

#

For ST? Zaq helm - goraks - blackwater/cepha

#

Blackwater if you have enough loyals around you

iron heath Sep 17, 2019, 10:45 PM

#

what do i need to run for a 450 gorak?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 10:45 PM

#

You need residuum

#

and rng the vendor for pieces

sharp wigeon Sep 17, 2019, 10:46 PM

#

What are the best enchants for assassination rogue?

#

weapon enchants

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 10:46 PM

#

The ones that sim the best

iron heath Sep 17, 2019, 10:47 PM

#

goraks wont drop in mplus?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 10:47 PM

#

Nope

#

none of the azerite does

iron heath Sep 17, 2019, 10:47 PM

#

oh ffs thats right

#

ty

reef frigate Sep 17, 2019, 10:58 PM

#

!wa

prisma monolithBOT Sep 17, 2019, 10:58 PM

#

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

bleak spoke Sep 17, 2019, 10:59 PM

#

No zaqul helmet for me 😦

#

Not recreating anymore FeelsBadMan

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 10:59 PM

#

not recreating

#

ionwut

#

You ok lettuce?

bleak spoke Sep 17, 2019, 11:00 PM

#

Reclearing

#

Nice autocorrect phone guy

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:00 PM

#

Hope you recovered from that stroke

bleak spoke Sep 17, 2019, 11:01 PM

#

I’m using a 415 divers in my offhand this stroke hasn’t stopped since week 1 man

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:01 PM

#

Imagine playing outlaw

#

WEIRD

bleak spoke Sep 17, 2019, 11:01 PM

#

Man like

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:01 PM

#

Just slam som fools w 3 ss

#

wooo

#

I'ma rng helm tomorrow and get thrilled at garbage

bleak spoke Sep 17, 2019, 11:02 PM

#

Imagine trusting other people to do outlaw jobs

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:02 PM

#

I only trust ronkles and dj

#

left ronkles to play with dj

bleak spoke Sep 17, 2019, 11:03 PM

#

Zoinks scoops

#

Scoobs

#

Goddamn gonna throw this phone out

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:03 PM

#

kekw

#

Ima hit 3k this season just to prove a point

bleak spoke Sep 17, 2019, 11:03 PM

#

what would that point be

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:04 PM

#

That I'm still a nobody

#

KEKW

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:04 PM

#

3k not playing outlaw pog

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:04 PM

#

I'm 2/3rds there

#

Can't be too hard

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:04 PM

#

imagine having a team to run m+ with

bleak spoke Sep 17, 2019, 11:04 PM

#

hey do you know how to change my details nickname to more than 12 characters

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:04 PM

#

that doesnt flame assa

#

pepehands

bleak spoke Sep 17, 2019, 11:04 PM

#

i keep seeing it in videos and stuff

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:04 PM

#

No clue

#

I don't have a team

#

kekw

#

I just blast idjuts

random comet Sep 17, 2019, 11:05 PM

#

no more FoK changes in the 8.2.5 notes. sad

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:05 PM

#

Huh?

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:06 PM

#

so you're planning to pug it out to 3k? monkaW

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:06 PM

#

eh, more or less

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:07 PM

#

are 8.2.5 notes out already?

bleak spoke Sep 17, 2019, 11:07 PM

#

i mean the working definition of "pugging" high keys is like

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:07 PM

#

you don't really need to have a set in stone team to do well as long as you play with similar people semi frequently

bleak spoke Sep 17, 2019, 11:07 PM

#

just filling from your friendslist

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:08 PM

#

New guild I'm joining has some blasters

#

Some people chilling at near 3k atm

#

either way, nolonger sin and I'm not a hypocrite so no bueno conversation in this channel

royal lantern Sep 17, 2019, 11:09 PM

#

:C

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:09 PM

#

the guy who saltily links ppl to the correct channels goes off topic pepefull

royal lantern Sep 17, 2019, 11:09 PM

#

first you go horde and then you dont play sin

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:10 PM

#

ANGERYBoi

#

Wdym I don't play sin

#

I only play sin

#

ionwut

royal lantern Sep 17, 2019, 11:10 PM

#

block zine

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:10 PM

#

I am confused tryan

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:11 PM

#

i think zine meant the convo wasnt sin related anymore

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:12 PM

#

Bingo.

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:19 PM

#

So I hope this is the right place to ask this, but damn I need some help from an experienced rogue. I'm pulling about 7k dps less than my sim is saying i should be doing on a patchwerk style fight and I'm absolutely stumped.

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:20 PM

#

Link a log and I'll take a look

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:20 PM

#

I've read the stickies, simmed, etc

#

So i haven't pve'd since wrath. by log, you mean world of logs? or is there a way to import details data?

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:21 PM

#

worldoflogs became more or less defunct many years ago

#

warcraftlogs is the replacement

#

but it's basically the asme thing

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:21 PM

#

cool, ill check it out.

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:21 PM

#

and no you can't import details data it uses combat log and an eternal program to process the information

#

if you've pugged maybe someone has logged a raid with you in it you'd just need to say your name/realm

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:22 PM

#

oh thats great, i was just in a pug that posted a log supposedly.

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:23 PM

#

What's your name and server?

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:24 PM

#

Bruhßruh - Illidan

#

i see my profile but no logs

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:25 PM

#

I can see one heroic log

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:25 PM

#

the normal logs are from today right

#

heroic is like over a month old

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:25 PM

#

Yeah the one from today isnt there

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:25 PM

#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/V6AZzhWNw8JQgH9Y

#

if there's something more recent than that it's either private of the person hasn't uploaded it yet

topaz blaze Sep 17, 2019, 11:26 PM

#

Question. On my rogue i am finding i have a lot of down time trying to regen my energy so i feel like i am missing out on heaps of dps i know haste increases my energy regen but all the gear i am simming is saying the crit mastery stuff is better for me. So should i just stick with what the sims say or stack more haste or something else? P.s i am very new to rogue 😂

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:26 PM

#

yes thats the one

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:26 PM

#

Sim

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:26 PM

#

you will have downtime as this spec

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:26 PM

#

I think you've misunderstood how sin works

#

Pooling is sorta a part of the spec

#

It's lower apm, you end up having windows where you do nothing and wait to press buttons rapidly in windows

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:27 PM

#

ive noticed the downtime feels a lot less once you get 2nd minor, either that or im playing the spec wrong

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:27 PM

#

Like per say, pre TB window

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:27 PM

#

hmmm

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:27 PM

#

Downtime isn't that high, but there's enough to throw someone off sin

topaz blaze Sep 17, 2019, 11:27 PM

#

Sorry this is the first dps I've played

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:27 PM

#

It isn't one of the specs where you need to click a button each GCD

topaz blaze Sep 17, 2019, 11:28 PM

#

Oh okay well i am playing it wrong haha 😂

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:28 PM

#

There's a lot of windows for minmaxing

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:28 PM

#

Thats probably my problem

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:28 PM

#

You'll do fine if you just click as hard as you can each GCD, though

#

Aslong as your TB windows are clean

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:29 PM

#

im constantly energy starved feeling i need to hit a button any time energy allows

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:29 PM

#

Minmaxing minor windodws don't matter

#

Yeah, you really don't

#

Aslong as you're not overcapping energy and have full bleeds up, you're not losing any dmage

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:29 PM

#

general baseline stuff from looking at ashvane naked you're playing master poisoner for some reason which is never correct, your opener is incorrect, you didn't garrote 2x on your vanish @2mins, you delayed your vend till 160sec for some reason which means you didn't get use out of the end of it

topaz blaze Sep 17, 2019, 11:29 PM

#

So do i just maintain my dots, make sure i never hit max energy and than get as much into TB window and vanish window aswell as vendetta?

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:29 PM

#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/V6AZzhWNw8JQgH9Y#fight=42&type=damage-done&source=387

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:29 PM

#

You can let your energy pool from 0 to 99% and aslong as you hit a button before that full energy, you've not lost any potential damage

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:30 PM

#

you have massive holes where your rupture is just not on the boss somehow

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:30 PM

#

those holes are likely energy starved areas where im not pooling energy

topaz blaze Sep 17, 2019, 11:30 PM

#

Okie dokie thanks Zine

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:30 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

you just didn't cast toxic blade for like a minute somehow

#

rupture should be up 100% of the time

#

that's what gives you energy

#

the basics of the spec are very simple: learn the opener for the gear you have, learn pandemic timers for your two bleeds and make sure they're up 100% of the time, and press tb on cd

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:31 PM

#

so i do have a question about TB, that pin about on cd, that means on cd

#

regardless

#

regardless of energy and/or cp

#

right?

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:32 PM

#

just press it when it's up yes

#

you had 5 tb casts in a 3min fight

topaz blaze Sep 17, 2019, 11:32 PM

#

Actually what is the pandemic timers for the bleeds and does envenom have one or do i just use envenom to keep elaborate planning rolling?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

Pandemic is 7.2 on rupture, 5.4 on garrote

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

the envenom buff does pandemic but isn't something worth caring about

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

if i could point to one big problem for me its using TB more efficiently

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

don't worry about using is efficiently till you know you're using it

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

You just try to snipe EP and Env buffs as late as you can

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

using is badly is better than not using it

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

but it's minmaxing

topaz blaze Sep 17, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

So as long as i refresh them with less than 7.2 and 5.4 seconds i am good?

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

like i said once you have a baseline of 100% bleed uptimes, max tb casts during a fight you can get

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:34 PM

#

Yeah

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:34 PM

#

you can look into how to maximize the damage of those windows

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:34 PM

#

Aslong as you reapply under that timer

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:34 PM

#

right on

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:34 PM

#

You're fine

topaz blaze Sep 17, 2019, 11:34 PM

#

Awesome

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:34 PM

#

6seconds for a 4cp rupture is probably good to know too

topaz blaze Sep 17, 2019, 11:35 PM

#

What should i be casting in my TB vanish windows?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:35 PM

#

You should be aligning vanish to vend

#

And tb to both

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:35 PM

#

is that 6 seconds on rupture for using 4cp or clipping a 4cp

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:35 PM

#

using a new one

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:35 PM

#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/k3RAXrL2DMzBw86W#fight=2&type=casts&source=6&view=timeline anything rlse i couldve done on this fight

topaz blaze Sep 17, 2019, 11:36 PM

#

So i should be using vendetta tb and vanish together?

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:36 PM

#

Except get frozen after pressing TB like a fuckin Pepega

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:36 PM

#

those are some nagging questions ive had for a while. thank you so much guys

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:36 PM

#

You should, when vanish and vend are ap

#

up*

#

But you should ofc be spamming tb in the meanwhile

ashen ermine Sep 17, 2019, 11:36 PM

#

Finally got a dagger upgrade for oh Blesssss

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:36 PM

#

It should go something along the lines of how the opener goes

topaz blaze Sep 17, 2019, 11:37 PM

#

Do i pop vendetta before or after i apply garrote and rupture?

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:37 PM

#

Vend
TB
Vanish
Env
Mut to4+
Env
Mut to 4+
Env

#

and so on

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:37 PM

#

-> says mutilate to 4

#

-> mutilates to 2

#

-> just mutilate to 4 LOOOOL

rigid mango Sep 17, 2019, 11:37 PM

#

You know you can press the button again dumbo

#

Pepeg

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:37 PM

#

pepehands

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:38 PM

#

you had garrote fall once for like a decent length of time, rupture fell twice, you could delay vend to your guardian knowing it's a <4min fight as long as you know your guild won't blast it in like 3:20

#

looks like you're taking your soaking pool pretty far too on your 32sec tb you just stopped hitting the boss for like 12 seconds

#

and it wasn't an overwhelming barrage cast

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:39 PM

#

yeah that... uum

#

Wasnt a pool

#

pepehands

#

i got frozen

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:40 PM

#

hmm..

#

big tip: dont get stunned for 8seconds

#

or just race change human like me

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:40 PM

#

so you ALWAYS refresh garrote at 5.4 and rup at 7.2?

topaz blaze Sep 17, 2019, 11:41 PM

#

Yes

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:41 PM

#

below those values, but yeah

#

the first convenient time below 5.4 for garrote, below 6 for a 4cp rupture, and below 7.2 for a 5cp rupture

#

it doesn't have to be the first global after that as long as you understand that they need to be refreshed between those timers and 0

#

and the longer you delay the shorter that bleed will be and require more maintenance

#

for example if you know vend is coming up soon it's quite nice to ensure you get a fully pandemiced rupture up just beforehand if you can

potent escarp Sep 17, 2019, 11:42 PM

#

those tips alone helped immensely on the dummy

#

thanks a ton

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:42 PM

#

and do you normally use font off cd also

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:43 PM

#

font just goes with vend basically, so whenever you're doing that, which is probably on cd

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:43 PM

#

ive seen some ppl use font with a tb window but before vendetta to save vend for coral

#

which seems pretty Pepega to me but

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:43 PM

#

no that's just.. bad

#

the way you used font on the sivara pull is pretty f ine, like i say i would've delayed that vend but that's just a fight specific thing

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:44 PM

#

so if you delay the vend youd delay the coral too?

#

font****

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:44 PM

#

yeah you push the entire font vend coral sequence back

#

but that's not something to do if you're not confident in fight length

#

like if you know your sivara kill is between 3:30 and 4:10

#

you would just, open as you did, font guardian coral vend at 3 mins

#

that's a minor gain and if you don't understand how long the fight will be you can easily lose a vend cast and a massive amount of damage so

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:45 PM

#

yeah true, thanks for that

#

was the pooling etc fine tho?

#

extra pooling with that 8sec stun too of course peepohappy

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:46 PM

#

it's like.. okay? i guess

#

you're not doing any pooling before env really

#

like if you plot your energy one sec

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:47 PM

#

to be fair since i started running 2dd now with unmooring gorak blackwater i should probably start pooling for envenom to maximise dd mut damage

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:48 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:48 PM

#

obviously ep bosses arent patchwerk and im not a robot but that dmg chart is looking so much more different to the sim one idek what to feel pepehands

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:48 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

like

#

this env is basically just for nothing

#

there's no reason not to delay it

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:49 PM

#

you delay it to ~100energy normally right?

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:49 PM

#

even higher really, 120-130ish

#

100 is a number you can start to aim for as a minimum i guess

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:50 PM

#

i guess i never really know when to re-start the pooling cycle once ive pooled env once to 130 and you get to do like a good 3 after that

#

without worrying about starving

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:50 PM

#

you hit 4cp and don't need to maintain bleeds? wait

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:50 PM

#

tyvm^^^^^

cobalt pelican Sep 17, 2019, 11:50 PM

#

exceptions for during tb/vend obviously

#

if either of those are up just mash to fit as much into them as you can

shut garnet Sep 17, 2019, 11:53 PM

#

i'll try, anyways since then i managed to get goraks + 65 neck so fingers crossed i end up doing a lot more dps than that monkaW

daring cave Sep 18, 2019, 12:55 AM

#

whats everyone mainly using for 3rd essence?

sour wasp Sep 18, 2019, 12:56 AM

#

iris

#

strife

#

sim

#

yo

#

self

true nexus Sep 18, 2019, 1:10 AM

#

depends on the content mayhemm

#

and on what you have available for yourself

whole sinew Sep 18, 2019, 5:22 AM

#

Whats the best way to deal with garrote needing to refreshed while at 4/5 CP right before toxic blade is coming off of CD? Waste the CP from garrote/toxic blade, or Envenom and hold TB for a few extra seconds?

drifting cloud Sep 18, 2019, 5:24 AM

#

waste CP

arctic walrus Sep 18, 2019, 5:24 AM

#

Define "right before"

whole sinew Sep 18, 2019, 5:24 AM

#

like 3 seconds before TB is coming off CD, with garrote being at about 8 seconds

arctic walrus Sep 18, 2019, 5:24 AM

#

you tb and refresh during

whole sinew Sep 18, 2019, 5:25 AM

#

TB -> Envenom -> refresh im assuming

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 5:31 AM

#

Bingo

whole sinew Sep 18, 2019, 5:53 AM

#

Thanks!

bleak spoke Sep 18, 2019, 6:04 AM

#

Ihateazsharaihateazsharaihateazshara

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 6:20 AM

#

You're already ruining it for me lettuce

#

I start on thursday AngryWoof

polar cape Sep 18, 2019, 6:37 AM

#

WA the fight

wide hedge Sep 18, 2019, 6:49 AM

#

the thing about azshara m is, that it costs so much time to get to the "hard" parts of the fight

#

the first 5 minutes or so are boring af

distant lava Sep 18, 2019, 6:55 AM

#

Kinda like zaqul but even worse then

#

PepeHands

wide hedge Sep 18, 2019, 7:04 AM

#

yeah we got into p4 some times now, but still about 2 weeks away from the kill due to players quitting for classic (LUL)

#

people get mindcontrolled over and over again... spears are not 100% accurate and we wipe cause of this

#

so stupid

#

but thats #off-topic

digital shore Sep 18, 2019, 10:17 AM

#

Dumb question but I'm pretty new to WoW. Does it matter which dagger is in the main- and offhand? I have a 430 and 445 one.

edgy pawn Sep 18, 2019, 10:17 AM

#

you want the higher ilvl in your mainhand

digital shore Sep 18, 2019, 10:18 AM

#

I thought so, thanks

edgy pawn Sep 18, 2019, 10:18 AM

#

mainhand weapon damage does WAY more damage than offhand

digital shore Sep 18, 2019, 10:18 AM

#

Does the gem matter? I have force multiplier on my current mainhand which is the 430 one

#

Do I swap it to my 445?

edgy pawn Sep 18, 2019, 10:18 AM

#

doesnt matter

digital shore Sep 18, 2019, 10:19 AM

#

Okay thank you

#

My dagger also has a socket. Do I insert +120 agility or +50 crit? Agility seems to be low in stat weights but I still think it's the best choice?

cloud sandal Sep 18, 2019, 10:22 AM

#

sim it bro

#

pick highest

edgy pawn Sep 18, 2019, 10:22 AM

#

usually you want a 120 agi one and the rest your highest stat

#

but you should sim that

digital shore Sep 18, 2019, 10:22 AM

#

Okay

vagrant tapir Sep 18, 2019, 11:00 AM

#

@zine hey m8, you around?

modest tendon Sep 18, 2019, 11:04 AM

#

3 target cleave using a DD/ss build (Rastakhan In BoD for example) what type of general rotation is optimal? Do you garrote 3 targets then single target the priority damage on 1 of them?

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 11:08 AM

#

Close enough mate, in and out @vagrant tapir

#

Sup?

honest needle Sep 18, 2019, 11:12 AM

#

whats better for assasination m+ 2 EB and 1 SS or 2 SS and 1 EB

#

cause with my gear i cant do 3 and 3

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 11:13 AM

#

2 ss 1 eb probs

honest needle Sep 18, 2019, 11:13 AM

#

ok just making sure

#

or should i run 3 ss and no eb

#

i can do that as well

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 11:15 AM

#

Nah, keep as is

granite zenith Sep 18, 2019, 12:32 PM

#

How much haste should you have in raids?

#

I had 22% and all crit gems but sim told me to change all gems to haste

#

now it have 26 and it feels like alot

scarlet sequoia Sep 18, 2019, 12:32 PM

#

9

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 12:32 PM

#

As much as sims tell you

#

Aslong as you use topgear all the time, you're good

granite zenith Sep 18, 2019, 12:33 PM

#

always

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 12:33 PM

#

Then all is gooe

#

Trust our lord and saviour sim 🙏

honest needle Sep 18, 2019, 12:36 PM

#

what benthic piece is most important

#

Im starting to upgrade them

#

n0ot sure which to get to max ilvl first

#

prolly feet right ?

distant lava Sep 18, 2019, 12:37 PM

#

no

#

bracers first for ilvl

#

cause the boots effect doesn't increase with ilvl

honest needle Sep 18, 2019, 12:37 PM

#

I have pufferfish is that ok ?

#

or is other bracers much better

#

@distant lava

distant lava Sep 18, 2019, 12:40 PM

#

they are kinda better

#

I don't really know if it changes benthic leveling priority tho

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 12:41 PM

#

0.3% better

#

Ish

distant lava Sep 18, 2019, 12:41 PM

#

just sim yourself with the different benthics you have on higher ilvl with gear compare

#

to see what you should level first

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 12:41 PM

#

But the levelling prio is really scuffed

honest needle Sep 18, 2019, 12:41 PM

#

ya i just wanted to see which to upgrade first

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 12:41 PM

#

Just sim yourself with the 425 equiv and do accordingly

honest needle Sep 18, 2019, 12:41 PM

#

u think its worth rolling and trying to get the other bracers

#

Im debating if i should upgrade my 420s or keep puffer fish or go for better ones

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 12:42 PM

#

I didn't think so, and upgraded mine

rapid talon Sep 18, 2019, 12:56 PM

#

Anyone mind DMing me to help analyze some of my logs?

winter moss Sep 18, 2019, 12:56 PM

#

just post em here

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 12:57 PM

#

If you're shy or whatnot, I normally do

rapid talon Sep 18, 2019, 12:57 PM

#

not shy, just didn't want to crowd up incase I had follow ups

#

but I guess others can learn from them

#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6nTRKQ3aWPVzk1vJ#fight=4&type=summary

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 1:00 PM

#

I'll take a peak when I get home since wcl on phone sucks

rapid talon Sep 18, 2019, 1:00 PM

#

Appreciate it

worldly iron Sep 18, 2019, 1:05 PM

#

📎 77688f78d5d7f1d88645dd91591e415d.png

#

you wanna change your opener to this

#

its also okay to overcap combo points with toxic blade, rather than using envenom before using tb

#

📎 59696689f3b855e12115fce57c3e6e36.png

#

like here, where you could pool with max cp into tb

#

you only got 1 envenom in this tb window, you wanna aim for like at least 2

quartz rune Sep 18, 2019, 1:12 PM

#

When do you use BotE for the "new" Opener?

worldly iron Sep 18, 2019, 1:12 PM

#

pins

#

it hasn't changed

quartz rune Sep 18, 2019, 1:14 PM

#

Oh ok sorry

#

facepalm

worldly iron Sep 18, 2019, 1:14 PM

#

it's all good

simple meteor Sep 18, 2019, 1:32 PM

#

what's the new opener been playing classic too much did i miss anything?

worldly iron Sep 18, 2019, 1:34 PM

#

the "new" opener he refers to is the MA one, it can be found in the guide for rotations

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 1:34 PM

#

The one that vani linked

simple meteor Sep 18, 2019, 1:34 PM

#

i see thx

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 1:34 PM

#

It's been like this for well over two months now I think

rapid talon Sep 18, 2019, 1:35 PM

#

@worldly iron thanks man, appreciate the feedback, I'll be practicing that opener

simple meteor Sep 18, 2019, 1:35 PM

#

yeap been playing this whole patch my bad didn't see it

rapid talon Sep 18, 2019, 1:36 PM

#

just to clarify, if my 1st mut only get me to 3 cp then I'd want to mut again before rupture, correct?

edgy pawn Sep 18, 2019, 1:36 PM

#

yes

rapid talon Sep 18, 2019, 1:36 PM

#

right on

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 1:37 PM

#

If it doesn't get you 4, you mut again

#

And if you mut twice at first, the opener changes a tiny bit

#

You go
Mut
Mut
Rup
Gar
Mut
And then as regular on cds

#

P much you just wanna garrote next gcd after rup granted you're not in MA anymore

rapid talon Sep 18, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

makes sense

#

another question based on the above, should TB only be used w/ >3 cp? since I'd assume i'd want to env immediately afterwards?

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

You use it on ce

#

Cd*

#

And want to get 2+ env in each window

rapid talon Sep 18, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

ok, didn't know if using it with 0-2 CP was a waste since I prob would only get 1 env within the window

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

Well, then you planned poorly

shy dust Sep 18, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

You can even use TB at 5 cp and it’s fine

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

You'd want to pool

edgy pawn Sep 18, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

in a perfect world you have close to max energy and 4 cp when tb comes off cd

rapid talon Sep 18, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

yeah I need to work on pooling in prep for TB

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

You use tb regardless of cp and energy

rapid talon Sep 18, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

roger that

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

If you have low on either and miss envenoms, odds are that's poor preplanning and counts as missplay

rapid talon Sep 18, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

appreciate the help all, should help me out a bunch

unreal burrow Sep 18, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

Hi folks, I was wondering with the Razor Coral trinket you use it every time Vendetta is up regardless of how many charges you have ?

worldly iron Sep 18, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

pins

unreal burrow Sep 18, 2019, 1:54 PM

#

Yeah but I just wanted to make sure there was no other factor.

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Thanks @worldly iron

worldly iron Sep 18, 2019, 1:56 PM

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anytime

sour citrus Sep 18, 2019, 3:05 PM

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guys, question, why does raidbot say 430 w/socket Gloves of Incomparable Beauty is better than 440 Gloves of the Iron Reavers and 440 Underrot Grotto Tenders? Sorry, dont know how to link gear into discord.

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 3:05 PM

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Aren't those the azshara hands?

sour citrus Sep 18, 2019, 3:06 PM

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yes, they are

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 3:06 PM

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Well, because they're BiS

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Can you not see the effect?

sour citrus Sep 18, 2019, 3:06 PM

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I just got it last night, dont even know what effects it will do, apart from reading it only

arctic walrus Sep 18, 2019, 3:06 PM

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And it had a socket

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 3:07 PM

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I mean

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If you've read it

sour citrus Sep 18, 2019, 3:07 PM

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I have

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 3:07 PM

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You should be able to understand it does a lot of damaage

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Last time I checked losing 0 stats and just gaining a near 15k proc x3 each 2 min is better than 10 ilvls

sour citrus Sep 18, 2019, 3:08 PM

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but the other gear of that kind, Im only wearing 2 and now 3 because of the gloves.

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 3:08 PM

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So?

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What does that effect the strenght of the hands?

sour citrus Sep 18, 2019, 3:09 PM

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although I understand what you mean @rigid mango

low junco Sep 18, 2019, 3:09 PM

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can someone give me the sim code for font of power

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base 430

sour citrus Sep 18, 2019, 3:10 PM

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storm of the eternal rises for 10 sec every 2 mins. dealing 14,196 arcane damage 3 times to a random enemy within 60yds. all storm of the eternal effects occur simoutaneously

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 3:10 PM

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That's the text, yep

low junco Sep 18, 2019, 3:10 PM

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please 🙂

sour citrus Sep 18, 2019, 3:10 PM

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got it, thanks @rigid mango and @arctic walrus

arctic walrus Sep 18, 2019, 3:11 PM

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trinket1=",id=169314,bonus_id=4799/42/1502/4786,context=5

low junco Sep 18, 2019, 3:11 PM

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thanks vel

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ur my life saver

arctic walrus Sep 18, 2019, 3:18 PM

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❤

unreal burrow Sep 18, 2019, 3:30 PM

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What's your default rotation in M+ on packs guys ?

severe sedge Sep 18, 2019, 3:31 PM

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https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jNreTiC9ZYHggt2zGraVKv

Raidbots

Top Gear - Diflucan - 47,379 DPS - Raidbots

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iris rly better?

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or sim trap

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 3:32 PM

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Iris is bis for ST

severe sedge Sep 18, 2019, 3:32 PM

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but any swap and its worse?

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 3:32 PM

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not entirely, you have like 3 seconds to hit the target to keep your stacks up

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But on certain fights it's devalued because you swap, yeah

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or you have some other way of gaining energy/haste

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Like per say, orgozoa, court, zaq

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They all have some way you lose value on it, although swapping isn't even that bad aslong as you don't do it super often

severe sedge Sep 18, 2019, 3:34 PM

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aight!

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 3:36 PM

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@unreal burrow open w 3 garrotes, rupture, build and rupture from there, you fok to build and spend on envenoms on prio target, reapply bleeds with ruptures/vanish 3 garrotes again, if you're at a huge pack, you can spam fok and ignore all CP

unreal burrow Sep 18, 2019, 3:40 PM

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ok ty @rigid mango

obtuse sequoia Sep 18, 2019, 4:09 PM

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hello guys, new rogue here 🙂 i love assa for now but i love m+ soo can u tell me can assa handle good in m+ high keys?

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 4:09 PM

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Yes.

shy axle Sep 18, 2019, 4:16 PM

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if using font and coral, use coral as soon as possible after the pull?

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 4:16 PM

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Yep

shy axle Sep 18, 2019, 4:17 PM

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ty pal

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if vendetta has 20 or less cd use font 5 sec prior to vendetta?

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 4:21 PM

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If you're unsure about coral and font usage, there's a paragraph in #tc-updates

shy axle Sep 18, 2019, 4:24 PM

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yes, did just read the pins prior to asking and figured it is going to be saved then

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lets have a look, t

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y

strange python Sep 18, 2019, 4:24 PM

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any where i can find bis gear for assa?

white seal Sep 18, 2019, 4:25 PM

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https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tRb4mPdmiGgEjvBSLZrzju Why do I sim so low? 😦

Raidbots

Quick Sim - Mopop - 45,939 DPS - Raidbots

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 4:25 PM

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@strange python BiS is hard to say in bfa

strange python Sep 18, 2019, 4:26 PM

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so i've seen. Cant find much anywhere

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 4:27 PM

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You lack two benthics, lack sockets, lack 430 font

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etc

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Helm is aight

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Your azerite choices seem a bit scuffed but might just be the best with unoptimised gear

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You're also simming 2x loyal without any loyal allies

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WEIRD

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https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hPV77EscEPtnBYeWisqjg9 that's more like it

Raidbots

Top Gear - Mopop - 47,762 DPS - Raidbots

white seal Sep 18, 2019, 4:30 PM

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Oooh, thanks, not really that good on simming ^^

meager geyser Sep 18, 2019, 4:47 PM

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https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/terXyWRtQJjotANUtxM23M Any ideas? Not good at this simming thing

Raidbots

Quick Sim - Combatllama - 45,066 DPS - Raidbots

solemn meadow Sep 18, 2019, 4:50 PM

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Do you still need the command for using azsharas trinket

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pre pull?

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or is it in the apl now

rigid mango Sep 18, 2019, 4:51 PM

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In the apl

solemn meadow Sep 18, 2019, 4:53 PM

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what essence do you go for at zaqul trying out for my reclear

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is it blood vision puri

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or lucid

arctic walrus Sep 18, 2019, 5:01 PM

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Difficulty? And are u on echos?

solemn meadow Sep 18, 2019, 5:29 PM

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ye delirium

serene surge Sep 18, 2019, 5:46 PM

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How do I know if the raidbot sim is calculating my Benthic pieces or not?

vestal wren Sep 18, 2019, 5:47 PM

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is this option checked or not?

📎 unknown.png

serene surge Sep 18, 2019, 5:48 PM

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Ah, I was unsure of how to get that menu open. Just not too familiar with Raidbots. I found it, thank you.