I just on cd my vendetta on Mythic Ashvane right?
#assassination
distant lava
Depends on what your raid does
shut garnet
i think you're usually meant to align cds with when she shields go down
i guess it depends how much of a breeze your guild finds it
shut garnet
ye so if JUST you pop "cds", then you'll most likely get it back
dense cedar
plus u need damage in the shield anyway
shut garnet
if everyone pops cds then no
distant lava
It depends onehat your raid does
If your RL asks 2 mins to hold for when the shield breaks
You hold
frozen karma
ideally you wanna use it on cd but your raid laider might assign people who use cds on shield and others who will use theirs when shield is gone
arctic walrus
@bleak spoke to be honest court isn't a fight I've really cared looking a lot into. I checked my logs and depending on the week I did either all on pashmar or split 2/2. I'd look at top logs
But for 3rd vendetta I would rather wait out the aoe, or just use it on melee dude
lost wharf
I downed Ashvane myth last week and we used Lust around 6min for 3rd P2, so everybody with 2min and 3min cd used it on pull and pretty much on cooldown. It worked well I'd say.
heavy trail
Has anyone simmed if stacking coral with inkpod+coral as assassination is a big loss? Most of the bosses get the real progress going sub 40% so i think big crits @ 30% are sometimes worth fishing for.
lost wharf
Well I litereally just did it out of curiosity, because I have a 440 inkpod with a socket https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qZD4VBDvDPA5T7NyhHrWQx
You can ignore the other shit. I was just looking how much of a difference different upgrades would make
woeful hornet
which azerite armour piece should i target with residuum? is there any top tier armour in there?
distant lava
Shoulders
frozen karma
Gorak Tul's Mantle
distant lava
The absolute best has a head from raid and a chest from raid
distant lava
Wait idk if you dont raid
Cause thats for ST raid
M+ I'm not sure about what you should buy as sin
bleak spoke
Ite sounds good, I think Ill wait cuz I don’t want to int the raid @arctic walrus
distant lava
You're on that shit boss aswell lettuce ?
odd basin
when i get a piece with SS do i go subterfuge always?
keen dome
best piece for chest in raid is blackwater ? Should only be true if you have some other users of loyal to the end trait no?
rigid mango
It's BiS if enough people have loyal, yeah
arctic walrus
Yes
keen dome
i'll stick with cephaloid then :p
rigid mango
Should be enough people using it, it's a good trait
sullen pagoda
yeah its usually more than enough people
lost wharf
It's also not like worldvein where when your ranges use it they basically don't count
turbid osprey
yo focused resolve or unbridled fury for pure ST?
rigid mango
Before it got nerfed, yeah
turbid osprey
oh, lmao never even knew it got nerfed
turbid osprey
ill use the rest in m+ as outlaw then haha
ty
i assume empowered proximity is the aoe one then
rigid mango
at uhh, 4t+
quasi pewter
If u ever plan on progressing zaqul you can use them for delirium add
quasi pewter
On fights under 40 it simmed better thsn fury
So delirium add for sure as its usually 20
rigid mango
Makes sense, dope
turbid osprey
nice
rigid mango
wut
wet ruin
if you want it just for the 20 sec
quasi pewter
You can just sim it but i think crit was better last time i simmed
wet ruin
what about the fury, is there a way to sim it with only 20 sec of fury
rigid mango
Sim for 20sec?
wet ruin
it would be kinda scuffed because of burst in the start, wouldn't it
rigid mango
What?
wet ruin
if you simmed for 20 sec
wet ruin
I asked if there was an alternative for it 😄
rigid mango
If you want to sim non-burst flat 20% of the 3 ones
you can get rid of cds and do custom sim
quasi pewter
You have cds for delirium anyway though if you play bote vision
Could get rid of bl i guess
But you have haste from realm so
wet ruin
yea, it was just a random question
shy axle
After reading the info regarding behemoths as bis, whats the "theoretical bis setup" in a vacuum now? Still tought it would be DD/NP/op helmet/Gorak/ceph, but did not really follow any discussion
worn pilot
what do u guys think, is it worth running 2/3 shrouded,echoing knives suffocations for 15,16+ keys thsi week?
shy dust
Most would say to run 2/2/2 with SS EB TTK
rigid mango
worn pilot
i just wondered if single target is gonna be a little lackluster
rigid mango
with 2 ss 2 ttk it's quite good
worn pilot
i assume iris is quite good
rigid mango
It's the best of everything not blood
But blood is stupidly good
blood >>>>>>>>> iris >>>>> everything else
worn pilot
i dotn have blood on level 3
rigid mango
well, get it
worn pilot
getting it is cancer
rigid mango
subtle tundra
im just gonna vent here
MY GUILD FUCKING WANTS ME TO PLAY OUTLAW FOR ORGOZOA REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
i refuse
rotund mural
lol xD
rigid mango
rotund mural
just say no, embrace the freedom (and a possible bench, but who cares, freedoom!!)
raven mica
Wtf playing outlaw in raid is a blessing
When did assassination straying away from its namesake and start transitioning in class fantasy towards being like this master alchemist of poisons? Also like what’s with all the bleeding, the spec has so much like bleeding now.
rough yew
Which pinned message
Has the detail on BiS azerite pieces
For ST
Ie which ones should I be rolling for from vendor vs which ones needed from raid?
rigid mango
Zaqul helm + goraktuls + blackwater if enough loyals, cephalohide if not
rough yew
Got it, any suitable helm replacements
If I don’t have mythic zaquul helm?
I have gorak’s and blackester
Black water
arctic walrus
Pvp helmet
distant lava
first boss / slithering loa / engi helm
subtle tundra
heroic za'qul is still really good
fathom wyvern
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
rough yew
Gotcha thanks varas
I was gonna ask if it’s better to roll for 445 celp chest if I have black water already
Or just roll for a 445 helm from vendor
scarlet hinge
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
rough yew
But I don’t even have two daggers yet so imma just wait until I get em
outer venture
hey guys. quick question. So I got ashvane and azshara trinket now. how do you use the azshara trinket? do you channel it prepull and afterwards like 20 sec before vendetta is ready to use vendetta with ashvane?
arctic walrus
You can check in droptimizer. However, black water is bis in a raid setting with loyals
tiny ember
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
outer venture
I guess you want me to check pins but i cant find the azshara trinket guide there :S
shy dust
Check TC updates
outer venture
ah thanks alot dude
cobalt flame
Why my sim on 5 minutes fight with vision of perfection doesnt use 3rd vendetta?
or , 4th
my bad
wet ruin
pretty sure the quick sim report cuts somewhere after 4m
past mauve
so with the option of Coral/Font or Coral/Inkpod.. is it 50-50 out there with personal choice so you arent having to use double use trinkets? Sim is showing Coral/Font but I keep reading the Coral/Inkpod is a great combo for synergy.
wet ruin
trust the sim
scarlet sequoia
condensed
shut yacht
Hey there! So, for Za'qul most of sin rogues are running bote major and lucid+protocol. So, I imagine bote is for dps increase phases so it lines up every 2 of them but the protocol? Why so? Is it just to pad on adds?
shell lodge
when u cant drop Azshara's Font of Power on rogue main, but it drops on Alt Warr tank..
arctic walrus
Yes
shell lodge
fleet whale
if i can get just one win in arena this week, i'll get C&S rank 3 next reset
chrome forum
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
past mauve
is there a magic number for extracting coral? some rogues use it lined up with tb on cd .. others i see holding it to high numbers before extract
rigid mango
use with vendetta
past mauve
so font - vend and coral when vend is up, holding it the whole time until vend is up again correct?
hushed arrow
Yes
rigid mango
if you want to learn how to use both together, there's a paragraph in #tc-updates that shows how to use it
past mauve
Thanks @rigid mango
sick eagle
what is abberation in TeP?
arctic walrus
zaqul + org
polar pier
should I be pooling energy before every toxic blade?
hazy flame
yes
and refresh your dots if possible
good if you work it in your rota
@polar pier aim for 3 envenoms for one tb
polar pier
ok so - refresh DoTs before TB and also pool energy to max envenom counts
ok thanks 😄
hazy flame
yeah
polar pier
decided to give it a go after playing sub for so long LUL
hazy flame
I think you will have a great time with assa
@polar pier you know your cd setup?
how does 3 different abilities work?
arctic walrus
Sim it
hazy flame
does it activate on dots?
arctic walrus
But I believe behind the enemy will be better
polar pier
hmm it feels quite clunky trying to refresh dots and pool energy before TB
like the DoTs don't fall into pandemic window
arctic walrus
Because you shouldn't be doing that
polar pier
whereas the website says use TB on cooldown
should I not be at least pooling energy for TB?
hazy flame
pooling and using on cd doesnt cancel each other out?
you see its coming up
pool and make sure your dots wont fall of while using tb
arctic walrus
You don't refresh bleeds outside of pandemic just to get them inside tb window
strange python
so dont refreash bleeds at 10 seconds if TB just came off cd?
just pop TB and refresh after?
arctic walrus
Ye
strange python
ahhhhh
fleet whale
4 is really rng though
polar pier
ok thanks for your help guys 😄
scarlet sequoia
np
fleet whale
wow getting to rank 65 was a much bigger dps increase than what i though
strange python
do you wanna refresh rupture with both 4 or 5 combo points at 7.2 seconds? guide says 5 CP
leaden burrow
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
strange python
just wondering if the pandemic window is different with 4
scarlet sequoia
4+
void bear
you guys have any clue how to get better gear xC
wont get any good loot ;-;
scarlet sequoia
doesnt matter
polar pier
4 CP ruptures are fine right?
scarlet sequoia
do what u want
spark oyster
You refresh at 5.4s with 4cp
scarlet sequoia
why tf are we using these timers
who the hell reapplies at that
unless youre a robot that wont happen
you plan ahead
fleet whale
what happens if you refresh at 5.37
spark oyster
I meant 5.4s or less cmon
scarlet sequoia
then u have 0.03 less rupture
you can apply at more as well
it doesnt matter if you apply at 8 seconds left if youre about to toxic blade
rather that than drop bleeds
spark oyster
Im just answering his question
polar pier
'it doesnt matter if you apply at 8 seconds left if youre about to toxic blade'
seems like people are saying different things about this??
scarlet sequoia
if you happen to fuck up and your bleeds drop during toxic blade then fuck it
you dont rupture inside toxic blade
hazy flame
obviously
scarlet sequoia
but you shouldnt suck to the point where your rupture drops
it can happen, but try to avoid it ofc
cobalt pelican
the apl will refresh rupture inside tb if required and never refresh early
cause that's what's found to be best
you can use personal judgement and like if we're talking <0.5 seconds lost pandemic sure
but realistically beyond that it's just a loss
rigid mango
Raz you're wrong
The sims have been done time and time again
For ages
Applying rupture inside of TB is better than dropping it
I doubted it, but it's supposedly been tried and tested time and time again
and it's a dps loss to let it drop
scarlet sequoia
sure if youre half way into toxic blade and your bleeds drop
verbal knot
There's only one way to solve this. Rap battle.
scarlet sequoia
if youre on the last envenom and your rupture just dropped
i would always envenom
and refresh rupture with whatever the first mutilate gives
arctic walrus
That wouldn't/shouldn't happen though
if youre bleeds are dropping "halfway" through tb, that means you had <5 seconds left on rupture
which is pandemic
arctic walrus
I'm saying you don't refresh if rupture is like 8 or 9
hazy flame
ah ok
rough yew
What’s TB I keep reading that as tuberculosis
polar pier
toxic blade
hazy flame
toxicblade
rough yew
Thanks
cobalt pelican
people just generally vastly overestimate the importance of envenoms inside tb
it's a 'nice to have and should have most of the time' over a 'need to have'
hazy flame
tuberculosis as a poison 
verbal knot
So you always want to refresh rupture at >5 seconds inside the pandemic window pretty much?
polar pier
this seems like a pretty optimal set up maybe
hazy flame
mutilate before garot right?
polar pier
yah
hazy flame
k then yes
cobalt pelican
even looking at a 3envenom tb with 100% crit envenoms and only 1 dd proc the envenoms account for barely over 60% of the nature damage during tb, and the difference between 2 or 3 envenoms is like 14k damage or something..
polar pier
it was rupture --> mutilate x2 --> envenom --> mutilate --> garotte --> that ss
hazy flame
@polar pier I do the same so I could be wrong tho
cobalt pelican
(of which would be mopped up easily by one venemous tick and a rupture tick)
hazy flame
@cobalt pelican so you wouldnt refresh if tb had 2 seconds left on cd and your dots had 5 seconds or less left?
I dont know what your point is
never let your dots drop yes
cobalt pelican
ok . . .
rough yew
Literally been bonus rolling every week on M sivara so I can get two daggers. Still nothing. Guess this game doesn’t want me to try sin spec >.>
stiff vortex
guys when i mainly play m+ witch traits should i take?
rough yew
Yah but I have 0 daggers 😦
rigid mango
@stiff vortex any mix of echoing blades, twist the knife and shrouded suffocation
You need one of shrouded and echoing before even touching m+
rigid mango
Priority and ST damage
bleak spoke
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gkn39xF5b7KKRCRBtETHUc no worldvein pad!
scarlet sequoia
wet ruin
since you started that conversation earlier, has it been tested whether tb on max cp is actually better or not
solar rose
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rBHrDqiHiuDVLgP9YL868b Still no coral I just want one 
lament leaf
is harlan dice good for m+?
lusty narwhal
Big sim
cobalt pelican
yeah it has annsie, it's just always better to press it the global it comes up regardless of when that is
it's something fairly easy to change in the apl if you wanted to test for your own character
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ccNo6MwuWNk9RGkjW9K7eX smth super basic like this should give you a good idea, i imagine you could get rid of some of the difference by making the condition a little more complex but it'll still be inferior to just pressing it
stone crescent
Should we always be refreshing rupture/gar with max pandemic time or just anytime within the pandemic timer?
jolly agate
Which essences for M+ is recommended? I don't trust the dungeon slice sim since dungeons have so many variables
I just got 65 neck with most essences at rank 3
cobalt pelican
anytime within pandemic is fine really
and generally people just play blood lucid c&s i think
jolly agate
Blood major right?
cobalt pelican
yes
jolly agate
C&S is one of the few I don't have r3 
cobalt pelican
if you have purification protocol i guess you can play that
but that's even more of a pain to get than c&s
so
wet ruin
@cobalt pelican a bit of late response, but my question was rather if it is better to pool energy for like a second or two (assuming you will not overcap) to wait for tb and then pressing it at 5 cp, or use envenom at 5 and then tb
cuz I think the apl will just use envenom and then tb
cobalt pelican
you can check using a similar method but the answer is basically no, the energy pooling for envenom more than covers it
keen bloom
Any tips how to use razor coral + ink pod on ashvane ?
keep full stacks for ink pod or use when vendetta comes up?
wet ruin
hm, so using the envenom outside of tb and then using tb would be the better option?
cobalt pelican
it depends on whether you reach the energy threshhold for envenom before tb comes off cooldown if that makes sense
like, it'll be waiting for ~125 energy for envenom anyway
if that happens before tb is ready it will fire off the envenom because 1 extra global of time will cap energy
if it does not it will hold, tb at 5 and then envenom
wet ruin
I am looking at one right now, it used envenom on 123 energy and then tb the next second (which is the second it came off cd)
can we reach 50 energy regen per second, or does it track when garrote and rupture would tick
cobalt pelican
it does track what your energy income is yeah, but it's not cut so tightly that you can land on 169 in a global if that makes sense
wet ruin
I had 123 energy again when it used tb, so I guess it wouldn't be an overcap
cobalt pelican
like it will always leave a small buffer to ensure nothing weird happens like op proccing etc e tc
it WILL be a small gain to delay that envenom to ~135-140 or something if it means getting the tb off first
but that's just such a niche case that it won't ever get added to the apl
you're looking at something like in the region of probably 0.05% with potential to cause hiccups with other stuff if that makes sense
tropic spruce
stepping into the middle here, but - I read opener is Mutilate, rupture(if4CP), mutilate again, then garrote, rocky, Vendetta, TB -> vanish env-mut-env
the thing is here that I often get 4+4 CP in the opener, making me overcap CP if I use TB as listed. Is there another way to adapt to 4+4 cp in opener?
wet ruin
ye, thats why I was wondering if it would be an increase, because that way you ensure that envenom in the tb, while the other way it did refresh garrote and rupture in the tb
cobalt pelican
no, just overcap
tropic spruce
Well, that was easy ^^ thanks alot
cobalt pelican
yeah if you know 100% that your energy won't cap given your circumstances then go for it, those are the kinds of things where humans can get minor advantage on "apl-perfect" play
it's just something that can't really be standarized into the apl without really long convoluted checks which isn't really what it aims to be
tropic spruce
A more tricky question I have: I often find myself able to chose between 5cp finishers or 4cp finishers by refreshing garrote before or after a finisher - is it better to aim for 5cp by topping off cp with garrote/tb, or is it better to use finisher on 4cp and use the garrote to top a 3 up to a 4 for next finisher?
TL;DR = more 4cp finishers vs fewer 5cp finishers?
cobalt pelican
if you can fill from 4cp to 5cp with garrote that isn't outside pandemic, do so
don't force yourself to 5 by randomly pressing garrote for no reason if it doesn't need r efreshing though
tropic spruce
so better aim for more 5cp finishers than to go for more envenom+elaborate planning-uptime by getting more 4cp finishers out?
cobalt pelican
it's not really about envenom or elaborate planning up time because neither of those will be significantly impacted
it's more just being efficient with combo points
garrote being the final addition to combo points ensures you don't overcap at all within that 'cycle' of combo points
if you then garrote at 1 after finishing, it's entirely possible to don't crit (3cp now) then double crit (7cp now) if that makes sense
the choice is almost never between garroting from 4 to 5 or 3 to 4 though, like that window is pretty small
it'd be between 4 to 5 and 0 to 1
tropic spruce
hmm, okay so if I'm at 3 CP, garrote pandemic window has just begun - if I mutilate I waste 0-2cp, but if I garrote+env at 4, I get a fresh cycle after
sounds better to me, but I'm not sure the math checks out
cobalt pelican
i mean, you would garrote in that case yes
what i mean is you would never be directly comparing garroting 4 to 5 and 3 to 4 as options for 1 garrote refresh
(well, you might, but rarely, and probably as a mistake)
tropic spruce
well if I avoid refreshing garrote at 3cp as often as I can, it ends up being a 4->5 instead
it often ends up*
I find myself in this particular situation several times per fight
or if I'm at 4cp and can refresh garrote, do I hold it for next cycle since it's very likely I get 3cp from next mutilate?
cobalt pelican
don't ever try and avoid using garrote as your final cp before a finisher, that's the ideal scenario
it's not like.. 'very likely' you'll get 3
even if you're optimistic and say you have 40% crit or something it's not very likely you get 3
the only ability you have that lets you choose to be combo point efficient is garrote, if you garrote as a final cp before a finisher you know that has been efficient, if you garrote at the start it's basically a shitshoot whether it goes perfectly or you hit 7cp
tropic spruce
I see, yeah I just figured out that the average cp per mutilate is between 2-3 which means a clean cycle is more likely to be cp efficient
Thanks for straightening my thoughts out man! ❤
wet ruin
I am too lazy to do the complete math, but wouldn't using garrote on 0-1 be better in terms of cp usage
assuming 40% crit, if you do 0-1 garrote you have 64% chance that you will do 1 mut that will put you to 4-5 cp and use another finisher
and you have about 23% chance of overcapping cp
while if you do 4-5 garrote, then you have 16% chance of using 1 mut that will put you to 4 and use a finisher
and with 4-5 garrote you then have about 36% of overcapping (by using 2 mutilates)
cobalt pelican
that's completely discounting the previous set of combopoints
if you're looking at a set of combo points from 0 to 5 then yeah, you are correct, but that's not the entire sequence of events
wet ruin
what do you mean, I was assuming you are at 4 cp
cobalt pelican
in that case yes the probabilities are correct, yes
what i am trying to say but am maybe too sleepy to is just
when you consider a set of 10 combo points, and consider the option that if your first set of mutilates goes to 5 (or over) before garrote (so, +2, +4 to 6 for example), and you take that into account on the overall set
strange python
All the top logs I see are using at least 1 Loyal to the end... is that a necessary trait now? is it worth taking a Loyal over my only Nothing Personal?
cobalt pelican
4 to 5 works out much better than 0 to 1, before even considering the guaranteed 5cp finisher damage as it's not really relevant to the cp conversation
loyal is good, whether it's better than np is a sim question really
wet ruin
it is kinda late for me as well, but now I am lost as well 😄
when do you consider 4-5 garrote if you first set goes to 5
cobalt pelican
i'm really bad at explaining what i'm thinking i apologize
the easiest way i can think of saying it is
tldr nothing you've said is wrong, the math you did is right
however you're solely looking at it like.. starting from 4cp
the same probabilities that you posted apply to the previous set of combo points, but you have the OPTION (not obligation) to garrote at the end
which means you can always ensure that the garrote combo point is used correctly
so you might mut 2 mut 6 envenom garrote mut etc
or you might mut 4 garrote envenom mut 2 mut 4 envenom
does that make sense
i'd have to write out all the probabilities for it to actually be clear in my head
but like i say i'm not even 100% sure that what i'm saying is right at this point cause my brain doesn't even work rn
wet ruin
😄
I am starting to see what you mean
but I think you are assuming you have the pandemic in the previous points
cobalt pelican
that is true yeah, that's assuming you have some window to play with
wet ruin
but looking at it now, assuming you can pool energy and you can see pandemic coming or something along those lines, if you get to 5 cp from muts, you just use envenom and then garrote, I think there would be no point in waiting for a 4 cp to use garrote on
and if you get 4 cp, then the math above should apply and it would be better to do it at 0-1
so that means it would always be better to use 0-1, assuming you have that option
but I could be wrong, it is indeed late
true nexus
!font
lean veldt
is there a guide on how to use a razor coral?
i just got mine, but not quite sure when/how to use it
nm i think i see it
basically use with Vendetta ya?
civic palm
odd rampart
how many stacks of hysteria should I be taking before cloaking on za'qul?
lean veldt
good question, i want to know too! (I am on that boss now)
arctic walrus
6-7
odd rampart
ok cool. also, if you're going down for the first set of delirium, do you stay away from the boss during maddening eruption? I seem to be taking a ton of dmg from at roughly ~ 3.10 into fight
arctic walrus
You can be max range
peak saffron
what's more damage on Za'qul? using vendetta in Delirium realm or using it during his damage amplified phases?
just debating if i should be holding vendetta for when i go down or not
echo cargo
Does Coral usage change on Orgozoa if you're using FoK traits?
low junco
@peak saffron delirium realm increases ur haste so yeah
if u go down after 50% u want to hold ur vendeta for the echo of delirium
thats if u raid heroic ofc
honest needle
HOW DO I find inw arcraft logs if people are prepotting n which pots they are using
i forgot where to find it
?
signal salmon
@honest needle buffs?
drifting cloud
its under mechanics
honest needle
Im trying to find out if every 1 is prepotting and which pots they are using
drifting cloud
oh for that you will have to go 1 by 1, hf
drifting cloud
well under buffs
arctic walrus
Mechanics tab shows both
heavy trail
Use wipefest, shows a summary
placid mulch
heavy trail
Hi has anyone an custom APL used on the razor coral + inkpod usage?
Default APL uses coral on 2nd vendetta (screen). Most high performance logs of the trinket combination use it the same way outlaw does, on 31% bosshp, has anyone gone deepter into this?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hEpMrUmUdgzaDttKcNPze3
rigid mango
What high performance logs?
When looking at nukkz's logs, who consistantly gets near or r1 logs and only uses that combo, he uses coral with each vend
heavy trail
Just went for Boss DPS parses and klicked through some of them (ofc equiped the item IDs)
rigid mango
I'm prettt sure the way you're trying to make it was how it was when the sims just came out
But judging by the change, the current way is the optimised way
heavy trail
Ok, so i can trust the sims and bag my 445 inkpod for 430 baseline font 
rigid mango
I'm in the same seat as you are, but I also think that if inkpod crits it might outvalue, or on certain fights inkpod might be better
Judging by the fact that nukkz can perform so well with coral inkpod I can only assume that the setup is still good enough
heavy trail
Ye, it sims 730 dps behind 430 font but it doesnt "feel" like that..
signal salmon
Morning guys. Is it possible to move 1 WeakAura to diff X Y coordinates, depending on a spec I am playing. I know it is possible when trigger is diff talent setup for example.
strong folio
You need different copies of the same I think
heavy trail
Pretty sure its not, maybe it is with customcode as most things are possible but i guess best solution is to have different groups per spec and rearange it as 2 items.
I do even have same WA 2-3 times in each group, depending on my talentselection
lost horizon
if you make a separate trigger from what your WA is actually tracking you can set conditions based on that new trigger for position adjustment
these are my conditions for an icon that just tracks my AR CD in outlaw
trigger 2 is this:
so if i've got dancing steel talented it'll be in one position, but it'll move to make room for a blade rush or killing spree icon if i don't have dancing steel talented
@signal salmon try something like that
@heavy trail also may wanna consider doing this so you don't have so many WA copies
full pecan
Hey guys, what is in your opinion best use of coral+font? I just drop those and i'm trying to figure it out
pliant wing
Hi everyone, can someone check this boss and tell me what can i improve ? I know i used one more mut before garot, and vend before guardian, but for the rest ? https://fr.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Zf197kJYdvNm2Wn3/#fight=30&source=147&type=damage-done
also miss the third coral/vend 😄
polar pier
haste is simming the lowest for me, has anyone else had similar stat weights? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8gGiWS7CLnorqpQamSUPyA
I don't have enough ranks of condensed life force yet to make it better than memory of lucid dreams
pliant wing
haste sim low cause u use lucid main
honest needle
Is it worth me waiting to get raid azerite with the pieces i currently have? or should i reroll for that it tells me. I feel like i have pretty good traits right now. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/31zUNmAtT8fKM59y76VfLd
honest needle
doesnt my helm alrdy have bis stats. i feel like the 445 residue helm has worst stats
@drifting cloud
drifting cloud
well yeah its bis, but you arent getting the mythic version anytime soon if you are 3/8
and the slithering loa is barely worse
wide lake
za'qul
tall narwhal
guys any idea why I am simming lower as assassination on a pure ST fight
than I sim with outlaw ?
with outlaw i sim 43k patchwerk fight
sullen pagoda
Nvm
dense cedar
do u have the outlaw sim @tall narwhal ?
tall narwhal
yes, one moment
scarlet sequoia
most likely is that your stats suck
dense cedar
ye
finite yarrow
whats the general play for Zaqul prog?
rigid mango
In what sense
tall narwhal
indeed, cause thats the top stat for outlaw accordign to my stat weighs 😐
wide lake
@tall narwhal in my opinion:
you don't have all the benthic and your belt is for aberation and you don't say that you fight against an aberation
your head is unfortunately crappy, bad traits :/
430 mh
dunno if your gem and enchant are perfect regarding your stuff, seems weird to me
rigid mango
Why are you linking outlaw sims in sin 
dense cedar
@rigid mango comparing them while talking in regards to assassination in particular
rigid mango
Higher main hand, inkpod better for outlaw, meh piece is much more of a loss for sin than outlaw
sullen pagoda
Ye work on ur benthic gear asap
rigid mango
Probably lackluster stats too
dense cedar
i thought inkpod was better for outlaw than sin but didn't know if that was me just being an idiot so I didn't say anything lol
tall narwhal
i can replace inkpod with harlans dice
sullen pagoda
Dice is shit
dense cedar
its not that its specifically bad for sin
rigid mango
All of the above are aight
Inkpod isn't bad
It's just not as good for sin as it is outlaw
tall narwhal
unless yuo think 440 mydas is ok 
rigid mango
Font is what you need.
tall narwhal
ah damnit
dense cedar
the way you use razor coral as outlaw compared to sin lends it to be better on them
rigid mango
Ehhhh
tall narwhal
yeah i understand
rigid mango
Sure
I mean, the main reason is because outlaw is much higher apm
More buttons = more inkpod stacks = more damage
Regardless of sync with coral
tall narwhal
im still puzzled as to which stats to go for as Assa
i know the answer is to sim it
but i thought a good mix of haste/crit/mastery is aight
uneven summit
what are people playing on orgozoa
rigid mango
Outlaw
dense cedar
I see a bunch of Triple EB + BotE from sin players
not sure if that's jsut padding tho
rigid mango
Haste and crit are the best, a decent amount of mast too but vers is better later on thanks to CLF
Triple eb blood works if you have no add damage
But it does fuckall boss damage
You're the add killer spec
lost horizon
Or play outlaw and get both
rigid mango
You do more overall for sure as sin, just debatable if worth for your raid comp
It can be better if you lack the add damage but most comps have built in cleave
sudden ocean
you can scrape past with an eb ttk build
but if you don't want RSI go outlaw
flicking your character to keep rupture times up gets old fast
shut garnet
so 3eb 3ttk would be good on that fight?
since you can fok and envenom and thats pretty much the whole fight
flat musk
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
sudden ocean
I’m not saying it’s good I’m saying it gives you an even split of add and boss damage
tropic ocean
what is good on that fight exclusively depends on your group
sudden ocean
It’s still a scuffed outlaw but other traits like np and DD aren’t hugely useful if your raid team needs you doing add damage
It’s up to the decision of your raid lead tbh
tropic ocean
I killed it as outlaw, with 3eb ss and ct
With 3 dd np
depending whether we needed st or cleave
having to turn around to dot adds is kinda annoying though with outlaw its pretty braindead
(Outlaw also has more range)
feral shuttle
The range on outlaw is strong for orgazoa, doesn't rely on perfect add placement to get dmg out.
steep obsidian
it is reliant on getting an early fluid and decent rolls though 😛
but the fluid thing is shitty for anyone
shut garnet
is unmooring whispers meant to be better than serpent loa?
loa sims just a bit higher for me 
bronze topaz
which minor essences are you playing in m+?
shut garnet
either iris/lucid or c&s/lucid? theyre best i think
green saffron
Hi, is there any other stat/trait require to run MA talent? I simmed my gearset, and difference between MA and Subterfuge is only like 0.1%.
scarlet sequoia
the difference isnt very big no
you dont want any shrouded suffocation with MA
but even without any of them theres not much of a difference
MA is best tho
green saffron
should I stick with Subterfuge if I have 1 SS trait? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3YyoE2jWFv76E2hb2g1ncN , here is my report. (simmed with chest from Blackwater: Loyal and SS)
scarlet sequoia
your azerite is really good
keep it like that
ill show you the difference for me, i have bis
moment
only ~200
green saffron
I see, only thing that bothering me is when play with Subterfuge, how do you handle vanish cd?
rigid mango
And then wait with vend to align it to 2nd vanish
green saffron
oh that is...
rigid mango
And use them together from that point
rigid mango
@bronze topaz blood M + lucid + conflict/flames
wet ruin
what is the optimal usage of blood on trash in m+
do you want it with the 3 garrotes or it doesn't really matter
rigid mango
After you've ramped
ggg rup build to 4+ rup blood > fok spam/prio or whatever the scenario is
wet ruin
so basically put the 5 bleeds for energy and use it
rigid mango
Use it when you want the dps, yeah
wet ruin
got it, thanks
rigid mango
Just like it's used on ST, you use after initial ramp and into cds
strange python
Quick question guys, I’m an orc been looking to transfer to alliance and with NE does shadowmeld give you the master assassin buff?
cobalt pelican
as long as it covers 10 seconds of empowered garrotes and you have as few maintenance globals as possible (ideally 0) during it it's pretty much fine to use however you want
if you want to 6emp garrote blood a really obnoxious pack you can and it's probably fine
shadowmeld does not give subterfuge or master assassin
i believe it works with nightstalker though that's not really relevant to this spec
cobalt pelican
yeah, the trait damage and combo points are awarded
upbeat geode
guys im getting neck 65 soon, what essence will probably sim good? so i can pre-farm rank 3
rigid mango
However, if you're not in a boss fight you can meld > stealth > reopen
Iris/conflict
Iris sims best for me, conflict better on fights where iris is bad
teal stratus
@upbeat geode conflict and strike, iris, flame
upbeat geode
zine why the hmm? which essences are you using?
cobalt pelican
i ended up doing a kr with vop minor after raid by accident
teal stratus
Oh sorry I literally just woke up @_@ just wanted to be helpful
cobalt pelican
it was ok
like every pack has something to vendetta that's not weird and useless nearly
upbeat geode
your 2nd opinion is appreciated trad ❤
teal stratus
Oh and protocol rank 3 for pluses is also 👌
blissful storm
@scarlet sequoia did you gamble or cumulate 200k for those shoulders?
scarlet sequoia
gamble hell yeah
scarlet sequoia
i also rolled 3 times
blissful storm
I am Forsen's son
cobalt pelican
kinda getting to the point where i feel like rolling head
blissful storm
ah well maybe at 4th time I will get it
cobalt pelican
cause i'm never looting a trophy and if i get garbage it might be at least useful for another spec
teal stratus
Well yeah CS is probably better just a question if he has rank 3 CS, just giving more options
cobalt pelican
playing with just goggles and gambling shoulders every week for something useless is depressing
rigid mango
I cba with trophies
cobalt pelican
i want irontide woo
rigid mango
I want irontide/flashpowder
rigid mango
Try
desert vault
I want flash powder. Do Blackwater and gold laced shoulders with flash. 450s on 2/2/2 would be sweet
rigid mango
Irontide is just like, objectivly better than flashpowder though
I'll take either to get off 420 helm though
desert vault
Is it as, ttk and eb?
desert vault
Oh, is OP worth using much in M+ on Tyrannical weeks?
desert vault
Oh? Ok. I've been running the crit one, unstable flames I think, most weeks
desert vault
My crit is kind of low for m+, only lik3 38% so I need all I can get
shut garnet
what are the best trinkets for m+ with a 2/2/2 setup
i have a socketted font and coral but im not sure how good they are in m+
dark crag
Coral is ok, font is wierd to useless
"Ok, wait with next pack until i finished my channel" tank charges in, you get infight and no stealth
bleak spoke
you don't get into combat if you hang back
but that being said i hecking hate using font in keys
desert vault
I need some socketed gear for m+, don't think I have a single piece ... bunch of 445s though
I just run spyglass/coral most weeks
bleak spoke
spyglass/coral feels pretty nice
desert vault
Sometimes I mess with Font on tyrannical and dungeons with annoying bosses
bleak spoke
spyglass plumage also feels pretty nice still
it's less... committed than the font i guess
desert vault
I need to stop using Coral on CD in M+, just lazy
bleak spoke
yeah i'm not sure how to use it properly in keys with sin
severe sedge
is it woth to play assa in m+ if my best azerite is 3 eb rest crap or 2 eb/1ss/1 ttk
desert vault
I run low keys, so stuff dies to fast to do much else
bleak spoke
3 eb is fine
desert vault
I think you Coral on a target, once it dies you Coral the next target or something
bleak spoke
yeh
desert vault
I just smash it on CD and move on 🙂
bleak spoke
but like
severe sedge
if i play 3 eb, do i still garrote on cd?
bleak spoke
you shouldn't garrote when you're not coming out of stealth in aoe
desert vault
Just get 4-5 bleeds up and that is about it, keep 4-5 running
bleak spoke
regardless of eb
severe sedge
os just spam eb and keep some dots up for energy and spam env?
severe sedge
mind checking my gear?
desert vault
if you are running 3x EB you don't envenom all that often, yeah
desert vault
I just envenom when I'm trying to put some priority damage down on a target
bleak spoke
doesnt save your paste unless you sim something
bleak spoke
i think i want to find a moment of balance where the crit buff is effective on a pack but not before its too late @desert vault
oh
no no no
desert vault
@bleak spoke Yeah it is tricky, I dont run much above a 15 so I don't think it matters too much
severe sedge
thats what i asked 😛
bleak spoke
you want a shrouded and you want to play subterfuge
sorry that was unclear
the most important thing is to have a shrouded
severe sedge
one is ok?
bleak spoke
otherwise you can't get your energy started
yeah
you want the effectt from it basically
severe sedge
guess ill go with the blackweater chest
bleak spoke
to explain the play pattern
severe sedge
over 445 gore splattered?
bleak spoke
in aoe you want to start out of stealth and garrote three different targets
and then rupture the target that has the highest prio
and with 4 bleeds rolling you can spam fok
basically you want to, over the life of a pull, convert the garrotes into ruptures so you never fall under 4 rolling dots at a time
and you want to fill every other global with fan of knives or with envenom on priority targets
that's the "template" basically
you end up picking up more EB traits to do more pure AOE, you take TTK traits to do more priority damage
and you take more SS for upfront burst
but the more SS you have the more stealth reliant you are
stat procs are okay (crit is good, mastery is fine)
damage procs aren't good (undulating, etc)
rigid mango
4 bleeds and 11% haste
bleak spoke
if you don't have 11% haste you need 5 bleeds
but i'm going to assume you do from your gear
distant lava
I dont
rigid mango
distant lava
Why 11% haste 
severe sedge
at 22% in raid gear
bleak spoke
you should just wear all your sockets
severe sedge
så 11 will be no problemo
bleak spoke
looking at your gear
distant lava
Yea but I thought for m+ you only picked crit and mastery
bleak spoke
@distant lava you want 11% because with 4 bleeds up at 11% from ven wounds you end up with just enough E regen to get 35 energy per global, which is the cost of fok and env
it's actually something like 11.1 or 11.2 i think but uh, lucid, rupture etc all make it energy positive
severe sedge
so i can drop 10% for some crit or mastery
bleak spoke
yeah i recommend just wearing all your sockets
distant lava
Interesting 
bleak spoke
most of your socketed stuff look pretty high quality stats wise
distant lava
But it feels akward
arctic walrus
Loyal and UT 
bleak spoke
i'd use the 435 mantle with ss ttk
huh, with your setup i wouldn't actually run any EB but like
that's kinda custom
idk
bleak spoke
yeah sin is hard with your setup
arctic walrus
Simming sin for m+ 
arctic walrus
Yikes man these options
bleak spoke
Yeah I’d just play outlaw in keys if I were you
You’ve got some nice pieces for outlaw
severe sedge
boored of outlaw tho
but i guess ill stay outlaw
and hope for some better azeritw
bleak spoke
Circlet frothing rage reverent is 3 ace 2 deadshot wits it’s very strong
You’re not going to be able to make a better sin setup from what you have
Compared to that
rigid mango
Sin needs very specific shit
novel cargo
So I’ve just joined a guild going into mythic, my damage isn’t a problem, just curious at to what the best way for sin to pull on behemoth is. I’ve been starting with drop dots on boss, pick up buff when avail, shadow step, into combo/vanish. What can I do to improve this?
bleak spoke
Idk depends how fast your guild kills puffer
My guild murders it
Like I can’t even go dot the boss on pull
bleak spoke
I’m probably wrong actually my behemoth parses are kinda yikes
arctic walrus
You open normally with just a rupture and no cds
novel cargo
Yea it feels lacklustre to me too, hence me asking
bleak spoke
Man it looks like your Pikachu is mocking me vel 
arctic walrus
cobalt pelican
as a random question would you gamers play a 430 deadeyes or a 440 dice
arctic walrus
Spyglasssss
rigid mango
dice
bleak spoke
Spyglass
bleak spoke
But the spyglass feels good
rigid mango
bleak spoke
Dice feels nonexistent
arctic walrus
Is spyglass better on St than aoe
arctic walrus
Yes
rigid mango
Spyglass is better for aoe
arctic walrus
Oh the buff isn't exclusive to one target?
bleak spoke
It is but fok procs it
rigid mango
Since you don't get random haste procs
arctic walrus
Aka multiple instances of crit?
cobalt pelican
i have 5 socketed 430+ rings and none of them are anything except haste/vers and haste/mastery
very sad
bleak spoke
It just stacks instantly
rigid mango
Yeah tell me about it fairy
bleak spoke
And you get the crit for whole duration
bleak spoke
Socketed mythic court ring and socketed shrine ring for aoe for me 
arctic walrus
Stuck with Mecha rings 
rigid mango
ofc good wcm
bleak spoke
I have a 445 wcm ring but no socket
rigid mango
F ring
bleak spoke
Life is hard for ring slots
bleak spoke
What is a band of the roving scalawag
arctic walrus
I feel bad for your bag space
arctic walrus
At least it's filled with useful things
bleak spoke
Useful
arctic walrus
I have a whole bag designated to little flavor items
bleak spoke
There’s 415 azerite in there
arctic walrus
And old stuff
cobalt pelican
it's pvp azerite just incase god showers me with upgrade tokens okay
i can't scrap it.. yet.. maybe..
i'm not hoarding i swear
cobalt pelican
my bank is just full of crimson ink from uldir still i should make a bank alt or something
but ya roving scalawag is
alliance version
of whatever siege ring is for horde
i didn't even know they had different names
but apparently they do
bleak spoke
i also have a hording problem https://i.imgur.com/dFea4Uv.png
desert vault
I want a dang socketed Shrine ring
rigid mango
Fucking hate rings
desert vault
I've got a 455 siege ring, no socket, but still want a Court socketed ring with all that sweet crit on it
cobalt pelican
i've only done 2 shrine keys this tier so i guess i can't complain about a lack of ring luck
desert vault
I've done ... 3 maybe, someone traded me a 430 of it, so its meh, it is something at least
rigid mango
Done 9
I mean, I've not grinded it
but I've gotten two of the vanilla 440's from my weekly
desert vault
I don't even really know what dungeon to grind honestly ...
rigid mango
desert vault
I need better legs, gloves, have a 445 crit cloak, no gem slot of course
Atal for legs, FH for boots, then not sure for hands, maybe KR or something
sudden ocean
Just get mecha rings then you don’t need to keep any other rings
cobalt pelican
there is a droptimizer for m+ but you can more or less just go through the dungeon journal
sudden ocean
5head
cobalt pelican
and find things you want
cobalt pelican
i crafted like
15 lw boots
and ended up just keeping 96 crit 126 vers
cause i was sick of paying 50g for dredged leather
bleak spoke
cobalt pelican
jeez
desert vault
I don't know if the mecha rings would out do my current ones or not, the 455 siege crit/haste is nice, but the haste is meh
sudden ocean
Mecha rings big pog
desert vault
They are nice for sure, just need some WF/TF prolly
bleak spoke
i need to zoom out farther for some dungeons 
rigid mango
It's funny though
the only time I do shrine keys
is when I boost and I'd have to trade those rings away
so I don't want to do shrine anymore 
desert vault
heh
I don't like Shrine, ever. This week is so-so, the dumb bursting on the little mob guys is annoying
have to pull them so slowly
rigid mango
Shrine is honestly not that bad anymore
bleak spoke
ever just https://i.imgur.com/7yzr2pF.png
bleak spoke
YES
rigid mango
You know how many he's done? I know.
bleak spoke
lets do ti
dark crag
Can you sort it by keylevel pls?
tropic scroll
Hello people. Have some struggle to improve my dps . Did anyone have some tips for me?
sudden ocean
Open ended question my guy
solid nova
Link your logs, theres a good tip 
rigid mango
You're gonna have to link anything
sudden ocean
Ok I’ll go with what I have
tropic scroll
here our last log on ashavane https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Gvj2mBn4fhHxPkN7#fight=27&source=183
cobalt pelican
i see a poison knife
rigid mango
That too.
verbal knot
Is poison knife okay if you aren't on boss? like trying to break corals?
rigid mango
http://prntscr.com/p29w4t this just seems awkward
sudden ocean
No there should never be a need to poison knife other than doing arcing azerite
sudden ocean
And you should be flush to the boss for that anyway as melee get closest ones
rigid mango
If not, you don't PK
sudden ocean
PK is solely for extended mechanics in which it’s not feasible to return to the boss
Ashvane doesn’t have any of those mechanics if you play the arcing like you should
verbal knot
I imagine ideally you wait till the time is down to a couple seconds, sprint into position, then back?
sudden ocean
Yes
verbal knot
I am doing ashvane progression tonight so
rigid mango
How much do you play sin @tropic scroll
marble elm
Minimizing time away from boss is what you always want to do
sudden ocean
Even then melee should get prio on closest one
When I get arcing and have to move I usually drop an envenom before I leave and am back before my energy caps or my dp drops
It’s forward planning
tropic scroll
@rigid mango like long time but i havent rly try to improve since some week
rigid mango
You keep on popping tb and using a mutilate directly after
in your cd window
When what abilities you use in tb actually matters a lot
sudden ocean
Tb should always be followed by a 4-5 cp envenom
rigid mango
You want to be going into cds with 3+ cp
sudden ocean
There’s no if buts or maybes
rigid mango
being able to go tb > vanish > env
and building and spending as much as possible in that window
sudden ocean
Ideally 2-3 envenom
At 4-5cp in that window
Especially on ashvane as it’s the closest boss to Parchwerk in the tier and allows you a good chance to practice your windows
tropic scroll
so in all case better to delay a bit and take the time to make the good bursting windows with 3+cp tb vanish
sudden ocean
Overwealming barrage 
sudden ocean
Just be lucky like me and never get bubble or arcing so ashvane is patchers
Yes you want to pool for big Tb windows
As long as you don’t lose envenom buff uptime substantially
You can keep that up and have about 120-140 energy going into a Tb window if you manage it properly
tropic scroll
and on ashvane what the best from your experience. CD at open or CD after first shield?
sudden ocean
Haste is high enough now to allow for it
Whatever your raid lead tells you
It’s at their discretion
Because those two methods are two different strategies
sudden ocean
Big send
tropic scroll
ok. Last question. Orgo mythic sin mono or sin knife or outlaw? 🙂
sudden ocean
Outlaw is preferred
You have to work very hard or pad relentlessly to make sin work
bleak spoke
gosh these toxic blade windows are so cute
strange python
question about siming for ashara. I've been trying to see what is generally shared in 1 boss sims and 2 boss sims with variants in times. Does anyone know a pretty standard way to sim for ashara since first couple min is dbl boss, then some adds and ST on Ashara?
Been fucking around a lot pulling my hair out
scarlet sequoia
single target
sudden ocean
Why do you need to sim it is my first question
I’d sim ST but the fight has huge downtime
strange python
true
sudden ocean
It’s really not feasible to sim it against any of the available sim options
strange python
Trying to find the right variance in time, since it changes my gear somewhat good amounts
sudden ocean
I’d check your current projected kill time against logs of similar kill times
And draw a very rough consensus off that
tropic scroll
thank's guys for you answer . will come more often.
verbal knot
Just don't feel bad when they call you an idiot. It just made me want to do better lol
west trench
On org is it worth running scent of blood or should I just keep my loyal to the end.
white forum
As far as gambling with residum goes which of the three azerite pieces have a better chance of a good roll for Mythic+ traits
fleet whale
shoulders have a piece called pistoleer's shoulders that have SS/EB/Unstable flames
rigid mango
vast forum
shrine is best for padding as assa
cosmic pier
only 2 EB 
vast forum
or outlaw for that matter
rigid mango
Why would you want more than 2 eb though