on outlaw my sim gives me 41k and with sin i get 38k is it worth the change?
#assassination
small belfry
cobalt pelican
5min fight length?
rigid mango
I mean, that's such a tiny gain even for S2 shit
I would've honestly thought the sims fuu was going off of were showing bigger diff than 800 dps
Esp when you're comparing s2 and s3 pulls
vestal wren
huh?
cobalt pelican
isn't fuu's script just adds only
so it's like dungeonslice minus the 2 min boss fight
i know there's a couple of different scripts
vestal wren
depends what version you use
cobalt pelican
no idea which is being used here
modest tendon
do you still value that dungeon slice sim fuu?
vestal wren
its a diffrent approach
fleet whale
there are some bosses where EB isn't completely dead, like the giant snake in ToS
vestal wren
its might the closest to what dungeon slice represents
modest tendon
i tend to average 42k dps in dungoens
cobalt pelican
better overall damage and worse for the group are often the same thing on boss fights where eb is usable
vestal wren
as its based on the pack size probabilities for all dungeons excluding trivial packs
cobalt pelican
the amount of gamers you see fokking rhaal (myself included) is quite high
vestal wren
so, i would say its probably atm the closest to representing m+
fleet whale
snake adds though come in intermissions, so there isn't much more you can do on there
rigid mango
Isn't that s2 shit though fuu?
excluding priority damage and pull sizes of emmisary stuff?
vestal wren
the statistic was from late s2 iirc so yes
the pulls are from s2
but it does not include the affix from either season so its rather nautral
rigid mango
Sounds like a deceptive thing to use
Just like dslice
Too wrong to base an opinion off of
vestal wren
not sure i agree on your point
rigid mango
You mean it entirely excludes the main mechanic of the season?
shut garnet
is it down to the tank mostly how much dps you do in a dungeon as assa? as stupid as it sounds if he goes about things one pack of 3 at a time i normally manage 30k but the second you get a tank that knows how to do big pulls 42ks happen 
rigid mango
vestal wren
the only argument you could possibly bring is that the pulls differ as of the diffrence in %tages
lethal heart
@rigid mango that's why all of the top m+ players go with their own experiences because sims are never gonna be right for dungeons
rigid mango
I don't think I can see how that is close to an accurate representation for the season
I know, so do I
lethal heart
i only advice people to do
3-4-5-6 target sims for 40 seconds
and st 2-3 minutes
thats the 2 best type scenarios you can sim
and judge upon that
most of the stuff
vestal wren
to be fair i doubt you would be satisfied with any solution you could come up
rigid mango
I just think using sims like these are super super disingenous and misleading for the general population
vestal wren
rigid mango
I don't think any sims can accuratly prove a dungeon, no
lethal heart
it's just too dynamic enviroment
rigid mango
Hence, not basing opinions off of them
It's like trying to do an experiment if the variables are moving
It's inaccurate fro the start, even before you apply your own methods
vestal wren
i feel like i shouldnt have to repeat that every time,
but simc is a tool to help you analyze stuff and evolve your gameplay.
dark crag
Does the dungeon sim accounts for restealths?
lethal heart
and i think dungeon slice even tho flawed is still good enough tool for mots people
tropic ocean
@shut garnet its mostly down to your own adaption to whats happening
if we talk details dps
lethal heart
i just wanna raise awareness
it's nice having people that are aware and using your tools smartly is very important
tropic ocean
assa is super good for 3-4 mob cleave too i usually go 35-45k on most dungeons
rigid mango
I just dislike people basing their opinions solely off of numbers that aren't an accurate representation of what they're doing
tropic ocean
and higher if tank is really pulling big
vestal wren
the issue you go on about is the question itself.
what is best in m+ has no universal answer so... its not simc its rather the question thats the problem
shut garnet
but theres nothing an assa rogue can do to get 50k dps on a pack of 3
dark crag
I mean a dungeon sim will never be like a real dungeon, but st sims are most of the time the same
lethal heart
maybe you're right fuu ye
tropic ocean
best i had was 55k on teeming fort
fleet whale
i mean DD technically sims higher than TTK in dungeonslice, yet no assassination rogue would ever take DD over TTK, just can't look at raw numbers all the time
shut garnet
whereas going multiple packs of 6-7 you can FoK ur way to 80ks
and then only do around 35-40 on bosses to "balance" the maths out
and you end up doing 45k-50
right?
lethal heart
maybe a very stupid example but to show an example of wrongly going by experience
shut garnet
what kind of gear have you got 
rigid mango
I just run standard 2/2/2
lethal heart
maybe you had experiences where you played as outlaw with alacrity and you always lost alacrities in between packs becuase idk, someone always died + tank being slow about pulling
shut garnet
all 445?
dark crag
Isn't it possible to make a dungeon sim were you can set the pullcounts your self?
lethal heart
thats obv very bad but that doesnt mean alacrity is bad talent
its just playstyle/mistakes of your grp that makes it weak
lost horizon
@dark crag like a modular dungeon slice? That'd be sick
rigid mango
My helm is 420 @shut garnet
lethal heart
you could do that to certain extent tho
if you go pull by pull patchwerk sims with/without cds
fleet whale
i think it's funny that Champion of Azeroth ranks highly on hero damage yet there are only like two pieces in the game that has that trait, and the max ilvl is 360
dark crag
Yeah, like you can choose different sizes. Like 5to6 3to4 and such
Example 4x 40 sec 4to5, 2x 1.5to2min bossfight. Should give a good general gearset for a dungeon
In the end it doesn't really matter for most people
small belfry
u guys do 30k and 40k dps un dungeons with how mutch ilvl?
vast forum
i do 55-65k as assa at 438
small belfry
overall ??
im feeling like crap so mutch or im def with my fingers xDD
stil got no luck finding a raid to share the combat log, evryone on classic...
arctic walrus
You can lfr
vestal wren
@dark crag i would not say so, assassination has quite some room for improvements
moving the discussion here, bc. its better fitting
TB is a very boring cd, its easy to replace it with a more appealing one f.ex.
dark crag
From legion to bfa sub and outlaw got changes, what changed for assa besides numbers?
vestal wren
the loss of kingsbane was the most noticable change
kingsbane was better then TB even tho the use only was reasonable for a short time
and then defaulted back to "on cd"
dark crag
Masterassassin as a talent
Assa's core is nearly the same like ever. Sub lost half an expansion worth playstyle and outlaw got better with every rtb change + aoe burst bf charges instead of toggle
vestal wren
assassination was having the lowest changes coming into bfa
it was also the only spec that felt decently well in the beginning
dark crag
And i fear blizz will brake assa with 9.0 if they don't focus full on range rework sub
arctic walrus
Most things got baked into azerite/talents, so not much changed, just moved around
gray pond
What is BiS azerite gears Helm/Shoulder/Chest for raid?
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
arctic walrus
Zaqul helm/gorak tul/blackwater with 4 loyal
rigid mango
Zaq helm - goraks - blackwater/cepha
vestal wren
isnt loyal's power somewhat dependent on your group
not saying its a bad choice, but it can depent
rigid mango
Hence "with 4 loyal"
arctic walrus
Realistically you'll have more than 4 loyals as well, so you have a bit of leeway
dark crag
Vigor assa haste outlaw is too fast, i got myself some bte traits to go deeper
rigid mango
Loyal is insane
seeing as how it sims higher than cepha with 4t
and that's without a death
gray pond
What is second best for helm. I mean buyable with TR
vestal wren
ye loyal def. gains a lot value if you have enough users
rigid mango
Slithering loa
lost horizon
If you have deaths at good times it's nasty
dark crag
Why isn't loyal common in pugs? So many people dying left and right
vestal wren
probably bc. ppl dont use higher loyal counts int he sim to evaluate
lost horizon
Default is 0 so, yeah probably
vestal wren
kinda either not knowing better or not wanting to depend on your group
lost horizon
There's also those specs that just don't benefit from the mastery enough to be worth
vestal wren
not entirely sure about that
unless the stat is useless you get quite some, what can makes it even as bad stat worth
kind of like op for subtlety f.ex.
lost horizon
I meant for like Shadow priest, pretty sure it wouldn't be worth for them
Or outlaw if we're talking rogue only
vestal wren
those 2 might be the ones where mastery is "terrible"
iron heath
Thanks again for the help
Character:
Author: @iron heath
Updated: 56 minutes ago.
Character: Brandx (US-Magtheridon)
**Spec & Class: **Assassination Rogue
**Equipped ilvl: **432
Azerite Essences: Condensed Life-Force (Rank 3), Memory of Lucid Dreams (Rank 3)
Custom Options:
Stat Scaling: Enabled
Simulation:
Report: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/21KMNhGD2hDkmJnCmTs7dh
DPS: 40,859
Elapsed Time: 04:46.
Pawn String:( Pawn: v1: "Brandx - Assassination (Raidbots)": Class=Rogue, Spec=Assassination, Agility=2.72, CritRating=4.61, HasteRating=4.81, MasteryRating=4.36, Versatility=4.5, Dps=13.41, OffHandDps=1.48 )
Picked up nearly 2000 DPS
small belfry
Guys how I unlcok the mission for rank 2 lucid dreams ? On google only says lor themar gives the quest in nazjatar
iron heath
What’s that ?
quasi pewter
R2 lucid is 2000 bodyguard exp i believe
rigid mango
r2 is 2k, r3 is 6k iirc
fleet whale
and rank 4 is level 30 for each follower
small belfry
ok ok ty guys «3
and stil no luck in lf raid, i see on raider.io people use blood of enemy is it better than iris for m+ ?
rigid mango
Yeah, a lot
rigid mango
It's correcty
Does more damage at 2t+
Although muti is more consistant CP gain
So I normally muti at 0-2 cp, fok at 3 and finish at 4
but that's feely, and dependant on what you need
long anchor
Okay thank you. Despite having EB I've still been casting mutilate as my generator even up to 3 targets
rigid mango
fok at 2+ with eb, 3+ with nothing, 4/5+ with dd
fleet whale
is BBI viable for M+?
rigid mango
It is, yeah
fleet whale
it seems quite powerful, but i guess if you would really want to use it, you would need two pairs of Gorak Tul's shoulders
rigid mango
Huh?
fleet whale
gorak tul's mantle is the only piece that has that trait, not counting the WQ ones
rigid mango
So?
fleet whale
and since it's also bis for raid using DD, you would want another one to put ss on it
rigid mango
Or just reforge?
fleet whale
could get expensive
rigid mango
It's really not expensive.
Really isn't if you don't reforge like a dummy
I reforge 1/2 pieces each week and I've never gone any high apart from orgozoa
arctic walrus
finish raiding for the week, reforge for m+ and get your keys done, by the time tuesday rolls around reforge is down
fleet whale
plus it's more convenient imo to have multiple pieces of gear and not having to reforge
arctic walrus
I mean just because something is inconvenient doesn't mean it's not the best
cobalt pelican
just get 2 goraks 4hlead
grrrrrrrrrr
if only sanguines were the bisserest i'd have 1 pair for every spec
arctic walrus
Oh nono 
fleet whale
i already have pistoleer's shoulders but i might try a M+ run with gorak's sometime in the future
modest tendon
how much haste is needed for infinite energy regeneration on 2 targets?
rigid mango
Way too much
modest tendon
i can get to 14% and maintain 39% crit but i cant get any higher without loosing way too much crit 😦
rigid mango
Oh I mean like
You'd be needing obscene amounts
With 33% ish I can sustain 3 bleeds ish
modest tendon
but you get 4 bleeds on two targets right?
modest tendon
is it for sure though? i was hitting two training dummies and i definitely had a bit of downtime between mutilates
rigid mango
That's granted you're fok spamming, I think
rigid mango
It's assuming you're not using muti since you're in an m+ env most likely
I'd assume, anyways
modest tendon
so if you were using that on a double boss like teh council of captains you would be only using fok as your builder?
interesting
rigid mango
I'd still muti at 0-2 cp and fok at 3, finish 4+ imo
Realistically you'll probably get a good amount of lucid procs anyways
OP, etc
small belfry
!abb
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue abbreviations: http://www.ravenholdt.net/rogue-abbreviations/
ocean urchin
hey guys if running master assassin should i enter second vendetta/vanish window with 4/5 combo points to envenom right away?
(i have 0 shrouded suffo)
rigid mango
Yah
ocean urchin
yeah thats what i thought ty
scarlet sequoia
np
lean veldt
anyone have suggestions on what/how many azurite traits for PVP i should use?
or know where to find that info... icy veins says shrouded suff at top, but no idea if i just need 1 copy, or 3.
rigid mango
#pvp is for pvp related questions
You'll find they know more than most here, since this is mostly a pve channel 😄
lean veldt
ty
inner wedge
Are essences calculated correctly on raidbots? simming shows results very different from top dpsers on warcraftlogs
rigid mango
What do you mean
inner wedge
Particularly talking about Zakul and puri essence
rigid mango
In what sense
major and 1 minor are locked in for zaqul
It's only about the third slot, which all seems to be fairly close
inner wedge
So which would you say are locked?
rigid mango
Bote major, vision minor
Specifically on zaqul, those are locked granted you're doing echos
on mythic
inner wedge
Well, you can survive without it
rigid mango
If you're doing echos, you'd want that setup
The third slot you can run a bit of everything, lucid is quite nice for vers + healing proc downstairs
Or PP if you want some more damage 
inner wedge
I don't have 3rd lvl of vision
marble elm
If you are playing vop you should probably take lucid also if you are 65
marble elm
You only need r1
inner wedge
Seems like such a waste:)
arctic walrus
if you want to pad and parse high, yeah you shouldn't be doing down in the first place
rigid mango
^
arctic walrus
oh never noticed
marble elm
After your first kill you can gauge if you should swap from vision
But you should play it for progression
Especially with 65
rigid mango
There's just no reason not to, really
If you're going echos it seems like a nobrainer for prog
marble elm
Well ours was getting overkilled by a lot
I still played it
But not for any kills after
Our 2nd delirium echo died before the fear echo
marble elm
Definitely for progression
true nexus
is it worth opening on one boss on queens court to set up both bleeds
and then step to the main boss
youre supposed to be hitting
inner wedge
Which CDs use use on first echo and which on second one?
rigid mango
You want to be able to use vend + bote on both
inner wedge
@true nexus From my exp I just hit Guy for the dration n vendetta and then multidot
@rancid citruse and coral I'd say but not Azshara trink right?
rigid mango
Close to pinging me
arctic walrus
I wouldn't run azshara on that fight regardless
rigid mango
coral + inkpod are both good
arctic walrus
go inkpod if you have
arctic walrus
oh yeah maybe nowadays that's worthwhile
rigid mango
And it works with just using on pull + delirium downtime
arctic walrus
I wouldn't know
rigid mango
It wasn't when we were doing the standard waiting for overlap strat
that I wish we were still doing
inner wedge
No inkpod
scarlet sequoia
hey i got rank 1 on zaqul
rigid mango
scarlet sequoia
so what you wanna do is run iris major
arctic walrus
I knew you were gonna come here and say it
rigid mango
Raz, trolling in spec channels 
arctic walrus
Yeah listen to this guy
cobalt pelican
i am the best
marble elm
What you wanna do is as simple as garrote 1, garrote 2, garrote 3
scarlet sequoia
rupture 4
untold current
So if I understand it, the concensus is to run BOTE, Vision, lucid on Zaq if doing the delerium realms?
marble elm
40 fucking k
untold current
with pref a Coral + inkpod
scarlet sequoia
yeah
you just wanna have vendetta for both echoes as far as i know, i dont go delirium on zaqul, but 99% sure thats the plan
arctic walrus
vanish first pot second
scarlet sequoia
probably agility pot then or
marble elm
I also extracted Coral on first dmg amp and then saved my 2nd one for the 2nd add
With bote I had 100% crit exactly
Approximately
arctic walrus
approximately 100% crit exactly 
rigid mango
untold current
This is honestly the best spec discord
scarlet sequoia
thanks
arctic walrus
No, Honestly is an oce guild, not a spec discord you're mistaken
scarlet sequoia
try not to get starstruck
true nexus
might be a dumb question but
is lucid major out of the question for zaqul downstairs
leech plus extra energy to spend with the haste? lol
rigid mango
Yes, it's wastee
Downstairs you're already GCD capped, lucid major might be the worst possible choice 
scarlet sequoia
u dont need energy when u have 80% haste
tropic ocean
@untold current i just use font cuz u can nicely channel it for add
shut garnet
imagine having bote r3 or neck lv65 
i cant
crisp hollow
what essences do you run for M+ as sin if not BOTE?
rigid mango
Iris
rigid mango
But bote is truly miles ahead
crisp hollow
27k/50k for me
one day maybe
next 2x honor week probably
oh wow
october
maybe not
is it against the rules to pay a younger family member to do them
rigid mango
Sorta slavery innit
crisp hollow
yeah but thats what they get for being born later than I was
in reality I will mostly afk through BGs on my laptop while in class
and just scumbag my honor in +200 increments
fleet whale
should have done this a few weeks ago with bg week
lost wharf
Can u afk tho? I mean completly afk? So you could write a bot and leave your PC running over night? Asking for a friend.
fleet whale
you'll probably get booted from each bg run you do
lost wharf
By players or by the afk system?
crisp hollow
all you gotta do is be in stealth and autorun
occaisonally tab back in and change direction
between lecture slides i think its doable, but the gains are minimal
fleet whale
i really don't get why you guys are trying to find ways to avoid this though, it really isn't that bad
true nexus
you pay attention in class?
fleet whale
like 50k honor is just about 6 honor levels
lost wharf
I hate PvP, most boring shit ever.
Open world is fun where you can actually kill ppl. But coordinating with a bunch of pug members is a pain.
crisp hollow
i dont mind the actual grind component its more that my free time from Tuesday onward is cut into about a quarter of what it is now
so outside of raid time I want to be doing keys or content I like
being on vacation for the last honor week was rough but thats life haha
lost wharf
The honor grind doesn't work in arena, does it?
lost wharf
Yikes. I could at least try to get the 1k rating for the other essence
It's so dumb to force this PvP shit on PvE players...
crisp hollow
1k for conflict and strife is a joke
and you should be capping conquest every week for AP
lost wharf
"LooK, peOpLe aRe PlayInG pVP!"
fleet whale
honestly i really don't think it's that bad, players really should try to broaden their horizons
crisp hollow
i actually have a lot of fun in arenas at the 1500-1600 range
higher and it gets annoying tho
lost wharf
I don't wanna broaden my horizons, I wanna play the parts of the game that are fun to me and not be bothered with PvP shit Idc about.
fleet whale
and if BoTE wasn't obtained via pvp, it would be something else that would annoy players
lost wharf
The grind for the Mechagon essence was a pain. However I did it, because it was easy and not as annoying.
Random BGs are the LFR of PvP. At least that what it feels like. Except that for LFR I can afk auto attack the boss w/o being kicked or probably w/o even dying.
fleet whale
and besides, idk what else the requirement for BoTE could be, considering all the other essence acquisitions cover all other bases
fleet whale
rank 3 makes it significantly better
lost wharf
Idc what they do. Make it a second raid essence. Make it buyable with nazjatar pearls or spare parts. Drop mats in M+ instead of just the weekly chest for it, make it farmable in the world like flowers or ore.
Or make it only work in PvP
crisp hollow
or
and get this
you don't have to like everything they put in the game
it sucks for me too but i'm sure there's people who like having actual reason to do other content
also if they tied it to more dailies I'd probably hate it more
lost wharf
That's why I said just make it useless in PvE. I don't mind ppl having fun and different builds in PvP aslong as they leave me alone with it.
fleet whale
that would probably anger a lot of players though, since it is actually a satisfying essence to use
and it's not even that great for pvp
lost wharf
Then swap it. Give PvP players the baseline crucible of flame which they use quite often as far as I know and make the bote one a basic one.
There are a million solutions to the problem, but the main reason (I think) they didn't apply them is, that they wanted to keep some pvp players playing so they threw in some PvE garbage like me for them to feed on.
drifting cloud
stop crying about it in assa channel, you dont even need it in raid
its just situationaly better on like 2 bosses by a super small margin
lost wharf
Ofc you don't need it. You don't need anything ever. Why play the game even? And it's not just raid but m+ too and not just assa but other specs/classes aswell.
fleet whale
BoTE as the first essence wouldn't make sense, crucible is a basic damage cannon button hence why you get it first
drifting cloud
be happy it got nerfed into oblivion, otherwise it would have been giga bis
fleet whale
would take it over the dumb elemental
fleet whale
hopefully blizz nerfs rock boi next patch
and makes a new essence that's a lot cooler
distant mist
Or buff old essences and make cooler ones
fleet whale
nah, i could see them adding a new raid essence, blizz doesn't like it when players feel forced to run older content
untold current
Do you rupture the adds on org and pump boss?
mythic
I guess it depends on how fast they go down
crisp hollow
i think most people go outlaw for mythic org but yeah probably just use adds for energy gen
tropic ocean
I rup adds
Build with fok and funnel into boss
Guess it depends somewhat on roster dps
We only passively kill adds
To improve st
tropic ocean
iron wire is overall the best choice imo
Dmg reduction and increased silence on 3 mobs is very strong
lean veldt
and still use memory of lucid?
tropic ocean
y vigor
lean veldt
tyt
fleet whale
so i see that some sin rogues are taking C&S as their second minor for ST raid bosses?
sudden ocean
Which ones
There's two reasons you'll see a lot of top log players using C&S over focused energy, it's fight times around 3 mins meaning haste doesn't have a chance to be super useful, or in situations where your energy intake is so good you don't need the hate provided by Focused Energy
fleet whale
number 2 and 3 on M Sivarra are using C&S
sudden ocean
Yeah look at the fight time
3 mins 10 seconds, you've got nearly 1/3 of the fight where haste is doing sweet FA due to lust
fleet whale
yeah but pretty much all of the top ten are killing her in the same timeframe, and they aren't using C&S
arctic walrus
And pretty much all the rogues on any fight are using iris minor except for 2-3
Some people have probably higher haste values than some, and opt for the vers on c/s
fleet whale
and i suppose not everyone even has C&S rank 3
arctic walrus
no that's not really it
sudden ocean
It's players doing what's best for their characters, not what everyone else on the logs are doing
fleet whale
hmm i see... I thought flames would be the one you would use if you weren't gonna using Iris minor
sudden ocean
Don't forget that on very quick fights with haste rolling for a good duration, versa becomes very potent
arctic walrus
it's the same
low junco
rather than "oh this works better than this, i should play with it"
doesnt flame minor comes down to like
procs or some shit
idk
sudden ocean
yes
fleet whale
yeah, flames has more rng to it
sudden ocean
so a big versa pump, especially in a lust opener fight is big
low junco
^
versa works good with rogues
🙂
tfw people talking about 2nd minor and i havent reached 65 yet
fleet whale
im about 30% through 64
fleet whale
it will be really easy to get really soon
low junco
decent 98-99 logs
tbh if i get a 65 i think
i might 100 log ashvane
i almost did when nobody had 65 but then there was this alliance who got it
gear's pretty decent
sudden ocean
when do you start to lose rating again, 1400?
sudden ocean
should be easy to get C&S 3, hit 1400 get 3 a week
fleet whale
yeah, i was challenger last week, got 5 of those things, now im at 1589....
sudden ocean
can cap conq on supply caches alone
fleet whale
just need one more win
and yeah, C&S imo isn't as "bad" as BoTE 3, even if it's timegated
unless if you hit glad and get it in one week lol
sudden ocean
I'd be squaring away all rank 3 essences for next tier anyway
fleet whale
even ripple in space?
low junco
i cant make myself to log in to wow to do the weekly m+
and ur planning on doing smth like that 
sudden ocean
We don't talk about ripple in space
fleet whale
only time i could even see that being semi useful is if blizz makes another fight like M KJ, where mobility stuff like that is actually very important
but even still, it would prob be better for immobile healers in that situation
fleet whale
does it look cool?
fleet whale
what do you have to do
low junco
open 25 chests in nazjatar while being an assassin
i think fleks got it like 1 month ago
sudden ocean
I'm a velf anyway so ripple is pepega
drifting cloud
rank 4 ripple is pretty easy tbh
only hard part about it is the 20min cd between when you can open chests
sudden ocean
I still haven't done kill players in mecha because OCE is so onesided
drifting cloud
you just cant die because you lose it
and if youre afking you gotta be careful if you become a bounty so you just relog :d
fierce pivot
Whats better for the 2nd minor for raiding, Blood of the Enemy or Focusing Iris
arctic walrus
This is the kind of question you sim yourself on. However, blood is a bad minor, and iris will be better
sudden ocean
old summit
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
shy axle
When using coral at the start of the fight, are you using it as soon as it is possible for a little bit of crit and then use it for every vendetta or just save it for vendetta and fuck that first usage after 20 sec?
dark crag
Stack to 2nd vendetta
open reef
Gather stacks for 2nd vendetta 3rd etc
shy axle
good thanks
lost wharf
Unless you run inkpod aswell. Then you stack it till you can proc inkpod during the buff uptime
dusky smelt
How about using coral stacks with every second TB (raids)?
rigid mango
What?
distant lava
dark crag
In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti
sudden ocean
Yeah yeah we GET it french man, you love Paris
rigid mango
Guess you guys forgot which channel this is
dark crag
What do you want to do about this
sudden ocean
Can't hang me if I hang myself idiot
dense cedar
stab stab
sick eagle
I was saving for Gorak 445
Got to 61k and got bored of saving so I bought a random piece and got it
the luck
it's weird how Blightborne is better on a 435 but Nothing Personal is better on a 450
rigid mango
Sounds weird to me
latent gazelle
Did you have NP on a different piece when you had the 435 and swapped it off when you got the 450?
sick eagle
no
just becama better
maybe NP scales better with ilvl
idk
actually I was wrong
it was better on a 435 by 30 dps
but that happened because I switched my essencesm with Lucid Blighborne was better
tardy ether
153k residuum and so tempted to gamble but I'd hate myself if I didn't get gorak
tardy ether
yeah I know
knotty falcon
Hey, wouldn't it be worth more to play MA than subterfuge with 3 Eb in dungeons?
rigid mango
Never.
eternal salmon
Guys could you please advise what would be the best combination (or 2) for essencies? I know that you have heard it like mill times, was trying to read the channel, but tbh dont follow all. Im running now bote 3r and lucid 3r. Im more of casual doing keys 10-12 and hc raiding only. Thanks a lot
modest tendon
Bote and lucid for m+, condensing lucid for raids, this is quite set in stone at this point 😛
Has anybody ever tried an 3xeb, 3xttk MA build?
fleet whale
I feel like even one SS is just too good to pass up
modest tendon
Your probably right, MA in dungeon sounds kind of fun though
stuck knoll
fleet whale
If it lasted a little longer it probably would be more viable, but 3 seconds really is too short, esp since empowered garrotes last so long
modest tendon
If it lasted as long as bote? That would be broken haha
fleet whale
well, leggo shoulders i think lasted 5 seconds
that was a fun time, cookie cutter build for both raiding and M+
modest tendon
What do you guys think should be changed about assa to make it better?
fleet whale
I am interested to see if people will just use the standard build for the second half of M+ Mechagon, or if they will try something different
and i might get some heat but change/remove Toxic Blade
have more interactions with poisons, or even more poison options
warped shoal
does raidbots sims that worldvein resonance has 100%uptime?
fleet whale
i believe so, which is why it always looks good
arctic walrus
It's not about uptime it's about how many people are running it, and there's an option to pick the number of people
in practice though, worldvein should never be picked up
lone junco
glad horizon
is coral just as simple as use it before vendetta
like apply on pull
then use those stacks on 2nd ven
modern tinsel
at how many targets do we fan over mutilate, sorry if this is a dumb question
rigid mango
With eb 2t+, nothing 3t+, DD 4/5t+
modern tinsel
so if i have atleast 1 eb i would fan on 2 targets or more regardless of the amount of dd?
full pecan
So... with razor coral i use it on pull and then with second vendetta? (and with every further vendettas) if i do understand it correctly?
west maple
yes
full pecan
ok, thx 🙂
solemn meadow
Should I spam envenom and mutilates on the echo of delirium?
or do you guys dot it aswell
fervent jasper
I have a 440 dice and a 435 spyglass, which trinket should I replace with a 435 coral I just got?
For m+
rigid mango
Dice
lost horizon
that's not really inflated
rigid mango
That's realistic, you wont really be using it that much if you don't have 4
subtle tundra
true
lost horizon
if you were simming with WV you can call it a bit inflated
fervent jasper
So for the coral, on trash you want to use it on the highest health mob? And for a boss you use it on pull then use it again to get the crit during your 2nd vendetta?
lost wharf
@fervent jasper Except if you run Inkpod aswell. Then you hold it till Inkpod procs
fervent jasper
Kk I dont run that for keys but that's good to know
I see a lot of people saying use it on low health mobs during trash pulls
So you get the crit when they die
lost wharf
I mean, it depends. This week it probably makes more sense to do it like that because you need to swap all the time for explosives.
So you can't really keep hitting the same target anyways. Also it shouldn't matter too much since you want everyhting to fall equally fast in bolstering.
fervent jasper
FoK should apply stacks though eh?
lost wharf
I think so. I'm not sure tho. Ideally I think if you start a pull you want the proc on the add that dies first after living for a bit. So probably not like the small rats in the rat patrol, but just a focus mob with equal health to the rest of the pack if that makes sense.
fervent jasper
Seems like a shittt week to have finally got this trinket lol
civic palm
Should ask Blizzard to take it back then.
scarlet sequoia
simming less than 53k 
vast forum
sim
marble elm
52.6 
marble elm
If I had lw I could maybe be really close
I could drop engi now I just haven’t bothered
And I could race change for another 150-200 but not worth
rigid mango
ye
fleet whale
It's not too bad, the worst part about it are the third ring traits that it has
cobalt pelican
how long do the delirium holes in p3 zaq stay up before explodering
very assassination question
just search razqt in the search bar to find his sim
empty tide
rigid mango
@cobalt pelican I just go down when it's about 25sec left
cobalt pelican
on split?
i tried to record a pull to see how long the holes lasted but then everyone yoinked them cause they were panicing
bright tusk
How do I find out what stats are best for me? I've simmed my character on raidbots.com with simcraft
vast forum
generally, you want to sim top gear
but stat weights are also an option to get an idea of what stat is best for you in current gear
bright tusk
oh
I see, I'm dumb.
But what about if I want to know what stats are better for me here and now so I can easier focus on certain dungeons in Mythic+?`
sterile basin
What talents is everyone using for this spec? i'm stuck
rigid mango
for what content?
distant lava
rigid mango
^
bright tusk
I did my top gear sim and turns out I had the correct gear equipped.
But it doesn't tell me anywhere what stats I need to get more and and what stats I could lose some
sterile basin
my toon is 112, and i'm levelling her up. when she hits 120, she'll be raiding and doing mythic dungeons etc and pvp
distant lava
pvp is different for talents
I'd go ask in #pvp
m+ is what I showed
and for raids you sim between the 2 yellow waves
sterile basin
ty ty ❤
i used to main her back in WoD, so its weird getting back into rogue again!
inner wedge
Hey guys, any advice on maximizing damage to Echo of Delirium?
rigid mango
@cobalt pelican yah on split
You use blood of the enemy and vision of perfection
That's how ^^
Have both up for first echo, and both of up for second echo
inner wedge
I go their only once - so Vision won't increase my dps:) and yes, I used blood
rigid mango
Weird to only go down once
Then there you go, not much more to change
You've got the most bursty setup you can
inner wedge
I do 1.7, 2.0 or 2.2 would be better:)
inner wedge
How much does inkpod damages?
rigid mango
On what, the boss?
inner wedge
Echo
swift moss
Not enough to be worth on adds
rigid mango
Small amount
swift moss
But worth on boss
rigid mango
Should be dead within seconds
You don't get enough inkpod procs to make it worth while
inner wedge
Have you tried mechagon trinket?
rigid mango
Are you severely lacking echo damage, or what?
inner wedge
Yes, our two dps do 3.6-3.8 M, but other two can't do another 2.2m
rigid mango
Then that should be more than fine?
inner wedge
Should but it sometimes not
rigid mango
Sounds like HUGE overkill
valid yoke
Any good Assa rouge here who could help me out a little?
rigid mango
Sup
@inner wedge Idk how you can be doing that high when we get through first one with http://prntscr.com/p0hgy7
valid yoke
Well, im having some issues whit my rouge, cant seem to get '' some good '' dps going. Sure, the sim is patchwerk style. but on ashvane mythic give or take im around 37-38k dps
swift moss
Why using ma with ss on chest?
rigid mango
I've got nothing to look at on how you play, do you have any logs?
valid yoke
well the talents atm are from me doing some 2v2 for a moment ago 😛
valid yoke
well. i mostly swtich to SF instead of MA tbh on different fights so
rigid mango
Trinkets really bad, no socketed rings subt probably better, no benthic
Fights don't matter
Subterfuge should probably be better on every boss
valid yoke
well trust me. ive used over 1200 pearlys. and no proper benthic whit socket what so ever
Pearls*
valid yoke
Feet / Waist / Wrist i belive ive been chasing mostly. but the feet are quite yummy doh
well consider my luck has NEVEr been top what so ever xD it's like small potatoes for me
rare iron
Thanks Zine lol
rigid mango
rare iron
Ive picked up rogue this tier for the guild im in. Currently working on benthic. Looking for some pointers anyway to where I can improve on. Char is Falstabz-Stormscale. Not seeming to get as much out as others can, potentially down to not quite optimised with benthic and traits. I understand I should got for 3x DD then after that some NP. I believe UT is a bit of a bait trait and doesnt really provide as much as sims may lead to believe.
scarlet sequoia
youve upgraded non socketed benthic boots
i assume u just did it cus crit effect is big enough on its own
but try not to do that ofc
rare iron
Did that to at least gain an upgrade till I got socket. Then equip was strong enough to provide an upgrade
scarlet sequoia
ya
it looks fine, as long as you regularly sim top gear and stuff then you're doing what you should
rare iron
Just finding it a bit frustrating at the moment, as im looking at others around my ilvl. Taking into consideration things like benthic etc and feel I should be doing more
scarlet sequoia
ilvl is irrelevant this tier
only thing to focus on for you is being lucky with drops tbh
rare iron
Seems like it anyway, espeically with how strong benthic is
scarlet sequoia
your gear looks optimized for what you have
rare iron
At this stage im trying to prioritise in order to keep up with team demands. Just wanted to check there was nothing alarming anyway that I hadnt seen etc that u guys with more xp could see
Thanks for feedback Raz
scarlet sequoia
sure np
strange python
What are the ideal Azerite traits for raid ? 3 nothing personals and 3 double dose? Maybe one twist the knife ?
rigid mango
3 dd 1 np bbi ttk 3 op or 2 dd 1 np bbi ttk loyal 3 op
Latter is better, but means you need to have 4 loyals in your raid team
rare iron
What essence should I have my 3rd as btw folks?
lean veldt
question for Heroic Azshara..
at first two bosses, should i be tryhing to dot both
or focus one
scarlet sequoia
dot both in opener
then focus one
then dot both again when they stack up
basically dot both if theyre stacked
lean veldt
ok, so just at the start,
scarlet sequoia
if not then dont
lean veldt
got it
scarlet sequoia
its not worth running in between them
lean veldt
thanks much!
i think most everything else is single target...
do we do kidney shots on the big add, or leave it for pallie stuns
scarlet sequoia
most ppl use hunter binding shot tbh
lean veldt
and lastly... 3 groups of adds, just FOK the groups?
scarlet sequoia
but if youre stunning then its best for rogues to do it yes, assuming youre playing prey on the weak for it
yeah fok the groups
remove crippling poison for the fight tho
might fuck your raid if the adds get slowed towards the middle
formal idol
hey guys! worldvein sims assuming there are other (4-5) people in your raid right? so is it not worth using the minor unless youre in a raid environment and know there are other people near you using it? my 3 traits are otherwise condensed major, lucid/iris minors otherwise
formal idol
not even on a standstill fight like sivara or orgo?
rigid mango
Not really, no
formal idol
cool. tyty
jolly agate
Does blood of the enemy have a purpose?
vast forum
very much so
cobalt pelican
make you hit big
lost horizon
make u hit strong
jolly agate
In which scenario would I use BOTE over Iris as major?
drifting cloud
all the scenarios
lost horizon
if BotE is rank 3
jolly agate
It is r3
lost horizon
that is the scenario where you use BotE over iris
jolly agate
I speaking more for M+
burnt dome
well I assume you wont use iris in raid
lost horizon
yes
jolly agate
Do I pop it before FoK spam?
lost horizon
pretty much
burnt dome
from the pinned msg: Blood of the Enemy:
For ST with MA and BotE use Blood into Vanish+Finisher after TB within Vendetta
For AoE, It provides more EB procs (still only up to 5). Best used either after garroting 3 enemies or before using Fan of Knives back to back
jolly agate
I'm gonna try it out
rigid mango
It's awesome for prio, st and aoe
It has no flaw, it only takes one gcd and does similar damage to iris at mongo aoe
By far BiS
shut garnet
well, it has one big flaw
it's locked behind a big wall of content most competitive pve ppl dont like
doing battlegrounds until 60k rep
shut garnet
how lol
shut garnet
how much honor does an epic bg give on bg week?
lost horizon
can also farm on a week with an easy brawl
shut garnet
playing 25-30 battlegrounds that last 1hr
lost horizon
it's ridiculously more tedious than a lot of the other essences, so still super annoying
but not terrible if it's your main
shut garnet
onlyto get ashran and rq
cobalt pelican
it's only a big deal if you make it out to be really
i don't even remember farming blood at this point
lost horizon
just do regular BGs
shut garnet
they give even less
lost horizon
was getting like 600-800 each
cobalt pelican
regular bgs are better honor/hour by far
lost horizon
and with a 5stack you can smash them
cobalt pelican
and actually enjoyable
shut garnet
yeah probably because you're horde and your faction can pvp
lost horizon
i'm ally
cobalt pelican
saem
lost horizon
also @cobalt pelican 'actually enjoyable' let's not go that far
cobalt pelican
half of alliance is literally just mercenaried horde players anyway
faction means nothing in bgs at this point
hey i enjoy a bg every now and then
shut garnet
had some pretty bad experiences with ally pvp whilst levelling alts through bgs
cobalt pelican
i did like 50/50 fun and afking under ashran bridge
shut garnet
sucks i missed that bg week that you could pretty much farm it against bots
feels bad
lost horizon
it's actually pretty fun though with a 10 stack LOL
rigid mango
Either way, far from sin now
shut garnet
who're willing to go through that
for an essence that isnt too far off iris for sin
right?
rigid mango
Doesn't mean the convo isn't far from sin related at this point
Bring it back or hop into wow gen, no issue with that
lost horizon
BotE early on was bis ST as well
and when everyone was farming it out there were plenty of people looking for group
lean veldt
i am seeing on logs alot of people using mech trinket with punchcards. Any ideeas which punchards are preferred?
lost horizon
cyclo @lean veldt
lean veldt
for like red/yellow/blue
lost horizon
then just highest ilvl yellow (ideally w/good stats) but sim if you have similar yellow cards
lean veldt
cyclo?
lean veldt
ok
now... is that trinket with cyclo better than the rest, like ashvein/inkpod?
or are they just used so often because no one has those two trinkets lol
lost horizon
no
cobalt pelican
with a big yellow it's probably better than inkpod on some fights but it's nowhere near coral/font really
lost horizon
ashvane and font together are strongest combo
cyclo just isn't bad
always sim what you have though
lean veldt
what if it is a normal or LFR mode ashvene/font
cobalt pelican
as a point of reference 415 base coral was an upgrade for me over cyclo with a 430 yellow
so lfr is probably worse overall but ya simming is your best bet
sick eagle
Is font even viable for m+?
tiny finch
Sup guys! i was checking master assassin rotation
///
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Rupture
Mutilate if still in master assassin window
Garrote
Vendetta
Toxic Blade
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Vanish
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
////
so i start stealthed then do the mutilates right?:
can i track the master assassin window with a weak aura?
lean veldt
Quick question on heroic Azshara.
during the phase where we have 3 groups of adds, should i be sticking on boss. or go over and FoK the adds
vast forum
@tiny finch you always have 3 globals in MA window unless you're energy starved
cobalt pelican
probably jus stick to the bossu nless you're playing iris or some dum b shit
lean veldt
i seem to be averaging about 20k
cobalt pelican
did you skim the guide at all
like you're opening with garrote on one (rather than back), then vanishing to garrote the other one for some reason
lean veldt
im using Subterfuge talent (as I have Shrouded Suff, for lack of a better option, on my chest)
cobalt pelican
i am aware yes
lean veldt
which i believe is garrote/rupture/garrote, yes?
cobalt pelican
well not on 2 targets no
lean veldt
o
cobalt pelican
you would be garroting 3 times, 2 of which would be on the same target
or at the very least garroting each of them once
and you wouldn't be vanishing till the empowered garrotes had expired
lean veldt
o, so garrot/rupture the caster... then move to the other guy and garrot?
cobalt pelican
sure, i guess? 3 garrote globals is almost guaranteed to be better but
lean veldt
o. so no rupture, just 2 garrote on caster, 1 on melee, and then stay on melee?
then hit vend/tox.
lean veldt
o
cobalt pelican
ideally it would be gar1 gar2 gar1 rupt1 vend tb etc
lean veldt
okay, so 2 garrotes on caster, 1 garrote/rupture on melee, vend Tb and so forth
got it
cobalt pelican
i'd imagine you have some kind of better major essence than lucid for this too
considering almost all your lucid casts are wasted
like, at the start of the fight you're popping it oto early with 4 bleeds of energy income and capping
you're using it with 5 bleeds up when the girls are up and the myrmidon
etc
you're fokking way too much for no reason
edgy fulcrum
I see in the wowhead guide it says "Use Envenom at four or more combo points (5+ with Deeper Stratagem). Against a single target, with neither Vendetta nor Toxic Blade up, it is worth pooling to about 80% energy before using it."
Does the last sentence mean before using Vendetta or toxic blade? or is there another reason to wait for energy?
cobalt pelican
it's referring to waiting for energy before using envenom
edgy fulcrum
whats the reason for doing so?
drifting cloud
we do damage in bursts, pooling energy before them is a dps increase
having 0 energy when you use tb or 150 is alot different
edgy fulcrum
That seems kind of vague, what are we playing around doing so
cobalt pelican
envenom gives you two buffs
envenom, which is significant for double dose
and elaborate planning
you want to cast the majority of your mutilates inside both
there's no reason not to wait for energy, really
(unless you have tb or vendetta up, which is part of the sentence you pasted)
edgy fulcrum
ah ok
opaque tree
Are a lot of you guy using Iris or Crucible as 2nd minor slot? World vein is just for parse padding, right? I've heard that you rarely get all stacks in raid
Iris was simming slightly higher than crucible for me, just wanted to know what others are using
fleet whale
It seems that people with higher haste values are actually going C&S for the second minor
opaque tree
damn I don't have even the 2nd rank of that
fleet whale
tbh what's best as the second minor is gonna depend from person to person, and there is a little more "customization" in what you do
it's not quite set in stone like lucid minor
fleet whale
for rank 2 yeah
but rank 3 makes it viable
if you want to get to rank 3 try to get to at least 1400 rating. Otherwise, it will take you 15 weeks to get it
opaque tree
oh, do you get more "trophies" or whatever to combine if you have a higher rating, each week?
Also, seem C&S is pretty nice for mythic +
sudden ocean
Best option to sim it
jovial adder
What’s current the best race for st raiding?
rigid mango
Maghar orc
jovial adder
Any idea how much dps I would gain over my belf?
shut garnet
not a lot lmao
tropic ocean
race dps variance is very very small
young portal
Is there known issues with sims for inkpod? Not too knowledgeable on sims but got a 455 last night and it sims lower than my 445 coral/430 font. Heard rumours from a few that it isn't simming correctly that's all
tropic ocean
thats because coral and font is overall higher dps than inkpod
shut garnet
for singletarget at least
tropic ocean
inkpod is really good to frontload dmg and store it for later usage
(when you need execute)
shut garnet
if you're on orgozoa/zaqul i could see it be useful
although both fights are st focus really so you should still run font coral...
tropic ocean
inkpod is really good on zaqul too as you dps stop anyway
so don't really need 2 blaster trinkets
rigid mango
Depends on strat, but yeah
young portal
Understood, so it's literally a scenario based decision as to where the raid needs execute damage to use it and the sims are correct
rigid mango
Generally if you're doing the normal wait for overlap strat, inkpod is really good
It's less aboute execute damage
tropic ocean
@young portal exactly
rigid mango
more about the fights where you can actually get enough stacks
It's not about the need for damage, that's not what you do on zaq
tropic ocean
if sub 30% phase is hard the dmg has more value there
rigid mango
Zaq's sub 30% damage phase has nothing to do with boss damage, though
tropic ocean
well you just kill boss so inkpod dmg useful
shut garnet
im guessing inkpod could also just be insanely good on ashvane too
tropic ocean
it is
rigid mango
Realistically nowadays you should be 2 phasing
so it's not amazing there, but yeah, if you're doing 3 phase strat which really is far out of date, it's pretty good
Dunno if better than font + coral though, the burst phase dps is probably better
shut garnet
i dont think the strategy is out of time, just depends when you started your mythic progression
all guilds 3 phased their first ashvane kill im pretty sure
rigid mango
Nah
I think guilds atm are doing 2phase on prog
It's waaaaaaaaaaaay easier to prog with 2phase
not gonna lie, it's such a much easier fight with 2 phase
jovial adder
^
shut garnet
yeah exactly, all of your guild is meant to pump like 45k dmg to 2 phase
tropic ocean
like with nowadays gear it should be 2 phased (it also makes the fight very easy)
but many guilds just need the current gear and 3 essence slots to even kill the boss at all
😄
so I guess it really depends on ur group
shut garnet
not to go too off topic but do you class current gear as having cleared first 3 mythic bosses for 6 weeks and neck lvl65?
because a lot of people havent done either 
i wanna say most people even
rigid mango
Current gear is hard to put into context