sometimes it just be that way
#assassination
cobalt pelican
civic palm
tank pulls 4 seconds early and spins the boss as hard as possible
strange python
not as bad as face pulling the boss while in stealth
sudden ocean
it do be that way sometimes
strange python
<-----------
cobalt pelican
the amount of times i've had
cheat death proc from orgozoa
hitting me because i shadowstep
civic palm
lol
strange python
xD
mossy vortex
Well @cobalt pelican Thanks for the help. Will try to fix this problems.
placid mulch
Those zaqul pulls where I start at 1000 hp after the double super crit muts
civic palm
o _o
sudden ocean
As I said before, take it back to the dummy and make sure everything is happening when it should before you apply it to a fight
civic palm
or just DO IT LIVE.
sudden ocean
ordering and downtime is your problem atm, easily fixed with some rote learning
strange python
Wow you were right lmfao i was looking at the wrong timeline
placid mulch
Odd question but does the sim ever actually pool energy? Running through ability list and I can’t find more than a 2 sec gap
rich crow
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
strange python
tribal marlin
you need to scroll down more to see pooling
strange python
this one confuses me where he used the ashvane trinket
cobalt pelican
the sim naturally pools before envenom outside of tb/vend
tribal marlin
you might not see any pooling in sample sequence during bl
strange python
oh duh nvm
cobalt pelican
the value it pools to is like.. based on your character so it'll be like, 120ish or so
strange python
you ahve to let it stack then pop with vendetta window
sudden ocean
yes
strange python
My mistake
sudden ocean
this is an example of a pretty much perfect opener
strange python
Im still learning how to play rogue after maining blood dk lol
sudden ocean
notice how they didnt get 4 cp from the first mutilate so they did a second one for big rupture uptime
this ensures later on in your vendetta window you aren't cucked into reapplying too early
placid mulch
Like I always aim to pool for TB and I see most of the TB on the sim it’s like 35-60% energy
hazy flame
you shoud aim for 3 envenoms each tb
strange python
would it have been better if hed pop the ashvane on the first second
cobalt pelican
the sim doesn't pool for tb
strange python
yeh its hard for me to fit 4 env
cobalt pelican
so if you're looking specifically around tb windows you won't really find anything
the logic is literally: if tb isn't up already, vendetta isn't up, and there's only one target, wait for x energy before pressing envenom and moving on
that's it
the x is an amount based on your energy income
sudden ocean
No ross, the most important part of the opener is the mutilates, which is probably why the player didnt apply coral until the 2 seconds
cobalt pelican
but it'll be 110-130ish
civic palm
~80% max pool
sudden ocean
bear in mind this is a 2 second window, it looks easy on paper
but performing it in raid is a different story
placid mulch
Big brain human player should pool for TB even though sim doesn’t...right?
sudden ocean
the most recent breath you took was probably 3-4 seconds longer than that window
hazy flame
how much haste do you all have unbuffed I am curious
cobalt pelican
not really, no
civic palm
~22%
sudden ocean
I would faded, solely to ensure that there's still something that separates us from the machines
cobalt pelican
like, you should have energy for tb but playing specifically to pool for tb is not really a play
it's like hmm
placid mulch
If bionics improves my dps call me wall-e
cobalt pelican
idk how to word it really, if you're naturally pooling for envenoms anyway
you'll always have spare for tb
pooling solely for tb is a player error, but one that is easy to pass on to other players
civic palm
TB downtime is so short you rarely find yourself draining NRG if you are pooling correctly.
strange python
yeh that master assassin window is fucking brutal
tribal marlin
also carefull not overpooling
cobalt pelican
the advice 'get the most envenoms into tb as you can' gets posted a lot and while it's not like.. incorrect, it's misleading in that if you're playing well this happens naturally and should not need to be shoehorned into your rotation
tribal marlin
as long as you do 2 envenom/TB it's fine
cobalt pelican
because if you do so other parts will suffer
tribal marlin
overpooling is wasting Lucid dreams procs
placid mulch
That makes it easier then. I’ve been trying to think of all these pooling windows to max tb, ep, env damage
hazy flame
scenario you got 80% energy 5 cp and tb is coming up just tb and waste a combo point or envenom tb muti envenom
placid mulch
Recently got massively humbled so I’m trying to really comb through my dps
civic palm
"is coming up" isn't a time, and without knowing your dot timers it's hard to tell what you "should" do.
strange python
relative
civic palm
The entire spec is relative.
civic palm
Other than like, Affliction, there's nothing else really.
hazy flame
@civic palm dots were reapplied right before that so 20 sec way more time than you would need and coming up is 2 secs or less
tribal marlin
Don't overthink the spec
civic palm
SPriest meebee.
tribal marlin
just play it correctly, do not waste ressource (pool before enven) use TB on cd and it's fine
civic palm
The CP from TB cannot be wasted, use it on CD.
stable yarrow
civic palm
doodoo
cobalt pelican
civic palm
unless used in weird fringe cases, IMO, but that's untested.
cobalt pelican
should give you a p good idea of what it looks like
note if the last mutilate only gave 3cp it would use another immediately rather than holding for 2 seconds
placid mulch
My goal is I just wanna be hitting sim damage or within 1.5k either side
civic palm
on a dummy that will be easy.
cobalt pelican
aiming for sim numbers ever in a raid encounter is just bad for mental to be honest
placid mulch
Yeah exactly and maybe for sivara
civic palm
Bad choice ye.
Siv is a bad idea as well as it gets you in the mindset of scuffing mechanics.
cobalt pelican
like, you'll have iterations of your sim at 43k and iterations at like 54k
and then you have to account for
anything that happens during the fight
what if you play perfectly on a 'bad iteration' (pull)
like
just forget the numbers and aim to play well
civic palm
12 people take barrage blasts, yaywtfareyoupeopledoing
cobalt pelican
if you know you pressed every global right and you didn't do damage
blame the game
and move on
cobalt pelican
i'm playing subtlety you can't make me
strange python
WHen ive forgotten poisons before pull
civic palm
tru
cobalt pelican
that actually happened to me tonight my poison weakaura for some reason had vigor as a trigger
and i was playing deeper assasination
strange python
bahaha
civic palm
Maybe it.
placid mulch
At least sin rng isn’t as rough as ol rng
woeful minnow
I forgot to reapply poisons before a boss last week and they expired mid-fight
hazy flame
@cobalt pelican rip pull
civic palm
I now cannot remember if mine have talent restrictions, I don't believe so.
woeful minnow
was a 
moment
hazy flame
what was it on?
civic palm
Crippling has a Zone Restriction on it.
placid mulch
That sad cast timer 10 secs into pull for deadly
civic palm
This is why you have a long timer on your reminder O _O
civic palm
Mine are 10min atm, as I don't think any fight has been longer than that in a while.
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
sudden ocean
When I had the mecha 3 ability ring set I was using poison application and tricks to proc the ring on the prepull
civic palm
w/e works O _O
arctic walrus
3 ability -> behind target gave me 30% extra uptime on buff
strange python
my weapon jsut broke on a target dummy
civic palm
ha
strange python
sudden ocean
Yeah behind ring is large
civic palm
Right I just wanted to make sure the English was right.
But yeah, behind > 3 ability
Cuz it's whack.
sudden ocean
But 3 ability for fish
civic palm
¯_(ツ)_/¯
strange python
Wish I had invested into getting the best benthic pieces at the start I just got tired of spending the manapearls.
with socket would be nice
placid mulch
I wish I utilised my alts more
I’m at like 1500 mp earned and still need to farm 175 for 2nd belt to 425
cobalt pelican
i've just left my abb belt at 420 and called it quits
i do the battle for nazjatar once every few days
i'll probably get my 100 pearls from emissaries and that by the time i hit zaq
and on orgozoa it's very whatever
placid mulch
Battle doesn’t exist on oce lol. Best we get is naga commanders a couple times a day
strange python
too much mana pearl per lvl
distant lava
you just tag in a group
fallow otter
im just using tank belt, cbf aberation belt
placid mulch
If I had the tank belt I’d not care
But I was a young pup with stars in my eyes when I levelled my abb belt to 425
tribal marlin
did a sim earlier btw
placid mulch
So you guardian then stealth then open?
fallow otter
whats the actual
tribal marlin
I mean it's just to notice legacy open and actual open doesn't really matter
placid mulch
Legacy you mean the G R M one?
tribal marlin
G M R yes
placid mulch
Right. But it has a higher ‘potential’ damage in the new one right?
Since there’s two MA muts
tribal marlin
it's supposed to be a 0.1% gain with BotE rank3, with usual guardian before vnedetta it's around 0.06%, with pre-combat guardian less than target error so
placid mulch
Huh interesting. Might as well race change if that .1% matters
Is your gear pretty much tier complete?
tranquil ruin
what prepot yall using
tribal marlin
almost yes
I miss zaqul head, I still using inge helm
I also don't have Mecha ring set
placid mulch
Just wondering if the opener matters more or less on ilvl
tribal marlin
I don't think so
fallow otter
@tribal marlin is that like ~50dps?
tribal marlin
for what ?
tribal marlin
yes new open should be ~50dps without pre-combat guardian
a bit less with pre-combat guardian
Yes
I mean, just don't overthink the spec
round harbor
got QC down
round harbor
now back to never playing sin again lol
tribal marlin
xD
round harbor
i was doing good every pull until the one we killed it
tribal marlin
oh btw we forget to say, you'll need to play sin for echo of delirium
round harbor
i gave up multi doitting half way through since RL was getting mad about my vendettas
fallow otter
@round harbor we got it down lastnight also
tribal marlin
why did he get mad about your vendettas Oo
fallow otter
gratz
round harbor
cause vendetta happens to perfectly line up with silivaz dmg only phases
and my job was to burn pashmer
tribal marlin
oh yes there is a shit going on after we swap
fallow otter
prog kill parses are whatever
tribal marlin
Vendetta comes on CD in the "Stand alone" decret + "stay in the bubble" phase
I just delayed vendetta for 20sec here
tribal marlin
yes that one is ok
round harbor
so 2-4 vendettas were on the "off" boss
fallow otter
i like when you doing prog not knowing the movement yet and are channeling font during stand alone and they move the boss and everyone has to run around you
lol
tribal marlin
but the next one happens in a shit timing since you either do it on the melee which is at 10% hp or delay it for a tons
fallow otter
feelsbadman still having like 20s cd on cloak so you cant stay out for bubble twice in a row
tribal marlin
tbh I don't think it's possible to do orange parse with that strategy
I mean most orange parse I see was just funneling the melee guy from 100% to 0%
round harbor
i didnt use cloak there
i used my cloak to take 0 defered dmg
just get 10 stacks then cloak as the phase change happens
tribal marlin
didn't work wth me
I mean we move too much so I didn't tried it
and I was cloaking to help soak anyway
fallow otter
if they knew the rogues were doing that we could do it i think
but for the most part it moves too much for us also
just bailed pash when you got bubble miki?
stay there for feint duration or didnt even bother?
tribal marlin
no I just go to the bubble
fallow otter
yeh fair enough too
i mean i had to do that anyway for every second one
my parse on kill was 77 lol
tribal marlin
My usual rotation was like : Opening on Melee guy, swaping to Girl to apply dots, stay on girl till needs to refresh dots on guy
refresh dot on girls then move to guys, refresh dot on guy and funnel guys, swap to girl when needs to refresh dot on her etc...
fallow otter
i never double dotted except when i went into bubble
tribal marlin
are you funneling the girl the whole fight ?
fallow otter
we had 1 spreist lastnight and 4359587432 melee so us rogues were on pash the whole time
tribal marlin
oh ok
round harbor
pretty much same
i think i got a sub 20 parse
but was #4 dmg on pash
so im fine with it
tribal marlin
will be hard to get a good parse with that strategy for sure
for a first kill, better safe it
round harbor
all our parses were shit
im pretty sure the even cleave strat is sub optimal
i think the burn one to 35 trhen focus other is better
fallow otter
got any destro locks
tribal marlin
I find myself a little good routine to multi-dots theim
fallow otter
our one was popping off
vital haven
ok bois
shrewd ice
I'm wondering what is a good opener with Ss I'm currently doing 7sec pulltimer Font-2 second pot-stealth-garrote-rupture-garrote-guardian-vendetta-toxicblade-envenom
vital haven
i have 61k chalk
shrewd ice
I'm missing out on damage
tribal marlin
with the pulls every single refreshes was at the exact same time every time so it became easier with the time
vital haven
do i gamble on goraktul
strange python
Queens court is a weird one for me, i try to multi dot and focus one but I don't know if that's the optimal approach
vital haven
or wait for 200k
round harbor
dep[ends on the rest of your gear
vital haven
its 600 dps upgrade
vital haven
ok
round harbor
imo
fallow otter
well i strongly believe in rolling because i play outlaw aswell
tribal marlin
Well as I said, multi-doting on QC is optimal but it has to be done very well
round harbor
do you have raid shoulders
tribal marlin
need to find your own routine so it became obvious
fallow otter
you could get m+ sin shoulders or outlaw shoulders
and if you brick them you get 10k refund
im pro gamble 4 lyfe
vital haven
im just gonna wait
vital haven
ye sheesh why didnt i think of that
fallow otter
the raid shoulders are not far behind right
vital haven
I LOVE THAT BIS AZERITE IS BEHIND AN RNG ROLL
strange python
Just equip all 
distant lava
Someone said bis azerite ? 
tribal marlin
I finally got a good M+ setup with 2/2/2 which don't include any of my raid gear pieces so I don't have to reforge
so now I'm just saving residuum to buy 445 gorak tul
fallow otter
well fish boss chest is the closet to the gambles out of all slots right?
distant lava
Its better than ceph iirc
strange python
I miss class sets
shrewd ice
Me too
distant lava
You simming with 4 loyal ?
fallow otter
superrrrr close tho most of the time if its not winning
hopefully zaq helm drops first kill 🙂
heroic zaq helm OP af
shrewd ice
How the hell do you sim 50k lol
tribal marlin
I'm simming 52k :3
vital haven
how much dps do you get from 3rd essence
tribal marlin
a lot
distant lava
I only sim 50k 
vital haven
IMN SO CLOSE
drifting cloud
like 1.8k~
tribal marlin
even more
strange python
fallow otter
1.8k probably just flat adding the essence, but then you re-gem and you'll get some more
drifting cloud
yeah, its slightly more
tribal marlin
with worldvein I think I have haste at like 6.2dps/point :3
vital haven
do ppl actually use that?
vital haven
can i join your guild
strange python
yeh i took off worldvein off as a minor and replacec it with focus iris minor and lost dps
2k
tribal marlin
for now we're only 3 wearing it
drifting cloud
doesnt wv have some bugged uptimes
tribal marlin
at melee range but it's enough for it to be worth it
tribal marlin
I don't know but on details it show like 75% uptime when I'm 100% certain I have 4 shard like 90% of the time
so maybe
vital haven
whats the lowest number of members to have 100% uptime
tribal marlin
but we progressing Zaqul right now so I don't use it for this one
I play protocol xD
shrewd ice
Zaqul nice man
shrewd ice
We are currently on ashvane but our kills are so messy my logs are hideous
tribal marlin
it does like 10% of my dps and a good 6% on zaqul alone
shrewd ice
Good to know
arctic walrus
do you only go down once
tribal marlin
yes
arctic walrus
smh lucky
fallow otter
miki you are CLF/lucid/protocol?
tribal marlin
I would prefer doing 3 and 4
yes clf / lucid / protocol
i'm on 4
If I was doing 3 and 4
and least I would be sure the add will die even if someone fuckd up and don't go in the realm xD
tribal marlin
I use it rank2 tbh xD
fallow otter
haha ok cool, i have that
tribal marlin
i'm on it but I gambled some punchcard early one
fallow otter
me 2 i burnt about 20 on yellows
tribal marlin
I still farm it for the m+ because it's strong enough at rank3 in m+
arctic walrus
rank 1 protocol here
faint canopy
Hey, in AoE situations you're supposed to just spam FoK after BotE or do you weave envenoms between FoKs?
shrewd ice
What are your traits?
faint canopy
Echoing blades x2 shrouded suffx3 one twist of the knife
shrewd ice
Keep dots up on atleast 3 targets and use fan of knives on more then 2 targets
But sim crimson tempest and poison bonb
To see what is better
fallow otter
does this setup work without bote coz.... i dont got time for pvp farm sadly
tribal marlin
yes I think it's better to do 5 FoK during BotE with enough target
robust ivy
Hey would anyone mind looking over an ashvane log of mine. I dont know if there is any little thing I missing? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KCLYmWn8y4pRkGbP#fight=22
arctic walrus
line up your coral/font/vendetta better, you can read up on it in #tc-updates
tribal marlin
why aren't you using vendetta on 1st p2 ?
@fallow otter for m+ yes you can just play iris
robust ivy
RL told me to pop all on pull to get through the first p1 at the right time
tribal marlin
make sense
but I think it's a mistake tbh
well 1% isn't that bad assuming your dps during 1st p2 is shit (overall)
you won't be able to do good dps on ashvane with this strat because you need to hold cooldown for long time
so unless you are siming 50k actually, 41k is not that bad considering your strategy
robust ivy
I am at like 44.3k sim
faint canopy
I'm going crazy on raidbots, i did a statweight and it told me i needed more haste (i was at 12% i think https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6fMM4rGPQZXCrQ6hzouzFr) so i changed all my gems and ring enchants to haste and did it again (https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xpZiS5L7UFbpuZgJBbwmJW) and it made me loss dps? so i did a gear compare (https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/47BSvUwWZyRSSuoHNTuaP9) and it wants me to go with my super high vers ring? what the heck
Am i missing something?
arctic walrus
You never change your gear based on stat weights.
Go into top gear and do it there
placid kindle
sim gems/enchants in top gear rather
lost horizon
Stat weights are run at a set delta and can change drastically, always sim out the actual pieces/gems/enchants to be certain
civic palm
The only use for Stat Weights is food calc.
faint canopy
Okay but isn't vers like not that good on assassin? why is gear compare recommending it?
Over mastery/crit ring
sand whale
if you're running lucid major chances are your stat weights are going to be super close
which is probably why you are facing your current problem
faint canopy
I see, so when i finally get Condensed stats will be more defined?
simple meteor
yeah versa/crit is my top at 50k using iris as 3rd and gemmed half my gear to crit gems
sand whale
yeah so I'd just stop gemming unless you really really want to min max just to do it all over again when you get CLF
just use the food like miz said
call it a day
strange python
Yay I got CLF rank 3 now
bronze kelp
gz
balmy bridge
hi everyone, i have question here, why my condensed life force dealed damage lower than other ppl's, any idea? in every pulls i used it 2 times. is it normal for rogue ? i activated the essence 2 times in every pulls, like everyone else. What am i missing here? i did not join the 1rst 6 pulls tw
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/qLxF9J1ZhngfRQdV/#type=damage-done&ability=-300091&boss=-2&difficulty=0&wipes=1
harsh sphinx
just from a quick glance it looks like they all have much more vers than you
bronze kelp
they have more uptime
you have an average 80% activity, means you were 20% of the whole raidtime dead
+your average dmg values per hit are a bit lower
this could be due to lower ilvl or less versa or such things
balmy bridge
i wasnt in raid for the 1rst 6 pulls, so maybe it shows me only active 80%, @harsh sphinx you are right, condensed life force dps is based on your vers 😦
uhm so, is it normal?
balmy bridge
i see, i was a bit worried cause this is 1rst time i use this essence, i usually use BotE
thank you @bronze kelp 😄
bronze kelp
no problem
harsh sphinx
on mobile but think if you read the tooltip it says it scales from vers
bronze kelp
it does
umbral hemlock
Is it still worth it to clip EP or Envenom? Or doesn't it matter anymore?
cloud lichen
Hi everyone, I still have problem with my sin spec. I probably don't understand how to pool properly, when to spam or not. I read the guide but there i can find only the rotation (which i understood) but not the actual gameplay. Can someone be kind here or in private and explain me the general gameplay that I should have for example in tb window, tb + vendetta window, or wihouth it? Thanks in advance
crisp steppe
@cloud lichen its fairly straightforward and probably explained in more detail on wowhead. basicly you keep your dots up. envenom gives you a buff, if you read it you'll understand that its beneficial to get more attacks in during this timeframe. same thing for TB. you're trying to get a lot of envenoms in
you use TB off cooldown but you do your best to go in under favorable conditions
high combopoints, energy so you can fit in a lot of envenoms and mutilates
cloud lichen
@civic palm thanks for the guide, but as u can see it doesnt say when to properly pool or what, that's why i asked
crisp steppe
pooling is basicly this
don't waste energy (by sitting on cap)
then you pool to setup basicly everything
just a random envenom benefits from you having energy to spend while the buff is active
cloud lichen
so without tb lets say
it is smart to wait to envenom to pool enough energy to spam 2 mutile in that window
even if it means cast 1 less envenom, given that i have already the envenom buff active
is it right?
topaz wasp
It is worth pooling before useing envenom so you can get in another envenom cast inside the elaborate planning buff
crisp steppe
I don't know about that one Kim.
@cloud lichen not sure what you mean
yes when you have envenom up you want to be using mutilates. whenever possible you set it up so you can do so
that means having energy etc
topaz wasp
I might be novice rog, but why would you not want to get in additional envenoms inside the EP window? 10% extra dmg on envenom
crisp steppe
well its a tradeoff as you can see
cloud lichen
so even if i sit at 4-5 cp and i have 0 energy but the envenom buff active, it is right to wait until 1 pool enough energy to spam mutile inside the envenom window
even if it means to spam 1 envenom less
crisp steppe
more envenom damage vs envenom uptime which also translates into damage
if you sit at 4-5 cp you would not cast any mutilates at all
you pool your energy to start a new envenom window
cloud lichen
I see, I'll try this way, thanks for your time man
crisp steppe
generally the 3 rogue specs don't want to waste combopoints, don't want to waste energy
an exception for asssassination is that its fine to sit at 5 combopoints just before you use your TB
to make your TB window better at the cost of 1-2 combopoints
feral shuttle
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
feral shuttle
What are people using in their 65 slot? Flame?
rigid mango
Iris seems the common pick
feral shuttle
Time to sim 🙂
rigid mango
Bingo.
turbid osprey
Not worldvein?
rigid mango
Worldvein is sim pad 😄
turbid osprey
I’ve been suspicious of worldvein anyway lol
Feel like you never properly stack with 4 people anyway
Apart from one or two exceptions
placid mulch
Loyal to the end, worldvein, etc too much relying on other people. Be self sufficient
Unless you have a friend who dies on every pull then definitely use loyal to the end
floral willow
feel like loyal is bis in my raid time ;p
team*
i mean if 4 ppl are using it, its a lot of mastery anyway
tall narwhal
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
sudden ocean
Loyal is bis without a death
very cool and good 350+ mastery
Means you can spend all that stat investment on crit, later virgins 
bleak spoke
@crisp steppe man what? Like it’s super simple, if you might have the energy to fit your envenoms in a window, you slap the button, if you don’t have the energy to hit every global but you have the energy to clip ep, you clip ep, if you don’t have the energy to clip ep, you clip the envenom window, if you don’t have any energy at all you pool and refresh dots to prep for future windows. There’s a finite number of envenoms you can cast and pooling is just logically reordering them so you fit as many into your buff windows as is feasible
As long as you don’t lose any casts of envenom you should seek to cast as many mutilates as possible in the envenom window, and to cast as many of those mutilates inside of EP buff windows
Not capping energy is only a good rule if it means you lose potential casts because of it
If you dont*
There’s no real tradeoff, there’s almost always a superior decision
clever cipher
is Shrouded Suffocation really that bad? I kinda wanna play the subterfuge opener with one SS, but I sim 1k higher with MA and just double dose spam in traits
I kinda hate the opener for "no-SS"
frosty talon
@clever cipher its not bad but is more for specific fights like Zaqul or mythic + content. MA is the go to Talent for ST
clever cipher
I feel like my opening DPS is so weak with muti spam
and the garrote being stronger is pretty good in movement fights I feel
but I cant really argue with sims
was thinking maybe someone else here was as headstrong as me and just went for SS anyway
frosty talon
Ofc you play what you like more 😁
clever cipher
in general im just slightly annoyed that you sim something and the whole opener changes I guess
I liked SS OP 😦
rigid mango
SS isn't good for a single boss encounter, realistically
Court is the only contender, other wise the standard MA build is better.
clever cipher
I guess I'll just use the excuse of "I also wanna be OK in M+"
tall narwhal
well
tropic ocean
no excuse for playing suboptimal in raid in any circumstance
tall narwhal
you can always switch talents and respec azerite 
cloud lichen
guys as wrist the one with effect of the pufferfish are good or is better the frost one?
tropic ocean
frost one better for st
modest tendon
So I’m using 3ss,2ttk for kr and ToS, what 6th traits do you guys use? I don’t feel like just the 1 eb does much damage
rigid mango
I think you need 1 eb in every dungeon tbh
There's enough 3-4t+ in that instance to make it worth while taking an EB even on tyr weeks
modest tendon
Was experimenting with bbi, do you think the engineering helmet might work as well? Maybe I should just suck it up and use an eb
rigid mango
I'd always use 1 EB, I'd maybe replace a ttk for a bbi?
SS fucking pumps in that dungeon, just like KR
modest tendon
I could try that, probably give some good single target as well, not a fan of single ttk though, the build doesn’t feel good until you have 2-3
steady owl
What traits would you use on Azshara? There’s a lot of adds there
spark oyster
Go full ST
steady owl
Ok thanks
balmy crane
don't deal with at all?
do you stick on azshara 100% once she is up?
I'm not speccing into anything other than ST but I do put on my neck beam to kill adds (lucid minor)
I'm just looking for a bit of information before I tell my raid "nah not going to do that" when they tell me to kill adds
cobalt pelican
on heroic? just do whatever honestly
if your guild want you to hit ads go ahead
it's not good but
arctic walrus
"I'm not speccing into anything other than ST"...takes iris 
you can throw out a fan or something
but you're not gonna take time off boss to spread ruptures
tall narwhal
i sim exactly the same with assa, as I do with outlaw 
balmy crane
@arctic walrus that's why i listed it as the exception
but message received I will see how that flies.
but yeah for me, just Heroic
acoustic steeple
Yo guys how do you sim assa for m+? Dungeonslice? or just go full crit/mast?
rigid mango
You don't 🤷
tall narwhal
royal lantern
teal hatch
Could someone explani the best opening to use ? been geitng complatins of my openings being all messed up
vernal flume
wooo got coral from weekly mythic quest
rigid mango
@teal hatch the one in theg uide
rigid mango
!guide
solid nova
@teal hatch Depends on talents
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
teal hatch
these re my logs
rigid mango
They're in there 😄
solid nova
yike
teal hatch
that guide doesnt have opening
teal hatch
no idea richard think its because someone told be that was best
quaint bobcat
rigid mango
Don't listen to people
quaint bobcat
solid nova
I mean, if you read the guide 
sand whale
the guide also has this https://i.imgur.com/ywu3nDk.png
upbeat geode
isnt the guide written by people? so you indirectly listen to people anyway?
teal hatch
LOL
vernal flume
big brain
solid nova
You're holding TB a lot
teal hatch
Okay should i also keep tb on cd ?
solid nova
Yes.
teal hatch
okay
solid nova
And opener is in the guide
teal hatch
Anything else u find in the logs that i should be working on?
upbeat geode
what does "No Shrouded Suffocation powers for Toxic Blade" mean?
rigid mango
P much useless opener afaik
arctic walrus
big brain higher ilvl dagger in OH
upbeat geode
Yea, im doing the MA opener, im just gonna ignore the rest.
solid nova
@upbeat geode Toxic blade talented, without shrouded traits.
teal hatch
I dont get it, do I use garrote 2x after eachother ?
rigid mango
Pandemic.
teal hatch
Does it stack?
rigid mango
Do you understand how pandemic works?
teal hatch
Dont even know what pandemic is
teal hatch
Before yall start flaming me yes im new would appreciate help but if u feel like these uestions are just stupid then just ignore me
solid nova
teal hatch
ty sec lemme read
upbeat geode
@solid nova so the first opener is no SS traits but also not specced into MA?
upbeat geode
cool ty
lone junco
Could be a non SS subterfuge.
teal hatch
okay so let me see if i get this right, If i use Garrote 2x times on a target the duration of garrote is gonna be 30% longer ?
lone junco
It goes from 18 to 24
teal hatch
okay so i should always try to do that
upbeat geode
ye
lone junco
But with ss you get lots of cheap CPS.
teal hatch
does that work with rupture too?
upbeat geode
yes but you dont want to use it like that
sand whale
shrouded suffocation combo points
lone junco
🚪
teal hatch
Okaaay so only 1 rapture then
upbeat geode
you can add 30% of your old blood on top of your new bleed
dusky tinsel
I'd recommend just getting a popular weak aura setup that glows your garrotes/ruptures during its pandemic window so you don't have to overthink it
teal hatch
Okay I got 1 ss atm
upbeat geode
so you can apply a new ruprure when there is 30% or less remaining of your old rupture
teal hatch
Any specific trait build u guys think i should aim for >?
lone junco
Mizerok wa kit is nice.
sand whale
you will save yourself a lot of questions if you just read up on some basic guides imo wowhead or just google how rogues work not to sound mean
teal hatch
Do u have one to recommend ? @dusky tinsel
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
frozen kindle
@quaint bobcat hello man how are you
strange python
Can someone help me out plz
Having an issue with an addon but cant seem to find out which one
https://imgur.com/a/gI6VJ19 poisions are showing in the middle of the screen
limber dagger
Guys can assa compete with outlaw in m+?
tall narwhal
i would guess that in some certain affixes and dungeons yes
but i lack the experience to comment
limber dagger
But outlaw is still ahead after the nerfes?
tall narwhal
generally speaking i would say yes - you can see it also on the rio rankings
cobalt pelican
the addon looks like quartz buffbars
tall narwhal
but again, i'm just a 1.1k pleb
cobalt pelican
no idea though
upbeat geode
im still playing outlaw in m+ and most rogues i meed above +15's do the same
outlaw's dmg got nerfed but they still have amazing utility
rigid mango
Sin and outlaw are close
You can do well with either, personal pref is probably it
You can push to highest rankings with sin, same with outlaw 
upbeat geode
sin is really good if your comp lack slows in a necrotic week
teal hatch
So in the guide u guys sent me it says opening is Garrote-rupture-garrote, but wouldnt that just apply a weak rupture due to lack of combo points ?
upbeat geode
its a shorter one yes
teal hatch
also doesnt say anything about being stealthed before, im guessing thats just an unspoken rule ?
upbeat geode
it still gives you elaborate planning for the next 5 sec while your powerfull garrotes are ticking and you start envenoming with tb up
teal hatch
okay
cobalt pelican
which gets you through the first tb without needing to refresh
lower cps spent on rupture does not lower the damage per tick, just the duration
and yes always be in stealth
tall narwhal
also one thing to note
when playing assa in m+ is that if your tank chain pulls
youre gonna miss out on a lot of dmg from SS
cobalt pelican
yeah you hold vendetta for 20 seconds if you're playing shrouded suffocation
so they line up
tranquil ruin
can u snapshot rupture with nightstalker?
upbeat geode
yea thats another reason why sin is good on necrotic. leaving combat drops all necrotic stacks so your tanks are less likely to chainpull
arctic walrus
nightstalker affects any ability it's just not better than MA or SS
upbeat geode
@teal hatch you vanish after your first empowered garrote drops
signal summit
glacial crypt
I think so too, benthic pieces are so strong
limber dagger
Guys vigor vs mark for m+
vernal flume
i like vigor
lone junco
@strange python turn on WA and click the eyball to show all might see a grip to move it to the side
strange python
let me check @lone junco
vernal flume
anyone feel like a ton of emissaries were added to M+ this week...ran a few keys last night and it felt like there were way more than previous weeks
upbeat geode
emisaries are on a 3 week rotation
upbeat geode
welcome to void week
vernal flume
I guess I never noticed playing my priest, but started playing my rogue in keys like 2 weeks ago so it would make sense I never noticed so many voids until now 😛
limber dagger
Does anyone have XP with crimson tempest in m+?
glacial crypt
Yes
It's very, very good on fortified week
EB + CT
MA or Subterfuge but I prefer subterfuge because I also have 2 SS
limber dagger
EB?
rigid mango
CT sucks
glacial crypt
Echoing blades
rigid mango
It's never used, in 0 scenarios
glacial crypt
Zine, m+ score as assassination?
rigid mango
Echoing blades empowered fok's do more damage than CT in 1 GCD
It's literally a DPS loss pressing the button
glacial crypt
Wrong
glacial crypt
In packs of 4 or more using EB and CT is huge
stuck knoll
Do you have any math at all to back that up
glacial crypt
- if you're stacking scent of blood you'll be doing more damage than you'd think
rigid mango
??????????????????????????
vernal flume
scent of blood wat
weary verge
CT doesn't interact with Scent
dense cedar
Scent is just agility...?
rigid mango
Holy moly delusion what
dense cedar
it makes ur mut do more too
rigid mango
You're saying scent, a mediocre trait at best, and CT are good?
dense cedar
it make ur poison knife do more too
rigid mango
And that's atrocious.
glacial crypt
Yeah? You think so?
rigid mango
I know so.
stuck knoll
There's much better set ups you could run
glacial crypt
Using rings from mechagon for either haste or nature damage to enemies from behind too
I do a LOT of aoe damage
rigid mango
Ah you're trolling, I see.
glacial crypt
lol okay
rigid mango
Not allowed in spec channels, if you want to, do so in off topic
rigid mango
You've got sub 1.7k
You're nothing special
Stop typing as if your score validates your incorrect opinions
glacial crypt
You're pleasant
arctic walrus
just because you have a good score doesn't mean you're playing the spec right
glacial crypt
How would you suggest I play it then?
rigid mango
I see people far above your score (last season) do things wrong too
It's not like just because you have X score means you're playing it correctly.
glacial crypt
I'm 4th assassination rogue for alliance on my realm, I'd say I'm doing pretty well honestly
rigid mango
CT is never better, SoB hasn't been good since s1 iirc
limber dagger
not saying youre wrong zine, but how do you back up your data about CT being bad?
rigid mango
Just look at the damage.
It does less damage than a fok if you have several echoing blades traits
It's as simple as that
It's a DPS loss pressing a spender over a builder
arctic walrus
You can be #1 world rogue, but still be playing like shit
you're sandbagging a comp if you're running ct
random furnace
Got it, no gif's in this channel! 
limber dagger
but where do you get that from? cause you cant tell that after 1 dungeon because every dungeon plays differently?
dense cedar
why scent of blood tho...
rigid mango
Wdym
arctic walrus
oh yeah scent too yikes
glacial crypt
To empower EB
dense cedar
its just agilitiy tho
arctic walrus
those 2 scents can have gone to 2 ttks
spice surge
EB doesnt get empowered by scent
dense cedar
it makes anything marginally better...
rigid mango
It's sad to say it, but in a world of EB being a thing, CT will never be good
limber dagger
siming it for dungeons is a 1k dps loss
spice surge
Agility has no effect on EB, literally none
arctic walrus
which will buff your envenom damage more than a sob would have to your ct or fok
rigid mango
Simming for m+ as sin
arctic walrus
it doesn't take a sim
rigid mango
Doesn't work really
glacial crypt
If you have it on 3 targets with 2 traits that's over 1000 agility
arctic walrus
to realize a talent is bad
rigid mango
It's too different as to what we want really
spice surge
Yes, but EB isnt affected by agility
glacial crypt
Fan of knives damage is?
rigid mango
You're better off stacking vers
arctic walrus
You fail to realize 1k agi is nothing over 2 whole ass traits, that atually do good damage standalone
glacial crypt
Which are?
arctic walrus
which al have more value
glacial crypt
How many SS Would you run?
rigid mango
1-3
arctic walrus
1-3
dense cedar
2*
rigid mango
Depends on dungeon, comp, affixes
glacial crypt
I've not felt a lot of value in 1
quasi pewter
glacial crypt
I felt like 1 was a waste when I ran it
dense cedar
?????????????
median hedge
rigid mango
The others are just more damage, that are better for certain scenarios
SS is weird though, because it's got a very godo window where it's nuts
upbeat geode
but thats what he "felt" not what he simmed
arctic walrus
then you have the whole ct issue
rigid mango
and outside fo it, it's outvalued by other traits
arctic walrus
how long even is the bleed
glacial crypt
I think this chat alone has done a lot to make me want to stop playing xd
vernal flume
weird
dense cedar
ss makes your garrotes deal like 1.5 times more dmg or something like that I think?
rigid mango
What, tell you that you're infact not palying it correctly?
upbeat geode
i would suggest stop reading chat and just having fun
rigid mango
and shouldn't flaunt your mediocre score as a way to prove your incorrect point?
Yah.
teal stratus
It’s your money, play how you want.
rigid mango
You litearlly wanted to score flex me as soon as I said you were wrong
rigid mango
sorry for not being the nicest to you bnack.
dense cedar
no to it
arctic walrus
going back to score
glacial crypt
I'm just curious
quasi pewter
rigid mango
neither particularly high
glacial crypt
Character name ? If you don't mind
arctic walrus
imagine being only able to listen to people who are "better" than you by a metric that doesn't mean anything
dense cedar
your mythic+ score doesn't beat maths
arctic walrus
It's not even math, it's having a brain
upbeat geode
simcraft has 0 bosses killed on mythic but i still listen to it
rigid mango
Just because I have IRL and thus can't spam m+ like I want to
Doesn't mean what I say is incorrect
glacial crypt
I mean, same lol
solid nova
I mean, you are incorrect though.
glacial crypt
I'd love to spam keys all day but I unfortunately don't have he time
Hence my pride in my score
rigid mango
And it's low
mortal crystal
Yeah
rigid mango
so don't flex it as if it's great.
mortal crystal
I thought it'd be 2k+ at lesat
rigid mango
No one cares about your score if you can argue without using it as the reason why you're correct
teal stratus
comes out of shelter is it over?
solid nova
Yes
arctic walrus
Anyone tryna get m+ advice from me 
faint canopy
Yo Zine, how about spamming EB vs weaving Envenoms between FoKs during BotE
arctic walrus
you spam fok if you just need aoe
rigid mango
I've found it to be great for both, with it being void week and all
upbeat geode
Vel i'd love to hear your opinion if its well constructed
faint canopy
Purely dps wise
arctic walrus
prio target env if you need it
rigid mango
Purely for overall?
faint canopy
yea
rigid mango
If you have enough targets, fok spam wins
It wins at like, uhh
4-5 targets+ I think?
also depends on the quantity of EB/ttk traits
and mastery and vers and crit and so forth
upbeat geode
there was a spreadsheet a while ago but that said FoK spam only wins if you have 3 EB traits
faint canopy
im running 2eb and one ttk so maybe it's not better for me
rigid mango
Vers isn't insanely good
dense cedar
rigid mango
it would be good for your build though
dense cedar
i didn't even know vers existed tbh
glacial crypt
Dear fuck
glacial crypt
I've been stacking crit mastery mostly
rigid mango
That's generally how gearing goes
Crit is the top thing to stack
so that's not bad
Just crit + master/vers pieces
And fuckall haste
stuck knoll
If you swapped into ttks that mastery would be really good
glacial crypt
I've got 18% haste or so with my raid set
rigid mango
18% is way too much m+ wise
dense cedar
don't need too much haste
rigid mango
and too low raid wise
glacial crypt
- 445 GB
rigid mango
GCB 🤢
glacial crypt
That's with the benthic pieces
dense cedar
GCB
glacial crypt
Without benthic it's 11 or so
dense cedar
i love playing a caster
glacial crypt
Zine, when I'm home later tonight could I DM you about my build ?
solid nova
glacial crypt
If you've got the time, or if anyone who really knows a lot does lmao
rigid mango
Go for it.
arctic walrus
How the turn tables
rigid mango
I'm all open.
glacial crypt
Cheers, I'll DM just now so you're in my recent
dense cedar
speaking of builds
been cooking up a new one that i'll put in off-topic at some point
rigid mango
Vansolo 
glacial crypt
What kind of build would you guys run in m+ this week? Mines is obviously like, completely wrong 😅
upbeat geode
swapped back to outlaw for this week
dense cedar
the near instant change of heart is scaring me
rigid mango
Uhh, I run 2 ttk eb ss most weeks
arctic walrus
I found this crazy build: 2 dd/1 ttk/1bbi/1np/1 loyal thoughts?
dense cedar
I wonder what scary thing Richard said
stuck knoll
Vel is that your vend on 1 build?
glacial crypt
I mean I'm always open to suggestions and I'm looking to be the best I can be
rigid mango
He's of no harm 🙂
dense cedar
🙂
glacial crypt
So itd be a waste of time for me to fight against the current surely
rigid mango
arctic walrus
what about my vend?
rigid mango
Vendetta on prepull, duh
glacial crypt
Exanguinate 
arctic walrus
None of you will know my prepull secrets private log 
dense cedar
I'm glad exsang is bad again
glacial crypt
I wasn't a fan of exang
upbeat geode
idk i really liked exsang
rigid mango
Leak your logs to me vel 
glacial crypt
Inb4 9 logs every fight
arctic walrus
Club wh
rigid mango
Vel wh
arctic walrus
not even on the front page of wowprog anymore
rigid mango
arctic walrus
It was a priveledge not having to search guild up
Now i have to go to the 2nd page 
rigid mango
scarlet sequoia
always 2nd
rigid mango
I can relate
scarlet sequoia
😉
rigid mango
Atleast you're not raz
arctic walrus
i'm taking back my view on your playlist
rigid mango
have to click 3 times
glacial crypt
Yeah I'm on the second page too 
rigid mango
I missed playlist
arctic walrus
nobody knows who I am but I have to help all the rogues while you guys sleep
dense cedar
I wanna post the talent build here
glacial crypt
Do it
dense cedar
but also scared of some sin noob seeing it
and taking it as gospel in the 4 seconds they see it
glacial crypt
Van, the talents I ran were 2 2 2 2 2 3
scarlet sequoia
i feel like this build has a lot of potential
stable yarrow
upbeat geode
Oh raz is that the new build? im gonna spec into it right now!
dense cedar
@glacial crypt don't dm me
turbid moat
r
dense cedar
r
glacial crypt
Damn okay
arctic walrus
Thanks for expert theorycraft will incorporate it for sure 👍
glacial crypt
Just like this discord
dense cedar
and only bleed n' stab
arctic walrus
can i just replace my abilites with /hug /kiss /flirt macros then?
clear saddle
guys isn't focused resolve the way to go for ST?
dense cedar
no
rigid mango
no
dense cedar
damage is non-toxic
upbeat geode
no those make you evil
rigid mango
Unbridled fury
dense cedar
its just a harsh lesson in love
rigid mango
dense cedar
give me your daggers
rigid mango
^
dense cedar
430 main hand 
glacial crypt
They're not that good
dense cedar
450 is very good wtf do u mean
glacial crypt
For me anyway xd they've been wasted
quasi pewter
Offhand is only good if it has a socket tbh
dense cedar
same
glacial crypt
I'll put 450 in offhand when I get back
quasi pewter
Imagine not having 445+ mainhand in 2019
dense cedar
at this point i just gotta hold out for a sivara drop or wild warforging
arctic walrus
^
rigid mango
Imagine being sat on first boss because you're gearing spriests
glacial crypt
How do you guys rate the sivara helm?
rigid mango
