Sometimes
#assassination
round harbor
My main target is pashmer but to dot the other one when it's convenient
Not sure if since I'm running coral I should just throw everything into pash
old summit
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/usZHVDuoYjxQ129Uzmc8oX is this sim okay? i feel like my haste is so low :/
round harbor
I know for sure I'm sometimes dotting silivaz before the pandemic window just because I know that I won't be on him for a while
stable yarrow
wtb goraks
old summit
@arctic walrus lol mb
void bear
is there any bis?
rigid mango
For what, raiding?
void bear
yeah mainly
void bear
whats cepha?
rigid mango
Cephalohide
void bear
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nNchTP5siRpgep48Fi8o4y
What should i defninetly switch?
rigid mango
I'm amazed spyglass sims better there tbh
I personally wouldn't because inkpod's a good prog trink
- if it crits it's doing waaaaaaaaaaaay more
rigid mango
Still, inkpod for me is still a better trinket raid wise 🤷
if you miraculously get it critted it's doing insane amounts
If you don't, it's still v good
strong yacht
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
verbal holly
what would you guys say the best trinkets for M+ are?
rigid mango
coral + spyglass
rancid bobcat
is it still use tb on cooldown even when it doesn't align well with vendetta
rigid mango
hm?
rancid bobcat
like tb comes up 10-15 seconds into vendetta
rather delay the tb right before so it gets used inside vendetta fully?
or just press it
rancid bobcat
sudden ocean
Blessed day
void bear
@rancid bobcat so i should definetly switch my gems for crit?
rancid bobcat
id say get some more gear first
rancid bobcat
try NP on the shoulders instead of SS
obtuse ruin
Are you guys using bote or iris for m+?
rancid bobcat
and see what master assassin looks like
stable yarrow
boteee
sudden ocean
Bote has better hybrid use imo
void bear
i got ss on shoulders cause i dont have it on the other azerite
arctic walrus
I use tb if I know it'll be back up for at least the last 9 seconds of vendetta
so it's safe to use tb as long as vendetta is below a 34s cd
imo
void bear
whats tb ^^
arctic walrus
@rancid bobcat
void bear
!help
rancid bobcat
toxic blade
arctic walrus
Toxic Blade
void bear
okay
rancid bobcat
the problem though is then you gotta line up vanish with tb right
arctic walrus
yes it will delay your vanish a little
void bear
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mt23gzU7D1UCFEAfRfcr52
Got somee new shoulder
rancid bobcat
and it just feels kinda icky when vanish is like 10 seconds off from vendetta
permanently
arctic walrus
I'm not sure how it really is in terms of dmg, but I like getting full usage of tb
it's more feely than anything
this is better for you actually
you had +5 ilvls on your 445 shoulders but you aren't 65
fervent jasper
Dratnos said the proper way to play toxic blade is "when the button comes off cooldown, you press it"
So I think you'll be fine just using it on CD
hushed arrow
^ prepool energy to use TB on cd is very effective strat
real bay
just use on cd
distant lava
and try to make it so you don't have to refresh your bleeds in the window
fervent jasper
Refreshing during tb is fine. It's a very very minor loss to do so
hushed valley
The biggest feelsbadman is dumping your energy in the window and not being able to refresh with what you've got
hushed arrow
That's why refreshing dot in tb window isnt big loss
fervent jasper
Keeping bleeds up is your top priority
hushed arrow
^
willow coral
How are you guys using Guardian of Azeroth? I'm currently just using it on cooldown and letting it line ut with the third vendetta
hushed valley
So kinda an odd question. My computer is pretty old(gtx 650) and sometimes it feels like I cant give inputs as fast as the gcd. Is that a thing?
willow coral
Could be, I had that problem when I was playing surrender to madness back in legion. That was with haste levels a bit higher than currently though
stable yarrow
Input lag isnt related to hardware
hushed valley
Should I be looking at my router? I'm hardwired
real bay
i got plenty of input lag sometimes it seems like server lag
bigger raid, even more
fps is 100+
hushed valley
Ms usually 50 home 50 world
My fps tanks occasionally but I've fixed up my graphics settings
I tried that spell que window somewhere I read said set to your normal ms. It felt very weird
lost wharf
Does inkpod work with tb, vendetta and/or crit buffs?
shy dust
MA tb vendetta don’t affect it
real bay
coral works for it
lost wharf
So it can crit, but only thing I can do about it is coral?
rigid mango
Pretty much
Luck with deadly nav proc if you have it I suppose, nothing that you can improve on though
lost wharf
Does it work on Zaqul debuff or the debuff from the the raid essence?
summer parcel
What essences would u guys run for m+ this week?
tropic ocean
bote lucid protocol
tropic ocean
yes as major
tropic ocean
it just works aganist the nature of eb
cuz the chance to crit with fok is very high
andprotocol minor just random aoe dmg so good
summer parcel
isee
scent of blood or nothing personal? have nothing better sadly
feels like both are about the same for m+
zenith gust
so.... literally zero versatility? is this real? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pwV7Fx9Toe1tZEY4pnhbQn
🤷
fringe sable
Hi guys, first message here, so nice to meet you :D.
I've been struggling recently to get proper score on Warcraftlogs for Heroic Eternal Palace bosses in Assassination. I've used their "compare" feature to compare myself with other assa with almost the same ilvl, on same fight duration, and using the same talent and trinkets, and the difference car really be huge. To give an example: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/KVhCGQazPLj1Xf79/F9VAMxmBtPy4dzNW#fight=12,19&source=19,Stabybob&type=damage-done
I'm at 31.8K when the compared assa is at 44.1! Looking at the spell distribution, it looks very similar, but what striked me is the difference in Average Hit on some of them, notably Envenom. When mine hits at 32K on average, his hits at 47k!
Am I missing something big with the spec that is removing me 50% of my envenom efficiency? We don't have the exact same secondary stat distribution for sure but I can't see how that would result in such a difference :x
summer parcel
are u getting the most out of ur Toxic blade?
fringe sable
to be fair i'm just trying to hammer it as soon as it's available while not overcapping CP and ideally when an envenom is about to be cast
wise stratus
If that's you on the left you have 0 benthic, no CLF rank 3, and youre not using the right potions
Youre also mis using coral
fringe sable
I've not been potting as we are on farm for those boss, but could that really make that much of a difference on a almost 5min fight?
wise stratus
Yes, those potions last a minute and do a lotttt of damage
He used only 1 of them and it did 404k total damage
fringe sable
Guess I've underestimated their value 😮
wise stratus
Also, his envenoms could be benefiting from traits such as twist the knife, his 5% damage from his CLF rank 3 (as well as pairign that up with his vendetta windows) = mroe damage
more*
and crits with benthic boots will be doing more as well
fringe sable
Did not think a list of small tweaks like this would add up to 10+K difference
Regarding coral misuse, isn't the goal to dump it during Vendetta ?
wise stratus
I just added it up, so with his CLF, benthic, and Azshara storm gloves and pot he did 1.7 million more damage with non rogue abilities. So that definitely contributes to his DPS, and like I said things like the boots alogn with CLF during vendetta and saving your Razor Corals 2nd use for your 2nd vendetta (for more crit) will greatly increase your dps
Were you using your razor coral before vanish and then saving the 2nd use for your next vendetta/vanish window? If so then you werent misusing
fringe sable
ok, thanks for the tips!
I guess I should have kept my pearls for benthic upgrades instead of the shiny mounts 🙂
summer parcel
would agility potions outdps brided for m+ on packs where u spam echoing alot?
wise stratus
Yes
lost wharf
The aoe agility potion certainly would I guess
summer parcel
i have a 440 harlanders with socket, a spyglass in 440 and a phial of arcane tempest in 450 with socket
sims says the phial sims insane
but it feels so trash
lost wharf
Idk either. I checked my dps meter with a 445 phial and it so shit. My coral does more dps...
strange python
They were just having a lengthy discussion about phial in outlaw. It sims much higher than practicality because of how you have to get it to hit everything. It requires a lot of effort
fervent beacon
No, you get out of here
summer parcel
😄
fervent beacon
👉 🚪
summer parcel
nah but seriously tho, it sims really high but every key ive been doing its like doing top 2% of the dmg
if even that
strange python
It has a very small range. I guess you walk in let it get on someone, then stand max range while it builds up, then walk back in to the group. For a weeks affixes like this, ya no way.
strange python
Hey guys, i want to try assassination instead of outlaw, in guide it shows what azerite traits is good, but i heard about some sort of meta like 3 SS and 1 EB? Is that right? With my current gear i can get only 3 SS, or 2 SS 1 EB, what is better?
vapid scarab
are you asking about m+ or raiding
strange python
for m+
buoyant kraken
does toxic blade increase dmg of drippling inkpod?
vapid scarab
no
buoyant kraken
vendetta doesnt either i suppose then
vapid scarab
class abilities and talents were all specifically white listed to not affect trinkets or anything like that
vestal wren
hes 440 itemlvl 50k seem def. possible
scarlet sequoia
not with that gear
bronze holly
nah its 5min
severe osprey
damn I badly want that trinket combo
severe osprey
which is ? for science
summer parcel
my sims tell me to go 1x echoing and 2x shrouded instead of 1x shroud 2x echoing for dslice
can that be right?
raw oasis
Garrote with SS is extremely potent. You open on a group stealth and you throw out three garrotes, 1 on 3 different targets. Finisher move with rupture and then spam fan of knives.
summer parcel
is it worth using ur cp to put up several ruptures or just keeping faning?
raw oasis
4 bleeds is all you really need. It's easily covered with your opener
Again it's important to do three garrotes in a row even though you're wasting cps. You can fit 3 in your subterfuge window.
Maybe four if you have extremely high haste
strange python
RNG or Blizzard fuking me if im getting 5 of the same wrist for the past 5 weeks?
vapid scarab
@summer parcel dungeon slice is not a good metric to look at for sin in m+. 1 more EB vs 1 more SS will just depend on the week, the dungeon, and the group
vestal wren
i think the majority is not used to see 50k+
warm sable
Any tips for Lady Ashvane ? When we use CDs...
From start or we delay like 30 sec
45s
merry wraith
Depends on the rest of the groups DPS. If your group is struggling to hit a health target before her shield goes back up you might wanna save it for when her shield is down
vapid scarab
that depends 100% on your raid group
and your RL should be making the decision who holds and who blasts on cd
crisp steppe
a typical 3phase kill is a bit less than 8 minutes yeah
so you can get 3x CLF
4 vendetta
you have wiggle room on those as you can see
urban ember
peeps, cannonbal runner 425 or harlan loaded dice 430? any thoughts ?
arctic walrus
I'd say dice cuz cannon has potential to lose a lot of it's value
sterile ocean
do i use Crucible of flames when i have 2 charges?
strange python
Poison bomb vs Hidden Blades pros and cons?
manic quartz
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5x9Pqv26NAd4jsgu8q84Uh ughh, now its telling me to go full haste.
tropic ocean
@strange python poison bomb just increase your dmg passively you don't need to take care of it
strange python
That is true
tropic ocean
hidden blades increases the dmg of your fok only
difference is little so with poison bomb u cant do anything wrong
strange python
if single target, how many stacks of HB would you need to cast FoK on to match a PB proc equally?
tropic ocean
no idea, I don't use it on st
strange python
Ah fair
tropic ocean
its good if u have delayed cleave so it can stack up but u lose dps on st
bleak spoke
You let it stack to full
You don’t use it until it’s 20 stacks
Basically use it in place of muti when you do
It’s actually not too much of a loss on st
strange python
hmm, seems to need 8-9 stacks at my currentl level to match PB damage
sterile ocean
do i use Crucible of flames when i have 2 charges? or when its up?
bleak spoke
It costs 35 e for a fok for 1-2 cp on st
So you only want to use it at its maximum potential
strange python
but if you 20 stack FoK instead of a mutilate would that be a fair trade in terms of the gcd / energy usage?
bleak spoke
Pbomb is like 2.8-4.1% of your damage on st
arctic walrus
@manic quartz do you have loyals in your raid
tropic ocean
well you don't need to compare it sololey vs poison bomb
you need to compare to the spell you used instead of fok as well
strange python
hence my mutilate question haha
tropic ocean
so it needs to be > over using envenom+pb basically
bleak spoke
Nah
tropic ocean
cuz the envenom could potentially proc pb
signal summit
U lose a mut not a env , just the potential proc
strange python
lose envenoms?
bleak spoke
You compare it to muti
signal summit
U also have to take combo points into account
Well that doesnt have to do with more envenoms
strange python
Yeah it does, half cp
signal summit
U could fok at 3 to get 4, where i would mut for 1 cp anyway
strange python
but sometimes I find muti gives me 3cp sometimes?
signal summit
It can give 1-4 Depends on crit
strange python
oh right interesting
strange python
I might stick with HB just because it's a little more engaging
ah that makes sense
on the generation
manic quartz
@arctic walrus no 😒
signal summit
I wpuld never specc out of pb currently atleast
tropic ocean
any rogue that downed mythic zaqul and was sent downstairs?
signal summit
Delerium u mean ?
tropic ocean
yes
signal summit
Ye me
signal summit
The tentacle stun ?
tropic ocean
after a while in delirium i get stunned
tropic ocean
so I use cloak to extend combat?
signal summit
Depends
Sometimes like first delerium
U want to die to first tentacle on purpose
Then u cloak when u get up
To get rid of the stacks
Same for first echo delerium i usually use healthstone and Crimson to stay alive until 2nd tentacle Then die on purpose
At 2nd echo just stay in as long as u can , start to use Crimson early Then take away stacks with cloak the Crimson again
tropic ocean
aight
signal summit
NP
Just Make sure that u kill the echo and ur good
With the dps Ppl have nowdays It's super Easy
For 2nd echo phase If u go bote use bote on Add Then when it dies use vendetta on boss , Since u go leeching poison it gives u extra sustain downstairs aswell
crystal storm
I have a question about weapon enchants if I recently got a upgrade and swapped my main hand to my off hand. Can I have force multiplayer in the off hand or do I need to re enchant it?
lost wharf
The enchants don't matter on which hand they are.
desert vault
So is bote only worth using at r3, cause I don't pvp and man ... trying to pug random BGs and stuff ... not sure I want that misery
strange python
if you don't enjoy pvp.. i probably just wouldn't grind it
arctic walrus
just get rank 3 clf
desert vault
I mean I want bote cause its decent for M+, might be patient enough for r2 but r3 ...
arctic walrus
you missed your window with weekly bg event last week too, so it's even more of a drag
strange python
you really need r3
arctic walrus
iris is fine
desert vault
iris + 3x eb is kind of meh
arctic walrus
okay? then grind blood
fickle abyss
quick question do i still use agi pot or one of the others?
lost wharf
Iris + 3x Shrouded is better anyways 😄
brisk frost
Is there a specific reason why many of the top rogues are using inkpod+coral instead of font+coral? i get it on bosses like azshara or ashvane where boss excecute damage matters, but many top rogues are using it on every boss. for example for me font+coral sims over 1k dps higher than inkpod+coral
sacred yarrow
Farming high ilvl inkpod easier than farming font
lost wharf
That is odd, because 2 on-use trinkets are quite awkward to use. Also I got a 440 inkpod with socket which is hard to replace. I guess most ppl have a higher inkpod than they have a font
placid mulch
Not gonna say laziness but it’s probably laziness
supple ridge
but having 445 coral and 430 font sims more than having 445 coral+ 455 inkbod for me
brisk frost
i get that point on "casual" rogues, but i highly doubt that rogues from top guilds haven't got even 430 font, since even 430 font sims way harder than 445 inkpod
real bay
font is easy to fuk up, its annoying (imo), so that 400-500 simdps isnt worth
rigid mango
Font + coral is unbeatable unless you have a specific bossfight where inkpod is better
Aka possibly ashvane, definetly zaqul
Other than that, font + coral reigns supreme
real bay
tbh most top logs are either combo so use whatever you prefer
font is giga for short fights for sure
rigid mango
Font is giga for all fights but zaq
brisk frost
i get that point, i was just wondering what am i missing with inkpod. for example Nukkz, which happens to be rank 1 rogue atm, have made all of his logs with coral+inkpod. And Yliajo is using inkpod+coral, i highly doubt that method's rogue just dont have even 430 font, and uses coral+inkpod because of laziness and because it's easier to use and farm
rigid mango
Inkpod doesn't really compare on anything but mythic zaqul and arguably ashvane dependant on strat
brisk frost
and i personally am using font+coral, i was just wondering why so many top logs are made with something that sims less
that am i missing something
real bay
just get lucky and crit 
leaden burrow
Just got coral, can someone explain to me when its optimal to use it ? Like at what stacks do you usually pop it ?
leaden burrow
Ah my bad, Thanks 😛
livid stratus
couple it with vendetta
Pool energy but dont over cap and blast.
Remember Vendetta gives energy aswell.
rigid mango
What has that got to do with coral 🤔
lost wharf
@brisk frost It's the same reason as why you occasionally see Outlaws at the top ranks. Sims reflect a number of itterations averaging out while top logs reflect 1 boss fight where some1 might have had above average luck. Critting on Inkpod is such a factor aswell as rolling 5 buffs as outlaw. Top logs always have a portion of luck involved.
rigid mango
The main reason why outlaw is also insane on logs is beacuse they can transform any form of aoe into insane overall dps gain
livid stratus
Nothing Zine, just a little bit extra advice, its free to be polite and just offer help after all. He didnt know when to pair it, so may be new to Rogue, IDK.
past harbor
How is 41k dps overall in a m+ without massive pulls (like going one or two packs at a time) good for sin?
rigid mango
40k+ is good sure
Depends on a lot of things, but generally anything above 40k is good in nearly any/every scenario
past harbor
Ty, i was looking for some reference to have, recently switched from outlaw because i got good gear for m+ and i like the reliability of a non rng spec and higher st on bosses than outlaw in general
brisk frost
@lost wharf with coral+inkpod it crits every time, so that's not the reason
bleak spoke
Sin in keys doesn’t actually have higher dps than outlaw on bosses though
It’s literally fight timer dependent
Outlaw will always output more or less the same damage absent stellar buffs, but with sin if you never get to your second vendetta (which has to be delayed cuz of subterfuge) it’s super unforch
Like lots of sin’s st burn comes from traits you wouldn’t ever play in m+
rigid mango
This season it's so much better than last though, since you run lucid minor
That single target value is just nutty
past harbor
Really? because im doing more dps than with outlaw on 2 min bosses (with 2SS, 3EB and 1 TTK)
hoary patrol
Is DS better than vigor atm?
rigid mango
Never
opal oyster
!weakauras
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
round harbor
@rigid mango anything else I can work on? I'm trying to add like 4-5k DPS to what I'm doing
hoary apex
on a raid boss, do you hold vendetta for second vanish to come up? or vendetta immediately? Because I always end up waiting since I vanish only after my initial empowered garrotes drop
round harbor
As I feel that's where my gear should put me at bare minimum
rigid mango
@ me with them and I'll take a peak after raid in about 45
round harbor
Will do in a min
winged pumice
hey guys. just watched a rogue guide which says open with 3 garrotes and 1 rupture, then just spam fqn of knives but ive got 2x TTK so should i be using envenom during aoe?
sour wasp
can anyone give me the string for ceph chest?
rigid mango
Nope
sour wasp
how's zine not banned yet
rigid mango
🤷
winged pumice
can anyone help meh out? im confused
winged pumice
so i use fan of knifes then envenom every time i hit 5 combo points?
sour wasp
after the rups yup
winged pumice
okay
shrewd plover
hi guys, i got a question : On Helm of the Inexorable Tide its better to take DOuble dose or Undulatings tides ?
winged pumice
so 3x garrote, 2x rupture, then fan of knifes, hit 5 combo points, envenom then repeat fan of knifes envenom
scarlet sequoia
double dose
sour wasp
sim yourself, but undulating is overrated and dd is a must if you have that helm
@winged pumice depends on the amount of EB's you have
shrewd plover
ok, cause when i sim, raidbot said undalating is better
sour wasp
that's a bit odd
anyways, undulating assumes you never dip under 50%
which is credible if you do hc runs or something
shrewd plover
yes but for Mythic its more hard 🙂
winged pumice
2x eb
sour wasp
@scarlet sequoia can you give me the string for your chest? kisses
sour wasp
na 
sour wasp
all cool
scarlet sequoia
@sour wasp chest=",id=167270,bonus_id=6349/6338/1557/4786/6269/4775,context=25,azerite_powers=136/181/30/15/13"
should be it
lost wharf
@scarlet sequoia Every piece with a socket....
crisp steppe
what about it @lost wharf ?
arctic walrus
waow raz ur so gud
rigid mango
links sim
crisp steppe
I see a cloak with a socket, a ring with a socket. offhand with a socket
that part really doesn't take much luck
rigid mango
Imagine not having higihest sim vel 
arctic walrus
100 dps above me and he gets all the glory 
scarlet sequoia
😊
rigid mango
Just get a socket 
arctic walrus
I'm the best 2nd simming rogue you'll ever see
arctic walrus
that's a me
lost wharf
I wanted to copy the input string for your hands, but Idk how 😦
I have 445 azshara hands and wanted to know if it's worth the grind to get those
lean coral
arctic walrus
Do i gear my alt or get a socket+15 forge 
just to beat raz only for him to get an upgrade soon
keen bloom
is there a top gear like this for rogues https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qor6rCYhcBNSguxZQmj13n ?
stable yarrow
i used to be a big simmer
rigid mango
No
sour wasp
dh sims in here
keen bloom
and vel if possible ty
rigid mango
Vel sims worse and has pretty much same things
sour wasp
vel doesn't really matter
keen bloom
okay
rigid mango
They're p much equal
sour wasp
cause he's 2nd
keen bloom
thanks
rigid mango
Idk why you want it though
keen bloom
idk both
rigid mango
It's the game of ttf's and sockets, nothing is BiS until it is.
keen bloom
and how should i know who sims higher ?
keen bloom
i dont know both persons and how should i know who sims higher ?
rigid mango
Yah but why do u want them in thef irust hand
stable yarrow
lost wharf
@arctic walrus Oof, that crappy chest tho...
sour wasp
lel
arctic walrus
?? blackwater is bis
sour wasp
xdddddd
rigid mango
@lost wharf hope u know loyal is one of the best traits in theg ame for sin 
lost wharf
Ppl use it now? I'm always sucking dicks for ppl to use yet nobody does...
rigid mango
Wdym people use it now
IT's entirely down to whether your raid does or doesn't, if they do it's insane
lost wharf
My guildmates are always like "Don't have it" "Don't need it" "It's on a slot where another of my good skills is, sry"
sour wasp
scath why are you here
sour wasp
this aint sub
arctic walrus
is your guild full of demon hunters
lost wharf
Nah, but we are at Ashvane now and the freakin tank who soaks the orbs and dies doesn't wanna take it :<
arctic walrus
8.3.5 when they rework it I'll swing by
lost wharf
@sour wasp What's that supposed to mean?
rigid mango
round harbor
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VradcNK3PWzBjtHb#fight=28&type=damage-done @rigid mango whenever
stable yarrow
i neeeeeed gorakssss
round harbor
orm if anyone else wants to peek it aswell to tell me what to do better
dark crag
round harbor
ok so switch that around pretty easy fix
probly still muscle memory from when i played bote a month ago
rigid mango
Your TB windows are very underwhelming
You should aim to fit in 2+ envenoms in each TB
lost horizon
@dark crag probably no one actually holding CDs
desert pelican
is there a wa for coral debuff on nameplates?
uncut cave
for those on zaqul mythic with coral+font of power, do you line up the first punctured with coral /font of power or not, mine seem to be overlapping where if i use font the coral will be on CD and vice versa
round harbor
so when do i second pot on that fight?
rigid mango
uhh, anytime when you can align cds really
round harbor
@ roughly 6 minutes with final vendetta/guardian/coral?
\
uncut cave
only 435. font is 430 and coral is 445
round harbor
what you think about for me
rigid mango
Since you don't do anything for first uhh, 1:30 pretty much
round harbor
ill link trinkets in a sec
uncut cave
i think i will if we consistently hit 30% but till then think font might be better
rigid mango
You run any stacking trinkets
I mean, sure
In that case no real reason to optimise font usage
If you're not hitting sub 30% then you're just learning mechanics still
Damage doesn't matter yet
uncut cave
like atm when font first comes off CD and i use it insta i'll have to delay by burst by like 10 s for font up, feels weird etc. but would be alot easier/better taking inkpod
and yea damage isnt that relevant
round harbor
round harbor
PepeHands
round harbor
it feels weird to use both lol
round harbor
i mena i know how roughly
7 seconds pre pull, 10 seconds before in mid fight right?
its just weird cause sometimes i hold vendetta for a few seconds
and hard to plan around that
rigid mango
Uhh, nah that's wrong 😄
round harbor
monkaS
round harbor
ok so roughly what i was doing
5 seconds seems tight
for opener
barring someone being a mongo and prepulling
as far as multidotting goes on QC specifically, should i go out of my way to dot both or just when they are near/ mechanics force me onto silivaz
right now my job is to kinda sit on pashmer
and idk if thats the best idea or not
rigid mango
You can swap everytime your step is up
Generally what seems to be the way to play it is to full bleed and step each step rotation
novel tulip
does someone play assa in pvp ?
novel tulip
xD
round harbor
think its worth overiding pandemics right before i swap off main target?
novel tulip
nobody is writing there
novel tulip
ah okay
rigid mango
Nah, don't overwrite pandemic
novel tulip
thanks
rigid mango
Just wait for pandemic to hit, reapply and step
round harbor
gotcha
rigid mango
It's minimal gain anyways
round harbor
i think i was missing alot of CP and dmg from that
rigid mango
Eh, it's not a big deal tbh
round harbor
i would do like 15 seconds left on pashmer rupt and refresh to full then go over to sili
rigid mango
iirc starting on pashmar means you sync with abiliteis correctly
Yeah uhh, reapplying pre pandemic is big bad
round harbor
with coral what do you tihnk about not multi dotting at all??
like if i were to sit on sili
rigid mango
Esp if you're inexperienced with sin minmaxing just sitting on 1 is far simpler
Honestly, probably easier and better
The gain you get from multi dotting isn't anything big
round harbor
ive played sin alot before with like all 90+ parses, just this fight is kicking my ass
rigid mango
Fair
round harbor
like i HATE not being in top 3 dmg in my raid
but this fight ikr i want come even close to spriest/boomy/affi
i just dont wanna be the lowest either though lol
rigid mango
Unrealistic to be higher than any ranged tbh
round harbor
on that fight yea.
real bay
impossibru
round harbor
i can dust them on most fights as outlaw lol
but outlaw is pretty pepega for qc i think
rigid mango
Outlaws are meter kings so 🤷
round harbor
yeah this is the only fight im going sin this tier
i was wanting to be a one trick outlaw but.... yeah
rigid mango
Pretty sure you just dog the one boss and blast it real hard for your spriest to gain the dmg from 35% exec
round harbor
yeah we tried that and we werent even close on the enrage
real bay
if spriest stays alive 
round harbor
we are doing the equal cleave strat atm
real bay
like our
static wind
what do you guys think will burst harder, MA or Subterfuge for ashvane?
fringe epoch
steady owl
do you guys struggle with sin in dungeons this week? with sanguine and quaking its hard for me to stay on the mobs and not run around like a headless chicken avoding stuff all the time. Maybe ive just been unlucky with tanks
atomic willow
so if your trying to maximize your burst for sheild down on mythic ashvane would it be better to use a different potion then unbridled fury? i know that's the best for most fights but would say the agi battle potion or the crit one mby be better for that er no?
hazy flame
I think it depends on how you begin the fight
atomic willow
we doing 2 phase strat .....hold everything for shield down
atomic willow
kk......i been usung fury for both didn't know if anyone was doin anything different
sure it is not a big difference either way.....thnx
hazy flame
I am really uncertain about ashvane myself
I do way less dm then on other bosses couldnt figure out why tho
maybe it has to do with the armor piercing values
shut garnet
yo, could anyone help out with my parses being so low? not a clue whether it's gear orr bad rotation https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Npj87MFqR42KPLkA
worth noting i dc'd during radiance and sivara^^^
rough agate
coral elm
Hey guys. I'm curios what "normal rate" in the Fan of Knives tooltip means. Does the Envenom Buff also increase the poison application rate by FoK?
arctic walrus
stable plinth
Do you cloak as you click the console on Azshara or after you're done clicking?
bleak spoke
@atomic willow @hazy flame you always want to use unbridled on st, but the use is actually independent of vendetta in a way, cuz it scales off haste, strongest use of it would be unbridled in bloodlust
arctic walrus
bleak spoke
That looks like a parry
bleak spoke
Okay that is definitely wrong
shut garnet
so pot- mutilate - rup - mutilate - garrote - clf - vendetta - vanish - TB - envenom
dense cedar
parried 
shut garnet
i thought you wanted to vanish before envenom to potentially crit 2 back to back
dense cedar
I've been doing tb -> vanish
is that wrong?
didn't think the crit multiplier was worth using on it
bleak spoke
Tb van env muti env is also accurate
steady owl
that has to do more damage, 5cp envenom boosted by tb does more than one tb alone. seems like a wasted global off ma to me
bleak spoke
That’s what I mean
dense cedar
i mean on opener specifically
bleak spoke
+50% crit doesn’t mean you always crit
dense cedar
you should be going into vendetta with at least 3cp
shut garnet
true
bleak spoke
You’re misunderstanding
shut garnet
also, on bosses like orgozoa i tend to just multidot the adds and just use the crazy energy regen to nuke the boss, is that optimal?
bleak spoke
I mean the muti after env
Multidotting isn’t a single target gain, it’s actually net neutral
shut garnet
same with queens court, normally i do opener on one then do garotte rupture on both and focus one of them
bleak spoke
But your gain damage on adds
shut garnet
ah okay
As long as it isnt a dps loss in the sense that i couldve just tunnelled on boss instead of spending time and resources dotting
bleak spoke
It’s worth doing if rupture rolls for at least 60% if it’s duration I believe
shut garnet
oh yeah it does always
Normally i refresh on one also when its at 15% due to pretty much full energy refund when it does
dies***
bleak spoke
The refund isn’t worth if you don’t get at least 7 seconds of rupture roughly
Even though it feels real good
shut garnet
ah okay, thats good to know XDD
cobalt pelican
beautiful arrow drawing talents
bleak spoke
@arctic walrus “Famed Drawer of Arrows” yes or nah
shut garnet
my trinkets are also pretty Pepega for the time being
font and coral at 430 would be same ilvl but probably sim 5k more
dense cedar
👏
shut garnet
rofl
cobalt pelican
now i just need to do 700 islands and get a warlords trophy
lime marsh
So what should I take between benthic gloves and azshara gloves?
(I don't have the benthic gloves, but do have the azshara gloves, and wanna know if they'd be worth hunting)
hazy flame
benthic with or without socket and azshara with or without socket?
lean wing
having mage tower on assa done. can i unlock red appearance for 10 legion dungeons now ?
hazy flame
@lean wing yes
lime marsh
I currently have 415 azshara gloves, and again, don't have the benthic gloves. I'm wondering if they're enough of an upgrade to justify socket farming them and then upgrading it, or just waiting until I get azshara gloves at a higher ilvl
cobalt pelican
the affix on the benthic does slightly more damage than azsharas gloves on average, and is farmable for socket
it's worth it
if you can suffer the pearl farm
lean wing
should i wear kingslayers when i complete dungeons ? should i only complete mythic 0 ? i heard m+ is bugged
cobalt pelican
for example almost everyone on ashvane tonight did ~150k+ with poens of various ilvls
and the one guy playing azsharas at 430 did 113k (2 2min procs on a 5min fight)
even if you get a 3rd 2min proc by sheer luck they're slightly worse than poens
lime marsh
That's good to know. Thank you
hazy flame
@lean wing good question actually I only know that blizz stated it will or is possible
maybe even the transmog is enough
does someone have a mythic ashvane log that he is willing to post?
arctic walrus
Thanks I worked pretty hard on em
hazy flame
@lean wing maybe try different things and track what counts and what doesnt
like achievment tracking
signal crag
we use unbridled or the agi pot?
summer onyx
Working on mythic orgozoa, do people garrote the zoratoids if they arent empowered? Looking st some top parses it looks like people just apply ruptures before resuming ST on org
hazy flame
@signal crag unbridled
signal crag
TY @hazy flame
past harbor
Spyglass > Harlans for sin and outlaw in m+
amber arrow
@summer onyx when looking at top parses for it check who did most boss dam not overall dam
past harbor
?
visual quartz
The hidden apperance for kingslayers is the shit, Mogs so well with all of BoD gear
lyric finch
is there a particular benthic piece that is considered strongest for assass?
rigid mango
Boots
lyric finch
and would those for sure be better than 440 crit/vers boots at say ilvl 415
fervent jasper
How good is BBI in m+?
visual quartz
pretty sure socket benthic boots beats even 455 gear
lyric finch
wow
vapid scarab
just sim with droptimizer
hazy flame
boots> wrist > hands/belt
bleak spoke
It’s not a very large aoe probably 8 yds or so
placid mulch
Basically big enough for radiance/queen add cleave but not big enough for orgo add cleave
rigid mango
For orgo you want the abberation damage one anyways
placid mulch
True. I have socketed abb belt but just rolled the scalecrusher with socket but trying to figure out how to sim properly
ripe nimbus
when ur re killing queens court and u fat finger tab and use vendetta on spark and get 6 seconds of vendetta..
also entire raids inkpods went off when they were immune scuffed kill bois
lone junco
@ripe nimbus immune ink pod. That's funny.
timber pawn
is there any point where master poisoner beats out other t1 talents
distant lava
pvp
fleet whale
if the legion version returns
fallow otter
anyone around that has killed zaqul?
strange python
On what? N/H/M?
ripe nimbus
u forgot LFR
hexed meadow
fallow otter
mythic 🙂
just had a few pulls at the end of the night lastnight just to see the fight, im going down first delirium i wanna pick someones brain
if possible
tropic ocean
?
fallow cypress
Did something change with poisons? My deadly poison is seemingly doing a ton more dmg >.<
my stats haven't changed from last week lol
tropic ocean
Ofc raz downed ir
It
Hes like 2 dps
@fallow cypress did u accidently eq master poisoner
placid mulch
Or did you get a lot of mastery
fallow otter
"my stats haven't changed from last week lol"
fallow cypress
did not lol
tropic ocean
idk then
fallow otter
well i know what you did then
its the only possible reason
left
you put deadly poison on your dagger
fallow cypress
lol
fallow otter
😉
tropic ocean
either gear change or talent change
placid mulch
Did you have a demon hunter that you didn’t have last week
fallow otter
good idea
fallow cypress
nope, literally nothing has changed haha - no gear or stat/trait/essence or anything has changed lol
fallow otter
maybe more friends are using loyal til the end, and thus more mastery
fallow cypress
im not using it
fallow otter
ok well, where are the 2 logs
fallow cypress
yah ill look into them later tonight and see if theres a noticeable difference
placid mulch
Also if you’re getting better at your rotation you might be getting more toxic blade / envenom cross over
Thereby buffing poison damage
arctic walrus
fallow otter
@arctic walrus sweet thanks bro - yeh im going down first just looking at tips for making the most of delirium - all i have worked out so far is i can double vial but im not sure if i should be cloaking once my hp starts to dip. At the moment i get down there vial straight away then dps hard (im blowing vend @ 2mins not sure if i should be saving it for going down also) then healthstone then im not sure what to do before vialing again, do i cloak and drop the debuff then or do i keep it for popping back out? trying to save some trial and error legwork and trying to check logs is proving more difficult to track what people are pressing than i thought - sorry for wall of text
fallow otter
im first delirium group
arctic walrus
so you're gonna be killing the add
arctic walrus
so that's the only time you're in?
fallow otter
havent really got far through the fight we are still sorting it all out
arctic walrus
okay
fallow otter
so far just for prog we are pulling, killing adds and holding dps
arctic walrus
you use cds at ~2:05 when the dmg amp pops
fallow otter
yep
arctic walrus
when you go down yeah you'll vial first, get to 6-7 stacks cloak, then vial again
this will last you until the next group goes in
fallow otter
yep, ok im able to last until next group goes in, just wasnt positive if i could do that with or without cloak
arctic walrus
I would not recommend using pots/stones because you can use those later in the next delirium
you'll need cloak
fallow otter
yeh, the times i lasted was with cloak and i made it easy, but also used HS so wasnt sure, didnt get enough pulls in to keep testing
ok 7 stacks is pretty fast though? because im going down with like 4 or something? or am i missing something
that might be something to do with the way we are pushing the fight for prog?
fallow cypress
so i think it was a change with the details addon? theres 2 deadly poison dmg breakdowns in logs and now with details its combined into 1 i think
i just updated it so that may be why
arctic walrus
you gain stacks once you transition at 85% so yes you'll have stacks
fallow otter
ok great
ill copy you guys with 7
thanks @arctic walrus @tribal marlin saved me having to think about it until we next raid 🙂
marble elm
iron slate
just to get this straight as i already checked the pins. Am i only activating coral during vendetta windows otherwise just let it run? Also procc it sub 30%?
fleet whale
i think the sub 30% thing is only done if you have inkpod
fleet whale
then yeah, it's probably worth using it for inkpod, though it might depend on the fight. It can crit pretty damn hard
strange python
Whats an optimal amount of damage on pull roughly speaking for Sin?(with lust)
fleet whale
i've seen people peak at 100K, but sin should pull higher than most on pull regardless due to MA
strange python
Im seeing alot of rogues popping off at 100k range
iron slate
okay because like it seems odd not proccing it on cooldown
strange python
in raids ive been in
iron slate
same^^
arctic walrus
@marble elm 
strange python
The most damage ive pulled in heroic raid and i cant seem to get more, 30k dps and I sim at 37k so I think my opener is off somewhere..
My pulls range around 48-70kish
sudden ocean
Impossible to know without seeing your gear
cobalt pelican
just link a log with your opener p easy to find out if you're doing anything wrong
woeful minnow
double potting? greater flask? augment? optimal food?
cobalt pelican
though opener accounts for such an
woeful minnow
I doubt your opener is responsible for a 7k difference lol
cobalt pelican
insignificant amount of overall dps
arctic walrus
Imagine having a question about your logs but not linking em
sudden ocean
I can't imagine that
fleet whale
unless if you get a scuffed opener cause your tank pulls early 😛
strange python
Greater flask of currents, defiled augment rune, mech dowels big mech, poisons, unbridled fury at opener.
I will link logs in a sec
fleet whale
shouldn'
fallow otter
depends how lucky i am with crits, DD and lucid procs but somewhere around 70-95k dps
fleet whale
use feast
cobalt pelican
i feel like i'm waking up from like a month long wow slumber my character is GROWING
i even did world quests today
strange python
strange python
one sec
sudden ocean
Do you have no benthic or is this a set for outside of naz
woeful minnow
oh that explains a lot
fleet whale
why are you using lifeblood
woeful minnow
you have worldvein minor
fallow otter
queens court lastnight, i guess log shows higher i was only talking about details before and i dont stare at it
fleet whale
aka worldvein
woeful minnow
that's a sim padder right there
strange python
Im using what sim tells me to use
strange python
I did a sim for the bis rogue gear at 425 socketed with haste gems and it was liek around 1k dps
sudden ocean
you're using coral before your second cds
fleet whale
worldvein minor is almost never worth it. If using lucid major use either crucible or iris minor
cobalt pelican
opener looks pretty fine assuming you didn't crit anything so i wouldn't worry about it too much, the rest of the gameplay is p wonky though
woeful minnow
you're not syncing your coral with vendetta
you're kinda popping it whenever you want
cobalt pelican
like your first (and only) lucid cast is over 2 minutes into the fight
sudden ocean
you're also wasting cp
and your first lucid dreams isn't until like 2 mins into the fight
strange python
okay so I need to pop coral with vendetta and pop lucid on pull with my prepot?
sudden ocean
no
strange python
oh
fleet whale
not really, lucid major is used when resource starved, or after hero
fallow otter
Lucid Dreams:
Don't pair it with Vendetta. Delay it for energy starve during your Vendetta window (Sub 50 energy~). This will be right after the TB window, ensuring having enough energy for the remainder of Vendetta. However when BL/Hero is used on pull delay it further. Use it when starved and can't cast anything else.
sudden ocean
check the pins for what to do with your essences and your coral
strange python
my CLF is rank 2 i need to get that to rank 3
iron slate
so wait, are you only suppose to sync coral with vendetta?
woeful minnow
generally if you don't lust on pull your first lucid is right after your first tb window when you're energy starved
sudden ocean
Only sync coral with vendetta unless the boss will die before your next vendetta
strange python
Okay that is good to know thank you.
sudden ocean
Usually if the fight is super fast you can work it into a second CLF or something
iron slate
yeah. i was using it on cd before
strange python
If my sim says lucid major and world vein minor but its bad do I still run it
fleet whale
just don't use worldvein
sudden ocean
if it's bad don't use it?
strange python
ok
fleet whale
it' s not as good as it looks
fallow otter
when i was playing lucid major, depending on procs it could be delayed quite a bit but not as long as you have done. when i didnt have enough energy to do the next ability in rotation then lucid time
woeful minnow
worldvein never works as well as it sims
fleet whale
plus the sim may account for other people in your raid using it
fallow otter
@strange python do you have iris? i would use that if i were you
woeful minnow
default raidbots settings is 5 allies using it also
which is probably a lie 99% of the time
strange python
Once I get CLF 3 I will be using that but until then I go with crucible or iris 3
fleet whale
yeah, and that is almost never the case, esp in a heroic guild
sudden ocean
As I said, M Org would be the only place in the current content I'd be comfortable using worldvein
hoary apex
on mythic radiance, do people run any EB traits for adds? Or still build for ST with DD,NP,TTK?
fleet whale
if you're not comfortable using lucid major, you could try using crucible major assuming you have it at rank 3
woeful minnow
if you can hit 60 neck asap
sudden ocean
Noone to my knowledge whisky
hoary apex
ok, so stay ST?
woeful minnow
go crucible major lucid minor
strange python
Is there anything else wrong with my opener on that fight?
hoary apex
do people go outlaw that fight at all
sudden ocean
Some did in past but it's less popular now for obvious reasons
Radiance is such a nothing fight that I don't think it's worth the thought
cobalt pelican
besides coral placement and lucid not really no
sudden ocean
Aren't you in The Remaining Whiskey, thought you were QC or something?
strange python
Wow okay thanks, I had a feeling I was messing my opener up really bad
sudden ocean
As fairy said before, opener accounts for very little damage
get it right then forget about it and focus on your core fight mechanics and rotations
cobalt pelican
you have newer logs with like
worse play somehow
like this one was posted today/yesterday/whatever timezones
and is like.. completely different
hoary apex
No, must be someone else with Whiskeyjack as a nickname. It's from a fantasy series so probably fairly common
sudden ocean
Ah fair
cobalt pelican
just glancing at some of your kills on aug 21/22 it's kinda just like you make the opener up as you do like
you don't consistently make the same mistakes
but you regular make a couple of mistakes they're just random which ones they are
some pulls you're opening mut rupt garrote mut, some pulls garrote mut rupt mut mut
just as a general note like.. cast your pot before you engage in combat
almost all your fights you're potting at like 2 seconds somehow
cobalt pelican
i'm not sure what you mean, the opener?
cobalt pelican
yeah it was changed 2-3 weeks ago sometime
strange python
oh ok
cobalt pelican
it's like a net 50 dps difference or something though
strange python
Does it matter when I garrote under the master assassin window or should I open with garrote into mut till 4 points rupture and mut till window is over
cobalt pelican
there are two openers listed in the guide just
pick one, memorize it, roll with it
in the nicest way possible there are significant gameplay errors that can be resolved for significant gain, whether you cast garrote a global earlier or later is not particularly important
strange python
Master Assassin talented
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Rupture
Mutilate if still in master assassin window
Garrote
Vendetta
Toxic Blade
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Vanish
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
(I have been rolling with but im glad to know there were some changes :))
Thank you for the help once again, I will tweak my opener up to date with this new guide stick with it resim and take worldvein off.
hazy flame
dont forget clf
tribal marlin
anyone use pre-combat guardian ?
sudden ocean
no
hazy flame
clf before vendeta
cobalt pelican
doubt it, it seems pretty unintuitive even if it's a gain
so nobody was probably like 'this is good' and just did it anyway
arctic walrus
I did it for like 5 pulls on azshara but it was just dumb
tribal marlin
I'm pretty sure it's a win even considering the global cost (so guardian poped at -1 and not at -0.01 as sim state)
tribal marlin
I'm note sure it matter anyway
arctic walrus
literally 1
sudden ocean
and if the boss is a lust on pull 
mossy vortex
Hey. Im new to rogue and im having some troubles with rotations during raid bosses can anyone help me? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ad8x9qCLYbRHBtkf/#fight=5&type=damage-done ( I participated till the 3rd wipe.)
sudden ocean
Have you gone to the dummy and hammered out the rotation recommended on most contemporary sites such as wowhead, icyveins and Ravenholdt?
mossy vortex
Yeap.
sudden ocean
What have you highlighted as your problem areas
mossy vortex
But everytime i get into a raid i tend to miss several things
tribal marlin
seems to be a solid 0.2% increase on sims :3
cobalt pelican
soon my life will be font precombat guardian 360 shadowstep opener
i hate this game
mossy vortex
Im having trouble knowing when to stop pooling. I tend to start the mut mut envenom at 100 energy
tribal marlin
it's not only 1 global it's also first two mutilate +5% dmg buffed and 3 stacks at the start of vendetta
arctic walrus
you have horrible traits
tribal marlin
xD
sudden ocean
I suggest you scroll up and read what we were saying to Ross before, lots of the problems he was having apply to you
tribal marlin
360 noscop font precombat guardian dual garrote
mossy vortex
Ok.
sudden ocean
such as coral use, and global mismanagement
cobalt pelican
you don't really ever pool before mutilates
that's counter productive
you pool after mutilates
arctic walrus
you dpsed for 10 seconds with vendetta then stopped for 20 seconds
it took you 30 seconds to apply coral
you vanished almost a minute and a half into the pull
sudden ocean
TB windows are pretty lacklustre too
You're fanning in spots where a mutilate would have been better
tb before vendetta
tribal marlin
he said fanning
sudden ocean
arcane torrent not being used for an extra global in your tb window
mossy vortex
o o f
strange python
I look at other rogues and i see that at the beginning of their timelines.
sudden ocean
no, clf after MA opener, but before vendetta vanish window
Who are these other rogues
strange python
Unless im reading the timeline wrong lol, it shows the azerite guardian at the beginning
one sec
cobalt pelican
you're probably looking at the damage done timeline rather than the cast timeline
strange python
lemme see
fallow otter
this view might help
strange python
Thats what i was doing before but the rotation changed on the pins
sudden ocean
strange python
It depends on crit
civic palm
or 2 😐
strange python
oof lol
civic palm
imagine not being behind a boss before it's pulled O _O
strange python
🤢