cause he fat
#assassination
dark crag
Isn't it an st hit?
drifting cloud
its a cleave around your target
cobalt pelican
empty tide
It is single, but can proc from BF from what ive seen
empty tide
Some 360 noscope conch strikes
cobalt pelican
i think we're going to try 2phasing next week so hopefully we can make the damage
rigid mango
I woulda have r3 log on radiance
cobalt pelican
and i can do more than 42k dps for once
dark crag
4 yards says wowhead
cobalt pelican
ya, guess the belt oversims 4t patchwerk
cause they're ontop of each other
in the sim
should just get my abb b elt to 425 sometime after reset
cobalt pelican
it's a pipe dream
but you know
a gamer can dream
once in a while
from what i saw we're missing like 150k raid dps though so
yeee
dark crag
I have 3 benthics at 420. The fixed effects are not worth it in my eyes until i got wrist
cobalt pelican
i'm finally finishing up my pearl grind
and then ij ust have to pick up my 65 neck grind
because i'm like 2 neck levels behind
empty tide
Ye I just got 63
crimson condor
Wow just went from 2x ss 2x eb 1x ttk over to 3x ss 2x eb 0 ttk and it frickin rocks in m+
hazy iron
^ your single target must be gimped
dark crag
62,5 
empty tide
Playing without lucid on zaqul is 
rigid mango
1 ttk isn't really a big change
The change comes at 2ttk and I cba playing with only 1
crimson condor
46k on shark boss st
desert vault
So 3x SS is best for Tyrannical weeks typically?
wonder how 3x SS, 2x EB, 1x Blight would play on Tyrannical ...
crimson condor
will tell ya next week - that's what i'm running now
desert vault
3x SS, 2x EB, 1x Blight?
crimson condor
yep
desert vault
seems it would be better for Tyrannical ... I think
teal hatch
BIS trinekts for assisanation?
civic palm
455 Titanforged Socketed almost whatever you want
civic palm
Probably matters.
civic palm
No the item level and socket matters more than most trinket effects do.
So you're gonna want those, for BEST IN SLOT.
rigid mango
Miz is being intentionally vague because the question is stupid
in the world of ttf's and sockets
civic palm
Turns out there were stupid question after all, our teachers lied.
teal hatch
Yes but I meant something that I should be aiming for that is obtainable
civic palm
HD has a list of trinkets
https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Sim yourself for your answer
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot
civic palm
Check the fucking pinned comments.
desert vault
I wonder if dice+spyglass > coral+dice/spyglass, every thing 430s
dark crag
civic palm
I wonder if there's a website to find that out.
dark crag
Raidbots yourself
teal hatch
You guys are dicks.
rigid mango
civic palm
Better than just giving you a list and moving on, that's boring.
rigid mango
Why else am I here
civic palm
Well it's more about making someone feel like shit and then maybe teaching them where to find their answer, or ridicule them for asking the actually literally only stupid question there is, and then telling them why.
Momma always told me that making impressions matters, first impressions even more!!
Gotta make a strong one rather than a weak one.
rigid mango
Both seem like equally valid options
Feels weird to be on this side of the ridicule from you
civic palm
Yeah well just remember that you're not special, and everyone sees that side of the gun once in their lives.
O _O
rigid mango
I am special 
peak saffron
monkaGUN
rigid mango
dark crag
Todd "Skyrim" Howard
solid nova
drifting cloud
run the purple man is here 
civic palm
Dats Racist
fleet whale
Having 30% unbuffed crit feels nice not gonna lie
fleet whale
well, it does turn to 29% in the night lol
rigid mango
fleet whale
This is completely unintentional, but it just so happens that i have 20% haste, 40% mast, and 30% crit
ocean urchin
so guys ive checked the rotation from here and i got it down pretty solid just quick question tho. If i wait to cast vanish in the opener to just about when garrote is about to follow, doesnt it mean that next vendetta and vanish wont line up together? or should i delay that vendetta till i have vanish up?
latent gazelle
Are you running SS w/ sub?
latent gazelle
Then yes? Should be an opener guide on ravenholt. With a sub opener and MA opener. Haven’t played with SS in a bit but if i remember right then wait till your opened garrote and rupture fall off then vanish double garrote rupture
latent gazelle
^
ocean urchin
kk ty
shut pasture
what are the chances on good azerite rolls from vendor?
vapid scarab
yeah
civic palm
1 out of [Number of Possible Roles in That Slot]
shut pasture
really?
civic palm
You've left out some critical information.
shut pasture
iirc there's 6 variables
vapid scarab
once again, stupid question gets a stupid answer
civic palm
Mostly, the slot, and the traits you are looking for.
shut pasture
okay for 2/2/2 how many azerite combinations are there
I have Gold-Tasseled epaulets already
drifting cloud
yeah we clearly have that information, I know all the trait combos on all 18 azerite slots
maybe just look it up yourself ..
raw fox
how many of you are zandalari trolls in here
cobalt pelican
it's not like thaaaaat bad it's just not good and usually you either pick for racial or pick for style
and zanalari have neither
fleet whale
it was overhyped by a lot of people and it ended up being mediocre
visual quartz
alot of ppl being Blizz themselves
visual quartz
" lets marcket BFA for Ztrols and get twice the subs, then dont release em for 9months, then make em kinda bad" Gotem
fleet whale
but choosing a race just purely on damage is not a good idea imo just cause the difference in damage isn't that high
pick on looks or utility if you push
vapid scarab
I mean, you guys really overestimate the value of racials
every race has 1 damaging racial and they're all within 100 or so dps of each other
visual quartz
Oh yeah racials dont matter, always pick for looks
vapid scarab
they all also have a utility one, regeneratin' is fine
vapid scarab
it's not like you pick undead for 1% shadow resist
regeneratin' is way more useful than that yet people still play undead
rigid mango
Velf movement is nice in niche uses to minmax
vapid scarab
so is a lot of stuff tho
there's a bunch of random situations where one specific racial is actually kinda nice
rigid mango
I mean, to be a dps increase very few
visual quartz
playing Undead for 10years and trying another class and drowing at least once a day feels nice
rigid mango
Bar velf and nelf, unless they're on use damage shit
visual quartz
race*
rigid mango
Like another trinket type of deal
fleet whale
i just wish at this point i could pick perma crit for nelf, but it doesn't really matter that much either way
though with all of this being said, im not impressed with NB racials
civic palm
If only Crit and Haste were good fo-waitasecond.
vapid scarab
NB are the one race you can pick that's actually a dps loss
fleet whale
they are both good, which is why it isn't really a big deal to me
raw fox
idk, just dont like how blood elf looks anymore
Aside from utility differences, race doesnt matter at all anymore
cobalt pelican
wouldn't be surprised to see human be 500dps above dark iron by next tier
which is pretty sizable
i still pick what looks cool though
eternal turtle
question, do you play around elaborate planning in any way? like try to keep uptime as high as possible?
vast forum
as long as you're not overcapping energy or missing globals in TB/vendetta window, delaying finishers to use at the end of EP is good
eternal turtle
sounds good thnx
carmine valve
Hello, in raids are there Head/shoulder/chest pieces that you generally aim for ( this is m+ and eternal palace ). I had some idea for outlaw, but im clueless for Sin, The wowhead guide on sin only shows Eternal palace azerite trait, and dont bother with combining those pieces with m+
raw fox
if all my azerite slots absolutely suck (one tier behind) what 445 slot should I aim for to buy
drifting cloud
whats your guilds progress?
probably helm or chest, you can get engi helm tho
but the behe chest is really good in raid
harsh anchor
I got gorak tul 445 shoulders gambling - should I say fuck it and see what I get gambling for another 445 azerite piece
near apex
Ure aiming for chest,as u can get engi helm and the shoulders from radiance
distant lava
wdym say fuck it ?
dull osprey
why does sub sim so high? I thought it was low tier?
is it one of those "great on paper" specs?
cobalt pelican
depends what you mean by 'sims so high', like it's lower than assasination single target even on patchwerk and loses more when there is downtime
assuming you get close to 100% boss uptime the spec is pretty okay, it's just not realistic in mythic raiding
dull osprey
sims high in the grand scheme of dps
cobalt pelican
especially w hen there's an alternative spec that does everything you do better on the same class
cobalt pelican
you'd have to link what you're looking at
a lot of classes don't have t24 profiles yet
cobalt pelican
why would you trust this site either
there's no indication of what this is based on
dull osprey
also fair point
was just looking for a report that disproved guildie saying sub is good
he was the one who said they were #6
drifting cloud
maybe the fact its the least played dps spec atm?
pallid notch
does anyone have a WA for razor coral?
cobalt pelican
just use real world data from logs
like, there are a lot of weirdos around that think sub is much better than it is cause the landing page for wcl statistics is normalized damage and there's like 150 parses for sub
distant lava
what the fuck is this site 
drifting cloud
imagine the last time you saw an arcane mage, surv hunter or arms warrior (if you raid mythic)
all those specs still have x5 more logs on mythic than sub
cobalt pelican
and it's not even because it's like 'boring' cause there are a ton of people who'd play it if it was remotely close
dull osprey
same
I loved sub in legion
hence why I'm happy for the arms buff cause I tend to like playing things that are fun over optimal on anything other than my main
vapid scarab
we out here boys
civic palm
nosocketbenthicslot 😐
fair stag
hey guys what would be the best trait setup for Assa AoE in M+? how many echoing blades?
scarlet sequoia
4
distant lava
6
fair stag
....
sullen pagoda
0
vital haven
anyone that can help me to understand better the tc-updates regarding coral and font usage?
fair stag
welp thanks for the help
drifting cloud
np, try asking again tomorrow the same question that gets asked 20 times a day
and doesnt have a 100% accurate asnwer
scarlet sequoia
the answer is 1, 2 and 3
it all depends on affixes and dungeon
and what your grp is
desert vault
It's pretty great having 445s in every slot except rings and legs, close to the only non benthic spots ...
fair stag
Yeah I sim myself for Dungeon Slice but that can't be accurate for bursting a pack of mobs
Like in a M+ situation
I play Outlaw but just in case we get hella nerfed Tuesday
arctic walrus
You guys tb on 5 points even outside opener?
hazy iron
I don’t, should we?
inner tundra
granite rampart
you shouldnt but its not the end of the world if you got muti crits and got 5cps as tb is coming off cd
drifting cloud
its a st nerf aswell
dull osprey
I've always played as its more of a sin to not have the cp when TB comes of cooldown than to waste 1-2 cp
cause thats how you get 3-4 envenoms in the tb window
preferably you wouldn't waste them, but the damage from tb+3xenvenom > 1-2 combo points
void lynx
can anyone teach me how to play sin i saw someone pulling 42k in my group while i pulled 22k
i read all the guides and keep my bleeds up
dull osprey
there is a lot that could be wrong
void lynx
give me a couple pro tips please im desperate
ill suck your dick if you give me an address
small island
just hit the mobs
civic palm
@arctic walrus Taking energy into consideration if it leads to 3 ENV it should be a larger gain than delaying any amount.
and the wasted 1-2CP don't amount to much to begin with.
tawdry basalt
So quick question about the rotation on ravenholdt regarding 1 or more SS for toxic blade. IT opens up as garrote - rupture - then garrote again. How is that possible if it's still on CD
nvm specc'd wrong
disregard xD
crystal vault
civic palm
@tawdry basalt 👍
chilly marsh
is there a way to sim war battle shout vs scroll buff ?
dull osprey
god @crystal vault you're only a few ilvl higher than me and blowing me out of the water... must have garbo armor stats
crystal maple
In raidbots, anyone know if there is a way to set the uptime of Undulating Tides (similar to how you an set Treacherous Covenant uptime)?
civic palm
Not yet IIRC.
cobalt pelican
you can use the expansion options in advanced sim to set like
a lockout chance and a check interval
but not a set % uptime
has anyone done any big braining for the weaklings still trying to kill orgozoa after reset, should i just play singletarget assasination gear or is there any gains to playing some weird ttk build using fok as a builder
strange python
quick question, but for AoE, do we still cast FoK at 4cp?
raw fox
Anyone got a nice set of cooldown trackers? Just for big cooldowns, made my own weakauras but im missing those
civic palm
You spend most of all of your time casting Fan of Knives depending on pull size and DPS requirements.
Big Cooldowns that you can't find through the WeakAuras Templates?
raw fox
They all come in massive packages
strange python
well, I meant do we still use FoK at 4cp (to build to 5cp), or do we use our finisher first
raw fox
Just wondering if someone has a weakaura just focused on cooldowns
cobalt pelican
if you have a finisher you actually want to use then you would use it
ie. if you need 1 more rupture, or want to envenom a specific mob
short summit
I decided to main sin for keys now, what is the most effective way to use Vendetta in a trash pack?
or if there is any direction y'all can send me :)
strange python
😃
cobalt pelican
there's not really anything intricate, on cooldown on the highest health/priority mob in a pack
comes down more to dungeon knowledge than spec knowledge whether it's worth holding for the next pack or not
civic palm
@raw fox Most people tend to put their CDs where they like them when making WAs, not like the big ol trinket WAs with literally every trinket in it.
Though there might be something like that?
raw fox
Found something, just deleted a whole WA to keep the ones I wanted.
short summit
Good to know, thank you! @cobalt pelican
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
raw fox
I took your OI poisons
civic palm
That only makes sense.
raw fox
I spent too long making a set I saw a long time ago.
civic palm
This is why I upload mine really.
So I can't lose them without the whole damn website going down.
civic palm
o _o
low junco
people simming with font 
civic palm
o _O
drifting cloud
big upgrade 
low junco
might consider using it 
drifting cloud
no you wouldnt, dont meme
low junco
minmaxing dude
drifting cloud
ok you can have mine, ask a gm to send me your inkpod
cobalt pelican
i'd play font on like
low junco
thats a deal
cobalt pelican
any s hort reclear fight or heroic or something
wouldn't even think about it on anything real tho
arctic walrus
It's good on azshara dude 
low junco
cobalt pelican
inkpod is pretty butt on short fights
drifting cloud
yeah but its 445
low junco
i promised that ill give it back
drifting cloud
a guildie got 430 socket font and he couldnt trade it
low junco
its a 445
drifting cloud
and he had 430s
drifting cloud
and I got a 455 cannon 
low junco
dark crag
Pew pew
plain moon
What do you guys usually do with bubbles on ashvane?
arctic walrus
wipe group if you get it
low junco
@arctic walrus that happend once
not on my side tho
but the boomie decided to go into the melees and wipe us
it was probably the 1st kill aswell
quasi pewter
some boomkin wildcharged on our soak tank that stood with the melees instead of the tank that had bubble and bubbled whole melee camp
wintry mica
is crimson tempest worth using in higher keys over poison bomb if you need more trash damage?
low junco
i dont think so
vapid scarab
in a world where EB exists CT is just a wasted global
wintry mica
What about with no EB traits?
cobalt pelican
if you're playing 0eb i'd imagine it's probably a gain to play ct on any key level
but it's also counter intuitive to like
be playing 0eb
and want trash damage
unless you're like actually naked gamer
Iron Man Mythic Plus from Scratch
wintry mica
nah i just have trash luck with azerite
civic palm
PBOMB is also probably more damage due to the finisher frequency.
low junco
what do u mean by higher keys if u have no eb
wintry mica
i just mean like things above 10 so nothing too crazy
drifting cloud
you know you arent forbidden to wear 415 azerite
I doubt you have been that unlucky
low junco
415
drifting cloud
my assa m+ set has 2 415 slots, good enough for 15s
dark crag
There were plenty of 415 azerite emissaries
civic palm
There were PLENTY of benthic bracers.
zenith gust
Maybe he started playing rogue 3 weeks ago, give him a break
low junco
dark crag
low junco
FAKE SUB
civic palm
Tht's n mprtnt cmpnnt.
dark crag
When i get fish chest i give sub a go
cobalt pelican
seems pretty playable on orgozoa after the outlaw nerfs to be honest
raw fox
if all my azerite is from battle tier and i got enough to buiy a 445 piece, what slot would probably be the best upgrade
chance wise
tribal marlin
run droptimizer
cobalt pelican
i've been playing around with gearsets and my options are like, just play assasination and hit the boss and sim at like 47k whatever single target boss damage or play sub and do like 52k simdps to boss and like 25k to the ads
but idk
civic palm
ah yes
the triple replicating shadows build
WHY DO I HAVE SO MANY OF THESE TRAITS?!
tribal marlin
I'd say that Chest and Shoulders will probably give you best chance of good pieces but droptimizer will tell yu the numbers
dark crag
To replicate
cobalt pelican
while richard is sleeping i can ask in here and not get told off
does replicating shadows reach the zoatroids
(i ask this as a subtletly beginner)
dark crag
What does a 430 piece cost?
cobalt pelican
9000
tribal marlin
no it's way more
civic palm
Even says NEARBY, whack.
Though I assume it's spreading from the source so it still might not reach?
tribal marlin
I did some testes about it early 8.1 and like it spreaded long range like 30y
dark crag
Somewhere between 1 and 50
cobalt pelican
perfect
civic palm
Wish my fucking dick was that NEARBY.
cobalt pelican
grats
tribal marlin
like for example being max range from the Raid dummy in boralus
civic palm
Classic Blizzard Tooltip
tribal marlin
it spreaded to the the little dummie on the right
dark crag
Doesn't it spread from the mob?
civic palm
Yeah that's like 20y or something o _O
tribal marlin
yes I know it's crazy but it's what I experienced
strange python
That’s crap for m+
civic palm
Actually it's probably 10y.
This is 10y
from my model.
to right dummy
unless Fan had a wider range in Legion.
strange python
U can see it hit the third sometimes though
strange python
Jumping = wider range?
strange python
lul
dark crag
Could test it with a duel and hitting a dummy
civic palm
The WA there is meant to track range the only way addons can atm, through nameplate interactions.
dark crag
How far rs spreads
civic palm
but the center-mass hitboxes are spherical unless they are whitelisted otherwise.
So you get the weird interaction where if you jump you can "increase" your rangE.
civic palm
to far right
empty ravine
is this punch card trinket like really good?
civic palm
Like really good.
civic palm
Better than Dice yes
empty ravine
wtrf
civic palm
Just SIM it.
empty ravine
why the fuck is it that good
plain moon
Do I use my razor coral with vendetta no matter the stacks?
empty ravine
just feels like there are some trinets that are way better than what the ilvl infers
i think using coral like prepull wont pull a raid boss
if that is the case then just use coral prepull then use the crit effect after vend
i just macro coral and vendetta
plain moon
Doing ashvane prog where I dont vendetta right on pull
civic palm
Do note that Punchcard is only that good due to Cyclotronic.
get good stats on your yellow, as high item level as you can.
this being Cyclotronic.
devout gazelle
guys we have any good guide for sin keys about traits essenses etc?
mossy abyss
what essences have you guys been running for m+? iris+lucid?
lusty narwhal
That’s the go to yes
deft nymph
is there any kind of an estimate as to how overrated poen gloves are in sims
got 435 azshara gloves, wondering if they might be better
deft nymph
hmm 34 hits on dmg
12 on heal
on that last fight
i guess it prob gets worse on stack fights
vapid scarab
no, the proc happens irrelevant of if people are in front of them or not
the damage is ~65% proc rate, that's it
deft nymph
ah
vagrant urchin
Guys, How much % of each stat should i have using MA and no SS?
vapid scarab
whatever the gear you have that gives you the biggest number in top gear gives you
vagrant urchin
Oh, ok
faint quiver
Guys
Just got the azshara font, 430, wich is better, this or dribling inkpod 435?
In single target
terse pecan
font i would say is better single target.
dull osprey
fffffffffff
balmy quest
and you'll want them with sockets too, so get out your alt characters if you haven't already
dull osprey
I didn't think so, but it sims that way
balmy quest
TC uptime in reality will bring it in line with NP, so you're better off taking the one that doesn't get you killed in prog
dull osprey
ah, so NP is the better one
balmy quest
Yeah TC is only better if you can keep close to 100% uptime
drifting cloud
TC is almost never going to be the thing killing you
dull osprey
prob gonna buy a 445 helm tuesday anyways
balmy quest
True but if you get the same performance in reality from NP why wouldn't you just run NP?
drifting cloud
well he said it sims better, I dont know what that is in a number
but its probably sure close and you wont have TC at 100% uptime normally
and dont use worldvein in raids, its borderline useless except like 2 bosses
dull osprey
again, I'm trusting the sims... since thats the answer I get most from guild and here lol
drifting cloud
have you read what worldvein does?
dull osprey
I seem to get decent uptime with it, even moving
drifting cloud
youre never going to be 4 stacks
balmy quest
do you all have level 3?
dull osprey
yeah
rigid mango
Very few bosses actually havr decent uptime
dull osprey
still waiting on lvl3 CLF
gloomy jolt
Hey y’all I’m trying to get a sub set together Incase tomorrow hard take outlaw. I checked the ravenholt guide but it seems like there’s a lot of different setup. What would be the best new sin friendly rogue setup for traits and talents?
restive smelt
Did you mean Sin?
gloomy jolt
Yeah a sin set
balmy quest
Trusting the sims is fine you just need to understand that a patchwerk sim involves taking no damage and no movement. Damage affects traits like undulating tides and treacherous covenant while movement impacts other things e.g. worldvein.
gloomy jolt
Sorry lol.
dull osprey
yeah
vapid scarab
the ideal setup for ST is 3x DD and some combination of NP/TtK/loyal with as many OP as possible
balmy quest
Use them as a source of information, not as a bible on what to do.
vapid scarab
cleave and aoe are different
dull osprey
what about stat weights? cause atm I have 15% haste/30% crit/40% mast feels like the haste is a little low
balmy quest
stat weights don't matter, use what top gear tells you to use
vapid scarab
you use the gear that your top gear sim tells you to take and those are the stats you end up with
dull osprey
gotcha, its only traits I gotta think
balmy quest
stats aren't impacted by movement/taking damage in the way that traits/trinkets/essence are
vapid scarab
I mean movement would impact haste quite a bit
carmine valve
How far behind is subt+SS compared to MA in raid. I use SS in pvp and m+
vapid scarab
it depends what you have
balmy quest
depends on your gear
carmine valve
I dont have acess to 3 DD only 1. But I have access to 2 SS and 2 ttk
vapid scarab
okay, so run a top gear sim with both talents
i can tell you now with 2 SS sub is going to be better
but to answer your question of exactly what the difference is you need to sim
carmine valve
Oki thanks
balmy quest
I believe 415 is the highest azerite gear you can get that has DD+SS+OP
So generally you'll end up making the switch to MA eventually
strange python
is ass a viable 10 to 13+ mythic spec, or do I need certain speciffic traits? Currently running outlaw but just got my hands on two 430 daggers this week.
granite rampart
assassination is viable up to 20+
bleak spoke
Man 3 ss 2 ttk blightborne goes so hard this week with the smaller bolstering pulls
You just slam
@granite rampart assa is the second best m+ spec as of this present moment possibly best on Tuesday
And it beats every other dps spec that isn’t outlaw by a mile
strange python
cool, good to hear.
bleak spoke
I played outlaw last season to push for control but even then at the end of last season when there was an aoe throughput problem in the bleeding edge keys we’d sit there and be like can we afford to have one of the rogues go sin for damage
rigid mango
I think outlaw retains the first spot in groups for the utility
bleak spoke
Usually the answer was no because of a skill problem rather than a spec problem
rigid mango
I'm more interested in the second spot
strange python
yea, im basically just tired of sucking in raid as outlaw, lol
cause im to lazy to change azerite traits constantly.
bleak spoke
I think we play outlaw sin dh next season or outlaw sin ww or outlaw sin rdps
Err
On Tuesday
rigid mango
Aye, I agree
bleak spoke
I’m still in denial
rigid mango
Wednesday for me
bleak spoke
I just played some lower keys (14s 15s) and it felt really really good, I think it might feel even better in higher keys
Also last night I got pumped by a sin rogue in underrot
bleak spoke
Though underrot is traditionally an incredible sin dungeon
bleak spoke
man i got fucking slammed https://i.imgur.com/Mp5kejP.png
bleak spoke
Okay facts is actually the best though
He had 25% font of power uptime and 51% blaster master uptime
Like
rigid mango
rigid mango
Idk, I think sin is in a really good spot atm
bleak spoke
That means in a dungeon literally every 30 seconds out of 2 minutes he had font up
rigid mango
We'll just have to wait and see how good
civic palm
Not as good as OTL :3
rigid mango
Probably not
civic palm
Will obviously be closer at least.
bleak spoke
Idk man ruin’s a better rogue than me but look at that screenie
civic palm
I do not believe that to be truuuuuu, but we will seeeeeee.
bleak spoke
it's the control options
sin and outlaw are very similar dpswise if you play sin very well yeah
rigid mango
Yeah, I mean I was talking from deeps only not utility
bleak spoke
like at the very highest level they're the same but with different profiles
drifting cloud
nah even seli gets clapped by outlaws in most dungeons
civic palm
One must remember, that a potato can play OTL.
drifting cloud
by 10-15k on overall
civic palm
Yeah somewhere around there.
civic palm
At least ye.
drifting cloud
yeah in wv19 or 20 he had like 50k overall, outlaw had 65
rigid mango
I don't think I've seen that big a drop between ant 2 rogues
drifting cloud
but thats probably a really good outlaw dungeon
rigid mango
That I've played w all season
Wcm is outlaw central
Idk, even this season I've not seen damage diff issues on my part atleast
drifting cloud
I think outlaw might still have a slighty edge
drifting cloud
but it could also just go some weird ww, dh meta
marble elm
doing more than 1 key a week 
rigid mango
I think outlaw's still better, easier to play and gear
I don't think the general consensus swaps away from otl
civic palm
OTL has more an edge than people think, but THANKFULLY, this might let some people in MDI play what they actually want to play.
Some people were faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar behind.
civic palm
Imagine me remembering their names O _O
rigid mango
There are specs that are capable of keeping up
rigid mango
I think ww is standard in keys now
Yeah
The mdi ones atleast
Maybe we'll see more flexpicks like udk and shit come in too
rigid mango
I think ww has higher prio in comps since it'll still be 2 outlaws probs
I'm interested if any sin comes around
civic palm
Could be 1 in the spot of an OTL, don't see why not.
drifting cloud
dont forget both dk specs get buffed same time
civic palm
Yerp.
drifting cloud
and then you can run monk healer which is strong aswell apparently
rigid mango
Hpala possibly
civic palm
prepares4aDumbQuestion
drifting cloud
problem with hpala is they cant be nelf
grizzled bough
MDI is about speedrunning, so the teams will find the new “meta” in no time and will run with that. we’ll see the same mirror matches, at the top at least
drifting cloud
they have whole runs just made around nelf
civic palm
Course.
drifting cloud
it would be easier if it was just banned tbh
grizzled bough
nelfs are needed when they want/need to skip a void
marble elm
1st mdi was the best
white basalt
Guys, lets keep it assassination related.
onyx hazel
is echoing blades really this trash?
onyx hazel
blood mallet says it sims 11 dps
peak saffron
echoing blades is great for m+
onyx hazel
i did
winter moss
maybe switch to hectic add cleave before bothering people with a question like that
onyx hazel
maybe be kinder? instead of a douche?
winter moss
why would i?
echo cargo
peak saffron
so the reason bloodmallet would be simming it so low is because in a pure ST situation, you wouldn't been using Fan of Knives at all, and would get no value out of Echoing Blades
peak saffron
it's a great trait for dungeons. people generally run 2-3 of it depending on the affixes
hazy iron
I wouldn’t say he was being a douche when you provided no context to your question what so ever
If all else fails, look at what other rogues are doing and go from there
tame basin
Hey guys. Can you tell me when the benthic gear starts to fall behind normal higher ilvl gear? I was so bad luck with rolling it (spend around 1k pearls and got correct bracers). Right now I have 435 belt / 450 boots / 440 wrists / 445 hands and I don't know if it is worth to invest into benthic or not
winter moss
fleet whale
boots at like 420 ilvl will be better than any pair you can get
winter moss
unless you get the gigaforges + socket its pretty hard to outsim benthics in nazjatar or the eternal palace
prisma carbon
just droptimize yourself and you can see how strong benthics are compared to even mythic EP loot
fleet whale
i kind of hope in 7.2.5 blizz adds a way to boost our benthic pieces past 425
winter moss
wont happen
fleet whale
maybe through a currency you can only get in raid
winter moss
after the tier is through you scrap them anyway
wise whale
can you give me some dps tipps for heroic court?
rigid mango
Stick on one target
Stick on melee dude until he charges, step to caster and keep attacking
When you need to move back save sprint/step/general movement and get back to melee one
peak saffron
don't worry about multi-dotting inside your toxic blade/vendetta windows 😃
wise whale
thx guys
bleak spoke
Okay multidotting in windows is always big wrong on 2t
During decree I multidot sometimes
fleet whale
I don't really find that much time to Multi dot on boss fights with MA. I mean, i'll still do it when i can, but i just find myself really sticking to one target most of the time
bleak spoke
Like let’s say it’s 5 seconds to tb and I’m at 3 cp on a muti
I’ll garrote rupture off target and then come back and muti tb etc
Cuz if you can get the poison on your off target then big worth
The other thing is you’re target blind out of vendetta, there’s no reason you can’t just stay over there and Tb that one instead lmao
If you have dots rolling on 2t you can guarantee enough energy for 3 envenoms
It’s quite strong
peak saffron
okay so we agree?
bleak spoke
With MA I’ve tried something like g1 m1 r1 m1 m2 r2 g2 vendetta but it’s never been as successful as just sticking on one target
peak saffron
yeah with MA, you don't multi dot in openers
wise whale
so i will multidot when its fitting to boss mehcanics and when i am not sabotaging my cd windows? BUt by no means im am aiming for 100% uptime on both targets
peak saffron
yup
bleak spoke
You can multidot with ma out of windows yeah
In windows it takes literally 10 seconds of looking at the kit to realize you should probably hit the one that’s debuffed lol
fleet whale
that's when i multi-dot, so long as the bosses aren't miles away from each other
bleak spoke
My only real question is in 2t stacked cleave if it’s ever worth to fok to bridge cp when poisons are on in vendetta but out of tb
But with dd traits still probably not
peak saffron
you can also snipe low health adds with bleeds for the energy gain from when they die with bleeds on them
bleak spoke
No that’s not correct
For rupture to be energy efficient in a raid setup
You shouldn’t rupture for refund
The rupture needs to tick for 30%ish of its duration
peak saffron
so just put up a 1-3 point rupture \
bleak spoke
Unless it’s meaningful dam
No low point ruptures are even less energy efficient what
fleet whale
tbh with lucid i feel even less the need to multi dot
peak saffron
I don't see how it would be a loss if you're in an energy lull, and have the chance to snipe a dying add for instant energy gain, that it wouldn't be a gain
unreal perch
the question comes if using combo points, some energy and a GCD to get a small bit of energy back is a dps gain
you don't generally want to waste combo points like that
winter moss
all that could have been on envenom
unreal perch
I also don't think you're getting that much energy from a 1, or even a 3 CP rupture
winter moss
which i prefer instead of artifically speeding up the gameplay by rupturing random mobs that die
peak saffron
yes there are a lot of factors that come into play
unreal perch
it really just doesn't seem that worth it lol
honestly I doubt 3 point rupture, even if the enemy dies THAT SECOND gives enough energy back for a single mutilate
crisp hollow
is there a breakpoint or general range where mastery overtakes haste in pure ST
winter moss
no breakpoints
crisp hollow
my ST setup is almost entirely devoid of mastery so im just concerned it's too low
but all sims point towards gemming and enchanting crit and haste still
(i ran a different sim to determine what gems to use, all haste with 1 agi lol)
should i expect versa to spike in value when i get clf r3 on tues?
rigid mango
Not really
Crit goes up a bit, so did haste for me anyways
Vers and mast are both a fair bit behind
crisp hollow
should i expect coral to shift my weights much?
crisp hollow
my azerite and trinkets still blow but im pleasantly surprised to see myself almost break 40k at 426 despite them
solid nova
@cobalt pelican 
first ones free
crisp hollow
from droptimizer, gorak tul's is like a 3k dps increase for me lmao
tho that was 0 loyal allies
wonder how much of a jump it is at 3
rigid mango
Afaik those shoulders sim similarly to goraks with 4 loyal and same ilvl
crisp hollow
its pretty close on whether or not i should be spending chalk on a chest or shoulders these next few weeks
cuz behemoth chest pretty close to cephalopod from what ive seen
rigid mango
I'd argue blackwater is better
crisp hollow
probably just shoulders cuz no OP on radiance ones haha
marble elm
2nd boss chest being close to or just as good as vendor chest and there’s no bis hats on the vendor
crisp hollow
engi head better than 5/6 from vendor according to droptimizer yesterday
tho eventually i'll want one for M+ that isn't 420
marble elm
I’m using engi Gorak tul blackwater right now
I have ceph but can’t wear yet and not sure if I will
rigid mango
I don't think it's worth using cepha in a world where anyone can die with it and the dps increase is significant
marble elm
I have looyal with either setup
crisp hollow
i'd use cepha for EB+ttk personally
rigid mango
You have both shoulders and both chests?
crisp hollow
if i had to choose between it and blackwater
marble elm
I have Gorak tul and ceph and blackwater
marble elm
Loyal on zaqul helm and np Gorak with ceph vs np zaqul, blightborne and behemoth
uncut cave
i have gorak tul and ceph at 445 too but still no mythic weapon lol
ripe nimbus
this tier has been very sad for me gear wise. simming 5k less then the other rogue in our raid.
marble elm
Simmed like 80 difference for me
ripe nimbus
hurts my feels
marble elm
In favor of ceph
rigid mango
What do you sim for anyways?
I'm trying to break 47k next week, but that'll need good luck
crisp hollow
@ripe nimbus with good rng on tuesday I can sim as much as the sim you sent me last night at like 9ilvl lower, your gear luck is finally not godly 😦
makes your 99's on first 3 more impressive tho imo
not carried by gear
crisp hollow
how much did the single attempt at JC ring cost?
mighty elm
just get them mechagon rings and u gucci (:
mighty elm
nah, ive fell behind every single rogue in the game
marble elm
need backstab ring https://i.imgur.com/guYEkNM.jpg
mighty elm
week one was my peak
marble elm
unsocketed base is like 200 dps
mighty elm
2 shoulder rolls in a row and they are both below my 420 goraks still 
mighty elm
marble elm
Those are big
mighty elm
one GORAK PLS
marble elm
My luck this tier making up for my rolls last tier
mighty elm
when i got all those fat items first HC week, i knew i was doomed for this tier
not a single item was looted after that
mighty elm
marble elm
First mythic zaqul hat traded to a Druid 
mighty elm
i got it over the druid 😄
rigid mango
I'm 2nd rogue in prio, and 2 boomies before me too
I'm faaaaar away from getting that
crisp hollow
it slipped my mind that benthic wont be used in keys so i'm in the market for a new belt/gloves/wrist
thank god for crafted feet
rigid mango
Thank god for my socketed mythic ashvane wrists at 450
mighty elm
imagine doing keys outside of weekly
mighty elm
rigid mango
marble elm
Keys 
rigid mango
Not doing keys
marble elm
1 key a week
rigid mango
crisp hollow
damn
marble elm
Did keys for 1 day to get rank 4 beam
crisp hollow
not this week
marble elm
I’m all keyed out
crisp hollow
i still need to grind for socketed rings
rigid mango
Biggest socket upgrades so ye
crisp hollow
hopefully i get one during the long hours spent in siege for a spyglass i'll never see
crisp hollow
now that gathering is in the toilet and i cant sell carries for a long time
400k may as well be 9mil
crisp hollow
whoever "loans" that to me better be prepared to see that money around patch 9.2
rigid mango
Ah shucks
crisp hollow
i just hover at 120k and passively make back the minor expenses of mats every week
marble elm
yea it is
Did it for a year had a great time waking up at 4 pm every day
Now I’m just a wagie
crisp hollow
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4yLK3gmDZUq7prKzZa4GKX lmao somehow even monstrosity shoulders are an upgrade
rigid mango
marble elm
Scrap your shoulders to gamble
rigid mango
Got tent laced 
marble elm
It’s the play
crisp hollow
im weirdly optimistic, there's 2/6 things in every slot that suck for M+ and raid
rest are either/or
and once im sufficiently geared it will be time to religiously watch Seli so i know exactly how much psi to apply to my FoK key
crisp hollow
with EB do you FoK 2 targets?
ripe nimbus
yes
rigid mango
I'm a man of foking at 3cp, muti at 1-2
It's more cp efficient that way
If you need the prio, you do that
marble elm
I’m tryna pull 13 mobs and unbind everything but fan
rigid mango
3eb and u'll pump
marble elm
My mythic+ gear is so scuffed
frigid briar
Whos progressing/killed mythic court? What pot did you use? Been thinking of agility but im kinda torn.
marble elm
Every tier I scrap everything but what I’m wearing to gamble
rigid mango
Night has
marble elm
I just used unbridled fury
rigid mango
I skipped out on court prog 
winter moss
@frigid briar im sticking to fury. mostof the time it is st
rigid mango
It's mainly aboyt boss damage, right?
winter moss
rigid mango
Fury all the way
frigid briar
Few of the top logs are running agi pot, need to squeeze every last piece of juice from my gear, we have a less than ideal set up
winter moss
cleaving on this fight should be left to other classes
we dont even have a shadow wdym
strange python
I managed to get 3 EB traits for my m+ assa, do I need 2 SS or is 1 enough?
marble elm
It’s been a while since I checked but I think the difference between agi and unbridled fury isn’t that big
winter moss
it doesnt matter that much as i noticed during prog
you burn down 1 to 35
then you burn down 2
and just try to balance it in the end
marble elm
I just re dotted when I had step or the opportunity to
Didn’t go out of my way to waddle over there
rigid mango
You guys don't run SS's do you?
marble elm
No
winter moss
rigid mango
Hey it's a dps increase mac
winter moss
not my part to fulfill
rigid mango
Maybe not
frigid briar
Keeping both dotted before 2nd pot around 5 minutes im doing 47k. If I can find a way to pump that to 48k or 49k it would help alot. Some peoples damage is really questionable and I think everyone needs 38k minimal for enrage
rigid mango
But dps 
winter moss
progress > logs
rigid mango
I think you have somethinf wrong in your head mac
marble elm
It is
rigid mango
Aye like it seems stupid easy
frigid briar
I dont get how people just randomly flop due to spark
winter moss
most of the time when the 2nd "dont recast" decree is around
rigid mango
I'm just gonna blast and ignore
winter moss
first round is ok. 2nd round is
frigid briar
Yeah we are wiping at 2nd dont cast aswell
marble elm
Scariest part for potential deaths I think is the lightning decree with sparks
winter moss
^
frigid briar
Yeah be a shame to not have cheat death 😂 👌
winter moss
seen some melee a-d-game during lighting
the whole time
absolute mad lad
he died obv
marble elm
I tried cloaking with 6 stacks and running around to clear and the debuff never went away and never did damage to me
Even after cloak faded
frigid briar
Dunno its hard to drop the stacks sometimes
marble elm
I did it once more so idk how reproducible it is for sure
frigid briar
Yeah night theres suhin weird with cloaking that debuff
Sure iceblock can bug it out aswell
marble elm
You can also stand and walk around in the aszhara beam if cloak fades while you are in it
frigid briar
We noticed sometimes immunities just mitigate the whole duration damage
marble elm
I tried it with 2 stacks and it didn’t work so idk if it depends on stacks or it’s random or there’s something else to it
frigid briar
Something else to it I think
Mage said he could replicate it by just blocking when at 3 stacks but didnt work for cloak
hot verge
Hey folks - sorry if this has been asked before, but I tried to use the search function to see if it had: what's the proper use of Coral/Font combo?
Is it OK to sacrifice 20 seconds of coral for the font of power? Seems really janky for me, but it's what sims the best ofc for single target. Not sure if it's just better to get a inkpod/spyglass/dice instead for ease of use.
rigid mango
It's directed to it in the pins :D
sullen pagoda
people discussing court prog and meanwhile im forced to play my lock