For keys +13 and higher, what has everyone been running here in terms of essences and trinkets?
#assassination
peak compass
rigid mango
Blood and iris always work
lone junco
makes no difference in a 5 min window probably. shorter the window the more impact the opener makes.
rigid mango
It's sub 100 diff in the end afaik
lone junco
lol.
so without env up, neither is actually proccing DD enough to be reliable.
grats on mut crit non dd then.
without DP
But luck procs give you double dd. Double dp double crit. 4cp rupture.
young jewel
What’s meant by “new way” and “old way”? Like what changed to cause the opener change?
cobalt pelican
nothing really changed
we have way more stats than we did in the past so the value of a crit mutilate without dd proc is probably better than it has been but
it's also probably the first time the opener was reviewed since uldir
young jewel
Ah ok
reef frigate
how much haste is too much haste? i hav 23% haste, 32% crit, 21% mastery rn
subtle tundra
reef frigate
ok, thanks 😃
glass cairn
is SS mandatory to even compete in AOE on M+?
vapid scarab
It helps
rigid mango
You need one ss
vapid scarab
You want some combination of SS/EB/TtK, which changes based on the affixes, group comp, and dungeon
glass cairn
the thing is that i dont wanna change traits that much, i kinda want them to be viable in raids aswell
not an overhaul
rigid mango
Then you've come to the wrong spec
vapid scarab
Play outlaw then
gloomy slate
i ended up getting the puffer bracers with socket. not sure if i should keep trying to get the frost ones. anyone know the dps differences between puffer and frost bracers at max level?
rigid mango
They're pretty much equal.
sour wasp
if you play ss sub like me, you won't change specs much @glass cairn
ss sub is more universal
gloomy slate
ok cool, ill just upgrade the puffer for now
rigid mango
It can suffer from boss movement, but even on ashvane my puffers were within 0.06% of most high ranking logs' frost ones
glass cairn
but isnt MA better on ST with DD traits?
gloomy slate
excellent, that works for me. ty for the help
rigid mango
It is @glass cairn
sour wasp
the difference isn't significant imo
rigid mango
Big enough
sour wasp
and with the right stats (or completely wrong), it sims better
like it did for me lmao
rigid mango
I wouldn't recommend it for anything raid related anymore unless killtimers are in the 1-1:30 area
Where SS is insane
sour wasp
zine is just no fun man
sour wasp
oh god
rigid mango
rigid mango
debates pinging
steady owl
are you saying that ss and subterfuge is better on single target than ma and dd?
limber flame
My sims say that is a lie
rigid mango
On those fight timers, yeah.
If you can kill super fast
Subt means consistant "burst" for what, 40 ish secs
Exsang can even be good there 
crimson condor
gear buying question for m+ - i'm 1500 resid shy of buying a random 445 helm. current helm has eb + SS on it but is 420. should i buy a 430 piece and hope for good traits or wait and get a 440 tues
rough yew
Is there a way to adjust sims to pre-sim for the changes on Tuesday to test out some new setups / builds?
velvet geyser
Heyy, what kinda overall damages on average are you folks seeing in 10 ~ keys?
rough yew
Depends on the key
rigid mango
~45k+ is always good
rough yew
But id say most outlaw I’m seeing is in the 40k range
Good performers anywhere 45-50k
Really depends on dungeon and pulls
hazy canyon
What changes to sin are there on Tuesday? @rough yew
rough yew
Wits nerf and blade flurry nerf
velvet geyser
I dont think sin has any, other than a flood of respecs from outlaw
rough yew
@hazy canyon
rigid mango
Think he typed in wrong channel
velvet geyser
Yupp
rough yew
Oh god wrong channel
velvet geyser
lol
rigid mango
Npnp (:
rough yew
Hahahaha
hazy canyon
LEAVE NOW, and never come back (until Tuesday when you respec)
velvet geyser
^
rough yew
❤
crimson condor
any tips on farming titan resid? im 1.5k shy of a 440 piece :/
velvet geyser
im giving 3x eb and 3xss a go, it feels pretty good this week
rigid mango
Seems like an atrocious idea ngl
gleaming viper
@dense cedar wdym if i have the spare pearls ? if i can upgrade to 425 ?
dense cedar
If you can roll both belts with socket and get them to 425 ye
like if u have everything else you need finished
go for abberation belt
pearl ingot
Best prepotion for us in raids?
desert vault
I dont think I've seen a dps do 40k+ yet in a dungeon weird I only run 10 to 12s though
tropic ocean
unbridled fury
with this affixes 40k+ should be very common unless pulls are very small/slow
desert vault
Yeah I dont know. Guess pugs must be slow pulls. I think in FH I was doing 32 to 35k overall and was top dps usually
wintry trout
How man EB traits are recommended for m+?
wintry trout
is stacking it worthwhile on trash weeks/ in general
vapid scarab
2/2/2 of EB/SS/TtK is a good all around setup for everything yeah
hushed arrow
Guys, should I even consider picking Undulating tides? Or have I been jebaited by the numbers
wintry trout
how well can you stay above 50%
hushed arrow
So it all depends if that shield pops eh
wintry trout
yee
hushed arrow
Hmm 🤔
wintry trout
if the shield pops the damage goes away for 45 seconds
hushed arrow
Which makes it useless so I guess thats why pros wouldnt take it?
ripe nimbus
the answer is, as a dps in EP its very hard to stay above 50% the entire fight... the undulating tides is good for good tanks tho.
eternal turtle
quick question, is applying crippling poison dps loss?
ripe nimbus
why would it be a dps loss?
eternal turtle
okay was just thinking it might reduce deadly poison apply chance or something
hushed arrow
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
hushed arrow
What about best stats in pvp? 🤔 haste > Vers > Mastery?
woeful minnow
yes
wintry trout
crit drops down hard
median sand
I assume sin is going to become a bit more popular in m+ with the incoming outlaw nerfs? I just dislike RtB rng and would rather stick to one spec 😃
median sand
Yeah I felt for our brothers. RIP bois
rigid mango
@median sand @wintry trout outlaw is still probably the best, easier to gear, simpler to play
Hard doubt sin's getting more play
ripe nimbus
simpler to play, compared to spamming fok?
civic palm
Simpler to play because OTL doesn't have modulating energy considerations.
kindred skiff
Is there a general preference for m+, 15+ keys, on fortified weeks for essences? At the moment I'm using Focusing iris major with Lucid Dreams minor. I have Condensed Life Force, Iris, Lucid dreams, purification protocol, and worldvein in rank 3
bold marsh
do you aim for 3x EB for m+, or is there much of a difference in general?
rigid mango
2x tops unless fort fh/ml generally
ashen oriole
are the engineering goggles worth pursuing?
rigid mango
Decent enough
ashen oriole
any spec or just sin and if sin they seem more ST oriented - right?
rigid mango
They're good for raid, yeah
ashen oriole
thanks
cobalt pelican
they h ave like nv deadshot ttk dd so they're like
playable as every spec but not optimal for anyone just cause the engi ring is very like.. okay..
molten mirage
@zine iv been doing more overall dps than outlaw rogues in m+ as assassination this weekend
cobalt pelican
outlaw hasn't been nerfed yet so if that's the case they're likely just very bad
anecdotal evidence especially in lower keys isn't very helpful cause half of the players are dribbling morons
bronze kelp
Na, outlaw is way to strong atm
If u top him in meters the outlaw is bad
Maybe you come close with pad build
bronze kelp
XD
molten mirage
I am excited for the potential to play either or spec now tho hopefully that's a thing
bronze kelp
3 SS 3 eb is not the best way to serve your group
royal lantern
not this week for sure
bronze kelp
Okay, if your group contains only st dmg then it is maybe 😉
royal lantern
you bolster stuff up
bronze kelp
Yeah sure I know
rigid mango
It's not even tyr, you don't need the ST
vestal wren
so, bringing EB at all is troll?
bold marsh
@Zine aight thanks
placid root
what azerite traits should I actually have for my raid set?
royal lantern
yes fuu
molten mirage
No fuu
molten mirage
I was able to melt everything down without triggering bolstering
vestal wren
I mean EB has higher aoe impact then SS, so i assume zine is refering that you need to go EB-less this week
royal lantern
thats wath he meant by it
rigid mango
I don't think 3eb is good
I don't think stacking 3 eb and ss this week is good since it's very uncontrollable aoe
molten mirage
You can run triple SS and triple eb for the overall dps and just focus envenoms on the highest health target
Ez pz
rigid mango
whilst ttk is much more controlled damage in a bolst environment
royal lantern
3SS 3EB is debatable anyway, and in this week where you need too stop doing aoe and burst 1 target down faster in most packs....eh
vestal wren
so 3x ttk 3x ss?
vestal wren
or what to run?
rigid mango
no
royal lantern
@rigid mango
vestal wren
that makes no sense logical
molten mirage
Iv learned not to listen to most ppl in here fuu
rigid mango
Yeah man
molten mirage
The advice I have been given by most randoms was mostly wrong
rigid mango
👌
royal lantern
he just said that its less effective too just go 3xEB in a week where you are not spamming fok all the time 🤷 it makes sense imo
rigid mango
You don't want to fok perma
You want to be envenoming
to control what dies when
It's very simple logic
In weeks where deaths have no effect, you can run 3eb and go for it
with no issue
bronze kelp
@molten mirage who said something wrong?
molten mirage
Idk it was a month or so ago
vestal wren
whats the reason that makes 2x EB super good and 3x EB the worst thing ever/trolling?
bronze kelp
Okay, thought you were referring to this
molten mirage
I try not to harbor bitterness or even remember people's names that give me bad advice cuz it's a waste of brain space
Nah
vestal wren
!affix
prisma monolithBOT
Affixes: Fortified - Bolstering - Skittish - Beguiling
molten mirage
I deff don't agree with zine
rigid mango
Bolstering is all this week is
molten mirage
But I'm not talking about this
vestal wren
but its fortified, so boss time is lower, and thats where ttk shines
royal lantern
let us all go sub
molten mirage
I tried it
royal lantern
and forgot sin traits
molten mirage
And it still sucks
rigid mango
Has nothing but prio damage
molten mirage
/ cry
rigid mango
If it had eb it'd probably be decent atleast
vestal wren
oh, just trying to understand the decision
rigid mango
But alas, we got it
I know but I've told u
ttk for prio
it's for controlling bolster
You're not there to hard pumping damage
vital haven
why not just run 3xeb though
rigid mango
You can, but you want 2 ttk min
molten mirage
Rogues are always there to pump dmg
vestal wren
but ss does also up your prio damage
royal lantern
why are people talk like zine told you that 3xEB is bad etc...
molten mirage
Cuz your aoe will suck then
molten mirage
3x eb is alot more over all dps than 2x eb
bronze kelp
@molten mirage but m+ is not about best overall dmg
bronze kelp
It always depends on what your group needs
molten mirage
Agreed proper comp matters
lethal heart
anyone knows how loyal to the end trait performs in delirium realm?
rigid mango
But you still pump without the 3rd eb
molten mirage
Not as much
rigid mango
rigid mango
Nah you just have to focus at actually playing the affixes
and doing the best to complete the key
sucks, doesn't it
molten mirage
I'll keep doing my thing
rigid mango
molten mirage
Seems to be working really well for me
vapid scarab
there's doing as much damage as you can and then there's doing actually relevant damage to finish the key
molten mirage
Good thing I +2d the key
vapid scarab
yeah you can focusing iris a triple pack of blobs in shrine and top the overall
doesn't mean you did anything
molten mirage
But I did
I love how someone who legit wasn't there nor knows anything about our comp is trying to tell me I did it wrong
I thought +2 on a 14 wcm was pretty good this week
rigid mango
The key you did with a dh, bm hunter
bronze kelp
Not that you did it wrong
molten mirage
But I guess I'm wrong
molten mirage
Yeah
rigid mango
I know, dw
mighty elm
Someone leak me methods decree WA kthx
rigid mango
But yeah, you can keep on spamming 3 eb ss and get decent results
I'm not arguing that
I'm arguing ttk is really fucking good on a bolst week
molten mirage
I get what your saying zine
vapid scarab
nobody said you're doing it wrong but the way you're talking makes it sound like you don't seem to understand anything but how to get the highest overall at the end of the dungeon
molten mirage
For our comp it worked well tho
marble elm
tbh if u arent ruthlessly padding at every opportunity u are doing it wrong
rigid mango
^
molten mirage
The hunter was not doing to well
marble elm
cahnge my mind
molten mirage
As far as aoe goes
rigid mango
But you can do better
glass matrix
Ttk is twist the knife ?
molten mirage
Yes jack
glass matrix
Ty
tribal marlin
ttk is good even in non bolster week
people tend to miss what really the purpose of assa in m+ I think
molten mirage
That depends on your comp miki
glass matrix
Trying to get the ideal setup for m+ so it's 2ss 2ttk 2eb ? No dd ?
vestal wren
So, any build that is not troll needs to have at lest 2 ttk traits
not have more then 2 ss and eb builds?
molten mirage
Which I assume is the overall point everyone is trying to make
rigid mango
I'm not saying that either fuu
I'm saying ttk is insanely good on weeks with bolstering
Where you can control deaths
really really well
civic palm
@glass matrix You don't spend enough time Mutilating for Double Dose to be worth taking.
bronze kelp
@glass matrix 2/2/2 is good for every week for every affix comb
molten mirage
I think we are saying the same thing in different ways
molten mirage
It's all really circumstansial
rigid mango
I normally run with outlaws/dh
tribal marlin
I'd argue that TTK is good in every high fortified keys
rigid mango
So I don't need the aoe
tribal marlin
because you can choose to kill a target faster than anyne else
rigid mango
I'd argue ttk is always good, but sometimes 3 eb ss is just as good
tribal marlin
with Vendetta + TB + 3xTTK you can kill prio target in no time
rigid mango
Ultimatly, comp/affix decision
molten mirage
^^
rigid mango
But generally, 2/2/2 will work/out perform in any situation
And for this specific week, not running ttk's is a worse version of sin that it can be
glass matrix
Really ? I was tryi g to work dd in for the st bosses but if it's not ideal then I can take it out
tribal marlin
I do argue with some rogue friends and they don't understand why TTK is so good because it's ST trait that seems to reduce overall dmg. I think they just don't really get the strengh of sin rogue in m+ especially in high fortified weeks
civic palm
Bosses end up being some 20 - 30% of total time spent in the dungeon, DD just doesn't help enough.
royal lantern
dd doesnt help because you litearly dont use mutilate for the majority of trash fights
tidal sedge
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
glass matrix
I done my first normally key last night with assassin the air aspect wasn't that good but I'm still getting used to the garrote spam at the start lol so running proper traits will help a bunch xxx
tribal marlin
Like, being able to quickly kill a prio target is not only confort thing, it also allow your tank to facetank more and thus packing the mob more, and thus making EB and all your team doing more dmg
royal lantern
atleast ttk gives you something for mobs AND bosses
tribal marlin
it's just an example
full iron
is 3 EB worth it?
civic palm
2 is worth it
strange python
how high a key can I run with 415 ilvl
winged pumice
will assa aoe build be worth picking over outlaw after nerfs?
midnight vapor
depends on comp and dungeon, but you should be able to do +10 if you play well
@strange python
tribal marlin
In ideal setup I'll run 2ttk 3eb 1ss in fortified
and probably 3ss 1ttk 2eb in tyranical
winged pumice
might just respec now then
been doing 30k St and about 40k aoe at 423 ilvl, is that okay?
tribal marlin
tbh it's all about what your goal is, what's your key range, what kind of composition you are running
MDI's composition are a trap
strange python
65 Attempts at getting an OH dagger above 395, 65 failures. RIP me.
winged pumice
im not really a competitive player, i mostly run 10 and below and at that level people arent too fussed about composition but i just like to play the spec which can do the best anyways
tribal marlin
Then you can play both spec and be very effective with both
nimble vault
Is worldvein minor still a trap? Sims good for me but I heard it bugs and doesnt give you all your stacks from other peoples?
tribal marlin
People missunderstand why MDI comp include multiple outlaws
they think it's because of crazy cleave dmg but that's not entierly true
low junco
my favorite thing is when my 36 stacks inkpod hits for 835k
tribal marlin
It's more about being able to provide very high ST dps while still provide sustained high cleave dps.
low junco
gachibass
tribal marlin
It's the only spec in the game that can do that with maybe fury warrior
vestal wren
so, is outlaw or sin better this week?
royal lantern
they use multiple outlaws cus it does crazy aoe dmg with good utility/deffensnsives without a target cap, while still taking full st talents
=they pull 18mob packs and 12bosses at once, and the 2-3yahtzee pirates cleave everything down
tribal marlin
Yes that's it
winged pumice
what do people mean by sin?
royal lantern
assassination
tribal marlin
they pull 10 mob with 1 boss and outlaws still do very high ST dps while cleaving everything
civic palm
winged pumice
ahhh
civic palm
o _o
tribal marlin
there is very few spec in the game that can do that, most spec in the game are loosing ST dmg by cleaving, or they do get increase ST dmg with adds, but they don't cleave as much as outlaw
placid root
Do I run 3 ttk 2 double dose 1 np for st?
royal lantern
dh is close
winged pumice
i dont know which traits to run for either ST or AOE. ive got 2np 2dd 1ttk 1 tradewinds
for st^^^^
tribal marlin
yes anyway the point is that, outlaw flavour isn't just about high sustained cleave dmg. Assasination with 3xEB are probably sustaining a better AoE dmg than outlaw even pre-nerf
in like 10target 2mn assasination quickly goes ahead past the 40sec timer
strange python
@midnight vapor thanks
solemn meadow
how do you play font of power
on queens court?
just dont use it in the dont stop moving decree?
civic palm
Can just cloak the DMG from resetting the stack?
tribal marlin
yes you can but that imply not moving at all during the phase which is unlikely to happens
also if you keep moving non stop you'll get a lot of 1stack ticks that deal insane amount of dmg
royal lantern
^
tribal marlin
better is to just stand still and destack when reaching 2stack
civic palm
^
royal lantern
stand still til you get 2 stacks, then move too drop too 1 again
solemn meadow
but I can just stay still for 4secs to charge the trinket once?
shouldnt be that bad?
royal lantern
thats 3stacks
its ok
you wont wipe or die cus of that
you need too be at 1stack when the decree ends
tribal marlin
what do you guys think about minor protocol for m+ ?
I'm soon hitting 65 neck lvl and considering using this as a 3rd essence slot
tribal marlin
I have no clue on what 3rd essnece i'll use tbh
raid will probably be worldvein for i'm quite sceptic about its strenght in m_
unkempt karma
!Wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
civic palm
PP even
solemn meadow
worldvein is a meme
even with a third essence I wont use it
I probably go
crucible
civic palm
Yeh I wouldn't in M+ either, even though you are usually closer to a group of people.
Hard no on Crucible IMO.
solemn meadow
for ST it's probably da best
strange python
idk why, but leveling an assassination rogue has to be the most satisfying thing ever
royal lantern
what is your secret lol
strange python
first i do a double mutilate
then i go into a garrote
then i finish it off with a rupture
strange python
rupture then garrote i guess
strange python
then i stab them to death with my poisoned knives
royal lantern
but energy problems are bigger at lower lvls 🤔
plain moon
Sorry for the noobie questions here. Mid rotation I always pair vendetta and vanish and master assassin right? Also because of this do I try to reapply rup/gar b4 vendetta, even if it means I have to hold vendetta for a extra global or 2?
strange python
vigor?
vapid scarab
@plain moon ye
solemn meadow
you doint want to reapply your dots in your vendetta
plain moon
ty
strange python
also venemous wounds feels like it helps with energy
rather than subject myself to rng generation like sub lol
strange python
which one?
opal osprey
what is the best benthic wrists for us?
plain moon
Should I always vanish with some CPs that way with master assassin I can try to get 2 envenoms? or if its 2muts and 1envenom does it matter?
solemn meadow
@plain moon what essences do you play
plain moon
@solemn meadow I havent raided as sin yet (Outlaw main trying swap). Looking at warcraft logs though the way to go seems condensed major and lucid minor
solemn meadow
and yes you want to do the burst first
when you have 4+ cp
4 cp vendetta toxic blade your essence vanish envenom
I think with life force
you first life force then toxic blade
opal osprey
okay
plain moon
Wouldn't it be better to essence before vendetta?
teal hatch
Is undulating tides good? or just a sim trap ?
royal lantern
tends too be a sim trap
can be good for some fights, but you lose the dmg part when the shield comes up
teal hatch
so between undulating tides or scent of blood, what should i choose ?
shy axle
another piece, jokes aside - I would use tides for hc content, but mythic activates the shield way to often
shy axle
i would even use it for m, even if it might be inactive sometimes, if the other alternative is only scent
teal hatch
and tier 2, overwelming is best right ?
wide ridge
hey guys quick question regarding M+, is crimson tempest worth it? Or just stick to poison bomb?
anyone with experience?
royal lantern
CT lost much of its value since EB is avaible
you do more dmg with spamming FoK then by spending CP too use CT
pliant apex
new to rogue, i keep dying to boss, since i keep paying attention to points and energy bar, always played range, how do i fix this
in general, finding melee really hard to play
civic palm
Pay more attention to the things around you.
teal hatch
Which gems should I be using ?
rigid mango
The ones that sim the ebst
teal hatch
Yeah but im only ilvl 300 so not sure if i should be going for sim yet
just thought i'd use a gem that im gonna be needing
for a while
royal lantern
play until you get the musclememory, then you avoid more stuff naturaly
civic palm
Gems make no difference at 300, as you're going to be using nothing you own for long.
or at 400.
Gear will be replaced.
candid jasper
Is there a bug where essences aren't applied or poisons aren't being picked up? I'm getting literally no regen at a boss fight
I've relogged a few times, checked poisons are on and checked my esences
My energy regen is literally disgusting
dark crag
you can activate energy gains in scrolling combat text
should be 14 energy every 2 sec before haste
pliant apex
what should be the AOE rotation for assa
dark crag
fok
in what context? raid, m+, cleave, heavy mass aoe?
assa is not like mouseclicking bladefurry and rolling over ss
strange python
I will be kinda surprised if Assa pulls ahead of Outlaw even post-nerf for dungeon add damage
vapid scarab
I mean, it already can
noble vale
^^
strange python
Is that like a stars align specific gear situation or on average?
noble vale
I’ve had the stars align for gear, but on average my experience was I’d beat them in overall and I played assa all of S2
And have been all of S3 so far
vapid scarab
you just have to know how to play
noble vale
And have hyper ADD lolllll
visual hemlock
Can anyone help and tell how to use Font trinket together with Razor trinket?
rocky haven
@cobalt pelican pls help
polar cape
And have your tank let you restealth
strange python
@vapid scarab Well, that's a big ask. I just kinda mash face to keyboard and hope for the best.
noble vale
Channel Font at 6/5 seconds, restealth and preppy
*prepot
Hit coral the moment you can while vendetta is rolling
noble vale
It’s really fun to play tbh
strange python
@vapid scarab I'm being sarcastic. Though TBH I haven't looked into how to M+ as Assa, just been running Outlaw for M+
noble vale
As someone who was forced to play outlaw for Gorgonzola, I hated those two nights lol
royal lantern
just had a Sivara pull where the tank faced her too us while i used vanish
old knot
Hey Toasty, do you have an r.io page so I can see how you gear / set up for dungeons and raids?
royal lantern
vanish>envenom parry>envenom parry>envenom parry
how high are the chances for that?
real bay
blizz hates melee kappa
noble vale
Just keep in mind I’m o my triple EB cause it’s the only 445 helm
Ideally my setup is 3SS, 2EB 1 TTk
dark crag
@pliant apex assa aoe in dungeons is a mix of priotarget damage and fok(with eb) spam. You have to decide what you do for each pack. Rule of thumb is like 5+ spam fok, else envenom a high hp mob
Get 4 bleed for energy reg, opener are 3 garrotes+1rup, after that keep rupturing, garrote in high aoe is a loss of dmg
noble vale
I mean I’ve played this all throughout
I can gauge what I prefer better personally
You won’t feel that 2ns TTK unless you get a 3rd
rigid mango
You do.
dark crag
assa aoe relys on damager per energy spent, a high target count fok does more dmg than an envenom as example
atomic compass
How accurate are dungeon slice sims for assa essence and azerite powers wise
noble vale
“I can gauge what I prefer”
Reading is essential
The word prefer, is quite subjective #smile
dapper plover
did i miss the sin vs outlaw fun again???
strange python
I don't think so
it was more a discussion of Sin in M+
I did learn that Sin can be competitive but its work.
noble vale
I will say one thing since trying outlaw, the sheer joy of pistol shorting things and the sound it makes is unmatched lollll
You’ll never get that satisfaction from a garrotte ahahaha
noble vale
That is a good sound no doubt
strange python
I like the ranged stun
hushed arrow
I have 29.1k dps as 424assa, I lack dps in m+ I'll link my sim
Something is wrong but that's because I'm new
strange python
29.1k ST at 424? seems low.
hushed arrow
It is 😦
strange python
Did you consult Raidbots? Try different gem/enchant/trinket/azerite/essence
noble vale
I’m really looking forward to the 3rd minor slot
Gonna make the assa M+ cleave even more viable
teal kettle
What ST potion do you guys use? I see a lot of conflicting opinions
hushed arrow
Iris is for m+ btw
shy dust
Fury
noble vale
I thought unbridled was pretty standard for ST no?
shy dust
It is
noble vale
Yeah I thought so
It’s simming the iris in there too @hushed arrow , do you have CLF?
hushed arrow
CLF?
noble vale
Condsensed life force the raid essence
drifting cloud
what are you even trying to sim
hushed arrow
Not yet
noble vale
Really great ST essence
drifting cloud
you dont want haste in m+
noble vale
That’s kind of one down side of assa, you have to pick one or the other somewhat
If you go heavy aoe for trash in M+ you’ll be low ST boss. And vice versa
hushed arrow
Yes and right now im in the middle of two so it's trash
noble vale
Group comp and the affixes that week will help you optimize in that sense
noble vale
I can’t really think of a situation where you’ll want to do ST in M+. Assa play style is more to focus priority targets by doing cleave and then funneling the combo points into prio damage
At least IMO
drifting cloud
you can get engi helm and behe chest
hushed arrow
Yes exactly
noble vale
TTk is great cause it synergies that playstyle
hushed arrow
So how do I optimize that
noble vale
SS / EB / TTK convo
hushed arrow
And only have 1 EB or not even 1
noble vale
*combo
noble vale
I personally don’t subscribe to only 1 SS, garrotte is your highest dmg every dungeon
I like 2-3
winged pumice
could anyone tell me the optimal trait setup for both m+ and st?
noble vale
DD and NP never in M+ unless like a 22 KR tyrannical lol
noble vale
M+ - you’ll want a combo of EB / SS / TTK
ST raid boss - you’ll want a combo of DD / NP
And of course there’s other solid ones, from random pieces like gorak Tuls
winged pumice
how much of each is ideal for m+
noble vale
But that’s a good rule of thumb. NP and DD are amazing in raid
How much of each depends on what the weeks affixed are and your group comp IMO
cloud lichen
guys if i play CLF as major, i feel like i starve too much during vendetta phase, why?
hushed arrow
Having 1 EB is ok I feel
noble vale
If you’re the only rogue doing the majority of the aoe, on like a Fort week; you can run 3 EB especially after next Tuesday. But on tyrannical weeks you want to focus the SS and TTKs
hushed arrow
Is SS > TTK even in ST due to garrote being higher dmg?
noble vale
Also have to play with the gear you have atm , not many options for Sin from the raid
cloud lichen
guys if i play CLF as major, i feel like i starve too much during vendetta phase, why?
scarlet sequoia
?
scarlet sequoia
hopefully youre playing lucid minor
hushed arrow
What haste you should have minimum, 15%?
scarlet sequoia
~20%
hushed arrow
why so low even in 8%? I dont get it, only because of aoe?
winged pumice
2ttk 2ss 1eb will be good for m+?
noble vale
Because in M+ you have 3-4 bleeds out always
And you regenerate energy every time a bleed ticks
hushed arrow
And bleeds give energy, gotchu
noble vale
Yessir you got it
noble vale
So it lets you focus crit and mastery
hushed arrow
Even if I restealth to reapply garrote on 4 targets
winged pumice
2ttk 2ss 1eb is my best setup possible, should i just stick to outlaw
noble vale
That’s a solid setup
wispy marsh
Using Font and Coral, when is the ideal time to pop coral? I imagine you want to font before every Vendetta
winged pumice
okay nice. might struggle to have a build with little haste though
noble vale
Font 5/6 before pull, restealth and prepot; coral the second it comes up during vendetta
wispy marsh
Ahhh, my bad, meant during the encounter, do we pop at 20 stacks like with outlaw?
noble vale
The 2TTk will give you solid prio damage in trash and solid boss dmg. 2 SS is minimum for me
Yeah I usually pop my coral at 17 minimum to like up with a vendetta/ TB / vanish
wispy marsh
Cool, thanks @noble vale
winged pumice
1 blightborn infusion will be okay until i get bis?
noble vale
If you font, and give it a few seconds before hitting vendetta you can hit a beautiful window
Yeah you can live with the blightborne, 5/6 being solid is OK
winged pumice
okay
wispy marsh
Ohhh, can catch coral on the tail end of that too, I gotcha
hushed arrow
TTK seems like to be the best trait, am I wrong here? It sims so low on dps though I don't understand
noble vale
Yeah exactlyyy @wispy marsh it can all line up
It’s beautiful ahaha
SS is king for assa IMO; at the end of the dungeon garrotte will always be your top
If you can optimize your vanishes and always apply properly; it’s so massive
On a high fortified key. Getting a full 2nd set out with BOME is ridiculous
noble vale
That’s quite an array there lolllll
hushed arrow
Let's say I wanna focus on ST but I still have 2SS, what traits should I go for at least 2TTK? 🤔
wispy marsh
Dude's got everything and more lol
hushed arrow
you can @ going afk :x
noble vale
Just do what you can to get rid of DD and NP; it’s useless in M+. The combo of 3 will yield ok result until you can optimize it
winged pumice
3SS 1EB OR 2SS 2EB?
noble vale
in most dungeons id go with 2 SS 2EB, but in like KR and ToS that triple SS is super juicy
winged pumice
alright thanks man, the help is much appreciated
crimson condor
lol love it when a 420 bomber jacket from mechagon > 435 raid pieces
winged pumice
sim 37k on dungeon slice.. any good?
i sim 1k more with 3 ss 1 ttk rather than 2 of each
no sorry, 3ss 1eb instead of 2 of each
tribal marlin
so VoP minor for zaqul or no ?
tall narwhal
I mean, lots of people SIM more than that in a patchwork fight
tribal marlin
I see some log without
modest tendon
Dungeon slice is dog shit, ignore it run sims for specific boss/trash scenarios using the advanced to sims to get a more realistic idea of your output in m+
jolly garden
So whats the deal with master assassin? i sim much higher with subterfuge but i see every raider using MA
modest tendon
Just adjust the amount of EB’s you are using depending on the dungeon/affix combos
vapid scarab
@jolly garden if you have SS then sub will sim higher but with optimal traits MA is better
winged pumice
more eb is better for dungeons with bigger packs?
modest tendon
Ye
winged pumice
like freehold
vapid scarab
not for ST
vernal fern
there is no reason to run SS in raid for pure ST
modest tendon
Then just increase/decrease the amount of ttk/ss depending on what you want to achieve
vapid scarab
it's not terrible but it's also not the best
vernal fern
could be good with cleave fights but there isnt many EP fights were that helps
jolly garden
so ttk>SS for ST?
modest tendon
Ss is good for padding single target though, it aims higher under fights that last about 3 minutes though, try running a sim
vapid scarab
you want 3x DD, and then some combination of NP/TtK/BBI
w/e you have available and sims highest
winged pumice
is this an okay combo? (simmed in dungeon slice for m+) maybe the low numbers is entirely my stat prio
tribal marlin
it's fine
modest tendon
That’s a perfect combo for tos and kr
vapid scarab
for m+ it's good
jolly garden
so gorak tul's mantle Bis shoulders?
vapid scarab
consider swapping a TtK for another EB on aoe heavier dungeons/weeks
tribal marlin
I think getting 1 more EB could be good but if it's the only oe you have acces it's definitly strong especially if you aren't pushing high keys (pack are quick)
modest tendon
You might find yourself wanting a second eb sometimes
vapid scarab
yes, gorak's are the single best shoulders in the game
jolly garden
for m+ too?
winged pumice
okay. its getting expensive for me to reforge
vapid scarab
sin azerite doesn't work like that but yeah depending on what else you have
tribal marlin
Any one can tell me if I should go strive for perfectio on Zaqul or not ?
modest tendon
Depends what your guild needs, some people go eb/ss for that boss
vapid scarab
if you have to aoe on zaquul then you play outlaw
tribal marlin
I wont aoe
modest tendon
This is the sin channel we don’t speak of outlaw here 😛 but yeah outlaw better for add fight
noble vale
try and get above 33% crit asap
that way even on 3 target cleave, one of your hits will proc your EB
drifting cloud
lol
winged pumice
okay, is there some sort of website which tells me bis dungeon gear for m+?
drifting cloud
thats really not how math works
noble vale
ok 😃
tribal marlin
I will have to go delirum realm and burst the add
so I guess ima go stirve for perfection
drifting cloud
well public logs most people seem to not be doing it anymore
I guess its overgear
you should just PM the few rogues that are actually 7/8 and ask them
tribal marlin
well Imma progress this with 3rd essence next week anyway
drifting cloud
like Tisu Raz Saryero
I see Seli is running it on stream tho, but they havent killed it yet
rigid mango
If you're going delirium I think you go VoP minor, don't you?
So that your vendetta aligns with add phases
drifting cloud
yeah but the adds flop now, so clf for one and vendetta for another works aswell afaik
rigid mango
hm
From the convo I had with uhh
sebek and someone else, maybe vel?
They still think VoP is the play
Which was on thurs maybe
tribal marlin
ok ok
drifting cloud
it probably is, on public logs its like50/50
but ofc the better logs wont have it
tribal marlin
well as I said we will do first 10 pull tonight in 1 hours
but our real prog will be next week with 3rd essence slot so
I'll just tkaE VoP as 3rd
tribal marlin
we have 2 locks
winged pumice
is there any "bis" dungeon drop set for m_
winged pumice
m+ that i can find anywhere
marble elm
its definitely safer
marble elm
assuming nobody is randomly dying boss damage wont be an issue
rigid mango
Makes sense
quiet forge
Do you guys think that Assa will be better than Outlaw for M+ now?
winged pumice
will using amr upgrade finder help me optimise for multi target or am i best to leave it
rigid mango
I think outlaw and sin will be close
but outlaw is easier to play, gear and gives better utilityt
@winged pumice don't use amr, it's really bad
winged pumice
okay
quiet forge
But assa is better on boss
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
rigid mango
Nope, not that
The dungeon azerite is in the pins
@quiet forge outlaw is already arguably better on bosses dependant on lenght of fight and luck of either player, and that's not changing unless there's more targets
So idk 
tribal marlin
Who should go delirium beside rogue ?
marble elm
@rigid mango this is 2nd delirium add without vop https://i.imgur.com/ivQzWCE.jpg
quiet forge
casters i guess
modest tendon
People who benefit from haste specifically
marble elm
gotta watch the bats 
winged pumice
is there a way for me to send you guys my gear set, and you tell me which piece of gear to focus on replacing first? i really dont wanna piss yall off with all these dumb requests though.. sorry
modest tendon
SPriest in my guild averaged 100k dps at the end of our last hc clear 😮
rigid mango
Firemages, spriests, locks
modest tendon
Just send a raidbots sim
rigid mango
hunters too I suppose?
rigid mango
Yeah obv
But assuming there isn't a melee in there
I'd assume we send firemages down first, but yeah
marble elm
hunter is 
rigid mango
in what way
rigid mango
Ah fair
idk we only have one anyways, maybe he doesn't get shit
when were you cloaking
7-8?
marble elm
1st one came out w/ 8 and cloaked, 2nd one cloaked at 5-6 and came out with 4-5, and then 7-8 at the end
we had mages go down at the very end again but its too long to save cloak for
scarlet sequoia
it looks really easy after the nerfs
rigid mango
Sounds great.
marble elm
it didnt really change much
drifting cloud
Zine thinking hes killing court next week 
scarlet sequoia
idk i was watching my guild and they easily made the add pushes
like 10 seconds left or something
drifting cloud
marble elm
people were saying they made the last summoners always spawn
rigid mango
I will
rigid mango
Apparently we "needed boss damage" when outlaw and sin are seemingly tied on boss damage
from the logs that I saw
scarlet sequoia
yeah we had 1 assa at first as well
but i was doing like 10% more boss dmg as well as outlaw
so he went outlaw as well
rigid mango
ytho
scarlet sequoia
garbage pc
rigid mango
F
scarlet sequoia
😬
marble elm
vendored all my outlaw gear to gamble 
scarlet sequoia
sounds like a quick thinking guild
pliant apex
rank 3 is so hard omg, takes like 3 months i think , MINIMUM
shy dust
You gotta kill ashvane to get the wrists so no
rigid mango
@unborn moon You want lucid r3, CLF r3, benthic and a better 2nd trink
unborn moon
What benthic slots is it?
unborn moon
Thank you
cobalt pelican
the azshara globbers are pretty okay too
drifting cloud
maybe belt should be after boots then 
just comes down to how many pearls you farm tbh
rigid mango
Wrists do more than waist, tho
drifting cloud
if someone doesnt farm them alot and they go bracers and get unluck after 100 rolls they might be tilted
yeah but 6 wrists, only 2 belts
dark crag
Wrist do more but 2/6 is a pain
dark crag
Yes
rigid mango
The fuck is the damage from the waist called in logs?
dark crag
Barnacle bash or something
rigid mango
I can't actually see it in logs 
vapid scarab
it's conch strike
cobalt pelican
just check the log for what you wore
dark crag
Conch strike
cobalt pelican
under summary
rigid mango
It's not there
cobalt pelican
and check your player filters
rigid mango
like, my gear isn't there for some reason
empty tide
or you got 0 procs
rigid mango
I think it's got a fixxed ppm?
Seems as if the waist has way higher highs
Jeez it did a lot on ashvane
rigid mango
Dig bick shit
cobalt pelican
my anecdotals are very skewed
empty tide
I have seen some 47k conch strike crits
rigid mango
I can imagine them simming real high there
cobalt pelican
like it seems like it's proccing from blade flurry in log
i guess that's not an hashasiasination thought
rigid mango
Do they do more than 2% of total damage in those scenarios?
cobalt pelican
425 vims sims above 420 aberration belt on 4t patchwerk for me with the aberration target set
but idk i'm playing assasination next week anyways
empty tide
I went spyglass coral
cobalt pelican
i can't tell if i'm like
doing something wrong on ashvane
or it's just cause there's so many kills
that don't have offset cds/2phasing