assassination

[rigid mango]

I'm just like

not paying 40k

for reforge

[noble vale]

i litearlly put together an outlaw set for gorgonzola

[rigid mango]

Same.

[noble vale]

and then i did a key or two, and then the nerfs came out LOL

i was like, its a sign. stay true to youreself

[rigid mango]

I'd be sin for m+ if I didn't have to sell my kidney to afford it

[noble vale]

playing sin all the way through S2 up to 3k was fun, but having people question me every key wasnt lol

[rigid mango]

Aye, I've been sin player up until last week

Just bec I cba spending so much gold on reforges

[noble vale]

yeah i pretty much said ill play outlaw only if i get the azerite from EP for it lol

for taht reason

[vague acorn]

Would you say that outlaw is better in m+? Even with the nerfs? @noble vale

[rigid mango]

[noble vale]

you really dont want to ask me that, cause i play for fun. and i find that spec zero fun

[rigid mango]

Let's have this talk agian

[vague acorn]

Hahaha

Man

[rigid mango]

Nah just

I cba

[noble vale]

ive had ONE outlaw rogue make me feel bad about the dps at end of dungeon. otherwise my experience was i keep up pretttttty fine

[rigid mango]

You can ask any of the giga outlaws in this discord

[polar shale]

been stuck playing sin with raid setup in m+ for all of s2,couldnt get any eb couldnt get any weps for outlaw...it sucked hard

[rigid mango]

guy and lok have been saying it's still fine

undad too

Just listen to them, if not me

[noble vale]

the fact is outlaw just depends on way less

you can have sub optimal gear and perform great

[vague acorn]

I mean I wanna hear others opinions to my man @rigid mango i appreciate the answers tho

[noble vale]

assa you need everything to be lined up perfect

[sullen pagoda]

or just wait until 1-2 weeks and see how things settle instead of asking people to talk out of their ass

🤷🏿

[rigid mango]

Why ask for more opinions

Just go into outlaw

and ask if it's still good

like every other person

[rotund mural]

I personally tried both assassin and outlaw since 8.2 started.... and im gonna play sin cause it's much more fun for me, don't care if it's weaker, i'm doing good and having fun along the way

[sullen pagoda]

assa isnt even weaker

[noble vale]

i mean if hes asking people who actually play assa in high M+, not really talking out of our ass

[vague acorn]

The nerfs aren't here yet so no one knows how outlaw is gonna be I guess. I'm just asking for sin opinions

[sullen pagoda]

?

[rigid mango]

Sin was for sure weaker than outlaw this season

Why are u asking about

sin opinions

[noble vale]

yeah i play sin and i can even say that equally skilled outlaw and sin player, the outlaw will come ahead end of dungeon

[rigid mango]

on outlaw balancing

🤔

[sullen pagoda]

ye that was

[faint harness]

Skills and Outlaw in the same sentence

[noble vale]

and the sin player will have worked way harder lol

[rigid mango]

You've got to be real good at sin to out value an outlaw

Because they bring so much to the table without doing shit

[noble vale]

no use dumbing down either of the specs, rogue in general has a low skill level but a massive ceiling too

[rigid mango]

^

[sullen pagoda]

i guess thats true

[dense blaze]

Can I say that about every class

[sullen pagoda]

ye

[noble vale]

100%

[dense blaze]

That they have low skill levels

[rigid mango]

Pretty much

[dense blaze]

And high skill ceilings

[sullen pagoda]

except DH LULW

[rigid mango]

^

[noble vale]

can we REALLY say that abvout dh though? LOL

ahahah great minds LOL

[sullen pagoda]

press eye beam > continue ST rotation

[rigid mango]

like

[noble vale]

there are DHS that play with controllers

so

[rigid mango]

ITS LIGHTING UP I NEED TO PRESS THE BUTTON

[faint harness]

DH was specifically made to be the easiest class

[rigid mango]

[polar shale]

well,not havoc,but vengeance has

[sullen pagoda]

i mean blizzard even said they wanted DH to be button mashing relaxed spec to play

[noble vale]

i hate to admit it, but i love playing with veng dhs lol

[polar shale]

wait,is that havoc,fury or ret?cause all 3 qualify

[vague acorn]

I'm not the best at m+ I do 15-16 keys. But I will try out sin to see how it is, thanks for the answers @rigid mango @noble vale

[rigid mango]

All in all

[sullen pagoda]

fury and ret are more complicated than rogue @polar shale

[rigid mango]

let's put it like this

[faint harness]

Ret is on another scale of complexity compared to DH

DH is literally just press the thing that comes off cd, 0 thought to it

[polar shale]

was referring to the buttons lighting up thing

[rigid mango]

Sin is a pain to gear, and harder to play and even when playing it well you might j ust get fucked by a meh geared outlaw who's playing meh

And all in all, playing either spec wont probs affect your key complete %

[noble vale]

but you can feel mental superiority to those pirates

so theres always that

[rigid mango]

[noble vale]

ninjas> pirates. eZZZZZ

[heavy trail]

I just find sin more fun....

[polar shale]

will still be about 0% in pugs,cause all i can get is ppl who dont know their classes

[noble vale]

agreed @heavy trail tahts why i never stopped playing it

i played Spriest from vanilla, only switched to aff lock later on. im a DoT boy lol

[vague acorn]

But loosing gogue is a big sadface tho I as you said @rigid mango

[sullen pagoda]

i swear outlaw players havemost inflated rio ever

[heavy trail]

@polar shale That's why you are here, to gloat and discuss your supremacy over the quintessential pleb 😃 (Ie me, well, no not really but a bit haha)

[sullen pagoda]

i see complete monkeys with 3k rio and shit

[dense blaze]

Outlaw fun as hell when you’re spamming strikes into a large pack

[sullen pagoda]

its not even "just a little bad player" but straight up a monkey

[noble vale]

i would like my raider IO score to specifiy assa for last season

[polar shale]

how monkey would having to teach a druid what soothe is be?

[heavy trail]

@noble vale I mean I just don't have an urge to be a pirate, and am massive min / maxer... so will keep playing it...

[noble vale]

so they can tell im a stubborn idiot

[sullen pagoda]

im calling it now next mdi

fury warriors everywhere

believe

[noble vale]

monk, assa, fury warrior

[jaunty arch]

getting proud of my 408 ilvl rogue 😃 just getting back into it, rip combat you will be missed

[noble vale]

actually prob just run monk tank

[heavy trail]

Well i know that in one of my guilds, there are folks who are way higherr raider io because they have some decent buddies that carry them 😃

Yeah I dinged 120 a few days ago on my rogue.. he's 408 now also 😃

[solid nova]

Hidden blades

[sullen pagoda]

dude i had in old guild a guy who was pushing m+ as outlaw

he was stacking snake eyes and shit

???????????????????

[solid nova]

Wrong channel

[tropic ocean]

inb4 all outlaw rerollers come here

[umbral fiber]

[sick eagle]

is TB the default option for m+ fortified?
if so why?

[severe sedge]

Outlay gutted.. time to do the swap for real

help me optimize

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qvCzqNXUTN2Dcf9r1r2Rk4

[tropic ocean]

@sick eagle yes

because it increases your st/prio dmg more than the other 2 options

(with current trait usage)

[sick eagle]

ah cuz of ttk

but with 0 ttk

would exang be better?

[scarlet sequoia]

No

[tropic ocean]

exsang was used because of high st burst

and there was no eb so u just used ss

[umbral fiber]

Exsang+galecaller

[terse olive]

so assa m+ here we come??? :))))

[tropic ocean]

[noble vale]

we were always here, just couldnt see us cause we were trying to get a restealth

[terse olive]

HAH!

I liked that one

[shut pasture]

What is the best m+ dagger?

[scarlet sequoia]

uh its that one, the 455 one

[shut pasture]

I mean one I can farm out from keys

[wild ledge]

doesnt matter theyre all the same

first boss in tep drops one so easiest way for good ilvl one

[shut pasture]

I dont raid mythic on rogue

[rigid mango]

Think ur one's crit mast

[strange python]

Should I be leaving Razor Coral to build stacks until Vendetta/Condenced Life Essence are up?

[unborn helm]

Pins

[strange python]

Yes I saw that

[rigid mango]

Stacks for each vend, reapply after

[strange python]

I am just not clear if that means I use it ONCE at fight beginning and not 'activate' it until then

Ah ok ty @rigid mango

[jaunty arch]

are they ever gonna let us transmog our daggers to the pre legendary cata daggers or will it only ever be the off-hand (p.s. this is important because transmog is 92% of my dps)

[rigid mango]

Maybe

[golden relic]

pretty sure u can mog dreamer and sleeper

but they are MH/OH restricted

[unborn helm]

But, if i have both coral and font. How do i use on vendetta when is off cd? I w8 for the coral to come back up (so 20sec after font) or i pop vendetta asap? And then coral like 10/15 sec in to vendetta

Cuz i’m finding it confusing

[rigid mango]

#tc-updates

Explains it

[unborn helm]

Ok ty

[cunning blaze]

Is strife gonna be a good minor for assa come 65 neck?

[glass matrix]

How does one m+ as an assassin lol ?
Is shrouded a must for m+?

[rigid mango]

Yes it's a must

[amber talon]

!essence

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd

[strange python]

Hey guys for Assass AoE im running x3 Echo / x1 Shrouded suffo .....

What are you guys using for M+ Assass AoE Tallent wise?

[rigid mango]

2212221

[heavy trail]

I haven't done much yet but might just run marked for death because I find the switching fun, perhaps not optimal

[rigid mango]

Mfd aint good, yeah

[heavy trail]

Welp the guides say it can be with good resets, so.....

[strange python]

Bought 50 boots

No crit with socket

☹️

[tropic ocean]

🤷

[rigid mango]

Well with sin you chunk all haste and rely on vigor for the enery reg

Your openers are super clunky, you can get entirely fucked and ramp is a janky, also loses out on low target/boss fights by a bit

[heavy trail]

@zine how does one use the coral trinket in M+ I assume we should be using it right ?

[bright smelt]

Lying in wait or gemhide for m+? It seems like you get to pick between aids and ebola

[heavy trail]

i would say lying in wait

[visual topaz]

is SS still needed with Assa ?

apparently yes

[swift roost]

Why do you let subterfuge empowered garrotes fall off before refreshing, and why do so many guides cast two garrotes on the same target going out of subterfuge?

[rigid mango]

Pandemic

[real bay]

max damager

[ionic arrow]

I wanna switch from outlaw to sin again, but I feel like my haste regeneration is so fucking low. Like I can pool energy for 10 sec. Im on 1,2k haste = 20 %

is this the sin gameplay? 😄

[bright smelt]

@ionic arrow running vigor?

[ionic arrow]

y

[bright smelt]

and keeping bleeds up properly

for venomous wounds

[ionic arrow]

Im doing the rules for bleed

[bright smelt]

the rules?

[ionic arrow]

the timing of reapplying

[ripe shale]

U think the outlul nerfs will be anything noticeable ?

[bright smelt]

then yeah I would say you have sin gameplay

lucid minor helps aswell

[opal oyster]

When i yes gems in RaidBots, no matter which gem i choose, it never suggests to change, is it because it has the same value for me?

when i sim*

[reef frigate]

how is sin for m+? since outlaw is getting nerfed i may keep only one spec now

[bright smelt]

sin will most likely do better numbers in m+

but outlaw will have the utility

[tropic ocean]

and it begins

[orchid berry]

What builds are even used by sin in m+? See top rogues using all kinds of combinations. SS+EB or SS+ TTK?

(and maybe throw in an NP instead of EB/TTK?)

[opal oyster]

i'm using 3SS, 2EB and 1 TTk, but i suck

[tropic ocean]

No np

[reef frigate]

a frined of mine runs this one: https://raider.io/characters/us/goldrinn/Rolezeiro#season=season-bfa-3

[orchid berry]

Yeah, that was what I was thinking

How is the build working out for him?

[cobalt pelican]

3ss 3eb is like the budget outlaw starter pack

[orchid berry]

fair enough

[bright smelt]

@tropic ocean whaddaya mean, nobody will swap over from outlaw to assa now

not gonna happen!

[steep obsidian]

i mean

[tropic ocean]

kids already here

they read nerf and their brains link it to dead class

[orchid berry]

however I feel like EB build will make sin perform better throughout the whole dungeon (due to higher aoe contribution), whereas ttk build will mostly help ST?

[bright smelt]

TTK is for prio dmg

[steep obsidian]

ttk is pretty good for prio mobs

[bright smelt]

SS for cleave

EB for aoe

[rigid mango]

Ttk helps for prio damage, its primary use isn't ST

[steep obsidian]

some dungeons have high hp mobs and a bunch of small ones

[reef frigate]

idk, i just dont want to farm daggers+swords. will play outlaw until i get the right traits but i'll prioritize daggers

[rigid mango]

SS and TTK have similar numbers for ST

[orchid berry]

alright, thanks zine!

didnt know that about ttk

[cobalt pelican]

if your metric of performance in a dungeon is linking the overall details window then 3ss 3eb is your best bet

but that's such an outlaw gamer thing to do

[orchid berry]

nah, it isnt about highest average aoe

[tropic ocean]

outlaw is fine

Stop cry

[steep obsidian]

sin has been fine too

MDI isn't everything

[tropic ocean]

the nerf wont make it trash and wont be a reason that you NEED to switch to sin

[steep obsidian]

same

[orchid berry]

hope you dont mean me @tropic ocean

[tropic ocean]

youre not playing fucking mdi or r1 keys where actually any of this would matter

[orchid berry]

was never my intention to switch because of any fotm nerfs

[rigid mango]

Jesus what a spam

[orchid berry]

been playing sin for ages in ol meta

[royal lantern]

zine, you missed the best part yesterday :c

[rigid mango]

Hm?

I went to bed

[royal lantern]

the salt

[rigid mango]

Kept my sanity at bay

[royal lantern]

so much salt

[rigid mango]

Nah I saw some of it

And I'm not staying online for long

Sin and outlaw are probably very similar

[steep obsidian]

thats a pretty standard list argos for single target sin

[dense cedar]

Why is the talent called Hidden Blades?

Like, anyone who inspects you can see that you chose that talent. Not exactly hidden...

[rigid mango]

Outlaw takes first prio in the group, sin/outlaw second and dh/monk/rogue as 3rd

Probs

[solid vapor]

is there a good set of WA for assas?

[tropic ocean]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[dense cedar]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[dense cedar]

whoops

[solid vapor]

thank you

jesus 5 of em lol

[tropic ocean]

can recommend mizerok one

[rigid mango]

Miz is one that's online here

A lot

And can respond when help is needed

Just ping him like this

[tropic ocean]

Was using it forever till i figured how to individualize weak auras (and he helped me a lot with that)

[rigid mango]

@civic palm

[onyx venture]

2x TTK, 2x EB, 2x SS for tyrannical, 3x EB + any combination of the others for fortified?

[tropic ocean]

2/2/2 good for everything

[solid vapor]

i main sham... but picking rogue back up and just wanted to try and get going lol

[rigid mango]

3 eb in fort fh/ml

I stick to 2/2/2 for others

3 ss for kr/tos

[tropic ocean]

3eb for fortified pad (wouldnt rec on bolstering)

[dense cedar]

Rogue is shaman for people who are actually good and cool

😎

[rigid mango]

3 ttk for bolst/sang

[cobalt pelican]

just be nelf master race

[dense cedar]

M+ nelf is fun

[rigid mango]

Velf looks nicer

[dense cedar]

Don't get ur poison casts slowed down @rigid mango

[cobalt pelican]

me at the top of the meter with 70% garrote damage looks nicererer

[rigid mango]

[solid vapor]

is there a way to make Wiz WA smaller? like resize it

nvm found lol :/

[rigid mango]

I'm a man of feels and looks, damage is nothing for me

[dense cedar]

Best DPS quote

[shut pasture]

!azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o

[shut pasture]

What does 2/2/2 mean

[bright smelt]

2ss 2ttk 2eb

cookie cutter m+ azerite

@shut pasture

[shut pasture]

Ty

[umbral fiber]

do warcraft logs for m+ matter in terms of parse is it meme ?

[rigid mango]

Nope

Garbage metric to use

[umbral fiber]

thought so

[tropic ocean]

you can check some stuff if you filter by actual logged runs

The ranking itself just ranks by lvl of key and intime or not

[normal shale]

I see we don't mention Luxthos' WA, I generally use his all in one's for my classes for easy spec switch. Any personal opinions on why I shouldn't use Luxthos, and maybe give Miz's a shot? Or is this just personal opinion.

I have noticed my WA eating tons of memory, and I'm sure it's because it's an all in one.

[tropic ocean]

personal preference

[proven furnace]

So question, is DD just garbo for M+?

[tropic ocean]

yes

[proven furnace]

Seems to be doing fine DMG though, which is why I'm skeptical

[tropic ocean]

it does fine dmg in st

[umbral fiber]

There are just better options

[tropic ocean]

M+ is just multi target most of the time so you wont use mutilate a lot

And for 3-4 target cleave ss ist just superior

[proven furnace]

You're probably right, I need more Azerite pieces though. Everything I seem to get has DD on it or something worse

[tropic ocean]

and with current fight durations ss is superior on boss too

[proven furnace]

I have 3DD,2SS,1NP currently, which is kinda...

[tropic ocean]

bad

[proven furnace]

Your words exactly

[tropic ocean]

what I did I was just using 420 pueces

Pieces until I had good ones

[proven furnace]

Is that worth though?

[deep meteor]

!essence

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd

[drifting cloud]

Well im still using 420 pieces

[proven furnace]

So do you guys think I should just try and get 2/2/2?

[desert vault]

heh, I think my m+ setup is still completely 420, maybe one 430

[proven furnace]

Well shit

I guess my 445 piece is staying for raids then

[tropic ocean]

I mean seli is using 420s

And hes r1 assa player

[drifting cloud]

Hes not anymore afaik

[tropic ocean]

guess right traits > all

[proven furnace]

So 2/2/2, do I want anything else?

[drifting cloud]

Hes got engi helm behe chest and forgot which shoulders

[proven furnace]

Like another set for a different week etc.

[placid root]

So is outlaw on top of dps now?

[tropic ocean]

this is assa channel

@outer lintel 2/2/2 is pretty good for every week

I mainly just reduce/increase eb depending on key and if fortified or not

and for tyran kr/tos I use 3 ss+2ttk and 1 eb

but that only really matters for higher keys anywy

[reef sky]

@placid root probably not for single target no

[tropic ocean]

2/2/2 will be fine for everything

[proven furnace]

Alright

And the 420 pieces should do a better job than the higher pieces I have with DD

[tropic ocean]

definetely yes

[proven furnace]

Alright, thanks chief

[reef sky]

if i wanna respec to sin for lady ashvane only, what azerite traits would yall recommend on that fight? (mythic)

[tropic ocean]

3 dd 1 np

rest depending on your pieces

[reef sky]

which one is np

[tropic ocean]

nothing personal

the vendetta buff

[reef sky]

ah yep

so you dont wanna stack np?

[tropic ocean]

it heavily dependson your pieces

[stone crescent]

worth using 445 engi helm over a lower ilvl one that has 2 of either eb/ss/ttk?

[tropic ocean]

like behemoth chest and the helm are very decent

and mostly outperform 430 bis piece

so if u have them on 445 sim and use them

[proven furnace]

@tropic ocean Okay, so now it's 2/2/2 with 2 Heed My Call and 1 OP. This should perform way better in M+ scenarios?

[tropic ocean]

yes

[proven furnace]

Just asking because I may aswell, I care about building Rupture on as many targets as I can or no? During AoE

[deep beacon]

Maybe 3 you want to try to gauge how long they will live...

[reef sky]

is haste super important to stack for good dps as assasination?

[proven furnace]

So the idea for Rupture is, if I can get at least 3/4th of the duration or so?

But I don't want to stop having envenom buff going

[faint harness]

all stats are good for assa, but you should follow whatever sims tell you

[drifting cloud]

You just want the energy regen from them to spam more fok

After like 5 you are gcd capped or close to atleast

[proven furnace]

Alright, so around 5 but not above

[drifting cloud]

Then just fok or env prio targets

[proven furnace]

The dmg is irrelevant compared to the energy I get. Got ya

Thanks bud

[faint harness]

I mean not 5 ruptures

usually ppl do 3 garrotes and 2 ruptures

[drifting cloud]

Dmg is ok but mostly for energy

[faint harness]

and thats enough

[proven furnace]

alright

[drifting cloud]

Just dont apply garrote if its not from subt

[proven furnace]

I'll just experiment with what feels right

[drifting cloud]

Those are wasted

[proven furnace]

Alright

[dawn anchor]

So, with Outlaw, there's the ability to Grappling Hook > Sap things with truesight. Is there any way to beat truesight like that with Sin?

[royal lantern]

thats less a function, and more something broken on outlaw btw

[dawn anchor]

Figured, just wanted to make sure there wasn't a macro I could be spamming with Step/Sap

[cobalt pelican]

you can step sap the same as you can hook sap

it's just a tighted window cause it's range based

[scarlet sequoia]

r1 on radiance

[faint harness]

if you only get 1 intermission on that fight

[bronze kelp]

@dawn anchor yoi can also distract + sap

[dawn anchor]

@bronze kelp Thanks, good to know.

[bronze kelp]

But sap at max range, cause distract only takes them a short amount of time longer to see you

[tribal marlin]

bettr to also use sprint to do that

I mean I'm sure you can do it without sprint but it's risky

[wooden fog]

@scarlet sequoia did u go pure St? Or SS traits, iris?

[cobalt pelican]

st is better than cleave on radiance for this spec

if you're playing ss all your cooldowns are awkward unless your guild takes 7 years to kill the stormwraiths

[wooden fog]

Aight prob just 1 phased it and burned fast

[cobalt pelican]

1 intermission but yeah

[wooden fog]

Ya

Question: outlaw or aoe assa for mythic orgozoa since outlaw got big aoe nerfs?

[cobalt pelican]

don't think anyone knows 100%, you can probably check your 4t patchwerk sims using priority_rotation=1 for assassination

randomly guessing i'd say outlaw is probably still better overall

[scarlet sequoia]

@wooden fog what

[wooden fog]

I saw no one ran aoe assa build in wowlogs so I think it's up in the air still, I'll have to do that thanks

[scarlet sequoia]

i was just playing normal stuff

fuck padding

[wooden fog]

eyy my man

[dawn root]

My outlaw sim shows that in aoe I lost about 7.5% overall. Still will be very strong, just not OP in M+ environment (which will hurt raid where many other aoe classes are very strong)

[cobalt pelican]

i don't think you literally even can pad unless your guild is leaving you all of the intermission mobs

[wooden fog]

7.5% isn't nearly as bad as I thought

[dawn root]

yeah definitely hurts but many saw this coming. Only a matter of time since MDI comps were often running 2-3 outlaw rogues lol

I just can't seem to get the right gear to be able to swap to assassination yet. My azerite is decent but I sim so low compared to OL

[sick eagle]

is BotE best for pushing high keys?

[faint harness]

Visions of perfection

[eternal turtle]

so what exactly are the best traits for raids/mythic? are most of the better ones pretty equal? since i see a lot of people take different stuff

[sick eagle]

for raiding I usually see 3 DD and TTK/Nothing Persoanl

[lean wing]

!essence

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd

[sick eagle]

for m+ its 3 SS and 2/3 EB and 1 TTK depending un dung

[eternal turtle]

okay okay

[vocal kelp]

Doubt that 3 SS is bis for m+, its good for certain dungs but especially in fortified keys mobs die way to late or way to early

2/2/2 is generally good for all dungs but 1ss/2eb/3ttk seems really good aswell

[sick eagle]

it' still 40% of your damage

3SS has pretty much always been BiS

[faint harness]

Not really

[vocal kelp]

x to doubt on that one

And if tanks decide to chain pull which they do quite a lot SS loses even more value

[crimson condor]

you guys still feel CT is dead for m+ over TB?

err PB

[polar shale]

then make yourself a tank friend who knows how to play with a sin rogue,problem solved

[rigid mango]

CT is fucking dead.

[dawn root]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sv3VQJ7uBrLv1tURcv618w
Why is my dungeon slice sim so low?

[faint harness]

cus dungeon slice isnt good for assa

[woeful minnow]

MA in dungeon with 2 shrouded

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9UBUrvBjfnvRxEitF87zvf

[faint harness]

MA in m+

[tropic ocean]

@sick eagle 3ss has never been bis since eb came out, its good in some circumstances thats it

[dawn root]

hahah that was a mistake on my part. Simply copied over my ST talents and didn't change that

thanks for the catch

[faint harness]

try sim deeper strat too

[woeful minnow]

🤢

[narrow quiver]

so for M+ playing subterfuge, do I want 2x EB, 2x TtK, and 2x NP?

[tropic ocean]

No np

[woeful minnow]

eb/ttk/ss

[narrow quiver]

oh duh SS

[tropic ocean]

mix ss eb ttk to any of your likings

2/2/2 prove being viable in basically every affix combination

[faint harness]

2/2/2 is a good start and then when you're more comfortable with the spec and understands what traits work for what you can mix it in ur own way

[cobalt pelican]

i wish i had pieces for 2/2/2 above 270 ilvl

why must all the raid pieces have scent of blood on them

[faint harness]

just get lucky 4head

[dawn root]

Scent of blood generally terrible in M+?

[faint harness]

i mean orgozoa shoulders and behemoth chest both have good m+ traits

[olive night]

Hey, new assa player here, thanks for contributing to this discord and helping people like me 😄

I tried to find a dotting logic for m+ and the 2/2/2 build you all talk about, but I don't find any clear explanation. After 3 garrote out of stealth and a rupture, should I build CP with FoK to rupture each targets at 4+cp ? Mostly thinking about big pulls and not 3-4 cleave.

[narrow quiver]

yeah, my azerite is garbage for sin

[faint harness]

Nibana you can put up 1-2 ruptures after doing the 3 garrotes from stealth and then spam fok

[cobalt pelican]

behemoth chest is okay yeah the problem is getting eb on non-trashp ieces

[olive night]

Is it worth dumping my CP into envenom ?

[cobalt pelican]

i can get 445 3ttk 3ss pretty easily

[narrow quiver]

garrote 3 targets > rupture 2-3 > FoK for CP > envenom, keep rupture up for energy

[cobalt pelican]

then the eb always comes as a package deal with garbage or 420 ilvl

[olive night]

Thanks 😃

[faint harness]

pvp head

has TTK + EB

Pistoleer shoulders have EB + SS

[narrow quiver]

irontide captain's hat has EB & Ttk, plus OP

have to win the lottery at the azerite vendor though

[olive night]

Flashpower Hood as well with Heed

[faint harness]

ye its def easier to gear for outlaw

[narrow quiver]

flashpowder doesn't have OP though... has heed my call

[olive night]

Edited, thought you were only talking about EB + Ttk

[ripe shale]

U think people will be more open to assa after they all saw the outlul nerf.

?

[faint harness]

i think there might be some knee-jerk swaps

[bronze kelp]

Many will panic switch spec

[narrow quiver]

I just respecced from outlaw. Been playing sin in raid, but I'm thinking of full-timing sin now

[cobalt pelican]

you can play both specs you won't die

[bronze kelp]

Just have a look what these nerfs will really bring

Outlaw will stay competitive in m+ environment

[shy dust]

And assassination still needs specific traits to be good for M+

Making gearing harder than having one wits

[bronze kelp]

Just be able to play both specs 😉

[faint harness]

i have azerite for all 3 specs

[bronze kelp]

Or maybe all three if sub gets its comeback sometime in the future

[faint harness]

the joys of getting shit azerite from gamble, that works for other specs

[shy dust]

Tell that to blighted chest piece

Wait nvm I think that has SS EB

[bronze kelp]

Yes it has

[shy dust]

Just still annoyed that’s the only piece I’ve gotten this season

[bronze kelp]

Bis piece at season 1 start for 3ss 3eb

[faint harness]

EB wasnt a thing in season 1

[shy dust]

^

[faint harness]

also items didnt have 2 dps rings

[cobalt pelican]

2ss archive gamers

[fleet whale]

2SS 2TTK and 2EB seems like a solid all around combo for me

just one of my pieces i idk what to pick for third ring

right now it's OP
'

[narrow quiver]

if you go low haste build, I think 3x OP is best answer there

[shy dust]

I’d have a pretty decent m+ if I had any shoulders with good traits better than 420

[muted maple]

i have 2 shrouded's (no better items) if im opening on a large pack of mobs, should I forego rupture and just empowered garrotte everything I can?

the mobs will live for the whole rup

garrote *

[tropic ocean]

You always open with

G g g r

[muted maple]

okay so dont overcap even if it means more shrouded garrottes

ty ty

[tropic ocean]

?

You cant put more than 3 buffed garrotes in 1 window

[muted maple]

oh nevermind

[faint harness]

you can only get 3

[muted maple]

yeah you're right, my bad

[fleet whale]

and after that FoK to envenom to your main target

[tropic ocean]

in theory if you could overcapping wouldnt matter

As the buffed garrotes are so strong

[fleet whale]

Garrote is always my #1 source of damage in M+ run with two SS

[muted maple]

yeah its real strong

[fleet whale]

combined FOK damage is second or third, depends on iris

[strange python]

finally rolled benthic wrists with socket and it's those with effect on taking damage, do I just keep trying?

[tropic ocean]

Yes

[lean wing]

go for benthic wrist or boots 1st ?

[unkempt karma]

Puffer or frost for wrists

So keep rolling

[lean wing]

got frost with socket

[unkempt karma]

Keep it :) won't benefit you in m+ so if you get higher item lvl ones later with better stats it should be better for m+

[tropic ocean]

Boots

Most important benthic piece

[unkempt karma]

Raid wise it's benthic

^ what he said

[strange python]

Thanks guys. Got the crit boots already, back to farming now..

[tropic ocean]

Good luck friend

[unkempt karma]

Then get the waist ;) if you can

[tropic ocean]

yeah should get waist before wrists

As you can get it really fast since theres only 2? Different belts iirc

[strange python]

Ok. I see Icy Veins lists the wrist as first benthic piece to get, but that's a good point

[lean wing]

benthic can be upgraded up to 455 ?

[tropic ocean]

to 425

[lean wing]

ty

[bronze kelp]

@faint harness didnt meant eb, just meant only 3 SS XD s1 was too long ago

[uncut cave]

ori's wrists are better than vim's belt for pure ST

thats why icy veins recommends it first, and pufferfish is better for 3+ targets

[lean wing]

i got boots with socket in 8 try 😄

[placid cipher]

So I just ran a sim on my stat weights and it says that aside from weapon dps, mastery/crit are my highest stats when I thought it was haste/crit for assassination, am I wrong or is my sim funky?

[faint harness]

depends on a lot of factors

traits, essences, talents

[strange python]

now I got a socket on the swimspeed wrists

[fleet whale]

bis for fish boss

[ripe shale]

got a socket on the ridingspeed boots

bought 50 boots today

yeyyyy

[placid root]

how do you sim for dung dmg?

[tropic ocean]

either dungeonslice

or somewhat 4-5 mobs 40sec to 1 min fight duration

can't really accurately sim for m+ as it heavily depends on the group, pull size, and affixes + emissary pattern

[placid root]

yea but where is the dungeonslice section cant seem to find it

[strange python]

Dont roll for socket on your Rogue, send benthic pieces from alts, Just incase you are wasting your pearls

[tropic ocean]

https://prnt.sc/oqz21w

where it says patchwerk u can choose different fight-styles amount of mobs and fight duration

[glass matrix]

This might be dumb but what gives u the ability to do garrote multiple times it's always on a 5 second CD for me is it a talent or trait I'm missing ?

[strange python]

Subterfuge talent - out of stealth you can get multiple garrotes

[glass matrix]

Okay so subterfuge is a must during m+?

[visual quartz]

usually always

the silence alone is too good

iron wire I mean

[glass matrix]

Is there an ideal talent build to aim for with m+ ? I know raiding u go towards dd more

[visual quartz]

SS, TTK, EB all really strong but personally havnt been doing much M+ for my info is old

[glass matrix]

Tyty

[bronze kelp]

@glass matrix i would recommend you to read a guide, the one in the pins is not bad

[glass matrix]

Thanks @bronze kelp
Just reading through the guild there and I noticed that ss mentions exsanguinate how often does anyone run exsanguinate iv not clue what it even is lol

[upbeat hazel]

Worth to use clf on pull on ashvane if im holding 2 mins for 1st p2?

[scarlet sequoia]

yes

[upbeat hazel]

Also how big of a dps loss is it to hardswap on ashvane bubbles every time?

[scarlet sequoia]

just put bleeds up and thats pretty much it

[upbeat hazel]

Yeah but if i hard swap and do envs on them, how bad is it

[scarlet sequoia]

doesnt matter much

[faint harness]

not a big thing unless you ahve cds up

[upbeat hazel]

Kk

[cobalt pelican]

if it's between tbs it's probably a smalll gain

if you have a short tb on the bubble/lose some of the buff time on the boss it's probably a small loss

but either way it's not going to be significant

[agile oar]

who do you guys recommend me watch for sin mythic plus keys?

[small radish]

Worth getting some assa azerite pieces for m+? Echoing blades + ss

[woeful minnow]

yes if you're going to run m+ as assa...?

seliathan @agile oar

[rigid mango]

Twitch.tv/incarnated

[unreal notch]

when do you use condensed life force with the new MA opener?

[severe sedge]

do i put rupture on as many targets as i can before envenom after garrote in m+?

[lost horizon]

Enough to sustain your energy

@unreal notch after initial MA window, before vendetta

[polar dagger]

if i garrote a 4th target out of stealth, i know it wont be empowered but the other 3 will still be empowered right?

[royal roost]

yes

[polar dagger]

solrry new to sin

[severe sedge]

so like 3-4 rupture?

then envenom spam main?=

[polar dagger]

usually 5 bleeds is enough for NRG regen

[severe sedge]

counting the 3 garrote?

[polar dagger]

3 garrotes and 2 ruptures

works for me

[royal roost]

im not an expert. but usually ill garrote 3, somtimes 4 - put out about 3 ruptures, then uses evenoms

[real bay]

g g g r fok fok r or something like that

[royal roost]

depending on mob health, ill fok/rputure reguardless of points generated

[real bay]

then do what you do

[polar dagger]

than i just FoK into Envm. on main target

[royal roost]

yeah , i usually keep out about 3 rputures unless they are dying off

[upbeat hazel]

How many targets for fok>muti with and without eb?

[polar dagger]

is razor coral even good in m+? doesnt seem so. seems better for raid

[royal roost]

i think you can fok 2 targets outside of vendeta

inside its 3 i believe

[vocal kelp]

without EB fok > mut is close to 4-5 targets

[real bay]

you just do fok to keep poisons going

no eb

with no eb you likely have DD

[polar dagger]

is razor coral even good in m+? doesnt seem so. seems better for raid

[noble vale]

If you’re running DD in M+ something is wrong, I really can’t think of a time where it’s useful

[autumn trench]

anyone know a log using mech rings combo?

or know average uptime

[rigid mango]

Depends which ring

[autumn trench]

attack from behind + haste

[rigid mango]

It has like 98% uptime or smth

Like, you can proc the from behind on cd

So count it just like a 15s cd haste proc

[autumn trench]

okay, thanks

[quartz depot]

i mean it's useful on bosses i guess

[polar dagger]

OK SELF

[rigid mango]

What's useful on bosses?

[quartz depot]

replying to DD guy above

[rigid mango]

If it's DD in m+? No. Never.

[quartz depot]

ye i know

but bosses are the only use it has

[fervent jasper]

Seliathan uses the coral in m+

I wouldn't question it

[wet ruin]

@polar dagger coral is good in m+ yes

[teal maple]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kLDBdWAe6MNkY317YDaN1Z

does this one show that i should prio mastery?

[cobalt pelican]

it shows that one point of mastery gives you 4.55 dps in your current gear if added ontop of exactly what you have

and that's about it

don't take much from it

[teal maple]

Ah okay

[fathom wyvern]

with those trinkets how do i wanna open?

since 1 goes on cd when i use the other

[cyan wren]

should i be using ashavnaes and azshara's trinket both of them same time if so if there WA i need to get and if there a rotation change for those trinks

[distant lava]

precast font at 5

[lean coral]

^

[distant lava]

do normal shit

when GCB comes back up

you press it

and stay in it

[fathom wyvern]

@distant lava ye but on pull

i prepop ashara trink on 5 sec

or do i use it after boon?`

[deep parcel]

anyone have a guide for how to aoe dps in a dungeon? I feel like I'm getting something wrong

[shy dust]

He just said

Use it on 5 seconds till pull

Meaning the boon would go on a 20 second cd

[fathom wyvern]

ye but then the boon is on cd and wont line with vendetta

[shy dust]

Yet font would

[cyan wren]

i got both those trinks same night 440 razor coral and 430 azashara so now i need to practice lol

[distant lava]

I just told you what you do on pull

you precast azshara

and use GCB when it comes up

you have a blue name

[shy dust]

what’s that even stand for

[cobalt pelican]

welcome members of dead specs to masterrace channel

enjoy your stay

[distant lava]

yeah right

good luck for m+

one tricks

[royal lantern]

shouldnt you reroll too another fotm class :?

[shy dust]

are you outlaw for this dungeon?

[royal lantern]

''you have been removed from the group''

[cobalt pelican]

best part about these changes is all the shit flinging i love it

[royal lantern]

nah, just wait until the next mdi is out, and they play something like 2xdh 1xww

[manic cairn]

Hey guys, i need some help with my Rogue...idk what to do to get better because im Simming 39k xD but i never get it nearly...so my question is where is my failure and what can i do better? - SIM: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wboQLmaEsPTbmF1qUM1Gqv

[royal lantern]

and you dont get into keys as a rogue at all

[shy dust]

The best thing is seeing randoms in outlaw go WILL WE STILL BE GOOD

[manic cairn]

https://de.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/antonidas/jinas logs^^

[royal lantern]

get bethnic gear with sockets

and lucid dreams3

[manic cairn]

sims says the guardian is a lot besser

better* xD

[dark crag]

Lucid3 minor

[shy dust]

Lucid dreams minor

[cobalt pelican]

azsharas glanz

nice

[royal lantern]

and btw, prey on the weak is pretty pointless

iron wire/internal bleeding are much better both

[arctic walrus]

You desynced your vanish from your vendetta for no reason

[cobalt pelican]

and font by like

25 seconds

somehow you have no fonts lined up with vendetta at all you just press it randomly

i guess you at least casted it precombat

[manic cairn]

yes...so i timed it before vendetta is up

[cobalt pelican]

it's like almost always the same things in these logs, lots of unncessary button mashing lots of unncessary fokking and like not understanding how cooldowns get used together

your 2nd vend on your only mythic radiance log is at 2:03, 2nd font at 2:49 and 2nd vanish at 3:09

[arctic walrus]

Your energy seems to be quite high on average, looking at m radiance

[shy dust]

Could’ve not used it during add phase?

[arctic walrus]

Could just be lucid but I'm unsure

[royal lantern]

lucid sometimes keeps you at really high energy lvls for quite some time

[visual quartz]

Running MA and not lining vanish MAwindow inside vendetta seems odd

[arctic walrus]

Okay yeah nvm on the energy, looks like it's just a lucid major thing

[cobalt pelican]

FREE energy

[manic cairn]

which pot is good for my unbr. fury or crit?

[cobalt pelican]

woo

[shy dust]

Fury

[royal lantern]

@zinc zealot @weary loom you play poison bomb because the other talents are....not THAT great right now

CT is bad because EB FoK does more dmg and you can use the CP for other stuff, hiddenblades CAN work, but poison bomb is simply the overall choice cus it gives a small aoe and single target dps boost

and you still pump envenoms into targets with higher hp too get them down

[rigid mango]

Seli did some maths on it at hb wouldn't even be an overall gain in dps over pb so

[zinc zealot]

you almost never use CPS in AOE situtations

[rigid mango]

Uhh

Wrong.

[royal lantern]

what...?

[rigid mango]

You can ignore them in some scenarios

[royal lantern]

if you want too play like a outlaw MUH BIG NUMBARS, yes, you just spam fok with 3x EB in every single pack, but then you can play outlaw anyway 🤷

[rigid mango]

But prio pumping envenoms is the case aslong as there's a prio target

[zinc zealot]

you probably use 15 combo points for 30 seconds of pure AOE dmg

[rigid mango]

And there nearly always is.

But when do u do pure aoe

Outside of fh/ml

[zinc zealot]

in any high key

[rigid mango]

[royal lantern]

i too want those bleeds that hold for over 30sec so i never need too spend cp zine

[rigid mango]

Yeah man

Fuck playing prio target like you should

3 eb ss all the way

[fleet whale]

So after a few weeks, i really don't think Beguiling is that bad

infested was worse

[faint harness]

infested was way worse

[royal lantern]

infested was bullshit

[cobalt pelican]

it's pretty okay

[fleet whale]

also, we all had shit gear

[rigid mango]

Beguiling is nice

[fleet whale]

with one azerite trait

[rigid mango]

I luke it

Like*

[cobalt pelican]

i don't really like or dislike it which i guess is a good thing

since it doesn't make me want to die

[royal lantern]

i dont like how the shield emmisarys sometimes go full out of controll and ninjapull stuff

[fleet whale]

and no EB, just that pvp talent that they made into an azerite trait for some reason

[cobalt pelican]

they need to fix some stuff still like the tides in waycrest basement buffing through the floor

but those are only mildly annoying

[royal lantern]

that 1 emmisary in TD this week

on the 2nd floor

that goes trought the ceeling if you knock it back too much

and pulls the entire upper floor at once

[fleet whale]

TD has had problems the whole expansion

[cobalt pelican]

yeaa enchanteds need like checks for out of bounds or something

[fleet whale]

the geometry is just messed up

[cobalt pelican]

so many of them just go through walls and pull stuff

[faint harness]

TD is a bullshit dungeon, you can pull the entire thing through the wall

[royal lantern]

using blood on the 3flamecaster trashpack after the door

[fleet whale]

i remember a teeming infested week, the pack before the second boss, two of the shield guys had the infested debuff

[royal lantern]

and ninjapull the 2casters+1captain in the room next too you

[fleet whale]

that was rough

[royal lantern]

😄

[fleet whale]

reaping could get you stuck in infinite combat in TD

wow, i just realized, early BFA days

were really bad

[faint harness]

imagine azerite items with 1 dps ring

[royal lantern]

immagine old ss

[fleet whale]

imagine no EB, imagine low secondary stats, imagine AP grind being way worse

imagine being forced to take that uldir trait

[royal lantern]

we dont need EB, sin aoe is all poison bomb rng

[fleet whale]

i still use PB in M+ just cause i feel it's consistent

[cobalt pelican]

ya looking back season 1 bfa was actually tragic

[royal lantern]

everyone does

[dusky tinsel]

I wish CT had some viability, I enjoyed playing with it

[sullen pagoda]

u didnt really use poison bomb most were playing CT @royal lantern

[cobalt pelican]

imagine your depressing uldir raiding

and jumpin straight into a dungeon with

infested and 1 and a half traits

[lime echo]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/deGGmsB9KbwfjMVveRGtna Hello all, i sim myself and i have 38k dps, but i never get it, where is my failure plz ??, thanks.

[royal lantern]

(its a joke cus a outlaw guy said like 15min ago that sin aoe is only poisonbomb rng)

[sullen pagoda]

oh

[true nexus]

is crimson tempest actually a thing

[royal lantern]

not anymore

[fleet whale]

I legit haven't used CT since the pre-patch

[royal lantern]

EB is stronger

[sullen pagoda]

that guy must be stuck in legion LUL

[dusky tinsel]

I meme CT sometimes in key boosts

[fleet whale]

always seemed like fools gold

[dapper plover]

.

[sullen pagoda]

i mean its not even bad at all

[dapper plover]

oh shit, you cant use that word here

[solid nova]

@dapper plover Take the hint

[dapper plover]

i thought it was my internet

[solid nova]

.

[royal lantern]

if it gets auto removed, think for 2sec wath you wrote 😄

[fleet whale]

i liked to use EB with reaping, but now i just stick with PB

[dapper plover]

what word can i use to describe the sin vs outlaw

[solid nova]

A better educated one

[dusky tinsel]

default better after Tuesday

[fleet whale]

un-nerfed vs nerfed

[sullen pagoda]

you mean hidden blades or what EB has nothing to do with PB @fleet whale

[dapper plover]

im sorry big man richard

[zinc zealot]

the top sin rogues for m+ atm all use different talents for the lvl100 row

[fleet whale]

yeah i meant Hidden blades sorry

[eternal turtle]

https://puu.sh/E3Cxo/7dbc849725.png

is this a normal opener on 1 target? Seems a bit odd to me

[dusky tinsel]

yeah, with subterfuge and SS

[sullen pagoda]

HB was always jebait looking talent for me tbh @fleet whale

[eternal turtle]

you garrote the same target twice?

[dusky tinsel]

mhmm

[faint harness]

yes

[fleet whale]

for pandemic

[faint harness]

its to make the dot last longer

[dusky tinsel]

you're pandemicing your garrotes

increasing the dot duration

[bronze kelp]

To have a longer empowered garrote

[eternal turtle]

oh

[true nexus]

and it gives u cp

[eternal turtle]

i see

[true nexus]

faster than other stuff right

[bronze kelp]

Double ss garrote = 6 CP

[eternal turtle]

also any idea why it uses my trinket not right away?

[bronze kelp]

Or 5 with vigor

[eternal turtle]

since it has no gcd

[median sand]

@lime echo what is your sustained dps? Undulating tides will always sim higher than reality

[teal hatch]

Hey, so i recently started playing rogue and was wondering which trait setup i should be aiming for ?

[dusky tinsel]

you're using your trinket with vendetta

[cobalt pelican]

it's just how use items are handled, you can use it on your first global and it will be better

[bronze kelp]

@teal hatch what content for?

[dusky tinsel]

^

[eternal turtle]

oh the dmg increase on the first vendetta aswell

i get it

thnx guys

[median sand]

@lime echo You simmed with subterfuge talent with no shrouded suffocation traits

[teal hatch]

raiding mostly @bronze kelp

[bronze kelp]

U already read a guide?

Should be the first thing, cause it covers up many many points

[fleet whale]

switching from Subter to MA even with no SS

[bronze kelp]

But in general double dose is a very good ST trait

[fleet whale]

is like a 200-300 dps increase

[green vortex]

hello, i'm a returning player looking to level up a rogue, could anyone quickly tell me what are the more viables specs in m+ and raiding currently please? also is Sub rogue still the more complex spec to play? (i played rogue in MoP)

[fleet whale]

raiding, go sin

[dusky tinsel]

sub isnt complex anymore

[fleet whale]

M+, go sin or outlaw

and sub really isn't that hard, in fact in some ways it's easier than the other two depending on the build

[bronze kelp]

If you don't play very high level: play what u like more 😉

[sullen pagoda]

or in other words if u need to ask it doesnt matter for you

[dusky tinsel]

just ask yourself, do you want to manage dots, be a pirate, or spam shadow strike over and over again the entire encounter

[teal hatch]

So hows the trait nothing personal then? it sims high on bloodmallet @bronze kelp

[green vortex]

i see so either Outlaw or Assa, is one of those significantly harder / easier than the other? or are they similar in terms of complexity

[sullen pagoda]

u spam something as any spec its just how generators work

[rigid mango]

Entirely diff specs

One is slow preplanning based spec, that doesn't lose much from downtime

One is a higher apm, reactionary spec based on knowing rotational priorities

I don't think the complexities of the two are really comparable

[shrewd night]

[green vortex]

oh ok

Which one is the second one ?

[dusky tinsel]

outlaw

[rigid mango]

Outlaw

[green vortex]

alright nice

[rigid mango]

The two are really different and I like both

Some people have a strong pref for either, but they are like a night and day diff to play and it's nice to have both around

[atomic geyser]

I just wanna play sub for raiding

[green vortex]

from what i've red above Outlaw is nice in m+ but not as much as sin in Raiding? Can it still do competitive damage?

[bronze kelp]

@teal hatch its quite good and having at least one is a good thing

[rigid mango]

They're both fine

[atomic geyser]

sin has pretty much straight up the best priority target damage of any dps for raid

at least for melee

[rigid mango]

Sin and outlaw are similar in m+, outlaw might just be a bit behind raid wise now

[dusky tinsel]

yeah its adopted what sub was supposed to be

[rigid mango]

But ultimatly wont matter unless you're in a top guild

[atomic geyser]

outlaw is very good for cleaving adds which is pretty useful this tier

[dusky tinsel]

before it got gutted

[teal hatch]

So I shouldnt be trying to get 3x of it ? @bronze kelp

[green vortex]

good to head

thanks a lot

[atomic geyser]

lots of adds that need to die ASAP in EP

unfortunately the outlaw aoe nerfs kinda fuck it a bit for raiding

[bronze kelp]

@teal hatch try to get 3 double dose and at least 1 nothing personal

[atomic geyser]

but it's still decent on Org and Za'qul mythic

[dusky tinsel]

I'm surprised they didnt give sub a blanket 5% buff like the rest of the classes they're trying to bandaid

[fleet whale]

Sin's identity technically is suppose to be very strong Sustained damage on a prio target while sub is supposed to be burstier

but sin has higher burst anyway

[rigid mango]

I'm really unsure if they're still fine for orgo

I think sin is a lot better on zaq though

[fleet whale]

esp if you go down

all that haste

[rigid mango]

They'll work, but the hit was big.

[atomic geyser]

yeah I mean I think sin is straight up better on every fight now

100%

[dusky tinsel]

probably

[atomic geyser]

but outlaw can still do ok on those

[dusky tinsel]

I don't have to worry about continuing to fish for divers folly anymore at least

[atomic geyser]

esp if you really need the add damage

[rigid mango]

They can do fine on radiance and ashvane too probs

[atomic geyser]

eh the adds get murdered on radiance

so it's kinda eh

[rigid mango]

Depends entirely on comp

But yeah, normally

For us outlaw and fury are the highest dps, not super relevant dps but still

[atomic geyser]

yeah lol my group has 2 outlaw and 2 fury

so we basically insta kill small adds

[rigid mango]

We have one of either, so they get to go either sife

[fleet whale]

is it worth grinding out conflict and strife for M+?

[royal lantern]

for sin no

conflict and strife is only a thing for monks

[fleet whale]

that's what i thought but the minor ranking doesn't seem too bad on hero damage

[worthy kernel]

!Essence

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd

[rigid mango]

Conflict and crucible were simming very close as 2nd minor iirc

[scenic saffron]

What do you guys think we will use for our 2nd minor ?

[ornate grotto]

Sim yourself mate

[rigid mango]

I mean

I did just say cf and crucible

[scenic saffron]

oh lol

[dark crag]

World vein minor

[civic palm]

o _O

[rigid mango]

O_o

[dark crag]

<_<

[fleet whale]

so what if you had a kill where DD procced on every singled mutilate

[dark crag]

Then i would smile and nod

[fleet whale]

so how many of you nerds are at neck level 65 yet?

[rigid mango]

None of the regulars afaik

Know there's one that sims for 51k but never seen him in here

[fleet whale]

I just remember seeing one log and he was using iris as his second minor

[eternal turtle]

i just killed azshara hc first time and got belt titanforged 450 and gloves

[tall narwhal]

guys does this sim seem kinda low for such ilvl ?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jTRsj4zXcubzPa2aMLujNh

[fleet whale]

trinkets and lack of benthic gear

esp boots

also you don't have CLF rank three yet

[tall narwhal]

that i dont

true

[fleet whale]

also, your traits could be a little better

try to get one NP and replace the SS

[tall narwhal]

when i do a top gear sim as an outlaw with the setup that i have right now (meaning all the combos possible) on a pure ST fight i sim about 1.5k dps less

[fleet whale]

in fact with gorak tul's swap from Blightborne to NP

it will be a dps increase since you don't have a single NP

[glass matrix]

How big is rank3 clf compared to rank2?

[tall narwhal]

well

[fleet whale]

it's a huge boost

[tall narwhal]

can you please take a look at this

[civic palm]

Extreme.

[fleet whale]

biggest rank 2 to rank 3 boost in the game

[tall narwhal]

ah cra[

i marked to run a comparison of all traits possible

and these went out on top

[glass matrix]

Shit really ?

[tall narwhal]

2 azerite items have NP possible

[glass matrix]

Would u have clf on a main or minor ?

[rigid mango]

Insanely good.

Main

[tall narwhal]

but the sim did not choose them...

[glass matrix]

So that main and lucid junior

Minor

[fleet whale]

idk why that is the case, nothing should beat the first NP trait

[tall narwhal]

:/

[eternal turtle]

you can see the value clf rank 3 gives here
https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/essences/1t-t24-assassination

[tall narwhal]

seems kinda weird to me as well

[civic palm]

could have very low mastery?

[noble vale]

My ST assa set is so scuffed lol

M+ sin equipped 439, m+ outlul 439, ST raid 431

I wish the raid had better itemization for azerite man

[tall narwhal]

@civic palm yes that might be the case

i dont have that much mastery in my gear

i got a lot of crit and versa though, that's probably why outlaw sims good with such stats

[dim sigil]

what azerite pieces do we want boys (vendor & raid)

[dark crag]

Zaqul head, gorak and cephalo from vendor

[scarlet sequoia]

blackwater chest sims higher for me by like 40 dps

😭

fuck using it tho

[haughty flame]

is there any simple guide as how to open with master assassin talent?

[rigid mango]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[rigid mango]

That one, yeah

[haughty flame]

i looked at it

didnt seem so correct

[bronze kelp]

Why?

[arctic walrus]

If you know how to do it better why ask for a guide

[haughty flame]

theres no vanish part

[bronze kelp]

There is

[civic palm]

o _o

[cobalt pelican]

peoples inability to read sure is impressive

[bronze kelp]

Point 7 in the ma opener section

[brisk sedge]

is the Pocket-Sized Computation Device any good and which of the puchcards should i pick from the first quest? yellow or red?

[dark crag]

You can buy a very good red card in mechagon

[shy dust]

You can end up crafting yellow cards that can TF

[obsidian mountain]

<--yellow card: TF 440= +187haste/ 62mastery

[peak saffron]

inkpod + coral work well enough for m+ or should I look for spyglass/dice to replace them?

[spring pagoda]

is it worth to stack 3* EB and 3* SS for m+? i ve seen ppl advertising it as " the best azerite setup"