assassination

[inner wedge]

can you explain more about bleed and coral?

[faint harness]

can someone tell me how to use coral and font trinket

[royal lantern]

wath do you need about the coral?

[shy dust]

Check TC updates

[fleet whale]

Assassin has basically flown under the radar the whole expansion, i think they only got nerfed in the pre-patch and that's it

[faint harness]

its in perfect balance

[daring basalt]

What traits to get for m+?

[inner wedge]

won't agi pot be better with coral, 2nd one?

[grim canopy]

were does sin get his bis traits from, i don t see any in the raid

[royal lantern]

m+ vendor for chest/shoulders

zaqul drops a good head, engineering head is good too

[grim canopy]

damn

[atomic geyser]

anyone happen to have a list of the good azerite pieces on hand

[civic palm]

5USD VENMO

Same as last season, or

Unmooring, Gorak Tuls, Cephalode/Spymaster

I think it's Spymaster, lemme cheeeeeck

checks using a website

https://azerite.info/class/rogue

o _o

yeah that's good

[atomic geyser]

I'm just looking at them all under Droptimizer in raidbots lol

[civic palm]

WELL THEN

FINE

If you are looking for good traits from Raid, bad news there's not much there.

Unmooring is very good and I think the Radiance shoulders are OK.

[atomic geyser]

yeah the Zaqul helm is nice

[swift moss]

How do you open with condensed life force?

[civic palm]

Use it before Vendetta.

[swift moss]

kk

[atomic geyser]

my raid has a decent number of people with Loyal and I have the m radiance shoulders for outlaw so I'll prob just run those for now

[civic palm]

The ORGO shoulders are fine as well for Raiding.

NP TTK OP is very strong.

[atomic geyser]

I've got Twist on like every single piece I have available lol

[civic palm]

Yeah it's rather... everywhere.

It's not BAD either, there's just clearly better options.

[atomic geyser]

ye

[placid mulch]

Anyone else swap from lucid to clf and hate using clf? Damage wise it’s fine but man playstyle I don’t like it

[drifting cloud]

I hated lucid way more

[civic palm]

It's way too spikey, I'd rather the consistency of the 10% haste.

[placid mulch]

I dunno popping it while vendetta was up felt like god mode for a bit just constant energy

[royal lantern]

CLF is the most boring essence ingame

[vital haven]

true

bote

[desert vault]

yet to run Underrot this week, can you shroud at start or nope?

[placid mulch]

Left ramp after pat is dead

[jolly elbow]

Is the chest piece from court not that great?

[vital haven]

the undulating tides chest?

[jolly elbow]

Yeah.

[royal lantern]

its allright

[vital haven]

i mean if you look at it from a dmg perspective

nope

[royal lantern]

undauting tides is a bit complicated, you will never have a 100%dmg uptime with it

and it sims fairly high BECAUSE the sims goes with 100%uptime 🤷

[vital haven]

i mean the shield that you get is good in ceertain fights

[royal lantern]

like, on raidance you will always proc the shield, wich is cool for the healers and stuff, but dps wise you basicly play with less traits

[vital haven]

its a 50k shield

[jolly elbow]

Oh I didn't realise

how it worked.

I thought it meant the shield part went on cd.

[vital haven]

but mainly undulating tides is too punishing

[jolly elbow]

huh.

[royal lantern]

nope, if you get the shield, the dmg proc wont happen until its off cd

[jolly elbow]

Interesting

[royal lantern]

radiance shoulder can be nice if 4 people use loyal too the end

the trait is strong IF other people actually use it

[jolly elbow]

Does shrouded suffocation scale well with extra traits in an m+ environment or is it more a 1 trait wonder?

[royal lantern]

scales pretty good with multiple traits, but deepens on the dungeon if its worth it

[desert vault]

there is a path to skip to first boss in FH right? this week that is

[noble vale]

is it our time boys?!?!

[royal lantern]

sin was always good, outlaw was just always better for m+

[noble vale]

i mean in S2+, we hardlyt saw it in S1

[royal lantern]

what

sin was the ''too-go''spec in season1

[noble vale]

yes exactly

[royal lantern]

cus SS was slightly overtuned

[noble vale]

im saying it in regards to your we always saw outlaw

we didnt see it in S1 lol

[royal lantern]

it was the same situation sin and outlaw have right now 🤷 outlaw was not bad, sin was just better

but wits turned it up by 11

[noble vale]

it was deff sin >sub> outlaw

if only sub still had some viability

[royal lantern]

outlaw is probably still gonna be the best m+ spec

[noble vale]

i just came here to rejoice, i havent gone outlaw at all. Assa dream

[royal lantern]

its gonna hurt raiding outlaw way more, cus now it got a huge hit on its strenght

[shy dust]

Yes let’s rejoice that a spec that other players enjoy got nerfed and is less viable in raids now.

[royal lantern]

^ thinking like that is stupid man

[noble vale]

1000%

[royal lantern]

but like i said once before: the way bladeflurry works makes it pretty hard too balance

[noble vale]

cause im tired of every idiot asking, "oh youre not outlaw?"{ in high keys

[royal lantern]

it was allright in the past, but m+ gave us another highend gameplay thing too do

[noble vale]

so youre enjoyment is great Rae, but when it impedes on mine; tahts what we call needing balance 😃

[low junco]

oh you are not outlaw?

[noble vale]

never

[royal lantern]

and right now we reached a point where outlaw needed a nerf for m+, but it fucks over it in the raid

[low junco]

its fun

[noble vale]

ive tried, i evne have like BIS gear for it lol

the multi dotting and tracking 4 targets feels way more involved

[royal lantern]

and it was allready ''only'' good for most fights, except for fights where you needed heavy aoe burst on demmand(gorgonzola right now etc...)

and now that heavy aoe burst got a heavy hit too......its not cool

[noble vale]

i was fucking around on gorgonzola as sin cleave, and i was doing about 65ish

3 EB, 2SS, 1 UT (not by choice)

[royal lantern]

are people overreacting? yes,many in the outlaw channel do, it was simply broken for m+, but its sucks hard that you are now more or less ''forced'' too play sin for raiding, otherwise you dont perform too 100%

(and yes, ik the same happend too us for 1/2 year now with m+, but doesnt change the fact that shit like that simply sucks)

[noble vale]

ive only had one high IO outlaw rogue make me feel terrible, and it was in SoB which is a terrible assa dungeon

otherwise i dunno, i still think its really viable unless youre speed running MDI

[royal lantern]

they need too change how bladeflurry works OR do m+ only balance changes

[shut pasture]

Hey guys what bosses drop good sin azerite in EP?

[royal lantern]

and btw, thats right now not really assassination related, so dont talk over it here anymore or the shadowblades gonna be angry at me again

[noble vale]

discussing the viability of sin in M+ by mentioning outlaw isnt sin related?

[royal lantern]

@shut pasture current raid is a bit crappy azerite wise for sin

[shut pasture]

Like bad bad

[royal lantern]

radiance shoulders can be good if 4 other people use loyal too the end too

[noble vale]

yeah whoever did our azerite in EP, yikes

[shut pasture]

Or average bad

I'm talking mainly for muhplus

[noble vale]

its even worse for M+ 😦

theres like i think one SS + TTK piece at most

not a single SS EB

[shut pasture]

Guild's having a heroic clear tomorrow and my main is fully geared except trinkets which come from Orgozoa/Shvane

[royal lantern]

ye, m+ you wont find good pieces in the raid

gonna pull from the vendor

[noble vale]

its another reason i think less people play sin, were WAY TOO azerite dependant and have to roll it all

[shut pasture]

FeelsBadMan

I guess I have to play nerfedlaw on my rogue

[royal lantern]

sin scales good with gear/stats, and different stats give you different strenghts 🤷

[noble vale]

i got lucky and got 2x445 SS EB in a row

[royal lantern]

tbh, i see many people going dh now

[shut pasture]

I'm rolling 430s right now but idk if it's the right call

[royal lantern]

people that liked outlaw gameplay, wich is EXTREMLY spammy, will hate sin, wich is slow and waiting for energy too use it later

[shut pasture]

I know 445 are more value but I need dmg right now

[dark crag]

Value vs chance

[noble vale]

maybe its cause im not a betting man, but i love the consistency of assa

[dark crag]

You get 430 faster than a 445, but one lucky try and 445 is giga

[noble vale]

next week im gonna do gGorg as assa

and see what i can do

[dark crag]

I won't roll any tr until i get zaqul head 445

[royal lantern]

get engineering

the head piece is really good

[dark crag]

445 engi, 445 gorak, 445 np ttk

For me 430 is ok for m+

[shut pasture]

I have kinda dogshit azerite atm ngl

[dark crag]

My outlaw azerite is also ok, 2ds 2ace 1 wits 1ar haste thing

[noble vale]

yeah i really love the engi helm for ST

[dark crag]

Also i can excuse getting 445 from radiance and fish for outlaw next reset for orgo

[noble vale]

thats how i got those 2 pieces actrually ahahaha

they made me play outlaw for gorgonzola,. and i was like well if thats the case i need gear lol

[dark crag]

Everyone calls it gorgonzola

[noble vale]

cheese is way nivcer than octopus

[tribal marlin]

Orgozoa as assa is pretty fine if you can play with like 3xTTK

[cobalt pelican]

is it really that much more boss damage to play 3ttk than just play like

dummy rotation gear

[willow prairie]

Hey guys, is it better for cleave situation to stack echoing blades or shrouded suffocation if i have to choose ?

[tribal marlin]

What do you think of Minor Protocol for m+ ?

[glossy kestrel]

if you are cleaving more than once per 2min to sync with vanish, then EB is btter

[tribal marlin]

as like a 3rd essence ?

[willow prairie]

Oh so in m+ EB is better

[glossy kestrel]

but if you can stealth, i.e. between packs in m+, then SS is great so long as mobs live for the 18 sec and not a whole lot longer

[willow prairie]

yeah, in high keys they do live longer i guess

[glossy kestrel]

EB gives about 4% more damage per trait in continuous cleave, if you look at your details

[noble vale]

right now i play 3 EB 2 SS 1 UT, i sometimes switch the UT piece for an EB TTK but its way lower ilvl

[vital haven]

from what i understand only one ss is needed

[noble vale]

garrotes gonna be your top dmg, deff more than 1

[tribal marlin]

3xSS is pretty good but it start to struggle with fight duration in very high fortified key

[willow prairie]

So if i only have two azerith traits left, because im using DDx3 and one nothing personal, it's not a good idea to go for one EB and one SS, better to go SSx2 ?

[noble vale]

oh is this for ST raid?

[willow prairie]

Hum it's for everything, I dont have the gear to switch between ST and AOE unfortunatly

[noble vale]

you dont really want DD in M+ or NP

[glossy kestrel]

if you're using DD then that assumes you're doing a lot of Mut. if you're doing most ly Mut and not FOK, then EB isn't as good. DD and EB fill very different niches

[willow prairie]

Yeah i got it, it's just that i dont know on what to focus when i try to loot, because ST and aoe trait are very differents

[glossy kestrel]

the three main traits for M+ are EB, TTK, and SS. first SS is better than subsequent SS

i guess SOB isn't awful, but SOB is as bad on bosses as EB is on trash

[bleak spoke]

1ss is definitely more important than any of that

[glossy kestrel]

so, depends on tyran or fort week

[bleak spoke]

At least the first one rather

[tribal marlin]

I'm still pretty sure 3xSS is the best bet up to 16-17 keys

[noble vale]

you can get away with one, but if you look at the top assa rogues in M+ theyre running 2 or 3

[bleak spoke]

Man I think 3 ss might be best in many low target dungeons

[noble vale]

im doing 17-18s and i run 2, i wish i had a 3rd

[bleak spoke]

That’s more gear availability atm

Many raid pieces have ss

[tribal marlin]

well I'm NE tho

it does give SS a lot of more value in m_

[bleak spoke]

And rolling any m+ slot is like 50/50 for ss

[noble vale]

everytime my girl buys my random 445 piece i get SS EB

[bleak spoke]

Man I think night elf assa might be highest throughput full stop

[willow prairie]

Yeah the problem is gear availability for me, if i had to choose it would be easier, it's just that i dont know on what to focus to start gearing at high ilvl

[noble vale]

im offering that service for gold

gonna get that 3rd SS EB piece on tuesday. eZ

[bleak spoke]

I ran 3 ss 2 ttk blightborne a moment ago in kings and it was very large

I was slamming the outlaw rogues on most packs and on the bosses

[tribal marlin]

I removed EB totally for SoB this week xD

[bleak spoke]

Man eb is pretty pad this week

[tribal marlin]

so I can Foking into envenom priority target without blostering xD

[bleak spoke]

Yeh

[noble vale]

my group doesnt have an outlaw

so im always going EB heavy

[bleak spoke]

Idk I was muti on even 4t to redistribute prio

I think with no outlaw you go 2 eb probs

[noble vale]

yeah if i can get a better helm, ill have 3 SS 2 EB 1 TTK

which is my most preffered setup

[bleak spoke]

Like yeah on bolster restealths are real ez

[tribal marlin]

I run 2ss 3eb 1ttk actually

[willow prairie]

how ttk helps in cleave ?

[tribal marlin]

thinking about going 1ss 3eb 2ttk

[bleak spoke]

I can’t seem to get the eb ss helm ever

[noble vale]

just helps you dick down a prio target

[bleak spoke]

Ttk helps on prio

[noble vale]

cause youre generating so muhch CPs

[willow prairie]

ah yeah

[bleak spoke]

I think a sick setup for high keys this week is probably 3tk 2ss eb

Man blood of the enemy just fucks so hard on packs you have vanish for

[tribal marlin]

There are plenty of dung where you can just trade a bit of aoe dmg (by droping env insteed of spamming fok) and help a lot to correctly do the key

[bleak spoke]

Just like 6 ss garrotes into blood

[noble vale]

im still torn on wich essence to use

[tribal marlin]

like Beast in UR

[noble vale]

i tend to change it on dungeons dependancy

[bleak spoke]

I’m sure you outburst udk on like 10t

As nelf

[willow prairie]

how many items do you have to change stuff like that

[bleak spoke]

With ss ss ss vanish repeat meld repeat blood and then 3 eb fok

[willow prairie]

feelssobad struggling to get one good piece

[noble vale]

i mean also in high keys youre not palying with people who are mongoing adds and bolstering

[tribal marlin]

well I am NE but I feel like 9xGarrote take soo many globals to setup

[noble vale]

everyone is cleaving even and switching targets

[bleak spoke]

That’s probably 300k dps

[tribal marlin]

in very high density I just do 3garrote 1 rupture, spamming fok

[bleak spoke]

You need to hit a certain haste number for the 5th and 6th garrote most likely

[tribal marlin]

and I use vanish and meld to re apply 3 garrote so I don't have to use rupture

[bleak spoke]

Or you can bridge rupture as 4th global and then van

[noble vale]

yeah i cant do that with my haste, i run 9% haste base

[bleak spoke]

Cuz by the time you meld you have 7 dots rolling and you’re e capped

[tribal marlin]

also I do like to save vanish and shadowmeld to give value to the silence

[bleak spoke]

Cuz as long as you blood as your 11th global you’ll get full value

Yeh that’s definitely the right way to play

But I mean for pure throughput

[shut pasture]

I'm reading this right now and my smol brain can't comprehend it

Send help

[noble vale]

i really like BOTE in KR and ToS and stuff, but running the meme beam is so fun in some places LOL

[bleak spoke]

Yeh I think 3 garrotes memebeam is actually valid on aoe opener

[tribal marlin]

I really have no clue having blood up for 10sec with 10 garrote

feels so strong

[glossy kestrel]

@tribal marlin where do i recognize your name from?

[noble vale]

oh man, like first triple pack in FH

[shut pasture]

Is Assa really that much harder to play

Than outlaw

[noble vale]

i triple garrote to rupture, insta vanish redo that. then meme beam

[tribal marlin]

Shaman King it's and old anime 😄

[glossy kestrel]

shaman king! that's riiiiiiight!

[tribal marlin]

but it's also 9global spent not dealing aoe dmg 😄

[bleak spoke]

i don't think you spend on rupture there toasty

[noble vale]

6 empowered garrotes ticking is massive

[bleak spoke]

like the cps aren't going to go away

[noble vale]

and that beams speed makes up for it real quick

[bleak spoke]

actually

no you're right

cuz EP

you get ep out of that rupture

i'm wrong for sure

mb

[noble vale]

yeah the EP is huge

[tribal marlin]

I dunno man, you know 1 FoK with 10 target up is a damn lot of dmg

[shut pasture]

Do you really have to think about every move as Assa in keys

[noble vale]

even during FOK spam i think many ropgues forget the importance of taht EP

[shut pasture]

Or what's the deal

[bleak spoke]

i mean the dpet of a stealth garrote

is actually nuts

[tribal marlin]

I wouldn't even surprise that with enough crit chance, 1 single FoK on 10targets deal more damage than 1 garrote xD

[willow prairie]

@shut pasture yes madood

[noble vale]

i mean i have 42% crit lol

[bleak spoke]

i think you need more than 10t

i think maybe ~15t for sure

[noble vale]

my stats right meow are, 42% crit 9% hate, 40% mast and 5% vers

[bleak spoke]

the thing is like blood changes it

cuz the 25% amp

[tribal marlin]

I need to do some tests about it for sure

[noble vale]

yeah at that point the dicussion becomes is the 25% increased dmg to 6 empowered garrotes worth more than the quick meme beam

[shut pasture]

@willow prairie how can one play this spec in keys when calling interrupts stuns etc

[bleak spoke]

i mean the dpet of an ss garrote is like 200k or something

[willow prairie]

@shut pasture no smol brain

[bleak spoke]

that's higher than memebeam

[noble vale]

the other erason i actually think meme beam is solid, it lets you run stupid low haste cause the minor gives you haste

[shut pasture]

[bleak spoke]

yeah

the minor on memebeam is actually really strong in dungeons on st

cuz you bridge low haste value on st

[lost tree]

i habe the Feeling i get my raiment back for ss and eb Traits

[noble vale]

yeah with lucid minor, i can blast bosses even with triple EB

hopefully i can get a SS TTK helm cause tahts what i wanna run

[bleak spoke]

yeah jsut went to a dummy with 2 445 ss and 1 420 ss my garrote did 202k damage with 4 crits out of 10 hits

without blood activation

that is many damage

and it's target blind too

that's more than a cast of meme beam with the highest haste in the world

on 1 t

this is with uh, mastery food eaten and no other buffs

imagine bshout monk

and flask and shit

[noble vale]

my group runs 2 DH and me, so they absolutely deep dick the bosses

i guess i run beam cause im the big cleave boy for us

[bleak spoke]

https://i.imgur.com/139gjvv.png man where the shit are my crits

[noble vale]

im gonna do this 18 WCM with blood isntead of beam

[bleak spoke]

wcm might be the worst dungeon to play sin in

well not the worst

[noble vale]

not paddiong on maggots in the corridor 😦

[bleak spoke]

but

man what

[noble vale]

my tanks know routes for restealths, ive never played outlaw lol

[bleak spoke]

just bleeds and then blood spam fok

[noble vale]

all of S2 i was stubborn as well lol

[bleak spoke]

alright that's fair if he's used to playing with restealth rogue it's fine

[shut pasture]

Damn WCM is like really bad

For restealth

[noble vale]

nah just be quick

spam that button lol

[tribal marlin]

thoose 40k garrote tic are sick 😄

[shut pasture]

Right now having played a bit of outlaw

[bleak spoke]

https://i.imgur.com/6QZGwAh.png okay LMAO

[shut pasture]

I dont understand how I even make assa work

[bleak spoke]

that is insane

[shut pasture]

The spec seems so complex

[bleak spoke]

take 50k off the blood cast

[shut pasture]

I cant just grasp the concept

Any helperino?

[bleak spoke]

cuz there was a fourth dummy i hit with it

idk sin in dungeons boils down to having enough bleeds out to have energy regen

and then you convert the energy into foks for aoe or into envenoms for prio

the difficulty is playing the energy clean enough so you never starve and you rarely overcap too hard

[shut pasture]

Like how do you even put out bleeds

Like trash dies almost insta

[bleak spoke]

okay sin is meh for low keys

if something doesn't live garrote duration then you're afk

[shut pasture]

Like not even low

Did a 17 fh today

Trash died so fast

[echo cargo]

if you're doing keys below 10 for Sin and you're not in like, a group with people at 300 iLvl

just spec for bosses

[bleak spoke]

i mean what comp are you playing with

[echo cargo]

cause you'll do 0 damage forever lmao

[bleak spoke]

it matters

are you double outlaw sin

[shut pasture]

Played doublerogue spriest pwar

[echo cargo]

Outlul getting nerfed means Sin AoE best AoE 😃

[bleak spoke]

okay your ramp is actually faster than spriest ramp

you open 3 garrote rupture on packs almost always

you want to garrote different targets and you want to rupture the highest health mob with a garrote on it

lets say you play the 9 pack + tide at the start right

you want to do something like g g g r, fok to 5 and then rupture one of the dogs because they do the most tank dam

[willow prairie]

Oh and an other thing guys, when you engage a pack, you put your 3grarrote rupture, then how do you refresh garrote to always have them running, like you cant refresh them all at the same moment when they are about to end

[bleak spoke]

and then you probably vanish and garrote more stuff

and then you probably press vendetta on the hgihest hp enforcer, which should have an empowered garrote and rupture on him

[shut pasture]

Is vanish 2.5 min cd on assa as well

[bleak spoke]

then you toxic blade it and spam foks into envenoms on him

all vanish are 2 minute

[noble vale]

you dont garrote a pack unless its empowered

[bleak spoke]

are you okay

[noble vale]

not worth the global

[shut pasture]

Well 2 min

[noble vale]

only the first 3 opening ones

[shut pasture]

It seems like vanish is not to be used lightly as assa

[bleak spoke]

yeah don't ever garrote anything with non stealth garrote unless you're ST or 2t

[shut pasture]

I used to use it as my get out of jail free card

[bleak spoke]

though in 3t i think it's worth too kinda

[fast barn]

Got a question: Got clockwerk re-sharpener with crit increase every 3sec and deployable vibro enhancer with vers increase every 3sec. later trinket sims 650 dps higher, however do I really wanna lose the crit? got lustrous golden plumage as 2nd trinket and blightborn infusion..which is not very reliant with about 20% proc rate

[noble vale]

yeah sorry i should have said that, ST always regarrote

[bleak spoke]

nah vanish is a dps cd for sin

[willow prairie]

Oh what rly ? so i open with garrote3x and rupture on main target, then what do i re-apply when garrote ends ? rupture on multi target ?

[bleak spoke]

you're not trying to ever use it defensively in full

[shut pasture]

Is major Lucid or Beam for keys?

[bleak spoke]

you only ever want to vanish if it's actually going to wipe you if you don't or if you can get 3 ss garrotes out after

or full duration empowered garrotes on bosses

etc

[shut pasture]

What if I want to vanish a mechanic like in Kings Rest

The spit

[noble vale]

yeah vanish on a high fort key is amazing

[bleak spoke]

you shouldn't vanish the spit that doesn't q before the winds

[noble vale]

a full set of 6 empowered garrotes fully ticking off

[bleak spoke]

cuz it'll just recast on someone else

[shut pasture]

Okay basically can you say

[noble vale]

only pre emptive cloak the spit

[bleak spoke]

you always cloak first spit

[shut pasture]

If outlaw is 1 in difficulty

And 10 is feral

Where is assa

[bleak spoke]

outlaw in keys is like 7 or 8, assa's probably 10 if played at highest levels

[noble vale]

its way more fun cause its more involved. multi dotting 3-4 targets and shit

[bleak spoke]

outlaw has the most ST control options out of any spec it's hard

[noble vale]

last season i did a 23 as assa, its all doable

[shut pasture]

I mean is it gonna be hard to control rotation+call shit

Because when I call on outlaw my damage doesn't suffer

[noble vale]

nah the rotation becomes pretty 2nd nature

[bleak spoke]

like in high keys like 23-25s last season the rotation for outlaw is literally 0% of the difficulty

[noble vale]

just need a good setup for tracking your blleeds

[bleak spoke]

well, i guess flurry conservation can be considered rotation

[willow prairie]

@noble vale if i dont reapply garrote when it ends, should i put rupture on the 3 ennemies that are still alive to keep dot on something ?

[noble vale]

not enough bleeds = not enough energy = youre fucked

[bleak spoke]

but like

it's being able to control certain mobs

or more than one mob that's hard to control

[noble vale]

yeah rupture is the one you reapply, and always want 3-4 of them out

[bleak spoke]

i.e. 2 assassins in motherlode

[shut pasture]

The beam essence should be good right?

For major

[noble vale]

but also always keep in mind how much of the rupture will be effective

if a mob is at 20%, just envenom it instead

[bleak spoke]

for sin it's doing pure throughput on packs and being able to prio properly

like with outlaw you spam tab target on a week like this but with sin you need to know which mobs "deserve" the bigger bleeds from your cds, which ones to pick out of a group etc

[noble vale]

^^ yeah i guesa a good way to put it is youll need more dungeon knowledge

[willow prairie]

@noble vale So i open from stealt, garrote3x and rupture only main target, then fok into rupture on main, and when the 3 garrote end, i put rupture on them instead

[noble vale]

like always silence garroting the caszters in packs and stuff is huge

[bleak spoke]

rogue on a whole requires the most dungeon knowledge out of any spec

most good rogues know more about dungeons than most tanks

than most good tanks*

[shut pasture]

I'm a tank as well as a rogue

Can you answer about the essences though

[noble vale]

@willow prairie yup tahts a good way to look at it, replace your 3 garrotes with 3 ruptures. 3-4 bleeds going will give you amazing energy regen

[shut pasture]

I wanna know if I have to farm out dailies

Or just loot my weekly cache

[fast barn]

do I want a 2nd vers trinket or do I rather have a crit and a vers? 2 vers sims higher, but is 700dps more even that reliable?

[bleak spoke]

like for example, i can tell you roughly how much relative damage to tanks and damage to party every single mob in every dungeon does etc

[tribal marlin]

you need both

[noble vale]

gonna do this WCM and report back with the meters to see how BOME did

[tribal marlin]

Minor lucid and major beam (I assume you wont farm rank 3 bote)

[willow prairie]

@noble vale and only refresh garrote on main target then ?

[bleak spoke]

yeh definitely play some EB in waycrest though

[noble vale]

@willow prairie on trash no need to refresh garrote, but like a boss or 2T cleave refresh the garrote

[bleak spoke]

i was watching seli play a waycrest last season and he actually smushed the dungeon solo basically

[noble vale]

the rule is 304 bleeds out at all times

[bleak spoke]

idr if it was 24 or 25 but they timed top right with like 3 or 4 minutes to spare

with him doing highest damage + highest prio lmao

[willow prairie]

@noble vale Ok thanks a lot

[faint sleet]

If the target will live for the full rupture why wouldn’t you rupture over envenom though?

[bleak spoke]

i immediately tried to play sin in a 23 after seeing that and we limped through it with a triple rogue comp with like 2 wipes and timed it by like less than 20 seconds or osmething lmao

https://i.imgur.com/g41TcoY.png yep lol

ignore traits they were snapshotted from logging after raiding

i did 2/2/2 i think l0l

also that was literally timed by 1 second wtf

[shut pasture]

Those warrior traits are actually disgusting

Double scheme

[bleak spoke]

man like suipie might be one of the best tanks in na i'm sure he had a reason to run that

[shut pasture]

I mean disgusting in a good way

[bleak spoke]

oh okay

[shut pasture]

So much haste

[bleak spoke]

it sucks for dps so i assumed it was niche haha

for dps roles*

[shut pasture]

Haste is bis for prot

Both surv and dmg

[tribal marlin]

On 10 target 1 single FoK can do 200k dmg

[crisp hollow]

as in crit for aoe/haste st etc

[bleak spoke]

you shouldn't have more than 11% in dungeons imo

more than that is excessive and not enough gain on ST to justify it over either mastery or crit

probably the only hecking spec on the planet that has anything resembling a hard cap

[shut pasture]

From the pins I assume ilvl>stats generally?

[bleak spoke]

no way

crit >>> mastery >> verse >>> agi >>> haste or something to that extent lmao

in dungeons

in raid sim yourself

[shut pasture]

Huh so mastery is actually nice

[bleak spoke]

st weights are weird

[shut pasture]

I'm not gonna raid rogu

Just keys

[bleak spoke]

yeah mastery affects literally all your damage except fok

[shut pasture]

I'll have to use my big thonkers to learn assa

[bleak spoke]

fok scales on crit and verse

[shut pasture]

Learning outlaw was so easy

[bleak spoke]

getting to 85% on outlaw is incredibly easy

the skill ceiling is meteoric

[shut pasture]

I'll prolly have to go Assa next reset and it's sad

[bleak spoke]

like i have some of the highest keys last season but i can easy say i don't compare in any category to some rogues i've played with

nah outlaw will still be good

[shut pasture]

Worse than assa though, no?

[bleak spoke]

hard to say

they do different things

[shut pasture]

15% damage is a yikers

[bleak spoke]

like the things only outlaw rogues can do

only outlaw rogues can do

[shut pasture]

Can dagger drop for outlaw?

Or just sin

[bleak spoke]

just sin spec

or sub spec

[shut pasture]

Bruh moment

[bleak spoke]

there's no difference

[shut pasture]

I did like 3 toldagors

For dagger

[bleak spoke]

with the wrong

[shut pasture]

In outlaw loot

[bleak spoke]

nooooo man

[shut pasture]

Got a 450 belt though

Quite nice

[bleak spoke]

yeah the tol belt has many crit

[shut pasture]

How garbo are my azerites

For assa

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/soulflayer/шадоустрайк

[old knot]

My backup assassination azerite setup is 2xSS, 2xTTK, 1xBBI, 1xRNGizmo. I'm guessing it's pretty hot garbage?

Since I've been reading that people tend to default on 2xSS, 2xEB, 2xTTK

[bleak spoke]

i know the shoulders are fine alavisto

those are SS EB

[old knot]

Also, does dungeonslice sim work decently for assassination? Or should I be running 6t 40sec-1min and standard patchwerk sims?

[shut pasture]

Ok thanks @bleak spoke probably will have a lot more questions in the coming weeks

[fast barn]

Hey guys could I ask you a quick question please?

[bleak spoke]

dungeon slice is from last i heard pretty meh for sin

[fast barn]

I got 2 on-use trinkets. 1 with crit increase every 3 sec, 1 with vers every 3 sec. which one do I prefer for m+?

[bleak spoke]

crit

man what are those trinkets

[fast barn]

even though it sims worse?

[bleak spoke]

link the sims

idk

that doesn't sound like any trinkets i know of O>o

[fast barn]

Clockwork Re-Sharpener and Deployable Vibro Enhancer

[bleak spoke]

man what

also double on use is not terrible for sin dungeons

[fast barn]

I got golden plumage as my 2nd trinket already so I just need one of those...but with blightborn infusion procing on 20% only I'm considering the crit trinket over the vers...tho vers sims higher

need dat crit...but sim says otherwise. that's my problem

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/e6gjo8R3WQ5oGituWQ3nyj

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/a6cXvAaNNJTNCwfaYZapi2

[noble vale]

50.9k overall in the 16 WCM

not bad

feel like the meme beam is too good in there to not run though

[steel jetty]

meme beam, bolstering, pick 1 lol

[noble vale]

its really not that much of an issue on a high key lol

things dont die in the beam

its just a filler after the 3 ggarotte fomr opener and rupture

[steel jetty]

at the end of the day with bolstering its pad 99% of the time, people are specifically holding off of aoe typically

and beam just makes them do that more

which in some cases is a ST loss, see: outlaw

[noble vale]

people must play with alot of mongos

not hard to prio targets down on a fort week

[steel jetty]

i mean meme beam is the definition of mongo

[noble vale]

not really, one in the group is solid even 2 on fort weeks

[steel jetty]

i guess it really depends on comp

[noble vale]

yeah i run zero outlaws

2 DH 1 rogue

[bleak spoke]

Double dh is so tanky

And two darknesses is sick for so many dungeons probs

[bleak spoke]

Undulating :vomit:

[noble vale]

like usually in WCM beam is 6-7k dps. comapred to the 1.7k from BOME + dps gained from the FOK spam during it

have to unfortunately

445 UT piece or 420

[bleak spoke]

But yeah I don’t think you do bote without garrote setups

Like big ss small pull dungeons

[noble vale]

of course always with empowered garrote ahaha

[bleak spoke]

Like temple and kings

I think you just memebeam probs

[noble vale]

yeah i agree with taht

[bleak spoke]

In big aoe dungeons

[noble vale]

Tos and kings for sure BOME

[bleak spoke]

Cuz wtf are you gonna beam in either of those kinda

[noble vale]

even like atal?

[bleak spoke]

Atal too

Yeah

[noble vale]

yeah ahahah

[bleak spoke]

Was literally typing that

Cuz mobs don’t stack except 1 pull

[noble vale]

yeah exactly

[bleak spoke]

Or it’s literally padnificient on shit like saurids

Like with 2 dh you probably can’t even fok

[noble vale]

yeah and these figures are shitty cause my dh buddy LOVES to pad on maggots

[bleak spoke]

Cuz they control eye beam we’ll probably but dance is pure dam

[noble vale]

he saves beam specifically to pad them this dick lolll

[bleak spoke]

To everything

On the bright side Tb burn on the birdie is nuts

Like subtlety prenerf nuts for the window

I think currently in very short prio (20-25s) assa with twists might outdo sub on prio even

[noble vale]

yeah the prio is huge

[bleak spoke]

Funnily enough I don’t think it does much better than outlaw on prio until second tb

Or unless you build for exsang in kings

Btw that’s the big secret I think

Exsang fixes tyran kings

In high keys the pulls can double exsang but not quite 3 tbs

And exsang eats the second raptor on lust and vendetta

[noble vale]

yeah once i get that 3rd SS im gonna run exsang in KR and ToS

[bleak spoke]

You literally have the equivalent of 5 ss garrotes rolling on the second raptor

With giga haste

And vendetta on “4” of them

Cuz you vendetta the king and exsang the king

I think dratnos is actually a genius for that one

[noble vale]

i cant wait to see the rest of the season

[bleak spoke]

Where he went 3ss 1 np blightborne echo last season

Actually the sickest of setups lmao

With blood that would even be nuttier

[noble vale]

yeah the combos were nice to run on tyreanweek

i just ahted having to exp;lain to people why im assa once i got into the high shit lol

[bleak spoke]

Cuz blood lines on third exsang

Then I think you hold vendetta van for next blood cast

And you get this damage profile that literally executes any tyran boss at 3:20

[drifting cloud]

im sure if exsang was worth using somebody would have figured it by now

[noble vale]

it is worth using... when you have triple SS. you can even see some of the rogues that play assa high M+ using it in specifca places

[vagrant tapir]

Exsang is shit

[drifting cloud]

wont you just energy cap the fuck out of yourself

[vagrant tapir]

TB is much better

for many many reasons

[drifting cloud]

its probably pretty minor, maybe better in specific places like you said

[noble vale]

yes like i said, only specific dungeons

like tos, KR

[stable pine]

With raid essence - how do you use it?

[sudden ocean]

Pins

[noble vale]

on open, then on CD, then with 3rd vendetta

for raid ST fight that is

[vagrant tapir]

whose excited for giga sin m+ viability?

[noble vale]

i never left baby!

havent touched outlaw lol

ive been patiently waiting for this moment LOL

[vagrant tapir]

I legit just swapped some pieces around so I can play the "serious" high key m+ spec

And now I get to SS meme all over again

So much more satisfying

[noble vale]

yeah funny oyu say that cause i had to go outlaw for gorgonzola

and iw as like maybe i try this out in M+ cause it was ok. but then they nerf it

just signs to stick to my assa lol

[prisma carbon]

sims use font on pull, but i should start stacking coral first to have font up for burn on ashvane, right?

[noble vale]

alwaysf ont before pull, taht way you can apply coral with vendetta running

[prisma carbon]

even on a fight like ashvane where group needs a lot of dps for burn?

[noble vale]

im not sure about others, but when we got the first kill in our guild we specificed certain ppl to wait for burn phase with CDS and some on cooldown to pop

[prisma carbon]

my train of thought is i apply coral on pull and i have coral stacks and font in p2

[noble vale]

for us, we had rogues popping everything on CD because our CDs are so short

[prisma carbon]

i see

[noble vale]

its a bit of balance who does shield dmg and who focuses on burn IMO

cause 2nd vendetta comes up right as shes regenning shield

[steep obsidian]

alot of it depends on how many waves you can deal with delaying until after first shield you won't lose a vendetta

i had to delay my first vendetta and clf just because of the way dps worked for us

[noble vale]

yeah the CD rotation will matter on the comp

[steep obsidian]

its something your raid leader should min max tbh

[noble vale]

^^ 100% agreed

[steep obsidian]

like we had a prot paladin who could surive like 23 stacks or something dumb

but most tanks would fall over at 17

[prisma carbon]

im an officer in my guild so im partly responsible in organizing the cds which is why i was asking if its worth doing what i suggested

i just got the font of power after heroic reclear. was using punchcard b4

so wasn't sure

[noble vale]

im gonna be honest with you, i got a 455 yellow card the other day and just as far as quality of life i like to use it over my font LOL

sometimes i get too greedy or dont setup proper for the font, and you might eat something cause youre greedy for taht full buff ahaha

[steep obsidian]

yah

[prisma carbon]

yeah juggling these 2 trinkets seems like a huge hassle lol. my yellow card is 440 so i might just keep using it on ashvane.

[steep obsidian]

i want one for keys because you get plenty of time to charge shit up while tank is runnin around setting up a pull

[noble vale]

ive been trying to use it in keys, but the change to not being able to use it in stealth really fucks me

[steep obsidian]

i have a frigging 400 coral that is in my highest simming set right now

cant get a frigging heroic or mythic one to save me

[noble vale]

the extra prio stat isnt worth it IMO, if i run the chance of losing those 3 empowered garrotes

but when it works perfect, oh god is it noticeable

[steep obsidian]

i watched a few mdi rogues using it pretty well but they were outlaw so yeh

i wonder if the ol nerfs will change much in comps

[noble vale]

the outlaw channel definitely seems to be in a bit of a hoorah lol

i have a 450 inkpod for M+, and i really like the blast card for emmissaries

[steep obsidian]

yeah its handy

i am finding it hard to ditch lurkers gift but mythic i find myself clicking it off sometimes just coz its fucking scary as hell in the dam going out for the last few stacks

getting a decent coral would fix it 100% for me 😛

[noble vale]

yeah im too scared to use that trinket most of the time lol

[steep obsidian]

my healers are really good im just a wuss

the dam that goes out in orgozoa i didnt even consider using it though lol

[noble vale]

yeah we just killed orgozoa, so the last 2 fights of prog i wasnt touching it ahah

and even council now feels iffy lol

next reset im doing sin cleave for gorgonzola, im stoked to do that lol

[steep obsidian]

yeah i might swap to doing that

i think i can get 3 TTK and drop all my dd traits just gotta do some sims

[noble vale]

yeah i was playing with it during prog with 3 EB 2 TTK and 1 SS

i was doing 60-65k consistent

it felt solid

but ive also been wild lucky with random azerite for sin M+ lol

[steep obsidian]

yeah ill hvae to see it was tight on add damage for us too but we were missing a fire mage in the little prog we did

[dull osprey]

what prepotion should I be running? Standard agil or one of the new ones?

[visual quartz]

Unbridled feels nice

[noble vale]

yeah i think unbridaled is the go to for sure on ST raid bosses

in M+ though, i think agi or if its 8 mobs go for the proximity

[lost horizon]

emp prox caps out at 5 targets

beats regular agi at 4+ targets

[noble vale]

is it 5? not sure what im thinking about then for 8 or more enemies

yeah 5, good call; my bad

i dunno why i had 8 on my mind

[bleak spoke]

@noble vale I still think Tb in temple

Cuz the riders are just chunky enough to not get value from 2 Tb but not enough for 2 exsang

I’m playing low keys rn and in a 10 temple exsang killed first snake boss before the conduction lmao

Legit it died before the vanish garrote ran out on it

[noble vale]

itt is fort

those two dungeons i think are only har don tyran weeks

[strange python]

so, quick question, but should I be casting garrote or toxic blade at 4cp, even if they can cause an overcap with Seal Fate?

[quasi pewter]

yes you can even cast tb at 5 cp

and you cant overcap with garrote at 4

[bleak spoke]

@rose perch have you seen ruin’s assa build

He plays crimson tempest with the star redistribution trinket

Stat

[strange python]

@quasi pewter oh, garrote can't proc seal fate?

[quasi pewter]

no it doesnt do initial damage

[bleak spoke]

And like every 1 and a half packs it procs and sustains 100-150k

[strange python]

ah, so just toxic blade on cd even at 5cp. does this apply to garrote as well, or only 4cp and lower?

[quasi pewter]

you have 5,4 seconds to garrote so it shouldnt really happen

with tb you want it literally on cooldown so it can happen ur at 5cp and pooling

with garrote there is no reason to overcap with it

[rose perch]

@bleak spoke ooo cool i haven't

[strange python]

ah, okay, so tb on cd, garrote at 4cp and lower.

[quasi pewter]

yea

[strange python]

thanks. 😄

[strange python]

Accepting Outlaws refugees?

[rigid mango]

Sup.

[dense cedar]

What's Outlaw? @strange python

[placid dawn]

Outlul

[polar dagger]

just got razor coral. any tips on how to use it in m+?

new to this trinket

[limpid topaz]

1 question: 5 combo points and toxic blade off cooldown - use envenom -> toxic blade or toxic blade -> envnenom(waste 1 -2 cp´s)

[white basalt]

Toxcid blade first

Dont worry about overcapping with TB

[limpid topaz]

ok, sometimes i think , damn again 2 cp´s gone 😃

[white basalt]

Plus u want the envenom inside the TV window

Tb

[tropic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/526851999501778964/609624964513005570/d31eeab9ff0a106a4c74d7eb1bff0826.png

[real bay]

alt f4

wtf

great game

[umbral fiber]

terrible, doesn't have socket

[polar dagger]

any tips?

for razor coral in m+

[frank escarp]

Nice cursed image

[heavy trail]

got a socketed coral also only 400 il evel but good for me LOL. Some guy whispered me hey bro, do you need that trinket, I heard its horrible but I have bad ones, can you just give it to me ?

[placid mulch]

I’m actually let down that a 455 coral only gives you 120 crit per stack

[rigid mango]

Yeah, it really sucks.

[placid mulch]

I’m actually more sad there isn’t some BS benthic trinket that sims 10% higher at 30 less ilvl

[rigid mango]

Yeah, really shitty tier for trinkets imo

[placid mulch]

It’s like they’re trying to push people to raid just for trinkets

[rigid mango]

Seems like a decent reason enough

raid trinkets > spamming m+ trinkets

[strange python]

idk man, if you got a team you are working towards getting your boys the bis- Knowing what dungeons has prior and ppl helping shifting loot specc

[cobalt gyro]

this tier really fucking sucks if you're not raiding, though

because raid loot is really good

[placid mulch]

I wanna know how much higher a 415 sims than a 455 spyglass with socket

415 coral*

[mystic talon]

Why cant u do heroic for trinkets?

[placid mulch]

Certainly can. I was just looking at hero damage and the spyglass sim stops at 440 and 415 coral still ahead

[rigid mango]

just go to gear compare

[mystic talon]

Not a problem if you want to have optimal gear, its like not farming benthic because u only raid and dont do world content xd

[desert kelp]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QB8hY3jRVbpPLfvN could anyone check these logs Radiance -> Queen's court on character "Vèndètà" ? Feel as if my output is absolute trash for the spec but I have no idea where to improve

[heavy trail]

is there a big difference on using coral in M+ versus on raids. Just use the crit thing when stuff is going to die or when you will want burst ? it says it's good on aoe also... so just trying to figure out how to work it in 😃

coral is actually kinda fun to use

[daring basalt]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mcRpJPWkixCyT9j2DBUPY9

[sharp thicket]

Is the guilde on ravenholdt relevant? I see no mention of ttk there for example, which I see people talk about. Just so i dont relearn sin wrong

[rigid mango]

The guide is somewhat relevant but not entirely

[sharp thicket]

But to get started, SS, DD, 1 NP, some ttk is what i should look for? And EB with SSfor for aoe?

[rigid mango]

No DD, no NP

for m+, that is.

[sharp thicket]

Yeye

[rigid mango]

Any mix of eb/ss/ttk, pref 2/2/2 or 3 ttk 2 eb 1 ss

[sharp thicket]

Just looking over potential gear If a reroll is needed on wednesday

[rigid mango]

If you're rerolling from outlaw, I'd just not

[patent elk]

just got to checking what kind of setup i can get for sin m+ and 2x ttk 2x eb 1x np

[rigid mango]

There should be a 6th trait in there too.

[patent elk]

+1x ss

[rigid mango]

That's fine for tyr weeks I suppose

Get rid of the NP if you can, though

I wouldn't swap to sin from outlaw 😄

And I probably will keep playing outlaw for the time being until my gear is minmaxed

[sharp thicket]

Ye, havent seen a dagger yet this season, and have good outlaw weps. Im just checking if i even have soemthign close to relevant sin traits if that becomes the case

[rigid mango]

I think outlaw is still stronger anyways

Unless sin is played near perfectly and is geared really well

[placid mulch]

Outlaw will still be padding their way to the top and the best most sin players can do is kill ‘priority’ targets

[rigid mango]

Outlaw has insanely good prio so

[sharp thicket]

I used to play it "perfectly", jsut been outlaw last 2 seasons.

[placid mulch]

Not best ‘most’

[rigid mango]

There's very few who play sin perfectly

😄

[placid mulch]

It’s hard to be patient enough to wait for energy pooling

Smash face against buttons

[rigid mango]

Pooling in m+

[patent elk]

Iris major + lucid minor good to go before getting BotE r3 ?

[rigid mango]

Yep

THat's more than fine 😄

[sharp thicket]

I know, but for raiding at least. Sin: the sepcc where you could autoattack to 85%, and micromanage like a mofo to get the last 15

[rigid mango]

m+ is much harder than raid

[placid mulch]

I mean more in general

[sharp thicket]

agree

[rigid mango]

Sin has a very low skill floor, and a very high skill ceiling

[placid mulch]

Bleed management, envenom, FOK FOK FOK

[rigid mango]

It's easy to do well, but hard to do really well

[placid mulch]

Sounds easy

[rigid mango]

Yeah dude, you got it

that's sin for you

[placid mulch]

Physically difficult

[rigid mango]

can u go back to #outlaw now ty

and stop trolling this channel 😄

[placid mulch]

I’ve been playing both tbf

[rigid mango]

So why say that's all sin is, since it's very wrong if played correctly

[sharp thicket]

I just asked IN CASE a reroll, if the resources were relevant. Think imma look for daggers just in case though

[rigid mango]

There's a lot more micro managing and minmaxing to be done as sin in m+

Sure, dagger is prio 1

I suppose azerite is on similar levels

[placid mulch]

Yeah not hit blade flurry and spam 2 buttons

[rigid mango]

[patent elk]

Stacking crit way to go ? Atleast when checking @marble hemlock gear :D

[rigid mango]

pls ur just spamming bait comments

Yes

Crit > mastery if running ttks/vers if not

[sharp thicket]

Woa, more toxic here than one tab down

[rigid mango]

I mean I'm just sick of the bait comments from outlaw rerollers

[shy axle]

just don`t get triggered

[desert kelp]

a lot of toxic blade rolling around here

[dense cedar]

Got a 430 Crit/Haste ring

[rigid mango]

It's tiring after a while hearing the same arguments in a circle.

Each to their own, though

[placid mulch]

Zine I’m agreeing with you my dude

[rigid mango]

You're dumming down both specs

Both have a lot more than just what you're saying.

But I'm also just not here to have ANOTHER argument about the two specs and their relative comparison

[vagrant tapir]

You're trolling through the lens of implied hyper accessibility

It's a common meme people do

[dense cedar]

Memes banned while I'm around

[vagrant tapir]

^

nvm, that meme has been redacted

[dense cedar]

I know the true danger of memeing

[solid nova]

Take it somewhere else

[vagrant tapir]

You will now need to stop overestimating the ease of rogue specs

As that meme has been banned

Which you can see above

[dense cedar]

I saw the other day someone mentioned that the pufferfish damage is split amoungst targets, is that true?

[rigid mango]

It's aoe damage

I believe it doesn't split(?)

[solid nova]

It does split

[rigid mango]

It splits?

Fuck that then.,

[solid nova]

Raz told me so

I've not rolled them myself

[rigid mango]

I've got them

Since I'm too lazy to roll for the others

They're doing very similar numbers anyways

[dense cedar]

Ok

[noble vale]

except the sim doesnt accounty for boss movement

[dense cedar]

So does that make Puffer better for St over Aoe?

[noble vale]

nothing like watching a puffer go down, anddddd boss getting moved

[rigid mango]

It's equal to frost on ST

[solid nova]

No Frost ones are better

Because if you move

[noble vale]

nowhere near equal for ST

[solid nova]

The puffer damage is wasted

[dense cedar]

ye

[rigid mango]

wdym nowhere equal

[noble vale]

the frost is way better cause its direct damage

[rigid mango]

They're like the same damage if the boss doesn't move

[dense cedar]

so puffer for aoe only minor then?

[rigid mango]

and fucks up the puffer

[noble vale]

because bosses in mythic dont just stand in one place like a patchwork sim :D:D

[solid nova]

In a sandbox environment sure

[dense cedar]

i only have puffer with socket

gonna use that till frost then

[rigid mango]

Idk my puffer ones are doing very close to frost damage ones

[noble vale]

you have both 425 socketed?

[rigid mango]

I've not got the frost ones

[noble vale]

so how can you say they perform similarly?

[rigid mango]

but I know how much damage they normally do % wise

Beacuse I can also look at logs

[noble vale]

i have both at 425 socket

its nowehre near close when you actually put it in place

[rigid mango]

Seems to be doing very similar numbers when I compare others logs and my own

[noble vale]

gotta look at actual logs

[rigid mango]

?

[sullen pagoda]

i used puffer ones only 1st week

[rigid mango]

I'd swap if I could

[noble vale]

you can litearlly watch the puffer come down and things get moved out of them

[rigid mango]

But the diff is very minor and wont impact whether we kill a boss or dont

99% of the time

[dense cedar]

So Frost > Puffer in both ST and cleave Aoe then?

[rigid mango]

Frost is just better

[sullen pagoda]

https://i.imgur.com/I2mkgZ1.png this made me go back to rerolling

[dense cedar]

accounting for light movement

[sullen pagoda]

[rigid mango]

On what boss

[sullen pagoda]

1st

[dense cedar]

[rigid mango]

the fuck

[noble vale]

and thats a low movement boss as far as the boss moving

[rigid mango]

How did it even go that low

[noble vale]

think queens courts or ashvane

[solid nova]

Well how many times did that proc lol

[sullen pagoda]

idk might have been unlucky

4 procs

in 3.5min

[rigid mango]

Yeah like

I don't think that's on the puffer effect being bad

just RNG being bad

[sullen pagoda]

yea probably just rng

[rigid mango]

Like

When I compare R1 log of ashvcane

[sullen pagoda]

im too lucky with those effects anyway got like every dps effect with socket

[rigid mango]

(high movement)

[sullen pagoda]

got both belts on 420 lulw

[rigid mango]

The diff is .06%

between my wrists and ori's

And that's 420 puffer vs 425 frost

so

[sullen pagoda]

yea its probably just really unlucky pull

[rigid mango]

Aye no kidding

[vague acorn]

Hey guys, I'm fairly new to rogue in general and I'm thinking about switching to sins because of outlaw nerfs. What is the go-to traits and stats? (m+)

[rigid mango]

Just stick to outlaw 😄

Outlaw is easier to gear, play, and is still better

[vague acorn]

Not on st tho

[rigid mango]

Raid wise? No

[vague acorn]

M+

[rigid mango]

but if you're asking this question you're not top 50 guild

nah, outlaw does more ST than sin

in m+

Outlaw still takes 5 ST traits, sin takes 4

They still do +- same damage on bosses

And if theres EVER any cleave, they out dps hard

First boss UR, etc

2nd too, if you play around it

[strange python]

Why do I always do shit ST dps on M+

[rigid mango]

Sin's ST in m+ is much more punishing

since you drop all haste

[sullen pagoda]

you go for too many aoe traits? 🤔

[rigid mango]

🤔

Playing with 5% haste is very punishing

if played poorly

[strange python]

I'm not Sin

[rigid mango]

Then you're in the wrong channel

[strange python]

Nah I was referring to your comment but yeah, not the best place to talk about it

[vague acorn]

I mean I've been watching a lot of sins rogue in m+(20+ keys) and they do pretty much the same if not more sometimes overall dmg then the outlaw rogue, and since the nerfs are Inc i just don't see how outlaw still can be waay better then sins.. But I'm new to rogue so what do I know I guess haha @rigid mango

[strange python]

20+ keys are not your regular keys

Don't compare yourself to those players

[rigid mango]

Sin can do more damage than outlaw if played so

Outlaw brings an insane amount of utility though

That's the reason they're stronger, not just raw damage

Sin can focus on prio target damage, but outlaw still has insanely good prio damage

[sullen pagoda]

yeah the thing i like the most about outlaw for m+ instead of sin is having vanish as utility

[noble vale]

you also need horseshoes up your ass up for proper assa traits from random pulls

[rigid mango]

Dude, gouge.

[sullen pagoda]

yeye gouge is insane

[rigid mango]

Gouge is such an insanely good ability

And prey ona rotational stun?

[sullen pagoda]

but vanish can fuck over so many targeted spells

love it

[rigid mango]

idd

There's a lot of shit you can do with outlaws utilkity

[vague acorn]

Yeah alright I hear you

[rigid mango]

And yeah

Sin is a pain in the ass to gear

[vague acorn]

How so?

For the traits or?

[bronze kelp]

Yep

[dense blaze]

Gouge should be baseline across all specs and no one will ever convince me otherwise

[bronze kelp]

Getting the right pieces is frustrating on gambling

[wild ledge]

Need shrouded suffocation and echoing blades for big aoe

[noble vale]

im at 42% crit, 8% haste, 41% mast and 5% vers, and im pretty happy with my azerite. stoked to do a comparison key next week

[rigid mango]

I'm at similar stats just more mastery and less haste

[noble vale]

yeah if i can drop more i will

[rigid mango]

0 haste apart from neck

[sullen pagoda]

if u want to play optimal sin in m+ u need a ton of azerites for different affixes and what kind of dmg u need

[bronze kelp]

Lucky zine

[rigid mango]

wdym lucky my sin set is like

8 ilvls lower than outlaw one

420 azerite

[sullen pagoda]

ye my outlaw is 440 in m+ gear

[rigid mango]

Mine's near that anyways

[simple meteor]

same pretty much

[bronze kelp]

But zero haste 😉

[rigid mango]

but sin is like

[noble vale]

both my isn and outlaw are 439 looooool

[rigid mango]

just under 430

Fuck that.

[bronze kelp]

I'm still. Locked on so many slots due to sockets on s2 gear 😭

[noble vale]

8 sockets in sin gear. O DADDY

[rigid mango]

I just need radiance shoulders next week, some RNG on otehr pieces

and we gucci

[noble vale]

got 2 solid 445 pieces in a row on random roll

[simple meteor]

fuck solid just give us gorak shoulders

already

[noble vale]

i got SS EB shoulders, i can live with it

[rigid mango]

I got tent laced and swirl sands helm

I can't be mad

but my m+ set is scuffed

[noble vale]

yeah i got opposite, my ST set is GARBAGGGGGIO

2 x 420 azerite and engi helm

kill me

[rigid mango]

I've got full 445 with like

nutty pieces ngl

dd swirl op - dd np whirl(?) - ttk loyal op

[noble vale]

ill be honest though im more glad i got good M+ pieces cause i do way more of that lol

plus next week im totally doing assa on gorgonzola lol

[rigid mango]

Yeah either we kill orgo on sunday

[sullen pagoda]

ye idk what id play next week

[rigid mango]

or I'm playing sin from now on

[noble vale]

its way more fun man

[sullen pagoda]

im either going sin get benched or try and make outlaw viable but i doubt

[noble vale]

i was fucking around with sin cleave on prog, and i was doing a solid 60-65k

as outlaw i couldnt stand it. might as well be at the dummies

[mighty elm]

imagine assa channel was outlaw when i went to bed 😦 it still is outlul

[vague acorn]

Toasty are you rocking sin in m+?

[noble vale]

yessir i always have

[rigid mango]

I was sin until tuesday

[noble vale]

havent gone outlaw ever lol

[rigid mango]

in m+