assassination

[solid nova]

Big gamer

[arctic walrus]

full 445s and 65

[shell lodge]

[hazy crater]

445 coral as well

[arctic walrus]

Hit 63 last night but so much for that, no helm to upgrade

me 65 by tuesday quote me on that

[scarlet sequoia]

65 neck sims

[shell lodge]

one guy in my guild i guees have coral 450 with socket..

[arctic walrus]

our tank rolled a 455 with avoidance

[cobalt pelican]

61 neckers represent

[shell lodge]

gotta spam raids on each diff for ap i guees

[cobalt pelican]

you only get ap for one difficulty

[shell lodge]

nani ?

[cobalt pelican]

just do islands till you want to use the heart of azeroth to form a noose

[shy dust]

That’s like after 3 islands.

[shell lodge]

yeet. Or try and find group for other raids aswell i guees.

[real bay]

noose of azeroth

[cobalt pelican]

all the other raids have like pretty bad ap

it's probably worth doing if you can join a group and just blast them but it's like 300 per boss

[shell lodge]

eh so spam islands it is then.

[scarlet sequoia]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qai8DJkpN2ssLLwGLbnJQ8 wtb 65 neck 😭

[strange python]

what is it, 400ap/island?

[cobalt pelican]

450 for mythic

[shell lodge]

how much is it for pvp ?

[strange python]

2700ap / hour then approx.

the tedious grind ;D

[real bay]

just farm 100hours

ez

and fun

[arctic walrus]

@scarlet sequoia you can get an even higher number if you make your azerite 450 and up your neck ilvl as well

[lone junco]

so MA 3DD is still a thing.

neat

[cobalt pelican]

imogen simming 10k below some guy who just did islands for 3 weeks straight

[weak vine]

Gorak tul gimme your mantle pls

[dull osprey]

with 3xDD, DD is 13-15% of my damage

[scarlet sequoia]

@arctic walrus i did make azerite 450, i enabled the traits as you can see 😃 not the neck ilvl tho idk how to

[median sand]

Are you guys using any helpful opener macros? I’ve definitely botched a few...

[jolly comet]

im so scared to leave SS and subt behind. is the MA rotation a lot harder than subt/ss?

[nimble tartan]

I sin 43k 😃

[arctic walrus]

Oh I'm blind

You'd have to add it in a gear compare

[winter moss]

how good is not a single point vers for m+

[jolly comet]

jensen ackles approves

[neon sedge]

When is a good time to use pocket size on opener.

I assume not in vendetta window.

[cobalt pelican]

6.273 seconds but only if your shadow dance has sicknasty moves

[shy dust]

We prefer it to be called Shadow Yeet

[topaz crow]

@neon sedge Kinda depends on when lust is like if we lust on opener I'll utilize my entire opener plus vendetta window burn all my energy then use the blast then spend all energy and use lucid dreams. If not lusting on opener then vendetta use lucid after lucid is down and ur out of energy id use the blast. Generall idea is if you dont have anything else TO be doing cuz ur energy starved use it.

[molten mirage]

what is the best pre pot for M+ as assassination?

[topaz crow]

agi for trash crit for ST

[neon sedge]

Thanks frosty ☃️

[harsh sphinx]

Unbridled fury. Crit was nerfed

[topaz crow]

was it really?!?!

[molten mirage]

yeah i was gonna say iv been using unbrridled

for ST

in raid

i wondered if it was any good in m+

[harsh sphinx]

Yes. Pretty much every class uses unbridled

[molten mirage]

so i could just make the same pre pots accross the board

[topaz crow]

well rip to the 80 i got in my bag

[molten mirage]

lol i feelz i made a bunch right before the nerf a few weeks ago

i sold some on AH but just saved rest

[jolly comet]

should i be using Unbridled for M+ packs?

[real bay]

agi

[molten grove]

hey, ive been playing assa for a little bit now but i cant seem to get the numbers that the other rogue in my guild can pump out, any tips? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Tpj6PLCK7V3Ndkvh#fight=1&type=damage-done

Danrinrogue is me btw

[normal shale]

Any top down tips for staying competitive in Za'qul. Very sad to go from top DPS in Court to almost lower middle of the pack on Za'qul.

Should I hold first Vendetta for vulnerability, or still use it on opener like normal.

[ripe bramble]

Should specify is heroic or mythic

if*

[dense cedar]

@molten grove Do you have CLF r3?

[arctic walrus]

Zaqul is not a fight that you will top the meters in, at least overall

Ranged will have an advantage sniping add damage

[normal shale]

Heroic sorry.

[molten grove]

No i dont

Will have next week

[dense cedar]

That'll be an upgrade at least

[molten grove]

Yup

Isnt going to give me 10k dps increase though

So idk

[arctic walrus]

No food no flask no 2nd pot, you afked for 10 seconds during lust

you didn't vanish, you popped lucid early on pull, you didn't arcane torrent

[dense cedar]

oh hey

there's literally no vanish what

[placid root]

Vanjsh resets master assasin

[dense cedar]

@molten grove Vanish is a dps cooldown

[molten grove]

Ye figured that out, made loads of mistakes in that fight, apart from the obvious stuff like not using vanish and popping lucid early, i wanted to know if maybe im doing anything else wrong rotation wise maybe

[arctic walrus]

You used coral once 2 minutes into the fight, meaning it was literally worthless outside of a 7k hit

[molten grove]

Ye another stupid mistake not using coral 😑

[tropic ocean]

@vestal wren

https://prnt.sc/oqmob0

[normal shale]

I knew on Heroic Za'qul I wouldn't be top damage or anything. Was just wondering if any of you guys had any tips of getting more of an edge. Fight has a lot of vulnerabilities and such, just wonder if I'm utilizing my cool downs right at the right times to capitalize on that.

[tropic ocean]

you don't need to be top dmg in zaqul

do as much st/boss dmg as you can

and you'll do a very valuable job

[vestal wren]

yes

[tropic ocean]

like my best log on zaqul is 51k or smth

which 40k of is boss dmg

if u want to log high u need to pad on adds like a maniac which is non productive for killing the boss

[ripe bramble]

Or get sent down, my best heroic Zakul is 64k

if a couple shadow priests get sent down you won't even be able to pad on adds even if you wanted to

[tropic ocean]

yeah but usually spriest/lock is better downstairs

from a kill perspective

[dense cedar]

How to... get daggers

[lost horizon]

You can actually rank high on Zaq just doing ST

[tropic ocean]

defeat dungeons or bosses that can drop them

[lost horizon]

It's still a shitty fight though

[dense cedar]

i just realised i've had two daggers drops in my pressence this entire patch

like not even for other people

[tropic ocean]

idk man

[dense cedar]

just bad luck

[tropic ocean]

last top 100 in zaqul heroic is 78,6k 😄

79*

[dense cedar]

what's the highest ilvl of a crafted dagger?

[tropic ocean]

its just rng mate

I got 440 from m+ 445 from raid

[dense cedar]

nice

good secondaries on them too or?

[tropic ocean]

okayish

[dense cedar]

wdps is waht matters really anyway

[tropic ocean]

doesnt really matter for my char atm

stats are really close

4.8-4.3 so

[dense cedar]

all my rng has gone into my benthic i guess

tbh if im gonna complain about weapon drops

probs shouldn't have played assassin rogue this xpac lol

[tropic ocean]

i know it sucks some times just farm more

[dense cedar]

trying

[tropic ocean]

took me 2 weeks of farming to get outlaw weap 😄

[dense cedar]

even if i don't drop 'em

im sure i could conivce party to trade 'em over

or jsut get a gearing group for myself

[tropic ocean]

do u play on horde eu?

[dense cedar]

Oce Ally

[tropic ocean]

then I can't help you

[rancid bobcat]

they really need to just like

bring back relics or some shit

arent agi daggers the most restricted weapon type

only drops for rogues

[shy dust]

Yeah only rogues

[polar shale]

only non outlaw rogues

[rancid bobcat]

fuck it just make mut/sub 1h class

tired of this shit

i guess warglaives technically

but they just get access to every other 1h as well

let combat use warglaives

the originals were rogue weapons

[iron slate]

^let me mog them lol. I have them in my bank

[neon sedge]

Does clf benefit from lust

[rigid mango]

Yes

[outer sand]

Any1 here currently working on M ashvane? Do you guys bother with killing bubbles? I'm trying to FoK once and rupture with whatever combo pts I have then just start mut again

[rigid mango]

Rup once with a 2-3 cp rup at most, other than that I just pump boss

[outer sand]

Yep that's what I'm doing to get energy reset to keep pumping boss

Thx

[urban junco]

Mhm. That's a good way about it. We have one rogue that went outlaw and pumped bubbles for us.

Actually got us the kill.

Dude had like 3 mil on bubbles

XD

[gloomy steppe]

If i'm using azshara trinket + coral, azshara is higher priority before vendetta, right?

[deft nymph]

i let our ret pally pump bubbles

and fire mage ignite cleave

just fok them for combo points on boss

[cobalt pelican]

avoid pressing fok

if you really want to press it once to spread poisons you can maybe but even then it's probably a dps loss

[wild stone]

When is fok a dps gain

[rigid mango]

5+ targets ish

Depends on azerite, though

2+ with EB, 5+ with DD, 3+ baseline

It's a greyzone, really. DD damage is a lot and most of the time even though it's an alround dps gain it's very small and you lose boss damage

[wild stone]

Gotcha thanks

We're on ashvane also

[lean coral]

my guild just does cheese shit

double holy priest

ignore 2 bubbles

[wild stone]

How do 2 Holy priests allow to ignore 2 bubbles?

[lean coral]

conflict and strife gives them holy ward

30 sec cd makes a target immune to cc

[wild stone]

Oh briny bubbles. I was thinking the soak ones

[lean coral]

oh naw

we just have 3rd tank handle that

[wild stone]

Yeah

[lean coral]

then we sacrifice a second tank in the last shield phase

[wild stone]

No disc priest?

[lean coral]

naw we do double holy and a holy pal

[wild stone]

Word

[fathom wyvern]

So for a fight like ashvane is inkpod worth using even tho it sims less since you can stack it up alot?

[rigid mango]

Yeah.

It's insane on ashvane

[drifting cloud]

if you push the boss below 30 on 2nd shield maybe not

otherwise its nice

[fathom wyvern]

we dont

then do i replace a 440 plumage or 335 dice with socket for inkpod?

not sure how to sim it

[rigid mango]

Dice

[fading spire]

Sim 8min

[rigid mango]

Dice is very meh now

[fathom wyvern]

not that bad, atleast when you dont have any options xD

[drifting cloud]

dice is good zine

[rigid mango]

Dice is fucking appaling

Get it away from me

[drifting cloud]

before the last apl changes for font

[fathom wyvern]

its good you have good rng

[drifting cloud]

it was simming only like 200 less for me

[rigid mango]

What, dice was simming 200 less than font + coral?

[drifting cloud]

yeah a 440 one

[rigid mango]

Compared to 440's?

430's*

[drifting cloud]

430s yeah

[rigid mango]

Doesn't that say a fuckton though

[drifting cloud]

but then font apl got changed and it somehow went up another 300-400 dps

[rigid mango]

incorrect usage of the trinkets you're wearing

were STILL a 200 dps increase

over that god forsaken trink

Even ebing 10 ilvls higher

I think you've made me think it's even worse

[drifting cloud]

eh 🤷 if I get my hands on a mythic inkpod ill just use it over hc font

all the time

even if it sims 200 less dps or whatever it is

so tired of the double on use

[rigid mango]

Idm the double on use tbh

[cobalt pelican]

i agree that i'd use inkpod if it was within a couple hundie of font+coral 430/445 but

[drifting cloud]

problem is all the mechanics that can fuck with your channel

[cobalt pelican]

i doubt it is

[rigid mango]

I don't think inkpod is bad

[topaz crow]

Who needs a mythic inkpod when u loot a 450 xD

[drifting cloud]

ashvane, orgozoa, queens court all have them

[rigid mango]

but I think dice is fucking baaaaaaad

yeah but like

[cobalt pelican]

in my current gear last time i checked it was like.. 400+

[rigid mango]

look at your timers ryler

[cobalt pelican]

probably closer to 500

[drifting cloud]

I mean I do, thats why I delay it

[rigid mango]

[drifting cloud]

apl for font has become optimized so good

I fear I just play it way worse

[rigid mango]

You're welcome.

[drifting cloud]

[rigid mango]

[cobalt pelican]

ya you'll always underperform sim apl with font+coral unless you're godbrain

it's like outlaw stuff it's really hard to actually play to the apls standards

but when the difference is close to 500 i'm confident i can at least not fuck it up enough for it to be better

besides when i font over the ocean at blackwater maybe

[real bay]

font is just a huge pain sometimes

annoying

[sullen pagoda]

i find it enjoyable

to play

[real bay]

pull is ok midfight pepega

[cobalt pelican]

i find it fine as long as corals not in the mix

cause then timings actually have to be correct

instead of just

'press your font before vend lol moron'

[real bay]

with coral i mean, annoying af

[shut yacht]

Would you guys save residuum for big goraktul's and spymaster (or however the chest is called) or is it worth gambling it instead of going for the 200k? Guess it's just consumer's choince but I want to hear other people too lol

[deft nymph]

not gambling is shit imo

[sullen pagoda]

especially chest u got like 3 good ones

[deft nymph]

you go nna wait half the tier to get a piece of azerite?

[cobalt pelican]

in hindsight i regret gambling chest even thouhg i hit ceph first roll

[sullen pagoda]

ups i wanted to say

[cobalt pelican]

i'd roll shoulders infinitely over saving tho

[sullen pagoda]

not gambling is shit*

[cobalt pelican]

the blackwater chest is just way better than i thought when i did my first roll

[gloomy steppe]

If i'm using azshara trinket + coral, azshara is higher priority before vendetta, right?

[cobalt pelican]

there are people in this chat right now in possession of fastiduous machinations

imagine that..

and ya font > coral but aim to have both up during vendetta by using font early

[real bay]

and members of the blighted tribe

[cobalt pelican]

some even have both

tragic, truely.

[rigid mango]

Sanguine monstrocity

[cobalt pelican]

i rolled sanguine they lasted like

15 whole seconds in my bag

[drifting cloud]

honestly I think it depends on the slot

[deft nymph]

i rolled 445 gore splattered

and 430 gorak tul

[drifting cloud]

id rather save specific for shoulders

gamble helm/chest

[deft nymph]

n2b

[drifting cloud]

but it just depends what you already have mostly imo

[deft nymph]

saving just never seems good to me

it takes so long

i guess if you go hard farming residuum

[drifting cloud]

yeah and when youre only gonna miss shoulders and you wont get them after 3-4 gambles

[deft nymph]

you can do like...7 weeks?

[cobalt pelican]

it's like 50% chance you get goraks in 4 rolls or something right

is that how math works

[drifting cloud]

it would have been the same as if you saved

[cobalt pelican]

51.77?

like 60% with 5 rolls which is what you'd probably get if you weren't saving specific

[drifting cloud]

and since I wanna end the tier with them, id rather bring that pointless amount of tr into next tier than still be gambling 2 weeks before new raid

[cobalt pelican]

even if i never got goraks after 5 rolls at 60% odds to get them i'd still rather gamble at the chance of having them for meaningful prog weeks

guess it really depends where you expect to be in x weeks

and that varies a lot guild to guild

[drifting cloud]

well like I said I think its not some best scenario that applies to everyone

[deft nymph]

oh yeah i did roll a 430 blighted tribe

oof

need to go ahead and scrap that

[drifting cloud]

I have radiance shoulders, hell even 435 goraks is probably decent

so it just depends on per person basis imo, but everyone will always juts say ye ye gamble

tier isnt long enough etc etc

when in reality even in 2 months most of people here wont have killed azshara

[deft nymph]

what you kill doesn't really matter that much imo

[sullen pagoda]

radiance shoulders actually sim the same as goraks if u got NP on some other piece

[deft nymph]

you're just spending all that time playing the game hording residuum

[cobalt pelican]

das not tru

unless you mean 430s

[deft nymph]

to buy a piece you'll use for a few weeks

[drifting cloud]

yeah and half my raider team doesnt have 4 benthic pieces

[sullen pagoda]

yes it is true

@cobalt pelican

[cobalt pelican]

i mean

i checked like yesterday for my own gear

and a 435 goraks

[deft nymph]

i use BBI on goraks without NP on any piece 😮

[royal lantern]

you dont need 4pieces 🤷

[cobalt pelican]

was -57dps

to radiance 445s

so i doubt 445 goraks is like

not an upgrade

[royal lantern]

the hands are not that great in reality cus they dont do dmg all the time, if you are somewhat melee heavy they will heal more

[sullen pagoda]

@cobalt pelican https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nUUWVeTjDz8po8R8tKHZQJ

+11 dps

difference

as i said if you have NP on other piece shoulders are almost exactly the same

[cobalt pelican]

that varies so drastically with crit/mastery though

[rigid mango]

so I assume you go uhh

[cobalt pelican]

you can't just say that

[sullen pagoda]

my point still stands as rogue you have so many good options

[rigid mango]

Uhh

[sullen pagoda]

going for specific is just bad

[rigid mango]

how does stacking loyal work

does it lose a lot of value?

[sullen pagoda]

what do you mean

[cobalt pelican]

nothing changes with the base trait

[sullen pagoda]

oh multiple pieces

[cobalt pelican]

i'm actually not sure if

the death stacks

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/f89LuRozcpEngHkD8wwDuE

[sullen pagoda]

im not sure how proc part works with multiple @rigid mango

[cobalt pelican]

current gear goraks comparison with np on my 435 helm

[rigid mango]

Cuz like

hm

actually idk

[deft nymph]

is MA simming better for most people are you just rocking it because the dmg pattern is better?

[rigid mango]

dd + unstable flames or ttk + op

[deft nymph]

SS like...always sims better

[drifting cloud]

it sims more

[rigid mango]

dependant on shoudlers vs chest

from raid

[deft nymph]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/afPRXim9YvVeB2UCkRxDrC

[real bay]

doubt the death thing stacks but who knows

[drifting cloud]

you have 0 loyal to the end

[deft nymph]

idk if being nelf and getting an extra buffed garrote every 2 minutes is too much or what

[cobalt pelican]

ya your chestpiece like

only has ss and loyal and loyal with 0 bros sucks

and the gore splattered you don't have anything except ss selected

so it won't take ma+gore splattered either

[deft nymph]

oh i've tried it with infusion too

still picked SS

but yeah

if i force it to MA it will pick infusion over SS but lose like 500 dps

i'm just always curious if my gearset is just weird and favoring subt over MA

even tho i have 3DD + NP possible

my best MA gearset is 2DD NP BBI TTK RNG

per sim

[cobalt pelican]

ma @4 loyal will be a dps gain for sure of something reasonable but if you don't reliably have 4loyal in your raid playing ss as a nelf isn't awful

[deft nymph]

lol it just picked MA but then i realized it was HaC

56K dps sounded wrong

lemme see how many loyal bros i got in my raid

hmm we got 6 of em

[cobalt pelican]

filthy transfusion just kinda sucks

[deft nymph]

• me

[cobalt pelican]

so it's not too surprising that nelf ss is a bit ahead

[deft nymph]

yeah i kinda prefer SS playstyle

just wanna make sure i'm not leaving dps on the table

oooh when i put the 4 loyal bros MA pulls a bit ahead

but i have to use my kill-myself trinket

[manic pivot]

heys guys, with assfaces razor coral, when would you say is a good time to reactivate to gain the crit? I've been using it off CD

[bleak spoke]

Lurkers is really good man

!pins

[deft nymph]

yeah we're progging ashvane rn

i feel like my healers will hate me if i switch back to lurkers

lol

[normal shale]

Proper handling of an AoE pull spec'd MA? Used to old SS build and would SS everything, etc.

[chilly wasp]

Guys idk about Trinkets. Harlans Loaded Dice (420) or Dribbling Inkpod (415+ socket)

[rigid mango]

For ST, probs inkpod

@normal shale aoe pulls as in m+?

[normal shale]

Ya, I know I should just carry another Azerite set and spec subterfuge, but ATM I'm just winging it with MA. I find aoe pulls kind of clumsy.

[rigid mango]

By aoe pulls do you mean m+

[normal shale]

Yar.

[rigid mango]

Then MA is just worse in every way

even if u have 0 ss, you go sub

[normal shale]

Ah ok.

MA only worth it on raid bosses.

[rigid mango]

Well, yeah

Sub means you get 3 garrotes out aka get your energy regen going faster

[sullen sphinx]

Is loyal to end as shitty as it looks on sims

[rigid mango]

Nope, BiS.

granted you have 4 others with it

[normal shale]

Kind of a random question, and I know "Sim it" is really the answer, but this is more general. If I enjoy the Subterfuge playstyle just how much potential DPS am I losing by playing MA - kind of a general idea. Is MA that much of a gain at higher ilvls?

Erm that came out wrong.

I enjoy subterfuge, and want to play it, but I recognize MA is better.

Is playing MA that far and away from Subterfuge, and having to take an SS trait, if I'm not a competitive Mythic raider?

[rigid mango]

MA isn't a huge gain, no

[fleet whale]

It's a couple hundred dps increase for me

[rigid mango]

It's about 200 ish for me

[fleet whale]

but nothing too big

and this is with 3 dd

[normal shale]

Ok. My Sims recently switched me to MA and Deeper Strat, and I hate how it feels.

[fleet whale]

i don't think anyone used Deeper strat

[normal shale]

That and I guess I just love the Subterfuge opener, it feels right, and feels more "universally helpful" if I'm doing content other than raid boss.

[rigid mango]

Deeper strat sounds real bad unless you have real high haste with lucid major + iris minor

[verbal sparrow]

Just quick question, which food is best of the best ? 85 Stat or Haste/Crit food ?

MA talent | 3x Twist the Knife 1x Dose

[normal shale]

Ya running Lucid major / minor maybe that's why it switched me.

iris minor sorry*

[fleet whale]

you'll probably still pull better numbers with vigor anyway

[rigid mango]

@verbal sparrow sim it

You can sim foods on raidbots 😄

I wouldn't run deeper strat regardless tbh

there's a lot to fuck up and it's very punishing

[fleet whale]

just run vigor, it's less of a hassle

[rigid mango]

realistically you'll probably end up doing less damage

[normal shale]

Ya I was doing the MA rotation earlier, practicing it in LFR. And even the opener. I did Mut, Rup, Mut, then... had to wait a few ticks of energy for garrote. Felt crap.

[rigid mango]

aye, fuck that.

[fleet whale]

well, i do see one rogue using deeper strat on M Orgozoa

but pretty much everyone else is using vigor

so i was practicing on a dummy with ashvane and Font, and later on, in my second vendetta window, i had a moment of Font, Vendetta, and ashvane buff all up at the same time

is this ideal with these two trinkets?

[rigid mango]

That's what's intended so yeah

1:56 use font 2:10 use vend 2:16 use coral

in an ideal world those are the timings

[fleet whale]

yeah, that's what I'm thinking, just need to get used to it

coral throws me off a bit cause you don't get it's main benefit until later down the line

[rigid mango]

I mean, you get 14s of it

It's just a bit awkward to get used to, I am too

[fleet whale]

double on use

[rigid mango]

I only got my coral yeterday so it's still a learning experience

[fleet whale]

though since font lasts so freaking long it's not as awkward as it could be i guess

[rigid mango]

Yeah

[fleet whale]

plus i had to get used to the new binds, G for font, shift E for coral

[rigid mango]

Those are too major binds for me

To use on trinkets

[sour wasp]

MA style is a dps loss for me

200 dps

lel

[fleet whale]

my bind set-up is unorthodox especially since my mouse is not your standard "mmo" mouse

[rigid mango]

Fair.

[cobalt pelican]

it's weird to me that people think having a mouse with 17 buttons is normal

i just use 1-6 and qezxcvfgty with modifiers and i've never felt the need for more bottans

[sour wasp]

same

[sullen pagoda]

yeah i use a ton of modifiers

[fleet whale]

i have about 6 buttons binded to my mouse myself

[sullen pagoda]

i hate "mmo mouses"

[rigid mango]

I just use 1-5, q-r and a-f with modifiers

[fleet whale]

my mouse is corsair Dark Core RGB or something like that... it kind of looks like it was made for shooters but i like it for any game really

[sullen pagoda]

imo your accuracy and overall control of mouse go way down when using mouse buttons

[civic palm]

Just get a stronger wrist.

[sour wasp]

might as well call it 'wow mouses" since i can't say any other mmo ha that many spells/shit to bind

[civic palm]

and flick yourself to #off-topic

[sullen pagoda]

using keyboard is just so much better

chats dead most of the time anyway

[sour wasp]

O_o @civic palm

[civic palm]

That's a whack excuse, but nice try.

[fleet whale]

i bind shadowstep to 2, still technically on topic

[sour wasp]

disgusting

[fleet whale]

i like having mobility abilities easy to hit

[true nexus]

!essences

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd

[white basalt]

For MA new opener, do I still do the first rupture if I only have 2 combo points from the first mut?

[cobalt pelican]

you juse rupture 3rd global instead

[white basalt]

Word that's what I thought

I've also been poppin sprint in the prepull. Seems helpful to stay on top of boss during initial positioning

[civic palm]

Depends on the boss but yeah.

Sprint or Step or be sneaky

[calm wedge]

need moar SOCKETS

[fleet whale]

imagine if azerite pieces could have sockets

[wispy marsh]

What's an opener looking like running MA?

[calm wedge]

what if you could have 3 sockets on the same item

[rigid mango]

How much do u sim for with that on

[normal shale]

Anyone know how much Residium you get for the 385 world quest azerite pieces.

[bleak spoke]

Like 200 or so iirc

[fleet whale]

i don't think you get any cause they are blue

unless if they changed that

[bleak spoke]

Oh I’m thinking of the reward from emissaries

Nvm

[fleet whale]

i think the benthic ones give residium though

[bleak spoke]

Yeh they do

[normal shale]

Ahhh okay.

[bleak spoke]

I wonder if you could farm residue by farming pearls

[fleet whale]

wouldn't be worth it imo

cause of how expensive 445 azerite pieces are

[bleak spoke]

Definitely a sanity thing though

[fleet whale]

unless if you have literally nothing else to spend pearls on

[bleak spoke]

Like you can get maybe 50-60 pearls a day from just races

Rares *

And then obviously the 20-30 from actual quests and then another 10-15 from algans

And then you do it on alts

[woeful minnow]

I think I'd shoot myself getting 60 pearls a day from rares

[bleak spoke]

Cuz the benthic pieces are boa

[woeful minnow]

quests and the random algans okay but hunting rares in nazjatar is hell

[fleet whale]

this is way too much effort for probably a pretty minor "gain"

[calm wedge]

@rigid mango https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gUn2b99TfV2H9iG2aNWxVJ

I have bad azerite

[rigid mango]

I know u do

[bleak spoke]

Yeah I’ll kill rares if I see them but like

[rigid mango]

and weapon

[bleak spoke]

Heck that

[fleet whale]

ilvl's are so screwed up for this raid

thanks to benthic

[bleak spoke]

Yeah true

[rigid mango]

can u do a top gear sim with any small change @calm wedge I just wanna fuck about with ur pieces

[bleak spoke]

Sim mastery setup with quick/masterful

[calm wedge]

This is my best tho

[bleak spoke]

Probably yields like 200-300 dps

[wispy marsh]

Can someone link me off to an opener with Font? Not quite sure when to pop or what to pop on opener, I know font 5 sec before so you can pot on 1

[civic palm]

[rigid mango]

I don't care about your best

[bleak spoke]

That’s also literally the opener with the font

[woeful minnow]

if you know when to font what's the question

[rigid mango]

I want to take your pieces and put my bette rones

[bleak spoke]

That you just wrote

[wispy marsh]

When to vendetta?

Mut or garotte on opener

[bleak spoke]

Font doesn’t change rotation

[woeful minnow]

font doesn't affect that

[wispy marsh]

I literally just asked what's the oepner look like

I don't know the opener

I know when to font

[bleak spoke]

Man what check the pins

Speaking of openers

Anyone try that m env m g r shit

Sounds like maybe it could be good cuz it might save Tb cps

[alpine mirage]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[rough agate]

Anyone else being asked to hold cds until 1st burn phase on ashvane

[misty tusk]

we only hold CLF on ashvane, vendetta in opener

[sour wasp]

my favorite thing to do on ashvane is to get my tb parried

so there's that

[rough agate]

does that feel shitty if not 2 phasing

[woeful minnow]

I swear something changed with parries in 8.2

[bleak spoke]

tisu are you playing spriest this tier

as well

or was it just for bod

[cobalt pelican]

you can just grab the profile form the quick sim

[bleak spoke]

also man like, with ashvane don't get parried just stand in the coral

zzzzz

[cobalt pelican]

https://pastebin.com/0j8ZuQbT

currently saving till 1min on ashvane but i'm pretty sure it's just a mistake, it kinda made sense when the dps check was way tighter

if you're not 2phasing you should still be able to do 33% per phase without holding everything and messing up all the cds

[marble elm]

im pretty sure parry got buffed

its actually wild

if the boss ever turns like 20 degrees to the side

next global parried

every single time

[white basalt]

Night, I've noticed more parries as well

[rigid mango]

Parry is fucked now, I think it was last reset it got scuffed

[cobalt pelican]

tbh i literally

only remember getting parried once in bod

the entire time on tb

but i also have a very selective memory

this patch i have at least 17000 tb parries a night

[rigid mango]

I agree.

[royal lantern]

why can radiance do parries

[marble elm]

yea its just feeling but im like 99% sure something got changed

[royal lantern]

like, where are you supposed too stand?

[rigid mango]

Just not ontop of tanks

Radiance parry zone is deceptivly small

It's a very small zone around the tanks

[nimble tartan]

They changed parry values to be higher chance so you start getting used to parry in classic so it will have less negative psych impact stay woke gamers don’t let them gaslight you

[royal tree]

So I've got the waist with a socket, which of the remaining 3 should i be prioritising on rolling for now?

[rigid mango]

boots > wrists > hands

Waist is actually the last on that prio list, but

[royal tree]

tbf i got it like 4 rolls in so we good

thanks btw

[bold hearth]

why does the opener with font in simc look so scuffed

[rigid mango]

wdym

[bold hearth]

https://imgur.com/ioxq7bI

[rigid mango]

I see nothing particularly off with that?

[bold hearth]

Mut Mut Rupture?

[rigid mango]

That's teh standard opener

That's assuming you wont crit with first 2 mutis

[pearl pagoda]

THANK FUCK

[bold hearth]

Is standard opener not Garrote Mut Rupture

[pearl pagoda]

outlaw is gone 🦀

[rigid mango]

What?

[royal tree]

well there's 'the old way# and 'the new way' on the site

[rigid mango]

How is outlaw gone

[royal tree]

new way is mut from stealth

[rigid mango]

The diff is fantasitcally small

[bold hearth]

I guess for MA? then you're just throwing away cps

[rigid mango]

You're not.

Assuming you crit both weaps first muti

it's 4 cp rup into another critting muti

into garrote etf

[bold hearth]

I mean this says to Mut twice

[rigid mango]

http://prntscr.com/oqqjvr

[royal tree]

depends on crits as zine says

[pearl pagoda]

new class changes @rigid mango

[rigid mango]

Ah

[pearl pagoda]

30% dmg off blade flurry instead of 45%

[sour wasp]

did they buff sub or nah? I NEED TO KNOW

[pearl pagoda]

wits nerfed too

SUB WHO?

[steel wagon]

Outlaw pretty big nerf in m+

[royal tree]

laughs in echoing blades

[pearl pagoda]

its also a massive nerf for orgozoa

im hoping we get it on monday or else im SOL

[rigid mango]

Can u link

pls

[pearl pagoda]

https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1107341-class-tuning-incoming-tuesday-august-13/

[rigid mango]

What's the orgo shit then

[royal tree]

so they saw the staggering variety in this MDI and decided to tune around that

[jolly comet]

rip outlaw lol

[pearl pagoda]

now i just have to get lucky and get the perfect sin azerite

no pieces in raid for SS/EB

[rigid mango]

SS EB

TTK

[ornate lodge]

TTK SS off of Blackwater

[rigid mango]

Yep.

[faint harness]

sub for orgozoa

ez

[jolly comet]

the dream chest hasnt dropped and bitches wont trade me

i had to upgrage the benthic piece..

[pearl pagoda]

LMFAO

[sour wasp]

upgrage

[nimble tartan]

it’s not that bad of a nerf inshallah

[royal lantern]

brace yourself my sin brothers

[rigid mango]

I'm prepped

[warm void]

incoming outlaw rogues. how do i play sin in m+?

[civic palm]

You're all fucking muted

[hollow drift]

What is the best trait setup for mythic+?

[empty badge]

im e x c i t e d

[rigid mango]

Gimme a second I'm gonna make a copy pasta for this shit

[deft nymph]

i only have 2 EB pieces and they're both chests RIP

guess i can't do dungeons

[empty badge]

yikes im not ready

[civic palm]

I AM READY FOR YOUR STUPID QUESTIONS!!

[vital haven]

pour one for our outlaw brothers

[civic palm]

#outlaw 👈

[hollow drift]

And I didn't believe them when they said the rogue discord was shit..

[ember rover]

It's a hit to all roguekind

[faint harness]

The biggest upset is the absolute non-existing love for sub rogues

What have we done to deserve this fate

[royal lantern]

people that cry that outlaw is dead now because it gets nerfed, and they are ''forced''too play sin

meanwhile i played sin only for m+, even thought it was somewhat weaker 🤷

[polar cape]

Or stay outlul and still be fine <.<

[vital haven]

@faint harness i think sub is one of those specs that are on the chopping block

thats why blizz will not touch it anymore

[faint harness]

you mean they'll remove it?

[vital haven]

no

massively changed

come next expack

[faint harness]

they already did that 🙂

went very well

[royal lantern]

sub doesnt get anything because it gets a big rework in 9.0

same thing happend with demolock in legion too bfa

[faint harness]

Outlaw is now known as combat once again cus why the fuck not, mace spec is back boiz

[royal lantern]

i mean sub sorry

[civic palm]

#outlaw 👈

Don't make this outlaw_2

Yap about it there, not here.

[royal lantern]

I TYPED THE WRONG SPEC SORRY

[faint harness]

sub isnt the correct spec either

lets be honest

[dark crag]

Mace spec? I have a 440 mace

[faint harness]

2/2/2 assa rogue prevails

[rigid mango]

I'm making a fucking copy pasta

for tomorrow

[vital haven]

@hollow drift any combination of EB, TTK, and SS

i suggest tuning into seliathan's stream

he is the sin m+ rogue

[civic palm]

Yeah bother him

[hollow drift]

@vital haven Thanks

[vital haven]

np

[carmine valve]

what essence do sin use in m+?

[deft nymph]

lol

[civic palm]

Oh that needs to go into my fucking fucking annoying spam as well.

[severe bough]

Serious raiding question

Would a sin build with 3 eb, 1-2 TTK 1 NP could overshadow outlaw with the nerf?

[woeful minnow]

you got me

[severe bough]

Its like a 7% nerf on overall which is gonna be significant for my guild

[rigid mango]

In what scenario, orgo?

[severe bough]

Yes

[rigid mango]

I doubt it

Still perma wits

[severe bough]

We are 2 outlaw-ing it

🤔 true

[rigid mango]

We're 4 outlaw-ing it

so

[severe bough]

[rigid mango]

[severe bough]

Kk

[granite rampart]

as sin as well you would lose a lot of single target to run that build, and boss damage is really important

[severe bough]

I was concerned

[marble elm]

4 outlaw on orgozoa?

[rigid mango]

Yes

(:

[severe bough]

Ty

[marble elm]

[vital haven]

what is this zul?

[severe bough]

Feelsgreat man

[rigid mango]

We only have one fire n spriest

[vital haven]

just kill it this week before the nerfs EZ CLAP

[rigid mango]

so we are all teh cleave

[marble elm]

WACK

[civic palm]

btw, this isn't the OTL channel, but this change changes nothing o _o

btw

_ >

[severe bough]

I mostly asked about trying to swap to orgo

But if its not needed then i can breathe

[normal quail]

M+ people actually crying about the Outlaw nerf, jesus

[granite rampart]

probably not worth swapping tbh unless your guild has enough add damage that you can go mostly single target as sin

[severe bough]

Nope

We dont have enough

[granite rampart]

then stay outlaw

[vital haven]

just stay outlaw

[severe bough]

Kk

Thanks again

[normal quail]

seen the blue posts?

[civic palm]

Nope.

WHAT BLUE POSTS?!!?!?

[severe bough]

[normal quail]

outlaw nerf

[woeful minnow]

discord (particularly #outlaw) has been exploding for about 30 minutes but no nobody saw them

[vital haven]

if we keep talking about this @civic palm is gonna flip his shit

[stuck knoll]

Miz please don't

[harsh anchor]

Just delete your outlaw weps and play sin - problem solved

[vital haven]

just got a divers folly dude

[civic palm]

OMG THERE WERE OUTLAW NERFS?!

Then talk about them in #outlaw

Because this isn't the place.

[rigid mango]

[vital haven]

can we change the name of this channel to #outlaw nerfs

[severe bough]

^

Anyways

[lone junco]

Nerfs nerfs nerfs. Errybody

[sick prairie]

!help

[normal quail]

you guys are very normal

[civic palm]

As normal as this place allows O _O

[glacial grotto]

can i talk about outlaw getting nerfed sucks because getting m+ azerite pieces for sin this tier sucks balls

[rugged panther]

Hey boys in want to become one with the Sin

[glacial grotto]

gief more ss/eb pieces pliz

[rugged panther]

I

[civic palm]

👈 👈 👈 👈 👈

THIS IS ALL THE POWER I HAVE!!

[rigid mango]

👈 👈 👈 👈 👈 👈 👈 👈 👈 👈 👈 👈

[civic palm]

https://tenor.com/view/star-trek-shake-funny-gif-3539694

[rigid mango]

!guide

[civic palm]

WEATHER THE STORM!!

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[rugged panther]

SiN men let me absorb your energies so i can become one with you gachiBass

[vital haven]

@glacial grotto bod was god tier for getting good azerite pieces

[lone junco]

Grab your house arrest bracelet. It's time.

[glacial grotto]

yeah i played sin all last tier in m+

now im still using 420 pieces 😦

[civic palm]

HERE'S THE GOOD NEWS OUTLAW IDIOTS

THIS CHANGES NOTHING, GO BACK TO YOUR HOLE

#outlaw #outlaw #outlaw #outlaw #outlaw

[vital haven]

opulence, conclave and king all gave bis azerite pieces for sin

[shy dust]

Miz fighting the good fight

[civic palm]

THAT'S NOT ASSASSINATION RELATED!!

[rigid mango]

I've got my copy pastas ready for tomorrow

[civic palm]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[vital haven]

how do i change my tag btw

[civic palm]

USE MY WEAKAURAS

HELP ME FEED MY CHILDREN

[shy dust]

I prefer Afenar's

[rigid mango]

When people wake up

I'm ready

take a copy pasta

[heady ridge]

so did anybody already post the assassination guide in the outlaw channel or

[rigid mango]

Seems like a stupid place to put it.

[heady ridge]

come on, its a joke about the nerfs ):

[civic palm]

Yell well go jerk off in there.

[rigid mango]

Gottem-

[civic palm]

Yeah nothing changed, haha nerfs, haha.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[sour wasp]

why so sassy today mizerok jeez

[faint harness]

unless you're competing in the MDI it literally doesnt matter

[rigid mango]

today

[civic palm]

Doesn't matter in MDI either.

[mighty elm]

https://tenor.com/view/ricegum-dodge-dodging-miss-me-gif-5203331

[rigid mango]

You're saying that as if Miz ever isn't sassy

[civic palm]

Much like OTL doesn't matter in this channel AT ALL.

[sour wasp]

true

[civic palm]

HERE'S THE GOOD NEWS OUTLAW IDIOTS

THIS CHANGES NOTHING, GO BACK TO YOUR HOLE

#outlaw #outlaw #outlaw #outlaw #outlaw

[sour wasp]

mizerok just brings the sass

[heady ridge]

outlaw was basically doubling the damage of the second best spec

so yeah not that hard

of a nerf

[rigid mango]

?

wdym

sin could do more damage

[faint harness]

what are you talking about

[rigid mango]

easily

if u played to pad

sin does more damage

[faint harness]

triggered

[rigid mango]

https://tenor.com/view/ah-shit-here-we-go-again-ah-shit-cj-gta-gta-san-andreas-gif-13933485

[faint harness]

people go into keys with ST traits and say the spec sucks

[vital haven]

ah shit, here we go again

[rigid mango]

Yeah man

I get out dps'd by outlaws with my 3 dd 3np biuld

pls

help me

[rugged panther]

Ah shit here we go again, reforging azerite traits between m+ and raids

[normal quail]

@faint harness Say that to Seli

[rigid mango]

[faint harness]

What

[normal quail]

lets see what he says when he compares assas to outlaw

[rigid mango]

Push let's leave.

[sour wasp]

wat

[rigid mango]

🤔

[faint harness]

[rigid mango]

Fotm rerollers go away

Back to #outlaw nothing changed

[civic palm]

Well at least this is on-topic.

[woeful minnow]

but is it better

[rigid mango]

He's entirely unbiased.

[civic palm]

As we all should be.

The 1 True Spec.

So it is said...

[scarlet sequoia]

hell no

subtlety

[faint harness]

we're all rogues in the end (:

I dont take sides (:

[sour wasp]

except if you play outlul you're dead to me

[scarlet sequoia]

on farm

nah

[faint harness]

i made my sub build today

[scarlet sequoia]

should kill zaqul this week

[faint harness]

with 435 azerites

[scarlet sequoia]

2 day raiding yay

[faint harness]

remember that one time when overtime gestapo raided GT

[sour wasp]

ah so that's why you were salty about no buffs to sub @faint harness

[normal quail]

What I mean is that Seli keeps saying that Outlaw is overpowered in both ST and cleave in M+

[sour wasp]

ecks dee

[rigid mango]

Beause it is.

What are u on about

I'm very confused.

[faint harness]

I'm a sub rogue by heart but i play whatever is the most optimal spec, aka assassination for raiding.

[scarlet sequoia]

just bring it back to nighthold

where good sub rogues could beat assa rogues

that was nice

[sour wasp]

if you play only optimal stuff, you are a nerd 😃

[vital haven]

lol

[faint harness]

you're on a class discord, i think we all qualifies as nerds

lets step out of the nerd closet

[sour wasp]

facts

[dire spoke]

hello otl got nerfed and new to sin, do we TB on cooldown?

[sour wasp]

no

[civic palm]

I mean if you were nerds you would have done the math and not freaked out over the OTL nerf 😛

Either this nerf OR the prior.

[vital haven]

oh god

tb on cd questions

notlikethis

[sour wasp]

here we go

[mortal orbit]

shadowmeld on CD

SS x3

[sour wasp]

so guys i found this cool new essence uhh

lucid dreams something

how use when?

[mortal orbit]

that's like "how do I use my minor essence"

well you gotta go 25 yards in 5 seconds

[woeful minnow]

hot take: these outlaw reroll questions aren't actually worse than someone asking how to use coral/font/both for the millionth time

[mortal orbit]

wait im not in off topic

does it matter

[sour wasp]

banned

[strange python]

Can someone tell me how they use coral and font together ?

[rigid mango]

#tc-updates can

[misty tusk]

Click both buttons really fast

[vital haven]

what is the best mechagon ring combo?

i got 3 diff spells

get haste

[rigid mango]

nature/haste I think?

[mighty elm]

Enemy form the back + haste

From*

[vital haven]

hmm

[rigid mango]

pfp back

[vital haven]

well at least the 3 diff spells is east to activate as well

mut kick ??? profit

[mighty elm]

Both have 15 sec internal cd

[rigid mango]

One is easier to proc, most of the time

anyways

[mighty elm]

Back one is always gonna proc on cd almost

[dire spoke]

is sin still viable

[misty tusk]

No

[lone junco]

Sin is in.

[mighty elm]

Sin is bin.

[civic palm]

SIN IS BAEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[robust light]

whatg builds are u guys running for m+? iod have thought something like 3xSS, 3xEB crimson tempest subterfuge would be the build but when i check high sin rogues they play more of a single target build

[faint harness]

2/2/2 is quite popular

2 ss, 2 TTK, 2 EB

[robust light]

ah right

makes sense then

[faint harness]

but it depends on dungeon too

[robust light]

whats 2/2/2

which rows are they

oh u mean traits

what talents?

[faint harness]

i mean its just 2 of those traits

you run ST build more or less

[robust light]

no CT?

[balmy quest]

1/2/3 ss/ttk/eb is great for large aoe/fortified keys

[faint harness]

nein

[robust light]

aight

[summer valve]

eb provides all the aoe you need, ct falls behind

[robust light]

isnt it hard to get a piece with EB and SS on it

it was last a couple tiers ago :p

[jolly comet]

yes EB and SS are hard to come by on the same piece

theres one from mechagon

gl

[balmy quest]

Eb gives you combo points to use envenom every second global, so lots of chances at poison bomb on big aoe packs

Which does better than CT

[jolly comet]

rocking that 420 for the rest of the expac

[faint harness]

https://tenor.com/view/nickyoung-questionmarks-what-excuseme-huh-gif-4486363

behemoth chest has TTK and SS for instance

you can easily get that in 445

[jolly comet]

i mean EB/SS

[robust light]

dont raid mythic so itd be a 335 for me

435*

im gonan run sims but whats the general stat prio with that build? id assume crit first

then?

[faint harness]

Pistoleer spaulders have EB/SS

[jolly comet]

gotta pray you get it on random

[summer valve]

there's 4 items from m+ that have eb/ss but none have OP

[robust light]

the waycrest chest does too

[low junco]

even if you dont raid mythic u can find a group for behemoth easily

[jolly comet]

cant target it unless you wait 10 weeks

[low junco]

the boss is a joke

[robust light]

yeah but first boss isnt faceroll is it

so pugging past that can legit be hard

[jolly comet]

yea first boss is pretty easy on N/H

[low junco]

ive seen pugs clearing 3/8 bosses

[fleet whale]

first boss mythic is a pug nightmare

[low junco]

i guess it depends

on ur realm?

[faint harness]

guess it does

[low junco]

i have like

[faint harness]

but 1st boss EP is on grong difficulty levels speaking in relative terms

[low junco]

2 groups constantly clearing 3/8 on alts every week

and its mixed of several of the guilds that are mythic raiding anyway

[faint harness]

the trash before 1st boss in EP is more difficult than 1st boss in BoD

[low junco]

true

[fleet whale]

that's not really an average pug though

[low junco]

i mean

[faint harness]

A true pug wont kill 1st boss

easily*

[low junco]

it kinda is i guess? @fleet whale

scuffed alts

5/8 on mains

[faint harness]

Doesnt matter

knowing the fight > scuffed alts

[low junco]

maybe

[fleet whale]

you say that as if a lot of players on a given server even raid mythic

[low junco]

raid mythic they say its going to be fun they say

[faint harness]

i wouldnt play this game if i didnt raid mythic

legit the only thing keeping me playing it

[low junco]

i wouldnt've played this game if it wasnt my guild

[faint harness]

yea guild/mythic raiding

[low junco]

i am probably going to quit if the guild disbands

[nimble tartan]

I love sin

[inner wedge]

is there rogue guide for the coral?

[low junco]

what exactly do u need to know abotu coral @inner wedge

[inner wedge]

when its best to use it considering bones trinket for exanple

most useful wa for it would be nice too

[rigid mango]

Bones trinket?

[low junco]

bones trinket?

[vital haven]

bonus?\

[rigid mango]

Dice?

[low junco]

bones

[rigid mango]

[low junco]

🍖

[inner wedge]

i mean dice, sorry)

[rigid mango]

There's nothing special

You just use coral as soon as u can to apply bleed

[inner wedge]

you don't wanna to overcap right?

[rigid mango]

Then consume with 2nd vend and reapply after

Overcap what

[inner wedge]

crit

[rigid mango]

You wont.

You consume the buff every time you vend

And reapply after

[vital haven]

you mean overcap with ma?

[low junco]

u cant

[vital haven]

ya if anything it makes ma NOT SUCK

god i fucking hate not critting during ma window

[inner wedge]

ma?

[low junco]

MASTER ASSASSIN

the talent

[inner wedge]

ah, ok thnx