thats what he meant
#assassination
low junco
red plaza
@dense axle It's been that way for a while with MA. Even on the opener it should be vendetta > tb > vanish > env > mut > env
dense axle
yeah, I kinda tuned out for the last 2 weeks or so after the APL got sorta stable
pulsar fjord
I saw it earlier but I cannot find it right now. Still sporting the trinket from the island, and got a 424 punchcard, but I want to sim it first. I have been all over raid bots trying to figure it out. Any tips or pointing in the right direction would be appreciated
dense axle
@final river You could probably look at your stat priorities, but 120 agi is pretty awesome unless your stat weights are up in the 2.4 range
your normalized stat weights*
final river
agi 2.5, crit 5.10
dense axle
those dont seem like normalized values
idle ember
I have compu device and 395 gift, just got a tiny electromental in a jar from my cache. Sims 250 dps higher than gift. Do I just forget attaching a use trinket to my opener? Feels weird just talking about it.
dense axle
if you normalize it to agi = 1, then my stats are up in the 1.5-1.7 range. So 120 agi = 120 but 50 crit is worth 85
still better to use that one 120 agi gem somewhere
rigid mango
I mean
dense axle
preferably on a benthic you'll always be wearing
rigid mango
Why are you even trying to theorize this shit when you can literally go into top gear and sim it
dense axle
^
manic quartz
@dense axle where i can see this APL thingy? like so you have in ur picture
rigid mango
Go do a quick sim and scroll to the bottom
dense axle
make sure you have Detailed Sim checked first
rigid mango
You get the log there
whole cypress
how would you guys use galecallers with ashvane coral?
dense axle
it's a sample ability log
whole cypress
ok thanks
manic quartz
thanks guys :>
frail wasp
!coral
dapper plover
how do you react to double crit for muti
im already pressing the next one by the time i notice
dense cedar
I don't know of any way to like make it easier to not over mutilate other than just being able to pay attention
bronze kelp
There is no easier way
Maybe you write an WA the turns your screen bright yellow when you reach 4+ cp
Trololo
civic palm
done and done
bronze kelp
XD
dense cedar
of all the time i've played sin, 3 cp mutliates still make me real sad
hollow stone
Better than 2 🤷♂️
hollow stone
The creator of that WA is sketchy tho
civic palm
RO _OD
dense cedar
is it better than hitting 2 tho?
dense cedar
i was kinda just thinking about -1 vs -2
in the grand scheme of actually doing damage it doesn't matter
just makes me feel bad
civic palm
Stop feeling bad 
Waste of time
dense cedar
I thought we played this game to feel bad?
civic palm
If that's what you wanna do you might as well keep playing SUB.
strange python
Roasted
shy dust
Miz why
dense cedar
Rude
shy dust
It’s already dead
dense cedar
Its not dead, its just stealthily hiding its damage...
civic palm
@shy dust The internets favorite past-time.
rigid mango
9.2 
dense cedar
what is ur current profession?
manic quartz
would you take DD/Undulating or DD/SS ?
magic silo
both herb and mining
dense cedar
Sure then I suppose
shy dust
Not wrong Miz
civic palm
Never Undulating if there's any decent option.
manic quartz
well i got the choice in two separate chests in one there is only DD/undulating the viable option and in the other DD/SS or NP/SS
same ilvl
civic palm
DD/SS and SIM if it's better to run Subterfuge over MA then, either are probably fine.
Especially considering almost nothing is ST.
in raids.
manic quartz
yeah, gotta sim it tomorrow, off to sleep now, thanks for input ^^
smoky dew
Meh, i mean, im simming all of my gear on raidbots, but it feels 12% haste is low... but i guess i gotta trust them sims
magic silo
cause it'll be probably expensive to level it from 0
civic palm
Eh, probably not.
smoky dew
oh well, will see tomorrow how this amount of haste plays
magic silo
@civic palm is it about 1st or 2nd statement lol
civic palm
Probably not expensive.
magic silo
I see
dense cedar
How much u got? @magic silo
faint sand
Whats like the stat cap for assa rogue
Can anybody help me with that?
And other thing i wanted to ask is, whats the assa opener for like a boss (single target)?
Because i think im doing it wrong
dark crag
There are no caps
faint sand
I mean optimal cap
Like just get 30 crit and then go and get your second stat for example
magic silo
@dense cedar gold? if yes not much ~120k
dark crag
M r m g (rockboi) vend tb (bote) env mut to 4+cp env
dense cedar
Bank will feel it @magic silo
dark crag
There are no optimal caps, 
dense cedar
Idk if its different now but engineering ain't great for ur money
faint sand
Ok ty @dark crag
And for the openner what do you do?
Just to see if in doing it correctly
dark crag
M r m g (rockboi) vend tb (bote) env mut to 4+cp env
faint sand
Im*
dark crag
With masterassassin talented
red plaza
If the 2nd m crits and the g puts you at 5 CPs, I take that it's ok to use tb at 5cp?
dark crag
Yes
faint sand
I have subterfuge
red plaza
Sweet thanks, that's what I've been doing, it just feels weird when capped lol
dark crag
G r g rockboi vend tb bote env mut to 4+ env
Obviously you keep doing mut into env with 4+ cp after
faint sand
I do this: from stealth-garrote-rupture-garrote-vendetta-toxic blade-envenom-muti(until 4-5 CP)-envenom and ikn if i have to use vanish during vendetta or no?
Can anybody help with that?
deft nymph
when garrote is running low
dark crag
With ss you vanish and garrote after the first empowered garrote runs off
deft nymph
you vanish garrote garrote
scenic nacelle
!font
civic palm
BEEP BOOP
prePull and before Vendettas
scenic nacelle
lmao yea I found it in the pins thanks
dense cedar
didn't even have to use the emote
strange python
I need help. I have MA talented. I've been trying to macro Vanish after vendetta, so that I can cast toxic blade in stealth, but my auto attack takes me out of stealth and casting toxic blade out of stealth consumes a precious gcd of MA.
what do I do
marble elm
vendetta is on the gcd
strange python
yes but is there a way to cancel my auto attack
because /cast vendetta /use 14 /cast vanish works fine
dense cedar
vanishing should stop u from autoing
civic palm
Sure does.
strange python
could be my trinket use?
marble elm
what are you trying to do
strange python
have 1 button do 3 things so that I can auto pilot to the top of the meter
dense cedar
just press vanish during the gcd?
strange python
just checked, trinket breaks stealth 
civic palm
Not going to be on top unless you're on top a pile of corpses.
dense cedar
ur already not doing anything
dense cedar
what trinket is it?
strange python
ashvane's
empty badge
what happens if i salvage a azerite, buy a new piece then restore the azerite
will they give me negative residiuum
strange python
I'll try a cast sequence where the trinket is used after vendetta and before vanish
whole ginkgo
you dont wanna vanish til just b4 ur next gcd is up after vendetta anyway
tropic ocean
@empty badge no
marble elm
can u not just press the 4 buttons?
tropic ocean
You cant refund it if you dont own enough residuum
dense cedar
sin already doesn't have that many buttons
harsh sphinx
do any specs have many buttons anymore 
dense cedar
Bring back Expose Armor
strange python
can I use my ms as an excuse for wanting to make this macro? I play with constant 200 ms
faint sand
Ok so my rotation its ok?
topaz trout
you have less of an excuse then
strange python
how what
dense cedar
I feel like that would make the macro function worse @strange python
faint sand
I was doubting that my rotation was wrong at the begining
topaz trout
it would
faint sand
From stealth garrote rup garrote vend toxic blade envenom. . . . Right?
Or do i do garrote mutilate rupture?
tropic ocean
@faint sand youve been answered
lost horizon
With subterfuge+SS?
tropic ocean
Right under where you asked your question
faint sand
I just have 1 ss
tropic ocean
Garrote rupture garrote vendetta toxic blade envenom
faint sand
No i wanst answered about that specific rotation at the begining
I got the answer for the vanish
faint sand
Ok tyvm i apreciate that
And for raid boss like comander the essence rank 3 from the raid main and the worldvein minor are the best right?
faint sand
I simmed it and says worldvein its better minor but i dont think it can beat lucid minor
I got confused by that
tropic ocean
Because sim uses 100% uptime on world vein
lost horizon
You can adjust the # of people using worldvein, I believe default is 5
tropic ocean
But thats not a real scenario
faint sand
Ohhh thats it
icy stag
How do you use condensed life force after the first use on the typical boss fight? On cd or do you wait for it to line up with vendetta?
tropic ocean
depends
strange python
It's pinned
lost horizon
Fight length dependent
tropic ocean
On how many uses you get during the fight
glossy rapids
bruh
tropic ocean
If lining it with vendetta makes you lose one use you dont
lost horizon
Fight <6min, save for 4min vendetta
lost horizon
That kinda thing
tropic ocean
If it doesnt you line
lost horizon
@glossy rapids read guides
icy stag
Thanks for the info, guys.
faint sand
And my last question is that if ist worth to have a single ss trait to get the extra combo point or should i dont use ss at all if i just have 1 ss trait (for raid boss like comander)?
lost horizon
Sim
tropic ocean
it depends on your gear
lost horizon
It's again 100% dependent on gear
dense cedar
what's ur gear like? @glossy rapids
glossy rapids
425
lost horizon
Just make sure you sim the trait combos using both subterfuge and MA
glossy rapids
i mean i can get to close to 40k
tropic ocean
in optimal azerite setup you want 0 ss on single target unless fight is < 3 min
glossy rapids
but then it goes down to like 25- 30
dense cedar
r u making sure to pool for tb windows and such?
lost horizon
Post logs if you're looking for actual rotation hel0
dense cedar
CLF major Lucid Minor @jolly spoke
lost horizon
@jolly spoke sim it out for yourself to be sure, most use CLF and lucid
jolly spoke
@dense cedar CLF?
whole ginkgo
it's mainly rank 3 CLF
dense cedar
If u don't have a proper CLF u can just use Bote
and if u don't have that lol
Lucid major i guess?
whole ginkgo
blood of the enemy with lucid minor or lucid dreams with world vein resonance minor until then
whole ginkgo
make sure you have enough energy to squeeze at least 2 envenoms into your toxic blade window
dense cedar
don't be energy starved before u use Toxic Blade
or else u don't get anything out of it
whole ginkgo
envenom does poison damage, and is increased by TB
glossy rapids
right
dense cedar
like its hard to give advice off of nothing
glossy rapids
ima try that
glossy rapids
i usually use it on cd idk
dense cedar
okay
jolly spoke
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tLwoAYsfrcwh2P8UYs3L8 is what im currently running with....
faint sand
Tyvm for that @tropic ocean i should get rid of ss then
jolly spoke
@dense cedar
dense cedar
don't pool too much cos then you're jsut wasting its short cooldown
glossy rapids
uh
tropic ocean
@faint sand should sim your char idk your items
glossy rapids
how does subterfuge rotation go
tropic ocean
Ss might be good for you
glossy rapids
or start
tropic ocean
Garrote rupture garrote vendetta toxic blade envenom
whole ginkgo
but yeah if your raiding this teir make sure you have your benthic slots filled and the mechagon trinket with the revered cyclotronic blast punchcard socketed, that is.. a huge amount of damage
civic palm
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
whole ginkgo
yeah good point miz lol
dense cedar
Do we still use Unbridled Fury?
tropic ocean
whole ginkgo
yeah
dense cedar
I've never used Bote as a minor but if the sims says that's waht's best for ya @jolly spoke
jolly spoke
i havent had any luck for benthic gear 😅
glossy rapids
@tropic ocean garrote with one point?
dense cedar
wait why prolonged? @tropic ocean
jolly spoke
well ive simmed but it doesnt show a drastic increase @dense cedar
tropic ocean
Cuz they are cheaper
dense cedar
lol
whole ginkgo
rayne, you can buy benthic tokens on an alt, and send them to your rogue
save your manapearls for upgrading once you get socketed pieces
mine took me only a few gambles tho
so i am lucky boi
jolly spoke
i have benthic socketed 420 boots but the upgrade is like 350!
whole ginkgo
it doesn't matter rayne, look at my sim here https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d3H44VmfLyf1YHrRV9AjNi
my 415 bracers are fine
i will probably never upgrade them
dense cedar
rip on that trinket btw @jolly spoke
tropic ocean
well pearls are easy
whole ginkgo
they sim better than my mythic bracers dude
tropic ocean
Only upgrade on main roll token with alts
whole ginkgo
i have 445 boots as well, 415 boots shit on them
tropic ocean
Today there was like 6 pearl quests
high nacelle
Azshara gloves any good? not as good as benthic but in the interim?
high nacelle
yeh sims say upgrade but not sure if the effect is worth
tropic ocean
its not
jolly spoke
lmao why? i replaced my 420 Kimbuls with the gale
jolly spoke
kimbul is better? the gales isnt bad for an opener or i know im not moving
tropic ocean
but how can you know
neon sedge
tropic ocean
that you dont need to move
jolly spoke
true true
tropic ocean
or even worse that boss gets moved
jolly spoke
im not sure whats really holding my numbers back. im generally top 3 dps in heroic eternal
just RNG jesus isnt working for me
vast monolith
Is that forme multiplier better than dealdy/quick navigation?
tropic ocean
waxen vine
around my third vendetta on a dummy, tb has been coming off cd 4ish secs before font. Do we finish tb window then font or just font during the tb?
for double trinket
razor
whole ginkgo
i was like wow then i realised your sim is for 6 minutes lol
thats absolutely fried peach :S
fight style dungeon slice beta
hmm
tropic ocean
Scuffed sim
spare sable
is using the ashvane trinket with the font of power a bad idea? Which would be better?
placid dawn
pins
tropic ocean
they are good together
dense cedar
I thought people took the shrinking/growing trait for the goggles?
does it change with ur stats?
tropic ocean
i think bombs are good in m+
dark crag
Are you no millionaire?
oblique kiln
any good info on Ashvane's razor coral usage or Wago's for sin?
tropic ocean
forest trench
anybody was able to cast Azshara's Font of Power invis before the patch ?
arctic walrus
x2 pistoleer's and a sanguine, the grind continues
dark crag
Thats like the worst that could happen
forest trench
wierd
faint harness
2 gambles for me
pistoleer and sanguine
using 435 tide lurker or what they're called
arctic walrus
severe bough
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nnwiE6GxTCG6EuHJ6mAdAU
Cyclotronic changed my stat weights 
arctic walrus
Look what our tank just got
severe bough
Die
or well, your tank must die
you get the point
i need to go full crit now
i didnt want to
rotund pivot
which slot is best to gamble on for azerite
red plaza
run a drop optimizer sim
severe bough
it really depends on what you got
rough rule of thumb is gorak'thuls and cepha
but maybe your case is different
arctic walrus
I'm saving a roll for azshara, I'm dumb like that
rotund pivot
only on heroic ep 6/8. someone mentioned something about first 3 bosses having some options or maybe i read that in outlaw channel
arctic walrus
The first 3 do have okay azzerite but only if your group has loyals
young meteor
@arctic walrus got two of those back to back last season. Hurt bad
river zinc
ok so this is the PIN
Condensed Life-Force:
In the opener, after MA/Subt window, before vendetta and then on cooldown as it's not buffed by any of your other Rogue abilities. Minor gain in some situations holding for 2nd Vendetta (Providing you don't miss a cast) due to the haste procs
I just dont understand it because im dumb..can someone try to clarify this?
devout bone
did the sim models change recently? I had crit / mastery way ahead, changed nothing, and now haste is ahead by miles
river zinc
so hit the
Garrote->muti->Rupture->Muti->muti->enven->CLF?
then hit vendetta vanish TB or whatever?
river zinc
I meant to say 132*
hollow lynx
Why master poisoner?
river zinc
idk im just bad I guess
tropic ocean
Mut rupture mut garrote clf vendetta tb vanish envenom mut envenom
hollow lynx
I run Elusiveness over Cheat Death & Internal Bleeding over Iron or pray
Those are really just personal preference.
river zinc
Ok - so im just asking to learn I apologize.
So @tropic ocean you said mut rupt mut garror clf
The guide has opener as
Master Assassin talented
Garrote
Mutilate
Rupture
Vendetta
Vanish
Toxic Blade
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Should I actually do
Garrote
Mutilate
Rupture
CLF
OR does the placement of garrote not really matter?
tropic ocean
The website is not updated afaik
night summit
for outlaw what fight style do you guys sim with on raidbots
tropic ocean
With master assassin and 3 dd you want 2 mutilate in ur crit buffed window
night summit
my bad
river zinc
oh fuck...thank you..i've been doing it so wrong
tropic ocean
so with mut rup mut garrote is superior to putting 2 dots in crit buff
and it guarantees at least 4cp envenom after vanish, mostly 5cp
median sand
440 cannonball from m+ chest...any place in the m+ meta rn?
dire spoke
opener is like 8 strict buttons, hard to mess up
gray citrus
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/r477vKZB51ecPEBXgic2ts no 46 club yet 😦
gray citrus
wait u rite
near pilot
ST raid, agi pot or fury?
zenith gust
fury
sterile ocean
did assassin get nerfed or something?
near pilot
thx
harsh sphinx
what makes you say that
sterile ocean
last weent went from top dps now im 7th
which that wouldent be normal from just 1 week
civic palm
Nope.
zenith gust
team mates getting more/better loot?
sullen pagoda
you either got lucky last week or played bad this week 🤷🏿
sterile ocean
nope im playing like i always do
arctic walrus
You're running an ss without sub
rapid aurora
ik i dont have anything else
white basalt
Showing that a 445 dagger over my current dagger is only like 572 dps increase. Is this accurate? I feel like it should be higher.
strange python
with coral do you macro it to vendetta and forget it?
true pelican
@white basalt you're simming without enchant probably
stable isle
@rapid aurora switching to sub is a 1.9% upgrade https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3PHcz2KAKiDSJeCfY62KhG
just do that til you can get better shoulders, even some of the 430 dd shoulders may sim better for you, try gear compare
white basalt
ah good call
rapid aurora
ty
strange python
Quick question. What essences should I use for M+ as assa
rapid aurora
how tf
stable isle
holy hell
sturdy dust
Just started using CLF - when is the optimal time to use it?
stable isle
check the pins, but after your opening MA window, before vendetta
rapid aurora
clf?
strange python
how do i use coral? specifically if i have font as well?
harsh sphinx
check #tc-updates
night summit
how does the pocket trinket sim? does it sim well but not good?
strange python
so i only press coral around vendetta times?
harsh sphinx
ideally you pair coral with vendetta yes
strange python
oh just seems wierd cuz its like a 20 second cd
harsh sphinx
you wanna let it stack up, if you used it every 20 sec you would prob just get 1/2 crit stacks
strange python
raidbots broken for anyone else right now?
woeful minnow
works for me
faint quiver
How is the rotation with ciclotronic?
hazy iron
Use it outside of vendetta when you’re low on energy and dots won’t drop off
faint quiver
ty
icy ember
which is somewhere around 40s into the fight
fallow otter
you should make plays with it tbh, like...use it when you have to step out for barrage
or when you are running out for beam+sstep on unnat
but yeh, the answers above are accurate for patchwerk styles
if there is window where you are dodging a mechanic anyway and its close to this timer you should sync it up
still junco
got my bis from random 445 shoulder piece from the vendor
cursive dagger
So this sentence from a post in this channel:
"Font & Coral Useage
- Use font 5s precombat (to allow preppy time) and after that pretty much on cooldown as long as Vendetta has less than 20s on its cooldown."
This makes it sound like your now wanted to pair your Font with vendetta now instead of the Coral. so when does coral fit in?
true pelican
cursive dagger
yeah thats why i figured it would also put it outside the vendetta window
(the coral cd that is)
ember rover
@cursive dagger the new update tells us that it's better to have full coral during vendetta than it is to have full font.
You get a sweet spot of 10s during vendetta in which you have both font and coral up at the same time by playing it like this.
cursive dagger
okay so basically pop font on pull as usual and then pop font on cd and wait until coral is off cd to use vendetta to get full duration?
ember rover
Almost correct.
You pop font when vendetta is 20s or less closer to come off of CD and make sure to align it with TB.
ember rover
That's super minmaxing, most people just macro it into vendetta, but ye.
Idea is, you get a super TB window.
WHere you have both font + coral + ma up for the entirety of the TB.
So for like 10s, you`re a literal god.
cursive dagger
so vendetta has 19s on cd -> pop full font -> pop vendetta off cd -> coral -> vanish -> TB?
ember rover
Pretty much that.
marble elm
if u are playing blood probably delay it until after
but unless u are waiting forever i dont think u will go over crit cap using it with MA
cursive dagger
it will obviously be closer than 19s in terms of cd for vendetta but still
marble elm
unless you have really high crit
cursive dagger
it'll probs be like 10 seconds till vendetta is up when i pop the trinket
but at least now i understand the idea
ember rover
The idea is to do 140k crits with Envenom 😄
Since you can prolly fit like 3-4 of those crits into a TB window.
white basalt
did they change something with using azsharas font of power prepull? it keeps taking me out of stealth
running subterfuge
fallow otter
"fixed" i guess
fallow otter
i dunno, i dont run sub so its always knocked me out
cursive dagger
@ember rover Is it risky having coral macro'd into vendetta since there is a chance that your coral may not be off cd when you pop vendetta?
ember rover
Just press vendetta again.
cursive dagger
fair play
ember rover
Make sure you have a weak aura set up to actually see if you have coral up tho.
hearty arch
when do i use font?
low junco
@rapid aurora as for azerite or overall gear
cursive dagger
yeah i do
low junco
??
rapid aurora
?
fringe oxide
So, does anyone run poen's gloves in the raid?
For some reason my sim shows they're a 2 THOUSAND dps loss over my 435 gloves... which seems like a bug to me.
arctic walrus
Do you have it checked as in naz
fringe oxide
Yes, and I've tried it with both the target_race=abberation flag there and not there.
shy geode
i use them and they sim really good as well
fringe oxide
Just in case there's some weird bug with that, even though it's not an abberation specific thing.
Just trying to figure out what's happening.
shy geode
link me the sim
fallow otter
^
woeful minnow
upgraded unsocketed benthic 
honest needle
can some 1 look at my logs to help me
last expansion i was parsing 90+ now im sucking
can some 1 look at my logs for me
fringe oxide
Oh trust me, that wasn't without several tries otherwise. Eventually you just need to equip a 420.
honest needle
and tell me what i did wrong
rapid aurora
@fallow otter i only have scent of blood left so should i keep undulating tides or go for scent
fringe oxide
Haha, OH.
fallow otter
intellect not our best stat
fringe oxide
I pulled those from wowhead since I don't actually have them upgraded.
woeful minnow
LUL
fringe oxide
At long last, the universe makes sense again.
fallow otter
ikr haha
true pelican
seems like int was required here though
fallow otter
@rapid aurora tbh i dont know, for cleave fights its a no brainer i'd assume for scent but if you can keep it from proccing UT is going to be better for dmg but most of the time you are not going to be able to stop it proccing - i would prolbably use scent but i wouldnt be happy about it
split grail
Is there a haste cap? I have no idea when I should start enchanting for crit over haste
river zinc
@tropic ocean thanks man that opening helped me get a 90 parse on Mythic Sivara..feels good
sour wraith
@split grail sim yourself
white basalt
I know its been asked a million types but how exactly is the best way to use font and coral?
checked pins etc
shy geode
@white basalt i use font 14s b4 vendetta, that way you have it for the full duration of vendetta and 14s of coral as well. first font is at 6s of pulltimer for me and first coral when ever its ready
fallow otter
this slightly changed for min maxing @shy geode
now you want 20s before vend, coz sims are saying full duration coral>font
with the 10s glory window
😃
shy geode
yeah im doing that.. but i value if out whenever i get many stacks
fallow otter
like @shy dust said
shy geode
@fallow otter also the glory window should be 14s with that as well since the cd starts whenever you start channeling but you get the 30s on last tick of font
fallow otter
im talking about the toxic blade window being inside this 14s window
but yeh
you get the idea
full blown glory window haha
its 9s tho right
shy geode
the tb window is, yes
fallow otter
you read whats in #tc-updates latest?
strange python
What are best essences for assa M+?
shy geode
@fallow otter yeah, thats exactly what i said earlier tho?
fleet whale
it actually isn't as annoying as i thought it would be cause of how coral works
split grail
I still don't get coral /shrug
fleet whale
using it with normal font with a socket atm
fallow otter
@shy geode you said 14seconds, this is saying to give it 20seconds now - i used to do 14ish seconds before
i would be using coral post MA and vanish etc
but this is saying to use it for MA
assuming your gear doesn't have you cap crit i expect
shy geode
@fallow otter last post says "Font when ready again at 1:56, Vendetta before next TB around 2:10" for me or? that would be 14s
arctic walrus
6 chances at zaqul helm so far and nothing 
white basalt
So basically i use coral on vendetta, and right as vendetta ends?
so after the the first vendetta, i build as many stacks as possible and pop it for 2nd vendetta?
fallow otter
mmmmmm now im confused maybe its for blood3 only - scroll up and you see night and adrian discussing
not long ago
honest needle
Id appreciate if some 1 can take a look at my logs
fallow otter
post one
strange python
Hm. Unhelpful discord.
distant lava
I'm sorry ?
guys we didn't answer his question in the 10 mins since he asked it cause we don't really know the answer
we must be dickheads it's obvious
rapid aurora
@strange python use iris and lucid i think
ember pebble
how does the discord feel about using guardian of azeroth in the major slot?
ember pebble
does it have to be rank 3 to over take luscid?
old adder
civic palm
lol
daring imp
Hey guys i just got a font and razor coral and was wondering when should i use the razor coral i been using font 7 seconds before pull and then after that 7 seconds before cds come up when is a good time to fit in the coral? or do you give up on 1 font with cds and do coral with the second ven?
strange steeple
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
fallow otter
@daring imp head over to #tc-updates there is a nice blurb about it for ya
nimble tartan
Can another na guild please kill azshara ty
arctic walrus
I don't want to
white basalt
should i delay vendetta so i can use font 20s before so coral will be up?
fallow otter
i feel like this is the 3rd time you have asked
fresh heron
I know this is pretty basic shit, but when do yall refresh your garrote on target, I seem to be missing some and would like to know the optimal time.
white basalt
same topic,.. different question
seems like using font super early prepull is good because shit lines up better rest of fight
normal shale
What's benthic lottery order? I got boots with socket
fallow otter
ill delay vend to utilize font during lust
rather than wasting font on lust so it syncs later
benthic order is boots>bracers=tankbelt>gloves
but that is assuming your other gear is all equal
normal shale
Thanks
gusty summit
Is there a guide to coral usage somewhere
meager nebula
in the pins
hasty brook
Does the Orgozoa on heroic get you guys out of stealth? Feels like the moment it gets pulled I git hit out of stealth.
peak saffron
so just pop it with your first vendetta then just sit on stacks until your 2nd vendetta? there's no special number of stacks?
@meager nebula
nimble tinsel
Do threat redirection spells stack? (Multiple Tricks/MD onto a single target)
devout bone
unbridled fury vs. Agi pot?
drifting cloud
@hasty brook yes its an issue on that boss only, even on mythic
meager nebula
@peak saffron not that im aware of
peak saffron
thanks
desert vault
so basically no point in trying to be good until I get r3 on clf and such right? cause that sim is painfully bad 😦
and hopefully roll a decent 445 chest next week would be nice as well
upper meteor
SS rogues - do you delay your vend for vanish on second use of cooldowns?
meager nebula
you have no benthic
fleet whale
get font and your sim will go up a lot
meager nebula
which is a lot
fleet whale
and no benthic
fleet whale
i got a normal font and a heroic coral very recently
brought my sim up by like 3k
while my ilvl didn't even go up much at all
as for benthic get boots as bare minimum
desert vault
I only have two benthic with socket. Still rolling on bracers. My 440 socket waist is beating socket benthic waist
I have boots still 385 though need to get them upgraded
Maybe not worry as much on bracers so I got 445s tonight crit/haste
fleet whale
get boots up
drifting cloud
they are still alot worse than benthic
desert vault
Does waist work on every boss? Or just zaqul and one other?
drifting cloud
thats why you have 2 belts
you need the other one, the aberration one is nice sure, but its not a make or break
fleet whale
i personally just run with benthic boots cause i could give 0 f#@$s about the other pieces and i don't play at a high enough level to do the lottery all the time
desert vault
Oh ok didnt know there was a second great more.freaking pearl farming ...
fleet whale
nice
fleet whale
that's how this tier is gonna work
granite rampart
benthic
granite rampart
"item level should always be an upgrade"
fleet whale
primary stats are always gonna be king....
LOL
blizz screwed up stat scaling so badly this expansion
chilly marsh
they cant even follow what they say
i really wish someone at blizzcon would call they aout about it
fleet whale
blizz screwed up by increasing our primaries by way too much each tier
chilly marsh
just like the april joke with diablo last year
fleet whale
while not increasing secondaries enough
plus azerite pieces should have secondary stats on them imo
granite rampart
yeah they did that on purpose. in legion an identical piece 15 item levels apart had 6% more secondary stats. in bfa that same piece 15 item levels apart only has 1% more secondary stats, but they kept sockets comparatively as strong as legion.
fleet whale
it's stupid design
granite rampart
agreed
fleet whale
the legion design was better
chilly marsh
plis no.. just imagine needing a bis azerite with right stats and traints
fleet whale
just have it so helm gives crit, chest mastery, and shoulders haste
so it's static all the time
hasty brook
@drifting cloud that sucks. Messes with me lol
drifting cloud
@granite rampart thats just wrong
fleet whale
i actually went on ptr and "rezzed" a deleted version of my main who was at like 381 ilvl
the difference of total secondaries compared to my main at 429 was stunningly small
drifting cloud
I have the same pants 430 and 445, 430 has 290 secondary stats, 445 has 305
thats definetly not 1%
its just sockets and main stat scaling like poop
because I definetly remember a time where agi wasnt even my worst stat, let alone worst by x2 factor
fleet whale
yeah, back in like uldir
granite rampart
maybe my %s were wrong but they def did nerf the % increases of secondary stats from item level
fleet whale
but problem is that primaries increased way more than secondaries this expansion
hence why primary values are tanking
granite rampart
yea.
fleet whale
my rogue in normal EN gear could have 30% crit no problem\
drifting cloud
I mean that was intended
in earlier xpacs specs like fire mage were just unplayable at the start
and then they became bis for last tier
rare pond
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
drifting cloud
I dont remember exact stats for like Uldir but its not like we were running around with 15% crit lol
granite rampart
stats in uldir were inflated by reorigination array
drifting cloud
1 stat and for assa it was always haste
stable plinth
after you kill the first echo, are you forcing yourself out or just rotting out? @marble elm
marble elm
waiting for the summoner cast and then stand in floor tendie @stable plinth
rare pond
Can someone give me a rundown on sin rotation? The guide just has a long-ass list of abilities
final river
Guys, somebody can Help me with coral+Azshara trinket? I dont know How use efficiently
cloud raven
does anyone know what "Master Assassin talented the new way" means?
strange python
What’s the condensed life force opener?
harsh sphinx
@final river check #tc-updates
light grove
does coral snap wit vendetta, how come everyones using it at 17 secs
final river
Ty guys
fallow otter
@cloud raven where did you read this?
amber arrow
does toxic blade increase ink damage?
drifting cloud
nope
cloud raven
@fallow otter it's on the ravenholdt assassination guide down at the opener section
rigid mango
If it's just going mut rup mut g instead of g mut rup, very small gain
rare pond
so, sorry to repeat, can anyone give me a simplified rundown of the rotation? After opener, I have rupture up, vanish is on CD, garrote has fallen off, do I just toxic blade on cooldown and spam envenom until I have to refresh rup?
meager nebula
pool energy for tb windows
meager nebula
don't overcap, but you don't burn all your energy
you want to aim for about 3 envenoms during your tb window
drifting cloud
atleast 2, you wont always get 3
civic palm
Not with that attitude!!
drifting cloud
meager nebula
3 or bust
light grove
can anyone explain the coral trinket
civic palm
No but
fallow otter
you lost me @ garrote has fallen off
civic palm
🚑
icy ember
well last week i had mantle of fastidious machinations, DE'd that POS, this week I got the venture co vest, sort of better, i guess.. 600dps gained over spymaster's 415
next time gonna roll the shoulder piece as its the last 415 i have
fallow otter
better than joining the blighted tribe
dull osprey
looking at a guide made by a rogue in method (source: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue/playstyle-and-rotation) and his opener is way different than the one in the pins. Which is out of date or is ir more along the lines of personal preference?
(nb4 8.1.5 guide)
drifting cloud
both are fine
technically mut rupt mut is better
but the difference is almost nothing
and alot of people are just used to the old one
dull osprey
okay cool. I was trying his and was only getting 2 envenoms in TB window by the time I got through it and was confused
fallow otter
i use the same opener as perfectos MA opener
dull osprey
do you get 2 or 3 env in TB window?
robust ivy
Would anyone mind looking over my logs real quick on M ashvane? I have been looking over logs for a while now and cant seem to put my head around why my dps just feels so low.
dull osprey
nvm, I was just bad @fallow otter
bleak spoke
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/grYqFvdypfncCwXJy14SuF i'm a real boy now
bleak spoke
yeah idk man
with full mastery gem set too
so you'd think but it's not actually better lmao
meager sparrow
k quick question probley alreadyt answerd it but that major and minnor trate do i use for assassination?
shy dust
Isn’t that within margin of error?
drifting cloud
yeah but those have always been super close
atleast when I simmed it
wait he has 0 np, actually nevermind
drifting cloud
rigid mango
It's the first one getting out valued by bbi
fallow otter
@bleak spoke you simmed zero loyal til the end friends
rigid mango
@bleak spoke don't be dumb in spec channels pls
dull osprey
crit and mast are about the same right?
rigid mango
Depends on your own char
dull osprey
fair\
rare pond
so are weapon enchants usually haste/vers?
icy ember
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2FxuH8GeFBsuTdFPG1Syzk so unstable catalyst sims higher, but i dont use it, scent of blood is what I use, even tho it sims as 400dps higher
is that a good idea?
icy ember
well ya, thats what im asking, I suppose that the catalyst requires you to be in a specific spot
but IDK, i just got the piece today, i haven't tried catalyst out yet
what is the AoE range on the ground? is it that glowy orange crap
dull osprey
Do you guys play on low graphics to see ground indicators better?
balmy quest
yeah it literally looks like a puddle of azerite that buffs you while you stand in it
dull osprey
Like boss mechanics
fallow otter
ive changed settings to be lower on fights like jaina but thats about it
just for better blizzard visibility
icy ember
i personally run 1440p w/980ti and 6700k on LOW settings in raids, low everything, and can maintain 60+fps
dull osprey
I find myself losing track of some mechanic indicators in particle effects of spells and such and was wondering if thats a common thing or if I'm just not being attentive enough
fps isn't an issue
opal meadow
rigid mango
Nop
raven locust
Pretty sure you can cloak it though
rigid mango
Yep
vagrant urchin
thx
rigid mango
Font + coral is the best
zenith yarrow
how do you use them? since you can't use them both at the same time
arctic walrus
rigid mango
Pins / #tc-updates
arctic walrus
Good luck EU people on your loots
scarlet sequoia
thanks!
lament dove
thanks
now that I got a benthic boots at last, I'm fairly certain what's it gonna be
civic palm
Apply them :3
marble elm
arctic walrus
Looking good in that selfie night
civic palm
o _o
lime path
Using subterfuge and shrouded suffocation, when you do the standard opener, you're getting 6 combo points and 23.4 seconds of fully empowered garrote, which is why I've been letting them tick out completely before vanish garrotingx2 again, to get another 23.4s of fully empowered garrotes and another 6 cps.
I'm now being told that I shouldn't be doing that and that I should just vanish to refresh the opening garrote at pandemic, which would lose out on 3 combo points and 5.4 seconds of full empowerment.
Is my math off? What am I missing?
civic palm
If you are dealing with Empowered Garrotes you do not refresh them you let them drop entirely.
lime path
That's my initial assumption, but I'm being told otherwise right now and I wanted to confirm the math.
civic palm
Refreshing an Empowered Garrote in any fashion loses at least the rollover tick from the influence of Haste.
lime path
that too
civic palm
But technically if you refresh an Empowered Garrote with another Empowered Garrote and do it within the Pandemic window you shouldn't lose any time.
You just lose the rollover tick.
inner tundra
does Vendetta Buff Focusing Eye Iris?
lime path
I'm confused as to how you don't lose any time. You're losing 5.4s, rollover tick aside
civic palm
You wouldn't if you are only refreshing during pandemic with ONE Garrote.
as the time is added as normal, if you do doubles you lose the 5.4 seconds.
lime path
assuming you hit it right on the pandemic marker perfectly, you're adding another 18s, instead of adding 23.4 by letting it tick out.
civic palm
If you are refreshing outside the opener, you want to do;
attack > garrote > garrote
or
garrote > attack > garrote
You're only ever adding 5.4 seconds to any duration of Garrote.
Again, in the Opener, you let it tick off, middle of combat you do doubles as there's no other way to get that empowerment.
Pandemic is 30% max duration + base duration.
aka 130% baseline duration.
inner tundra
does Vendetta Buff Focusing Iris damage?
marble elm
no
civic palm
lime path
Yes, I know that, I've played feral for a decade, lol. But I'm still not seeing how refreshing a subterfuged garrote at pandemic with another subterfuged garrote isn't a loss compared to just letting it tick out.
civic palm
Look @ the liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiist
marble elm
Vendetta or toxic blade are both whitelisted abilities and do not buff trinkets or essences
civic palm
That's because you DO let it tick out > _>"
arctic walrus
Did you reclear night
civic palm
You don't refresh Empowered Garrotes outside the initial application.
civic palm
and any additional Garrote on that target outside of stealth removes the SUB/SS empowerment.
Just in case that wasn't clear/obvious*
lime path
Right, which is what I've been doing. I'm just confused by the "fi you refresh an Empowered Garrote with another Empowered Garrote and do it within the Pandemic window you shouldn't lose any time." remark, because it seems that you would.
which is why we let them tick out entirely
which is what I've been doing
civic palm
Then you're all good 👍
civic palm
The comment you quoted was in regards to the initial application.
arctic walrus
It took us 19 pulls which honestly was a big yikes
civic palm
Apologies.
marble elm
We only did like 6 pulls
lime path
oh right of course on the initial opener, you do it to max out, I thought you meant after the garrote rupture garrote opener, you let it tick down to 5.4s and then vanish reapply
which was confusing me
marble elm
Unfortunately struggled on a different boss
civic palm
Also applies to NORMAL Garrotes being refreshed with an EMPOWERED Garrote.
Which is what I think I was trying to say there O _O
lime path
if the CP gain is truly negligible as you claim, then yeah the stronger one overwrites the weaker one and you can just do it at pandemic
no argument there
civic palm
Either way you do doubles outside of the opener and hitting the window or not does not matter.
But this is also why I structured the refresh the way I did.
arctic walrus
Azshara going good for you guys too?
civic palm
FINISHER > GARROTE > GARROTE
or
GARROTE > FINISHER > GARROTE
marble elm
Good enough
civic palm
as so long you are casting the two Garrotes you are getting maximum time, and you might go into Vanish with who knows how many CP.
marble elm
Only had like a day or so and we’re getting past first decrees and somewhat dealing with the dispels pretty consistently
lime path
I'll hold the vanish for a second or two if I have to
it's a 2min CD, as long as I don't miss a usage in a fight, I an afford to hold it a second or two if needed
provided I know my rough kill times
it's unlikely that delaying a second or two will hurt me
marble elm
Garrote x garrote is technically better I’m pretty sure but it’s going to be negligible
Than x g g or g g x
civic palm
I think it's entirely marginal.
lime path
it's extremely marginal lol
civic palm
But using your CP better feels better and ending with Garrote leads to better haste breakpoints in case you have BL during it.
lime path
but, these are habits from playing feral for a decade where I needed every marginal gain under the sun to try and be relevant
but alas, rogue life now
civic palm
Feral is fine > _>"
lime path
Not anymore lol
The difficulty is gone
It's actually much more user friendly now that bleeds are uniform dmg per CP increases just like rogues
but that also meant I may as well have swapped and enjoyed all the perks and privileges of being a yellowboi
thanks for the clarification mizerok
gnight all
civic palm
👍
woven elm
Someone has good WA's for Assasination? 😃
rigid mango
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
civic palm
ihearthattopguyisprettyneat
shadow zealot
what essence u guys running for raiding
faint sand
hey guys can anybody confirm that this sim its the top dps that i have?
i have my doubts about the traits
for a mythic raid boss
i mean
i did the changes
and ran a sim
and i got lower dps
like 320ish
bold whale
Why u run SUBT and not MA?
winter moss
winter moss
rogue or simming
harsh sphinx
has the 445 radiance shoulder's as well
solid nova
Weekly vs Nightly
harsh sphinx
should find out if people in your raid are using loyal to the end
faint sand
it would be better the rav setup for a mythic boss fight right?
oh ok will do
tyvm, i really apreciate your help
harsh sphinx
if 3 or 4 are using it i'd try it out https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2Rnt5pjyLeX1QoouT9qnRf
winter moss
not to bad for m+ tho
fallow otter
welcome to the blighted tribe @strange python
nimble tartan
im a 2x blighted triber
fallow otter
@mystic talon settle down, dont give us too much information
heavy saddle
Just wondering , is Sin competitive at all in M+? Or is outlaw just too good
strange python
Sin is competetive, Outlaw IS better but that doesn't make sin bad
fallow otter
@strange python mine turned straight into 10k TR coz i Outlaw for m+
@nimble tartan noooooooooooo 2x, already got good helm/shoulders? coz behe is easy
winter moss
@mystic talon if i check a log, and you dont utilize schemes at 100% is basically worthless
mystic talon
pumping
ill just get shoulders from squid
but gonna be fun playing this ghetto setup for sure
azure shoal
any 445 gorak tul's? 
strange python
I've currently got 445 Engi head, 435 Gorak Tul and 435 Cephalohide
so i am doing well enough...
fallow otter
@azure shoal got it this last week after joining the blighted tribe the first week
mystic talon
4 loyal 
lusty narwhal
faint harness
never gonna get it