Like the bwonsambi things we got from bod etc for crafting legs etc
#assassination
signal summit
empty tide
You need to complete the profession questline
Its the same for every profession so not that hard
signal summit
Ye But do i need specific Mats or can i do it in 1 day
cobalt pelican
you need 220 eternal ornaments and 75 pearls
which isn't obtainable in 1 reset
unless you're clearing mythic or something
you can craft the 430 ring or whatever in 1 day (20 ornaments, 75 pearls) assuming you have pearls and can kill 2 heroic bosses of the raid
rigid mango
How fast can you make it?
And do the ornaments work like reliquaries in the sense that if you get on hc you get normal too or smth?
cobalt pelican
ornaments are just the same as breaths from last tier except they don't consume upon craft, you just need 20 then 200 to unlock all of the crafts
1 per normal boss, 10 per heroic
so you just go: hand in 75 pearls for crafting bench, join heroic raid kill 2 bosses, hand in 20 ornaments craft 415, scrap, craft 430 or whatever
if you do hc you don't get like 11 though you just get 10
rigid mango
Can you get even if you're locked?
fleet whale
wait where is this crafting bench?
rigid mango
rigid mango
So I can't do the pearl shit and rerun hc this week
cobalt pelican
in nazjatar where you spawn
rigid mango
For ornaments
cobalt pelican
i'm not actually 100% sure if you've not claimed the ornaments for the week
i thought you meant to farm it
i imagine you MIGHT be able to loot ornaments even if you're lootlocked?
rigid mango
Nah, I mean just grt my weekly amount
cobalt pelican
but i have no idea
fleet whale
so i can use that to get the gems to make a 430 ring?
cobalt pelican
no you need to pay a million dollars for the gems
cobalt pelican
i think everyone except stubborn ppl or rich ppl gave up on the ring crafts
rigid mango
How many ornaments for mythic bosses?
cobalt pelican
20? i think
rigid mango
Aight so it'd take minimum 2 resets
fleet whale
i would drop JC but one of my rings is a 415 JC ring... and i don't have another to replace it
rigid mango
fleet whale
you need to be a jc to use jc rings
rigid mango
I know, just an awk situation to be in
cobalt pelican
i was in that situation
and just took the L
and farmed some dungeons after dropping it
now i have like 5 holed 430 rings
fleet whale
and of course it has a socket so it makes it like a million ilvls bettter
rigid mango
5 holed 
fleet whale
actually it might not be too hard to replace cause that stats aren't that great
high haste low vers
austere ruin
how do u guys manage coral and font together on ur second vendetta in your rotation?
sweet flame
your font should be like almost 10 second offset from vendetta right
so you font, vendetta, coral in the last half
rigid mango
It's in #tc-research
austere ruin
thx
solid nova
I'm home tomorrow ill pin something nice for it
bleak spoke
when you open with m r m g and you end with 5 cp, why isn't it accurate to do v env m tb
are there syncing problems with bleeds/toxic blade later in the rotation or something?
topaz trout
1 -2 cp wont make up for the loss of damage from those globals
its to preserve your vendetta window
bleak spoke
you don't lose any vendettas or tbs doing this
rigid mango
I don't think it should
bleak spoke
seems like there's no downside to this
bleak spoke
you don't miss any envenoms
rigid mango
I'd talk to mystler/koji about it
bleak spoke
cuz you're E capped
rigid mango
If I were you
bleak spoke
@marble hemlock help me dad
rigid mango
They're the people that'd give accurate answers
marble hemlock
you got me confused with @ruby idol
bleak spoke
no
brave fable
What traits are you all aiming for in M+? I have these available and my sim says: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6GBfQ8aP3EQQ5FjEm4RTSt -- is this accurate?
woeful minnow
ss/eb/ttk
bleak spoke
i just don't see why the play ins't to get out an envenom asap to enable your dd
bleak spoke
if you're already E capped
so like in an ideal world it's like m r m g and you're at 5, then v, env, m and i'm assuming if you get 2 cp from m you van and tb
otherwise you tb then van
bleak spoke
Obviously this is from double 4 point mutis to start
But with our current crit rating it doesn’t seem unlikely
rigid mango
Agreed
bleak spoke
Like if you get a three point muti in the rotation you just bridge garrote and play the old rotation right
rigid mango
I can see it being a possible gain, but like I said, compile into a post and send it in tc and see if they can find out
empty tide
Imo, its no worth it to risk not critting the double envenom, which is like 120k each
vast forum
tb is worth casting at 5cp tho
if you're at 5cp and TB is off cd, you TB, not finish to prevent overcapping
vast forum
you lose 2 sec of TB CD
bleak spoke
you just gain some buffed mutis
bleak spoke
i mean theoretically you can lose up to ~8 seconds of tb cd and b okay
vast forum
i personally value 50% bonus crit on a 4cp env more than 1 tick of rupture and 7 energy
rigid mango
For the m e m's
vast forum
i do it all the time and it seems good
but idk if it's a gain on average
so i don't advise following my feelycraft without any evidence to support it
rigid mango
bleak spoke
hmm i feel kinda starved doing that
vast forum
if u lust on pull there's no way to starve doing that
bleak spoke
well yeah
vast forum
but i've been doing it even without lust on pull and i didn't feel starving
bleak spoke
actually in lust that's probably accurate yeah
pale crane
Hey folks, starting ashvane mythic tomorrow. Any special tipps & tricks? We, like most raids, gonna use lust at around 6min. Vendetta at start? After first shield?
vast forum
depends on your grp, we had our rogues save vend for when shield is down
do what your leader tells you to do
if you want to skip 2nd bubbles in p1, you might want to commit some CDs there, if you think your healers have you covered, save all cds for when shield is ded
pale crane
It feels useless to dot bubbles up. Is it worth? Only a fok?
topaz trout
your group will kill bubbles before you do
vast forum
once again, depends on your grp
empty tide
One rupture to get energy
vast forum
our group had very little burst aoe
so i tried 1-2 foks to put up deadly and 1 rupture
topaz trout
if its slow, you can mut rup all day on each one
but i mean, you're prob better on the boss
teal trench
Is the dps from simming the max burst of sustained?
pale crane
OK, great!
Which essence would be best? Sims tell me the energy regen one is best, forgot the name...
rigid mango
Rupture on each one sounds really bad
topaz trout
it is lol
rigid mango
Lucid, but best is clf/blood + lucid
empty tide
Usually you do one rupture and env the others
rigid mango
Granted both have to be r3
empty tide
If theyre still up
fleet whale
what i want to try someday, when everything is on farm, is this essence build:
fleet whale
Ripple in space major, VoP minor, Unbound force minor
it will be called trash tier essence build
rigid mango
Sounds horrible
pale crane
Why do sims tell me, lucid is best? simmed all with rank 3
empty tide
I mean, the more you keep the guys on the bubbles, lesa dps your raid does , your boss dps doesnt make up for it
Just get as many dmg as you can to help friends
teal trench
So is it best to have Lucid in the majour slot?
rigid mango
Odds are your haste is in the gutter
Oooor you're simming wv minor
Which isn't a realistic sim in any way
pale crane
Yeah, with worldveins as second... Not up all the time? During raids?
empty tide
I think the only good worldvein fights is mythic azshara tbh
cobalt pelican
saying you can lose up to 8 seconds on tb isn't really accurate
cobalt pelican
like changing the opener to that is probably so negligible and on a set % of iterations you'll miss a tb even with the apl pressing it the milisecond it comes up
rose sequoia
is potion of unbridled fury still way to go for st
rigid mango
Yep
fleet whale
so when we are all at level 65, what essence set up will you guys run for raids? CLF major, Lucid Minor, Iris minor? maybe world vein minor?
rigid mango
Crucible minor
empty tide
lucid with iris should be overcap
rigid mango
Is what I think it's gonna be, off the top of my head, without any facts to prove it
empty tide
lucid crucible should be the way to go
fleet whale
yeah, crucible rank three is nice
also, i don't have CLF rank three yet, but when do you activate on opener?
empty tide
on CD
fleet whale
oh nvm
empty tide
CLF doenst take any dmg buffers
fleet whale
i see it on the pins
hasty brook
Hey all, I know I could SIM it and I have but I am not liking this Lucid dream + [Worldvein Resonance] combo it suggest. All my stuff is rank 1 but for raids what have you guys felt was better for major and minor
rigid mango
Lucid + iris works at those low levels
hasty brook
I do have iris rank 2
rigid mango
You should really be looking at r3's though
hasty brook
Have not been on much so only have r1
rigid mango
Yeah then it wont matter much anyways, fuck about with whatever you like until you start to reach r2/3's, the diff will be small at only r1's
hasty brook
gotcha. Thanks man
rigid mango
Glgl
rigid mango
Unless it's your last piece, I wouldn't recommend spending on the last 5 ilvls
raw lotus
I have the belt, bracers gloves and now boots
but i need to upgrade the gloves and boots still
rigid mango
Human
crimson trellis
horde side*
rigid mango
Troll
crimson trellis
ok, ty
ruby idol
@bleak spoke @marble hemlock ??? whats happening!
whats the point of envenom before the tb? catch me up
bronze wagon
It is maghar
wet ruin
I noticed that sims are refreshing both garrote and rupture in a toxic blade window, so how big of a dps gain is to refresh them sooner
and why are sims not doing that
so at this point how am I sure that my stat weights are my actual stat weights and so on
ripe nimbus
refreshing bleeds early is a dps loss (wasted combo points) who ever told u to do that, is wrong.
fleet whale
he didn't say refreshing bleeds early, he's talking about refreshing them during a tb window
presumably because they are both about to drop
ripe nimbus
if u refresh them earlier before TB and they are not in pandemic thats refreshing bleeds early???
or am i miss reading what hes saying
fleet whale
i thought he was saying refreshing inside tb, like the debuff is already on the target
dark crag
he said the sim apl refreshed bleeds inside tb window and asked if refreshing them before tb window would be a gain
fleet whale
oh i didn't read the second part
wet ruin
yes, what Luhmi said, I see so many people here saying that refreshing them early would be a dps gain, so you don't have to refresh them in tb window
so if that is not true, then the next question arises
if you see you would have to refresh bleeds during tb
do you delay tb so you can refresh outside tb, and then go into tb window
or just use tb and refresh them during tb regardless
rigid mango
You do neither, you reapply early without care of pandemic and pool properly
wet ruin
we were just discussing this, some people say that is the right way, some say its a loss
the sim is not refreshing early, but rather refreshing during tb
ripe nimbus
you do not reapply rupture early, ur wasting combo points refreshing early
fleet whale
People really overthink this whole thing imo
rigid mango
You do if it means not delaying tb and losing env inside of tb
ripe nimbus
no you still dont
fleet whale
Just see what people are doing in top logs, your never going to play exactly how the sim plays ability by ability anyway
wet ruin
yea, I know that, but the sims should be in a perfect scenario, no movement, etc, thats why I got interested by it
true pelican
pretty sure it's been tested before and you never refresh dots early, sometimes you just have to refresh dots during tb
fleet whale
and here we go again lol
dapper plover
so is it worth to refresh during tb
civic palm
Compared to?
wet ruin
just read 5 comments above
civic palm
ima need more information
wet ruin
its refreshing during tb or refreshing early, before pandemic
civic palm
of TTK traits, crit rates, vers rates, item level, etc.
If we're going to talk about asinine DPS gains we're going to talk about asinine margins.
Mastery is probably an even smaller factor > _>"
ripe nimbus
well reapplying rupture early wasting combo points isnt a DPS gain, soooo.
turbid zealot
hello guys can you help me out i have some logs and i want to know what im doing wrong in the fights i didint die https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/j3ZRLa7CcXw6yBV8
civic palm
How much of a waste/gain?
Without numbers that's an assumption as to the average value of those two spells.
How many Envenoms do you expect to lose?
?!
okay then
empty crescent
That was me my bad
fleet whale
you have to remember rng plays a factor in all of this too
empty crescent
Is there a guide on how to start simming?
marble elm
pretty sure its just extremely minimal
civic palm
Extremely.
As in, whether it's better to refresh Rupture before a Burst window while @ 2CP, minimal.
opal oyster
RaidBots isn't suggesting NP, is it ok to roll without 1 NP for ST?
civic palm
Same tiny margin in whether or not it's a gain/loss.
We're just sure it's worse to let Bleeds/Poison drop.
marble elm
yea its definitely extremely extremely small
civic palm
and since the CP scaling change for Rupture you're more flexible, so don't feel the need to ALWAYS finish on 4+, you're not an Outlaw.
marble elm
if u do it every single time maybe it might be slightly more than extremely small
tbh
u just have to use ur thinker
civic palm
You shouldn't have to every time, but yeah.
Use your noodle.
There are dozens of tiny margins for Assassination, just disregard them and follow best practices.
Some of them that have no answer because they're stupid.
nimble tartan
The only timer that matters is how much time you spend with your loved ones
ty for listening
dark crag
To apply bleeds or not to apply bleeds in tb that is the question
For sub it is a gain with nv
dense blaze
Go for it that’s what I say
dark crag
Why is tb cd 25 sec, why not 30 sec with 10 sec duration?
civic palm
Because that would line things up too well.
These little speed bumps in cooldown and duration add texture to the spec.
tribal marlin
if you plan ahead correctly, applying rupture during TB is barely happening
tribal marlin
it's probably not a loss to do a 5cp envenom in TB and quickly refresh rupture with 3cp after but I don't think it's a relevant win either
civic palm
Not at all.
dark crag
Doesn't it already start with the opener to get wacky?
civic palm
Again, tiny margins of meaningless DPS.
dark crag
What even is the right opener with clf instead of blood
tribal marlin
I mean as long as you don't loose rupture uptime, like if there remains 8sec on rupture it's probably ok to do a last evenom inside TB and then apply 3cp rupture but as you said, margin.
civic palm
CLF before Vendetta somewhere.
Where doesn't matter.
If it stacked in such a way that you're not capped on stacks very easily it would matter more, but that's still a tiny margin.
dark crag
Is it m r m g clf ven tb van env?
civic palm
or if Rocky itself scaled, it would matter.
or before G, doubt it matters.
or after Rupture, very much doubt it matters at that point.
It's not enough time to desync later on.
dark crag
Needed 60k dps today to beat nythendra mythic solo
weary tulip
is the sin guide still good
civic palm
yes
weary tulip
thanks
civic palm
Check the Discord Pins in this channel for updates.
weary tulip
for double dose do i just pool my energy
tribal marlin
I'm done playing MA, I just run subter and vanish somwhere in vendetta to apply empower garrote
feels better
civic palm
lol
weary tulip
but sims less
dark crag
Heresy
weary tulip
no?
civic palm
Sims the same really.
civic palm
easy gains on something like Zaq though.
dark crag
Next reset i go spin to win at zaqul hc
civic palm
forces myself into delerium 
fleet whale
i wish MA had a duration of 5 seconds and gave 100% crit
civic palm
w u t
dark crag
Kidney the fire mage before you get a dot
civic palm
I too, wish MA was dramatically better than it is now.
tribal marlin
Actually I run Subter because I'm tired of switching talent between boss so we clean faster 😄
civic palm
Blind that Fire fucker
dark crag
I was once alone in delirium with lp and it was beatiful
dark crag
Sub uses ns
nimble vale
Is sin the best 1v1 spec?
civic palm
#pvp 👈
Unless you're trying to solo a raid or dungeon or leveling > _>"
or doing World Quests... I suppose.
nimble vale
What’s rp and liw?
nimble vale
More op than will of valeera LEGO?
dark crag
Around 4 to 5k hp per sec
nimble vale
Dang nice.
wispy chasm
is there a correct way of using font of power? is it just whenever its up and before cds
cold rampart
yes @true nexus
true nexus
ty
devout temple
Now that the dust has settled, which is better in m+ outlaw or sin
granite rampart
still outlaw 
devout temple
Lame
granite rampart
not even just the damage. having gouge and consistent stuns is really huge. hoping one day they bring gouge back to all specs.
river zinc
what potions do you guys use in raid? Superior agi or unbridled?
granite rampart
ubridled usually.
vapid scarab
gouge would be broken in pvp if they brought it back for every spec
why does every spec have to have the exact same tools, there's a reason to play different things now and there's a reason they moved away from that in the first place
granite rampart
idk, i mean outlaw has 1:30 blind, gouge, and cdr on stun and still isnt good in pvp.
vapid scarab
and assa has none of that and is still great in pvp
midnight flower
A question about m+ turned into pvp
civic palm
vapid scarab
no, a comment about gouge being added to all specs turned into a conversation about why that's a terrible idea
fleet whale
it was like that pre legion and everything was fine...
vapid scarab
metas change
vapid scarab
every other class has had stuff changed to
you have to rebalance the entire pvp scene if you want gouge
midnight flower
@devout temple I find myself wanting to play outlaw in m+ over sin for the fact I raid as sin and having two specs for me is a lot more fun when playing my rogue
fleet whale
i know, but the prune has not been good for the game, even ion has admitted it
civic palm
Seems fine really.
midnight flower
Lul at thinking gouge would break pvp as if pvp in wow isn’t already
Classic is for pvp.
vapid scarab
yeah so fuck it let's just break it even more
fleet whale
There's a reason why many herald MoP as the peak of wow design, even with a lot of overlap of abilities
granite rampart
having an extra cc that DRs with blind wouldnt be that op. it wouldnt be more op than subterfuge already is
fleet whale
and even so... sin was or any of the other rogue specs were not that op at all when they all had gouge, garrote etc
vapid scarab
I'm just sharing my opinion why gouge for all specs would be a stupid idea
midnight flower
A guy asked if sin or outlaw is better and you went off the deep end
I find that funny but I must go now. Have fun with what ever you argue about
vapid scarab
no, a guy said gouge should be added for all specs and I corrected him
granite rampart
they should add gouge back to all specs. just like they should add a lot of abilities back to a lot of specs.
fleet whale
well, it probably should, but i guess we'll save the whole pruning vs no pruning thing when the next expac is announced
granite rampart
yeah. im assuming next xpac will have a lot of class design overhaul. since in recent dev QnAs theyve admitted theyve gone too far with pruning, and the biggest downfall of bfa is class design in general.
vapid scarab
I never argued against that, and I even agree with that. But simply adding gouge and changing nothing else would not be balanced for the game
fleet whale
well, yeah, hence why other classes need change too
vapid scarab
which was not mentioned originally
fleet whale
but once again, we'll save all of this up for when we actually have info on the next expac
for now, we just work with we got
so what if, sometime during this expac, venom rush becomes the best talent
vapid scarab
at least TB doesn't get parried on pull while tanks pepega boss around
civic palm
So what if, something during this expansion, they just remove Rogues?
fleet whale
i've had tb get parried before... it's not a good feeling
vapid scarab
happens at least once a night on ashvane
now they just need to make vendetta parryable
DH blade dance vendetta GG
granite rampart
ashvanes hitbox is pretty pepega. have not seen a boss like her thats hitbox is so bad you can be standing almost directly behind her and still get parried.
vapid scarab
the amount of spinning and moving our tanks make her do doesn't help at all
granite rampart
same but its unfortunately necessary. since most strats involve stacking the barnacle bashes on top of each other, the boss has to go apeshit every time its about to drop one, because tanks have to run into old razor coral patches and then turn the boss back around to run out of it.
really annoying but what can you do
cobalt pelican
tell your tanks to die for the cause
granite rampart
theyd buff my loyal to the end too
unreal perch
any way really to use Vanish in the open world without breaking combat?
granite rampart
ive found that my nazjatar follower keeps me in combat
vapid scarab
have somebody in a party with you in combat with the dummy
granite rampart
long enough for a mob not to reset when trying to vanish
unreal perch
I was thinking for open world like rares and stuff
but you're definitely right about nazjatar, I've been unable to break combat more than I'd like because of the followers lol
low junco
no way i believe
its kinda stupid when u go on a dummy and ur details reset cuz u vanished and went out of combat
granite rampart
ive been able to use vanish for dps in nazjatar if youre super quick with your first gcd after vanish.
i feel that on the target dummies tho
unreal perch
agree
low junco
but @granite rampart is right
unreal perch
something something "vanish isn't meant to be a dps CD"
unreal perch
ya I ACCIDENTALY just did that on a rare and that's why I remembered to ask
low junco
i usually dont need to vanish for any rares i solo 
unreal perch
NEED is a strong word
"want to make it go that little bit faster" is more accurate
especially the "5 man" rares
low junco
i usually dont solo the 5 man ones
low junco
yeah i got u
unreal perch
they're real easy, but again I just like to make them fast as possible
granite rampart
not sure you can in original zones.
unreal perch
well, it was a nice dream
granite rampart
F
unreal perch
it's also instinct at this point. I'm so used to my opening rotation in raid fights I sometimes accidentally vanish on rares
onyx jay
What does pandemic refreshable mean?
Why should we refresh garrote at 5ish secs left on it?
Isn't it a waste of few ticks for that early few seconds?
unreal perch
it means if you refresh it, it doesn't delete a portion of that timer
cobalt pelican
all dots can have 30% of their length added to the next
unreal perch
it adds it on top of the new application. ya 30%
cobalt pelican
do some math, wow we did it
fleet whale
and it's called pandemic cause i believe it was a lock talent back in the day
unreal perch
it would feel REAL bad if you had to reapply right when things drop off
like, i doubt I'd play assassin if you HAD to right when it drops off. I definitely wouldn't wana play aff lock
onyx jay
Well im a 3.3.5 player and it used to be that way there
So i thought it's still the same
unreal perch
thankfully not
low junco
3.3.5 player
fleet whale
they made most if not all dots work like that now cause it is a great QoL improvement
unreal perch
there are definitely a few dots that don't have pandemic
onyx jay
Yup
unreal perch
but, they're mostly dots that don't matter
cobalt pelican
this spec in icc was actually residentsleep
low junco
damn i remember private servers
unreal perch
like they aren't a central class feature
fleet whale
have a feral druid to put on bleeds during ICC and it was GG for you
onyx jay
Assassination rocking whole wotlk , till icc and a lot of armor penetration , combat rekt assassins
Anyways , thanks for the help fellas
fleet whale
i think paragon had a sin rogue in their LK kill though
onyx jay
Oh btw , is rupture pandemic too?
low junco
yes
fleet whale
yes
onyx jay
Cool
low junco
garrote and rupture
inner leaf
hello boys
low junco
if u use weakauras the timers usually have different colors
inner leaf
is it worth using both coral and font?
together?
is there a play?
between both these trinkets
onyx jay
Font before pull I guess?
fleet whale
also i don't have font yet but does it break stealth?
low junco
for opener
onyx jay
And I assume extract coral crit on your 2nd vendetta
low junco
it does but u can go in stealth
inner leaf
it does
fleet whale
ah ok, that's why you start it 10 secs
inner leaf
you actually start like 6-5 seconds in
low junco
u go into stealth and pot like usual
inner leaf
cuz it takes 4 seconds
low junco
people use it at 10 cuz of the coral @inner leaf
he asked about coral/font
not just
font
i am sleepy
vapid scarab
@onyx jay every single debuff and buff in the game pandemics outside of very specific exceptions, which usually will tell you they do not
fleet whale
is anyone else glad that we actually have good trinkets to come out of a raid this expansion?
low junco
its kinda bad to have coral and 2nd active
i actually am amazed kinda @fleet whale
we dont have "bis" azerites from the whole raid
but we do have nice trinkets
fleet whale
the helm from zaq is good
vapid scarab
I mean not good
BiS
there isn't a better helm in the game
there are equal helms
fleet whale
yeah, none of the m+ helms have those exact traits
low junco
no but for example
vapid scarab
pvp helm is also bis
vapid scarab
welcome to most specs
fleet whale
i thought Waycrest shoulders were always bis though cause of OP, even though there are shoulders with NP and DD
vapid scarab
they are
pvp helm and zaquul are also bis because they have DD+NP+OP, even though other helms have DD+NP
low junco
tfw rn i actually use 2xtwist 2x dd 1x np and 1x loyal
cobalt pelican
the waycrest shoulders have np and dd
low junco
which is fine
cobalt pelican
:thonkyface:
low junco
but id rather use 3x dd
and change the twist to np so i can get blightborne on my shoulders
low junco
but at least i rock them 445 azerites
fleet whale
i also like how the first boss drops a dagger
fleet whale
though right now i'm set on weapons, got a 440 dagger from the chest and a 430 from freehold
at least for now anyway
vapid scarab
id actually enjoy bis azerite and full 455 socketed gear in every slot tbh
im weird i know
vapid scarab
i mean, at least you have shoulders
everything else you can get comparable from raid
low junco
i mean the head is fine aswell
sullen pagoda
humble bragging in this chat 
low junco
i dont brag
sullen pagoda
low junco
me :)
vapid scarab
does heroic count
low junco
i rock 2 azerites, 445 coral, socketed ashvane ring, azshara 430 gloves and the sivara dagger with socket
its still part of the raid man @vapid scarab
even tho its turbo ez
vapid scarab
great, 3 raid pieces then
arctic walrus
Anyone also get azerite other than Pistoleer's 2 weeks in a row
cobalt pelican
vel with an avatar
wutfac
maybe it's a sign you should play outlaw without sinister strike bound
low junco
that would be fun
low junco
one day @calm wedge
calm wedge
Lucky but poor :/
low junco
pepelaugh
calm wedge
Outlaw
low junco
outlaw :)
calm wedge
Iris ?
calm wedge
?
arctic walrus
Font btw
cobalt pelican
welcome to suffering
arctic walrus
Suffering is azshara prog
cobalt pelican
i guess so actually
fleet whale
i actually like iris
cobalt pelican
glad i'm world rank 7000 so i don't have to do that shit any time soon
low junco
i actually dont want to get close to azshara prog
but ill have to eventually
3 bosses til azshara 
fleet whale
just put it this way: nothing can ever be as bad as KJ prog
cobalt pelican
this week i got lay on handsed cause i started channeling my font in cutting coral
idk if alpha or not
low junco
the chad font vs the virgin coral
inner leaf
what is better in pvp medallion or badge?
low junco
sim
inner leaf
for burst
low junco
cobalt pelican
to actually raid with whichever is the equivalent to plumage is better generally
inner leaf
so like to sim? i just choose pw single target and 20 seconds?
inner leaf
what is better in pvp medallion or badge?
cobalt pelican
oh in pvp
low junco
oh
low junco
inner leaf
surprised pikachu face
cobalt pelican
the agility use one is more burst damage though
if you're not playing cyclo/safeguard or something you might aswell just be dead
placid dawn
guys, im saving cds on ashvane, should i pop coral at 1 min with vendetta or keep it for the 3 minute mark?
placid dawn
i mean of course
cobalt pelican
use it with the first one at 1min
inner leaf
so you pop everything right away
cobalt pelican
no real reason not to
placid dawn
but do i consume charges at 1 min or keep stacking
cobalt pelican
yaaa
low junco
i told my leader to not make me save cds
cobalt pelican
this week a dk got called out cause his guardian was in the ranged camp pumping
cobalt pelican
depends entirely on your guild
placid dawn
depends on raid lead man
placid dawn
i have to save cd, the question is, is it better to pop coral stacks on 1 min or save and pop on 3 mins
cobalt pelican
use it
inner leaf
on 3mins
cobalt pelican
the only reason you don't use it with your first vendetta in a normal fight because you literally can't
cobalt pelican
i'd imagine even like 2 stacks worth of crit is better than the proc damage for 20 seconds
placid dawn
cool, makes sense
near coyote
does anyone ever try anything other than bomb in last talent row for mythic + etc
or is it just to good
onyx hazel
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
fleet whale
well in reaping i tried to use hidden blades
but idk i just use PB now cause it's passive
well my M+ set now is 3x SS and 3x EB
strange python
Master assasin rotation? Stealth Garrote Mutilate Rupture Vendetta vanish Toxic Blade?
strange python
Ah So when do i put garrote
midnight flower
Depends I’d check your apl on raidbots for your opener
fleet whale
isn't it like a super minor gain if you don't use garrote right away
lethal bay
you want to play sub if u have a SS tho
strange python
Yea I feel more comfortable with Subter i guess
Running 3x DD, 1x SS, 1x TTK, 1x Loyal to the End
unreal perch
I can honestly say I didn't expect to see inkpod being a dps increase for me :/
steady mountain
Got ashvanes trinket. I understand how to use it ST but for M+ (hectic cleave and dungeon slice) it is simming higher and I don't really know how to utilize it in dungeon for best results. Any idea?
unreal perch
I'm by no means an authority on it, but I feel like you'd just use it for some quick crit
like just get a few quick stacks then pop it for the big crit with echoing?
civic palm
IIRC it triggers when the thing with the debuff dies?
steady mountain
ahh, bout to do a ML will check and get back
civic palm
So just have it on something, get crit, repeat.
Cuz what else do you put it on right? Your priority? Surely the DMG from the trinket isn't THAT important/impactful.
meager nebula
You apply the debuff
But you don't reuse it and just let the mob die
You get the crit and it doesn't incur a cooldown
Rinse and repeat
narrow lagoon
!computation
steady mountain
yeah it's working that way and putting me at like 40% crit for all pulls
narrow lagoon
anyone explain to me how to use cyclotonic blast
ebon sail
New to rouge but, is it worth to cast envenom at 4cp or use gcd to cast poisoned knife/rupture for 5cp?
magic fossil
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7FKxvSpYpGRYpMNjBYjx8t should i go for benthic gloves or it its pontless?
cobalt pelican
if only there was a way you could check
vapid scarab
@ebon sail you finish at 4 or 5, whatever crit rng gives you
ebon sail
@vapid scarab ty
vapid scarab
@narrow lagoon whenever you don’t have vendetta/TB/lucid either available or currently running and rupture/garrote have >4s remaining
This ends up being ~45s into a pull
narrow lagoon
okay cool figured
magic fossil
@cobalt pelican theres a way? im learning to deal tiwh rbots
vapid scarab
Droptimizer, gear compare
cobalt pelican
top gear for gear you own, gear compare for gear you don't (or you can add them to your top gear but that's a pain in the ass)
general answer would probably be yes if you can socket them without wanting to die
but it'll be marginal given the nature of losing some of the procs to heals, so yes if you have the pearls/time
tiny axle
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
lime marsh
So if I'm running SS, I should be using vanish after my empowered garrote wears off to put up another full empowered garrote again right? So do I delay my next vendetta by the ~20 seconds it takes to get another empowered garrote?
cobalt pelican
yes
warm kiln
what traits are you running in tyranical weeks?
broken obsidian
How should I go about simming myself for m+?
steep obsidian
probably best to sim burst over like 1 min or 90 secs and 5 targets or however many you want to without bloodlust
i dont think dungeon slice is that great
strange python
starting to see more top parses using both azshara's font and coral trinkets. anyone know how to use these together given the shared CD?
do you just hold on the the coral trinket till the last vendetta or something?
pseudo hamlet
@strange python I have the same problem. But I'm ususally just using the Coral at last ~20sec of boss life(or so). The problem with Vendetta is that it has 2 min CD, just like Azshara trinket, so I think it's best to pair them up.
rigid mango
@strange python will be pinned later today
That's wrong usage, wait for pin coming later
pseudo hamlet
@strange python There's a trick though, you can try to use them both, because Azshara trinket lasts ~30s and then after 20s you can use the coral. So you could get 10s window with 100% crit chance and +stats.
Right now I'm thinking about using the Coral when it has exactly 100% crit buff(not more, not less, so I'm just calculating how many stacks I need, then I use it).
@rigid mango Nice, thanks. 😃
willow wasp
i kind of want to try stacking crit/vers in raid
waxen remnant
Hey all, i'm sure this question has been asked before but how should you use Ashvane's Razor Coral? Do i use it on CD no matter what stacks are or should i wait X-amount of stacks before using it?
strange python
im so curious on the usage that gets pinned. will be really interesting to see what comes up
this is the parse i'm looking at. anyone know how to view it in a timeline?
I'm a bit of a warcraftlogs novice
warm kiln
click on the rogue. then casts. then timeline
rigid mango
I would, but wcl sucks on phone so
mighty elm
events>timelines
feral shuttle
@waxen remnant apply stacks on pull then use it in your vendetta window.
exotic rose
Hey guys, the assa guide says for the opener:
Master Assassin talented
Garrote
Mutilate
Rupture
But a lot of logs or raidbots start with mutilate rupture mutilate or mutilate mutilate rupture
Is it a lot of difference?
waxen valve
3 tick garrote vs 1 ma mutilate. Usually bl at start so muti has a minimal gain.
oak flower
can someone help me out and lemme know what ideal crit/haste % should be im at 32% Crit 17% Haste
rigid mango
There's no ideal
night cypress
siiimmmmm your weights brah
rigid mango
Just sim to see what you need
oak flower
i have simmed just dont understand what it all means
rigid mango
Just go on top gear and compare your pieces, there are so many diff things that affect it
oak flower
i took a big break during legion and some of wod so bit behind
rigid mango
Link the sim
rigid mango
Both
rigid mango
I see nothing inately wrong
oak flower
ignore them 405 shoulders 😄
rigid mango
It values crit and vers
Haste probably just since the major before cut haste value
And you just want back to normal haste
shy axle
did not play it yet, eager to try it out this afternoon. Even tough i will miss lucid major
rigid mango
There you go, lucid major
That shit hates haste
And clf just wants basic haste, that's why
patent ridge
guys, i actually need some help here, so yesterday i got the crit trinket from azshara, i'm kinda having some trouble to find the right time to use its effect, i mean i'm using it on a 6sec timer pull so i can resealth but seems kinda cluncky
oak flower
when haste is high enough where u dont need lucid surely it will be useless
like in 9.3
rigid mango
You use at 5 on pull and 5-4 sec before each vend again
oak flower
this is what i dont understand also
rigid mango
@patent ridge
patent ridge
@rigid mango wise words, i ll have to try it mate but its as i initially thought i guess
rigid mango
Yeah, just dump as much energy as you can, see so you wont get fucked by standing still and cast it
Honestly anywhere from 14-4 sec befofre vend works
@oak flower your gear is just at the point where it wants everything so atm I wouldn't care that much
patent ridge
thanks for the coach mate ! @rigid mango
oak flower
oh ok thanks 😄
rigid mango
Just sim top gear for whatever piece you get
oak flower
Senpai Zine
rigid mango
opal oyster
Should i use gems according to stats weights or is it ok t let TopGear dictates it? I'm confused because i changed one gem from what RaidBots suggested and when i run the simm again it doesn't suggests to go back to the original gem
turbid osprey
is anyone using the aberration belt over vim's (benthic pieces)?
just got both with a socket lol
quasi pewter
on orgozoa and zaqul, yes
turbid osprey
vims first then
rocky fern
!benthic
fallow estuary
anyone else who gets randomly thrown out of shroud when skipping non detect emissarys?
tepid ridge
is it worth to play Zaqul with bote r2/vision r3 instead of CLFr3 / lucidr3 ?
I'm not sure about that
Ik I'm a lazy pvp boi :p
drifting cloud
And bote2 is not worth it by default
quasi pewter
yea r2 obviously never on any situation
quasi pewter
the adds
tepid ridge
oh the echoes ok
quasi pewter
yea
novel hedge
anyone been using the dungeon slice sim recently? is it legit
drifting cloud
Its not as accurate for assa as it is for otl
turbid osprey
do you guys think worldvein is worth it in raids? feels like i can rarely stack with other melee to get benefit
drifting cloud
Its not. Maybe at 65 when alot more people will use
novel hedge
gonna try use it on my mage , ill try it out
turbid osprey
dont have clf rank 3 just yet though, so what minor is good to use with memory? crucible?
wait why am i asking
ill go sim it
i guess focusing iris could be good on ST
drifting cloud
Yeah before clf3 and if u dont have bote3 or 60 traits your essence setup will jusz be subpar
Just how it is
turbid osprey
yeah nah dont have bote, cant be fucked with pvp lol
i do have crucible rank 3 though
drifting cloud
Then crucible major might be best for you even
turbid osprey
you reckon?
drifting cloud
Dont forget to sim that option
drifting cloud
It was for me atleast for that 1h of raiding where i had 60 but not clf3
turbid osprey
my guilds scrubbing it on hc azshara so we dont have clf this week haha
lucid showing top with crucible minor if you ignore worldvein
though i think i need to do another gem sim
wait, i had in nazjatar unticked, derp
was just thinking 39.7 seemed low
dusty wigeon
Yo, could any1 give the quick idea of when to use razer coral
on pull then on next vendetta?
tepid ridge
y
rocky fern
agile tulip
hey guys, with master assassin do you wanna do vanish->toxic blade->envenom(4-5 cp)->mutilate or toxic blade->vanish->envenom(4-5cp)->mutilate->envenom (assuming mutilate crits) ?
royal lantern
agile tulip
stuck with lucid sadly, the grind for blood r3 is something I'm not looking forward to
cobalt pelican
anyone with mythic coral is banned from other gear
cobalt pelican
even grosser
arctic walrus
Guess that explains it for me
cobalt pelican
banned from the raid
cobalt pelican
my sim dps literally hasn't gone up a single point since i got clf
might aswell have not played
arctic walrus
My sim isn't going anywhere for 2 weeks
low junco
anyone who has the inkpod code
for sims
so i can use topgear instead of gear compare
cobalt pelican
just grab it from wowhead
arctic walrus
trinket1=",id=169319,bonus_id=4800/1517/4786,context=6"
arctic walrus
That's just the one I have in my bags sorry
low junco
alright its fine
rigid mango
@low junco do you have another 430 trink?
because you can just add the modifier shit to make it 430 ontop of the id to make it a 430 inkpod
low junco
i dont deserver yes
past harbor
What is the opener with SS and MA?
rigid mango
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
rigid mango
in there
low junco
its 400 upgrade
low junco
compared to 435 spylgass
rigid mango
It's more or less an upgrade on any level spyglass probs
I don't think it sims with the inkpod critting
With coral + general crit you have a good chance at it critting so
rigid mango
idk, you can probably check if you do a quick sim and see what the APL does
but iirc it saves all of coral for 30%, pops and hopes for crit
idk if it actually does crit or not
low junco
from what i know people save cds for 30% so they can pop the coral aswell
something like that
idk
unsure
idc aswell
dark crag
If you won't waste a vend cast, it has no downside
peak badger
Good rng on loot @low junco
arctic walrus
Oh just realized that new coral/font usage upped my sim by like 700
rigid mango
You're welcome vel
low junco
@peak badger bad rng loot
peak badger
well in comparison to my luck, you are doing awesome
low junco
what is your luck
peak badger
shit
tight gazelle
I'm thinking of flipping from outlaw to assassination for raid content. How much gear flipping will I likely need to do (daggers aside)?
tight gazelle
Doesnt sound too bad
I also got really unlucky with loot rolls, so I just have a bunch of higher ilvl mastery gear in my bags.
Thanks!
rocky fern
You'll be suffering w/out haste on your sin gear
which, like, you'll still be able to parse okay with your outlaw crit gear, but you'll want to try to migrate to haste where you can (gems, rings, etc)
crisp steppe
yeah lucid major doesn't care much for haste. mainly once u go CLF u want more haste
arctic walrus
Haste so good sims want me going iris 2nd minor
arctic walrus
Some people in guild going for it, might have it by next weekend
63 is my next goal even though I don't even have a mythic helm yet
crystal vessel
Does Mastery increase the DD poison Damage?
low junco
my goal is 65 by the end of the month tbh
i might actually consider farming islands for a while
2nd minor is actually
a big upgrade
west depot
hey guys.
is Phial of the Arcane Tempest from Radiance of Azshara good for m+ (fortiefied) for trash ?
low junco
i doubt it @west depot
west depot
simed it myself and didnt look that good, but propably did something wrong ^^
west depot
430 ^^
rigid mango
I prefer getting damage
rigid mango
The diff between blackwater and cepha are within 0.0% in the variance of sims I've done
past marten
Is there actually a difference between one or two loyal to the end when it comes to the buff (when someone with ltte dies)?
low junco
yes
low junco
if 2 people with loyal to the end die
arctic walrus
Zine speaks the truth
past marten
No I mean
arctic walrus
Barely ahead and that's with x4 loyal active and x2 traits
past marten
I have one or two of it as trait
past marten
Okay thanks
drifting flame
I got confused by profile pics for a second there
low junco
how
arctic walrus
past marten
So if Blackwater and Ceph sim on the same level, the former should be better right?
As it has the upside of a potential buff
arctic walrus
I'm nothing without default discord pfp
cobalt pelican
i'd say the opposite probably unless you have an abundance of loyal in melee
past marten
Is loyal proximity based?
cobalt pelican
cause it is possible to range the buff, even though it's unlikely
the base mastery is like ~45yards?
past marten
Thought you can't really outrange it
cobalt pelican
it's not likely but it does happen occasionally
like if you have 4 melee with it it'll never be an issue
but if you're playing a movement fight with one of the moonkins having it or something don't be surprised if they don't count some of the time
past marten
40+
I think if your ranged are not within 40y of you
Something is going wrong anyhow
cobalt pelican
it won't happen under normal circumstances but i'd much rather have that not be a possibility
than pray for one of the other loyal people to die
with exceptions (like dietank having it on ashvane)
rigid mango
idk, I think that they're so close in relative value