u just kill it
#assassination
scarlet sequoia
cobalt pelican
gate to it
faint harness
waste of time
scarlet sequoia
and use ur shit
rigid mango
for insta puffer step and then racial back
woeful minnow
racial back 
faint harness
play the fucking alter time essence
rigid mango
?????
cobalt pelican
not being a mighty 8ft tall nelf as alliance
rigid mango
Profit.
cobalt pelican
is a sin
rigid mango
nty
scarlet sequoia
human is bis
rigid mango
I like my belf
cobalt pelican
no
rigid mango
but edgy
cobalt pelican
humans are hideous
rigid mango
ty vm
cobalt pelican
my monk is a human
cobalt pelican
and i was debating paying the 400k gold or whatever
to make it not a monk
i mean not a human
i wish i could pay 20 euros to make it not a monk
that'd be great
rigid mango
^
faint harness
how do you class swap
woeful minnow
imagine playing void elf
woeful minnow
imagine taking a discord server for a 15-year-old video game this seriously
rigid mango
faint harness
even maghar beats belf according to the racial sims
quasi pewter
but belf still better for m+
marble elm
but its dogshit
cobalt pelican
i never trust those herodamage sims they seem to get updated weird
faint harness
look at those nelf numbers, its like night and day
marble elm
just sim all the races for your character
rigid mango
Stop.
marble elm
its somewhere in this discord
cobalt pelican
is it bad that i play nelf and dont even kn ow what racial i get when i raid in european times
marble elm
just search race=copy and you'll find it
cobalt pelican
the only time i know what racial i get is when i zone into arena and my charater lights up
faint harness
1% crit and some energy 
arctic walrus
Are you not doing azshara tonight
rigid mango
idk, voidelf second to highest with a useful racial on certain fights
- best looking ally race
Fucking package deal
nimble tartan
Anyone want to play ff with me
cobalt pelican
i only play eso so i can combine my esologs and warcraftlogs profiles and be the best gamer there ever was
tbh if maledicts and m+ shrouded wasn't a thing i'd probably be velf
i'm super lazy w hen it comes to dungeons and playing 3shrouded on every key is comfy
arctic walrus
woah there's logs in eso?
arctic walrus
Looks like i'm moving on from wow
cobalt pelican
sometimes i look around because i know how to click on the buttons
but don't know what the spells are
cobalt pelican
i like garrote being 50% of my damage
well yeah you're a dirty velf
you've not seen the light of
1 spell only in dungeons
rigid mango
I've played nelf before 
arctic walrus
Doing keys not as sub
rigid mango
not sure if meaning subterfuge or the bannable word
cobalt pelican
i've not done a key as sub since season 1 actually
rigid mango
cobalt pelican
sectec is pretty fun though
maybe i'll try
i'd play like every spec if i didn't need to reforge my gear
and collect residuumsinks
cobalt pelican
if it was convenient i'd totally do it when i do 10s with guildies who just want their weeklies on alts
but by the time the gear is set up and i'm ready to go the dungeon will be over
and i'll be 5k gold poorer
rigid mango
I just wish I got something from doing more than 1 high key a week
as, atm I don't feel the need to at all
I just fuck about in up to 15's instead with friends or whatnot
cobalt pelican
farmable residuum when
rigid mango
just anything
zenith gust
just increase forging chance in 20s+ keys, it's just dumb to get 400 items after timing a 21 (S2)
rustic heath
When do you use font at the start of a fight?
heady ridge
is there a way to calculate the perfect amount of time to charge azshara's font? like time casting dps loss vs gained dps for the extra time casting
quasi pewter
you use font 5s prepull @rustic heath
rustic heath
Okay cool
quasi pewter
you always want to fully charge while trying to not overcap energy
rustic heath
Do you need to restealth before pull?
quasi pewter
with MA yes
it doesnt break stealth with subterfuge
but it does with MA
thats why 5s prepull so you have 1s to pot and stealth
rustic heath
Okay
raw fox
should i just upgrade the benthic pieces without sockets that i have?
fallow otter
@raw fox its a waste but you can if you want, personally i wouldnt
raw fox
so benthic is only worth it with sockets?
fallow otter
but it depends on how serious are for dmg and how much time you have for farming MP
no, an equal ilvl piece of gear cannot compete with benthic
rigid mango
@raw fox yes, only sockets.
fallow otter
assuming you are not a very casual player, just keep trying to get a socket
fallow otter
socket 100% then
rigid mango
Upgrading non-socketed is wrong
raw fox
I've been back for less than a week and got a heroic clear. Tryin to up my dps and get better gear.
rigid mango
You need essences
fallow otter
lucid
rigid mango
If you want mythic with that gear, I can see a bunch of pvp farming, pearl farming and m+ farming
Being what you need
fallow otter
if you prefer pvp go the blood/lucid route if you prefer m+ go the lucid/iris route
both competative
mossy vortex
Ay yo. Im having some troubles understanding what am i doing wrong with my parse. Can someone help me?
raw fox
i mean, im gonna at least clear 3/8 next tuesday. So if I want to amp my dps asap, i should focus on which essences first?
mossy vortex
here are the logs : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RnTPbAx1kMvcFhDB/
fallow otter
in a short amount of time, getting a 2nd essence and using lucid/iris probably going to be quicker unless all you do is PVP
raw fox
by second essence you mean rank 65 neck/>
fallow otter
55
raw fox
i am 55
fallow otter
all good then
yeh i never went the blood/lucid route coz i dont have time to pvp
so i went the lucid/iris, it turned out to be about 100more dps for me anyway
but lts less burst and more consistent
steady might be a better word
raw fox
ill have rank 2 of condensed on tuesday too
fallow otter
lucid major will still be better
rank3 clf will be about the same as lucid major but you can move lucid to being minor and its better than the other minors
fallow otter
this is all dependent on gear and azerite but im trying to be general not knowing what pieces you get between now and then
dont forget ancient coral bark
once a week
murloco mini game
mrrl
killing algans for extra MP and benthic
feed your main benthic pieces with alts
rigid mango
@mossy vortex dm me them and I'll take a look at them when I wake up
raw fox
damn i havent done any of those lol
fallow otter
with alts you can pump benthic to your main if you have the time
save the mana pearls on your main for upgrading
raw fox
so if i do all them things to get that rank for my alts, how fast can i get rank 3?
fallow otter
alts is only for benthic funneling
raw fox
sorry my guards
fallow otter
its not a massive jump for lucid ranks tbh i wouldnt stress about it
raw fox
well thats the thing, everyone tells me i need essence but that none of them are big leaps!
fallow otter
you want it, work towards it for sure
vapid scarab
r2 to r3 is big, r1 to r2 is not
fallow otter
mastery gem and chants dont feel ewww vers does
sand otter
i fixed my gems, and now im just going to pray for trinkets. and i hope i can start pulling ahead
raw fox
well ill just keep doing what im doing, continue working on my essences and getting more gear.
guess there really isn't a shortcut to boosting essences
sand otter
im half a level to 55, so i can get my minor powre
and 1 reliquary from rank 2 essnce so
almost there
true nexus
@sand otter What kind of damage are you doing in EP?
sand otter
on the last ashzara pull, i was at 23k overall for the kill
can show logs soon as leader uplaods them
i had top spec into prey on the weak, cuz the behemoth was not dying fast enough, so i did that so the raid could kil ti faster
fallow otter
sand otter
how did you do that
fallow otter
ive been simming alot 😃 i had an idea of what would get you some more dps
sand otter
i went combat for the last half of the last patch, wanted to love it but i culdnt do it
after playing Sin for nearly 13 years, even though im bad at it, it is just comfortable
i remember when stacking mastery was fun and it worked
fallow otter
even from raid finder the trinkets are a massive upgrade so get in there when you can 😃
sand otter
i can run that, i have the premium
OOOO ok i will thanks!!
totally forgot about that and im dumb
oooo Vodkas is on my server, and Flawless is too, its like a celebrity haha
rotund sparrow
sorry guys i don't speak english very well i would like to know if the undulating tides is worth using as the shield proca all the time
brittle birch
is at least one SS mandatory for m+?
quasi pewter
pretty much yes
pulsar torrent
guys, idk on my simc's for 3+ mobs says that focusing iris its better, but doing some m+ around, bote overall im doing wayyy better(with 3x EB / 1x TTK / 1x SS), anyone seen that too ? D:
near coyote
so sin rogues ever get to go to delerium realm?
quasi pewter
yes
fleet whale
Assassination should be a good choice to go down to that realm cause of 1. very high ST damage and 2. Rogues in general can actually last a pretty long time down there
near coyote
how many stacks do you guys last with
quasi pewter
8-10 usually
ornate meteor
My guild lead told me to go delirium first with fire mage and a dh, which always got aoe by them so i usually until stack 6-7 then cloak the hysteria until 50%
quasi pewter
fire mage is big yikes with melee
sharp viper
i wonder why the APL doesn't line up the second use of guardian with the 3rd vendetta in a 5 minute fight?
quasi pewter
dont think apl does anything differently depending on fight length
it just does rotation as if the duration was infinite propably
fallow otter
@fleet whale - we looking at cloaking off after a 5-6stack then later the rogues blind each other? leeching poison and probably VoP minor? anything else of note to do?
drifting cloud
I have a feeling only Saryero was talking about mythic from the last 10 comments 
drifting cloud
yeah but atleast yours was obvious because of leeching and vop
placid mulch
The blind thing doesn’t work anymore though I thought?
arctic walrus
@fallow otter clocking around 6-7 stacks I was staying in for about 10-13 stacks total
Save healthstone/pot for 2nd split to stay down for as long as possible, probably until it dies
You can get 2 vial casts if you use one early in the phase
marble elm
I don’t think I’m using vision next week
Our delirium add died faster than the fear add
arctic walrus
With your comp I can see it not being as good
fallow otter
ok thanks, i dont have blood3 so next best lucid/vision or clf/vision?
arctic walrus
probably clf
lucid will get little to no use
that's for this week's kill, both splits
hard carrying our spriests
marble elm
Our warlock does 2-3 mil to the 2nd one alone
fallow otter
whats the verdict on blind no go anymore?
arctic walrus
last week even worse
pretty sure blind doesn't work anymore
didn't even bother to try
How was azshara Night
marble elm
It was ok for first night
I am surprised to see how many cds guilds are committing to the hulks
arctic walrus
P1 damage isn't worth a whole lot
marble elm
Yeah but not having your shit for p2
fallow otter
i saw method had fire mage combusting it, how many people you need usually?
arctic walrus
2 minutes come up if you use on first hulk
I first started saving vendetta for first but our damage got better so now I get to use on cyrannus
marble elm
Didn’t really feel like we struggled with killing them in time
arctic walrus
How are you ccing it
marble elm
Some kind of stun idk who’s doing it i was doing something else when it was being discuseed
arctic walrus
We sharin strats? 
marble elm
We public log
I’m sure we’re using whatever is best I just don’t know what it is cause I wasn’t paying attention
Too busy lookin for the beam
nimble tartan
I saw some duders holdin vendetta for 2nd hulk
fallow otter
im guessing only a coral will beat a 425 cyclo
opal meadow
yeah
winter moss
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aaX83T9atDpg3RmkYSqbwU kinda getting there but y haste 
got a 428 pocket-sized and a 445 coral would bead it by 1.5% roughly
opal meadow
@fallow otter how does ~170 mastery give me that much dps
fallow otter
because you weren't simming having others in your raid with loyal til the end trait
cold patio
u getting + mst for other players with loyal
fallow otter
nope, but when you switch to CLF/lucid mastery loses alot of value - my sim went all haste now im 1 crit gem rest haste
when i was lucid/iris i was zero haste all crit and mastery
for obv reasons
opal meadow
i know im getting mastery but i dont get how the mastery is giving me 2k dps
sudden ocean
Are you simming it with 4 loyal to the end friends
opal meadow
ok i simmed with 0 loyal to the end and it was 41k dps and he simmed me with 4 loyal and it was 43k dps
but how does that make sense
sudden ocean
what's your stat weight telling you
fallow otter
i also added "bfa.font_of_power_precombat_channel="4""
cold patio
yeah pre 10 works good for me
opal meadow
oh is that not included in the apl
winter moss
it is at 5 seconds or something
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/efFyDEzCPdyxcfjv2hA9WP if you click on sample ability log way down
they buff ends at 29 seconds
winter moss
well balanced
solid pebble
I know this was asked a ton of times already, just wanna make sure i get this right:
To use font + coral, you do:
font 5 before pull > opener > vendetta > coral activation > ... > font > vendetta > (some seconds later) coral reactivation > 20s later coral activation again > ... rinse and repeat
sudden ocean
What are you simming Loyal against?
fallow otter
@opal meadow "In Nazjatar Disabled" this should be enabled
winter moss
@solid pebble yea
BUT
if using font an coral
try to precast font 10secs before the pull
as the apl wouldnt use coral if vendetta is less than 10 seconds up
solid pebble
alright, thanks a bunch
peak musk
Hmm and infight?
also cast font 10sec before V then coral(crit-part) on cd?
winter moss
yes
rinse and repeat
just make use that the latent arcana buff covers the entire vendetta!
amber coyote
Guys I’m kinda struggling with the opener with coral how do u guys r using ?
fallow otter
depends on what your other trinket is really
opal meadow
what pot does raidbots use if you do letsimc decide?
frigid briar
Agi afaik
fallow otter
^
simple meteor
ashvane worth for mythic plus since when adds die you get the effect?
royal lantern
i honestly think that its a wasted trinket slot for sin m+ right now, you dont get enough value out of it
frigid briar
Does FoK stack inkpod? Anyone know?
Im hardstuck outlaw till orgazoa dies so have not tested
frigid briar
upbeat geode
infex, is outlaw good on orgazoa?
winter moss
it is 
upbeat geode
we kill ashvane yesterday were gonna progress orgazoa next, is it worth to reforge for outlaw?
fallow otter
i did
arctic walrus
@frigid briar Fan spreads inkpod
winter moss
i did also
frigid briar
Outlaw is pretty mandatory imo
If you have 3 rogues one can play assass for boss damage probably
The add damage is just insane as outlaw
opal meadow
I'm the only rogue 😭 probably gonna go outlaw
arctic walrus
Outlaw still ends that fight very high on boss damage
frigid briar
Unless your me and bad at outlaw 👌
opal meadow
same!
royal lantern
just roll better 
opal meadow
i dont know how to outlaw, whenever i play it (which im pretty sure i'm playing it right) i never do anywhere close to sim damage
arctic walrus
This week I was 4th boss damage and 4th on adds
opal meadow
maybe i'll just stay ass
royal lantern
because you dont play it all the time, and do a shitton of mistakes without noticing it?
opal meadow
idk
drifting cloud
unless you have some insane cleave comp even playing outlaw bad is probably way better than assa on this fight overall
but if like 10 of your dps are fire mages, fury warrs sps and dhs its probably not needed 😂
opal meadow
its fine, my guild probably wont kill ashvane
i won't even have to worry about this dilemma
fallow otter
@arctic walrus i didnt expect to have so much ST for gorgonzola - average like 38k
we are not making the dps check though
so doesnt really mean anything
strange python
38k? Surely you should be doing more than that
drifting cloud
38k is plenty for outlaw
r1 outlaw boss dmg is 39k, but yeah the intermission brings that number down by quite a bit I guess
unborn helm
Boy, i’m playn with lucid lvl 3 major and flame lvl 3 minor and having tons of fun (like a 40s opener if got decent crits) should i use other traits or lucid/flame is a good combo?
rigid mango
Odds are just swapping them might be a better combo, other than that blood/clf r3 + lucid r3
fallow otter
yeah 38k is literally me selecting all the wipes - and wipes are wipes - only a guide one i did like 44k but got some good rolls
zinc furnace
fallow otter
no cross realm yet right
rigid mango
Not until famed
winter turtle
heyo guys. quick question, maybe someone knows what i'm talking about... i remember a site where you could have your logs analyzed and it would give you hints on what you're doing wrong in your rotation etc... forgot what it's called
opal meadow
wowanalyzer
opal meadow
but its kinda dumb unless you're using it on a training dummy
winter turtle
yeah. a friend of mine is struggling with his rogue dps and not knowing what he's doing wrong. been playing healer for a long time now and am too lazy to analyze his logs myself tbh
maybe this can give him some quick hints
thanks again
rigid mango
Wowanalyzdr is bad
Like, real bad
Not supported for sin if you're intending on using it
opal meadow
the only good thing about wowanalyzer is if you're using the statistics page
that page is kinda neat
rigid mango
Better off posting logs here and having someone help you
winter turtle
yea at first glance i see him not keeping up his bleeds, capping on energy way too often, not using pots and cooldowns effectively...
opal meadow
that's misleading tho
check this, it says all that shit but i got a pretty good parse
winter turtle
ah.. yea i see how it would
winter turtle
guess i'll have to check his logs myself fight by fight afterall
alrighty... thanks again mates. have a nice day
opal meadow
any idea why some people are saying to font 10 seconds before pull
also does opener change with using font? do you vendetta on pull instead of after rupture
rigid mango
You font 5 sec on pulltimer
opal meadow
yeah thats what ive been doing
id assume since font is 30 seconds it's fine to do normal opener and then vendetta
weary verge
I think people were talking about 10s pre-cast Font if you have Font + Coral? Not sure
rigid mango
That was the one context people I've talked to have been talking about it
high crypt
As long as it’s it’s up for all of vendetta I’d say
rigid mango
But even then, I really see no reason for it since delaying your vend just a short bit wont lose you a cast 90% of the time
That's true for in fight
But on pull, you still want it to start as close to pull as possible
When you're already fighting, using it as soon as 14 sec before vend is entirely fine.
Still gives you full cast over entire vend
high crypt
Ya I mean I use it at 6-7 due to ninjas
rigid mango
I think 5 is pretty forgiving
high crypt
Yeah I think 10 secs was also for the internal cd for coral
rigid mango
I normally use as soon as 6 becomes 5, which means I have effectivly 2 seconds to prep
Yeah but that doesn't matter for coral
since first one is just applying the dot
high crypt
Yeah not too important
rigid mango
delaying that for 5 seconds is much less of a deal than losing 5 in combat seconds of font
maiden parcel
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
brisk canopy
Hey guys quick question, I see a lot of very good rogues with very different builds (some are full mastery, other full haste or crit or whatever). And it seems there is no consensus on what is the best secondary stat and the best built for Assa rogue, what's the reason behind that ?
rigid mango
There's different traits/ess that affect stat weights differently
or items, the benthic feet prio crit a lot
brisk canopy
Everyone has the benthic feet yet I see everyone with a different built :/
fallow otter
everyone is just playing the best essence/trait combination they have access to, this throws around the stat weights alot
cosmic prism
is it worth to do m+ as assassination? i mean reforge cost is more than it is to go to outlaw for me
sullen sphinx
With the right traits and essences you can do some big boy damage as sin in mythic plus
Plus boss damage is generally better than outlaw
cosmic prism
yeah i was considering it since it is tyranical but i think overall dmg outlaw has it beat, sure less boss dmg but trash > boss' in m+
sullen sphinx
Yea for sure but you asked if it’s worth it and I think yes
For those reasons
Outlaw is better but you can definitely get by playing sin
royal lantern
outlaw is less effort cus there is no difference bettwen raid and m+ gear, simply because of how bladeflurry works
sin needs different gear sets too do the same, it works, but harder too gear cus of it
hazy geyser
yeah imo outlaw is generally just better for M+ since you only need to maintain 1 set and you can do some decent damage especially on cleave fights but i feel like its a lot easier to get the azerite traits for some reason but it might just be me
rigid mango
Outlaw is better for m+ since they have better utility
royal lantern
^ gouge is op
hazy geyser
also that grapple is really nice
royal lantern
and having vanish as a deffensive 100% of the time too
hazy geyser
the shrine elemental skip is almost impossible with assass so yeah outlaw has better utility
rigid mango
????
What?
I've never ever failed it as assa.
As a person who pushed keys more or less entirity of s2 as sin, I know for a fact that that is absolutely not true.
hazy geyser
i havent done it with assass but it seems to be easier since you can just grapple vanish without having anyone to shadowstep to who could get into combat
royal lantern
...sprint?
modest tendon
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uQgBz5BVqP5W8GYMJjmFsV I would like to improve my damage in m+, can anybody give me any advice on what to work towards?
rigid mango
Your shit seems fiune
Everything in that sim is more than fine to play with
The only thing you can do is pray for higher azerite, and sockets
modest tendon
im having output problems and its bothering me, my dps is ok but its not great and im struggling to figure out what im doing wrong, maybe ill log a run and upload it later i dont know, i guess its just rotational issues im having
rigid mango
Probably, it's hard to distinguish what's wrong in runs
When there's so many different factors that impact your run positivly/negativly compared to an average one
Your setup is very similar as to what I'm running, and I'm having no real issues
sudden ocean
what's the mastery break point when MP takes over from EP
modest tendon
i tend to average about that sim overall, better players i play with tend to be closer to 40k and i cant figure out if its my build (ttk does less overall) or im just shit
rigid mango
@sudden ocean too much to be realistic
I mean averaging mid 30k isn't bad
Sin is so reliant on consistant pulls
sudden ocean
Thanks Zine
sudden ocean
Ye I hope
sudden ocean
Think they'll stick with the stat system and let it continually grow?
having like 200% mastery was cute though
sudden ocean
tbh though I'd like to see Blindside be playable
vagrant tapir
Does wowanalyzer work for sin?
rigid mango
Yeah, I mean that's ultimatly thr optimal thing
No, it doesn't
I think EP will always be top for m+, but ST we might see something else later on
vagrant tapir
something else?
sudden ocean
Is blindside off gcd?
rigid mango
I don't think anything changes from the way we currently play outside of ma/sub, talents wise
Unless they balance something
sudden ocean
Venom rush needs to go
olive edge
How does the synergy between dribbling inkpod and razor coral work? Just activate razor coral right before it procs and hope that it crits?
sudden ocean
taking up a spot tbh
rigid mango
Yeah, you don't use it until close to 30%
Afaik
Obviously better if that syncs up well with something else.
obtuse ruin
is it ever worth using focused azerite beam during vendetta phase?
rigid mango
And yeah, VR is a joke of a talent
vagrant tapir
depends opn how many targets i guess
rigid mango
No, odds are you miss out on muti/env using iris then
And beam doesn't get more damage from vend so, it's not worth it
obtuse ruin
oh ok thats waht I wanted to know
vagrant tapir
regardless of the # of targets?
rigid mango
If you've popped vend knowing you want to iris soon, you've missplayed
vagrant tapir
certainly
rigid mango
And in m+ it'd be a huge waste
Seeing as how most times you're GCD lockes anyways
Meaning that you'll for sure miss out on prio damage
sudden ocean
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/djoMiRQGvm4rXnQUfjELy3 finally broke the haste drought
obtuse ruin
yeah I was just asking because I am running iris and during tyrannical bosses in m+ I might as well use it
rigid mango
Yeah, MP is horrible
vagrant tapir
makes me sad its dead
rigid mango
And yeah, you want to use iris during bosses for sure
vagrant tapir
Korean M+ god
rigid mango
Not to me
vagrant tapir
Was just nice to have something different
rigid mango
Ah, you mean damage
vagrant tapir
atleast being viable, even if its less interactive
rigid mango
I prefer not dumming down specs even further
vagrant tapir
ofc it would be better if we had something more interesting altogether
But if I have to pick between just EP or EP/MP, Id just rather there be more choice
rigid mango
I'd rather they remove MP out of the game over ever having to play it
Choice sure, but all it is is more damage
fun
obtuse ruin
in the shitter
sudden ocean
Ashavne prog
autumn trench
Mine was 'don't soak'
lost tree
what do you guys pot for single target?
lost tree
thanks 😃
rigid mango
Imagine only having 4 tabs open when doing sims 
frigid briar
Blindside should be baseline imo
sudden ocean
Idk about blindside
I'd like it to be a competitive talent on another tier
it's out of place with 2 passives
buff it and put it on the 100 tier I think
drop hidden blades
lost tree
Unbridled Fury sims higher rip my 100 Focused Resolve Pots
sudden ocean
something to rival poison bombs dominance
rigid mango
I think it's an ability that brings a lot to the spec
sudden ocean
Bliz devs cough up a lung whenever you mention adding complexity to classes
rigid mango
I think if you could give both EP and Blindside, there'd be more of a skillcheck to sin than just TB windows
lament dove
if it didn't generate 1 CP...
azure basalt
Personally really dislike blindside
frigid briar
Why?
azure basalt
It’s just a warrior execute lol
frigid briar
Not really the same
Execute doesnt give combo points and hits like a truck
Dispatch main gains were the more reliable uptimes on envenom
And would be EP aswell
rigid mango
Blindside is just alternative builder
Which would also add another layer of thought into playing sin
frigid briar
They could also build azerite around it if it was baseline
patent topaz
if it wasnt worse than mutilate in every way
lament dove
^
frigid briar
Like blindside has a chance to refresh garrote or something
azure basalt
I’d rather have something else that adds to the spec overall rather than something used during parts of an encounter
frigid briar
After playing rogue for 13 years Id appreciate it if they stopped taking shit from us and then make us talent to get it back
vagrant tapir
445 gorak tul
autumn trench
Pretty sure it's only on manto
autumn trench
Ah, 415?
frigid briar
On helm what other traits are their apart from BB
frigid briar
Yeah but the helm are you sure BB is the best trait?
obtuse ruin
is helm from vendor?
frigid briar
Never even know those shoulders existed
frigid briar
Not that they are good btw
vagrant tapir
their bis
thin patio
???
frigid briar
Pretty sure you have better helm in bags
vagrant tapir
frigid briar
Double BB bis for m+?
sudden ocean
bbi never
dark crag
Bbi is above average at best
simple meteor
bbi is bae
sudden ocean
huh bbi isn't simming over NP on gorak tuls
autumn trench
Np+loyal sims equal to np+bbi for me
strange python
am i supposed to be pooling energy? some say i should but when i watch flawless play he just spams mutilate every single time he has 55 energy
sudden ocean
nah its probably this
marble elm
Probably more has to do with not having np
sudden ocean
is this for m+?
arctic walrus
Swap essence around
honest heath
raid
arctic walrus
Try simming trade winds, might be better than SS
honest heath
I ran out of pearls
sudden ocean
why are you using iris for raid
arctic walrus
Can you do a top gear sim
honest heath
can't at work...can only do the simple sim stuff through disc
sudden ocean
I dont see any way on this earth that iris will be your best ST major
arctic walrus
Well okay, you're gonna 100% swap your essences
honest heath
yeah...that's on the list of things to do
sudden ocean
Unless you have no other essences
arctic walrus
buy the new gems, shit's dirt cheap
sudden ocean
and start working on worldvein asap
honest heath
I'm 1 week away from R3 worldvein
sudden ocean
that should be your minor if your team are using them
arctic walrus
and like I said, tradewinds will probably be better than 1 SS with 3DD
sudden ocean
make sure to change sim settings to the appropriate amount of people in your team using it
honest heath
kk...sim tradewinds...if I get rid of SS then I can go back to MA
arctic walrus
WV is a trap change my mind
honest heath
I feel like the puffer fish bracers are sort of a trap
honest heath
I know they are affected by movement but man did it feel lackluster in ashvane yesterday
honest heath
with my current gear though...the boots were highest increase
arctic walrus
You could've spent those pearls fishing for another benthic piece, or saving to upgrade another
sudden ocean
WV was a fine filler but we're all lucid minor dogs now
uneven pecan
Lucid mahor feels so nice though
azure basalt
I’m glad for now life force is good for me cause I really don’t want to grind out rank 3 bote
uneven pecan
For us plebs without rank 3 guardian
azure basalt
I really hate bgs
honest heath
what's the req for R3 bote?
uneven pecan
50k?
uneven pecan
I slammed like 17k in one day and it was hell
azure basalt
Hopefully Life force doesn’t get nerfed cause I do not want to get it
honest heath
I was going to try and farm honor this weeekend for R2 -_-||
azure basalt
Or else I’m going to be sad
arctic walrus
You don't bother with bote unless you're planning on getting r3
honest heath
so...farm a total of 65k honor, huh?
azure basalt
50k
honest heath
well, I'm adding in what I need for R2
sudden ocean
Rank 3 guardian is so consistent on prog that it's feeling essential
azure basalt
It’s based off an achievement not desperate honor quest requirements
The total for r2 and r3 is 50k
They aren’t added together to make rank 3 cost 65k
honest heath
ohhh ok
short jacinth
Font use on pre pull?
honest heath
is that just swapping essences?
crystal vault
what else? in vendetta window ?
arctic walrus
10s before
honest heath
mastery? hmm...that's interesting
I don't think I ever even tried mastery because the default was always crit or haste currently
I need to get more iterations on my raidbots
gotcha
ah right...when I swap to lucid major I don't need to gem/enchant for haste
ashen coral
Hiya, turns out ive been using the wrong essence for raids and been focusing on using blood of the enemy.
Was just wondering what you all use for mythic +? Iris rank 3 or blood? I only have rank 2 blood
upbeat geode
iris in major
novel hedge
hi friends! Ive got troubles.. dno when to reactivate my coral . how do u use it? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ZH1ke8EMyUa2PkuZfxmMv
novel hedge
thanks!
ashen coral
ty
marble elm
Depends on your strat
sullen pagoda
usually go to strat is 2min on start and 3min after shield
spice frost
i was told to hold for first shield and i dont think its the right chopice ><
cobalt pelican
why not
spice frost
1.5min waiting and not used
cobalt pelican
literally anything works as long as you're not being forced to stagger cds on a personal lvl (ie guardian randomly being postponed)
spice frost
itll be up end of sheild down phase anyway
dapper ibex
I just use lucid dreams as soon as I'm energy starved at the start. No point in saving it if you BL on the first shield pop.
devout gazelle
guys which set of traits i need for sin at m+?
ashen coral
Echoing blades/suffocation
devout gazelle
3 ss i guess and 3 eb?
magic thorn
thorn edge
I find 1-2 EB is quite solid - granted with higher level keys you rarely see monster pulls (also very dungeon specific - e.g. no truly large pulls in KR outside of 2nd boss room).
Regarding Ashvane - I use Vendetta on CD
!weakauras
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
thorn edge
@devout gazelle Many favor 2xEB, 2xSS, 2xTTK - some go for 3xEB, 3xSS.... SS value drops dramatically if you cannot re-stealth before pulls (i.e. your tank chain pulls).
devout gazelle
Yea yea i see ty guys 😃
what about essenses tho?
Which one you suggest for keys?
Iris major lucid minor i guess?
vocal kelp
Iris Major and Lucid Minor is a solid choice. Personally i like BotE/Lucid but def think Iris/Lucid performs better
rigid mango
I don't think iris performs better by a big margin if there even is one at all
Sin has downtime, but on ST
You can do good damage withiut iris and with blood you don't spend time casting fir so long
And lose so many GCD's
strange python
iris melts pack
bronze kelp
Iris is a nice aoe burst but not always the most important thing. But yes its good 😉
What was bote CD?
hollow junco
1.5
vocal kelp
thats true zine, bote performs better like u said on ST and the juicy FoKs u get in the 5 sec window is very nice indeed
viral iris
how are you all using ashvane's razor coral? Reactivate for crit buff during second vendetta?
for single target
rigid mango
Repeat for each vend, yeah
And yeah, bote also gives even more ST so I'd say it's possibly even better for tyr weeks, ofc dependant on what key you're doing since some, iris is pretty useful on (wcm as an example)
viral iris
thank you yeah was just wondering how it works in my rotation for raid, waiting for those stacks to build up seems to yield highest deps
dense cedar
Fellow assassination rogues, will my next Weekly M+ chest have an upgrade in it?
eager kernel
yes
dense cedar
ty
shy dust
No
rancid bobcat
can you repeat the question
arctic walrus
"Vendetta before next TB around 2:10, Coral into it at 2:16"
is mystler saying tb at 2:10 or coral+tb at 2:16
This is with the new #tc-updates changes?
rigid mango
Hopefully they test the font+coral changes that I put forwards, I hope it's a gain
true thistle
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
true pelican
@gusty kestrel I don't think that includes new changes, new update says to hold vendetta until tb is up at 2:10
basically font on cd, hold vendetta until either tb or coral is available
true thistle
memory of lucid dreams for this m+ week?"
fresh robin
any of you guys that have killed ashvane on mythic have any advice for a melee heavy comp?
like 7 melee
true nexus
anyone have a subterfuge wa jsut to show when we still get the bonus
fresh robin
also what's your guilds average ilvl? we're only 6 hr
rancid bobcat
not much to say except you gotta be on point with coral
main rose
is there a reason why I am seeing more rogues use at least 1 twist the knife. what changed for it to be viable if anyone knows?
viral iris
i think b/c not worth to have more than one nothing personal anymore
royal lantern
ttk was never that bad
true pelican
probably because they use cephalohide jacket which has overwhelming power
royal lantern
^ in case of that its only cus of op
marble elm
Behemoth chest + cephalohide both have it and they both have overwhelming power
true nexus
is nothing personal not stacking now?
royal lantern
it was never that great too stack too begin with
NP gains the majortiy of its value from the first trait
and like night said, ttk is ofc not THAT good, but its far from beeing bad, and its mostly used because the pieces have DD+OP on it
manic quartz
Do you think there is any chance to Blizz buff Vision of Demise
its so bad right now
nimble tartan
none
muted jacinth
@fresh robin we ran 6 melee and if you were paired with ranged as melee the ranged has to move to behind the coral so melee could stay on boss. otherwise if its double melee just one person called out the other to stay depending on their cds. raid ilvl was 433
deft nymph
except....the juju gives more haste than VoD LOL
pale crane
Searched a bit and didn't find an answer. Why did method rogues always use the pvp essence? Didn't they have lucid? Or raid essence? Is it the best essence?
Bloodmallet and wowhead say raid essence is best, for me sims say it's lucid dreams... Any ideas? Depends on secondaries?
red plaza
R3 blood wasn't time gated either like raid essence and to a lesser extent r3 lucid
fossil forge
I was going to wait and just use r3 CLF but r3 Blood is also BIS for outlaw in keys
and its still super good with assa so , gotta farm the honor lol
tropic ocean
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
sullen sphinx
Is there a blue punch card that isn’t really fucking annoying
sullen sphinx
Slowfall confirmed annoying as fuck but swimspeed sounds good. Thanks.
median harbor
1 or 2 eb for m+?
sudden ocean
3
jovial oriole
short newb question: do our bleed ticks scale with haste (= do more dps)? or why else would galecaller's boon be so high rated for single target dps?
jovial oriole
ok i think back in legion they didnt scale with haste
true nexus
No they did
I played boomkin and spriest and let me tell ya
well bleeds in particular idk if they have a specific thing about them but I don't think that's the case
jovial oriole
those are dots not bleeds alfredo
ok yeah thats what i thought, thanks for the help guys!
true nexus
"On the Battle for Azeroth Alpha, a large change to Feral Druids, Warriors and Rogues has been made -- Bleeds and Poisons now scale with Haste!"
You were right about that
marble elm
In legion haste was like the worst possible stat
dense cedar
I miss agonising poison
royal lantern
cus in legion your dots didnt tick faster/often with haste, and melee hits did 0 dmg
oh, and because of how ridicolous strong master poisoner/poison bomb was, mastery was simply the ultimate stat
290%+ mastery at the end ftw
hazy canyon
I miss WoD sub with ring and soul cap proc 😩
Having dot times change with multi strike was nice too
cosmic prism
i have 15% haste and 28% crit and crit in sockets / enchants is simming higher for me, is that normal? the high dmg logs i have seen on here all have full haste on gems n stuff
nimble tartan
I miss benthic
strange python
@cosmic prism Are you running CLF?
surreal totem
What’s clf?
dense cedar
Azerite Essence: Condensed Life-Force @surreal totem
dense cedar
what rank is it? @cosmic prism
dusky tinsel
CLF tends to sim higher if you have more haste than lucid with low haste, just my experience
At rank 3 though
cosmic prism
have lucid dreams and clf at 2
dusky tinsel
Ah then lucid will still be better
Worldvein will beat out clf as a minor in raid though, usually if your essences are only rank 2
wide hedge
clf is "only" strong at rank3.
cosmic prism
i just took worldvein off cos no one in my guild runs it lol
dusky tinsel
That is a problem, not worth it if they don't use it
If everyone uses it though it's a substantial gain until you get rank 3 CLF major and then just use lucid as your minor
sour sigil
I've just read the asssassination guide on ravenholdt are there more ressources available on how to maximize damage? Like energy management, maximizing envenom uptime etc?
Or are all these things actually +- 0dmg now?
neon sedge
does blighted tribe suck for assassination i thought SS and echo made it good?
dusky tinsel
I'm sure there are guides with more detail, biggest thing is pooling energy before TB windows to ensure you get 2+ envenoms in.
hollow stone
Pooling intelligently will be how you optimize. If you arent overcapping energy or cps, arent letting your bleeds fall, and using tb and vend on cd (intelligently), you arent losing any potential dps
dense cedar
Oh i remembered the stupid question i had
sour sigil
maximizing envenom uptime isn't meaningful min/max anymore?
iron vigil
How close are the LW 440 boots and the benthic boots with a socket in dps
hollow stone
It will come naturally with proper pooling
cloud lichen
guys on the guide haste seems like main stat, but when i sim now that i have 15%, it tells me to go for crit
is it normal?
sour sigil
are you sure you are simming patchwerk?
hollow stone
Yes. That is normal. Crit is good. Trust the sim
dense cedar
When the crit portion of razor coral has happened in the 2nd Vendetta, do I want to be using the not crit portion off cd? (assuming im able to hit the target)
cloud lichen
yes, after 15% it says to go crit
dense cedar
I read the pin on it but my brain is too small
hollow stone
As soon as you lose the crit buff from coral, you should use again to restart your stacking
If thats what youre asking
dense cedar
ok
ye
that's what i've been doing
didn't know i i was big dumb by doing it or not
sour sigil
@hollow stone the way i've been doing it is that i pool use the elaborate planning windows for mutilates while tyring to minmax envenom uptime, in toxic plade i try to fit two envenoms back to back within elaborate planning window it seems to work pretty well but i'm not sure if thats the correct / best way?
hollow stone
So once youre just looking to optimize and have all the basics down, you want to then use ep to its full potential which is basically what you said; you want to mut/env within ep whenever possible and not clip it early. So dont env when you have 2sec left on ep (for example). But its worse to overcap cps or energy
Ideally, every mut you use is within an env buff (not actually possible for every single one) but thats the goal
Just to emphasize for others reading, this is to optimize. The basics are the most important thing
sour sigil
oh i was viewing it as maximizing envenom uptime vs getting another envenom into ep window but 99% of the time the evenom buff will just get extended by pandemic?
hollow stone
Yea. So the reason you start playing more around ep windows when optimizing is because by doing so, you naturally optimize env uptime too
Because env pands while ep does not
sour sigil
yeah i see now i didn't consider pandemic
thats nice my brain was getting knots because i had no idea how to figure out whats better but taking pandemic into consideration makes it obvious
hollow stone
👍
sour sigil
or rather with pandemic there isnt' even a question whats better
haughty locust
So, I'm actually having major issues right now, I'm like 429 with most of my bis gear, and yet im still not even pulling near to what I should be getting, anyone able to help me out a bit? :d
sour sigil
Is there any easy way to highlight overcapping / wasted cps in a log?
hollow stone
There is but idk how 😦
warped shoal
@sour sigil i think wowanalyzer has a tab for that
hollow stone
If you use wowanalyzer plz use it alongside your brain as it is not a perfect took
sour sigil
@haughty locust have you read the guide and been following the instructions ?
hollow stone
Tool*
sour sigil
also what do you consider "near to what i should be getting"
haughty locust
To be honest, no. I was consulting the Icyveins guide, but ill take a look at this one, thanks.
hollow stone
Nope. And wasnt saying that you were. Just expanding on your comment
warped shoal
yeah ok, maybe should be said that wowanalyzer is only good for something like overcapping and such
sour sigil
Yeah wowanalyer obviously isn't perfect can have some nice hints though and get a quick over view if somethign is going really really wrong
hollow stone
Yea. Its a good tool for indicators but dont take what it says as gospel, thats all
sour sigil
I can't believe I answered someones question by asking if they read the guide.
Good Day.
Thats probably your life apple LUL
indigo jolt
The benthic gloves we want are the ones that do the droplets of frost right?
haughty locust
I also have a guildie who's been helping me as well but it really hasn't been enough, lol
loud void
what is assasination bis trinket for mythic + ??
bronze kelp
If u are not raiding at all, dice is a good alternative
vestal wren
i think its reasonable to run lfr/normal to get the trinkets given their power lvl
even if you dont raid else
floral loom
what's the best way to use font and coral together? popping font 15 sec before vend and trying to get that 10 sec overlap of all 3?
upbeat hazel
is it a good idea to take crimson tempest or HB in a low level key, having only 1 EB?
true pelican
@floral loom refer to latest post in #tc-updates
floral loom
perfect, thanks!
haughty locust
Okay, so I've looked at the Ravenholdt guide, and I'm STILL having issues, I can't even maintain 25K on a training dummy, lol.
dense cedar
Do you have any logs we could look at? @haughty locust
woeful minnow
what's your sim dps? have you optmized your gear/gems/essences? do you have any logs?
fleet whale
using a training dummy to see how much dps you do isn't always the best idea. You likely won't have all the necessary buffs/debuffs with you to get maximum damage
use training dummies to work on rotation
haughty locust
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/guild/id/33892#date=1564639200000 I think this would work? I'm rhymes.
My sim DPS is like 33K.
dense cedar
ANy reason you always hold vendetta for so long? @haughty locust
haughty locust
Honestly, I try not to pop it to overcap on energy
woeful minnow
yeah on sivara you use it super late, on radiance it's also late and you even tb+vanish before the vendetta
check the opener in the guide and rework that
waxen vine
You need to do the standard opener regardless of capping energy
Mut rup mut garrote Condensed vendetta tb vanish env mut env
haughty locust
I don't have condensed
waxen cliff
Don’t be scared to hit a 4 cp envelope
waxen vine
what do you use?
waxen vine
Then do the same opener, but usually you press lucid with 7 secs of vendetta left
the second you can no longer press gcds you hit lucid
haughty locust
ok ty
waxen vine
pool and refresh bleed before you tb so you can get 3 envs off, at worst you get two. Its ok to tb at 5 cp
Understand your uptime on the boss, position well and know where you need to be in advance. Rupture adds and garrote if they will live long enough
haughty locust
so when tb is up should i just mut env then? or wait for 4 points then envenom?
rigid mango
You want to be getting 2-3 env in each tb window
true pelican
never envenom below 4cp
haughty locust
even with toxic blade up?
rigid mango
Yep
haughty locust
Alright ty for info everyone, ill try it out
honestly i didnt even know i was holding vendetta for that long
torn spoke
does it exist a site that explane benthic and what itlvl they scale up to in sertent itlvl. (like 385 of this peace is like 420 no benthic )
hollow junco
to get information like that that is accurate to YOUR character you will need to sim the difference
torn spoke
damn so many sims i wanted to avoid that
waxen vine
Run droptemizer, you can select socket and ilvl
fervent jasper
After your 1st 3 garrotes, how many ruptures will you put out before switching to use combo points on envenoms instead?
tall snow
Hey team how's it going? I asked about the razor coral last week and got kinda mixed replies. For raid bosses I know its best to activate always with vendetta but what about M+? Any consensus on this?
torn spoke
any punchcards that makes this bis ? [Pocket-Sized Computation Device]
@tall snow i think its the same unless u want to use it on trash
true thistle
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
torn spoke
thats the one u can buy when revered ? right
tall snow
Not sure how I got it.
torn spoke
ahh okay
strange python
Mmm I wonder if 430 Loaded Dice would do better against Cyclotronic Blast
I can't sim right now, I'm revered with it tomorrow
next ice
So with MA toxic blade before or after vanish?
rigid mango
After
Doing it before has RNG gain and loss, the sims also run after for that reason
peak saffron
after makes less sense to me, unless I've been doing the opener wrong.
mut, rupture, mut, garrote, vendetta, toxic blade, vanish, envenom, mut, then envenom if at 4 points, etc.
what's the rng gain and loss?
because with that opener, which I thought was the correct one, you're either at 5 point points, or you waste the toxic blade combo point because you're capped from mutilate rng
glass matrix
Wasn't the opener mut mut rupture garrote vendetta vanish toxic then the envenom mut rotation
Think it's all different depending azerite
next ice
Toxic blade 1CP is negligible
nimble tinsel
@peak saffron The rng is if you get that 4 cp Mut in the MA window or not, because the options would be TB > Van > Env > Mut > Env or Van > TB > Env > Mut. In the first situation, if you don't get 4 cp on the mut it would turn into TB > Van > Env > Mut > Mut, which I believe was determined a loss compared to the TB in MA window. The first Env regardless assumes 5 cp because you pooled appropriately going into it.
Regardless the range between all 3 is ultimately pretty minor.
peak saffron
right. just doesn't seem like a loss because it ends with the same amount of envenoms inside your MA window if RNG isn't nice to you. but im sure the number crunching has been done and it's too big brain for me