with the laser
#assassination
vital haven
timber meadow
font knocking you outta stealth is actually ridiculous
tall snow
@sour wasp @keen spruce but it says I have to use it first and then, after 20sec, use it again to gain the crit buff. How does this work with vendetta?
lost sentinel
after you pop it on your second vendetta you need to remember to apply it again after 20 sec
vital haven
that should be a wq
keen spruce
there hasn't been a single coral drop for my guild
so none of us are using it yet lol
lost sentinel
I got 415... sims better than cyclotronic
strange python
my monk dropped it, then I started to main a rogue 🤷
atomic crystal
It’s a catch up drink
lucid bolt
where do u get mechagon trinkets ?
atomic crystal
Trink
tall snow
ya was using a 420 cyclotronic till today. got a 430 coral simmed an impressive 1,7k dps boost
lucid bolt
i only have that one with the 3 punch cards
strange python
that's the one, just a different red card
lost sentinel
I got a 440 harlan's dice, I feel like I would have been really excited last season, but this season it wasn't a huge upgrade over cyclotronic 🤷
sour wasp
@tall snow well the way it works is that you first add a debuff and then you consume that debuff to gain a crit buff. So, you use it on pull (1st vendetta) adding the debuff, you consume the debuff for crit on 2nd vendetta and then 20 seconds later (trink cd) you add the debuff again, consume next vendetta etc
strange python
the one you get from being revered, from the vendor
lost sentinel
rep vendor
lucid bolt
or whats their name so i can wow head it
vital haven
all ther old trinketrs kinda feel lame now @lost sentinel i agree
timber meadow
is BOTE the play for assin in M+?
waxen vine
apl uses crit pots over fury? is fury still the best?
lucid bolt
doesnt the red punch card give a lot of stats ?
waxen vine
awesome ty
vital haven
you mean the yellow card @lucid bolt
sullen sphinx
I love cycloptic I’m going to miss having a big boy ranged ability when I have to trade it out
sour wasp
cycloptic
lucid bolt
ah thank you nairda
how to sim those cards?
because if i put it in wont my old card get broken ?
cosmic pier
strange python
what's the trinket rogues get from the ring/trinket craft in mechagon
or rather is it worth spending resources on it
cuz my trinkets are terrible amt
tender drift
How do you sim Punchcard w/ cyclotronic? I only get errors in SimC when I do it. Do I need to update SimC?
Nvm, had an ancient version.
Fixed.
verbal sparrow
Guys ?
When I have Master Assassin talent with this gear
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/drakthul/fielÿnn
I'm still wondering which opener is the best. - Garrote Mutilate Rupture | Garrote Mutilate Envenom / Stack to 5 cp and then Rupture
One guy in my guild says I always have to use that first option but I think I'm losing a little bit dmg when I have 80% crit chance still.
shy axle
are you using TB on cd only with 4 or 5cp so you cann follow up an evenom or are you just using it with whatever cp you have? At least 2 Env, best 3+ in the env window iirc?
hollow junco
i wouldn't use galvanized oscillators on mechagon trinkets. raid trinkets + cyclotronic are too good.
lucid bolt
guys should i spam buy this for a warforged or titanforged or socketed ring?
im currently using this
lucid bolt
hmm good point id better just be patient
i really dont enjoy mythics 😦
but yeah... i guess about 40% of what i do in this game i dont really enjoy
like warfronts ugh, or world quests and rep grinding
mossy ferry
you def. don't have to do warfronts
rigid mango
You don't have to do m+ either
ripe nimbus
What u talking about the heroic warfront right now gives 430
frozen karma
Just LFR 
lucid bolt
heroic warfronts are hard as hell
im at like a 50% win rate on those lol
guess it realy just depends on the group one time i joined a group with 0 healers lol
scarlet sequoia
Hard as hell seems like a bit of an exaggeration mate
lucid bolt
in comparison to normal warfronts id say its a huge difference
hollow junco
if you're in a pug when a chunk of your group is sub-400 ilvl sure
dmg numbers on things feel tuned to a similar level to a hard LFR / moderate normal raid encounter
royal lantern
warfronts are ''hard'' because most people in your group have absolutly 0 clue how too play the game in general, yet their own class
yes, on hc warfronts too
hollow junco
it's definitely possible to undergear it and it's definitely possible to fail by ignoring objectives, but i disagree with hard as hell, you should go with your guild
instead of with a pug
manic cairn
when to use born trinket of aszhara?
keen spruce
@shy axle there's a little min-maxing you can do with energy pooling
but you won't go wrong with just spamming it whenever it comes off CD
jolly fable
is it worth taking lucid major on hc za qul if i go delirium a lot?
royal lantern
not really, you overcap energy in delirium even without lucid
keen spruce
only take lucid if you don't have rank 3 BotE
and feel bad when you hero on pull and sit energy capped for 30 seconds
verbal sparrow
@manic cairn Try always when you have your burst/cd's about to use to get the most dps you can get
- it's charging 4 secs, so (well I don't believe pulltimers at all) so I'm always charging it like 5-6 secs before pull
keen spruce
6 seconds is pretty safe
so you can restealth and pot
I've lost pots trying to do it at 5
and lost stealth trying to do it at 4 
during a fight just dump all of your energy when your vendetta is about to come back up
or really just dump energy when your font is about to come back up
so you can channel right before vendetta comes off CD
and make sure there's no big boss movement or knockbacks during that 4 seconds
willow wasp
what traits for tyranical?
sturdy dust
rigid mango
3ttk 2 eb 1 ss or 2/2/2 all the way
covert mesa
blood of the enemy use on cooldown or delay 4 next vendetta ?
rigid mango
Pins
desert vault
no reason to take lucid dreams in M+ over focusing iris is there?
like on tyrannical weeks
strange python
!bis
rigid mango
It gives a good boost for 2 target and boss fights
You can also use with 3 ttk and ds, but I wouldn't recommend it
desert vault
maybe I will run lucid dreams a bit in M+ this week, see how it does
guess it depends on comp of course, how much AoE there is in general
gilded totem
are the old enchants still the best on weapons?
rigid mango
strange python
Hey guys i’m so new with assasination engineering head is good enough for this spec? Or there’s a better one ( sorry for english)
rigid mango
Seeing as how I normally phrase it a bit diff too, add a bit more
The engi helm is very good yes
but shocker incoming
Sim it
strange python
rigid mango
Yeah why man
Why would you want to know through letting a computer do the maths instead of asking a question you can answer yourself
vital haven
very good for sin @strange python not so much for outlaw
long bear
Hello what is the best way to get daggers 410+?
long bear
i got one 410 and one 400
rigid mango
m+
strange python
M+
long bear
oh yea but my overall ilvl is 409 😦
strange python
Or 1st boss raid
strange python
Normal mod de should be ez and 415
vital haven
weapon emissaries
rigid mango
It's real low
sour wasp
pretty low
long bear
oh its pretty low huh
rigid mango
^
long bear
hmm so i should grind pvp gear? and doing emission quest?
sour wasp
do everything
long bear
is the benthic upgrade worth it?
sour wasp
yes
cobalt pelican
basically everything is an upgrade for you in current content
long bear
on nazjatar
sour wasp
for weapons you can go for pvp weekly, nazjatar world bosses, emissaries
long bear
alright 😃
icy ember
godspeed 
buoyant coyote
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nqeyYuYuFDeDv8k2m9DGKW is this correct ?
sour wasp
Do i need BotE r3 for triple dd to overtake ss+sub?
buoyant coyote
that trinket sims higher then 450 trinket
sour wasp
he seems fairly low
buoyant coyote
yepp
sour wasp
i sim 37k and im 425
buoyant coyote
i sim 44k at 429 on my hunter xD
i wish i had bigger itterations
not have to sim everything at one time
and simming azerite is a pain with 300k
polar cape
He have 1 benthic and 0 socket tough
eternal turtle
how to use ashvanes razor coral?
buoyant coyote
since benthic is op
eternal turtle
are you supposed to spam it on CD or build up stacks
buoyant coyote
Im not to sure on rogues how to use it
sand otter
ok so someting that really irks me
got a nice 340 warforged in my weekly chest, and it has massive vers on it
er 430*
cobalt pelican
vers is big ownage stat
sour wasp
@eternal turtle well the way it works is that you first add a debuff and then you consume that debuff to gain a crit buff. So, you use it on pull (1st vendetta) adding the debuff, you consume the debuff for crit on 2nd vendetta and then 20 seconds later (trink cd) you add the debuff again, consume on 3rd vendetta
eternal turtle
oke thnx
woeful minnow
are you asking acquisition or upgrade order?
desert vault
does benthic stuff work outside of Nazjatar? I basically have nothing for benthic, well no sockets at least
vocal kelp
In EP aswell
arctic walrus
"while in nazgatar or the eternal palace" 
rigid mango
long bear
has anyone done the shrine of storm dungeon quest?
dark crag
Did shrine a few mins ago
desert vault
I roll every day on the boots and every day I die a little more inside. I am 3 for 4 on getting sockets boots with mount speed increase so that enough to make me break something which is nice ...
iron heath
Can some 1 link the pin for coral?
opal oyster
Does RaidBots sims correctly Galecaller's Boon? I got one 455, and i have one ashvane 415 and one pocket size 415...RB does not suggests the 455, but it's a 600+ agi upgrade
keen spruce
agi is kind of wack
cobalt pelican
it's correct
keen spruce
and ashvane is big pog
cobalt pelican
galecallers blows bootyholes
dark crag
Galecallers is a trap, literally
red plaza
double on use hurts galecallers too
dark crag
Got 430 and no one in the group wanted it
opal oyster
oh, i see, ty
tacit plinth
I have a 415 galecallers witha socket and a haste/crit yellow card cyclonic
and the 445 socketed dice I got sim higher than cyclonic and not galecallers
keen spruce
galecallers is also more butts because haste lost some value with essences
tacit plinth
so idk if I should just feely craft and ditch the galecallers and go with dice or really get rid of cyclonic which seems bad
keen spruce
although I'm still stuck using lucid for now so haste is even worse for me atm
I got rid of cyclonic like week 2
430+s font of power and a 445 electromental pile of garbage in a jar
simmed higher
rigid mango
keen spruce
8 sockets 
tacit plinth
I'm actually not sure what else to change from here tbh besides finishing upgarding the benthics and replace gloves with the poens once i get them
rigid mango
ilvl in bfa 
royal lantern
yet there are groups that want 435+ people only 
opal oyster
For PvP should i focus in SS and TTK?
royal lantern
(the answer is yes btw)
opal oyster
Haha, sry, didn't notiuce a PvP channel
keen spruce
look I'm not asking people for SimC outputs when I'm pugging M+ 
arctic walrus
Your boy just got back to back 445 Pistoleer's 
cobalt pelican
dual wield pistols
arctic walrus
Now I can wear one on each shoulder 
quasi pewter
arctic walrus
Got a cloak again from mythic cache too
severe bough
@rigid mango in my defense
i am using 410-415 trinkets
and i dont even hace coral
like, coral is a 1k dps increase
keen spruce
how the fuck are people orange parsing on Behemoth
cobalt pelican
any font+plumage gamers?
severe bough
just a 430 coral
keen spruce
I feel like a potato on that fight
keen spruce
I know
keen spruce
I have orange bois on most bosses
arctic walrus
I need nonshit ashvane/orgo logs this week
arctic walrus
MA
keen spruce
dellerium?
cobalt pelican
at least the mythic zaqul logs aren't full of people playing echoing blades
keen spruce
my zaq parse is turbo ass
are you cloaking when you come out of dellerium?
to drop stacks
or cloaking to stay in longer
arctic walrus
It's probably different on heroic
cobalt pelican
you won't ever parse well on zaqul heroic anymore
arctic walrus
but on mythic I cloak to stay in longer
cobalt pelican
unless you want to do dumb shit
keen spruce
that's true
arctic walrus
I was in delirium realm for 42% of the fight
cobalt pelican
rank 1 boss damage is like rank 350
rigid mango
heroic logs
keen spruce
blueberry
rigid mango
keen spruce
I'm not posting my scuffed ass mythic kills from last week
keen spruce
we killed the fish with 4 people alive
and I was not one of them
and my healers made me use feint on radiance for explosions
flushing 40 energy down the drain every 20 seconds
rigid mango
feint on radiance
wat
Are they just like semi afk healing or
it's giga predicatble damage with nothinig else you take damage from
????
keen spruce
yes I'm aware
it's not even predicatable, it tells you with a bigass cast bar and loud sount
arctic walrus
Playing defensively 
keen spruce
we haven't even pulled ashvane, I don't get the luxury of relying on a crackshot team of gamers
frozen karma
Unless your cheat death is in cd be greedy SMOrc
marble elm
If you press feint you are a bitch
fallow cypress
It's worth it more than ever to save up residuum for 445 pieces cuz mythic raid gear is pretty bad right?
fallow cypress
yah, i got the heroic helm and normal chest...just thinking about scrapping 7k worth of azerite to get the residuum i need to roll on a 445 lol
keen spruce
the helm is pretty pog
I'm gonna roll for a helm in 2 weeks then probably save up for a specific
dark crag
Zaqul helm is very good
tropic ocean
@woeful minnow wait you actually playing pro raid?
fallow cypress
part of me just wants to gamble on heroic pieces lol
dark crag
Better gamble for goraks
tropic ocean
maybe cuz not everyone downs zaqul?🤔
scarlet sequoia
engineering head
cobalt pelican
and the 430 version is p ok
if you're not killing heroic zaqul you're probably not rolling 445s till kingdom come either
rough veldt
coming back to sin, is master sin the better talent than sub for raiding? and which is better for mythic +s
cobalt pelican
20 residuum a weak
frozen karma
gambling for head 
dark crag
Zaqul hc + chance of gorak is better than wasting on 445 hat
desert vault
isn't 445 engineering pretty close to 445 zaq or zaq quite a bit better?
cobalt pelican
not really close
tropic ocean
zaq better for sure
cobalt pelican
zaq 435 is pretty close to goggles dpeending on your np dependancy
desert vault
i doubt i'll get to mythic zaq, so will just get my 445 goggles prolly and be done with it
dark crag
"Free"
desert vault
I can't pvp, at all, the dummy normally gets the better of me I'm that good
I don't even try
scarlet sequoia
hell yeah
fallow cypress
i just gambled on 3 430 shoulders and i got the same piece 😭 and its shite
vocal kelp
why gamble on 3 430 instead of 1 445?
fallow cypress
that doesn't math
woeful minnow
using residuum on 430 pieces?
fallow cypress
i'd have to wait another week to gamble on the 445 >.<
vocal kelp
ooh its the rage gamble
tropic ocean
cuz 3x 430 > 1x 445
woeful minnow
now you have to wait even more
desert vault
I'm still stuck with a 400 head for m+ 😦
tropic ocean
🤷
vocal kelp
been there done that
waxen vine
Can someone explain why Vanish tb mut env is superior to Tb Vanish env mut env?
tropic ocean
how do you come up with taht?
waxen vine
yeah I feel like env mut env get more value
scarlet sequoia
mhm
tropic ocean
I do
waxen vine
Condensed life force on CD or pair with third vendetta?
keen spruce
scarlet sequoia
@waxen vine sim just uses it on cd
keen spruce
It's a minor increase to delay it if it won't cause you to miss a cast laster
tropic ocean
if I can use x(clf) with vendetta but y without i dont delay it
if I can use x(clf) with vendetta and only x(clf) without then I just save it
desert vault
there really isn't much as far as a good chest goes in EP huh?
rigid mango
Blackwater one is potential BiS 👀
keen spruce
the loyal chest is okay
desert vault
yeah about it, I need to get away from Subt, still running it cause I don't have much
desert vault
blackwater? 20 people running loyal to the end?
keen spruce
but simpler
you only need like 8 friends
for loyal to work
at max value
or something
I don't remember
rigid mango
It sims equal to cepha with I think 5 people running it in my sims?
keen spruce
I'm at work
desert vault
oh crap, I do have Ceph, but 420
which I guess is still good enough if I can get Zaq head at least
i have gorak and ceph both at 420s
keen spruce
what are the traits on ceph?
rigid mango
dd ttk op
keen spruce
desert vault
DD + ttk
rigid mango
The only reason it's better than spymaster/mekka chest is because of op
desert vault
and eb + ttk for m+ 😃
edgy pawn
doesnt have op tho
keen spruce
op op
misty tusk
On ashvane, is it worth putting up ruptures on people getting bubbled?
night vale
I do to snipe energy regeneration
misty tusk
Getting asked why my bubble dmg so low
mystic vault
I ignored them because one time I put up a rupture and then the warrior inside used berserker rage
tilted hard
keen spruce
"I can't tank the boss on top of bubbles cuz I need to drop coral back here"
dark crag
There is a ttk np chest
night vale
Ha :p well I try and ignore them but if I’m low on energy, I drop a rupture on them to get full energy back 😃
novel hedge
dang , just got the boots with socket . sooo yall saying its worth downgrading 20 ilvls for them?
edgy pawn
was for me
novel hedge
aight , ill do it
desert vault
huh subt still beating MA with my crap gear 😃
should prolly get my neck to 55 at some point ...
honest heath
if i get pufferfish bracers with socket should I just keep that or keep rolling for frost bracers with socket?
rigid mango
They're worse on movement, equal on ST, superior on aoe
honest heath
hmm...
rigid mango
They're fine
honest heath
which is the best benthic piece to have? gloves or boots?
quiet crescent
does clf get buffed by hero?
rigid mango
yes, the attacks are hasted and so is the minors
@honest heath feet by a fair margin
honest heath
Thanks, ZIne
i had bad luck with boots so i started getting the other pieces...got belt and bracers...guess back to boot pearl farming it is
damn! finally lucky! got bracers socket + boot socket today
rigid mango
boots are the best, but worst to level up
hazy iron
Getting gorak tul's on your first 445 shoulder roll, feelsgambleman
honest heath
what do you mean worst to level up?
honest heath
worst as in lowest % to get the right effect + socket?
mystic vault
I think he means that the effect doesn't get stronger with ilvls
rigid mango
Like he said
honest heath
gotcha...forgot about the scaling...or lack there of
viscid compass
whats the bis for sin as far as helm, shoulders and chest go?
royal torrent
Zaq- gorak- ceph is the easy answer, but sim em all
drifting cloud
zaqul, goraks, behe chest/ceph
keen spruce
you get a loyal to the end off the behe chest
blightborne is good
but yeah DD and NP
dark crag
With clf crit sims highest for me and i still use 420 goraks
cinder relic
desert vault
3x ttk, 2x eb, 1x ss maybe?
muted maple
damn
desert vault
3x ttk and basically highest ilvl mix of ss/eb I'd guess
muted maple
my residuum purchase gave me mantle of fastidious machinations
this game just LOVES giving me twist the knife
muted maple
ah well thats good since thats what i mostly do
i dont have a nothing personal now though lol
muted maple
oh dope didnt know that
desert vault
at least I never use NP, but I guess if you were making some super group comp and just wanted pure ST, could be useful
spice surge
opal oyster
oh, ty
arctic walrus
Yet another rank 1 on sivara but everyone forgets to log the first boss 
civic palm
ok
hollow stone
Eleem lives and just in time to drop his catch phrase about az traits
rigid mango
🙏
sour wasp
i wanna get away from ss playstyle but currently it sims better than triple DD + MA for me
maybe that changes if i get bote or clf?
rigid mango
Changes with better azerite.
sour wasp
i see
cobalt pelican
what gear do you have with 3x dd for that to be the case
like gold-tasseled or some shit where you're forced into dd ss?
sour wasp
430 sivarra helm,430 behemoth chest and some randy ass 420 ttk dd shoulders
peak saffron
have you simmed the ttk gear with ma?
sour wasp
yup
peak saffron
weird that ss with subterfuge is simming higher for st
true nexus
Is deadly poison the thing to go for pve?
sour wasp
yup
peak saffron
yes
sour wasp
you can only do one
sour wasp
and the non lethal poison ofc
peak saffron
deadly + cripple for pve, wound + cripple for pvp
placid dawn
true nexus
Ah I see
woeful minnow
I feel bad for people losing the benthic lottery that bad
I have bis bracers/boots/belt on 2 characters and I really haven't spent that many pearls
rotund stream
=/ got bracers belt and gloves in less then 200 boots over 1000 still nothing
lost horizon
I feel you, had a similar issue but with wrists
Belts and boots were easy, hands not bad
Wrists were a nightmare
sour wasp
bis items from catch up mechanics, yay blizzard 
rotund stream
worst part is i have 3 of the 3 dps wrists with sockets and my mage ( old main ) has boots gloves wrists maybe 300 total spent
lost horizon
Im happy to have items with interesting effects, but it's weird af to get 440 socketed hands that aren't an upgrade in raid
restive inlet
so, undulating tides sim really high, but in real situations it wont perform to that level if we drop health a lot. Does anybody know if raidbots assumes a certain "uptime" on full HP?
woeful minnow
I'm pretty sure it sims with 0 damage taken
lost horizon
That's pretty low, and yeah undulating default sims with full uptime
I believe there's a way to adjust it, check #tc-research
empty badge
i dont know why my sim is so low....
lost horizon
Or maybe #tc-updates even
restive inlet
meh, thought I got an upgrade, but I guess not
scarlet sequoia
@empty badge low azerite and bad essences
sour wasp
@empty badge if crit is your best secondary, get deadly nav
scarlet sequoia
no but theyre not the best either
lost horizon
@empty badge get better azerite pretty much
empty badge
yeah but really i feel like i should be sitting around 41k
lost horizon
Wrists are very strong
Also is that the abberation belt? Im on mobile so it's weird to check
sour wasp
it is
lost horizon
I think it is, vim's will actually show up on sims
lost horizon
R3 and push lucid to minor (should try all the combos just in case)
sour wasp
better azerite, better essences, getting benthic gloves and wrists maybe
can amount to 2k
lost horizon
Harlan also isn't great compared to raid trinkets
subtle tundra
how do i use azshave trinket with another on use trinket?
empty badge
thank you guys
sour wasp
you prioritize the debuff application @subtle tundra
sour wasp
for instance, i make sure i have the debuff on the boss before using eg cyclotronic
debuff= the coral stacks
subtle tundra
i mean with lustrous or azshara trinket or uu'nat trinket
lost horizon
font/lurkers last 30 so you can pop em 10sec before vendetta
and use ashvane's after it comes off the 20 internal CD
cyclo you use outside of vendetta anyway like was mentioned
plumage, tbh no clue
can sim and check what APL does 🤷
but it probably sims very poorly alongside something like plumage
gleaming viper
i read pinned message for sotb on ST, am i understanding right if i cast like this : vendetta>tb>sotb>vanish>finisher ? ty !
fallow cypress
6th random heroic shoulder gamble i finally get gorak tul's! jfc
bold saffron
is font/coral simming properly? Or is there a custom apl posted somewhere?
rigid mango
The combination of the two?=
meager nebula
they sim correctly yes
meager nebula
no?
rigid mango
Nah talked about it in #tc-research
some APL limitation or smth
should be
anyways
rigid mango
Will be a pin soon TM
frozen karma
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
frozen karma
Anyone has WA for the envemom buff?
had one before but I don,t remember the name :/
civic palm
Yeah in the templates > _>"
mint fulcrum
You guys using subterfuge or master?
rigid mango
what sims the best
manic sparrow
SliceCommander still works very well for sin
cobalt pelican
if you can't make an envenom weakaura yourself you're a lost cause
civic palm
SliceMizerok 👌
frozen karma
I rather not waste the time if it exists and easy to share
cobalt pelican
it's literally faster to make one than find one
civic palm
Easier to learn to make one than to ever ask.
New ~> Templates ~> The Thing You Want ~> Buffs ~> Envenom
Wiggle that shit around until you're happy.
orjustusemineitsrightthere
https://media.wago.io/screenshots/HJUbINlV7/5d3662ddda912c6d2523f727.png
:3
mint fulcrum
Wat pre pot you guys using the crit one?
civic palm
UF for ST.
mint fulcrum
Ah ok
I been playing sub way to long
I actually feel like a noob playing sin again
hollow stone
Wtf is sub?
mint fulcrum
Is the opener still the same as in garrote mul, rupture, mul, mul vanish toxic blade then spam envenom?
hollow stone
Must mean the talent subterfuge
civic palm
Basically.
mint fulcrum
No I mean sub rogue spec
frozen karma
mint fulcrum
I'm being forced to play sin now though 😭
hollow stone
I was being sarcastic. But the answer you seek is it depends on MA or subt
So it ended up being kinda relevant
tall snow
GUYA! Noob rogue me again. Trying to figure out best way to use Ashvane's Razor Coral. It's simming as the best I have for M+. You guys here told me to macro it with Vendetta but... Vendetta is a 2min CD. Coral CD is 20s. Considering the 2 clicks to get the crit buff, it would be at most 40sec. All that said, why shouldn't I bind it to mutilate or garrote for doing M+? Actually, Why shouldn''t I do so for raid bosses?
GUYS*
cobalt pelican
for m+ you more or less do use it on cooldown if you're not trying to do the buff stacking thing
in raids you don't want low amounts of crit periodically and would rather have big crit during your damage cooldowns
celest mica
should i hold vendetta till Condensed is up?
sturdy python
Do people finish at 4 during TB when running Deeper?
cobalt pelican
never hold vendetta for life force unless you know the fight is like 3mins30sec exactly
and no you'd still finish at 5 or 6
if it's the difference between fitting 1 more envenom into the window i imagine you'd opt to 4envenom but only really in those circumstances
polar timber
when would you guys use focusing iris on st
kind bone
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/akS81Y5J3hPJV9YCe3uvv4 How is crucible simming higher than bote?
jolly agate
Is Gorak'Tul still BiS?
cobalt pelican
cause bote 2 isn't really an essence
lethal heart
Yes
cobalt pelican
and if you mean in a raid environment you wouldn't ever really use iris, if you mean like in a dungeon and you have it for trash but want to use it on the boss
just use it anytime outside vend/tb ideally at low energy
cobalt pelican
that sounds unlikely unless you really have nothing else
iris minor is p good so i can only really see it happening if you have 1 essence slot and lucid2/flame2 as the only alternatives
cobalt pelican
makes sense, same rules would apply in a raid really
on any fight where you can 2t it it's probably worth holding
polar timber
okay sounds good
cobalt pelican
unless it's like a stupid length of time holding
arctic walrus
@cobalt pelican 2 phased behemoth btw
cobalt pelican
dam
nice
guess my life is ruined on that boss for at least 2 more months rank wise
arctic walrus
idk when he transitions but we killed at 3:50
jade fjord
civic palm
Just click the button > _>
polar timber
by chance does blood of the enemy unlock on all my characters
edgy pawn
no
woeful minnow
I fucking wish
polar timber
really all of these should have been account wide
like once you got them you could buy them from a vendor and just send them to your alts
polar timber
idk if they realize how unfriendly they make their game for alts
and its like this every patch
drifting cloud
bote just has too high of an honor req
if it was like 20k total wouldnt be too bad
quasi pewter
shit like that should just be accountwide
quasi pewter
i can understand other essences that arent
cobalt pelican
but like when i actually
quasi pewter
but 50k honor
quasi pewter
i mean its an achievement even, just make it acc wide
drifting cloud
problem is everytime people dont like something, they just say it should be account wide
and its definetly not true 100%
drifting cloud
lucid is 2 weeks of dailies that take less than 10min a day
cobalt pelican
rank4 essences should all be character bound
quasi pewter
i did it on my shadow aswell
woeful minnow
if it's bound to an achievement it should be account wide
cobalt pelican
having to do menial shit like nazjatar dailies to have your alts be playable is yoikes
woeful minnow
prove me wrong
turbid zealot
on my opener should i aim for a 4+ combo point rupture or is it ok to go with a 3cp rupture this is with ms talented
wild stone
How do I open on Mythic Behemoth (with font)? Open on Behemoth and just swim to fish when its killed?
neon sedge
unbridled or focus resolve for single target
quasi pewter
unbridled
neon sedge
ty
distant lava
@wild stone I just mut mut rupture or mut rupt mut depending on cps, smack the fish till it dies then go ham on boss
faint quiver
Guys, the rotation for single target with master assasin talented is:
Open with mutilate < garrote < rupture < vendetta < vanish < toxic blade < mutilate < envenom?
distant lava
given that font lasts like 30 secs iirc, you can still fit your vendetta in it
the fish should die in less than 10 secs
young meteor
do you guys open on ashvane with vendetta/trinkets?
or do you hold until her carapace drops?
distant lava
depends on what your guild tells you to do
my guild has us holding 2 mins so probably holding it till it breaks
swift lodge
!trinket
arctic walrus
Yet again no helm off zaqul 
civic palm
marble elm
2 phase ashvane 
distant lava
mythic ?
marble elm
yep
distant lava
dayum
chilly marsh
toxic blade works with orgozoa trinket ?
marble elm
no
arctic walrus
@marble elm so 4 minute fight?
devout gazelle
You think guys worth to consume stacks from coral for the proc at ink trinket or just macro it with vendetta?
marble elm
5:06
pretty terrible for dps but 2 tank 3 heal
needed coral and i was the dk
got coral
with hole
arctic walrus
The legend
arctic walrus
7/8 reclear and only got pants and radiance shoulders
not bad tbh but still aint the best
I can't do outlaw on orgozoa anymore, easy assassination parse
stable plinth
i had both TBs in my 2 vendettas on ashvane parried
cause tanks were whipping boss around
and there was shit on the ground to dodge
untold current
Do we want to delay our 2nd life force for 3rd vend or pop when off cd?
muted maple
jeeze
stable plinth
depends
are you only gonna get 2 life forces on a fight?
does popping it on CD give you a 3rd
dark crag
It's a joke that radiance can parry
stone crescent
Is it more important that we clip an envenom into the 10% elaborate dmg window or have as much uptime on envenom as possible? Not sure how to play around those 2 buffs
sharp lily
CDL rank 3 simming like 800 dps lower than rank 3 lucid for me 😦
faint harness
i fucking hate radiance 
untold current
@stable plinth good question, not sure just asking for general rule im assuming if i only get 2 then pop the 2nd on cd, but if i can get 3 vend then try to line up with the 3rd?
I guess the other question is before or after vendetta?
balmy quest
before
nimble tartan
any cute sin rogues online 2nite
nimble tartan
😳
arctic walrus
nimble tartan
I hope everyone got some nice loot today 😃
cobalt pelican
n
honest needle
i dont understand the 2nd part of the trinket do we ever use it again to do the 2nd part of it ?
empty badge
I dont like using focused resolved opver unbridled fury it seems weird
empty badge
.-.
cobalt pelican
that's not what the sim says
honest needle
so do we use razor coral every 20 seconds or only do it once ?
cobalt pelican
you haven't added any pots to this
devout gazelle
Are we decide what pot is bis to use so? 😛
granite dust
anyone using Font?
sand granite
sharp lily
@devout gazelle Unbridled Fury @sand granite Yes
fathom echo
hi guys with the MA build do i always try keep my TB to to Vend > Vanish. TB > Envem even after opener
cobalt pelican
you use vanish with tb yes you don't delay tb at all
fathom echo
sometimes they dont like up exactly ill have vend and vanish ready but not TB
fathom echo
so i can vend on CD just wait to use vanish and tb tho
tiny granite
What minor are u guys liking in m+
fathom echo
when do you guys pop lucid after vend falls off?
split sluice
if you have the ashvane and azshara trinket, how do you use them together given the CD
split sluice
k so on pull - azshara, then into VD
sharp lily
Font on 6-5s left on prepul
split sluice
k cool tanks
round nimbus
so i am looking at essences and am really confused which is the best essence for the major slot?
sharp lily
Three best ones are Lucid, Condensed, and Blood of the Enemy
round nimbus
so i have lucid at rank 3 and the others at rank 1
gloomy slate
when is the best time to cast Azshara's Font?
split sluice
literally just asked 😄
sharp lily
@round nimbus Then use Lucid
gloomy slate
kk ty, so like 5-6 sec before pull
ornate meteor
Do you guys skip the first pufferfish in 2nd boss and just focus the boss? Then take the 2nd puffer if its down?
When using opener
willow wasp
new to rogue, made an alt, is crimson tempest not the way anymore?
cobalt pelican
they kinda suk
warm harbor
@desert vault they arent bad at all, especially this early into the patch where 445 azerite is still quite rare, they are better for outlaw in terms of m+ but a good heroic azerite piece for sin would be better
something with SS/TTK or EB/TTK
keen spruce
how does your opener work with font of power and razor coral?
cobalt pelican
nah dud blighted tribe gang are the real pumpers
keen spruce
do they share a CD?
cobalt pelican
get your ruinous bolt out
yea they do
font takes priority
coral gets applied late
keen spruce
still worth running both?
cobalt pelican
prolly
stable plinth
cobalt pelican
they're both nutso
stable plinth
@marble elm
warm harbor
yeah both are insane
marble elm
keen spruce
?
strange python
do we roll for helm?
sharp lily
You use Font 10s before VD and Coral with 10s left on VD @keen spruce
cobalt pelican
tbh there's no 100% ironed out use for them in conjunction i don't think
at least i've not seen any sims that have bothered adding conditions with conclusive results
in the sim it's currently handled as basically: apply at 20s or some shit and then use it in conjunction with your last full tb before the boss dies
if you're playing rockgolem and it's out of sync with vendetta it'd obviously work pretty nicely there probably, and potentially overlapping trinkets inside vendetta is best regardless
marble elm
Double on use is aids
cobalt pelican
if you just do the lazy let coral debuff sit till boss nearly ded it's pretty okay
if you do anything else might aswell just kill yourshelf
trying to juggle trinket procs hehehe
hope nothing hits me
nimble tartan
just press the button night
keen spruce
reactivating razorcoral gives you crit tho 
whatchu mean right before the boss dies
am I reading something wrong
cobalt pelican
when i say just before the boss dies
like obviously long enough to have the crit buff last full duration
cobalt pelican
pls note: this is one of several ways to use it
none of which are mathematically backed
full flame
Just got Azshara gloves. They seem pretty strong even with crappy stats. Any interesting interactions with abilities? Can the proc crit?
cobalt pelican
find a nice comfy place to use it towards the end of the fight
whether that's a tb, golemguy, aoe situation, random shitty lust timing
w/e
sour wraith
Cyclo (410) sims better than lurkers (425 gem), is that something expected?
Bloodmallet says lurkers should be better
lime temple
anyone know why people are holding using their coral till like 10 sec after second vendetta?
sour wraith
K, guess it's true then
keen spruce
sharp lily
@lime temple If they have double on use its so you get full VD uptime with Font and 10s of coral
fervent anvil
Brand new to sin, can we post logs here to possibly have them reviewed?
fallow otter
if you have someone with some time they will look for you
alternatively you can ask more specific questions
fervent anvil
Just getting pretty bad parses, but cant figure out my issue. threw them in wowanalyzer and wasnt much help
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fbtpJCq4Q9LNHrYP#fight=4&type=damage-done - Mainly looking at Lady Ashvane - Vesparrow, if someone has time
strange python
Cephohide jacket first roll and Gorak tul first roll Jesus christ
fervent anvil
Traits and essences are good I believe. stats could use some work, have too much vers. Have insanely high kill times which could be part of the issue, but im more worried that im screwing something up rotationally
fallow otter
@fervent anvil Undulating Tides is sim bait, can you replace? also bloodrite
strange python
visual quartz
2 rolls and 3 heroic raid, no loot yet this patch 😦
fervent anvil
Scent of Blood is the alternate on both pieces currently, im looking for double dose/Nothing Personal pieces right?
fallow otter
only need one NP but more NP is better than scent/undulating/bloodrite - but simming is the best which i assume you have done
until you get benthic boots and better traits i wouldnt stress about parses as its going to be very hard to compete without them
because your ilvl will be the same as people with these items
cobalt pelican
gearwise you just have lots of dead pieces really
visions of demise is ass
1 socket total in all of your gear
but in terms of gameplay
there's a lot to correct
opener on ashvane is (not irrdeemably, but still) wrong
you rarely seem to have any energy going into tb
so you have things like this happen
which just kinda sucks
foking bubbles is pretty bad, you used blood randomly to aoe them too it seems l ike
just delay your vanish 10 seconds here
it's not going to kill you
till your tb is ready
fervent anvil
so pool before tb is ready, pair vendetta/vanish with tb?
cobalt pelican
you can fire vendetta off just fine
pushing vanish back a few globals so the crit envenoms are inside tb is definitely worth
in terms of poooling it's like
not even really tb specific
you just seem to be smashing your keys down to 0 energy
as much as you can
keen spruce
So just to clear this up. opener with razor coral + font is the same as without razor coral. Just activate razor coral once it comes off the 20s CD?
then reac with one of your CD near the end of the fight
cobalt pelican
the opener doesn't change at all no
even if you're doing the 2 trinkets in vend overlap it won't change the opener at all
keen spruce
k so normal opener, then just apply razor coral whenever it's convenient
then reactivate with a CD near the end of the fight
marble elm
apply it as soon as it comes off cooldown
sharp lily
You dont even need to wait till the end of the fight
Just pair it with 2nd Vendetta 10s into it
cobalt pelican
you have to reapply it whenever you've consumed the crit buff
keen spruce
so what you were saying early nameless is that the jury is still out on when you're reactivating? IE smaller crit buffs throughout the fight vs large crit buff at the end of the fight?
cobalt pelican
more or less, yeah
currently the sim handles it with the larger crit buff towards the end of the fight and that is what will reflect in your report
whether more frequent use or not is better with 2x on use isn't really clear
keen spruce
i'll mess around with it, thanks for the help
fathom echo
can anyone have a look at my log see if theres anywhere i can improve
fallow otter
its a simple decision if the fight involves a dps check ofc
keen spruce
right
fathom echo
thorn fjord
might sound like a dumb question