bgs
#assassination
willow wasp
sullen pagoda
but coming to lets say ashvane progress with 0 benthic pieces just cuz is unfair towards guildies
neon sedge
@cold rampart comp stomp this week
cold rampart
comp stomp?
distant mist
.. but benthic is available for everyone ...
scarlet sequoia
if you dont have full benthic by now then youre either incredibly unlucky or slacking
neon sedge
pvp brawl
scarlet sequoia
very simple
sullen pagoda
yea
cold rampart
@neon sedge what is comp stomp
distant mist
thats just a poor excuse if they are blaming that... not even hard to farm
neon sedge
its a pvp brawl
cold rampart
spam brawls?
neon sedge
yeah
wary sun
its arathi basin vs AI only, not players. is that more efficient than mercenary normal BG spam tho?
neon sedge
its against AI so super easy and quick
hollow stone
Its terribly boring. But its efficient at least
cold rampart
when i kill AI do i get honor?
scarlet sequoia
no
restive smelt
It's basically farming the 10 honor per minute + winning the BG
neon sedge
i get about 320 per match
neon sedge
sure, do what you want
cold rampart
what do u suggest?
trail path
How many stacks should I remove Ashvane's Coral?
wary sun
I get 500~ + honor for winning an mercenary contract BG. but stomping the brawl is probably faster? not by much in any case
manic cairn
hey guys i need some help...i dont know my sims says that i should have 25k DPS without BUFFS...buty honestly i never hit that... i dont know why...I play with TB on a GS 428...is that weak?
neon sedge
brawl is insta queue
cold rampart
@trail path with vandetta
sour wasp
@manic cairn post a log and i'm sure people will help
but imo if you don't maintain 25k at 428 unbuffed on a dummy, you might have a big leak
marble elm
I’m more wondering how u sim for 25k at 428
manic cairn
dont know why
sour wasp
is bote major/ lucid minor your best combo right now?
echo cargo
I would use Lucid major Bote minor if bote is only rank 1
manic cairn
k
sour wasp
run a stat weight and optimize your gear and sim your best essence combo
trail path
@cold rampart Literally just save it exclusively for Vendetta windows?
rigid mango
what are u talking about?
marble elm
I’m on mobile with very limited iterations so I guessed with gems/enchants but here’s a start https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sBtV1TXGMvETzJPDdC4DdH
cold rampart
@trail path idk thats why i do
@rigid mango ashvane trinket
when to withdraw the stacks
bleak spoke
Check master assassin on that sim
bleak spoke
And crit force maybe
marble elm
I just left it at subt because not enough iterations and 2 ss
And guessed with enchants and gems
Because iterations
bleak spoke
Wait that doesn’t have 2 ss does it
marble elm
Does it not
bleak spoke
Shows 3 dd 1 sob 2 np
manic cairn
im confused xD
trail path
Thanks @rigid mango @cold rampart
cold rampart
np
lost tree
would you choose Puffer or Frost if you have the chance to choose?
got both with socket after 9 tries
median sand
don't tell me something like that...
rolled puffer after about 50 attempts. no frost, but going with what I have at this point
I'd say frost. Puffer pulls ahead on static aoe though
bleak spoke
Man no frost after 85-90ish rolls
Big sigh
Closest roll was the physical dam one with a socket but nothing else
sour wasp
benthic rng barely affects you
hollow junco
got puffer with socket after 225 pearls, no ori's yet. i do intend to keep rerolling for ori's now that i have the puffers at 420
lost tree
sorry 
hollow junco
not really interested in dumping 100 pearls into 400 > 425 on puffer bracers when oris are the better option
hopefully this pays off
lost tree
so you guys would defintly go with frost?
hollow junco
yes, it is objectively better for a typical eternal palace raid boss outside of a few specific cases
not by a lot though
oh, just to clarify @lost tree , for a question like that you should always always always sim the difference
tropic ocean
I went boots>frost bracer>belt>gloves
then physical belt for the non abberation bosses
hollow junco
general advice from randos in discord can be helpful but you should sim yourself
lost tree
yeah i simmed but only on 385 and theres Puffer a biut ahead
dont wanna reforge Azerite just to sim with Droptimizer 😄
lost tree
oh true 😄
marble elm
Make a paste of your raid gear 
tropic ocean
dont need droptimizer for azerite
zaqul helm - gorak tul shoulder - cephalohide chest
is bis
for raid
lost tree
the point is i am specced in Outlaw and i would need to reforge to create my paste for Assa Raid
tropic ocean
no
u paste ur shit in topgear
and u can select the traits
in spec u type "assassination"
and in topgear u can change traits howu want
lost tree
i will just paste in higher ilvl wrists i think its easier 😄
rigid mango
Why's that?
robust light
idk i thought NP was stronger
dawn root
Do you use Galecaller's boon on pull?
robust light
outlaw main spec
so crit is good
and i dont raid anymore so weps are scuffed. no m+ luck yet
robust light
ah urright iris minor is a bit better
bleak spoke
And probably check a full crit gem/enchant setup if it wants blightborne
Pretty sure flat crit has good synergy with twist the knife
robust light
yeah im gonna run a full sim later, the gem/enchant + axerite sims take forever
bleak spoke
Blightborne might still win out slightly but you kinda want 1 np cuz it feels nice probably
robust light
altho last i checked this was the best gem and enchant setupo
bleak spoke
Makes it so you never run into a weird energy situation where you might be tempted to press lucid in tb
Problem is that lucid is partly what makes crit so good
bleak spoke
Cuz you fill vendetta globals easily
lost tree
puffer sims higher so i will go with puff puff
bleak spoke
Man those shoulders are hot
brisk frost
Do we have guide/pins or something for optimal st azerite build/pieces to aim for?
i was just wondering do i want to aim for about same traits that was bis last tier, or do i want like 1x loyal (which sims hard as f with 4 allies) and mix the build around it
or something
rigid mango
zaq helm + goraks + cepha
is BiS
Well, blackwater/cepha actually, loyal is quite nuts
brisk frost
you cant say blackwater/cepha if im asking for optimal build ^^
i know theyre both very good pieces
lost tree
Blackwater IF enough people Play with Loyal otherwise Cepha 
brisk frost
no u didnt since there's variations, they're not equal
atomic willow
cmon man
rigid mango
That's the OPTIMAL build
atomic willow
haha
rigid mango
@brisk frost they literally sim equal to me
brisk frost
okay, thanks
gotta spam shoulders till i get goraks then, since i got blackwater already
rigid mango
That's pretty much it.
carmine valve
How many peeps need to play LOyal to end for it to cap?
sullen pagoda
4 i think it was
brisk frost
yes, 4 allies + you
carmine valve
And the die part, does it last thruout the encounter?
or as long as target is dead?
robust light
@bleak spoke yeah im having full crit gem and enchants sim highest even with 25% crit already
with a bbi
bleak spoke
Dank
brisk frost
@carmine valve its 15seconds buff
sullen pagoda
@robust light lol NP was simming 500 dps more than BBI for me few items ago but now https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/a7n6VwQ8Bq1nnLfyEvUjku
🤔
i just rechecked when i saw your sim
robust light
weird how it swings like that :p
brisk frost
did you have boots when NP was simming harder?
sullen pagoda
probably cuz i dont use blood 3 anymore
sullen pagoda
yea benthic gear adds up
brisk frost
+44k 432il here
sullen pagoda
yea i got the same one
i dont even wanna bother getting the aoe one for other bosses
opal oyster
@rigid mango hello, you said that "zaq helm + goraks + cepha" can you tell me please "zaq helm" full name? My WoW is not in english and i could'nt figure it out the name in my language xD
woeful minnow
rigid mango
Unluck
jaunty arrow
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
sick oyster
!benthic
solid nova
Pins
atomic saddle
you have 5 cp but 0 energy, garrote just expired and rupture is in the pandemic window, do you refresh garrote and overcap 1 cp to keep both up or do you just refresh rupture with 5 cp and take the 4-5 sec garrote downtime and apply it after using rupture to not overcap cp?
rigid mango
First.
atomic saddle
With MA talented and Guardian of Azeroth essence, do you open with Mut - Rupture - Mut - (MA expires) - Garrote - Vanish - TB - Envenom - Mut ... or do you just open with Garrote - Mut - Rupture - Mut - Vanish - TB - Envenom - Mut- ...?
fringe epoch
do the azshara gloves perform as well as they sim?
atomic saddle
The question is not when to use the essence, its about using Mut first and delaying the garrote cuz of the MA window
I heard you do it with BotE but I feel like its also stronger with Guardian
atomic saddle
Garrote feels like a waste of MA
rigid mango
Check the APL if you want
keen elk
@fringe epoch I have 420 benthic gloves with socket and 435 Azshara gloves and they sim 75-100 dps lower than the benthic for me as a frame of reference
So pretty good if you don’t have benthic with a socket I suppose but benthic+socket is still better by a good chunk
fringe epoch
yeah im still fishing for the gloves
keen elk
Probably your best gloves then I bet
dusky tinsel
they ever fix potion of focused resolve? does it still take you out of stealth?
fringe epoch
fixed them both pretty sure kashran
rigid mango
It's just bad now
dusky tinsel
so just use unbridled fury then?
sim apl still has focused resolve
so not sure if that messes with the crit values or not
rigid mango
Yes, fury all the way
atomic saddle
you use Mut and reach 4 cp, dropping to 0 energy, Rupture is in Pandemic window, do you use garrote outside of pandemic window to cap 5 cp and re-apply rupture or do you use one more Mut and then re-appyl Rupture or do you just re-apply Rupture with 4 cp ?
civic palm
Rupture doesn't scale its damage with Combo Points anymore, plan accordingly.
atomic saddle
so you just re-apply it whenever its about to fall off now minding the cp at all?
civic palm
You use your Finishers @ 4+CP.
fleet whale
wow, i just looked and saw how op rank 3 CLF is
civic palm
Eh it's not "OP".
atomic saddle
alright
fleet whale
it's still pretty strong
civic palm
Yeah but not OVERPOWERED.
atomic saddle
Do you prioritise keeping Rupture up over using one more Envenom with 5 cp during TB window? If not, how many seconds of Rupture downtime is it worth?
civic palm
0 seconds.
rigid mango
You've already asked this, havn't you
civic palm
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
atomic saddle
no I didnt
civic palm
Read the guide.
fleet whale
you have to pre-plan to not have to refresh rupture during TB
atomic saddle
The guide does not answer this question tho
Well, the guide tells me to not delay TB and to not re-apply Rupture befor pandemic window so it will happen sometimes
crisp hollow
the pins dont mention the benthic gloves, are they worth the effort at all?
crisp hollow
i got socketed belt so far
working on wrists
then gloves
boots last cuz already have 440 ones
atomic saddle
yea thats a basic part of the rotation, it doesn't mention how many seconds of Rupture downtime it is worth to get one more 5 cp envenom into your TB window
arctic walrus
Boots first dude
civic palm
Top to Bottom in terms of priority.
@atomic saddle That's because it's literally never worth letting Rupture or Garrote fall of the target.
fleet whale
have boots with no socket and that's it for the Benthic lottery for me. I don't raid at a high enough level to feel the motivation to play the lottery every single day
civic palm
Doing so demonstrates a critical failure to understand how the specialization operates.
atomic saddle
So using a 5 cp envenom when TB and Rupture are about to fall off is never worth it, you just re-apply rupture instead?
civic palm
You should be aiming for a 98%+ Uptime on Rupture, Garrote, and Deadly Poison.
Plan better.
This is the Planning and Preparation Specialization.
atomic saddle
At some point you are forced to make a decision or you either delay TB or refresh Rupture before pandemic. In the optimal scenario you dont want Rupture to fall off during your TB window but you dont want to delay TB either, so you will get to a point where TB is up and Rupture is about to expire.
civic palm
Plan better. Plan to never delay Toxic Blade.
Plan to never let Rupture or Garrote fall off the target.
Should also aim to get 2 Envenoms during each Toxic Blade duration.
atomic saddle
Thats what I just said but it will overlap. You will get to a point where TB comes up and Rupture is on like < 8 sec left so it will overlap and you have to re-apply rupture inside your TB or delay TB.
atomic saddle
So you re-apply rupture outside the Pandemic window?
fleet whale
delaying tb is a bigger deal than refreshing rupture
crisp hollow
yes
to my understanding rupture is pretty versatile in its application, not a huge deal to drop lower CP into it or overwrite a few seconds just for the uptime
versus big TB windows
atomic saddle
alright thx
fleet whale
TB is basically like C smash, you want to maximize it every time you use it
civic palm
The deal with Rupture is that every Rupture cast is a lost Envenom, you want to cast as few Ruptures as you can.
spice frost
Question about mythic radiance. Are you guys using vendetta on cd (I.e. on first add) or holding for boss? Killed it this morning and was holding vendetta for boss. Got a 93 so I’m assuming that’s what most people are doing
ripe nimbus
If ur reapplying rupture before pandemic ur wasting combo points and envenoms
rigid mango
better to do that than reapply rup in tb/delay tb
crisp hollow
its a smaller loss than delaying TB windows/letting it fall off/rupturing in TB
ripe nimbus
What u can do instead is reapply rupture with 2 or 3 CP at like 2 seconds
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
urban salmon
!essence
midnight flower
I play outlaw for radiance @spice frost most people do for mythic
civic palm
Just play SUB easy 100's 3head.
spice frost
We have enough people padding little adds with m+ beam that there’s no point in me doing that
civic palm
Fair.
midnight flower
The fight is pretty much the adds the boss is a joke
spice frost
Outlaw would be a dps loss for me in that fight
crisp hollow
yeah my guild's comp annihilates the adds too
spice frost
Every add spawns ave gets beamed it feels like
urban salmon
With DH Warrior and Frost Mage isn't Rogue just strictly more relevant as Assassination since it's the superior 1-2 target spec (outside of being nuts geared for outlaw from dungeons where outlaw is king)?
civic palm
OTL very much only serves as a sustained cleave spec.
Burst is better left to other classes/specs, just tunnel ST.
atomic saddle
When envenom is about to fall off and you have 5 cp, is it worth any seconds of rupture downtime to squeeze a last 5 cp envenom in or do you just refresh rupture?
civic palm
Unless it's EXTREME burst, where things are dead within Killing Spree.
What's the duration on Rupture? Manage your DoTs.
atomic saddle
If you play the usual opener with MA rupture and Vendetta time out about 1-2 seconds apart. So you need to make that decision
urban salmon
Sustained Rupture should be the highest priority after long cd's (Vendetta and Essence) since it's resource generating which translates to actions.
civic palm
Wanna know what happens when your bleeds fall off? Shit NRG regen leads to shit damage.
rigid mango
There's no exccpetions if shit isn't dying within seconds
rigid mango
untold current
Are people going worldvein? Is it effective for melee if everyone in your group has it? It sims higher for me but requires a whole revamp of gems/enchants
atomic saddle
after the usual opener vendetta and rupture are about to drop at the same time so you can either get a last 5 cp envenom into your vendetta or just refresh rupture before it falls off. No guide explains how many seconds of downtime it is worth to squeeze a last envenom into the vendetta window instead of refreshing ruptire before it falls off.
rigid mango
WV is insane if you can effectivly use it, yeah
urban salmon
Worldvein is a very powerful minor that is also very easy to get r3
buoyant kraken
so which essences are bis for assa ST right now?
rigid mango
sim yourself
civic palm
No guide is going to tell you to let Rupture fall off for another Envenom cast.
urban salmon
Life Essence or Lucid Dreams for Major. By the time you're neck 65 you should basically be Life Essence > Lucid > Worldvein
buoyant kraken
i dont want to spend several hours grinding bgs and not using bote after
civic palm
Just kill the mob no need to refresh dots 3head.
crisp hollow
i like how BOTE plays and will likely refuse to use anything but BOTE when i get r3
lucid minor r3 is my true love too
fleet whale
lucid is still my favorite major, along with Iris in AoE
urban salmon
BOTE defeats the purpose of being Assassination but I do love it on Outlaw in dungeons
civic palm
o _O
near python
?????????????????
solid nova
civic palm
RICHARD HALP
fleet whale
maybe he's talking about Mythic +?
atomic saddle
@civic palm Yea no guide is covering the little decisions, its all about general playstyle but I want to make the perfect decision in literally every scenario or im pretty unsatisfied, thats why I ask questions like that. Maybe someone did the math and knows the answer.
rigid mango
You do realise that half of your questions were answered by the guide
atomic saddle
No
urban salmon
With a crit pot BOTE is just a 2 Envenom dps window if you've pooled. Imo not even fun to use without crit pot. Just feelsbad
languid ore
I think the guide says to keep rupture up 100% of the time
crisp ledge
do people just use Condensed life force essence on CD as assa?
atomic saddle
None of my questions were answered by the guide because the guide is very general and my questions were very specific.
languid ore
I think the guide hasn't changed with wrath of the lich king.
fleet whale
i don't think anyone will use CDL until rank 3
languid ore
Keep rupture up 100%
crisp ledge
i have it rank 3
crisp hollow
in raid CLF is probably bis at all times when its r3
but its aoe is shit
tho huge burst windows ST
crisp ledge
yea but should you delay second usage for 1 min
fleet whale
you didn't even use rutpure in ICC
crisp ledge
to align with all CDs
urban salmon
Haste buff and st burst with no outside requirements (other than being rank 3) so it's basically common sense Assassination
rigid mango
if you wont lose a cast, ye
languid ore
@fleet whale you didn't use garrote
small island
got hyped for my 445 harlan with socket but it sims worse than 430 pocket 😦
atomic saddle
The guide doesnt tell me how many seconds of rupture downtime it is worth to get one more envenom into my vendetta window, the guide doesnt tell me if its worth to drop rupture for X seconds to get one more envenom into the TB window or how many seconds it is worth to delay TB to refresh rupture before its inside the pandemic window.
civic palm
The guide isn't going to play your character for you either.
buoyant coyote
atomic saddle
Exaclty, but all these questions need to be answered to get the most out of your character tbh.
civic palm
and you can get to those conclusions by playing the character.
marble elm
u just gotta use ur thinker
atomic saddle
Keeping bleeds up and using TB on CD doesnt make you a good assa player.
arctic walrus
These aren't daily occurrences anyway if you play optimally
civic palm
The mythical NO VANISH OPENER.
urban salmon
The best thing to do when you have complicated questions is parse it out on a dummy
civic palm
and keeping Bleeds up and mashing buttons through TB literally makes you a good player, just not great.
Though if you are basing your "good/great/etc." on parses, just playing well isn't going to get you where you want to be anyway.
atomic saddle
Yea but I dont want to play like average, I'm trying to max out whatever I can even if its a minor increase, I'm just interested in whatever I can improve, even if its not worth the effort.
civic palm
Then go play it, come through logs, find your errors.
comb^
The guide/s also don't talk about how you should handle encounter mechanics.
How you should prepare for raids.
What professions you should be.
atomic saddle
Logs dont tell me the math, I was asking for mathematical sweetspots and numbers that can only be answered by theorycrafters and I'm not one of them, sadly :x
civic palm
How you should be spending you Pearls.
cobalt pelican
number big good
civic palm
How many Rogues you should have in a group.
cobalt pelican
number small bad
untold current
@atomic saddle I think what you are looking for comes to - 1. You need to make sure you are doing everything in the guide optimally first. 2. If you are doing (1) then you will notice other similar geared rogues ahead of you and will have specific questions as to why. Thats when you ask them, or compare parses or come here. 3. Playing more of the optimal rotation you will notice lilttle things that improve your dps.
civic palm
How many split runs you should be doing.
How much benthic you should be aiming for.
Whether you should be playing Rogue AT ALL.
yadayadayadayadayadayadayada
marble elm
no meme u just have to use ur thinker
untold current
It comes down to playing your class more and you will pick up on these "little" things you are asking about
civic palm
Come to think of it, I've a perfect example for this fucking situation.
cobalt pelican
if you don't want to do math literally just read the apl and the restrictions that are placed on each spell/condition
civic palm
Mage Sims atm are wrong beyond reason.
Just looking at the charts, leads only to incorrect choices.
cobalt pelican
if you then think you have a slightly different opinion
civic palm
You have to be looking at how the spec is played in a practical setting.
Thankfully atm Rogues don't have issues like the Fire Mages do > _>
cobalt pelican
tbh your options are so limited each gcd as this spec
civic palm
and MOST of the guides match with how you should be playing.
cobalt pelican
it's like kinda hard to play bad
civic palm
Yeah just bleed things, keep your CDs down.
Stack whatever buffs you can.
Will be fine.
I do wish Rogues had something like Mages do atm... but... whatever
atomic saddle
Yea but I just feel like I need an answer everytime vendetta and rupture are about to fall off at the same second and I have 5 cp... do I squeeze a last envenom into the vendetta window or do I just refresh rupture? How may seconds of rupture downtime is the 5 cp envenom worth? It just makes me crazy to not know the exact answer to situations like that.
arctic walrus
You'll be here for days if you want all your "what if" questions answered
wide delta
can anyone explain to me why my Tricks macro aint working no more? lol
this is what I have
#showtooltip
/cast [@focus] Tricks of the Trade
civic palm
Because your target doesn't want to be Tricks'd.
wide delta
and also tanks as a focus
untold current
@wide delta tanks have the wrong blue card
civic palm
Literally the wrongest card.
untold current
the neuro silencer card they purchase from rustbolt guy
Just go ham even harder on pulls until they change it
wide delta
i almost smashed my keyboard cuz tricks macro didnt work
civic palm
ohmuhgawdwhycantiholdthreaaaaaaaat
wide delta
and i died to saurids in atal lol
wide delta
i mean the big one
rigid mango
Jumps are random, they still auto
wide delta
the screaming one
vapid scarab
That’s a bird
untold current
i honestly dont want to go WV. I like the huge crits bote gives me in MA
untold current
Also, does everyone have to have rank 3 for it to be worth?
upbeat maple
Guy's what essence combinations would you recommend for pure single target? I'm still unsure about everything.
untold current
sim yo self
cobalt pelican
what rank they are doesn't matter for you
uptime is what matters
and you'd need to log a relevant fight to find it
but for example even with 3 people having worldvein in the sim the uptime is >93%
which is not realistic in a raid
untold current
do u know what the buff is called? I dont see worldvein in our logs
cobalt pelican
lifeblood
keen elk
i can link a log where we experimented with it and it was okay, all dps using it on heroic shivara and it still wasnt incredible. like 86% iirc
untold current
please
strange python
i guess it's dependent on my own gear but which dungeon do you think is best to farm for loot
is there a certain dungeon that's way ahead
keen elk
actually it was 94% uptime for me
we tried in mythic pulls but uptime was like 50-60% but we suck lol
cobalt pelican
seems p ok till you consider that for a lot of these classes they are dropping much more reliable minors
untold current
hmm, yeah im thinking mythic prog might be a shit show with uptime
cobalt pelican
and the majority of people are <85% which is 10% lower than the sim has it at when you have 3 ppl with it cause it assumes they're all stood on your ass
seems much more realistic as a 3rd minor, for now i'd just hard avoid unless your guild really wants it for some reason
keen elk
yepper, we mostly agreed to ditch it after that test pull in heroic
tried on mythic yesterday but again, it was horrific lol
but we are also horrific which probably has alot to do with it
cobalt pelican
to some degree maybe but
the nature of the essence almost forces you to play the game wrong (outside very specific encounters)
it kinda works if you have a super melee heavy team but for most classes i've seen even if you can guarantee the uptime it's like
not that much better than just
having lucid/whatever minor for other classes
keen elk
yeah i agree
untold current
Does clf scale with vendetta ur do we just pop on CD?
untold current
So it does scale?
rigid mango
What, the damage?
it doesn't get the damage amp from vend
but getting the extra 5% dmg from the minor + the haste from major is good with vend
untold current
Ahhhhhh I see
strange python
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
spice frost
Has anyone theorycrafted using cyclotronic out of vanish instead of TB? My 2 envenoms normally combine to around 230-260k dmg during the crit dmg increase. My cyclotronic hits for about 200k is a couple ticks crit but most don’t. If I guarantee they all crit (30%+bote+ma is >100) and it gets the 25% increase from bote, theoretically that’s more dmg.
Obv I didn’t count the mut which may make head maths wrong, but I don’t generally pay attention to how big the mut hits for
rigid mango
MA doesn't give crit.
lost horizon
it's only for rogue abilities
rigid mango
It gives crit to rogue abilities, not crit.
stone crescent
BotE rank 3 in major even if its not synced with vendetta?
lost horizon
you hold bote for vendetta
stone crescent
seems strange, isnt that a waste?
just got rank 3 of it so i have no idea how to use it properly
rigid mango
pins
lost horizon
you'd hold for 30sec, which is 33% of bote CD
for vendetta (30% increase) and vanish
vanish is harder to quantify
but you can see how it stacks up
stone crescent
yeah makes sense
i guess holding it doesnt really matter if you dont waste 1 cd of it with boss fight duration
strange python
So, using rank 3 memory and rank 2 resonance as a minor until I get rank 3 condensed, thoughts?
lost horizon
and even if you lose a cast, if it stacks with enough damage increase that it otherwise wouldn't be it can still be worth
stone crescent
I was using lucid M and focusing iris m in raid, worked pretty well for me got orange parses
lost horizon
@strange python sim it out, seems fine though
strange python
Memory and Lucid combo? Major/Minor respectively?
I am, just trying to figrue it out. Only rank 3s I got is blood of the enemy and memory
Worldvein resonance is currently waiting for the mission to get done by Sunday.
Oh wow, that sims higher for me.
lost horizon
rank 3 BotE as major and Lucid as minor can be a good combo, sim your character with all the combos
strange python
Memory - Major, Resonance Minor. rank 3 and 2 respectively.
lost horizon
only way to get an accurate answer
strange python
kk, I'll try that next.
lost horizon
just use raidbots topgear
and select all the relevant essences, it'll try all the combos
hazy iron
I'm not a fan of world vein
our group insists on using it on Sivarra, it's not a dps increase
stone crescent
someone linked this yesterday https://imgur.com/2aEKbxu, is this the correct way to open with BotE 3 major?
cobalt pelican
n o
spice frost
The garrote comes after the 2nd mut. Otherwise you don’t guarantee the first env after vanish is a 5cp.
stone crescent
what should I change it to?
spice frost
And vend is after the garrote
cobalt pelican
assuming you were doing the correct opener without blood the only thing that changes is what fits into the vanish window
(and not pressing blood, obviously)
dark crag
M r m g vend tb bote vanish env
amber arrow
lost horizon
^mmr if you only get 3 cp from first mut
stone crescent
my old opener after vanish was tb-mut-env
so now tb goes before and delay using garrote
so is luhmis alright?
cobalt pelican
yes
spice frost
Yea. Do what luhmi said
It’s what I do
@lost horizon is it really worth to mmr if you only get 3? I’ve just been rupturing independent of 3 or 4 and refreshing rupture last minute after Tb
Normally forces another 2-3 cp rupture but that’s no biggie
stone crescent
Thanks guys, was always doing g m r vend vanish tb mut env before
lost horizon
yeah, 5cp rupture gets you full vendetta duration
stone crescent
so luhmis opener, but m m r instead if only 3 cp from first mut?
spice frost
But then you either need to crit you mut, crit your tb, or throw a dagger to get 5cp before he bote vanish.
lost horizon
yeah ,though i bote before TB, not sure what APL does
spice frost
If you don’t get 1 of those 2 crits I feel it isn’t worth
I’m probably wrong tho
Bote is after only at r3 I think
For the 25% inc during ma
cobalt pelican
the update post from the person who tested and added the change is only like 3p osts up in #tc-updates
lost horizon
bote before TB still gets you the 5sec 25% dmg buff within MA
@arctic walrus bote with vanish seems weird
cobalt pelican
how did you even manage that
pretty impressive
did you cancel vanish with autos
or did you just sit in vanish
waiting the gcd
lost horizon
@spice frost if you mut once, and it goes 3CP, just mut again and rupture w/5
lost horizon
if you go to 4 then just rup mut
strange python
@lost horizon - I would be lying if I knew how to work that.
spice frost
Follow on. The mut after rupture, I only get 2 cp. then gar Tb. Tb doesn’t crit so I’m at 4. Throw knife for the 5th before vanish? @lost horizon
lost horizon
check out #rules-and-guides there's a doc linked their for how to use raidbots
strange python
Top Gear requires at least two combinations. Make sure to select some additional items, enhancements, or talents
cobalt pelican
it's literally just a page you click on shit you have and it will test them all out in combination with each other
cobalt pelican
then spit out an armoryesque page
you can copy
doesn't work if you're using raidbots from the armory though so you need the simc addon ingame
(pls do)
lost horizon
@spice frost not sure i'm following, but don't throw knife
cobalt pelican
so the 1 gearset you're in is your 1combination
click on another azerite piece or something
then you have
2 combinations
wow
and then you click more
and the number grows
and then you click go
spice frost
If you mut mut rup, ma is over before the next mut and there’s a chance that mut doesn’t crit at all meaning 2 cps. Then garrote to 3. Vend then Tb, if Tb doesn’t crit you’re at 4 but ready for bote vanish. Do it at 4 or how do I get the 5th cp?
lost horizon
i'd just go at 4
cobalt pelican
mut mut rupt garrote vend tb mut bote vanish env mut env
there's like
the worlds tiniest chance
arctic walrus
All this time I've misread the pin and been bote inside MA window 
arctic walrus
Genuinly saying that i was using blood inside ma and was making a mistake
dark crag
Weakness disgusts me
buoyant kraken
does anyone have a good weakaura for lady ashvane trinket?
marble elm
@nimble tartan :
nimble tartan
😍
lusty narwhal
Join alliance mercenary to do bg wins
lose
go back to horde, lose
this farm sucks lmao
marble elm
sim slave 
arctic walrus
Ok Night too
I'm just gonna leave this discord you guys don't want me here I get it
@marble elm
we're famous
spice cloak
is there a place in raidbots to sim gear w/o benthic bonus?
drifting cloud
untick in nazjatar
spice cloak
oh there it is ty. so tiny
marble elm
@arctic walrus today was for court
didnt expect to kill it in like 10 pulls yesterday
vapid scarab
how do i prevent the stealth mobs in ToS from pulling me out of shroud
rotund oar
does vendetta increase damage of trinkets?
vapid scarab
no
strange python
@vapid scarab you mean the ones in that big pack during first shroud? I just distract them and stop at a certain point in the doorway. You'll be able to see the stealthed guy and sap him then all run through him
rigid mango
do you mean the first shroud?
vapid scarab
yes
rigid mango
After killing first pack?
I don't know how anyone has issue with that 
Just walk up slowly and sap
no distracting no nothing needed
rigid mango
You can sap the one patrolling the 1st boss room too
since the little krolusk walking around is where he's at
so u just distract and sap
I mean doing that skip there's nothing interestin gwith it
You just walk up until you see them an sap
strange python
If you just yeet it right next to the wall really fast they hit you out of stealth because you wont have los to the guy as you come around the corner
Alternatively you can just mash whatever sap macro you use for pvp and it will get the stealth boi before he gets you
deft magnet
the stealth mob at the start of ToS is always on the left side, so you can go between it and the non stealth mobs without an issue
and then sap it or w/e
rigid mango
Ye, first one on right, second on left
You just hug walls, only thing i'm scared of are pets
who fuck up skips every now and then
strange python
what do you think guys at blood enemy lvl 2 vs iris lvl 3,when i should pick one and other?what do you think about them. m+
Trying to do PVP island win, but no friends #feelsbadman
latent gazelle
i know the bis benthic bracers are the frost dmg ones with a socket, but Are Neri's wavebreakers w/ a socket any good?
steel summit
quasi pewter
you should sim them, im not sure
latent gazelle
yeah should of done that first lol
strange python
So, question - I adjusted my stats and have got decent/better numbers for lots of burst, just don't feel (And according to logs for my ilevel) I'm not where I should be. Parse blue and purple but for my ilevel I'm in grey. Could it be my azerite gear/traits at this point? 30 crit, 16 haste, 39 mastery.
Please don't tell me to sim myself because I have, raids aren't sims.
steel summit
do you have logs?
quasi pewter
how are we supposed to help u about logs if you dont post them 😒
strange python
@strange python it might just be you have relatively inflated ilvl but suboptimal pieces. Someone with bis trinkets and giga benthic with holes everywhere will do a lot more dmg than someone with bad pieces and 15 more ilvl
quasi pewter
if you followed your top gear for ur stats / gear then thats usually what you should use
strange python
But you should post logs
rigid mango
ilvl logs are scuffed thanks to benthic
quasi pewter
no benthic, no sockets etc could be it
rigid mango
both, aye
quasi pewter
or shit azerite and essences
steel summit
sockets adding ilevel would help with logs XD
quasi pewter
or even no new raid trinkets
strange python
Alright, @strange python - That is what I figured. Should I spend the manapearls?
All logs are attached there.
strange python
Benthic is pretty big so yeah i would
strange python
Hmm
steel summit
Low Garrote/rupture uptime. :/
arctic walrus
you Have bis azerite but you took the worst traits
quasi pewter
wait you namechanged right or am i on the wrong rogue here
rigid mango
I assume something weird happened on pull, dc'd/afk?
cyan wren
What’s up with this new trait that’s not in bloodmallet the new mastery one but sims bis
rigid mango
It's a bait
quasi pewter
you need allies with the same trait for it to be good
rigid mango
You go under 50% once and it deals no dmg for 45s
strange python
Alot of times, I pre-pot and just go in.
quasi pewter
he means loyal
strange python
Yeah, I named changed - twice.
cyan wren
Loyal ya srry lol
rigid mango
if you have 4 others with it
cyan wren
I got two traits of it
strange python
quasi pewter
its really good yea and it doesnt even take into account that you get stats if someone with it dies
cyan wren
Hey if I link my logs u guys mind going thru it I just switched from outlaw and last tier was orange parsing trying to get to that with ass
rigid mango
Gof or it
strange python
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tmrayWkHXhGFqA73#fight=1&type=damage-done - Just a few minutes ago.
rigid mango
You reapply bleeds too often in TB @strange python
strange python
So, should I go back to using a 400 Galecallers?
steel summit
Spark, do you have Rustbolt revered>?
strange python
I do.
quasi pewter
i mean ur opener is just very wrong unless you were lagging or idk
rigid mango
like
steel summit
That'll prob sim higher than any cannonball runner.
rigid mango
Yeah that's what I'm saying
strange python
Could be, my Internet isn't the best.
cyan wren
Btw best discord help ever better than outlaw
strange python
What will?
rigid mango
You're reapplying bleeds during tb
all the time
you're missing out on a lot of env damage.
steel summit
Cyclotronic Blast
rigid mango
So far I think every tb has had bleed refreshes in them 
steel summit
Sim it and see, but it'll probably be best.
rigid mango
http://prntscr.com/okn60z popped lucid and then dodged for ages
strange python
before I envenom
quasi pewter
looks like ur not very comfortable with the spec in general
steel summit
vanish into garrote :/
quasi pewter
you should read the guide in pins and then practice
rigid mango
Yeah
quasi pewter
ALOT
rigid mango
I don't see a single tb window
wher eyou didn't garrote +- rupture
which is A LOT of damage lost
throughout 6 min
strange python
tb?
fierce haven
toxic blade
cobalt gyro
refresh early so you go into TB with at least 12 seconds of each
then you'll never need to re-apply during
strange python
Yah, I did an analyzer and it says I'm wasting my TB. I tried to talk to the guys over at HeroRotation and they said it was under the recommended according to my analyzer.
Is it just, the rotation addon? Maybe?
cyan wren
Should you hold tb if you don’t have 12 secs left on ur bleeds and reapply then use tb
rigid mango
I'd recommending using neither 😄
steel summit
analyzer bugs hardcore
cobalt gyro
TB on cooldown
rigid mango
@cyan wren your opener is a bit wrong
cobalt gyro
exception is if you know there's a mechanic that'll prevent you from using it
cyan wren
Ya I figured
cobalt gyro
or maximizing it
strange python
So, don't use a rotation addon?
rigid mango
g mut rup CLF vend vanish tb and so on
steel summit
Working as intended. WowAnalyzer
cyan wren
Kk
cyan wren
That actually helps cuzz I just hold it for no reason cuzz I’m over energy
strange python
lemme just grab that galecallers and cb trinket
If the rotation addon is telling you to do what you are doing, stop using it @strange python
wish I had another card.
strange python
Ok
cyan wren
Ya soon as u said that to spark I was like oh shit lol
strange python
X_X
zenith gust
wtf is that picture @zine 
cyan wren
Ya I think I just went full dumbass
rigid mango
Mate don't u comment on my pictures
strange python
Ok, ok. I get it. I need some work. lol
rigid mango
They're a work of art.
strange python
Scuffed openers, reapplying in tb window all the time
zenith gust
whats the meaning? exhausted of answering to many questions? xD
rigid mango
cyan wren
What is clf srry
rigid mango
Condensed life force
cyan wren
Kk
cyan wren
What is that graph explaining
cyan wren
Ohh kk ty
rigid mango
You pressed TB, and iwthin the window you still used bleeds
both of you two have good TB usage though
strange python
2 first things to work on are opener and making sure you dont have to reapply bleeds during tb. That should increase your dmg a fair chunk @strange python
rigid mango
You cast 2 poison knifes on behemoth
Which, unless you're energy capped is a big bad
Aslong as you're not capped, you're not losing damage from not doing anything
cyan wren
Oh
cyan wren
Ooofff
cyan wren
I see I used cb in tb window
rigid mango
cb?
cyan wren
The blast trink if I was reading that graph correctly
rigid mango
http://prntscr.com/okn8di would recommend to save cyclo/step for this
You didn't pair vend and vanish, again
cyan wren
Those should always be paired?
rigid mango
http://prntscr.com/okn8iq nononnonoonononononnononon
yes, they should
I mean you obviously have the fundamentals down that's for sure
refine cd usage and you'll be flying.
cyan wren
Now should I save van and ven till tb is up
cyan wren
Kk makes sense
cyan wren
Ooo kk
sand otter
thinking about coming back to Sin gents
not having as much fun with outlaw as i had hoped
;.;
rigid mango
I like what you're saying.
sand otter
we dont do Mythic raiding but i jsut want to be vaible in M+_ too
i NEVEr get invited unless im outlaw
rigid mango
People don't know anything 
sand otter
i understand but IO score is all people care about
steel summit
Tell them you're outlaw, swap before it starts. Top dps, profit.
rigid mango
Yeah so get io score and ignore spec
I had no issues last season, nor have I had this one either 😄
sand otter
how is sin in Aoe situations
i palyed it in uldir and Bod and was always top 3 or 4 dps on single target
rigid mango
m+ damage, very good
sand otter
just a simple repsec from most talents, or am i looking at 2 sets of gear
rigid mango
You respec 1 talent and everything you're wearing
Different stat prios, entirely diff azerite
sand otter
also is there an admin that can remove my sub rank, i accidently clicked on it
sand otter
weird i tried thjat
distant lava
@rigid mango was that a behemoth tb before he goes ?
rigid mango
But why
sand otter
well im all outlaw now so im afraid my gear will suck
and i only ahve 390 daggers from Bod herioc
distant lava
just the raw dmg of it
rigid mango
Why not just reappluy bleeds
sand otter
ill have to pray something drops tueesday in raid on sin
rigid mango
I mean if u have bleeds then it doesn't matter obv
rigid mango
but he didn't
so
I can look through ur logs too dj 
Yeah, sin is very gear dependant
So it tkaes a while to get somewhere I'm afraid
sand otter
welp, im going to change back
i want to be the top for once ona boss
beat out our monk and 2 warrirors
vapid scarab
how about
rigid mango
Then sin is your spec for sure
rigid mango
I mean ok let's put it like this
sand otter
sin for 12 years
distant lava
rigid mango
if you want to be on top of the meters
sand otter
well since Belfs came out
distant lava
when I don't delay TB for xy reason
rigid mango
Outlaw is better
distant lava
that's what I can fit in before he goes
rigid mango
because it can pad
sand otter
weird cuz law guys say sin is better lol
sand otter
im talking for single target
distant lava
rigid mango
pure ST? sin is better
sand otter
lets face it, Herioc raid only guild and none of the fights are cleave heavy
rigid mango
Doesn't have to be heavy
sand otter
we raid 2 day a week 2 hours a night and stop at AoTc
distant lava
just hit translate, do be a whiner about it being logged in french
steel summit
Sin is usually better at effective dmg. OL is better at "could have been killed by a demon hunter's ST rotation" dmg.
rigid mango
just needs enough to give wits stacks every now and then
sand otter
yeah tis what im running now
distant lava
yeah
rigid mango
Where's the step man
sand otter
well pray i get some new weapons soon
sand otter
and trinkets
rigid mango
save a gcd ish maybe?
sand otter
mine are garbage
distant lava
I feint so I don't run away and don't get flamed for it
but that was me being zealous as an apply
distant lava
that's before he goes iirc
rigid mango
Dj.
sand otter
but i honestly miss Sin
lean coral
do we just pop rank 3 rock boy on cd?
rigid mango
If you wont lose cast, you sync it with 3rd vend
rigid mango
I mean
there's nothing else but movement minmax on behemoth
You just need to save gcd's
Man you're really sucking your healers' dicks
distant lava
yeah I know, but in my head it goes " I could save 1 sec here , but maybe in 15 secs I need it more "
I end up never using it 
distant lava
pretty that's before he leaves again
distant lava
distant lava
good boi dj 
